Puck Soup - Trade Deadline Gambles

Episode Date: February 20, 2020

The boys break down what has happened and gamble on what will happen at the NHL trade deadline. Plus a raging debate about Bruce Boudreau's postseason prowess, Mike Bloomberg as enhancement talent, the Leafs panic, Air Force Stadium Series problems, what the Raleigh game looks like, Player Safety criticism, and when to and when not to "complain to the manager" for bad service.

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of Hockey and Nonsense. I'm Greg Wachinsky of ESPN. You're home for cymbulcast coverage of the TSN trade deadline maybe. Oh, yeah? Ryan Lambert does this podcast.

Have fun. Sean McAnew, The Athletic. And you're in Puck Soup. Now, as you know, boys, all politics are sports now. You watch CNN. It's like watching, I don't know, like the NFL pregame show with the way they treat the future of, well, mine and Ryan's great nation. Can't speak to your nation. And so last night I was watching the Democratic debate, and I swear to God we're not going to get too.

deep into politics here on this dumb podcast. But I was struck by the performance of Michael Bloomberg. Because it occurred to me that Michael Bloomberg, because here's the thing, he's an extraordinarily rich guy, as Ryan knows, and he gives a lot of money to other candidates to try to get them into office. So, like, he, like, I think I saw that he gave money to, like, 23 House candidates that were women and 15 of them won or some such. So he throws his money around to help the Democratic Party.

Well, unless he doesn't, in which case, you know, funding Republican challengers to blue seats in the, yeah. So, I, he was so terrible in that debate, like, epically bad, like, almost like you feel like he was there to make everyone else look better. And, and that's my theory. My theory is that he is the 1A entry in a horse race who was just there to sprint as fast as he can to make the other horses run faster, but has no design. on winning, or to put it in terms of this podcast, he's enhancement talent. He's the Brooklyn Brawler. Like, he's just there to allow Elizabeth Warren to, like, find her footing again and just fucking drag him for three hours or whatever those.

Yeah, I don't know that you spend, like, a billion dollars to go on stage and get your absolute ass handed to you. But everybody, but Ryan, everybody has hobbies and this guy, I've read it, a billion dollars to him is like buying a burrito for me, I believe, was the proxy or whatever. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, he, I think, I think my theory would be that he is a guy who, to put it in boxing parlance, hasn't fought anybody ever. He's just had a bunch of tomato cans, as they call it. Yeah. And then, fucking Mike Tyson stepped between the ropes and Buster Douglas and Avanderholi Field. And they just fucking wailed on him for two hours. Like, who on stage is Buster Douglas in this one?

Is that Klobuchar? Yeah. Oh, of course it is. Yeah. No real long-term talent there, but, you know. But you could get one good shot in. Yeah. Oh, boy, she hates Mayor Pete, which, how endearing.

I think your point is good because I believe, to put it in yet another sports parallel, it reminds me of like a team coming off a four-day layoff playing a team. coming that played the night before. Like the team that played the night before is completely, you know, they got their legs under them, they're ready to go, they just played a fucking brutal overtime game. And the four-day off one's like, la-di-da-da-da, I'm just going to float in here and see what's going on. Yeah, this is the bi-week.

This is the, like, bi-week rangers stepping in. Fucking punching the mouth. Fucking Bruins. Three-nothing in the first six minutes and they pull the goalie. Yeah, brutal. He did really bad, but it doesn't matter because he's going to spend an another $600 million and probably get to a brokered convention and be the like, you know, not, thankfully it's not Bernie candidate that all the Democrats rally around.

Let's be quite honest. His commercials are incredible. They're incredible. They're like movie trailers. They're so good. And much like movie trailers, they have no basis in fucking reality. You know, like, he's like, oh, I love Obama. And Joe Biden's like, fucking what?

the trailer for Suicide Squad was completely exactly like the movie was a lighthearted romp with awesome needle drops and non-stop comedy so trailers ever lie Sean do you get Bloomberg ads in Canada no unless we're watching a

