Puck Soup - This Lottery Had Balls

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

The boys discuss the utter hilarity of "Placeholder Team" winning the NHL draft lottery and rate the worthiness of each potential winner of the second lottery for the top pick. Plus, Artemi Panarin makes a statement, players vs. owners, hub cities, an awesome new quiz about NHL jersey numbers and a deep dive into the best and worst Arnold Schwarzenegger films. Sponsored by Raycon!

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wyshinsky, the worldwide leader in sports, ESPN. Formerly home of ESPN Classic, which was formerly home of ESPN Classic, which was formerly home. of the five reasons you can't blame, which, interestingly enough, was the first show on which I ever appeared as a talking head. I don't know.

I've never heard of this show. Yeah, it was a fun show. On ESPN Classic, it was like, the hockey example would be like the five reasons you can't blame the neutral zone trap for killing hockey. Now, they never did that one, obviously. For a lot of reasons. Yeah. Five reasons you can't blame Pete Rose, you know, for not being in a Hall of Fame. Like classic sports argument examples.

And my first job as a talking head was on this show. The producers were a fan of something I did. I forget what. But like, they took you to a hotel room and they gave you like five different episodes that they might shoot. So in the 24 hours leading up to the show, I would just research the fuck out. out of everything and then like have a bunch of like one liners in my head because I had seen enough shows on VH1 to know how this worked right yeah you just have your little pop culture jokes and so they sit you in a room and they they you know there's a guy and there's a camera on you

and they ask you all these questions you just get you just get talking and then um occasionally they'll give you basically since I was like low man on the totem pole um they they told they They asked me all the questions that no one else had answered, like real specific shit that they knew they needed for the show. And sometimes it was to the point of being like, all right, what we need you to say here is, right? That kind of thing. And then there were other times when I would say something. And then they would be like, oh, that was good. Now, say it like you're a little bit like angrier.

And that's how the sausage was made. But I did like, I did like four or five episode, maybe six episodes of that show. and it was the first time I had ever done talking head stuff. I did the same kind of thing for NBC later, but that was, I think that was pre-crisis, Pierre Maguire mockery NBC, when they would actually, like, interact with me and do things with me before I started maligning one of their talents for the benefit of my own career. Anyway, what's up with you, Ryan?

Chilling, man. Hanging out, whatever. All right, we've blown up the intro. I'm Sean McAnew from the athletic. Oh, there it is. Oh, there we are. Okay, great. You're in Puck Soup.

We're obviously coming to you a little bit earlier than usual this week. Schedules are all jacked up for me and Sean. So we wanted to do a, we felt a certain obligation to do a show with all three of us. Because the minute the draft got fucked, everybody was reaching out to us on social media and being like, I can't wait for the next episode. That's a lot of pressure to just, like, not do it, right? Like, I can't wait for you guys to do this thing for me and then be like, I don't know, we're busy on Thursday.

So all three of us, the Triforce, has been united for this episode on the draft and other things. But, yeah, man, that draft, boy, howdy. How are we all feeling when Team E overcame seemingly insurmountable odds 2.5% chance of winning the lottery to win the lottery. Start with you, Lambert. Well, I mean, the second I saw Detroit flip over at four, I was like, oh, shit. It's about to get real interesting.

And it did. You know, I think the Kings are feeling pretty good about being two. And obviously, Team E, whoever that ends up being, has to feel great about being. number one, but I guess my initial reaction was this is not going to, like, quell any of the, the draft is fixed people. They are going to be out in full course because, oh, wow, crazy. Coincidence, the team in the biggest market, and then, I don't know, maybe Chicago, maybe Montreal, maybe the Rangers, they also get, they get to be Team E and get first overall pick.

Crazy coincidence how that works. By the way, it's 100% going to be Chicago, right? Like, we all agree on that? We'll get to that later on as far as the maybe ranking of teams that would produce the greatest result. But, Sean, I was trying to get a handle on your reaction to the draft because we briefly interacted on Twitter about this chaotic thing that happened. And you seem to be saying that the reaction to it. was a little bit overhyped in the sense that the mechanism of the draft itself was sort of the same. Was that what you were getting at?

Yeah, exactly. If you take away the fact that the mistake that they made was they didn't just wait until the end of the play in round to do this, that would have made so much more sense, right? Because then you don't have placeholders, you don't have Team E. You've just got the eight teams that lost the play in round being dropped. into those slots. But other than that, this was the exact same format that we've had for five years. And I feel like a lot of people have forgotten that based on the reactions. Like this is some chaotic crazy.

No, this is how it's supposed to work. Every now and then, teams deep down win the lottery and move way up. Every now and then, teams that had good odds don't have the balls bounce their way and they drop down. In fact, you know, the Red Wings had a 50% chance to wind up exactly where they did. It was the most likely outcome for them. So if you're a Red Wings fan, you're totally allowed to be disappointed. You're totally allowed to be mad and kick, you know, all that stuff.

But if you're like blown away by this or this really caught you off guard, you weren't paying attention. This is the exact same odds that every other last place team has had for going back to the, the 2016 lottery. And, you know, even the stuff with, you know, these eight teams that, you know, oh, it's a good team should never be able to win the lot. Well, that's how it's been for five years now. And so a lot of this, like a lot of the complaints that I hear, it's not that they're wrong, because I think there's good cases to be made that this system that we have is not the right system. But it's the system we've had for five years with the one little wrinkle of not knowing who some of the teams were.

and people, based on some of the reactions, don't seem to realize that, or it seemed to think that the NHL created some brand new thing that is now so confusing and so, you know, so has generated these wacky results. It's the same. Same system we've had for five years, and I think that system works pretty good. I thought the funniest thing was Elliot Friedman reported that a bunch of people have crossed the league reached out and we're like, this is bullshit. And it's like, I get why fans would be mad about it. But like, you're in the league. You should, you should fully understand.

Like, no, like, I agree that the draft lottery system as it set up doesn't work. But like, you're in the league. You don't get to look at, you know, a team with a 2.5% chance of winning and go, how dare they? How dare they? I had somebody from an NHL team text me and say, like, this is the most NHL thing ever. To know exactly, no, but what they were referring to is to know exactly what could happen and be fine with it, but then when the thing does happen, we freak out. Right. Whether it's the lottery, whether it's like a rule that we know is bad and we know

is going to eventually screw up a playoff series in game seven, you know, we just all sit back and go, yeah, you know, if that happened, that would sure be bad. we don't do anything and then the thing happens and we go who could have seen this coming and it's like literally anyone could have seen this coming and not only that like the play in teams and and god bless him because steve eisenman of all people said this he's he's like the playing teams had the best odds collectively like the the odds of that you know NHL logo flipping over number one was better than i mean i guess it was better than detroit's odds it was not better than ottawa because ottawa had the two picks, but it was better than either of Ottawa's individual picks.

Like, play in team was the favorite in this, and anyone who looked at the odds for five seconds would have known that. So when it happens and people are like, this is an unfathomable crazy. No, it's not, man. Like, we knew that there was a really good chance this was going to happen. Yeah, who's not bet in the field on this one? Like, if you had to put money down on the draft, like, you're completely betting the play in teams to get the first overall pick just because of the number of chances that you have.

Now, the GMs are hilarious because they could have avoided this except for themselves. Like, their big fucking concern was, well, God forbid, the same team wins the Stanley Cup in the first overall pick. And then to remedy this, the NHL is like, all right, we'll come up with this other system. And the GMs are like, hey, that's a great fix. And then the thing happens, and then they're all like, fuck this thing that we signed off on. It's just so typical. But again, the thing is, like, if they had just, and I understand they wanted to do the lottery early because the TV partners wanted it and you got to play ball with your partner sometimes.

But if they had just done it after, we would be talking about like Winnipeg or whoever winning the lottery. And we'd be like, wow, that's an upset. That was a long shot. But, okay. I mean, that they were in the lottery. Of course they should be able to win. Can we pause in the TV aspect for a second? So when they talked about doing the draft before the season,

I remember this very distinctly because it was all over Bill Daley's memo. They talked about a couple of things. They talked about their broadcast partners doing like a week or in the case of Canada a month of programming leading up to the draft. Did that happen in Canada? Because sure, shit didn't happen here. Well, no, but this is, we just saw the draft lottery, right? Like that was for the draft, and they were going to go hard on the draft. We don't have a draft yet.

We don't know when it's going to be. This was the lottery. They did. Oh, they weren't going to go hard on the preview for the lottery? Oh, all right. No, I can't imagine. Well, maybe I was confused in that. Maybe they would have, but I can't imagine how you'd be able to fill that much time.

The other question I had, USA, Canada. So the NBCSN broadcast, remember when the NFL did, like, they're dedicated their, entire draft to like first responders and and and everybody like they were bringing in all these people and doing these vignettes about first responders and yeah and it was you know quite beautiful well i mean i didn't watch it but i heard about it yeah right so so the nchel here in the states did that for about three and a half minutes like they had like a cop from jersey waving at the camera by by his marty brodore poster and shit like that i think they were all very uh explicitly not cops.

There was, no, there was one cop. Everybody else was not a cop, but there was one cop. By the way, not a whole hell of a lot of time

on the draft spent on the issues of the day, by the way, let's point that out. Sean, was there anything like that on the Canadian broadcast? You know what?

