Puck Soup - Staying Busy

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Sean and Ryan talk about Stan Bowman making it official in Edmonton, player contracts, and an ESPN list before playing 20 Kesstions. Sponsored by Factor (factormeals.com/puck50), Mint Mobile (mintmobile.com/puck) and AGI (drinkag1.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I am Sean McIndoo from The Athletic. And we had a pretty busy week for being the end of July, honestly. Let's start, I guess, with the big news. Stan Bowman, hired in Edmonton. Nobody's really surprised by that, I don't think. No. They did a good job of floating the balloon out there

and making sure that everybody kind of knew what would happen before it happened. Yep. I don't know. I think we talked about this. I can't remember. It must have been on the main show. I don't think it was on just like a bonus episode or something. What are your general thoughts on this whole thing?

So, I mean, there's the two separate questions here, which is obviously the, the, fact that he's being allowed to return to the league, should he be, has he done enough? What exactly has he done? The fact that he's got, you know, Sheldon Kennedy backing him, I do think is. And apparently Kyle Beach. Yes. Sort of.

Sort of. As, as we've, you know, we've been told that he has spoken to Kyle Beach and kind of has some support. I don't, not that, not that anyone expects Kyle Beach to be front and center. you know, at press conferences, but, you know, I'll sort of take that with a bit of a grain of salt. But I agree.

I will say, like, and again, I've, we've talked about this. You go back and read the, the Block and Jenner report. There is, I think what has been represented by some people as far as what Stan Bowman knew and what he did or didn't do is not reflected in that report.

right i am i i will say i'm more sympathetic which is a maybe not a great word but i'm more sympathetic to the case of stan bowman than to joel quenville is my yeah sure based on the report stan boleman was not told that there was an assault he was told there was some sort of incident and his boss who was in the room said i'll handle it and he absolutely you could say look man, you're the GM. Follow up. Ask some questions. Clarify.

Don't let people leave the meeting unless you say, wait a second. What kind of incident are we talking about here? Let's get specific. Yeah. 100%. I guess what I would say is in terms of the 2010 Blackhawks, I have a lot of time for anyone who says, you know what? Based on what happened, based on what happened afterwards, everybody in that room should not

work in the NHL again, period. That's it. No, I don't care what work you do. I don't care who you talk to. I don't care what kind of PR you do. You're out. I don't have an issue with that. I guess my, what I would say is that if you're among those who say, you know what, yes, second chances, yes, that sort of thing, but you have to do the work, you have to, you have to earn it. I'm not really sure what else Stan Bowman could do here. Right. No, I agree with that.

If you agree that the door should be open, I think the door has to be open as Stan Bowman. Now, the second part of the equation is, is this the best GM candidate for the Edmonton Oilers? Just purely from a hockey perspective. And that's kind of its own completely separate issue, but it is also part of the question. And then those two sort of combine to the point where you go, if he's not far and away the best candidate, why be the organization that sticks your neck out on what you know is going to be a very, unpopular hire that might send some some really negative signals to a lot of your fan base who as I said are in that camp of

I don't want to see any of these guys again period yeah and I think that synthesis between those two ideas um like is this the best guy and like why stick your neck out for him I think that's the the whole issue for me because um I'm just going to read you some guys who were on the team before Stan Bowman got hired. I think it was like July 14th or 15th, 2009. Patrick Kane, Jonathan Taves, Christopher Steig, Brian Campbell, Andrew Ladd, Dave Boland, Patrick Sharp, Duncan Keith, Dustin Bufflin, Troy Brower, Brent Seabrook. You know, you can maybe add in Colin Fraser to the mix if you want to, Sammy Paulson, Nick Chalmers. Samerson, Brent Soapel, anti-Niami.

That's basically the team that won the Stanley Cup, and they were on the team before that. And you go, well, I didn't hear Marion Hose's name. No, you're right. He signed two weeks before Stan Bowman became the GM. Yep. And Corey Crawford was already drafted and in the season. Was a drafted player? Yes, that's correct.

So, yep. I mean, it was Dale Tallon built that team. There's a reason that Dale Tallon got a Stanley Cup ring from a team he was not working for. That's right. And in fact, it's been fired from, this is for people who don't remember. The reason Dale Tallin got fired is a very similar reason to, well, similar in spirit, I guess, to why Pierre Dorian got fired in Ottawa. There were a bunch of faxes that needed to go out for qualifying RFAs in 2009. And Stan Bowman just didn't hit send on those.

Dale Tallon, yeah. Dale Tallon. Yes. Dale Talon. Missed the deadline. Miss the deadline. Miss the deadline. I think it was only by a few minutes, but like the deadline's the deadline.

Didn't hit it. And, you know, that's the kind of goof him up that, that'll get a GM fired. Yep. So Stan Bowman comes in. And let's not say Stan Bowman came in off the street, you know, like he had a, he had a resume in his hand. He worked for the team already. Yes. So if you want to say he had a hand in building this team.

Sure. Okay, great. Okay, great. But I want to talk about what Mark Lazarus wrote about the good, the bad, and the ugly of Stan Bowman's career in Chicago. All the guys I just mentioned, Brian Bickle, another guy who would go on to play at least some role in the cup runs, plural, of course. He Las says His fingerprints are all over the 2013 and 15 titles

As he massaged the roster And repeatedly found quality depth players Despite being in salary cap hell Losing key players every summer Chicago lost 11 players in the summer of 2010 And Bowman adeptly rebuilt around that brilliant core Again it's the brilliant core thing Now okay

This is the first thing he credits Bowman with doing He chose to match San Jose's offer sheet to Nick Chalmersson, even though it cost him cup winning goalie ante Niam. Well, anybody would match Nick Chalmerson and figure the rest out later. I'm telling you, this is a league. How many, how many offer sheets have been not matched? That is true, but I do remember at the time a lot of people going, oh, this is a

brilliant move by San Jose because they, the Hawks can't match this. And it's a guy that's a guy that's a guy. Yeah, and it's a guy that at the time was viewed as like a good player, but not a core player. Sure. His acquisition of defenseman Johnny O'Dooia in 2012 paid massive dividends the following season in the 2015. Sure. Yep. Absolutely.

In spring 2013, he added Michael Hansus at the trade deadline. Now, I think you could say that about 45 GMs in the history of the NHL. They added Michael Hansus at the deadline. That seems about right, yeah. Yeah. He had a history of finding hidden gems such as Michael Furlique and Andrew Desjardin off other team's scrap-heaps. True, absolutely. Yeah, that's good.

That's good to do. Bowman essentially invented the long-term injured reserve loophole, taking advantage of Cain's broken clavicle to trade for Antoine Vermet, who played a significant role in the third cup run. And it's significant as, you know, your mileage may vary on that. Got benched in the playoffs, but then came off. came out of the press box to score a crucial overtime winners. Yeah. You know, yeah.

Like I said, your mileage may vary. Now, to a lot of people, this is actually, like, this is a thing in his favor for me, right? Of, oh, we love the LTIR loophole. Like, if you're a GM, why wouldn't you take advantage of it? It's true. Bowman essentially was like, oh, if I just pretend Patrick Kane's like really hurt. He can miss the last, like, three weeks of the season. We'll bring in Vermet, no problem.

That's good. Other stuff. Finding late round picks that work out really well. Phil Dono, or not late round, but like later picks. Phil Dono 26th overall. Brandon Sodd, 43rd, Andrew Shaw, Tevo Terravine, Ryan Hartman, Nick Schmaltz, Alex Debrinket, but his two top ten picks, Adam Bockevist and Kirby Doc,

didn't work out, and neither is with the team anymore. You can also say that about, you know, a bunch of the guys. He traded Brandon Sadi, traded Andrew Shaw. He traded Dave Oterivine and next one. You know, go down the list. Now this one, I'll give him credit for that. Those are all good players to one degree or another.

