Puck Soup - Too Many Goals

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

Sean and Ryan talk about the wild Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals, the Rangers/Lightning matchup, the teams that got eliminated, and other NHL news of the week.   Sponsored by Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/puck) and Betterhelp (betterhelp.com/puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McIndoo from The Athletic. And we had a baseball score in game one of the Western Conference final 8 to 6. for the Colorado avalanche over the Edmonton Oilers.

That was a wild one. Yeah, and I'm glad that they got the late goal to make it 8 to 6, so we don't have to hear a bunch of football jokes about, like, how the oilers miss the extra point or whatever. Those were always, always fun. Colorado went for the 2.0. Oh, wow. Okay, and they got it. CFL joke insert here.

A ruse. But that game was freaking amazing. It was... Well... No, don't... Okay, don't you even... No, no. That's not what I'm saying.

Amazing is maybe not the word I would use. It wasn't amazingly well played. Right. That's what I was going to say. I thought both teams played like shit would be kind of my big thing with it. But we're not NHL coaches. But it resulted in it. exciting game.

Exactly. That's more my thing. Amazingly exciting and fun and everything that you would want. If you sat down to invest three hours of your life in watching a hockey game, that's what you want. Now, if you're a coach or even one of the players, you're probably like, yeah, that sucked. We need to change a bunch of stuff. But I hope they don't. I hope they continue to just constantly score.

each other for the entire series because that's what we want. We've got this much talent in a series. This is exactly what we want. And it was, yeah, it was fun as hell. It was so funny last night. Obviously, you don't get the Turner broadcast up there, but Wang Gretzky is on there, and he's going like, look, nobody did more offense than me in the history of the NHL. Like, this is, I'm paraphrasing, but this is what he said.

somebody's going to play defense out there though this is crazy yeah and it's like wait don't say that kind of thing don't you want more goals like isn't everybody always going hey uh wouldn't it be great if every well we don't want it to be like the 80s but yeah we do want every game to be seven to five or what and it's like okay you can't have it both ways hmm right yeah i mean it like it was not a lot of defense and not much goal-tending too which That is the key factor to me. I think, yeah, obviously, you know, there's a lot of odd man rushes and that sort of thing. But the fact that, like, you know what goal is really, like, emblematic of that is the Nathan

McKinnon goal on Mike Smith to make, I think, to make it 2-2, maybe, where he just kind of, like, pokes the puck, like, the puck's way in front of him and he just kind of pokes it between Mike Smith's legs from six feet away or whatever. that goal was ridiculous like that that is in like a college hockey level goal in terms of oh boy that shouldn't have gone in

and look it's it's even us you know pro offense pro scorer like nobody's saying that we should have an average of 14 goals a game but occasionally yeah

and when you have like you know four or five of the best 10 or 15 players in the world in the same game, yeah, let's go ahead and rack it up a little bit, especially for an opening game. And I'm sure they'll work a little bit to figure out how they get this down to a more manageable level. But it was great. I was entertained, start to finish. I guess we have to talk about the offside thing would be the Yeah, like it's so funny.

Again, like we're always talking about, oh, we want more, we want more goals in the NHL. And then there's all these like Gen X or older hockey writers who were like, what about the spirit of the thing though? Is it the spirit of the offside? Shut up, dude. Yeah. Yeah.

You don't have to do this. I've got no issue with the NHL being like nitpicky and pedantic to keep a goal. That's what they should be doing on all of these things. Well, what they should be doing is not reviewing off sides. But if they're going to, they should be looking for every reason to count goals, not the way it usually goes, which is it feels like they're desperately trying to take goals off the board. You got to get those off the board. You got to get them off.

So I'm fine with the ruling. I was very surprised. At the time, I was shocked. I don't know what you guys got, but like on SportsNet up here, they were like, oh, this isn't going to count. And then they were like, why is this taking so long? Like, you only need to see this once for it to not count. And then when it did count, there was confusion. And then there was a lot of explanation.

And Elliot Friedman did a lot of work on not just explaining. Yeah, he pretty clearly had a direct line into the decision makers and not just explaining it, but pulling up examples and that. And I'm at the point now where I get it. I think it probably was the right call based on how this. I won't say how the rule is written because the rule is very ambiguous. But I've seen enough examples of similar calls that I can say that they probably got it right. But ultimately, as somebody who's neutral in this, I don't really even care that they get it right by the strict letter of the law. count the goal.

It was a great goal. Fun goal, yeah. We should be, we should be counting more of them. But I do think that they ultimately did get it right, even though the rule itself seems kind of ambiguous and weird and, and certainly counterintuitive. I mean, if you, I think 90% of hockey fans, if this was your first time encountering this sort of play, you're like, oh, that's not going to count. And then you had to figure out why it.

why it would. But yeah, count more goals, not less. I'm good with that. Yeah, my thing, I guess, is, you know, I think it was an abs game in the playoffs several years ago now, but it was like Landisog was coming off for a change. He was at the bench. And had like, you know, a sliver of his skate on the ice. And so the whole play didn't count.

Yeah. And I... That was a game seven. I thought, though... Yeah, right. And that was like one of those things where it's like, just kind of, like, he's not involved in the play. Just count the fucking, like, you know, that's the rule in soccer. You can be outside if you're not involved in the play.

Yeah. The second they kick the ball to you, that that's when it becomes a problem. And I think that should just be the rule in the NHL. And like, again, if we're trying to increase scoring, if a guy's not involved in the play, he can be behind the fucking red line for all I care, as long as he doesn't touch the puck, then who cares? Yeah, I mean, the argument is, well, you know, then the defense has to adjust it or whatever, but, you know, so whatever. It's, yeah, same thing with the kicked in goal from the Calgary series.

Like, it was already going in. That has nothing to do with the rule, but use a little common sense to keep goals on the board. So, yeah, I mean, I don't think the Oilers got screwed by the strict letter of the law. I don't, to, and I was happy to see. for once you know the NHL kind of twisting themselves

a bit to get to a good goal instead of the... Now, it would have been nice if any of this had been explained at the time instead of the ref just going

like, yeah, it's a goal and but we've been over that a million times and they're apparently never going to change that. So, yeah, I mean, I think in the end it was the right result,

probably the right call. call and a tough break for the Oilers because I understand completely why they challenged it. It ended up, you know, not only did they not get the goal overturned, but they give up the power play goal on the ensuing minor. But that's the way it's supposed to go, man. Like, you're not supposed to challenge unless you're really, really sure. And I don't know. I probably would have been really sure if I was Jay Woodcroft.

Right. I was going to say the same thing, yeah. Because like even, you know, Turner has like the ref to come on and explain, well, this is what they're going to call. And he's like, oh, this should be a goal. They're going to call this back. And then the second they do, he's like, okay, here's why they didn't call it back, which is, like, helpful. But also it's like, you could have said that three minutes ago while they were doing the room. I've heard it's been a rough ride for the, because both, don't ESPN and T&T both have a rep?

It's Koharski and is it Dave Jackson? Jackson is the Turner. And I've heard it's been a a rough ride, certainly compared to the NFL where, I mean, they have some guy comes in. He's like, oh yeah, this is what is going to happen. This is what they're looking at. This is what and it's. Yeah. And you know what? The good news is that's not a problem for hockey that every ref, no matter how experience they are, has a completely different interpretation of what the rule is. It's fine. Yeah. It's fine. The one, I've seen a lot over the last couple or maybe, I've seen a few. I've seen a few times in the last couple weeks where people have said, you know, maybe the NHL should have a thing

where if you challenge a play, they can say it's inconclusive and the play stands, but then you don't get the penalty. And it's like, no. That's a good idea. It's not. Don't do that. Because then they'll call everything inconclusive. Everything inconclusive.

Right. Great point. Nope. So, no, it should be, you should be. You should be. Say something about the NHL and then you go, oh, that makes sense. And then you go, but it's the NHL. Right.

I forgot it's the NHL. So it's going to be the worst possible outcome. They would just rule everything inconclusive. They would never give out the penalty. And then, you know, it, no, it's, you should get a penalty if you're wrong because the system is only supposed to be if you're absolutely sure. We're trying to juice offense. Yeah. Give out penalties for everything.

Yeah. You're being. Time out. That's a penalty. If you put your hand up and say, I don't think that goal should count, especially on some nitpicky thing, you're being a pain in the ass. And there should be a penalty for being a pain in the ass. So I'm... Hey, don't rock the boat.

I'm fine with that. By the way, I will say this, even though I think it was the right call, there's no way the linesman in real time was thinking about it that way. They just missed it. And then on replay, they looked at it and they're like, oh, I was wrong. But wait, I could actually be right. Honestly, I feel like yet last night there were about five or six plays, most of which obviously didn't end up in a goal, that I was like, this play is 100% offside. I don't know what that linesman is looking. And I think those were the only five or six plays that didn't end up in goals because, again, for sure.

