Puck Soup - Podcast-Related Reasons

Episode Date: February 15, 2023

Sean and Ryan talk about the trades, the players who will be traded, the trade deadline, and other stuff that has less to do with trades.   Sponsored by Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hockey and Nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McAnew from The Athletic. And some big news right off the hop this morning. I'm reading from a CNBC article.

Diamond Sports. You know it's going to be an exciting show. Diamond Sports Group, the owner of the largest portfolio of regional sports networks is preparing for a likely bankruptcy filing after skipping an interest payment due to bondholders Wednesday. Decided to miss about 140 million in interest payments due to bondholders and would instead enter a 30-day race period. Basically what this means is that there's a bunch of NFL or NFL, NHL and NBA teams that are on the regional sports networks known by the name Bali Sports.

And it's bad news for them. It's not immediately clear to me what this, I'm not smart enough to know what this means for the NHL and like the salary cap and stuff like that, but I can speculate that it's not good. Yeah, just an enormous source of revenue has the potential to disappear.

I wouldn't say, yeah, overnight, also this is, I mean, it feels like it's been knowing that things were headed in this direction for a while. I mean, this has been a story for months. now. And Gary Betman recently said like, we're not worried about it yet. Oh, well, then there you go. I mean, he wouldn't. Gary Bettman wouldn't lie to us. No, no, no. The networks are home to more than half of all Major League Baseball, NHL, and NBA team broadcasts in the U.S.

And they're saying, you know, the classic thing of like, everybody's cutting the cord. Yeah. that's not our fault. Yeah. I'm sure there's some of that. But yeah, so a bad situation, we don't know. I mean, I guess the first thing is we don't know what it means for the broadcasts in the very short term. Like, are you, if you're a Dallas Stars fan, are you going to turn on and see that there's just like no game that night because.

Diamond Sports Group says that it is committed to keeping those. games on the air for the immediate future. But yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty, uh, worrying stuff. Like, again, for, for fans of teams that just want to, like, watch the games on TV, right? But also for the league as a whole, just because, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars in, in revenues probably come from, from this. Yeah, I would imagine league-wide it is significant. Now, there has been talk of leagues.

You know, maybe in theory you can turn around and remarket those rights, although obviously that isn't something that happens immediately. Maybe you get a better deal somewhere, you know, but although the bubble is collapsing a little bit on live sports rights. There's also talk that the leagues themselves may step in and sort of take over some of these broadcasts and turn them into assets. So it's not necessarily something that it will be bad news in the long run because the leagues and the teams get an asset back that has value. but short term it's at the very least going to cause some confusion.

Yeah. I'd say it's some instability. This is from a Sportico article on like more like about the match the machinations of what this could all mean and that kind of thing. Like legal processes and stuff. And they have like a legal expert saying the big question is what happens post bankruptcy. Despite entering bankruptcy, Diamond would have some leverage as the debt. it would assume or reject broadcasting contracts with the teams or more likely try to renegotiate the terms. Okay.

Should Diamond assume the contracts, it would take the contracts as they are and pay what the original agreement was. If it rejects them, obviously, it's like, oh, we don't, you know. But if that happens, it says here they could be liable for breach of contract. and if that happens, teams might get nickels and dimes in recovery, depending on a host of factors, including whether the debt is secured or unsecured, and whether legal claims are discharged via bankruptcy. And then usually it's like in between those two things, the guy says. So it seems like the teams are going to take a bit of a pay cut on this is probably like the most likely out. come here. Right. And as far as, you know, if you're a fan going, do I care about this as long as things stay on the air? Yeah, because if enough teams lose money on this, that means hockey

related revenues take a hit, which could impact the salary cap. So after all this talk about the flat cap and finally the cap's going to start going up again, hold on. We have a another complication. Yeah, that is why it's a big deal. Specifically, this could have a potentially like not unsmall impact on league revenues.

Again, like, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars, depending on how things shake out. So, it's just something for everybody to keep an eye on. Like, even if your team's not on Bali, like, this will,

in all likelihood to have at least some small effect on your favorite team. Whether you're in Canada or, you know, you're just like not on ballet sports broadcasts. There's still a problem.

And beyond that, it's sort of a wait and see and wait for the people who are very knowledgeable about the inner workings of the business side. Wait for them to weigh in.

Yeah. Because they'll probably know, A little bit more than that. Yeah, the Sportico article also says, like, usually when this happens, they act like it's going to be a month-long timeline, and then it'll get figured out before that, basically. Like, once they miss the debt payment, they have another month to file for bankruptcy if they're going to do that, which it looks like they would. But that things usually get resolved before that because nobody wants to actually go through bankruptcy and all the, legal ins and outs that come with that, like on either side. So, again, just something for everybody to keep an eye on that's like the breaking news of the day here.

But let's talk about the stuff that I actually had written down on the outline besides that. And let's start with the Vladimir Tarasenko trade. Yeah. Did it feel like a surprise to you? Were you a little... Just in terms of how Ruralia was. destination and all of that? Well, you know, the destination only is surprised because everybody was saying they're trading for Patrick Kane the whole time, you know.

But the Rangers needed a winger. I think inarguable that Tarasenko is better than Patrick Kane at this point. And, you know, even obviously he's not going to keep up what he's done in the first few years. games with the Rangers here where he's been a really good player and, you know, it allows Panarin to kind of go apeshit like he can sometimes. Like, I don't think those, you know, that's an every game thing, but he's, I think he's going to really help them, yeah. Yeah.

I was pretty sold on the Patrick Kane idea for the Rangers. So I think that's the. the interesting piece of this. I think as trades go, it's, you know, it's fine. The timing, a bit early, but we already had the Horvot trade, so it's kind of like, you know, the market is open. It didn't feel, yeah, for sure. And it, I guess, just sort of felt like, you know, if you're the Rangers, and here's a guy

who addresses what you need, the price seems reasonable. you know, is he better than Patrick Kane right now? Yes. I mean, yeah, you can certainly make the case. I mean, he's not having a great year, Teresenko. He's got like 10 calls. No, but he's also not like clearly injured. Yes.

Right? Like that is. So, yeah, I mean, you jump and you make your move. It's a tough one if you're Chicago because they, I think, I mean, you saw Patrick Kane's reaction. where he certainly didn't seem happy about the fact that the Rangers were off the board as a potential trade destination. We don't know how many, remember, he's got the no move. We don't know how many places he's willing to say yes to, but it certainly sounded like the Rangers were on that list. So even if that wasn't where you're ultimately going to send him, it would have been great if you're Kyle Davidson to have the Rangers bidding and being publicly known to be in the bidding on this and drive the price up.

and now it certainly seems like that's off the table. So that's a bit tough. But it makes sense. You know, I think from a Rangers perspective, and they've been real good lately, yeah, I mean, you absolutely can see the logic there. And, you know, from the blues perspective, there's always the sense of, you know,

could they have gotten more? Could they have... You got a guy with the no trade clause. Yeah. You have to negotiate with that. You have to work with that. And also with the Ryan O'Reilly situation, I've seen some analysis that said, like, you know what, if you're Doug Armstrong, you don't want to be juggling both of those going into the deadline. For sure.

If you can get one out of the way, it makes sense. So, I mean, it feels like it's a deal that makes reasonable sense for both teams. Yeah, I like the return that St. Louis got more than I think most people do. again like it's a conditional first round pick and so it's a little tough to figure out like exactly what that pick's going to be and all that kind of stuff but I just um you know like like you said the fact that he had a no trade your your hands are kind of tied now he had a no trade but he had been asking for a trade for two years so it was but then they were like if they were if they had said uh you the coyotes

will give us a first round pick. It would have been like, no thanks. It wasn't quite a Patrick Kane situation, I'm saying, where it's, you know, there was a chance that he was going to go, no, I'm not interested in a trade at all. Or here's a list of two teams. But, yeah, you do still have to figure that out. And, you know, I guess there had been a list submitted at one point.

