Puck Soup - The All Lives Matter League

Episode Date: August 27, 2020

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wischinski, ESPN, the Worldwide Leader in Sports, whether they happen or not. Okay. I'm Ryan Lambert from the Logan Couture Defense Fund. Sean Maganoo from the Athletic

In your end Puck Soup Reached out to the Sharks yesterday morning Still haven't heard back as to whether there was any police report filed For Logan Guterre being Allegedly assaulted for espousing his admiration of Donald Trump Although he doesn't like Trump He said later He would just vote for Republicans if he could

But he can't so he doesn't And he mentioned Trump's name And that's what caused this Steve Rogers of Canada to punch him. But then later he said that he doesn't support Trump. And his mistake was talking openly about his politics. I wonder how many other NHL players are wondering if they made a mistake talking openly about anything. Now that their words are being held up and questions are being asked why they didn't follow through on them. Because that's the big story from last night that we need to talk about on the show today,

which is that as the NBA postponed its slate of games after the Orlando Magic and the Locky Bucks opted not to play in protest of the police shooting of Jacob Blake in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and obviously racial violence and obviously police brutality everywhere. Major League Baseball, some of their games also postponed for the same reason. WMBA, games postponed, major league soccer, games postponed, tennis players are opting out of tournaments, NFL teams not practicing, but the National Hockey League can always count on them. They held a moment of reflection once and played on. Very exciting times to be a hockey fan. Very, very cool and normal thing to see. Well, I mean, it's very normal.

Yep. Right? Like, that's, I mean, the second people were like, oh, what's the NHL going to do? I mean, everybody knew what the answer was, which was as little as possible. Mm. And actually, even more than, less than that, because the original plan was to do their, you know, minute-long moment of reflection where we get to put up the big end racism graphic again. We haven't seen that in a few weeks. And then, you know, there's the talk about the racism and the whole thing and the thoughts and prayers to Jacob Blake's family and the whole thing.

Well, they wished them well, so. Wished them well, yeah. And they were supposed to do it twice. They didn't even do it in the second game. And I asked Jason Dickinson and Tyler Sagan last night, you know, two guys who have made a demonstration about police brutality during these playoffs and during the Ron Robin when they were kneeling for the national anthems. I asked them, did you notice that they didn't do the moment of reflection before your game? And did you know they did one before the Bruins game. And the looks on their faces was like I asked,

did you know you could wear your skates on your hands? Like, they had absolutely no fucking idea what the NHL had even done that night and what they didn't do before their game. Yeah. So, look, real brief on this. Again, the caveat being that these are three white guys talking about, racial issues here. I remember when the first time

when the rest of sports tried to make a statement and everybody looked to the NHL and said, hey, you're going to hop in here and support black athletes in the NBA and the NFL? And the Pittsburgh Penguins replied, no, actually, we're going to the White House. So that was a few years ago, right? And so at the time, we were like, well, that's, I mean, that's just what hockey does, right?

That's the thing that we expect them to do. And then two months ago, over 100 players, all 32 teams, including the Rangers, the National Hockey League, the NHLPA, all put out statements explicitly expressing their support. for the black community, for black athletes, for their own teammates, to stand up against racism, to stand up against racial injustice, in some cases to stand up against police brutality, in many cases to actually hashtag their messages, Black Lives Matter. And it's at that point when the question was asked, is this performative, or is this a sea change moment for the National Hockey League?

and then the first chance that these guys get to do something beyond messing around with the anthem, which we know is something hockey players aren't going to do, the first chance they get, the first test they're given, and they fucking fail it, like just spectacularly fail it, like taking the quiz and wiping their ass with it, fail it. And that's the problem with last night from me. Like, it was follow-through. It was a chance for follow-through. It was a chance to show that, okay, it is going to be different this time.

And nobody on the Dallas Stars or the Colorado Avalanche, despite having guys that went to BLM protests, despite having members of the teams that are on the Hockey Diversity Alliance, went to their coaches and said, I think we should have a conversation about playing tonight. Not a single person did. It's fucking, it's, it's, it's, it's, mind-boggling that we're still in this fucking point for the NHL.

It's embarrassing. Sean, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I'll start by just saying they shouldn't have played. Like, that's the starting point for me. It's, this is, it felt like a mistake at the time. It feels like a mistake today. It's going to feel even more like that in the days and weeks and months to come. and years from now, when we look back on this moment,

I think everyone involved is going to say, we wish we didn't play. That said, and I tweeted this last night, I don't think it was an easy situation. I don't think it was an easy decision, and I give the league, and to some extent the players, some benefit of the doubt there.

You know, we're talking about last night, last night, last night, last night. But there was no, for this story, it wasn't like last night. This was an evolving story that changed significantly over the course of an evening. And, you know, I'm talking Eastern time here. At four or five o'clock, it had never even occurred to us that a professional sports team would strike and walk off from a playoff game. Like, until it happened in the NBA, that wasn't even something that most of us had even conceived of. The NHL already has one game in play when this happens, and they're a couple of hours away from their next game.

It was a lot to process and a lot to figure out, and I don't even want to imagine what the actual logistics would be of saying we're not going to play at this point. It could have been done, and it should have been done. and I want to make sure people understand where I'm coming from on that. But at the same time, I don't think it was as simple and as cut and dried as maybe some people are making it out to be. And like I say, I think that today and going forward there's going to be some regret. But I kind of get why it played out that way.

Now, that being said, look, I mean, virtually everything that we've heard from, from this league in the last 24 hours on this has has felt tone deaf and it's you know it's felt wrong it's it's clear that what happened in the NBA that was driven by the players and that kind of gave the NHL the ability to just wash their hands of it and say you know what we're going to support our players whatever they do but we're not going to actively yeah push in any direction and then you hear from the players and and it's clear that this just didn't register with them at all or at least that's the best story they had you know like there's these quotes from zedano charis saying oh we didn't even know what was happening until we got to the arena we didn't watch tv like really like not 20 something guys nobody looked at their phone nobody checked it's worse than it's worse than that they i know i know this is all part of the pregame process but to have all these guys that did absolutely nothing while the NBA is is going on strike saying well we were napping it's just such horrible look. But I mean, that's what they do before games. And look, I mean, at the end of the day,

here's here's the big point, I think, because I know, you know, I heard from a lot of different people last night, different views engaged with, with some of it, not most of it. But I'll just say this. When it comes to this issue and the way this is playing out right now, the one thing you can't say is just keep politics out of my sports. I understand that that's a lot of people do feel that way generally. I have some sympathy to that viewpoint, generally speaking. But with this, when the NBA says we're not playing tonight because we want to call attention to this issue, we want to put the focus on this issue, you as the NHL do not have an option for a non-political response at that point. You either don't play and support what the NBA players are doing,

or you do play and you're going to be viewed as contradicting them. You're going to be viewed as going against that. Now, that might not be what you want. That might not be your intended message. In fact, I'm certain that in the overwhelming amount of cases, that's not what they want the perception to be. But that's what you're doing. And it is. It's the same as you mentioned the White House thing a few years ago. When Donald Trump says, I'm not in inviting these NBA players to my White House, but I'll invite the penguins. I'm sorry, at this point, it is a political decision whether you go or not. There isn't a non-political, I'm neutral on this option. And in this issue, too, there just isn't one. And unfortunately

now, because of how last night played out, I don't know what today's going to bring. You know, we're recording this Thursday morning. By the time people hear this, the NBA might be back in action. The NBA might be canceled or it might be somewhere in between. We don't know. And we don't know what the NHL is going to look like, but anything the NHL does now is just going to feel like it's, like they're scrambling. It's going to feel like it's, it's, it's a make good from, from last, like last night was the moment. That was the moment.

And it's, and it's gone now. And it's not coming back around whatever they do today, whatever they do tomorrow for the rest of the week or the rest of the playoffs. They had their moment last night to show that they really meant the things they had been saying. and for whatever reasons, they failed to take advantage of that moment. Well, we know what the reason is. Right?

Like, you know, again, there was never going to be any kind of a response where people were going to be like, wow, good for the NHL. They did the right thing here. You know, and you could tell right away, too, because they said, I think it was they asked Anders Lee about, about, the NBA thing after the game ended and he's like yeah I mean it's interesting we're gonna keep an eye on it but I just got off the ice so I don't have an opinion and it's like you don't have a fucking opinion you had like two months to put an

opinion together we fucking talking about this was really rough last night because Sean you probably didn't see this because you were watching good coverage but on NBC they they dealt with this issue by having me and McHugh on at least three, potentially four different occasions, read a statement from the Milwaukee Bucks and then play the only existing footage of players discussing the boycotts, which was Andersley. And then, who is it, Cotterrier, I think it was, like, fumbling, fumbling through some soliloquy in which he talks about sex oranges. Yeah. So, and they didn't, they didn't actually have a conversation about it until Anson Carter came on. And then Anson Carter said he would have told his teammates to play, which then, of course, led to Akeem-Alu basically fucking calling out Anson Carter as an Uncle Tom this morning on Twitter, which is, you know, a completely different conversation on how the HDA should maybe not do that shit.

