Puck Soup - Ruff Landing

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

The boys discuss the new GM and head coach for the NJ Devils; break down the best and worst of new CBA; discuss "return to play" protocols and what life in the bubble might look like; Chris Pronger leaves the Panthers; the scandalous legacy of "Supermarket Sweep"; a new quiz that's initially great; and an overrated/underrated/fav/least fav on the films of Tom Cruise!

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and nonsense. Bootsu. I'm Greg Wischinski, the SPN. Not quite living in a bubble yet. Oh, I'm Ryan Lambert, and I'm hearing that the New Jersey Devil

have signed freaking Willie de Jardin is their freaking coach this year Sean McAnew from the Athletic There it is

you bought it up we'll just talk about it first before we get to Udels of return to play in collective bargaining fun Kevin Weeks

insider Hockey Insider Kevin Weeks breaks the news yesterday that Tom Fitzgerald has politically maneuvered his way into retaining the general manager's gig that he was serving on on an interim basis, which is great, because the bar was set at, don't ruin the team, and he had a pretty decent trade deadline.

Yeah. So, yeah, and also, like, if you're going to have to rebuild again, not the worst thing in the world to have somebody who's familiar with the organization doing it. well-respected guy. And, you know, like I've talked about before, like the Brian McClellan situation in Washington gave me a good working example on how you can elevate somebody from a regime that you considered to not have worked. And it could be okay that that person could take over and be a good GM.

Do we like Fitsy? I know a lot of reporters do because he's a good source. you know, it's definitely a situation where you go, I don't know, maybe. It's probably fine. And the other thing to say about it, obviously, is this, you know, him now being the GM solves that whole thing. We were hearing a week or two or about, a week or two ago about where, you know, he was saying, well, you might not, like, we might hire a GM after we hire the coach. And everybody was like, well, that seems insane. And nobody shouldn't let you do that.

Now they don't have to worry about it. It's fine. Yeah, I mean, I like Tom Fitzgerald as a GM. He's put his time in. He's been one of those candidates who you've heard discussed for. A real Jason Botterill type. Well, that's the thing. A real Paul Fettin-esque guy.

Those are the two guys that kind of, like, that's sort of put a dent in this idea that, you know, that you do your time as an assistant and then you'll step in and be fine. But, you know, that doesn't mean that he can't succeed. And he did get a little bit of an on-the-job audition and seem to do fine. And, you know, I've written about this. It's for all the talk about the NHL being an old boys club, when it comes to GMs, I wouldn't say there's new blood coming in because it's not like they're going like really out of the comfort zone

on a hiring like this, but there's not a lot of guys who get second GM jobs. It seems to be a kind of thing where it's next guy up unless you're one of the really well-established names. And Tom Fitzgerald was one of the next guys up and the devil's head him. They gave him a chance to see what he could do. They liked what they saw. This makes as much sense as anything, especially under the circumstances where you want to get someone in place. This is a really good point. Like the days of courting your Brian Burks.

Yeah. Brian Murray, Bobby Clark, guys who would be the GM of four different teams in a 20-year period, that doesn't exist anymore. It's basically there are guys, if you've won a cup, you'll probably get a second job. If you've done your previous job for like 10 years, you probably will get a second job. If you've been a GM for five years and you didn't win, that's probably it. It's probably won and done. There's not a lot of guys out there who are getting second chances, as opposed to how it still works in the coaching ranks where it's very much not that way. But let's pause on that.

Like the last three guys that were huge, big-name general managers that got, I guess four guys that I'm thinking of. you got Lula Morello who's considered by some to be the greatest general manager maybe in the history of the game you have Steve Eiserman

who went from Tampa to Detroit for obvious reasons you had Ken Holland who went from Detroit to Edmont for Steve Eiserman reasons and then you had George McPhee who took over an expansion team after a really good

run in Washington that just didn't result in a cup. So it happens. It does. And you're right. Chuck Fletcher as well. Chuck Fletcher was another. But he had been GM for a really long time. What you don't see are what you used to see are the guys who come in do the job for five years, get fired. And then someone else goes, oh, you've been an NHL GM. Okay, you should be near the top of our list. Like there's, you know, the John Ferguson's of the world don't get second chances. And it's, and like I've written about this because it's got to, if I've noticed it, I'm sure NHLGMs have noticed. I'm sure like the Mark Bergervans of the world are like looking around going, if I get fired, this is probably it. Like I'm not necessarily getting

another shot at this and does that affect your decision making. So yeah, I don't know. And it's, it's one of those things. It wasn't this way for a long time. It became this way. Since I originally wrote that piece, I mean, Eisenman was a different situation. Flesher was right on the borderline. maybe it's swinging back. Maybe it's, you know, and maybe if Fitzgerald fails, people go, you know, Fenton, Bauderil, Fitzgerald, we got to stop looking at assistance and either go in a radically different direction or start going back to the guys that we know can do the job. I, you know, I don't know. It's just, it's interesting to look and see where the pendulum is at right now, even if it's just in mid-swing.

I think that's a really good point. I think if it's Gerald fails, then we have to stop looking at assistance from the David Poe's. Royal Race Euro-G-M-Tree is what you're trying to say. Potentially, yeah. Fenton, Rotterill, Fitzgerald. Yeah, tough look for Bill Guerin. So the thing you were mentioning and the thing that Ryan joked about off the top of the show is... How are you doing, buddy?

Apparently, Lindsay Ruff is going to be the new head coach, the New Jersey Devil. So here's what I know, because it's pretty. fun when you put something out in the world about wondering openly how, you know, Peter LaVuette, who I think is the best coach not currently in a gig. And Gerard Gallant, your mileage may vary, but obviously, Bruce Boudreux. Bruce Boudreux. Yeah, Bruce Boudreux. Well, they interviewed Lovillette and Galant. I don't know if they interviewed Boudreau, but like, but those are three coaches that are out there in the world and also Lindy Ruff was. And so I put a,

out in the world that I wasn't really all that thrilled with the idea of, like, Peter LaVuette or Gerard Gallant not getting this job and Lindy Ruff getting it. And I had, I mean, it was like, it was like a beehive fell from a tree and all the bees started buzzing. Like, I had so many people reach out to me being like, dude, here's what happened. And they were all telling me the same story. So I'll share it with you. Peter LaVuette either priced himself out of the job or they didn't want to meet his price point. I could see both things happening. I think in the case of the latter,

it's clearly because the devils know that they're entering another rebuild, and maybe you don't want to pay a guy that amount of money to just babysit for a year or two. So from that aspect, you can kind of understand it, but from the other aspect, like, he's clearly the... I think he's the best coach available. You could say Boudreau.

That's either or or is fine, but I think he's a cut above everybody else. In Galant's case, it gets a little more complicated. But I heard from a couple people that the same kind of thing that he ran into in Florida and in Vegas, where he wanted to have total control over every aspect of coaching and not have any input on lineups and stuff from hockey operations was expressed in his meetings with the, with the devils, and the devils are obviously trying to do things a little bit differently. They've got a very strong analytics department with Matt Cain and Tyler Delo. And I don't think that they necessarily wanted to grant Gerard the autonomy that he was looking for.

That's how it was explained to me by a couple of different people. And so maybe that's the case, maybe not, but that's at least what's out there. And Lindy Ruff was affordable. Let's be honest. That's one of the reasons why Lindy Ruff is going to be the head coach of the Devils is that he's going to cost less than lovely let and Galant. The Devils are a bad hockey team that will not be good for a couple seasons. The Devils did not make a lot of money this season, I don't think, necessarily,

and probably won't next season because the team is going to be bad. And also, nobody's allowed to attend their games. It's probably going to be able to. No, he's allowed to attend their games. That's true, too. The owners of the devils want to buy the Mets or whatever, I don't know. But, like, he was a cost-effective move and a veteran move. And I guess my only question is, besides why Lindy Ruff,

and Corey Massacic, our good friend from The Athletic, has been putting out there in the world some, you know, fairly impressive stats from his run in Dallas as far as their offensive numbers. Lindy's got this reputation to be in a defensive lockdown guy, but maybe that's not necessarily the right reputation to give him. My only question is, if you watch the fucking Rangers this year, right folks? Come on now, Adam Fox. He did something there or whatever.

But the thing that bothers me is that if you're going to just get a placeholder for this team, unless you really believe that Lindy Ruff is like the defenseman whisperer and like he can turn Ty Smith into Scott Yudemeyer or some shit. Like, why not just give the gate Elaine Nezardine for a couple years? Like, who cares? If you're going to have a write-off for a couple seasons, reasons. And hiring Lindy Rough kind of feels that way. I don't know about anybody else in this fucking podcast, but it kind of feels that way for me. Just keep the guy you have and say,

we're fucked for a little bit and go from there. I don't know. That's sort of my take on it. Yeah, I think that's right. I, you know, I don't think anybody watched the Rangers this year and said, no, this guy, you know, this guy who's running their defense, he's doing a great job. Yeah, like, like, I think, I think that's a fair thing to say. And I think that, you know, when he was the coach in Dallas, I don't think anybody was looking at that Dallas team going, this is a team that defends really well. They were, I feel like, viewed as a team that was going to win a lot of five to four games, you know? And, you know, do the devils have that kind of personnel? No.

So there's like, there's no Jamie, like, I. I love Nico Heeshire, but he's not Jamie Ben or Tyler Sagan in terms of offensive numbers. And, you know, maybe Jack Hughes becomes that two or three years from now. But, you know, I think the big, the big, I think the big, the big, the big thing you got to say about Lindy Ruff is like, when's the last time you went, oh, yeah, he was the guy that shepherded this really exciting young player into the league. and they were super successful and blah, blah, blah. I can't think of anybody off the top of my head, that's for sure. And so if you're doing the rebuild coach thing, which I think is a reasonable step to take with the devils,

they're not going to be good for a few years, regardless of who's coaching them. I really don't know why Lindy Ruff is that guy. Other than, as you say, he came relatively cheap because he's currently an assistant. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jamie Ben was 25 when he won the Art Ross under Lindy Ruff,

but he had been in the league for quite a while. Yeah, since he was like 19. He wasn't, yeah, he didn't break in under that, under Lindy Ruff. So that point holds. I was a little bit, I don't love the hire, especially given the other names that are out there. I mean, if you're a Devils fan and those bigger, probably almost certainly better names are,

out there. I can understand why this feels disappointing. But I was a little bit surprised at the amount of pushback I seem to see. And maybe this is just me being on Twitter and getting a different slice of what the feedback was. But there seemed to be more pushback than I thought. Like, Lindy Rough is a good coach. Lindy Rough has, he's coached two teams, both of them fairly successfully. Other than the year, the bad year in Dallas that got him fired, you looked down on this guy's resume, it's all like 40 win seasons, 50 win seasons, 90, 100, 110 points on granted some good teams, but, you know, you still got to get them there. He's 60 years old, so he's certainly not some young

up-and-comer, but he's, you know, that's well within the range of what NHL coaches tend to be. And he last coached in 2017. Like some of the feedback makes it sound like they pulled this guy out of a Crip somewhere and he hadn't coached in 20 years. He was coached three years ago. He was a very successful coach four years ago. So I can understand why if you're Tom Fitzgerald and you're new to the job and you've got young players, you're a new GM,

there's probably going to be a lot of new faces, just in the organization. I can understand why you'd want a steady veteran hand for this job. And again, the Peter Lavillettes of the world would have fit that description too. But I get it, you know, as far as why not Elaine Nazardine? I mean, just like Tom Fitzgerald, he had half a season to show what he can do. Maybe they just, maybe they saw it and they didn't, they weren't feeling it. Maybe they didn't feel like that, you know, he didn't do enough, not just in terms of results on the ice,

because the roster was obviously a mess by that point, but, you know, maybe whatever they saw made them think that this isn't our guy going forward. So, you know, I don't, obviously, if I'm a Devils fan, I'm hoping it's going to be Galant or LaVuilette or Boudreau, but I don't hate this. And I'm surprised at the level of animosity towards it that I saw from some corners.