So let me ask you this. What are your thoughts on the series as a whole? Like, well, what do you know? Just broadly speaking. pretend last night didn't happen. We're going in to game two fresh. What are your thoughts on this series? I mean, the abs are the better team,

but the Oilers absolutely have a chance. Like this is one of those modern day NHL things where you're like, yes, this team is clearly better. They have a 60-40 chance of winning the series. And then the fact that they've already got Game 1 in the bank moves that up. Except we don't know. at least as we're recording this, what the Darcy Kempers situation is. Correct.

So if he is out for any length of time, that maybe slides it back where it's kind of like the, sort of like the Pittsburgh New York series where after the first triple overtime game where you're like, yeah, they won, but they lost their goalie, that maybe kind of cancels out. And in that case, it did. Yeah. I'm trying to find it. I saw someone say that he took himself out of the game because he was having trouble seeing the puck and had blurry vision. Oh, wow.

Okay. And I can't remember where I saw this. Yeah, that's interesting because the one thing I noticed, and this is maybe I'm, this is probably me seeing things that aren't there. But I found it interesting that I believe when they announced that he wasn't coming back, They called it upper body, but they didn't say upper body injury, which suggests that, you know, it's normally, oh, I banged up my shoulder or my, you know, my, whatever. That had me thinking of others. And, I mean, that would certainly be there. I was worried a little bit, just the way that he went over and talked to the coach that maybe it was like a chest or a heart thing.

Like if he's like, yeah, I'm having like palpitations or whatever, get him out of there. but it was just a strange situation. He was late coming out for the period, which may or may not. Yeah, that was an equipment issue. Well, they said it was equipment and they showed it working on the equipment, but that could also be like he was late getting back to his gear and like getting, you know, ready to go. So I don't know what that was.

Okay. I can't find, I just saw a guy say Kemper pulled himself reportedly because of blurry vision. I can't find what that. report is. So that might be all bullshit. But, you know, he took that stick in the eye in the first round and I would say wasn't particularly great for a lot of games since then. And then, you know, he takes a puck or two off the face mask in the early goings of last night. And so it, like, would it surprise me if it's a vision problem? I guess it wouldn't. Yeah, and that's obviously, you know, anything like that.

I mean, anything's not good, but I mean, if he's, and he was asked, Gerr Bedner was asked after the game, how long will be out, and he basically just said, we'll see, which is, doesn't tell us anything except it's not him saying, no, no, he's fine. You know, he'll be back for game two. But, you know, you hope it's an injury, if it's anything, because, You know, injuries heal up and we know how to deal with them. Oh, I got it.

I found it. It's Adrian Dater said I was told by a source the injury might be an aggravation to the right eye, at least in some way. We won't know for sure. I'd be surprised if he plays in game, too. Okay. And that's what, uh, whatever you think of Dator, he's reasonably plugged in Colorado. So, um, yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, that that's very.

Boy, that would be very tough for Colorado. So another 8-6 game on tap for game two. And then what do you, if you're the Oilers, are you, you're going back to Mike Smith here? You have to. You know, like, you know, whatever you may think of Mike Smith, right? And I would say he has probably actively cost the Oilers, I don't know, three or four games in this postseason. and certainly only stolen maybe two or three. So I would say a net negative maybe, but like he's been mostly competent.

And I wouldn't have said net negative until last night when he absolutely was the reason they lost. Well, I mean, he certainly didn't help them out. He gave up six goals on 25 shots. End of discussion. Yeah, sure. Yeah. You need your goal. Even five on 25, you're like, oh, that's like an 800 save percentage.

You know, you can maybe work with that if you're the Oilers. Six on 25. That's a tough one. That's, I, look, you know, because they were doing the same thing. Look, you know, he gave up six goals on 25 shots, but, you know, it wasn't his fault. And it's like, yeah, there were definitely some goals that were not his fault. And the same was true at the other end. Like, multiple Oilers goals looked like the kind of goals.

you see in an all-star game where it's like, oh, there's nobody within 15 feet of that all-world level player, right? Yeah. But I thought he was, especially on the first two, the goals in the first period, I thought he was just horrendous. Yeah. Just waving at puck's not even, not, you know, he's like a third defenseman back there in that he shouldn't have been playing goal.

But. But like Miko Koskenen, look, there's a reason they're not going to him. And the reason is they trust him even less than they trust Mike Smith. Because with Mike Smith, you never know what you're going to get. With Miko Koskenin, you know what you're going to get. Bad goal to him. Yeah. And he was fine last night, but, you know, in fact, kept them in it.

But the, I think the thing, if you've got any question, the tipping point is that we did this last series, right? I mean, Mike Smith got shelled, came out now. In that game, Koskin and also got shelled. Yes. But then Smith comes back and he, you know, he went forward. Like, that is one nice thing about having a 40-year-old goalie. They tend to have shorter memories.

Like, you know, he's not going to be rocking himself to sleep at night. You know, he's been down this road before. He's had lots and lots of bad games and he'll, be back to whatever he is in game two, but he's not going to drag this in with them. So I think now, if they get shelled again, then maybe you're thinking about it. Because you're out, like, I did, it was one of those things like I don't, other than the one McKinnon one, like I didn't feel like any of the goals were bad goals, but it's sort of like you. I thought the McCar goal, like, yeah, he wired that, but also you had like 60 feet or whatever.

It was, it was one of those things where it's like, you know, the. the torterella thing where he's like, like, we just need a save. And you just weren't getting any saves on anything other than the basics. So, um, I would say for like his truly bad games in, in this postseason,

like, I guess the issue is that like, yeah, that the game after the Calgary game, he bounced back and, you know, what did he give up like three on 45 or something like that? Like,

he got shelled and wasn't terrible. As in the bounce back game there. Um, But I got to say, I thought, you know, they won the, they won obviously the last couple games of the Calgary series. I didn't think he was that good. I think, excuse me, this is maybe three bad games in a row a little bit from Mike Smith. So I don't know. You know, they won two of them, so what are you going to say?

And this is what they knew they were in for, right? This isn't, this isn't Jacob Markstrom suddenly crapping the bed for four games. and you go, oh, we didn't have that built into the plan. Like, you're not expected Mike Smith to be great or even good. You just need him to be good enough that Connor McDavid and friends can win games for you. And it almost worked last night. So this is a series. This is, uh, yeah.

Yeah, and I thought, I thought McDavid, you know, as advertised again, like just, man, the Matt, the Matt, The matchups where, you know, he, because everybody said, oh, it'll be McKinnon line versus McDavid line, head to head, every time, you know. And I thought when they were on the ice together, I think probably McKinnon outscored them, but the abs looked way more, or the Oilers looked way more dangerous when he was on the ice against McDavid. Yeah, no, that's, that's fair. Oh, man. No, yeah, no. They actually got outscored two to one when it was McDavid and McKinnon head-to-head.

So there you go. Do you others, dude? Yeah. Oh, well, okay. Well, there we go. McKinnon's now the best player in the world. We've got to... No, I'm sorry.

No. I misheard you. McDavid outscored... Okay, McDavid's back to the best player in the world. Yeah, he's done. All right. Well, and that's the other thing. I saw people saying this whole time, obviously.

oh, McKinnon versus McDavid. It's like it doesn't feel like it should be McCar versus McDavid at this point. Like, isn't that the guy that's the best player on the Colorado language? Yeah, well, okay. But yeah, so let's talk, I guess, quickly about the teams, these two teams eliminated. The St. Louis Blues and the Calgary Flames. Let's start with the Blues. The big question, I guess, you would have to ask.

is do you think if Jordan Bennington is in there, St. Louis wins that series? Because I don't. No. I think the abs were kind of irresistible in that series. Yeah, I think, again, the avalanche or, I mean, they were the best team in that series. They were the best team in the league. So I don't think that was the decisive moment. I do think that, you know, look, you lose your starting goalie.

That matters. So it certainly didn't help, but I don't think that one play or that one injury was the difference between the Blues winning or losing the series. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, like, I didn't even think Huso was bad. He did not have a good game six. But on the balance, I think I would say Huso was like fine. And, you know, this is what the abs can do to a perfectly fine. fine goalie.

Yep. Now, on that subject, can we, is this the point where we can make fun at Jordan Bennington and his? You know, I really wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt on this. Right. Where, like, because everybody saw the quote yesterday where it's like it was a God-given opportunity for me to huck an empty water bottle at the sky, whatever. And so I'm like, okay.

Maybe the quote is removing the context, blah, blah, blah. Then I went and watched the video of him, and he is like deadpanning. No, this was a God-given opportunity and, you know, sometimes things that, you know, really went into hockey player mode. Like he was talking about going hard to the net and having his stick on the ice. And fortunately, my teammate found me, you know, that kind of thing. But he was like, and so, of course, I did have to throw the water bottle at him. I'd love that his explanation was like, look, in that situation, I can either walk away and do nothing or I can throw a water bottle at the guy. It was like, yeah, that's true for most dumb things you can do.