This one, to me, drives me fucking crazy. I saw people saying this a lot. So I'm not like putting this just on Lazarus. But like, oh, he got them to sign. He got the following European free agents to sign. Artemmy Panera and Eric Gustafson Michael Kempney Jan Ruda, David Campe, Dominic Cahoon Dominic Kubolik, Pew Souter

all came over from Europe and made instant impacts Yeah all he had to say was you guys want to play with Cain and Taves Yeah That's not hard any idiot can do that The Panarin signing was really good He kept him right like he Yeah so he locked him around He's still there of course

In Chicago okay good yeah I mean Here's here's the thing, though, I think the case you have laid out against Stan Bowman. I mean, you've laid out a balance case, but I think it does kind of tip to the negative. I didn't even mention Seth Jones, the

Wrenziburg contract, the Richard Panic contract. But here's the thing. If you look at Stan Bowman and say, yeah, this, yeah, he got three cup He didn't build that team. He inherited a team that was right on the cusp of winning a Stanley Cup, and all he did was patch it up, find the right depth pieces, managed through the tough cap with a job that was 90% done. If I'm an Oilers fan, I'm like, sounds great because that is exactly where the Oilers are now. So this is a Stan Bowman's special.

The Oilers are way more of a finished product than Chicago is, though, which, you know, maybe that's good if you're Stan Bowman, right? Well, I mean, Chicago was one season away from a Stanley Cup. I understand. They had just been to a conference final. Obviously, Edmonton went to the final. So, I mean, but yeah, you could say that Edmonton's even closer than Chicago was. So if this guy's specialty is, look, man, I can't build the car, but I can push it over the finish line. We're right there, man.

Push away. Well, this is the other thing. All that stuff about, like, he managed the cap really well and blah, blah, blah. This is a Cam Robbins And tweet Cam Robbins From elite prospects as well He traded what amounted to David Yerecheck, Cole Cillinger,

and Adam Beauchrist And a second round pick for Seth Jones Gave Seth Jones that big extension Trey Trey-Roman for Brandon Sott, a guy that had already been on the team traded early prime Dustin Bufflin for a late first round pick traded prime age Tavoterovin for a mid-second

Right? Like it's just You know. And again, some of the, like, Buffaloan was just cap hell. Yeah, of course. All of these guys were cap hell. Well, maybe not. Penarin was kind of.

Oh, well, Panarin. Let's bring back the other guy that we liked from before. Well, Panarin was also like, we're going to have to give this guy $40 million a year. You know, like, he was running scared from that contract for sure. And that's, that's Seth Jones money right there. For sure, yeah. No, I'd much rather, I'd much rather have Seth Jones.

I mean, he's still with the team, so it tells you a lot. What do you mean untradable? Oh, interesting. It's completely untouchable. Oh, no, it says untradable here. Okay. Those words mean the same. So my thing with Stan Bowman, to your point, this is a man who's the most born on third base guy in the history of the league, which is saying something.

Born on third base, Scotty Bowman's kid, right? Like, right out of the gate. And I'm not saying he didn't work. card and blah, blah, blah, blah. But, like, that's going to give you a leg up in the business. I don't care what else you have to say about that, right? Born on third base. All that stuff about the team from earlier, you know, all those guys are already there,

including Mary and Hosa had already signed. Born on third base. Now he just walks into a team with the two best players, or, you know, two of the five best players in the world, the best player in the world among them. And then like born on third base, his first move gets to be a Leon dry-sidal extension. Yeah. Right? Like, he's just like, oh, yeah, this is easy, this GM and shit.

Yeah. Fucking not a problem for me. I hear you, man. And man, the Oilers talk about a team that has just put its cards on the table. as far as Van der Kaine, Corey Berry, now Stan Bowman. Like, we're always talking about finding the next market inefficiency. Like, the Oilers have clearly decided that guys that a lot of other organizations would not, don't even want to talk to bring them in to Edmonton. They don't care, man.

Like, it's sort of, I don't know, I get it. I get. And, you know, there's a certain element of being a fan where you're like, good. Good, do whatever it takes. Sure. If it's, you know. But then there's also, I'm sure, a lot of Euler fans who just feel very icky about all of this. The other thing I want to talk about, by the way, regarding that, is how much work Jeff Jackson did to improve a team that went to a Stanley Cup final this summer?

Like, really, really, really strong signings. Yeah. pretty much across the board. Victor Arvinson, like, if that works out, holy shit, man, that guy's going to score a bunch of goals. You know, Matthias Yanmark? Like, the only thing that I have a problem with for Matthias Janmark, if I'm Stan Bowman here, is that I'm like,

oh, I was going to, like, trade for that guy at the deadline, and then when we go to the conference final or the cup final, and he scores two goals, I'm going to look like a genius. That's, like, the exact guy that you trade for at the deadline. deadline and whoa can you believe how useful that guy is you know um signed somebody on defense too didn't he uh was it Troy Stetcher maybe yeah just like a guy where it's like oh he's he's gonna be he's gonna be pretty useful um yeah I don't know I like I got I got no problem with uh with anything Jeff Jackson did this summer like I think they yeah they really improved the team quite a bit

and that saying, oh, and Jeff Skinner, too. I forgot about Jeff Skinner coming off that buy-in. Like, man, the depth here is probably going to outscore the opponent, which is not a thing you can often say about the employers. And they made that trade with the Sabres that we liked where we said at the time that we thought the Sabres had lost a trade to a team with no GM. Yeah. But, yeah, it's good.

Look, it's a 95% finished product. in Edmonton. And sometimes that last 5% is the hard part. We talk a lot about how when you see a GM come in and start doing the tear down, that that's the easy part. And getting across the finish line a lot of times is the absolute toughest. But, you know, maybe Bowman's that guy. But I think, yeah, sort of two overlapping circles of reasons why that might not be the case.

but it certainly sounds like they had their mind made up on that hire for a while. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The other thing we should say, I saw this this morning, is that there is a rumor out of Edmonton that Leon Dreisdell's signing is imminent. But then if you, like, actually read what the guy said, maybe not so much, basically. I don't do that. I'm going to go with Dore, just.

Yeah, I think that's... Believe the forthhand interpretation of something... But I will just read what Bob Stouffer said on his show, having spoken to one of Drys Eidels agents, apparently. Quote, it's going to be a seven-or-eight-year deal. It's probably going to be an eight-year deal realistically. The reality is that the Edmonton Oilers organization,

for the success of the Edmonton Oilers, the two biggest things they need to do in the next two years is get extensions with Leon Dreissel and Connor McDavid. And that's not lost on Stan Bowman, who did resign both Patrick Kane and Jonathan Taves to eight-year deals at 10.5 million. It is my belief that we are probably looking at an eight-year deal for Leon, and if I was representing Leon,

I would want an eight-year deal for a 29-year-old player. Yep. That's all it was. And, and, ah, man, I'm so fascinated to see what this number comes in at. Because you're right. It should be like if I'm, if I'm, if I'm dry side, I want, I want eight years. He's at that age that you're absolutely right. And also like, you know, what's, I talk sometimes about the shiny new toy where a team acquires a guy. And then it's like, hey, look at this trade I made. And everyone's like, holy crap, you got Jonathan Hubertoe. That's amazing. And then it's like, well, now I got to give him a big contract to stick around. I can't turn around play hardball. It's almost the flip side of that, right? Like what's a new job? GM going to do. I'm going to come in and my first order of business is going to be to really piss off arguably the second best player in the league.

I'm going to play a hardball with this guy and really like, no, you're going to sit down. But I want to see what the cap hit number is because... I think it's... I mean, the highest cap hit in the league right now is Matthews at 13 in the quarter. Should be higher than that. Should be higher than that. Is it 13 and a half 14? You know, I think what ultimately happens here, if I had to guess, is that you basically get the Taves and Cain thing where we're signing for the exact same contract.

For M. and McDavid, you think? Yeah. Like, let's say 14, like McDavid shaving a little off, you know, to make it work and all that kind of stuff. I'm going to not look up how the Cain and Taves contracts ended up working out for Chicago. I'm assuming fantastically. Yeah, I think they did. But I think that's just the thing that makes sense. It's like McDavid takes a little less because he can then, you know, that's an extra million and a half dollars you can use to do something at the bottom.

You know, Dylan Holloway gets an extra million and everybody's happy with that, you know. I think that's probably what happens. I'm just looking up the percentage that can. and Tave's sign for. Which was like 14.7%. And that of an 88 million cap hit comes in almost exactly a 13 million, which is just, that's not enough. Well, I mean, those contracts will kick in next year. So call it 90.

