Puck Soup - Rage Against (Russian) Machine

Episode Date: February 7, 2020

The boys discuss Alex Ovechkin's goal-scoring spree/Gretzky chase, the Buffalo Sabres' mess, surging Lightning, the Jack Campbell trade, Rage Against the Machine's legacy, and an awesome Oscars quiz that somehow incorporates both Leonardo DiCaprio and Beetlejuice.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wischinski, VSPN. Parts to the XFL. I'm Ryan Lambert from this podcast only. Well, that's not true.

I agree with the athletic. That's not true. It's not true. Very occasionally for Pass to Bullish. That's right. So there's that also. That's right. I was excited to see that.

That's exciting. You're in Pucks, too. I was also excited to see the reason why we were starting the podcast about a half an hour late today. It's because Ryan Lambert needed to get Rage Against the Machine tickets. And I'm interested by this because while I believe I understand the political connections between when Ryan Lambert and Rage Against the Machine, I was surprised to see a band so, shall we say, formerly mainstream in your wheelhouse? Well, I mean, like, I fucking like Metallica.

I mean, you know, like, but it's definitely a thing of, I never saw rage against the machine when I was a child, or, you know, 15, 16, 17. And so, like, this is my opportunity to see rage against the machine. And granted, it's at the ball. Austin Calling Music Festival, which sucks, generally speaking. Why does it suck? It is at Harvard, like, they're big athletic complex.

Do you pock the car and the yard? Good one. To go there? And, like, it just really, like, it's, first of all, it is insanely expensive. To see, to go to one day of this festival with, you know, know, service fees and mailing the tickets to us, which is the only way we can get them. 183 bucks a pop. Wow.

Which is insane. And that's just for like a festival, it's insane. Yeah. Like if it was all three days, that would be fine. That would even be. I was going to say like one day of a festival. That's insane. Yes.

And it's for one day. And I was looking at the ticket prices. And if you get the platinum VIP three day package, What do you think that runs you for the three days? I'm going to say like $1,000. You're going to want to double that number. Oh, my God. Yeah.

I will say this. If you are paying $2,000 to go to all three days of a festival, like the second you click, you know, accept that charge or whatever, people should come into your house and just take everything you own. You don't, you don't deserve to have as much as you do. if you're spending $2,000 to see other days headline by the Foo Fighters and Red Hot Chili Peppers. Oh, nice. No, those, I mean,

Foo Farters is fine. Red Hot Chili Peppers, embarrassing. The thing about rage was always that, listen, they're cool. I'm 100% the guy who will crank up his,

I guess it's now an oldies station. It used to be like an alternative station, but let's face it. It's an oldie station if they're playing grunge. Like, grunge to us is now like my dad putting on the Shirelles when I was a kid. I will definitely crank up guerrilla radio when it comes on. And I do like Bulls on Parade. And I do love that moment in The Matrix at the end when Bomb Track comes on and Neo flies away.

But there's always going to be a part of me that resents, and this is by no means their fault. This is almost like, to bring up the Matrix again, the movie made somebody. kill somebody in real life. I will always resent the fact that they were the spark that lit the fuse that exploded into new metal. I mean, that's kind of what it is, right? I mean, I'm not totally sure. I mean, look, we can get into my thoughts on the spawn soundtrack another time, but I think the spawn soundtrack is really, I'm dead serious. The spawn soundtrack, because it had that filter in the crystal method song. It had a couple other songs that, like, were mainstream successes that you don't normally see from soundtracks. And I think that really, that really made it like, okay, now you got

corn. Now you, like, look, I think the deaf tones were probably the original new metal band, and they started in like 1990. So, you know, but I think it really became mainstream, you know, with the popularity of the spawn soundtrack for some reason. I always thought that Limp Biscuit was like the Fun House Mirror version of Rage, and I didn't like that, but I did like the fact that Rage inspired, helped inspire Ben's Folds, rock in the suburbs, which is a great track. Sean, your take on new metal and or rage against the machine.

You know what? Rage Against the Machine, I really, really liked the one song that they did and then re-recorded 30 times. And I mean that sincerely, actually. I really do. You know, every time A Rage Against the Machine song comes on, I'm like, oh, it's the rage against the machine song. And I crank it up and I enjoy it.

But, yeah, it's, I would agree that a lot of what came after was not good. Although, like, 2000 Me probably had way too much of that crap on my, I was going to say, iPod. I probably didn't have an iPod back then. My crappy line wire playlist. Your disc man or what have you. Yeah. Yeah, my man was you firing up a win-amp playlist and just... Yeah.

I probably had an extensive collection of that really bad stuff. But I'm proud to say that now that I'm older and wiser, like 60% of that is probably gone. And the rest of it is. Yeah, I definitely downloaded some rage against the machine on Kazah while I was searching for part 7 of 10 of that porn that I could never find on Kazah. I will say this, by the way, about bands who have one song that more or less sounds the same. I agree. There's not much difference between, like, bomb track and bulls-on parade or whatever, just in terms of, you know, sonically. But, like, ACDC has spent 50 years recording the same one song, and ACDC fucking whips ass.

So that's a great point. And when Sean was saying that, my thoughts went back to, I saw the Ramones in college. on like one of their last tours. And I remember being at that concert and realizing it's the same song broken up by Joey going, you know, one, two, three, four. And then it's a new song. And that's cool. The Ramones kick ass.

Yeah. And you're there. You're like, this is all the same song, but it's a great fucking song. It's like, you know, it's like if stairway to heaven was just, you know, like a three-hour song, basically. It was great. I have no issue with that sort of vibe. Yeah, and then you get, like, the alternative, which is my favorite band Guns and Roses,

where the same song isn't even the same song. They just halfway through. They're like, we're just going to have a different song for the last... Did I ever tell you guys my Bob Dylan story the last time I will ever see Bob Dylan? No, go ahead. Bob Dylan famously not really trying on a lot of his tours and say the entirety of the 21st century. I respect it. Yeah, no.

Like, why should Bob Dylan give a shit? I think it's fine. Um, but so we, uh, there was something where he played with like, uh, my morning jacket, Wilco, maybe one or two other bands, like on a big tour. And it's like, oh, that, you know, that's worth going to me or why not? Yeah. Me going to. Yeah.

Um, and, uh, so we sit through just a truly wretched set, right? Like, just really like, what the fuck is this? And he comes back out. Incomprehensible mumble words. And again, like, you know, if you've been playing fucking whatever all along the watchtower since 1964, you get to not care about all along the watchtower anymore. I think that's fine. But we're sitting there. We're watching the encore.

And me and my friends are like, this is the encore. I do not recognize this song like at all. And like three quarters of the way through it, I was like, holy shit, this is blowing in the wind. Like, this is like the Bob Dylan song. And it is utterly incomprehensible. Last thing on music, Sean, you mentioned you're a Guns and Roses fan. I was always sort of a Guns and Roses fan. I think everybody of a certain age appreciated the band.

But what was it like when they made the song that had the dolphins in the video? Like when it went from being appetite for destruction to the other kind of music on Use Your Illusion, Parts 1 and 2. Well, it was, it was strange because, like, Appetite is right up on the top of the list of the greatest debut albums ever. Like, it's a, it's a near-perfect, like, rock album. And it came along at a time when rock was like all these hair bands and, you know, glam rock. And Guns and Roses had an element of that. But then they come in with this kind of more bluesy, like, you know, real sound to it. And then, yeah, and then they go away for a couple years and don't, like, patience comes out and there's, there's, like, cover songs, but they don't do, like, a real full follow-up album.

And then they do two albums at the same time where Axel gets to go, like, to break out his Elton John side. Which is what it was. And it's weird, because at the time, people are like, what is it? Like, some people liked it. Obviously, it was, you know, it's a huge hit. It's the only time, I think, to this day, any artist has ever had the top two albums. albums on the billboard list at the same time. And, but a lot of people were like, oh, this is, you know, this sucks.

They've sold out. They've done whatever. But whereas now you look back and it's kind of like, yeah, what if like a super awesome hard rock band like incorporated kind of like Elton John Bowie type stuff in it? And it was sort of neat. And, you know, and we're all like, ah, I'm sure the next album would be great. And then. Nope.

The end. Yeah. The end because... Are you going to their big stadium tour this summer? They're doing a big stadium tour. I haven't... They came to Ottawa last summer and I wasn't in town. I totally would have gone.

I saw the fake Guns and Roses in concert in Ottawa in like 2006 when it was Axel and... The one with Buckethead and miscellaneous guys. Including one of the replacements who was actually from the replacements, which I thought was a pretty... Pretty bang-on. That's right. And you know what? I'm saying, it was a good show. Like, I had a good time that night.

I've heard that the stadium show is really good right now. And I'll even say, like, here's my hot controversial music take. Chinese democracy. Here it is. Not actually a bad album. Not bad. Not appetite. It's not appetite, and it's not worth waiting 14 years for.

