Puck Soup - Save by Roy?

Episode Date: May 26, 2026

Sean and Ryan discuss both playoff series, two Puck Soup curses, and more. Get bonus episodes and more at patreon.com/pucksoup  

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I am Sean McAnew from The Athletic. And I think it's fair to say, we got a freaking series on our hands. We got one. We really only have the one. One for two, baby. Hey, I'll take a coin flip, right? I guess how do you want to tackle this Carolina-Montreal series?

Because there's a lot to talk about, but like, I don't know. I'll put it this way. I'm not seeing a lot of Montreal is going to win this series in this series. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay, so here's where I'm going to start. First of all, I'm at the point now after watching games two and three where I'm ready to kind of just disregard game one. 100%.

Not even a question to me. you know, Montreal won the game and you, sure, you get a win, you need four, that's one of them, etc. But as far as using it to look ahead and project, I think that was what we all thought might happen, which is the team that hadn't played in six years was rusty. They forgot how to play hockey. They were holding the wrong end of their sticks and all that stuff. And then they've remembered for game two. Yeah.

So the last two games have been kind of the same game twice, right? Yeah. Absolutely. And the thing that people are correctly pointing out is how dominant Carolina has been on the shot clock. I don't know, man. Do you feel like when you're watching the games, do you feel like you're watching, tilted ice. Do you feel like Montreal's getting speedbagged

and just hanging in because of hot goaltending and that? Because I don't really get that impression when I'm watching this. I think Carolina's been better for stretches. But this isn't, you know, they say sometimes there's the old cliche about well, the score didn't really tell you

about the game. Like I feel like the shot clock isn't necessarily telling us an accurate picture. This is why I'm always saying you freaking nerds got to watch the games. It's not just, I'll put it this way. What did they have 13 shots last night?

And that was after they went back and added one in the overtime, I believe. They had one shot in overtime. So all you people who bet the over under 0.5, you're in luck. The league's got your back. But so it's 13 shots in game three. I think it was 12 in game two. And as much as I think you're you're right that it's not as best. as the numbers indicate, you're not going to win a lot of hockey games with 12 and a half

shots a night. You're just not going to. And it's funny because I think that a lot, and look, it's not just shots, scoring chances, expected goals, high danger, whatever metric you want to look at, the hurricanes are up above 60% in the last two games. And that's all you can really ask a team to do. And in fact, what's funny is they've also scored 60% of the goals in the last two games, even though both those games go to overtime.

It's basically a coin flip when it goes to overtime, all that kind of stuff, absolutely. But the hurricanes are back into the, ooh, sorry, we can't finish thing. And in the first two rounds, obviously, like the Stankoven line was just doing so much of the heavy lifting on that. And I don't think any of those guys

have a point in the series. Or maybe they have one each or something like that. But they're obviously not like the central factor driving the hurricane success like they were, you know, two months ago when the playoffs started. So I think that's ultimately kind of what the difference is here. It's like Montreal is, I'll say this. They're doing a, Montreal is doing a good job. of getting a piece of shots,

getting a piece of passes. Like basically look at an odd man rush that Carolina generates and they're generating a good number of them and watch how good of a job Montreal is doing disrupting them. It could be a lot uglier, but Montreal is kind of playing as good of defense as they can while giving up like 65.

percent of the attempts or whatever the numbers are. I don't know that that's going to translate to more than two goals a game for the rest of this series, though. That's all. Yeah, it's tough. And especially it's tough in the Montreal zone. They're getting hammered on the forecheck. Like really to an extent that we don't typically see. especially for a defense that's a pretty skilled group.

Lane Hudson obviously being the key there, but they've got guys who, in theory, can get the puck out of their own zone and do it by not just going off the class of note. And Caroline is a very good forechecking team, and now they're a very well-rested forechecking team, which is not a great combination. for Montreal.

Now that haven't been said. You're one bounce away from up to one in the series, your two bounces away from three nothing, and we're all dump it all over Carolina again. So the margins are thin, but they're not putting themselves in the position to get those bounces, though, right? Like, again, 12 shots on goal. How many more bounces do you want than scoring four goals on 24 shots,

25? you know? Yep. Like we can all talk about playoff ready all we want. I think one goal on every six shots is about as good as you're going to do on playoff ready. And it's just like I said, it's just not good enough. And it to me is a little bit like the Ottawa series where Brady Kachuk's like, we're confident we can play with them because we play a system that's very similar. I think you could say Montreal's is very similar to Carolinas as well.

And I got news for you, man. These guys have been doing it for eight years with this coach. They've like tailored the roster to how Rod Brindamore hockey needs to be played over eight years. And it's not like they're going to fuck up playing like that, you know? Like what's hurt them the last few years? And again, they've been to the conference final four times in eight seasons under Brindamor. is Freddie Anderson or, you know, the goalie du jour, whoever it happened to be at any given time, or the lack of firepower at the tippy top of their offense.

They just didn't have like star players like the other teams did. Now we're getting closer to them having the talent. I mean, Nick Elers has helped. Oh, absolutely. And Stankovin has helped. And, you know, Taylor Hall has helped. Like, but they're just not. But those guys, yeah, I mean, the Stankhoven line isn't, like, that's not your elite top of the line.

Yeah, I guess I'm talking about Taylor Hall and Stankovin in terms of they were highly drafted guys. They're obviously not being asked to be out there on P.P.1 and put up a million points in any of that kind of stuff. But, yeah, you're right. I think the argument you could make is they've got three guys that you think of as elite talent. and that's that's that's eelers svetnikov and and sebastian aho and only one of them had been looking like that for for honestly most of the playoffs yeah we've been waiting for svetchnikov to do something and he did last night finally he gets the goal hell of a shot yeah yeah um he hit the goalie but that's fine too you know Sebastian aho's just not doing anything in this postseason really. Yeah.

And for the millionth time, that's a double-edged sword because it's bad when your best players aren't playing their best, but also it tells you there's another level there. Maybe Svetnikov getting the goal last night wakes up that whole first line and gets them going. And then Montreal's in big trouble because their top guys aren't producing yet in this series. That might be the series.