It reminds me of when Lou LaMrillo would just kind of throw a veteran coach in there. and see what happens. But we'll see. Listen, just like with the McKenzie Blackwood thing, which I was very wrong about, I'd love to be wrong about this too. I'd love for him to come in and, you know, transform a bad team into something respectable. I just, I'm one of those Devils fans that was little bummed. It wasn't one of the coaches that was available. That was a little bit of a higher cut of a stake.

And, you know, it's, it is what it is. I will say, though, that, you know, I think this is another check in the column of hockey nepotism in the sense that Tom Fitzgerald played for Lindy Ruff for a few seasons in Florida like 20 years ago. I mean, yeah, it's just, and it's funny, like Andrew Walker, I don't know where he's even on the radio anymore, but he took a run at me last night, and his Hilda Diann apparently is, just because he played for Lindy Ruff doesn't mean he should be disqualified. I'm like, she shouldn't be disqualified. I'm simply pointing out that yet a fucking again,

the old boys club churns out another, you know, random connection that ends up with somebody getting a job. I think that's maybe a little unfair to say, just in terms of, you know, if you're a coach who's coached, like how many guys in the league has Lindy Ruff coached? And so the real problem is that, like, the only people who get hired for any jobs are ex-players.

for the most part, right? And so, like, you're going to end up, you know, it's the same thing of, oh, you know, he coached this guy in junior, blah, blah, blah. Like, everybody coached every, like, every coach has coached 50 NHL players, and statistically one of those NHL players is going to end up running a front office. Oh, that's completely right. So, like, that, you can, no, it's completely random. No, it's completely random that Peter LaVuette, Gerard Gallant,

and, like, Bruce Vodromeau never coached Tom Fitzgerald, but the guy who did got the job. It's kind of weird. We're really wild. Do you think he's like, you know, fuck, a quarter century ago, I was, I was really feeling what Lindy Ruff was selling me. Yes. Okay. All right. I don't understand what.

Hold on. You are the first person to always point out the old boys club bullshit in this league. Right. This is the exception? No. What? No. I'm saying that, like, you can, you can draw the little lines from A to B on, you know, just about every higher in the league.

And right, because they're all nepotism. That's the point. Like, that's the point of trying to make. They're all guys that knew a guy in a former job. Fuck, Tom Fitzgerald got two jobs because of Ray Shiro. Like, it's all that. That's what this is. I don't, I'm just, all I'm saying is 25 years is a long time for him to go, you know what?

Putting aside everything else we've learned about Lindy Ruff in the last 25 years, He was nice to me when I played a season and a half for him on the Florida Pan. Like, I don't know. I think, I think just in terms of all the other stuff you said, all the other stuff you said about Lavie, Lavillette wanting too much money and Galant wanting. Guy makes a good, hold on, guy makes a good impression. You follow his career for the next 25 years.

You're like, you know what, that dude was really solid when I played for him and he's become a really good coach. if I ever had a chance to hire him, I bet I would. That's all it is. It's not because, you know, fucking Lindy Ruff got him a coffee one day in sunrise. It's merely that he has a personal connection with the guy,

probably followed his career, and was like, hey, this dude's available. I'd love to work with him. I just think it's more of the stuff you said about Lavillette was too expensive. Gallant wanted too much input. I don't, you know, I don't know why he did or didn't interview Bruce Boudro. I just think that, like,

if his, to, say that his principal reason for hiring Lindy Ruff was he coached me for 88 games in 1994. I think that's a bit hard to believe versus all the other stuff you have said, which makes a lot more sense to me on the higher decision front. I would hope it's not. But again, like, no one's saying it's the principal reason. It's never the principal reason in any of these things, but it's a factor. And it's always a factor.

And we're basically arguing the same thing, which is that it's a constant churning mill of the same names over and over again. And part of the reason why is because of hockey nepotism. Sure. Yeah. All right. I wish we'll endy rough luck. I don't want the doubles to be horrible, even though it kind of looks like it might be that way. I don't think that's a Lindy rough decision to make.

No, it's not. As we saw in the second part of this season, it's very much a McKenzie Blackwood decision. He's the only thing that's going to keep them from being fucking garbage for the next year or so. But we press on. Hey, as you're listening to this podcast, players are voting to approve a new CBA and all the return to play protocols. It made it pass the executive board. Do you boys see the graphic that the NHLPA created to announce that the executive board had passed the CBA? CBA stuff. Did you see that graphic they sent out?

Graphic design is their passion. So the graphic, the best way I could describe it, Sean, is the graphic the NHLPA sent out looked like the menu, a trendy American gastropub would create. I'm looking at it now. Holy smokes. Yeah, it's got all the little squares of information. And it's like executive board passes CBA and also return to play goes to players now for total body vote. It's pretty fucking tremendous.

I really enjoyed it. It's like the lyric videos on YouTube, like from 2008, where they were getting really like, oh, I'm going to make this next screen. The font's going to be a little different. Just so people don't think we're exaggerating. Like this, just one corner, it says the secret ballot vote will be conducted electronically. It's got the word thee is in a special graphic and font. Secret ballot vote is all big and bold.

Willby is smaller and underlined. Conducted changes colors. There's a picture of a ballot box in the middle of all this, and then electronically has its own font and outline and a little graphic of like a microchip sort of deal. Yeah, it's in, it should have been in the, uh, the freaking like calculator font, you know, like the digital clock font, you know? Right, right.

Do you think they did this to the players understand? What's going on? If they, it would just... At least the CHL guys, right? If they did that... If they just wanted to play, it just would be the word escrow with a circle and a Ghostbuster line through it,

and that would be it. And people would be like, oh, yes. Did Ghostbusters invent that thing? Because I hear people say that all the time. No, didn't, didn't... Wasn't the Ghostbusters symbol, like, the no-smoking symbol? It's no smoking.

We did that, no. Yeah, that makes sense, I guess. All right, you know what, guys, I tried to make one pop culture reference, so fine. You know what? No, I was asking. I was asking. I don't know. I've seen six movies.

I tried to reference one of them, and, you know, you could attack me, so fine. But the Ghostbusters 2 did invent a ghost holding up two fingers. That's true. And you can't say until that point. Which was the invention of the peace sign. Not a lot of people know that. Right. It was.

That's right. John Lennon. saw that and he's like, oh, well, I guess he was dead by that point, I think. Forget it. Which makes him what? A ghost. Thank you. He's it together.

God damn it. Why wasn't there a John Lennon ghost walking through Times Square in the Ghostbusters? Maybe there was. Maybe there was. Melissa McCarthy could shoot him with a ghost gun. I'm not saying the ghost from the Ghostbusters 2 logo was John Lennon, but I'm not not. They were at least friends. I think we can all agree.

I've never seen them both in the same room at the same time. I'm just going to say that. I mean, read the lyrics to instant karma, people. You'll understand exactly what Sean's talking about. Imagine Vigo the Carpathians? What, no? We all shine on like the moon and the stars and the sun, because you're a ghost. All right.

What do you want to talk about first? CBA or return to play? Let's go CBA. All right. brass tax, $81.5 billion cap next season. The only way it starts moving is if we get back to the revenue levels that were projected for this season. So everybody you have talked to said, possibility we have an $81.5 million cap for two seasons. And that's, I mean, that's real bad.

Or more, right. I've heard three seasons from more people. Yeah, three seems. And, well, because based on the way they're going to calculate it, two, it's like taking both the upcoming year and the season two years prior into account. It's kind of two years prior and then the estimates of the prior season, which would have been completed, but you don't know the revenues yet. So, like, it's going to be rooted in years with low revenues for quite a while, it seems like. And so, yeah, like, the idea that the cap is going to maybe go up like five or six percent over the life of this CBA is not, like, totally outrageous.

And it's also not completely unfathomable that it could, the cap could stay flat for almost the entire deal or at least to stay close enough to flat that the owners. That it's effectively flat or that the, because, I mean, it's going to start off, even starting at 81.4. the players are getting more than their 50%, and that's that they have to figure out, because they had two options. Either the salary cap drops to like 60 or 70 million and it's Armageddon for everyone, or it stays high, but now you're breaking the 50-50 linkage and you have to figure out how you get that money back. The owners are going to try to get all their money back by the end of the deal.

I'm not even convinced that they will, but certainly in some view, this, from a player's perspective, they are borrowing against their future earnings to make sure that their salaries and their cap doesn't plummet over the next few years, but they're going to pay that back towards the end of the deal, which is if you're a player in the prime of your career, that may seem like a reasonable move. If you're at the end of your career, that's great, because you might not be around when the bill comes due. If you're someone who's just entering the league, I wonder how you feel about everybody creating this situation when you're on an entry-level deal and when your big contract kicks in, suddenly you're going to be getting a big chunk of that clod back

to pay for guys today. Yeah, Larry Brooks noted that, you know, we could be stuck with a relatively flat cap until like 2025, maybe. And at that point, there's only like, you know, one in every 10 players in the league is signed up to that point and a bunch of guys who would

make an absolute shitload of money against the you know against the cap in free agency they're just not

going to be able to do that now we're talking like your Colton Perakos and Seth Joneses and Zach Werenski's Matt Cichucks blah blah blah

like you can just go down the list and there's this huge number of guys where you're like oh that's like an $8 million player That's like a seven and a half million dollar player. But the thing that he's not accounting for, or maybe he is and he's just underestimating it, is the revenue bump from the US TV deal. How much more do you think it's going to be, though?

Like, if they have two different networks, a lot more. Maybe, maybe if there's two different networks. But I, there are going to be. I mean, I don't know what the situation is with mine, obviously. It's well above my pay grade, as I tell everybody. But the one thing I've heard constantly for the last few. few, like 10 years on this, the CBA that we've been on, is that the next TV deal is going to be multiple networks.

So they're definitely going to make a, that's the reason why Batman wanted to get this thing done is so that they can go out and start negotiating these, these things. Oh, sure. No, I understand. What I'm saying is, you know, again, we're, we're, the problem with the saying, oh, well, when Seattle comes into the league, dot, dot, dot is, well, then you got to start dividing all that revenue by 32 teams and not 31. And then it's like, oh, right, right, right.

So that's not maybe, you know, well, they're going to, they're going to be on the higher end, probably, of revenue teams in the league. But are they going to be top 10? Yes. You think so? I think they are. Yes. I was told, I remember the day that they announced the team, somebody with one of the other teams, I was talking to them and he's just like, this is going to be a top 10 revenue team. Like literally said that to me.