Yeah, good point, actually. Yeah. Well, McDavid's would kick in two years later. Two years from now. So 95%. See, I was going to say it's, whatever the number is. And if anything, that is kind of the reason to at least try. bri to hold the line a little bit if you're Edmonton because every dollar you can push

dry sidle's number down is almost two dollars because it totally you know mc david i i i don't i don't know that mac david's going to give gonna sign for leon money i think he's going to set the reset the bar but they're attached one way or another right like it's sure um but yeah no he should he should be getting more than Matthews money, if only because unlike Austin Matthews, he's just finished a contract where he was massively underpaid. There is no reason at all for him to say, I'm taking any kind of discount other than to say we're right there at Stanley Cup. And, you know, I don't want to take away a dollar that could go towards putting improvements

around us. But I'm fascinating. to see what that number comes in it. Yeah, they're going to... This is... I mean, this is for a lot of reasons, like the team to watch this season, right? Like, they're fun to watch.

They're probably going to win the president's trophy the way things seem like they're shaping up. Or at least they'd be the favorite. They'd be the favorite to win the West at a bare minimum, I would think. So, like, you know, if you like drama and excitement and all that kind of stuff, Put down your freaking Game of Thrones, watch the Edmonton Oilers, you know?

Yeah, put down your phone, kids. Yeah. Look up. Take it all in and watch oil highlights on your phone. Oh, right. Yeah, sure. Some contracts that were assigned this week. Let's start with the big one here.

Travis Kineckney, eight years, eight and three quarters. It caught me by surprise a little bit. I'll say that for sure. 27 years old gets the full 8 years And this is He'll be 28 when this

Contract starts Right, because this is an extension Correct Yes, I think he's locked in At 5 and a half For this coming season

So it takes him to age 36? Yeah, that's right. Oh boy. I like him a lot As a player But for a guy Who is in his two best years

A point of game guy And in fact, I'm being a little bit of time. Being a little generous. That's right. Now, I compared him when I wrote about this over the weekend. I compared him to two players. Dylan Larkin and Matt Barzell. Okay.

Where it's like really good player. Yeah, awesome. If he's your best forward, is that not a problem for you? Yeah. You know? And it just, for a guy that it seemed like they were trading, at various points in the last year to be like,

you know what, nine more years of this guy. It's interesting to me. I don't know. I just looked up Dom's take and based on his model. Yep. A deal that might be a little rich to start

and possibly very rich at the end, he'll need to take another step forward to be worth the money. Yeah, that sounds about right to me. And... Yep. Boy, that's a gamble if you're, if you're Philadelphia. And yeah, cap going up, blah, blah, blah. Eight and a half million, you know, within a couple years, eight and a half million might be second line money.

But, I don't know. I don't love that one. No. Can I hate you with an upsetting statistic? I enjoy being upset. Between him, Sean Couturee, Owen Tippett, and Joel Farabee. the flyers are paying almost $27 million for the top four forwards until 2028. It's a lot of money for a team that sucks, in my opinion.

It's a very weird rebuild. Like, you know, it's not a rebuild, though, is it really? It's not if you lock in your previous guys that, yeah, boy. Well, like, I guess why I'm saying that is this is a team that's never going to, like, intentionally finish bottom five in the league. Right? Like even when they... It felt like they were trying to do that last year,

but they forgot to tell the coach. Well, I mean... Which I guess is to your point, right? You don't bring in that coach if you're trying to finish bottom five in the league. He's just a guy that's going to get more out of a roster than you might like. And if the goal is making the playoffs,

they probably would have done that if they had anything even resembling good goal attending, I think, like, team 880 something last year. And especially down the stretch, they completely collapsed because, you know, Carter Hart, they made him go away forever, probably. Yep. And so, like, the thing that I'm a little worried about if I'm a Flyers fan is the goalies that, like, completely sucked down the stretch and, like, sank the team. Those are their two goalies for next season.

So I don't know what the, I don't know what the idea is there. But I think the way they kind of view connect me is, look, he's our best forward. We got to keep him around because we're not going to tank. And giving away your best player is kind of like admitting to a bigger problem. Now, they would have probably gotten quite a bit for him. We'll talk about another player that people thought was going to get traded in a bit.

But, yeah, they're just at a weird point in their, I don't even want to say competitive cycle, because, like, they're not competitive at all. Yeah. And the tough part is, you know, you can look at it if you're Danny Breyer or whoever and say, this scene was right in the playoff mix all year last year until the very end of the season. Yeah, and only sunk by like near historically bad goaltending. Like the seven-fourth team goaltending in the cap era, something like that. So, you know, we're right there. But boy, you could see this being a team that like November 1st is already six points out of the playoffs.

And they're going, oh-oh. Very easily. And then you're just committed to all these guys. You're locked in. Yep. You know, like, I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily to be super committed to like Owen Tippett and Joel Farabee through 2030 or whatever the numbers are. No, I think it's 2028 for Farabee and then he needs a new contract, which will presumably be a lot of money. And then obviously Matt Veemichkov, like midway through early, relatively early,

in the Kinekney extension, he's going to need big money, and maybe you say, well, at that point, you know, Keturier's money's off the book. But not really, you know, Keturier is, he's 32, yeah, he's going to be 32 in December. So, you know, it's, it's just a situation where I worry if I'm the flyers

that all this goodwill they've built up by getting your, your Mitchcoves over early and all that kind of stuff. It just kind of gets torpedoed if the team, like you said, on November 1st. It's like, oh, yeah, we lost like eight straight in October. Yep. It's really, it's really. Six of those losses would come in overtime, so they're still.

Win's a win, you know? Or points a point, I guess. A win to win is true, but we're not talking about that. So, yeah, I'm interested to see how things go in Philly. Like, weird year in that division, and they still couldn't make the playoffs. Another big contract signed yesterday. Brock Faber, eight years, eight and a half million bucks. I do not understand why young players keep doing this.

And other than that, Katie, you can take the clip of me saying this for God knows how many other guys and just replay it. I don't understand why you sign for your entire prime at a flat rate in a league where the cap is going to be going up. potentially significantly. But that said, I think it's a fantastic deal for Minnesota. Absolute. They got their guy locked in at a very, very reasonable number. I think it is potentially a good deal for Minnesota. Look, I look at these numbers, you know,

and I'm like, oh, Brock Faber, like, he was fine this year. On a not particularly good team, obviously. So he played the majority of his five, on five minutes with Jake Middleton. And I think Jake Middleton's quite a good defenseman, but those were, you know, not easy minutes, let's say. And Faber actually grades out better with his, with or without you stats than, you know,

like away from Middleton, he was better. But like, you know, he was kind of their matchups guy. And I don't know. It's a little, it's a little tricky for me to, to kind of separate out like his underlying numbers are only okay. And I don't know. Like I said, I think there's a lot of potential here, obviously. And I totally see what you're saying about like, you know, three years from now.

What's the floor for this? Thomas Shabbat? Like, is that? Yeah, I mean, well, I'm not saying there's no scenario where he could underperform the deal. But I look at the ceiling, I look at the floor, and I'm going, if you're Minnesota, you take this bet every single time. Yeah, I think that's right. Again, like how many guys signed big money deals coming off their rookie year? I think this is probably the most money ever given to a guy coming off his rookie season, at least in the cap era.

Because usually you have like two years, you know. But Faber coming out of college burned the, you know, got Minnesota to burn the, you know, the first year of ZLC. I also think it must be said that there is like a dollar value to being a guy from Minnesota in Minnesota. You know, like, I'm sure you could go back and calculate, like, if you're from Minnesota, this is what the average AAV bump is. Okay.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, they love signing guys from Minnesota. They just fucking can't stop doing it. They can't get enough of that shit. Yep. And it always works. It, I mean, look at, look at all the success they've had.

That's right. Oh, wait. Hold on. So, yeah, I, I don't know. I'm a little, I'm a little wary on just, again, anytime there's everybody saying this is a steal, I'm just like, you know, they barely outscored the opponents when he was on the ice. and their underlying, their XGs were also not very good. When, you know, again, maybe right around 50. So it's a little tough for me, but like I say,

I think this is a really good young defenseman. I just think he's not worth $8.5 million now. And the way people were talking about this, I was like, maybe I watched a different Brock Faber than you guys where you're saying like, oh, slam dunk. You know, that's all. I think it's possible that did happen. I think you were watching. It's possible.

