Puck Soup - This is a Wendy's (Executive)

Episode Date: May 5, 2026

Sean and Ryan talk about the start of the second round, the Leafs' great new hire, Losers Corner, and more. Sponsored by Raycon (buyraycon.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I am Sean McNeu from The Athletic. And Sean, I know I can't let the big dog off the chain right now. I know you want to talk about how Steve Simmons is the hero of the week and all that. That has to be saved for the second segment because unfortunately the playoff games last night were extremely sick. Okay. Fortunately for me, the guy who likes that stuff. But, yeah.

Was there, were there games played? Is there? Um, a couple of them. Yeah. Hawking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Really?

They didn't cancel everything based on something happening to the Leafs. Fast. They tried. Okay. They really tried to make all of yesterday about that press conference, but they didn't quite get there. So instead, what we're going to do, well, I guess, do you want to talk about the early game or the late game?

Oh, let's go with the early game. Early game it is. Carolina Hurricanes. They finally trailed. They tried something new. Yeah. They showed the graphic and it was, I think it was 355 minutes with a lead and zero playing from behind in the first five games of their playoff run. That's pretty good.

Yep. So, you know, nice for them. But, yeah, it's. It ends up. Now we won again. It turns out. Yeah. Turns out we let the other team score twice in five minutes.

They seem to like playing from behind because they did it for almost 45 minutes. Yeah. They really, you know, they were doing it to feel alive, I feel like. You know what I mean? Somebody sent me like the,

the, like Andre the Giant and Princess Bride. I just want you to feel like you're doing well. Yeah. You know, it was kind of that. Like, hey, look at you. Flyers?

Boy, you're giving us all we can handle. Okay, how much time's left, eight minutes? All right. We got to go. Bang, bang. Clock second. Yep. I got to say this, though.

I don't know the last time I saw a line with, I think you'd say zero superstars at this point, as dominant as Blake Stan Kovun Hall. Yep. It's unbelievable. Here's just the quick stats for you. When any one of those three guys are on the ice, Carolina is outscoring their opponents nine to one at five on five. Okay.

When they're off, it's three to three. I would simply put those guys on all the time. A good strategy, I think for them, would be those guys play 60 minutes a night. I think a good strategy for one of their opponents would be maybe to try to stop. up in those guys. Because all the underlying numbers are, I mean, they're not nine to one good, but they're 63% of the shot, 70% of the expected goals, 63% of the scoring chances. And you can just go down the list.

It's everything they're doing. They are just speedbagging the other teams. It's fucking crazy how good they are. And, you know, I didn't think Ottawa was going to be able to have an answer for that. That turned out to be right. I really didn't think Philly would either. And I'm just not seeing it from the Flyers so far. Yeah, they had the lead, but what did they have seven power plays?

Yeah, it's, it's tough to look at a game that you lose in overtime and be like, oh, I don't see a path to you guys winning any games because they're one goal away, obviously. but yeah Carolina is they look very very good they look like the classic team that has peaked

at exactly the right time yep keep it going for another month you know we'll see about that well I mean look I guess the thing is this like last night's loss shouldn't be like demoralizing

like game one should have been game one it was just like oh you guys like thought you were in the same league as us, you are not. This one, like, you know, they had a two nothing lead for a while. They're the Flyers. And it's hard to, it's hard to keep that on, on home ice while the other team is so, or on, on the road, I should say, well, the other team is so good at just like playing their style

of hockey on home ice. You know what I mean? I'll put it this way. I don't, I don't know that you're going to walk into. into Raleigh going, we're going to get Carolina off their game and then watch what happens, you know?

Mm-hmm. And so, yeah, you're down to nothing, but at least there's something to build on. We got killed in game one. We gave them something to think about in game two. And now we're going back to home ice. Right. Thins out that margin for error a little bit, though. It surely

does. And I mean, we we have to at least mention that there's a little bit of a nightmare scenario brewing here, given that so far, Carolina's been pretty dominant. Nobody's looking at this series and saying it's over. Nobody's looking at this series saying Carolina is going to win in four,

but Carolina could absolutely win in four. And the fourth game of this series is played the night before Montreal and Buffalo play a game. three of their series. So we could have a situation if that Montreal Buffalo series is as close as everyone seems to think it's going to be, I think

just about every prediction I've seen has it as like a six or seven game series. Sure. We could have an awfully long time between Carolina hurricane games. I'm just putting that out there as something to consider

because I mean, you know, normally if Oh, yeah, one team sweeps, the other team goes in a long series. You can have that weak difference. Like, we could be up to like a week and a half plus. So, but we got to get there first. What was your thought on the icing controversy? Which, kudos to the NHL script writers for shaking it up.

I'm getting a little sick of offside and goalie interference. They mixed in some puck over the goal line in round one. And now we got the rare icing controversy. Two icing controversies. Yeah. No, I mean, the idea is, sorry, that was me skipping ahead to, uh, to the, uh, to the, to the Vegas game. Oh, okay. What, was there icing controversy in the Philly game, too?

I thought, I thought there might have been one or, it probably was. We all, like, we all hate icy, but that is the, that seems to be the talk of. Oh, you know what it was? It was, uh, the, the puck skipped under Taylor Hall's, uh, stick and, and they thought he might have gotten a piece of it. Like, remember, he was adamant about it. You're right. Yeah, they moved in.

And they, and they moved to center ice. It out and, yeah, and got it. I knew, I knew there was, I knew there was one. I just had to cycle through the memory bank there. So there you go. So it's an actual, it's an actual smooth segue by me instead of just. That's right. Um, yeah, I thought, I thought Taylor Hall was correct.

Um, there was, I think it was the second replay they showed where it was like, yeah, he gets the slightest piece of it. But again, he was so adamant that you're like, okay, fine. I think Anaheim kind of got jobbed on the non-call there. Yeah. So did you see the Dave Jackson explanation? Yeah. And I understand.

Like, I know what the rule is, so I don't need the rule explaining. I mean, I feel like a lot of people don't. And this is this is another one of the, how often does this happen in the NHL? where it's like, I think the problem here is the fans don't understand the rule. Well, then maybe you guys could actually... Explicate that, yeah. Explain the rules a little bit,

other than just waiting for a disaster to happen, and then you're like, well, actually, we sent out a memo that you can have your foot in the crease. It was... And was the memo sent to me? No? Okay, great, thanks. It was top secret, but...

But Dave Jackson's explanation was it's not... Fans think it's a race to the dot, and it's... It's not. It is a race to the dot to prove to the linesmen that you would win a race to the puck, which doesn't get to happen anymore. But basically, once somebody gets to the dot, the linesman decides who's going to win the race. And then rules accordingly.

Yeah. Yeah, they got screwed on that one. I don't know what to, I don't know how else to say. Well, in so far, I mean, I thought it was close. I don't, I don't think. they got screwed. I think they have a case. I understand why they're frustrated. Well, I'll put it this way. We talk all the time about game management and all that kind of stuff, right? At that point in the game, I don't know that I, I think a

braver linesman than me is giving them the leeway. I'll put it that way. You know, like, to keep that play alive at that point in a one goal game, I'm sitting there going, hmm, I don't no, you know. Or no, it was tied at that point, right? Because that was the, yeah, that was the game way. That was, yeah, they had just, the ducks that just scored the tying goal. Yes. So, yeah, I was like, I, I, that's why I think Anaheim got jobbed is, is that, like, that was, it was so close that, like, I don't know how you make that call in real time.

But it's also, like, you can retroactively say. Yeah. Yeah. It's so close that if he blows. a dead at Vegas complains and now Anaheim gets face off in the offensive zone and they score, we're having the same argument about... I get it, but... Like, to me, I don't think they were screwed.

I think it was just a really close coin flip call. Well, I'll put it this way. I think if you do that exact... I don't think it's a coin flip. I think if you do that exact play 50 times, the line's been waves off icing maybe twice. You know what I mean? like it's all a judgment call and so that's why it's fine. Okay.

You know what I'm? Does that make sense? Like I get, I get why the linesman was like, that's not icing. He beat it. I think they usually err on the side of, let's just call it the icing as opposed to he beat it.

And this time they didn't do that. That's all. Okay. But my thing with this series is very simple. is Anaheim, and you saw it in the first period and a half, two periods, whatever. Anaheim is very, very clearly a team that wants to play at a speed that Vegas cannot keep up with. Right. And so the series is, can Vegas kind of drag them into the muck?

You know, like really, you know, get down and dirty, throw some mud around that kind of stuff. Like, and if that's, if they're able to dictate that throughout the series, then that's, I think Vegas is going to win. But if Anaheim can really open it up, open it up, especially on home ice, that's a, I think that's a huge problem for Vegas, especially given I don't really trust either team's goaltending right now. Sure. Yeah, certainly not Vegas. I mean, Vegas has earned no goaltending trust. No, it was fine last time. Oh, quite good at times, yeah.