Is this going to the top 10 revenue team? And I also think that, you know, part of the equation for the revenues they're going to generate is, is like gear sales and things like that are going to be, you know, put into the hop or two. I mean, it may not be like enough to fucking elevate the salary cap, but it's going to be a good chunk of money. But those are the two things that they've talked about internally that, you know, could could sort of stem the tide a little bit on the revenue losses is the US TV contract in Seattle. thing. Whether that's going to be enough to trigger the cap rising, I don't know. The thing that's going to probably trigger the cap rising is a vaccine. I mean, like if we're being honest, right? So, but I don't, I don't share that view that it's going to be like 2024 before the cap rises again. I think it's going to be before that, but I do definitely think it's going to be at least the next two

seasons. Well, the other problem is how many contracts are built or structured. Like, The example I used when I was writing the newsletter yesterday was Washington, right? Washington signed all these deals. Oh, the Nick Lidsroom, the Nick Baxter deal, you know, sure, it's a lot now, but like, by the end of that deal, it's only going to be 7.5% of the cap instead of, you know, nine and a half and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, now, probably not. Now it's, you might get it down to 8.5. But, you know, and there's a ton of teams that are just faced. like this huge cap crunch, not next year or the year after, like in 2023, that teams are

going to be like, oh, we only have like $20 million to spend on nine guys or whatever it is. And I don't know, man, I think it's going to be, I think it's going to be real tough out there for a lot of guys who are expecting to cash in at 27, 28. Yeah. Yeah. And especially for the ones who aren't the real. elite levels. Like, we don't know, I'm not sure how this is going to affect a guy like a Taylor Hall who has a

heart trophy on his resume and isn't coming off a great season, but was expected to be, you know, a big time ticket. I could still see the argument that when you get to a certain level, some teams, you're not going to maybe be able to be picky about where you wind up as he would have been, but some team somewhere will find a way to make it work. But the guys the next level down, like the guys who were going to sign like the James Neal, like I'm... Five and a half. I'm a steady second line guy, so I want five and a half or six.

I mean, it feels like we've been saying this ever since 2005 that the CBA squeezes the middle class, but it's going to really squeeze on a lot of these guys, especially when it comes to new deals. And maybe that means we just see a bunch of guys signing extensions and just being like, I don't even want to go to the market because there's going to be a lot of guys every year. And, I mean, this happens under the previous CBAs too, but especially this one. Like, it's a game of musical chairs, and there's not a lot of chairs. And there's going to be a lot of guys left at the end having to either take minimum deal somewhere or go somewhere else because there's just not going to be enough jobs. How much do you think, like Alex Petrangelo is like, fuck, I should have signed last summer.

God damn it. Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, like, just let the blues worry about it. I'm just, I'm really fascinated by the Taylor Hall thing. I've been fascinated by it for a long time. But like, he's the guy that should sign a short-term deal, right? Like, go someplace, try to win a cup in the next couple seasons. Yeah, I've seen a lot of people saying like, oh, he should just go to Colorado.

He doesn't have to be the star there, you know, all that kind of stuff. Just go, yeah. Just like, like you've spent your fucking life, you know, on the. the fringes because your teams have been horrible. But he's been pretty adamant about looking for something long term, which is completely his right. I mean, if you want to find that and someone can maneuver the money for you, whatever, but like, listen, if I was in his shoes, go someplace for two seasons, take your, like,

somewhat big money deal to go play with a really good team and try to put them over the top and then, you know, get a little bit of a long-term deal after that. But I guess, you know, then you're two years older, right? So then what does that deal look like? I don't know. I really feel bad for him, to be quite honest. Like, I really feel fucking shitty for Taylor Hall that he finally gets a crack at this and potentially was going to be the bell of the ball.

And it happens in a situation where A, there's a flat cap and B, nobody has any money anyway. It's crazy. Yeah. Like the bad luck, apart from winning draft lotteries, the bad luck Taylor Hall has had in his career is staggering. It's staggering. Yeah. All right. The escrow, we're not going to go too deep in escrow because people just literally will.

shut off the show. Fans don't care about escrow. All you need to know about escrow is they figured out something that made the players happy enough to get to a deal that leads to the stuff you do care about. Right. But the only really interesting thing for me was the 10%

salary deferral that they're doing next season, which gives the owners more cash on hand and also protects that money from being basically taxed at a 20% rate. Because all the money that's collected for escrow next season is to go to the owners, like, immediately, pretty much.

So the idea that they hold on to that money and get it back in a few years, I thought was, like, it was like one of those moments of cooperation and logic that you don't expect to find in an NHL negotiation. But it was interesting to see. Like, it's not a rollback, but kind of maybe is, but also you get your money back. So that was pretty fucking cool. I didn't mind that at all. To my mind, there's, I'll tell you the two things that I think are the biggest news on this,

because I'm writing a piece that's going to go up in a few days on, like, my view of what this means for the fan. Because we're going to get a million breakdowns of who wins and loses between the players and the owners and what does it mean for the bottom line and all this. I don't care. I want to know, like, as someone who watches the league, how is this going to affect things? And the number one and the obvious thing is the fact that they just got a deal done. You know, they actually, we have a new CBA without, I mean, without a work stoppage, without a lockout. Obviously, the circumstances are bizarre.

And it's both, it's both, you know, it's a positive, obviously, that they got this deal done. It's also frustrating, in a sense, because you're sitting there looking at all the previous lockouts going, really, you guys can do a CBA in like two weeks if you actually put your mind to it and you're actually motivated to get a deal and not, there's no time for grandstanding and all this other stuff. They just got it done. But they did get it done, and I'm happy for that. The other biggest piece of news is how little is actually changed. changing in this new CB.

Put the return to play aside. This is almost, this is 95% the same CBA that we already had. It's, and, and, you know, how many things have we talked about over the last few years that the league could do, either because, you know, somebody says, I've got an idea, or here's a thing that another league does, or here's a problem that I think that this league needs to solve. They did virtually none of that. Like, there's a couple of tweaks here and there, entry level deals move around, a little bit. There's some tweaks around cap recapture and no trades. But it is, I mean,

it's, I keep saying tweaks. That's what it is. There is not anything in here. Once you get past the initial sticker shock of return to play and the fact that they got the CBA tied to it, there's nothing in here that feels like a big idea. There's nothing in here that feels like a game changer. It's 95% the same deal we already had, which, you know, in some sense, it's reassurance that, you know, I guess maybe this league was on the right track. This is still the same CBA basically from 2005. I guess that maybe losing that whole season was worth it because we got stability. It would have been frustrating to lose a season and then have the league say this isn't working

and we got to blow it up again. But man, like if you understand the CBA that we had last year, you're pretty much there for this one. There's nothing in here that registers as much more. than like little small shifts here and there as a fan. It's basically the same thing you're already used to. I thought, and you're right, and I think that one of the reasons why it got done, I mean, obviously I think the global pandemic greased the skids

to try to get this thing done as quickly as possible. But there wasn't the overwhelming, overriding issue that the owners had that was going to cause a lockout. Yeah, but there wasn't in 2013 either. and we still lost half a season. And, you know, in 2013, the big thing was getting to 50-50, and everybody knew they were going to wind up at 50-50. And yet, we still lost half a season because at that point,

that was just how this league worked. The owners had stashed some money away, and I had someone say to me, and maybe this is it. They're like, the owners, whenever it's time for a lockout, the owners stashed some money away, and this pandemic means it burned through their stash. So they actually had to get a deal done. And maybe that's...

Well, it's also... I've also heard from people that they don't mind lockouts because nobody goes to games in October and November. Well, I got news for who's going on games for the next year or so. The tweaks, though, that you've talked about are really fascinating. Because I always love when the CBA comes out and there's shit in there that I'd never even thought of. Like, we've had these major trades in the last few years where Eric Carlson goes to San Jose. Matthew Sheen goes to Columbus Taylor Hall goes to the Cowdies

and in each trade there's a conditional draft pick in play where if the player signs with that new team then the other team gets the pick and it never really, I always thought that that was a good thing because essentially it was another bargaining

a bargaining chip a team can throw on the table to win a derby to get a player right but the PA's stance was well fuck that like it restricts our ability to sign with that team then. It'll create like a little roadblock. In Matthew Shane's case, I mean, it was a complete non-starter to ever bring him back if you were going to have to give up another first-round pick. So they fixed that. They got rid of those conditional picks. And I thought

that was interesting. I'd ever really thought of it from the other side of the equation. And it is the right thing to do because you're right. I mean, if you're, if you're a star player and you get traded to a team and you're trying to negotiate an extension and that team knows that if they sign you to an extension, they lose a first round pick, that, yeah, that does put an anchor on what they're willing to offer you. And it's, so, yeah, I didn't, I, again, I don't, I wouldn't consider that a major change, but it was, yeah, I mean, there are, there are some small details in there that are interesting, and that's, that's one of them.

The fact that they fixed the absolutely indefensible fact that players could lose the no trade clauses if they were traded before they kicked in, the P.K. Subant thing. It's insane. It's insane that it took this to fix that and that they didn't just look at it and go, I mean, the fact that a player could negotiate something in their contract and have it not carry over after they were traded was terrible. They sort of, I won't even say they fixed cap recapture. They changed it, but not in a way that fixes it. Yeah, fix the recapture is getting rid of it. Exactly.

And getting rid of it and also giving the Canucks their money back from this year and saying, you know what, sorry, we screwed up. Here's a cap credit for the, you know, three million or whatever it was they lost this year. They didn't do that. My favorite one is that they reworked the entry-level contracts and bonuses, including making more awards eligible for the bonus. You can now have in your contract that if you win the Mark Messier Leadership Award in your first three years in the league, you can get a bonus for that. an award that exists solely to recognize, like, old players who have been around forever

that we like. Yeah. Your bonus, if you're a 22-year-old who wins the Mark Messier Award, should be the franchise you play for. That's how unlikely it is that you're going to get that award. So I... The only way it could ever work is if, like, we had another, like, Igor Larianov coming to the league at, like, 37.

And he's already got the reputation of being, like, the greatest leader for his international team. Yeah. Then maybe he's got a chance as a movie. We're talking international leaders. I don't know about that, I think. Oh, that's true too, yeah. How many foreign, if you look back at the Messier, I think there's only like a few

foreign guys that have ever, foreign-born players that ever won it. You know, Greg, I can't off the top of my head pull up who has won the Mark Messier award, an award. You haven't, you don't know that. But, you haven't, you don't know that. But it's, first of all, it's presented by Bridgestone. I, I have heard that. One, two.

233. And they've been giving it out since 2006. Because I know Alfredson and Sundeen both won in the years that they abandoned their teams. Who's the last one? Come on. It's a pretty easy one if you think about, a current player. Was it a current player? Yeah.

Like who's a captain and a paragon of leadership on his team? Anticobert. Is it Ovechkin? No, it's got to be Charo, maybe? There it is. Exactly. That's aano Charra. Yeah. Yeah. I'll just read him for you.

Chelyos, Sundeen, Aginla, Crosby, Chara, Donne, Alfredson, Dustin Brown. All right. Jonathan Taves, Shea Weber, Nick Falino, Derek Engeland, for that speech. And Wayne Simmons. I'm not going to... I'm not going to say that Nick Falino is the cutoff

of when they started running out of players, but. The leader of the year is what it's for. Jesus Christ, that award. All right. Anything else in the CBA besides, wow, it's amazing. I guess one more thing, which Sean mentioned it, but like the fact that they're like, hey, rookies are getting a pay raise. 50 grand, what do you say, guys?

Like, what the fuck? And the NHL minimum wage will be up to 800,000 by the end of the season. I looked at it, and with the most recent changes that are going into effect next year, the NHL salary, or the rookie max has gone up like 9% since 2005, and the salary cap has gone up 109%. Right, yeah. It's bananas. But this is standard for not just the NHL, but all sports leagues.