But if you just set all that aside and just listen, it's actually pretty good. two things on that first I'm reading this oral history of grunge and it's amazing because it starts really early like it starts like in the mid-80s and stuff with some bands that were in Seattle

at the time and it's amazing how many people that were in the Seattle scene shit all over Duff McCagan for leaving for L.A. to join Guns and Roses they're like this is stupid the guy's name's Axel that shit's never going to work and then like two years later

it's everybody from Seattle going down to L.A. and trying to join Guns and Roses Influenced bands. It's fucking amazing. And the other thing is, speaking of the Matrix Rage Against the Machine combination, I will never be able to watch

Terminator 2 without thinking of you could be mine from G&R. I really miss the days of there being a fucking killer track, acting as the calling card for a movie. You know, like the video.

own video where like the star of the movie shows up, but it's not just scenes from the movie. It's like, yeah, that was. It was as effective as any trailer today, like, to have, like, an awesome music video with clips from the movie that you want to go see. Like, even that pumpkin song from Batman and Robin. Maybe you want to go see the fucking Batman and Robin movie. Yeah, except freaking MTV. Why are they even called music television anymore, right?

I mean, they're never showing freaking music on there. And this is what I'm always saying to people. The minute, the minute. they got rid of Tabitha Sword and Gideon Yego. Real news people is when the whole house of cards fell down. Anyway, that's the podcast. So, let's talk about the Buffalo Sabres for a second,

because they lost last night to Detroit. And I guess we should start with an old friend. Did you guys see the Mike Harrington clip with Sam Ryan Hart? Yeah, fucking awesome. It was so cool. So, for those who didn't see, see it. Mike Harrington goes into the Sabres locker room after the game, as he is want to do. He is, of course, a beat reporter. And he asks Sam Reinhardt after his, again, his team lost to a team on an historic point space of being one of the worst fucking pieces of shit in, in recent memory level of teams. The Detroit Redwood. Yes.

And he's asking about a goal that was scored at the end of the second piece. period, where if you watch the replay, Detroit comes down on an odd man rush. Reinhardt kind of lollygags his way back into the neutral zone, and then Detroit scores. So Harrington gets up in there, and Reinhardt's scrum and said, you're on that goal, I couldn't help but notice you didn't back check. Why didn't you back check? Where I wasn't the effort dared to back check. And then Reinhart, God bless him, his response to this is the classic.

I'm not going to value that question right now. And then he gets asked again and says, I'm not going to value that question right now. Then he gets asked like a third time and says, I'm not going to value that question right now. And basically says, you know, next question. Yes. It was one of those moments that definitely gave people ample fodder

to say that we're all a bunch of assholes. Yeah. Well, so like during the game, somebody asked Harrington, like, what do you think the problem with this team is? Is it one, a lack of talent or two, a lack of effort? And Harrington said two. Yeah.

He didn't say one and two. He didn't say, like he didn't say any, he just said the problem with this team is that they're not trying hard, which, okay, man, sure. That's our analysis for every team that's not doing well. I mean, I've said it a million times, right? But it's a situation where it's like when you score goals and or prevent goals, like, like if you have a high save percentage or a high shooting percentage,

you attribute that to doing the right things. And when you don't have those things, you attribute that to getting away from your game and not trying hard and shit like that. Right. And, you know, we know full well that this is a mostly random, not mostly, but like a highly influenced by random events kind of a sport. Right.

And like in the Pittsburgh game last night, there was like a triple deflection on the first Tampa goal. And you go, okay, well, you know, what are you supposed to do if you're the goalie? And the answer is, you know, the defense has to clear guys out of the front of, like, whatever you want to say. But at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, it hit three guys and went in the net. I don't know. I don't know how you're supposed to stop that. It's a ton of randomness and also like wide disparities in skill level between the players and

the teams. And like, it drives me nuts when we act like there are 700 NHL players of equal skill and whichever collection of 20 of them tries the hardest on any given night is the best team. It just, like, I've, it drives me nuts. I've, I think in the past, I said it's intentionally reductionist. I don't know. It's kindergarten. It's kindergarten thinking. It really is. You can be anything you want if you just try your hardest. And, you know, if you try your very hardest, you will always win. And it's, Like, no, you know what? Sometimes the other guys are just better than you are.

And also sometimes you just, the bounces don't go your way. And those two things add up to things not going well. And I think that's, you know, we're seeing all of this in Buffalo because the effort level does matter. And yeah, I mean, if you were, I mean, if you're on the sabres and you haven't pretty much packed it in at this point, I don't know, maybe you're not paying attention. You're in a contract here. That's the only. Well, yeah, that's it. That's it.

Yeah. Yeah. Hello, Jeff Skinner. So two things on the thing that happened last night. One, I agree with Ryan if this is the point you were trying to make, which is that a lot of people were saying, like, is this journalism? Like, why is he doing this? And if you're being asked by the fans, hey, what happened on this play? You're actually kind of doing your job, right? To be like, hey, I'm going to go use my access to ask the person that did this thing on the play and find out what it is.

Now, did it need to be as combative as it was? Probably not. Was there a simple answer for why it happened? Yeah. It was the end of the second period, and Reinhardt was skating his second longest shift of the game at a minute 45. Yeah. I mean, that's the real problem, right? It's like, that's the thing.

In fact, I would say that's indicative of guys trying too fucking hard. Like, when you don't come off the ice because you're like, oh, the rest of these guys suck shit. I better stay out there for almost two full minutes. like yeah and it's it could have been just like let's let's end the miscommunication here and just say yeah i was at the end of a fucking minute 45 shift after playing an entire period of hockey how's the press box like it could have easily just been that but it had to become something different and and now we have another viral if you look at the sabers over their last few games like they're getting a lot of guys taking long shifts minute plus consistently and it's all you know it's not like they're thursday and fourth line guys. It's their first and second line guys. And that's because they feel like, well, I got to fucking do it myself. And, you know, we've all seen that guy in like, pick up hockey games or whatever, where it's like, you've been out there for four minutes and you're just kind of casually skating past the bench again, maybe come off. Like, yeah.

Yeah. All right. Sean, what would you do for the Sabres right now? I wrote about him a bit this week. The fans are pissed off. There's going to be a protest this Saturday, apparently, at the arena. what is your diagnosis? Do you fire bots as the fans have been chanting? I've got no idea. I really don't. And this is what makes it such a mess. And I think we kind of talked about it last week that there's like there are times where your team is, you know, I remember when the Leafs were bad in like 2013.

And you just looked at it and you were like, we're going to be bad until they get rid of this guy, this guy and this guy. And then maybe, who knows, maybe we'll. will be good at that point. And the Sabres, it's been so long. Like, I don't even know who the problem is. I like the coach. Bauderil's been up and down, but he, I mean, he's been there three years. It's, yeah, you could change GMs again. Uh, but I, then, then what are you doing? Then, you know, if this is under the way it usually goes in the NHL, the new guy comes in and says, oh, I need a year before I can do anything to get the lay of the land and, you know, all this. So you, you can burn another year. And then what are you going to start a rebuild?

you're going to start a five-year plan again. Like, you know, Jack, Jack Eichael is right there. We've been talking for years about Connor McDavid, Connor McDavid, you've got to get him in the playoffs. You've got to, Jack Eichael has barely played an important hockey game in his career. And he's, you know, busting out in an MVP level this season, and it's going to waste. I really have no idea what I would do. I know what I wouldn't do, which is just hire some well-known ex-player,

whether it's Krista or whoever, and put. him in as president and go like, look, you all like him, right? Can't get mad at us if the guy that you like is. Oh, no. Chris Jerry is like cut his teeth now. Yeah, he's a guy that I think, I wouldn't mind if they swapped out bottle roll for Drury, because I think Trurie could be a really good executive. I will say, though, that the idea of like Chris Drury, one of the all-time great, like,

Chris, perfectly good career Drury is one of the all-time greats in that organization. Like, that's part of the fucking problem. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck, man. Actually, now you've got me thinking, Sean, because both Drury and Breyer are now in management. Could you fucking imagine? Could you fucking imagine a double-team dynamic duo come back to Save the Sabres,

re-correct history, Drury and Breyer co-GMs? And then sitting down with Jack Eichol in a few years going, like, Jack, you can't just leave when it gets, you know, what kind of star player would do that? I think Botterl, like what I wrote yesterday, like I think that there's ample evidence that you could make a change if you wanted to. And maybe you don't trust this guy to necessarily manage a roster that has like three-fourths of the roster as free agents this summer. Like they've got a chance to really remake the team. The O'Reilly trade is bad. He didn't get a lot back for Kane. The Scandella thing, he traded a third to get him and a couple players and then got a fourth from Montreal when he flipped them.

Like, there's a lot of things he's not done very well. The Skinner contract in hindsight, while it may turn out to be okay production-wise after what's been a down year, like the fact that he gave him a full no move clause for eight years is fucking insane. So, like, there's a lot of reasons why, especially when you've come into Buffalo as the cap savant from the Penguins, there's a lot of reasons why I think that his tenure there has not been good, but at the end of the day, I kind of agree with you that three years isn't long enough,

and to what end are you getting rid of? Like, it's like, why? Because now you have to reset the clock again. And like you said, now you're just burning more years from Eichols. And that's one side of my brain. And the other side says if you don't make a change this off season, everybody knows that he's dead man walking if next year doesn't go well. So is that just a different way to burn a year if you feel like this isn't the guy you've got real confidence in?