To only give up one goal on however many shot. Like, that's all you're looking for, really. So am I reading you correctly? Like, you're still looking at this as a longish series? Is, yeah. One of those, the favorite, took the underdog's best shot and shook it off. And now the underdog's in trouble. I just don't know that Vegas is the favorite.

You know, like, you want to talk about coinflap. this feels like one to me. But, you know, if Vegas wins in even five games, I wouldn't be shocked. You know, but, you know, I was looking at. I do think Vegas is the better team. I think you're right about the potential for a bit of a style mismatch,

just purely on the speed. But, you know, we didn't, like, we saw it last night, but we didn't see it decide the game last night. So. Yeah. Well, I, I, I think two things are kind of at play with that.

One, I think Vegas's two or three best players are better than Anaheim's two or three best players. And I think, and this is the crucial part to me, is the number of guys who are difference makers on that Anaheim team who have played in a playoff game is pretty close to zero. Um, like, for example, did you know Troy Terry has never played in a playoff game? That guy's like 29. And he's never played, but you're, yeah, yeah. And like, because you think of them as a young team, okay, these young guys, they wouldn't, you know, cutter go T.A., whatever, Mason McTavish, Jackson, LeCone, those guys have never played in a playoff game. That makes sense. But then you go, Troy Terry has never played in a playoff game.

And that guy's been in the league for like 10 years. You're like, huh? Mm-hmm. So that's the thing I'd be a little worried about if I'm Anaheim is like, these guys have been through it. They know what it takes. And they can also, because of the depth of their roster and the talent at the top of it, they can kind of absorb punches and then hit you with a haymaker.

Yeah. Kind of. You know what I mean? Like Anaheim just doesn't have somebody who can do what Mitch Marner has done in the last few games. Are we concerned at all that with the collective health of all the rotator cuffs out there from everyone slapping the Mitch Martyr redemption button?

I mean, he's the one fucking putting it in everybody's face. There's no... Oh, he scored an empty net goal last night. Well, I mean... His third of the playoffs. Holy crap. Unheard of production. I got to pull up the numbers for you.

When he wins the Conn Smyth in the final, that's when you want to really. You don't want to have left it all on the field when he scored an empty net goal in game one of a series. Just just. I'm not saying about the empty netter. I'm saying he's looked really good. He's looked really good. And you're right.

It's easy to be good in game one. There's no two ways about that. But I just, I think he's looked really good. Set up on the first goal was sweet. That's what I'm saying. You do in fact have to hand it to him. 65% of the scoring chances when he's on the ice, 57% of the goals go to that.

Was that last night or overall? Overall. Oh, wow. Okay. Well, where's that button? I'm saying, I might have to give it a pad or two. Okay. Yeah.

I mean, look, when you get to play with Mark Stone, that kind of makes it a little easier on you, you know? You can do a little bit more of the Mitch style. Let's go out there and have some fun. kind of hockey. Yep. But yeah, I... Because if there's one thing about Mitch Marner

in the playoffs, dudes, dude just is having fun. Well, you know, I'm just saying that maybe it's a slight upgrade to be playing with Vegas's defense behind you over instead of Toronto's the last few years.

I think you might be on to something on that one. I might have cracked it. I gotta say you may, yeah, you may have that. So, yeah, What do you think of the series overall? Like, what's your big picture? I think I'm more... It sounds to me like I'm...

You're giving the ducks more of a chance than I am. I think Vegas is a solid favorite. And obvious, I would have said that before last night and obviously the fact that they won game. I don't think there was anything about last night's game that makes you go, oh, Vegas has got this, but they've got a game in the bank now. Yeah.

And when the favor can say that, that's, yeah, I think Vegas wins this series. And, I mean, I didn't give the ducks much of a chance against the Oilers either. So we'll see how it plays out. You can see the path to a duck's win, certainly. Yeah. I just think it's a very, it's going to be a very narrow path at a tough one for them to to navigate. Well, yeah, I mean, they got to do what they didn't do last. night, which is when Vegas makes a mistake, they actually have to put the puck in the net.

Yep. Yep. And again, I think they can overwhelm them with their speed, especially if they get last change on home ice in games three and four. But again, by that point, they might be down to nothing. And it kind of feels like that's going to be an insurmountable lead for a veteran team like the Golden Knights. in Colorado. Was that a fun game the other night? Yeah, it was just a little bit fun.

I would say I enjoyed that to some extent. Holy smokes. Yeah. Yep. Neither team has really given you a reason to think their goaltending is going to hold up for this one. Because as much as like, you know, the Kail McCar goals and all this kind of stuff, yeah, absolutely. Great. But there was a lot of those.

team's defense is creating or offenses creating something out of nothing and like the puck's in the back of the net. And I, this is just my opinion. Even in the win, I don't think you want to give up six goals. Interesting. Okay. So what, I mean, you mentioned the goaltending and obviously the goaltending was bad on both sides. Sunday night.

Colorado's goaltending has been good. really since they made those two trades two years ago. And Minnesota's gold thing was good this year to the point where going into the playoffs, there was sort of a, you know, who do you start? What do you do with Walshead now? Does he start game two for you if you're John Hines? I think it's a really good excuse to shake it up a bit.

You know, like in much the same way, pulling the goalie can be like, oh, we fucked up and we put our goalie in a bad position. Let's just mix it up a little bit. There's nothing that says like even even with a win, you can't go back to Walsdet in game three. He needed a reset. He's a rookie. All that kind of stuff, right? Like you can very easily make that argument. and it also works if you lose because then you're like,

okay, well, let's go with the, get a dance with who you came to the dance with. Yeah, but I mean, you lose, then you go back to Allstead, and it's like, all right, either he doesn't play well and we're screwed or he does play well. Yeah, obviously you have to make the,

you have to make the decision of like who's, like you say to him, hey, no matter what happens in this game, you're starting game three. Like, you have to make that decision of whether you're going to say that to him. You know what I mean? But, yeah, but also, I don't think if they go back to Walsett, like, they're fucking up big time. Look at what he did in the first round, you know?

Because, again, you can easily just brush this off and say, well, look, they're the avalanche. They're going to score nine on you sometimes. Yeah. So. So you would make the switch? Yeah, I think I would. Interesting. We haven't heard.

As we're recording this Tuesday morning, we have not heard that people may know who's starting by the time they hear this. But we have not. The other thing to say about this, though, and this is the thing that makes me really nervous for the wild, that Joel Erick's an neck injury. They do not have the center depth to absorb that. They just don't. And so it's easy to see a team with a ton of. of center depth like the avalanche torturing the wild for the rest of this series or for as long as Eric's Eriksonek is out.

Yeah. That is, yeah. We didn't really get to talk about this series. Like were you a, well, actually, I shouldn't. I was going to say I was guessing you pick Colorado because most people seemed deep. Did you? Or were you, because I have seen some people picked a while. Yeah, I had Colorado because we knew Erickson,

wasn't playing before that series started. So I was just like, oh, they're in a lot of trouble here. So, I mean, I don't feel like there's anything in, like game one was so wild that it's almost like, I don't think you adjust your priors based on a nine six game. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, if you thought the wild, we're going to win the series, you're a little less confident just because, again, one game in the bank is, you know, does change equations. but and if you thought Colorado,

you're still thinking that. And I was at, like, I picked Colorado as well. So yeah. Yeah, I mean, do we just go ahead and pencil tonight in as like the one nothing double overtime game? Yeah, I think so.

We're not letting any of that, uh, that shit happen again for sure. Like, because again, like I always say this. Like if you're a coach that feels like your team, especially after Colorado sweeps,

feels like your team might be a little loosey-goosey or whatever. A winning 7 to 6, 8 to 5, whatever, like giving up a big number, but scoring a ton is like the perfect situation for a coach because he's like, you think it's going to be so fucking easy to score nine goals every night? You went out there allowed six. You guys are idiots, you know? Like, that's such an easy motivational thing if you're a coach that I think, I think both coaches can really put the boots to their teams and come out feeling pretty good about that.

To me, it comes down to, I thought the two best players on the ice were McCar and Hughes. Oh, God, that was so fun watching them go back and forth. Yep. And I don't want to get ahead of ourselves, but how many times in hockey do you, you get the matchup, you get the matchup, you're like, this is going to be so fun to watch them go back and forth. And then it's just, because of the nature of hockey, it doesn't necessarily play out that way. Yeah.