They always screw over the entry-level guys win these sorts of negotiations, because the thinking is they're not in the union yet, So, you know, sorry Alexis LeFrenier, you were, the fact that they nudged it up a little bit is, I guess, something. Let me put it this way. It didn't even keep up with inflation over the last 15 years. Like, it didn't even actually come close to keeping up with inflation. So look, the big winner here is the luxury tax. Because for those of us who, you know, suffered through fucking 2005 and said, you know, show some backbone.

don't allow a hard cap, go for the luxury tax. You know, the players folded. They got curb stomped. They had to deal with the cap. Of course, now fast forward 15 years, the players have to basically save the league by agreeing to an artificial cap number because if it's linked to revenue and there's no revenue, you're absolutely fucked. And I'm sorry, like, I saw a graphic the other day after the first.

the Pat Mahomes contract of how much the top player in each league makes and commiserate with the NHL's revenues before the pandemic. Like, the idea that the top NHL player makes, like, a slim fucking fraction of what the top players in other sports makes is insane. It's not insane, though. I mean, this is a sport nobody cares about. But the insane thing to me is we're sitting here in 2020, and the highest, you know, we're sitting here in 2020, and the highest.

paid player as far as their annual salary is Connor McDavid at 12.5 million. Before the lockout way back in 2005, it was the Aramari Agar at like 11 point something. So the fact that not only over 15 years, but over the 15 years that revenues exploded in pro sports, the fact that the highest paid NHL player has basically had an inflation raise is crazy. And that's the cap system. I mean, that's the absolutely the cap system. which again, you know, was under the auspices of like we need to do this to save our shaky franchises and yada, yada, yada. And I mean, there's some virtue to that.

The players seem okay with it. Because they could have. The players absolutely could have this. They were never going to have more leverage. And they absolutely could have said to the league, wait a second, you've spent the last 15 years telling us that you desperately need to be linked to revenue, et cetera. So why are we going to help you out now? Why are we going to change it around now? Obviously, it would have come at a cost to them,

and it would have meant no return to play. But they had the leverage. If they really wanted to, this was, if they wanted to pay back from 2005, they absolutely could have. Obviously they don't. And that's, you know, from a fan's perspective, that's good.

You don't, you want the players and the owners to at least be partially partners. And the fact that this could have been a war and the fact that it wasn't, it's a positive. I think that there's a difference between being okay with the salary cap and having no stomach to fight to change it, which I think is the real issue. Like they know that essentially the NHLPA... Practically, I'm not sure there's a difference.

I think there is. I mean, I'm sure there's probably a lot of guys who are just like fuck the cap, but they know inherently that every time they've stepped up and try to take the fight to Gary Bettman or be in a fight with Gary Betman. They've gotten their locks out. Yeah. And they've gotten their heads capped in because they can't... Because the NHLPA is such a, it's like the fucking, we are, you know, it's a small world of players associations. Like, you have guys from all over the world with all different senses of what labor negotiations should look like. You have all different ages of guys that, older guys, family.

Same deal with talking about return to play. It is a very, very hard union to get everybody on the same page. It's this thing they've always struggled about on all these issues, get everybody on the same page and fight for one issue. And I just think they don't have the stomach to have the fight. Because you're right. If they did, they would have done it this summer. Because they're never going to have more leverage than they have. So this is it that they, you know, for all the talk in 2005 about how they would never, ever, ever play under a cap.

They seem okay with it enough. And yeah, and look, at the same time, you know, I'm sitting here saying they had the leverage. They could have got. If they had done that, they would be getting killed everywhere in the sports world for being. I mean, we saw what happened in baseball. and they did get a deal done. I mean, hockey, people would be screaming that this is the end of the NHL as something that anybody cares about if they're going to,

if they can't get a deal done, they can't come back, and the NBA is going to play, and baseball is going to be there, and football is going to be there, and screw the NHL, we're done with it. So I completely get why they looked at each other and went, this is not the place to have this fight, but this was their one of the chance to win the fight. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing we should say for the CBA is the Olympics is back, which is good.

Oh, yeah. Ending the IOC deal, but yeah. The Olympics is back, except they were definitely going to go to one of them because it's in freaking China. So all this, the big pull here is, oh, we're going to freaking Milan, baby. Can't wait. You know what? I'll say this. There's a reason that Gary Bettman gets his eight or nine or ten million bucks a year. the fact that he was able to take something that was so obviously in the league's benefit

and so obviously something the league wanted to do and turn it into a major concession for the players. This guy's good at this. And we all saw it play out. We all knew exactly what was happening and what he was doing. But I saw it referenced as, you know, they're going back to that. That's a major win for the players. That's a major concession by the league for something that he wanted.

wanted in the first place, that's good negotiating. You got to give them that. That's also good negotiating to show the IOC exactly what happened in the Olympics. The NHL wasn't there for, which is that nobody gave a fuck about men's hockey, like outside of Russia. I think they accomplished what they wanted to accomplish by skipping insofar as negotiating with the IOC. But again, like, I know Renee Fasal, you know, as pre-usual, was optimistic about there being a deal now between the NHL and the IOC, but it really does come down to, like, the basic things they're looking for and whether the IOC has moved on them. I've heard they have, but it remains to be seen.

But the thing I was shocked about is that the NHL had been making a lot of noise about, okay, you can have the Olympics if we get this larger international calendar done of World Cups and Rider Cups and all this other shit. And they told me they just didn't have time to figure it out, like during this part of the negotiation. I guess they'll do so in the larger document at some point, but I really thought that Olympics was going to be tied to, okay, give us X amount of World Cups where we keep all the money.

Oh, there's going to be, between now and the Milan Olympics, I think there's going to be at least one World Cup, right? Like, nobody's like, I don't know. It might happen. It might not. Everybody thinks that this is going to happen. They'll figure it out. Yeah, plus, I mean, like now with the revenue situation, like, let's do like fucking

35 outdoor games like six World Cups just go bad shit. Why not? Return to play. I wrote about it on Thursday in my column I'm absolutely fascinated by all the protocols for life inside the bubble.

I'm imagining pool parties. I'm imagining the hotel bars are going to be the greatest fucking scene you've ever seen as every team goes there for post game pops because there's nowhere else to go.

It's going to be interesting how this whole thing plays out. I also love the idea of everybody piling on school buses and going on field trips to golf courses and things of that nature, which is another thing that's spelled out in the protocols. I just can't help with picture all the players, like, gathering it around a school bus and being given, like, the same colored shirts with the phone number on it and everything. Like, it's field, you got the permission forms, everybody. Do we have, is Tyler Sagan here? Tyler?

Are you here? Everybody quiet on the bus. Joel Quentville's holding up a red flag that they all have to follow in single file into the golf course. Is Ryan here? Oh, you're all named Ryan. Awesome. They're singing freaking 99 balls of beer on the wall. All the CHL guys need help getting there. There it is.

It's a fascinating document. As I mentioned before, like I've been told. epidemiologists for the last few months that if you can test every day and you can make your bubble secure, i.e., don't interact with the general public in any significant way, that you could, in theory, pull this off.

And as I was reading the document, I'm like, this is exactly what they've been saying. If you follow these rules that the NHL put in place to a T, you might be able to pull this off. Now, do I wish that maybe there were some face shields on the ice? Yeah. Do I think it's nonsensical that the 11 coaches

that are 55 years and older are going to be behind the bench without masks on. Yeah, that's fucking nonsensical. But the rest of it was like the kind of in-depth thing that if you're a player, you're looking at and be like, all right, they seem to kind of know what the fuck they're doing.

Well, here's the real issue, I think, is they go, hey, once everybody gets to the conference finals, everybody's family is just going to show up, and that won't be a problem for anybody at all. That'll be fine, I think. Well, it's after they quarantine. So the families will have to, like, stay in their own hotel and do nothing or stay with the player and do nothing. But in theory, like they'll be tested and they won't infect them.

We'll see. But it's – but again, like I said, it's like – I love anything that the NHL steals from reality television. This is fucking what Survivor did in their first season, and it have done it every season subsequently. You get to a certain point in the competition, and you get to see your family again. It's like a carrot. It's like incentive. It's great. I love it.

It's, it's, yeah, the return to play is, I'm really not, I'm becoming less and less convinced that this is going to work, but it might. So either. It could. And, I mean, they're hell-bent on giving it a shot. The one, the, the things I found interesting in the return to play side is the fact that even though they're all agreeing to do this, there are a couple of basically escape clauses that if things go bad, not just in terms of, they, they haven't set a number as far as. as if we have this many positive tests on a team or in the league, we do this. They didn't go to that level of detail, but there was talk of, you know, if it's not safe to continue, and also if the, I can't remember what the phrase they use, but basically

if the integrity of the tournament is, the integrity, yeah, if like the integrity of the competition is impacted. Yeah, I mean, each team's going to have 30 guys, so in theory you could have 10 players test positive and off they go and you still got a team, but if those are your 10 best players and we're just watching HL teams play for the Stanley Cup. In theory, there is a scenario where they could say, you know what, it's not worth it.

I do think more and more that even if this is successful in the sense that we get to the end and somebody wins the Stanley Cup, I think we have to get our heads around the fact that all 24 teams might not make it through this. It is not impossible or even all that difficult to imagine a scenario where there could be an outbreak on a team

where that team has to leave the tournament. And that's going to be a really bizarre and controversial and whatever word you want to put on it situation. But that could add, I mean, the Leafs and Bruins could be heading into their annual game seven and eight guys on the Bruins test positive the day before the game. And all the Leafs fans are finally, like, finally, we fucking did it.

We beat them. And they still lose. And then, oh, but they stole it. But then, by the way, you know, okay, so the Bruins are withdrawing. The Leafs win by forfeit. But now also the Leafs have just been exposed to eight players who tested positive. So what happens to them? And where does that?

Like, there's a million scenarios here where I feel like, and maybe this is just, I'm just describing myself, but I was too caught up in the kind of binary, like it will work or it won't. And they will play this tournament and it'll go off the way they describe or it will grind to a halt. and, you know, maybe not. Like, we could lose, like, have an outbreak. Four teams have an outbreak, and they, I mean, we're seeing it kind of in, in some of the other leagues soccer and that where teams are drawing from tournaments. And that could happen in the NHL. And, you know, I don't know what you do about it other than to say, like, as fans, I think we have to start getting our heads around that this could happen.

And this might be something we have to deal with. You know, it's funny. I had never really, like, I knew in my head, oh, they didn't award the 1919th, Stanley Cup because the Spanish flu outbreak. Sure. Okay. What they don't tell you about that is they fucking tried. They got to game five of the Cup final.

And then like half the players on both teams got sick. And a guy died. And they don't tell you that part when they're talking about, oh, it's crazy. They had to not have the Stanley Cup one year. Yeah. Because the guy fucking died. And like, it's not, you know, you hate to think that this could happen. But like, it's a real possibility that, like, someone.

could get very, very sick, have their career ended because of complications from this. And like, we were just going to be like, ah, but you know what? Like that, he was just on one team. Yeah, I don't know. That is it. Like there's, you know, we talk about what if there's an outbreak? What if there's some team has a bunch of positives? And even in that, it's sort of baked in this assumption that we're talking about symptoms.

