Puck Soup - Slaying The Kraken

Episode Date: July 24, 2020

The boys discuss the new Seattle Kraken and rate the name, logo, colors and jerseys. They rank the best and worst team names in NHL history, flip out over another dumb NHL Network list, talk NHL Awards snubs, life in the bubbles and play an exciting new game show based on Cameo! Sponsored by Raycon!

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wachinsky of ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports, and your home for all Cracken-related stories. I'm Ryan Lambert from this podcast. I'm Sean McAnew from the Athletic. And you're in Puck Soup, where we are taping the show a little bit later than usual,

both in the time of day and in the time in the week when we do the show, because we wanted to get the big news in. No sense of doing a show without getting the big news. The Seattle. NHL expansion team now and forever known as the Seattle Cracken, the Cracken, Cracken Skulls. Let's go around the room. I'm going to go to Sean first.

No, nobody wants to hear my take on this. Sean, what was... I'm only here to hear Lambert. Nobody cares about it. You're passing the Conchelle to Lambert. Fine. Ryan. What was your take on Cracken being the official name?

I think people saw on Twitter, if they are unfortunate enough to follow me, that my initial reaction was disgust. But now I've had time to think it over and kind of get used to it and think about the jersey and stuff like that. And now, you know what, Greg? I think it's freaking epic wind sauce. You know, I think it reminds me a lot of my favorite movie and book, which is Ready Player 1. And, you know, it's just one of those things where you have to be smart to get it, like my favorite TV show, Rick and Morty.

Mm-hmm. And it's, you know, now anytime I see a camera, you're not going to be able to see this, but I'm just going to turn it. look at it and go, ah! Yeah. And do like a big Chris Pratt gift face, because this is the freaking coolest. And if you say it's, you know, like a bad, like a meme name, like that's going to be regrettable in two months, I think, to many of the people involved, you're actually against fun. And all the people who like it now are definitely never going to be like, oh, this actually kind of, uh, is bad.

Yeah, a couple of things. Like, I saw that you made a, uh, Rick and Morty Sessalon sauce, uh, reference. Yeah, the freaking, the freaking mascot is going to be pickle Rick for this team. Um, I, and I did see that somebody said that, uh, they kind of called you out. They said, you know, as the guy who's always saying, hey, NHL, stop being so lame, um, that you coming, you know, Not being all in on Cracken is sort of off-brand. You should be encouraging names like the Cracken. Should I?

I'll go on fucking R-slash, Am I the asshole, and I'll see if anybody fucking likes that shit on there. Stupid. It's funny. Dude, you know what? It's funny. I read Emily's story about how they named it, and they had the name decided on day one,

is basically what it turned out to be. Well, hold on. Hold on. Let's say, no, hold on. Hold on. They investigated whether they could call the team the Metropolitan's. And in the single greatest example of Gary Bettmanism, Betman was like, well, actually, we already have a division named that. And I don't want to change the name of the division. Yeah. Because everybody loves the name of that division. Everybody loves it. And everybody has their shirt that says like Metropolitan Division champions. We love the Metropolitan Division. champions. We love the Metropolitan Division.

And look, I'm trying to think, when's the last time they changed it? Oh, right, they just said there was no more Southeast Division. That's the end of that. If I may be so bold, the fucking Major League Baseball approved a team called the fucking Nationals. And there's an entire league

named the Nationals. Yeah. Yeah, well. Anyways, look, Greg, you look at, like, You look at the revenues for Major League Baseball. Yeah. Yeah.

They're doing way worse than the NHL, I presume. So, okay. So you read Emily's story. They were on Crackens. Go ahead. Yeah. Like, everybody walked into the office on day one. And there was a note that said, like, release the Cracken.

And it's like, well, then why the fuck did we do this for two fucking years to go, oh, well, it could be, you know, it could be stock eyes. It could be, no, it was never going to be anything but this. And the reason why is another thing that Emily's story reminded me, Jerry Bruckheimer's in the ownership group. Jerry Bruckheimer in, I think 2005 maybe, had a little movie called Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Men's Chest. And there's a freaking cracking in that. And the guy with the octopus face says something about the cracking. And everybody goes, oh, epic. I freaking love it.

This is like when freaking Spider-Man and Batman are friends or whatever. Superman and Batman? Was the guy with the octopus-faced Casey Jones? Was that who that was? Davy Jones. Daisy Jones is the Ninja Turtles, man. The churtle with a hockey mask, right? Or the hockey stick?

He's not a turtle, he's a guy. Right, he's a dude. And he has both a hockey stick and a hockey mask. And a hockey mask, right. Yeah, no. Well, okay, a couple things. First of all, I was talking to somebody in the know the other day. And I said, why did it take so long if it was just going to be Cracken?

and this person said to me, well, the NHL kept on coming to Seattle and being like, how about now? How about now? How about now? And Seattle's like, no, no, no, not yet. We're not ready yet. We're not ready yet. And so it turns out that the day that they chose, they're like, we should totally do it this day, was A, the beginning of Major League Baseball season, and B, a day in which the Washington Redskins changed their name, therefore taking over. almost all of the spotlight from the, we're going to name our team thing.

I think the time difference was 11 minutes between the Seattle announcement and the Washington announcement. And it's like, to your point, why were they not ready? What was the fucking holdup? I don't know. They had to film that video of the guy on the boat with the dog in the net. But you're, Sean, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, We're going to go, we're going to tick down the, the aspects of this branding in a second. But, Sean, what was your initial reaction to Cracken?

And was it to the name? Yeah, yeah, just the name and the vibe and the whole thing. Yeah, I don't love it. I think that when I, when you first heard it suggested, like a year ago, there was a part of me that it was like, oh, that would be kind of cool. And that has faded since then. I mean, people who listen to this know I'm the traditionalist guy. It's a little, I don't think I'm the intended audience. I don't think I should be the intended audience.

I will say I'm in a house with two kids and the kids both think it sounds cool and a wife who does not care about hockey but is a big nerd. And she thinks it's cool as well. And realistically, you're not going to get the diehard hockey fan traditionalist type. That's not your audience anyways. They're already locked in on a team. There's very, very few traditionalist hockey fans floating around that don't have a team already that they're not, that they're not going to pull them off from. So I get why they did it.

It's different. It's, you know, there's some creativity to it. Well, there's a reason it's different, though, right? Like, it's different because it stinks. Because, you know, one of the other, like, I'm just going to quote extensively from Emily's people. throughout, I guess. But another thing that's actually like, you know, there's only, if you haven't read it, if, if you guys ever read it, like Emily got the inside scoopage on how they came up with a name,

the color's all thing. It's on ESPN, just a shill for a second. Like, she did a really good job. And also did a really good job laying the groundwork to get that story for like a fucking year. So go check it out. It's really good. Go ahead. Sorry.

Yeah, that was worth it. You know, it's a thing where it's like, oh, you know, there's only, there's only three other teams in the NHL that don't have an. at the end of their name. And it's like, right, that's like how plurals work. Yeah. That part is, that part is stuck. And I'm not even going to get into the whole, like, I don't know,

whether Cracken should be plural or not. And please, nerds don't get on Twitter and, like, explain the etymology of Cracken to me. I'm not asking for that. But, yeah, that part where they're expecting some sort of creativity points for dropping it. Like, that was cool in the 90s. The first few times teams did it.

Here's the other thing to say about it. One of those teams is the wild, the team that everybody thinks the name's stupid. Yes. And I found out today that group includes pretty much every wild fan. So, yeah, that's, I don't know. This one may or may not age well. This could be, look, I'm a Toronto guy. We named our basketball team.

after a popular movie from the highest grossing movie of all time. Yeah. This isn't like the fourth best Pirates of the Caribbean movie. This is at the time the most popular movie ever made. Isn't there like another crackin movie? Yeah, there's the fucking... Clash of the Titans. Yeah, no, the remake of Clash of the Titans that nobody thinks about, except through the

lens of this stupid fucking mean. But there was a Cracken in the original Crash Titans. He just wasn't a squid, though. It was like a multi-armed monster with a face and stuff. Yeah, but, like, Liam Neeson didn't say release the Crackin in it. Like, that's the reason the Cracken has entered the popular, like, mind in the last 20 years, is because of Dead Men's Chest and Clash of the Titans, the remake. And I would also say to your point, though, you know, if we're going by the grosses of films to justify a mascot,

Why didn't we have a team called the Navi? I mean, Avatar, after all, was one of the highest grossing movies of all time? They didn't have an expansion team then. Yeah, it's true. By the way, Sean, I don't think you have to worry about the internet nerds coming at you. Because Webster's defines Cracken as a fabulous Scandinavian Sea Monster. The plural of Cracken is Cracken or Crackens. So to speak to all of our points, because I agree, I don't like mass noun team names.

There's a reason why the lightning go by the bolts, because the lightning is fucking dumb on its face because it's not plural. My friend jokingly refers to them as the ning. Yeah, exactly. So, but the point is, is though, is that if they weren't beholden, as Ryan pointed out, to one line in a middling remake. It should be very kind to the remake of

the Clash of the Titans. It should be Crackens. Because Crackens is an accepted plural of Cracken, but since no one says release the

Crackens in Clash of the Titans, they went with Crackin and caused the problem for all of us because we don't like mass noun

names. I agree. Two other things about the name real quick. We wrote about it in a round table. like it's coming out on Friday on ESPN.