Yeah, I had the choice to do the dumb thing or not do the dumb thing. So, I mean, what do you want me to do? Yeah. And to do the dumb thing. Yeah, I think it reminds me of the Tom Cruise quote from a couple weeks ago of, you know, they asked him, you know, why do you do all these deathifying stunts? in all your movies. Like, you do the real stunts. You're like a 60-year-old man.

Why? And he goes, they never asked Gene Kelly why he danced. That's right. Yep. And it's like, that's right. They never asked why Jordan Bennington was acting like a big babe. Yeah.

They never asked why Jordan Binnington was acting like a total fake tough guy. Yeah. But, yeah. And again, I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt because... I mean, we know you're a big binnington guy. I love him. But that quote totally read, me as with context, I bet he said it with like a wry smile or something like that.

No. No, no, no. Um, but I do want to give him a little bit of credit here. He did say he was carrying it only at that point because he was looking for a recycling bin and couldn't find. Oh, well, that's good. Yeah. So and and. Earth first.

We like that. And he did and he did make the point that I think we can all agree on that now Nazim Cadre has to marry his mother-in-law. That was the, I think you should leave if you're not following. Get on there. The other thing about that that I guess we do have to give him credit for is he's like, well, look, he was going hard to the net. Like, I was mad at the moment, but like, that's just him doing his job.

Well, correct. Kind of, right? Like, his thing was sort of like, hey, he, you know, he was going hard to the net, but also, like, I don't know, maybe this is me reading into it. He seemed to still be implying the big Bennington defender on this podcast. Yeah, I know. Wow. What a world.

He sounded like he was sort of like implying that there was still something wrong with it where he was like, yeah, you know, it's a hockey player, but he knows that things can happen. And he knows what could have happened. I get what you're saying. Sort of like he knew like he could injure me. So even though it was clean, he still, you know, I still had to throw a lot. I don't know. But anyways, I, we won't go any further because I can tell you're just going to get upset. and, you know, just defend Jordan Binnington to the death.

So that's fine. Yeah, we all have our... Why is everybody coming for my best friend Jordan Binnington? We all have our, you know, we stand. Yeah. The other thing about the Blues is they had their like getaway day yesterday, which is where the Bennington quote came from. And basically they were like, oh, yeah,

we're not worried about what happens with Tarasenko next season. Yeah. Really? He's a pending on a restrictive free agent. He requested a trade. Maybe they're not worried because they're like, because we're trading him two weeks from now. But I was surprised by that. I thought, you know, they'd have a more, let's say, you know, we'll wait and see kind of answer.

I mean, I guess to say that you're not worried is sort of the cliche. Maybe they're not worried because they worried last year. And then they didn't do anything last year. Yeah. And everything worked out great. So maybe that's it. I mean, I think you probably, I don't see them extending him. No.

So you either trade him or maybe you just go, yeah, like, that's. One more kick at the can with this group. I wrote about this today. Like in every other sport, it's completely normal to go like, yeah, we're going to have this guy to the end of his contract and he'll be productive. And then we won't have him anymore. will get somebody else. Like it's only in hockey where it's like, oh, God, what if they lose him for nothing?

Prepare to hear the term own rental six billion times in relation to Vladimir Terracek. The stupidest phrase in hockey, own rental. It's an own rental. Rental. Like I guess my thing with the Blues for next season is they have a lot of really good young players

that I like a lot, right? And those players should continue to improve because they're young. You're Jordan Kairus, Robert Thomas, that kind of thing. However, I will say that the whole thing about, you know, the St. Louis Blues had 58 guys who scored 20 goals this season. I wouldn't expect that to continue into next. That number was high.

That really, every once in a while it feels like a team does that where, like, for example, I think it was the 2011 Bruins where like half the team had 20 goals. And you're just like, oh, I guess, is that real? Is that, and it turns out it's usually not particularly real. And, yeah, I think, I think it was like Milan Luchich had 30 goals that year or whatever, and it's like, yeah, counting on Milan Luchich to be a 30 goal guy is maybe not what you want to do going forward, you know. And I would say that's true of a lot of the guys who scored a bunch of goals on the blues. Not that they're not going to score like 15 or whatever, but just being like, well, surely they'll keep scoring 20.

forever. That's where you start getting into a little bit of dicey territory. And one of those guys was Braden Chen who did not score at all in the playoffs and was the, he is like this year's guy who didn't produce in the playoffs and you're like, aha, that's bad. And then he's like, yeah, my body was not working. I had broken ribs and all this other stuff. And you're like, oh, you should have been in the hospital. Okay.

I guess we can be too mad at you. Yeah. Yeah, you know, that's always a thing where I just sit there and kind of wonder, like, is the next guy up really that much worse than this guy who can barely move? Like, they have to wheel him into the arena like Hannibal Lecter just because they can't. Yeah. He can't walk. Yeah. But the other thing to say, I was going to say a second ago, is Villi Huso is a pending unrestricted free agent.

And I'm fascinated to see what they do with him. because he was their starter for a good chunk of the season, obviously lost that job in the playoffs. I would say somewhat fairly. But I think I said it last week. There's a reason he's like a 26 or 27-year-old or whatever who was making 750 grand, right? Yep.

But was quite good this year. And you're right. This is a situation where I'm sure his agent is going, And like, dude, this is where you have to go get your contract. And it's not going to be a monster deal somewhere, but this is where you go get something well into the seven figures. And the Blues already have six million committed long term to your apparent favorite player. So they can't.

Best in the league. To bring him back at like, you know, two or three million or something like that. And I don't know. The goaltending free agent market is weird this year. There's Darcy Kemper, potentially. There's Mark Andre Fleury, but I mean, who knows? He's probably very limited in where he would go. And it could be Huso next, right?

Like he might be the guy, Jack Campbell, I guess, it would be another one, but he could be the next guy up. So, yeah, unless he really loves it in St. Louis, he should absolutely hit the market and see what happens. Yeah, no, for sure. it's a really interesting question because I'm just even from the blues perspective. What are you, what do you do? I don't know.

But yeah, let's move on to the Calgary Flames. They're in a weird position as well because they have two-thirds of their top line, two of the best players at their positions in the world. Johnny Goddrow is a pending unrestricted free agent and kind of seems like he's maybe going to test the market, as they say. And then a restricted free agent in Matthew Kachuk, who is a year away from unrestricted free agency and I believe has like a $9 million qualifying offer. Right, which they would desperately not want to use because that walks him. Right to U of his status. So.

But like that means that nine million is like the starting point for any conversation about what he gets paid. You would certainly imagine. So I mean, it did we saw with like, yes, Barry Gott-Kanami. It doesn't have to be, but this guy is actually good and productive. So yeah, I think like he he's got all the leverage in the world to really work them on a long-term deal. And I, like, if I'm Calgary, I give him eight years at like 10 million bucks without reservation. This is one of those, yeah, at his age, like this is not, you know, we're always, what, 24? He's, uh, 23?

He's got to be at least 24 if he's a year away from free agency, I think. He is, he will be 25 in December. So, but I mean, this, you know, we're always, oh, you know, these long-term contracts that are good at the beginning. and then at the end you pay, and like, no, I mean, this is one of those very rare opportunities to give an eight-year deal to a guy and actually get value

the whole eight years. So it's going to be a question of what does he want? Does he, you know, does 10 million even do it? Does he want Mitch Marner money? Does he want even more than that coming off 100-point season, 40-goal season?

Yeah, he could absolutely get a ton and in isolation you give it to him but then you've also got Johnny Godreau also coming off a career year and it obviously is an unrestricted free agent he's got all the leverage because

the only leverage the flames have is they can give him the eighth year if he signs before whatever the July 1st equivalent is this year I think it's the 13th maybe That sounds right. I'm remembering right. And Johnny Godroke turns 29 this summer.

So this is one where if you go eight years or even seven years, you probably are expecting diminishing returns at some point. But that doesn't mean you don't do it. But it does me. I mean, maybe he's right in that sweet spot where that eighth year might tip him towards staying. And it sounds like he wants to stay. But again, you're probably looking at, I mean, is this another $10 million a year deal? And can you afford that? Yeah, I think the baseline for what you pay them combined is about $19, $20 million.

I don't know that you're going to, I don't know you can get both of them for 19. That's what I'm saying. Unless you go like a shorter deal on Kachuk, which is also a positive, like go two or three years knowing that he's going to hit unrestricted free. agency at 27 and really cash in that that's an option but I don't know if it's the best one that's dicey though man I don't know well it's dicey for the team but if I'm Matthew Kachuk I might prefer that right I might say like no I don't want to I don't want to give me a one year contract every well every year for until I'm product no longer in my I mean if you're Kachuk you'd absolutely want a one year deal but I mean he could in theory he can go to the team and say

I will not sign for longer than three years and we're not used to that that in hockey. In hockey, it's always the longer deal is what the player wants. But in the NBA, for example, that, you know, there's no star players who are like, yeah, lock me up for the better part of a decade with no possibility of a raise at any point. Yeah. But yeah, like, I don't know how you get both these, because the thing with Johnny Goodrow, he can sit down and say, like, I'll get 10 million as an unrestricted free agent. So why should I start anywhere, um, anywhere south of that. Right.