American channel that is the only fucking market he hasn't gotten into I guess yeah we've been lucky enough to avoid that What are political ads in Canada? What do they look like? Is it like, who's the most Canadian of them all? Is that kind of the vibe? I mean, unfortunately, they're looking more and more like American ones because we,

sorry. Our right wing up here has watched what's happening down there and they're learning what works and starting to kind of parrot it. But it's, I can just tell you as a Canadian, your election cycle is completely insane to us. Like, we, we, like, we, like, they call an election and the election is like a month later and we had that's the campaign and this thing where you guys spend like a year and a half on it is insane and and very strange to us that was the truest thing that Bloomberg said last night was when they were asking them why haven't you

released your tax journey he says like I've been at this for 10 weeks everybody up here's been doing this for two years it's exactly true it's crazy uh it's a horrible cycle and by the way, you know, not good for any candidate because, you know, what he's trying to do, which is to kind of do a run-in during the match, to use yet another parallel, is the smartest way to go because by now we're all six of these. We're all sick of these fuckers. He's not even doing the run-in. The wrestling thing is that he's the guy who, like, comes into the Royal Rumble and then just stands outside the ring because he doesn't, you realize he technically doesn't have to go in? He's attacking a guy after he wins the championship to set up,

the next feud. Like, that's, that's really what it is. I mean, he's trying to siphon like support from Biden and Klobuchar and Buttigieg and probably even Warren. Um, and it's gonna work for a little while, but I, I don't know how long. Like, he's, the problem is he has the money to stay in it until it's over, over and not until he's like mathematically eliminated. King, he's, his feet never touched the ground. Yeah. He's been still in the match. him. Wait, Michael Cole or Bloomberg? Bloomberg. Michael Cole is fine. Michael Cole is fine. A little bit of one. Yeah, that's close. It's close. All right. From one disaster to another, the Leafs.

Finally, we get to talk about the Leafs on this podcast. Yeah, I know for once. I, listen, I mentioned this the other day on the Safe Haven of Vancouver Radio. But like, I understand that now they're outside of the playoff spot, you know, because it's, Florida one or whatever, but like, fucking they're going to be, first of all, I think they're going to be fine. And then second of all, like, fucking, they've been missing their best defensemen since the beginning of January. Yeah. And the margins on this team to survive that are, are very, very slim. So, yeah, I don't know what's going to happen with Morgan Riley.

I mean, I assume he comes back at some point, but like, it's pretty easy to diagnose this thing. One, they've never really been good defensively, and they lose their best defensemen. Two, they've never been really good defensively. Freddie Anderson used to paper over it for two years. Now he sucks, for some reason this year. And they're going to be fine. Yeah, this is their real problem. They had no backup plan in net.

That's it. If Freddie Anderson wasn't good this year, they were going to really struggle. And he's been bad. So, right. Which is true of most teams. A lot of teams, yeah. But, like, I think, you know, the, The gap between Anderson and, you know, it started out as Hutchinson and now it's somebody else, like, sizable.

And, you know, Anderson was always, he was never like a great goalie. He was always, he was always, he's had his moments of being one of the better goleys in the league for sure. He's, he's been a solid, like, like, second tier. Yes, he's like a great one A if you have a one B. but if he's your number one, I don't know. And he has not been good pretty much all of this year. And it's been stretching back into last year. You know, that's the other thing.

You go back, it's, you know, he didn't finish last year very well either, including the playoffs. So I, yeah, I mean, I kind of, I hear what Greg is saying, but I think that this is a bigger issue than that. because first of all, yeah, they're missing Morgan Riley. Morgan Riley is a good player, but a lot of teams miss good players and still find ways to stay in the playoff race. And also Morgan Riley wasn't having a great year before he got hurt. And part of that was due to injuries he was playing through. But, you know, Morgan Riley is a real good player. Morgan Riley isn't Nicholas Littstrom.

You're taking him out of the lineup shouldn't completely torpedo what you're doing. And, you know, you say, well, they've never been good defensively. Yeah, that's a big part of the problem. There are a lot of the same issues that were under Mike Babcock are showing up again in the last. And this, by the way, is this isn't just overreacting to the Pittsburgh game, the Buffalo game. This is the last 20 games or so. They've not been very good. under Sheldon Keefe. And that was the big card that they played to try to fix some of these issues.