I can't actually tell you because as I, as I was talking about on the radio just before we went and did this, I actually forgot it was draft lottery night. It was the last

I was going to go to school for my kids, and we promise them that, you know, like of official school, we promise them we do like a little mini party, we order pizza, we got a new video game, we were all sitting around playing it. And at like, 8.05, I was like, oh, crap, the draft lottery is going on. So I grabbed my phone and I put it on just on my phone, but on silent. And I literally turned it on just pretty much just in time to see Bill Daley flip over the Red Wings card at number four. And I had the same reaction as Ryan, like, oh, okay, here we go. Yeah. And then I saw him flip over Ottawa and I saw him flip over L.A. And then I saw him flip over an NHL card.

And I was like, yeah, don't like, what's with the suspense, man? Like, we know what league it's in. Just show us the logo. And then it took me a second because I'm watching with no sound. And I'm like, oh, crap. Okay. So I didn't, I didn't catch any of the preamble. That's hilarious.

I just got the silent version. And then, you know, my, meanwhile, like, my little, like, Mario Party character is, like, wandering off into the ocean because I'm staring down on my camera. Yeah. The dice is just rolling and rolling and rolling over his head. Pretty much. Never to be punched. Exactly.

I really thought LA was getting the first pick when we got down in the final two. I really did. I couldn't wrap my brain around the placeholder team getting it. But that's what happened. But, you know, winners and losers, I think, Sean, you did one of these two. Chris Peters and I did one for ESPN. We all have to. It's legally mandated.

I feel, I mentioned this in the podcast last week. I genuinely feel, horrible for Detroit. Like, yeah. I, I, I'm not somebody who, who believes in, like, the karmic, uh, um, comeuppance of teams that decide to strip down the rosters and tank. I feel like that's the system that we have. And, and they're trying to work the system.

And they're trying to better their team. And to not get one of the top two picks is a fucking gut punch. And by the way, you've mentioned Steve Eisenhower before. Others had pointed this out. The man looks like Jeff Blashell now. I don't know what happened. Like, he, look, they cut to Steve. We've seen in his office, and he looks like, he looks like when Elaine realizes she started

dressing like George. Like, I don't know what the fuck happened with Steve Eisenman, but he looks exactly like Jeff Blasheel now. Are we sure he's not Jeff Blasheel? Because that would explain the whole, we're bringing back the coach thing. Has anybody seen Steve? Like, ask him some questions about like the mid-80s redwings and see what he comes up with. No, I don't want Gerard Gallant.

I want Jeff Blasheel. It was very odd. But anyways, I felt really bad than getting number four. I mean, like, they'll still pull a pretty decent player at number four, no doubt. But, like, correct me if I'm wrong. But, like, the top two guys, like, Laughanier is obviously on a different level. But Byfield's supposed to be real good, too, right? Yeah, and it was kind of like he, for most of the year, he was number two, and it was like a solid one, two, and then the next tier.

And I feel like, what's his name? Sturts has kind of moved up. Sturtz, oh, yeah. Which still, you know, it doesn't help you if you're Detroit. And, look, I've said this. this in a bunch of different places, I have had so many Red Wing fans furious at me, at the world, at everything, that's fine. That's how it's supposed to be because that's, that means that they care, right? Like, I mean, if, if Red Wing fans watch that whole season and then saw their team

drop down to four and were like, ah, it's fine, whatever, that would be a really bad sign for the NHL. So I've got no problem with anyone being mad. You had a 50% chance. Like, this is, you know, yes, you made a strategic decision, whether you want to call it tanking, whether you want to call it rebuilding, you made a strategic decision to punt the season, knowing that as a result of that, you were going to get a 50% chance of a top three pick and a 50% chance of number four. That's what you got. This wasn't, nobody yanked the rug out from under you. And the other thing that I would say is, like, some of the reaction I've seen, and not just

from angry Detroit fans, but from media and from, it, it sat, this. they make it sound like the Red Wings got booted down to the fifth round. Like, they're going to pick fourth. That's where Kail McCar got picked. That's where Mitch Marner got picked. Seth Jones, Paul Korea, Steve Iserman got picked fourth overall. Like, it's a deep draft. You're going to get a really good player at fourth. It's not like the NHL came along and said, you don't get any draft picks this year. Ha ha. Like, you're going to get a guy who's going to pretty much immediately become the best prospect in your entire system. Yeah, it's not Alexis Lefrenier, but you're getting a really good player. You didn't lose all your picks.

Like, fourth is still a really good pick in a league where bad teams need to build around really good picks. Hmm. Yeah. So, it was a bummer. Ottawa, sure. I mean, like, I think they probably did okay for themselves. They'll get two really good players. It's, if you have two picks in the lottery, you can't help it. you're going to dream of pulling one and two and, you know, having it.

But they'll be fine. They're a good drafting team and they're going to get two real good, probably forwards, but we'll see. And I mentioned this before. Like, I kind of, I think I've become a Pierre Dorian stand a little bit. Like, I feel like, I don't know, I've always been kind of secretly impressed with what he's been able to do with absolutely fuck all there. And secretly impressed with what he's been able to do while working for just an absolutely. atrocious owner. They draft well.

They draft well. Trading away talent is, yeah, trading away talent is so much easier than acquiring it. So it's, it's, yeah, I mean. That's a good point. He's done okay there. The one other thing that was interesting, though, with Pyrradorian is he did some, it must have been a media thing, I guess, but somebody asked him, like, would you trade down with either of those two picks?

And he was like, it would really have to be a, you know, he basically, he basically, basically said no, but he couched it as saying like it would have to be a really certain situation where somebody was falling and whatever have you. But he was like, no, we're not going to trade down. And then they said, would you try to package those picks to move up to number one? And he said no comment. So, you know, you know, but he said no to the other question, right? Like, you know, it's so it was interesting that, you know, again, he could have said no, we're happy with where we are. And said, and he was kind of like, yeah, you know what? Let's check back on this. And, and. So that's always, any kind of speculation around moving up. Because look, if it's a team that, if it's a good team that gets that number one pick, would they move down a couple of spots? Yeah, you know, there might be a situation where that could work. And a team like Ottawa, it would probably make sense to blow both of those picks to move all the way up to number one and get a French-Canadian star.

You can build a whole team around. Mm-hmm. For sure. So, all right, let's talk about the other shoe that's going to drop here, which is the fact that a placeholder team is going to end up with the first overall pick and a real good fucking player. I think in Craigs, I'm talking to my executive guys to tell me how good the player is piece. Lafrenier was like fifth in like the last 10 years. Yeah, they did the last 11, including him first overall picks. I think they ranked him fifth.

And it just cracked me up because they did 11, and then they did a top 10. And then it was just like, and then the last, it just said like not ranked Nail Yakupov, and that was it. Right. And what the fuck? Taylor Hall was 10th? Yeah, that was. How did that happen? Recent league MVP.

Yeah. That's because how you, it's because he really like centers. That and he had a bad season this year. But they also, he had an okay season this year. He didn't have like an MVP season this year, but his points all fine. As a contract year, I think everybody would say. No, that's a fair point. But, like, how is Aaron Ekblad, like, a few spots ahead of Taylor Hall?

How is it possible? I don't think these GMs or whoever voted on this thing. I don't think they think about it that much. Is it because he's in Arizona now? And now he's like, he's like Ekman Larson, we're just fucking forget about him. Is that what happened? Taylor Hall's in Arizona now? Like, if I didn't know that?

All right. So you're going to get, I think, I think to your point before, Sean, like, the issue with the draft, obviously, is that while the odds were in line with everything that we've seen that's come before it. And it just was a year when the longest of long shots won the first overall pick. We've never had playoff teams have the ability to get the first overall pick. And I know we're going to get into the semantic argument about what's a playoff team, what's a playoff team, what's the post-season team. And also every playoff team that had ever traded for a first-round pick, which is not, you know, people are like, this can never happen.

And it's like, where were you with Colorado last year, dude? Oh, it totally can. Yeah, for sure. But, like, the penguins and the Oilers should not have a shot at the first overall pick, at all. Those are ensconced playoff teams. And the Oilers are? The Edmonton Oilers.

The Doylers finished the second of their division. But the flip side of this is, the flip side of this is, no, they should not have a shot at the first overall pick if, you know, Pittsburgh's the whatever, ninth best team in the league. They shouldn't have a shot at the first overall pick. Also, if you're the ninth best team in the league, you should be guaranteed a seat at the 16 team playoff table. So Pittsburgh didn't get that. So that's why things have changed. I mean, this is, this is it. And, you know, I had somebody point this out to me. There, you know, people are like, oh, you know, Pittsburg. should never, a ninth team should never have a chance at a top. In a normal season, you can finish as high as six overall in the league and miss the playoffs and go into the lottery. Now, obviously it's a huge long shot, but right. So is Pittsburgh winning the first overall pick? Like they have to still lose and then be one of the eight that was the 2.5. Like, this is a super long shot. This isn't, you know, and yeah, maybe they end up winning or Edmonton, which to Ryan's point, I think we're all

not as convinced as a permanent playoff fixture, but this year they should have been... They're three points clear of a wild card. They're not like incredible. Yeah, they're... No.

Pittsburgh feels like the only team that was a real playoff lock. Being second in the division, I mean, who cares? Like, we know that the division stuff is bullshit. Like, we've all agreed that, but now we have to go, well, actually being second in the division,

you know, let me see. I can pull up where they actually rank in the Western Conference, but yeah, fourth. They were fifth in the West by points per cent. Yeah, fifth in the West by points percent. They were five points up on a playoff on the wild card on Vancouver, who had two games in hand. And Minnesota and Nashville both had two games. So Edmonton wasn't home and clear by any stretch. No, that's what I'm still.