Yeah. And because they also have to pay Manjiapani and Shillington as well, that both those guys are up. And they won't be cheap. Manjia Pani had a great season. Shillington. I'd be very good season. I'm really interested to see what Godrell gets because he could legitimately point to like Tavares and Panarin and say like, I'm in the same class as those guys.

And they both got numbers that started with 11. And at the same time, like up until, I mean, his last two years were not great. But then this year absolutely was. So if he's sitting there going, I can get seven times 11. I can get 77 million free agent. The Flyers or some team like that will absolutely give me that. So even if you're talking about an eight-year deal, you're already close to 10 million. and just on that.

Right. So, oh, that's... Since 2019, Johnny Godreau is ninth in the league in... I'm sorry, 2016,

is ninth in the league in scoring. Yeah. That's a lot of points. He is a lot of points, especially considering he didn't have a ton of them the last couple years, so... Yeah, and well, to that point,

you know, even despite that, 15th in points per 60 in all situations. This guy's really good. He's going to get a whole shitload of money. Everybody in front of them. Kuthorov, McDavid, Stamkos, Caprizov, Marshand, Malkin, Pasternak,

Hugh Rodeau, Drysidal Panarin, Matthews, Crosby, McKinnon, Robertson. Those are all like all world players. You know, like guys who, you know, if Marshand and Pasternak were paid fairly and Hubert O2, I guess, you'd be like, well, all of those guys should be making like 10 million bucks, right? And this isn't a guy having a career year at like 32. It's, you know, he's definitely older than you would expect a guy to hit his prime, but it's not, you know, it's not such an outlier that you shake it off. I do think, man, I, you know, Two years ago, he had a 99-point season. Yeah.

So, like, the idea that, you know, he had a hundred-point season this year. He finally got there. Well, he was pretty close that one time. Top five in Hart Trophy. That, uh, I do wonder the teams that are looking at them, and there will be, if he gets there a bunch. I do wonder how-Hiladelphia Flyers are the obvious one. Um, you know, you look at the devils. You wonder, like, would Seattle use some of their cap space?

but I do wonder how much are we going to see the clip of that Connor McDavid overtime goal where Godreau is just out to lunch, just floating around the defensive zone, not close to anyone, not taking anyone, looking like he's getting ready to fly the zone. Like it's three on three in the regular season, and that's how the season ends. Which, you know, it's one play, but it was a big play. probably cost him a couple of bucks.

10, 15 maybe. Maybe, yeah. Any other thoughts on the Flames? You know, we said last week, like, Marchram was just awful. Yeah. And I don't think that, I mean, that doesn't worry me in the sense that,

I do, it's simplistic, but I do look at this Flames team as, as, and I say, like, your goalie just got cold at the worst possible time. That and also the best player the world decided he was going to be the best player of all time for a week and a half. I, you know, I'll say this, and I might even write a thing on this later. I loved Daryl Sutter after that series just being like, like, their players were better than

ours. Like, their guys played better. He didn't get up there and go, they wanted it more. He didn't say, like, oh, they had a higher gritty, compete heart level. And this is a Sutter. for once an NHL coach was just like, no, man, they played better. Like, their guys were, like, I think I've even got the quote here somewhere, but, you know, he just, he didn't, he didn't do the same crap that everybody else is. Yeah, he says, maybe our guys are doing all they can.

Maybe Edmonton's just a little bit better right now. That's, yeah, that's a wild thing for a Sutter to say. For a coach in the NHL, for anyone in the NHL to say, we're so, we're so locked in. And other sports don't do this. We're so locked in that it's never talent, it's never execution. It's never, it's always just who tried hardest. And every coach, I've got this list. Now, I haven't done anything with it yet of just coaches with ridiculous, like, oh, they just wanted it more.

We didn't try hard enough. And that's the beginning and the end of the analysis. And here's Daryl Sutter, like, no, there are guys, our guys tried as hard as they could. And it wasn't enough because the oilers are better than us or the oilers. or the Oilers at least were better. And I just, I love that. That was so refreshing to me. Yeah, he's had a nice series of,

of like non-NHL style quotes, the last little while. The quote about, you know, playing the abs in the first round is a waste of eight days. Yes. He's been great. He's been a great quote this year

after a decade where we all had to pretend he was a great quote when he was just kind of being a jerk. Like, like with the Kings, like they'd be like, how did your team play? and he'd be like, good. And people were like, oh, Gerald Sutter's so funny.

He gave a one word answer. And it's like, no, he's just kind of being a dick up there. He's doing the Belichick thing. Yeah. But whereas now he's like, he seems legitimate. Like, did you see the one where he was talking about the playing his brothers in the playoffs? And like whoever lost had to get on the tractor on Tuesday because that was the rule at the farm at home. And, you know, it was, he's good.

I like him a lot now. And he really won me over with that quote about the Oilers just being better. Yeah. Well, you know what? When we take a break and we'll be right back to talk about the Eastern Conference final. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Athletic Greens. And folks, I say it, I think every week, I started taking Athletic Greens because they, you know, sent me some. And I would always have been very skeptical. Oh, do I want to become like a green juice guy and that kind of stuff?

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what do you think? Well, everyone's talking about the goaltending matchup, and which, yes, rightly, understandably so. Two best goalies in the league. That's kind of, I've seen a lot of people say like, oh, yeah, this is going to be the low-scoring series. You know, there were more goals in the Flames,

or sorry, the Oilers-Aves game, than there will be in the whole series. And I'm not quite convinced to that. partly because for all the talk of, you know, all the talent in Edmonton, Colorado, like there's a ton in this series too. Yep. So I don't, you know, I'm not thinking we're going to get a bunch of one-nothing games, but I do think we're going to get, hopefully this will be the series that,

you know, whenever there's an 8-6 game and people go, ah, I want some gold tonight. Hopefully we get back and forth lots of action, lots of scoring chances. and then if it's 3-2, that's fine, because it'll still be an exciting game with great goaltending. And by great goaltending, I mean, goaltenders actually making saves as opposed to just getting hit in the chest by shots that had no chance

because there was nothing else for the player to do. I'm looking forward to it. I think you're going to be a little... But like both of these goalies are just so good, these are not your Mike Smith or Jonathan Quick or whatever, whatever, where it's like they're making a lot of saves and they're doing it by being athletic and just being a little bit out of position, but getting there anyway. These are two guys where it's like, oh, no, it seems like every puck hits them right in the chest or whatever, right in the pad. So, you know, that's a tough one.

But I think, I guess the thing that I'm kind of looking at here is that these teams will kind of need their goaltending because, like, obviously you wouldn't look at what they're. the Rangers have done all season and even in this playoff and go, I got to tell you, I really think the Rangers can lock down the Tampa Bay Lightning. No. Right? Like, they just, you know, they give up a lot of expected goals and scoring chances and all that kind of thing. And then Igor Shesirkin is there to be like, I got this stuff.

You don't need to worry about all that. And as every Ranger fan would say, goaltending is part of hockey. The goalie is on the roster, so, you know, it's... 100%. It's, but yeah, you're right. This, they are going to... This is not the 95 Devils with Martaam Broder. No.

They're going to need him to be the best goalie in this series, which would make him the best goalie in the world. And he might. Right. Yeah, but at the same time, the thing that I kind of think about is I would say, the one area of Tampa's whole thing that I'm not like totally convinced they're good to go with is their PK. And the Rangers Power Play obviously feasted down the stretch against Carolina. But like, it was great all year, you know, well, for most of the year anyway.

And they have a lot of finishing talent and, you know, Chris, Ryder's going to be around the net, no matter who he's matched up against and that sort of thing. So, like, while I think the Rangers will kind of continue to get caved in in this series, I think they also have the talent to, you know, make the lightning pay for any minor mistake they might make. You know what I mean? So that's why I think goaltending, like, I agree with you. I don't know that it's necessarily going to be like a bunch of games or two, one. It wouldn't surprise me

just because of the quality of the the goaltenders involved, but I think both teams can make it where it's like, oh, these are a bunch of four, three games where everybody just kind of played pretty well, you know? That's my hope anyway. That'd be great.

I'd absolutely take that. And it's, it's, it has the potential to be, I mean, it has potential to be a great series. And, you know, the rain. I guess are the underdog Cinderella team of this year's playoffs, but they don't really feel that way.

Like none of us coming into this season were like, yeah, this is the team that's going to come out of the metro. But, right. Yeah, they've got a ton of talent. Yeah, we all thought it was going to be the Islanders. That's right. Yeah. Worked out great.

