Puck Soup - Penguin Panic

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

The boys welcome special guest Thomas Drance from The Athletic to chew on GM Jim Rutherford leaving the Penguins, fallout from the Pierre-Luc Dubois trade, crunched Central Division schedule, West playoff race and WTF with the Canucks. Plus, NWHL vs. Barstool, Baseball Hall of Fame and the best and worst of Wayne Gretzky. Sponsored by Brooklinen and MyBookie.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Woshensky of ESPN, World Wide Leader in Sports, Entertainment, and multiple channels that cover it. I'm Ryan Lambert from GameStop and also the new GM of the Pittsburgh Penguins. I'm Thomas Drance from the city of... What?

From the city of riots. I'm replacing Sean Gentilly. I ate him on a sandwich with French fries. And that's a different guy from a different show. But there's always, there's many Sean. Many shams. You're in puck soup. So Drance is filling in for Down Goes Brown this week.

Back and go. As you know, in order to have the podcast available in Canada, we have to fulfill that stupid broadcasting obligation. Right. And always have at least one member of the Caspi Canadian. It's funny. People might not know this, but the origin story of me and Jeff Merrick doing MvSW was they were talking to me

about hosting Hockey Night in Canada radio after he left, which in hindsight is hilarious. Could you imagine me do that fucking gig? You know, like talking about like chakutomy or whatever the fuck it is? So like, um, uh, so anyways, so I learned part of that of the discussion was, can we have Greg host this show? Because on this network, we have that Canadian talent obligation content thing. And it was the first time I'd ever learned of it.

I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? And they're like, yeah, we're like, we don't know if just have, we don't know if just having you on is the problem because you're an American. But if you're an American talking about Canadian things, I don't know. Maybe it fulfills the obligation. Just like, what the fuck is going on? The good news was you're not Canadian and you don't have any talent. So you were all set. Right.

It all worked out. Right. And also, most of my content is based around American pop culture. So none of it fit. And that's why we ended up doing a podcast together, which launched that podcast, which inevitably lost this podcast. It's like a coaching tree. It's like a GM tree, which brings to Jim Rutherford, who, of course, begot Bill Guerin, begot, Tommy Fitzgerald, begot, Jason Botterill, and begot this week's news that Jim Rutherford is stepping down from his GM gig with the Pittsburgh Penguin.

Shocking news, to say the least. Before we get into everybody's take on this, the rumors were flying around Fast and Furious. I don't know where we are with him now. I think, Ryan, you were saying as we were coming on the air, there's a rumor in Pittsburgh that he was trying to trade Chris LaTangue. I don't know if he was trying to trade him for Oscar Clefbaum, which was, you know, my suggestion on the most recent bonus episode,

the one-for-one trade episode. But so maybe it's that. I had somebody who knows, knows, what's his face, Rutherford a little bit, who suggests, suggested maybe it was the COVID thing kind of getting them down. I think that was probably born from Rob Rossi's story on the COVID thing kind of getting them down earlier this month. Hockey being the echo chamber that it is. I asked Rutherford about it. He's like, he's like, that way in the world is not the reason why I've decided to do this. I'm like, okay, that's cool.

So it's all mysterious and the timing is fucking crazy. And the most amazing part is that this usually is a situation if somebody's like, I've lost my smile, I don't want to be a GM anymore. They get kicked upstairs, but in this case, it's like, he kind of lammarillo did. He's like, I'm out of here. You know, I'm going to go do something else maybe and or retire, but if he doesn't say retire,

it probably means do something else eventually. Ryan, what was your take on Jimmy Rutherford's deputy? Yeah, I thought it was just a lost my smile kind of a thing because, you know, he's, what, 70, 72, something like that. 71 becoming 72. Split the difference, yeah. And, you know, it's like when Chris Chelyos played for the Thrashers for those five games, and Brett Hall was on the coyotes for a hot minute, where it's like, yeah, I went into the season.

I thought I wanted to do it. And then I was like, this sucks. I'm out of here. I mean, there's always that aspect of it. But you think, yeah, I legitimately think he just thought, you know what, fuck this. Respect if that was the case. I just can't imagine the gym walking away, though, right? Like, I wonder if, I wonder if there was, you know,

disagreement on an extension or something like that, and he just sort of, you know, threw his middle fingers up in the sky and played hardball by walking away, which would be a badass move. But that's sort of the type of thing that you can maybe see from Rutherford, right? Rutherford, as I recall, Rutherford, didn't when he leave Carolina, it was sort of odd, too, and kind of on his arms? I feel like that's right, yeah. You know?

It was not his term. He's kind of like an old school, like, this town's big enough for only one of us kind of guy. So, you know, I wonder if it was that. But look, the big winner, my big take on this is that the big winner of this is big Bill Guerin and Tom Fitzgerald, right? Because whenever the penguins get into a bind, it's always one of Rutherford's ex-Luttenants who like take on the Bugstad contract, right? Like, it's always Bill Guerr and Botterall, like the Shiri Rodriguez. deal like it's always his ex-lieutenants doing him a favor helping him off the schnide um so i'm sure bill garren came to the office in minnesota today at excel or whatever and was like few

yeah thank goodness right right he's no longer he's no longer in the in the uh in the in the life debt to jim rutherford that's a very good take yeah and meanwhile every penguins fan is like he couldn't have done this before the fucking mike mathes and trade i mean jesus I mean, here's the thing with Rutherford, right? Like, first of all, it's funny because essentially the GM they're going to be looking for is Jim Rutherford. Like, they're looking for somebody to come in. They believe they have a good team. They know there's something to miss about it.

They want somebody to come in and fix it in the short term. And if you remember when Rutherford was hired, it was incredible because he literally walked through the door. And it was the first time I'd ever heard a GM say this. He's like, I figure I'm just going to be here for two or three years. And you're just like, what? Like, don't you have a five-year plan? Don't you want to be king for life? He's like, ah, just two or three years and hand the reins over to somebody else.

And you're like, all right. And then, of course, three years later, he's on his second Stanley Cup. And he's just like, fuck all of you. I'm the king. I'm the emperor. Emperor Rutherford. And so, like, now they're looking for somebody to basically come in and do the short-term fix. Like, we know how old Sid is and we know how old Gino is.

And we know what this team looks like. And we need somebody to kind of figure out where the pieces fit and what to do. in order to make this a championship team again, which is exactly what Jim Rutherford was hired to do and did it quite successfully. You know, it's funny, when you started talking about Garen and Fitzgerald, I was thinking to myself how lucky they are that they have jobs because otherwise they would have been tasked probably with fixing this.

And instead, Billy Garron gets to be in Minnesota where his older players are going to eventually age out and then it'll be the team of Kirill Caprizzav. And then, you know, Fitzgerald's in Jersey where he's got fucking Jack Hughes and Nico Houcher to build her out. and instead of having to be in Pittsburgh and be like, you're the new guy, figure it out, figure out how to deage Yvgeny Malkin. Like, they get to kind of do their own things. And I'm, I texted a GM yesterday who said that this penguin's job is still very desirable, mainly because of the stability of the franchise.

Like, the big thing where a GM is like, am I going to get fucked by ownership? Yeah. And you're not going to get fucked by ownership in Pittsburgh. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So it still remains a very desirable job. But as far as, like, where you want to land with the chance for maximum success, like, you totally want the blank palette versus the paint step that's been on there for fucking 15 years, right?

Don't you? Yeah, it's tough because, you know, not only are all the, you know, the three good players on, like really good players on the team, you know, 33, 34, 35 years old in the next couple of years. but Malkin and Lattang are done, or their contracts are done after next season, not this current one. And it's like, when that happens, you're either going, well, I got to re-sign Evgeny Malk until he's 38, 40, or let him walk. And there goes one of the best players in franchise history. And then, like, how do I sell that to Sid, who's signed until he's like 37 or 38 as well? just a year or two younger.

