Puck Soup - The Other Shoe

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Sean and Ryan talk about potential trades, injuries, the coaching carousel, and more.

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean Magnew from The Athletic. And folks, I feel like right now everybody in the NHL is just playing a waiting game. They're waiting for somebody else to make the first move and then they're going to make the move. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter if it's a coaching change.

Everybody, a little itchy trigger finger on that one. It doesn't matter if it's a trade, all that kind of stuff. Just waiting for that first domino and then. Yeah, you can't be the first one through the door. Yeah. No, that's it, right? Like in the world of, you know, whether it's business or any profession, we all know that whoever goes first is a huge disadvantage.

You definitely want to sit back, let everyone else establish, and then only when it's too late do you move in and make it. Yeah, what? Here's the perfect way to do it. wait for the other team to hire the coach you wanted to hire. That's it. And then you go, oh, I wanted to hire that guy. Yeah.

Oh. And then you let your friendly media know that you were right in on all these guys who just got traded. Probably second place on every one of them, which when you think about it. We, you know, we were just getting the assets together. We were in having active calls, all this. But anyway, the reason I bring this up is. you guys gotta kick those tires

man does anybody know is that one of those phrases does anybody know what that means anymore yeah it's to like make sure when you were buying tires like back in the old days

you would kick you would just absolutely you know like you were going 70 yard field goal right you would kick them to make sure they weren't yeah that's exactly right to make sure they weren't defective in some way now my thing is

you're putting these on the bottom of a car that's like probably 80,000 pounds of steel, right? Like these big 1950s James Dean killings cars, you're kicking the tires on those. I guess it makes sense. Like, if you kick a tire and it doesn't, like, hold up to a kick,

you don't want to be driving on that thing. That makes actual perfect sense. But also, like, how is it a situation where a guy kicking that tire could have made, like, told them the difference? Doesn't make sense. You go kick the tire, the tire explodes. You look at the salesman and he does like the, ah, you got me face.

Yeah, you have like your hair is blown straight back and your face is covered in soot, like daffy duck. I will tell you this. I think if you're a GM and you're about to make a big trade, you should be allowed to go and kick the player you're going to trade for. Like, Fitsy should be able to go and kick Quinn Hughes a couple of times. I think that would get these guys more active. Or do you kick the guy that you're trading away? Well, I think the other guy has to kick the guy they're trading away. Yeah, okay.

You just have to meet at like the geographic center of the two places. Like, you know, if you're Boston and Montreal making a trade, you just meet up in like Vermont somewhere, right? That's not a big deal. But you're going to go to like Iowa maybe if you're New Jersey and Vancouver? I think that's word. And, I mean, you don't, you don't even have to leave the airport, right? You just... No, well, you've got to find the part of the airport that's exactly equidistant between the two cities.

Yeah. You draw a big line down the middle of it, like I love Lucy. Okay. I'm making all kinds of contemporary references to start this one. And, you know, the guy's allowed to step on the line and then you can kick them as hard as you want. And if you still wants to get traded to you, that's great. So let's start with this, Sean. Do you want to talk about potential trades first or potential first coaches fired first?

Doesn't matter to me? You know what? Let's do the trades since we're... Trades it is. Yeah. Well, speaking of Fitsy, everybody's favorite guy. Good old Fitsy. Fitsy.

What a weird news cycle. that was. Or is. And we'll continue to be for the next two months. So people didn't hear, Quinn Hughes, I mean, the big news is Quinn Hughes talked about trade talks, but in doing so, he referred to New Jersey Devils GM, Tom Fitzgerald, as Fitsy, which a lot of us found very odd.

You're, you know, in theory, you're not supposed to have any contact at all with other teams' GMs. let alone. But wasn't it just that like our friend Fitsy worked on the Four Nations team with Quinn Hughes? It's not like they've never met before.

So there's that there's that. And then I feel like for the last day I've seen a steady stream of people insisting that if you call Tom Fitzgerald

or Mr. Fitzgerald, he will kill you. Oh really? And the last thing you will hear is as he as the light fades from your eyes is him saying you have to call me Fitsy. So apparently this is not something to worry about. So, okay, when I talk to coaches, right, in my capacity as a hockey reporter,

I feel fucking insolk, like other people in the hockey media have no problem referring to a Tom Fitzgerald as a Fitsy. Right? Yeah. I don't know these fucking. guys. You know what I'm saying? Like, I feel insane calling someone by their blank Z nickname. You know what I mean? Yes. And yet, everybody does it. Like, you know what? If you're Quinn Hughes, you're, feel free. You probably know Tom Fitzgerald from work, you know? But. Apparently, he does. And, like, I guess I know these guys from work as well, but it's a different thing. I feel like I'm at a remove. I feel like if you don't know somebody, like, on a somewhat personal level, you shouldn't be calling them by a nickname.

Yeah. And if you do, it just feels a little too familiar to me. Yeah. But we both agree that it is still not as bad as, like, Americans calling football coaches coach. That is humiliating. Yeah. That's up there with using the team hashtag when you're posting about the team you cover. as far as like

you're just fully indoctrinated here, man. Oh, you mean like you shouldn't use hashtag let's go best team ever? Yeah, isn't that weird? I get it. You're trying to get your shit

discovered by all the bots on the everything app. I understand. Yeah. But man, anytime I see that I'm just like, have some self-respect.

Anyway, that's a different story. So, yeah, New Jersey, their GM Fitsy, which I always call him. He is working the damn phones because Jack Hughes is hurt. They've lost, what is it, five games in a row now? I think so, yeah. They're three and seven in their last 10.

It's going badly. They are not in a playoff spot right now, but as we know, they are also one point out of a playoff spot, even though they're third on the outs right. Everybody in the east is one point out of last place and three points out of first place. Right. Yeah, the sabres are the only team where it's starting to look. Obviously, not the sabres.

I mean, I wasn't, it's not getting ridiculous here. Well, Florida and Ottawa are not doing so hot themselves, but yeah. Yeah, the Leafs are now two points out of first in the division. Like, didn't we disband this franchise like four days ago? Yeah. Yep. Okay. But anyway, so we all thought all along, okay, New Jersey's going to make a trade of some kind here. And now they're having the panic button kind of pushed for them, I think is what you might say.

And so they're picking up the damn phone. They're calling everybody they can. But with everybody in it, there's really only a few sellers. One of them is the Nashville Predators, and they have had conversations, apparently, about Stephen Stamco's. My question, this is a very simple one. Have you seen this guy play recently? Fitsy. I watched the highlights every night, so no.

Okay. Well, right. That's exactly right. And I understand, you know, from the national. Nashville point of view. These guys have no move clauses, and I don't know who gave those out, but whoever did it, that guy's in trouble. Probably. Probably my buddy Fitzdog.

But yeah, like, Stamco's is eight goals, three assists in 28 games. You can probably get that assist numbers up, but like, is he going to do a lot better than eight goals in 28 games for New Jersey? my suspicion is no but yeah I mean that's a classic you're betting on the change of scenery being yeah the key

right I wonder would that be obviously Nashville would have to eat a bunch of salary on that you would think yeah I wonder if this is this is this the sort of deal where you go like super heavy on the conditional picks well like I'm talking something that would rain

all the way from like if he scores 60 goals over the next over this season and next season, it's a first round pick and, you know, all. Are you allowed to do that still? Are you not? I know you can't do it for signing status. You can't say we'll give up a higher pick. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I thought you could still do performance-based.

I you don't see it very often for sure. No, you really don't. That's that's kind of the thing. Well, the other question I would have is like, this has been hammered by basically every insider this whole time. But like the devils are in a situation where they have like no cap flexibility because of all the injuries. And the NHL doesn't help you out with like giving you flexibility on that anymore. Right. And so, okay, they're trading for Stephen Stamco.

A, what are they giving up? Sounds like it would be a lot, in my opinion. And B, like, who, like, who are they shipping off this roster that the predators are like, oh, yeah, we take that guy back? You know what I mean? Like, that's Andre Pallot. Like, do you guys want Andre Pallat? And they're like, no. And you go, oh, okay, I guess, never mind then, goodbye.

You know, I, I'm a little confused. by this one for several reasons. They just don't have anybody where I'm like, oh yeah, the devils would want to give that guy up in exchange for, what is he, 37 now, Stephen Stamco's?

I don't view this as... I don't view this as the devil's giving up a ton. I view this as Nashville, A, getting out of a bad contract, although you're not getting out of it, really, if you're retaining, but getting out of some of it. And B, probably feeling like

they're doing a solid to a veteran guy who came over to chase a cop and it just hasn't worked. So I don't see this as being the devils having to give up. Well, it can't be, I just feel like from Nashville's point of view, they can't be sitting there going, you know, we'll take like a fourth round pick, get them out of here. Like, that's just a big, do you go like, oh, here's Shane LaChance. Like, I don't know. You know what I mean? Like, it's just Nico Dawes. Like, is that who you're giving up?

You got to give up somebody, I guess, is my point. And I don't know who it would be. Really, really a, really a weird one from both sides. There was also talk about Ryan O'Reilly, kind of being in that same boat. And it's like, that guy's, even that guy's like in the media saying he sucks. You know, like, why would you trade for him? He's obviously producing more than Stamco's contract. Is he?