We're talking, you know, they're all going to be okay. And A, we don't know that. And B, we don't know the long-term effects. And I mean, that's the true nightmare scenario, like you said, is somebody dies. Because at that point, the whole thing shuts down. There's no, I can't conceive of them moving on under any circumstances if that happens. But what happens if a bunch of guys get mildly sick and you finish the tournament and then a year later, these guys all have permanent lung damage and their careers are threatened? And you're looking back going, what the hell did we do?

why did we put everyone in that situation? Why did we bring everyone into a scenario where that could happen? Man, I'm doing the finger thing that means money. Yes. But I mean, like, why did we do this? Why did we? Like, who's we, though? Because the players are going to have agreed to this.

And they could easily say we don't want to come back. We is all of us. And, you know, I understand that, that, you know, we, the fans, it's not like we could have all said, like, don't do it. And the league would have been like, okay. but, you know, Oh, no, no, we're behind the question. We're out of the, we're out of the equation. Like, we're watching it without TV, but we're not, we're not spending money to go see these games.

Yeah, we're out of the equation as far as, uh, as far as, uh, as far as the decision-making power. But, you know, we're, there's, there's, most of the fans are behind this and want to see it happen and want to see it succeed. And I think, yeah, I mean, it's not like, yeah, we can all get together and say shut it down and the league's going to do it. I could just see us in a situation looking back going, how did that ever seem like a good idea to all of us? Is it fair to say, is it, well, is it fair to say that the majority mindset for fans right now is, look, if it's there, we'll totally watch it,

but if they decided not to come back, that's cool too? Or do you think the majority feeling of fans is don't come back, or do you think the majority feeling of fans is you have to come back and it's stupid not to? Do you think there's like that middle ground thing is the majority? I don't know if there is... Yeah, I think you're probably right about that. I'm sure that someone has done like Harris polling or some shit like that

where it's like, you know, how do you feel about... I'll fucking Google it right now. Sports return COVID... The Quinnipiac poll said the majority of fans said whatever Trump wants. Well, that's kind of weird. It's very interesting. Crazy. I don't want to be cynical.

I feel like if you want to describe him, majority of you of hockey fans, it's that they want, they want hockey to come back, but they want to raise just enough red flags that if it all goes bad, they can point back and go, see, I was one of the people who didn't, who knew this was going to happen. I knew this was going to be a risk. How is this playing in Canada? How is it playing in Canada? Like, if I, if I picked up all the Canadian newspapers, like, what's the vibe as far as, like,

return to play? There is, they should come back. They shouldn't. I mean, there's, there's a lot of. hesitancy. There's obviously up here in Canada, we're certainly not out of the woods, but we're looking at what's happening in the States. And there's, you know, there have been, there's, there's a lot of concern. But at the same time, is there an uprising of up here of people saying, don't do it? I can't say there is. I think there's a lot of people, like I said, with some

trepidation, putting that out in the world, but also not taking the step of saying don't do it. And by the include myself in that group. I absolutely realize I'm describing myself when I say that. Yeah. So, okay, a CNN poll, and this is from May, so maybe things have changed, but a CNN poll found only 48% of 1,000-1 respondents believe professional sports leagues should play any games in 2020. 47% oppose a return, and 5% are unsure. So we're talking about 50-50, right down the middle, whether people should come back or the sports should come back or not. And again, maybe things have changed because this is a poll from May and things look very different today than they did in May, but like that's the most recent poll I could find quickly. I don't think they should do it. I think it's a fucking bad idea.

But will I watch if they do? Yeah, I mean, it's kind of my job, right? It's not only kind of your job, but you were like fucking over the fucking moon on that schedule that Emma. tweeted out this week as far as like when the games are well I mean just in terms of isn't that what we've been saying as uh hockey fans for years of like hey maybe they should make it so like all the games are staggered so you don't have to watch nine games that start at 7 p.m. on a Saturday every Saturday all season it's it's legitimately one of my favorite things about covering Olympic hockey is like you get there at like 11 at the arena and then you're leaving it like midnight

like you know there's obviously work around that to like writing and shit but like what an incredible thing to be able to like roll out of bed, you know, make a little breakfast or whatever, start fucking watching hockey and then just keep watching hockey. Yeah, when the- When the NCAA tournament's happening, it's the same thing. On the Saturday of the NCAA hockey tournament, there's like six games going on over the course of 10 hours, and there's some overlap, obviously, and like you're watching one game on the computer while you're watching another live and that kind of thing. but, like, you know, they stagger it enough that, like, intermissions don't overlap and that kind of thing. So that, why wouldn't that be the way you just do it all the time? I don't, you know.

I know. It's fucking dumb. I'm on Sean. I'm with Sean on this. Like, I, so I think that they can come back and do this. And they could even finish it. I know that that shit in MLS and everywhere is kind of scary. But, like, I've had enough people tell me that they could do this.

that I think that it's at least worth a chance to try. What I am worried about, curious, about, baffled about is what happens when in game three of the first round of the round of 16, Nathan McKinnon test positive for COVID, right? And like, what happens then? What happens to the team? Because part of the equation is contact tracing, right? If you have a conversation for 15 minutes with somebody six feet away, which most teammates probably will, you've got to get tested, you've got to be isolated in theory.

Like, I don't think the document spells out some things about how this will all play out, but I don't think I've really have a concept for how this is all going to play out if somebody tests positive, what that means for the team. And God forbid what it means if it is like an essential player on the team where, you know, the fucking golden nights are in the playoffs and Oscar Danks, because. all of a sudden they're starting goaltender because fucking Flurry and Lanner both tested positive or some shit. Yep. Like I can't conceive of that quite yet. And, you know, in fairness, I don't think we're saying that they should have every scenario mapped out. I think the NHL has benefited when it comes to the Hub Cities at least by leaving some things undecided and sort of mapping. But it does feel like there's been a shift.

Even in like it feels like when we started this whole plan, there was this idea that we had to make sure there had to be a completely locked down bubble so that there were no infections, period. That was the goal. And now it's, and this isn't just hockey. This is all sports. It feels like the line keeps moving of, you know, okay, a few positives would be okay. Maybe a lot of positives would be okay under these circumstances. Maybe we can get through this.

Maybe we can do it with that. I don't know. And I don't know where we're going to be a month from now when the games actually start, where the expectations will be or how they're going to handle things. and by the way, we should also mention not to go down this path again, but spelled out in the agreement, is that they're not going to tell us anything about who test positive. So you're going to be sitting there,

your team's going to be getting ready for game five of a series that's tied 2-2, and suddenly you're going to see a tweet go across saying that five of your best players aren't at practice, and you're just going to be expected to sit there and go, oh, maybe it's a maintenance day. I don't know. I guess I shouldn't ask, any questions. So it's going to be a really bizarre situation. It has incredible impact on wagering, which is something that the NHL is trying to push for the last

year. And it's kind of stunning that they'll not be forthcoming with that information because of that. But I also think it's going to be a really, I mean, look, it's going to get out. Like, the fucking Elliot's going to, you know, have that information. Maybe he goes literally doesn't. maybe the rules change when we start getting into the bubble the guys are missing games. But there's enough media organizations that have policies about non-naming that they will stick to that. But again, for me, the difference, though, is that if you stick to that,

if you're not naming names or talking about guys that have it or talking about how many guys on a team have it, you have to at least have those numbers in a general sense like we've been getting from the league, or else it is a clear case of them trying to obfuscate the truth in order to create a false sense of security about the bubble. Like, we have to have information on positive tests in some way, shape, or form, don't we? Yeah, and maybe we still will in the way that they've been giving it. You know, that's X number of players.

I don't even know if it'll be at the team level, but, you know, and also what happens if, you know, what happens if some player sits out game seven and everyone's kind of siding each other, like, uh-oh. and then he comes and then he the next day comes out and says guys i i i sprained my ankle it's a bad ankle i didn't test positive and then well okay why aren't all the other players who are telling us what their injury is and now it becomes this whole thing where if certain players are allowed to share the information why isn't this other guy and it just it becomes such a mess and i don't know the answer but it's going to be i feel like there's going to be this very weird situation where fans and media are

all going to be side-eyeing each other, but not supposed to or allowed to say what everyone's thinking when we suddenly see guys disappear off of lineups or out of practice or be away from the team. I think the answer is in 10 years, you're definitely going to be writing a comma about would such and such and such have won the cup if such and such didn't get caught. Oh, 100%. Yeah. A hundred percent.

Unless the Leafs win the cup, in which case it's all completely valid and legitimate and there's no further discussion. One more thing on the return to play, because it's my favorite thing in the document in some ways. The idea that teams are going to be tasked with keeping their players in line to make sure that they don't go to the clurb and then try to get back into the bubble. And one of the things that could happen is that these teams could lose a draft pick if it's discovered that players left go party, got COVID, came back into the bubble without anybody knowing. And, Sean, you might know this, but in the CBA, there are only a few cases in which teams can lose a draft pick by the letter of the law. Violating the 50-player reserve clause limit is one. I found out that you could lose multiple first-round picks if you lie about hockey-related revenue to the league on multiple occasions, which is kind of crazy.

But the thing I wanted to mention here is back in the day before Rule 40, when we used to talk about the concussion crisis insofar as head hunting, blindside hits, guys like, you know, guys running around fucking hitting each other in the head and getting, you know, Jesse Bolriece situations to pull a name out of my ass. One of the solutions was maybe have the teams police these guys. You know, maybe have the teams say, look, you don't, you can't do this shit anymore or else we're going to be. penalized. Find the coach. Find the GM. Dock them a draft pick. And, you know, I find it kind of interesting that I think it's a good judge of the severity of this situation that the NHL has introduced the idea that a team could lose a draft pick if they don't police their own players. But, like, it kind of pisses me off that we don't apply this threat in other situations to help make the game

better, like, for example, supplemental discipline for repeat offenders. I don't know. First of all, the kid. First of all, I find it ironic that a devil's fan is pushing for more. I mean, don't, don't, you just get the first round pick back later, right? I mean, that's, your GM just stares down the commissioners. I, I bit, I bit my tongue during that fucking cap recapture conversation, you guys just got it. But yeah, that's the severity of situations. Anyway, you can probably find the documents. I think they're out there. They're a really fascinating read. And I give the, I give the devils. I give the, uh, the NHL and the PA credit for, creating what at least on the surface seems like a pathway to trying to pull this thing off. But as we said, we'll only know once we get inside the bubble.

All right. Moving on, wanted to give a shout out to our friend Scotty Waz, who tweeted, you know the Florida Panthers front office is doing great when your senior VP of Hockey Operations leaves to start a luxury travel company in the middle of a pandemic. Chris Frunger decided. to do this week. Pronger's got a good interview up with Jeremy Rutherford on the Athletic, talking about his decision to go to create well-inspired travels.com

dealing with VIP amenities, private charters, the whole thing. This is interesting because remember when Pronger kept on wearing that hat of the private plane company during the flyers run to the cup final that year? Yeah, he was on the floor. wires. What do you not get about that? He was trying to pimp out that playing company, but now he's in the travel space, leaving the Panthers, never getting a crack at being a GM in this league, and now moving on to the private sector, as it were, Chris Pronger.