But yeah, the coverage on NBC was just fucking, like, as out of sync as everything else that was happening last night in the NHL. But go ahead, Ryan, sorry. Well, yeah, no, I mean, that's part of it, right? Is I was like, I don't even want to watch this fucking Bruins game. Like, I don't. It's going to piss me off was what I knew was going to happen. And they open with Doc Amrick sitting in his house. and he's like, oh, on a long, around behind,

it's the freaking Bruins and the lightning. What do you think? Edzo and Edzo's like, look, Doc, they got to get pucks in deep. Like, he had like a little whiteboard that basically said all that shit. And it's like, you can't even pay lip service to it right off the hop and then just not talk about it the rest of the night. Right? Like, you can't even fucking do that. Because, again, like, you know, I don't know what, like,

Eddie Olick and Doc Emmerich's politics are. But like, I know the class character of the NHL and the people who are prominent within it. And yeah, they were they were just never going to, never going to talk about it. I was just a shame because I'm waiting my whole life for it to tune in and hear tonight. Racism. Race brutality. And then cut to Doug to Eddie Olick. Chuck with his whiteboard and be like, you know what we got to do first, Doc, defund the police as he points to it.

Yeah. Well, I mean, no, again, like, you, I guess, you know, it's the thing of I'm not surprised, but I'm still disappointed, right? Because again, like, I'm not expecting Doc to be up there and be like, you know, in the autobiography of Malcolm X, it says, you know, like, of course not. Like, obviously. But like, some, some. Some attention to it, apart from Liam McHugh during the second intermission of one of the games going, you know, like just looking straight into camera while, by the way, Patrick Sharp and Keith Jones are nowhere to be fucking found. And just going, everything going on right now is very serious, and we take it seriously. And just ask...

Reading a message from the Milwaukee Bucks. And just ask these guys. And these guys are like, yeah, you know, I just not really sure. I haven't really had a chance to think about it. So, you know, we support them. Okay, great, man. Thanks. Fucking sucks.

All I'm saying is that, like, I'm just using these guys as examples. They've gone above and beyond what most of their peers have done. But, like, Patrice Burge-Ron in his statement said, it can't just be, you know, words on Instagram anymore. It needs to be actions. And Patrice, you know, put money to that. Like, he donated, I think it was like 25K at the time of putting that message out. And then Sagan, you know, went to the Black Lives Matter March in Dallas.

And, you know, he's been vocal about it. He took an eater in the anthems and stuff. But like, you know, this was that moment, right? You know, this was that moment where all of that verbiage about standing up for the community and standing up for what's right and all that other stuff, like, culminated in this moment. And to speak to Sean's point before, this whole thing reminds me of how hockey for whatever reason and hockey players for whatever reason really feel like they're on the outside of the other sports in their sphere. I've never quite understood it, how they don't see themselves as part of the great collective of sports in the United States. that when something like this happens and you see four other professional leagues doing this,

you don't feel automatically that it's contingent to join them. It's really strange. But it's always been the case. It is. And look, again, in fairness, most of Major League Baseball played last night. Yeah. Including some teams where individual players sat out and the team, the rest of the team, did not join them. So it's, you know, it's not the case that everybody else everywhere didn't play and the NHL was alone on this.

But the NHL certainly feels alone in the sense of having almost no impact whatsoever. It just doesn't seem to have registered with these guys at all. And like I said, I'm sure there's some regret today. and maybe not regret that they played, but regret with how it was handled. I'm sure there will be some better messaging out today. And we'll see. I'm not sure about that, but okay. Well, there'll be something.

There'll be a better, more effort put into it at the very least, whether it is actually better or not. Like, I really, you know, we can't have these discussions and these conversations and move forward if we, The line in the sand is perfection. We have to let people screw up to an extent. We have to let people realize they've screwed up, make amends, you know, move forward. What's frustrating is it felt like this sport had kind of had that moment a month ago. Yeah, exactly. And to see it, you know, yesterday it felt like there had actually been no progress whatsoever.

I mean, how many times did we say on this? show when we were talking about stuff a month ago that, yeah, maybe it wasn't enough, maybe it wasn't great, but it's so much more than we ever thought we'd get out of the NHL. And there were, you know, the fact that somebody was taking a need, the fact that people were talking about this stuff felt like progress. Not that they were at the finish line or anywhere close to it, but they were at least moving in that direction, which is what people have to do.

And today, it just kind of felt like, or yesterday, the first time that we checked back not only were they not any closer to the finish line, maybe they had gone back to where they were before. Yeah, when they're all a bunch of guys said, oh, I'm going to listen and learn about this. I'm going to listen and learn.

And the thing I kept thinking about yesterday was like, it was when your teacher in high school would go, by the way, we're going to have a pop quiz on a day this week. You don't know when it's going to happen, but like get your shit together and you're going to have one. And you're like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

And then you don't like do any extra. studying at all and you're just like, I got it. I was in the class. And then the pop quiz comes up and you get a fucking F. You know, like, you just, you just get like it. Because that's the point is this shit happens all the time. You know, how many, how many black men have been shot by the police since, you know, George Floyd, right? Like, the latest one is just the latest one, right?

Like, the latest victim is, and, and so, like, there was going to come a time during the bubble when there was another police shooting of a black man. And so for them to be, like, caught with their pants around their ankles on it is fucking insane. Yeah. It was like J.T. Broad tweeted, this is listening and learning about as well as his one-year-old was his statement. Dumbull was also great on Sports Night yesterday talking about how the NHL is constantly the last one to the party, right? And how heartbreaking it is. I think your point's taken, Sean, which is that the big disappointment here is that it did feel like we were starting to see the sport and the players change a little bit. that's not the case.

I think we could safely say. And so then we come back to the roots of the problem on why it still isn't the case. And Kater is, you know, the canary and the coal mine. I mean, like, these guys are uniformly conservative politically. Most of it is a fiscal conservatism. I think overall it's a moderately social league. but it's also a socially apathetic league of it is it is not my problem it does not affect me

why should I put my neck on the line for this issue it's that's been a constant problem in hockey and and what's so frustrating is these guys hockey culture like just the actual sport itself is so steeped in this idea that you have your teammates back it's not just yeah It's never just you.

It's your teammate. And it doesn't matter if that guy didn't do anything to you. He just knocked over your teammate. You drop the gloves and you get in there. But as soon as they step off the ice, for a lot of these guys, I'm not going to say all of them. But for a lot of these guys, it goes the exact opposite way. And as long as I'm okay, I'm not too worried about what's happening to anyone else. Well, you know, it's the thing MLK said about white moderates, right?

where it's like, oh, I think it, like, it's the, here's the, here's the fucking perfect thing. The NHL goes, and racism. Okay. So, like, good idea. You got it. What, like, what do you think is tied up in that that might be going on right now, gang? Like, you know, and the problem is, you know, we've said it before, but like, this is the All Lives Matter fucking league. It's the league that has done the blue, the blue, the blue line.

flag on the ice and a million different arenas and all these situations and you know it's you can you can again you can wish people well all you want right they they're wishing

they're wishing the victims well okay but like what about the people that are actually doing the things that you're wishing the victims well over like do you have an opinion on that and the answer they have no opinion on that well I mean they do and that it's you know, he shouldn't have been going into his car.

He had a knife in there. Well, no, no, no. But more to the point is, their opinion is, I like, I like the off-duty cop that helps us in the arena every night. Yeah, it's the Michael Jordan thing of, you know, Republicans buy shoes, too. And they don't want to, they don't want to piss off the white base, you know, and frankly, let's be honest, like, well-off white base that the sport has, right? And so, you know, again, like, look at, look at, look at where Logan Couture is coming from, right? Where he's like, oh, you know, I would vote Republican if I could, but I don't. And so that's why I don't get political.

And it's like, right, but like you have the, as a rich white guy from Canada, you like have the ability to say, I'm actually completely divorced from all that. So, so like, I'm an outsider looking in and this is just my opinion. and you're not allowed to get mad about just my opinion. So, yeah. But like Sean said, like your decision to not participate in the discourse is a political decision. Yes, of course it is. Yeah.

And again, the sports politics people are all just fucking ridiculous anyway. Like, the decision to support a team in trying to get arena funding is inherently political. playing the anthems are inherently political. Celebrating the military is inherently political. Sometimes it's overtly political when you invite Sarah Palin to drop a pocket your game. Like, calm the fuck on with this shut up and skate bullshit. Like, it's constantly politically inclined this sport. Now, let me just say this one thing here real quick.

So go listen to Matt Dumbas interview on Sportsnet. It was really, really good. And as per usual, I mean, puts Deona as squarely. on the white players in this league to step up and not have the players of color have to do the heavy lifting all the fucking time on these issues. But also listen to Jason Dickinson last

night. Dickinson's one of the dudes who kneeled with Reeves and Lanner and Sagan during the round robin. And he gets to one of the root problems that hockey has in trying to stagger forward. And it's the same problem it faces in labor negotiations. He said, I don't want to say

anybody's blind to it or ignorant. But we're a league of Canadians, a lot of Europeans. A lot of Europeans. And it's hard when something like this doesn't hit home. You look at the MLB, you look at NBA, they're primarily American players. It's easy to hit home for them. It's easy for them to take a stand against something. Sagan and I take a knee. We get backlash that we're not Americans and that we shouldn't be speaking on something like that. But we believe we're close enough as Canadians where we have a right to say it. In Canada, we see similar things. So it's difficult to appreciate as outsiders to America, but we try to give our two cents when we can. I think part of the problem

is that not only are you dealing with an overall political ideology that doesn't want to have anything to do with this, you are dealing with a lot of people that have no fucking idea what the problem is because they're just not... That's horseshit. Fuck that. It's not horseshit. It's not horseshit. What are you talking?

How long as Tyler Sagan lived in the United States? Okay. Do Oli Mata now. Like, I don't understand what you're saying. They don't have racism in Europe. You're right about that. I completely understand what you're saying, but there is a different, come the fuck on, Ryan. There is a different connection for an NBA player to this issue than fucking Yonis Donskoy.