And it paid off for a little while, but recently it hasn't so much. So I mean, my, I guess, I guess what I would take issue with of you saying, Greg, is when you say, you know, hey, they're going to be fine. Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with that. For, for them in Florida, it's a real race to the bottom. Like, they're, they're really, the only thing that they could possibly do is, to like really break this two-way race with Florida here is to end up being as bad as Montreal. And I don't think it's out of the question. So. Yeah.

And that's for either team. I'm not saying just Toronto could completely drop off a cliff if the goaltending doesn't improve. Florida is just as like they've, every time you think they've gotten the goaltending sorted out, Bavrovsky goes up and gives it, you know, five on 27. And you're like, oh, I guess we're back where we fucking started. So, you know, I think everybody is maybe a little surprised that they're not head and shoulders better than Florida or, you know, most of the Metro division, I guess. But if I had said at the beginning of the season, you know, Florida and the Leafs are going to be competing heavily for the third place in the Atlantic, everybody would be like, well, it sounds right. Yeah, it sounds right, but it's the fact.

And if people aren't following the race and you're wondering why. we're not talking about the wild card in that. The way it works now, there's basically six teams in the metro fighting for five spots, and it looks like they're going to get both the wild card. So for the Leafs in Florida, it's kind of third place in the Atlantic or nothing. Now, that could change. It's close enough that, you know, one team really going on a run, but it looks like a two-team race. And two-team races are dangerous because you can play really

well in a two-team race, and the other team just goes crazy and you're done. You know, that's, that makes it a little bit, you know, little bit scary, even if you do think they can turn it around. There's no guarantee. Now, they play Florida twice. Uh, so there's, there's big points, uh, available there, obviously that could end up swinging things. But, you know, the other piece of this, and part of the reason why this is, you know, this, this story is, is consuming so much oxygen in the hockey world, not just because, yeah, obviously it's Toronto. Obviously, every time they do anything, it's a big deal. But there's lots of teams on the playoff bubble. And there's lots of,

of teams that if they don't make the playoffs are going to be disappointed. If Toronto doesn't make the playoffs this year, it's a disaster. It's a disaster. Absolutely. It's a disaster. This is an absolute. This is a team. You know, I've spent years, you know, kicking the dead horse of the Edmonton Oilers and the

sabers and going, you've got your star player in their prime and you're going to miss the playoffs. The Leafs were supposed to be a good team that was geared up to really take a swing at a cup over the next three, four, five years. if for them to miss the playoffs would just be it would be the sort of disaster that maybe in some markets you can you can shrug off and say we believe in the process we're going to stick to the plan if it happens in Toronto the pressure to do something dumb in response to it is going to be immense and so this this may not just be you know

it's it's this isn't just the lightning missing the playoffs by one point a few years ago and recovering. This has the potential at least to be something that's a disaster that ripples into the future because the pressure to panic and try to overcorrect in certain areas is going to be very strong. They better make it. Sure. Because Tampa only has two writers and their radio station talks about the Bucks. And in Toronto you have a large swath of the media with their knives out ready to make their friend Mark Hunter happy and ready to avenge the reputation of Mike Babcock. And so, yeah, if they did miss, it's going to be a fucking disaster.

Like, if I was Kyle Dubus, I would just leave for the jungles of Vietnam for like three months. I mean, remember where we were when we started this season, it was where you looked at the Leafs and you said, they better not lose in the first round again. Because if they do, I mean, at the time Babcock was going to get fired, he's already gone. But, you know, all this other stuff. They can't lose in the first round again. They got to at least win a round. And now they might not even get the chance to do that. I will say this, by the way, about the leaves.

One and four in the shootout. Two of those results flip, we're not having this conversation, right? Like, you know, they're up, they're up two points on Florida. We're probably still having the conversation just by the virtue of how it's lost recently. And here's the other thing. Well, it looks different, though. Yeah, exactly. Just if, to talk about small margins and.