Is this who's top guys? Like we talked a lot about how this felt like kind of a battle of the second lines and all of that. But whose top line starts looking like a top line first? And maybe it took until overtime at game three for Carolina to kind of get out of the starting gate on that. But Montreal better catch up to that because Philip Dino is a good player, but him leading your team in scoring is not going to get you out of this series. That's exactly right.

I think it's fair to say that in terms of guys you would say these are like top end guys, Montreal is even or maybe even a little ahead of Carolina, right? Like, you can go, you can just go down the list and like they have a, Carolina doesn't have a col. Coffield, right? Carolina doesn't have Elaine Hudson. They have, maybe you would say

like store brand versions of those guys, but like those guys are special players in Carolina, I would say the special players are fewer and farther between. But this is the benefit, again, of playing eight years of Rod Brindamore hockey. I think there are

like five or six guys who were there when Brindamore got the job. if I remember what I looked up yesterday correctly, which is a lot. That's that's, that's, yeah, for sure. And, you know, some of those guys are like Jordan Stahl, Jordan Martinuk, these kind of things where it's like, okay, those are bottom of the roster guys. But the point is everybody knows what they're supposed to do at this point. There's no, um, there's not many guys who are like growing into their games still like Montreal has.

people keep saying oh Montreal is one of the youngest teams in the playoffs I think they were the youngest team in the league this year so yeah that having been said those are just guys that they haven't been to four conference finals with one coach

so if you want to say that's the difference and like that's why Carolina is able to grind it out and neutralize your caw fields and Hudson's the most part. I'm not going to sit here and disagree with that. But again, it's two bounces. And we're having a very different conversation.

Is it too easy to just say game four must win for Montreal? Oh, I'd say it has to be. Yeah, of course. Kind of feels that way. I mean, it's tough. Because, look, every year in the playoffs, there's one team that kind of has the magic, and that's been Montreal this year. So you don't want to count them out, even if they go down 3-1. But Carolina is just such a professional hockey team that it's tough to imagine short of a, you know, goal-tending heater or something like that.

It's a tough position to be in. And Dolbush has been great in this series. Oh, he's been fantastic. Yeah. He's been Montreal's best player by a. pretty decent margin. Which to your point earlier is like a gift and a curse, right? Like it's putting you in a position to win games,

but no one's taking that extra initiative or whatever you want to say to get you over the home. Yeah, and especially... Apart from game one, which we're all agreeing, doesn't really count. Yeah. Let's talk about last night just specifically beyond the, you know, know, the obvious and the OT winner. Did you have any strong thoughts on the two big missed calls in overtime? That's hockey, baby.

I don't know. Lane Hudson gets tripped. Yep, he sure did. On a play that looks a lot like if you were going to show somebody what tripping in the NHL look like, and they don't call that. And then the haves get caught with too many men on the ice, and the refs just are like, you know what? That actually didn't count.

There were only five guys. I left my counting fingers at home today. Yeah. I mean, they blew it dead. That's the crazy thing. That's the crazy thing for sure, is they were like, okay. There were six guys up there, right?

We all agree. Yes, okay, great. You can blow a play dead for illegal substitution and not call too many men, but that's not what that was. And it's, in a way, it's frustrating, but it's also like you just kind of like, you just kind of, Like you said, that's hockey. We all know what's going on, right? Like, Lane Hudson gets tripped. That's an obvious trip.

But tripping is in that category of penalties that they just don't call in overtime. I'll tell you, you know what I think happened there? Is he did like the full Superman on his way to the ice? Mm-hmm. And refs hate that. When your feet go up and like go above the rest of your body, the reps are like, we're never calling that in a million years. The hands out sort of deal.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, you said it. They couldn't have drawn up a more, this is tripping, tripping penalty. But keep your feet lower to the ice and maybe you get the call. But also, if that's stupid. If that's stupid, we all know it gets called. Yeah, of course.

And like I said, it's stupid that that was what happened. But I totally, again, I've seen enough hockey to know why that didn't get caught. Yeah. And then the too many men is in that other category that we still do expect them to call. But they don't call it partly because they didn't call the Hudson trip, right? So there's nothing to discuss at the end of the day in terms of. In terms of the refs influencing the game one way or the other, it all cancels out the way the refs won, right?

Yep. I mean, it's, we always talk about how the refs, they don't want to decide the game. And then they don't call something. Like the, you know, the Hudson trip ended up being like not super, you know, didn't have a big impact on the play itself. But it almost did. Like when you look where the puck went, that could have been a turnover that, you know, imagine Carolina takes that puck and scores.

right away, oh, we're having a 48-hour referendum on NHL officiating. And if they call on obvious too many men on the ice and Carolina scores on the power play, we're probably having the same freak. At least they are in Montreal over what's a penalty and what isn't and why are there certain penalties that get called and certain penalties we've all just agreed don't exist anymore. but instead, it literally did balance out. Game management works. It certainly does, yeah.

And then thoughts on the offside, Montreal loses a goal 10 minutes in the third period that in theory could have been the winner. Well, my opinion is the guy shouldn't have been offside if he didn't want to get called for it, you know? Like, I agree with it. My buddy Ryan, everyone, he's very law and order. If you didn't want your car impounded, you shouldn't have gone one mile over the speed limit.

Here's what it is. I agree that it's dumb to be like, well, it happened 30 seconds ago, and, you know, they could have cleared it 14 times in those 30 seconds. And they didn't do it. And so, like, at what point? But at the end of the day, the guy was over the line before the puck was. And it's not. even necessarily about like they got to get it right or whatever you want to say. It's just like that's what the fucking rule is.

I like we can agree or disagree. It wasn't like a crazy egregious like Matt Douchain style. He was offside. He was like, like I'm seeing people who are like, wow, yeah, but he was obviously offset. Yeah, by like half an inch for one frame of the video. It's not this, I guess this is my thing with it. when you're going back and looking at an offside 30 seconds before a goal and it takes 15 minutes to see if he's, if there's one pixel, they went in. They were like, okay, he's offside.