I give a demerit because here's something I've come to learn about Cracken. People like me who really love the name and the concept, quite frankly, it's the closest we're ever coming to a kaiju being the mascot of a professional sports team. We are the ones who influence this. It's not the people in Seattle that wanted Cracken. Every poll that they had for the team name was always like, let's call it the Sackey's. Let's call it the Metropolitans. Yeah.

Nobody wanted Cracken. Yeah, that's another thing. Emily said in the poll, like in the poll the Seattle Times did, they were like, yeah, sock eyes and I think Metropolitan's won, but Cracken performed well. And I was like, oh, really? And I looked it up. And they did a bracket-style tournament. It got eliminated in the first round.

Right. Right. I mean, I think that, I think that, you know, Emeralds was one that people liked better than Cracken. I got to be honest with you, like, the more I thought about it before the name was official, when I heard Evergreens, that kind of grew on me in that. Yeah. Like, it would have been tight, especially after you named your fucking arena, the climate change arena. Like, your team's called the Greens and you're playing a climate change arena? Come on.

That's fucking great. So that's the second thing that bothered me. And here's the third thing. And again, this is a dicey subject. So I'm going to tread as lately as I can. I did find it hilarious off the hop that it was going to be the fans being called crackheads and the place being called the crack house and, you know, the season ticket holders of the crack addicts.

We all had a good laugh about that. I completely, well, I did. And I call me a fucking chocolate night or whatever. Like, I thought it was funny. I still kind of think it's funny. But there is an entire other side of this equation, as I would. was made well aware of after the name was released where Crackheads carries a pretty heavy racial connotation. And there's been papers written about it and there are fans that have talked about it.

And the idea that there's a flippancy towards this already and will probably only continue to be so as more fans, you know, join the fan base and the team gets going. I don't think the Crackin themselves are going to like sell Crackhouse T-shirts necessarily. but it's going to be part of the overall identity of the team to the point where Breaking Tea is already selling a Crack Kids T-shirt and there's a huge backlash against it at the moment and probably will continue to be so if it becomes part of the branding. So there's a certain like uncomfortability around that part of the name although Cracken remains like obviously an easier sell than fucking totems would have been.

Right. So there's that. Yeah, you're right. It's not racist, so it's fine. Well, I mean, compared to what totems would have been, come on. This would have not been a good time for totals. Yeah, I understand that. Right. Nobody's saying that it would have been a good time for it. Right.

What I'm saying is if you're like, well, you could eat shit or I could murder you. What are your two? What are you? I guess I'll eat shit. I don't, you know, like, that's fine. I don't know. Like, it's, you know, you're propping it up against. a purposely bad other option.

That, again, they apparently did consider for a while, and then were like, oh, yeah, that would be not a good idea at all. Pretty bad. Not a good idea. Do you think the NHL would have allowed totems? I always wonder about this. I remember back in the Golden Knights Days. I mean, they're not making Chicago do anything about anything. The NHL discouraged the Golden Knights from any semblance of a gambling name, right?

Yeah. But I always wondered, like, boy, these fuckers are paying a lot of money to come be part of this league. Yeah. Tigger they get a little bit more leeway on what they want to call the team. I don't think the NHL would have had a thing to say up until a month or two ago. Yeah, I agree with that. There probably would have been some discussions about changing it up. All right.

So tread lightly on crackheads. I give the name about a seven, by the way, just because of all the things we talked about out of ten. Let's move on to the logo. What say you about the logo, Ryan? It's cool. Like, they, you know, like I like that they did the thing of honoring the Metropolitan's with just having like a stylized S. I know you flipped out about like, oh, there's a tentacle in the negative space.

And it's like, yeah, I mean, you know, like that's, they got to do something to have it. Because otherwise, like, there's nothing to indicate that this team is called the Cracken, like on the Jersey itself. so they had to do something and like that you know it could have been a big stupid squid so I

or like you know the whole S could have been a tentacle and like that would have been dumb as well so like you know they did the best they could with it the colors are good I was kind of hoping

that they would do that like really neon green that all the Seattle teams like to incorporate like that would have been a really cool edition, but, you know, I like the, I like the, the mix of the really dark blue and the really light blue. And the red is a nice touch as well, so. Yeah.

The big red, by the way, that red eye, apparently it was David Bonderman, who's like the primary owner who said, hey, we need to put an eye on this thing. It looks really tight. But don't you think that eye is basically like the eye from the San Jose Shark Shark, Shark, that they just used for this? Let me pull it up again. Hold on. Because it kind of looks like it. Let's find out.

Take a gander. Sean, what about you? What are your thoughts on the logo? Yeah, I like the logo. The logo is cool. The, it works for me. The color scheme is good. It fits the Seattle look.

I think I'm in a minority in that I'm one of the few people who didn't mind the red and black that kind of leaked a little while ago and that was suggested as being one. I don't think you're a fan. I thought it looked cool, but I also get that that didn't really fit with what we think of as the Seattle sort of color scheme. And this works. It's fine.

People who know me know I'm not like a really big jersey design guy. I don't, whenever people start getting into like, oh, there's stripes on the arm and I'm supposed to care. I don't. But the logo works. It looks neat. The little red eye is cool. even though it does, I am one of those people where I kind of flip it and see the like snake

sticking its tongue out sort of dilled. But it generally it's cool. I like the, I got to admit, I didn't see the tower and the anchor and I thought that was a neat detail. Yeah, that is cool. It's, yeah, it's, it's good. You know, these, these sorts of things, I mean, I've, I've sat in logo design meetings and I've watched consultants pitch them and it's, it's the funniest thing you've ever seen, like the level of detail and a fake thought that goes into... Oh yeah, they think they're geniuses for coming up with this shit. Absolutely. I would love to see.

I guarantee there's like a 200-page branding PDF somewhere that's going to leak and it's just going to be the funniest thing you'll ever read. But at the end of the day, it looks cool. It's, you know, my rule with logos has always been I want something that a kid can draw on their pencil case. And this is pretty good because every kid's been drawing that fancy S. on their pencil case from kindergarten on. So now they just got to add like a little tentacle and a tongue.

So I think it's doable. I like it. I give a thumbs up on the, definitely the logos. And the overall look is, it's fine. Greg, I just texted you. The Lock Monster, right? No, that is, of course, the Cleveland Lake Monsters. That's the eye that the Seattle Cracken logo is.

Yeah, it kind of looks like that. Sean, I agree with a lot of what you said. It took me a while to warm up to this. I saw a leak of it earlier in the week, and it really wasn't the best resolution, so I was kind of confused as to what I was looking at. The more I look at it, the more I like it, though. I like the fact that it's like a squid head as like the top of the S. To speak to your point about how the designers always come up with bullshit, one of the things that they said was that the rest of of the S is like the bevel

look of the hull of a ship. Yeah, okay. So it's like right there. That's... Yeah. I love that stuff. So now I got to pull up the damn S again. Yeah. To evoke Seattle's maritime tradition,

it's like the beveled hull of a ship or something is what they said. And I always love that. And it's one of those things, too, like you said, about local design. It's always fascinating because, you know, these guys will work for fucking years. to get these things right, and there's totally all these different versions, and we're going to get it. And then, like, I always think about when the Leafs put out their revamp logo, and they're like, oh, here it is, here's the new Leaf. And everybody's just like, okay, well, what about that butt that's on the leaf?

Yeah. It looks like a butt. It may be sort of sad that all that work was put into it, and then that's all people could see. The negative space thing's interesting. I know some people that are into graphic design. It's their passion, one might say. and negative space usage is sometimes really cool. And then there are other times when it's sort of seen as sort of like cheap heat, like negative space existence.

Like, oh, it's really easy to do that, but it's really hard to do it well. And I think they did it really well here. I think it's a really cool looking use of negative space. And, you know, overall, it's a real cool logo. The more I look at it, the more I like it, even if they had to come up some bullshit about like the hull of a ship or whatever, the fuck. Um, so I dig it. Um, uh, the colors. Let's get, you touch on the colors, Sean. Here's the thing about me and the colors. Um, I, for the longest time, they were promoting the NHL Seattle stuff using a salmon and light blue motif. And everybody thought that if it was

going to be like the sock eyes or whatever, like those would be the colors. And I fucking loved it. it was the most unique set of colors for a pro sports team that I had ever seen. I'm like, if they had the Cajones to make these the primary colors, it would have been so fucking cool.

And so basically it's like, um, it's basically it's, it's like, uh, basically it's like, um, uh,

seeing a really great trailer and then the movie doesn't really live up to it. It doesn't, it's like the suicide squad trailer and then the suicide squad movie. I kind of feel like that's how it is for me. the colors of this team. Yeah, the thing, the thing is that they, again, they said, oh, this is a really unique color scheme. Yeah, I'm trying to think, is there anybody in the Western Conference of the NHL with a

navy blue and light blue jersey with a bunch of red on it? I'm trying to think, oh, the Winnipeg Jets, right, that's their exact fucking color scheme. Right. And like, look, I think, I think the Jets jersey looks. good. I think maybe not their light blue third jerseys, and I think Seattle's jerseys look really good.