And at that point, it's like, well, Sid's going to be probably well-pasted at that point. You know, two years from now, what we think of as being Sidney Crosby isn't going to be Sidney Crosby anymore. And what's the sell on that to ownership? Like, how are you not coming into this job going, well, I have this job for four years and then the team sucks and they fire me.

Right. You want to come into that job and be like, I have a job for four years. and then, you know, they ask out and then I get my blank palate. But I don't know, man. Drance, you're Mario Lemieux. Let's see you're Mario for a second. First of all, congratulations of being the greatest player of all time.

That's puck soup's canon. Six foot four and still in great shape, dressed to the nines, the most intimidating man in hockey. Very excited to be Mario Lemieux. Ryan and I have wandered through your laparentine wine cellar to find you and ask you this question. Who do you hire? Like, so amongst the candidates that have been bandied about by a number of people, myself included, obviously Botterill just signed to be an assistant GM in Seattle.

He's now got Buffalo experience under his belt. Everybody looking at Ron Hextall, I mean, probably from maximum hilarity of like fucking Magneto taking over the X-Men. And then, you know, Cheerle's names out there and a few others. And, I mean, let's not discount the fact that Pierre McGuire and Mary Lemieux are very tight. Mario, Mario, here, I'll do it in Pittsburgh accent. Mario, you know who you're going to hire, don't you? Oh, my goodness.

Well, I mean, just to do Pierre a favor as his good friend, Mario Lemieux, I'm at least going to interview him so that he can leak it to everybody. But the first thing I'm doing, again, since I'm Mario Lemieux, is I'm going to light a cigarette just to help me relieve my stress. And then, and then look, I mean, the thing that I like, if I'm the penguins, for all the issues that we've gone over, right, is the penguins have this weird way that they play hockey where, you know, they, they punt and hunt out of the defensive zone, right? Like, I don't even need defenders who can make a first pass. I just, I just send it across the red line and let my forwards kind of chase it. And because of that, I've been able to find guys like John Marino.

Like, is John Marino, John Marino in any other team? Because for the Penguins, he's a top pair guy. Any other team, I'm not sure he is. I'm not sure he's more than a four, right? And because of this, I can bring in and gamble on guys like Michael Matheson or whomever. And it works like half the time, right? Like some of the time it works, some of the time I get Eric Good Branson. So, so be it.

The fact, though, is that, you know, my player development group churns out Teddy Blugers and biz-fiz bits and we seem to do a really good job of that and and I don't need I don't need huge difference makers on the blue line so long as I've still got LaTang so I kind of like a lot of what I've got going and a lot of what Jim Rutherford has set up and I kind of just want to get someone in who maintains that continuity for the most part but I'm also not too concerned about changing direction considering, you know, some of the shit that my team's been through over the last, you know, eight months. And you think about this offseason in particular, right? There was...

Yeah. Karamanos fired, right? The Dale Tallon sort of movement rumors, whatever it was. I'm not exactly sure why it fizzled out, but it was thought to be a done deal, you know, among my league sources anyway, for a long, long time and then just didn't happen. You've got the Jared Scaldi thing, too, right? there's been a lot of like sort of old cheese smell coming from my club considering. And so, you know, honestly, the guy at the very top of my list, as I, you know, finish my cigarette, put it out in my ashtray and light another immediately, the guy who's at the top of my consideration list, honestly, if I'm Pittsburgh, would be Drury. Like, why not?

He's the winningest American player of all time. I think he's ready for another opportunity. This is an organization that needs just a little bit of a tweak. Like some fresh eyes are good, but I want someone experienced. And I want someone who gets what we're doing. And, you know, I don't think Drury is going to leave the East Coast for an opportunity. So I think his options are relatively limited. I think he's done a great job in New York.

I think a little retool. Like, he'd be my guy. Winningest American player, bring him on in. I think Chris Drury would be at the top of my consideration list as I finish. this cigarette, that's the conclusion I've made. And now I'm ready to go start interviewing folks. I guess the question becomes, would Sid

accept a GM who's not done the job before at this stage in his career? Fair enough. That's the real key. You have two people that basically are going to make this decision, right? You had Mario that's going to make the call ultimately. And then you have Sid.

And you have Sid saying, you know, that's why I don't completely dismissed as insane as it might sound the idea that like Pat Brasson could be the GM of the Penguins, right? Like like I know this guy is pretty good, you know, agent and stuff. You know, like there's a chance that Sid signs off on that and that Mario signs off on it too. You'd define somebody who both of them that they're going to like. Right.

And maybe maybe someone who hasn't sat in the big chair doesn't get that nodded from Sid. Yeah, I don't know the answer is. The real problem there is that if you do go with someone who has GMing experience, you set them all earlier. It's cheerily. It's Hextal and it's Bauderil. And it's like, oh, all those guys, what's the thing they haven't? Oh, they're bad at that.

They're bad at being GM. So I really, like, I don't know like just as much as you sell, maybe you can't sell Sid on, it should be an AGM. I don't know how you go. Sid, you're going to love this. We're going to get the guy

who drafted Connor McDavid. How does that sound? And it's like, what else do you do? again. Oh, right, right, right. He was terrible. He's the guy who squandered Connor McDavid. Yeah, that's exactly right. So, like, I don't know how that's a selling point either, honestly. Someone's going to take the job, right? But, like, here's the issue. When Rutherford took over the job, he took over the job after they had lost in the second round of the playoffs of the Rangers in seven games. He took over a team that, granted, was five years removed from a cup, but also a team that had assets like, for example, you could trade James Neal and get Patrick Hornquist.

You could put together a deal to trade for Phil Kessel. This franchise is not in the best of shape. No, Chris Peters had him 31st in the prospect pool rankings back in September. Minnesota owns their first rounder this year in the Jason Zucker trade. That was a bad call. Yeah, exactly. So whoever takes over this team with the marching orders to turn this thing around as quickly as possible and build around Sid and Gino as quickly as possible.

Fuck, man, with what? Yeah, no, it's the other thing to say is when Rutherford took over the team, he had a 28-year-old of Gennie Malkin and a 26-year-old Sidney Cross, whatever the numbers were. They were like, you know, in their mid to late 20s and not 30-plus. And so the idea that you could build a new team around these core pieces and also Mark Andre Fleury, who, you know, let's be honest, the Penguins' goal difficulties have become very obvious in the last two, three years. And so I don't, you know, I don't know how you go.

And you know what, Tristan Jari is the guy we're going to build around. And the defense is whatever's left of Chris LaTang after next season and John Marino. And then a bunch of guys where it's like, oh, I get, I don't have, Brian Dumlin is an NHL player, huh? I'm kind of talking about what Dren said before. Like this team is very much built in the image of Jim Rutherford and what he likes to do. Like it's a speedy team. Sometimes I think in some cases speed over skill. It's clearly a defense built in the way that he likes to build his D out, which is kind of the same thing, Carolina.

It's like that challenge on Top Chef where somebody starts making the meal and then they tag in somebody and they have to kind of like finish the dish without changing the menu. Like, whoever takes over this team does not have the opportunity to mold it and shape it in their own image, which I think is a real bummer for them too. I don't know. It's a conundrum. If you're a Penguins fan, you know, you still have some hope. It's not a bad team. I think Rutherford's built himself an interesting little team. I don't know if it's championship quality at all, but it's going to be competitive.

I think it's shown that it can be a playoff team on some nights. But, you know, looking down, you know, down the line here, If you're a penguin's fan, maybe you pull your seats over your head a little bit and go back to bed. Speaking of beds, today's episode of Puck Soup is sponsored by Brooke Lennon. Brook Lennon folks, wait, watch. Oh, I didn't know we were switching to the fucking number system. I thought we were just doing letter grades. Okay, D, Greg, how's that sound?