They came right back out. Like, they did not talk it over much. It was, so to me, it's pretty cut and dry. Sorry, you shouldn't have been offside. It's, at the end of the day, it is extraordinarily stupid that we have this system. and that goals like this come off the board. But we do have the system. So Carolina did the right thing.

It's how the rules work. You can't. Like, there's, whenever we do rules arguments, there's always like two different ways to do it. There's, okay, here's what the rule should be. And this would, that's what, this is what it would look like if, if the rules were the way I want them, be. And then there's, here's what the rules are and how they should have called it. And sometimes we have like, I find, and I'm saying we like hockey fans just as we're, as we're doing this

stuff. We have like both conversations at the same time and it doesn't really work. The rule is stupid. Also, the rule as written was perfectly applied and you got the right result from the stupid rule. So short of rewriting the rulebook halfway through the conference final, it's, you know. They don't do that as often as they used to, you know? Not as often. They should. I mean, personally, I would do it during games, and it would be during my team's games, and I would rewrite the rulebook, and then I would just say, just be consistent.

Which is a crazy coincidence that it's your team. Yeah, it's not because I'm, it's not because I'm a homer. Like, why do people keep saying this? It's just that I think every situation should work out in my team's favor, objectively. It's just that simple. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I get, you know, I guess I get why Habs fans are mad in terms of, is the way the rule, like you said, is the way the rule is applied stupid? Like, it's completely stupid.

They scored a 100% valid goal. Sure. And I think it's insane because... By having a guy go offside first. By having a guy be a fraction of an inch off, which we allow in a hundred other different ways throughout the course of a hockey game. And only because of this one... It's like we put all the cameras pointing at this one spot on the ice. So that now becomes the only spot on the ice where we give a crap about a fraction of an inch.

But it is. So, you know, you do what you do. You do what you do. I think it's completely insane that there are people out there who like like the rule. Like, I mean, they're actively like it. Not just like, oh, whatever. I mean, it's, you got to do, you know, this is how we do it. So whatever.

People who are actually like, no, this is good. This is good that we do this. But we do. So it's, it is what it is. and until they screw up a Stanley Cup final in a very memorable way, they're not going to change it. Was there anything else in the game

that really stood out as I'm trying to think of... I don't think so. Great big play. I mean, it was a good game. It was entertaining. Yeah, fun. Great crowd, all that. But, I mean, kind of the right result

as far as which was the better team. Yeah, again, you just can't feel like you deserve to win a game where you had 13 shots on net in 75 minutes or whatever it was. Yeah. Like, I think the only thing the HABs can say to themselves is, we were close. Yeah, I mean, we're, we're, but it is tough, right? Because usually a lot of times, if it, when a team gets out played, but then they lose a real close game. They like lose in overtime.

You end up doing that thing where you look back and you. go, wow, geez. Hey, one extra, remember when that guy had the, you know, he had that great chance and he hit the post or he had the great chance. And it's like, Montreal didn't really have that. No, they didn't. Their best chance was the Suzuki, like, kind of partial break at the very beginning of overtime.

And then after that, they were like, we're done. Or Carolina was like, you're done. That's right. Hey, I'm starting to think Jacobs-Lavin may still be good. It's interesting. That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that maybe we should dig into a little bit more. Yeah, for sure.

It's, I don't know, man, like, I, I picked Carolina to win. I was a little concerned about the, they haven't played in six months thing. And they gave me, like, they were like, yeah, you were right to be concerned about that for 60 minutes. And then,

once they kind of got their legs back under him, they said, okay, we're the better team here. And I think everybody kind of agrees. Obviously, Carolina is a better team, than Montreal, one through 20. There are differentiating factors like guys who can break, like I said, guys who can break the game open in a way that Carolina doesn't have. But all things being equal, I think most fans, you know, this is one of those things.

There's no way to look it up. But it's like, what would most fans have said? 80% of fans would have probably said going into this series, it's probably Carolina's to win in some number of games, whether it's four or seven or. whatever. And so I just think we're getting what everybody kind of thought they were signing up for. That's it. Yeah.

I mean, it's, I think you're right. Like, it feels like a bit of a boring analysis to be like, yeah, no, this series is so far playing out pretty much the way we thought. It is. But it is. So, so let's look at it this way. So game, game four is tomorrow. Can't wait. Friday.

Sunday, Tuesday. Game 7 would be on Tuesday. What are the odds that the next time you and I talk for the main show that we're previewing a game 7? Maybe like 20%, 25? Okay. What do you think? It feels higher than that to me. I mean, it does feel like, like I don't have exactly that sense that you get sometimes.

Like, with Montreal and Buffalo where it felt like after one period, you're like, yeah, this game, this is, series is going seven games. Bye, bye. Yeah. It doesn't feel that way with this necessarily, but I don't know, man. Montreal's kind of got that game seven vibe. I'll say higher. I'll say, I'll say, I'll say 40%.

Just not quite 50-50, but. I just think they need to show me something more. Like I went a higher number than you, so if there is a game seven, I'm right. But I also went under 50. So if there isn't, we're both right. I just think Montreal hasn't shown it to me. You know, like they, look, like I said, I'm not saying this is a fluke. I think if you wanted to say this is the second best team in the playoffs, like in the East overall,

like going into the playoffs, I mean, I'd have gone like, yeah, that actually makes some amount of sense to me, especially if we're saying, you know, Tampa doesn't have. I would have said Tampa, of course, but at worst, I would have had them third. You know? And because of this this playoff format, they played the second, what I thought was the second best team. And they beat them in seven games. So, you know, hats off to them. But I just, like I said, I just think they ran up a team that's a fair, a fair distance better.

Sure. That's hockey, you know. Why don't we take a break? We'll come back and we'll talk about the Western Conference final. All right. We're back and we're going to talk about the series that. It's not really a series, unfortunately. I was really looking forward to this series.

I was thinking this was going to be a fun one. A lot of back and forth. Nope, not a chance. Colorado, I think, let's put it this way. Colorado is down 3-0 in this series because they just are decimated by injury, I think. I don't know. Obviously.