I really like the white one in particular. But like, again, you're not a genius for coming up with, you know, there's three different shades of blue on these jerseys. I don't know if you got, like, okay. And each of which has its own name. Like, that's the thing, because the Knights did this too, right? You can't just take,

you can't just take a color and then put like some random word in front of it and be like, we made up a new color. This is... So you're talking about, Sean, you're talking about deep sea blue, which is the darkest blue. It's like almost like black. Ice blues. It's a blue.

It's a blue that's so dark, it's like black. So like navy blue. Well, it's a deep sea blue. Ice blue, which of course is the color of Gatorade Ice. I mean, obviously. Boundless blue. Which one is which? So Boundless...

Ice blue is the color of like your light blue Gatorade. No, no. No, no, no, no, but like, I'm looking at the logo right now. Oh, oh. The middle color, like the middle shade of blue or the lightest blue? Well, I mean, obviously, look for the, look for the shades of blue that have bounds. Okay, that's true. Okay, the lightest, the lightest blue is ice blue.

Okay. The boundless blue is sort of your grayish blue, which I guess maybe is like the accent, a little bit of the accent work on the logo. Yeah, it's a cornflower. shadow blue is the blue that is the second color of blue in the striping on the sleeves. Here's the thing with the colors scheme here. And also with the jerseys themselves. As we transition to Jersey talk, one of the things I liked about the Vegas Golden Knights jerseys was that there was a lot of weird shit going on, like textures and sparkleys and all kinds of stuff.

maybe I'm just not getting it from these photos, but they're kind of plain Jane for me. Like, they don't, I thought there'd be a little bit more weirdness. Maybe some wavy shit or like, I don't know, like a fucking tentacle around the bottom or some stuff. There's not enough weird shit on these jerseys for me. They're very sort of straightforward versus what I like to see out of an expansion team. That's just personal preference. I don't think you can go wrong with like, this is a pretty normal hockey jersey. Like, here's the thing.

We haven't seen... They might not even have thirds, but, like, we haven't seen what their thirds look like. I bet their thirds they could get real fucking weird with. And, you know, when it's a third jersey, I think we're all less apt to go, oh, you shouldn't have done that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think now is the time to, quote, unquote, try something. Well, their third jersey best just be the secondary logo, which, by the way, I don't think is an anchor. I think it's like a fish hook.

It's what it's supposed to be. Really? It looks a lot like a friggin' anchor. Yeah, well, you know, it's a big fish hook that you'd use to catch a kraken or something, I think, probably would be the thing. Well, why would they want to catch a kraken? They are the kraken. They don't want to get a lot. Well, like, in theory, someone else would be.

Yeah, why would they want somebody to do that? And the word mark itself looks like to me like the haunted mansion font. I think it looks like the Pirates of the Caribbean font. for Jerry Ruckheimer. Yes. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah.

Maybe not. Some of the letters kind of do and some of them don't. But yeah, I don't know, man. It sounds like you think Jerry Bruckheimer had a huge influence on this logo. Is that the vibe we're getting from Emily's story and everything else? Well, look, like I said, they show up with a note that they, they, they, they, they, they, And, you know, Jerry Bruckheimer apparently hosted some meetings about it and about, like, the whole deal, like the color scheme and everything in L.A. with Adidas, I want to say, right? Am I right about this? Yeah, I do not think it's too far out of left field to go. Everybody was like, Jerry Bruckheimer really introduced the idea of the cracking into the 21st century popular culture.

Yeah. What did we think of their big reveal on Thursday? Were we down with it? Was it good? Took their fucking time, man. Just say, hey, really excited. Nobody wants to hear the dude talk. Like, nobody, somebody has got to, like, be able to go to that guy and be like, nobody wants the speech.

You know, but everyone worked really hard. I want to, I'll tell you what, we go on at 9, get everyone together at 8.50, you give a speech to all the people who worked on it and thank them. And then when the lights go on, just be like, it's cracking. And off we go. Like, nobody wants to hear the 15-minute speech. I did like the little video with the... The video was cool.

The teaser video was fucking cool, yeah. And there were so much... Oh, go ahead. What I thought was going to happen, though, is I thought when we, the next day came, because it was like this nice video of these, like this nice old guy and this lady on a boat and they're fishing. And I thought we were going to get, like, the follow-up, which was the crack and just coming up and flipping the boat. And, like, they die screaming and it's horrible.

And then it's just like, boom, there you go. It was the setup and delivery. But they did not do that. And that's probably why I'm not in marketing. I really hope that it was going to be more awkward than that, which was that the actors from the short video would show up for a live stage show portion of it. That would have been great. Like a real senator's army. kind of situation.

Like that would have been awesome. No, I like the video. The one thing I'm kind of bummed about the video is that I really hope that there was going to be a bunch of little cracking Easter eggs in there that, you know, on the day after they would have pointed out, aha, if you had only... Yeah, but you can't do that anymore because the Internet will find all of them instantly. And then it's like there goes your whole surprise. In true NHL fashion, though, they did...

accidentally released the logo about two minutes before they announced the name due to an audio and video glitch on their YouTube feed. Yes. Pretty great. Which is now like a modern expansion tradition that you can't. Yeah. But was it? See, I think that that logo that flashed on the screen, that looks like the old one because

that didn't have the red eye in it, I don't think. Unless maybe it was too small. I think it was too small. Yeah. It was too small. Or is that like an indication that it may be changed more recently than, you know, they had already started putting stuff together. I don't know.

I found that kind of interesting, just that it was like, oh, yeah, that's not the same one that they just showed us. Cracking. It's going to be fun. I'm excited. And people seem like they're excited about it in Seattle. They have an identity now. It's cool.

Yeah. And at the end of the day, if the team is half decent out of the gate, then they're going to immediately start making good memories with this name and logo and everything. And if the team's garbage for 10 years, then they're going to hate it and probably want to change everything in a few years. That's just the reality. You can have all the marketing in the world. If the Golden Knights, everything looks amazing now three years later, the team's good. And meanwhile, you look at some of these other expansion teams and you go, I don't know if they should have done that.

Yeah, because they've never won anything. It's really not much more complicated than that sometimes. And again, where's the bar set? Was it racist? Well, not directly. Are you going to get sued by someone else for taking their name? No. So that's good.

You cleared those two bars. Yeah. It's pretty good. But this one thing that drives me nuts whenever we have a reveal like this is like immediately, every random logo that looks anything like it, somebody is like, oh, yeah. The laundromat by my house has this logo look familiar? And it's like, yeah, man, you got Ron Francis snuck to the laundromat near your house and decided to steal. that, and you cracked the case's way to go.

In fairness, they very much took the S from the Seagram's logo. If you go look up Seagram's, like, it's just a pretty standard. It took the S from every kid's Yeah, it's a pretty standard This is like, uh, like font. Yeah. Like if you, when you get into the weird fonts, like if you scroll down and

like Google Docs or whatever and you can start pulling up the weird ones, there's like four Ss that look 80% like this one. I think that's, a, you know, like, again, I was criticizing the team a lot for the name or whatever, but like, you know, I got to have their back on this one. I don't think they stole the ass. Like, it's just, this is what a stylized ass looks like sometimes. The last thing we got to talk about is what we think their mascot's going to end up looking like. Are they going to go cuddly cracking or are they going to go scary Edmonton cat crack it? Well, we know, we know.

What are they going to do? They're going to do what every mascot is going to be for the next 10 years, which is gritty ripoff. Kind of scary, but kind of cute with the googly eyes. And he's going to be like all weird on Twitter and stuff like that and occasionally punch a child. Yeah. And they'll name it Cracker and then that'll be a thing. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

It's going to be probably a gritty ripoff. But I'm excited to see what sort of branding they do. Imagine they're going to probably rip off the Golden Knights, you know, pregame presentation thing. Will they have a smoking crackin' head like the shark head and the Knight's nighthead coming out? Yeah, I mean, I feel like they'd be dropping the ball if they didn't. You can have the red eyes be glowing and all that shit.

At that point, I guess it'll look more like Thulu, which is. another like epic Reddit guy thing, but... People were saying that the mascot should be Cthulhu. Last thing, as the long time Puck Soup listeners know, we've had many discussions on this show about people throwing seafood on the ice. Obviously, the Red Wings have cornered the market as far as throwing mullusks on the ice. Will they throw squid in Seattle or no? No, they should throw the big fucking salmon from the real. Real World intro.

Yeah, from Pike's Market. Yeah. Yeah, completely. I completely agree. That's what they should do. They should throw to fish. And they should, in fact, to complete the tradition, instead of just throwing a fish on the ice, have one of the players catch the fish after a goal.

Wouldn't that be fun? I don't know anybody's got that kind of arm. Those are big fish, Craig. They are. You're going to have some longshoremen come down there specifically just to throw the fish every game. That's a good community outreach. I say go for it. Go for it.

Have a fish tosser of the day. I did like that they said that all the construction workers and their families could come to the first game that fans are allowed at. So three years from now, they're going to go. They're all going to be in the third row of the balcony. They're going to have the, you know, the $52 seats and they're going to be feeling great about it. Is Seattle a good sports town? Yeah. They're damn loud for football.