Like it's, it really is, like, I know I'm supposed to sit here and be like, all right, here's what you should do, one, two, three. And that's, that's the plan and act like I know. And there's some teams in this league where I could look and say, here's the steps that I would take. I have no idea what the Sabres should do. I really don't. It is that big of a mess. And it's probably the last thing you want to hear if you're a Sabers fan, but they, they, I don't, I just don't see what the path is. Look, everybody's so freaked out about, oh, we lost by a very narrow margin to,

the worst team in the league. But we saw this week what the game plan is. You just call the NHL and you say, look, we're really important to what you're trying to do. Look at the ratings from Buffalo for every playoff game. They're always good. This is a hockey city. We're really important in the grand scheme of things. So why don't we just pretend?

Like, we won this one. And then we'll go for like three, four days. Hey, we won it. We won it. And everybody in the hockey media and the NHL is going. won that game. So what's the big deal? And then, look, upon closer inspection, we realized

oh, maybe Detroit did actually win, you know, the shootout and all that kind of stuff. When we said victory. Well, it's too late now because everybody's just talked about how good the Sabres were in that game for a week. The problem was, Ryan, was that the official scores at the game

were using a new app to load in who scored the goals. And it became a huge mess. I don't understand why they just don't use. by Rasmus Dahlene. I feel like maybe we're not talking about hockey anymore, but I'm not completely sure. Yeah. You know, this is why they should just have some of the Red Wing stand in one corner under one score and another bunch of the Red Wing stand under the corner. That's pretty much what they're doing.

That seems to be the game plan. Yeah, I've seen their D zone coverage. There's a lot of standing in corners while big stuff happens. A couple other things from last night at one. to bring up. Here come the sharks, baby. Two in a row, sweeping Alberta. Yeah, they're a whopping up 500 in the last 10 games.

I mean, they're only 10 points out of a playoff spot right now. You could feel the electricity. You could feel the thunder. You could feel me trying to will this into existence so I don't have to leave my house in April and just can go see games locally and not have to fly. By the way, that result is so shocking to the Edmonton media after the Oilers went 8, 1, and 2 or whatever the number was, that. Mark Specter tweeted they just weren't trying last night.

There it is again. All together. God. Of course. Never mind that Miko Koskinan had like a 345 GAA at home or some shit this year. Oh, yeah. So that was a thing. Nashville beat Calgary last night.

Flames in trouble, man. They seem like... Flames are deep trouble. And Giordano now week to week is it? Yeah, they said it wasn't as long term as they initially. thought it was going to be, but it's still not good. He's their best defenseman at age 36

or whatever he is, so yikes. Oh, don't look now, by the way, but Vegas took six of a possible eight points on a road trip after the arsar break. I think they're pretty fucking good. I don't know. Yeah, they're kind of getting their

shit together a little bit under DeBoer. And then the other one I wanted to mention was fucking, I mean, Tampa is a goddamn Bullsaw right now. They looked so good last night. They looked really fucking good.

Really entertaining game. Yeah. What are they like four or five points behind Boston at this point? Maybe a little more than that. They have two regulation losses since December 23rd. And Vasilesky's on a 15-0-1 vendor right now. Yeah, he's like 926 since the start of 2020, and he was 9.06. before that was the stat I pulled last night.

Yeah. Maybe we can stop trying to will Darcy Kemper into the top three in the Desmond, like, have a goalie that's playing get in there. It's pretty fucking crazy. He really did. He was bad to start the year. Vasilowski was like, they were all bad. They were all very bad.

They didn't play well. But Vasselowski, they would have won plenty of games of Vasselowski. He didn't even have to be good. He had to be league average, and he wasn't, right? So, you know, like, that definitely costs him some points, but they're making it all up now. So I guess who gives a shit? I just, I love, I love when Tampa's real good. I got to be honest with you.

Like, I love the fact that there's a team that plays the way they play when they're firing on all cylinders. They're fun as shit. It's cool. But so, like, do we think that they're going to overtake Boston ultimately and when the division? Bruins are getting on a bit of a heater again, though. They, they've won a $2.05 and a race. And that's it. The sharks have won five in a row and not gained any ground because the bro I don't know if I can you be like first overall nearly in the league and be underrated? Because I feel like the Bruins are kind of getting into that zone. They were pretty bad for for a little while there. And it was the same problem that the Bruins always have is if the Pasternak, Marshan, Berger online isn't scoring. Nobody's fucking scoring. And so they started scoring again. The depth guys have started scoring again. two, though, in part because I, you know, from what you can kind of read between the lines

and all the coverage lately, Don Sweeney was like, I'll call up half of fucking Providence to do your guy's job. Like, I don't give a shit. You guys suck. And like, that seems to have worked. Like, there are a bunch of guys that it's like, okay, I better, you know, like depth guys who are like, oh, I better start fucking not playing badly or I'm going to lose my job. I'm going to get traded. To Sean's point, to Sean's point, though, they've got 12 overtime shootout locks, right? That's a, like, that's how many points they're leaving on your table. Because that's always the confusing there, right?

Because you look at the standings and your first thought is, oh, they've got, they're only in first place because of all their loser points. The Tampa Bay Lightning have already passed them in wins. They have a better wins and losses record, but Boston's getting all of these loser points, and that's why they're in first. And then you look at it in the flip side and go, like, man, if they were just 50-50 in overtime and especially the shootout, they'd be way ahead.

Yeah, they're the opposite Islanders, right? Where it's like the Islanders are really playing every single game to get to get the loser point because they're insanely good at three on three. Like, for whatever reason, Barry Trots has figured that shit out. And the Bruins are like, God, if we don't close this out in fucking regulation, we are in a lot of trouble. The Islanders, like the new regulation wins tiebreaker. They're sitting at 20 right now, which is fewer than the Minnesota Wild and the New York Rangers. Just to give you a sense of how they're doing it, closing out. Which, you know what?

That's the right strategy. Absolutely. The NHL is going to sprinkle magical extra points. Then, yeah, try to get to overtime. If you could snap your fingers and guarantee overtime every night, you'd do it every single time. Yeah. The Bruins, by the way, at home, 18, 2, and 9. So if you converted half of those overtime shitout losses to wins,

look at fucking like 23 and 2 on home ice. That's pretty good, man. And it's, and it's good guys. If it comes down to Boston Tampa in round two, home ice might matter a lot. So I know it's kind of, it's tempting to say, uh, no, yeah, I just can say, like, it's, it's tempting to say like, you know, it doesn't matter.

They're both going to make the play. playoffs, but this is one of those areas where maybe home ice does make a difference because, yeah, as you say, Boston is, he's really good at home and really kind of so-so on the road. It doesn't matter if they go to overtime in, like if they can't close it out in regulation in the playoffs, because they don't play three on three, and it's fine. But the thing I was going to say, of course, it doesn't matter anyway with Tampa because they can't win a fucking game seven. in a big series. The thing I was going to say about the Blues, you guys seen Jordan Bennington save percentage lately? There it goes.

Yeah, I was wondering if you're going to bring up this shit. I will never understand your beef with Jordan Bennington. That's been a running thing on this show for two years. He's a very good goaltender. Well, I mean, before last season, when he came on and, you know, was really, really good for three months or whatever it was, he was an okay HL goaltender. You know, he plays in a system where he's not going to see a lot of quality against.

He, you know, like, there are really good, there's a really good team in front of him. And to that point, in his last 10 appearances, he's 5, 4, and 1, despite a 874 save percentage. Like, that's how good the blues are in front of him. And they don't need him to be as lights out as he was. They just need him to be adequate. it and he hasn't been, and there's still a game above NHL 500. Pretty, you know, it speaks to the quality of the team more so than what he personally brings to the table.

Yeah, it's a, he's got, it's a 9-10 say percentage, 2.65 goals against. His quality starts are like 538, which is bad, and he's got a goal saves above average of like 1.8 right now. He's not been great. And they don't need him to be great. I think he's a good goal. But he needs to. get his act together ASAP because, you know, they, they have a little bit of a cushion,

but like Colorado is right there, man. Like, they're, they're going to keep coming. They're not, now they're, they're all mostly healthy again. That team's going to make a... That's looked like it was over and it's not. And Dallas scares me too. I still think the most underreported story of the year is the fact that St. Louis has done what they've done without Teresanko.

Like, imagine he's, like, taking a betchkin off the capitals. like he's fucking he's so fucking good and he pops in like 40 goals and like we're treating it like oh just who gives a shit he's just a cog in the machine and now he's skating again you know he was done for the year and now it's like you know what I'm fine let's see Russian machine um before we get to the big trade this week so this dust and buffling thing's finally gonna be fucking over this is dragged down for way too long yeah that's good give give the uh jets a little bit of cap flex to go get a defenseman if they need one. Good for everybody involved. And obviously, from a Jets perspective, it would have been nice to have this done much earlier. If this was where it was going to wind up,

it would have been nice to do it in September and have not kind of have this hanging over them. But you know what? Sometimes things just take time to sort out, and it sounds like it's there. I thought Blake Wheeler was really interesting and good on the topic yesterday. And you know what?