You have to be fucking kidding me if you don't see that. Of course, of course, there, because... That's his point. No, but that's, no, that's not. The point is that, like, you get to take a pass on this because you're not American. It's not, it's not taking a pass. It's saying that's why they don't quite get it. why it's dragging these guys by the collar into these issues.

He's not saying they get a pass. It definitely sounds like you're getting a pass. I disagree with that. I mean, you could say that. I'm just a little Canadian guy. I don't know what systemic racism is like. How could I possibly know? They don't have racism in Canada.

Fucking get a grip. I think they very much do have racism. Oh, you do? Oh, okay. I don't think that's what he's saying. I don't think it's. what he's saying at all. Sean, you were going to say something before I...

I mean, all I was going to say, just on the whole issue of the politics and whatever, and, you know, and again, I know there's people out there going, I don't want the politics, just play the games. I worked all day. I come home, I sit on my couch, I just want to watch a hockey game. I don't want politics. This, by playing last night, it is politics, and if you don't believe me, look at the people who are not inclined to support the NBA right now.

Look at the people who are not inclined to support black, Matter, they got the message aloud and clear from the NHL last night. Whether that message was intended or not, whether that message was something anyone wanted to send or not, they got it very clearly, that the NHL is their league, the NHL is on their side. And that's the unfortunate reality. You don't always have the option to sit this stuff out. Sometimes you really do have to pick a side.

And that's the test that the NHL failed. last night. Yeah. And as we always say on this show, like, we just did a half an hour. It's three people from a very specific ideology from very specific backgrounds. Go seek out black hockey fans. Go seek out black hockey writers. Go seek out black writers that write on other sports and read what this moment means to them.

And read especially what the NHL's decision last night meant to them as well. And read them and listen to them and amplify their voices. but also don't sit back and expect them to do all the work on this. Yeah. You know, just like with the NHL, yes, it's great that we're asking players of color what they think, but it's not just up to them to drag all the rest of us forward.

So, yeah, seek them out, amplify, but just doing that, you're not finished. Yeah. All right. I guess that's a good place to transition to talking about an agent tweeting a picture of his client being stabbed in the back with a sword, brandishing the name of his head coach, which is also a thing that happened. Fucking everything that's ever happened in life happens since the last episode, I think, the more I look at it at this rundown today. I don't know how the hell we're going to hear of thoughts. Yeah, it's been a packed week.

It's really, let's be that way. The coyotes lost their first round pick 17 days ago, Ryan. Can you believe it? Wow. Crazy. Yeah, crazy. So let's talk about the Flurry thing real quick. What was your take on this as far as Walsh tweeting it, as far as Florey's participation in it?

And as far as whether it was warranted, Ryan? Well, I mean, it wasn't warranted. There's Mark Andre Flurie coming off a not good year, lots of injuries and that kind of thing. And they went out specifically and they got laid in her specifically because they were like, oh, we can't trust Margondre Flurry in the fucking playoffs. It's an insurance policy, whatever you want to say. And the idea that, like, oh, he's not playing enough. You know, I don't know what that's based on, you know.

Like, is it because he didn't completely shit his pants against Chicago in that one game where they were like, it doesn't fucking matter if we win or lose? Or what? Like, I really don't know. But with that having. Ben said, like, you know, if Flurry did know or didn't know, whatever, like, I don't think, I think that's kind of immaterial at this point. But what I do think is that, like, if I'm an NHL player and I'm coming up on a new contract,

I'm like, maybe I get Alan Walsh to be, like, that dude is fucking ride or die, right? Like, like, that, him, him doing that where he's like, oh, everybody's going to be really pissed off at me, but I don't give a shit because, like, Mark Andre Fleury. is my client. I do what I can for my clients, blah, blah, blah, like, respect, like, he, that's so cool. Like, that, that's, that's, that's, that's a homie right there, you know. And, um, I don't know, like I, I, I would be, if I'm Mark Andre Flore, I might be a little pissed off that he did it, if I didn't know about it, uh, that just because of the, the timing or, or whatever, but I would be like, I know that guy has my back one trillion percent and like that fucking rules.

It, yeah. Yeah. That's an agent's job. I mean, I don't know if Fleury knew that this tweet was going to come, but he was obviously okay with it. Even if I'm not expecting him to trash his own agent publicly, although he could have done that if he was so inclined. But the fact that the tweet stayed up for like 24 hours tells me that there wasn't like a text from player to agent saying, dude, what are you doing? Take that down. So, yeah, he was okay with it.

It's interesting to me because I've, you know, every few years I do a piece where I try to figure out, like, are there any players in the NHL that nobody hates? And Fleury's always one of the first guys that comes up. I mean, even his ex-team loves him, his current team. And it was interesting to see him sort of get his hands dirty a little bit on this sort of thing. And I'm curious to see how it plays out both in this series, especially since it seems like there's a good chance we're going to see. Mark Andre Fleury shortly, and that'll be fascinating how he goes out and performs. But even beyond that, like, Robin Leonard's going to leave as a free agent. Fleury's still got two years left.

That's $7 million a year. You're not getting out of that deal. So, like, what comes next? If this, you know, let's say Fleury goes out and plays and doesn't play well, and they put Leonard back in, and he goes the rest of the way, this comes kind of a fascinating situation for Vegas, how they, how they manage this. But, yeah, I mean,

it's almost like this is a bad contract for them to watch. Yeah, well, it's almost as if throwing big money at goaltenders, especially goalings while on the wrong side of 30 is almost always a bad idea. I just, the other piece I want to know, and I'd love to read it behind the scenes on this, like, where did he get this from? Like, is there like a, like, who do you commission this sort of artwork from? I really want to know. There's somebody out there somewhere who got like a email from Alan Walsh.

Like, hey, man, can we throw a sword and this guy's back and put, I don't know. I think it was the same guy who did, I think it was the same guy who did the art for the Don Ross Diamond Kings cards back in the day. It looked a very similar artistic design. I like the, you know those NBC things that they do? Ooh, yes. It kind of felt like the same sort of thing. The one where it was the big classroom. and Dowdy and Getslaff are in the back, like, just fucking around.

Oh, yeah. Like, what are the secret little things? Like, is Tavares wearing a bed sheet as a cape and stuff like that? It's right. Maybe that's the same. I just like, I just like the fact that NHL agents have, have progressed beyond leaking gripes about ice time to their favorite Canadian calmness and are just now trafficking in memes.

I mean, this is better. Like, I think that's a pretty good thing going forward. I wrote about Flurry today. I kind of think he got fucked, to be honest with you. I know what you're saying, Ryan, about the Lainer trade being an insurance policy on Flurry. But if you go back and look at what Kelly McCrimmon said at the time, and pretty much everywhere he spoke, it was, this was a trade made because we don't trust Malcolm Suban. And if anything happens to Mark Andre will be okay. Now, you could say what, something did happen in our country.

Yeah, he got bad at hockey. He didn't have to get a regular season. But even going through training camp, Pete DeBore is saying, we're going to be a two-goly situation. You know, we're going to trade off. We've seen teams do this in the past. And Flores played two out of the first ten games, and didn't even get out of the crack in the Chicago series

winning that game against Chicago, where he was fucking fantastic. Lainer goes the next night, he loses. Lainer comes back in game five for the elimination game. I think Flory deserved the crease in the playoffs. I think it should have been his to lose. I think he built up enough equity in that organization to get that nod. And I also think that Vegas is good enough where if he couldn't do it, they would have been fine. I don't think, and I also don't think he would have been spectacularly bad to the point where it would have like undercut their playoff run.

I just, I don't know. I feel like he got fucked over. And the one part of this that I found really interesting in writing about it, do you know what happened 48 hours after the trade for Lainer? Dave Pryor, who was the director of goaltending for the Golden Knights since the team arrived. George McPhee bought him on left. And at the time, the team said, well, he's still like the goalie guy for us. he's just doing it back in Ontario now. And then Sinbin.

Vegas did an interview with them later on in, I think it was June. And he said, oh, that's fucking, that's bullshit. They fired me. And so long-time goaltending coach has falling out with team 48 hours after trade for a goalie. That's a little pinky to me. There's something going on under the surface here that I'm not quite sure what it is. but the situation stinks a little bit and it continued to stink when Flore

didn't get the crease in the playoffs. Well, again, I mean, they traded for a guy who's been one of the best goalies in the league over the last two years. Right. And Flurry had a bad regular season, injuries, all that kind of stuff. So, I mean, I think that

if you want to say, oh, it was his crease to lose or whatever, maybe he fucking lost it in the regular season by going 9-05 or whatever the number one. I don't remember off the top of my head. Yeah. It was like I feel like it was a little below league average is what it was. And for a team like Vegas that is good and doesn't give up like a ton of high quality chances or whatever, like a little below league average is probably well below what the expected goals number is and all that kind of stuff.

So. They certainly give up chances in game too. Holy shit. I'm fascinated to see which Vegas team. is going to be the team that Vancouver sees more often than not in the series, because it was two different teams and games one and two with the Golden Knights. We should mention real quick Jonathan Marsh is. So again, this happened yesterday too.

Holy shit. Had to apologize during a press conference for getting into fights with fans, calling him a diver in his Instagram comments, at one point telling one of these critics to go home and suck on his mama's tities. Very normal thing to say. Very fucking regular. So he apologized for his, quote, childish and immature and not professional conduct on Instagram,

which was another thing that happened yesterday. What a day. Colorado Dallas, Colorado got back into the series last night. What the fuck with Dallas scoring all these goals? It's kind of crazy. Well, I think everybody on their top line realized, oh, we're actually supposed to be fucking good and stuff. They got their defense involved too, though.

Like, that's a major part of it. But I mean, they're top line scoring two goals a game now. Yeah. So that helps. Do you believe in the stars, Sean? I mean, to what extent? I mean, they're good. All eight teams left are good.