Yeah. So it's, I'm looking forward to it a lot. And it's great. I mean, if you're a Rangers fan, I don't, in the moment they wouldn't agree with this. But it feels like you're already playing with house money. Because for sure. You've gained a ton of experience.

You had great moments. You've enjoyed the hell out of a run from a team that was no sure thing to even make the playoffs. And you figure it's nowhere to go but up from here now. Obviously, we've seen lots of teams assume that and then it doesn't work out. But man, you got a hell of a fight against this lightning team because, boy, they're good. I guess the other thing we have to say is now this is where we bring up that weird stat about teams that have swept versus teams that have just played a seven game series. I don't know this stat. Say to me what the stat is.

When a team, when there is a matchup between a team that swept the previous round and a team that went seven the previous round, the team that went seven has won game one like seven of the last seven times. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me at all. Not even a little bit. Yeah. And I believe it's that they've won game one. Maybe it's won the series. I'd have to check into that.

But anyways, again, this is the rest versus rest sort of thing. But it's weird because the lightning had basically been having a training camp for the last week and a half. Right. But I don't think they're going to, well, I don't think they're going to come in rusty. but even if they do, I mean, they look like garbage against the Leafs in game one. And I don't remember how that turned out, but they're still here. So probably okay. And I don't know, this is, I'm too excited already about the potential of a lightning avalanche final.

But even putting that aside, every possible matchup is great. This is the time of year where usually there's like that one matchup. Like this time last year, we're all like, oh, God, don't let it be Montreal in the island. Sure. This year it's like, what's the worst matchup? Rangers, Oilers? Okay, I'll take that. Sign me up.

Yes, I will, I'll absolutely watch the hell out of that final. So this is, this is, I, I wrote a piece a couple days ago. I'm like, the playoffs have been great. And I don't really know what to do because I'm usually the complaining guy. And they've just been pretty awesome so far. And they look like they might continue that way. So we'll see. Yeah, like, I'm also looking forward to the series.

The one thing that I have hated in recent weeks, or days, rather, is all these people were like, you know, the Rangers haven't played a good goal yet. Yep. Don't play a good goal. Don't do my voice. That's, that's like not untrue, right? But it's like, what were they supposed to do? Be like, you know what?

We'll wait until Tristan Jarre is coming back. No. Yeah, there's nothing they could do, but also you can point it out. Like, you know, Rangers fans getting mad. Like I, you know, sending like, look at Antirantus stats. He's, he, you know, he had a 9-10 saver. Yeah, as the backup goalie. Like, he is the backup goalie.

Right. He played a bunch of, he played a bunch of Winnipeg Jets games. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, you know, you're saying our third string, you know, we face third strings. We, you know, the hurricane's third string guy only came in with like, yeah, in a game seven that was still very much up for grabs. That did happen.

They're not out here running goalie. he's left it right and, you know, take them out or anything. But this is happening. You're thinking of Jacob Truba checking guys in the head. Yes, that's exactly. Yeah, they're doing that. So, I mean, I don't, yeah, I often say, like, you can only play who the schedule puts in front of you and you can only play the roster that team has available to

play you. You don't have to apologize for it. But at the same time, to say that this team has been going from, you know, spicy pork and guys game seven. Oh, he had the broccoli. Dude, it was so funny. It was so good. It was so great.

But they're going from that to facing Andre Vasilevsky. Yeah, that is a significant change. And I don't owe it to Rangers fans to pretend that they've been doing this against elite level goaltending. Well, let me, let me say that. I guess my thing was, I feel like I saw it a lot from like Pittsburgh columnists. You know what I mean? Like I think somebody

I can't remember who it was, but somebody had to call him the other day. Like, you know, if the Rangers were playing good goalies, and it's like, yeah, but I mean, sorry your goalies weren't healthy.

And oh, that's the other thing, especially with the Penguins. It's like, oh yeah, Tristan Jari fucking playoff warrior. The Penguins weren't trying to trade him a year and a half ago,

trying to get out from under his nasty contract, right? No, no, no. And it's the same thing with Freddie Anderson. Oh, yeah, Freddie Anderson, the playoff warrior, Freddie Anderson, who's had so much postseason success. Yeah, the Rangers wouldn't have had any trouble, you know, scoring power play goals against that guy. No, no, no.

What are you talking about? Yep. No, that's... That's... That's... That part is fair. That part is fair. But also, all this stuff did happen.

Sure. But let's talk about Carolina quickly here. They have an interesting offseason ahead of them as well. They're not like looking down at a, oh, we might have to trade so and so and like the blues or we got to resign like elite level players like the flames. But they just have a shitload of free agents they have to sign. I'll just run down the list really quick of, like, guys who are consequential, let's say, with all due respect to Stephen Lawrence. Marty Natchez, RFA needs a new deal, not arbitration eligible, that helps. Max Domi, Nino Nieder writer, Vince Trocheck.

That's up front. On the back end, Ethan Baer, Tony DeAngelo, arbitration eligible, RFA's, Ian Cole needs a new, contract. Brendan Smith needs a new contract. I think in both of the cases of those the UFA defensemen, um, I feel like you get, you're fine letting them walk or bringing the back if the money's right, you know, they don't want a lot of money. I think you're fine. And Rand and Anderson are also both eligible for extensions or you can just eligible, let them go and do what you did last year and go get new goalies. Kind of worked did, for a little while. It did work. Um, and then obviously,

Obviously, you've got to think about whether Jake Gardner is ever going to play again, because he's a year away from unrestricted free agency as well, and that gives you a little extra breathing room. But the thing I want to talk about is, what do you give NACIS? What do you give Bayer? What do you give DeAngelo? Because I think it's a really interesting question on all three. Natchez is like a what 40 point guy something like that

23 years old so he's a guy where you can easily talk yourself into well you just give him like what you give him the hurricane special what if we give you $4 million for six years how's that sound? Yep

And it's this is also Carolina where they can be weird about contracts and have interesting expectations and whether that's because of budget or philosophy or whatever, if they're not giving you an offer sheet, they tend to be sort of tough to deal with works out for them. But yeah, it's going to be interesting for all of them. But, you know, Tony DiAngelo, does he, you know, what's he willing to do?

I mean, he came in, took the cheap prove it deal. he now feel like he has proven it. Well, he had to, but I mean, he had a pick of probably a few places he could have gone. Does he feel like he's proven it or does he, and now he wants to cash in? Or is there some sense of loyalty that, hey, these guys gave me that gave me that chance? I don't know. We should point out, it's very, very funny that Tony DiAngelo got knocked out by the New York Rangers. Oh, yeah, for sure.

That is extremely amusing. And also the really, the worst thing that happened in that series, that was TNT or ESPN cut away from the handshake line before Tony DiAngelo got to Georgia? Yeah, I was not watching at that point, but I agree. Inexcusable. What are you doing? Yeah, there was a problem. point, there was a point last night during the oiler game where, where, like, there was a thing where, you know, a guy gets kicked out of the face off circle for some, like, perceived violation of fairness.

And they cut, just like for a split second, they cut to Van der Kaine right when he's saying, what are you doing? Just drop the fucking puck. Yeah. Like, very obviously saying drop the fucking puck. It rogged. It was very funny. But, yeah, we really miss. out on a good one there for sure. Yeah. By the way, it's partly because it's, I guess, a little bit related to the

Tony DiAngelo thing, but did you see Evander Cain's agent apparently tweeted out like a... A big money bag? That was great. I agreed. And, well, you know, again, this is the NHL where like tweeting an emoji, you're like, oh, it's the funniest thing that ever happened

in this league. But he's right. He's scored 13 goals and 13 games or whatever it is. It's pretty good. It is. Yeah, he's leading the league in postseason goals, but it's sort of like, dude, maybe not. Also, I feel like Evander Cain maybe shouldn't be like tweeting out bags of money, but whatever. Look, I don't disagree with your point.

I'm just saying, like, it's true. He's going to get a shitload of money. He is going to get, yeah, he is going to get a lot. Now, I do wonder who's going to give him that money, because I can see the PR headaches obviously coming a month. You can sell to people, hey, look, all baggage aside, we got this guy for a million bucks or whatever, the Oilers paid him. You can sell that to people, redemption story, all that shit.

Can you sell, we're giving this guy $7 million for $5 million? I mean, I feel like, honestly, the amount of blowback that the oilers got blew blew over fairly quickly. Yeah, I agree. I think if I'm another team, I'm looking at, I'm looking at like hockey mad Edmonton in a, you know, Canadian market and all of this. People were mad for like three days and then he started scoring. Well, you know, it's hard to argue with a guy who scored like at a 40 goal pace or whatever.

You know, like if you can get that kind of, I get, I get why, you know, it's the same thing with DeAngelo, the baggage. Like the hurricanes had to have meetings with their season ticket holders to be like, we just think he's good at hockey, you know? And so, yeah, like, you do get, you're probably whoever signs Tony DeAngelo this summer if, like, the hurricanes trade them or what, or let him walk even, which I would be surprised, but maybe not because it didn't really cost him anything, you know. So, yeah, I, I wonder what those, what those guys are going to get.