And they were able to draw on that. Yeah, and it turns out Tarasenko and Panarin are like best friends. And not in the way that it's like, oh, you know, these guys played together in Sarnia in 2008. So, you know, like they're actually best friends. And the other piece of it, I guess we should mention is apparently, and I'd say this, because, you know, I don't claim to be an expert on every player on every team. But apparently this, this Nico McCola, well, I was going to say kid, he's 27, I think.

Defensemen who went to the Rangers in the deal is also a pretty solid piece. Like a lot of times we're used to as fans. She's fine, yeah. Yeah, we're used to as fans seeing like the big name and then the draft picks. And then usually you see some other names. But there, you know, you can kind of tone those out. But, you know, this actually was a piece that will help the Rangers. I mean, the Rangers had also, we knew they wanted a, you know, top six, if not top line winger,

but also needed to supplement the blue line. And they sort of kill two birds with one stone. So, yeah, McCola is a guy that, like, you know, he'll play on your bottom pairing,

but he can be useful there. And the Rangers have a decent enough blue line that, like, they don't need him to be anything more than that. And, yeah, and I mean,

to only, only give up, like, kind of a late first round pick. Um, I don't even know the conditions on the fourth round pick. An AHL player and Hunter Skinner, who's like,

not anything. And Sammy Blake, who like the only funny thing about it like Sammy Blais that like the guy he just can't get around well enough right like that that's his problem and uh to play at the NHL level at a in the role that I think a lot of people kind of thought he could play when the Rangers acquired him he just kind of can't do that um so he plays 54 games with the Rangers doesn't score a single goal first game back in St. Louis goal city baby let's do it course that's that's so funny. But yeah. Like I said, I like this more for the, for the blues than, I think most people just because I, like I said, their hands were more tied, I feel like, than people wanted to, like you said. Like, yeah, there was a trade request in for, I think,

the last six years, maybe, something like that. But, uh, it was just a thing where Tarasenko was just going to be like, I guess I'm happy to live in St. Louis for another like three months. I guess that's fine. And then they said, we'll trade you to the Rangers. And he said, yeah, see you later. Yeah. I mean, you got to remember guys like this.

Yes, it's very good to go and chase a Stanley Cup. In theory, you want that, even though he obviously has one from a few years ago. But also, you're hitting into the free agency market. You don't want to disappear off everyone's radar in mid-April. you want to go somewhere and score a few goals that get shown on every highlight reel and, you know, keep your name top of mind. That's money in your pocket when, uh, when the market opens. Yeah, hell, I mean, you know, uh, it could, it could be a situation where, um, you know,

the, the, like he scores an important goal for the Rangers in the playoffs, let alone in the regular season where, you know, people are still watching. Like, if you score the game-winning goal in, like, a series, that's worth a million dollars a year. Could be, huh? You know, so, like, ask Billy Lano, right? Like, that can really work out well for you. And I think, and like I said, I think Tarasenko is well positioned to have that be, like, a legitimate opportunity for him. So I really like it for the Rangers quite a bit.

How high are you on the Rangers right now as a contender in the east? Like where do you put them? I've been really good for a while now. Yeah, I can't put them ahead of Carolina. And I probably can't put them ahead of any of maybe the Leafs. But other than that, like Boston, Tampa and Carolina, I think are all clearly better. Yeah. If the playoffs start today, though, do you, are the.

Rangers the favorite over the Devils? So I have written down here Metro Arms Race is the thing we should talk about. Tarasenko and obviously the Horvatt trade are kind of going to make the Metro a little tougher. And the Devils won last night, and I think they're on like a nice little streak for themselves.

But I was looking at some like, you know, last month, in the numbers for the past month earlier today. And the Devils are like not playing well. Okay. They're winning a lot of games, but they're just, yeah, they're 11, 1, and 2 in their last 14 games, the devils. So when you say they're not playing well, like underlying numbers sort of? Underlying numbers are like bad, bad, like 26th, 27th in the league.

Apparently it doesn't matter. And that, you know, but that is a big change from where they were earlier this year when they won all those games. games like they were actively killing teams. It was like, you know, 65% of the expected goals every night or whatever. More recently, it's like 45% of the expected goals. And I wonder, the other thing I guess you should say, we should say about the devils here is a lot of overtime and shootout results in recent, in recent weeks that, you know, obviously once you get to the playoffs, those rules change. So I don't know. Yeah, eight of their last 14 games have gone to a shootout, overtime or a shootout.

And they've won all but two of them. So I don't know. Like there are the Rangers better than that? I think the Rangers, I would say, should be favorites against the Devils because they have a proven goal tending situation. Yep. And we should say that if the playoffs started now, they would play. That's the first. The devils would have home ice, though.

And the devils are five points up. So the devils are likely to keep home ice. I would think that's true. Yeah. But like, so at this point, that matchup feels like it's Tampa and Toronto without the drama of who's going to be the home ice team in that series. Yeah. I mean, because the devils would have to blow it to give up. The devils would put their hand up and say, we're only three points back of Carolina.

right now with 30 games left. Yeah, but they don't have Jack Hughes for a certain amount of time. Doesn't help. And again, they're just like not playing well right now. And I guess the other thing to say about these last 14 games, a lot of games against teams that suck. Okay. Anaheim, San Jose, Seattle, talk about a team that hasn't been playing well for the last month.

Nashville, Vancouver, Seattle, again. and then Columbus last night, like, I don't know, I don't know how many games I just said, but is that like half of their games are against like kind of objectively not playing well teams right now?

So I don't know. Like I say, I think if you're looking at it right this second, and obviously there's 30 games to go or 28 games or whatever, I think you would have to say the Rangers are, um, are,

are the favorite in the, that series just because we again you just don't know what the goaltending in in new jersey versus you kind of do know what the goaltending in new york and i guess we should also say that this is kind of a a weird snapshot in time to ask that question given the rangers just made their big move and the devils haven't yet like if they new jersey trades for timo mire tomorrow which they could then the conversation maybe becomes different. Maybe the end result isn't, but it certainly changes the perception.

But yeah, okay, I just pulled it up. In the last month, the devil's 45% of the expected goals, 48% in basically every other underlying number except goals. And then the Rangers, 53% expected goals, a little underwater in every other category. And then, yeah, they're scoring 63% of the goals. goals in the game. So yeah, they're just, and again, like the, the goal tending seems to be heating up for the Rangers as well these days. So right now, I guess they'd be my favorite, but the devils

are trading for Tim O' Meyer. And probably by the time this podcast is over. Yeah, fair point. So, yeah, I, but I, I, to your point about, uh, you know, the devil's only being three back of Carolina. Doesn't it feel like Carolina's going to fucking run away with this, though? The way things are going there, eight one and one in their last 10, something like that. It does. It's just that they're not yet. And we don't know what moves they'll make, but

they also lost Max Patcheretti, who they hadn't had for most of the season. So it's not like... Yeah, he only played like four years. But it, I mean, that was a key player that they expected to have. So their outlook in theory is worse now than it was a few weeks ago. Again, pending whatever they do over the next few weeks. Yeah.

I don't know. I guess the one other thing to talk about with all that is, do you see the islanders kind of clawing their way back? So the wild card right now is basically the entire race is like Pittsburgh, Washington, the Islanders, and maybe Florida. And I guess Buffalo technically has enough games in hand that they could make it interesting, but they probably won't. Yeah.

So the question is, like, do the Islanders plus Horvatt have enough to get over the hump? They're, you know, they're right there with Washington. It is, you know, they are right there. Tough last three games for them. Yep. Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, and they get two points out of that with a pair of overtime losses. Yeah, they're not a, they're not a particularly good team. That's the thing about the Islanders.