Yeah. Just a different guy. Yeah. I mean, again, he's really, really good. He's what, 23, 22? Maybe not even? Mm-hmm. And, yeah, he's not 22 until mid-August.

So I totally get it. it. I totally get it. But let's not, you know, let's not spike the football here. That's all on. All right. That's all. Another big one yesterday. Marty Natchez, two years, six and a half million bucks per. You'll kick the can down the road. Yeah. Again, a guy everybody thought was going to get traded. Then they were like, I never mind. We'll keep them. I got some good info from Frank Saravalli on his podcast the other day on this. Sabers had a trade for Martin Natchez worked out, but he wouldn't sign there.

Hmm. And the Jets offered Rutger Magrorty, Cole Perfetti, and a pick, but the deal never materialized, didn't know why. Okay. I mean, if he wasn't going to sign in Buffalo, I wonder how he felt about Winnipeg.

Yeah. That's interesting. Well, I mean, I guess then that kind of gives you a sense of maybe this is a case of Carolina going to him saying, look, man, we tried. Got pretty far along with a few teams. Those aren't the teams you want. Makes sense. That's your right. But what are we going to do?

Yep. Good player. What you do is you kick the can down the road for two more years. Now, does he have trade protection as part of that? I can't imagine that he does, but let me double check that. I guess I don't know right now then. I guess I didn't, I didn't see that. I don't know if he's old enough.

I don't think he's, because you can't get that until you are, you hit UFA status. Seems like he has no protection of any kind either year. Okay. This is, I'm looking, I'm looking at the, the Hurricanes Puckpedia page now.

Mm-hmm. This is a fun mix of guys who have some amount of protection. Aho has a no move Jordan Stahl has a no move Remember he's signed for three more years this summer? Crazy William Carrier has a no move And so does Jalen Chatfield

Jacob Slavin's no move kicks in next summer Now but Does it specify because I'm seeing this Start to happen again This is something that bugs me Is references to no move but then that no move does not cover all trades. Like I've seen references to like it's a no move plus a 10 team no trade clause.

So in other words, the no move is you can't be put on waivers. But it's like, no, like when I hear no move, I think that means across the board trade coverage, you know, everything. I don't know. I guess I don't know. Like I said, I'm looking at Puckpedia. They have a three-tier. Not at H-L GMs. They have a three-tiered system for, there's like a guy next to a lock, like a little silhouette of a man next to a lock, and that means no move.

There's like a locked lock and that's full no trade. And then there's an open lock, which is a list of some kind. So like Svechnikov 10 team approved, Martinuk, 10 teams he can veto. Cuckton, the Mie, 10 teams, 10 team no trade, so that's 10 teams he can veto. Brent Burns, modified no trade clause not specified, slave and 15 team approved, et cetera, et cetera, you know, go down the list. But there's some fun guys on that list, getting protection. It's a good list. Yeah.

So, yeah, I'm, like you say, I'm kind of waiting. to see what materializes here. This is, you know, it's better for probably both parties than a one-year deal. And, like, good for the player, obviously, because that just guarantees him an extra six and a half million bucks. And good for the team, because then they can potentially trade him later and go, and you get the whole extra year on this, you know, you're getting this guy for one and a half seasons at a minimum.

Pretty good. Could be. Yep. Yep. And then finally, speaking of the Buffalo Sabres, Uco Pekelouchenin, five years, 4.75 million A.AV. Now that's interesting. Yeah.

So if people saw it, we did a whole project last week where we looked at goal tanning across the league. And I was surprised at how highly the Sabres graded out, Mainly because my buddy, Jesse Granger, who is, I mean, this guy knows goaltending, is quite high on the Sabres. And on Lukinen and especially. Yeah, Luchan seems like he's going to be good and has seemed that way for a few. A lot of the numbers last year were very good. You know, a lot of, Sabres were a tough team to score on last year.

Surprisingly, given that they are the Sabres. The Sabres. So I don't know. Three weeks ago I would have seen this and I would have got, I don't know about that for Buffalo. But having seen, you know, Jesse's takes on it, I'm kind of like, all right, maybe this is, maybe they got their guy.

And they're two guys because. Well, that's why it's interesting. Because Devin Levi was 927 in the HL last season at, what is he, 22 years old. So I don't. was also a guy that there was also a guy that there was some hope would establish himself in the NHL last year and just wasn't ready. Right.

And that's fine. But why, so why give UPL five years? That's the question for me. You see what I'm saying? Like, five years is a lot. I think if you're Kevin Adams, first of all, like a lot of GMs, you don't have five years of job security. So you're not as concerned about down the line.

But you're saying, all right, we got our guys. for now. This means that we can bring Levi along at the right pace for him. Remembering that he's as young as he is. And maybe it is a couple more years before he's ready to

even be a 50-50 guy. And then, you know, if three years from now, I've got two great goalies, I'll deal with that. Yeah. I just I don't know. Didn't we say, didn't we, you're right. Like, the obvious

comparison to make here is Linus Olmark. Yeah. You know, in Boston, and they just traded him for, quite frankly, next to nothing, given his quality. Some would say less than nothing, given they had to take as part of that deal. They had to take back a horrible contract. But yeah, Levi fourth in the AHL and saved percentage last season. and two of the guys ahead of him played eight fewer games than him.

Now, he only played 26, so, like, you know, how do you feel about that number? But fourth in the HL and save percentage, he's good, and he's 22. I don't know. It just seems like it's putting up a bit of a roadblock, but I like the player, Lukinen. I like Lukin and I like D.

And if he's, you know, if he's decent, You'll be able to move that guy. You know, like, because he's young, too. That's the thing. Like, what is he? Like, he's mid-20s. Yeah, let me look that up really quickly, but I think he's, yeah, I think he's like 25, 26. Yeah.

That's, uh, 25 indeed. He'll be 26 in March. So, yeah, I get it, but also it's like, oh, I thought Levi was your guy. Oh, okay, maybe he's not. Yeah. Um, one, one last bit of player news this week that's like really. Notable, I guess, is Patrick Linae has been cleared to return from the player assistance program. However, he is still recovering from shoulder surgery.

So that's a whole thing. And teams are now free to get in touch with him and try to work out of trade. That's the reportage from this week on Patrick Lining. And, you know, I kind of, I've seen that and I've seen a lot of people sort of being like, all right, let's fire it up. Here we go. Lead goal score in his prime. There's a part of me that's like, I'm going to believe it when I see it. as far as him being moved.

At the price tag he's at, at, you know, given the season he had last year, even putting aside the player assistant stuff, you know, the injuries, the lack of production, I don't think there's going to be a big line for this guy. It's funny. I think when you Google, you know, when you Google teams right now, just like type in like Anaheim Ducks or whatever, like three quarters of the teams in the league, we could get Patrick Gleiner here. we wouldn't have to give up very much.

You know, he's got that ceiling that you're so excited about, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, I think you're right. Two years left and the money is a real problem. Yeah. And in a sense, it's almost like the two years is the worst possible scenario because you can't, you don't have them locked in for any amount of time. So if you get them on a gamble and he clicks and you get the old guy back, You're a year away from having to throw a ton of money at them. You're going to have to do that based on one year.

You know, who knows what your confidence is going to be. But it's not like you can get them now if you had one year left and immediately put together an extension that mitigates a little bit of that risk. You're 8.7 million that you assumed the blue jackets would have to retain. But even then, like, how many teams have got six or seven or eight million in tap space just sitting there on a question mark. Right. Among contenders, not a lot.

Among teams like an Anaheim, yeah. But then Columbus is a team like that too. And obviously, you know, they probably want to do the change of scenery on both sides. But I'm going to give the guy away. I don't know. Like I said, believe it when I see it. I don't see there being a big bidding war here. Yeah.

I'm with you. It's just, there's so much you want from a player like, from Patrick Lainey, right? The effortlessness with which he scored the goals when he was scoring all those goals, you're just like, man, that's a rare fucking talent. And unfortunately, it's just never fully come together. And there may be a million different reasons for that, including, like, where he played and whose coaches were and how they were using him and blah, blah, blah, blah, you know.