You know, it's like, it's not, it's not the NBA where two guys can isolate on each other. And you're like, here we go. It's like, this actually felt like, yeah, we're just going back and forth. Like, all right, we're going to do the McCar shift and we're going to do the Quinn shift. And we're going to figure out who the best defenseman of the world is

based on this. And Zach Warranski's just sadly sitting sitting in his rec room in Columbus. I hope he's not. I hope he's on a beach somewhere. Yeah, that'd be nice for him. But yeah, I think that it's fair to say that that McCar got the better of him in game one,

but it's just as easy to see Hughes being like, no, no, no, no, no. We're not doing that. to me anyway, you know? So, um, again, I,

I think, uh, I think all things being equal I would take, you know, who you drafted in first overall, I would take Hughes over McCar as a general thing. But I do wonder about that injury, you know,

to, uh, to McCar that forced him out of game one. Yeah. For a while anyway. Hell of a hit, too. Like,

talk about your. Highlight reel. Yep. Damn. You don't see McCar get hit like that too often. You're going to see for years as like you won't even necessarily remember the context. But yeah, here's a guy getting hit and like, oh, he's upside down. Yep.

So. And almost kicking the other guy in the head with this game. I think this is a good long series and that's fine by me, you know? Yep. It's, um. And, and if that it happens, you really do wonder if like, sometimes, like we focus in a little bit, I think, too much on the simple explanations, but I do wonder if this becomes as simple as Minnesota had a really tough series

and Colorado had a first round by. Yeah, could be. So as the war of attrition wears on, eventually, you know, we get to game five, six, maybe a game seven in Colorado's in much better shape than Minnesota. Yeah, I think this is feeling like a long one to me. Here's the question, though. How many games does it take for this series to get to the 15 goals they scored in game one? Yeah.

That was, so what were the, it was more goals than Carolina, Ottawa had in the whole series? I believe that's correct, yes. And it was more goal, there was some other series where it was like more goals than either team had. in, was it maybe the Minnesota Dallas series? Like in the whole thing, like it was, yeah. I, I love it, man. We love a good high scoring game. Yeah, that's right.

We love overtime, too. Yep. You know, we love most of all. Good 9-8 overtime game tonight. Let's go. Let's make it happen. Well, you know, you talk about an overtime game. Montreal Buffalo had, or, well, Montreal had the overtime game.

to kind of make it all happen in game six, was it? That was the one-nothing game? That game rocked. And, you know, then Montreal gets through to the second round with the fewest shots on goal by a winning team in the history of the NHL playoffs. And now they face the Buffalo Sabres. Very fine.

It feels like it was eight years ago, but... It does. It really does. four shots through two periods no shots Not that it's any consolation That second period Might have been the single best period

Any team has ever played in a game they lost Like Tampa just absolutely I mean to say they dominated Isn't even right That ice was that That ice was like tilted 45 degrees Like just Everybody's just

tumbling down. What? Hockey's a funny game. It's a funny old game. And, you know, I will talk about the lightning a little bit later, but I really like the clarity John Cooper had where he's like, the buck's gone my way so many times. I can't be mad when it when it's that crazy. I thought that was great.

And even Martin San Luis after the game was like, who, okay, that was wild. Hey, guys, don't do that. that again, but also, but thank you for winning. And so, yeah. Don't get started until tomorrow. Yep, that's right. I'm eager, man.

I'm looking for it. I think this is going to be, this could be, and, and, you know, obviously, most fun series, Colorado, Minnesota's got a big lead. Yeah, a little bit. Let's just say.

But this could be the goofy fun series of the playoffs. And also, like, Montreal was a very fun team, now suddenly gets to go and be the heels against the baby face sabers. That's going to be interesting. Yeah.

I mean... I'm sure their fan base will be cool about that. Well, so this is something I kind of wanted to talk about big picture for the second round. Who do you think in this second round is the goalie? that's like historically the most decorated, the most reliable, you know, like that kind of thing. Like just maybe the goalie with the single best career to date in the second round. In the second round, wow.

Is it, are you going to say it's Aden Hill sitting on the Vegas bench? No, I'm not going to say it's Aden Hill. I'm going starters only. There are eight goals from which to choose. I mean, is it Freddie? It's playoff fucking Freddie Anderson. The only guy who, the only guy of these eight goleys who has ever gotten a single vote for the Vesna. Really? Okay.

He's, to be fair, he's gotten votes in three seasons. A grand total of 16 GMs in his entire career have given him a Vesna vote. Damn, that's a great poll. But these are, because these are the other goleys. And this is the series that made me think of it. It's Dobish versus Lion in this series, right? Or Ukopakaluka, take your pick. It's going to be lion, given everything that transpired in the opening round.

Anderson is going up against a career 1B goalie in Dan Vladar, who's kind of been very good for Philly, but also, like, at the beginning of the year, you would have said, oh, they're starting goalie for the playoffs is Dan Lidar. And you said playoffs? Is that right? Interesting. In the Anaheim Vegas series, it's Dostle versus Hart, two guys who, you know, Dostles never played a playoff game.

Carter Hart wasn't in the league for 18 months and wasn't a great goalie before that. Walsett Wedgwood, like Wedgwood's never. started more than like 43 or 44 games in his career. I looked it up yesterday. I don't remember now. Did I say all eight? I think I did. Yeah.

So that's crazy that there is no, basically no goal who's gotten any real Vesna consideration in the past like six or seven years is in the playoffs at this point. Stan Bowman is doing like the, on James waving his arms at that. The last time, Sean, this is true. The last time there was a Stanley Cup final. Actually, I'll ask you this.

What do you think was the last Stanley Cup final without a past or future Vesna winner in the starters net? Without one. Without one. So that takes out Tampa. It takes out Florida. So we're going back to. Boston St. Louis had Rask. Pretty sure he was there.

He's one of Vesna. You're right about that. Flurry for the Knights. Correct. I guess we're going back to, geez, is it like Chicago, Philly in 2010? No, you skipped over the Matt Murray Martin Jones, 2016. I was wondering if Flurry was still like... He played, that was the, that was the year he played the two games.

Yeah. And like, save the penguin's bacon in those two games. Okay. So, man. All right. I'll put it to, and I put this in my article yesterday. On October 1st, if I said, second round of the playoffs features none of the following goalies. How much do you want to bet?

Hellebuck, Bobrovsky, Shasurkin, Sorokin, Ottinger, Swamen, Vasilevsky, Thompson. What would you have bet on that? Yep. That, I mean, it would have been, it would have seemed like an impossibility. And yet here we are, you know. So I think that this is the thing that I am paying the most attention to in this series. I think Buffalo and Montreal can both score goals pretty convincingly, even against, again, Vasilevsky and Swamen, guys who have real Vezna consideration in their past. Swamen's a finalist this year, for example.

And so is Ratholovsky now that I say it. So to me it boils down to can Alex Lyon or Jacob Dobish pull this out? Otherwise, I think these are two pretty evenly matched teams. And I don't know which goalie I trust. That is fair. I was really, I mean, both teams look good in the first round. I was really impressive, Montreal. Yeah.

I did not expect them to have the level that they had to be at to take out Tampa. I think I'm picking Montreal. It brings me no joy to report this. Yeah, I think I just got to trust Alex Lyon a little bit more than Jacob Dobish. A guy with literally no playoff experience, you know. So, I mean, again, I feel like this is a pretty long series. six or seven for sure, and I'll take, I'll take Buffalo. But, you know, I just, the more I look at it, the more I go, is this, is this just a one-team conference?

Is this Carolinas to, like, walk through? You know, because, like, I think these are two good teams. I think Carolina, you know, I'm obviously getting very far ahead of myself, but I just, I just wonder how much juice either team would have against Carolina, you know? Yeah. And there's, like, it never works out as simply as it seems. No, of course. There's going to be twists and turns.

But you're right. I mean, I would imagine Caroline was pretty happy to see Tampa go out. Yep. Yep. But, I mean, by the time you get to that series, whoever, assuming Caroline even does, to state the obvious, the teams you're playing is going to have won two rounds. They're going to be, they're going to be feeling pretty good about themselves. Yeah, the confidence will be.

high for sure. All right, why don't we take a break and we'll come back and we'll talk about some other stuff. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Raycon and folks. If you're someone who likes getting outside at this time of year when the weather is getting nicer, it's nice and warm today.

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All right, we're back, and now I'm going to drop the leash. Big Dog, get out there, go run. What do you think? I mean, I thought it went great. I thought it was really well done by everyone involved. So the Maple Leafs have hired John Chacon. The reports were true. Doesn't it feel like we knew about this for a full week?

It does, yeah. Which I thought, I had at some point convinced myself that they were trial ballooning it and that the reaction had been so negative that they were going to rethink. But no, apparently they would just, that's how long it took to work out contracts. Even though nobody cared about their title, it still took a week to get a deal done for John Chaka and Matt Sundin. And they had a press conference yesterday.