If we had finished the season and Edmonton had gone three and seven down the stretch and missed the playoffs, we all would have gone like, yeah, same old Oilers. And then if they won the lottery, we would have gone, yeah, same old Oilers. And nobody would think this was an outrageous. Like, Pittsburgh's the only team that's in the lottery that was pretty much guaranteed a playoff spot. So, I mean, it's one team. Like, I don't know. These people who have this, like, philosophical, like, a good team must never get the first pick.

Well, that's not how the lottery has worked for years now. It's always been possible, at least going back to when they got rid of the only move up for spots thing. It's always been possible for pretty good teams. And by the way, this assumes that the standings actually tell us who the good teams are, which... Which they don't. We all know that they don't. But, you know, even if we pretend that it does, it's always been possible for really good teams to move up and win the lottery. And it's happened.

So, you know, if you want to point to that as a flaw in the overall lottery, approach, then yeah, we can have that conversation in an offseason sometime about changing the lottery, but you don't change it a few weeks before you hold it. And there's nothing different about this year that we couldn't have also said about last year, the year before, the year before that. Besides the number of teams involved in it. Well, except that the league would say, like, oh, there's only eight teams involved, and we just don't know which the eight teams are.

I mean, they should have held the lottery after the plan. I think everyone would agree with that. But once you get past that, it's the same system. But they got that good 36 hours of hype until nobody cared anymore. I don't know. The whole thing was very much like, hey. The second lottery is going to be great. The second lottery is going to be great.

Oh, my God. Yeah, of course. They're going to do it up huge. And to have that extra layer of drama now in the first round where if a team, if it's game five of the qualification round, and you're like, I don't know, should they start carry price kind of thing? Like, it's going to be great. Well, it's going to be that, like, I'm always somebody, I sit down and watch my team in the playoffs,

and, like, they give up the first two goals, and I'm like, this sucks. This is, I hate the play. I hate everything. I hate the team. And now it'll be like, I hate, I hate, and then there'll be that little voice in the back of your head that's like, but also, you know. And somebody, they, uh, Hoffman, uh, uh, Brough pointed out to me. this morning, like, imagine being the team after they do the draw and they pick the winning team, imagine being a fan of the team that beat that team in the play.

Because you're going to be sitting there going like, that would have been us. That was our spot. They were talking like, if Minnesota wins the lottery after Vancouver beats them, they're going to be sitting there going, that would have been us. It's going to add this whole wrinkle. And by the way, can we just say for the second lottery, like we all know by now how the first lottery, the regular lottery works where they've got the 14 numbers and they pick four balls and then we all have to go and look up on a table and see who won. And they don't do it

live because partly because they don't want to screw it up, but also because it would be boring television. Nobody knows who wins right away. This, you got eight teams, flat odds. You can just put eight logos in a bin and pull one out. Completely. Or you can put eight logos in a bin and pull seven of them out and eliminate one team at a time. That's the better, just from a pure entertainment standpoint. It's over the course of an hour, man, and just like, yeah, there's so many fun, interesting ways they could do it. That would take some intense negotiation, though, to do it that way. Because, like, that would be breaking the lottery rules.

Because you pull the winner of a lottery. You don't pull the loser of a lottery. You could make it however you want it to. I mean, we're pulling random numbers and then matching them to some computer-generated table. If you're going to create a system to make a second lottery, let's get crazy. Let's have fun. The real problem with it, of course, is that this is also the league where you can't embarrass Phil Kessel by having him go last in the draft lottery or the All-Star draft.

So you just can't embarrass the Edmonton Oilers. Plus, by having them eliminated immediately. It would be pretty embarrassing for the league when they came out and, you know, Gary Betman comes out with the bin and they're like, hey, we decided we're going to pick seven teams to eliminate them. Can you do that, Gary? And he's like, uh, and then awkwardly, like, starts picking balls and the balls all say Chicago. And he's like, nobody, nobody told me. Dude, but seriously, like the camera, like a lot of drawing locally, like camera focused on the top of the ball sucker machine, the ball comes up, you turn it around, you see the logo and everybody

loses their shit. There's eight teams. You could do a tournament. You could do a tournament. You could do an elimination, like everybody loves their brackets. Do like a coin flipping or whatever tournament two teams against each other and move them on down. Spin a wheel. Drop a big giant plinko chip. Like, let's, if you've got this second show now, everyone's going to be watching it. Steer into it. Don't do some, you know, don't just do it behind the scenes and then have Bill Daly, like,

Trumbull on out and flip over a Blue Jackets card or whatever. And what I want to hear is, like, one of the teams being like, I don't like this format. And then Gary Betten being like, well, you don't have to participate. Better odds for the other seven. Yeah, but see, the flaw in your plan is they would be saying they didn't like it before they knew the results. And that's not how anything works. They would wait until, and then they'd be like, actually, it was bad.

We should say, though, that they're not going to do any of this because it's fun and cool and this is the answer. Right. And then you'd be leaving the good people at Ernst & Young out of the equation. Who's going to carry that briefcase? who's going to carry the briefcase? The NHL did not spend upwards of $100,000 in the lotomatic 5,000 to select

all of those different numbered balls to do it this way. I do like the idea of there being a devil and an angel on Sean's two shoulders right now about we haven't won a cup since 67, but we'll get three years of entry level contract on a top line winger. Yeah, no, like I think

that's a real question that teams have to, like, if you're the Nashville Predators or something, right? Like, okay, you're not going to, you're probably not going to win the Stanley Cup. You probably don't have the horses to do it. I will not let you besmirch the good name of John Hines, sir. Or whoever, pick any team. Like a lot of these teams, like Pittsburgh, Toronto, maybe are the only two that have,

where you look at it and you go, oh yeah, they have the talent to make a deep run, you know, that isn't like a complete fluke. Everybody has the talent to go on a deep run that has a complete fluke in it, or two, or three. But, like, yeah, if you're Nashville, if you're Columbus, don't you go, yeah, fuck it, man, I'd rather, I'd rather duck out early and get that franchise winger. If you're a fan, then you do. If you're the GM, you probably go, oh, you know, we, I maybe don't want us to wait. But just for the record, none of the players care about this. Oh, no, of course not.

I've seen people who are like, the Canadians aren't going to try. They're going to intention. No, they're not. Shea Weber is not kissing away one of his last chances at a Stanley Cup so that Alexis LaFrenier can come in and be good three years from now and get a new contract that means Shea Weber has to get traded to the coyotes. Like, he's not doing that. Nobody's tanking on the player's side.

Some of the GMs wish they could, but they can't anymore. GMs are the ones who tank and the rosters are locked. Well, here's the thing. if Mark Bergevin calls up Claude Julianne and goes, here's an idea for you. Tomas Tatar, first line center.

What do we think? Like, you know, there are still ways to tank, even in the playoffs, if that's the route they want to go. Again, like, don't start carrying price in game three. In overtime of game five,

called Julianne, we'll throw the towel on the ice to end the game. And then we'll later on say, one and eight chance, my friends. One and eight chance. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, let's go through some of the worthiness here. I want to do a scale of one to ten. One being, move along, nothing to see here. You know, just a pick that if they won the lottery, no big deal. Ten, of course, is dogs and cats living together mass hysteria. Complete chaos. One through ten. Let's start off from the Western Conference.

What would be the rating for the Ebenson Oilers? is winning the lottery, a scale of 1 through 10. That's, to me, that's your 10 right there, because they're good team. They've already won a bunch of lotteries or picked first a bunch of times. It's, sorry, to my Edmonton friends out there, it's a lousy market to send a dynamic young star to. Oh, boy. Can we amend that to a fourth dynamic young star too? Exactly. How many millions upon millions of dollars did the league lose when Connor McDavid went to Edmonton instead of like New York or wherever?

Buffalo, which by the way is evidence that they never rig anything. Yes, obviously. That should have been the end of that. But plus also, how many times do you look at the Oilers and go like, oh, McDavid on line one, dressidal online two, if they ever got an elite winger to play with one of those guys, they'd be unstoppable. I mean, this is, I feel like we say this every time. Edmonton adds like a new top prospect. We're always like, just give them the next few Stanley Cups. But this would be pretty close to that.

Like, it would be the perfect combination of fans being furious at the unfairness of it and also being like, we're screwed, especially if you're in that division. I just want to point out that that was Sean. I'm not throwing my voice on any of those things. So as a message to my friends in Edmonton, not Greg this time. Sean said all the quiet stuff out loud. I think that's only a seven, though. It's a beautiful city. The Rocky Mountains are right next door.

We get it all. Like, yes, you're wonderful. But. Yeah, I think that's only a seven just because, you know, it's certainly not ideal for anybody except the Oilers, but also, like, you said they're a good team. I think they're a perfectly fine team that's a couple of pieces away from being legitimately cup competitive. And so, you know, Lefranier certainly would get them to that level, but also, you know, they're, they're going to make some, some better decisions organizationally and that kind of thing. Like, I wouldn't be, and, you know, given the way history has worked. They've got two Hall of Famers in the front office working together.