And, you know, this, I'll just throw it out there because I know if, let's say the Leafs miss the playoffs by one point, everybody's going to point to the backup goalie. And rightfully so. They're going to go, you know, Michael Hutchinson gave you basically nothing for eight or ten games or whatever. You went and got Jack Campbell. He played well, but it was too late. You miss those points. Can we also point out that apparently, according to reports, I don't know for sure if this is true, but according to reports, when the Leafs got thumped by the Penguins back in November, remember, that's when they made the decision to fire Mike Babcock, but they didn't want to do it on

Hall of Fame Day. So they gave him one more game, the game in Vegas, and then they lost that. And they lost that game in regulation. And then they bring in Sheldon Keith and immediately go on a winning streak. If they missed the playoffs by one point, I think it's going to be fair to ask about the timing of the coaching change and say, like, did waiting one game potentially spell that point that could be the difference? Because you were trying to be nice and let the PR machine have a moment.

or whatever else, I think that's going to be a fair question to ask. So, you know, there's just, there's going to be a ton of stuff. And man, you give Toronto all of April and May to, to mull this stuff over. There's,

there's going to be a lot of crazy. And if you're a Leafs fan, it's going to suck. And if you're one of the many, many fans out there, I know who think it's awesome when things are bad in Toronto, you're going to be getting your popcorn

and probably, Merry Christmas. Probably think of this is fantastic. It's going to be, yeah, it's going to be awesome for you. Right up until the Leafs win the lottery, and then everybody forces their mind. Oh, wait, but they can't.

They don't have, they traded the pick from Marlowe. It's top ten protected, though. Oh, it's top ten protected? Oh, yeah. They will, they did. And at the time, everyone kind of rolled their eyes, like, yeah, if that pick's going to be in the top ten. But here we are. Well, good.

At least they won't be the sharks. Bruce Boudreau got fired since we last did the show. That's true. And it was one of those weird-ass timing things where at the beginning of January, the Wild were like one, five, and one. And they lost a bunch of games at home. And you're like, okay, if it's going to happen, it'll probably happen now. Then it didn't. And then, like, Boudreau gets him on an 11-game heater to get him into this dumb-ass wildcard race in the Western Conference.

And then they fucking turf him after a home loss. So, like, who knows? But it was going to happen anyway. I mean, expiring contract wasn't Bill Geren's. hire. I mean, he obviously, Doug Waite can't coach the team if Bruce Boudreau still there. And, uh, and so and support. Who has been teammates with Bill Guerin five different times between the NHL and international, you're telling me this guy's, the guy who happens to have been your GM's

teammate year after year is just happens to be the best guy available. He might be. Yeah. Well, John Hines is off the market. So they can't hire. That's a good point. That is a good point. Um, but so no, I mean, it's, I mean, it's, I, I mean, listen, Billy's going to make a nepotism higher of some way, shape, or form, right? Like, it's going to be. I mean, what, yeah, it's going to be somebody he played with or somebody he played for, he played for Galant and, and, and, and I with the Islanders. So perhaps that's the fit.

Uh, somebody from fucking Pittsburgh, you know, Mike Yo or some shit. Like, it's good, well, it can't be Mike Yo in Minnesota and I think about it. Um, it's somebody of that nature. Yeah. So, like, you know, it'll be that. But like, the, Did you guys think the, like, do they do the Boudreau thing because they're worried about how difficult it's going to be if, God forbid, they made the playoffs and God forbid they did

anything in the playoffs? Yeah, no, I made that joke where it's like, you know, you fire Bruce Boudreau, you know, granted, again, they lost and they, in that game, and they, um, blew a lead against a not good team and all that kind of stuff. But there were very few coaches in the world who are better. than Bruce Boudreau. And so the thing that he was bringing to the table was that that team was way better than it should have been. And it was an impediment to what they should, Bill Garen should be trying to do with that team, which is driving them into the fucking ground. Like, they should

be horrible. And so, like, Bruce Boudreau is an impediment to that. And if he's going to cost a shitload of money and, you know, like, you're trying to get worse in the next couple of months so you can really solidify your draft position and that kind of thing. And you're not going to bring them back anyway. Then, yeah, fire him. Like, I get it from that point of view, but also, like, you know, whoever hires Bruce Boudreau two months from now is going to end up looking really fucking good next season. Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. Sean, one thing. I agree with you that he's a great coach. I wonder what the deal is this time, though, because he's a bit older. I think I looked it up in like something like 10 of the last 11 guys that have been hired are all, you know, under the age of, I think maybe like 55 or 60. Like, do you think he, do you think it happens as quickly as it's happened in the past for Bruce where he gets hired? Because there's also a number of coaches on the market that are pretty sexy this time too, as far as like lauolette and Galant and Babcock if he, you know, goes on the PR tour and, you know, does Mayacolpa's all over Canadian media. There's some guys out there that are interesting.