Any one of these teams can win. I pick Colorado to win that series, like I think almost everyone did. But, yeah, I mean, that is the weird thing about Dallas is, you know, even just a few years ago, they were like the fun running gun team. Yeah. Win six to five. And then not overnight, but over the course of not very many years, they went full 180 and became the defensive two one, you know, not boring team. I don't, you know, I don't want to get into that whole thing. but definitely like low scoring, whole different approach.

But they had a lot of the same guys. So, I mean, you're looking at it, and it was always kind of in the back of your mind looking at this team going, like, what if they clearly know how to play defense? They clearly know how to score. What if they ever figured out how to do them both at the same time? And, you know, one week against Colorado

doesn't mean that they've suddenly unlocked that puzzle. But, you know, there is, like there are certain teams that are low-scoring teams, defensive teams, where you look at it and you go, well, they've got like one or two guys, but everyone else would really need to heat up for them to be an offensive threat. And Dallas isn't that.

Like, you look at Dallas, and you can see, you know, these guys can, if Jamie, you know, Jamie Ben won an Art Ross. He's not all that good these days, but... He won an Ross all the time. He won an Ross with like 81 points. Yeah, I was going to say by default. But, you know, he's been an elite guy.

If suddenly that comes back, they get scared. So you know what? I still say Colorado wins the series, but I do think I probably, I mean, I'm like everyone else. I was already looking ahead to Colorado, Vegas. And apparently didn't get that memo. Yeah, I'll say this about their scoring depth. Dennis Gorianov, now it looks like what everybody thought Rope Hintz was going to be because he's had like a 22% shooting percentage for that one month at the end of the last season.

And everybody's like, oh, Rope Hayans, he's the next great. And, like, Dennis Garianov has, like, six or seven goals, like, the most on the stars by a lot in the postseason. Yeah, Gariano's been awesome. And then also, like, Pete DeBore made a good point the other day about Pavelsky, which is that, like, he kind of knew Pavelsky was going to be fucking fantastic in these playoffs because it's the first time he's ever gotten any, like, rest before a playoff run. And, you know, like, he's been incredible. Like, I mean, he's, he's done all the Pavelsky things that you expect. him to do and yet being like, what is he like, like 38 now. He's, this is, this is the reason they signed him.

And he's been fucking fantastic for them. Sean, are the Islanders fun? We just talked about Dallas. Yeah. Do you find the Islanders to be fun? I don't find this debate to be fun because I did this a few years ago with the senators and I, you know, I'll say the same, I'll recycle my same take from the senators. Well, that doesn't sound like you.

And, you know, that senator's team, yeah, they were boring, but they were winning. A team is never, a team that you cheer for is never boring when they're winning, all right? Like a 1-0 win is fun as long as it ends in a win. So, you know, Islander fans who feel like they have to get their backs up and defend this team. Like, no, like, you're an Islander fan. They're winning. It's perfectly fine to say, yeah, this is, I love this style of hockey. You know, this is two years ago, we all thought the Islanders were going to be junk.

And then Barry Trots comes along and teaches them how to play defense. And they've been winning ever since. It's great if you're an Islander fan. You don't have to get defensive about it. They're a low-scoring team. I take the point that, you know, if you look at some other metrics, they're not necessarily a team that just chokes the life out of the game to win 2-1. But they still win 2-1.

And, you know, personally, I find teams are a little more offense, It's more fun to watch. But if you're an Islanders fan, they're winning, who cares? You know, beyond that, spending all day combing Twitter, looking for people who are saying your team's boring so you can go argue with them is, you know, there's probably better use to see your time. Yeah, it's funny. I saw Mike Kelly on NHL Network saying like, oh, well, you know,

they're like third or fourth in rush goals per 60. And, you know, they score a lot of goals overall and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I feel. I just, I, I, I said to myself, like, that that's not, that doesn't feel right. Like, I'm sure, like, he didn't make those numbers up, but, like, there have to be other. What if he, what if he did? Well, so, like, I don't know, rush goals on per 60. I have a fucking no idea.

But, um, but so I looked it up. And, you know, I think that we would all agree that the hockey that is most exciting, quote, unquote, if you're not an Islanders fan, or a fan of any team that plays like this, is when there's just like a lot of shit going on in the whole game, right? Right. A one-nothing game with a lot of chances is fascinating. Yes. It's amazing.

But 99% of one-nothing games aren't that. Right. So I looked it up, and this is per 60, in all situations, shot attempts in the total game, not just for one team or the other. All Islanders games rank 18th. of every team to make the quote unquote postseason. 18 out of 24. Unblocked shot attempts, 22nd out of 24.

Shots on goal. 23rd out of 24. Goals, 14th. Okay, fair enough. Expected goals, 15th. Not great or anything. Scoring chances, they're actually seventh, which is weird because their high danger scoring chances per hour are 15th.

So they're getting like, Islanders games, I guess the point is, feature a lot, but not like a huge amount of middle danger scoring chances. And that's about it. I've made the 95 Devils comparison as many times as Pierre LeBron has compared the Vancouver Canox to Chicago Blackhawks. And Sean's point is the right one, which is that teams are super fun if you're a fan of that team. Yes, exactly. I understand should not give a shit that other people say the team's boring. Like, what they should say is, yeah, we're boring and we are winning a lot of games. So what do we get a shit?

It is reminiscent of that team, though, in the sense that I think a lot of their offense comes on the counterpunch. Yeah, 100. Well, again, like, that's where all the rush goals come from and everything. Right. Like, yeah, turnovers and then just like in 95 when like Claude Lemieux and Stefan Rischet and those guys would streak down the other way score goals. You know, it's Barzell, it's, it's, uh, it's all those guys. So it's, it's, it's, uh, it's reminiscent of it. And it's just funny to kind of like, it's like jumping outside of nine, nine, five Greg's body to see how everybody else treated the devils during that. Now,

no one's calling the Islanders the death of hockey necessarily. Wait till they want to something. Then, then, because it's this league, everybody will be like, what if we never left our defensive zone? Oh, let me tell you something right now. I, I was actually having a conversation with somebody on, I think it was maybe Calgary Radio the other day, like, how quick do you think Jim Montgomery is getting another job in this league? Yeah. Like, he's gone to rehab, he's cleaned up. He coaches just like the Islanders and the Coyotes, all these fucking teams that have done

pretty well in the postseason with defensive systems. Like, that's what he does. Like, the stars are basically just kind of doing a variation on Montgomery's theme right now. Absolutely. I think he gets a job, like, in this cycle if he's cleaned up. A head coaching job, do you think? Yeah, see, that's the thing I'm not sure about is I think he's got to kind of prove it again first, but, you know, it's not for me to say. It'll be interesting.

But I think he's, like, I agree with you. As much as it's been running gun and fun and stuff, there are so many teams excelling right now with a more defensive style that I think we're going to start to see the coaching hiring is reflecting that more. finally Boston Tampa Boston gets absolutely fucking steamrolled in game three I don't know what happened there I just like you take a mulligan on that yep but um but like the lightning now winning games sans stamp coast and McDonough so that's pretty good yeah it's almost like they're like remarkably deep for being in a cap league and it's crazy it's like oh we're missing a guy who scored 60 goals one time and is a pretty reliable 30 goal score besides that.

Oh, is that a problem? Oh, no, not at all. We just beat the best team in the league seven to one. Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, great. We had Pete Blackburn on the other podcast this week and talked about this, but like, you're Boston adjacent.

How bad is the Tuka-Rask revisitation of his decision going to be if Halak and the Bruins go out in this round? I think fucking Eddie Olchuk was talking about it in the third period last night. It's a... Viz of me, like, poor Dan Vlodar getting thrown to the wolves, that kind of thing. But it's like... Yeah. Well, I guess this is going to be a fucking thing now, because Halak gave up, what,

four in the previous game and then five or six or whatever the number was? Yeah. On back-to-back nights, which typically... Well, it hasn't played back-to-back in a little... a while. But yeah, but I mean like at the same time, like nobody, nobody's played back to back in a while, right? Like, that's kind of the, the impact of playing a back-to-back game as a goaltender is overstated when the other goalie has to do the same thing. Like, nobody was saying, oh, you know what?

I wonder how Vasilevsky is going to hold up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I just wish we could get all the boss fans together and just figure out this two, Ras thing now because when he when he left I saw a whole bunch of takes saying it didn't matter because addition by subtraction he's a loser halax better rask is is garbage in the playoffs anyways and now that halaks had a couple of rough games suddenly to Garasca's torpedoed a sure thing

cup winner because he's not there I pick one let's let's just let's just pick a lane All right. Speaking to Boston, Milbury leaves the bubble after his comments about how the players were lucky that there were no women to tempt them and distract them inside of the bubbles and inside the hotels. We kind of talked about this previously with him, and like it's not worth the breath to really, like, stress out about the things. that he says. But what were your thoughts about him actually, like, packing up the tent and getting out? I mean, do you think that's an NBC decision or do you think it's Milbury saying that it's just not the worth of trouble?

When the league's putting out statements about how the guy said something bad, like it's an NBC decision or an NHL and NBC decision. But I don't think he was like, you know what? I'm the distraction now and I'm getting out of it. Like, that's not how Mike Milvery thinks. I'll pull the shoot, boys. Don't worry. Like I said at the time, if you don't understand why that comment was kind of a toxic comment, it's the same comment that teams or the same sort of like idea the teams have used for decades in not hiring women for their organizations.