And football. They're anywhere near that loud in hockey. I mean, like, well, let's put it this way. When they started a soccer team, like, they were selling out the football. They were, like, hugely. They were selling out the football arena. So, like, I think it's a really good sports town. Do you think that the Cracken are,

in trouble if they ever get the NBA back there? Do you think it's a thing where they're like, hockey's awesome? And then the minute the NBA comes back, you're like, fuck hockey. I think it could be like that. I don't think it'll be immediate. Again, it's going to depend who's winning. You know, if the team is what we used to think an expansion team is supposed to be in their garbage for the first five years and the NBA shows up, they may have some trouble.

But I do think there'll be some loyalty, right? I mean, there's going to be this feeling of, hey, the NHL chose to come here, the NBA picked up and left, and maybe they come back at some point. But, yeah, I do think especially the way that ended pretty badly. I also think it matters whether it's an expansion team or they relocate. I don't know who in the NBA is like a relocation candidate or whatever. For a while it was Sacramento, I think was one, but I think it might be unsolved. Well, yeah, I mean, at that point, you know, do you call them the Seattle Supersonics and then do what the Winnipeg Jets did and just be like, oh, yeah, Sean Kemp played for this franchise. Remember fucking Gary Payton?

We drafted Kevin Durant that time. I'm not taking the bait. I'm not taking the bait. Right now I'm doing that, like, I'm looking at the referee. Like, you're going to call this? You're going to jump in? And here for the first ceremonial jump ball franchise legend Xavier McDaniel. Here's Detliff Shremf, everybody's favorite. 2002 Seattle Supersonic.

Funny, fun fact. I don't know if you've ever written about this, Sean, because you've written about many things that have happened in racial history. I feel like I've covered all of it at this point. Did you ever cover the fact that Oklahoma City was a serious suitor for an NHL expansion team well before the Sonics move there? I did, yeah. I remember that was like the 2000 one, right?

Yeah. Yeah. They were, at one point, they were the, not even the leading, not even necessarily the favorite, but it was like people were like, the NHL is going to add four teams and one of them is going to be Oklahoma. And then, uh, was that, yeah, was that 2000 or was that the 1990 now that I'm talking about it? One of the two. But yeah, it was before the Sonics moved there. Like Milwaukee at one point was going to get a team, sure thing.

It was, it was going to happen. Baltimore at one point was a sure thing that this. before the capitals. Cleveland almost got a team during the original six era, and then it just sort of fades away and is forgotten. My favorite is still always going to be that like the Hampton Roads, rhinos were going to be a thing because some crazy rich guy wanted to put a team in this city that had like,

Virginia? Forgive me. Yeah. No, I remember. Tens of thousands of people. Like it was insane. But he was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to build the arena.

And they had a logo. They had Rocky the Rhino. They had everything ready to, go and it just didn't happen. But between that and the Saskatoon Blues, like the number of times this league has almost put teams in super weird places is, it's fun. That's crazy. Yeah. So, and so we're thinking this is, this is it for expansion for a while, right? Yeah. It should be. 32 is a good number. It should be. And, yeah, it should be. And, yeah, it should be. Yet they're getting $650 million out of this.

And certainly if the team is good, and now when I'm saying the team is good, I'm talking financially. If this is a successful team right out of the gate. Everybody thinks it will be. Which everybody thinks it will be. Top 10 revenue. Yeah, it's being projected well. And, you know, it sells out. I mean, 32 teams is the right place to stop.

But what do you do when somebody shows up from fill in the place, you know, Kansas City or whatever market you want to pick that's still available and says, I got $800 million and I want to have a $3013. Like, do we really think the NHL is going to have the self-control to say, no, we want to do this slowly? Or do we think especially, geez, a few years, who knows what the financial landscape is going to be like a few years down the line? If somebody comes with a big check, I don't know, man.

Like, this should be it, but let's see. Well, that's like, I don't know if you know how things have gone in major league soccer for the last decade or so. So they were in the like 10 to 12 range for the first decade or so of their existence. And then over the maybe next like five years, they were like, let's add like eight teams. Right. Like they were, now I just pulled it up. It's from, so from 2006 to 2012, they went from 12 to 19. So they added more than 50% in like five years, basically.

And then from 2014 through 2023, they're going to add another 10. They've gone from 2014, they've gone from 19 to currently they have 26. and there's four more coming. And, you know, who knows how that's all going to get affected by what's going on, like, with the economy and, you know, the fact that, like, a bunch of teams in the league right now can't even play because they're either eliminated from the tournament or everybody got sick and they don't want to risk it or whatever. But the plan right now is to be a 30-team league in 2023. And, like, the thing with MLS is there's no reason that they should really stop, right? Like, there's all these minor league soccer teams, like the USL or whatever, that they could just go, you're an MLS team now. Whatever, who cares?

And that's, like, if you can put the money together for a stadium, they will let just about anybody. And I think, yeah, why wouldn't you? Like, what, you know, I honestly don't know the answer to this. Like, did people get all worked up when the NFL went from 30 to 32? Would people get all worked up if the NFL did, went from 32 to 34 in the next 10 years? I think everyone would. I mean, it's going to keep growing. Yeah, why wouldn't it?

At some point, you're always. And, I mean, I remember when the NHL went from 21 to 24 and people. people went, okay, 24, that's a good number. It's six teams of division. It's, you know, and then it was 26 a year later. And everyone was like, oh, okay. And then we just, we just kept going. You know, this is, you can do weird numbers.

The NHL did 21 for over a decade. So you can figure out ways to make whatever it is work. But, you know, I just, I feel like 32 works. And remember, though, you have to have, I know people can say, well, there's this market that doesn't have a team, this market. You've got to have a couple of markets. that feel like they could support a team that don't have one because that's how you blackmail your existing markets

into the new arena that like you write you need a Quebec city you need uh Toronto they don't seem to want to go Houston Houston's the great because that was Calgary's fallback yeah Calgary's fallback was Houston wink wink yeah I don't know I think you're right Sean like the next thing that we see if anything might be a relocation in one of those cities that are used for leverage I don't think that we'll see an expansion through this next CBA. No, I think we'll probably...

And look, we've had one relocation in 20-plus years now under Gary Bennett. When he came in, a bunch of teams were moving because there was a... The economics just wasn't working, but he got this reputation as the guy who was trying to move all the team self. There's been one move. It was north, and it was a situation that there was no saving at all with Atlanta. But, I mean, if Gary Bittman want to be moving teams around, the coyotes would have moved, probably a few other teams. He really doesn't like moving teams. He likes to threaten to move teams, or he likes to, actually, he likes to let other people threaten to move teams, but he doesn't like to actually do it.

Yeah. And he likes to keep teams in places when people try to steal them, like the coyotes. Make sure that doesn't happen. Yeah. Yeah, but you've got to have, you know, he'd. He doesn't want to move them to Hamilton or wherever else, but he wants them to think they might move to Hamilton so that some city council closes down all the libraries and built them.

That's right. All right. Well, I think at the end of the day, the next expansion will come when we're a bit all, you know, a little bit long in the tooth. Speaking of tooth, today's episode of Puck Soup sponsored by Raycon, your Bluetooth headphones. Greg. That you love so much.

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Highly recommend this product. Everybody's bottom that listens to the show can speak to how good they are. And it's good stuff, man. Check them out. Raycon. I wanted to touch on Sean's big old article on the athletic that he did in conjunction with the Cracken being released. He did, you ranked all of the team names in NHL history. Now, we're not going to go down the whole list.

Yes, we are. We're doing it. Okay, 59. Well, hold on. I did want to touch on your bottom three. And then we'll do your top 10. Your bottom three are Blackhaw. I mean, there you go.

Hold on. You put my, right, go ahead. So first, let me just, the concept of the piece was, it's a ranking of all the names, but it is, it's, I don't care about the context, the history behind the name. I know every name has a little story behind it. It's, you know, people go, no, no, I know it, you don't like the name, but it was named after that. Forget about that. The, the idea was you're, you're a brand new fan. you're a kid, you're an alien from outer space,

you don't know any of this stuff, just what names sound cool, okay? Because I know everybody has their little story. I know the stories. I promise you I know the story. I don't care. They're not as interesting as you think they are. And so that's sort of where it comes from.

So to get to your point, Chicago Blackhawks, the name that we all know now, is I had like somewhere in the middle of the list. It's cool sounding. I to some extent broke my own rule because we have to acknowledge the current conversation around whether that name is appropriate or should stay. But I had that ranked somewhat high. What I had ranked third last is Chicago Black Hawks with a space in the middle, which was never officially the team's name.

But when the team joined the NHL in 1920, whatever it was, they were Chicago Black Hawks with no space. and then they immediately, they put that in the charter and then immediately screwed it up and started spelling it with a space. It spelled it that way for 60 years until 1986, where somebody was like, we've been spelling our own name wrong for six decades. And then they just subtly fixed it and, like, hope nobody would notice,

which I respect the hell out of. But yeah, the misspelling of Blackhawks that has actually been the team name for longer than the correct spelling is the one that I ranked third from the bottom. And then second from the bottom was the Toronto Maple Leafs. Now, this is just you taking the piss out of yourself because you didn't want to upset everybody, right? Well, there is an element of that. Whenever you do a list like that, it's going to make everyone mad.