That hurts a lot. I mean, you need five or six points out of those points together, yeah, for sure. Especially right after you make the big trade. Now, they've got Pittsburgh, two of their next three. So there's, there's your, you know, there's your there's your key to the to you know your key opportunity at least to to to gain big ground on one of the teams you're chasing and in between those two games they've got Boston and I mean since they just lost to three bad teams they probably will be the

Bruins because that's the NHL that's typically how it happens um you look I mean the islanders are are in decent shape I still if if I got a pick out of any of that group Washington New York Florida Buffalo I think I'm taking Florida at this point They're not rolling, but there's so much talent there and they're, they're not, you know, they're close. They're, they're right there. And out of all those teams to go on a bit of a, a bit of a run, I feel like they're the most likely, especially with Washington missing Alexander. Well, yeah. Yeah, Washington's missing, Ovechkin.

Yeah, Alex Ovechkin's dad passed away in the last night. last day or two here. So you just announced that this morning. So who knows how long he'll be away? You know, this kind of thing, it's not usually that long. So I don't know. But yeah, I just, I don't know. It doesn't feel sewn up by any means, but like, man, if I'm saying, oh, yeah, I'm

counting on Florida and the Islanders to hop in and make this playoff race interesting, the white things have gone this year. I'd love to be wrong. And Buffalo has five games in hand on the Panthers, by the way. God bless the schedule. That's truly an unbelievable gap. Look at that. Okay.

Well, yeah, the Sabres are ahead of Florida and New York in terms of points percentage. And, geez, Detroit's right back in it. What is going on here? Parity. This is what we wanted, you know. Senators, you know, maybe, maybe within range of playing. No, no, I'm not allowing that. I'm not allowing this. No. Have you heard about this one time there's a guy who liked hamburgers and he... Well, it's just so funny because every time I write what we learned and you Google like, oh, Ottawa Senators, what's the latest, you know?

it's just like Sportsnet or what's the local paper there the Ottawa citizen is that right? The Citizen and the Sun, yeah. The Citizen and the Sun. One of those every single week is like, look, they've won one in a row. Are they about to get back?

And it's like, please don't do this. You know, their goalies are injured now. That's their thing, man. They're playing the hits. Yeah, they really are. But no, I won't accept it. Although, you know what? I have seen suggestions like, hey, they might buy at the deadline.

That would be absolutely bad shit crazy, unless they're getting Jacob Chikrin. Why don't we do this? Why don't we take a break and then we'll come back and we'll talk about all the guys who are going to maybe get traded and that kind of stuff just to. We only got one ad break this week. So let's get it out of the way early. What are you saying? Sounds good. Great.

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That's athletic greens.com slash puck. Check it out. All right. Trade board, trade rumors, all that kind of stuff. Let's start with the big one here, Jacob Chikrin. Mm-hmm. held out of Saturday and Monday's games for, quote, trade-related reasons. Yes. How do you feel about this, like, new thing that has just dropped?

Because Columbus has done it too now where, I mean, it's not new that guys are being held out. I guess maybe it's just new that they're saying it. And also, I mean, it always felt like guys were held out when a trade was imminent. Like, the trade was going to happen that. night or the next day. And while any of these guys could move at any time, it sort of feels almost like

they're saying like, we're just not going to play this guy until the deadline at all. I don't know. It's smart asset management. You can obviously see why they would do it because if, you know, not just Jacob Chicker, but especially some of these guys that are pending

UFA is if they get hurt, you've just cost yourself. a nice pile of future assets, but also, I don't know. I mean, I guess in a league where tanking is fine and if not encouraged, shutting your players down kind of achieves dual purpose. I guess it's smart.

Well, first of all, nobody tanks in the NHL and everybody knows that that's true. Good. I'm glad to hear that. All right. But second, no, I think it is the like only thing to do because like you're not doing right, especially in Chickren's case where he's basically asked for a trade. Like the team wouldn't be doing right by him in terms of because, you know, I think a lot of the times when guys ask for a trade, teams do try to accommodate that in a way that makes sense. Um, you know, not too many teams are going to be like, oh, you want to trade? Uh, won't you go fuck yourself instead?

How does that sound? You know, um, obviously they don't always come to pass or, or they don't come to pass in a way that, like, is as quick as people might want. Uh, but like, I think, I think a lot of the time NHL teams are like, yeah, we, we, we can try to make that happen. but it has to make sense for us too. And that's kind of what happened with chicken, right? Like, we knew about this a year and a half ago. Like, how long ago did we first hear about like, oh, Shikering kind of wants that.

At the beginning of last season, we started to hear that he was going to be moved. And I said at the time, I said, this feels like a decoy. I don't see why they would move him. Now, since then, he has, it sounds like he's kind of went to them and said, like, okay, enough. Like now that's exactly right. But yeah, this has been going on for the better part of two seasons now. Right.

So, but my point is that it wouldn't be doing right by him to let him keep playing and potentially like, you know, take a slap shot off the inside of his foot and that's the end of his season. He's not going to trade it again. But also it just makes sense for the team because it's like if he takes a slap shot off the inside of his foot, they can't. get a first round pick in this draft, basically, or more than one, perhaps, you know, whatever whatever the package ends up being. Like, I think it makes sense for everybody involved. I don't have a problem with it at all. Now, would you, would you feel that same way if, like, all the big names just got shut down? Like, that's, Klingbird's not playing anymore. Kaine, Taves, everybody gets, gets put up in the press box until, until such time is traded. I don't, I don't know why

Kane, Taves, and Klingberg, if their teams are tanking, why you would put those guys in the press box? They're all bad. They've been horrible this year. But they're trade, man. They're trade assets, right? I mean. Oh, no, for sure.

I was making a joke about how it helps, it helps the tank to have them on the ice. There might be that, yes. But no, I, I just think that, I just think that like, yeah, what do I care? I'm not, like, that gets into the thing of like, oh, you know, in NBA games, guys get shut down or, you know, rested or whatever. And, you know, you buy a ticket to see the Lakers and that's one of the games

LeBron isn't playing, right? That sucks for those people. But look, the team already sold the ticket. Well, but what's it? Did you see the thing this week where at their Adam Silver was saying, like, this, this load management trend is going to impact our next TV deal because, you know, TV partners are, you know, maybe you've already sold the tickets, but we haven't sold the TV rights yet. And they're not interested in broadcast, you know, paying X dollars for the Lakers and then finding out that LeBron's not playing tonight. And there's sort of, and I tweeted that like this is a discussion that is going to come to hockey.

I'm surprised load management isn't a thing in hockey in the same way that it isn't. in the NBA, which is to say star players just being given nights off. Not because they're hurt, not because they're banged up. Just take a night off. Like, you're going to play 60 games instead of 80.

I think that's an extreme example, though. Like, I think it's more like you're going to play like 72 games instead of 82. Maybe. Well, they said that, like, the number that in the piece I was looking at was 68 games. They were saying that, like, for the first time, more MVP candidates played fewer than 68 games than played more.

Now, part of this is also the NBA. It's just the way the NBA thinks of numbers is more on a per game basis. So that part gets a little different from how hockey would be. But I do wonder if there's going to be a point where, you know, maybe by the time Connor Baudards in his prime that the conventional wisdom is like, no, he shouldn't play more than 70 games in a season. and it's probably not going to be the home games he misses. So, you know, if you're a fan in Columbus, waiting to see Carter Bredard, and you buy those tickets three months later, the day finally arrives.

And it's like, yeah, he's not playing. Is he hurt? No, he just doesn't. They don't want him to play tonight. So, yeah, I just, this could, this is sort of like that in a way, except it's, it's not load management. It's, it's asset management. Yeah, and like I say, I don't, I don't have a problem with it.

Just because I think that it is to the benefit of basically every party involved except the fans. And look, if the NHL wants to start talking about what is good or not good for the fans, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's, I feel like, higher on the list than I'm not going to get to see Vladislav Gavakov play tonight. You know what I mean? God bless him. I love this guy. This kid has become Bobby Orr. Well, yeah, let's finish talking about Chikrin, though.