I would prefer Bruce Boudreau over all of those guys. Yeah, I might take Galant over him, but he would be very high on my list. Especially if I had a team that was, you know, that I felt was ready to contend. You know, if it's a rebuild, maybe he's not my guy, but if I've got a team that I want to see go from being third place to first place, because that's what he does. You know who would be a perfect team to hire him is the Calgary Flames. They're kind of fumbling along and they had their chance a couple of years ago and they hire Glenn Gulletson instead because he could climb a mountain or whatever the fuck the reason was. Is it metaphorical?

No, like literally, wasn't that the thing? There was a thing. Took him up a mountain and was like, you're the coach when they got to the top or whatever. You're the coach now, dog. Yeah. Really, really cool stuff. But yeah, like there's a bunch of teams like that where it's like, you know, they're maybe not just a coach away, but getting the coach really gets them over the top. You know, another team could probably use them.

The Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah. I was going to say that job's not open, but give it another few weeks, yeah. You know, and if we're throwing – The Leaf's issue is winning in the playoffs, though. That's the thing about Bruce that we don't talk about is that like – But we don't talk about it because he doesn't forget how to coach in game sevens. You know, the guy's got like a thousand NHL games on his record.

I'll look at that over a couple of game seven losses. Over an inability to win in the playoffs and having lost game sevens. Great, how many? Oh, my God. What? What, what? Let me hear your defense of Bruce Boudreau's playoff record where you literally had guys in the ducks saying that his. energy behind the bench and it was a cause for them to fucking freak out late in series.

Go ahead. If his energy behind the bench was a cause for them to lose those series, then the Ducks were never going to win anything. Every team that got rid of him got worse. Explain, okay, explain to me how he's never played, he's never coached a fucking conference final, I don't think, has he? Did he get there with the Ducks once? I don't know, maybe. Probably not. No, he's...

His record in the playoffs is not great. But again, like, what's the coaching strategy to tell the capitals to get 50 shots a game and maybe get a couple of them past Yaroslav Halak? Like at some point, is that a coaching thing? No, it's not. And I don't know. I mean, this, this, his coaching record in his career, he's, he's, I'm just looking at it. He's 43 and 47. So he's lost four more games and he's.

he's, then he's won. And that's, yeah, that's, that's not great. You would expect better than that. He's certainly got a much higher percentage in the regular season. He's been an unsuccessful postseason coach. Like, that's, it's, there's no way you can. He's lost four game sevens. You know, if you flip just one of those, at least four.

Why are they getting to game seven? It's not, it's not as if his team is constantly rallying in these series. Like, I don't know, man. Like, we could, we could, we could, I love the guy. I think he's a really good coach. But there's no debating the fact. What the fuck? I think he's a really good.

a coach. I've talked to him many times. I think he's great. But the idea that we're going to create our own set of facts when they clearly point to him not having success in the postseason is insane. I think that him not having success in the postseason, is everybody else's fault. No, no, I would say that it is less important than you are making it out to be. Yeah, he has coached almost 1,000 NHL games in the regular season. He has coached 90 in the playoffs. I I will lean to that thousand game sample size over a 90 game sample size where, you know what, and it's the same thing with players in the playoffs who have different sets of results in much smaller samples.

Is the playoffs different? Yeah, there are some different things in the playoffs, especially from a coach's perspective. Yeah, for sure. Because it's better teams and you're preparing for one team the entire series. So, yeah, it is. But it doesn't become a completely different sport. And if you've got two wildly disparate set of results between the regular season and a much, much smaller sample of the playoffs, I think it's way too tempting to dive into the narratives and start assigning cause and effect on that versus to say, you know what, maybe maybe one or two games, which could mean one or two bounces goes a different way. And we've got a whole different set of stories to tell.