You've got to put your own whatever it is either way high and just steer into it and just be like the Elmo waving his arms in front of the flames. Or you go the other way. and try to soften it. And so I, some of that is me doing that. But again, I said no context. The Maple Leafs have got a whole history and why they're called the Maple Leafs, and it's very cool, and I know it well, and it's near and dear to my heart. But as anyone who has ever been around non-hockey fans,

they don't understand why there's a team named after a leaf. Like, there's not a more frail and fragile thing that a team is named after other than the Maple Leaf. So I got, I got to eat my own dog food, take my own medicine, and follow my own rules of this piece. Yeah. I mean, I always assumed it had something to do with the flag, didn't it, or no? No, it goes the other way.

The Maple Leaf wasn't on the Canadian flag until 1967. What? Which if you think Leaf fans had to have enough of a chip on their shoulder, yeah, they took it. The Maple Leaf was a part of the symbolism of Canada. They didn't just take like a Leafs logo and put it on the flag, but they kind of just took a Leafs logo and put it on the flag and made that the national flag.

So what did the Canadian flag look like before then? 67 was like the first time Canada officially formally had its own real, not based on, not like a variation of the UK or a union jack. Yeah, it was like 1967 for the Centennial. They're like, we're going to get our own flag that is totally our own colors, our own thing. And yeah, that was a first. You were a real country now. Congratulations.

We're a big boy, and we're going to take other countries' queens off our money any day now, too. You wait. Well, again, your money had hockey on it for a long time, so your money's good with me. I never do that. Don Cherry on the $50 bill. Looks like a whole fucking, I didn't realize it was so new. I just, I just, like, the Canadian flag's always been a part of my life, right? So, like, I never really thought that it.

Yeah, but if you were born in 1966, you'd be singing a fucking different song. That's right. Then I would have been a whole new context. And then, of course, this has been the Canadian History Hour with Puck Soup. Yeah. The last number 59 on your list is the Mighty Ducks of Anaheim. Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Yeah, that name sucks. It did the whole time. And for a couple of reasons. First of all, and I say this in the piece, and it has generated some feedback. But I'll say it again here. The Mighty Ducks is not a good movie.

it's a good movie for children and if you saw it when you were a child and your brain wasn't fully developed yet then you like it and you think it's a great movie but trust you go back and watch it are you trying to tell me that naming something after a movie for a Disney movie is not a good idea

now hold it what I just had so many people telling me actually it's really fun again if it had been the Navi of Anahe we wouldn't have this problem Oh, believe me. There are lots of people who apparently really like the Mighty Ducks movie and the Mighty Ducks name. But, look, I mean, we all know where the name came from. Disney comes in and is like, we want to buy a hockey team in your piddling little sports league.

The NHL goes, yep, when do you want to start? And Disney's like in like eight months. And the NHL's like, yeah, sure, we'll do that. And that's pretty much where the team came. from. They wanted to call it to Mighty Ducks to promote the movie. I get it. I don't like any of it. But I get it. If you had called them the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, maybe I bump you out of that last spot. Maybe I find a way to, but Mighty Ducks of Anaheim, get the hell. You do not get to name after a child's movie and then be the one fancy, pretentious, like, naming, get out of you with that.

The shitty part about it was That's the cherry on the garbage Sunday. Anaheim also home to the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim. Yeah, right. People in Anaheim just figure out how team names are like it's city name. That's it. It's not that difficult. You can use like the state or something if you really need to.

But just California Angels is a really good name by the way. Awesome name. And an incredible logo. The shitty part about the Mighty Ducks thing at the time was I wish it had gone the other direction where the other owner that came in right around that same time named his team after his business. Because the Florida Blockbusters is exponentially better. Or Florida waste removal services because that was involved in Blockbuster, waste removal, and the Florida Marlins. So, I mean, this guy was just killing it back then.

He was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your top five, the Quebec Bulldogs, sure. It's a good name. And just, and just if anyone's out there going like, yeah, but it's Bulldogs, every team's called Bulldogs. This team dates back to the 1800s. So it's not like, this is some high school picking bulldogs.

But the thing is, the thing is, though, like a French bulldog, all those breathing problems, inbreeding and what have you. That's right. It doesn't. Yeah. They would have only lasted like five or six years. Right. Well, in the NHL, that's all they did last. That's right. We're good. Number four was the Pittsburgh Pirates.

I'm sorry, did Doc Emrick write this list? Pirates are cool, man. Pirates are, I don't, if there was some sort of pirate movie, again, I'd be all in favor of naming. But this is, again, this is back before the original six. And, yeah, I just like it. I think it's cool. The San Jose Sharks, I completely agree. I'd expect you to have, like, better reasoning than any of this.

Like, well, I did a survey. No, I just. The Sharks were third. This article came up 15 minutes after the announcement to give you a sense of how much time was put into. You're a quick writer. The Sharks were third. And that's a great name. I mean, maybe one of the best, yeah, best combination, name and logos that we've had in the history of expansion.

Yeah, and I'm not even doing logos and all the other stuff in here, but that's a great name. And like I point out in the article, that's the, Sharks is a, that's, it's the name of two teams. It's San Jose and it's Al Pacino's team in any given Sunday. So I don't know what higher endorsement you could want. Yeah. Number two was the Minnesota North Stars. It's a great name, man.

It's a really good name. That's a really good name. It's real good. So, yeah, and also, again, you know, just behind the scenes, if I'm going to, if I'm going to hammer the wild later in the list, you got to, like, pump up them, you got to get the Minnesota fans. fans on your side early. But this is the one thing that I did find interesting about this is I knew this was going to

happen because everybody, you can criticize a hockey team's coach, GM, players, current roster, anything right now or any snapshot of a team you can criticize. But as soon as you go after the permanent things, people flip out. They all think their team has the best name, the best logo, the best uniforms, the best arena, the funniest anthem singer schick, all of that stuff, they always think is the best. So I knew that everyone I didn't rank very, very high on the list was going to be very mad, that I can see how obvious it is. The Colorado Avalanche is a great name.

It's the best name in the league, also the best logo, and broadcast. 100% that I get that. And I did. I got it from absolutely everybody except Minnesota Wild fans. Minnesota Wild fans are like, yeah. They get it. It sucks, man. We hate that name.

It fucking stinks. And yeah, so they're good. But yeah, North Stars, I hate that. Well, did you see the thing where they, I don't know why this came up recently, but apparently somebody said to them like, hey, so is it like a bear or is it like a wolf or? And they were like, it's not any of that. And it's like, it's a wild. It's a wild animal.

Fuck, yeah. And that's because the thing is that, that's what I wrote is, I said, team names are nouns. Sometimes you can get away with the verb Wild is an adjective Go back to the dictionary and try again I've got like all of these wild Like wild fans are not defending it but they're like Actually wild

It is a noun. It's like I know please please don't The Wilds don't please don't Grammar Nerd on my punch lines If it's all the same to you Yeah please don't Please don't call out the grammar of a writer Number one on the list

Wow this is It's the Peter North Star So it is the Quebec Nordiques. More epic baking guy. I actually named my freaking hockey team The Mighty Pucks. Everybody goes, yeah, that's fucking cool, man. The end was a weener.

The Quebec Nordiques. The Quebec Nordiques were number one for you. Yes, again, it's a cool name. It means Northman, which is a great name. But even if you don't know what it means, I mean, first of all, they kept the French, I love. Because I'm sure the marketing consultants were like, you can't have a French.

No, they went French. But even if you don't, like it just said Quebec Nordiques. That sounds great. It's a great sounding name. You got two comedy cues in there. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, the one thing that they always tell you in writing school is if you want, if you want your article to really be popular and really go viral, you've got to pump the

tires of a market that doesn't exist anymore. That's really where you want to nail your, your number one spot. Yeah, this was classic down goes round clickbait. Yeah, I'm just going after Quebec City with two of two spots in my top five for the like one North American market that we're not in. It's, uh, I'm pretty good at this. One more ranking I want to discuss real quick. NHL network released one out of their.

The NHL network rankings of players are no, no, they did. They couldn't have done this to me at this, in this, in these trying times, Greg. They couldn't have done NHL network list famously all signs. They're just, they're just incredibly bad. They came out with their top 100 defensemen. Let me read it to you from... Oh, no. From 20 to 1.

Okay. Number 20, Shea Theodore, then Mark Giordano, then Ryan Ellis, then Morgan Riley, then Eric Carlson at number 16. Jacob Slavin, number 15, Shea Weber, Drew Dowdy, number 13. Quinn Hughes. Quinn Hughes is 12. He's good. He's not bad.

I wouldn't put him 12. I've had a bunch. I've had a bunch of Vancouver fans insist to me that Quinn Hughes is already the best defenseman in franchise history, which is completely ridiculous. And I'm not completely sure that they're not right. No, they're 100% right. The only other guy is like peak of his powers Alex Edler, and it's hard to separate that out from the Sedeans. So apologies to Mattis Olin. You've been bumped off of the list.

Yeah, I'm not sitting here and taking this fucking Yerke Lume slander. Number 11, who else? Brent Burns. Number 10. Yeah, it had a great year. Zach Werenski, number nine, Charlie McAvoy. Number eight, Christopher LaTang. Number seven, Dougie Hamilton.