So. You mean the actual potentially good defenseman who could be worth giving up? Yeah, okay. Yeah. So Chikrin, it seems like, is going to be a first, a couple of prospects, maybe more than that, that kind of thing. And again, not a rental. Notable assets. This is.

And it's not a rental at all. Right. He's signed for two years after this one. I think two years after this. Nice cheap deal teams could fit. I mean, certainly if there's any salary retention, it goes from nice cheap deal to outright bargain. I mean, it's so, yeah, it should be a very valuable asset. Yeah, no.

And so, okay, it seems like Toronto and Edmonton just kind of like are priced out of it, where they don't want to give up or maybe don't even have. what it takes to meet the coyote's price. Seems like it's not going to be the senators either. Yeah, the senator, that's a bit of a weird one, but again, given that there's term here, it does open up to more than just the usual. Yes, for short-term contenders. Everybody kind of decided that it was going to be L.A., and most of that is just like,

Like I looked at all the teams in the league that are kind of good, and this is the team that could maybe use Jacob Trickrin the most. But also, like, it does seem like they have legitimately engaged on the trade there and that kind of thing. And they can use him. And also it's like the timing feels right, because this is a team that is, okay, they were good last year, they're good this year. It's time to take the next step.

And the next, the true contending window opens over the next few years. so it's it does seem to align with all their timelines. Yeah, and I guess the other thing about it is that like, you know, they spent years being bad so that they would have the assets to make this happen. Mm-hmm. Right? So, I don't know. For me, for me, it's like an easy call just because, like, if you're L.A., obviously you don't want to put

Brant Clark and Quentin Byfields in the trade because those guys you think are going to be contributors on your team next season. Right. Right. So like, but if it's anybody else, apparently the issue is,

and I think this was Elliot reported this, the issue was that like, LA was going to have to send a contract back and the coyotes were like, well, we don't want that contract. Which to me, This is just me guessing. Okay.

That says Cal Peterson. Ah, oh yeah, okay. I was going to say, usually taking the bad contract back is exactly what the coyotes are willing to do, but that one's got term. Yeah, there's three years or two years left after this one, but he makes $5 million against the cap. That's really bad. And part of, and the real part of the problem with that is, is, uh, four million in signing bonuses this summer. Eesh.

Like, I feel, I feel like if, if there was a way for L.A. to keep him until that signing bonus gets paid and then trade him, the coyotes are like happy to do it. Maybe, you know, but. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's really tough. Um, and again, that's just me guessing as to what the hang up would be. be there. But I, because I just can't imagine there are any other contracts on, on the King's roster where it's like,

yikes, absolutely not. Yeah, like, if I'm the coyotes, I'll take, I'll take a bad contract this year. Yeah, give me Jonathan quick. Yeah. That's fine. But. Yeah, I think, I think if you're, if you're the coyotes and you're taking on term, you want it, you want it to be the classic thing where all the bonuses are already paid or whatever.

And so you, you're on the hook for. a million in actual cash, but like five million against the books. Like that's, that's a different story altogether. But yeah, at this point, I guess I would be surprised to see absolutely anybody else jump in on this than besides the Kings. Yeah. We've heard Florida and like, I read over the weekend that like, that's where Chikrin would like to be. That's where his dad obviously works at this point.

Oh, I don't know. Yeah, he's on one of the broadcasts, I believe. And so you can see why, like, Florida makes sense, but they just don't have the assets, period. Like, they even start the conversation, I feel like, unless it's like you can have Spencer Knight. And then you've got to give up multiple picks and that kind of thing. But they, again, don't have a first round pick this year.

And that, if I'm the coyote, you know what? I just looked it up. They don't have their first round pick the next three. years. Ooh. Okay. Or at least it's not freed up right now because of... Yeah, not available to trade.

Yes. Right. So, like, Panthers are just out. So who else is it? Carolina, maybe? Carolina is a possibility. I just...

Like, Boston has been mentioned a little bit. That's true. But again, like, does Boston have... They have... I guess they have the first round picks, but they don't have the prospects. like is Boston going to give up two of their first round picks and then like Fabian Lysel? Is that it's it's just that it's like it's so hard to get out of the mode of looking at the contenders.

Because it could make sense for like a Detroit to get in. Sure. Yeah, for sure. You mentioned Ottawa. Buffalo. Boy, how pissed would everybody be if like Seattle or like, you know, like, oh, he's going to Columbus. everybody would be furious. Oh, God.

Yeah. I guess I shouldn't be lumping Seattle in with Columbus. They're not that bad. But any of those should be potential destinations. Because, again, you're not just getting the guy because you think you're making the playoffs this year. You're getting them for the next couple. And then, you know, you still have his negotiating rights and everything from there. So I think this is one of those where I could see a deal happening where you're, like,

like, what, what team? Like, really? I hadn't even thought of those guys. But maybe it could make sense. And that's, look, Arizona's done a good job. They played a long game on this. I still don't believe they ever seriously were looking to move him last year, but they've had his name out there so long that I think they're going to get a good price.

Yeah, I agree. All right, let's move on to Timo Meyer. Excuse me. Timo Meyer. It feels like he's the big one now, right? For sure he is. Yeah, he's awesome. And believe me, if he was a center instead of a winger,

he'd be getting like the combined cost of Bo Horvett and Vladimir Tarasenko. People would be losing their fucking minds over this guy. He's so good. He's so good. And he's going to really help whoever trades for him. And here's the thing. This is the other thing that is very important to say. He might not be...

How do I want to put this? In terms of rank at his position in the league, he's maybe not where Jacob Chikrin is. You know what I mean? Like, say Jacob Chikrin's the 10th best defenseman. I don't know that Myers the 10th best winger, you know? But the difference is

that like a really good even winger is more valuable than a really a slightly better than that defenseman. Yep. So. Yeah, I mean, obviously depending on the team, but is, I have a feeling I know if you see to this. Yeah. Is this, does Patrick Kane factor into this at all as far as, you know,

if Kane got moved, then if, if you're in the, if you're shopping for a top six impact forward, you're really down to one guy. And I know you could argue that Kane isn't that guy, period, but he'll be perceived that way by somebody, you would think. Right. Or is it, are we just at the point now where it's like, look, Orvette's gone, Teresanko's gone, this is the guy that's left. And San Jose should, should be able to name its price. I think that's true, especially because I think. think that a lot of the teams that are in the conversation for a team O'Myer are like demonstrably

smart teams New Jersey, Carolina. You could even say Boston is maybe interested. Although I don't know how many fucking wingers those guys need, but you know what I mean. Just these are smart teams and they're, I think those teams specifically wouldn't get suckered into a cane trade in the way. that maybe the Edmonton Oilers would or something like that, you know. So, yeah, that's just kind of where I think, you know, like, even before, Horvett maybe, like, Meyer should have been prized above Tarasenko, but probably the price just didn't make sense for the Rangers and they wanted to get something

done ASAP, right? Yeah, I imagine they just didn't feel like they could be in that game. Or the sharks didn't want to do it yet, right? And so they said, okay, like our plan B will become our plan A because team A isn't playing ball, but team B will. But we'll team O. Okay. This is why he's all the best in the bill. Do you, if you're the, if you're the sharks, do you grant permission to talk extension with him?

Yeah, of course. and when in the process and to how many teams like is this something where it's like you have to meet our asking price and then once you do that we will allow you to talk to them and maybe maybe it's not that like i think you have to demonstrate that you're a serious bidder for sure um like you know if i'm the calgary flames and i call up oh we'll give you a third round pick if we can talk no no thank you you know right but if you're if you're if you're the bruce And you're like, look, we got two firsts and a good prospect here for you. And the devils have apparently said like, hey, before you sign off on Tim O'Meer, deal, give us the chance to beat that offer. Right. That's how into it the devils are. It's just same with Caroline.