Oh, fuck, fuck you. All right, go back to the six was better. Some mornings you wake up and you feel ready to pull the covers back over your head, like the Penguins fans and go back to sleep. No judgment, of course. but, you know, if you've got the most comfortable sheets available, it might be the reason why. Brooklyn and sheets are hardly endorsed on this podcast. I have them on my bed right now.

They're the softest, most comfortable sheets and pillowcases that I've ever had in my life. When I go to sleep at night, I am wafted off to slumberland in complete comfort. It is one of those deals where you look forward to going to sleep because the moment your head hits the pillow, you're done. This place is great. Variety of sheets, colors, patterns, materials to fill all your needs and tastes. Over 50,000 five-star reviews, which I believe Lambert was also the number

that Wonder Woman 1984 hit, 50,000 five-star reviews. Am I correcting that? That might be optimistic. Okay, I might be overshooting it. They're so confident that you will love their products that they offer a 365-day money-back guarantee, and they're much more than sheets.

They got comforters, pillows, towels, even loungeware, and much, much more. It's 2021. Jeez, worth my flying car. Do something nice for yourself and start the new year right. To help you that Brooklinen has a special offer, go to brooklyn.com. B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-N-E-N.com. Use the promo code Puck, isn't Puck Soup, to get $25 off when you spend $100 or more. Plus free shipping.

That's B-R-O-O-K-L-I-N-E-E-E-E-E-A. end.com. Enter the promo code Puck, P-U-C-K, and get $25 off when you spend $100 or more. Brooke Lennon, get yourself some betting people. You'll love it. We do the show on a Thursday. They're like 100 games tonight, so everything we're about to say, I'm sure, is going to be immaterial, but a quick spin around the league.

The Penguins, we should probably start over in the former Metro. They're, you know, middle-in-the-pack hanging on. Top four teams right now, Washington, Boston, Philly, Pittsburgh as we do the podcast. The devils have looked good on some nights and not so good on others. The big surprise here for me is the Rangers getting off the blocks as poorly as they have. And the bigger surprise might be the Capitals. Since the last time we did the show, they all got COVID, and then they all got hurt, and yet they, like, beat the Alters the other night with, like, Justin Schultz getting the game winning goal. This is a classic, like, Peter Lobby-Let's making

this team better on a fundamental subatomic level kind of win. What do you think of the east of far, Lambert? Yeah, I mean, the thing with the Rangers is it was always going to be dependent on whether they could get the goal tending, right? Like, if they had that, then they were going to be at least competitive, if not, you know, actually a legitimate playoff team. And they haven't gotten a fucking save all year. And part of that is the defense isn't particularly good, and David Quinn doesn't exactly have a wealth of good options. to choose from on that blue line. But at the same time, you know,

the Rangers probably weren't going to make the playoffs in that division anyway. So what does it matter if they're fifth or eighth or whatever they are? You know, I think at the end of the day, you're just like, sure, the Rangers aren't good. I think we expected that. Yeah, the other one, I think, is the Bruins are scoring goals now. And if that holds up, look at that. out, right? Like, that's, that was the big, that and the defense were the big question marks,

and they're, they're putting the puck in the net, so. There you go. Terrence, are you even watching the fucking East because you're in that Canadian division? That's been a big thing this week, like, like, Elliot Friedman apologizing for not paying attention to the rest of the league because the Canadian division is like crack rock. And all you do, all you want to do is just like hang out there. Are you paying attention to, like, the East? I am, but not the same way.

I usually do. You know, I will say I'm not watching the same volume of hockey involving American teams that I used to, or that I do all the time, but not this season, just because there's so much Canadian hockey that I got to watch and so many different Matthew, like so many different cities

in this country that are angry at Matthew Kachukch for something, that that's just soaking up a lot of my attention. Hmm, okay. That makes a lot of sense. And my one prediction before the season that has already become true is that Matthew Kachuk would make a bunch of really great new friends in his new division. It's definitely happening.

The Central. Oh, I think we talked about this briefly on the opponent's episode Lampert. Mike and Jason and Canada are friends, the Curitan bloggers, have come to start calling the Scotia West Division the Scosh, which I don't, I hear hasn't necessarily. been adopted. But can we, I mean, I, I would have absolutely no problem calling the Discover Central Division, the disco. Yeah, you tried this joke yesterday, too.

You shot that down. Yeah, you hated it. Yeah, it stinks. Anyway, in the disco, the Predators are first, and then Columbus is second. The Black Hawk says we all predicted are third, but they're only third because there are three teams in the division that only played three games so far. Dallas, team unity, herd immunity, Florida, and of course, Carolina are all dealing with a bunch of delays and postponed games. It's a real fucked up division.

And Lambert, you were talking about the fact that they're going to have to cram a lot of hockey in to a very short period of time in order to get their seasons done. And what does that mean for this division? Yeah, Chris Johnson tweeted out like the actual math behind it the other day, and I don't have the tweet in front of me now. but it was something along the lines of, you know, like Dallas, Tampa, Carolina, and Florida are, because they all,

they all had, like, games delayed or postponed or whatever you want to say, are all going to have to play, like, 50-plus games in about 100, 102 days, something like that.

And it's like, oh, those guys are going to get ground into dust. Like, I'm taking Tampa off my Stanley Cup pick board, because it's like, by the end of the season, all those guys are,

guys are going to have been playing a game every other day for like six months straight. We, we, uh, Drenz, we didn't talk about the, uh, Dubois lineate trade last week, because it happened, um, after we recorded, recorded as, as per usual. Um, I reiterate, like, the greatest after we recorded thing in the history of Puck Soup was the time that Loso and I did an entire podcast full of like, chuckles and dick jokes and references to, um, I. Ocean 11 and then two minutes after like we we got them recording and we're uploading the file Gordy Howe died and we're just like, uh, I'm like, do you have an extra 15 minutes to tack on the beginning of this episode because we really need to address this. But anyways, on a lighter

note, Dubois got traded. What was your take on the line of Dubois trade? Yeah, for me, I think it's a win for Columbus personally. And the reason is, is that they got Roslovick as well. Like, Lyonay is obviously a rarer type of piece than PLD, and they're both rare pieces. It's hard to get a number one center as young as PLD is. But, you know, the, like, LionA doesn't need to do a ton to round out his game. Like, he doesn't need to become a two-way force. He just needs to find one different way to score goals than being a lethal, natural distance shooter.

And he's going to be one of the best scoring wingers in this league. And in Roslovick, like, I look at the. that as a chance to pull a reverse William Carlson, right? This is Columbus's chance to get a guy who has that Golden Knights effect. A guy that, in my view, honestly, has the skill to be a genuine top six center. He was just never going to get that opportunity in Winnipeg. He will in Columbus. And I think he could be a totally different player than he was on his former team with the type of opportunity that he's clearly going to get in Columbus under Tortorella. So, Honestly, I think considering the situation they were in with PLD getting benched and not trying at all and forcing their hand, they get two pieces I really like, one of whom's directly comparable and the other of whom I think is far more valuable than the third round pick they paid.

I think they made by far the best of a bad situation. I kind of agree. I like this a lot for Columbus. I agree with Kekeleina that I actually think line is a bit of an underrated. playmaker, if not a line driver, you know, as far as his ability to do more than just score goals. And I think in this deal, they clearly got the player with the most, with the highest ceiling, too. Yes, absolutely.

And I think that's a real big thing. So let me put out the, give me a rating from one to ten, one being complete bullshit, it being, I kind of believe it, on reasons that Pierre-Luc Dubois left Columbus. Well, hold on. Can I just say the only, the only, like, concern I would have with, with saying Columbus, when's the trade in a walk? You know, like, is Patrick Klein is still a restrictive free agent? And what if he doesn't like playing for John Tortorella? Wouldn't be the first time that happened. And then you get, what, maybe two years of him? And he's like, okay, have a good one, goodbye.