I mean, this is sometimes, sometimes it's hockey and sometimes it's life. And you just, you got to wait for things to sort out. And it's good for everyone if this is approaching some sort of resolution one way or another. This is part of Wheeler's quote about whether his thoughts on Dustin Bufflin being portrayed as the villain. and buff's a person. He's no different than anyone else. Nobody will probably know everything he's played through and the things he's gone through

to go to work every day for this organization in the city. He's probably the most popular player ever in the history of the franchise for those things, how hard he played in physicality. I think that gets lost sometimes. He's a guy, a good person. He's got three young kids. He did it as hard as he could for as long as he could.

And if he doesn't have it, if he doesn't feel like he has it anymore and he wants to focus his attention elsewhere on his family, let it be that. Wheeler's always great. but I thought he was exceptionally good yesterday. And especially after, because there were some comments earlier in the week from, I think it was Patrick Liny, that could have been interpreted as maybe expressing frustration with Bufflin. And, you know, I, you think we can give some benefit of the doubt that maybe that's not how it was intended, but it kind of had raised a few eyebrows where you're like, oh, how did the players really feel about this?

And having the captain and the leader address it and do it in the way that he did, I thought was probably helpful. for everyone. All right. Now we have a trade to announce. Kyle Clifford and Jack Campbell, your new members of the Toronto Maple Leafs. This is a, this,

I always like when, uh, shit is so terrible that a trade happens, like immediately after a game. Yeah. Because they have to fix it. And that, like when,

Hutchinson was bad and they're like, who's starting on Friday? And Keith's like, we're just wait. Like, ask me that question in an hour. You kind of had a feeling that, something was going to go

something was happening. It got gassed for like three goals in a period in two consecutive games or some shit and lost they lose the Rangers and then immediately after the game the Jack Campbell trade happens. I said this on Twitter. I find Jack Campbell's journey as an

NHL player to be fucking fascinating. Was he 11th overall or 12th overall? 11th. In the draft which is a place you never see goalies go. anymore. And then he goes to Dallas, doesn't develop the way they thought he was going to develop, kind of became a bust, only played like one game in the NHL with the stars, goes to L.A. And resurrects his career as a capable backup and at sometimes 1A to Jonathan Quick.

And now, instead of, signs a new contract last September to stick around in L.A. and now finds himself going from the worst team of the West to a potential playoff team in Toronto, which is, it's a weird-ass journey as a player. But I like him. I think I like him a lot. I'm happy for him. Yeah. And from all accounts in L.A., both him and Clifford, good guys, you know, I know that's often what gets said when guys get traded.

But, you know, it sounds like it's a positive. I like this deal for the Leafs. It's not, they didn't pay a high price. price. You know, Trevor Moore's a good player. They'll like him in LA, but he wasn't going to play any kind of significant role on this Leafs team anytime soon. It addresses a couple of areas of need, not obviously backup goaltender, but adding the depth, the toughness, the guy who's good in the room with the cup rings and all of that stuff. Even if it doesn't really help them much on the ice, it's kind of maybe buys Kyle Dubas a little bit of time with the certain

certain narratives that he brings in a guy like this. And they didn't, yeah, a couple of third round picks. That's not nothing. But it leaves them with plenty of ammo left to go and address. The other thing they need, which is help on the blue line. This isn't like one of those deals where it had looked like maybe they were going to have to pick one position or the other to address. And now they've got the ability to do both if they need to.

Campbell's a gamble. Like he's, it's a gamble here. There's certainly no guarantee that he's going to come in and play great. And he could come in and start on Friday and have a terrible game. And we're kind of right back to square one. It's like I was actually surprised because the, you know, the talk for for so long had been that that it would be Georgiev that they would go out and get. And you're kind of like, oh, geez, I don't know.

That guy's only, you know, he's 25. He's only started 60 games or played 60 games in the NH. Jack Campbell's played fewer games in his NHL career than Georgia. That sounds about right. And even though he's been, even though he debuted in like 2013, he's, he has not played much. But he has played. He was real good last year. Hasn't been great this year.

But, you know, if you had to roll. You're rolling the dice. You're rolling the dice. I know it's a goaltender. And it's a goaltender is going to play like eight games for you. It's, you're rolling the dice. But the Hutchinson. thing, they just couldn't keep going back to it. And Hutchinson had actually been decent for a little while

when he was starting. When he was starting. He was always awful when he came in relief for whatever reason, but he had some decent starts. But there is a certain point where fair or not, you just can't keep going back to it. And they had reached that point. And everything fell into place perfectly to make the deal not just with the injury and and Hutchinson not playing well Wednesday, but the Kings were in New York so that the players could just basically jump in a cab and join the Leafs. It's like I've seen the deal referred to as like a low risk and I don't think it is because you didn't give up a lot.

But if Jack Campbell doesn't work, then you're still stuck with this potential weak spot that could cost you the playoffs. So like this is, you know, you're not going to go out and get a new backup goaltender every week. You're going to pick one guy and say, this is our guy and we're rolling the dice on him. So they didn't over, they didn't pay a lot in terms of what they gave up, but the opportunity cost of not doing somebody else could end up being major. So I don't think it is low risk, but at least it was low cost, which is more than what it look like it might be when you talked about something.

I mean, look, like you say, they needed to make a decision on Hutchinson, and that decision had to be, get him the fuck away from this team, because he's been awful this year. He's like 880 something. I can't remember off the top of my head now, but he's in the 880s. And they turf Garrett Sparks were being in like the low 900s, right? Yep. And. Banished him from the, didn't even want to see him.

I would say I got why, but it was always a dicey thing with Hutchinson because, like, yeah, he doesn't have a good track record as an NHL goalie, right? And the thing with Campbell is, yeah, he doesn't either, but he's having a bad year that's whatever, 25 points better in save percentage. Like, that makes a difference. And, you know, if you want to say it's not, it's not low risk in that it's a problem. the thing you said about Georgiev is like apparently the Rangers are like we're holding out for nine first round picks for our third string goalie. Yeah. And he might not be particularly better than Jack Campbell. The stuff that was getting leaked into the media about what they wanted for him.

All I can say is good. Especially now that the most high profile team that needs that sort of goaltender is presumably out of the running. Yeah. Good luck. You know, if Rasmus Sandin wasn't even going to get them to pick up the phone, then good luck. And here's hoping you don't wind up just dropping a guy on waivers at the end of the year because he's still got three goalies. You're just saying that because McKenzie Blackwood looks like he's the solution in Jersey, right? Like they don't need a goalie anymore?

Oh, our series. That must be it. Hey, Sean, what do you think about the Myrtle-pushed narrative that the Leafs could get Sue Ben? I don't think it's so much a narrative as just they need a defenseman who can play that side. And they, he is one. And he is one. That's true. They apparently were in on him in the summer.

Obviously, they weren't in on him that hard because they, I mean, the devils didn't give up that much to get him. So it couldn't have been a frantic bidding war. but he is a local guy. If, you know, from a cat perspective, it's hard to imagine how it works. But if the devil's- New Jersey retaining 90% of his salary? Like, how the fuck? I mean, here's as a starting point, if the devils retain half the salary and the

Leafs flip Cody Cici, then the salary balances out. And then it's a question of, okay, and from a devil's perspective, you're then off the hook for next year as far as having them on the rock. but you're still paying half the set. So what are the assets? What are you going to actually give up? I have a hard time figuring out how it works. But maybe.

Because they're, Dubus has got to be kicking the tires on pretty much every, every defenseman who's available, especially on that side. So I'm sure the conversation's been had, but I think it's more likely that they wind up going in a different direction, unless for some reason the devil's really want it to move the guy out and we're willing to eat a lot of salary and not get much back, but I don't

know why you do that, especially if you're Tom Fitzgerald and you're auditioning for a job, giving away players who have at least high name value, doesn't seem like a great way to do that. Yeah, I mean, the thing, the thing for Toronto to keep in mind is that really does seem like Suban's washed. But he's got one year left on the deal, right? So if even if he is, this year next year, isn't it? Or is he got two after this year? No, it's two years after this one.

Okay. All right. So, yeah, that does get into more of a question. I thought it was one, you know, you can maybe roll the dice on one more year. But, well, you make, you make the deal in the hopes that it's a, you know, motivational thing and that go into Toronto and being on that team and all the... Keep can put him in a position to succeed. Yeah. Yeah. Lights of fire under his ass and stuff. And I mean, I hate to feed the beast on these things. But like, I mean, there's... life has changed a lot in the last couple years, right? And maybe your priorities changed a little bit in the last couple of years. And maybe you go to Toronto and all of a sudden you're in a different situation than Nashville and certainly in a different different situation than New Jersey. And maybe your perspective's changed a little bit back on the game a little bit. And it's like, I'm here for that idea. But I just don't know physically if it's the time

to trade for PK segment. Because it is a little bit lost in the basketball. There's a part of me, and I like P.K. Suezman a lot, not just as a player, but I like the personality and everything that he brings off the ice. I think the NHL as a whole needs more of that. Absolutely. But we saw how it worked in Montreal under that microscope and how things just got blown out of the court. I mean, the guy, the guy, he high-fived wrong. The first time he turned the puck over at his own blue line. The first time he looks like he smiles after a loss. I don't know. Toronto might not be. In one sense, he's a perfect big market guy because he should be in a big market and be front and center as a star in this league. But I also, I don't know, Toronto would be, I mean, he'd be a hero if he came in and played well. But if it went bad, it could go real bad. And again, this is just the kind of thing that you hear when somebody leaves a market. But it's like established fact amongst the NHL.

inner circle that the guys in the National fucking hated him. Yeah. Like there's, it's, it's, it's,

it's, it's, it's, it's, it's kind of like the unspoken secret of his departure from Nashville, like how incredibly happy those players were that he was no longer there. And, uh,

and again, and it sucks, because I don't want to be that guy being like, they're doing great without them. Yeah. Well, it's like, oh, I agree.