I can see a number of teams talking themselves into, we can fix this. But at the same time, what is that net the Columbus Blue Jackets in terms of the return? I'm going to guess next to nothing. I think so. And if that's the case, then why bother? year Columbus. Because he wants out. Well, I mean, he could want out, but we've got you under contract.

And if we're getting offered a fourth round pick and we got to retain, sorry, man. Like come back, light it up for two months and create a market for yourself. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I don't know. That doesn't always work out. No. I don't know what the answer is, but whatever.

I guess we'll see. Why don't we take a break and we'll come back and we'll talk about some other stuff. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Mint Mobile. And folks, we all know about FOMO. The fear of missing out, they call it. You know what I'm talking about? This is why we watch binge-worthy shows. This is why we listen to Hot New Albums, see the big movies at the box office.

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plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active. All right, we're back. And I have here, for those who listened to the bonus episode that we did last week on the Patreon, you heard us run down the top 100 athletes list of the 21st century from ESPN. And I think it featured three hockey players, four maybe? Three. Three. Yeah, Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid.

So they were like, oh, you didn't feel like there was enough representation? Well, here's a list of the top 25 hockey players of the 21st century. Did you look at this list at all show? I did. Yeah, I had not seen it until you sent it to me. The craziest thing is I looked at some of the feedback and everyone agrees. Yeah, everybody said, no problem here. Yep.

Yep, perfect. So number one, Sydney Crosby, number two, Alex Ovechkin, number three, Connor McDavid. Those were the guys on the main list in that order. Checks out. Makes sense to me. I said on the episode last week, I feel like you can move McDavid up on that list. Yep, you made that case. I think he might be number one, honestly, if we're being honest with ourselves.

But I get it. No, that's fine. Coney Crosby won a lot. Number four, Patrick Cain. Hmm, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. It's tough.

And we'll get to this with the next guy, but. The tough thing is when you get into guys who cross over that. Yeah, played in the 90s. So it's like, and then it's because the guy, the next guy, I was like, oh, well, that guy's better than Kane. And then I was like, yeah, but he played in the 90s. And then I was like, yeah, yeah. He retired in like 2014. His name is Nicholas Liddstrom.

And what surprised me that I will be honest, I didn't realize or I thought I didn't, until I saw it, on their list because they say, oh, he's a seven-time Norris winner. And I was like, well, yeah, but you're only doing the 2000s. He won all seven Norrises. I was going to say, that doesn't surprise me at all, yeah. He was not, even though he was in the NHL and playing, you know, big minutes early in the 90s. So, yeah, I mean, I think I would take seven Norris trophies over what Patrick Kane accomplished, but you do get Kane's entire body of work.

whereas you don't with. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I would, he's not the only guy I would have higher than Kane. We'll get to those guys in a second. Nathan McKinnon is six. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, sure.

Checks out. I might have him higher than Patrick Kane, but he didn't win as many Stanley Cups. You know? Mm-hmm. Number seven is a guy I would have above Patrick Kane as well. Martin Brodor. Yeah.

You ever heard of this guy? I have. So again, this is a guy who you're getting a lot of his career in the 90s. Yes, of course. Including two cups. Two cups. Now, all the Vezina's come in the 2000s. That's right. But you do lose, for the sake, let's just count 99, 2000 as the 90s. That's 244 wins.

Yeah. Now, you still got 400. 150 wins, which is a hell of a lot. But that's right. That's always the big thing for Broder is this dude won an absolute psychotic amount of games. And you kind of lose that if you- Career leader and shutouts too. Yep.

By a pretty wide margin, if I'm remembering right, I don't have that list for me. Yeah, 125 and the record was, Sawchuck was like 102, I want to say. And for a long time, that was the unbreakable record. And then the NHL was like, well, what if every game? was a shutout. Martin Bruder fucking obliterated that number. Yeah. Another guy I'd have above Patrick Kane, Henrik Lunkwist at number eight.

You can make a really strong case that he's a top five goalie of all time. History of the League. Yep. I think Lunkwist versus only 2000s Broder is an interesting. It certainly is. And I guess the fact that there's seven and eight here, I mean, it's pretty almost. interchangeable. So. Well, here's the difference, Henrik Lundquist, famously, no Stanley Cups.

I think that's probably it, right? And this is the other thing I want to say, broadly speaking. I think this is an interesting question here. How do these rankings change if the NHL goes to the Olympics the last two cycles? Because, you know, like I think a thing that prevents McDavid from eking and to that top three there is, or the top two, I should say, is he has never had the chance to play for the Canadian national team. Yep.

At the best on best tournament. So that's something. Number nine of Gennie Malkin. Yep, sure. Great. Again, is he a guy that you would consider putting ahead of cane? Same number of cups now? Yeah, same number of cups, same number of MVPs, same number of scoring leaders, I think.

So, yeah, you know, I guess I hadn't really thought. I mean, Florida 9 feels like a big gap. I guess I hadn't really thought about it. But yeah, I definitely see that argument. Absolutely. You know, I think playing with Sidney Crosby kind of makes you go, well, I mean, he plays with Sidney Crosby. But I mean, Malkin didn't like play with Crosby that much. Yeah, I understand.

You know, Kane played with that. We all said Jonathan Taze is the best player in the world for. Well, we all is an interesting way to praise that. every one of us. But, you know, Malgan is missing is that NHL top 100. They do list that on every player's key accomplishments

who qualify. I don't see it for Malkin. That's weird. It's a crazy coincidence. Yeah. Number 10, Patrice Bergeron. Bergeron and Chera 10 and 11. That's, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like maybe we've maybe overcorrected a bit on Bergeron over the years, but I don't, I'm not going to, I'm not going to. I'm not going to argue too much on that. No, he fucking rocks first battle hall of fame or deservedly so, all that stuff. Yeah, Chara, I might have him fucking higher, man.

I can't believe he only won one Norris. That's crazy to me. Highest defensemen on the list apart from Lidstrom. Yeah. And like a good ways down from Lidstrom. Yeah. Again, just wild to me that you're right, only the one Norris, but a seven-time all-star. Not, yeah, well, he did, yeah, he lost a few years.

But it wasn't good back then. That's the crazy thing. When he got traded to Ottawa, that was in the, the Yashun trade, where it was the Jason Spets a pick that they were getting. No, it was like 2001, I want to say. It was that late? Wow. Yeah. Okay.

He had been in the league. Like, he was like 24. He'd been in the league a few years. And he was like a big guy, but it was like, yeah, like it was like trading for like slightly younger Halgill. Nobody was like this guy. I mean, you might have said if he ever put it all together at his size, oh, he'd be a monster. But nobody thought this guy was going to be what he became. And even for the first couple years in Ottawa, he kind of, well, I guess he, he, he stepped higher into the lineup in.

Ottawa. But yeah, seven time postseason All-Star, including three times as a first teamer and then played absolutely forever. Yeah, he rocks. Stephen Stamco's next at 12. And it's an interesting run

of centers here. Stamco's 12, dry-sidal 13, Thornton 14, Matthews 15. Yeah. I guess, my only take is, and obviously there you've got kind of the extremes of do you want a guy who's been in like a guy like Matthews who's been in the league for seven years? Or do you want

Thornton where you get almost his entire 24 year career or somewhere in the middle? I don't, I'm not sure that Stamcoast would be my guy to be number one on that list. No, I don't think. I almost feel like you could convince me each of the other three guys. Certainly Drysidal, certainly Thornton, maybe Matthews, ahead of Stamco's. You know what those guys' problem is? They didn't go to like five conference finals when two Stanley Cups go to a third cup final. Fourth cup final?

Did they go to four with that group? Or was it just the three in a row? They had the three in a row and they lost to Chicago in 2015. That's right. So, yeah, four. That's why Stamcoast is 12 on this list. Yeah. That's it.

I mean. And also, you know, all the other stuff, 555 career goals, two rockets. I love on the key accomplishment list, 2022 Mark Messier Award. That is key. You got that, Leon? Keep fucking walking, brother.

We don't need to hear from your ass. He also scored 60 that one time. Remember that? That was crazy. And that was, you know, not, you know, that was, 60 is always crazy, but. 60, like when he did it. That's, yeah, that's what I mean.

That was something else. Non-Ovechkin division, I guess. Yeah. Ovechkin scored 65 goals one time. Remember that? I do. Damn. Joe Thornton way too low on this list.