How'd that go? You know what? I'm going to give Keith Pelly some credit. that dude that dude came into that press conference he was feeling it he was I don't know if you watched it live I did not

so I mean it it didn't make the highlights but he started he started strong he was cracking jokes he was uh he seemed like a dude who thought this was going to go well let's just say uh

and and then it and then it didn't go all that well. Now, as far as what Sundane and Cheka, and even Keith Pelle had to say, like, I don't think there was anything super remarkable there. Obviously, what everyone's talking about is the tone of the questions, specifically Steve Simmons, just

absolutely roundhouse kicking. Okay. Both Pelley and Chaka. This was like in a kung fu movie where a guy manages to kick both guys on the same. Yeah. Yeah. Have you, are you familiar with the Simpsons? I guess it's kind of a meme at this point where it's like Martin, Martin turns around to Bart and says,

now you must promise not to fall in love with me. And Bart goes, oh, even Martin score it off me now. That's how I felt about Steve Simmons getting in there. And absolutely dropping the fucking hammer on, uh, on this hire. And I'll just, I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but it was something along the lines of,

so look, we've all known this hire was coming for like a week now, like, like Sean said. And so I spent the last week talking to dozens of people across the NHL. A lot of names. 20 was the number. Okay.

A lot of names are like people you've heard of, and a lot of names are people you maybe haven't heard of, but are like really well respected behind the scenes. They have their finger on the pulse, that kind of thing. And only one guy thought this was a good hire. Yep. And the ones who didn't think it was a good hire used words like con artist and liar and salesman. Uh-huh.

And it's like, well, and then he's like, so what do you think about that basically? What do you think about that? At which point? And it's like, fuck man. Pelly gives him the, Pelly goes, oh, I guess we talk to different people, which is,

you know, it's a B minus comeback. But Simmons then goes, that's it. It's a jerk store comeback, right? Simmons goes, that's it. Like, just no sells it completely.

Oh, I didn't even hear that part. That's so fucking funny. There's like this, just a half a beat of awkward silence. And Simmons goes, that's it. Like, that's your answer to the question. and oh man and look i i understand that steve simmons is a polarizing visorizing guy he has i've said this before

he he has spent the last decade committing the one unpardonable sin among media people which is that he's not good on twitter uh so everybody just assumes that they they know him and he's a jerk and all this other stuff. And he's also, like, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's an old school columnist. He's a little shin kicker, right? Like, he is, like, he's the Larry Brooks and everything else. He views that as the problem for him, the problem for him, in addition to being bad on Twitter, loves being wrong. Can't fucking get enough of it.

Often wrong. Does not have a good read on almost anything in this sport. Well. And so, this is, this is my. ultimate conclusion on on this hire i know a lot of like the stats people that steve simmons hates right those those those guys are like the people i came up in the in the sport with or whatever you want to say they all think john chake is a phony too you know what i mean like a higher to unite the get out of your mom's basement crowd and the i never need to watch a game i have

my spreadsheets crowd on we think this guy's full of shit. How do you thread that? That's like, you know, one out of a million chance that you could do this as the, as the leaves. Because let me put it this way. Normally, if Steve Simmons asked that question in the press conference and I didn't know who he was talking about, I'm like, okay, obviously whoever like Steve Simmons is mad, they're hiring, they made a great hire. I honestly.

But it's both sides of the eye. going, this guy sucks. So I saw like some people who were like, what was Leafs PR thinking? Like how did they let this question happen? And part of me is like, they were probably thrilled to see Steve Simmons put his hand up. Yeah.

Because they're thinking, oh, if Simmons craps on it, that's going to win over half the fan base at least. And no, and I'll get, look, you're right. Like, especially Simmons showed, his behind on analytics for the better part of a decade. No two ways about it. But I will say this. When it comes to like just knowing people around the league, there's not a lot of people who've

been doing this as long as he has. I don't doubt for a second. If I had to bet, I'd say when he says he talked to 20 people, he's probably underselling. Now. Yeah. And how many of those were the guys who sold Phil Kesselow's hot dogs? Yeah. It's 10 out of the 200 hockey men, you know, 20 out of the 200 hockey men, for sure.

You know, I don't think he's necessarily plugging into too many of the new generation on this, but I don't doubt for a second that it's, and so he asks a question. And the thing is, if you're Keith Pelley or John Chaka, because the question was asked to Pelley, but it, you know, it was a Chaka question. question too. Of course. You can, you, you, you, you, almost certainly weren't expecting that sort of question. Like, in, in, in that level of

hostility. That level of hostility. That is very unusual for any kind of like, I can't, like, have, we seen something like that since Pissygate in Edmonton? And even that, Pissygate,

Pissigate is like, a bunch of people going, oh, right, with the fucking pissy thing. Everybody was on Simmons's side on this one. That's the remarkable thing. And go ahead. Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying it's, you would not necessarily have expected that kind of question. But if you strip out the hostility, the question itself is basically, there's been a lot of negative reaction of this already. This leaked out a week ago. Everybody's known it's coming. The reaction has been very negative. What do you?

say to those detractors, which is a question you absolutely should have expected in some form. Yes. And for Keith Pelley to just be like, oh, I talked to different people. Like, that was it. That's what they had ready to go on that, is a pretty remarkable misreading of the room. And, you know, maybe if Pelley comes back with a, like, a good answer to the question, then maybe you do get what you. you were, you're talking about, which is everybody goes, ah, Simmons, you know, I, I mean,

I remember when, like, Ron Wilson would say, like, would hit Steve Simmons with, like, the most, the lowest grade comebacks, you can imagine. And people, and everybody's like, Ron Wilson, dug out. Simmons got old. Like, people are still talking about, like, Jose Batista, like, owning this guy on Twitter all these years ago. Like, maybe we would have gone down that road again, but it's just, like, Pelly was so, oh, I, I don't think. think the onions worst guy you know

image has gotten more of a workout than it did on hockey Twitter yesterday. I mean, that was... You're probably right. And also, I'll just say, shout out to Steve said. I wouldn't have had the balls to drop a question like that. To put it that way?

I wouldn't have. Now, Keith, you're up there sitting next to a snake oil salesman. A real flim-flam man. And, like, because the crazy thing is, like, John Jake is sitting there when he's saying this guy's a phony, this guy's a fraud, like that's... His family is sitting there in like little leaf jerseys, his kids.

But you're right. Like the balls on Simmons to say that with all that context, like you got to hand it to him. Full stop. But bigger picture to zoom out from just the Steve Simmons of it all, Jonas Siegel had the column yesterday. This is an unserious hire and this is. like making the hockey team look like fucking bozos.

And, you know, you can go down the list. The reaction from everybody is we have the knives out for this guy. One wrong move and he's fucking cooked in this city. And like, again, like you're saying, the, the PR angle to this has to be considered. And if you're trying to. to make Leifes fans confident in what you're doing, you are off on not just like the wrong mile, not even the wrong foot,

you know what I mean? It's crazy to me that this is their hire with this organizational structure. Because we haven't mentioned Matt Sundin is the senior advisor to hockey, whatever the fucking title is like. Human is what he is. And if you weren't sure about that, the fact that they brought out Wendell, Duggy, and Darcy Tucker for that press conference was just like.

Pathetic, man. You guys remember these guys. You like them. Don't yell at us. It absolutely lays bare what is going on here. And look, I like Sundin. I'm happy to have him back in the organization. I'm actually more optimistic on him being hired as a whatever his title is.

the advisor as opposed to president of hockey ops, like the head of hockey operations when he has no experience at that at all. But it's very clear what is happening here. And it's what is happening is, I'm Keith Pelly, I'm going to bring back Matt Sundin. Everybody will be happy because they, you know, you had a poster of this guy.

when you were six years old, you like him. Can't be mad at him. Everyone's going to be happy that Matt Sundin is there. And then I will hire my pick for GM. And I'm very smart. I'm smarter than everyone. So even if I pick someone that no one else seems to like, that's fine.

We'll just kind of hide behind mats. And it'll be great. And I think, you know, John Chaka is, I've mentioned this before. If you go and read some of the stuff that he's put out there, post-Coyotes, specifically the Sportico piece that I mentioned, I think, last week, he is very clearly incredibly fluent in corporate bullshit talk. Yeah.

Which is Keith Pelley's native language. Oh, absolutely. So this is what I was going to say. Yeah. is I think that, you know, when we talk about like who is a good or bad hire to run your hockey team, hockey operation, whatever you want to call it, you can go with the 200 hockey men guy. You can go with the computer boy guy. The one kind of guy you really can't go with is the corporate guy. You know what I mean?

The guy who's like, let's lose sky that. Let's circle back. Let's blah, blah, blah. All the fucking... Synergies. Yeah, all that shit. You've got to be fluent in AI. No.

You've got to have people who are fluent in AI or whatever, you know. Like, you don't have to... Let's put it this way. I don't think Lou Lamarillo when he was running teams was sitting down at his computer and banging away in Excel or whatever the fuck, right? Like, it just wasn't happening. He probably was, but he was trying to send an email while he was doing it. That's exactly right. Sounds good.