And previous to that, not letting women into the locker room to interview players as members of the media. It is this idea of these guys are just walking penises and the mere presence of a lady in our hockey ops department. My God, we'll just set them all a Twitter and they'll never be able to concentrate on their hockey games. And this is an actual thing that teams did to apply to not then hire women for their organizations. And it's been a problem in hockey and in other sports for decades. So it reinforced that shit, and that's why it was fucking horrible to say. Yeah, I don't think anybody needed that primer of, like, everybody. You'd be surprised.

Well, let me put it this way. I don't think too many people who listen to this show and know how we feel about these things generally needed that. But, like, yeah, I mean, the thing is that this is, this was always just what Milbury brought to the table. You know what I mean? And like, you didn't go to Mike Milbury for, like, exciting breakdowns of what happened on that three-on-two goal. You brought him in to be like, you know, like just a fucking, like, third voice to be like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, he didn't.

He was on the state, the network, to be a junior league Don Cherry back when they were like, O'LN, right? Yeah. And that's why he was there. So, you know, they could do their thing between periods being like, Mike, what would you tell the flyers between periods? periods now that they're down a goal. I punch him in the face, you know, and then everybody chuckles. And then what happened was, unfortunately, Eddie Olcheck got cancer. And then Mike Milbury was forced into a role that he was completely ill-fitted for,

which is to be a color commentator during a live hockey game, which leads him to extemporaneously speak, which leads him to say dumb shit. So part of the issue here was that he was miscast. But he goes home. Yeah. I'll just say this on Mike Milbury. I understand and accept that what happened was he tried to make a joke. I don't think he really believes that women shouldn't be in the bubble.

I don't think he really believes that women can't be around male hockey players. The conversation went in a certain way. He had an opening for what he thought was going to be a funny comment, and he threw it out there, and probably either immediately regretted it or maybe head-to-have-haven pointed out to him afterwards. And as somebody who spends a lot of time making jokes, it's kind of one of those things where you're sitting there going,

yeah, you can kind of see where sometimes something that works in your head just doesn't work once it goes out in the world and you feel terrible for it. and I don't necessarily think Mike Milbury is a bad guy because of this. I have no insight into what type of guy he is, and I don't think this incident provides any. But I think he made a bad joke, and I don't think that makes him a bad guy,

but it makes him a bad broadcaster, because you can't say things into a live, open mic that is being broadcast to millions of people without really thinking it through. And you just can't make that mistake. And so, you know, I'm not necessarily looking to, you know, to say that he's some sort of horrible person. But it was the right call for him to go home because, you know, you just can't have that. It's not the first time with him.

And, you know, frankly, you know, and Katie Strang wrote just a brilliant piece on The Athletic about this. And, you know, one of the points she made was, like, even aside from this, has anyone ever, have you ever heard anyone, any hockey fans start a sentence with, you know, I thought Mike Milberry made a good point about this. You know, I, Mike, I thought Mike Milbury said something really interesting last night and then tell you something smart. Like, that's never happened. And so if you're just kind of there to play a character and to be the, not even the comic relief, but to play like that certain type of role and be the poor man's Don Cherry, you just can't be screwing up and saying things on live television that you immediately or shortly after regret. That's just the reality of it.

This is a very high profile and very hard to get job, and there's lots of people who can do it better than Mike Bilberry can right now. Yeah, that was kind of my big thing with it is he's, like, I just don't feel like he's ever brought any. of any note to a broadcast other than these kinds of controversies. And, you know, you can go down the history. It's, it's not a, this is not an isolated incident per se. It might be in specifically talking about, uh, women in the sport or whatever you want to say, but it, he says dumb shit all the time.

And it's not like he, even Don Cherry, like you can say what you want about Don Cherry. The guy's got charisma for days. Mike Milbury does not. And so I don't, like, that's kind of my thing is I've always just kind of felt like he doesn't bring anything to the table as a broadcaster just in terms of what charisma is there. You know what I mean? And I don't think there's a, I don't think there's a, oh, yeah, you know, this one thing he said this one time, like, could you even put together a good highlight package of, oh, here's all the cool stuff Mike Milberry has said on TV? No, totally. There was the time he called the Siddins of Thelman Louise. There was a time he complained about the pusification of hockey.

There's a lot of things. He said wussification. Oh, do you say wussification? Yeah, you can't say that on TV. I think he meant pusification. You know what? I think you're probably right about that. But yeah, I mean, you know, like, I just think any broadcast I've ever seen with Mike Milbury have been like, oh, this guy brings nothing to the fucking. And I'm not saying, like, because whenever.

you say this, people go, oh, you would? No, I don't think I would either. But, you know, who would is a lot of other people who have worked and played in the game. So, that's fine. Kaspari Kappan gets traded to the Penguins. Now,

Sean, was it difficult, or not difficult, was it surreal to see about, what, a week after Kyle Dubus was being called incompetent and over his head, him pulling off a trade that had everybody saying, Wow, what a great trade?

Yeah. Was it disorienting to see the Toronto media market pivot on something? No, not really. We're kind of used to that one. So, yeah, it's, you know, it was a, they got surprisingly strong value back for a guy that they probably, they didn't have to trade Casperi Caput, and they had to trade somebody like that. They've, and the Leafs can say all they want about how we've got more cap room than people think. And they probably do because they've got the world's number one cap expert on staff.

But they didn't have a lot. It was really hard to find a way they were going to be able to upgrade anywhere significantly. They had to move somebody. So this is step one. You know, I'm a little bit thrown off by how many people are looking at this going, you know, great trade, great trade. It is potentially a great trade. But a team that just lost in the playoffs yet again got worse by this trade. Yep.

Like the Leafs right now are worse than they were a week ago. Now, sometimes you've got to take a step back so that you can move forward, and that's certainly what this is. But, you know, I'm kind of before I am going to, you know, I'll applaud the trade, but before I go standing ovation on it, I kind of want to see what comes next and what they spend this cap money on. Because, you know, obviously the blue line is the issue. The blue line is what they've got to address.

They've now got some more money to do it with. Although, you know, I keep reading this analysis saying, well, you know, they like this is Evan Rodriguez kid. You know, maybe they'll, if that eats up half your space if you're going to keep him. So, you know, they didn't create an enormous amount. Like they're not, they're not suddenly in the Petrangelo sweepstakes because they traded one third-line winger, but they've got some room now. And it's, it's, it's a good deal. I also get it from the Pittsburgh perspective. I've seen a lot of criticism of, of the penguins, but I kind of, I kind of get it, man. You've, you've got Crosby and Malkin. This is,

this is not the time to be overly protective of mid-round picks that aren't going to have an impact for three more years. You've got Crosby and Malkin right now. It's not like they traded a first-round pick for some 35-year-old, who's got one year left. I think Caspera Capnan's 23. You know, he could, he's, he's got a lot of years and potentially some room for improvement still on the aging curve. So I get what Pittsburgh's doing too. I didn't hate it as much as a lot of people did. But I think for what the Leafs need as they step one, good trade, but it's step one. They got a ways to go. Yeah, that was my take too. It's like I saw everybody shredding Pittsburgh and praising Toronto.

on a like up and down and I I kind of feel like neither team is like okay yeah okay Pittsburgh has a little more scoring depth but they're just mainly going to use that to replace guys they're probably going to lose or trade in the off season and so like maybe it's a a net positive in terms of they got similar production for for maybe a little bit less money because because cap and's cap controlled but like it doesn't address what everybody understands the problems of the penguins to be, which is that their defense stinks. And it's the same problem is true in Toronto. So it didn't really look like, oh, this is a, this is a fit for, for trading partners either, you know. Obviously, like, you don't want to

give up the 15th pick for nothing. I, obviously, you know, I don't even know what the percentage of a chance that pick turns into a Casperi cap and type of a player is, I'd say it's probably fairly low. So, like, I don't see that as being necessarily a problem either, but at the same time, like, the athletic had a thing today that Rutherford has traded 28 picks since he came to Pittsburgh. And it's like, that was like four years ago. How is that possible? Well, it's also when your general manager is 85 years old.

Yeah, no. He's not thinking about five years from now. Right. No, but like that's, if you, if you had said, you know, how many picks do you think Rutherford has traded since he took over the penguins? I'd have said 10, 15? Like, 28 is an incomprehensible number to me. And so, like, yeah, you know, you got to capitalize when Malkin and Kros.

be and LaTang are still relatively productive, but, A, I think horse is kind of out of the barn on that one, 2021. But also, you know, like, they're just, now they're, once those guys are like, done, done, you're setting yourself up for a situation where you're going to be picking very high for many years in a row because you didn't have any picks at all this whole time. And so, yeah, I just, I think. Both teams are kind of in wait and C mode because they got to, Pittsburgh has to trade one of the goalies, and Toronto has to use that cap space and blah, blah, blah.

And maybe use the pick, too. They might just trade that pick is. That's what I kind of think they're going to do, honestly. Yeah. But I, it's a wait and see trade for both. Yeah, and like, I don't, I don't get why anybody would have a strong feeling on what all this means one way or the other just because it's, you know, the trade to set up the trade or the signing, you know, for both parties. So whatever.

The strong feeling I have is that Jim Rutherford is falling back into one of the classic tropes during his time as Carolina GM, which is the reacquisition of players he previously acquired. Yeah, he only knows guys who have already played for him. It is so fucking weird. Like Eric Cole, Joe Corvo, I think, had four different stints with the Carolina Hurricanes during Rutherford's time there. And now he already reacquired Connor Sheary last year. And now it's like, oh, let's see, who am I going to trade for? I know the young man I drafted, whose father I drafted? You know, it is just like, and I'm popping up Werther's.