I think it's another year or two, isn't it? Yeah, he's not expiring this year. I know that because he'd be, even though he's not very good anymore, he'd be expiring next year. Yeah, he'd be number one on every off-season free agent list. Yeah, and they're doing the thing of like, we know you don't have a no-movement clause, but we're pretending you do? Well, yeah, they said they would do that.

I wonder how. I wonder if that was. like, we said that last year, now we're into year two of being. Right. Yeah. I think O'Reilly would be a guy that, like, I'd be interested in him if I was a gym. Again, you're doing the whole, like, change of scenery. Any of these guys who are veteran winners, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, it's,

the predators are a tire fire, so let's, you know, somebody magically when they come into our system, they'll be, they'll be better. And like, honestly, O'Reilly hasn't been all that bad this year. But if you're letting him control his destination, A, if you're Barry Trots, you're tying a hand behind your back. And B, you're like, hey, do you want to go to New Jersey? He could just say, no, and then that's the end of it. And then you're stuck going like, well, would you take Stamco?

and we eat half the money or whatever. And by the way, that would be eating half the money for two seasons beyond this one. So I don't know why the predators would fucking do that. It's not like you're doing a solid for a guy. Are you doing a whatever, eight and a half million? And you know, whatever it is, like a $10 million favor for a guy? Yeah. And we should point out here, the new CBA that goes into a fairer.

next year does not allow for the double retention move. There's like a, it's like a 75 day or whatever it is gap between trades. So they couldn't, if you're wondering, like, could they do a double retention and get some other team involved? The answer is no, they can't because for some reason the NHLPA agreed to fast track that change, even though it doesn't, the CBA doesn't go into effect until next year. they did fast track the change to this year. So that's in effect already.

I hate the stupid fucking league, man. It's unbelievable. Anyway, the real thing the devils are probably going to do is trade for Quinn Hughes. We all agree. But here's the thing. I felt like if Quinn Hughes got moved, of course it would be the Devils. We're now at a stage where it sounds like, people are actually acknowledging that this could happen.

Not necessarily imminently, but the cone of denial has been cracked a little bit on this one. And yet it sounds like this is not just about the devils. This is other teams potentially. Right. Well, we'll get to that. But let's talk about it from the Canucks point of view first. They apparently sent an email last week.

that was like, we're kind of open for business. You got an offer come and talk to us. Yeah. You know? Which is always, again, I love when GMs send an email to the whole league that's like, I am now willing to do my job. Well, I think it is notable here because this is, we've talked about this a million times. This is a team that doesn't do this shit.

They don't open for business. They'll go, yeah, we might trade one guy, I guess. Now, again, to your point, if I'm a GM, I'm literally calling every, you know, I just tell every GM in the group chat or whatever, like, hey, anytime you have any trade, the idea of an untouchable thing does not exist to me. Right? Like, oh, you want Connor McDavid and he's 24 years old in this scenario? All right, make me an offer. And now I reserve the right to say no to all offers I receive, but make me the offer and let's find out, you know?

and like that's just not how the Canucks operate because of who owns the team and how he, you know, wants to operate it and all that kind of stuff. We got to, we got to make the $3 million per first round exit. And then that all helps because of we own real estate or what. I'm not totally sure. That's it. But like, yeah, I'm just saying I don't know like what, how. you go A to C on that one.

Do they own every restaurant in the arena area? I don't, you know what I mean? Like, that's what I don't get. Anyway. The idea that they are saying, you want Nils Hoaglander? Give us a call.

You want a Vander Kaine? And everybody's like, not really. Okay. But still give us a call, though, if you do. You know, that kind of thing. I think that is notable, I don't know that it definitely means like any of these trades are happening. Did you see the,

Dranth had a tweet, I think it was, last night saying that like they got smoked by the Red Wings on home ice and he was like, nobody's booing, nobody's doing anything. People are just like quietly walking out of the arena. Like it's, in the sense that this is even worse. worse than booing. Like, just nobody cares. Everybody showed up, they went, oh, yeah, we lost to Detroit. Of course we did.

And they just went home quietly. That's not right. No, I did see a picture of a guy. I don't know if this was, someone posted it last night. I don't know if this is from the most recent game or whatever of a guy. The classic thing, the paper bag on the head. And then on the back it said like, retort. Cool,

crossed out, rebuild, crossed out, sell the team. Okay. Yeah. That was circled or whatever. I know we've got all this modern technology and,

you know, everything. There's still nothing better than putting a bag over your head with writing on it and go into the game that way. That is so old school. Like, just the concept. I want to go and watch this team play,

but I'm so ashamed that anyone might know. So I'm going to put a paper bag over my head and just sit there. And as they pointed out on the excellent Canucks podcast, I hate this team. Like, they do listen to the fans when they start chanting fire blank. Like, they chanted fire Gillis, however many years ago, and the team almost immediately fired by Gillis, right? Like, this works. So if they can just get people to start chanting, sell the team instead of, as you say, the apathy of just like, yeah, we got our fucking ass kicked again, guess I'll go home.

You know, like they're showing up. They're watching the team. They're going, I guess I could get excited if they, like, scored a goal or something, but they're not going to. So, like, what do I care? Like, what they should do is not go to the games, right? Like, you want to talk. That's the apathy that, like, gets people. to notice things.

Going to the games and not cheering, they go, well, you gave us the fucking money. Mm-hmm. Sit on your hands all you want. Look at your fucking phone for all I care. Stay in the bathroom the whole game. But the problem is,

how does that, I mean, that, that convinces the owner to sell if you're lucky, but it also tells the owner that, oh man, we can't lose in this market.

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, you're... So we can't rebuild. We can't tear it. I see what you mean. I thought you meant like, we can't lose. Okay.

Yeah. I get it. I guess that's true. Like I say, like, it's not that, you know, again, throw jerseys on the ice. It would be, I think, what the people who want them to actually rebuild would advocate for. You know what I mean? Like, be loud in your dissatisfaction. Mm-hmm.

And, you know. I will get, and this is, Skywriters, billboards, you know, all that shit. That's the way to. When you go to pull your jersey off to throw it on the ice,

be careful you don't knock the paper bag off your head. Because then people will see your face and it's, that's right. It's a whole mess. Maybe, I'm just saying maybe stock in the ego waffle corporation could go up. That's all. Could be.

It could be time. Anyway, now let's talk about Quinn. Hues potential destinations because that's what we're all really here for, right? Like, there are a bunch of guys on this team that you maybe would want to trade your Pattersons or your Bessors or whoever. They all have no move clauses. Connor Garland's another one that we've talked about recently.

Philip Roanick is yet another that has a full no move. God, there are so many guys with full no moves on this team. That's unbelievable. Quinn Hughes is not among them, though. And he would probably be one of the most valuable, whatever you want to say, trade pieces in recent memory. Absolutely, yeah. So obviously everybody's making the New Jersey connection, including on the record publicly, the president of hockey operations for the Vancouver Canucks. He's like, oh, yeah, that guy wants to go to New Jersey.

And then Quinn Hughes again says Fitsy And everybody's like He wants to go to New Jersey Yeah I know that Everybody knows that I don't know why this is scaring you You know So

What do you What do you think of this From the New Jersey Vancouver perspective So I mean from the Vancouver perspective Yes I mean we can all see

I won't see the writing on the wall, but we can see the warning signs on the dashboard. Sure. That Quinn Hughes might want to go to New Jersey and relatedly may also just be interested in being somewhere other than Vancouver. And it may also be to the benefit of the Canucks to trade an asset who would, in theory, carry incredible value. I find it very interesting from the devil's perspective

because I've seen several people, including our buddy Gerg from ESPN, who have made the argument that why would the devils go out and give up a ton to get this guy now when you could get him for nothing in free agency a year and a half from now? Right. And that's a pretty good, it's a pretty good argument. Now, the flip side of it is, first of all, if you get them for nothing a year and a half from now, that's still a year and a half of the Jack Hughes era that you just, not kissed away because it's not like the devils can't win in the meantime.

But a year and a half is a long time. It is. It is. It certainly is. Right? I mean, like, teams kind of go through like, you know, six or eight or maybe ten years. year windows of like, you know, defining an era. So a year and a half is a big chunk.

And then the other piece of it is do they trade them somewhere else? And, you know, I'll use Detroit as an example because they're the team that's... Detroit is the other team that, yeah. And it makes a lot of sense. Detroit's got a ton of young, good young players assets. And desperately kind of needs to take that step forward. So, you know, if you're New Jersey, what if Detroit pays up to get him, and he loves it in Detroit? And he signs an extension in Detroit.