That's right. Let me go out this way. Just given the way the history has worked, I would absolutely not be shocked if they, if they pulled it down. Yeah. I wouldn't be shocked either. And like, I'll give it a seven, too, because I genuinely want what's best for Connor because he's stuck there.

So you might as well find, you know, give him the comfiest pillow you can find. You know, like I want him to have a chance to play with somebody like that, although I'm sure he'll end up playing with dry sidel. Or James Neal. Yeah. The Blackcox for me. Zach Cassian off that top line. the Blackhawks for me are like an eight because I think you know completely worthy of getting this pick because they were a garbage team but I think it's also a situation where if they won if they lose in the first round then win the lottery I mean we talked about it off the top top of the show it is going to be the fucking Roswell crash of draft lotteries like 100% talking about yeah we're talking about this you know 40 years from now about how they fixed it for Chicago to get the the pick so I put

it around an eight. A worthy team, but one that would create total chaos if they won. It would just be, it would, that would be the pick. And there's a few others that would make dumb people who still think the NHL is going to rig a lottery mad about the NHL rigging a lot. I don't think it's even is going to is capable of. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I think eight, maybe even a nine just again because of who, how much success that team has had and all the stars. And, you know, how many times this year alone did we read? Is Chicago back?

I mean, look, they won three games in a row here. The glory days are here again, folks. To brink it. See this kid? Yeah. But, yeah. The Predators would be like a five. I mean, they're like a five in a lot of ways, but like I say they're about a five.

That's exactly right. You know? I mean, at the very least, now because you have Douchain and Johansson, in theory, there, unless they, like, blow up part of the team if they don't do anything this year, then you at least have a center for the kid in the first couple of years. So they're, like, a five to me. That'd be okay if they won the lottery. I wouldn't hate it.

Yeah, no, I think you would say they don't necessarily deserve it because they're a good team top to bottom, but also, like, you know, perfectly mediocre teams. can win the draft lottery, and that's more or less what they are. They're one of those. Plus, how funny would it be for the Predators? The one year they win the lottery is like the one year that there's not a center as they are the number one pick. The coyotes are like a four because I think they have the same problem Edmonton has,

which is that it'll be a never-to-be-heard-from-again situation with this kid going to Arizona. But at the same time, like, it would shock no one that the team with Taylor Hall wins, draft lottery. The only question is when do they hold the lottery? Is it before or after his contract expires? That's the only thing. But yeah, I feel like everyone would be, there would be a low level the fixes in because people still think Gary Bettman is desperate to do anything to save hockey in Arizona.

But other than that, the Canadian media. Yeah, like Arizona's bad team. Former Coyote's owner, Barry Bowdo by the way. They're a bad team. They haven't been good recently. they haven't had a first overall pick in the last few years. So they'd be fine. This is interesting.

So Vancouver to me is kind of like what you just explained with the Oilers, which is the, uh-oh, oh, no, how great is this team going to be for a long time if they added him to that mix of forwards and plus pink hues plus goalies. But I think there's a general acceptance that that's okay. Because we like Vancouver better than we do. you Edmondson. Am I wrong on that? I think that's probably right. Yeah. And, and, you know, there are, I'd give this a six just because they're actually, like, set up to be pretty good regardless of whether they get Lafrenier in

two, three years. You know, as long as they can get the goaltending kind of figured out for the long term. And it seems like they might be able to between Demco and D.P.H.R., but, yeah, I mean, do they really need another guy to go well with Elias Patterson? I don't know. And let's remember, like Vancouver was a good team this year, but they were surprisingly good. If you had, at the beginning of this year, it was been like, like, PEO kind of a thing more than anything else. You know, remember when like Jim Benning traded away the first round pick and it's protected, but, you know, if you had said like, you know, Vancouver's actually going to pick first this year, people would have been like, yeah. I can see that, right?

Yeah, sure. Absolutely. They made a leap with it wasn't expected, so, yeah. Well, oh, yeah. Well, here's why I mention that I picked them to be a wild card team along with the devils. The Minnesota Wilde at in that series, I'm going to put that at a one. Like, first of all, if they're in the lottery, that means they're not in the round of 16. God bless them for that.

And two, like, that's a franchise that fucking needs a kid like this. Oh, my God. desperately need it. Unfortunately, as somebody who finds reasons to make lists of teams pretty much every week, I can tell you there has never been a list of anything that has had Minnesota at number one. The Minnesota Wilder always eighth or ninth on every list, no matter how you do it. So I'll say this. This is going to be any different. Here's why it's a little more, it's like maybe even a three for me,

is if I'm, if I'm Minnesota and I win the drag, draft lottery, I call Pierre Dorian about getting that three and five, because I don't need one great player. I need two very good players. Sexy. I like it. Not bad. That's not a bad idea. Is this Paul Fenton on the podcast?

Coming up with these great ideas from Minnesota? No, I didn't duck out on this podcast to go to a Patriots game or whatever the thing was. Remember that? And you know all the names of the other people on the podcast. don't just keep to yourself all the time. That's right. Paul Fenton did. Calgary getting them.

What do you think? What number would that be? That's like a six. Well, I mean, I guess it depends, right? Do they trade Johnny Goodrow this summer, which they've been saying for months is going to happen? Because then you need someone to replace Johnny Goodro. Yeah, right. The idea was going to be Taylor Hall at some point, but maybe it will be Lafranier.

I don't know. So, yeah, I would say it's like a five. They're another team that's just kind of like a five. Winnipeg's interesting, because, like, let's throw this out here. If you get a chance to add this kid, do you explore the idea of trading Patrick Lainey? Well, I'd see maybe can we convince him to play defense? Just hop on the blue line, kind of solve a lot of our problems here. How about Line A to the Rangers for Truba?

Can we do that? I don't, doesn't Jacob Truba have like a full no move or something? He's not cool. Oh, yeah, he also has... He's definitely got a no move to Winnipeg. I pretty much hear me, then. I mean, that's like a one team no trade list every year, and it just says Winnipeg. That's like a four for me.

Like, I mean, I, again, I don't think that's necessarily the market I need him in. That might, honestly, that might be another team where it's like, hey, Pierre, you want, you want, uh, Afranyi? We'll take three and five off your hands. We'll take a defenseman. We'll take another good forward. Could be. Oh, man. But the other nice thing about Winnipeg, sorry, is just they were the team.

Like, if this had been a regular year, they were the team in that slot of team. In that slot, yeah. So people would kind of be like, yeah, but this isn't. Oh, yeah, you know what, sure. That brings it down to about a three. But could you, to speak to Calgary in Winnipeg, like, could you imagine the pressure on a general manager to, to draft this Canadian kid and not, like, trade that pick? Like, there has to be enormous pressure on them to,

I mean, well, first overall is almost always Canadian. Like, what? Well, it's a good point. And also, you can get a first overall, like, you can get a second overall guy who's a Canadian. You can get a third overall. Well, maybe not third. But you can get like a fourth or fifth overall guy who's Canadian. Like, you know, you have options.

And it's not, I mean, Canada is a pretty big country. Winnipeg is pretty far away from, it's not like, He's some local guy. Yeah, he's free. The way it would be in Montreal or, to some extent, Ottawa. I think they would, those would be the two teams that can't possibly not pick the guy if they had the opportunity. But yes, I think Winnipeg would be okay. Because they're remote.

Right. Not just they're just out there. Yeah, it's, it's a big, wide country. It is. In the east, obviously the penguins are like an 11, right? Oh, my God. It would be so funny, though, dude.

This scale goes to 11 when it comes to the Pittsburgh Penguins. It'd be incredible. I mean, that, that to me is, which one is the one that gets the most cat calls for being a fixed lottery? Is it Pittsburgh or is it Chicago? Because they've fixed it for Pittsburgh before, obviously. Yeah. I mean, I think Pittsburgh gets it more just because of the history and also the fact that they were legitimately good. They were good teams.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Montreal is like a one, maybe like even like a half because like they're horrible and also he's French-Canadian. And this would be one of the greatest things that's ever happened in the last 25 years. Well, I first, I think, yeah, it would be. But first of all, I mean, the conspiracy theories would be off the chart. Yeah. Because it would be like, oh, yeah, look, the French Canadian star comes around in the league.

So if you're going to do that, Montreal would be way up high. And also just the chaos of like this team lucking into this, the exact player they need. And now, you know, Mark Bershman gets a six-year extension and, you know, all this other stuff. Right. There's, I think that one would be a way to be. Plus, it's Montreal, right? It's the same as, it's the same as, you know, with the Leafs. Like, there's no, you're talking like the chaos scale.

Like, their scale starts at a four. And that's for like a game day skate. Like this would be at least just a five or a six just because it's Montreal. Yeah, I mean, and we're overlooking the fact that this kid could easily go there, have Jack Hughes as rookie year and get crushed and just get fucking destroyed because he's in Montreal. Oh, for sure. The other thing to say, of course, is that, you know, he's a winger who has some renown and Mark Bergeman will talk himself into. I can convert this kid to center. I can do it. He's Matt Stoney. He's John Druent. There you go. That's exactly what's going to happen. That's a great point.

Now, the hurricanes keep their pick, right? Like, they have this pick. I'm always confused by this shit. I try to break up. No, they could, the hurricanes have to give up. They've got their pick and Toronto's pick. But if their first overall, they keep their pick because then Toronto's pick would go to the Rangers. That's right. So they keep the better of the two picks. So, yeah, if they win the lottery, both Carolina and Toronto, they win the lottery. They keep the pick.