It's a classic Jim Rutherford move. And it's just so, it's a very, listen, guys, a Hall of Fame. or dude put together two championship teams, unimpeachable success in this league. I'll never understand that very strange sort of quirk to his acquisition process and happened to always get guys that he previously picked or traded for. Okay, hear me out. Pittsburgh Penguins defenseman Ron Hainesie for 2020. Now we're talking.

Now we're talking. The Capitals fired Todd Reardon this week. No shit. Having realized that they wasted two years of a Vetchin's career with a assistant coach. Did it know how to be a head coach? You know, the more we hear about the Barry Trots contract situation, the more it makes sense that it didn't happen. I can't, I know there's like a default setting of like, oh, the capitals should have just like bought back Barry Trots.

Barry Trots wanted a fucking five-year contract, which means that by the end of his tenure, he would have been there for nine years. And there is absolutely no coaches that are there for nine years. Well, it's a Barry Trots and Nashville and. Right. But that's like, Nashville's just a different situation. Not lately. Not since Barry Trots left. No. No, I mean like in the sense that David Poil never fires anybody.

It's a different situation as far as having time. Not lately. Not since Barry Trots left. I understand a little bit more where they came from as far as the impasse goes. And then on top of that, you know, Leonsis is holding trots his feet to the fire because of the contract he had previously negotiated. I just, I mean, it's pretty clear the issue was they picked the wrong. guy to succeed him. They thought they had something in Reardon to be a head coach.

The players liked them as a continuation of the previous regime, which obviously resulted in winning the cup in 2018. But based on the results of the last two seasons, it's pretty clear they need a veteran coach with a pedigree. The only time Ovechkin wins a cup in his career is the only time he has a coach with previous experience. This isn't putting on Ovi. It's just to say that everybody else, the capitals, ever put through that job.

was a novice, and they went back to a novice, and now they understand they need to go and get a veteran. So good job on correcting the mistake, two years too late. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think this was always going to happen. Like, they were always going to go, oh, maybe Todd Reardon, like, playing dollar store Barry Trots hockey. This isn't going to fucking work out. Like, no shit. Dr. Skipper, Barry Tross.

That's exactly right. And so, you know, now they're going to go out and get like Mike Babcock or Pierre Lavie. Okay, sure. But again, like you said, well, everybody's two years older. So that's not ideal. Like, you know, Ovechkins still scores a lot of goals, but those holes in this game are only going to get bigger, like the ones that everybody's known about forever. And at some point, like, that's going to be as much of a hindering. know, where now we have to have the, is Connor McDavid really still the best player in the world?

Because Nathan McKinnon's played well for the last two weeks. Like, it's going to be the same shit with Ovechkin, like the same criticisms of, oh, well, sure, he scores 50 goals a year, but, you know, he's bad, he's so bad defensively that, blah, blah, blah. And I think in Ovechkin's case, that's a way more reasonable argument, especially as he ages. And doesn't he only have like one year left after this season? I don't know what you do.

I don't know what you do. Well, I think what you do is you kind of similar to the penguins. You try to win now. I mean, this is it. You've got your window. Ovechkin does have one year left, although we can all assume he comes back after that. You're right. Everyone's older.

The window is closing. So get the right guy in now. So I wasn't surprised they made the move. My only surprise is that you've got a GM in Brian McClellan, who's not a rookie GM anymore, but a first-time GM. And to fire your hand-pick coach after two years is sort of an admission that you messed up. And that's something that some GMs early in their careers don't want to do. They like to try to squeeze an extra year out.

But I think it was the right call. And the good news is you want a veteran coach. which there's probably never been a better time to hire one because there's a ton of them out there who are pretty good. Indeed. Pour a little out for Mike Green, retiring. Yep. I mentioned this in the column today.

Like, I think we're going to look back on Mike Green as being one of the most important players in the analytics movement in NHL history. I know for me that was the first time. his two-year run where he would finish the Norris twice. That was the first time for me that I really considered the idea of a great puck possession player being also a great defensive player, even if the highlight reel is filled with him blowing defensive assignments. And I think that if you, if he, if you redid that one year, like we talked about this in the

bonus episode one time, if you did that one year where he lost Achara and that was like now, he'd win it a fucking blowout, I think, the year he had 31 goals. Yeah, he, um, Shunjantilly said it, uh, perfectly yesterday. He, like, he forced a lot of people to reconsider their view of the game, like, holistically. And, you know, he didn't get the trophies, uh, out of it that he probably should have, and, and he never won a cup or anything like that. But, you know, between being a foundationally important player that, like, like shifts how the media at large talks about and understands your game.

And the fact that he made like 60 something million dollars in his career, like I don't know how you have a better career than that without, you know, racking up a couple of Norrises and blah, blah, blah. Like the understanding that you probably deserved a couple of Norris's and everything else that comes with that, like I think that's pretty cool too. always been a Mike Green fan. So, like, you know, injuries and ending up in bad situations like Detroit and blah, blah, blah,

like, that's kind of how it goes. This guys get older. Like, he pulled the shoot at the right time. Great fucking player. We're all internet olds, the three of us on this podcast. Yeah. Imagine if the young guns happened now, like in this media. culture. Like the Ovechkin,

Baxter, Baxter, Semin, Green, we're going to all get together at a at a bar in Falls church and shoot a music video for our team kind of fucking young guns. Like the young guns that were on HBO 24-7 where Mike Green is driving to practice on a fucking Vespah with a mohawk. Like that whole team was just like,

maybe like three or four years too early. Yeah. From being like an absolute obsession. for people in the NHL. That was such a fun time, man, to see that franchise, like, get transformed before your very eyes from being this more abundant, we fucked up the Yager trade kind of, kind of franchise to then being like this sensation in the DC market, like, like a religion started

for hockey fans there. It was fucking phenomenal. Anything on Mike Green, Sean? Or no? I mean, good player probably didn't get enough credit when he was playing when he was at his best probably got somewhat overrated later in his career because of that

and yeah, all the best to him and probably, you know, made the right call by not going into the bubble if you're done, you're done and uh, uh,

uh, wish them all the best in whatever comes next. There you go. Let's, uh, let's give a, Christmas present to Ryan now and talk about the St. Louis Blues. They held a press conference yesterday did Doug Armstrong in the blues, and a lot came out of it. First off, let's talk about the fact that they are the first team, I think, to indicate that COVID-19 played a role in their playoff ouster.

Doug Armstrong said 20% of his roster had COVID. So that's five guys. So five guys. That is probably the four players and one member of the team's coaching staff that tested positive for COVID-19. Quoting the St. Louis Post Dispatch from July, the problems may have started at a bar in Clayton, where several team members gathered more than a week ago. Members of the general public were also in the establishment, according to a source, a few days after that get together a player tested positive.

Subsequently, another player and coach tested positive, followed by two additional players. So hanging out at a bar during COVID gets a bunch of people sick. They were just looking for some cheesy 80 song to inspire them. Oh, my God. But Doug Armstrong explicitly saying that the after effects of COVID and also the inability of his team to really train as they needed to, leading into the playoffs for reasons why the Blues did not perform up to standards in this postseason. So first team to really kind of play the COVID card in their postseason failure.

Jordan Bittington swears he's going to come back stronger and better. Put this behind him, Ryan. Good luck to him. I'm anxious to see it because I think he turned back into a pumpkin and everybody should have seen it coming. And Sean, Alex Petrangelo is an unrestricted free agent. It does sound like the team is going to try to bring him back.

It does sound like Petro desperately wants to stay in St. Louis. It's where his stuff is, as we've talked about many times on this podcast. But there is a chance the money won't work out, which means there's a chance that he might hit the open market, which means there's a chance that he could become the number one. foundational defenseman for your Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, they've got $4 million in cap space. That's probably enough.

Yeah, I mean, there's sort of, I guess, I'm going to say there's a couple of options. I guess there's like four options. Option number one, which is probably the one he's going to take, is figure out a way to stay in St. Louis. That's where he wants to be. It's going to be hard to make it work cap-wise, but, you know, maybe, maybe they can figure something out. That's option number one. Option number two is you go wherever you can get the most money, which every player has a right to do,

but this year that's going to really limit your options to maybe some potentially weird places. If you're looking for the big, you know, eight, seven-year deal, big time money, that's going to be pretty hard to get. But not impossible. There'll be some places where you can do it. option three is to want to go to the Leafs because you're from the area and every player who's from within a thousand miles of Toronto gets that treatment. Sean, we call them kilometers. Yes, I know. I was trying to speak American.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. Or option four is you go somewhere on a short-term deal where you can presumably win, which maybe is also Toronto. Although at that point, you've got to think there's other teams that are ahead of you.

Look, I said, I think it was last week. There is a scenario where I can see if I'm, Alex Petrangelo, where I say, if I can't go back to St. Louis, and I know I'm not going to get

my seven-year deal somewhere where I want to be for seven years because of the flat cap and because everyone's just trying to dig out and figure out what the next year is going to look like. If I got to take a short-term deal somewhere,

there is a part of me, that says go take a deal in Toronto, play close to home, be on TV every night, get overhyped, like every leaf is for a year, maybe win a cup, but then after a year where I've got my Norris or whatever else has happened, then go cash in somewhere else when it'll be a lot easier to do that. I still, if I'm going to take a one-year deal, I'm going to take a one-year deal in St. Louis. You sure? But, yeah. Yeah, that's, where I am, that's where I want a cop. That's where I'm the captain.

Yes. But if that's maybe not an option or if there's other things going on, I don't think it's an impossible scenario. I just really don't see. I still don't see a scenario where the Leafs can put together a competitive offer for this guy where he's going to say that is the best. This isn't a John DeVar's situation where, you know, yeah, he wanted to go to Toronto, but they still pay top dollar.