It's the biggest factor. You don't want to take away from Vegas playing very well, but. Can I say this, though? Vegas loves to be behind in this series. Isn't that crazy that there, like, has it been every game they've given up the lead early? Is it every game? I think so.

Yeah. Certainly game three. That was something else. Yeah. Because I was doing something and I came down, I flipped the TV on, and it was 3-0 Colorado, and I was like, there we go.

Welcome to the... Finally a series. This is going to be fun. Clear my calendar for the weekend and everything, because I got game six and game seven and all. And, uh-oh. As soon as Vegas scored like eight seconds into the second period, it was like, oh boy.

Yeah, absolutely. That was when you knew for sure. Yes. So, I mean, I kind of... We talked in the first half about how, like, oh, you know, Carolina Montreal, it kind of, it's kind of boring to say like, yeah, the series is playing out about as expected. I think it's even more boring to say that when you have two of the best five or ten hockey players in the world on your team and they're both absolutely useless due to injury, your team's going to be worse.

But that really, I mean, it's not the only story here, but like, Kail McCar clearly is in bad shape. And not just the fact that we saw him look and hurt at the end of the Minnesota series. Of course. We, for the most part, I think, assumed that after six days off, he'd be back. But the fact that he wasn't, the fact that after six days off, he didn't even play. He missed two games, yeah. Tells you that, like, 48 hours off isn't going to do it. This is what you've got for the rest of the playoffs.

And he looks like his shoulder is being held in place by duct tape. And not even like the good duct tape. Like the dusty duct tape that you've already used once and now you're trying to use it again, even though you know that's not really how it works. And then McKinnon with the shot, and we should say as we're recording this, we don't know who's playing tonight or what the deal is. But I mean, Bednar basically came out and said McKinnon's playing, even if he can only do power play.

Yes, that was basically the quote. But, and that might be all he can do. Because it was like, it was crazy watching him, you know, and full credit to him, gutting it out trying to play. But it was like, you're watching this guy take these big powerful strides and not go anywhere on the ice. Yeah, and the guy that you think of as the big powerful strides guy. Yeah, he's like the big train guy.

And instead he's just like can't get. moving at all. Crazy. I don't know, man. Is there, we always have to do the, you know, fourth game's the hardest to win and all that. But is there any path here for Colorado that you can find? Yeah, sure. I mean, again, they were up three nothing the other night.

With the exact situation we're describing, like Cal McCar playing at, let's say, 40%. McKinnon, pretty banged up. Well, McKinnon hadn't been hurt yet. though. Yeah, well, right. But he was, you're right. Like, he is, even before that. But Nchuskin missed most of game three.

A couple other guys. I think Malinski's another guy. I've noted him like, oh, that guy, they've really limited his ice time. He's probably hurt. You know, the Wedgwood hasn't been, like, horrible, but, you know, you probably would like him to make a save or two when you're up three nothing, you know? and it all adds up to that's why they're in this position. But they can, you know, I can trust even a pretty banged up team to hold a 3-0 lead if they can build it most of the time. I don't know now if they can build it, but that's, you know, again, if we want to do percentages,

I think like you would say Vegas feels like maybe they're like 70-30 to win tonight with the sweep. But who knows? You know, Colorado's, they're a good and deep team. They need, like, Natchez and Nelson to start fucking producing, of course. Yeah. Man, there's a lot of, Brock Nelson especially, I'm sensing a lot of frustration from Colorado fans. Because this is really two years in a row now. And it's so bizarre.

That's interesting, because you weren't allowed to say anything bad about him in the regular Not even bad. Anything even approaching like maybe he's not like great and they should get another set. You're not allowed to say that. I mean, he had 30 goals. He goes to the Olympics and all that. But it's, and it's crazy because we always talk about some guys are playoff guys and some guys aren't. And you would like of the cliched version of that that we all rely on.

Like, Brock Nelson checks every box. This is the guy you want in the playoffs. And yet, he's two years in a row now. He's kind of been a bum in the postseason. Yeah. Once as the second line center and now as the third line guy, who might be back to being a second line guy if McKinn can't go. Mm-hmm.

Are we... Go ahead. Go ahead. What I was going to say is, like, compare that to Vennon. Vegas where basically everyone except Jack Eichols producing and Eichael's doing a lot of other stuff you would want a top guy to do. He's just not scoring a ton of goals or whatever. But everything else, you're like, oh, Eichl's been fine.

And if everybody else is putting the puck in the net, then you don't need Eichael to be the guy. Yep. Colorado, because of the way things have gone, has needed McKinnon to be the guy and he hasn't been. And now he's hurt. You know? So that's ultimately the other difference in the series, I guess, is Carter Hart's been awesome. Right? Like, if you want to say, like, yeah, he gave up three goals the other night, but had he, what was it, three goals in the other two games combined?

Something like that. And by the way, I went back and checked. Colorado led most of game two, won nothing. And that never felt like a lead that could maybe hold. But they did spend, Vegas did spend most of game two trailing. So, yeah, I don't know. Like, to me, it's like, yeah, you, what would you say? Like, Colorado and in Vegas, like, Colorado maybe has the edge up front.

With McCar in, you would say they have the edge on defense with them out. You wouldn't say that. And then in gold, maybe you would say it's like it could go either way. But Hart's risen to the occasion and Wedwood hasn't. Yep. Do you think we see Blackwood tonight? I'm really interested. And I wanted to talk about this too.

Have you seen like I have like the locals? They're kind of like someone's going to be in trouble for this. Have you seen this? Yes. So that is what I wanted to jump in and talk about. Because this series is going to be over by the next week's episode. So even if it goes seven. So we can't really help but get ahead of ourselves.