But, like, I, you can totally make the hockey case for Tony. DeAngelo has proven that he deserves to be paid what the Rangers were paying him before they bought him out. Yeah. If you're the Hurricanes, how do you manage all of this and still add some sort of top level scoring? Because that seems to be the consensus that they just didn't have enough elite guys. Not, you know, team-wide offense, fine. Sebastian Ajo is a very good player. Andres Fetchnikov didn't have much of a playoff,

which I think is the second straight year that that's the case, which is maybe a bit concerning. But he's 22. He's going to be, continue to get better. But that they need another piece at least. And I mean, they've got trade assets to go out and do something.

I don't I don't It would be out of character For them to be bidding on Free Like big time free agents But maybe But I don't know

How you fit that all in But it also feels like for them to get to the next step Which for them The next step is like Stanley Cop favorite I think they need another top level piece And that's Those are Those are those things

Very hard to get in this list league. Yeah. The, the, the obviously, you know, related to not being able to score, uh, they were, uh, eight of 66 down the stretch in the, uh, regular season. Their last like 30 games or whatever, um, eight of 66 on the power play. That's not good enough. And then, uh, in the postseason, they were seven of 54. So similarly not very effective. And do you want to say that this is, uh, because they didn't have that big time weapon, or like maybe Svetchnikov was playing hurt or whatever. I totally buy all that.

I wonder how many guys who, like, would even be available, given the flat cap situation and that kind of thing. Like, the hurricanes do a good job. They don't have a first round pick this year, but they have plenty to go the next couple of years. I don't know. Like, how do you make that work with the cap with having to resign all these guys? Like, I think it starts with you let DeAngela walk because DeAngela is going to be expensive.

I guess you see. Or you trade his rights or whatever. Trade his rights is probably more. And, you know, you see what he wants. But, yeah, and it's the cap plus is there an internal budget that's significantly different than the cap. which, you know, in fairness, they've, yeah, in fair, I mean, they've, they've, they've, they've spent. But, yeah, I mean, if you can, if you can do something to make Jake Gardner go away, that helps. Well, again, like, I think he's just like, LTIR retired.

But even like, you know, it's a, you, you'd rather not have guys like that. Montreal. Yeah, it gives you more freedom if you don't have to. and especially, you know, the LTIR really helps you only if you're going up to the cap. Otherwise, it's, it just, again, I think, I think they would for, you know, the right. They should. They're right there. And yeah, so they probably will.

So, I mean, I guess in a way, it's nice to, I'd probably rather have a half dozen, um, middle lineup slash depth guys to deal with than one or two franchise players, like some the other teams have, but yeah, they've got some work cut out for them. Hear me out, Johnny Goddrault. Maybe. Something to think about, especially Jordan Stahl's coming off the books next season, then that'll be a guy who, you know, he costs $6 million. He's a really good player, but is he a $6 million player?

Well, maybe. Yep. So, yeah, I, you know, other than that, their long-term, their long-term outlook is interesting just because they have their defense. The bulk of their defensemen signed for a couple of years, and then who knows. One last thing on them. Sure. Isparry, Kockenemi, two points in two rounds.

Two secondary assists as an eight-year deal kicking in. I hate stuff like this because their hurricanes are pretty clearly smarter than most teams, which means they are absolutely smarter than guys on podcasts. I hope they're right on this guy because I'm not seeing it so far. Yeah, I mean, he's turning 22 in July. So plenty of room to, you know, three more, three, four more seasons to keep growing. And, you know, there are plenty of guys. at the rate they have him

is a huge win. And I don't mean he has to be like an all-star 80-point guy. But. Yeah, I mean, look, like there are plenty of guys who just really like, you know, how many people come into the league at 18 or whatever and are impact players by the time that, like nobody's Jason Robertson, I guess is my point, right? or very few, Jason Robertson's Jason Robertson.

But very few guys are Jason Robertson. I really do think it takes till you're like 20, like especially if you're brought in earlier than you probably should be, like they did with Kotkinemi in Montreal. Yeah, he was, you know, and he was very, very young when he got drafted. I guess my counter argument would be there are guys who are a top three overall pick and four years later are having much more impact than,

than this guy is right now. Yeah. But like I guess what I'm saying is it, it doesn't, it wouldn't be surprising to me at all if at age 24 we're like, damn, what is, what is, what is bargain that? Yeah, that's obviously what the gamble is. But I can obviously see it going the other way too. Yeah. Where you want for me.

That's how gambols work. You know, Sean, I hadn't thought about that. That is how gambles work. Yeah. Speaking of which, this podcast is brought to you by eight hours of gambling ads later. I was just going to say, like, boy, it's getting bad on these NHL broadcasts. It is, like, yeah. It's unbelievable.

I was actually surprised. When I wrote my piece this week about, like, how good the playoffs have been, that was the number one thing people came back with is how frustrated people are with the overwhelming amount of gambling content, not just ads, but forced content and everything. I don't know that, like, I don't know that there's a backlash. And I can't, there's obviously enormous money for the league and the TV partners and everything here. But I think, if anything, I underestimated how frustrated a lot of fans seem to be with how this is going. Yeah, it's a bit much for sure.

And now, like, now even it's getting into wrestling where, like, you can bet on AEW shows. and stuff like that and WWE. And it's just like, that had always been the case and it was just like super, that's how you knew what was going to happen all the time

because people would just look at the betting lots at the day of the show. Yeah, the money would move hugely. Yeah, no, that's true. But I'm saying like on AEW, they're going like, and don't forget, you can bet on how many tables get broken and how many like this and that.

On the show? Oh, God. Yeah, it's, That's what I'm saying. Like, they're doing it on the show now. They're like, who's going to, who's going to hit their finisher first? You can bet on that. And it's like, yeah, that sucks.

Oh, boy, oh, boy. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm not like, like up here, Sportsnet is just inundated with this stuff, including there's like an intermission segment where they talk. Yeah, same here. And it's, like, on the one hand, I don't want to see any more people I like get laid off from sports media jobs. so if this is what means that, you know, we don't have an unround of that.

I'm, I guess I'm okay with it. I can be annoyed. Put it this way. I don't mind being annoyed. But it's not like they're advertising, you know, mattresses all the time to the point where it's annoying. They're advertising something that is actively harmful for a lot of people. Right. Yeah.

I don't know. I didn't watch uncut gems and think to myself. I wish there was more people like this. Yeah. I wish there was more Howie's out there. Anyway, yeah. So anyways, check me out on my podcast tomorrow that is sponsored by a family place. And don't tell them I said any of this, please.

That's right. You know what? Hey, we'll be right back and we'll talk about all the other news from the NHL this week that I could remember. Happened. Now a word from our sponsor, Better Help. Life can be overwhelming in many people. can get burned out, sometimes without even knowing it. If you're like me, when burnout happens,

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All right, we're back. We got some quick, some quick hits here, I guess. Reported this morning that Marty San Luis Extension, three years in Montreal. I don't think anyone on Earth is surprised by this one. The only question for a long time had been, did he want to come back? And he made it fairly clear that he did. So I had a few, like when they hired him. him. I remember a lot of people said, well, what's the worst that could happen? If he's a terrible

coach, then, you know, they finish last and hopefully win the draft lottery. And I said, well, the worst that can happen is he's just good enough that the team improves just enough that they give him an extension and then find out that he's not the best coach available. And, you know, it's the Dominic 2 Charm thing all over again. And I had some people today come back to me and go, okay, that's what you said was isn't this exactly what you said was going to happen and I'm not really sure that it is because I feel like he did a better than adequate job even though the record didn't say so yeah I I think he I think he actually did do enough to earn a full time shot and so I don't think this was the worst case I think this was I'm not I'm not willing to bet the

farm that he finishes his contract but in Montreal without them having to make a move but this feels like a reasonable a reasonable gamble. Yeah. I was looking at this, this morning when they announced and like all the underlying numbers are like not good.

Except he had under, they went like 14, 19 and 4 or whatever and they had a 101.1 PDO made me laugh. Like oh, they like actually got shooting and stuff like that. And we're still really bad, which tells you how bad they were even under Dusharb, because like, pretty much all the

numbers are an improvement from where they were under Dusharm, right? So I don't know. Like, I think with this, like, it's not about wins and losses. You don't care what the record is. You just want to see your, well, it's not that you don't care, I guess, but you just want to see your young players develop because they certainly weren't under Dusharm, right? And like, even if he just gets Cole Cawfield to be good, and that's the, you know, that's the, only guy he gets to be good. That's not nothing. Yeah, especially given that they've got a first overall pick coming in.