I think the best thing about it was everybody just going, good luck to him. He's a great guy. We all love it. It seemed like everybody got a memo of like, please say that I'm nice in announcing this deal. Very strange. Yeah. The interview on The Athletic is worth reading because it's sort of, it's,

it's, like Rutherford is like very politely trying to poke and prod at what exactly might be going on here. And progress is basically sticking to the story, which is just this is what he wants to do right now. And could, he,

he basically describes that, he had always wanted to be a GM, but maybe feels like he doesn't have the patience for it now that he's seen the job up close, which might be a polite way of saying that the job kind of sucks when you've actually seen someone have to do it. But he does leave the door open to coming back. So that's, and he could absolutely do that at some point, because I have heard people speak pretty highly of them as a hockey mind. Yeah, I think so. And my favorite part of the interview with Jeremy was, The part where he talks around... Talks around...

Oh. Is that when Pronger talks around the concept of players who play for the Panthers not giving a real fuck about hockey and just are interested in going out to dinner and South Beach and stuff? It's kind of the inference that you glean from that portion of the story. But almost to the point where he said that like, if you really wanted to read between the lines, he's saying playing in a hockey market keeps you more honest because the fans are always like on your ass to be better. But if you're in Florida, like, there's so much else you could be doing.

And there's not a lot of fans that are like, be better when you go out to like dinner or whatever. Which is why Chris Ponger wants them moved to Quebec. Yeah. Obviously. That's why you definitely want to be in a hockey mad market like Edmonton. That's where you want to be. That's right. The other interesting part of the interview was when like Rutherford made a reference to like,

obviously the timing of this and he was like you know there's you guys if you might have a shot at Alexis Lefrenier and Proger was like yeah that means we lost like it was like you could see even through the interview him getting mad at the idea that he's supposed to be

excited and it just captures what I'm convinced is the mindset of these guys and I know fans are all you know there's lots of fans who are like I kind of hope my team loses the play in round but like the guys with this Proger mindset are like you idiot do you understand that would mean we would lose. Like, that's not a good thing.

We don't want, we're not here to lose. So that was an interesting insight, I thought. Yeah, it's, uh, yeah. These guys, these guys are all have, like, are like, competitive to a psychologically, problematically degree. So, yeah. Right. And, and also, like, like, you know, let's keep in mind that what he said, though,

it is very tough to win in, uh, in Florida, unless you're the lightning, I guess. Who sell out every game for a decade. Right, it's been in the cup final, and almost set a record for the most number of points in a single season for a team. You know, it's tough to win. Did you either you guys watch supermarket sweep?

Loved it as a kid. I know they... Do they have it in Canada, Sean? I feel like, yeah, we did. It may be like a Canadian version. I definitely have memories of watching people like push a grocery card around a fake grocery store, which I assume is the idea we're going for here,

but it may have been called something different. And it was just a lot more ketchup chips and smarties involved. They bought back at least the first season of the show on Netflix. It's unfortunately, obviously, available only in standard definition because they didn't have HD back then. Highly recommend it not only for the early 1990s fashions, but for the sheer joy of watching this insanely idiotic show

where there's two, three parts to it. First, they have to answer supermarket-centric trivia questions about products, including basically just like fill in the blank answers when they start giving you letters, like it's will of fortune. Yeah, no, like, I seemed to recall that one of the rounds was a lot like on Dan Vega's Mega Money Challenge where he's like, this condiment is red and you would be wise to keep it in your head. That's exactly what it is. Yeah, no, like that's so cool. I love that show as a kid.

It was a show a child could feel like, I'd be good at that. That's a very good point. I never realized that's probably where he got the cadence to the questions from him on I think you should leave because. Like, we were watching one last night because the kid, the kid, you know, likes it. And, well, also my wife, also me. And, like, one of the questions was, to have a breakfast cereal, you don't have to, or to have a breakfast in your bowl, you don't have to be a baker. Make sure you get oats that are made by a Quaker. Yeah.

Quaker oats. Yeah. And then the other one, the other one that I remember was there was always around where they would. like, it was basically like showing you a jumble and being like, okay, the letters on this one are D-R-T-S-M-A-U. And you're like, my daughter, my daughter got one of those jumbles right last night and she goes, Daddy, they just spelled it backwards, both words. I'm like, oh, yeah, they really did, didn't they? It's just like, it's the dumbest shit you can find. But the supermarket sweep part is very exciting.

Except for the fact that after, like, the second episode, people started to really sort of understand what they needed to do, the wind of game, which is get all the giant slabs of meat and cheese wheels. Yes. They could fit into that. Just grab as many turkeys as you possibly can. Right. Because it's all like 20 bucks a piece. Yeah, of course. And now, now they would be, like, running to the pharmacy counter and being, like, grabbing one bottle of pills worth $7 billion.

Right. They all the other, they would go to the medicine, even back then they would go to the medicine aisle because like shit like like stuff for your contact. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Right. So they would go there and then they would get diapers would be their thing. And then it would be like the turkeys and then the hams and the fucking cheese wheels.

But I wanted to bring it up because there was an episode the other night I was fascinated by because there was a team of two women who were like best friends or whatever. and they were on the show. And the host of the show was like, hey, it's good to see you again. You were on a recent episode, but we had a technical problem, and now you're back again.

I'm like, this is a very interesting situation. So I googled it for a bit, and as you might be able to glean, not a whole lot of web writing being done on supermarket sweep back in 1991. So there really wasn't a lot to go on. But I did find their original episode on YouTube. And in the comments, again, not the greatest example of journalistic integrity, comments on a YouTube video, but I'm going to go with this.

In the comments, someone said what had happened was, in theory, that if, and I didn't know this, if you're doing the supermarket sweep and you bump into an opponent or knock shit off the shit. shelf as you're getting your stuff in the cart, there's like monetary penalties that's taken off your total for the amount of groceries you've put in your cart. Sure. So like if you go and knock over like a display of, you know, peas, cans of peas, they can knock like a hundred bucks off your tally, which I didn't know. And so they pinpointed a point in the video where they believe that one of these women, like, bumped into a cameraman or some shit

during their supermarket sweep and that might have been the thing where they got money taken off and then they didn't win the game but I was like fucking fast but here's the point of the story because there is a point they go on and they just

fucking roll through their return appearance like they're killing it because you know where everything is right but also they're getting all the questions right too because they know what the questions are it's season one people didn't even know what the fuck this game was. So they go through, they've got like fucking 15 minutes to go over to sweep. Everybody else has got like two minutes, right? They're just fucking killing the

game. So they get to the final round. And Sean, the final round is you have to run around the supermarket and there's different like trivia questions and the answer to the trivia question will then lead you to the next product you have to get. It's like a scaven down. Right. And then there'll be another question and that'll lead you to the last thing that you got to get and that's where the money is. So my theory on this entire show is like they don't want these women to win because like it's obvious they they lodge some protest it's obvious like well we're gonna fucking sue you if you don't put us on another episode i don't know why ken campbell all of a sudden is on supermarket sweep but so like so like i feel like the whole time you know they had to put these women back on it is not out of the kindness of their hearts that these women are back on supermarket sweep so they go through the first two questions of the of the trivia question part. And then they get to the last question. And I shoot you not. The question is like, basically, the best foreign film winner, director Costa Gravis's blank is also a thing that you'd find in

blank. And so you have to know the name of Costa Gravis's foreign film Oscar winner to realize they are talking about Z paper towels. And, like, they literally have 40 seconds left to try to figure out this clue. And they've got no goddamn idea what it is. Because usually the question is of the same rhyming convention. Like, you know, pick it. Don't be a blounty. Pick up bounty or some shit.

And then they literally throw a grade A last trivia question, a bar trivia style question, just to fuck them, I believe, on supermarket suite. And I got to tell you, as a guy who can be pretty vindictive in life, pretty much the greatest episode of any game show I've ever seen to have that happen. That's very cool. The guys who did the documentary on the Price is Right, cheater? Yes. Well, he didn't cheat. He very explicitly didn't cheat.

And neither did the guy who basically figured out all the patterns on, um... Press your luck. The guy didn't cheat. Did you guys follow the... The Who Wants to be a Millionaire UK scandal? They did the recent show. I've been meaning to watch that and I haven't. It's real good.

And that's another one where you're like, there are certain aspects of it where you totally believe that these people cheated. It was basically, Sean, there, there, there was somebody in the audience coughing at times. And the producers, the producers of the show are convinced that the coughs sync up with the guy changing his answer on the show. and that's how he was able to win. But it doesn't account for, like, the fact that this guy also got a lot of answers right. Like, it's a very interesting scandal, and also the show is real good in leaving it a little ambiguous. But, I mean, a lot of information points that are being cheating there. But I agree with you, like, the Price is Right thing and the Press Your Luck thing were not, I mean, that's no more cheating than what,

what Steve Weeby did knowing the patterns of the Donkey Kong game, right? Correct. Right. But maybe he changed the motherboard. That's the other thing he could have done, right? That's what they say. That's what they say. Although, Guinness just reinstated Billy Mitchell's world records because there's no evidence

that it actually happened or some shit. I don't remember the details. Anyway, point is they're rebooting supermarket sweep. Did you know this? With Leslie Jones, right? host Leslie Jones. Yeah, and I just saw their rebooting the weakest link with Jane Lynch, which, I mean, Jane Lynch is always, it can play the stone cold bitch that you need to be to be the host

of the weakest link. But I also think that there's sort of a winking acknowledgement that she's probably a pretty cool person. So you need someone, you need someone, you need like someone who works for the Trump. administration to be the host. Kelly Ann Conway. Kelly Ann Conway or Kaylee McInerney or whatever her name is.

Because who was the original host? Like it was some British lady. British lady, yeah. Some school bar. Do you know who came in second for that hosting job? Who apparently was the runner up? Richard Hatch, who was at the height of his survivor villainy apparently was the other guy that they

were going to put in there as a guy who could be the jerk and also, you know, this was the whole reality thing. I remember seeing that somewhere at the, the time. Yeah, that's when we were all really hungry to find, like, people like Richard Hatch and Simon Cowell to be mean to people on reality shows. Yeah, I don't know if Richard Hatch would have been naked for the entire episode. That would work. It's the only thing I remember about him at this point. I didn't watch that scene of Survivor. I, the thing I remember at Richard Hatch, and I, and I did this, it's a life lesson. His whole thing was, I know

that I'm a son of a bitch, but he knew two things inherently. That if he kept on catching fish, they'd keep them on the show because they had to eat. Right? So his talent was like going out in the water buck naked and like spearing fish so they could eat. So they kept them around because of that. And his whole thing was in the final, and Sean, you probably remember this. In the final tribal council, his thing was, I know that you all hate me, but you have

to admit that I played the game the best. And that was what turned Susan Hawk was it, I believe, into voting for him. And his, like, infamously, the very, very first episode of Survivor, where they, nobody knew anything that was going on, nobody had any idea what was going to happen. They're interviewing Richard Hatch on the beach on day one, and he looks around and he's like, I'm winning a million dollars. He's like, I know how this game works. None of these people do. They're all trying to, like, make fires and stuff. And I've already figured out who I'm going to align with and just destroy everyone.

And he was like, and they put that on the show. and people were like, well, clearly that guy's not winning. They wouldn't have given the ending away. And then he won. First season of Survivor, for the record, Lambert, is fucking great. Like, it is high art. Let me put it this way. Every time I've ever seen an episode of Survivor, I've gone, oh, this seems pretty cool.

And, like, I'm confident that I saw episodes of season one and was like, oh, I like this. And then never really followed up on it. I have one reality show I watch, and it's freaking Top Chef. And it sounds like Richard Hatch, a real Brian Mularchy scenario. No, he's a real Marcell type guy, really full of himself. Okay, okay. Well, by the way, all the episodes. Did Marcel win?