And that's in cell A12 or whatever. But when you are making decisions based on, like you say, the corporate bullshit of it, like how good this guy is a corporate bullshit, you're in deep trouble day one. And look, okay, let me say this in defense of John Chaka. and you know me I love to be like oh let's really hear we're going to put this out on all the socials let's really hear him out but like okay everything the coyotes did after the ownership chain the marulo ownership regime comes in yes everybody but john chaka it seems like gets a free fucking pass well look i mean look at who owned the team look at what the situation they were in was blah blah blah

blah. You can't count anything that happened with the players against them. You can't count anything, you know, go down the list, right? And to that point, I saw Jonas Siegel's article yesterday. He's like, he gave Oliver Recman-Larsen that crazy contract that everybody thought was crazy at the time. I don't remember people really feeling that way at the time, but sure. That later got bought out. And it's like, well, it got bought out by a different team because he traded. the fucking contract. So I can't really hold that against him necessarily. But like, oh, he could have drafted Quinn Hughes.

Yeah, like six teams could have drafted Quinn Hughes before he got drafted. So like that, obviously Barrett Hayton was a miss. I'm not saying. But like, there is enough there that I can kind of buy. He looks a little competent for a while. You know what I mean? Ultimately, I think you don't get where you want to go with this guy running the team, unless where you want to go is Austin Matthews doesn't play here anymore, in which case, you know, congratulations. I think you're on the right path.

But, like, I think, I don't think it's going to be a fucking disaster or anything, at least right out of the gate. Okay. I think it will be approached pretty competently and very, but what I think people won't like is, that will be approached very cautiously. For example, it doesn't look like Craig Barubi's getting the fucking pink slip after all. So, okay, put a pin in that because I do want to just circle back quick. Okay. When it comes to Cheka, I will tell you two things that I, that barely enter the equation for me as far as judging him.

Okay. Number one is how he left Arizona. Yep. And number two is the whole combine thing. The combine thing, look, I mean, if you're, they screwed up, they got, they got penalized for it. Obviously, there's lessons learned there. But as far as scandalous behavior by people in the NHL, if what he was trying to do was get a competitive advantage and he just screwed it up, I can live with that. Don't, I don't care about that.

and then the fact the mess in Arizona I give him 90% of a pass on that because I just think that whole I mean those he had an idiot owner and the owner's idiot kid to deal with so sure

I don't the way that he exited the even the fact that he quit right before the playoffs you know was had one eye on reportedly New Jersey I can I can talk myself out of worrying about that. But you're still left with a guy who had,

essentially four years as a GM, didn't win much of anything, had a very mixed track record, and then has been out of the league for six years. Did he, you know, did you hear his name for certain? Yeah, I mean, every now and then you did. But I mean, this wasn't a guy who, like, took a step back, went and got hired somewhere as an assistant GM

or a director of analytics or something and kind of like, you know, he just went and did his own thing, you know, managed to Wendy's. I mean, it sounds like a punchline, but that's,

that's what, what he and his wife were doing. And... Yeah, Sean, would you say he's getting a frosty reception in Toronto? I don't, I don't get it.

Can you explain? Okay. Okay. So, I mean, still, like, this is, like,

strip away the, the fact that he's clearly got a lot of detractors in the league, which you can't really strip away, because those are the people you've got to be dealing with. And if everyone's got the knives out for you, then that already makes it tough.

But just the track record here, if he had those four years in Columbus instead of it, so you know, you take all the condority and it was just a guy who was the GM of the Blue Jackets for four years and they never made the playoffs, and then he didn't do anything for five years. And now he's the Leafs GM.

That would be pretty, rough. Now, the Barubei thing, this is the early canary in the cold line, because it's the easiest possible decision. It is absolutely a, I like Craig Baroubae a lot. I liked him as a hire. It hasn't worked. You have to make a coaching change here. And the only reasons that you don't are, A, because your owner's gone cheap all of a sudden, which we've heard is happening in Toronto. A distinct possibility, yep. And two, because you're doing that whole thing where you're a new GM,

so I'm not going to play this card right away. I think that's exactly what's happening. Keep it in my back pocket. Craig Burby will be fired in December. And then, you know, you can't start the clock on the GM until he gets to hire his own coach. And just, which is, I mean, that's what most. It's playing scared.

It's what most GMs would do, but this is not what the Toronto Maple Leafs need in this era of urgency of the, you know, the tail end, presumably of the Matthews era. We don't have a year to dick around and get the lay of the land and all this stuff. And so, like, I don't mind that he had nice things to say about Craig Brub at the press conference.

If you are going to make a change, you do that through the proper channels. You don't trash a guy. publicly before you've made you change. So that, that's fine. If Craig Brewbe is fired this week, I don't care that they said nice things of the press conference.

But if he's not, like that is just the easiest slam dunk indicator that this is, as Jonas says, not a serious organization and that this is all just scams and con artists and people and Keith Pelley being too dumb to realize that when smoke is being blown up his corporate behind

and the Leafs are doomed, completely and totally doomed. Yeah, like, okay, let me ask you this too, along the lines of what you just said. What if they already have maybe not 100% confirmed, but a pretty good idea that Austin Matthews has done when his contract? practice up. How does that affect your assessment of this, of all this? I mean, I don't know how they could know that because it's, you know, that's a conversation. You got to have directly with him. But let's say that that is indeed the case. Then you, your number one, two, three, four, and five priorities are to sit down with Austin Matthews and say, okay, what does the trade look like this summer?

Yep, this summer, I think is correct. And if it's, well, you know, I kind of want to, like, you just look them right in the eye and you say, we're not doing the Mitch Marner thing again. We cannot. Yep. So we, hey, big guy, this is your team. We love you. We want you to stay. We will do whatever it takes to get you to stay. But if you don't want to stay, we can't play around. Yeah. And again. Do they have the ability to do that? Has Keith Pelley already decided that Matthews and Nielander have to stay?

Is Chaka the guy that is going to, you know, when Matthew's agent says, yeah, you can trust this guy. You can work with them. I don't know, man. It's all setting up to be potentially a huge, huge disaster. And look, I mean, I guess to close on it, could it work? Yeah, of course it could. This is the NHL, man. Like, half the teams of the league get loaded into a blender every year,

and we just hit random, and who knows what's going to happen. So, yeah, I mean, it could add, like, the whole bunch of them could be doing victory laps a year, however many years from now. And I'd love, as a fan, that'd be awesome. I hope John Chaker gets to make his little Pittsburgh Penguins, we flip the script video, and they're using clips of me, in there talking crap about them and how wrong I was.

I'm not getting that vibe right now. No. Let's just say. Well, can I say this? When I thought maybe they were going to make a coaching change, I was thinking they were going to hire the guy that used to coach the Bruins, Julian, because Claude is the name of the AI. There you go.

Oh, that could be it. And then you just, how long do you think they could go? He's just a mannequin with an iPad on his head. How long do you think they could go with Chaka talking about, like, well, I talked to Claude today and Keith Peli thinking it was the AI. That's right. And not realizing that the coach is, oh, that's a great.

They got to go and acquire Alex Afollow as well. He's the only AI in the league. So, oh, my God. All right. I will close. on this by just saying it could be worse and asking you, have you seen, since we start out recording, the reports emerging on Twitter about who is the favorite in Vancouver to get their GM job?

Yeah, it's Pierre Dory. So, I mean... Look, you got, if you have, what we're learning this week is, if you have the opportunity to hire a GM who cost his old team a first round pick, you've got to hire him. dude it's you can't pass that up Lou La Marello coming back strong in the next couple of weeks here

Which would be worse And just if for To update our buddies on SportsNet 650 We're saying They think Pierre Dorian's going to get the job And Gerg Weishnowski from Espin says He is also hearing that

That is the way the wind is blowing So it's not the level of certainty even that was around Cheka and the Leafs a few days ago, but trending that way. I'll tell you, man. Which should be worse? I think Cheka's a worse hire. We never heard one word. We never heard one word about the summer of John, did we? You know what?

Did anyone ever come up to John Chaker and hug him in the dressing room? Thank you, John Chaker. Thank you, sir. with big burly men with tears in their eyes. And the coyotes, I mean, say what you will about them. Were they ever a team? I don't think once. I don't think one time it happened.

So. I feel like Dorian would be a bigger surprise in Chicago. Bigger surprise, yes. But worse, higher, no. Worst higher? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, Cheika plus Peli plus everything. Leafy, I think beats out

Dorian and Rutherford and Vancouver and all that, but it's tough, man. I'm not sitting here saying it's good. You know, who must love this is the sportsnet guys who have spent a billion dollars to broadcast Canadian hockey.

They're probably really happy with... Can I tell you how I found out about this decision? Yes. Is my friend Stefan from I hate this team, the the Vancouver Canucks podcast.