So if this guy's only skill is that he's the young offensive forward whisperer, that still is a pretty good fit. Yeah. And, you know, Nick Suzuki, of course, is already one of the best centers in the world, so they don't have to worry about that. but yeah, no, I like I shouldn't have said it it's not at all about wins and losses because of course it is. You don't want to finish fucking dead last

every single year. But also like I wonder what Yeah, well sure. But I do wonder what the organizational philosophy, like do they go to Brendan Gallagher and say, you know, it wouldn't be the worst thing.

if you, like, agreed to be traded. Josh Anderson, you know, wouldn't be the worst thing if you said, you know what, I'll go, I'll go to Arizona, I'll go to Carolina, I'll go to Carolina, whatever. You had somewhat, I have, I don't know if you saw this. They said maybe Christian Dvorak is already on the block, which again, makes perfect sense. Like, he's not going to be in their long-term plans. He's like, fine. But, boy, that was, that was a rough trade.

I didn't hate it at the time, but did not work out. And in hindsight also does really feel like a reactionary move to the offer sheet. Like, oh, yeah, we're going to take your first round pick that you just gave us, ha, ha, we're going to flip it into a player who's better than the guy you signed. Not a bad plan. Yeah, I think, I think on the whole, I would say Christian Dvorak currently is better than Yisperry-cocked in the Emmy. for sure. Okay. That having been said, long term, probably not so much.

But yeah, I just, I look at their roster. Like, how do you not, if you're the Canadians, go, you know what, Jeff Petrie? Petrie? See you. Like, obviously he has to agree to waive his no move, which it's weird that he has no move. But that makes a lot of sense to me of like you just go, anybody who's not nailed down. Carrie Price. want to go. Bye. See you.

And yeah, that is the big one, right? It's Carrie Price. And I think the rest of it all flows from that. And even if you call up Jeff Petrie, we wave your, he might say, well, what's Carrie Price doing? Because if Carrie Price is going to go, we're going to go through this year with, you know, with Jake Allen and whoever else. And Sam Montelbaum, maybe. Yeah. And just get to, you know, try to get to, to, to, to, Connor Bader land. Yeah, then you probably want to move out everyone. Whereas if Cary Price is like, no, I want to be in Montreal, I'm going to come back, I'm

going to be Cary Price next year. You know, whether you think he can or not, if that's his plan. But it has always sounded, well, I haven't heard anything that sounds like a door closing on him moving. I guess would be the way to phrase that. I haven't heard anything that made me think he's definitely going, but But typically with these sorts of guys by now we've heard like, no, no, he's not going anywhere. And you haven't really seemed to hear that.

Yeah. You know, I think, you know, Martin St. Louis today was talking about, like this morning was talking about, oh, development is so important to us, blah, blah, blah. And I think if that's what he's talking about the day he signs, I think that kind of signals they're going to, it's going to be all hands on off deck, I guess, right? like just to get everybody out of town and get the kids going. And, you know, then you try to strike that balance of, well, who, how many veterans should we have just to like make sure we're not like embarrassing ourselves? Yeah. And that we're not, you know, this is the thing where you don't want the Cole Coughfields and Nick Suzuki's and Shane Wright's or whoever's to be like so surrounded by losing and getting their heads kicked in every night. that when you then in a few years go,

okay, it's time to win that they're so like battle scarred by all that that they can't do it. But again, if you were ever going to be bad and kind of throw in the towel on a season, this is the year to do it. Because the next can't miss franchise guy is here. Yeah, and if you finish dead last,

you have a 4% chance of getting the first overall pick. So, what's not to go for? Yeah. I take that better than a 0% chance and finish 15 points out of the playoffs, but 19th overall. Do you know how many picks the Canadians have in the first three rounds this season? First four rounds. Let's do the first four rounds. No, I don't.

Ten. Yep. That's a lot. And they're probably not done. No. That is wild. Yeah. There's a few.

what, it's them, Seattle. I feel like there's one other team that has all the picks. Columbus has two in the top 15, I want to say. Yeah, that's in Buffalo also has got two high ones. Anyways, yeah, that's going to be fun. It's going to be fun, especially with the draft in Montreal. Lots of, lots of work for them to do. You know, now that I look at it, there's a condition on one of these picks that's still up in the air.

They get Edmonton's second round pick if Edmonton doesn't make the cup final. Okay. And if Edmonton does make the cup final, is that like the Oilers pick? They get next year's second round. Okay. All right. Next year's second round, oilers pick. But so the Canadians have a rooting interest in this one, it seems like.

Mm-hmm. There you go. Another thing that happened this week, Jason Spets are retired. Don't think anybody's really surprised. Not shocked, but yeah. And immediately took a... job in the Leafs front office. Did you see everybody being like, it feels like cap circumvention?

Good, circumvent the cap. Who cares? Yeah. It, yeah, I mean, if it turns out that he's making $5 million to be the assistant GM or something. Sure. But I don't think that's the case. Yeah.

And also, like Spets is like, are you saying that, oh, he was worth so much more than that last season. Was he really? Yeah, that's it. Exactly. So the thing with him with a bummer is. Last year. Yeah.

He finished like what, five points away from a thousand, which is kind of a bummer that he wasn't able to get there. Yeah, that I, man, I hope he signs like a, I don't know, whatever, a PT, a professional tryout contract. And like they just get him into nothing but empty net situations at various opportunities throughout the year. Yeah. Just like he keeps coming back.

playing one more game. He's the closer. He's like Rick Flair. He's like one more retirement game. Yeah. Yeah, I like it. But yeah, really good player for a really long time. But like, I remember several years ago now,

I wrote a thing of like, who's a guy who like could reasonably make the Hall of Fame? And this was maybe when he was like just getting to Dallas or whatever. And yeah, like, that was a guy. where I was like, maybe like two more 80-point seasons. And then he never actually had that, right? Like, couldn't really stay healthy for a lot of the time. But like, you know, you play 1,250 career games.

You get to almost 1,000 points. That's all a very good territory for me. Yeah. Really nice player. He's a real nice player. Lots of good stories where I am both from Toronto and at Ottawa. a good guy everyone seemed to like, good in the room, all those things. Real good player.

And apparently a pretty smart guy, so you wish him luck in his front office endeavors where he can learn from Kyle Dubus, which insert punchline here. But yeah. Man, like, you know, I guess the funny thing about this is that people, say his job is going to be something akin to. Here's how you convince every guy who's 35 years old to sign for the league minimum. Yeah. It's working so far. It would be very funny if like his first meeting, first day on the job like at the front office meeting, Kyle Dubus is like, all right, what other old idiot can we take to the cleaners on a contract? Let's take advantage of some

gullible old man and give him league men and Spets is just sitting there like, what? Wait a dude. I'm right here It just like doesn't occur to him That they're talking about Yeah He's like he's like Ryan Getslap right Yeah

We can get him for sure If Gennie Malkin's 35 Yeah Do it Yeah you know what Christ If they sign Malkin At age 35

To like a You know Two year deal Worth a total of $4 million or whatever That I'll say You know what They are circumventing

The cap somehow I don't know how they're doing it Yeah But But Ryan Have you heard about Have you heard about local tax rates? I haven't.

That means he's going to Arizona. Some places than they are in others. It's crazy. Yeah. Wow. Well, there you have it. That makes all the difference in the world to me. All right.

One more or two more pieces of news here. They're announcing the Mark Messier Leadership Award today. They're doing the slow rollout one a day of like the relatively minor awards for the next a few days, I guess. Let's see here. Messier Award today, Jack Adams Tomorrow, Masterton

on the third, Willio Rhee on the fourth, Frank Jay Selkie Award on the fifth, Lady Bing on the 6th, King Clancy on the 7th. Yeah, and then they're doing... The Lumped the Masterton and... Or the Jack Adams

and the Selke. Yeah. All the awards. So they're doing what, what is it, the Norris Fezina Hart. Is there another one? That might be it. And then the All-Stars. And they're doing like a one-hour show, but it's not like the Vegas Award show.

Yeah, it's just on TV. Which really worries me that we're now quietly killing that, which I would be unacceptable because that was one of my favorite nights of the year is watching NHL awkwardly try to be fun and entertaining. I will be furious if that's the case. Yeah.

So who you got for the Mark Messier Leadership Award? This is just a guy Mark Messier chooses. Yeah. I mean, the answer, of course, is I don't care. Well, sure. Because this award is dumb. But, yeah, of old guys, old captains who haven't won yet, there's old... That's not necessarily true.

So my answer immediately in my head was Patrice Bergeron, but then I remembered he won it last year. He won last year. Zadano Char had already won. He has already. Crosby won a while ago. 2010. Yes. I mean, it's very often somebody who is nearing the end of the road.

Yeah. But also, like, had to. Oh, Joe Thorntman has never. Well, I was just about to say that, like, you know, like I can see an argument where you go Getslap. Yes. Yeah, Gatslap's a good one. he, I would say arguably didn't,

didn't really, like, have the, this kind of season that you would want to give him a big award for. Because at some point, that just becomes the master. Luckily, this one isn't a big award. You know what I mean, though. Like, if you're, you know who this is a big award to? The one guy who votes on it. Yeah.