I have been seeing a lot of, is Jared Bednar in trouble if this ends tonight with a sweep? That, as someone on the outside who, look, I'm not day-to-day on the heartbeat of the Colorado Avalanche. That sounds insane to me. let me put it this way what the fuck is he supposed to do two of the what eight best players in the world can't play yeah or you know

barely can play I mean they wouldn't be playing in the regular season put it that way like both of these guys well we don't know McKinnon I mean but Kale McCar certainly looks like a guy who if this was the regular season he would miss two or three weeks at least

mm-hmm like what and it's just crazy to me. Like, imagine when this series started, if I was like, Ryan, not only do I think Vegas is going to win the series, I think Jared Benner is going to get fired. You'd be like,

for what? Does he pull the goalie, like, in the first period? Does he, you know, does he get caught handing game footage over to the Vegas side? Like, what are we doing here? I'll tell you,

is the fan of a team that needs a coach? I hope I'm wrong. But this is nuts to me. I'm obviously with you. The whole criticism is kind of like, there's no way a team this good should get. Okay, so how did they get this good? Who was the coach during the regular season?

Get that guy. Oh, it's the same dude. Okay. Like, this is just absolutely wild to me that, like, and I'm normally, the sort of guy where I'm like, yeah, I want teams to make moves. I want teams to get mad when they lose. I want teams to not just, not just think, oh, I'm going to get to the playoffs and then

who knows. But like between Pete DeBore last year, which to me was strange, but I saw the case at least, given how things have gone with the goaltending and everything. But this year, like, this doesn't make any sense at all to me. So the headline I saw last night that I just flat out could fucking believe. A local columnist guy at the Denver Gazette, Mark Kisla, Kishla, something like that. Quote, this is the headline. Why this avalanche mess in NHL playoffs is of Joe Sackix making.

Huh? Hmm. What? I mean, like there's, okay. I haven't read that column. Be interested to see... Basically, the point is... This is really funny.

Wedgwood isn't good enough to be like a real cup-winning style goalie, which, you know, look at who the goalie was when the abs won the cup and how he did before and after he got to Colorado. So there's that. But also, I'll just read this paragraph. that rocked to me. Sackig boldly replaced his celebrity coach on the bench, he means Patrick Waugh, who he talked about earlier in the column,

with an unproven commodity and then unknown Jared Bednar. For the ensuing 10 years, the abs have also boldly tried to fill the hardest job in sports with stopgap measures in net. All right. All right. By the way,

I just Google the article. You're still talking about Patrick Waugh? Like, what are you talking? I googled the article and tried to click on it and I got a big thing saying I was blocked. So good job by the webmaster there. They really... Now, am I getting an ad for boots every two paragraphs when I scroll on this page? I bet I am.

And I'm going to tell you, these aren't like good looking boots at all. Are they the boots that are going to be put to Colorado Avalanche tonight? Well, they are $345. So, you know. So Beddard is getting $4. fired. Chris McFarlane is leaving. Allegedly. For Nashville. Sackick is, I don't know,

what are we, does, I think Sackick should just come back and take all the jobs. Back in 2001, with the ads trailing 3-2 in the Stanley Cup final, they traveled to New Jersey facing elimination. The Devils came out flying in the first period, but Waugh repeatedly saved teammates from disaster, then posted a clean sheet and a 4-0 victory, while shutting down six power play opportunities by New Jersey. That's why Sackick was able to hoist the cup

and hand it to Ray Bork following game seven back in Denver. And that's a big reason why Wa is beloved in Colorado. From Semyon Varlamov to Alexander Giorgiyev, the 15 goalies who have started between the pipes since Bednar took over for Wa as avalanche coach, ain't no St. Patrick. When a hockey team gets its knickers in a knot, a wedgy isn't going to help.

To win the cup, you don't need a goalie to play out of his mind until you do. And now, on the brink of elimination, the abs have nothing left to do except pop a copium pill to dull the pain of how it all went so wrong. All right, man. I guess this guy missed the memo that Kale McCar has been out for two games and then playing at like 40%. Which, by the way, the Bednar thing about McCar that I forgot to say earlier. this guy, he shouldn't be playing, right?

We're agreeing. He probably wouldn't be playing if this was the regular season. He played like 28 minutes the other night. He should be playing if he can get out there. But yes, in the regular season, never. He played 28 minutes the other night. That might be too much for him. Mm-hmm.

Just something to think about. I love a good local columnist getting the knives out. So I'm not going to rip on this. But I'm just going to point out. It is bizarre, though. I, this Colorado team. Watch the series and say goalie is the problem. I don't know.

This Colorado team that ain't got no Patrick Waugh in that gave up the fewest goals in the league this year. Yep. And the gap between them and the team that gave up the second most, which is Dallas, was bigger than the gap between Dallas and the L.A. Kings, who are 12th. Yeah.

I feel like the goal to, ending was probably pretty good. I feel like it was all right. Right up until it wasn't, and that's the problem. Like, obviously it's fucking absurd to be like, why didn't he just go out and get a Patrick Woss style goalie? Oh yeah, one of the goleys that we all agree is like one of the

three best ever. At worst, you're putting him third? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you should have done that. Okay, good idea, man. You're right. You know what he should do is he should have traded for Sidney Crosby, maybe Connor McDavid as well.

Then they wouldn't be in this case. I don't understand why when Connor Hellebuck, remember when he finally got pulled and then he like told the, he told Mark Chapman like, I'm out of here. I'm never going to play another game. Like they should have traded for him then. Absolutely. But they didn't. But here's the other thing I wanted to say about this series. And this is, I feel like everybody kind of forgot this.

What was, what was Colorado's record through the first 40 games of the series? season, Sean. I believe they were like 39 and 1. I think the number you're not, it's crazy that you're not far off, but I think you're not far off. I think it was 31, 2, and 7. Okay? Mm-hmm. And then in the second half of the season, the last 42 games, they were, I think, 101 point pace.