He posted, if the Canucks hire Pierre fucking Dorian, I think I'm fully done with them. A lifetime of fandom out the window truly cannot fathom hiring one of the only GMs nearly as stupid and incompetent as Jim Benning. But I guess this is the worst run team in all of pro sports for a reason.

So they're taking it well over there. Yeah. I got to say, and, you know, obviously, I feel like every sports fan, if you've done it long enough, at some point you said I'm out and you didn't mean it

I have never seen so many Lee fans saying I'm out as this week I remember like they were losing in the playoffs especially the Habs one there were a lot of fans saying maybe I'm out I don't know

yeah I'll believe it when I see it on all that kind of shit honestly for me I mean attendance has been dropping ratings have been dropping like it's it's I don't know we'll see all those all those genius

who have the super smart take that the Leafs don't try to win because they make money anyways Right. Might be about to find out. Yeah, getting an answer one way or the other. All right, before we get to Losers Corner here, I did want to briefly talk about

the Dylan Holloway extension coming out right before the Oilers lost. Yeah, that was nice. That was pretty nice. Um, uh, five years, seven point seven, five million bucks. What did he sign this contract in 2019? This is a steal for St. Louis. How does he get away giving up, uh, getting that little money?

It's crazy to me. Yeah. Great job. Great job by the Blues. This is a good player making the damn difference for them. Um, but we will use that to pivot into losers corner, the Edmonton Oilers. Boy. this is

just a just a tour of Canada right now like do you realize the Winnipeg Jets went from President's trophy winner

to missing the playoffs and their best player was like yeah it sucks here yeah and they might be the fifth worst

team in Canada right now as far as just vibes and narrative like like Montreal's good Calgary is like in the draft. Yeah, I'd say Calgary.

They're 29th and Calgary is a clear second best. Yeah, I think you're right about that. Yeah. Like they're not even nobody, they can't even see anyone in the, you know, when they adjust their rearview mirror the way that they often do out in Calgary. They don't even see anybody. They can't even the rest of the, they just see like a cloud of dust where the pile up is. Then you get to like Winnipeg versus Ottawa.

I think there's an argument who feels. worse. Yeah. Boilers, Canucks, Leifes, oh man. Yeah. Not good. Not good that they lost.

Not good that they lost the way they did with gold-ending being part of the story and, you know, Stan Bowman and all that. And definitely not good that Leon Drysidal

and then Carter McDavid both were kind of like, yeah, this needs to change. Clock's ticking. brother. Yep. Clocks. I mean, part of me is a little bit surprised

that we haven't heard anything out of Edmonton about either a coaching change or a GM change. I mean, I don't I guess there's still time, but also I don't know, man. Could I run it back? Yeah. I mean,

they kind of don't have a job. I think somebody's getting fired, maybe multiple somebody's. But like, I wonder how long Stan Bowman has given the whole they can just point right to the goal tending and go this was your idea man yeah no I mean I think Stan Bowman has he been there two years or three

I believe so yeah even then I think you could say you were brought in to get this thing over the finish line that was the whole the whole idea that that's why he made sense as a hire he had taken a good young Chicago team that was right there and he had pushed him over the finish line so he was going to do the same thing in Emmetton and it has been two years I looked it up we're not any closer

and you screwed up the goal tending thank you goodbye and bring in well I mean I was going to say Pierre Dorian but I guess they were too slow one who would be next we've seen Jake and Dorian get hired like is it is it time for the John Ferguson Jr

let's get it going man He's at least been doing something for the last couple of decades. Is that true, though? Yeah. I mean, what's he doing? He's an assistant GM everywhere. I don't know. He was in Boston.

Yeah, that's one of those things, though, where it's like, yeah, I pick up the phone three times a year, and they give me $500,000. It's three more times than Dorian and Jacob. For sure, yeah. I just love looking at the Edmonton Oilers Puckpedia page. 47 million committed to to forwards next season and that's like nine forwards

total. Now granted, they have two of the very best in the world. They also have like Trent Frederick on a no move clause. You know what I'm saying, brother? Only for three more years, though, so don't get too worked up about it. Darnell nurse contract gets better every day. What's that?

Oh, it sucks. Huh, it's crazy. Could have seen that coming. But at least Tristan Jari has trade protection for next season. That's nice. Yeah, at least that's, man. They traded the guy who was at least on an expiring deal for. Yeah, that's right.

They got worse. It was great in the playoffs. No, but he was certainly better than what Edmonton had. Not to interrupt, but I just like, just across my timeline Thomas Dran's Yes, Pierre Dorian is the next

Canucks GM is a strong possibility that league sources have told us I'm worried about it. Dran said I'm worried about it? It's in the, yeah, I'm worried about it, says Thomas Grants. Oh,

put a little, I mean, in that one, holy, yeah, old Tommy, got to go into that press conference

with a list of insults that other people have told Bar has been set high. Oh, my God, imagine they hired Dorian. Like, that press conference is going to be... I'm imagining it. Just, just Drance his hand waving while they're like, okay, nobody else?

No, no. Anyone else from the team website? Have a question? Yeah, it'll be like... They're just dragging the Sedeans and Trevor Linden up in front of the crowd. Like, God, look at them. You're going to make them cry? It'll be like when a guy's going for a triple double and he just needs a couple of rebounds.

and if they're a miss shot and everybody on his team just goes 40 feet away from the basket. There's one guy getting this one. That's what it's going to be like for Drans asking questions up there for sure. Yeah, to me, this is very tough for the Oilers. Like, you know what I'm doing if I'm McDavid? I'm not even joking. Let's get the clock started now. You have, if we're not like January 1st, if we're not first in our division, trade my ass.

I don't want to be around here. This team sucks. Like, I think that's a real thing he could and maybe should do. Because he, how much money did he leave on the table to, to give Stan Bowman the flexibility he needed to fix the team? And Stan Bowman's like, got it. Tristan Jari. Yes, absolutely. Yep.

What? Yeah. I mean, it was this has been the same, we've been saying this for years, right? McDavid leaves money on the table because even his eight-year deal left money at the table, right?

He leaves money on the table, the orders give it to some crappy winger to play on McDavid's line and be passable only because of McDavid. And then around and around and now they're locked in on the goaltending. I mean, yeah, like,

But SG had a good piece. I think it was him and Chris Johnson worked together on how the Oilers got here. It's ugly. So I don't know where you go next. I mean, you still got a good team. You were still in the playoffs. And we should mention that McDavid had like a fracture he was playing on.

Yeah, broken foot, I think they said. So, I mean, it's very valid to say, like you weren't winning the Stanley Cup this year. No, you definitely weren't. If Connor McDavid breaks his foot. And Drysidal was probably playing hurt as well. Drysadles banged up and all of that. You weren't winning the cup anyways, whoever the goal was.

But, yeah, like that, dry sidle and McDavid both kind of saying, like, help, please. Like, we are blinking in Morse code. Send reinforcements. Yep. Stan Bowman's like, best I can do is something forward. I can trade for the third best defense. He goes, I can trade for the third best defenseman on the Chicago Blackhawks. How does that sound?

Wait a second. Hold on. Now I'm doing the Andre the Giant. Like, whoa, remember that gift where he's like scared? That's what I'm doing when I hear how Stan Bowman plans to fix this. Let's move on now to another team in the Western Conference, Utah. I don't have a ton to say about these guys. They're a perfectly good team that feels like they're on the upswing.

they don't have enough difference makers. That's what it boils down to for me. I don't know where they are getting difference makers either is, I guess, the big, because, like, JJ Paterka was supposed to be their big difference maker. And he was, what, do you have 25 goals this series? He had a good season. He was good. But I don't feel like it was given how the deal was.

Yeah, the other thing about it, though, to me, me is like, you look at the middle of their lineup and you go, yeah, we need, we need Logan Cooley to take a big old step is, is basically what it boils down to because the, the middle of their lineup, like Nick Schmaltz, Lawson Krauss, Dylan Gunther, these are good players, but they're, maybe I'm being a little unfair to Gunther. But, again, they're just not teams that can hang in that division in particular. Or, you know what I mean. I said that weird, but you know what I mean? Like, you just, in that division, every good team has two, three difference makers. And I would argue Utah has maybe one for next year of luck. I think one.

I feel good saying Clayton Keller's that guy. Yep. And the other thing is like two years down Utah. Cool, he could be one. two years in Utah I'm kind of like I think we just have to accept this is a

regular NHL team there was remember when they first moved and everybody was like okay now that the chains are off and Ryan Smith's going to come in and he's going to spend money and you look out remember that

that first draft a couple years ago it was like here come the trades and they got surgachev and then that was it more or less, you know, other than that, they've been a perfectly fine team doing perfectly fine

NHL things, but that's about it. Yeah. Yeah, I don't have a ton to say about them either. Like I feel like they're on a good path, but they're also not that far off the Seattle path where it's like, all right, you know, are we just going to try to get two points better

every year until, until what? We make the second round and then... Yeah, like, Obviously, I'm, you know, I think we can all agree that T. Ginglin is probably coming in next year. And they have a bunch of money to spend, if I'm remembering right? So, you know, that probably, that probably works out pretty well for them, you know, in the long run. Let's see here. Yeah, it says they have about 14 million to spend and not a ton of guys to recite.