They don't have top dollar right now. but it's you know I gotta say as a fan just a hockey fan I kind of hope he hits free agency because it's fun when star players get to get to the open market

but I still suspect that the blues figure this out even though I have no idea how they're going to do that because they've given out so many other contracts to guys who are not him that I don't know where the space comes from the only thing I want out of life if the Avalan

do flame out in this postseason is for them to offer some crazy fucking contract for one season to somebody. Because this next year is going to be the year to do it because then I think after that, both McKinnon and McCar need contracts. Yeah. So they'll have the flexibility to do it for one year. And I'm just dying to see what the, like throw that money at Petro for a year and see what happens. I've already said I want him and Taylor Hall in Colorado. On Colorado? Why not?

Let's fucking go. Red Wings 2.0, baby. Loat up. Love it. And I'll tell you right now, like I know a lot of hockey fans are kind of saying the same thing. Would it be cool to have a super team?

I'm just going to make you this promise. If it actually happens, fans are going to hate it. Fans of other teams are going to be so annoyed when Taylor Hall is like taking a $2 million one-year deal to go play in Colorado, which maybe also just adds to the entertainment value of it, actually happening.

Right. And then they'll fail because of the goaltending and then those guys will leave and they'll trade for carry price or some shit. I mean, just see how this whole thing plays out. Well, they can get Lainer this summer too. Fuck it. Why not, right?

There you go. The Coyotes forfeit their second round pick this year or their first round pick next season for tampering with the NHL's draft combine process. Boy, when it rains, it pours in the desert, doesn't it, boys? No kidding.

just like that they really dropped the hammered didn't they they really did but you got a love you got to love I can't remember who said it but somebody somebody compared

John Chaka to Lyle Lanley and yes he just fucking got out of town I sold microsetats to Brockway Ogdenville and North Averbrook I tell you man if this gets any more serious I might have to

actually sit down and figure out what the hell the coyotes actually did. Like at some point. Yeah, I have no idea either. Try to learn what the actual problem is here, but I'm not quite. I just assumed it was more John Chaka measuring player's skulls to see what their brain capacity shit is. I figured that's what it was, but who's to say? Yeah, they're in a real pickle over there in it for a lot of reasons.

I will ask the panel this, because I wondered. this yesterday. Would the NHL have docked the coyotes a first round pick if the NHL still own the coyotes? Hmm. I know. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, they, you know, like, it's one thing you don't want to piss off the owner or, or especially a new owner or whatever, but on the other hand, like, hmm. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, it's, well, I'm going to say no. I'm going to say they dock them a second rounder, but they don't duck them the first rounder. Yeah, maybe two seconds.

Yeah. But like I, as we've seen before, like, I'm not totally convinced that they're actually going to say, you know what? You do have to give up that first round pick after all. They might still lose the second, but in much the same way as Ilya Kovalchuk thing didn't work out like they said it was going to. I wouldn't be surprised if that's how they. kind of, you know, figured it out in the end. We're super lazy and have no idea what this whole thing was about. But, like, are you surprised there wasn't any sanctions of John Chaka on this?

It doesn't work for anybody right now. Well, he's clearly going to try to get another job or some shit. Like, maybe it's like don't get another job for six months. It would, it's like, it's like penalizing Ilya Kovalchuk while he's still playing in the KHL. Like, okay, yeah, where are you going to do? Right. That's true. All right. Let's have a little fun.

First of all, spicy McNuggets are coming to McDonald's, Brian. Hell yeah. Hell yeah, dude. So Wendy's has spicy nugs. They're not great. This is McDonald's first variation on the McNugget. Burger King also has spicy nuggets, by the way. They're not very good either. But like McDonald's nuggets are great.

And so to have them now be spicy, tempera batter with I think it's cayenne and another pepper. This should be very exciting. Shaw, are you a Nuggets guy? I was. I have not eaten McDonald's in going on three years now. Oh, that's right. You get the McDonald's thing, right?

Before then, I was a big McNuggets guy, and in fact, I don't know, I thought the original recipe was pretty strong, so I'm not sure how interested I'd be in checking out something new. But, no, move point for me. What was your go-to sauce? Hot mustard. Yeah, we talked about this, man. This is not hot mustard and barbecue. You got to get one of each. Sometimes they give you a little attitude that you're asking for multiple sauce, but hold your ground and they'll, uh, they'll do it. And, uh, you want to use the hot mustard for about two-thirds of the nuggets and then, you know, mix it up with the barbecue and then you use the remaining barbecue for your fry sauce.

In theory, spicy nugs would then lead to spicy chicken sandwich, correct? Ryan, isn't that the natural progression of things? I think that's true. Although Wendy's did it backwards, and I think Burger King, oh, I don't know, Burger King, when their spicy nuggets came up versus, but obviously, yeah, Wendy's had their spicy chicken sandwich long before they had the spicy nuggets. Taco Bill gets maligned for being the... restaurant that

clearly the people coming up with the food items are smoking copious amounts of weed to come up with these ideas. I mean, what are these guys freaking doing, right? I actually think it's... I actually think it's... Precisely. I actually think it's...

I've always thought it's... I've always thought it's Burger King, though. Like, Burger King's, like, ideas for, like, variations on their food, including, like, chicken fries and shit. Chicken fries are disgusting. It's fucking bonkers. Yeah.

Yeah, it's never... pretty good. They're like burgers are like, let's put a, let's put sulfuric acid on top of the burger, like kind of shit. Like, it's so fucking strange. Yeah, I, you know, they, they kind of simplified it, uh, in, in recent years. And I think that's part of the reason why Burger King is, uh, improving in my estimation. Um, but yeah, I, I definitely do not fully trust them to get these kinds of things right all

the time, you know. I don't like Burger King, although I, as you know, did work at Burger King when I was in high school at the drive-thru closing the store because I had a car and also I would eat packets of blue cheese dressing in the freezer because that was kind of a fat kid. Bless you. Well, you didn't have to say bless you because I had muted myself. Oh. I'm sorry. That's fine.

I don't care. Now it just sounds like you were randomly. No. Great. I'm the Pope. I just go around. Just less than people. And sending letters to the NHL.

Blessing Burger King. Dear NHL, you guys are so good with your racism stuff that I give you this letter to say, hockey is for everyone. Signed the Pope. You know the Pope is from like Argentina, right? He's not. Nope, he's always going to sound like Father Gritos Arducci from the original SNL. You know that, right?

Apparently. Okay, let's give you guys a game show. I've created one for you this week. Oh, boy. I have the caveat that I know Ryan's, I know Sean's going to be challenged by it. I'm hoping Ryan's going to be challenged by it, but it's entirely possible he might run the table. It's a little game I like to call X-Men character, Lucidor. Sorry, Luchador.

or generic soda. Okay. So I'm going to give you a name, and you tell me if this was a member of the X-Men, a Lucha Door, mostly from Lucha Underground, or a generic soda brand that you may find in any supermarket, most likely here in the United States. So again...

Do we need to point out to people that Luchador is a wrestling thing? It's Mexican wrestlers, yes. Mexican wrestlers, people who wear masks. Yeah. Yeah, like Huventud Guerrero. Vampiro, so on and so. Ray Mysterio Jr. And now Dominic Mysterio, although he doesn't have a mask.

And I mean, you don't need to have a mask to be a luchador. You're just a Mexican. You just wrestle in Mexico. Silver King. Sammy Guevara of A.W. was a luchador. I did not have a mask. Yeah.

This is true. All right. So a member of the X-Men, a luchador, or a generic soda brand. Who gets it first? Who gets it first question here? Who wants to receive? I'll receive. Okay.

Ryan goes first. This is the noise of me crinkling a paper to then keep score. Bless you. Here we go. Thank you. Oh. The first one is Ramp. X-Men, Luchador, generic soda.

I'm going to say that is a luchador? Incorrect. Ramp is a soda brand found at giant supermarkets designed to compete with Mountain Dew. Well, that makes sense. Ramp is a generic soda. Sean White Rabbit. I'm going to say that's an X-Man character. Real name Kevin Geist, Lucha Underground, White Rabbit.

This game is shaping up exactly as I foreseen it. Okay. Yeah. Ryan Sunspot That's an X-Man for sure You damn right it is Mostly known for his time with the new mutants Sunspotted is of course

Roboto da Costa And one of my favorite New Mutants characters So that's one for Ryan Sunspotted is it Did also spend time with the X-Men Arrow Star Sean

Wow. That's A-E-R-O, like as an Aerosmith-type spelling. Oh, okay. Well, that, yeah, that significantly changes things. Two words. Two words as well. I'm going to say that's Lucha. Correct.

Nicely done. Arrow Star is Lucha Underground. Ryan Tango. Sounds like a soda to me. Tango is a soft drink originating in the United Kingdom, primarily sold, in the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, India, and Egypt. As of August 2019, the flavors of tango available in the UK were orange, strawberry, watermelon, and tropical. Sounds exciting.

So that's two for Ryan and one for Sean. Sean, Joey Wrestling. Come on. Joey Wrestling. Mm-hmm. I mean. would seem to pretty obviously be a wrestler, which leads me to think that this is one of these things

where I'm supposed to not go with the wrestler, but then you know that, and I know that you know, which means that I'm just going to say he's a wrestler, I'm going to say he's Lucha. You know, that Sherlockian breakdown of the questions and tensions was exactly right. Real name Adam Birch, Joey Wrestling, Lucha Underground.

Both glasses were poisoned. I can't fucking believe that you know me as a quiz master enough to know exactly the landmine that I tried to put down there for you to step on. Almost makes me sad. I mean, it almost makes me angry as a quiz master. Hold on, let me take a step with this Joey wrestling soda I have. No shit, it's a wrestler. Ryan Vulcan. That sounds like a luchador.