Okay. Which is still very good, obviously. but if you look it down the stretch, they played very few, relatively few playoff teams. And playoff teams that were actually good, like if you take like L.A. and, you know, one or two of these other teams out the board,

like teams that made it to the second round, let's say. I want to say they only played like six games against those guys the entire second half of the season. Now, granted, only four teams make it to the second round, and they're one of them. there's not a lot of opportunity there, but what I'm saying is they, these guys had no fucking pressure on them at all

for basically the entire second half of the season. Yeah. And then they didn't play a good team in the first round. They didn't play a good team in the second round, you know, relatively. And now they're playing an actual good team again, which that's getting coached by,

I want to talk about Tortorella in a minute too, but that's getting coached by a guy who's clearly a good coach and they've lost like four games since he came aboard with eight games left to go in the season. I'm not like, you know me, I'm not like the biggest, like watch the games, like nerd kind of a guy, obviously. But like I do think that there's something to,

you kind of empty the tank going for the president's trophy a little bit. And when you do it, and take the Bruins a few years ago, for example, right? Those guys were going to win the president's trophy in like November. And the same was true of Colorado. And then what happened to those Bruins? They lost in the first round. Right?

Obviously, Colorado went deeper than that. They didn't, you know, they didn't have to play the Florida Panthers like the ruins did, let's say. But there's just an edge that I feel like kind of necessarily comes off when you haven't played like meaningful hockey in months. maybe yeah that's and you add in the injuries and you add in maybe this isn't the best goalie in the world and suddenly it's like oh this team that we thought was unbelievable and the you know the president's trophy curse and all that it starts to make a little more sense to me you know yeah that is yeah that's that's fair what do you what do you got on tortarella what are you what are your thoughts on so i was looking at i have an article that

that I think went up while we were doing this record, where I kind of was like, fuck man, is like John Tortorella, like one of the eight or ten best coaches in the history of the NHL at this point? Okay. Very few coaches have coached more games than him. Very few coaches have coached more team,

like for more different teams than he has. He coached, I think, six and the record is eight. And like only Scotty Bowman and Rick, bonus or ahead of him on that front. And this guy's just kind of like getting more out of every team you would, like he's coached basically than you would think with maybe one or two exceptions. Yeah. He's, I mean, he's had success everywhere he's gone other than the one year in Vancouver.

Mm-hmm. Now, sometimes the success has been short-lived. He's definitely a guy with a shelf life. I do wonder if like For all For all You know I've mentioned in a few places

I'm getting kind of tired of Vegas And the whole act and Oh for sure of course But yeah and with him It's it's like okay we get it man You know like Yeah yeah But I gotta say like I

Dude there is part of me that wonders Like has Kelly McCrimmon like figured out Like a new A new move for not just hockey, but for pro sports, like the short short life coach, sorry, short shelf life coach, manager, whatever you want to call.

Like, to use the guy as basically your closer, have them come in. Yeah. With 90% of the season over and be like, all right, I don't know, your shelf life can't be this short. So go work your magic and then we'll figure it out. try not to cost us a second round pick in the meantime, but good. And this is the other thing, too, is, again, like, if you want to say Carter Hart's been the difference for Vegas, apart from Mitch Marner in these playoffs, who would disagree with you, right?

Like, he's been very, very good, especially if you kind of adjust for the one or two stinkers he's had, right? But again, this is a tortarella thing. I looked it up. You know how many times in his 22 years behind the bench? One of his goalies has at least gotten Vesnavotes? I do not. Eleven. Wow.

All right. Which is only like a third of the league gets any kind of Vesna votes. And like, okay, Henrik Lungwist, Sergey Bavrovsky, Nikolai Hobby Bullen. These are goalies that were like established before as like top guys before they, before Torderelli. got to town. What's the one time? Brovrovsky kind of was, but... No, Bovrovsky had a Vesna before this.

Lungwist had been... Oh, he did. In Columbus before? Okay. Yes. Okay. And Lundquist had been a Vesna finalist, I think, two or three times before Torterella got there. And, um, um, Habe Bool in the only two years he got any kind of Vesna votes was when

uh, Tortorella was his coach, but he was an All-Star a few times before that as well. So, like, again, Kind of an established guy. He was like 28, 29 when Torts got there, I want to say. But every, with the exception of Vibrovsky, every goalie that he's like had some kind of success with had their best seasons under him. Lundquist. Just to back to back. Just working over Gatorade tubs right now.

It's true. Look, I don't know what else to. I'm just telling you the facts here. You know, Lundquist won of Ezna under Torts and finished second the following year under Torts. Never got that high before or since. Really? Okay. Wow.

Again, Bovrovsky had one one, but he won another one when it felt like maybe his career was kind of on the down swing. And I don't know, man. I just think he gets a lot out of goalies, you know? and you know what's going to be very, very funny is when the Oilers can't hire Bruce Cassidy

because Vegas is dicking around so they hire John Tortorella instead. Well, so this is a question that people kind of have had is like, is he going to come back for next year? I mean, I can't,

I can't imagine that he wouldn't. It would probably be his decision. Yeah, like I, put it this way. If it's his decision, decision, then, I mean, he's essentially, and assuming that there's no behind the scenes or, you know, something happens that we couldn't anticipate.

I mean, he, he would basically be announcing his retirement at that point. Like, if you come in, you know, like, Rick, Bohnis announced his retirement. What happened, you know? Yeah. But I'm saying, like, if you, you get hired on an interim basis, you coach a team to the Stanley Cup final, and then you're like, nah. I'm good. I don't know.

Well, I mean, what you could do is you could open up a bidding war. There's a weirdly large amount of coaches that are teams that still don't have coaches hired for next. The problem is you're going to, like, I'm assuming coach contracts expire on July 1st. So that's a long wait. Most teams hire their coach by then. Yeah. And we know Vegas ain't granted permission for their cup winning coach to. But I mean, in terms of if he says I'm not coming back to Vegas, I want to look like I don't like living here or, you know, whatever.

That's what it would have to be, right? Or he'd be, you know, Kelly McCriman is a absolute jerk to work for and be around. And I'm the only one. There's only room in town for one guy like that. It's gimmick infringement. That's exactly right. Um, so I, I don't think it's likely, like, like, the only thing I can think of that would like really maybe make Vegas go fuck this guy is the press conference thing does end up costing them the second round pick, which, I mean, we'll talk about that in a second. And I don't know that I would mind too much if I was Vegas and I won the cup anyway.