Yeah. Where you get into the tricky situation is, you know, where a team says, oh, you know, you want a first and a top prospect. Yeah, we might do that. We need to talk to them. and then that conversation happens and they come back and go, ooh, you know, that extension is going to be a little more expensive than we thought. Maybe we can't do the first.

And they now have some leverage over you that you've given that. Versus if you say, here's the asking price. I need you to agree that this is what it costs. And then you talk to me. If you come back and say, we don't want to do it, then we don't do it. but you don't, we're not moving off. Yeah. Like I said, I think, I think that's, that's what I kind of meant by serious better.

Like a team, a team that will be, like, willing to pay basically whatever you're saying, the cost is. And again, with the understanding that you don't come back to us and go, actually, what about a second round pick? Yep. You know, like, again, I think that would be an unserious thing to do if you're in NHL. GM. So, and again, like you said, you could just go, oh, we're not, we're not going to give this guy nine and a half million dollars a year, have a good one, you know? And, and that's where I think the Bruins are so interesting just because I don't think they could sign him for next year, right? They, they still need to lock in that Pastertack deal. So bar, barring, you know, hey, although I, yeah, I did see somewhere where they said that, you know, maybe if, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, Boston gets him, that becomes your insurance policy on Pastornak and or your bargaining chip where David Pastornec can't just name his own price anymore because you go, well, I mean, we can't keep both of you and we want to keep you, but if you're going to go crazy,

then we do have a nice backup plan here ready to go. Yeah. I think the other thing about that is that the Bruins would have to be. like, you know, you got to take like Charlie Coil or Nick Felino off our hands here. Like, yeah, we just got to be able to make the money work. Well, I guess Nick Falino is not signed beyond this year. But it's just tricky for them just because they, they have the cap overage next year, and they have a huge amount of their forward group to, excuse me, resign or whatever.

I don't know. The Bruins are in a tough situation when it comes to, like, getting a guy for next year, unless it's, again, Jacob Chikrin, where you know exactly what the price is and it's rather affordable. Yep. All right, let's move on.

This is the other guy on the sharks that people are talking about here. His name is Eric Carlson. Heard about this guy? I've heard about him. And we had to, I'm trying to say, think if I should say, we had the rumors or the reports,

but there certainly were, it sounded like a deal is more realistic than I've assumed it's been all year. Yeah, and it sounds like the oilers will be, if someone acquires them, it will probably be the oilers. They seem motivated to do so in a way that,

other teams perhaps aren't. And again, this is just like saying what I heard on 32 thoughts earlier this week. But like apparently the, the Oilers like leadership group or whatever basically said, we need another puck moving defenseman. And if that's the case, like who else is out there that does that besides Eric Carlson? Maybe you say John Klingberg if you're really trying to trick yourself. Mm-hmm. And so other-

has been that guy in the past. Has been, sure. It's not good this year, but it's also not like he's 35. I mean, did, do we not look at him as maybe a pretty good player who just went to a garbage team? I mean, the fact that he's been so bad. Yeah. Like saying he's bad is like underselling it, quite frankly. Like, he's been among the ones.

worst players in the league this year. And that happens with a lot of guys, right? Like, that, you know, you go to a bad team. It's a team you've never played for before. And it's like, oh, I am among the worst defensemen in the league because they are putting a lot on me and I'm in like, nobody's set up to, to handle it. Yeah, Klingberg, 9th from the bottom in, in war for defensemen. Ninth from the bottom.

And, like, a lot of the guys below him are, like, Arbor Jack I and Eric Good Branson and David Savard and Jack Johnson, Tony DeAngelo. Like, bad, bad, bad players. Well, I mean, the flyers are surprised that Tony DeAngelo is a bad defensive player. I would love to live in a world where I could be surprised by that kind of thing. Just, you know, in much the same way, like, when people get mad about, like, oh, I can't believe this happened in professional wrestling. Like, I wish that I had a brain where I was just like, damn, I can't believe it. This is crazy. Mm-hmm.

You know? Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, going back to Carlson, is there a scenario where this can work? I mean, just. They would have to take back a lot of money and eat and retain. 35 to 50% of Carlson's money. Which, there's four more years left on this deal. Four years is the problem with that.

So that's tough. I mean, if you're the sharks, you'd like to think you might be good again in four years. You'd like to hope. Boy, so the reports over the weekend were really focused on Edmonton. Yes. And then there have also been some reports saying, no, Edmonton is not really in on this to that extent. So you never know. I mean, how could Edmonton possibly?

They would have to really pull some cap shenanigans, let's say. It sounds like one of the guys that would just have to immediately move out is Tyson Barry, who is totally made redundant by Eric Carlson, and he's worse, and he's like a power play specialist guy, and those guys are important, and their power play is obviously unbelievable, and he's part of that. but he is only signed for two years after or one year after this one I should say now if I if I'm the Oilers I'm going like what do you think of this darnel nurse guy nurse has a no move clause so it's probably a moot point but like does he has it kicked in

his uh yeah his contract is active right now I believe so um so yeah he's not going the guy that you would think of. Boy, I'd be, I'd be like, you want this guy, right? Again, I don't remember who it was earlier this year, but somebody chirped him with like $9 million a year and you don't do shit out there. Oh, I'd hate to hear that. That is a rough one. Oh, you know what? Maybe I wouldn't, because then I'd have $9 million a year coming to me for a next seven or eight. Yeah, that would help. I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't

know if you saw the the Toronto media was having a week when they weren't they hold on when they did that be right yeah well but and this was like it was like a reunion show because it was like all the old old voices from 10 years ago jumping in because we had you had damien cox saying that the leaf should fire shelton keef and replaced with bruce budro who i'm assuming i haven't looked but i'm assuming has a reputation for winning game sevens in the playoffs is that his thing okay uh and then uh our old buddy howard burger uh wants the leifs wow now there's a fucking name there's a name right uh he's he's he's not actively working in media anymore but he does have a blog and he uh for i think the second time in a little while had pitched

the idea that the leaves need to go get eric carlson um and i know you're like well they don't have the cap room but they do after they trade mitch marner straight up for Carlson. That's the move. Wow. So I don't know. I mean, could Boudreau get the most out of Carlson down the stretch? Probably.

So, you know, it's... Two great tastes that go great together. Something worth thinking about is... Yeah. Yeah. The two things that the Leafs have been missing, coaches who can't win game sevens and dynamic offensive players who aren't good in their own end.

That's, I think what we've all identified. as the issue. Yeah. The other guy, I guess you should say about Edmonton, though, is yes, a Poole-Y-R-V would be like the Sharks Reclamation Project in addition to the picks. And, yeah, I mean, but that's... But again, they would have to move money. It gives you an idea how big the Eric Carlson contract is that, like,

Poo-Yarvey, a guy that all year we've been like, yeah, you've got to move him. You've got to get rid of that big $3 million contract. And in the context of this deal, it's like, yeah, but it's only $3 million. I mean, what that... Yeah, it's a drop in the bottom. barely gets you anywhere. Yeah, it's tough. You know, one of my favorite players of all time.

I'd love to see him like on a not dead end team for once in my life. But it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. Let's talk about the other big defensemen out there. That's right. Vladislav Russian for Bobby Orr Gavrokov is available. I think Bobby Orr is Canadian for Gavikov at this point. That might be right. How good are the blue jackets at,

setting and manipulating the market. Because they're doing it here. They did it with David Savar. They did it with Nick Folino. Yep. Man. You know, it's funny because, like, I would say, well, it's obviously fucking stupid. But it keeps working, right?

Like, it is Lucy in the football. Like, all you got to do, you give us a first round pick for this guy who, like, kind of sucks. It's going to work out great for you. And there's always one GM going. I'm empty, I'm turning my wallet upside down and shaking everything out of it. That's right. Yep. It's really, it's really crazy.

This guy is bad. Is he the outright bad? Yeah. I didn't know who he was until three months ago, so I'm getting caught up. I got to tell you, understandably so. He, he is not good. And I think it was Jonathan. Willis yesterday was tweeting about, you know, like this guy gets buried.