We had a three-year stretch. when Nick Folino, Derek Eglund, Wayne Simmons won this award. So I don't think Ryan Getslav has to have had that great a season. You know who would also be a decent pick? Wouldn't shock me is Jason Spetsa. Spetsa, you know who's a guy that it just occurred to me?

I think this would be an awesome choice. Like, if we're going to do this, Joe Pavelski. Yes, that's another very... Old guy, leadership. he's a center. The only thing with him is... Not really this year anymore, but...

Getslaff and Spetz are leaving, so it's kind of the last chance on them. Also, previous winners have included Matzendine, Jerome McGinla, Mark Giordano. I'm sensing a pro-bald bias by Mark Messier here. Hey!

Feel like he's looking out for his own guys. So that's another Mark... Good news for Brian Getslap. And it's bad news for Duncan Keith, who's another guy I can see him talking. himself into Duncan Keith. Look, look how far the Oilers got after they got Duncan Keith.

You think that's coincidence? Parentheses, yes, I do. Mark Messier doesn't. That's for sure. Yeah. So we'll find out at 7 p.m. tonight, who's the winner of the prestigious. I will be glued to my screen to find out. So I'm on the Wikipedia page for this, right?

And did you remember that this was a monthly award in the 2006-07 season? No, I'm reminded of that every time I look at the Wikipedia page and see that. This is the first time I've ever done it. I'm not a sicko like you just pulling. You know what? It's been a month. I better go look at the Mark Messier Leadership Award Wikipedia page again. That's Sean at home.

Correct. He has like a calendar reminder. But yeah, Brent, this is how long ago, this is how long ago the award was created. Brendan Shanahan. Scott Niedermeyer, these are the monthly winners. Sidney Crosby, Vinnie La Cavillier, Roberto Luongo, and then the season winner for 0607 was Chris Chelios. Wow.

I love the idea that they had this as a monthly award. They're like, you were just great leadership this month. You absolutely. And that even the NHL was like, you know what? No, this is too much. We do not need this. Yeah. Yeah, I don't.

It's so funny to me because apart from La Cavilliers and Crosby, those monthly award winners are like, here's a guy who's friends with Mark Matzian. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it's just, I'm just so glad the NHL has an award to recognize good guys. Like that's, that's what they should have their own hour-long award show. Just all of the good guys. Here's the nicies, yeah. Nisies.

Here's all the nice guys. in the league. We love them so much. We give them all beautiful kisses. Speaking of stupid awards. The GM of the Year award. Yeah, this is the last thing we have on the list here for the day. Which I have not seen anything about, but I guess that's not, because this is the one award that they vote on after the second round. Yes. Because of course, we can just, we know who the best players are after the regular season, but with the GM, we just have to get the, But, you know, there's a lot of trading, a lot of transactions that go on during the first month of the playoffs.

So, I would assume the finalists are being announced soon. Yeah, I would think so as well. So, but I'll say this. So you, when we talked about this last night, you said to me, they only ever give it to people who made the conference final. Mostly. That's mostly true. It's happened three times that someone who didn't make the conference final won it. Do you remember who those guys are?

I don't, but I know that I was looking at it yesterday and like Bill Zito was one of them last year. He was a finalist, yeah. A finalist. Oh, you're talking somebody to win it. Yes. Three guys, winners. No, I don't remember. Don Maloney in 2010.

And I said, oh, sure, that's when Arizona went to the conference. That's like a couple of years before Arizona went to the conference final. Doug Armstrong in 2012 and Bob Murray in 2014. Okay. So since then, it's been... But, yeah, Lou Lamarillo, Lou Lamarillo, Don Sweeney, George McPhee, David Poil, Jim Rutherford, Steve Eiserman.

Yeah. Those are all guys who had really good teams. Two years ago, for example, like the three finalists were Lamarillo, Julian Breezebaugh and Jim Nill, three guys who went to the final four? Who was the other final? Who was the Western finalist that year who got snubbed?

Because that's the fun part for me, is like out of the final four, who is going to be the one who gets, gets, and it's probably Jeff, it's probably, uh, Chris Drury,

right? Because he's the new guy. Yeah, he didn't really do. Jeff Gordon's. Well, you know what? His fingerprints are really all over this team.

He made the big trades at the deadline. I, you know what? I wouldn't be surprised at all if Chris Drury as a finalist. I just think that, uh, like Breezebaugh should, you know,

he's going to win a, as a shot. to win a third cup. You got to put him on there. Joe Sackick, I think, has never been nominated or never been a finalist, so I feel like he would be an excellent pick. And my pick to win the whole thing is Ken Holland. I mean, this is the GMs giving the award. Of course, they're going to give it to the guy who did all the GM things and had it actually work, you know, brought in a leader, assigned a free agent, did all this stuff, and got a lot of criticism for it,

which by voting for him, they can now go, ha-ha, see, this guy. Yeah, it's funny. So on the Puck Soup mailbag that we're going to do on the Patreon in a minute, an Oilers fan last night was like, you know, Mike Smith's been pretty good. So doesn't it feel like,

he actually should be a source of praise for Ken Holland because they could have brought back at. The goal tending. Yeah. And again, they gave it to Lou Lamarillo twice in a row. So clearly, and before that it was Don Sweetie, but before that it was George McPhee and David Poil. So you're talking lifers, Jim Rutherford the year before that. They love giving this to lifers. And Ken Holland would just be such a magnificent middle figure.

Hey, all you analytics nerds who said that the Oilers weren't going to be good. Ha ha, Ken Holland knows a thing or two about winning. Yeah, and he also fired the coach. That is true. Immediately. But the reason I brought that up, of course, is because I think that post was posted one second before puck drop from game one where Mike Smith was unbelievable. But yeah, like, I guess my thing is like they played it.

they desperately tried to upgrade the goal tending and didn't and then they were like let's give this 40 year old two years how's that sound that sounds great yep i guess we'll see um but yeah no like i i'm not gonna be surprised at i think if if we're going just from the final three here's who you leave out freeze block even as he's going for his third cup you think and he hasn't obviously he hasn't won it yet and he's been aggressive at trade deadlines and... Here's my reasoning, though. He lost all his good players in the regular season,

and they got worse. Right? Like, by the standings, they were worse. Yeah. Right? So I can totally see a world where he's the one guy, but, like, Sackick needs the recognition at some point. Yeah, Sackick should be.

Sackick is the guy who probably should win it. Should win it, yes. Well, you bring in a guy like Darren Helm. Exactly. Did it work? And off and running. Yeah, I think it did. So, yeah, it'll be interesting just to see who they pick just because it's always interesting to see who they pick.

But will they get it right? Probably not. They never, they, it's very rare. Well, I mean, you can't even get this award right. Like, how do you, what is the GM of the year? Like, who made the best moves? That year or whose team is? Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah. The guy who does the things. That's so good. Yeah. The best guy at being things. Yeah. All right.

So it's a pretty clear award. Everybody is here. Sean, why don't you say what you have to plug? I've got a bunch of stuff on the athletic this week. I wrote my one and only positive column on Monday about the playoffs being good. I've got my thing today where I look at each of the four teams that left. And I go, if we're going to be at the copycat league, which we always, hear that the NHL is.

What are we actually, what do we hope we learn and what do we hope we don't learn from these teams? And I think maybe tomorrow, maybe Friday, I'll have like my all-playoff bust roster where we can shake our heads disapprovingly at 20 or so guys who didn't play very well in the playoffs. Wow. Small sample size, baby. I wouldn't want to get involved in that kind of finger pointing, but I get it.

No, no. For me, obviously, eP.rinkside.com, and if you sign up for an annual subscription, they will add another three months on at the end of your year. So that's a nice little bonus just for you. If you use the code, I love EP, all one word, all capital letters. That'll get you in the door. And then, of course, you're going to want to sign up for the Pucksu Patreon where, you know, we're always doing little contents. earlier this week, no, end of last week actually. Me, Sean, and a special guest named Greg Wyshinsky from ESPN,

we got together and we talked about some big hits from the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s that most of which I had never seen, and we talked about, like I watched them live for the first time ever. And then we talked about how many games they would be suspended. if they did the exact same hit here in 2020. That was very fun and people very much enjoyed hearing somebody like see the Pavalbury on Shane Shirley hit for the very first time. And yeah, the reactions went very much like you would, like you would expect them to go.

So the best part was, I can't, I think it was the Mark Messier hit on Mike Madano was the first, was the first one we watched. And I pressed play and the most insane shot, like headshot I'd ever seen happened one second into the video. It was banana. So it only got better from there, I would say. So if you want to check that out, that's patreon.com slash puck soup. And thank you for listening.

Thank you for your support. As always, we'll talk to you next week. Bye, bye. Bye-bye.