Ah, you know what I mean? The knife cuts both ways, though. I mean, what if Pierre-Luc Dubois discovers that Winnipeg doesn't have any parks? No, I, but we're already saying Winnipeg hasn't, didn't win the trade, right? Right, right, okay. That's certainly, that's certainly true.

But like, the only reservation I have is if the trade ends up being, well, our coach pissed off, a number one center or a future number one center, a guy who's getting there, that kind of thing. And also, it doesn't even have to be that Lainé doesn't like playing for Toro Rale. He doesn't like the city. He wants to explore other options. Whatever it is, if you're trading Pierre-Luc Dubois for a year and a half, two years of Patrick Liney and Jack Roslavik, who couldn't get into Winnipeg's top six, then that maybe swings it back. But, yeah, I think on paper you definitely have to give it to Winnipeg or to Columbus right now that they won the trade.

All right. One to 10. One being bullshit, 10 being I kind of believe it. Here are the three theories on pure Luke DuBois leaving Columbus because he refuses to say why he did. Theory number one, he wanted a larger stage. Give me a one to 10 ranking on that theory, Lambert. seven Drance

I'll go six I don't You can't want a bigger stage and then be happy with Winnipeg And he seems to be happy with Winnipeg The answer is 10 because Everybody Ested his D during the playoffs and made him feel like Jonathan Taves And he wanted to be a superstar somewhere

Well the other thing to say about that is In terms of especially this year As we've just mentioned everybody's paying attention to every game in Canada, like it's Game 7 of the Stanley Cup. Right? Right. So, like, yeah, okay, it's the smallest market in the league. It's the smallest building in the league.

But, like, people are, like, he's going to be in a situation where he goes to any restaurant, post-COVID, obviously. You know, he's walking down the street in Winnipeg. And people are like, ah, it's Pierre-Luc DuPois, oh, my God. Whereas in Columbus, they only do that for, like, the backup linebacker for Ohio. State. Yeah, I was going to say, are you saying he'd rather be covered like a star in a market

than have to be like the third story behind who's the long snapper for Ohio States this year? That's exactly. I get it. That's exactly right. Yeah. Theory number two, John Totorella wore him down, forced him out. He doesn't want to play for torts.

One to ten. Eight and a half. Oh, oh, a fan, Felini. Or was that nine and a half is four? I'm going. No, wait, is it eight and a half? No, wait. because they made that stupid movie

that's like an adaptation of it. Well, they made 9 to 5, which wasn't Fellini. That was Deli Parton. Yeah. No, it's 8.5. You were right. You were right the first. Thank you. Yes. I made such a good. Oh, what a bergman. Was the Felina?

No, it is Fulini. Eight and a half. Federico. Fuck. I'm so good at jokes. Drans, uh, one to 10. Three. I think, I don't think Pelliers hate playing for Torterella as much as the reputation might indicate. I think I would

I would put it out of four and a half. do you think that if given the choice, you'd probably want to play for Paul Maurice and John Tortorella in theory. I do think that I do believe Dubois when he says that Torts his tough love made him a better player. And I also think, Drance, that, like, the Torderella reputation still remains intact from his earlier tour stops and from his occasional battles with the media, because I don't think he's the same coach internally that he had been in like New York or Vancouver. I think he's mellowed a little bit. Even all the old Canucks guys, like even Luongo, who he legitimately forced out, right?

Like he legitimately forced Luongo out with the Heritage Classic boondoggle. Oh, my God. Even Luongo still likes the guy. Like it's awkward, but he likes the guy. He's like, yeah, he was honest with me at least, you know? I mean, I don't know. The only thing I can say is, again, like, the only, I think that it was a situation where it was, I mean, this has been more widely reported now, but the original report, I think, was a French language CBC report that said Dubois was like, I don't know, I mean, I don't think you're going to be able to keep Werenski and Jones and, you know, all the other good players that, and like, I don't want to. end up being Rick Nash where I'm the only good player on the team because everybody else,

you know, uh, wanted out or whatever. And so I don't want to end up in that situation again. It already happened to me once, right? Okay. So let's put that. Okay. So concerns about the future of the franchise, one to ten. I, I think also in eight, but like what I'm, what I'm trying to get at here is so he said that then the, again, this is the CBC report, Torderella was pissed at him for, asking for a trade on that basis and like allegedly told his assistants not to talk to Dubois in in training camp and you know the second he messed up a play he got benched or got yelled at in the locker room or dressing room or whatever and so he was just like you know what fuck this I don't yeah like and I think I told I totally buy that that like you know it was the torturella

thing people I think it was Elliot said it was a reason not the reason. Well, I think you're, we're talking about two different things. Like, long-term prospects for staying, reason you want to get out, Tortoella, probably like a four. Yeah, okay, sure. Yes. Necessity for trade now, probably like a 15. Yeah, right.

Because it's like getting fucking benched and shit. Yeah. I mean, no, that's completely, completely understandable. Finally, we come to, Ryan, what I know is your favorite theory, which is that Dubois needed to get out of Columbus because the. The locker room was MAGA and then was traded to Winnipeg where a wokester Blake Wheeler runs the locker room. What do you say to that theory? Yeah, that's like a zero.

That is not written. It's the funniest by far. It's the funniest explanation. But there was just absolutely no way. Because this is the NHL. You're like, oh, trade me from the team with 10 MAGA guys to the team with seven. please. Like, you're not getting away from it. So I just, I just love that like, you know, fucking he walked in a locker room and like one American news networks on the TV and like fucking Seth Jones is in the corner reading no fucking Josh Hawley's Facebook page and he's just looking around. He's like, I gotta get out of here. I give that theory at two. I mean, because like you said, I want to believe it. But I don't think it's necessarily true. but I do love the

of like you know came walking into the Winnipeg locker room and like fucking Blake Wheeler puts his arm around him he's like welcome to the fold brother like passes him a fucking Tana Hossi Coats book

Yeah it gives him a notorious RV shirt RBJ Yeah fucking Spike Lee movies are on the TV in the locker room Like it's a whole thing

It's great All right So that's the Dubois trade Glad we broke it down in an intelligent way. We did not talk about the West vague.

It's the top three of the top three, Vegas, St. Louis, Colorado. The Vegas St. Louis game the other night was the most fun game outside of anything that's happened in the Canadian division this year. That game was fucking bonkers and fun of shit. Colorado is just starting to steamroll

people. The McKinnon line, as of this broadcast, by the way, has yet to give up a goal, I think, which is fucking, I mean, come on. Oh, boy. And then you got this scramble for that last spot that we all seeded to the wild. Gibson's, gipsoning the ducks. The kings are a little bit better than expected, and Copatari is playing incredibly well.

Which is why they're better than expected. He wasn't that. Right. And then you have San Jose. But he was better last year than he was the previous year. Sure. Then you have San Jose, who on some nights looks like a playoff team and on another late nights looks like they should be fucking relegated. It looks like the San Jose sharks.

Yeah. Yeah. And then you have Arizona who's doing exactly what Arizona should do, which is to be as bad as possible, probably beyond this season. Landry, your take on the West so far. Yeah, I think I think the big, the big, I don't think you should call it a surprise necessarily, but like the big thing that's making it interesting is that John Gibson's really like playing out of his mind right now. I don't think he keeps it up, but I've been saying this kind of a lot lately is like,

I'm way, I'm going to be way less going. It looks like they're just getting really lucky, though, you know, because it's a 56 game schedule. And if you're lucky for 10 games in a row or 10 out of 12 or whatever it is, you're in the playoffs. Like, that's just how it's going to work this year. And like, I think.

like I say, I don't think Gibson keeps it up, but like, as long as they keep banking points, what are you going to say really, you know? And yeah, Colorado is starting to look really good, but they have, you know, they have the same record as the Wilde do. And the same number of points as L.A. and Anaheim, but obviously different games played there and that kind of thing. Point being, like, yeah, it's almost certainly going to end up Vegas, St. Louis. Colorado in some order, but now I was pretty convinced Minnesota was going to be fairly comfortable, you know, getting into that fourth spot, and now I'm less convinced of that. That's the only difference. Gotcha. What about you, Trance? Do you believe in the Kings at all, or no? No, no.