Vulcan is Gabriel Summers, brother of Cyclops and Havoc. He's an X-Man. All right. So we are 2-2 right now. And we have two questions left. Oh, three questions left. Sorry. Sean.

Greg. Zevia. Can you spell that, please? Z-E-V-I-A. Or maybe it's Zavia. What? Zevia or Zavia. That almost sounds familiar to me as a, like a, as a soda.

I'm going to say soda. Zavia and or Zavia is a Los Angeles-based company that produces zero-calorie soft drinks, organic tea, energy drinks, and mixers sweetened with stevia. Okay. Maybe that's where that was. Yeah, you know what? I think we have those up here. Oh.

All right, here we go. right on. Ryan? So am I ahead? You are ahead, 3-2. Ryan needs this one to stay alive. Red Fusion. He gets fucking Joey wrestling and I have Red Fusion which could very plausibly be any one

of them? Come on. I'm gonna just completely roll the dice here and say it's a luchador. I have no idea. Red Fusion was Dr. Pepper's soda released in 2002. it was its attempt to extend its stoda brand to new iterations, including Pepsi Blue.

Red Fusion is a Dr. Pepper soda drink. No recollection of this, but I believe you. Sean, to cover the puck line. Yeah. Phantom X. Did you say Phantom X or is there like a... Fanto mex. F-A-N-T-O-M-E-X.

Fantomex. I'm going to say Lucha. Phantom X is an escaped experiment from the weapons plus program. He is an X-M-M-A-M-S-Map. So you win the money line, but not the buckline. I like it with every one of these, you explain who it is, and that still doesn't tell us if it's a Lucha or an X-Men. All right, tiebreaker.

I had it ready. You might as well answer it. Closest to the T. What year was Crystal Pepsi released, Ryan? 1991. Sean? Yeah, I feel like he's right there. This is the...

I'm trying to... I'm going through my Van Halen discography for Wendy right now. I'm going to say later. But I think he's like right on it. It might be like 92. The answer was 1992. Really, really well. Really well done, though, boys, on that.

I don't think, I think I would have gone maybe a little bit later 90s, but the fucking Van Halen poll for the commercial, holy shit, that's brilliant. Right now. You may be a detective. Do you have a Basset Hound by any chance? Because this is some detective shit you're doing today. There you go.

Did you see, by the way, speaking of Sherlock Holmes, that the estate of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is suing Netflix over there, like Sherlock Holmes spin-off movie. Yes. Have you seen this? Have you heard about this? Yeah. I don't know why they're suing. I do know that Millie Bobby Brown from Stranger Things is playing like Sherlock's sister,

I think it is. That's right. And I think Henry Cavill is playing Sherlock. That's right. And the guy who was supposed to reboot the Pirates of the Caribbean series, but that movie was so bad that even though it made money, they didn't continue. that spin-off is Mycroft Holmes. And their mother is, I guess, played by Helena Bonham Carter, which is very weird,

because I feel like her and Henry Cavill aren't that far apart in age, but maybe they are. But anyway, point is the reason they are suing is because in the movie it depicts Sherlock Holmes as having emotions. And this is true. And there are only a handful of, like, canonical Sherlock Holmes stories in which he has emotions. And those are not yet in the public domain. And so they are suing Netflix over this. Like, Robert Danny Jr. has hardly any emotions in those movies. In any movie, really.

And Cumberbatch, you know, was also a blank slate for the most part. I had no idea. Yeah, I thought that was so fucking funny, where they were like, you tried to make the character slightly more interesting. We'll see you in court. Good stuff. All right, that's Puck Soup for this week. Thanks everybody for joining us.

An eventful fucking week since last episode, that's for sure. And it'll only get more interesting. Hopefully everything we talked about in the show doesn't become immaterial within like two hours of the podcast dropping, like my other podcast yesterday. You can read me on ESPN.com. I got a story, a column up today about the Golden Knights of Mark Andre Fleury. Earlier this week, I wrote about Miro Heiskinan, Kail McCar, and Quinn Hughes talking to Scotty Niedermeyer, about what are basically the sons of Niedermeier, as we're calling them in this generation of defensemen.

And you can listen to my other podcast, ESPN are nice where we have the lovely and talented Pete Blackburn and Anthony Stewart on this week. sign up for the Puck Soup Patreon also. We're going to do a bonus episode tomorrow. We're going to do a mailbag episode right after we're done recording this one. I have a newsletter on there. We're recording an episode of Stick to Sports this weekend. So there's a lot of content. And maybe one day, if you're really good, Greg will give you his Taco Bell take,

which at this point couldn't possibly disappoint anybody. Um, as somebody on the, by the way, Sean, something on the Patreon pointed out that they asked me if the Taco Bell article is the new Siddine's interview. Yes. On biscuits. Mm-hmm. Uh, that was J.B. asking that. Yeah. So.

And, and you laughed because, you know, you listened to biscuits, so you got the reference. I legitimately don't listen to any hockey podcast other than our own. That's the truth. I don't even listen to this one, so it's fine. I listen to this one to make sure that it actually, you know, worked technically. Not to say Katie doesn't do a great job. Just, you know, I'm paranoid about that shit.

I feel like if it didn't work, somebody might let us know. I don't know. They might not. Considering, like, every time a dog barks in my neighborhood, somebody's got to tweet me to let me know this. Oh, who's typing during the show? What are you doing? Oh.

The answer is always Greg, by the way. Well, that's because my fucking slack is on, and they expect they think they don't, they don't know I do this show. Oh, that's not true. They very much know I do the show. Anyway, Sean, go ahead and pimp your shit. Find me on The Athletic. I wrote a bunch of stuff this week. I don't remember what today's post is.

I've got my playoff hall of fame of players who didn't actually make the real Hall of Fame. So, chance to recognize NHL players who weren't necessary. superstars, but who really had either big playoff runs or extended playoff success in their careers. It's basically, like most of what I write, just an excuse to remember some guys. Did you get yelled at yet for not including Danny Breyer in your list? 100%. That's pretty much the entire comment section. That's the guy that I always think of. And of course, I read it and was like, ooh, he didn't say Danny Breyer. He's going to get in trouble.

And he's good. Good. You deserve it. You fucked up big time. And everybody should be mad at you. Yeah. Exactly. A bunch of Flyers fans and you mentions, right? Or is it Buffalo?

Sabers. Yeah. It's both. Actually. Sure. Makes sense. Two measured and not emotional fan bases. Yeah.

Chimbing in on your story. Between that and Canucks fans, like all through the middle of the week, it's been pretty awesome. If I could get any time-traveling Capitals fans from 2011, it could really pull off the dream. I know you got to go. We got to talk real quick about this, and I'll ask you about it, Sean. The reframing of the Canucks, 2011 team, who would they play the Bruins?

The reframing them as not the hated team, What the fuck is this about? I don't know. And I'll all say is this comes from, because me and Myrtle did the debate of, is there such thing as Canada's team, when there's one Canadian team left, should the rest of Canada get behind them, blah, blah, blah. And through that, because the last Canadian team obviously is a Canucks, we ended up talking about the 2011 team, which I stated what I thought was a basic fact, which is this is a team that. a lot of people hate it. And in fact, so many people hated that many people were cheering for the Bruins over them, even though that Bruins team was extremely unlikable in its own right.

And I heard two distinct types of feedback from Canucks fans. The first was that, no, actually, that's not true. People didn't dislike the 2011 team. and the main source of this seems to be a survey that was taken in Canada before the Stanley Cup final. So before the biting and before the Aaron Rome hit and all this, which I'm not sure why we're looking at that. And it wasn't of hockey fans. It was just like generic Canadians. Like, hey, do you like the Canucks?

And they're like, yeah, sure. So that apparently is the evidence that we're all having false memories about the Canucks not being liked. So that was half the feedback was you idiot actually know the team wasn't disliked. The other half of the feedback is I'm a Canucks fan and I will never forgive the rest of Canada for hating the 2011 Canucks and I will never cheer for any Canadian team, blah, blah, blah, blah. So my only request is maybe Canucks fans could just get together and figure out whether that team was hated and then come back to the rest of us and let us know because it's not fun getting yelled at like from two sides of the complete opposite argument. but yeah, no, it was it was really fun to spend the week hearing from Thomas Drance's followers

about it. That was great. Good chat. I believe the preferred nomenclature is acolytes. Sure. No, everybody hated it. The Canucks succeeded

at making a team from Boston the face in that match. All you need to remember is Alex Burroughs. That's it. Alex Burroughs. Maximum LaPierre. like Ryan Kessler, like all these guys. I'm a Lee fan.

In 2003, Sports Illustrated wrote an article that said that the Toronto Maple Leafs were the most hated team in all of sports. And I still like that team. I think some of the players on that team got bad raps. But I don't sit there years later feigning confusion over why anybody wouldn't like a team that was built around Tide Omi and Darcy Tucker and Shane Corson. Like, I get it. I'm not confused by this. and I'm not like trying to retroactively pretend that that team was popular. So anyways, it was a very weird take, but the overarching point is if you're a Canucks fan,

you shouldn't want anyone else jumping on your bandwagon in the first place. Your current team is a ton of fun and entertaining and worth cheering for. Exactly. Everybody should just cheer for whoever they want and not feel like any sort of patriotic duty. That's exactly right, except they are a candidate's team. All right, everybody. Thanks for listening to PuckSoup. Thanks for supporting the Patreon.

We're going to hop over and do the mailbag now. And we'll talk to you next week. Take care. See you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute.

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