Yeah, you can't. Or even got close. Oh, way to cost us the 64th over. overall pick. But nevertheless, like if they go that,

that fucked us, like we had big plans for that, whatever it is. Also, I mean, it is Vegas, right?

They could go to the Stanley Cup final, win the first three, win the first three games eight nothing, be winning game four, eight nothing, and they give up two late goals.

And they're like, you know what? That's just not the biggest. That's not the Vegas way. Yeah. You're out. So. You bum.

So, yeah, I just, I just wanted to say that about Tortorella. Like, I couldn't believe the amount of success. He's had relative to expectations and the amount of success with goal tending specifically. Like, I, you always kind of knew it was there, but seeing it in those terms, I was like, damn, this guy, he feels like he's a Hall of Fame coach at this point. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think coaching in the Hall of Fame is very weird, but he's certainly. he won the one Stanley Cup obviously it's weird to think about this but he that's his only trip to the cup final and then obviously this one coming up will be number two it feels like but I would have guessed that he had one more mixed in there but then you go oh yeah I guess New York only got there

after he left and blah blah blah but it does feel like he's had more success than he has if that makes sense. So, I don't know. I thought that was really interesting looking that up yesterday. Yeah, that's something.

Yeah. All right, we got two things from the Puck Soup curse from last week. Only two. Good for us. Only the two. Vegas met with the league.

They are going to have the fine still stay in place. And for now, it sounds like their second round pick is still being taken away. way. That could change. That's the part people, like, the number of people I saw being like, oh, wow, the league upheld, no, they didn't.

No, that's right. The funny thing is the league's usual MO here with Gary always chickens out is they just move it to the back of the round. Vegas might be taking care of that for you, Gary. That's exactly right, yep. They lose in the final, and he's like, all right, you get 32nd instead of 31st. Ah, damn. We learned a lesson. But, yeah.

And then the other thing, Adam Foote got fired mere minutes after the podcast ended. Yep. I feel like it goes. Yeah. And not a surprise there, although I think there was more of a case. Like, it was a little bit similar to the. Toronto situation where it's like the do guy comes in in charge and it's like, okay, can you enter your name correctly on the SAT?

I think in Vancouver you could have at least, given where they are and what next season could be like, I think you could have at least maybe made a small case for just kicking the can down the road. Yeah, I think I said it last week. Like, if you want a tank, you know, who would be a good coach to do that is Adam Foote. He's not going to do his job. But it didn't for all the reasons that we talked about last week and throughout the season. He did not.

Yeah, he just refused to play the young guys and all that kind of stuff. I mean, he had two many jobs, win games and keep Quinn Hughes happy and, yeah. Oh, for two. Yep. So, yeah, not a surprise at all. Do you think there? Do you think it's Malhotra is the easy, easy hire? Or do you think? I think that we're going to get Puck Soup cursed on.

He gets hired at 1 p.m. today. Yeah, for Eastern, to be clear. But like... Are you, if you're... I don't know, if you're Vancouver, if you're a Canucks fan, are you at all concerned about Malhotra being the coach when his kid is sitting there as a... likely but certainly not unanimous

pick where they're drafting at third overall. Like does this, can they pass on the coach's kid? Do they have to take them? Is it, do you want that? Does it limit you or is this just overthinking it and like, yeah, pick the coach's kid and off you go? Well, they asked Ryan Johnson about that exact thing. And he was like, we're not worried about that being a problem.

Well, there we go. Shut my mouth. I'm just telling you what they said. I think that this is going to be crazy, but I think the local media in Vancouver would make a bigger thing out of it than the team would. You know? It's just weird, because, I mean, from both perspectives, because on the one hand, like, how do you coach your son in the NHL, especially, like, we've seen that before.

But have we ever seen it with, like, an elite, like young player, which is what you're expecting. Poor Adam Lowry putting the fucking boots to this guy. Yeah, sorry, or miscellaneous Sutter nephew or whatever, you know. It's, uh, I, so, you know, how do you bring him along?

How do you handle that? And then let's say a few years down the line, let's say he's the star, he's the franchise player. You're going to have to fire dad eventually. I mean, I know you never think that when you hire a guy. Or are you? Wait a second. Hold on.

Yeah, no, I obviously understand all the like ins and outs of why that doesn't seem like a good idea. But I think that their feeling is this is the best coach available, right? And I think they might be right. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying he's the single best coach outside of the NHL, but he's been in their organization. They know him well. Like, yeah, makes perfect sense. Yes.

And I think that if, you know, again, it seems like they've talked themselves, like fully talk themselves into this is the, this is the move for us. And so, you know, like they're not, it's not like this is a guy they played with 15 years ago. The Siddins, that is. And, ah, we love him. Let's bring them back. He's been in the organization for years. Yeah. As a coach.

This guy has been doing every. you want to see a youngish coach do. And so... And let's be honest. This isn't like, it's not like they're naming Marcus Naslin, the coach. Like, yeah, like, Manny Belholtra played for the Canucks, but I don't think they sold too many Malholtra jerseys. Yeah, well, they're about to.

They're about to. And as far as the kid goes, like, same gimmick. You take the best player available. and if it is, this is one of those things where it's like, um, there have been instances of, of, uh, coaches at all, you know, developmental levels having their kid on the team and, like, it's not a huge deal because if anything, a coach is like hyper sensitive to the fact that, like, people are going to be looking for their son getting that extra shift.

or whatever, you know? And I think that at the NHL level, you would expect a coach to be enough of a professional to maybe even be a little harder on his kid than he otherwise would be. Boy, dude, you're summoning some tough memories for a lot of us out there, those Little League days. Oh, yeah.

No, I... I'm trying to remember. Was my dad ever my coach for anything? He might have been a soccer coach a year or two, but like, other than that, no, I guess he wasn't. Shout out to Skylar Brindamore right now. I feel like he's... That's a great example.