The sixth best defenseman in hockey is Kale McCarr. as obviously you all know. Sure. Yeah, why know? The fifth best is Seth Jones, then Peter Angelo was fourth, John Carlson, third, Romanoise, second, and Victor Hedman first. All right, man. Like, I've said it a bunch of times about the NHL.com lists,

and it's like they exist only to piss off, like, me and my friends. Like, that's the only reason they exist. Like, you have to have suffered a traumatic brain injury before you can cast your ballot for one of these things, but that's fine. Peak of his powers, I'd say that Victor Hedman's probably the best defenseman in the league, yeah? Yeah, peak of his power. And he's, look, he's great. I think that's probably about right, honestly, right now. Is Hedman and Yossi won two based on the years they just had and their reputations and all that?

Sure. Okay, that's fine. But like John Carlson third, get a fucking grip. He's great, but come on. The thing I never get with these lists is like, what range are we talking? Is this like this year or is it the last five year? Because it's always so strange because like Drew Dowdy, he can have a terrible season and still be whatever 12th. But like March Dier-Danner won the Norris last year was fine this year and he drops like almost off the list.

The 19th, yeah. Well, Drew Doughty is going to be three. But Brett Burns is... Yeah, Drew Doughty's going to be three years in the ground and they're still going to be like, hey, he just missed the top 20. The thing, and I agree with you, like, what's the criteria? Because, like, fucking, Brett Burns was terrible this year. Yeah.

He didn't even do the one thing he can do. He was the North Redder up last year. So, I mean, it's... Yeah. I don't know. Oh, these dumb lists. I'm honestly, out of everything you just said, the thing that surprised me most is they had Douggy Hamilton almost top five.

Yeah, reasonably high, yeah. Right and appropriately high, we should say. All right. We are, actually, let's talk about the awards real quick. Anything buggy about the awards since they all came out since the last show? I mean, the only thing, like, yeah, they're going to, they got dry-sidal in the top three, and they got Carlson in the top three, and both of those are wrong. For reasons we've discussed on the podcast already, and every,

Everybody knows what they are, even if they want to pretend. Like, I couldn't possibly comprehend why anybody would not have Leon Drysigle in their top two or whatever. Well, you and I were both upset that fucking they snubbed the goalie again for the heart. Because this year... Hellabuck should win. Like, that team was horrible. He was the best goalie in the league. They, again, when the season ended prematurely, they were in a playoff spot.

I don't know what, you know, not by points percentage or whatever, but. But by points. But by points, they were in a playoff spot. So, you know. It's just bizarre because, like, if you look at the goalies that have gotten a heart win, it's usually because they propped up terrible teams. Like, Pashik. Yep.

And, like, he totally did. Yeah, that's what he did. And, like, I remember I looked it up when I wrote my, like, here's why I think Hala Bucks should win, because people kept asking me, like, yeah, he was good, but was he there? that good and I was like, yeah, here's why, you know. And the thing, when Carrie Price won, like, he was unbelievable that year, but everybody acted like the HABs were fucking terrible. And I looked it up and they were like, you know, in just about every underlying category,

like you could think of, middling. They weren't great, but they were fine. And, you know, Carrie Price had, whatever, like a 934 save percentage that year. So fair enough. Like, he was awesome and he was probably the most valuable player in the league. league. But like, the HABs weren't that bad this, that year. And the Jets were way worse than that this year. And he didn't, you know, I'm sure he's going to be like fourth or fifth. Like, I haven't talked to anybody that didn't have Hellebuck in their top five so far. Yeah.

You know. He's going to be up there. I really feel like he missed probably more than anyone on just the fact that we didn't get a close of the season. I feel like if there had been a push for the playoffs and the Jets are right there the last two weeks and he's out there playing good hockey and wins that game on the last weekend to put him in. I feel like that puts him over into the top. Because I'm going to be honest, I won't say what my ballot was. I had a tougher time than I thought getting him into my top three because I buy everything you're saying and I completely believe that goaltenders get shafted and yet there were some real good candidates and it was, it was, tricky, but I

think we're going to find out that he was a very solid number four, because I found that my ballot had four guys at the top of it, and then a fifth where it was like, this could be any... And, yeah, there were like six guys who could have been fifth, absolutely. But the thing I wanted to say, though...

Yeah, go ahead. Is about the Selke. Yeah. People just fucking go, who was nominated last year? Let's just pick them again. People don't pay attention. They don't care. and they just go, who's a guy who I think of as being a good defensive player who had 58 points this year. That's my pick.

Every single fucking year. Yeah. Is there a different way to do it? Yeah, I mean. Like, 59 points? Well, the thing, like, Sorrelli was very high on my list. He didn't make the cut. And again, it's one of those deals where he is sort of in the larval stage of a Selke guy, like, like Cateria was for a number of years before he had 76.

points and all of a sudden he got to be a nominee because of it. Yeah, hold on. I wrote about it. I can't remember the exact number off the top of my head. Well, while you're looking that up, the only other thing that surprised me, and again, it's really one of those either way you're all right is I thought that Petrangelo would have gotten in ahead of headman this year, only because his numbers were slightly better, especially on the analytics front. And then I guess the other thing that surprised me, but again, like, I don't know who the

fuck you kick out is Sullivan not getting in for the Jack Adams. Yeah, that was my thing, too. It's like, I, I think the guy you kick out is torts because, you know, he didn't tell Junis Corpus Allo to go from being like an 890 goalie to being 925. Like, he didn't come up with that. And then have Bruce Likins come in and fucking Domit for like three weeks. Yep. No.

And, like, I think that's the one guy I would kick out. But, like, he had a, he had a really good year. He coached a team through a lot of injuries to important players and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, you know, oh, by the way, the number is from 2010 to last season. There were a total of 50 spots in the top five for Selke finishes. 18 guys got nominated in... Wow. And like, you know, a bunch of them were just like, oh, you know, Bergeron was eight or nine times or whatever.

the number is. It is a reputation. It's 100% only based on reputation. And I got to say, like, well, I don't think it's only based on reputation, but it's, it is one of those where, and partly because it's so hard to measure, and partly because I think we've talked about it, maybe this is an award that we, being the media, shouldn't be voting on. Maybe this should be, you know, let the top 100 scorers in the league.

They each get a list, and you guys vote on the defensive area, or just, the players in general or the coach, whatever it is, probably not the coaches, but there's probably different ways to do it. But I do, like, it does, it's not the right way to vote for it, but it does add an interesting element where it does feel like, you know, you kind of have to work your way up over the years and you're expected to, it's, it's in a way sort of like the actor Oscars where you're like, you're expected to lose a couple of times and then, you know, eventually will decide that it's your chance and not that you've got to wait a long time.

I mean, Sean Couturier felt like he was going to win all year long. and he's he's not an old guy, but he did need to establish himself. And maybe this is, it's like you need the snub year and then you need the finalist year and then you win. And this is, I guess, it's going to be Sorrelli's snub year and we go from there. Well, the other issue is that, like, again, like it just goes to a guy who had like 52 points and is thought of his playing good. It has become the two-way player. Yeah. Yeah.

And like that's not what it says. It was like the Zach Aston-Rees, who had, I think, 15 points this year and was the best defensive forward to the league. You know, like, by any metric you want to look at, like, underlying numbers and all that kind of stuff. He was fucking unbelievable, but because he wasn't on the ice for 35 extra goals the other way, like, oh, well, how could he have been any good defensively? It's fucking psychotic to me. Okay. So, yeah, awards, what have you. Real quick, we're still in a global pandemic.

They're going to start playing games again soon. Good testing news this week for the NHL. Only two positive tests since training camp started. I caution everybody, though, this is great. And like we said a million times, if they go to the bubble, they follow the protocols. They get tested every day. There's a chance they could actually pull this thing off. But call me when these guys have been isolated for a month and a half and they are tired of being in their hotel rooms.

and they're in a place where, you know, there's other people coming in and out of the bubble. I hope it holds. I hope this is good news. I hope it's a harbager of things to come. But, you know, let's not count our chickens quite yet on this whole. Well, did you see that thing about Bill Foley doesn't want to go into the bubble, but he does want to be able to watch the team live at some point. And they're like, oh, yeah, we'll figure it out. He probably wouldn't have to quarantine.

And it's like, yeah. Oh, yeah. The NHL just put him in that fucking super great list that nobody else can get on where, you know, you don't even. even have to go for quarantine for 14 days. They'll give you that fucking letter. It's just a joke. You know, Kevin McGrane wrote something today about media access for the bubble. And I know that people, the minute he writes something like that, it's going to be there are the writers whying again. But here's a thing.

Like, well, hold on. I don't know. NHL.com is going to have a bunch of writers that are going to be inside the bubble. Like inside the bubble. Not like staying at a hotel out where, out somewhere else and only getting certain access. they're going to be inside the bubble. And it's kind of, I don't know, it's going to be. Like, at least you could have done is get, like, Steve Weino inside the bubble or some AP writer inside the bubble to lend at least some semblance of independent reporting on what's happening in there versus your, you know, the extension of your public relations arm.

I love all the NHL.com writers. They're all friends in mine, but, like, it's essentially what it is, right? It's propaganda at this point, right? Yes. I mean, that's certainly true. But also, like, I don't know, is Cameron, like, yeah, I'm super. super psych to, like, move into the fucking bubble. You know what I mean?