Right. Okay. So the hurricanes, that's like a, that's like a, oh, that's a tough one. Because there's going to be a lot of people that don't want them in Carolina. but we kind of love Carolina. I would say it's like a four, but they're also good. So it's like I say probably like a six maybe. Yeah, well,

the other thing to say, of course, is that speaking of conspiracy theories, that would be the Canadian media once again being like, oh, they're trying to save hockey in Carolina. This team should be in freaking Quebec right now, blah, blah, blah. Right. And what a dick slap to the French Canadian media. Exactly. Lafranier go there instead of the team that should be in a team that should be in

team they don't get the player either yeah all up a two a seven then also it sucks because he's not they don't have like um between sveschenikoff and him like you know not nary a center to be found so that's tough isn't freaking uh sebastian oh hoa center am i wrong about this oh oh well no i mean like no he is a center i don't i'm not saying they don't have centers i'm just saying that like that it's interesting that they would pull two great players out of the draft and neither one of them would be center that's all i'm saying they're they also have that martin I always want to say NECCash, but is it NECCash? Nekash, maybe.

Nekish? Yeah, I don't know. Again, my problem is that I watch so many games on mute that it becomes difficult. They have Martin NECOWafer as the other guy that could be a center. Jordan Stahl of course. Yeah, I think they're full up on centers for a minute. Okay. The New York Hockey Rangers.

Um, fixed. Boy, this is a tough one. What number do you put on this one? I think, I think this is a three where it's like you would go, I mean, it might be fixed, but also like they were trying to be dog shit this year. And like the only reason they weren't is Panarin went all the way off all season. So like, again, you know, we talked about it in the MVP episode, but like they put freaking Ryan Strom on this kid's line.

He's like, I'm going to, I'm going to be like third in the league in scoring. Don't worry about it. or whatever number he wasn't third, but you know what I mean. What do you think, Sean? Yeah, I mean, I would say around there. You will get the big market fix crowd, but other than that, like this, this team, like for the first half of the season was supposed to be a lottery team. And plus put the kid in a nice big market where you can go and be a star.

And I also think there's something to be said, just like if the kings had won the lottery, like the Rangers have done this right. They're a really good organization right now insofar as rebuilding the team versus just trying to be like fucking, you know, trolling for the big fish, you know, so I give them credit for that. The Islanders. Oh, man, I'd put this at like a three. Like how, I know the Islanders are, you know, kind of a playoff team, but like, how cool would it be to have, you know, as we still smell the sulfuric fumes of John Tavares turning his back on his franchise? to have this kid in a new arena in the next couple of years, it'd be fucking tremendous for them. I put it like a three.

Word of advice, check his bed sheets before you draft them. That's the pre-draft interview, man. Do you have any photos of yourself in Montreal Canadiens gear that we should see now? I was going to say, he's cuddling a Yupy doll right now in one of those childhood photos. Yeah, and because he's so young, he has like the freaking Thai silencer from, episode seven instead of the Naboo Starfighter, the N1. Yeah, I know that I look, you don't appreciate it to the choir here.

I know what one he had. Yeah. The Florida Panthers. Ooh, that's a tough one. I'd say it's like a six. No, I think it's even higher than that. Again, like from a Canadian media, we'll say the fix is in standpoint. they weren't bad this, like they got a lot of headlines for being bad, but they weren't like horrible this year.

And I, you know, if, if, if Brovsky has like even a half decent season, they're probably a playoff, like a comfortable playoff team. But that didn't happen. And so, you know, for them, like, they have a lot of talent. If they're going to be good, they're going to be good. I don't know that they necessarily, you know, obviously Lafrenier would help, but like, they don't necessarily need him to be good. But if you put him on Sasha Barkov's wing for the next decade, I think things will work out. Yeah. Yeah.

I just think it'd be fun to watch them get Lafrenier and then somehow lose him in the expansion draft next year. I also like a good, a good five or six years of Joel Quinville pronouncing Alexis Lafranier's name with his Dennis Farina voice. Lexus Lafranier. I'd go for that. All right. Finally, we'll start with the Blue Jackets. That's a one. Yeah.

Yeah. Completely fine. The only thing that you don't want to see is, you know, towards yelling at a kid. Here's the only thing that moves the needle on that is, like I said, if Columbus wins the first overall pick, that means that Toronto by beating Columbus costs themselves the first overall pick. So the story would still somehow be about the maple leaves, even though it was the blue jackets who, and like the blue jackets would be on like page four of the sports section. Like, oh, by the way. Yeah. And speaking of the leaves, that's a, that's a nine.

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Why is it not a 10 in my mind? It maybe would be, well, it would be a 10 in Canada because how. the fans up here like the Leafs and half of them hate the leaves and nobody's in the middle.

So, but just even putting aside like the whole, oh, it was rigged, they're too, first of all, it would be fun to watch Canadian fans have to make the argument that the Leafs are too good to win the lottery while also still making the argument that the Leafs suck. That would be, there'd be some cognitive dissonance there. But it just also from a hockey perspective, like is there a team in the world that needs a super cheap entry-level contract more than the Leafs right now with a flat app. Outside the lightning, no. The Lightning might be the only other team you can say that about. Yeah. Yeah. So,

I mean, it's just like three years of one more. And then salary cap arm again. Like this guy, I wrote this last week. Like, he would get it to maybe the third day of training camp before people would be asking them. Like, well, so what kind of cap hit are you looking at for your second deal. Like, how are we going to work this in? Right. It would be, I mean, anything that happens to the Leafs is like a six out of ten minimum. This would be, this would be a nine. Yeah. How many, how many of the Leafs like 14th, the Leafs organization's 14th best

forward? Do we know by name just because he plays for the Marley's? Like, it's crazy. Yeah. So is Zach Hyman still the top line's left wing after this? Yes. Yeah, he's permanent. Permanent fixture. He's a little fan.

So, I agree. I think it's like close to a 10, maybe a 9. The first game in Montreal would be just chefs. That would be amazing. There you go. Well, best luck to the buds. Speaking of Buds, today's episode of Puck Soup is sponsored by Raycon, our good friends. That might be one of his best in a while, honestly.

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The NWHL Toronto 6 released their uniforms last week, and they look like the senators. Did you guys see those? I thought the black one in particular looked a lot like Remember when Team Canada had the black jersey that said Canada across the middle there? I thought they looked a lot like those. It was weird. Like, you know, to go Toronto, we're the six, we're Toronto, Toronto, Toronto to the core, Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, and then all of a sudden you're dressing like Radic Bonk was a big swerve I didn't anticipate.

So that was kind of strange. Were they trying to match the OVO house? style with the like gold. I know they were pretty gold heavy on a lot of the jerseys. Very gold heavy. They were solid. I mean, they're good looking sweaters though. Like they're nice

looking, it's a nice kit, as they say. So I'm down with that. All right. By the time you hear this, you'll probably know the Hub Cities. It does seem like we're starting to veer closer and closer to a Vegas and Toronto duo, although this should can

change on a dime. The thing that I've talked to a lot of epidemiologists in the last few months, and they keep telling me the same thing, which is that although the numbers could be horrible, as long as you test with frequency and try to seal off that bubble as best you can, you could pull this off. And frankly, like, I think the NHL might have a tighter bubble, if you will. It always sounds weird to say that than the NBA in the sense that, like, the numbers in Florida are going out of, out of, hand and no one's really sure how you can seal off the NBA bubble in the same way, just because of how many people will be coming in and out of Disney and stuff like that. So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

But I don't think Vegas is off the table just because Nevada's numbers on COVID are out of hand. Well, I mean, it's interesting, right? Because, and I think I said this before, but, you know, I don't know how sealed up you can keep the bubble without also being like, and everybody who, which is obviously a thing they shouldn't do. But like you, unless you're telling every arena worker, oh, you also have to stay in the bubble, like you can't go home for three months or whatever, which they shouldn't do, obviously, and probably can't do.

I don't know how to use your term, Greg. Tight, you can keep that bubble. It seems, because where are you going to do? Say, oh, by the way, all these NHL players. We're going to be in Vegas for three months. You cannot leave your hotel except to do a round of golf at this country club we have set up. I don't know, man. It seems like it's going to be a real tough one.

But it was always going to be Vegas, so I don't know why. Yeah. Sean, if they put this thing in Toronto, like, are you going to have people, trying to break into the bubble? I hope not. I mean, this, I get why economically this matters.

I get why these cities are bidding on this. As a fan, I don't care where it is. All I care about is the safety level. I want this as safe as possible, A, because I don't want players getting sick, and B, selfishly, I don't want this thing to start and then get stopped again.

So that's all I care. I don't care about, you know, your tourist package or whatever you want to put out there. Put it wherever. I'm a Leafs fan. Do I want it in Toronto? Not really. If it's in Edmonton, fine.

Put it in Edmonton. If it's in Chicago, put it in Chicago. Do it as safe as you can. You know, obviously if I had a business, if I had a hotel, if I had a restaurant that was going to be in the bubble, I'd feel differently. But I don't. So I just want this done as safe as it can. And let's get on with it. Yeah.

And again, we'll see if the players want to come back or not. I've talked to some people that said there's some really, really intense conversations happening behind the scenes with some of these teams about whether they even want to do this. We'll see what happens there. The one thing I wanted to say, though, about the CBA side of this, I did some reporting on it late last week about how they're actually going to figure this shit out and find labor peace under Gary Betman, which is something I'd ever thought would happen. All right was a pandemic. Yeah, all it took was a pandemic. The fix that they came up with for escrow next year is really interesting.