Well, now you've, you know, because you didn't want to pay a fair price for something, now it's not available anymore. And you've lost your chance at getting it at all. And then if you want to take it even further, there's the other piece of this, which is, hey, if I can trade for Quinnian, news and i can convince him to sign long term now does the script get flipped and now it's all lies on jack hughes whose contract expires in you know he's still got a few years to go but am i now looking at okay when when his contract expires now he wants to come play for me to be with his brother not the other way around i know luke hughes is in it too which is complicates it even more but i don't know there there's like a lot of different

pieces here. And there's, there's a part of me that says if I'm New Jersey, you know, if I'm Fitsy, I, that's his name. Don't laugh. If I'm the Fitz God, I'm not going to just sit this one out. I want to jump in there. And, you know, if, if something is where, if there, if, if, if, if I want to buy a car, I can sit there and go, you know, in a year and a half, I could get it cheaper. I could get it for nothing, but I need a car now. And also, there's only one car out there. And if someone beats me to it, I'm not going to get it now. Right. Maybe it's just worth it to walk on on the lot and say, what's a fair price? Let's figure this out now rather than getting cute on threading the needle to 2007. Yeah, I agree with that aspect of it, especially because, again, like,

Maybe you could have made that argument a month ago or whatever. I don't think you can make that argument now. Because if we're saying the devils are desperate enough to trade for Stephen Stamcoast or Ryan O'Reilly or whoever, you know who's even better than those guys is the guy that you already fucking want and have been connected to for years in like the rumor mill. So just like make that trade. Like, I'm going to kind of believe you here when you say, Sean, that, like, it doesn't cost a lot to get Stephen Stancoaster, Ryan O'Reilly. I kind of think it still does. And so, but, like, even going with it, like, let's say it's a, it's a fourth-round pick and a, and a, a prospect to get one of those guys, right?

You know what? Let's bump it up to two first. I don't give a fuck. What do the devils need another pick for right now? You know what I mean? they should be in going for it mode. Now, it doesn't help that, like, their best player can't stay healthy, right?

But, like, Quinn Hughes, provided he can stay healthy, is the insurance against the team goes to absolute shit when Jack Hughes is injured. Right? Like, that, Quinn Hughes, we've seen it before. Quinn Hughes is that much of a difference maker. When he's on the ice, the Canucks look like a competent to great NHL team.

When he's off the ice, they look like the fucking Vancouver Canucks. You know what I'm saying? And if you can have that when Jack Hughes is hurt, think about how good it is when Jack Hughes is not hurt. For the three months a year, that's the case. You know what I'm saying?

That's right. So this all makes sense to me. Now, here's the thing that, because I saw Drans also, add an article like here's why the Canucks have more bargaining power in this than you think. And it is the Detroit thing. Hey, guess where Quinn Hughes grew up and stuff and still like hangs out all summer? It's Michigan. Michigan, that's where Detroit is. You know, like they're doing that thing, which is why, of course, the Toronto Maple Leaf sign every free agent that hits the market. But like, again, I'm just saying this is what Jim, Jim Rutherford said a year and a half ago or whatever.

This guy wants to go to New Jersey. And the problem with saying like, well, Detroit's out there too. Detroit could trade for him for sure. But then Queen Hughes goes, well, I'm not fucking signing with you guys. What's signing with the New Jersey Devils where my brothers are? Oh, well, then I guess that takes all the Detroit's bargaining power away. They can trade for him, and then he has to play there for another year and a half or whatever, in theory. But if he says, I'm not going to sign there, then they're going to go, oh, I guess we're not going to trade for you then.

That's all. You know what I mean? Like, that's where I'm kind of coming at it from. It's like, yeah, I guess in theory, Detroit's out there, and they should be interested. Every team in the league should be interested in acquiring Quinn Hughes. I still think there's, maybe I'm wrong. I still think there's only one team he's interested in for the long term. And it is, it's not the Detroit Red Wings.

Or the Montreal Canadiens, but if that's the case. It's like go down the list. If that's the, I just wonder to what degree, right? Like if you sat Quinn Hughes down, not even hook him up to a lie detector. Like, he sits down across from Steve Iserman. and Steve Eisenman looks at me and says, what's the deal? Does Queen Hughes say, look, man,

there is no world where I'm not a New Jersey devil two years from now. If you trade for me right now, I will go. I'll play my bag off for a year and a half, but I am going to go to New Jersey, and I'm going to play with my brother. Or is he saying something more along the lines of, hey, right now New Jersey is my preference. That's where I kind of see myself.

Now, if I went somewhere else, could I decide I really liked it there in a year and a half, especially if I do some winning? Yeah, maybe. Like, what if the Red Wings trade for Quinn Hughes and they end up being the team that comes out of a very winnable Atlantic division right now? They go to the conference final with Quinn Hughes and Mo Cider on the same blue line? You kidding me? They go to the conference final. Meanwhile, New Jersey gets knocked out in the first round again. You tell me at that point, when it's time to start talking extension on July 1st,

Quinn Hughes isn't looking at it going, I really want to go to New Jersey? They got Jake Allen as the goalie and, you know, all this other. I don't know, man. Maybe I want to sit down with Izi over here and get this done. and then Jack can come, Jack and Luke can come to me. I don't know. If you're a GM, like, this is the way I think a lot of GMs think, right?

They're not, like, optimistically focused on the best case all the time, but it's like that competitor in them is like, no, if we do this, this will be the move that makes us winners, and players like Queen News want to play for winners, and that's us with that little voice in the back of your head that says, or it's not, in which case I'm getting. fired anyways, so who cares? Yeah.

No, like I'd say, I just think, like, I don't think it's impossible that, that Quinn Hughes ends up in Detroit. I just think that the most likely outcome is New Jersey. And I don't know. To me, again, I'm just like, why, why on earth would Jim Rutherford have said it out loud if it wasn't New Jersey the whole time, you know? So that's just kind of my thinking. Again, things can change.

The Red Wings are decent this. year, you know, I don't see them as particularly more likely to do something in the playoffs than the devils, even though, you know, the devils aren't in the playoffs spot right now. So I guess we'll have to see, but the Red Wings currently have the same record as the New York Islanders, which is somehow third best in the Eastern Conference. you know and like I think we've said it before like I just

that to me means you can't put stock in basically anything that's happened in the first 30 games of the season is like oh yeah no no no I'll put it this way and then we'll take a break after this but if you came to me and you said oh the 30 games into the season

the Red Wings and the Islanders they'll have the same record I'd go okay and that that means they're bad, right? And it's like, no, it means they're both fourth in the Eastern Conference. Well, that doesn't sound real to me. I'm sorry. Yeah. But they are still bad. I've given a, I, I know longer look at the Eastern standings. But it, except to say that there are 16 GMs, maybe 15, we don't know, Kevin Adams might be trapped in a closet somewhere, you know, like he's, he's out, he's out back pulling on the door

that says push. But the other 15 GMs are like, My team can win this conference this year. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, and they're not wrong to think that. But, you know, I guess what I would compare it to is like back when the Lakers in like the 2000, 2001, 2002 era, like the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, there was a team that got to go to the Eastern Conference final and then win it for, and they were playing for the right to get absolutely fucking nuked by Shaq and Kobe. You know what I mean?

And that kind of feels like what's happening here. Like, yeah, okay, you guys got like your own little cute conference out there in the east. Okay, that's great. We're the Western Conference. We're all killers. Yep. So that's kind of where I'm at with it. And a lot of these GMs in the East are going, all right, man.

If I make the finals and lose, that's a pretty good year for me. Sure. Yeah, I get it. But there's a reason nobody talks about, like, the New Jersey Nets from that era too glowingly. You know? Fair. It's just like, yeah. Hey, they went to the NBA finals out once or twice.

How'd that go for them? Let's not get into that, you know? Anyway, let's take a break. We'll come back and we'll talk about more trade stuff and then some coaches stuff and other news and notes. All right, we're back. We got more trades that. may or may not happen. The other night, what was it, Friday night, I think?

A long and kind of sad hug between the two beautiful Oilers goalies, Stu Skinner, and what's the other guy's name? Calvin Pickard. They had a nice long hug, and it felt like, oh, that's it. They're trained one of the goalies, we're doing it, and then nothing happened. Yeah. as there were reports flying around that a deal was done

that turned out to be fake and oh I didn't even see about this yeah some well not some a podcast decided to try to do the insider thing and it was call her daddy did not

it did not go well nominated that's right uh it didn't it didn't go great for them and uh I believe they have since like apologized and gone on hiatus

but. Oh, that sounds like a hawk to a move then. A little bit, yeah, they dropped a meme coin and then got out. So, yeah. So what it could be. Tristan Jari is is seeming like the guy that it may or may not be, but kind of much like the devils, the oilers are like, we really need you to take back some salary. And the penguins are like, well, we're not retaining on Tristan Jari.

I'll tell you that much for sure. Right. And so the oilers are like, fuck, I don't know what that's going to do for us then. Do the oilers have any expiring deals? Because that's the way to do. Yeah, of course it is. You move the guy, like if I'm Pittsburgh, I'll take a guy for one year. I was already budgeted to pay Tristan Jari his $5 million.

Give me somebody who's not very good for $5 million. for one year. Yeah. So, okay, here, here's the list of guys one year. Adam Henrique, full no move. Sorry. Curtis Lazar, making less than a million dollars. Casbury, Capitan, 1.3, and he's hurt.

Yeah, and the penguins have done that. Yeah, that's a song and dance they're probably all set with. Jack Roslavik, 1.5, partial, no trade. four-team trade list that he would go to. Now, maybe the Penguins are on that list. I don't know. Four-team list?

Four-team list? I don't think I've ever heard of a list that was that that large without being just a full no move. Okay. And David Tomasek, where that is?

Probably a guy that doesn't matter very much. And then for defensemen, you got Ty Emerson and Brett Kulak. What's Kulag, me, man? 275. Yeah. So short answer, not really. There's not. Now, wait a second, though.