I don't think Marcel win. Yeah, so. No. Sounds like not really. All the episodes. Although I guess Brian Malarkey didn't either. He didn't. All the episodes of Musum Pod, by the way, available on the Patreon.

If you want to listen to me and Lambert and Ruby break down this season of Top Chef that just passed. All right. Speaking a game show, Sean, I believe you have one for us this week. I have a quiz. I am not going to oversell this and call it a game show by any stretch. This was a low effort quiz that I put together. Oh, well, I mean, you know, ones that you and I create are low effort. Also for you guys.

So this is based on a piece that I wrote last week because we haven't had sports in three months and I've been completely out of ideas for what to write about since April. I wrote a piece where I tried to build the best roster I could out of players. who were not the best player in history to have their own initials. So this was guys like Mark Recky, who had 1,500 career points, but was not as good as Maurice Richard or Glenn Hall, not as good as Gordy Howe. Howe. Howe, you get the concept. So what we're going to do with this quiz is we're just going to take turns.

I'm going to give you guys the name of a solid, dependable NHL player, who may very well be the second best player in history to have those initials. initials, and I want you to tell me the name of the best player in history with those initials. And this is by point totals? You will have, no, it's not by point totals. It's subjective in a sense, but I'll tell you all 10 of the best players are Hall of Famers. So I'm not getting cute with any of this. These are all well-known, famous star players.

You have 10 seconds. This is basically your ability to think of. of these players as quickly as you can. I have no idea how it's going to work. You guys might go 10 for 10 easily, or it might be more challenging, but I encourage the listeners to play along. And I have not used anybody from the article last week, because I know both you guys read my stuff religiously and discuss it.

Yep. Okay. So, yeah, this is... But other than that, yeah, you're good. So, uh... All right. Yeah, that's... Point of order.

Point of order. Point of order. Yep. Nick, how are we handling nicknames? Is New Zealand NL? Let's say whatever their most common playing name was. You know, whatever they were named. Yeah, you go ahead.

I don't think that's going to come up, though. Who wants to go first? I mean, Ryan probably won the last quiz. You can kick or receive. I'll receive. So Ryan's going first? Okay. Ryan, your player, who I think is probably the second best player I could find with these initials,

and you'll have, after I say the name, you'll have 10 seconds. Got it. Player's name is Scott Young. Steve Eiserman. Correct. Yeah. All right. So there you go.

Nice and simple. I'm going to fucking lose this game pretty spectacularly. Well, let's find out. Like I said, you guys could sweep the table, but I'm, uh, I'm going to, you guys, you guys could sweep the table, but I'm hoping the pressure will get to you. If you guys are killing it, I may reduce the time just to put artificial pressure on you. But Greg, you ready for your first player?

No, but go ahead. Your player is Scott Mellonby. Steve Moore. No. And that is time. First of all, I can't believe you didn't get the SM. I mean, come on, like this, the initials of the kit. No, Stan McKita is who we're looking for.

Oh, yeah. There it is. Ryan. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, Greg? You have something to share with us? I have nothing to add.

I've nothing to add. Ryan, your player. Sergei Nemchinov. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Two-sixthead. Scott Niedermeyer. Got it.

Yeah, baby. Jesus fucking Christ. Snite it. I would have gone, I would have gone Stan Netk but that's cool. So you a devil's fan wouldn't have come up with Scott Niedermeyer? No, I probably would go. We might be able to wrap this up right now, I think, if this is.

All right. This, okay, Greg, your next guy is, is this a very well-known name. He's one of my very favorite media guys. Your player is Ray Ferraro. Ray Ferraro? Oh, Faso, yeah. Two seconds.

Renee Fasel Yeah, that's it Is he in as a builder? That's the one. René Fasel is the best player. He was way better than Ray Ferrar. No, Ron Francis is who we were looking for. Oh, yeah.

On that one. All right, Ryan, you are up, and your player is a guy who is, this guy's not in the Hall of Fame, although many people incorrectly think he should be. Your player is Paul Henderson. Ugh. I mean, Mike Arizioni should be in at that point.

I don't know. I'm out. That one, we were looking for Phil Housley. Oh, sure. Oh, God, yeah. I kept thinking, Pierre Horsberg. Is that, that was the name, right? That's the guy.

That was him. All right. So, Greg, you were trailing. You know what part of my problem with this game is? My problem is that, like, you're the one in your ass kicked in it. Well, that, I mean, that's a problem, too. but like I'm like my mind is is is been calibrated to try to think of like obscure like 1950s and 60s players that you may be trying to ask about but like you're asking about guys that literally went in the Hall of Fame yesterday so I'm really fucking thrown by this and I'm trying to recalibrate your brain so that when I come back to the super obscure guys in next week you'll be all messed up all right great this is this is your third you're you're O for two you kind of need this one to to stay in the running.

But, all right, here we go. It's a guy who's near and dear to my heart, former Leaf. Frederick Modin. Frederick Modin. Two seconds. So I could think of as the word Fred, but I don't know who another Fred would be.

It's not a Fred. Clearly. Yeah, I had no idea. All right. We were looking for Frank Mahavich. Oh, fuck you. You know, we just got them talking about how I'm thinking about old players and you're like,

oh, no, it's fucking old. And then now you can be an old player. I mean, I feel like Frank Mojavlich is probably not super obscure player, but maybe, maybe not. Ryan, you ready to wrap this up? I just want to point out the inherent disadvantage I have that it's not even 9 o'clock in the morning, my time yet

to be able to do this game. You can tell Greg's losing because he's bringing up time zones. Typical East Coast bias. Also, also, I drink a lot. And so maybe I don't have the same memory that other people have. Maybe. Should have been drinking right now. It might have helped.

Oh, that's so true. One beer at Bar Trivia, and I am like fucking Ken Jennings. It's great. Ryan, you can wrap this up right here. All right, let's go. So your player is, this is an active player, but I don't think he's on track to take the crown. So your player is James Neal. Hmm Mm-hmm

Two seconds I don't know John Neatermeyer Yeah okay Yeah no you were close You were looking for Joe New and Dyke On that one

Oh sure Wow Yeah All right Greg you're ready to get one more wrong And then we'll be done Yeah I am very much ready My body is ready

This This guy's probably Of his initials has, I think, the most famous wife, but was not the best player. Your player is Brooks-like. Brooks-like? Yeah. Okay.

B.L. Very good. Brian, Brian Leach, Brian Leach, Brian Leach, Brian Leach. He got one. He got one. Oh, my God! Congratulations. Yes.

Yes. All right. You know what? This is still, we're heading in the last round here, and this is still a going concern. I mean, this could, all right, Ryan's got a chance to wrap it up here. It took me five seconds to not think about Brad Lukovic, but I finally got it. All right, you ready, Ryan? Yeah.

Your player is Eric Belanger. Ed Belfour. He's got it. There it is. There it is. All right, there it is. I did appreciate it. I made it interesting, right?

Just for fun, Greg, your player would have been David Perron. Would you have gotten anywhere with that? Probably like someone named Doug. Not actually, surprisingly. But that would have been a good place to start. No, we would have been looking for Denny Potvin on that one. Oh, yeah. Probably wouldn't have mattered.

So basically I won game five of a series. Yeah, a gentleman's... No, no, wait. You won game four. I won game four, and he won in game five, yeah. And you made everybody fly back for, like, another road game. But I won game four, like, like, six to one and chased his goalie. And there was some real concern for a second.

If yelling Brian Leach over and over again, then, yes, I will count that as a blowout. But Ryan still takes the crown on this one. It's almost like someone asked me, who's the best. best defenseman in Leafs history. And I just started screaming Brian Leach, Brian Leach, Brian Leach over and over and over and each over and Leach over and Leach over and Leach over and over and the episode. Weas' favorite. Our topic this week comes from Stan the Man. And the topic is Tom Cruise movies, an honor of the Voltre Q&A with Fannie Newton in which he talks about how Tom Cruise got so stressed out while making Mission Impossible 2 that a giant Zit formed on his nose during the

filming of a particular scene. Overrated Tom Cruise movie, Ryan Lambert. Top Gun. Damn. It's fine. It's right to it, huh? It's barely an action movie. Same with Days of Thunder, as a matter of fact.

But, yeah. Overrated Tom Cruise movie, Sean. I got to say, first of all, putting aside all the weird stuff, Tom Cruise is like one of my all-time favorite actors. and has one of the highest hit, like one of the highest hit rates of any, any actor that I can,

uh, that I can think of. So this is, thinking of like, poorly rate of one. So we're on the overrated. Overrated. You know which one I didn't love that,

that could have been good, could have been a lot of fun, uh, and, and really kind of wasn't is days of thunder. I'd feel like that, that had some potential there, like top gun,

but race cars and, and it didn't really. get there. People do dig it. It's part of the Don Simpson, Jerry Bruckheimer, over here, I believe. Overrated for me, live, die, repeat, as for tomorrow, for one reason, which is that I feel like people saw that movie coming out and were like, this is going to royally suck. And then it wanted it being pretty good. And now it's been pushed as like an all-time or sci-fi movie that deserves a sequel and shit like that. Emily Blent's real good in it against, again, I think playing against type and her performance gets a little bit over-praised because of that, too.

I like the flick. I think it doesn't really end all that well. No, it does not. I think it's been really, really overrated based on just what the expectations were when it came out. It's one of those classic movies where it's like, you have me on the premise. It's a war, and this one guy dies every time he is. Yeah. And that's it.

It's a great high-concept movie, yeah. But I just feel like its execution is being upheld to be at a standard. that I don't think it reached. It's, I thought it was great, but I take your point that, you know, is it a, is it a 10 out of 10 masterpiece? Like, it sometimes gets portrayed, maybe not. It's a B plus. Yeah. Underrated Tom Cruise movie, Ryan.

I mean, I think one that doesn't get discussed very often, but which is really good as collateral. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. Collateral is awesome. That one is that fantastic. First time he's really playing like an out-and-out villain, I feel like. Jamie Fox is fucking great, and it. Yeah, it's awesome.

Who directed that? Is that... It was Michael Mann. It was Michael Man. Yeah, that's a big part of the reason why it's good. Michael Man rules. Yeah. And Fam Bestor being one of the first movies that was sort of digitally shot as well.

Yeah. So, yeah, really, really. really great flick. Underrated Tom Cruise. I'm going to say this is, this movie I don't think is underrated in terms of like by critics, but it's maybe underrated in the sense that some people still haven't seen it. Some people, maybe it doesn't rise right to the top of the Tom Cruise canon. But it's one of my favorite movies of all time.

Minority Report. It's great. Yeah. Excellent. Just fantastic, start to finish. Great performance. it's great concept. Even the ending, which it's one of those movies,

you're three quarters of the way through and you're like, I'm loving this, but I have a bad feeling the ending is going to suck. The ending mostly works, given what they were working with. I just really, and there's just so many shots in, like the scene in the mall with the balloons and that,

like it's just, I really enjoy them. I think you have a point for it being underrated in the sense that I think of the two movies that they made with Spielberg that were both sci-fi that War of the Worlds probably gets a lot more attention

than Minority Report did. It's a good example of like, it came out in like I want to say the early 2000. 0-2 maybe? This was right around the era where we were starting to learn that like original movies and as well as sci-fi that didn't have

like an obvious tie-in to something already seemed to struggle to like breakthrough as, you know, it did well. Lots of people saw it, but it was a huge hit, yeah. It was a big hit, but it probably should have been an even bigger hit if it had something, you know, and War of the Worlds being an example of something where there was, even though the IP is like 80 years old at that point, people still are like,

oh, I know that thing, and it turns into a bigger, maybe a bigger impact. I've got two, and one is going to be my favorite, maybe. so I'll save that one. So I'll go underrated as the firm. It's really good. It's really good. Yeah, John Grisham's book, which I,

one of the few times, because I was young when this came out. Like, this came out like 93, and I remember I didn't read the firm, but the firm was so good that I then read the Pelican brief before that movie came out.