Well, Alex Ovechkin was a huge fucking loser who could never win anything until he won a fucking Stanley Cup. and now the Toronto media is like, you've got to look at what Alex Ovechkin is doing to see what's wrong with the Leafs. Okay. The better proxy is Barry Trots. Like, if you want to make the proxy between Judro and somebody who sucked before he won,

it would be Trots. Yeah. Right? Like, that's the guy. Could be. I mean, it didn't change the fact that Trots had his problems in the postseason. Yeah, well, again, like, look at how bad those national teams that he kept making the playoffs with were.

90 games is a pretty stout sample. and the playoffs do become a different animal in some ways. And coaches do have to make adjustments, and they do have to manage energy, and they do have to do different things in the postseason than they do in the regular season. And motherfuckers never won in the postseason. Like, that's a fact.

Wilde should hire Mike Babcock, then. He's won in the postseason. Well, with Nick Lidstrom. Oh, okay. So sometimes it matters who you have on your roster, but other times it doesn't. I'm sorry. Got it.

Have I stand for Mike Babcock on this podcast for a long time? Is that a thing that's happened? No, but... Lafayette. Yeah, another guy. Oh, yeah, he got the cup final with Chris Pronger. And then he got there again with the Predators. Yeah, with a fucking elite roster on the Predators.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, but he also has won a few playoff rounds, too. Well, again, he had Chris Pronger. Yeah. Bruchero's won one in his last five trips. Yeah, but two of those were with wild teams that nobody thought were. Wild, yeah, exactly. Again, you're just got to look at how good those teams are going,

or well, how good the ducks have been since they turf Boudreau. The teams are great until they're not, which just happens to be when they get to the playoffs under Bruce Boudreau. No, they're not great. That's the point. That's the whole fucking point. Those teams... Okay, so they're not great.

He makes them great, but then they don't. then they turn back into a pumpkin when it hits midnight in the playoffs? What is this nonsense? What are you talking? What? He gets them to the postseason. They have a great record. Go Bruce Bidreau.

Best coach ever. Amazing guy turns shit into gold. They get to the playoffs. It turns to shit again. Yeah, I guess what's a better way to look at this? An 82 game sample with those teams are a seven game sample. That is a tricky one. Or a 90 game postseason sample.

Yeah. Over what, 15 years, 10 years? I don't know, man. This is a real bizarre hill you guys decided to camp out on a die. I'm looking at his game seven numbers here. Yeah, isn't his game seven save percentage like 880 or something like that? You should have told those goals. You can go through all his game seven's losses and basically five on five,

his teams in the games that they lose are shooting 3%, 5%, 0% in some cases. What's his record in games? I guess he needs. to write score more on the whiteboard or something. What's his record in game six? What's his record in game six? Are all the Cs... I don't have the capitals and... Ducks have rallied to make it a game seven?

Or is he... Are teams losing game six and then get to game seven? I don't know, man. I think if your team needs the coach to give you energy... Two shots to close out a series and can't? Or does that kind of take away the coin flip fucking theory here? If his teams can't close out series? I'm sorry.

I've covered the guy with... So now he's not just bad in the playoffs. He's bad in the second half of the playoffs. I mean, how small do you want to narrow it down to a guy who's been one of the best coaches in the league in terms of his record for the last decade plus? Right. And if you flip a coin two times in a row, there's still a pretty good fucking chance that's going to come up heads both times.

There it is. Well, there you go. I have to remember this one for the next time we drag Dave Poil for not actually having won anything. I don't understand this, man. Like, like, so... Dave Poyle is the guy who builds the roster. Yeah, he builds the team. He doesn't have to just get the team.

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B-L-A-C-K-T-U-X.com and enjoy 10% off with code puck, P-U-C-K. That's the blacktucks.com, code puck for 10% off your purchase. And folks, knowing the price of tuxedos, 10% ain't nothing. The black tucks, formal wear for the moment, did not wear a tuxedo. Did not even wear a suit to the outdoor game at Air Force. Can I cut in here? We have some breaking news. Johnny Godreau has removed Calgary Flames from his Twitter profile.

What does this mean? Oh, hell yeah. Let's go. Oh, yeah. That's it. Gotta love it. They're trading him for Taylor Hall as we speak. That's my theory. That was our theory on the podcast, right?