Okay. Both goalies are also on expiring contracts. There it is. Do you think anybody wants to trade for those guys? I don't think anyone does, but I think most goalie. goalie trades involve a goalie on both sides. Like, I think it's reasonable to think that the penguins... They would take Pickard back or wrong, for sure.

You'd probably rather take Pickard because, like, the Penguins are... I don't think the Penguins are all set in goal, but I don't think they want to add Stuart Skinner to the mix versus Picker. You could just send him to the H.L. And he's your third veteran option. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's like She loves hasn't been bad for them Or anything

And it hasn't been particularly good either Um But like if you're trading jari You can't And because here's the thing Penguins are still Kind of in it Kind of you know

They're they're occupying a playoff spot right now And in fact By points percentage They have the third best record in the east Now that I say that Um So you don't trade Jari for Pickard and go, and now our goalies are Artur Cee loves and Calvin Pickard.

By the way, book your, book your playoff tickets now. You know, I don't think anybody would want to do that. So it's very tricky for the, for the penguins. Like, the reason to trade Tristan Jari is to get out from under the last two and a half years of the Tristan Jari contract. Yeah. Right? Obviously. But because they're good this year, good as in quotes,

they also can't be like, we'll take whatever dog shit in a flaming bag you want to send back to a. You know what I mean? Like, they can't do that because they're in a playoff spot and it's maybe, you know, the last ride for Sid and Gino and Chris and the whole, whole crew, Eric. So I don't know what the penguins do with all this,

especially if they're like, we're not retaining on Jari, which they shouldn't, quite frankly. I don't know how this all works. It's tough, because it's like, it's one of those things where at the beginning of a season, you're like, boy, it'd be great if we could trade this guy. Oh, I hope he plays well enough that we can trade him.

And then he does, and you go, well, we can't trade him now. It's playing so well. With the extra complication of the Sidney Crosby. factor. Here's my question, from the other side of it, is this good enough for the Oilers? Is this an actual improvement? Considering you probably get one swing at this? I think they are probably saying to themselves, we still believe in Stuart Skinner. Okay. I'm not convinced that that should be what they're saying out loud, but I think that's what they would say their take on all of it is.

is like if we have a skinner jarring battery, we can't lose. And it's like, well, I mean, here's the other thing, though. The oilers are a little bit hot right now, a little bit. They, you know, last 10, they're 5, 4, and 1. That's actually not great. I lied. But it's better than what they were, and they're in a playoff spot right now, kind of. By points, percentage, they are.

So, like, they can say Skinner in his last five starts is 915. And they played Florida, Dallas, Seattle, Minnesota, and Winnipeg in that stretch. On paper, that's actually not an easy stretch, right? Mm-hmm. And so he's 915 with a 3 and 2 record. They're going, if we can keep him at 9, 10 or so, and winning 60% of the points available to us will take it. And if we can add Jari to that, that's just the extra insurance, blah, blah, blah.

I get why they would... Let's put it this way. The fact that Jari is signed for an additional two years beyond this one, I think is what would be enticing to them. Insofar as we know that this guy can like, you know, he's not going to be in theory he's not going to be as bad as Stuart Skinner sometimes is right and you know I think last year's penguins would say what was what was his like save percentage on the first shot of the game last year right it wasn't good you know so obviously but like again the oilers are in the business of talking themselves into this bad goal he is actually good and here's why I mean Justin Jari was in the minor leagues

You don't have to tell me I think it's stupid Not that long ago Like this is just Yeah This is wild to me Like okay But I think that's just how desperate it's gotten

Like what's Calvin Pickard's safe percentage right now Is it still in like the 860s or whatever You know like It's bad man Yeah No I Sean It would have to rise nine points to be in the 860s

he wishes he aspires he that's literally true yes he's like fuck man if I could get an extra save or two I'd get up around like 661 862 so like yeah obviously Tristan Jari is like not good or whatever but he's not

the worst goalie in recent memory yeah but he's who by the way has started 10 of the Oilers fucking 29 games but he's also I'm sorry eight two more years at a rate of pay that implies that he's good. Sean, I don't know if you heard, brother.

The fucking cap's going up, man. Ah, okay. That's good. I hadn't heard that. I will readjust my expectations and it's all going to be fine. Yeah, it's no problem for them. I guess my thing is, they got to do something because this isn't working.

I don't know how much better it's going to work with Jari or, you know, Jari equivalent goaltender. But I am going to very confidently say I'll eat my damn hat if I'm wrong about this one.

Tristan Jari isn't coming in at 8.51 over a long enough timeline. No matter how bad I think he is. Let me just say this. If you're the Oilers and you're willing to roll the dice on Tristan Jari at

what's he make five point something 5375 for multiple years after this one two years after two years after two years after this one two full years which for Stan Bowman might as well be 10 years because if it doesn't work

like you're you're planting your flag on this one it's the full Connor McDavid it's the entire coming to an end yes there is no after Connor McDavid right now not if you're Stan Bowman that's for not if you're Stan Bowman

and not if you don't win. So if you're willing to say Jari's the guy, why wouldn't you just call the Predators and ask about UC Saros instead? A guy with a far, far better track record. Absolutely. Who is signed at a higher rate, but not, you know,

it's another two million. That's not nothing, especially during the season, but you can figure that out. He's signed for like seven years, but who cares, seven years is the same. as two years for this team.

Yeah. That's true. Pay a little bit more and get something that has a decent chance to be better and has a non-zero chance to be like, like UC Saros was one of the best goalies in the league for a four-year stretch up until a couple years ago when the Predators started to stink. And yeah, it's chicken and egg who's causing the problem. Mm-hmm. I tell you, as an oilers fan, I'm a hell of a lot more excited if I wake up tomorrow to a

Bucci Soros trade than a Tristan Jari trade. Yeah, I think that's a reasonable statement to make for sure, yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, you know, again, if you're the Oilers and you're even talking about, like, you know, Tristan Jari would be a pretty good upgrade for us, like, sell the fucking team, man. Like, I don't know what to tell you. what I'm saying?

Like, I, it seems like you're in really deep shit if you're going, I think Tristan Jari, like, we could get him back on track. Could you? You, you, the Edmontoon Oilers, you could. All right, man. I'll just throw out the other, because if people didn't see it, I wrote a piece last week where I was like, look, here's six options for the Oilers in net, and they get increasingly unrealistic and stupid.

and I think number four out of the six, I'm just going to throw it out there. If the Florida Panthers fall out of playoff contention and the Oilers still need a goalie, is there not a Sergey Bobrovsky conversation to be had? I think he's staying in Florida. On an expiring deal, he can come back to Florida.

Yeah. The guy who beat you twice. Yep, yep, yep. Do you go and say, yeah. Now, how do they fit 10 million in the new cap world of playoff rosters? Very tough. I know. But that conversation has to happen, right?

In theory, yeah. I mean, again, like, if this is not how any NHL GMs work, but I'm literally just like, who's your HL starter? We'll fucking take them. What do you want for them? You know, like Mike DiPiatro, Nico Dawes, like go down the fucking list. Like, do you have an AHL guy I've heard of?

What do you want for him? First round pick sounds good. What do I give a fuck about a first round pick at this point? If I'm Stan Bowman, you know? They don't even have theirs this year. That's true. You're right about that. I forgot.

Conditionally, but, you know. Well, I was just spitballing, but you see what I'm saying. Like, what do you want for your HL goalie? We'll take him. I think that's like a thing I would be doing personally. But I'm not an NHLGM. That sitting there a month into the season with a guy who's played like a third of our games with an 851 save percentage going,

I don't know if I can break these guys up. Nobody could have seen this coming, man. There is no, there's no way. It's not even that. It's not even that. It's the, it's that report from a week or two ago where the players were like, No, we have to keep pickered. I'd have been like, shut the fuck up.

We can't do it. His same percentage is in the 850s, man. If it was the 870s, I would listen to this shit. We're talking 851. Are you fucking kidding me? I don't care how much you like this guy. You could tell me this guy's Pope Leo the 3rd. I'd be like, yeah, okay, sure.

I don't fucking care. Can he stop a puck? And the answer's no. He can stop the puck as well as the current Pope Leo. What the fuck are we doing? Anyway. That was a good rant. I like how you brought the Pope into it.

Multiple popes. Well, like, he's a good guy. We don't want to see him go. I don't care how good he is. He's walking little old ladies across the street and saving kittens out of trees on the way to every single game. And I'm going, his save percentage is 851. And it is, we've said this before. That's a same percentage that gets your ass sent to the fucking, like, Sweden leagues in 1986, 851.

There's not a GM in the world who would put up with that number in any era of hockey, ever. But Stan Bowman's like, well, if the guys like him, I mean, what are you doing? I thought you guys wanted to win a Stanley Cup. now, man. Power of friendship. Pretty fucking cool. Anyway, I'm listening to 32 thoughts yesterday, and they're like, hey, uh, Phil Dono needs a change of scenery, and I'm like,

Phil Dono's still in the league? Is that true? And they go, well, I mean, technically. Yeah. It's going bad for old Phil Dono. He's playing under 16 and a half minutes a night, five assists, zero goals in 29 games. I don't know that a change of scenery is getting it done, you know?