Like he never leaves his own zone, like zone starts wise. Like he has never started to shift in the offensive zone his entire career, that kind of thing. And they use him as a shutdown guy. But the thing is, so like that is going to put a damper on your on your ability to like drive value, right? Like you can't be a good offensive contributor really if they keep putting you in the defensive zone. but with that having been said in that role he's been fucking horrible

right like he's a classic guy he's like Jack Johnson where it's like oh he's our shutdown guy oh does he shut down anybody well no I mean of course not Of course look at who he's playing against It would be crazy right Yeah but so like that's so like Could Gavrikov be a better player on a team that's like

not going to be like, yeah, you've got to stop Connor McDavid. Good luck, you know, and maybe he could be. He's had good seasons in the past in like 2019 or whatever. But yeah, the idea that this guy is going to like make a difference for you and be worth reported this morning a first and a third round pick, what are we talking about? That's crazy. I'm again like like last year with like Ben Chirot I'm nervous to get too far into this because there's a non-zero chance to leave so be the sucker and then I'll have to talk myself into it. Yeah and you'll be going one though that for that unprotected first we just gave up in next year's draft. Yeah.

That's actually great. But no, the guy is good. His dad played for the, oh no way, that was the other guy that we got from Columbus. that did nothing. Worked out great. Well, I guess what you're forgetting about that is he had an old Leafs hat for when he was a kid. Fair enough. Fair enough.

If you owned Maple Leafs merchandise as a kid and or you ever played for the Sue Greyhounds, come aboard. Leaf for life, yeah. No, I just absolutely wouldn't want to be getting involved with this player at all. Like, again, you'd be taking a huge. huge gamble that this guy can do anything for you and all it would cost you is two picks. What? No thanks. Again, you're right.

This is brilliant shit from Kekelein because we've been talking about this guy that no one's ever heard of for five minutes now. I love it, man. I had a piece last week where I was like, this happens every year or two where somebody who's just, you know, in arguably not great. and maybe even bad becomes the darling of the trade deadline and almost immediately

we're all looking back going what the hell was that all about why did somebody give up a first round pick for Paul Gostad but it happens so here we go all right let's move on to

let's move on to the other guys who stink Patrick Kane and Jonathan Taves oh do you not think Patrick Kane's good it hasn't no it's interesting yeah No, but like, it's interesting because he's still doing the thing of, you know, I might decide, I'm going to decide in the next week or two here. Yeah. Whether I want to get traded.

And it's like, brother, I saw you crying that the Rangers didn't trade for you. Maybe the Rangers. I know your ass wants to get traded. Maybe the Rangers were the team that he wanted to go to, right? And now he can. Maybe not now. Yeah. Now he turns it around and says, yeah, you know what, I'm a Black Hawk for life, even though he absolutely would have gone to New York.

it really feels to me like even two months ago I thought absolute sure thing that he gets traded barring injury or something like that it doesn't feel like it's 100% anymore I don't know what the number I feel like he must have thought the Rangers were a sure thing well obviously he should have like not interested I wonder do you think like

I wonder if the rain I'd love to know if the Rangers circled back or if maybe Teresenko was just higher up their list of options than Patrick Kane was. But, you know, where if they went back to Chicago and said, we've got somebody else who are ready to move, we need to know, and just didn't get an answer in time.

Yeah, and I think the other thing is, like, financially it just makes a lot more sense for the Rangers to get a guy, I don't remember, what, did they retain half his salary, something like that, St. Louis did? Uh, there was some, there was some. There was definitely salary retention, but, but, you know, again, this, this was the thing where the Rangers, if they circle back on Patrick Kane, would need to probably find a third team to hop in here and either, uh, or probably get like the, the, the, somebody to take a bad contract back in addition to all that.

Just because like, you know, Patrick Kane makes so much fucking money against the cap. Yep. Yeah, I mean, and I think if you're Chicago, you're happy to take the 50% and you're happy to try to facilitate a 50% on top of that with a third team. But, yeah, it's looking less and less like there's going to be a windfall here for Chicago, which is frustrating because this was a big part of the rebuild plan. And it's not, well, it's not, you know, the idea isn't dead yet, but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. It's no longer looking like if like again like last summer when it became very clear what Chicago was doing. I remember thinking like man, they're going to own the trade deadline with Kane and Taves.

Even if those guys don't have great seasons because they've got the rings, Taves is the great leader, all of this stuff. But they've had less than not great seasons. Oh, for sure. And then the other thing is like they've got all these other guys, Max Domey, Jake McCabe, like guys that, you know, in theory are looking like. they could be pretty readily available. He's kind of becoming the North American Gavrikov.

For sure. But the difference with him is at least he's signed for another two years after this one. And again, if you get Chicago to eat some money, Jake McCabe at two and a half million, three million, even two million, you're like, oh, yeah, I can talk myself into that, you know. But, yeah, it's just really interesting just because, yeah, like you said, Chicago kind of feels like they've had the rug pulled out from under him, not only with Kane's destination of choice, let's say, uh,

being like, uh, we're, we're actually going to get a guy who's good instead. But also like the Jonathan Tave's illness where like, who knows if he's even going to be able to play before the deadline. Yep. Doesn't seem like anybody has a really good,

uh, clear picture of that. And obviously he's had health issues before this. So. And when I say health, I mean like, illness-related health, not like you've been injured a lot or whatever.

That whole situation was... Yeah, scary. A scary one. And yeah, and look, I mean, if whether it's injury, health, whatever, if a player physically can't be moved, then that's... I mean, that's just... How she goes, right?

And unfortunately, that's the risk that you take. But yeah, I don't know. he's uh you've heard very little about him at least i you know that's my sense Patrick Kane you hear a lot daves yeah not much Lebrun Lebrun said this morning like

Patrick Kane and Jonathan Taves will make their decision in the next week week and a half or whatever and it's like oh yeah Jonathan Taves is a guy that that needs to get moved maybe um really uh as you say kind of a nightmare scenario for Chicago where it's like, oh, yeah, we're going to be one of the, like, go-to teams at the deadline,

and now it's like, can we interest you in Andreas Athanas, see you? Please? Yep. It's tough. But it'll all be fine when they win the lottery. That's right. Two more guys here, both on the St. Louis Blues. Ryan O'Reilly, again, we just kind of haven't heard a lot about the market for him in the last little while.

And then Ivan Barbashev, who apparently is. is worth either a first or a second and a third, depending on how you want to read the tweet that said that's what the asking price is. I remember it being confusingly phrased. I have a hard time seeing that happening. Ryan O'Reilly, I do. I mean, I think for a lot of the reasons I thought with Taves,

I mean, again, this is exactly the sort of guy where NHLGMs talk themselves into him having more value than his simple performance would. For sure. Yeah. So he's a Kahn-Smith winner, all that shit. Cod-Smith winner, a leader, knows how to, you know, in the playoffs and all that. And the Blues traded for him and look, they turn around and win a cup.

Again, having a bad year. But what's interesting is much of that bad year is because he isn't making a difference on, or hasn't been making a difference on the Blues power play, which if memory serves is just like, kind of not very good all year. And he's a financial, I look at it. He's 32.

He's not, he's not young, but he's not, you know, you, you can talk yourself into renting a 32-year-old without feeling like he's.

For sure. But yeah, Ryan O'Reilly, it looks like, has two power play points this year. Okay. And obviously only 18 points in 39 games total.

So like, that's not good. But I think you can kind of talk yourself into it. The question will be, like, A, do you trade for Ryan O'Reilly to make him like your third center? I don't know that you do. And also, if you do, what is that worth to you? Because Ryan O'Reilly, the player, like, as a brand name player, is probably worth a lot more than, like, what you would normally expect to pay for a third line center. Yeah.