And I think that their blue line definitely took a hit. But, I mean, it's, it's, it's, I don't know. He's a complicated player at this age, you know? I think sometimes you can overlook a lot of the P.K. stuff when he was... A Norris winner. A Norris winner or a Norris contender. And he's the only guy you're going to...

Tolerance threshold for it when it looks like you're washed. If you want to talk about a range of outcomes, he's the only guy that you're going to be able to trade for who could potentially play at a Norris level for you or anywhere close. Like, Alex Martinez isn't going to come in and suddenly find a new gear. Not a Matt Dumbah fan, are you? I don't, well, you know, Dumbus. If he's available, I'd be probably more interested in him than Suban, for sure. But then it's a question of price, yeah, of course. All right, let's talk about something that we probably now in hindsight should have led the show off with,

which is Alex Ovechkin basically going to score 700 goals by the time to get done with this podcast. and continue his assault on Wayne Gretzky's record. So cool. That's so cool. It's so cool. I can't believe we're going to actually get this. Like, think of it, just for those of you who don't, who listen to us from Canada, maybe don't understand the U.S. media dynamic when it comes to hockey, Ovechkin chasing Gretzky's record will be the single greatest thing that's ever happened.

Yeah, probably. Like, I'm not trying to be hyperbolic here. I'm saying that people who would never give a shit about hockey in any way, shape, or fucking form are going to be watching hockey to see if he sets this record. It's going to be a transformative thing for the NHL. Yeah. And here's the thing. It'll be like chasing Hank Aaron's, you know, Hank Aaron chasing Babe Ruth or except

if Babe Ruth was there. Right. And playing along with it. Because Gretzky strikes me as a sort of guy who's going to, you know, he understands how marketing works and how this stuff works. And I see him being, you know, there for the ride and kind of pushing it. So it has the potential to be a lot of fun. I went back in, sorry, I went back and read some of the Gretzky-how stuff when Gretzky broke the goals record. And how, Gordy was sort of around for some of it. He was not gracious about it.

But yeah, he was kind of a dick about it where people would ask him about the goals record and maybe like, oh, you mean the NHL goals record and bring up all the fucking WHA goals? It's like, that's beautiful. What a mench. But it does seem like Gretzky is much more enthusiastic to play along on this one,

probably because he knows that his points record is never going to be broken by anybody. But he seems like he's into this, like the idea of like someone's coming from my record and I'm down with it. At least somebody challenging it is is great. And yeah, I mean, it's at this point, if Ovechkin, like, you know, Dom had a thing in his 16 stats this week where he was like, look, you know, I did projections last year for where Ovechkin would wind up and the conclusion was that he had a good shot at it.

But that was with him scoring like 40 goals this year. and then like descending from that. And he might score 60, at which point you bump everything else up and suddenly it becomes not just, is he going to break it, but when and how far can he get? I mean, even,

it sounds insane to say this about somebody playing in this era. Like, a thousand goals is not completely out of the question for this guy. Yeah. Like it's not, you know, he'd have to play into his fort, but at this guy, I mean, he's a beast.

He's a machine. Like, what's he going to do? do lose a step standing in the face off circle blasting one-timers. Right. If he stays healthy and that's, you know, that's the question. But boy, he's like this, this could absolutely happen. And it's, yeah, it's going to be fun as hell to see it. Even if you don't, even if you don't like Ovechkin, even if you want Gretzky's record to stand, then root against him.

That'll be fun too. Like, that's, yeah, they might. But that'll be fun too, you know, go for it. So no player older than 32 has scored more than 60 goals in a season. Espo did it when he was 32. Gretzky's last 60 goal season was 26, Hulls was 27, Bossies was 29, Marios was 30. So unprecedented level of offensive output for a player his age. And just fucking great.

And I also give Gretzky credit for this, because we were talking about, like the era adjusted stuff a little bit. I give him credit for understanding and putting words to the idea that, like, he knows how lucky he was to do what he did when he did it. And he knows how incredible what Ovetian's doing now is based on how good the goaltending is and defensive systems and everything else. And I give him credit for that, like, to acknowledge that. It's cool that he does that.

Wayne's cool. Is Gretzky cool? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Well, cool. Yeah. He seems like a, he seems, he's been a very, very good ambassador for the game. Let's put it that way. He is cooler than you would probably think a person with his level of accomplishments and all that kind of stuff could be, you know? That's a good point. Like, is he, he's cooler than Tom Brady. He's cooler than, I mean, he's obviously cooler than. Pete Rose because Pete Rose just hermetically seals himself in a glass case at a casino and signs autographs all that. I don't know.

That's cool. That seems cool. He's cooler than Jordan? Yeah, absolutely. You would have to try hard not to be cooler than Jordan. Famously a bad guy. I've said in this podcast before, like the moment that Gretzky won my heart completely was when he was at the World Cup of hockey and told the story about how he takes his kid to the Hockey Hall of Fame. and goes in disguise to just, like, he said to, like, look at hockey history,

but we know it's essentially to just look at his old shit. Yeah, right? It's like, standing there in front of a class case being like, I understand, that's Wayne Gretzky's stick. And the disguise he wears is a St. Louis Blues jersey. Is that Wayne Gretel? Oh, no, he's in a blues. That can't be him.

I hear Wayne Gretzky was a pretty good player. Oh, that's a good point, sir. I love that about him, though. I think he's cool. Is he cooler than Mario? Or is Mario cooler because Mario's so detached? Yeah, I don't, I don't, I've kind of lost what our definition of cool here is because Gretzky is still kind of a geek.

Like he, he kind of comes across as, uh, which is part of the appeal, I think, uh, you know, the, I don't think you can do Waikiki hockey and be officially cool at, uh, at any point. But, but, but he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's right for the NHL and yeah, Lemieux too. The NHL's been fortunate. You know, for all we talk about how boring most of the players are. They've been okay as far as some of the elite guys, including Gretzky and including Ovechkin.

So hopefully maybe if a guy with a personality breaks one of the biggest records in the sport and the sun doesn't explode, maybe that'll wake a few of these other guys up to show a bit of it too. Oh, come on, Sean. I mean, there's a better chance at the end. entire planet catching on fire than the sun exploding. I find it amazing that think about, think about being Gretzky. Think about being a guy whose name defines a sport or like if you say a sport,

that's the name that comes to mind. Like that level of fame is inconceivable to me. Mohamed Ali's level of fame is inconceivable to me. And Gretzky's on that level. Yeah, it's. Yeah. The fact that we don't really, we kind of have to force the greatest player debate. like, you know, you can have it.

I know, I think that's a different debate, though. Like, I feel like he's the most famous player of all time. Yeah, absolutely he is. And probably will always be. But, like, I mean, greatest player of all time. I'm here for your Bobby Orr and Mary Lamutakes for sure. Let's put it this way. This is the level of fame that Wayne Gretzky had.

And this is, you know, this is one for Greg and me as bar trivia freaks. But 90% of hockey questions. questions you get at bar trivia. The answer is fucking Wayne Gretzky. And my parents have at their at their house the old version of trivial pursuit

that came out when I was probably not even born yet. So that's how old it is. And in that thing, every hockey question, the answer is Gordy Howe. So like, that's the level Wayne's on. He is the only

thing a lot of people know about the sport. And that... Right. And I think it'll be a thing where, like, he'll always be Babe Ruth. And then if Ovechkin breaks his record, he'll be the guy that broke Babe Ruth's record. And that's the difference. And by the way, to your point, maybe Bobby O'R is the greatest player of all time, because 95% of crossword puzzle moves are Bobby O'R. That does help him. So you got that going for it. It certainly does bolster his case. But so OV's going to probably break 700, potentially over the weekend. Then next up, I believe, is Mike Gartner on the list.

Get his ass. It's such an exciting time, man. I'm so pumped for him. And to have the season he's having, he's probably played himself into the Hart Trophy conversation now, too, with this goal scoring spree that he's been on. No, I mean, I think it's possible. They need a third, they need a third candidate. Conversation.

Like, like Connor and or Leon and McKinnon will be two of the candidates. and then you have a third spot that's kind of open right now, and it wouldn't shock me if Lavechkin hits 60 goals at 34 years old that he's going to get that third spot. If he hit 60, I think just winning the rocket is probably not enough to get him in the conversation because he's been doing that for quite a while now. You know, like that's just kind of the thing he does. And, you know, but if he blows it out of the water and he scores 60, yeah.