It's real good. It's got an amazing supporting cast, like Wilford Brimley playing a fucking villain. So good. Oh, my God. Gene Hackman. Like, it's all, it's a really solid pop boiler, legal thriller with a bit of sort of, like, for those I don't know, he, he's a young lawyer who ends up working for a law firm that's, that's a front for the mob.

And it's good. It's really, really, really good. Yeah, it's great performance. It's good in it. Really, really good. I will say this, though, there, those, like, mid, early to midnight. 90s John Grisham movies

are almost universally really fucking good I think the chamber is fine but like Pelican Brief the client a time to kill the rainmaker they're all awesome they're all really looking good they don't make a lot of movies like that anymore

like that no no big movie star courtroom like yeah that's I wish they did and and that was part of it like a lawyers as as dashing conflicted heroes genre because you also had what the fuck was that movie like was it presumed innocent was around that time too oh there's a ton of movies that that was a huge thing because and I think maybe because of

you would say L.A. Law really kickstarted that because when was that? When was L.A. law like that was in the 90s? Ladies it too yeah yeah you're and you know 86 to 94 around that time too yeah so that's good stuff yeah favorite mission impossible movie Lambert because I assume that's what it is And the answer is the most reason. One, Mission Impossible Fallout is a perfect fucking action movie.

It's so good. I've seen it probably 10 times by now. But, like, you could say Rogue Nation. You could say Ghost Protocol. You could even say one. And I think the only two lesser entries in the series, which are still perfectly good, is two and three. But, yeah, I cannot get enough of the Mission Impossible series. I think they're...

The pound for pound, the best movie franchise ever. Wow. On a per movie basis, what's better? I mean, Hellraiser, but... Okay, you know what? You're right. Sean, favorite. Another one that's in the running for my very favorite movie of all time

is a few good men. Great movie. Really good? Yeah. And not necessarily his greatest performance. obviously he isn't the best performance in the in the movie but uh that's part of it right like he goes into this movie jack nicholson's you know got this like scene chewing where and tom cruz could have gone in and said i'm going to out jack nicholson jack nicholson and the whole thing wouldn't

have worked and he doesn't and it plays out perfectly and you know the courtrooms and not just corner scenes the whole movie is is fantastic it's i'm not one of those guys who has a long list of movies that if i see it on tv i'm going to just burn the afternoon watching it but that is one of them for me. I love that movie. I agree. And I also think that to your point, it is sort of an underrated aspect that he makes you believe that he has

to get to that point as a character where he can take on Nicholson in that scene. And he certainly isn't there for a lot of that movie, but he gets there. And I think that's a lot in the performance. He is an unbelievably good actor. He doesn't get enough credit.

No Oscar wins. I think only three nominations. right? He was nominated for, well, he's nominated for Jeremy McGuire. Born on the 4th of July. Born on the 4th of July and maybe. And he got supporting for Magnolia. Magnolia, that's right.

Yeah, he didn't get it for Rain Man. But like that was, that was clearly his first. Yeah. The thing with Tom Cruise for me is, like, probably even from like the 80s with like top gun and that. But like certainly once the 90s comes along and he does Jerry McGuire and he does. Like, this guy could have coasted so easily and just made tens of millions of dollars making every action movie, every, you know, whatever. And he's done so much, like, weird stuff. Like, clearly is the guy who, like, makes movies he wants to make instead of just doing the easy paycheck thing that, frankly, a lot of actors would probably do in that same scenario.

But it's also the Harrison Ford problem where he makes everything he does look so. effortless that, you know, doing what he does in an action movie isn't considered to be acting when it should be. Because, like, he makes it believable, and he's really fucking good at that. Well, I mean, it's definitely the thing of, you know, when he wanted to do the helicopter stunt for Mission Imposibly, he was like, well, I'm going to be flying the helicopter fucking obviously. And they were like, like, this is only for pilots that are rated, you know,

whatever the rank is. And he was like, okay, what do I need to do to be that pilot then? And they were like, well, you would have to do X, Y, and Z. And he's like, okay, that's fine. And like, the famous story is that he would like arrive to set every day flying that helicopter because that way he would get the hours in then he needed to get in. And it's like, that's the only way I'm going to make this movie is if I get to fly on the outside of an airplane. And it's like that, like, you know, you can say he has a death. wish, and I think that might be, there's like a pretty credible thing to that. He also knows how many, how many Thetons he has. So when he gets reunited with Xenon, that he's going to be in good shape. I just, this is a podcast I've only recently started listening to, but Blank Check is really, it's a great podcast, but they just did an episode on, on the first Mission Impossible movie. And Tom Cruise is older now than, you know, John Voight, who's portrayed as old and washed up in the first Mission Impossible movie. Tom Cruise is older now than John Voight was when they made that movie.

That's incredible. And it's like, yeah, Tom Cruise is going to do this forever. He's going to die on the set of a Mission Impossible movie. And like, we just have to accept that. And like that, like, maybe you say that's not necessarily acting, but like it's not not acting. But also we have to accept that that. That's when he gets his Oscar per Heath Ledger rules. He could have gotten one for any of the last three Mission Impossible movies, and I would have been fine with it.

He's an incredible actor doing incredible work. And this is the classic actor as auteur kind of a series. Sure, sure. My favorite, so my favorite three Mission Impossible movies are Fallout, Ghost Protocol, and the first one. I think Ghost Protocol is my favorite one, and I think the best one, because I think it marries the, the intricate plotting and cool shit from what I think is a very bond movie in fallout

with the complete over-the-top stuff from the first one. But I got to tell you, man, like, the first one of my most rewatchable movies. That's a movie where I will fucking get hooked in. It's insanely good. It's so entertaining. Does it make any sense at all? No. It definitely doesn't.

But I still think that despite all of the shit that's come after it, like there is, no better set piece than the infiltration of the computer terminal in Langley when he's dangling from the ceiling. I think that's maybe the best action set piece in the history of movies as far as like building of tension and Brian De Palma does an incredible job shooting it and all the pieces that are working where the what's her face is squirting the shit juice and the guy's coffee. And he has to catch the piece of the drop of sweat. They do so much work to establish the rules of this insane room. that couldn't exist. And they never break them. They break him once.

They break him once because I think when he's being dragged up, it would have made enough noise to set off the alarm. Oh, maybe, yeah. But it's perfect. Yeah. And, you know, the other thing to say, obviously, is like, I don't know, like the halo jump scene in seven. Climbing the Birch-Kaleva, I think, is probably the number one action set piece. Because, again, this dude was like, oh, I'm just going to do that. And they were like, well, you can't do that.

And he's like, sure, I can. And then he did it. You did it. All right. Least favorite. You can go, Ryan. I mean, he hasn't done a lot of duds, you know? I guess you would say one of the earlier ones, like legend, maybe.

Like, there are some, but like, I don't know, the only one I can think of that, like, is even in the 21st century that isn't particularly. good is lions for lambs, and he's only in that for like, he's not in that very much. I don't seem to recall. Maybe he is. I saw it once and hated it. But yeah, let's go with legend. Why not? I'm like Ryan, I struggle with this just because there aren't a lot of bad movies here, but I'm going to use the phrasing of the question, which I think we're doing Tom Cruise movies, not Tom Cruise rolls. So I'm going to say my least favorite

is the movie Rock of Ages. Yeah, sure. It's the rock musical. And so I'll say two things on that. First of all, one of the most fun nights I've ever had was in Vegas watching that live show, just getting completely hammered

and just watching it play out live. It's, I don't know if it's still running, it probably is, but if you're, once people can go back to Vegas, check that out. I highly recommend it. So I was, I was eager to see the movie, and the movie just doesn't work. Maybe it just, maybe it couldn't possibly work.

It's a dud, yeah. But Tom Cruise, basically playing Axel Rose in a musical, phenomenal. Phenomenal. And not only that, but just the fact, like, the whole time you're just like, why is he even doing this movie? Why would he agree to do this? But again, he just goes all in, and by the end of it, you're like, I just, I was watching the movie, like, I want Stacey Jacks on the screen, and I'll watch that, and everything else I want to skip past, because none of the rest of it is working.

But this guy just goes all. Like, he doesn't, there's this thing that happens in bad movies all the time where you can pinpoint the moment where the big star realizes it's a bad movie and is like, I'm mailing it in. I'm done. I'm just going to cash my paycheck and get out of here. No one's going to see this and we'll never speak of it again. He never does. No. Tom Cruise does not have that gear.

Yeah. No. He just goes all And it's It's it's it's just If somebody made like a cut of just like all the Stacey Jack scenes and nothing else And it would be like a 20 minute movie because it's not a huge role That would be worth watching

You guys are both right But I have to say my choice is the mummy That came out in the last couple years It's a fucking terrible movie It's not good And and was one of those things where like One of the worst things about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is the way that it tried to create. It made all these other studios try to create the little universes.

Yeah, it was going to be like this monster universe, right? It was going to be the dark universe. It was going to have Johnny Depp playing, I think, The Invisible Man. Russell Crow is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Benicio Del Toro. And then Javier Bardem was going to play the Wolfman. Oh, right. Yeah, Benicio del Toro played the.

Wolfman in like, 2006, maybe? It's a terrible movie and just doesn't do anything to establish a large, it's fucking bad. And the best thing that came out of the movie was that clip of, of, of, of the, of the, of the, of the, um, of the, um, of the, um, and, and, and, like, flying around in a, being thrown around a plane and they just had the raw audio of it, of people going, oh, yeah. with no other effects. It was tremendous if you can find it.

All right, that's a show. Thanks for listening. Usual marathon effort. And, yeah, thanks. You read my stuff on ESPN. You can listen to ESPN and ICE. Me and Emily this week talked with Bill, Billy Guerin of the Minnesota Wild about a great many things. And also Rick Westhead about all the shit that he covers, which is, well,

Uniformly scary, Lambert? Yeah, sign up for the Puck's Soup Patreon. I got the newsletter. We're not doing Mee's On Pod anymore, but as Greg said, all the episodes are on there, and we're probably going to do like a classic season at some point as well. Kind of going to get busy in the next little while here, I feel like. But, yeah, we'll come back to that, and then me and Sean Gentilly do stick to sports once a month, and it's everybody's favorite podcast about breakfast.

serial and Blink 182. So that's it. Nice. Find me on The Athletic. I wrote a piece this week if you're a Leafs fan on the oral history of the Passion Returns, which is the greatest VHS tape in hockey history. And if you're a Leafs fan of a certain age, you probably got a copy for Christmas in 1993 and watched it 100 times.

And you can find the behind-the-scenes stories on how this thing got made as well as the completely bizarre and impossible Glenn Anderson-led music video that went along with it and what the hell people were thinking participating in that. All right. Thanks everybody for listening. Much appreciated and support the Patreon and we'll talk to you soon. Bye. See it. Bye-bye.

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