He's one of the greatest hockey players in the history of the game. I mean, what are we talking about here? Eric Carlson is a weird one. Eric Carlson's next. Yeah. 16. Hard to argue. Three-time Norris winner, yeah.

If anything, he should not. maybe, arguably, on the merits, be above Zadano Chara. Yeah. And yet, and I know, I know this is, I know this is the sort of appeal to whatever that everybody hates. Find me one hockey person who would take prime Eric Carlson over prime Zadano Chara. Oh, for sure. They don't exist. I'm not talking 200 hockey men.

I'm not talking, like I'm saying anybody. There's not. Just a player. Yeah. Yeah. You won't find anybody. You won't find anyone who was like, all right, well, I got to go down in Charra's wing all night tonight, but at least it's not Eric Carlson. No, for sure.

But again, three-time Norris winner. That's crazy. That nobody talks about this. You know? He fucking rocks, man. Yep. Again, another guy where you can make a very credible case that this is like a top five defenseman in the history of the sport. Yep.

Everybody talks about him like, he's a bum. It drives me crazy. I don't get it. Next up, Nikita Kutrov. Sure. Four-time All-Star, two-time Art Ross, one MVP, two cups for, or three-cup finals. I don't know that he was on the team in 2050. Yeah.

And just coming off like one of the most casually, insanely productive seasons. Oh, yeah. I just got to 100 assists. What's the big deal? Yeah. No big deal. Ho-hum. I have feeling you're going to have thoughts on the next guy.

Mark Andre Fleury. I'm just going to read his key accomplishments. You tell me if there are any little flags that pop up here. 2021 Jennings. Okay. That's a key accomplishment. 2021 Vesna. Okay.

Well, yeah, that definitely is. Sure. Three times Stanley Cup champion. Good question. Somebody should do a spreadsheet of how much, how fake each Fesson is. Three times Stanley Cup champion. Any red flags there for you, Sean? I mean, he was a champion.

His name's on those teams. You know? So is the assistant backup equipment manager. Right. Okay, sure. Fourth in games played, attendance record. Second all-time in wins. Yeah.

Well, he's got all those wins. He does have the wins. Let's put a pin in that because. Now let's check a playoff wins. Yeah. Let's put a pin in that because I think the goal tending gets interesting the rest of the way. Yeah, number 19, Andre Vasselowski. How does that crap you, folks?

Put Vasselowski over Flurry, bud. Yeah, that's not even a fucking question to be. You know what? Yeah, you're right. He was a three-time Stanley Cup champion. if you want to say him being a backup for two of them adds up to one of Vasilevsky's two, I'm the only goalie on this team, Stanley Cups? Okay, I'll give you that one.

Another, I lost a third, but took them to the final. And a lot of people forget this, 2015 didn't take him to the final. That was a Ben Bishop team. But then Bishop got hurt. And Vaselowski. had to come in and played well in the final. So, yeah, Vasilevsky over Flurry, of course. Not even a question.

Number 20, I'm furious about, so I can only imagine you. Jerome McGinla, number 20. Get the hell. What are we fucking doing here, folks? Remember when I said that, you know, I don't know if I'd have Stamcoast at the list of those four forwards that we were sort of talking about? Aginla ahead of all four of those guys. Yeah.

Ahead of Stamcoast, absolutely. ahead of Thornton, and I love Joe Thornton. And Matthews and Drysidal will potentially pass a Gindla someday. But what are we doing? What are we doing? And yes, you lose a few years of Ginnla in the 90s. So he's not a 650 goal guy. He's a 600 goal guy.

What are we doing? Here's what's funny about this. Stephen Stamcoast. And again, this boils down to, He didn't win any Stanley Cups, right? But Stephen Stamco's, fucking awesome player. One of his key accomplishments, 555 career goals is the third most among active players, is what it says here.

Let's just go with since the 2000s. How many goals did Joe Thornton score? Or, sorry, Jerome McGinnless score since the 2000s. Oh, 534. And that's not including the 99-2000 season. If you want to say the 99-2000 season, 563.

And that's when he was like old and stuff. You know what I'm saying? A lot of that is when he's old. Yeah, like Jerome again is a better player than Stephen Stamcoast. I don't think Stephen Stamcoast would argue that. And like, look, I get, well, he didn't win a Stanley Cup.

Okay. Yeah. But we're doing one or two things. We're either just saying, hey, that's a column with a number in it, and I don't like it when the number's around. I need it to be something that's not a zero. Or you're saying that is a measure of how much, you know, how influential a guy was. Could he lead a team to wins?

Could he push in the playoffs, all that stuff? Go look, just for fun. Go look at the 2003-2004, Calgary Flames. look at the rest of that team minus Aginla. You want to do the 0102 Calgary Flames top line? Yeah. You want to do their top line? That was the one that he won the MVP,

and I don't care what you tell me about Jose Tiodore. He was the MVP that year. No, he didn't win the MVP. Oh, he was the MVP that year. He was the MVP. He didn't win it, though. So I'm just going to read you here. This is the Calgary Flames top line in the season

where Jerome Gindler scored 52 goals and 96 points. On the left wing, of course, you have the great Dean McCamond. You're probably sitting at home saying who? Great question. Played with Jerome McGinley, I think is the claim to fame here. In the middle, you have Craig Conroy. Pretty good player for a while there, you know?

But, like, you know, also, if he's your number one center, you're going to want to have a Jerome McGinla on your right wing to get you where you need to go. Like, Jerome McGinley did it all himself. in Calgary for a lot of those seasons. I don't know how else to put it to. 2004, other than a Ginnla, they had Martin Shalinaw,

went on a hot street. Craig Conroy scored six goals. And you know who is tied for next? Chris Simon. Is that good when Chris Simon's like your fourth? Yeah. Biggest offensive threat? It's a problem for sure.

And like, I mean, that was, like, Jerome McGillow put that 2004, for Flames team, along with Mika Kipersoff, to be fair. But the skaters... Mika Kippersoff. The skaters into a relapse sack and slung it over his shoulder and dragged it. It didn't even drag them kicking and screaming and murmuring and occasionally wiggling around a little bit because that was all they were capable of all the way to the

Stanley Cup final one game away. And in fact, they did win the Stanley Cup that year. But again, it didn't count. that's fine. I'm furious. It's a ridiculous. It's insulting. Insulting.

Yeah. Oh, and did he win? I mean, but he's not a winner. Did he win any gold medals? Can you refresh my memory? Was he an absolutely crucial part of any massively his story? And again, that's kind of a late career when he's doing that too. Well, even in 2002, right?

Yeah, that's true. He was on that team in 2004. 2002, he was the guy that they were like put him with Mario. Got be pretty good for that. Holy smokes. Oh, mad. I'm fired up now. Number 21, Ante Copatar.

Number 22, Pavlatsuk. I would flip these guys. Yeah, you probably could. Number 23, Duncan Keith, I think unequivocally the fourth best defenseman of the... Oh, wait, and oh, here's Victor Hedman. Yeah. He's 24. And again, if you want to say Duncan Keith, you know, we think less of him,

because he kind of dropped off a cliff and we just haven't gotten there with headman. I agree with that. That's probably true. But I think high to their powers, headman probably a more dominant defenseman. And then the last guy. And I think they both rocked to be clear. Yes.

Last guy on the list, Jonathan Quick. Huh? Yeah. What? Career leader in wins and shutouts. Okay, that's pretty impressive. Wow. When you're the, oh wait, hold on, the sentence keeps going.

Among U.S. born gold town. Who gives a shit? You're doing the top 25 of all of the century. Oh, you know, he was fourth among Finnish wingers. Get out of here. All right. So, okay, a couple things. Okay.

First of all, I cannot describe how much it bothers me that in putting together this list, they use the most recent photo of each guy. So you've got Jonathan Quake and Arranger's, Duncan Keith and an Oilers jersey. Let's talk about the, I will give them credit, they did not put Jerome McGilley in like a King's Jersey or something. That would have absolutely. The avalanche.

But where are we at as far as guys who did not make it? Because I will give them credit. They ditch right out on the article after they finished Jonathan Quick and there are. Okay, see you later. There's no honorable mentions. There's no like, but we got to talk about some guys who did not make this list. Well, real quick, I just. want to say regarding Jonathan Quick.