I don't believe in any of the California teams. I like Minnesota. I think Minnesota is going to get. There. The thing that people ignore about Minnesota is everyone looks at the shiny new thing, obviously, in Kappersoff. But I like the Folino, sorry, Yoel, Erickson, like, they have this, the Greenway, like, the class of, you know, 25-year-old grinder. Right. They have. Like, those players are good.

They're just not, like, good enough to win you a playoff series. But they're good enough to be a pain in the ass against mediocre teams in the regular season. I think that's what's going to put Minnesota over the top. And also, as much as my focus has been intensely on the North Division, the scosh, as it were, Byram McCar is appointment viewing for me right now. Like, I can't turn that off. It's the best. They're tremendous.

And I'll watch it even though I have no idea what sort of, you know, marketing exec on an acid trip screwed up the Aves uniforms this season. But I still can't turn it off, despite the fact that the avalanche are like the coolest team on hockey that looks like shit. I think your McCar endorsement is only because Quinn's getting turnstiled this year. True or false? No, no, definitely false. I have not in any way changed my evaluation on those two players. Okay.

Yeah. All right, fair enough. Quinn's getting turnstiled for sure, but like, so's absolutely. everybody. Vancouver gave up three expected goals in a period to the Ottawa senators last night. I'm not I'm not sticking that on Hughes, man. It's bad. It turns out just signing a bunch of bad defensemen doesn't help your team. It's weird. Let's talk about Canada for a second. And since Francis here, we should probably focus on our sweet boys, the Canucks. I really think that in this, in this league, you have teams that have been able to get right into the step of the parade

and teams that maybe needed a little bit more prep time before the parade started, right? And fucking, like, without a preseason to sort of navigate through this re-tooled blue line, you know, to give the goalies a chance to kind of get into their group. Like, I think that, correctly if I'm wrong, I think the lack of a preseason hurt Vancouver maybe a little bit more than other teams, true or false. I think probably true, but I also, you know, other than like Nick Euler's being momentarily in the protocol and the Winnipeg Jets sort of spending a minute, you know, canceling practice. Like the Canucks have been the only team that was dramatically impacted by COVID protocols or by COVID-related absences. J.T. Miller.

And, yeah, J.T. Miller right off the hop. He still hasn't got right. We're now doing this thing in the Vancouver market where after the game, people ask J.T. Miller about his lines zone time. and he argues it. He'll be like, I don't care what the shots say. We spent a lot of time in the offensive zone this game. And then last night he scores two goals. The line takes over the game in the second period. And he's like, we didn't play that well. We just scored him into a couple empty nets.

We had no zone time. He's so mad all the time. But you know, it's interesting about the J.T. Miller thing. Like, obviously he had a pretty good game this week. But the same kind of shit's been whispered about Zabanajad. because Vantage ad was in the was I think in the COVID protocol and and the thought was he's not been right since he came back either. He's not had a very good start either. So I wonder if there's something to, I don't know, the recovery of these guys and maybe the disease having or the virus rather having a bit of a longer tail than people, you know, give a credit for.

Yeah, I think it's just not being on the ice with your line mates and not being on the ice in general. Like they talk all the time about there's a difference between being in shape and being in hockey shape and like, how does that affect you if you're not playing a full training camp and getting up to speed in exhibition games and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, I think that, let me put it this way. I think maybe the excuse of because J.T. Miller in particular had COVID, like the whole Knaut. Like, that's bullshit, obviously. But at the same time, like, look how bad Elias Patterson's been this year in terms of just about every metric you want to possibly look at, you know? and he's going to turn it around.

I think Quinn Hughes is going to turn it around, obviously. But I said it already. It's getting late already. We're an eighth of the way through the season for just about everybody or a seventh away in some cases. And it's like, well, you know what? If you had like eight bad games, you might be in a little fucking trouble all of a sudden.

Right. Here's the, here's the, like, there's some fine print on the COVID protocol that I don't think's getting talked enough, which is that if you are a, a positive or a presumed positive. And J.T. Miller was a close contact. So he wasn't actually presumed positive or positive. But if you're a presumed positive

or an in fact positive, it's not just you're not able to be on the ice. You're not able to exercise. Like no exercise. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's crazy. So I'm not shocked that anyone who's going into that protocol is coming out and looking a little bit rusty. Like you can't even do the Peloton thing.

And, you know, on the Kinnock's end, I mean, Like, the good thing from their perspective is at least Elias Pedersen had a good game last night against the senators. He dropped a, he had a drop pass on a breakaway. Considering all the pressure on him, he had a drop pass with a breakaway opportunity to Quinn Hughes that ended up in a J.T. Miller goal. And that takes the sort of stones that you're looking for from that kid, right? Right. But, but yeah, I mean, the turnovers, like, it's, I've never seen a team, honestly, manage the puck as badly as,

the Canucks have through eight games. This guy hasn't seen the early days of Paul Maurice and Winnipeg, I guess. But okay. Very seriously, though, the fact of the matter is this is how the Connucks season has gone 10 days into the season. They needed a serious sweep of the Ottawa senators to keep their playoff hopes alive. That's a dark timeline for this club. Such as the Canadian Division.

Before we move on, what is your take on the fire Benning Screens that were reading. I mean, I tend to believe that this guy has some hits and misses, but his misses are really significant, and he certainly put this team in a very disinventious financial position

with some of his signings from previous seasons. Where are you on Jim Benning? Yeah, I mean, I was out having like a puppy playdate with my buddy who's a financial planner, and he was just like, if the Canucks were a financial, portfolio, right? He was like, if they were a portfolio, you'd immediately fire your manager. I just had a good laugh at that. But look, the fact of the matter is that there's a lot to criticize Benning 4. The salary cap allocation during his tenure has been a disaster. Those chickens

came home to roost this offseason. But I struggle to understand how it makes sense to fire a GM seven days, seven games into a season when the incoming, like the incoming manager could do very little to upgrade the team anyway. And you're coming off an off season in which the franchise cut 20% of his player personnel budget. You know, like, the timing of it didn't make sense to me. And honestly, if the organization was seriously considering it, if there was something to all the rumblings, I think that would be a sign of intense, intense organizational dysfunction.

So, you know, I think you've got to let the chips fall where they may a little bit this season. And that said, you know, clearly this organization does have a big decision to make, probably a month out from the trade deadline, which is, is this the guy to finish the job? You know, because at the very least, what you got to say about Benning is with what he's drafted for the years of, you know, fitful pain. Like, this rebuild hasn't been smooth. There hasn't been like a grand plan exercised here. but for all of that, you know, over a five-year span, they clearly mined a fair bit of talent from the draft.

That's good. Is he the guy to finish the job? That's a question you have to ask yourself, but it's not one you have to ask yourself right now. That's like six weeks away. Right. Yeah. Apologies for saying J.T. Miller had COVID, by the way.

I just realized I should probably say that. I thought he had it, but you're right. I think he was just in the protocol, right? Because he's had a close contact. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I really think the big problem for Benning,

is, A, that he lost so much talent, obviously, because of all the reasons we just said. But also, almost all of it went to, or stayed in the division. And, like, they, you know, like, Tyler Jofoli looks fucking incredible for the haves all of a sudden. And it's like, well, I guess, you know, we can put Louis Erickson on the taxi squad instead of having that money. And, you know, Jacob Marks, like, he hasn't been lights out for the flames, but he's been, good, you know, he's been certainly above average, and Chris Tanev looks fine for now. That was never going to be the problem with that contract. And so, you know, the teams you're now directly competing against, they have all your good players and you replace them with almost nothing.