Well, yeah, it's, and it's, this is that thing where it's like, you're not a two-way center if you're, if you're terrible offensively. Terrible might be strong, but certainly not. No, he has zero goals and five assists in 29 games. I think, I think you are safe to say terrible at that point, 30 games into the year, you know. One thing I'd find interesting about his name coming up is it was always interesting that he wound up in L.A. Because they already had Copatar. So it was like, you'd now have two very good defensive centers, like Selky conversation guys. And now it sounds like they might not have any.

You want to hear something crazy? This is real. Phil Donno. No goals, five assists, as I said. expected goals 4 percentage at 5 on 5 47.75 everything else

a little above 50 except his goals 4 percentage which is almost 58 they're scoring almost 58% of the goals when he's on the this is like the lowest event

hockey you could possibly imagine when Philtono is out there how could a guy with no points 1.86 goals 4 per 60 when he's out there. 1.37 goals against per 6. He's just the human rain delay. You just send him out there. 942 on ice save percentage for Phil to know.

You know, here's what it boils down to. If he wasn't making the kind of money he's making, and this is what you were getting out of your shutdown center, you'd go, well, I guess I wish he had one goal. But I can't. complain too much if he's just grinding everything to an absolute, like, halt. So, you know, hey, look, I think there, you know, he might have something more to give here, obviously.

I don't think you're allowed to be in the NHL and have less to give than this. Yes. Okay. But, like, who's trading for that? New Jersey Devils are like, us, please, we really need a center right now. How much does he have left on that? contract. Is he...

I think it's another two years... This year and another one at 5.5. Yeah, and trade protection. Yeah, and he's 33. So, yeah, I would... I guess 32. I would...

Yeah, how dare you? I would be putting the word out that he needs a change of scenery, too. He won't be 33 until February, sir. I apologize. Thank you. So, yeah. Phil Dono. What a player. Then there's this other stuff with potential trades is a bunch of injuries have happened in the last little while here.

Tyler Sagan, ACL, season over, it looks like. That sucks for him. Yes, it does. Not good for the stars either, but for him in particular, that's really bad. Because... Go ahead. His knee not in good shape already. Yeah.

And now he has a season injury. Absolutely. Season ending injury. Now, as far as it being bad news for the stars, though, if it's season ending, remember the new rules. Yep. If they check the box that says season ending, that means two things. A, he cannot play again this season. No matter if he recovers quickly or whatever happens, can't do it.

But as soon as they check that box, that freeze. up all of his salary. All of his salary. That's right. To which we say, Quinn Hughes, come on down to beautiful Texas. I don't know if you know this. We don't have state taxes. Betty does know that.

No NHL players actually know that. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. So that's bad for them. The guy who wins the GM of the year every year might suddenly have an extra 9 million in cap space to play. with, so. Not 9 million.

9.85. Well, I guess it's pro-rated. But, yeah. And then they can do it like retroactive to winning first one on LTIR. Because there's like a whole like medical process you have to go through to get. They can't, what I'm saying is the NHL can't just take your word forward of like. Yeah, you can. Oh, yeah, this guy's out for the year.

You can't just be like, yeah. Hey, man. You know who else is? It's a Vander Cain. Isn't that wild? Anyway, have a good one. Some other recent injury news here. Ryan Leonard out indefinitely.

Capitals playing really good hockey lately. Winning a lot of games, not the news they were looking for. Nope. Logan Cooley out indefinitely. Utah don't look up how they're doing lately. No. And don't look up the injury because that was a,

wasn't a gruesome one. Like it wasn't, you know, there wasn't bone sticking out of the leg, but it was like... You saw it and you were like... That's not supposed to happen. I think that guy's out indefinitely. Yeah.

It was my immediate reaction. So maybe that makes Utah a little more motivated to do something. Who knows? Jack Roslovick is out until Christmas. Jake Wallman is week to week up in oil or country. So maybe that motivates them to make a trade even faster. who knows. And then all this stuff, I don't think this had happened.

Obviously, the injury had happened to Charlie McAvoy. But I don't think we had all the grisly details of what was going on with him when we lasted the show. So basically his jaw was wired shut and he lost 20 pounds because he couldn't eat solid food. That's wild. Like a professional athlete Because it's not like You know He's a big boy to be fair

But if I get my jaw wired shut Yeah maybe I'm just sitting here Having soup and diet coke Because I'm lazy Like he's trying to get as many calories into him as he can And to still lose 20 pounds Is that's nasty Apparently he's already put 10 back on though

I could do that part Here's the thing Could you put on 10 pounds in like two weeks? I don't know if you could. Like the amount of stuff that he's got to be eating at this point. 10 pounds is a fucking lot. Again, he's huge. He's like whatever,

6, 4, 2.10. So like, as a percentage of his body weight, 10 pounds really isn't that much. But he's got to be eating a fucking shitload to catch up. And that's what I want to know. Anytime they talk about like, oh, the Rock eats 14 pounds of salmon every day or whatever the fuck. You know what I mean? Like, I want to know what Charlie, they said, hey, Charlie McIvoy put on 10 pounds in two weeks or whatever it is. How is the follow-up not, are you going to McDonald's every meal dog?

Like, what are you doing to do that? That's crazy. He shows up and it's just 10 pounds, all gut. All guy. He still hasn't put on any muscle at all. I got to tell you, man. We got to get back to NHL players. There are some of them that are just like really kind of out of shape.

Yeah. We got to get back. There's one. We need more than one. I say this all the time. The best look to me that you can have in professional wrestling is you're a big fat guy. Mm-hmm. You're going to tell me Vader's not the coolest wrestler of all time?

Get a grip. The Rock's eating 14 pounds of salmon. Vader's eating 14 pounds of steak. You know what I mean? Just hear me out. What if we got a sumo wrestler and put him in goal? Wait a second. How's nobody ever thought of this?

Crazy, right? All right, let's do coaching stuff now. Last week, I think, like, right at the end of the show, I got the classic email from Jimmy Shapiro. Here are the odds for the first coach fired. And I said, oh, I'll file that away for next week. Great, perfect for me. And then there were little rumors.

that Peter DeBoer was circling a job or two in the NHL, the Los Angeles Kings refuted that he was around it for them, which makes sense because, like, they're not horrible or anything, you know? Yeah, I was a little surprised at that because Jim Hiller was my preseason pick to be the first coach fired. But they've been better. Now, they're fake 500. they're like one of these teams where they lose more than they win.

But yeah, that was kind of an odd one that the GM would come out and be like, no, we like our coach. He's fine. Well, I think, I think, I think it was Pierre LeBron asked Ken Holland. Mm-hmm. And so Ken Holland was like, no truth to it. Okay. But this is, these are the, well, I'm not going to get into like the three to two or

whatever, but currently the favorite for first coach fired is Ryan Huska in Calgary, which is interesting to me because obviously the flames aren't good. But like, are we sitting here going, I can't believe the flames aren't good? Oh, and also they're like, they've gone on a hot streak since I got this email. So maybe that changes things. But how are all newly re-signed Craig Conroy and all that? Like how are all those guys looking at this team and going, the coach is the problem?

The problem is the roster stinks. And you knew that. Yeah. They were a 96 point team last year. And typically, you go from 96 to potentially dead last. You're going to be on a hot seat. But yeah, I got to say, like a lot of this list is, to me, just looks like finding the bottom of the standings and going.

And all right. There were a couple interesting ones, though. So next up was Andrew Brunette, a guy that his GM keeps going. I'm not fucking firing this guy. Stop asking. Yeah. And everybody's like, have you seen you guys play? Now, you're the GM of the team.

Have you watched them recently? Seems like this coach doesn't have a lot of answers. And maybe the GM is also saying, right, but like this roster stinks. I did a bad job. And guess what? on fire and meat. It's, again, like, they have a coach as GM.

And that coach's mindset, I think it's really interesting to see it in practice. Right? I'm sure every coach is like, yeah, man, we're the scapegoats, we get fired, doesn't change anything. It's just something GMs do. And all right, you're the GM now.

What would you do? For real. Sure. Apparently, actually, Barry Trotz is sticking to it for now. Some would say he practices what he preaches. Yeah. So yeah, next up is Lindy Ruff in Buffalo.

Makes sense. I mean, it does and it does it because again, the team sucks, but also like, I don't know if you guys are aware of this. I don't think Buffalo wants to like pay two coaches. We're going to pay you not to coach us. And also this other guy to coach us.

They don't work like that. No, that's tough. Also, I don't think anyone right now is lining up to get the Sabres. Like, I don't think Pete DeBore is memorizing the Buffalo area codes and just... You say that? I'm got... Hold on, I got to do some quick... There's only 32 of these damn jobs.

No. Yeah. It's got to be more than that. Nope. Wait, hold on. Let me do the main one. See, so far. Carrey the two.

Yeah, no. It's only 32 of them. That's low. So that's why. Pete DeBore picking up the phone. Yes, Mr. Pagula. You know, we were talking about when they call coaches coach, when people call owners like Mr. so-and-so.