And is that worth it to you? I don't know. Because, yeah, it is. It's tough, right? Because he feels like he would be a fantastic third-line center on a contender. Sure. But he's going to be expensive for a third-line center. It sort of feels like if he's your number two center, maybe you're not a contender.

But doesn't he have to be at the price? And we should say there have been consistent reports out of St. Louis that an extension is not off the table. So, again, not a sure thing to move. They should Keith Kachukham on that one. Yeah, go to Carolina, go wherever, and then why don't you come back to your old friends in St. Louis? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So, yeah, I guess that's all the big names. And I wrote about this this week. I feel like, you know, the way we just talked about, all but two of those guys, that's some real buyer beware shit. Like, if we're talking about Ivan Barbashev being like a guy, who might be worth two draft picks, it's like, boy, this draft is going to be,

or this deadline is going to be quiet. I just don't think a lot of teams are dumb enough to make these kind of transactions, you know? Some teams will definitely talk themselves into it, and obviously Myers is going to get moved and all that, but yikes. I don't know. All right, let's move on to talk about ESPN,

talk to I think 10 executives and players about the best players at every position and then always good absolutely always good

number one with a bullet apparently as usual Andre Vasilevsky hard to argue right I mean

well Well, yes, and like I totally get, I totally get why, right? But has he been, like, and he's had a good year, but like, has he been that much better than Sorokin or Hellebuck or who, you know, these guys. But I mean, this isn't, here's the best goalies this season. This is sort of who are the best goalies? Sure. of right now, which I know that sounds like the same statement, but, you know, it sort of recognizes that, I mean, I almost view this as kind of contracts aside, we're drafting goalies right now.

Who do you think goes where? And I think Vazolevsky, he's been so consistent over the years. Sure. I think, you know, I, I'm, maybe the fact that he, the margin was a little bit, the gap was a bit bigger than I would have thought, but I can't argue. with him as number one. Yeah, no, it's just a situation where, and I've said this before, like, obviously you win back to backups, you go to four finals in five years or whatever it is. Like, you're having a lot of success, but like, boy, you put Sorokin or Hellabuck on that

lightning team. It's like, do they ever allow a goal? You know, like, the way those guys have had their last few seasons go. And Shisurkin, I guess, is also. a guy you would put in that list. But yeah, it's, you got to hand it to him. The guy wins a lot of fucking hockey games. And is good doing it.

This isn't a Chris Osgood situation, right? Yeah. And is, you know, consistently healthy, carries the big load. Like, you know, nobody even ever knows who the lightning backup is. Kind of old school that way. And it's by design, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

So, yeah. Hard to argue, although, again, like you say, I was just like, it's like that decisive that, okay, again, feels like a little hockey man brained, but I get it. Then next up is Igor Shusirkin started, I would say, not well this season. I think that's kind of like inarguable that he started not well, but he is turned back into, he's really him, though, you know? by the end of the season I fully expect him to be in the conversation for

maybe not the Vesna but like a guy getting plenty of votes for the Vesna. And I mean, was so phenomenal last year. Unbelievable. Youngish for a goalie.

Yeah. Yeah. Then you got Connor Halebuck where, you know, I feel, if I'm remembering, right, he wasn't particularly great last year on a Jets team that wasn't any good at all.

But inarguably, I think him being third ahead of Sorokin is kind of the acknowledgement like, yeah, look, I mean, if you put this guy on an actual good team, we're having a whole different conversation about who's even two. But things are how they are. I can't, you know, I can't argue with Hella Buck being third either. I guess the broad point is this whole list is like pretty good honestly. You might quibble with one or two things, but. Yeah, if you're hitting this list looking to like be completely outraged.

This isn't like when they would have carry price in there and you're like, well, he has like an 8.72 say percentage. You're right. Like the absence of carry price really is profoundly felt in this. There's only two that I'm like at three, I guess, that I'm like, actually surprised by. So we'll round out the top five here. Sorokin and Ottinger. Audinger's a mild surprise just because the track. A head of sorrows just because of... Yeah.

Yeah. But like, you can't argue with what the guy's done the last couple of years. And obviously he had that great playoff last year too, right? So, but like I think it's fair to say Sorokin has been the best goalie in the league over the last two years. But he's been doing it on the Islanders, a team that has like steadfastly refused to help him. in any way. So, you know, that's, that's just how it is. I don't, again, I'd have a Sorokin hire, but again, like, am I bumping Shusurkin who won the fucking Vesna on a walk last year?

Like, can I bump him out of the top three? Or Hela Bucke, who won the Vesna two years ago? I don't know, you know. So, yeah, then Sauros, a guy who, again, like, the team's just letting him down and that kind of stuff. and totally deserves it. Allmark is a little bit of a surprise, but like what can you,

this year, I mean, Jesus Christ. It's, it's always going to be hard to properly evaluate guys having phenomenal years that feel like outliers, but maybe aren't, you know,

it's, and if you're going to pick a guy who said one good year, this is, boy, oh boy, this year versus, yeah, and then, you know,

not picking a guy from three years ago, not to go back to Carrie Price thing, but, uh, How about this? I wouldn't have guessed this. Linus Allmark, 915, 917, 937. That's like consistently just a very good goalie.

Doing that in Buffalo, too. Yeah, that's right. Well, one of the 917 last year was his first year with the Bruins. But yeah, no, he's just like a consistently good goalie who's having a phenomenal, like, all-timer of a year, quite frankly. So I got nothing bad to say about Linus Allmark. Again, except that like, I'm surprised everybody was that willing to put him ahead of some of the other guys on this list. I guess I'll say that. Next up is Jacob Markstrom.

Inarguably should not be on this list. Well, I mean, this is the flip side of Allmark kind of, right? This is a guy who has been very good for years who stinks out loud this year. Yeah. And he was a Vezna-ish. guy, he's finished second in the Vesna voting last year. Yeah. But, yeah.

So, I mean, let's put it this way. This is a guy who finished second in Vesna voting last year in the last 142 games over the last three seasons. Since he got to Calgary, 9-09, which is like fine on the balance, but not, you know, seventh, the eighth best goalie in the league good. rounding out the top 10 you had John Gibson that's the one weird but that's a blast from the past huh folks I mean at some point

like how many years now has it been what was his last year that he was good three four years I would say pre COVID for sure so this is kind of and when you read the the quotes in here I mean it's very clear this is

this is like the seen him good thinking this is these GMs or whoever convinced that, yeah, but when I watched him, he looked great. He gave up five goals, but he looked great. Yeah. Last four years, I was right, 1819, he was a 917 goalie. That's great. That's really solid. Tenth in the Vesna voting that year. And then... So we're into year four of him. This is year four. 902 over his last 179 games. Not going to get it done, my opinion. Then the last guy on the top 10, Carter Hart.

Totally get it. That's fine. Like the player. He's having a nice year on a horrible. It was bad a couple years ago and has rebounded nicely. I mean, I think if you asked, if you hooked flyer fans up to a lie detector when he broke in, he's not where they were hoping he would be. But he's been fine the last couple years.

Yeah, he seems like a guy where COVID just like fucked his life up, honestly. Could be. And also playing for the Flyers has not helped. Yeah. So COVID and the Flyers, a real one-two punch on Carter Hart's career. But again, he's having a really nice year for himself. I think, let's see, where he is. He's seventh in the league in G-Sax right now.

Can't really ask for anything better than that. You know? And he plays a huge chunk of their games. So he's not like even Olmark where it's like, yeah, you know, he was splitting time last year. He wasn't really. He just plays a lot. And then the honorable mentions,

four guys got named as honorable mentions. Dr. Demko, which I get it, but okay. Freddie Anderson. Okay, sure. Logan Thompson. What are we?

What? Logan Thompson, someone was like, I think he's one of the ten basketballes in the league. Early in the season, he was a really good story. He has not been great. I'm just more thinking of it from the point of view of like,

this guy has like 15 NHL games in his career. What are you talking about? You know, he's a 9-14 career goalie, and that's what he is, that's what he had last year and this year. So that's really good. The league average is like 900, so like to be 9-14, that's well above average, you know?