Barrett Hayton is the, is the guy who needs a new contract. And other than that, it's just kind of. depth guys. So they could go out and get some help and they have the resources to trade for it, which I think is a preferable thing. Like, did you see that thing Adam Gretz posted the other day about like how NHL teams like or teams in the second round acquired all their players? I did, yes.

Very interesting. The amount of guys who got traded for in the second round. And I think that's maybe a reference. reflection of the flat cap thing. Honestly. Just like you got to move guys around because you can't maybe move money around creatively. But what if you sat on your hands and just did nothing for an entire season? Hold on a minute.

Yeah, that sounds great. Wait, no, you got to trade for a goalie who sucks too. Oh, okay. Yeah, that would, yeah. So, yeah, I think we can agree that Utah is on the, the come up or whatever you want to say, but they need some help. And if they, you know, trade a first round pick or something like that around draft time, I wouldn't be surprised.

But that's, that's it. Here's a team that is not on the come up, the Boston Bruins. Well, I mean. No, no, no, no. We don't have to do this. No, no, no. We don't have to do it. I've got a hundred points this year.

They're going to get the six pick in this year's draft. Marco Sturm had the quote on their like breakup day or whatever where he basically said, yeah, look, we got here because Jeremy Swayman went fucking crazy. And we can't count on that to happen every year. Okay. And he's right. That's exactly what happened. They were they were a decent team this year, not a particularly good one apart from the goalie. And Posternach is not getting any younger, right?

Like, is Morgan Geeky going to have a year like he did this year, 39 goals or whatever it was? I'm going to lean no on that. Elias Lindholm, they still have that contract? Oh, yeah, they have it until 2031. What's Casey Middlestat? Still not sure. What's Pavel Zaka? Not really.

Victor Arvinson. That guy, oh, he's not even signed for next year. Never mind. Tanner Genoa. He's still locked. Like, all their money guys are. either David Posternak or probably overperformed a little bit this year. Right.

Up front. And then on the back end, like, got to like McAvoy, Linholm's probably still pretty good when he's healthy. Everything else, I'll just read it to you, Zadorov, Lori, Yokoharou, Peak, Harris, Aspero. that to me does not seem like a defense that gets you into the playoffs. So I can they make the playoffs next year? Sure they can. Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of teams overperformed in the East this year,

and they were one of them. But I don't see this as being a hundred point team going forward, unless big changes are happening, which I kind of don't think they have the appetite for. Okay. That's fair. and it makes me feel a little bit better about the Atlantic. So that's nice to bring in Hagen's like you kind of alluded to, obviously.

But there doesn't feel like there's a ton of help beyond that on the way in here. That's all. They're getting the six pick tonight. So maybe they'll get another Higgins. They could. I mean, whoever they take with that pick is a guaranteed Hall of Famer. So that part's nice. Another team.

not on the come up, the Pittsburgh Penguins. Yeah, I don't know where this one goes, but... It's tough. Have we seen the end of the trio? The triplets, whatever you want to call. Boy, it kind of feels that way, doesn't it? And if so, who and how does it... Like, is it La Tang that goes?

Is Malkin done two? The Tang signed for two more years. So unless he's leaving money on the table or hitting Robida Island, And I don't know. I don't know how they make that happen. But Malkin's out of contract is what it basically boils down to. If he, here's the, here's the one scenario. He takes a one year deal to line him up with Crosby's contract and then see you later.

Like the true, true last dance. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe. That's the only, that's the only way. But yeah, I don't. I don't know, man. It's such a, it's a multiple of years.

Oh, yeah. Like in this league, you're not even allowed to like move on from a third line guy with who's been there for a while if you're, you know, if you're a GM who's looking to rebuild. Well, you can't, you can't, you can't. You can't. Sure. But this is of Gennie Malkin. This is a future Hall of Famer. This is a guy that won you three cups.

Um, I obviously I understand why in much the same way we were talking, um, on the bonus episode about like, Alex Ovechkin probably made the Washington capitals one billion dollars. So if he wants to come back on some shitty contract that you hate next year, you kind of just bite the bullet. I agree with that. And I agree with like, that's probably how you should treat Malkin as well. But not if you want to really be around. getting better, you know? Yeah, yep. This is another team

that undoubtedly overperformed this year. We all thought this was a lottery team. I mean, we all thought this was, this team was tanking and was going to get the number one overall pick. That's what I'm saying, yeah. And the one team, everybody agreed was tanking

at the beginning of the year. Yeah. And so, yeah, like you said, they posted the video of like, ah, we proved everybody wrong. And it's like, I bet Kyle Duvus was sitting there going, I really wish we'd lose

some of these fucking games, man. Yep. You know? Yep. But yeah, I just, I mean, you look at the, the, I'm just going to read the ages of their forward group, Sean. And I know I do this all the time, but bear with me. 38, 39, 33, 33, 33, 29, 31, 25, 34, 24, 28, 28, 28, 24, 26, 19.

Like, that's an old group, especially because all the, all the guys at the top are, like making the most money and they're 38, 39, 33, you know, like, it's easy to say, well, you don't bring back Kevin Hayes or Anthony Manta. I agree, obviously, you know, but you got to replace those guys with who? I don't know. It's tough, man. And then, again, LaTang just seems like he is fucking cooked. I actually don't hate their defense overall, but I, I don't.

I would like to see them figure out something with Latang because I can't, I don't know how long you tolerate this. But, yeah, anyway, maybe Seelovs is, it really is this good. Maybe. It's, I think it's a distinct possibility, but anyhow. The Dallas Stars. It's, I had them ranked really high in my pressure rating. where it's like, all right, if making the conference final every year isn't good enough, what happens if they go out in the first? I do wonder if, I think there is a case to say we drew a really tough matchup and injuries hit us at the worst time.

Yep. And, yeah, you know, that doesn't mean it's okay to go out early. It doesn't mean that, you know, you just shrug it off, but you also, let's not go crazy here. Let's not overreact. Obviously, they got to figure out the Jason Robertson thing. But beyond that, it's tough. It's, I, as much as I always feel like I look at teams and I go, like, you got to do something. You got to do that.

I guess there's a case to be made here that you just kind of have to swallow this one and then keep going. I think that's right. But the other thing I wanted to say about them in particular is if you need Miko Rantan into because fuck, who wrote the art? I think it was Lazarus wrote the article that was like, where's the Jamie Ben from last season? It's like, oh, the greatest playoff performance of all time. Yeah, if that's all you need to get out of the first round, maybe you do have bigger problems. Was it Miko Rantanin, you mean? What did I say?

You said Jamie Ben. Oh, yeah, no, it was. They needed Jamie Ben from a decade ago would have. They certainly, yeah. I mean, that's another guy that they need to make a decision. decision on because he's 36 it says here. Yeah. And needs a new contract.

He seems willing to stick around cheap. So he was on a $1 million contract with performance bonuses this year. So like he can easily do that again. But like I'd be a little iffy on the performance bonuses. But yeah. So with Miko Ranting him, you know, he was playing hurt for a good chunk of the season. and all that. But to me,

A, I think that that playoff last year got him super overrated in the mind of the average person. Where I just think who could possibly replicate that series he had last year. That was fucking crazy.

You know? And to be like, hey, all you're going to do is just go out there and do that every year and we'll be fine. You know,

it's a little bit of the McDavid, like, I got to do everything myself, huh? Oh, that sucks. You know. Meanwhile,

Robertson, they're like, oh, this guy's a bum. We hate him. And he's their best player in the playoffs. I'd be wanting to upgrade my defense if I was them. That's what it really boils down to.

Yep, they got Harley, they got Heiskenen. They have also Iliulabushkin, Tyler Myers. Like, there's some obvious wiggle room to work with there. But,

But otherwise, like you say, I think you just say the playoff format fucked us, we need to get healthier. Off you go. Yeah. For one more year, maybe, and then. Well, so what's interesting is. Yeah, I think, I think it's not hard to say this in retrospect. I wouldn't have fired Pete DeBore. That guy is a really good coach.

Yep. Is Glenn Gulletson a really good coach? I haven't seen a lot of evidence of that. I have three straight Western Conference final appearances from the other guy who, you know, maybe, maybe that's something. The other thing to say about the stars, though, is, is Tyler Sagan, like, done, done? Or was he just on season-ending LTIR this year? Because that's a lot of money tied up for next season on a guy that, again, didn't get to play a lot this season. He was playing well before he got hurt,

but I don't know what Tyler's saying looks like coming back at age 35 with coming off a season ending injury. So, yep. You need clarity on that. Obviously, they would have it. Yes, it is. Finally? Yeah.