Yeah. So much worse. Oh. Have some self-respect. Mm-hmm. If they're not signing your paycheck. And frankly, even if they are. I stopped calling people Mr.

when I got out of fucking high school dog. You know what I'm saying? Yep. They make you say, we had a teacher when I was in high school that, like, was like, you don't have to call me Mr. So on, so you can call me by like a hockey style nickname version of that. And so we did, because he was one of these like,

I'm the cool teacher. I'm like 25. Yeah. And he was cool. We all liked him. I'm not saying he wasn't. But, uh, apparently at some point

like one of the teachers in his department pulled him aside and was like we can't have this big dog this isn't going to fly they start calling you so and so why are the kids all calling you fintzy all the time I don't know

yeah like if they if they if they don't call you Mr. Fitzgerald the whole system breaks down so this fits he's got to stop is like literally a conversation that he told us happened. He was like, listen, you can't call me Fancy anymore. They said, I'm going to make you call me Mr. Fitzgerald. Anyway, point is, all this Mr. Pagoolishit, you're a geek if you do this, full stop.

Yep. Next up on the list is Patrick Waugh. This one I was surprised by. This one feels like a remnant of the offseason, right? Because the islanders are playing well. And to be clear, I got this all week ago. Last December 2nd. Some of the names on here have already changed. It feels like as far as where they'd be now. Yeah.

But like Patrick Waugh made a lot of sense heading into the season. Of course. Who did not hire you. And also it's Patrick Waugh. And the she'll suck. And there's a good chance that he'll try to knife you in the back and take your job at some point. So. But I mean, I can't see it with.

No. How well the, now, I've, maybe there are one five-game losing streak away, but I don't see it. I am, of course, 100% with you. Just to rapid fire here, Chris Novelock, yep, sure. Craig Barubei, yep, sure. Jim Hiller, the aforementioned, yep, sure.

Here's an interesting one, Scott Arneal. Shouldn't have let the MVP get hurt, buddy. fucking huge mistake. Forgot to tell them. Hey man, don't get hurt. Forget to go in. Flexible. Should have gone into the settings and turned off injuries.

I mean, they weren't, you know, again, like, I guess it's not really novel to be like, hey, the reason the Jets were any good this year is Connor Hellebuck. Oh, you mean the MVP from last year? Who's won two straight Veznas? Yeah, I guess that makes sense. But with, you know, player departures over the last couple of, a couple of years and blah, blah, blah. Maybe it was always trending this way.

But, again, Brad for living, or not Brad for Living, Kevin Shevoldeoff is going to look at it and go, in my opinion, this is somebody else's fault. And I, you know, again, like you wouldn't have going into the season said, Scott Arneal has some, like, decent chance at this point of being the first coach fired. but now with the benefit of 30 games of hockey, I don't know that, I'll put it this way. If he is the first coach fired,

it would make more sense to me than any of the, however many guys I already mentioned, that are ahead of him on these odds. Certainly a big chunk of them, yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this, all right? The Jets are very much one of those teams that promote from within.

I imagine if Scott would nail got fired. I don't know their situation as far as assistants or AHL guys, but I would imagine that's the answer. Do you even pick up the phone and talk to Pete DeBore if you're Winnipeg? Yeah, I certainly do. The reason I'm saying this, he's a great coach, but how did he leave Dallas? Throwing his star American goalie under the bus.

is there like do you even what does Connor hellabuck look like when Pete DeBore walks into that room I don't know I wonder well he he pulls Connor aside and he says to him

listen that guy was a fucking loser you're the MVP of the league you see why it's different garbage you're not hanging out with him for any extended period in the next few months are you okay he stinks tell him I say

then. Here's my thing. I look at this list. I look at the standings and I go, there's one good team in the entire NHL. Sure. Yeah. Two.

I'll put Dallas in. Good Lord. Okay. Sure. Yep. But then I look at this list of coat and I'm like, I can't find a firing here. And I feel this way a lot and then like at various points of seasons and then Lebrun will have, you know, hearing that there's going to be a coaching change in whatever, and you go, yeah, that makes sense. But, like, I'm just looking down this, put it this way. I don't, I don't bet on this stuff, but even if I did, I don't see anything here that makes me go, I like those odds, even as a long shot. And they list like, something like 20 guys, and then there's a bunch of guys who aren't even on the list at all because they're either new or the team is good. But it's like, I don't know. Where is that opening coming from? If it's not

coming in Nashville. Because that's the one that seems obvious to me. Again, I think, I think Arneal is the, is like the, the only reason I wouldn't say Nashville is because they keep asking and he keeps going, it's not fucking happening. Right. Like, that's, that's why I say not Nashville. Obviously, you know, if it were me and like what I think would work to, you know, start the process of fixing that team.

A coaching change would be par for the course in Nashville, for sure. But this is why the Arneal thing is interesting because they had bigger aspirations than wherever they are in the standings right now. And the GM's not going to go, well, you know whose fault it is. It is me. I resign, you know? So, like, that's why I think Arneal is kind of the most live option here. Yeah. Because it's not like they're going to start winning magically.

until Hellebuck shows up again. So whenever that is. They're tied with the blues right now. And we've spent the last two months talking about how terrible the blues are. Yeah. They've games in hand and all that. You know, I neglected to mention this in the trading a player thing. I saw somebody, I don't know how reputable this was.

I don't even know who said it, but I did see some suggestion that Jordan Bennington might be available. And it's like... That was another guy in my Oilers list. Yeah. Why not? That, if I'm the oilers, I'm at least calling. Hey, you're not even going to be the GM next year. What do you give a shit?

Give us a goal. Yeah. Hello, who am I speaking? Oh, Alex Dean. Yeah, yeah, how's it going, man? Hey, is, uh... It's Doug there? Doug there?

Just put them on for a second and you leave the room, all right? And I just... No, no, we're planning a guy... Don't take me off speaker, please? Yeah, we're doing Secret Santa stuff. It's fine. Just... I'm just saying, you go to Connor McDavid, who runs the Oilers, and you say,

hey, man, just curious, what's the biggest goal you ever scored in your life? Who's the goalie? Yeah. Who's the goalie in that game? Did he make a bunch of saves in overtime to get you to that point? Oh, that's interesting. Interesting. Okay.

So, yeah, I thought that was, you know, once you got farther down the list, I thought that was pretty interesting. Two other items here. I guess we'll quickly touch on the Olympics thing because I wasn't going to do it, and then I went to NHL.com right before we recorded. This is the headline. NHL receives, quote, positive reports, unquote, on Olympic rank progress. And then there's a bunch of quotes from Bill Daly.

And here they are. I'm getting positive reports about what they're going to do, what the next plan is, what the next day is. My positive report is it's going to be Wednesday, Bill. What it looks like, how the parties are reacting, et cetera. etc. Today was a fairly positive day. I think the IAHF was under the impression they had a different interpretation of what

NHLIS meant than we would have, which is funny. Even at the site visits, I'm not sure it was anything that was perceptible to anybody. It's not like people bringing tape measures there. So for whatever reason, it came back the way it came back. Now, I said they brought tape measures last week. So this is a direct refutation of my speculation, which I don't appreciate. And then he says, having said that, both we and the Players Association, have made the IHF very aware that when we participate in the Olympics in 2030, we expect it to be an NHLI service. This is one of those things where I'm like, I can't believe nobody said this, like got this down as a requirement, but also, yeah, I can't believe it.

It's the IOC, the IHF, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're sort of like, yeah, I mean, I didn't. We didn't put in the contract that there had to be breathable oxygen in the dressing rooms. You're right. We should have made a note of that for you. We just kind of assumed you would know. Well, I don't know if you know this. There's like this whole thing in Italian culture.

Like there's an actual word for it. Like old guys that just kind of go to construction sites and watch them build stuff and like do a lot of backseat driving Tuesday or Monday. morning quarterback or whatever, you know? Where were those guys in all this? Yeah. Where are those guys? There's not one old Italian guy going like, you know, I know you're doing like 30 meters or whatever,

or 60 meters, but it should be, it should be the other way. Just watching the guy, like, apparently do the, like, just take 200 steps down there. Close enough, man. You know those guys? That's, oh.

Yeah, of course. I'm having nightmares of, like, coaching kids baseball or, like, the other team's coach. You're like, hey, man, do you want the tape measure? No, no, I'm good. We're like, dude, why is third base is in the outfield and first base is in the batters box? What are you doing, man? And he says, it's a me. I'm a move to Milan.

Okay, I apologize. I think that's going to get us canceled. To every, a lot of trouble here. Every Italian. Further Bill Daily quotes, I think the players is so. Association canvassed the players and apparently they did not believe the ice size to be a big issue, a health and safety issue, or a competitive issue. Ron Hainsey told Sportsnet over the weekend the health and safety of our players while playing on any ice surface will not be compromised. And Daly said of that quote, that's something we're going to have to monitor.

We've offered and they are utilizing our ice experts and technicians and outside providers. We're basically moving everybody there to try to help get this done in a way that is acceptable for NHL athletes. We've always made them aware that we're here to help, and as we get closer to the games, we'll assess the situation on whether they have the sufficient manpower resources and expertise to do it the way it needs to be done. We're willing to chip in and help to the extent that we need to. And then they go, hey, there's going to be a stretch where like five games, like men's Olympic games, get played on this ice surface in a 30-hour period. And then Bill Daly says this.

I mean, if the ice is unplayable, the ice is unplayable. I don't want to be flip about it. We probably will know that in advance of the official start of the Olympic Games. What you do at that point becomes a different issue. Obviously, if the players feel the ice is unsafe, we're not going to play. It's as simple as that. Whatever flows from that flows from that. I'm not really all that concerned about it.