And, you know, like, you, Greg, you tweeted it the other day of like, so what's wrong with the Canucks? And it's like, well, everything anybody would have, like, said is a worst case scenario for, has happened. has exactly happened. Completely right. And like, so it's, the problem is that it's all foreseeable stuff. And should Benning have foreseen all that? Yeah, definitely. But also, like, what could he do?

He tied his own hands. So he was like, oh, boy, that looks like a train is coming right at me. And then the train hit him, you know? Ah. He's tied himself to the tracks. Yeah, that's exactly right. that's funny um before we move on since we have you here trance what the fuck's going on with Travis green why are they dicking them around why it's money i mean it's money like the everything

about this organization right now is you know the seams are showing everywhere i mean that's just what it is right like the the the knucks are basically the pride lands after a decade of scars rule you know what i'm saying like visible rib cages and on and on like this is just a lean organization and it extends to everything from their their HL affiliate isn't just playing in the United States two weeks removed. It's shared with the St. Louis Blues, right? Like everything is being done on a shoestring. And I think that's why Green's getting dicked around.

And, you know, the fact it is, that's ridiculous because you get into the spot where, like, right now, Adam Goddette is a healthy scratch for the Canucks, right? Adam Goddette's a 23-year-old player high work rate, a centerman who scored. at a 40 point rate for them last season. And he's a healthy scratch at the moment. And you just have to think, like,

is that the call that a GM who's invested long, or sorry, a coach who's invested long term makes? Or is it the call that a coach who, you know, needs to protect his reputation this season makes, right? And that's not a fair sort of spot to put your coach into, where every time he, you know, doesn't send Louis Erickson to the American League and dare him to report. for 700K, right?

Like every time, every decision they make now, it has to be, like, viewed through this prism of, does that make sense for the coach or the organization long term? Or does it make sense for the coach this season? That's, it's just completely unfair to a guy who is, you know, clearly, clearly an above average NHL bench boss, you know, with a chance to be better than that if he ever has a team with enough horses to, you know, be worth writing home about.

So, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, It's silly. The only thing that gives me pause is, while the Canucks have been, you know, pretty cheap about how they're operating in the short term, they haven't been afraid necessarily to make longer term investments. Like, I think they're still optimistic about this franchise as like financial positioning into the future. Yeah, Louis Erickson, Tyler Myers. These are great long-term investments. Oh, you're talking about something else. But the, but the, like the logic of a green extension. and is it's like it wouldn't kick in until next season anyway. And you can stagger coaches contracts doing all sorts of things. Like there's no reason you couldn't have him, you know, make $1.5 million next year with like a ratchet to $2 million if you have fans in the building, right? And then and then sort of go up so that as, you know, contract value ends up at that like 3, 3.2, you know, which would represent league average for NHL bench bosses.

there's no reason you couldn't structure a deal to mitigate your risk and have the guy locked in. The fact that they haven't done that does suggest to me anyway that with two years remaining after this one on Jim Benning's contract, those years, it's not believed they're fully guaranteed. The organization might be looking at this season as one to evaluate everybody before figuring out and charting the next direction. And that's sort of the one thing also that gave me pause when the Benning rumors started to fly is how much are those situations connected. Because otherwise, like, as much as, you know, this Canucks team has been mindful of their balance sheet this offseason, the logic of what's going on with Green doesn't quite

square with that entirely because of when he'd actually be getting a big raise. Real quick, what do you put, what odds do you put on him going to Seattle? Oh, I mean, knowing Canucks luck, right? Like seeing Markstrom in Calgary, Tannaven, Calgary, suggests to me that it's got to be like, 80% like for sure that's happening right

and honestly I think he'd be a good fit for an organization that has clearly built themselves out to be pretty open-minded

pretty progressive I think there's a lot of reasons to like that fit for green if that were the way it went well you can't bet on that but you can bet on a lot of stuff at my bookie

that's a sponsor of fuck suit this week easy easy eight an easy eight an easy Easy-Aate, thank you. It's that time of year when everything is decided in the National Football League. Obviously, the big old game is coming up, too. And my bookie is your place to get some action on that game, but also get nightly action on the National Hockey League, which is the thing that you like if you're listening to this dumb podcast. You've heard the name just around everywhere. My bookie, the industry's leading online sportsbook casino. It's not hard to understand why, with thousands of lines to bet on all of your favorite sports. They've got all the latest odds, period. Take advantage of my bookie's prop builder and live in-game betting. Man, I really wish I'd take it some action on that Vegas game there tonight. Where every single run, throw, touchdown, and goal is another chance for you to

put cash in your pocket. Visit their mobile-friendly website today and get your deposit matched halfway up to $1,000. Just use the promo code P-U-C-K when you make your first deposit. The best part is they make it simple with a variety of ways to deposit instantly, including credit card, bank transfer, Bitcoin. Not sure if they take GameStop stock. You'll have to check in with My Bookie. But Bitcoin for sure. Whether you're at home or on the go, on your laptop or on your phone,

it's not too late to make your New Year's resolution a resolution to get paid. Again, get your first deposit matched halfway up to $1,000 to promo code Puck, bet win, and get paid at MyBooky. All right, a couple things before we head out. Baseball Hall of Fame. I just wanted to know, Drans, because I honestly don't know where you stand on this. Where do you stand on the steroid guys getting into the baseball Hall of Fame? Oh, yeah, let him in.

Why wouldn't you let them in? They did amazing stuff. They did amazing stuff. In fact, I find baseball much less interesting now that there's not guys the size of brick houses, mashing 450. Yeah, no, why wouldn't you let them in? It's ridiculous. I love the people, too, who are like,

oh, I don't know if I can vote for Clemens because of character issues, but Kurt Schilling, oh boy, he's a guaranteed first ballot guy. It's like, what? What are you talking about? Who gives a fuck? Anyway, that's my view. I think that's fair. I also think that in the cases of Clemens and Bonds in particular,

I've always bought the idea that they were Hall of Famers before the Jews, in theory. Like, Barry Bonds was the best left fielder in baseball, like hands down, even when he was a twig with the pirates. Roger Clemens was Roger Clemens in 1986, you know, before the juice. Like, I've always felt like that part of it was a bit overstated.

That granted, maybe they achieved legendary status through means. But again, my problem with baseball is always like, we know these guys did it, or at least we're sure these guys did it. How many of those guys don't we know that did it? And in an era that was clearly the steroid era, the idea that you're going to fucking pull these guys out of a lineup is insane to me when everybody was cheating. You know? Yes. Yeah.

You're not going to know what percentage of Major League Baseball was doing the same thing those guys were. So, you know, like, I don't know, Barry Bond's shitload of home runs against guys who are also juicing. So, like, does that cancel it out? You know, I don't know. I would say it does, but I also, I just, I think Barry Bonds rocks. You know, one of my favorite players of all times. The shilling thing is weird for me because, like, I, you know, like I take obvious glee in him losing his fucking mind, not getting in. Like, that's great.

He's a horrible person. You know, wishing the death on journalists is not something that I generally find to be an appealing thing in any human being. but the character clause thing in the Hall of Fame always to me struck me as like the things that you did while you were a player It was also just introduced to like keep black people Out of the Hall of Fame Yeah so it's got it's got some problems fundamentally

With its introduction But I go I go back and forth on it Like I'm not saying that he belongs to the Hall of Fame I mean obviously like You know I'm not going to treat the baseball Hall of Fame With the fucking sanctimony that baseball writers do

where they film themselves voting and, you know, that video, God damn ruled. It was so funny. It was so funny. Yeah. It's, it's,

I mean, how many parodies of that are we going to see around awards time? Oh, yeah. You know, for the PSWA. But like, but like,

but like, there's also a part of me that's like, I, you know, if he's good enough as a player to get in, but he's a scumbbag, I don't know where I fall on that. I mean,

I don't have trouble voting for him just because he's a scumb bag. That's the thing everybody always says, but Ty Cobbs in. And so, like, the character thing doesn't really matter if he beats up a guy in a wheelchair or whatever. I don't remember what that story was now. But like, remember that?