Like, that's, I really don't know. His point in the piece, and I thought it was an important one, is that they're not even allowed to go watch practice, the writers that are there, like, outside the bubble. And I think that's kind of strange. Like, you're going to let them in to watch the games, but they can't go in the press box and watch practice. Yeah. That's kind of weird.

Yeah. And I think a big thing here is, but look, you know, we understand why they're doing some things, but what? of all of these temporary changes, which ones accidentally don't get changed back at the end of this? Yeah. Yeah. And that's what worries me. And I'm not somebody, I don't go to games anyway, so it doesn't affect me personally.

But if we're just doing it, it was like the whole thing, remember before the whole thing blew up in March, there was that few days where they were like, oh, we're going to not let the, we're not going to let you into the dressing room. And reporters complained. and a lot of people were like, come on, like there's look around, read the room, this, nobody wants to hear this right now, but the feeling has always been, the NHL and its teams would love to not have anyone in the rooms ever. That's, they would be perfectly happy to have that.

So does this become the foot in the door to make that happen? Maybe it doesn't. Maybe, maybe we get past this and everything goes back to how it was and we all go, okay, there's nothing to worry about. But I understand why some people are watching it closely. The only thing I would say, too, though, is like, okay, you're going to go in the room and half the questions are going to be like, oh, you know, how'd you feel today?

And, oh, unfit to participate, whatever. You know, like, they can't tell you anything about a bunch of stuff anyway now. And even if they could, like, again, I always make the joke about, like, you know, half the, like, you'll defend the writers. But a lot of times, after games, especially, it's a lot of just like, well, what did you see on that goal? Was it really good to get that second goal tonight? You know, that shit. And it's like, yeah, you don't need, like, independent.

Now, I agree about the, you know, morning skate and that kind of thing, because that's where you just, like, shoot the shit with guys and get story ideas and that kind of thing. Yeah. Like, yeah, that, but, you know, I think, on some level, I think it's just like, yeah, I mean, like Sean said, read the room. You know, like, there's some pretty not great. stuff going on in the world right now. I wonder if it's going to be a thing where when we do come back to the practices and stuff, if it's going to work more like what the Leafs do, which is to just bring guys

out and not have us go to the locker room. Yeah. That'd be one thing, I wonder. And the other thing, too, is, you know, to the point of the injury stuff and the COVID positive test stuff, I read about this week. like we've talked about the medical privacy aspect of it. I completely agree with the players. I get what they're saying.

Totally on board with that. But if a guy is deemed fit to play or practice and then leaves the game that they're, or the practice they're partaking in, it's not because they stepped in a pile of COVID. Okay. It's because they probably got injured or some such. And I just find it to be absurd that, you know, I know the NHL wants to do this blanket coverage thing with injuries and positive tests and the whole thing. but like come the fuck on. Just tell us if it's an injury or not

if a guy leaves practice. And the other thing is like, and maybe this isn't just well understood, but I've seen things where guys are like not at practice and they're skating afterwards with a different group and people are like, oh, they're unfit. Calgary. They're not, yeah.

Calgary was like we talked about last week was most of it, but there have been other ones where like somebody comes out and skate. Like if guys are testing positive, they're not skating with other groups. Like they're. quarantine. They're at, so we can piece this together, but it's like I. Yeah, you do how you have to do encyclopedia brown shit to figure out.

Yeah. And I hope the players understand that like part of the gig when they decide to do this and ask for privacy is it's going to be a bunch of fucking sleuthing where, you know, a bunch of Bostonians are trolling the, uh, David Pastranak social media feeds to find out where he's been, you know, and that kind of shit. This is, this is what you. And I mean, that's the thing, right? Because, I mean, how many, it felt like all week, it felt like every single team, there was five or six or seven guys unfit to play every day. And the coach is like, I can't say anything, you know, unfit. And then at the end of the week, the results come out and there's two positive tests league wide. So if that number is accurate, there's an insane number of guys who now have people wondering who have just got like a bad ankle or who knows what.

I don't know. And again, we've, I know we've been over it a million times. I get that privacy is important. I get why they're trying to protect it. It's just this, this all seems very weird to me and very, very off the way that it's being handled. Because you can't tell the fans, hey, we're going to come back in the middle of a pandemic, but nobody think about the pandemic. Like, that's just not realistic. So you've just got this weird situation.

I guess you've got two options. One is you tell us what's going on and it invades privacy of some people who won't want that, or you don't. And we all sit around and speculate. And when I say we, I'm not talking media. I'm just talking fans. Everyone speculates and tries to figure it out when it's maybe unwarranted based on the testing numbers we've seen. Yeah. All right.

Let's close it out this week with the game show. I got a good one for you, boys. It's going to be Ryan against Sean. this was suggested by Kyle Dorot, a Puck Soup listener, in the suggestions for this month, Supulte, which, by the way,

the voting continues, and is a razor-thin margin right now between the Simpsons episode and some other bullshit. So if you want the Simpsons episode, get in the Patreon. The episode was ahead when you tweeted it out,

but... I know. I fucked it up. Seems to have tipped it, yeah. I fucked it up. Sean is rooting for a Simpsons one because it's another bonus episode he gets off. I think so.

He's like, oh, I don't know anything. If you go on the Patreon and vote for Simpsons, I get a day off. And I could use it off. So I'm just saying. Like I'm not. Tweet that.

You should tweet that by the way to let the people know. Well, that would be trying to, that would be a foreigner trying to influence your, I've heard that's not good. It's a, it's a perfect podcast. Yeah.

We don't have anything to talk about. Yep. All right. I don't want, I have a million Trump things I want to talk about, but I promise there, but I wouldn't do this on this podcast. The game show is- The freaking Cheeto in Chief. There is.

There is. There is. There is. There is. He's going to throw out the first pitch, apparently, for the Yankees coming up soon. And I'm just trying to figure out whether it's going to be a bullet right down the middle. The radar gun, the radar gun wasn't calibrated, or the mound was too high. Many people are saying it was the greatest pitch ever thrown.

Shit. The game we're going to play is called the Cameo Game. Are you familiar with Cameo Boys? Yep. That would be what's the word? Word up is the reference you're trying to pull. It is not word up. So Cameo is a service where you can get recorded video messages from celebrities for a small fee.

So you pay somebody, some bucks. And then they record a message and you can, like, send it to your friend or your wife or your girlfriend or your husband, your boy. The whole thing. It becomes a gift that you can give somebody. And there are a number of hockey people on cameo that you could pay to give you a recorded message of your choosing. So the game is going to be that you, it's Price's Right Rules. I'm sorry, it's not Price's Right Rules. It's closest to the T rules.

I'm going to say a name and you tell me how much their cameo goes for. And the closest one to the T gets the point. Now, in order to help... You can set like some goalposts here? Like, what's a good... Ah, I'm glad you asked. I have some examples prepared for you to kind of give you a sense of how much these things go for, okay?

Okay. Okay, so Jeremy Roneck, to get Jeremy Ronick, to record a message for you. For example, if you have a straight rights conference and you'd like him to be your keynote speaker, you could pay for him to record a cameo. A cameo from Jeremy Roanick will set you back $200. Jesus. Wow.

Okay. Well, look, I guess he does have to. Maybe wait a little while. I have a feeling that... Well, look, he's going to cover some legal fees. you know, who were we to judge? Now, now, I wanted to set, so that's one extreme, right? And that's probably not the highest, but it's pretty high.

Billy Jaffe, NHL Network's Billy Jaffe, Nasson's Billy Jaffe, former podcast partner of Jeremy Roneck, actually, ironically, also was on cameo. If you'd like a recorded message from Billy Jaffe, that'll sit you back $30. Okay, do you have a sense of the scope here? Now, just for my own, how do these prices get set? Like, if I go on camera and I say like, $500. The person sets them. Okay.

Jeremy Roneck legitimately said to himself, how much would, how much is my 25 second video or whatever the fuck worth to someone? And it's $200. Okay. All right. I was wondering that. I have seen this site before. I went on it once because I was going to, there's a bunch of survivor people, and I was going to get the survivor stuff for my kids.

I thought they would find that funny, like someone they watched on TV. And it was like, 50 bucks, and I was like, no, we're not doing that. All right, so the cameo game begins. Who is the last winner that we had? I think, Sean, did you be in? I think I lost to you last time. That's true. Greg won game Pat Phillian last week.

So, Ryan, you get to kick or receive on this one. Um, I will kick. Okay. Sean, now this is, I don't know why we're even kicking or receiving because you both have to guess. Oh, that's true. Fuck it. Yeah. Here we go.

Sean, just begin with you for shits and giggles. Uh, Wendell Clark, how much is a cameo from Leafs legend, Wendell Clark? All right. So, I mean, Jeremy Ronek is $200. Wendell Clark has got to be $750,000. and all right Wendell Clark

you know what geez he's he's bigger name than Jeremy Roneck but I or at least I could see there being more like diehard fans but you know

he's got the good he's a good Saskatchewan boy he's not going to be one of these Glory Boy $200 guys I'm going to say but he's definitely closer to Roneck than Billy Jaffe

150 150 150 for Bundle Clark. Ryan. 75 Canadian. So the same. We both just guess the...

No, wait. That goes the other one. Never mind. So what's your guess? 75. Yeah. 75. All right.

And yours was 150? Yep. All right. Hang on. I got to do a little math here. Okay. All right. Oh, wait.