I wouldn't be surprised at that point if he's not the fucking favorite. Like I said, Connor's got a Leon problem. Like, I feel like everybody wants to give. If Conradiv finishes behind Leon Dressidal in the scoring race, that is going to take some of his support away. Because I can't, like, I've been sitting here all year ago and like, yeah, David Pasternak, but is even the best player on the, I mean, we all know Connor McDavid's the best player on the Oilers, but if he's not the most productive player, Yeah, that is going to Then you're going to get a lot of people like me who are like His fucking linemates for the last 40 games of the season were Zach Cassian and Josh Archibald

Are you fucking kidding me? That's that's $12 million players Zach Cassian that you're talking about I think if you look at the way the hearts voted on McKinnon has the best case because he's going to have the numbers and he's also going to have a Grand Canyon-sized gap between himself and the next highest score When did that become, like, when did we decide that's, like, a huge thing that we have to consider? I don't. I don't think it's a huge thing to consider, but it is. I won't stop fucking breaking it off.

And again, I, well, I think you get into some vote splitting, right? Like, you do get into this. Like, it's always been part of the thing. Yeah, they don't want to, they don't want to vote for multiple players from the same team, which maybe is wrong. And then you kind of wind up with this, like, just some of the people are going to, maybe vote for Dracidal, especially if he finishes, you know, five points ahead or something. It's, you know, it's a, it's a bit of a gap. Yeah, it just, it siphons off just enough. I don't think it disqualifies anyone, but it sort of has you thinking, I'm not sure who the,

who the guy is. And again, it's different in Edmonton than it is in Boston, because in Boston, you can actually look at those three, all three guys on the top line, including Bergeron, and ask the question, like, who is the best player? Who is the reason why this is, like, you don't get that in Edmonton. Nobody's thinking McDavid is the second best player on that team. There's no argument to be made there. But the MVP is not the player in a given season that you would want to build your team around. It's who had the best year, the most valuable year, whatever you define that to be. So it does get a little bit tricky. I think it's going to be moot because I think McDavid will just blow by him at the end. I don't know. I think Kyler Yamamoto is the long-term

solution the oilers have been looking for. It's kind of funny to think about value vis-à-vis v. Drysidal, because if McDavid's your constant, where would the Oilers be if it wasn't for Drysiddle? Well, I mean, the real question is, where would the Oilers be if they had had a wing for Dry-Sidal all year and he could anchor his own line? Because now they're winning a lot because, oh, we don't have to only play one, like, productive line for whatever, 22 minutes a game. We can have two productive lines.

for 35, 38. And then it's a whole different sport for them, basically. Because it's like, oh, we're not completely incompetent the second McDavid comes off the ice. Cool. Right. Yeah, it's a refreshing thing to see. One last thing. Then they don't try hard enough to beat the sharks.

No, they didn't try hard enough. That's right. Try harder, Connor. Hold on. Is that really what works? Yeah, he said the sharks were, the sharks had the effort. that night and the Oilers didn't. That's what he said.

It was something along those lines. Hang on, I'll find it here. Somebody wanted it more. Yeah, something like that. Oilers got up to nothing early and had pretty much put on their collective, put up their collective feet ever since. Turns out San Jose is trying to win, not just here for the popcorn. Yeah. So the implication being that the Oilers are not trying to win.

Yeah, no, this team that's like been up. and down literally all season. Like they'll win six games, then they'll lose eight of 12 or something like that. And the local media can't figure it out. Weird. Weird how this keeps happening. Oh, I was trying to figure out what I got into it with Spector about. And I remember it now.

It was when Dave Riddick did the thing where he played the, what is this, the no phone league card when the Oilers had beef with him tossing his stick to fucking Mars after winning a shootout. And, like, I'm sorry, but two things can be true. You can celebrate any way you want, and it's awesome. But also, your arch rival could give you shit for it when you get pulled in the next game because they've chased you. Like, these two things can totally be coexisting, can't they? See, no, you got into this with me on Twitter and you got mad.

Oh, I got to with you two. Yeah, no, I don't understand why it's such a big deal. Like, like, you expect to take shit if you fucking dunk the ball on somebody. Hey, that's the code, baby, and we got to love the fucking code, don't we? And it's like, oh. Oh, no, I didn't say that. That was the way you phrased it. You went there.

That was the way you phrased it. You went there with him getting, like, physically assaulted. No, I wasn't, it wasn't the code thing. Okay. I'm just saying that, like, expect an equal and opposite reaction to your reaction. Like, fucking, like, they're, of course they're going to say shit to you. Right. And I don't, I don't think he was, like, shocked by it.

Like, to me, the worst part of it is that the media was like, did you think it was cool that they did that and he's going to be like, yeah, I thought it was fucking stupid. I didn't like it at all. Yeah, no, he's right. He shouldn't like it. But also, yeah, like you say, should he expect it? Definitely. But also, you know, like if you're going to be like, oh, fuck you, you threw your stick after you wanted shootout game that, like, everybody was mad about for a month.

Like everybody, like, that was a big game, quote unquote, big, as big as a regular season game in January can be. and it was a genuine moment of awesomeness. Absolutely. But like, but like don't tell me that, oh, you, what, you can't have fun in this league when like one of the oilers is like, like, why don't you take your oilers is like, what, like one of the oilers is like, what, what, what, what, players can't say anything anymore? What is. What is, like, you know, fucking take your goalie stick and shove it up your ass is just skating off the ice. Like, I, I don't know, man. I guess I'm, I'm oversensitive to the, what is it?

What is? What is? What is? What is? What is? It's like a fucking. I think you should leave bit. It's like, who gives a shit?

You could do whatever you want. Just expect her to be some reactions to it. Like I say, I think, I wonder how sincere he wasn't saying that, honestly. Because, again, I think it's like a cool wrestling heel thing to do to be, to like do the big celebration. And then when everybody gets mad, we'd be like, I don't know what everybody's so fucking mad about. I think that's funny. And then one of the Oilers gives him 10 lashes with a belt and he has to take it in the middle of it. This is the porno thing you were talking about.

about earlier? Speaking of movies, I think it's time for one of our classic Puck Soup quizzes. As you know, boys, the Oscars are Sunday, the Academy Awards, the moment when all of the glitz and glamour of Hollywood comes out to reward themselves for their efforts. So I've threatened this for a couple of weeks. It is now time for Quizmaster Greg to administer an Oscars quiz. to Ryan and Sean, but not just any Oscars quiz. Today's game is called Oscar or Not, sir.

It's a game in which I'm going to name a movie, and you tell me whether or not that movie won an Academy Award in any category. Okay. Major, but, you know, the ones that we know. I don't know if there's an Oscar for best for best key grip or whatever. But I mean, like insofar as technically, because it won for like credits design, suicide squad is an Academy Award winning film. Major, major shit you'd actually hear on the main show and not at the like technical awards montage. So like art direction.

Are we counting like costume design and stuff here? Art direction, costume design, visual effects, sound mixing. All that shit's on the table. But like best credits is not. Okay. And the Oscar for the best second unit direction goes to, no, fuck that. Those awards, though, the visual, the art, the sound, the songs, all that shit on the table. Yes.

Did you understand each other? Okay. I think we got it, yeah. Okay. I'm going to name a movie and then you tell me by saying Oscar or not, sir, whether it won an Academy Award. Okay. First of all, I'm not saying not, sir. Oh, okay.

I'm not doing it. Definitely not. That's like when you go to like Red Robin and you try to order just like the burger with the embarrassing name and you're like, I want the barbecue burger. And they're like, do you want the happy cowboy barbecue burger? Yeah. You're telling me that you've never ordered the Rudy, Rudy Tutti, fashion foodie breakfast that where was it, Denny's or Ihopper, wherever it was back in the day? That's Denny's.

That's Denny's. I'm not ordering the moons over my hammy. I'm not saying that. That one's fun. I wouldn't say that. I remember the diner that I remember the diner that I. had back in Madawanman as a kid, the Milbrook Diner had animal names for all of their children's meals and how excited I was to order

the Superman, which was just like a cheeseburger. Right. Yeah. So it's not for you. It's for the kids. All right. Who goes first? Who won the last quiz? I don't even remember. It's been so long. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it probably doesn't matter. I want to say Ryan won. Well, you know what? Ryan won the dinosaur versus history quiz. So he should be considered the winner. So Ryan, do you want to kick or receive. I'll receive, Greg. All right.

Here we go. So this is now, let me get a pen so I can keep track of this. So there's no, you know, contract. I'm actually going to load it into an app and we'll see how that goes. Great. Yep. Okay. All right.

We're going to have to re-canvass all these results tomorrow because, especially if I don't win. Right. Exactly. And, you know, or just again, declare victory. All right, Ryan. 1998, men in black. Did it win an Oscar? Did Men in Black win an Oscar?

Hmm. What could it, I'm going to say it did not, but probably Men in Black, the song was nominated. It did win an Oscar. Wow. It won for Best Makeup.