And please don't shut off the podcast. This isn't going to take very long because I know escrow is something that is fucking repellent. Basically, the players know they're going to get curb stomp by escrow, right? Like upwards of 20%. Like they could have had upwards of 35% withholding. So they're capping it at 20 next season. And they're doing something really interesting, which is that they are deferring 10% of their salaries for at least two years. years. So the owners will have more cash on hand. They're also just throwing their hands up and saying,

you're probably going to keep the whole 20% of escrow anyway. So you could have it during the season, instead of having to wait until after the season and count receipts. And I think it's really interesting because the owners now get more cash on hand when they need it after losing all this revenue. And the players protect 10% of their salaries from this capped escrow at 20%. And And I know that's a lot of numbers, but the bottom line is that I'm fucking astounded that there's something that came out of labor discussion between the players and the owners that actually makes sense and helps both sides. And it's not the owners like just punching them in the face repeatedly until they say, okay. Like this was actually a good idea. I was shocked.

Yeah, it's, it makes sense. Would have been nice to have this kind of thinking at any point in the last 25 years too. So. Yeah, exactly. Good for them. Like they just figured it out. Oh, what if we did anything to not complain about escrow for a decade? No, we have to complain about it.

That's part of the CBA. So crazy. There's still, there's like, there's like 30% of me that thinks this could all fall apart on the labor side, like separate from return to play stuff. But things, things have progressed kind of well. And I'm surprised by that, like pleasantly. So we'll see what happens. there. But yeah, big vote this week. Maybe we'll talk about it next week because we're doing this show before it.

Kind of like the draft. Any other hockey? Oh, Panarin real quick. How about that shit? Artemi Panarin grabbing the flag, becoming a labor leader. You know, and he's always been outspoken, man. This is a guy that talks show on Vladimir Putin while living in Russia, which is maybe not the healthiest thing to do, but he did it.

What did you think about that message he sent out last week about the labor talks? I mean, I think that some of it is definitely, again, like a function of, it's not just, it's, I don't think he's the only guy to do it, but I think when it's the NHL. So when one guy does something and it's not like, you know, you're disrupting everything and you're ruining the league and blah, blah, blah, blah, more guys are apt to do it as well. I guess I would say I was a little surprised just in terms of like, you know, you don't usually see non-English speaking players doing this. But yeah, good for him. It's cool. Yeah, it was interesting. I'm curious about the timing and I'm curious about where this came from as far as who knew he was going to do it.

because it sounds like there is really good progress on CBA, and part of me thinks that this was maybe somebody felt like the talks and needed a nudge, and it was like, all right, let's get a star player to put something out there. And part of me wonders if maybe the people involved in the negotiations were like, this is, dude, not now. This is the one time.

Please don't roll a green into this. Like, we almost have this. So I'd love to know Like the behind the scenes on where it came from Who knew he was going to say it Who encouraged him whether anyone maybe didn't But other than that I mean yeah good I'm

We need more players speaking up and Not just going along to get along so I have a couple of answers for you on that I thought that this was going to be The first of many messages from the PA Like I thought this was going to be one of your coordinated effort kind of deals. And it wasn't because this was literally Panarin being like, here's how I feel and I'm

going to put my feelings out there. And now granted, I think he is feeling a lot different than some players because of the contract he signed last year and looking at the hit he's going to take and feeling kind of shitty about that. And he's also spoken out about escrow before. Well, I mean, he gets a lot of his money as well. a bonus, which is not affected by escrow. And so...

It is going to be affected by the 10% withholding, though. Well, sure, but he, you know, he's also not going to lose the extra 20% on top of that. And, you know, who is, is everybody else in the NHLPA who, you know, aren't insulated from that by having huge signing bonuses. So maybe not the guy to be complaining about escrow on that front. Maybe not. But from everything I heard in digging around, it was his decision to do it. He obviously consulted with his people about, you know, doing it. But by no means was it like, hey, we need you to say this on behalf of the PA or what have you.

He was kind of his own man on this one. And he added up being on an island because it wasn't, I mean, you had Ryan Kessler, who's not even, you know, playing anymore kind of back in. But you didn't have a lot of other players really addressing it. And I've heard to Sean's point that, like, Like, there were some that are like, hey, glad somebody said it. And there are some that, like, dude, what are you doing? You know, like, we're, we're on the path to something here.

And, and you've just, you know, decided to throw a bomb in that path. Like, it's Mario Kart. So it went kind of both ways. But he, it was his, his baby to do this. I was really surprised by that because I really thought when I saw it, I'm like, all right, now where is the statement from Brovowski, you know, and and so on and so forth. But it never materialized. So it's good. All right.

I think that's all the hockey stuff. I mean, there's going to be a lot happening this week. So just keep your eyes on the usual spots for all that. Understand there is a quiz to be had, Mr. Lambert. There is a quiz, and maybe it would help if I freaking open the file on my computer. But, yeah, so as we discussed a couple of weeks ago when we did our last quiz, I actually came up with two in recent weeks. And this one is called What's Your Number?

this last one here. And as the name implies, it's about guys who wear certain numbers in the NHL. And so I can come up with, you know, basically the rules are these. I will give you a completely random player who wore that number for more than one year. It could be a Hall of Famer who just retired. It could be Jerome Ginnler, for example, and everybody knows that's number 12. It could be a guy who played two seasons for the California Golden Seals and like four games across those seasons. You each get to guess, and guessing is encouraged because I will tell you if you are within 20 of that number.

But, you know, you got to kind of get there. And if you guess wrong, you are the other person basically gets. a free pick. Okay. Does that make sense? No, explain it again. Okay. So, like, let's say I'm thinking of Jerome McGinley, and I give you a different guy who wore number 12, and you go, 25.

I'll go, no, but you're within 20, and then Sean can say, is it 14? And then I'll say. So are you naming a player? Yes. A random player. One player? Only one player at a time. Okay.

And what are we guessing? What? And what are we guessing? What number I'm talking about? So we get a player at a time. So after we both guessed wrong, then we get another player. And we're trying to like then diagram it down to. Yes.

What number you're talking about? Yes. Okay. Gotcha. Okay. I got you now. Okay. So this one's actually not that hard. I just used a random number generator to come up with the number. Who goes first, and I will give you the player.

Sean can kick a receive, because he won last one. I'll receive. Give me the player. Okay. Yes, I pull you a RV. Um, did he wear, like, was it like 96? You're within 20, but that's wrong. Greg, you get a free guess.

He's within 20. So that means it could be anywhere from, from 66 to 96? Wait, no, 76. Oh, God. 76 to 116 would be the range you're looking for here. I'll give you a hint. It's probably not 116.

I'm going to say he wore 81. Nope. Okay, so now we move on to the next player, who wore this number. And it's Brian Lawton. Okay, I have no idea what number of Brian Lawton wore, but I think, if Pouyer, if he wasn't 96, I know it was, it obviously wasn't 97 or 99 in Edmonton, but it was like up there. Was he 98? He was 98, you're right. Yep. Okay.

I know he was one of those two. There it is. That was a hell of a number to pick. I think that's like the least war number in, uh, in actual history. So the only, the only other guy to ever wear it is Mikhail Sergachev. Oh, nice. Okay, let's see. When you said Poliardy, I thought he was 28, and then when you said Lawton, I thought he was also 28, so I'm not really good at this game, I don't think.

Okay, you know what, and I should have, what I should, what I meant to do was also say the years the guy wore it with that team. I fucked that up, so I apologize, but Sean got there anyway. No, that's fine. I think I win anyway, yeah. Greg, you're up. You get, and I apologize. Peter Chia Vaglia, who wore this number in 1992 and 93 with the Buffalo Savers, he played a combined five games across those two seasons.

44. No, and you're not within 20. So, Sean, you basically are. All right. So I just guess a number now, right? Yes. What years did he play? I've never heard of this guy, so this feels like...

92 and 93. 92 and 93? Okay. Yeah, that's actually, because if it's not within 20, that takes out most of the scrub numbers. Let's say, 23. You are wrong, but you are within 20.

Greg, your next player is Brian G. who wore this number with the Buffalo Sabres in 15, 16, and 17, and the Boston Bruins in 18. So I said 44, right? Yep. And that wasn't in... That wasn't. So we basically established it's somewhere between 3 and 24, I think, if my... Right.

So I'm going to go 12. You're right, it's 12. Yep. Yes. Because I think it's what G.O. were with the doubles. might be wrong on that. I think you would be wrong on that because, again, it wasn't listed on the... I think I'm a Brian Ralston, maybe.

It doesn't matter. I got a Brian. Same guy. He wore 14 with the Devils, by the way. Yeah, exactly. Like I said, 12. And 21 with the Canadians, if we're keeping score. Former Canadian's captain, Brian Gianta.

That's right. And Sabres captain. Oh, geez. Leadership. All right. more here or do we want to go best of three or best of five let's do a few more best of five is fine yeah all right best of five is yeah the people love the game shows people say many people have said to me sir sir ryan's game shows are the best thing on the

podcast sir and i say we'll do more of them sir well there you go okay well sean i apologize or wait no gregg you're up right because you won yeah no it's sean's up oh okay sure okay yeah yeah Well, Sean, apologize for this one, because Brad Gassoff wore this number from 1976 to 79 for the Vancouver Canucks. I had a Brad Gassoff jersey. I knew it. Number 42. No, that's not right.