One thing we're not considering here is he did win two Jennings trophies. You don't love. The most prestigious award you can win in the NHL. He did. You also won a Conn Smythe. Pretty good. Only a top three Vesna guy twice. Yeah. Jonathan Quick. That's crazy.

I mean, he had two, his 2012 season was one of the best goaltending seasons of all time. Un fucking believable. But 930, 929 in 69 games. They have him on this list ahead of Roberto Luongo. Right.

Insane. Well, Roberto Luongo should have tried winning a cup. Probably should have. What about two? Did he win any gold medals? Refreshed my memory. I can't remember.

I'll get back to you on that one. I feel like maybe he did, but I'd have to check that. So Luongo's a big oversight. The other one that I was surprised wasn't on the list. Drew Dowdy.

Yeah, that's a really good point. Now, there was a time he was the best player in the world Remember that? Yeah, well, I mean, Jonathan Taves not being on the list again. Like, remember, it was only a few years ago that none of these guys, virtually none of these guys made the NHL's top 100 list. But Taves did. Which we all said at the time was ridiculous.

But speaks to how at the time it was like Jonathan Taves, slam-dunk, Hall of Fame, you know, no questions. And now he's not. Here's the thing, though. I'm looking at the list of centers on this list alone. I don't see where you can squeeze Taves in. Crosby, McDavid, MacKinnon, Malkin, Bergeron, Stamco, Streisidal, Thornton, Matthews. Hawks fans would point at Copa-Tar and say that's the spot that we want.

I'd rather have Copatar. Yeah, you could. Height of his powers and all that. I think you could say height of the powers, Jonathan Taves is the guy. But Copa-I get it. I'd rather have Cop-Tar. Yeah, which is fine. By the way, I was thinking about this morning.

We ever hear about what's going on with Jonathan Taves anymore? No, right? I don't think so. We haven't heard, we haven't had like an official retirement. Yeah, and this will be his second year coming up out of the league. So, crazy. I wonder how close they came to finding a way to sneak Chris Broger on the list. Yeah, probably a little too much.

His Norris heart season was 99, 2000. Right. So in theory, he did win a hard. in the 2000s, but... But, like, if you had one playoff run, all right, man. Playoffs are starting today.

You get to pick one player from... Like, you would not have to go very far down the list before you're like, I want Chris Pronger. Like, height of his powers, height of his 2000s powers. Give me, like... Absolutely. What, 2003 teams kicking and screaming to the cup finals?

Give me 2006 Oilers, Chris Pronger? Yep, I'll take that. Three cup finals, right? Yeah. Anaheim, including one cup. Oilers. Yeah, I shouldn't say he dragged that Anaheim team kicking. There was a guy named Scott Niedermeyer on that.

There was, but Scott Niedemeyer had been on that team the year before. Oh, sure. Pronger just showed up like, all right. What are we doing? Every new team he went to. Yeah. So, yeah, interesting list gets us talking. That's the point.

But I'd rather have, I'd rather have Pronger on this list than Jonathan quick. If there's one person we're shuffling in, it's got to be Pronger. Dude, I feel. like I would probably, you know, I'm not sure Jonathan Quigg would be my top 50. I would have to actually sit down and do it. Maybe I would, you know, realize that, you know, I'm shortchanging him a bit. He's 38th or whatever, yeah. Yep.

No Kerry Price, no Tuka Rask, no Pecker-Renay. I don't think any of those guys are slam dunks ahead of Jonathan Quick, but having him. Yeah, what's the difference between Quick and in those guys? Career leader in wins among U.S. born goalies, who cares, man? Yeah, who gives a shit? So put Ryan Miller on the list then. He's like three wins back.

Well, I mean, you probably didn't see what Quick did for like two weeks last season when everyone was like maybe he should be the starter. Remember that shit? Can I just point out that Jonathan Quick, they do list him as a two-time Stanley Cup champion? Yeah. Not counting his Golden Knights, Stanley Cup. That's true. Which maybe should be the Mark Andre Fleury.

Maybe we scroll back up that. Yeah, yeah, good fucking call. I mean, I know I'm bigger on Flurry than I think a lot of people are, but that's a miss. You can't. I'm with you, brother. I'm with you. Let me do this then now. Let me transition to the game that we're going to play to round out the episode length here.

And we're going to play a couple rounds of 20 questions. That's the game where it's a bunch of 20 questions, but about players who have played at least a thousand games in their NHL career. Yes. Let me pull up the list here. So, you know, it's all yes or no questions as the game goes.

And I will randomly of the, I believe it's 298 players who have played 1,000 games, 398, my mistake. Random number generator for that. And I will just pull a random guy here. Okay, let's see. Let me scroll up.

Let me scroll up. Is this a guy we have done before? Check just to make sure. Does not appear as though we have done this man. So, just ask me random yes or no questions about this guy, and we'll try to get there. Did he play in the 2000s? No. Did he play in the 1980s?

Yes. Is he a forward? He is. Is he a winger? Yes, he is. Is he Canadian? Yes, he is. That's five.

Did he play in the 90s? No. Did he score 500 goals? No. Did he win a major award? No. Wait, yes. I take that back, yes.

Oh, okay. Did he play for three or more teams? No. Oh, all right. Did he win a Stanley Cup? Let me scroll down here. No, no, he did not. And that's 10.

Okay. All right. So we got a Canadian winger from the 80s and earlier. Did not score 500 goals. Did win an award, but you had to think about it. So clearly not like an MVP or something like that. I'm going to go ahead and say, did not win a Stanley Cup? Hmm.

All right. Did he play for the Maple Leafs? No. Did he play for a Canadian team? No. I probably should ask that one first. Did he play for the New York Rangers? No.

Did he have a season of more than 200 penalty minutes? Let me check here. No. Do you play for an original 16? No, and that's 15. I am in trouble right now. I would say that you are. Yeah, this is a tough one.

Not original six, not Canadian. I mean, that, we have ruled out about half the league in the 80s there. And by not winning a cup, geez, okay. Didn't, doesn't make it into the 90s. So this is, I mean, got to be a guy who peaked more in the 70s. This is a tough one. And non-original six. So I'm going to kind of think out loud here because I...

Yep. Presumably not the Islanders because they won't cop. Could be a Sabre. Could be a 70s teams. I mean, it could be any of those crappy expansion teams. Not the Islanders, not the Canucks, not the blues. Could be the... Not the Flyers.

Could be 80s penguins. All right. Did he play for the Sabres? Yes. Didn't score 500 goals, though. So it's not somebody like Perrault. And you said did not, okay, did he play for only the Sabres? Yes.

Okay. Sure. Because Gilbert Pearl must have had 500 goals. You have three more, to be clear. Is it Jill Bear Pearl? No. Now I got to think, Wingers. Danny Guerr got treated.

There was a... He went to the wings. As I mentioned, this is a difficult one in my opinion. Did this guy go on to coach in the NHL? Yes. Is it Lindy Ruff? No, and that's it. The answer is Craig Ramsey.

Yikes. Okay. Craig Ramsey, for some reason, I always think of as a defenseman. And he absolutely wasn't. Nope. At no point. I think it's a Mike Ramsey thing that I have in my head. But, okay.

Yeah, that was. The one award he won, he won a Selky in his final NHL season. Okay. Not bad. Played a thousand 70 career games. All right. I got one for you here. Let me call the guy's page.

And I'm just going to do a quick double check that we did not. We have not used him before. I think we're all set. All right. Hit me. Did he play in the 2000s? Yes. Okay.

Is he primarily associated with an Eastern Conference team? I would say yes. Okay. Did he play for, no, let me, did he win any major awards? No. Okay. Did he ever win a Stanley Cup? Yes.

Okay. Um, did he, uh, is he Canadian? Yes. Is he a forward? Yes. How many questions is that? That is six. A forward, a Canadian.

Didn't win any major awards. Did win a Stanley Cup played in the 2000s. I'm going to go out on a limb here. I don't even know if this guy played a thousand career games. Dude, if you hit this, if you hit this now, I'm going to. Come to your house and I'm going to punch you in the stomach. Please don't do that. I wonder if it's Vinnie La Cavillier.