And then he wraps up by saying he doesn't want to be pessimistic. He says, I actually do think most of my information is more on the positive side than the negative side. The buildings are supposed to be done by February 2nd. So we have some time. And the latest reports I was getting, I was at the table in the meeting, were positive. February 2nd. And the first game is February 5th. That's right.

But the good news is February 7th, that's Groundhog Day. So if you're not done by the end of the day, you just go back and what would be the worst possible outcome here. Is it the rink isn't ready and they they don't even start the tournament or would it be they get halfway through the tournament and then

can't continue? Can you imagine Canada's play USA in the metal game and and one team is like no this is we can't play on this the ice is man the other team is like no let's go let's one team like when one of the goal is Stuart Skinner and

one of them is Connor Hellebuck. It is hard to, yeah, it's crazy. The ice sucks all of a sudden. Yeah, it's really weird. I gotta go. There's a puddle in the crease. No, no, that's our goalie. That's our guy.

And, uh, and, uh, Matthew Kachuk skates over here. This puddle's kind of yellow. Don't worry about that. It's fine. Um, no, like, I hadn't even considered the prospect of, they play a couple of games and then they go, fuck, this ice is not holding up at all.

Like, that's why you play test games. Oh, yeah, for sure. It blows out his ACL because the ice is crap and everyone goes, hold on a second.

Yeah. And again, meanwhile, you know, like everybody's like, well, if it's not safe and like, it's got more banana peals on it than a fucking

Mario cart course. Yeah. And they all have, you know, they dust them for prints and it says, dude, Gary Bettman. What if,

what if all the the NHL players go home but they keep running the tournament and like Italy wins the gold medal or something honestly that would run what odds could you get on it? I wonder like could you

throw down like five bucks you're getting like 10,000 to one odds on some of these countries? I'll look this up for you really quick I don't even know if they would take the odds but that You know. Let's see here. What does Fandu have to say about this?

You can get Italy and France for plus 25,000. Okay, so that's 25. That's like... 250 to 1, right? Yeah. Which is, it's okay, but that's not great. That's not as good as you would think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, that's something. But yeah, I really hadn't even considered like the possibility of they get there and then go, never mind, actually. That would be fucking insane. Because I was talking about this the other day. Like, they couldn't just then go like play NHL games like, oh yeah, like just start the season again. Like nothing happened. All these buildings are booked for, you know. You haven't sold any tickets.

It's just a three-week gap of everyone's sitting around being angry. That would be fucking crazy. I hadn't even thought of that. That's wild. Anyway, one last thing here for you. Little website called The Athletic. You might have heard of it. They did one of their famous player polls,

and they asked players a bunch of questions about all kinds of stuff. Some of them resulted in interesting answers. Most of them did not. I liked this one. We'll lead with this. where will Connor McDavid play in three years? 56% said he's not leaving Edmonton. Right.

But that meant 44% said. It's by far the biggest bar on the chart, but... Yes. 50-50 is, okay. When you're right 55% of the time, 56% of the time, I mean, you're wrong, 44% of the time. So the other teams here, 10% say the Toronto, Maple Leafs. 8% say, the New York Rangers, which I hadn't even considered that.

Connor McDavid in New York would be something else. Yeah. That would be crazy. You think Gretzky and Messier would be giving them a call to... Yeah, I mean, it went great for Wayne in New York. Yeah. Then you got Chicago and Vegas at 4.5% each. Tampa at 3.5% percent.

Anaheim, Florida, L.A. and Utah at 1.8% apiece. And then the following teams all received one vote. Buffalo, whoever said that, extremely funny. Yes, that's very, very funny. Calgary, even funnier. That's great, good job. The Montreal Canadiens, the Pittsburgh Penguins, the San Jose sharks and the Seattle Cracken. Yeah, I think he's definitely going to Seattle.

Oh, it says here that that that player was a J. Decord. Yeah. Yeah. I do like the sheer volume of picks. Yeah. I think my two takeaways from this, I think the 10% who said the Leafs, that's just kind of, that's like the answer you give if you're like, I think he's going somewhere, but I haven't really thought about where. Well, it seems. Again, he's from Ontario.

So that's like a thing that you could talk. yourself into. And indeed, along those same lines, where will Sydney Crosby play next year? Yeah. The vast majority, 73.7% say, staying in Pittsburgh, baby, I tend to agree with them at this point, unfortunately. As much as I'd love to the excitement of a Sydney Crosby trade. I don't think it's going to happen. Um, 12.7 said Montreal, hey, he's kind of from there. That's as from there as you can get for Sidney Crosby. And then 11.9% said Colorado. No other teams got a single vote.

No, not true. Did I write that down wrong? Two teams got a single vote. Vegas. Oh, okay. Which again, I was surprised Vegas didn't get more of the McDavid love. The other team that got a single vote, the Philadelphia Flyers. I am willing to bet you.

Like, the guy who said McDavid to the flames is definitely the same one who said Crosby to the Flyers. right? Yeah, 100%. This dude's just being a prick. Like, this is, oh yeah, you want to, this is,

this was a player telling the writer to screw off and the writer's like, no, I'm gonna, your vote counts. You're in. That rules. That would be,

the NHO would be so much fun next year if McDavid ends up in. Same gimmick in Washington too, right? Obviously it didn't get a vote, but like that would be the same idea. Mm-hmm. But,

Unfortunately, he's not brave enough to do it. He's no Yager. Nope. Who's the NHL's most punchable player? Brad Marchand is not the answer. Crazy. Nick Cousins is the answer. 24% say Nick Cousins.

Which when you're like a fourth liner, this is like you have, how much of a prick do you have to be? I got to tell you, man. You can't say he didn't earn it. No, you cannot. You know, like that's kind of my thing with it. He's going, no, I put in the fucking work for this one, man. And you have to agree. So, yeah, that's Brad Marchand number two, just under 20%.

Matthew Kachuk, number three at 10%. Matthew Kachuk at 10% and Brady Kachuk only getting one vote. was surprising to me. Makes me sick. Yeah. Makes me sick. Other guys on the list. Connor Garland and Joel Erickson, about 4.5% each.

Garnet Hathaway and Sam Bennett, about 3% each. And then Brendan Gallagher, Dylan Larkin, Michael Bunting, Nikita Zedorov, Tim Stutzla. I'm a little surprised to Tim Stutzla here. And Trevor Zegris, just under 2%. round out the multiple vote getters. Somebody voted for Kill McCar. Somebody also voted for Matt Rempe, which I find funny. That giant guy over there who doesn't do anything but fight,

oh, he's so punchable. I wish I could. Well, the Rangers are going, we agree. The Rangers are saying, we agree. That guy is very punchable. That may have been Matt Rempe answering that. Yeah, me. I like this one.

what is the next record to fall in the NHL? Yeah. 22 votes, by far the most votes, say career goals. I love that. I love that one. That's great. Well, I mean, because if Ovechkin scores tonight, that's the new record. Well, I don't think that.

No, that's not what they meant. But obviously you're right. But yeah, I don't know. It's interesting because obviously nobody's even close, right? Like, so for that to be the next one to fall, they're like, oh, like 15 years from now, somebody will maybe pass Alex Ovechkin. I love the optimism. Mm-hmm. But Austin Matthews has to score like 500 goals to get into the conversation.

So, you know, next up is Iron Man streak with 12 votes. Sure, that's a fun one. Brent Burns needs 111 games to pass Kessel. I don't know if he's going to do it. We can't let it have. Let our boy Phil hold it for at least a while. Yeah. But if it's not Burns, because he's getting up there,

The next closest guy is Nick Suzuki, and he's like 700 games away. So if it's not Kessel, we're in a lot of trouble for this one. But there you go. Career games played, got 11 votes, so very close to the Iron Man mark. The current active player is Brent Burns, and he's going to play like another 200 games. 250, actually, it looks like. So they're both 40. So that's tough.

They could do it if they wanted to. Like, you know, Ovechkin's like, hey, Washington, I'll stay with you if you sign me for three years. Mm-hmm. But, you know, 250 games is a lot. And in fact, three years wouldn't get it done now that I do the math on that. So, great. In fact, if it was three years, no, he could probably just get over the line, actually, now that I say that, because obviously there's still 40 this year. Okay, three years, that sounds great.

Let's make it happen. Career points by a defenseman is up next with seven votes. And that's a fun one. Because, once again, we're talking about like a Brent Burns guy. Which you're not. It would have to be like a, I think Kail McCar would be the guy that they're looking at there because it's a long way to go.

And single season as well, got four votes, which is. Well, I was going to say. So that, 130 something points. There's 139 is the Bobby Orr single season mark and Ray Bork at 1579. So that's going to take some real. work. Kale McCar is already 27 years old and he needs 1,100 career points. Yeah. So if Kail Makar scores 100 points a year for the next decade, he's still 100 points

back and he's 37 years old. That's right. It's a tough one. That's crazy. I mean, we would have had a similar sounding conversation about Ovechkin 12 years ago, so maybe, but feels tough. Feels very tough. Then some other things that got some mention that I wanted to shout out here. Single season standings points. The Bruins just did it. I think Colorado is technically on pace to pass it right now.