Oh, that makes sense. Rick Baker, the guy who did American Werewolf in London, won. It lost Best Song and Art Direction. So here come the Men in Black lost best song that year. So that is

that is not Sir. Okay. O for one. Sean? Mm-hmm. The Wolf of Wall Street. Did that win an Oscar? Ooh.

2013, by the way. Yeah, that was a good movie. I feel like it nominated for a bunch, which is making me suspicious that it's showing up on this list. I feel like this is maybe a curveball situation. I'm going to say, no, it didn't win an Oscar. First of all, I would always caution both of you at this point to play the quiz and not the quiz master. When you start looking for patterns and things of that nature, that's when both of you start falling down the abyss. Don't met a game. Just, all right. But you're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. It

did not win an Oscar. Nominated for five Academy Awards, DeCaprio, Jonah Hill, Scorsese, Best Picture and Best Adapted Screenplay, Ofer at the Oscars that year. So you are correct. No Academy Award for The Wolf of Wall Street. Ryan, 1987's Predator.

No. That's correct. It was, in fact, nominated for Best Visuals effects but lost. I assumed that it would have been, but yeah, no. It did not win. Jesse Ventura was not nominated. His Oscar clip would have been, I ain't got time to bleed.

And then everybody claps. Sean, 1999's Star Wars, Colin, Episode 1 dash, the Phantom Menace. That definitely, what, that is, that for, like, well, I was going to say like, digital effects. That's not a thing.

I don't think. But yeah, I'm going to say that that probably won an Oscar, because that was before the backlash had really kicked it, and we all decided that movie sucked. So I'm going to say yes. The answer is no. Ah. Nominated for Best Sound, Sound Effects, and Visual Effects.

But uh-oh. You know what else came out in 1999? Matrix? The Matrix won all those categories. Yeah, yeah, good call. Swept them right away from the Phantom Menace. This is a tight one, folks. Ryan, 1994's classic Speed. Speed did win an Academy Award.

That's correct. It actually won two Academy Awards. It won for Best Sound and Best Sound Effects. I revisited Speed the other night when I was up late writing and it was on TV. And my God, that movie holds up. It's so fucking cool. It's such a good movie. It's such a good movie. I was reading as one of my favorite, pastimes in life is to read the IMDB trivia page. They did the bus jump twice and wrecked the bus twice and they put it on a ramp and I think they digitally removed the ramp or something where they did the jump, but it was crazy. Two other bits of trivia from Speed.

One, do you remember the part where they get away from the helicopters by going to LAX? Yes. Originally in the script, it was to go to Dodger Stadium. but the Dodger Stadium people would not allow them to film there. So that was one little bit of trivia. And then the other bit of trivia was in the original script, instead of it was like, it was 50 miles an hour in the movie, right? The bus couldn't go under, I think.

Yeah. In the original script, it was 20. So that's kind of, that would have been shitty. It's like kind of takes the fun out of it a little bit. The bus that couldn't slow down mostly. Don't yield. So yeah, it's It's just rolling through every stop sign.

Yes, very slowly. Okay, so just am I to understand there are separate Oscars for sound and sound effects? Sound mixing. So I think sound is your sound effects, your fully work and things like that, and mixing is probably like how it all comes together. You're going to understand why this show is like five hours long.

Yeah, it's the worst. Yeah. There's also, I was listening to the big picture on the ringer, part of the Spotify network the other day, and they made the point, I can't believe there's no Oscar for casting. There's no Oscar for, like, the best cast that was put together. That's kind of crazy.

Like, that's the key to the whole fucking movie, isn't it? Allison Jones is 78-time Oscar winner. I mean, you know, kind of her thing. But, like, you look at, you know, like, once upon a time at Hollywood, or even uncut, uncut gems is a good example for how many randos are in that movie. Like, that's the kind of shit that should get rewarded, I think. It doesn't. Yeah, I agree.

Let's go. All right. Sean, 1982's Blade Runner. Ooh, see. You try to play me again, aren't you? Yeah, no, I'm thinking, again, this is another one where you're thinking, like, special effects, and now I'm trying to think what else came out then. You know what?

I'm worried that like E.T. is going to show up and knock me out. I'm going to say yes. Same logic as before. I feel like there is some special effects. One of the multiple, I remember watching that and thinking the sound had been mixed really well. So I'm going to go with yes. The answer is no, and you're going to fucking kick yourself. Nominated for Best Art Direction and Visual Effects lost visual effects to ET.

There it is. You called it, though. Partial credit. Well, you know, I feel like I thought E.T. was an 83 movie, but I'm clearly... 82. Clearly, dumb 7-year-old me did not know. All right. So to reset it, Ryan is up 2 to 1. And we have...

We have four questions left. Ryan, 2014's Interstellar, Christopher Nolan's Space Epic. Um... Hmm. Yes. I'll say yes. Correct. Yeah.

It won best visual effects, lost best score, sound, sound mixing, and production design. But it did win best visual effects. So this is it, buddy. We need these two questions in order to try to match the cinema acumen. A movie quiz. What a, this is stunning. Hit me. Sean, 1986's Top Gun, the prequel to Top Gun Maver.

Rick. I get, you know, I'm going to keep going to the well. I'm going to say, like, yeah, there's got to be, yes, it won some, some, I'm going to say sound related, you know, those jets were really loud. That's, yeah, that's a sound Oscar winner. So it's very interesting that you should say that. It lost for sound. It won. Did it win her best song?

For sound effects and lost for editing. But it definitely fucking won for take my breath. breath away. Yeah. Wow. All right. All right. Here we go.

I thought you're going to say a one for you lost that love and feeling. Yes. That ensemble performance in a bar. Yeah. Yes. All right. Final two. My God, this is exciting.

This is exactly what you want out of a Paxi of Quiz. Is it to come down to the wire? Sean's pulled his goalie. Ryan? 2007's Cars. Pixar's Cars. Um, no,

widely regarded as a let... Oh, no, no. Pixar always wins. Yeah, it's Pixar. Yeah, cars, yeah. Yep. No. Really? It lost Best Original Song, which I believe was a Randy Newman special. Or maybe not. It lost best original song.

Probably was. Probably a fucking mobbed. It might have been one of the only Pixar movies not to win best animated feature. It went to have happened. feet that year. Oh yeah. George Miller, Academy Award winner George Miller. We love them, folks. They're doing a new Mad Max right now. They're shooting it.

Are they really? Yep. Oh, fuck. How great would that be? Yeah, they're shooting it right now. Let's go. Fucking can't wait. All right, here we go. This is for the tie, and there is a tiebreaker. Oh. Sean 1988's Tim Burton Classic Beetlejuice

Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Beetlejuice don't say it three times Craig Oh no All right So what would that have

One for Wasn't any music There wasn't special effects I'll give you a hint The guy who played Otho was not nominated for best supporting actor Sure

I get that reference You know what? I'm going to go I can see that being like a costume or like a set design thing and now I'm trying to think like was like that was back when Tim Burton was still cool but like was it too early for him to

for one of his movies to get read it. It was definitely like right after it was after Peewee pre-Batman. Where does Edward Cizzer fans fit into this. That's after Batman. That's like early 90s.

Oh, wow. Okay. You know, I'm going to say, yeah, the costume or like set or one of those say, I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say, yeah, it did. Right. Well, it was not, it did not win for set design. Damn it. And it did not win for costume.

But it sure fucking did win for best makeup. That is correct. Makeup. And we have ourselves. So like throwing white paint on white paint on microint. Michael Keaton's face is Gotcha and Oscar back there was also I think it was also practical effects

for like when they went to purgatory or whatever the fuck it is. The little, the shriveled head guy at the end had to be Yeah, yeah. So I think that's makeup. That guy won someone on Oscar. All right.

So 3-3 is your score after the, after regulation. We go to the tiebreaker. We're going to go closest to the pin rules here. Okay. Closes to the pin. Not Price's right. I got to actually listen to the rules because I've screwed up a few of these by...

This isn't Price's right rules. Not Price's right rules. This is closest to the pin. You can't go over. You just got to be closer to the number. And I do realize that doing it this way means that we may end up with a tie, but fuck it. This is the tiebreaker. Here we go.

How many Oscar nominations, not wins. Nominations. How many Oscars? nominations in the major categories, the ones we're dealing with here in this quiz, how many Oscar nominations did Christopher Nolan's The Dark Knight have? And we go to Ryan first. Six. Ryan says six.

That's what I was going to say. So now it is kind of Price's Rate Rules, where you're going to figure out if you're going to go higher or lower than six. All right. Oh. There's the actor. I feel like that was before they expanded the best picture. So like how many, how many like technical category,

how many technical categories are there? And I feel like part of me feels like this is futile because I feel like Ryan May nailed it. Hmm. Um, Mm-hmm. Yes. But if he hasn't nailed it,

I don't, I don't feel like you would. If I, if I may, I will give, I will give you this clue. Okay. Heath Ledger did win for best supporting.

actor that year. So it's at least one. Okay. That changes my equation. You know what? I let's go over. I'm going to say, I'm going to say over. Well, what's over? You've got to give me an actual number. Yeah, you're going to have a number. Oh, seven. So I'm going to take seven. Okay. Seven is the number over six. There we go. In honor of future NHL goal scoring leader, Alex Ovechkin, the answer is eight. Wow. Unbelievable. Sean pulls out the win and the Oscar quiz.