Yeah. Is anybody like, why Skylar Brindamore on PP Wood? You know, like, it's not happening. And obviously the ceiling on Caleb Malhotra is a lot higher than on Skylar Brindamore, who was a perfectly good college player, Quinipiac. You know, that's fine. but like the other thing is as far as I know

Kilimanel Holter is going to be you next year so it's not like this is a this needs to be a problem that we're worried about next season you know they could they can and I mean the way things are going that's he might not even you might not have to worry about it yep one and done for the rookie head coach

in Vancouver that's could happen hmm has that happened before I'm trying to think I guess it's not completely unprecedented yeah So yeah, I'm not super worried about it again. I think like outside the organization, it would feel like a bigger deal than it does inside, you know? Sure. So anyway, we mentioned Chris McFarland to Nashville. I don't know where this rumor came from.

But like, the rumor out there is that Chris McFarland, who's the general manager of the Colorado Avalanche, who you might remember they're still playing for another 12 hours or so. is being connected to the Nashville like president of hockey operations job which he could take because technically it's a it's an upgrade and of his current title and all that kind of stuff. I don't know where this rumor came from.

I don't know how much smoke there is to that fire or the fire the... It's extremely weird, right? It's really fucking weird is what I was about to say, yes. I don't understand this at all unless, you know, again, there's always a possibility there's stuff behind the scenes that we don't know about. Sure. Why not?

Jeez. Like, put together a pretty good team. People are only now realizing he's actually the GM and not Joe Sackick. So, I mean, that's tough. Yeah, he's the one behind the scenes. He's the one behind the scenes saying, we should have gotten a Patrick Walsh style goalie and Joe Sacken. I don't think we need to.

He was like, no, he kept going to one with trades. I got Shister. it. No, no, we're not doing it. So, yeah, I mean, the other thing is, like, Chris McFarland is 56, it looks like. He just turned 56. So he's not young. But he's not like, it's not like, hey, man, if I'm ever going to be a president of hockey ops, if I'm ever going to move up, I got to do it now. This is my chance. Like I get, like there seems like some of this is related to this idea that, well, his path up in Colorado is blocked because Joe Sackick has a lifetime role there if he wants it. Oh, well, he's going to get fired because he didn't get Patrick Waugh.

Oh, good point. Yeah, I just wait a little bit, Chris. But like, I don't know. Like, I know we all like promotions and everything, but I don't know, man. Okay, so here's what it is. I found it. This is on SportsNet's website. Jonah Siegel of the Toronto Star

reported that McFarland who remains under contract would be taking the VP of Hockey Operations position with the Predators. And then this is Elliot's quote about that. I do not believe it's a guarantee he's going to Nashville or leaving

Colorado, but the length of the search definitely makes it look like the predators are waiting to talk to someone. I just don't know that that's what Nashville would want to do. So I think it's just the safest way to put it is, I don't believe they have permission to talk to him. I don't believe there's any agreement in place.

So I don't believe this is anywhere near as far along as it's been suggested. But I do think it's possible they will ask, but do I think it's possible they will ask to talk to him when Colorado season is over? Yes. But I think the idea that it's a done dealer, he's 100% going there is way, way, way premature. And we should point out just because it can, it's Jonah Siegel. It's not Jonas Siegel from the athletic who's. That's right. Who's the Leafs writer.

This is the guy who he does write for the star, but he's more, you probably know him as Y Y, YZ media, or Y, Y, Z sports media, or Zed. Oh, okay. Sports media up here. And he's a guy that, like, he gets, sometimes he gets stories. Sometimes he, he has been right on things. He's not just a guy completely making stuff up on his couch, but he's also kind of got a weird history and I think he's a guy that throws things out there that that other

Oh really? Maybe wouldn't like this would fit if it was a case of hey there is some smoke here but there's not as much fire as maybe it sounds like because he seems to be where this all with this this all came from and again like he's not this isn't like an Eklin guy just throwing stuff at the wall for for clout but yeah I don't know. Yeah, he says here, apparently Kiprio said there's many that think this is a done deal and they count announced it until Colorado was eliminated or wins the cover. I don't know, man.

What a world. What a wacky world. But, yeah, I guess I have no opinion. I'd love to know how that plays out because, you know, you can't typically, I mean, you can't have these conversations until a team's out, until the team gives permission. Like, if this happens the way it's being reported, then clearly Colorado was just fine with this guy going.

Like, well, again, Elliot said there's no permission in place right now. Yeah. Yeah. But others seem to be. Yeah. I don't know. I personally wonder why you would do, because VP of hockey operations doesn't feel like it's, you know,

a huge step up from general manager. Obviously, you know, everybody gets to define what that position means. And is it, would he just be taking the GM job under a different title to get around the, like, is the idea that he comes in and then he hires his own guy as GM and et cetera or does he, I don't know, it's such a strange. Yeah, it's really strange. It's almost so strange that there must be something to it. but yeah it's not yeah you're at and where's tom fitzgerald and like i don't know because this is fucking strange i that's the best way to put it i guess we'll find out in the next like 36 hours but for now i all i can say is uh good luck to him you know predators should probably hire

somebody soon you kind of you kind of you kind of like to have somebody in place. Gee whiz, this is crazy what's going on with them. Anywho. Unless it's not crazy if they already have their guy and they're just waiting. But anyway, why don't you say the plugs and we'll get out of here. You can find me at the athletic. I'll be on with just other Sean tomorrow.

No Frankie. Frankie's busy kayaking around Europe. It'll be the two of us. And you can find my writing there. Newsletters about to go out. I'm going to get an ultimate loser update in there, among other things. So, yeah, and come find me on social media and yell at me about how cool offside review is. I love that.

And then for me, you head over to Elite Prospects. I mentioned earlier, I had my notebook for this week go up this morning and lots of thoughts. Thoughts on every single team and still standing in the playoffs, you know, up until Colorado that's eliminated, but that's a different thing. And then, of course, elite prospects, like, it's time for the draft guide to get. They're working on it. They're working feverishly behind the scenes to get this one done. It'll be out, I think, the first week or so of June. So now's the time to lock in your subscription, learn all about.

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$8 a month gets you, I think, like 10 or 12 different bonus episodes over the course of the month. So you're getting your money's worth there. Check it out. And thanks for listening. And that's it. Have a good one. Bye bye. Bye.