And it's not within 20. Okay. Brad Gassoff sounds like the stage name for a last comic standing contestant. Just want to point that out. All right. Bobby Butler wore this number for the Ottawa Senators from 2010 to 2012. Is it number 11? No, but you are within 20.

Okay. Do I get another player or am I guessing the... No, you're guessing based on that. 17. No, but you're within 20. Michel Bergeron wore this number, Greg, from Michelle. My bell.

War it with the Red Wings from 75 to 78. War it with the Islanders in 78 and wore it with the capitals in 79. 22. No, but you're within 20. Okay. Sean? Let's go. This is like miscellaneous forward type number, I feel like.

19. No, but you're also. within 20. Greg, banked Ake Gustafson, maybe wore it for the capitals from 80 to 89. Oh, shit.

Was it... Too many guys named banked in the NHL, but... Was it... Was it seven? No, but you're within 20. Sean? Oh, interesting. Okay. No, but you're within 20 as well. Greg, this is another gimmie for you.

It's Jacob Josephson wore it for the devils from 11 to 17. Buddy, it's not the gimmie you think it is. Number 10? No, you're within 20, though. Sean? Wow. I, let's say 16. That's right.

Yep. 16 is the correct. They gave him Bobby Holick's number of those fucks? They did, apparently. So, Sean's up two to one now, right? Yep. Yes. I got to guess that this is not going to be a well-trafficked number here, but let's find out.

Oh, no. There's a good number of guys here. Okay. Let's see. Scroll, scroll, scroll. A good number of guys who wore that number. Nelson Nogier, Nogier, maybe, wore it for the Winnipeg Jets in 2017, 2019, and 2020. player I've literally never heard of.

Right. I mean, I knew Nelson Nogue, but this guy is Yeah, exactly. He's got more Nogue than that guy. He's no, No gear. You're up here. No, no, I make the guess. No, you start. Oh, okay. Okay. I'm all confused. Sorry.

Glad somebody's paying attention to this fucking game. All right. Nelson Nogear obviously wore number 88. No, and you're not within 20. Sean? I'm going to say he wore 23.

No, and you're not within 20 either. Then obviously we know that Nelson Nogear wore 47. Well, no, I can give you another player, though. It might help you. Probably won't, but it might. Sure. Sean Collins wore it for the Washington Capitals in 09, 2011, and 2012.

86? No, and you're not within 20. Okay, so I take it the 47 guess was not, that's not canon then, right? Like where, that, that is still. 47's not canon. It's still on the board for you. And I'll fuck, I will fucking jump out this window if it ends up being 37. I'm going to actually say, this is, this is clearly like a scrub forward number.

How dare you? How dare you? Nope. But you are within 20. Greg? Give me a name, buddy. It's Eric Griba who wore it with the Ottawa Senators in 13, 14, 15, and the Edmonton Oilers in 16, 17, 18. Is it 48?

No, but you're within 20. Sean? 56. No, but you're within 20. Current Montreal Canadian has worn this number every year. since 2017, Arturi Lekaninan. Uh-oh. That's Sean's guess, right?

Yeah. Oh, I just said 56. I think it's... Oh, yeah, that's right. No, but that was on the rebound, though, when you said 56. That was after my wrong answer. Well, it's Arturi Lechon. Somebody say a number. Please.

53. No, but you're within 20. Greg. Oh, shit. 71. You're within 20 as well. Let's go with Pat Maroon wore this number for the Anaheim Ducks from 2012 to 2014. 65.

No, but you're within 20. Greg? 85? You are no longer within 20. Oh. Andre Nazarov wore it for San Jose. in 97-98, Tampa in 98-99,

Calgary in 99, 2000, and Boston in 0-1-02. Wow. 60 on the nose. No, but you're within 20. Greg. 42? You're also within 20,

but that's not correct. Yaroslav's Foboda wore it for the Carolina Hurricanes in 2002, 3, and 4. We're getting down to the bottom of the the barrel. Greg,

believe me when I tell you, no, you're not. I love the idea that this game is just Ryan naming as many fake made up.

He doesn't have a random number generator. He's got a name generator and he's going to see how long. I'm going to go. It's my guess, I think. Yeah.

I'm going to go 49. No, but you are within 20. 62. That's right. Ew. All right.

I got to go to my hockey reference because I didn't, like, if you would ask me to name one player who has worn in 62, I don't think I ever could. There's, there's one. Yeah, 49 players. Yeah, 49. And there's one where it's like, I guess I just never think of him as having a number. And it's Carl Hagelin has wore it every year he's been in the league. Yes. But.

Tremendous. I wouldn't, would you have ever said, oh, yeah, Carl Hagelin, 62. The man who made 62 fame. No, exactly. Oh, no. I actually, I actually would have gotten it on Hagelin. Really? I knew 62, yeah.

All right. I think Sean wins, but let's do one more for fun here. No, Sean definitely wins, yeah. Yeah. Let's do one more for fun. Okay. Here we go. Sorry, everybody.

Let's see. Thomas Kopitschki wore this number for the Red Wings in 0809, for Chicago and 10 and 11. and for Florida from 2012 to 2015 Thomas Kopetschke I think I go first Yeah 43 Nope and you want

You're not within 20 21 You're also not within 20 Marcus Felito wore this number Sean For the Buffalo Sabors from 2012 to 2017 My guess 71?

No, but you are within 20. Greg. 80. You're also within 20. Donald Audet wore this number for the Montreal Canadians from 02 to 04. 82. Yep, that's right. Yeah, Donald Audet.

Did he wear that with the sabres or just the Canadians? It says here just the Canadians. I guess just the Canadians. Okay. There you go. Donald Adet is like an 82-ish sort of. Why would Elino wear that, though? That's weird.

that, because his dad played for the sabres. Yeah, I think it's like one more than maybe his dad or his brother, right, or whatever. Math was never my strong suit. I'm not surprised I lost this game. Real quick, overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite.

We're going to do a pretty popular category. Schwarzenegger movies. Ooh. Okay. Yeah. Dig in. I got to pull up the list here. Yeah.

Yeah, by all means. Everybody pull up your list. For, for, for the, because it's a lot of them, obviously. I've seen like three of them, so this is going to be. Come on. You've definitely seen more than three shorts and nigger movies. Overrated shorts the nigger movie. The Running Man.

I've got to be honest with you. I think that's a good answer. I think, I think the Running Man has got a lot of really fun shit in it, it is a movie that I've never felt compelled to revisit. I think it's a fun story. I think that it is a timely story. I think it's a harbinger of reality television to come. But as a movie, it's got some good parts,

and it's got Richard fucking Dawson doing who's crazy great work. Exactly. End of discussion. It's got pretty good. But as a film, though, I feel like it gets overpraised in the Schwarzenegger Overe. So I'll say the running man for overrated. Hmm

The thing is I think a lot of his movies Are properly rated as either very good or very bad Like there are very few Schwarzenegger movies where people are like It's fine You know what I mean Like am I allowed to say like twins or something

I don't know how people feel about that movie At all If you think twins is overrated Yeah absolutely I mean I think it I think it sucks I think it's really bad But I don't know how people feel about it

is my point. People like it. Oh, you know what? Let me take that back. I'm going to say true lies is overrated. Because the racism? What, oh yeah,

the red, what's it called red jihad or something? Crimson jihad. It's crimson jihad. It's, it's, we're going to, the Arabs are the bad guys.

Yeah, no, I think it's because, um, I think it's overrated because it is so far beyond preposterous. Like even like even accepting all but like the idea that

That we're that we're like oh yeah our this guy definitely looks like an insurance salesman or whatever He's like cover job is is like any movie where he's trying to come off as the every man is Uh Increasingly difficult to believe That's a that's a good point and and you know it's like if if the rock just was, you know, in a movie today where he was like, oh, I'm just a, I'm just a regular suburban dad, blah, blah, blah. Like, they do a lot of the jokes in the, in the Fast and Furious movies where he's not

that, where, you know, he, he's the girl's, his daughter's soccer coach. And, but like, the joke is, how preposterous is it that the rock would do that, you know? Right. So, yeah, I think the answer is true lies, which, you know, it's good, but it's not, uh, And it's also maybe 20 minutes too long. That last set, the last set piece where he's on the... Goes out for a while, yeah. On the jet or flying the jet around the office building, no thanks.

Yeah. What do you think, Sean? This is tough. Yeah. It's tough. Looking down the list, I feel like, yeah, okay, I'll just say, I think I saw this movie once, and it didn't do a lot for me. I don't even know how it's actually rated, but I will say last action hero.

Seemed fine. Yeah. I'd be regarded it as bad, I think, is the... Okay, so there... But, yeah. People, there were people that defended it as being sort of a good Hollywood satire, but I... So, I'll say this. I feel like it's the sort of movie where when it, like, it was an early 90s movie.

If you like it, it's probably because you saw it when you were a kid. Yeah. And maybe... Don't just, don't go see it again. Just... The one thing I remember that about... Remember they... They paid NASA, like, a fuck ton of money to...

advertised last action hero on the side of a rocket they launched to put a satellite into orbit. That was like a big, the big advertising game for that movie. Yeah, it was awesome. Underrated, I'll go jingle all the way. I saw Jingle All the Way when I was working at Blockbuster in college. We rented it one night and we all got drunk and we watched it. And we had the best fucking time watching Jingle All the Way. Yeah, I mean, again, it's Arnold as like, oh, he's just having fun with his kids or what.