So, yeah, I think that they have some questions to answer, but they're going to be fine next year. And finally, the Tampa Bay Lightning. What do you think? I tweeted out, man. The Cracken, the Rangers, the Canucks have won a playoff round more recently

than this Lightning team. Four years in a row of first round exits now. Two things. First of all, it's becoming apparent that if you lose to the leaves in the playoffs, you will never win again. You need anything. Luckily, that particular contagion is not going to be too widespread.

Beyond that, I don't know, it's an old team. Window closing, I was impressed by what they did this year. I mean, I don't think the window is shut. Although, we know from history that sometimes when it does shut it, it happens a lot quicker. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'm not, I don't think they should fire John Cooper or anything like that. The question for me is whether Cooper just decides he wants out. Yeah.

I did everything I could do there, you know, let somebody else take it over, blah, blah, blah. And hey, that Utah job's looking pretty good. Yeah, yep. So, yeah, that's tough. And then we also got the Victor Headman news this morning. that he had he had been out, they announced

mental health reasons, which I do think is going to be interesting because everyone, we're so much smarter on that now than we were even a few years ago.

Yep. He's not going to take significant criticism. I wonder if anyone even goes there with the idea that your captain wasn't there

in a seven-game series. that, you know, every game was a one-goal game. I wouldn't. I disagree with that take, but I do wonder what it, if anyone goes there. But, you know, all the best to him. You hope he's good to go for next year. And, you know, and if he is, maybe it's no different. I mean, mental health is health, so maybe it's no different than Dallas.

He's sit there and go, we had a tough matchup, and one of our best players wasn't available for health reasons. So let's not overreact. I mean, the lightning have locked in on so many other guys that I don't know that they could overreact, even if they wanted to, other than something with Cooper. I think you just have to stay the course. They just have a lot of, uh, how do I want to say this? Like, it's not even bad money because like 4.1 million for Ryan McDonough, for example,

You're not like, this is outrageous, but it's just like they have a few too many deals like that for me where it's like that guy for three more years. Yeah, they locked in on a lot of guys like cheaply, but I mean, they were handing out eight year deals like crazy. Yeah, and like I totally get why they would because when you have a window like the lightning had, you have to do everything you can to maximize it and you don't worry about what the future looks. like three, four, five years from now. You know? What's interesting is Kuturov, who I didn't think had a very good playoff, like he was fine, but that's about it. One year left.

He's coming up at the end of his contract. Like next summer, he's a UFA. You know? That's a guy you build around. Two more years only for Vasselovsky. You know, it's just one of those things where like you said, it feels like we're getting to the end of something.

It really does. And if that's the case, like, I think you just run it back one more time and then whatever happens happens. You know, is this a team that feels likely to win the cup? Not really,

but it also doesn't feel like it's one that should be fucking tearing it down to the studs quite yet. Hmm. Yeah, I think that is coming. I think you look at, do you look at this coming season? And you go, like, we could be this year's Florida Panthers.

Obviously, the Panthers had the injuries and everything. But, you know, maybe it all falls apart like that. And I just, I feel like maybe you just take the risk. I don't know that you're well positioned to do anything else. Yeah. I think that's right. And that's all the teams that have been eliminated since the last time we did the show. So why don't we wrap up with this?

The draft lottery is tonight. How are we feeling? Oh, I'm feeling fantastic, Ryan. Yeah, I bet. I bet. I'm pulling up Tankathon now to look at the odds. It says you're a 100% chance that the leaves get bumped to sixth. Well, so, okay, obviously the Canucks are 25% odds.

25 and a half. To stay first. Yep. Not necessarily to win, but to stay first. Yep. So I know you wrote the article today. Who is the funniest team to win the, like, if they win, that's just funny. I mean, I think as funny as it will be when somebody jumps and passes the leaves.

And I think the Panthers are the funniest team to do that. Yeah, of course. Just given, you know, like, the Panthers continuing to own the Maple Leafs in May would be, in a year they both missed the playoffs, would be funny. I think the funniest answer is Detroit wins the lottery with the pick that they've traded to St. Louis. Because how many times have you heard

Red Wing fans talk about how crappy their lottery luck is? They never win the lottery. The Red Wings have never won the lottery. Did you know that? A lot. You didn't know that? That's crazy.

It's true. To finally win the lottery in a year that Steve I's been traded away to pick. With no protection at all. Now, they could only move up to, like, fifth, I think. It's not a... Fifth is the highest.

But that would still be very funny. So there's some weird stuff going on where 98% almost to pick 15th. They could drop back to 16th. That's a 1.1% chance. They could move up as high as fifth, also a 1% chance, 1.1. And one that is so barely above zero that it's just indicated of like, this isn't zero here to pick seventh. I need them picking seventh.

You want that one, eh? Yeah, that would be really funny. They win a lottery, not the lottery, but they win the second lottery. Yeah, that is the scenario I believe. And it comes in at the one in a thousand or whatever, yeah. Yeah, that's the scenario where they, like, Washington has to win the first lottery. Mm-hmm. And then, I guess Detroit wins the second one.

Yeah. Washington 1.1 to win the lottery. As the 16th team. I think it'd be pretty funny if Washington won. That'd be all right. Pretty funny. But frankly, the number one answer for me is the New York Islanders as far as funny goes. Just because they moved up a ton last time, obviously they couldn't move up to first this time.

But them picking third overall and maybe getting like Stenberg or something would be pretty good. Pretty good. Pretty good. What's the least funny? What's the one where you're just funny? Oh, Florida winning would be the least funny. Okay. I feel like Florida winning would be kind of fine.

I feel like Chicago winning is the least funny. No, you know what? Let's split the difference. The Rangers winning would not be funny at all. It would guarantee, we know Gavin McKenna's going to be a bum in the NHL if the Rangers are picking first overall, you know? That's what I say the bar is so low that, like, Gavin McKenna could have one good week and it'd be like, you are the greatest draft pick in the history of this franchise.

And even if that's not true, that's what Rangers fans will tell everybody about every. Campo cago, hey, he scored two goals last week. You obviously didn't see the shift. No, I guess I didn't. Yeah. Now, Sean, give me your prediction for who will win. Like, just what does your heart say is going to be the result here? Give me your top three.

I'm going to say my heart is a combo of Vancouver and then I'll say Florida, jumping ahead of the Leafs. Okay. That's the, that's, and I don't know whether Van Gogh. I mean, it's one of those years where there isn't a super clear

number one. Everyone's in Gavin McKenna, but Corey Promin had him at 50-50 to be the first overall pick. Yeah, my understanding is he's better than 50-50, but like you could, it's not hard to see a team going off the board. And you can, you know, obviously depends on who has the pick

and all of that, but. I think for me, in my heart of hearts, I do believe the Winnipeg Jets are winning this draft lottery. Okay. And then Vancouver's going to stay at two. That would be my guess. All right. But Canada just keeps winning when it comes to the NHL. Yep.

but they got to do they got to do something to to get everybody feeling good about the Winnipeg jets again you know okay and to have like a frozen ping pong ball or whatever they just have to put it outside in Winnipeg right now yeah all the ping pong balls in Winnipeg are frozen that's what I'm saying it comes back in it's like it's like when you take something out of the freezer and it's too cold to hold for a second this is a chunk of hail, he said, not fully understanding how weather works, but, you know. I saw there was softball-sized hail somewhere recently. Oh, you can't have that.

That's crazy. I don't think that should be allowed, but that's the way it goes. Sean, you got any plugs for me? Yeah, we've got the draft lottery power rankings are out today, as is the newsletter. I'll have more stuff this weekend. I will be on with SG and friends. Frankie tomorrow, we believe we got the crew back together. And I imagine we'll be talking about the Maple Leafs a little bit more.

So that should be fun. Yep. And then for me, I did my notebook for the playoffs yesterday. And I don't know. I got something in the work for later this week. But that might get pushed to next week depending on scheduling and stuff like that. So sign up for EAPI. It's draft ranking time and all that kind of stuff.

We just had our new top 100 come out, I think, last week. Draft is right around the corner. Draft guide coming, I'd say, within a month or so, if I had to guess. So now's the time to get signed up and smarten yourself up to all the kids that your teams will be drafting. And you can say, well, I know we won the draft, and here's why. And then you head over to patreon.com slash puck soup. You sign up for the bonus episodes and you get a whole bunch of them every single month, usually more than one a week and sometimes even more than that.

So, yeah, check that out, patreon.com slash puck soup. And we thank you for listening to the main show. And we're going to head over there and do a mailbag right now. Have a good day. Bye, bye.