What did it get nominated for then? All the technical categories and also cinematography. Heat Ledger and then everything that was... Ledger. It won for Ledger 1 and sound editing one. But it hit all the major categories that you'd expect. And on top of that, it also hit cinematography for Wally Fister. and everything else. So, yeah, dark night, man.

Here, I'll find, let me find the actual The Dark Night. But that was like, I'm right, right? Like, that was before they expanded the best picture. I don't think you're right about that. I think you're... No, it was before they expanded the best picture because that was the reason they did it.

That's what I was going to say. I feel like they were like, oh, we got to get the comic book. Best Supporting Actor. best sound editing at one. Then it was cinematography, film editing,

art direction, makeup, sound mixing, visual effects. Art direction. That movie looks like shit. What is they talking about? Well,

there is that scene where like they had to move the bat cave into that room with all the lights on the ceiling. Like maybe that's what they're talking about? I don't fucking know. But yeah, that's what it was.

That was incredible. Good job, boys. Good job, Sean. Man, I get, what's again? Johnny, I don't fucking know anything about pop culture. Pulls out the win of the pop culture quiz. As long as I can just guess and not have to actually know anything about the subject, I'm pretty good. All right, there you go.

All right, unless you've got anything else you want to bring up, I think that's the show. No ad this week. There'll be many more next week, producer Katie tells us. So there's that. Anything else you want to talk about? Ryan, you want to talk about Montreal, keeping all their players? Oh, yeah. That was great.

And 31 thoughts this week. Elliot Friedman says, you know, the habs are convinced the only reason they're not good this year is they haven't been healthy enough. It's fucking very funny to be. There it is. Because the team sticks. They got it. They're bad. They nailed it.

It is very possible that trade deadline is going to be awful. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like worse than usual. Yeah. If you were Arizona, would you trade Taylor Hall? Yep. Another team, not good.

I probably wouldn't have Taylor Hall if I was Arizona. Yeah, there's also that. There's also that. But, hey, we're not alpha brains, you know? And if you were going to have Taylor Hall, you certainly wouldn't want to trade your potential lottery pick. That's for sure. No.

No, you don't want to hold on to that. A classic, oops of Daisy. Just a big oopsie. It happens. I think you should definitely keep that arrow in your quiver, by the way, because I believe you also use that for an Iowa caucus joke this week. And it's a fucking great joke. Thank you.

All right. Big mistake. We all make them. That's Puck Soup for this week. I'm Greg Wischinsky. You could read my stuff on ESPN.com. I guess I should probably add. I mean, if you put an ESPN to your browser, I'm sure you'll find it.

You'll probably find it. track it down. On ESPN and ICE this week, Emily and I asked Sean Couturey his thoughts on Gritty's acquittal and found out the Sean Coterie. Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about that. He beat the rap. He beat the rap after he beat that kid. Allegedly beat. And so, yeah, he did it.

And I got to, once again, we have to go back to the original point on this whole controversy with Gritty, which is that even in his exoneration, he was treated as a sentient being and not anybody that was actually in the suit. I'm never going to get over the shit. shit. Yeah, that's cool. It's so fucking weird. That's K-Fa-B baby. I mean, it reinforces the idea that he is a creature that was excavated from underneath Wells Fargo Center and now is like performing for the team. Because why else we do not use the real person's name? The only good that comes out of this is I tweet it and I think other people did as well and I use the word K-Fa but every time you do that, a bunch of people look it up and discover the word and realize how, what a perfect word that is for.

the times we're living in now. Like, it's just like your, your vocabulary just increases exponentially in potential once you have that one. It's, it's, uh, wrestling has given us three terms in recent years that I am so happier in sort of the creeping into the public lexicon, which is KFabe, work and shoot. Like those, those three things are all you need in life to define anything. That's true. Yeah. But yeah, so Gritty got to quit. Go work yourself into a shoot, brother.

Maybe it was a, maybe it was a cash grab attempt by the family. Who's to say, really? But the Philadelphia Police Department doing due diligence. Well, I also saw a tweet about it that Philly has one of the lowest murder clearance rates in the country because this is a city dedicated to the idea of not snitching. and the tweet I saw said something along the lines of he could have hit that kid with the chair in front of 50,000 people and nobody would say a fucking word to the cops,

which respect. And then in the trial it would have been like the Irishman. He just would have taken the fifth as to not incriminate himself. By the way, I finally caught up with the Irishman and really good. Yeah, it's great. It's really good, but like, I feel my personal biases creep in. Like, taken as a film about miscommunication and, and, and the dying light of life, it's fan fucking-tastic.

But Scorsese's done this movie better, and I like my Scorsese a little bit more coaked up than the Irishman. The Irishman was much more of a meditation than it was the usual Scorsese mania. I did not want to see a bunch of 70-year-olds pretending to be coked up. That's right. Oh, and also... Also, yeah, fuck, fuck this movie getting a goddamn special effects nomination. The CGI was horrible. It was not good.

You noticed it less as the movie went along, but that first shot of De Niro driving the truck is like, jarringly... The Polar Express level bad. Yeah, they used CGI to deH De Niro, but he still ends up looking like he's 55 years old, and they're calling him kid. It's the most distracting thing in the goddamn movie. It works okay right up until he moves. Yes. And then the thing about the Irishman is like it was before I saw it,

it was my reminder that we all need every now and then that I'm like way too online because I was talking to somebody and they mentioned it and they're like, are you going to see that? And I was like, oh, no, I heard it sucks. And they're like, no, I don't think it does. I think it's getting pretty good reviews. And I'm like, no, no, there's like this scene where, like, De Niro's kicking a guy and he looks really old and everyone on Twitter's making fun of it. And it's like, it's really bad.

And he's like, yeah, I think it's getting nominated for like best picture in every category. You should probably check it out. And then I found out that, yeah, it was just Twitter making fun of one five second scene in a four hour movie. Which is a terrible scene. Yeah, it's not a terrible scene. Yeah, it's all, all ridicule of that scene is earned. Warranted. It's okay.

Yeah. I really liked it. Listen, it's way too long. Let's be honest. Nobody's got the time. I don't agree. And I think Scorsese has done better. But it's really good.

And I got to tell you, like, there's, it's one of those movies where it's such a slow simmer that once you get to the boiling point, man, is it good? That's why it's not too long. Like, that's the whole point. No, but you could get the simmer go. This was a fucking slow cooker. This wasn't a simmer. That's fine. No, it's not fine.

It's way too long. It was earned. The scene with Pesci and De Niro in the kitchen when they finally... Oh, God damn it. That scene is so fucking good. It's so good. And Pachino should have gotten a nomination for Hafa. He brings such an awesome energy to that movie.

I know it's because people think he's just doing Pichino, but he's not. He created a character. Yes, he did. He absolutely did. The whole speech about you don't run out of a guy with a, You run away from a guy with a knife, but you run out of him with a gun. It's great. It's so good.

He was great. I was so happy to see him doing good work because it's been a while. I'm excited for this new, is it an Amazon series he's doing? Yeah, the Nazi Hunters series. Yeah, looks great. With Perry Jackson was it? Was he the Harry Potter series they tried to start? Percy Jackson. That's what it was. Percy Jackson. You're right about that. And the Olympians, yeah. Anyway, so Shaw Cotriere didn't like Gritty at first and then learned to like him and was happy to see that he was exonerated. So that's on the podcast. And also, you could read the story that got me on several Buffalo radio stations. It got me several angry calls from the organization. The sabres are a disaster and the fans are pissed off. That was in my column on Thursday.

Yeah, sign up for the Puck Suit Patreon, in particular, the newsletter, which I am writing probably three times a week unless, you know, circumstances preclude it, like, you know, going on vacation or that kind of thing. But, you know, you'll get a pretty good helping of hockey takes if you sign up. So check it out. People say it's good. I'm not sure I believe them, but they're nice to say it. It is. It is good. It's very good. There you have it.

Check out my stuff on The Athletic. Had a piece this week where I kind of took the misery of Sabres fans as a jumping off point and said, okay, here's what it looks like when a fan base hits rock bottom and loses hope. And tried to figure out which team fan bases might be in danger of being the next to hit that point. And kind of took a bunch of teams and ranked them from. the least to the most likely. And yeah, I think I nailed the number one, at least according to fans of that team. They seemed happy with it. And there's also a bunch of amusing tweets from various fans in there as well. So check that out if you didn't see it this week. Good stuff.

All right. Thanks everybody for listening to the podcast. Enjoy the Oscars on Sunday. Go Parasite Go. And do check out the mailbag on the Patreon. We'll have many other things to talk about there. for those who don't know, that's Patreon.com slash puck soup. And you can see all the pricing and stuff and all the bonus sheet you can get, including Ryan's newsletter. So do check that out.

And yeah, we will talk to you soon. Thanks, everybody. By the way, no chance parasite wins, unfortunately. Okay, bye. Okay, bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got spoiled their commentary

to what if you'll commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nightsees. Park 2.