That happened. Everybody knows it. It's not like that was the secret. Yeah. All right. Listen. Also, it wasn't, it wasn't illegal at the time, right? Like, this is every baseball writer is basically the NHL administering cap recapture.

You can't, you can't retroactively punish guys for things that weren't. legal at the time because you're all precious. That's ludicrous. Doesn't make sense. It's crazy. Nuts. It's insane. That's my view on it. If you need to build a steroid wing to make you feel a little bit more comfortable and

like slightly keep those guys askew from the rest of the pool, do it. But you're basically just not telling the story of 15 years of baseball history, which doesn't make it. Yeah. And the other thing to say is that next year apparently David Ortiz is eligible and he got caught with PEDs

and everybody loves David Ortiz, so is that going to matter to people? We'll find out. Also, A-Rod's eligible next year. That's going to be fun. Roger Clemens is the Ilya Kovalchuk of the baseball hall of fans. That's right. All about Capricatcher.

Real quick, couple things. We do want to mention the NWH bubble, which has been a lot of fun to watch. If you're not watching the games on Twitch, you should watch them. They're cool. Like, if you're flipping around the dial on NHL games and you're like,

I don't feel like watching the second period of Dallas and Detroit, waiting for their first shot on goal for 15 minutes. Flip on the NWHL. It's been good hockey. The big news this week, obviously, was the huge kerfuffle between Barstool and the NWHL, writers, fans, and then players, as Sonoya Tinker got involved. Not going to believe with the point, there are people that have a lot more skin in the game than three white dudes to comment on this. But just briefly, like, from a PR standpoint, it is amazing to me how Barstool is so adept at this, where the gripe for people was about the organization writ large and its history and its tactics and the way that they willfully

dispatch people to attack their critics without any repercussion or, in this case, even pulling back the reins. And then the reaction from Barstool is to center Eric and Ardini and say, these are heinous attacks on our CEO who is a girl boss and a respected person. Yeah, I can't believe liberal feminism got weaponized like this. That never happened. Yeah, it is incredible. Like, like, like, I'm watching the fucking day Portnoy video where he's saying that, you know, Sonoya Tinker should be in fucking jail, which is just beyond the goddamn pale to say shit like that, especially in this climate. And I'm thinking to myself, this is, this is the reason people don't want the NWA. to be in business with Barstall.

Is this man speaking right now? And then, like, the entirety of Barstall says, stop calling our CEO white supremacist. I'm like, you did an amazing job. Like, the fucking shell game these guys play sometimes when they get criticized is incredible. The other thing they do when they get criticized that is incredible is something that I've always known about Barstall that I don't quite know why people haven't really picked up on, which is that it's just Howard Stern shit, but like 30 years later.

It is doing something outrageous, getting criticism for, it and then taking that criticism and not only acting as if you're the aggrieved party, but then taking that aggrieved party thing and making it into content. How many fucking radio shows, Twitter accounts, social media videos were created off the back of the NWHL versus Erica Darnidi War this week? Like, fucking a day's worth? Two days worth? Yeah, more than that.

Like, it is incredible. And again, as every time this comes up, I, and I'm, and I'm, talking to somebody offline about it. I'm just like, follow the playbook. It's the same thing every time. I mean, it is just, it is not rocket surgery to figure out how they do this because part of the brand is a grievance. Part of the brand is, you know, they, they hate us because they ain't us. And it was really interesting to see how many bar still people came out against the NWHL from a perspective of, don't you want their money? Because like, you know, they, every day they have to deal with the fact that they work for an organization that has the reputation that it has.

And they've got to make the decision, do I, you know, want to face up to the reputation this organization has or do I want to cash the check? And they cash the check, which is they're right. That's fine. But it's really funny to see them looking at another organization being like, why don't you want to cash the check? Because I do, which is essentially what the NWHL issue was this week. So, I don't know. I hate seeing people attacked. But I'm also, in awe of how efficient the barstool reaction cycle is. It's been happening for years, and it's an art at this point. Also, it'd be great if Soraya Tinker didn't have to be the first person to speak out as a player.

It reminded me very much of the Evander Cain deal, where like Evander Cain had to pull the cork on talking about Black Lives Matter and George Lloyd's death, and then everybody decided they were comfortable with it. It does not have to keep falling on black players to fucking lead the charge for change in hockey. And we keep saying that every time it happens and yet it always happens. Like it has to because, you know. Because everybody's on the fucking fence. Yeah.

It's hockey. That's the point. I give her multitudes of credit. She's an amazing person to begin with. Like, you know, she's worked with the Black Girl Hockey Club and developing scholarship program. She does mentorship. She has used her platform as a, a player in a way that blows your mind that someone that young could be that smart about

the opportunity they've been given to have a voice and have a platform. But the fact that she had to be the first one to put her shingle out there and stick up for people that were getting attacked, it's fucking stomach churning at this point where every single time that falls on a black player to move this issue forward. So, I don't know. It's got to change at some point. uh, Drance, you're up against it.

Do you want to, do you want to head out? And then Lambert and I could do the last bit or what? Sounds good. Yeah. Sorry, I've got a, I've got my radio with Jason and Jason and Brough. They're going to call me shortly. So I better make sure I'm prepared for that. Hey, thanks for having me. Hey, listen, before you go, where can people find yourself? Oh, the athletic? I have, uh, athletic Vancouver. I write about the Canucks all the time. Sometimes I write about other teams, but not really.

And also I have a podcast called The VanCast. I do it with Jeff Patterson. It's very dry. If you want to know everything about the Canucks, it's a very dry Canucks podcast. No, we have a lot of fun. And then I'll be on TSN 1040. Awesome. Now that podcast, you're talking about like Dodge Caravans and Plymouth Voyagers and other

types of vans? Mostly, mostly it's about strategies for living in your van because, you know, this is Vancouver and real estate is pricey. So yeah, that's really, it's more about like good mobile appliances to help you live a good life in your van. Well, sir, as a dedicated fan of Love it or List It 2, I am fully aware of Vancouver's housing situation. Thank you, sir, for joining us this weekend. It was good to talk to you again, buddy. Yeah, thanks for having me, Jets.

Cheers. There he goes. Thomas Strance, ladies and gentlemen. All right. Lampert and I will close out the show with a little overrated, underrated. you had a couple of options here that were interesting but I'll leave it to you to choose

We had action leading men We had cheeses cookie types and brands Or Gretzky things Let's do Gretzky things All right In honor of the man himself's 60th birthday Didn't hear about it

When was that Happy birthday to the great one All right here we go Gretzky things overrated Gretzky thing uh jeez what would it be um

overrated Gretti Gretzky thing would be uh what what record should I pick yeah I I think um the overrated Gretzky thing is probably

uh just the fact that like oh can you believe he scored all these all these points it's incredible uh no I mean it's the 1980s. You know, like, honestly, I think he is the greatest offensive player ever. I think that would be very difficult to dispute because of the whole thing of like if he's never scored a

goal, you know, he'd be the all-time points leader in the league. No, you know what? I'm going to change it. It's the fucking, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, quote. Yeah, that's a good choice. I'll get down and agree with that. That is a part of his legacy and a very overrated thing that I think the office obviously co-opted. Yeah, well, the other thing I wanted to say about it, though, is I recently was looking at old Gretzky stuff, and it's really funny because, like, it was a quote that he gave to Bob McKenzie, like when he was on pace for, like, early in a season, he was on pace for, like, 500 shots on goal or some crazy fucking number like that. And so, you know, he said, people always say, you know, you go to shoot more, you

got to shoot more. And I always say you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. But only maybe three or five percent go in if you do take them. And it's like, Wayne, you might want to run those numbers back, but, I mean, I don't know off the top of my head what Wayne Gretzky's shooting percentages, but I'm going to assume it's than like Mark Gerdanos. Underrated Gretzky would be Stephen Brunt's book,

Gretzky's tears, which covers his time in Los Angeles. I feel like his time at Edmonton has been covered and covered and covered and covered again. This was the first time outside of maybe a little bit of that 30 for 30 where his career in L.A. was really brought to light for me. and the impact that he had in L.A. from a celebrity point of view is fucking incredible to view through today's lens.