We're doing math. So we must have been... The answer is... that Wendell Clark, a cameo for Wendell Clark, is $117. So Sean gets the point closer to the T. Oh, wow. $117 for Wendell Clark. All right.

That's, yeah. Okay. Oh, 17. All right. Yes, I should have. You got it. You got. Yeah, okay.

All right. Ryan. Yo. How much would it cost me to send you a cameo from your favorite NHL player, Sean Avery. Oh, Sean Avery thinks he... Hmm. Now, I'll say...

Hold on, before you say anything, I just want to point out, sometimes I feel... Don't read just film in me, man. Don't try to cite you out. No, no, no. I'm just trying to... Before you answer, no, listen, I want to point out that some of these people,

I think, feel like they're going to deal in volume. That's all I'll say. No, I know. That's... Okay, okay. Yeah, I'll go, uh, I'll go 65. 65, okay, yeah. I'm going, I'm going higher for sure.

Okay, but you got, give me a number. Oh, I got to go a number, yes, okay. Or do you want to, so can I, can I just say 66? Like, is that, are we allowed to? Yeah, you could go 66, sure. Yeah, 66. It's a brilliant, man. That's a brilliant guess.

It's a brilliant guess, except not as, brilliant as Ryan getting it on the fucking button. No way. $65 for Sean Avery. Okay, but wait a second. No, I was including fees and, uh, uh, uh, oh, how do you want to do this, by the way? First one to four. Okay, I'm just going to go ahead and say it.

I think Ryan has bought a cameo from Sean Avery. That's the only way he would. I've never, I've never, I, I, let me, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'm a big fan of the podcast, uh, blocked party. And they have a lot of stuff about cameos on there from, I mean, not usually hockey people. It's usually like guys who eat gross food on YouTube. So you have a sense of what the price is. Yeah, I have a general idea of what cameo pricing is, but I've never opened it myself.

No kidding, you've got a general. You're just eyeballing Sean Avery and just nailing it. Wow. I mean, who isn't eyeballing Sean Avery and nailing it? It's the best, it's the first of four. You're tied one-one. Sean, how much does a cameo from the recently single, Brooks Lake, set you back? First of all, recently single?

Yeah, I had no idea. He was married to, what's her name from the TV show? Julianna Huff. There you go, right? Yeah, she owns the Huffington Post. Oh, man, okay. Brooks-like. Brooke especially if he's like if you hadn't told me he was single

I would have been like oh he's married to a famous person and maybe that somehow bumps up your price but no he's got like I'm going to say 50 and even that feels high okay I'm gonna go with 90 you go with 90 yep and uh the answer is that Ryan gets the point because Brooks like I shit you not is asking

for $200 a cameo. Jesus. Okay, I'm starting to understand why he's single. That was probably what broke him up. Yeah, it's true. Like, your cameo prices is how you kind of envision yourself. Yeah. Right?

And this guy is, all right. All right. All right. I'm going to, okay, we're going to go to the next one. This is an interesting one. New York Rangers defensemen and burgeoning. right wing podcaster Tony DeAngelo Oh God

missed How much would a cameo from Tony DeAngelo cost Because this goes to Ryan first 50 50 55 I'm changing 55

Yeah All right See I wish I knew what his number was I'm throwing out by this Brooks-like thing I could see him being high Because I could see him being like thinking he was

Sean Hannity type dude I'll go You know what He Ryan was Ryan didn't like do the $1 trick on me So you said 55?

Yeah 80 Sean is correct The answer is 99 $99 $99 for a cameo from Tony DeAngelo So we are tight

Tide 2-2 Sean you get the guess on this one It's not all just players on a cameo. Sean, how much would it cost you to send a cameo to Ryan featuring his favorite vlogger Steve Dangle? You know what? I don't know, but I'm going to find out because I'm doing that tonight. Wait, is Dangle honestly on, on?

Is Steve Dangle? Way to go, Dangle, man. Yeah, I don't want to go get her. I got to sit down with this guy and have a beer and get him to teach me how to do all of this stuff. Well, I bet it involves a lot of, let's just say, the Chris Pratt Giff

doing that a lot. Okay. Step one, you get a hat. Step two, you turn it sideways. Yeah. All right, so how much is a cameo from Steve Dangel cost, Sean? 50. $50. Okay, so he says 50. Ryan, what do you say?

30. Ryan is correct. The answer is 24. $24 is the going rate for a Steve Dangle cameo $24. Now explain, do they have to say anything that you tell them to say? Yes. I mean, my understanding is... Because if they do, I'm going to lose all my money on this site. My understanding is...

The second this is over, I'm Googling Carrie Fraser, and I'm going to get a full signed confession from him for $37 and $0.50 or whatever it is. So my understanding is you go, like you, if it's for another person, you can go like, hey, you know, my friend's a big Ranger fan or whatever. Mark Messier, I paid $500. Can you shout out Jared and his, whatever? Like, you just come up with whatever.

And they can either accept or reject it. Like you can say, hey, Mark Messier, can you say, Wayne Gretzky sucks? And he'll just go, I'm going to not do this one. And that's the choice they get to make. Right. Okay. So you've got to be clever when you're getting them to say something that's completely out of bounds. All right.

Good. All right. Ryan, this is for the win because you're up three, two. How much does a cameo from the Paul Henderson of U.S. hockey, Mike Arruzioni, cost. Oh. Oh. 120. Ryan says 120 for Mike Arruzioni.

It's a real shot across Paul Henderson's bow, by the way. How much does it cost to get him to ask somebody if they believe in miracles? Because that's the only... Oh, my God, Jesus. I'm going to say what I... Look, my life's on the line here. I can't be nice anymore. I'm going to go $1 less than whatever it was, he said.

So $1.19? Yes. Mike Ruzioni. who has a legend in the United States sports history is charging $300 for a cameo. This website is broken. So Ryan gets the point and the game. I'll give you one more just for shits and giggles

because this one kind of... Go ahead and give it. I'm on the site already, and I'm halfway into the... Ryan, you're getting one from Dangal, and Avery tonight. So, uh, if you're on the site, let me get, let me just give this to,

to Ryan then, because you might, you might have already seen it. Ryan, how much does a cameo from Dave Hanson of the Hanson brothers of Slapshot fame caused you? Yeah, that's,

what do you think? Let's go back to the, to the, Jeremy Rona classic 200 Buccourneys. No, it's a deep discount of 116. For Dave Hansen of the Hansen brothers. Great. Good for you. The rest of the list real quick.

Chris Chelyos, 75 bucks. I think he's really undercutting himself on that one. John Scott, a hundred bucks. Come on. My favorite one, though, of all of them, I'll give this to you as a question, Ryan. How much would a cameo from noted Twitter follower, Zach Boychuk set you back?

30 cents. Yeah, I'm gonna... But he does a million a day. I'm gonna go 25. Oh, you're so close, it's 20. Yeah. 20 bucks. There you go.

I'm looking at this list. Former low walk monster does that boy chuck? You know what, there's... I feel like you buried the lead because the fact that Chris Pronger is on here... Mm-hmm. You could have had me make a list of everyone in the hockey world. Yeah.

in decreasing likelihood, and he would have been the last guy, I think, on this entire list. What's Prong's going to run you on that site? $150? 99.9. He was that much? 99. That's fine. That's Tony DeAngelo numbers.

But to answer your question from... Brad Marciaun's on there, too. Yeah. To answer your question from before, Sean, that's why I didn't give you Dougie Gilmore because Gilmore is actually charging $93 in the most fucking hockey... See, once... I wouldn't have thought of that the first time, but once Wendell was 17... that would have 100% been...

Yeah. I would... Dangles done at least three cameos, by the way. Yeah. There's a ton of NBA players on there. So, like, I think that's a big, big thing in the NBA. I don't know. Maybe it'll catch on in the NHL as well.

But there's... I know for sure that, like, the NBA is... Everybody has one. Not everybody. but like anybody who's like a mid-tier or below player has one. It would be like if half the league in the NHL had a freaking cameo. By the way, real quick, for the folks that liked watching or listening to Musum Pod, Melissa King, 165.

Ryan? That's high. That's high? Richard Blaze 110. Reasonable. You freaking guess. Judge multiple years. And here's the most fucked up part.

Carla Hall, an icon. Only $85. Jeff Morrow, the sandwich king of Chicago that's on the Food Network's The Kitchen, is $1.15. Too much. All right. We could do this all day. The market bears what it bears, folks. Indeed.

That's right. That's Puck Soup for this week. Man, what a great episode this was. Our thanks to the Cracken for making news for us. Our thanks to Raycon for, obviously, for sponsoring the show. Go check out the mailbag on the Patreon, and do keep your eyes open for the next bonus episode, which, again, if you'd like to give Sean some time off, will be The Simpsons episode. but maybe you don't.

Maybe you don't want to listen to me and Ryan. No, you do. You absolutely do. What's the one that it's up against the, like, cringiest? I don't even know what that. The cringiest moments in NHL history. I would, guys, I'm going to mail that one in heart, so you might as well just let the boys do what they want to do.

Mm-hmm. Let the slam. Dita, do-da, let the boys be boys. Let the boys be boys. Let the boys be boys. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening. Talk to you next week.

Bye. See you. Bye. Bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense.

Part two.