It is not. Okay. I don't know why. That just like flashed into my mind immediately. Well, he won a cup though, right? Oh, yeah. And we said this guy. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what? I think you checked all the. So far so good. He did win a rocket Richard, but kind of a fake one. Yeah. Yep, he did win a rocket. So that wouldn't have counted.

The thing I was thinking of was Brad Richards won a Con Smyth And that would have been the little trick there Primarily in Eastern Conference team Canadian We established these a forward Is this still an active player? No Okay

Forward Canadian It's won a cup Um Would you use say he is primarily a metro division player teams currently in the metro the yes currently

in the team I associate them with most is currently a metro team okay in fact and I'm being kind here arguably the two teams I would associate them with most are in the metro interesting interesting

I'm a cup no major awards a thousand career games No longer active. Canadian This next question will be your 10th. Okay. Is he a center? No.

Okay, so he's a winger. Hmm. Not active. It did play in the 2000s. It's maybe not as easy as I thought to think of Canadian wingers. It's pretty, This game's a tough one. It is.

Not active. Is he currently or likely to be in the hockey hall of fame? No. The two teams he played for, that's fucking me up. The two teams he played for. Two teams I most associate him with. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But certainly the one team you would assume.

The one team, yeah. The one team, yeah. As a Metro team. So I just think, yeah, your mileage may vary on whether I was, I was also thinking Claude Jureau, but your mileage may vary on whether he's a senator or winger, I guess. May also vary on how many teams he played for. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's the two that is what I'm saying. Obviously, he played for the Flores.

And Claudeau is, of course, still active. Oh, right, of course. Barely. I mean, he plays for the senators. Sure. Man, this is. tricky. Okay, I guess I'll just start narrowing it down by team. Is he, is one of the two teams you mentioned earlier a ranger? No. Okay. Islander? Uh, no. Fuck. Okay. I guess I'll say penguin here then and then abandon this line of questioning. Yes, he did play for the penguins. Did play for the penguins. Um, hmm. Next question is number 15. Oh, fuck me. Did he score 500 career goals?

No. I'm going to assume not if he's not a Hall of Fame or so. He did not. And I'm going to, with five questions left, I'm going to just give you a free hint here. Okay. Did play in the 2000s. It ended his career relatively early in the 2000s. So you're booking it.

Oh, shit. Okay. You're, I don't want to mislead you into thinking this is like a cap era guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. primarily on the penguins. I would say the penguins are definitely team number two. Oh, okay.

On that list of two teams that I gave you. Okay. Yeah, you're giving me way too many hints here, but I appreciate it. That's okay, I'm lying about half of them. Henrik Sidene was the answer here. That's right. that's right um gosh no it's probably not

i almost said Kevin Stevens but he is American if I'm not much mistaken he is yeah this is tough oh um relatively early though not really a capier a player never played in the cap

and not a hall of fame or that's the other thing that I got to keep in mind here So I'm assuming then that the other team most associated with him is the Philadelphia Flyers. You assume correctly. Yeah. This is tricky, man. Every guy I'm thinking of is American, which is a problem for me. Flyers and the Penguins.

Not too many guys fit those bills. And I will say this guy is Canadian and did represent Canada best on best. competition. Really? I mean, he was... You're giving me way too many hints and I'm still fucking... Apparently not, because... No, I mean, I guess my problem is I'm stupid.

Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah, that guy can see that being an issue. Yeah, so that's where I run into problems for sure. Did this guy, like... Hmm. We established he won a Stanley Cup. Did he win...

Well, he must have won the Stanley Cup with the Penguins, huh? Well, I guess that's not strictly true, is it? Would have had to have had a 25-year career to get one. Well, I mean, you know, he could have played for a third team, you know. Jonathan Quick won a Stanley Cup with the Golden Knights. He is not a two-team player. Right. Just as a while you think, just to summarize.

Yeah. This is a basically what we know is, This is a Canadian winger. He did win a Stanley Cup. He is not a Hall of Fame player. Played, is primarily associated, in my mind at least, with the Flyers, as well as the Penguins as a secondary team. And finished his career in the early 2000s

and represented Canada internationally. So a star player, definitely a recognizable name, but not a Hall of Fame. fame caliber guy. Is this a guy who to be around the Craig Ramsey thing? Because I feel like this is a more famous player than that. But is this a guy who went into being either a coach or a GM? Yes.

Is it Rick Tocke. You got it. Boy, look at this. Nicely done. I was really around it with, I was thinking Mark Recky, but then I was like, oh, right, they put that guy in the Hall of Fame. They did. So that kind of fucked me up.

And of course, he played for the Flyers and the Penguins, right? Yeah, I'm not making that. Rekhi. Yeah, in fact, Reky and Tockeet, I think were traded for each other at least once. Yeah. Tocket ended up with 440 goals was a classic power forward. Right. In addition, do you remember what other teams he played for?

Probably not. But he played for... Tocket played for Phoenix for sure. It did, yep. He played more games with Phoenix than Pittsburgh, but he won the Cup with Pittsburgh. So, I mean, that's... I don't think I could tell you any beyond that. Played for the Kings and then Boston and Washington.

He was on that, I think, that Washington team that went to the final. But, yeah, scored 440 goals, 950 points. So, you know, Hall of a very good player and now working his way as a coach. All right. Okay, this is it. This is okay, all right. Let's do one more and then... Yep, I agree.

Get a dash. Yep, okay. Go ahead. I got one. Okay. Did he play in the 2000s? Yes. Did he play in the 2010s?

Yes. Forward? Yes. Center. Yes. Canadian. Yes. Any major awards?

Yes. Did he win a Stanley Cup? Yes. Did he play in the 2020s? No. Did he play for three teams or more? Yes. One more.

I like to flounder around until I've got my 10. For sure. Was he ever a first or second team? Team All-Star? Let me look. Yes. Wow. Okay.

So for a center, that is pretty impressive. Played for three teams, but won a – how many centers? Won a cup in the cap era, but played for – we're a first or second team All-Star. Wow. Hmm. He's Canadian. Is he in the Hall of Fame? No.

Did he win his Stanley Cup in the 2010s? No. Interesting. I got to just throw it out there because we mentioned his name. Is it Vinnie La Cabe? It is. Wow. You picked him randomly?

Isn't that so funny? Oh, wow. That's great. The number 109 came up and he is 109th in a... That is fantastic. Yeah. I'm glad you fed him to me earlier. I might know he might not have popped into my head, but that is, wow.

I'm sorry, not 109, 127. 119 was I had just clicked it after so that it would if we did more than this one. But yeah, Vinny La Caleigh. Isn't that so funny? Yeah, that is. Damn, it's Chekhov's Vinny got introduced. That's right. Hit them at the end.

Why don't you hit him with the plugs? Let's get the hell out of here. Find me at the athletic, including, if you missed it last week, had that series with Jesse and Scott on goal-tending outlooks. We have a piece up today where Jesse and I kind of go through what we learned, what we think we got right, what rankings maybe we didn't agree with. And then, coming later this week, remember some geese. And you will have to tune in to find out whether I won the battle over the headline or not.

But it's going to be there. And then for me, ePrinxide.com. Use the code I love EP when you sign up. You get three months tacked on to the end of your annual subscription only. And, yeah, I'm not writing a ton over there these days, but there's a lot of other prospect stuff going on over there. So, you know, if your team drafted a guy, there's a pretty good chance we got something over there for you.

I don't know. Whatever. It's not my purview, I guess. But I will, with August right around the corner, I will be starting to ramp up at least a little bit of college hockey stuff, I think. I don't know when all that is going to be published, but, you know, I got to start working on preview stuff, and then probably that'll go in, like, September. But, yeah, anyway.

And then Patreon.com slash Puck Soup, get all the bonus episodes. We are off the main show, this show that you're listening to on your regular podcast feed, for the next two weeks for, like, summer vacation stuff. So we will have Patreon shows only for the next two weeks. and then we'll be back with a regular show in later August. So you want to hear our shit? That's the only way to hear it for the next couple of weeks. And then we also have a bunch of other bonus stuff that we will be churning out during that time as well.

So stay tuned for all that. Thanks for listening. Have a good week. Have a good summer. Whatever you want to do. Talk to you later. Bye bye. Bye-bye.