So that would be an underrated. I don't think people really talk about that book at all, and I really loved it. If you ever get a chance, you should check it out. My underrated Gretzky thing is the fact that when they started doing like fantasy hockey, Wayne Gretzky was so good at scoring goals and assists that they had to, to start breaking it up between Gretzky assists and Gretzky goals. He was two separate players because if you were picking first, you picked Wayne Gretzky and the season was over.

Right. I think that's so funny. Like, again, you can talk all you want about like, oh, Mario and Mew is fucking incredible. And, you know, he probably is the greatest hockey player of all time. We mentioned it earlier. But with that having been said, they didn't break up his stat line to make it fair for everybody else. Right.

You know, like, that's how good Wayne Gretzky was and how outside the norm his, his scoring efficiency, if nothing else, was, was he was just like, you know what? We got to, we gotta do this. We got to, we gotta not let people

just win automatically. My favorite Gretzky thing is his ubiquity. Like, the fact that when I was a kid, there was a hockey player that was put on the same plateau as Jordan, Magic, Bird. Like, Mario was great, and people know the name. But Gretzky, Gretzky was iconic in a way that no hockey player in my lifetime has ever been. Yeah, it's the same, it's the same gimmick as like, you know, nobody else hosted. Mario Lemieux never hosted SNL, right?

Like, that's, if you want to put it that simply, that's true. Yeah. To have an icon like that, like, you know, like Gretzky's are Pele, you know, Gretskis are Muhammad Ali. Like, Gretzky is our guy whose name is so synonymous with the sport that it's almost like he's become an adjective and a verb and a noun. And it's, to have somebody like that associated with hockey still kind of blows my mind. and I will always, that's my single,

most favorite thing about Gratzky is that we have a player where even if you walk up to anybody in the fucking world and you're just like Wayne Gratzky, they're like a hockey player. Like that's incredible to me that this sport that otherwise is like tucked into the pocket of popular culture and then washed in the washing machine, you know, like fucking like, and it comes out in the link trap.

The fact that we have a player that that, that is that internationally and globally popular and generalationally popular is just the mind-blowing to me. Yeah, I think my favorite Redski stat of all time is he's the only player to score 200 points in a season, and he did it four times. That's incredible. Yeah, Mario, I think, got it once. Like, he did it one time. Or no, he got to 199 points and played, you know, eight fewer games. than he could have because he was Mario de Mue and he missed time, like, pretty much as like a

standard thing in his career, unfortunately. But, yeah, he's the only guy who's even gotten close, I'm pretty sure. So the fact that Gretzky was like, oh, yeah, I did it like four times, no big deal. Right. Least favorite thing about Gretzky, I mean, it's got to be the St. Louis stint, right? Yeah, I think that's a good one. It all makes sense. Edmondson, sure, absolutely.

He's the Canada's favorite son. L.A., he sparked a wave of Western expansion and unprecedented popularity for the sport in the state of California. New York, absolutely. Messier's there. It's Broadway. It's a great place to say goodbye. And then St. Louis. Yeah, it's really funny to me that he played in the two of like the biggest, like medium

markets in the world. And then he also played in St. Louis and Edmonton. And, like, Edmonton, he didn't have any control over because he signed with a team in Indianapolis when he was like 16 or something. And then they were just like, uh, this is an Edmonton team now. Yeah. Okay. It's like, it's like if LeBron, it's like if LeBron went from like Cleveland to Miami to Memphis

and then to L.A. That's exactly what it is. Yes. All right. That's fuck soon for this week. A fun episode. Thanks to our buddy Thomas Dranser, pinchitting for Down Goes Brown. Sean, if you heard the bonus episode on the Patreon on one for one trades, a busy week for our boy. So Dranser was nice enough to hop in and bring his boisterous chuckle and insight on the Canucks to the podcast this week. And we always like talking to Thomas. Eventually, we might get back to having guests when it's a

little bit easier to do it without the Zoom and all that bullshit, because it's always fun to talk to different people. You can find my stuff on ESPN. Good news for my Canadian fans or readers. Readers is better than fans. I don't want to sound like a fucking megalomaniac. Apparently, my ESPN plus stuff has been, the word is ungated. So international readers should be able to finally have access to my columns and stuff without being subscribers. So if that's the case, hopefully it is congratulations you can read my stuff again I have obviously something on

Andreem Rutherford and the Penguins this week and some other cool stuff cooking in the near future what do you got Lambert yes I'm up for the Puck Soup Patreon um stick to sports

the newsletter bonus episodes right and also keep an eye out I will have a new, I don't know, if you want to say landing spot or something, next week. I don't know if I'm allowed to say it yet. Oh.

Just keep an eye out for that. Yeah, starting on Monday. The flippity flop. Cool. And then also, if you're on the Patreon, I did publish a pop culture feature last week about how much I was mad at the new name that tune for cheating. basically its own established rules. I watched that show again last night.

I do enjoy name that tune from a structural standpoint. And I have to say that I did not realize how much part of my life would suck without you by Kelly Clarkson is reminiscent of Lady Gaga's Edge of Glory and would have gotten that song wrong in the Golden Medley round. So I live with much shame and embarrassing. Speaking of which, have you, Fox Game Show is, have you watched The Chase, the new...

Oh, I'm a huge fan of the chase. It's on ABC. Oh, my God. Yeah, I was a fan of the Chase back when it was the Beast, the Big Fat British guy. They used to have that show on Game Show Network, and was a big fan of the show then. I still, Miss Brooke Burns was the host, and she was great. But that show is a ton of fun. Structurally great.

I do wonder if there was a way to make the final round a little bit more exciting, because I feel like it's definitely plays to the hands of the smart guy. Well, I think the real problem is that on most episodes it's like one person who's very obviously not good at the game and one person who is

very good at the game and they're kind of like waiting for the other person to ring in and they just don't do it. Yeah, and it's also one of these deals where these guys don't quite get the strategy of it, which is that if you know you have somebody who's an idiot, try to get them to increase the amount of

money in your bank as much as possible by taking the most challenging path in the shortest distance between themselves and the chaser. And then if they succeed, great, they've added money to your bank. If they fail, you've gotten a dumb-dum off your team. That's exactly what they should do. I was watching it last night,

the most recent episode, and they were like, and one thing people don't do enough on that show is pass when they don't know the answer. They'll sit there and go, John Roberts, and they were like, well, Stephen Breyer is the oldest one. And you also wasted four of your like four extra seconds.

If you don't know it immediately pass and go to the next one. Pass it. Yeah. It's good strategy. Also, speaking of game show, shout out to my friend Elliot Kalin, who I know from the flop house and from his work as lead writer on Mystery Science Theater 3000 and from Douglas movies where Elliot and I first met. He was on Jeopardy this week and did not win.

Came in second, but acquitted himself quite well. And it was cool to see. I've only known maybe like three or four people that I've ever been on Jeopardy, so it's always cool to see that happen. It was kind of starstruck because he didn't mention it beforehand. Then we turned it on, me and Ruby as we were eating dinner. Yeah, it was really cool. Yeah, I only, that only happens to me on like hockey, where I go, oh, I know that guy.

He's my friend. Right. Yeah, it used to happen to be on cops. All right, everybody. Thanks for listen to Puck Soup. Enjoy the mailbag. Hopefully you dig the bonus this week. I thought it was a lot of fun.

Really creative idea on creating some Blockbuster One for One trades. And we'll talk to you next week when Sean's back. Take care everybody. See it. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute.

We also cover movies, TV shows. It's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of our games. and nonsense about two