No, it's ridiculous. And also pre-crisis Jake Lloyd as the child in that movie as well. Is he really? I thought the only one he ever did was freaking episode one. All right. No, no. He was also, wasn't he also the kid in Big Daddy? Oh, he was not the kid in Big Daddy.

He definitely wasn't. Because the Kid Big Daddy was played by twins. Unless there's like a Bobby Lloyd out there as well. Jake Lloyd was definitely the kid in Jinkle all the way. And then he was in another movie, too. Maybe not. No, but he was definitely the kid in Jingle all the way. He was, yeah, I'm looking it up now.

No, he was in Apollo 11, which was a TV movie. He was in a movie called Unhooked the Stars. His first role was in 1996 as Jimmy Sweet on ER. Yeah. What? So there you go. All right. underrated, I think we're just going to go. Total recall. It's incredible.

Yeah. Maybe not even praised enough for being how good it is. Hence my belief that it is underrated. Yeah. That's a good. That's a good pick. My pick for underrated is running man. Screw both of you. It's great. Now it's underrated because you'll shout on it. Richard Dawson as the host is one of the top five greatest casting decisions of the 80s movies. That is inspired.

It makes the whole movie. Jesse the Body Ventura, the whole thing is great. I have not seen it since I was 12 years old, so that could be coloring my view, but screw both you. If they've remade Running Man, like they did Total Recall with Colin Farrell,

would it have been Steve Harvey as the guy? Because I see that movie. Yeah, that sounds great. Howie Mandel, for sure, I think, would be the game show host or Regis. I could see Regis doing it. See, now this is a whole, hmm. Well, we'll find out, because it's going to get a remake because we don't make new movies anymore, so eventually it'll be up. Didn't they do it already? Didn't they do it? They did Total Recall. Oh, that's what I, okay, right, yeah, right, right, right. Nope. I got, I got turned on that one. Favorite, it's tough, because it's either Total Recall, or Predator, but I'll go Predator here. I think Predator, man, it's so good,

and it was so well done. And then when you get to the part where it's Mano-a-Mano between Arnold and the Predator, it's just great. There are so many good early Terminator, well, now I've tipped my hand here, but early Schwarzenegger movies, there are so many good ones.

Terminator, Commando, Predator. T2 is close. as well, but I'll go Predator here for Schwarzenegger my favorite. Yeah, I have to go Terminator 2 Judgment Day. I think maybe the best action movie ever made.

Increditive. Just fucking amazing. Oh my God. Die Hard's like, what? I think Terminator 2 is better than Diehardt. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. I don't know. What's your favorite Schwarzenegger?

I've got the same pick, Terminator 2. Total masterpiece, plus also from my own perspective a Guns and Roses soundtrack and Arnold in a Guns and Roses video which I think is probably the second greatest Arnold movie of all time so

That's back when the MTV music video From a movie was like as epic as like the trailer Yeah You got so excited when you saw it And everything yeah I remember they put I heard Arnold's in it and he's in the video for like six seconds Yeah

I remember they did a video for Duel of the Fates from Phantom Menace And it had like new Phantom menace footage in it. It was like fucking epic to see it on it, MTV. Least favorite, T2. No, I'm just playing, I'm just playing the game that Sean always plays. No, least favorite is actually a Terminator movie.

It's Terminator Genesis. That movie is fucking... Oh, it's really fucking bad. It is truly awful. It is... Ill-conceived, poorly executed, horribly cast. It's a... Somehow the Nadeer of the franchise, even coming

after the other term. What was the Terminator movie with Christian Bale? Terminator Genesis? No, no. No, that... Terminator Salvation. Salvation, yeah, which was also bad. Really bad.

And then despite two horrible Terminator movies, then they made Dark Fate, which was like a C-plus, maybe C, but so much better than the previous two that came before it, mainly because Linda Hamilton. But yeah, Genesis is... I was watching it on TV the other day.

fuck that movie. It's so bad. Yeah, it's really awful. And, you know, the timeline was bad enough as it was, but then being like, oh, actually, Cyberdine Systems was a freaking app on your phone. These kids today with their freaking apps,

they made the band Terminator. Fucking Skynet was was a freaking Candy Crush. Yeah, what the fuck? Get lost.

Horror movie. Get lost. Okay. My least favorite Terminator movie, I think it has to be end of days. Really awful. Really, really. Oh, hell yeah.

Yeah. And I love a big, a big, like, apocalypse movie, but this one is a dud. Even though it had Gabriel Byrne as Satan, which was pretty good. And it also gave the world the, remember the great amazing thing about that movie

was that it was the apocalypse people have been looking for 666 for years as a sign of the devil but it turned out that it was just flipped upside down it was actually 999

was the apocalypse that was the big book All right what was your least favorite? I feel like I was like just about every Arnold movie I've ever seen but I'll go with the cliched answer

of Batman and Robin but I will also accept that it was so bad that it like ate its way around to the other side and became good in some way. If people like it, I'm not going to argue that point too much. That's the correct answer. It's not good. And you can still, I think you could still find the script that me and my friends wrote called Batman Sucks Forever. That was inspired by how much we didn't like the movie.

It's flipped on the internet somewhere. But we, well, you know what's funny is that we would get petitioned. once every couple of the years from like high school theater groups that wanted to like do it. We had one person that wanted to do the script as a radio play. I don't know if any of it ever got done, but I did once get a job interview based on how much somebody at the company liked the script that we wrote, which I think is hilarious. Yeah, it's crazy. I didn't get the job. But no, I agree with Sean. Like it's a horrible movie.

It almost killed, it did kill the Batman for him. franchise for a second. By the way, pour one out for Joel Schumacher. He just passed away. I'm not trying to trash the dead here. But it is, but you could watch it, though.

Like, there are parts of it that are, I don't know. I mean, none of it's good, but it's campy. And that's the best you can say about it. Here's what you can say about it. It's freaking neon as hell. And you're never,

you will never see a movie that looks like the Joel Schumacher Batman's ever again. Just truly insane. Yeah, and it's... It's... It's... It's...

It's amazing that, like, um... The 89 Batman was as known for its set design and its, uh, it's craft. And it's, it's the only Oscar, I think it won was for set design, um, or art design. And, like, it became so famous, this big Gothic Gotham city that, that was transferred over to the animated series and everything else. And then a scant, you know, decade later, it's like, fucking, it's like Don the Dragon Wilson with day glow makeup on under, you know, black lights. And that's Gotham City.

It's fucking dumb. Speaking of dumb, that's the podcast for this week. Thanks for everybody for listening to it early. Sorry, we can't be around when they actually have this vote probably this week, but we'll cover it next week. Life intervenes. Have a safe July 4th weekend to all of our friends in the States. Don't even know if, like, they're shooting fireworks and shit in most places. Well, heck, it's fucking Canada Day in two days, too.

Oh, shit. Happy Canada Day to everybody as well, yeah. And I can't wait to see where all these free agents sign on Canada Day is really exciting stuff. He just sent a little while ago saying that they still haven't figured out what to do with $300 million worth of signing bonuses that are due on Wednesday. They've got to figure this out. They've got like today and tomorrow to figure out what to do with that. That feels like something they should have been on maybe before. Yeah, well, and I mean, they still haven't figured out if all the guys who signed like the Carol Caprizov of the world, they don't know if those guys can play yet this season.

Right. It's fucking ridiculous. But, you know, the good news is that fun drinking game this week, if you want to play along, take a shot every time somebody from TSN or Sportsnet tweets about being able to spend Canada Day with their families rather than being in a TV studio. By the way, by 9 in the morning. One last thing to leave you on. I pulled up the Wikipedia page for Batman and Robin, and on the sea also,

Arnold Schwarzenegger filmography, homosexuality in the Batman franchise, list of films considered the worst, and this is my favorite, list of films featuring powered exoskeletons. So there you go. Oh, yeah, Mr. Freeze, right, yeah. Right.

So there you have it. What a movie. Did he ruin Mr. Freeze for all future Batman movies? Like, could you do that Batman, the animated series one that everybody loves? You couldn't do that, right? Part of ice. Is that what that one's called? Yeah.

I mean, I think you could, but like you would have to take it, like, you would have to do the kind of gritty Batman. Like, you couldn't do like the fun, Mr. Freeze, ice to see you and all that shit. Like, he couldn't do puns, I think as well as I would say. I phased out for a second. Did you say Gritty should play Mr. Freeze in the next Batman movie? Did I hear that? I did say that. Good.

Great. Fantastic. Frozen confetti cannons. And then all the other mascots are like, I invented being a Batman villain. I actually do it way better than him. He gets all the credit. Okay, man. All right.

That's the show for this week. Thanks everybody for listening. Do check out the Patreon for the mailman. bag and a great many other things. And thanks for supporting the Patreon. Always new and interesting stuff. I'll have my new article on the Patreon this week, which is, you know, even, you know, I'm off this week.

I'll probably still write it. Thanks to everybody for listening. And check out all our stuff at the usual places. We'll talk to you soon. Bye. See you. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you'll commute.

But we also come. movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Natsin's... Poggi and Natsin.