But like, let's let this guy get to 60 career games before we put him in the top 10. What do you say? And then Darcy Kemper is the last guy. That's a congratulations on winning the Stanley Cup award. Yeah. Yeah, Kemper's fun because he was like the underrated guy in Arizona and then became the guy who won the cup and was overrated.

Yeah. Yeah, it did anything jump out to you among names that were just not mentioned anywhere? So not in the top 10, not in the honorable mentions. I mean, the big one is Bobrovsky just because he's the highest paid goalie in the league. Not surprising that he's not in there. Not surprising, but I mean, whoof, right? Like, not to even be mentioned by anyone. Nope, no.

And then. I'm trying to think, is there, I don't, I feel like if you were putting together a list of like the 15 or how 14, I guess, best goalies in the league. The only guy I'd really, like, swap in any, I don't think he'd be in my top 10. But again, I like him a lot. as Carol Vemelka. Yep. Right? Take out,

take out Gibson maybe. And take out Gibson. Yeah. That's an easy call for me. And then who else? I guess the other interesting one is, is flurried not being mentioned anywhere. Again, not surprising, but just as a guy that even a couple years ago was very, very good. I don't think we have to pretend anymore, you know?

No, apparently we don't. It is interesting, though. He's not having a good year this year either. Like, Devils. Maple Leafs, Avalanche, I guess not Vegas, but,

and Edmonton would be, I think most people would consider reasonably strong contenders that are not on this list at all. And then obviously some of the stronger contenders are very high up this list.

Let me ask you this. If Robin Lainer was healthy this year and having the kind of year that, you know, I think we all think Robin Lainer is capable of behind that team. Let's say he's just putting up Logan Thompson numbers.

914. Yep. Feels like he'd be in the, at least be an honorable mention, right? Feels like you could get a mention in there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's the only other guy that I'd be like,

oh, like, again, if he was totally healthy. You know what? So your buddy Jordan Binnington not mentioned, so. Well, it could be one of the 10 best goals in the age, I'll by the end of the season. It could be. You never know what? Now that I say that, you know, who was an NHL All-Star this year didn't get any love?

It's Stu Skinner. Yep. That's right. He's having a nice year. That's all they need him to have and he's having it. And he was an All-Star this year. So, like, good for, that's a guy I think can be really good. I think the All-Star selection was a bit premature.

Obviously, just needed a second goalie. Numbers game. Yeah, for sure. But that's a guy that I have a lot of time for, a year. year or two from now, for sure. So, yeah. Other than that, this is a perfectly good list. And again, like, let's wait till, like, Patrick Kane's, like, fourth on the, on the winger list or whatever, and it's like, now hold on, you know?

But anyway, let's wrap it up this week, talking about the nasty Dustin Brown statue. All right. You lead the way on this one, because I got, I got yelled at by all the King's fans at the beginning. beginning of the year, um, very, very much for making fun of the Dustin Brown statue that I hadn't seen yet, but just the fact that there even was one.

I have seen it now. Yes. But you go ahead. Well, no, I, you know what? I was talking about this, uh, the other night at the bean pot because there was a,

uh, I don't know, whatever, we were just shooting the shit. And, uh, someone was like, oh,

did you see the Dustin Brown statue? And the thing I wanted to talk about. and putting this on the list is the statue looks like Alexander Ovechkin. Okay. It's an unbelievably bad statue in terms of... I was going to say William DeFoe in the lighthouse. Yeah, that's...

And then someone pointed out he's wearing hockey gloves while lifting the cup. Okay. Good. Good attention to detail. You don't want that. You don't want that to happen. No. But no, I have really come around on...

Look, we talked about it on the show, I'm sure. that like, you know, you're putting up statues of whatever, Wilk Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wayne Gretzky. And then, you know what, I'm looking at the statue. I don't think he is wearing hockey gloves. I think he has like wrist tape on or something like that. They're not as bulky as you would expect. You're going to make me look this up, but all right.

I am going to make you look it up. But I'm going to defend the sculptor in this instance and say those aren't hockey gloves. Those are, because they're like the same color as his skin also. Yeah. But he does have wrist tape on. So there you go. But anyway, I am now fully on board with retire whoever's number you want. Build a statue for whoever you fucking want.

I don't give a shit. That's not, it's none of my business. Like I remember getting all up in arms when the, when the Rangers were like, we're retiring Adam Graves' number. And I was like, you can't be serious here, right? And then they did it, you know? But I have definitely softened on that kind of thing in my old age where I'm just like, you know what, retire whatever fucking Bum's number you want. If you liked them, go with God, you know?

But again, like if you're putting him out, I remember I found a list of statues outside Staples Center. And it's, well, I guess it's crypto.com arena now. But it is, Shaq has one. Elgin Baylor, who's one of the great basketball players of all time. I believe Wilts Chamberlain and Kareem have them. Kobe's going to get one at some point. Yes, but doesn't have one yet, which seems to be something that bothers. a lot of people about the Dustin Brown statue.

Yeah, Lisa Leslie, you know, like just go down the list, right? And then it's like, and then also here's Dustin Brown. Right. It's tough. It's a tough one for sure. So I'm with you. You know what? Have the statue or whoever you want.

Have multiple Dustin Brown statues because they already had like this kind of collage thing. Yeah. Have retired numbers, but. I let's make a deal. I won't make fun of any of that if you promise that we're not going to do this. Is Dustin Brown a Hall of Famer? Oh my God.

Okay? As long as you promise we're not doing that, I will, I will be fine with you just doing whatever you want on the statues side. Because again, I'm a Leafs fan, man. They win a Stanley Cup. We're building statues of everybody. Right.

everyone who worked for the team is going to be there. It's going to be. Yeah, Magic Johnson, Wayne Gretzky, Shaquille O'Neill, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dustin Brown. Some other guys probably. Oscar de La Jolla, there's a guy who has a statue there. Good boxer in his day, I guess. But yeah, just really, really funny that that's how it would be. And again, especially the fact that it's a statue of Alex Ovechkin wearing a king's jersey.

Yeah. After contracting a bad case of jaundice. That's right. One of my favorite Calvin and Hobbs jokes is Calvin is like trying to make counterfeit money. And Hobbs just goes, old George has the gout I see. And that's what the Dustin Brown statue looks. like is... Okay.

Yeah, he has the gout or whatever. But other than that, I think we're done here. Why don't you hit him, Sean, with some plugs? Find me on the Athletic. I have a post up just today on some ideas for ways that we could juice the NHL trade market. If you feel like that is something that you would like to see, if you're one of the, I believe many fans who kind of bemoan the death of the blockbuster and we just saw the NBA have its deadline, which was wild.

All sorts of huge stars moving, including one of the best players of his generation getting traded overnight. They just figured out how to make the deal work overnight. If you would like to see more of that in the NHL, I've got seven ideas, sort of an increasing ridiculousness of how we could get there, including reviving my classic magic draft pick idea. from the ESPN day. So you can check that out. And I'll be on with Ian Mendez tomorrow. He is back after being temporary replaced by Julian last week.

So hopefully Ian's ready to bring it. All right. And then for me, E.P.Ringside.com. Same stuff as usual there, but I also went to the beanpot this week and wrote about all the good players that got drafted. by your favorite team. Does your favorite team have a

have a player in the bean pot? Well, click on the thing and you'll find out. And I probably said, that guy's really good. I named like 15 players on four different teams. So yeah, check it, check all that out. Use the code I Love EP. When you buy an annual subscription,

you'll get three months for free, so that's 15 months total for the cost of 12. And then go over to the PuckSoup Patreon. on Patreon.com slash pox soup bonus episodes of all kinds of different podcasts. And yeah, you know the drill by now. Check all that out. And thanks for listening. And we'll talk to you next week.

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