But, you know, they have, what, 48 points in... 29 games. Right? So let's do the math on that. And that gets you to, they're on pace to pass it by 0.7 points. So the fact that they started out, 21, 2, and 6,

the Bruins were like, yeah, you're kind of keeping up with us. That goes to show how fucking ridiculous that Bruin season was. Points in a single post season is another one that got five votes. Wayne Gretzky had five, or I'm sorry, Wayne Gretzky had 47, of course.

Five would not be a particularly high number. And Connor McDavid got to 42 a couple of years. Toronto may believes who disagree with that. McDavid got to 42 a couple years ago. It's on the table for sure. Sure. And then four players went out on a limb and picked Gretzky's career point record.

Yeah. Some of these answers, if they are not McDavid to the Flames level, trolling, reveal that, like, I think most of us know that this isn't just a hockey thing. A lot of pro athletes are just dumb guys.

But you tend to think that they're, the one thing they're not dumb about is their own sport. And some of these guys are obviously pretty dumb about, their own their own wait a second it says here

a lot of these guys barely finished high school math okay actually that's starting to check out now that you mention that even worse

than the career scoring is two people said career assists he's going to be the that's the next one baby that's the next one

that's going down oh I don't think so I'm not sure about that and someone else said career shutouts

which Yeah Jonathan Quick is halfway there If Jonathan Quick starts every game from here on out for the Rangers And doesn't allow a goal He would not break the record But he could be pretty close Connor Hellebuck

The best goalie and I would say probably two generations Is currently 80 shutouts behind Martauprode And he's like 32 or whatever I don't see that one falling anytime soon but maybe, you know, maybe I'm wrong. Great. Yeah, okay. They asked him, do you have a burner account on social media?

95% of NHLers said no. And Sean said, I don't believe him. I do believe them. Because most NHLers are like under 30 these days. And all these children are just like, what do I need a fucking burner for? I'll just, you know, not public. You know, like I won't have a public facing one

and a private and a private face of one, I'll just have one or the other. That's all. But it's worth, 80% of players say that they follow what people are saying on social media. Right. But none of them have burners. And like eight of them have accounts with their own name that they actively use. Okay.

Sure. Finally, does playing in a no-income tax state actually matter? 86% say yes about 14% say no and if you asked this question five years ago those numbers would be reversed

because this is a thing that got made up right around the time Florida won the first time it's not fair that Florida won no this this is where I'm I part ways with you man

and I've said this a couple years ago I was very much on the bandwagon of this is a fake issue this is people I've said that people were mad that Stephen Stamcoast didn't sign in Toronto or Montreal

and they needed to come up with a reason why he would stay in Tampa and it's just snowballed from there it's fake it didn't I have changed my view on this in the last year or two I've told the story before where I did a whole rant I don't know if it was this show or somewhere else about how this was a fake issue and, you know, this is just loser talk from fans who can't beat, whose teams can't

beat these better teams. And I had somebody from very high up in an organization and an OTAX state contact me. And they were like, you're not necessarily wrong, but we always showed this to every free agent. This was our number one go-to thing when we were talking to anybody is bring out the tax chart. Well, again, what I'm saying is... It's the fact that not only 86% saying it matters, but some of the comments are along the lines of like, yeah, of course it does. Now, I still, I will say this. I have switched from saying, this is not an issue. The league shouldn't do anything about it to saying this is an issue. I just don't think the league can do anything about it.

So what I'm saying is like you I'm not I'm not saying actually I don't think millionaires mind paying tax obviously they hate paying taxes and why wouldn't they you know they're millionaires. You know these guys are all anti-taxing and that kind of stuff. Obviously I agree with that. That goes without saying. What I'm saying is that again, whichever GM cooked up this stuff and like set it to an insider one time. two years ago, that's the best GM in league history. Yeah, I don't,

I'm off this bandwagon, man. I think, I think I was wrong on this one. I did, because I was with you. Well, again, what I'm saying is, if you said to the rank and file player in the NHL five years ago,

do you think, not for you individually, do you think this is an issue for the league at large, 86% saying, No, not really. But then four Florida Stanley Cup, like four Stanley Cups in the state of Florida later, and everyone's like, this is actually the biggest issue facing us. That's like saying, do you think, you know, hey man, these clams smell weird.

Do you think there may be a problem? No, but four hours of puking into the toilet later, you change your mind. Like, yeah, what has happened to prove the theory has changed people's mind about the theory. Well, I don't think it proved anything. I think Florida built a really good team and Tampa did it before them. They did. And then they kept their players at obvious discounts. And I think that's what the players are saying.

But only. It's like, man, if I had this guy's numbers, I would have got this much in free agency and he signed for that. Okay. Again, I don't think there's anything. Tampa had retained all their guys before that. It only became a talking point after Florida won. and then Florida was like, by the way, like, because, hey, like, they're saying they're going to one their first cup a year and a half ago. We've been talking about this for longer than that.

I don't think that's true. I think it started right around the time Florida won their cup. And people said, wait a second, this isn't fair. I live in Minnesota. There's no freaking paltrys here. Yeah, I don't, I don't think that's correct. trying to find if, because I, the first time I wrote about it, when was that? Yeah. Okay. So I wrote a thing where I said, let's settle down about tax rates. Okay. This is, this is my, did you know that

some NHL teams are in states and provinces that have higher tax rates than others? I'm guessing you did since you're a hockey fan and you haven't been able to have a conversation about a signing trade or other transaction without somebody breathlessly reminding you about it. And I wrote that in December 2020. So this, that is, I guess Tampa had just won. Yeah. So, okay, so it was Tampa that started all this. So Tampa has just won.

They're very, but, you know, the first one in a bubble. And then I go on to basically make the same, largely the same case that, that you're making. But I don't know, man. I think... Again, the first GM that said it... There's more here than we're acknowledging, I think. The first GM that said it to an insider is the guy who made it a conversation

and therefore they are the greatest thinker among GMs in the history of the game. This is an end around. This is actually not fair and here's why. You know, we say it all the time. Here's why it's actually impossible for me to do my job. And one guy figured out the finger thing means taxes.

Yeah. And now it's, like you said, like it's been five years. I just think you'd have a hard time convincing 86% of the players on any of those other excuses. Sure. Well, anyway, why don't you hit them with the plugs and let's get out of here? If I made the Athletic, I'll be on with other Sean and Frankie tomorrow on the Athletic Hockey Show. The newsletter just came out. Subscribe to that.

if you haven't already and I get a couple more of more posts coming this week including one where I'm ranking the worst GMs to ever hold their job with a team

for at least five years which when you think about it gets tricky because how bad can you be if you last for five years or more any answers pretty bad. I don't want I don't want you to answer I don't want you to answer where on the list he is

Jim Benning's got to be on there right He's on there I haven't actually I have the 10 guys I haven't done the ranking yet Got it Jim Benning would be a great example Of this sort of guy Hey yeah yeah Jim Benning

Oh boy Remember that And then they got worse as an organization That's the crazy part Who anyhow For me Elite Prore It's World Junior time, folks. We have the best people in the sport covering this tournament.

We just, I think yesterday or maybe over the weekend, launched the page that's like the hub for all our World Junior stuff. I'll put it this way. When some players were named to the team, they immediately pushed out an article that was like, I knew this guy would make the team. here's why he made the team even though it's a surprise to the layperson. And I think that happened for at least one guy, maybe more than one.

So, like, we're, we're, I shouldn't say we because I'm not really part of this. We got the best guys in the business over there. I'm part of the company, so I can say we to that. But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not clued in on what goes on in the CHL. I am clued in on what goes on in NCAA. I don't know if you knew this, Sean. They named seven NCAA players to the Canadian World Junior team. That's an all-time record.

Okay. What about that bum, Gavin McKenna? Did he make it? He made it. Oh, good for him. He shouldn't have, though. He's a bum, as you said. No, he obviously should have made the team.

He's a very, very good player, but, you know, it's getting a little close. Ivers Stenberg and what have you. But the other thing about college hockey, we've talked about this on the show before. Historic Matthews Arena, the oldest continually operational, blah, blah, blah, rank in North America. I think that's the, anyway.

It's been open since like the 1920s. They're closing it on Saturday. I will be there. I will have the full on-site report next weekend and, you know, all kinds of All kinds of other crazy stuff is going on in college hockey. There is a team that is still undefeated, Sean, in college hockey these days.

Dartmouth, not Michigan, not Michigan State. Dartmouth is the only undefeated team left. They rock. They're great. So, yeah, lots of fun stuff going on to college hockey as the first half winds down. And you can read me right all about it over on elite prospects. And then you can head to patreon.com slash puck soup. and you can hear all our bonus episodes,

including one we released last week where me and Sean talked about a bunch of famous what-if scenarios. What if the Buffalo Sabres had won the Connor McDavid draft lottery? What if? What were some other ones? Do you remember? We changed a few trades around the Siddins. Oh, yeah.

That's right. What if the Sadiens didn't both get drafted? by Vancouver? What if Gretzky doesn't go to L.A. and he goes to Detroit instead? Lots of fun stuff there. So that was a really,

a lot of very positive feedback on that episode. Which frankly isn't always the case. Anyway, so patreon.com slash puck suit. And that's it. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week. And until then, have a good one. Bye-bye.