That they were going to flip the thing? They were going to do that? That they were going to decide Johnny Godro is the problem. Yeah, that's right. I mean, eventually he'll go to the Flyers, right? That's the spot. That's the play. It seems like.

When I covered the Frozen Four that BC played in in Philadelphia, there was just the entire local media that was there like, now you're from around here? You're from right across the river in New Jersey? And he was like, yeah, I do remember that. And they were like, pretty cool. Just something to think about. Okay.

I love it. All right. Outdoor game at Air Force. Did any of you guys watch it? No, of course not. I saw bits and pieces of it. But I did not go out of my way to watch the whole thing. Not trying to watch King's game, folks.

Boring game, got good in the third. But the thing that people, of course, were talking about after this was the traffic mess. I talked to people between the second and third period that were just arriving, despite having left their houses at like three in the afternoon for a six o'clock puck drop. It was a disaster that got only worse when, unfortunately, somebody lost their life as a pedestrian. after the game. There's only two gates in and out of Air Force. They had to close one of the gates. So now people were stuck in the parking lots for like two and a half hours after the game.

It seems like it's an Air Force problem and not an HL problem. But let's say you come in between the second and third period for a game that you feel like you left at a reasonable time to get to. There are extenuating circumstances, construction, whatever. Do you ask for a refund? Or is that not in your character? if it was as bad as everybody was saying it was just in terms of not only you know the parking thing but like people were saying the NHL sold like you know the $400 seats that are too low to really see the ice at all and that kind of stuff I can see

where people want to see the manager about that I don't I don't necessarily feel particularly because like you go to an NHL outdoor game and you buy seats down low, you're going to kind of really take your chances with being able to see the ice and that sort of thing. But yeah, with the parking thing, like, if I show up, you know, I leave the house at 3 o'clock and I have, you know, $100 seats way up high

or that kind of thing. And they're like, oh, yeah, it's the third period, by the way. Yeah, I absolutely ask for a fucking refund. What about you, Sean? Are you a refund guy? I'm not a refund guy, Yeah, no, I should say that too. I'm not one to make that demand usually.

Yeah, but this seems like a bit of an extreme case. I get why people are frustrated. And yeah, I mean, some of the stories coming out of it were pretty ridiculous. So regardless of whose fault it is, I mean, ultimately, it's the NHL's event. Yeah, I just can't believe the organization behind the F-35 isn't really. Why is the world split up into people that would ask for the refund and those who wouldn't? Because I'm kind of with you. Now, the restaurant thing is more of a specific thing where if they really fuck up my dish, there's always a part of me that feels like they're going to like spit in it or whatever.

Well, there's that. My thing with it usually, I would have to get remarkably bad service to not tip at least 20%. it's just one of those things of like, you know, a lot of times when you have a problem with something, it is a low wage worker who you're taking it out on or if you ask to talk to the manager, who the manager takes it out on, right? And so to make their life worse because like my fucking taco from Taco Bell wasn't good, I have the buck 50, you know what I mean? Right, right.

conversation with someone and they thought I was crazy, but I stand by it, where I said that, and it happens all the time these days, anytime you're asked to rate something, like, you know, these days you're always getting a card or an email or something. Like, please let us know how we did. Anytime you are rating a person, five stars. Every time, unless the person has screwed up so badly that you want them fired, in which case, you give them zero. But if you, like, you, you, uh, you, I really believe if you're sitting, if you ever are sitting there, like, kind of going back and forth between like three stars and three and a half on some customer service rep or your waiter or your Uber, like whatever, you're a bad person. Like you legitimately are a bad person. It's five right down the line. If you're sitting there going like, I'd go three and a half, but I don't see like a three and a half. So I'm just going to go three because I think they could have done. But you're a bad person. Five out of five every time, unless the person has screwed up so badly you want them fired.

And not only like you want the, like, they would have to screw up to the point of, you know, I got sick. Or like, I got sick from it. Or like the Uber driver almost gets into an accident at some point. Yeah. Like if even almost like, if the guy gets in an accident because he's like looking at his phone while he's driving and the car flips over, fair enough. Give him a fucking one star review. That's fine. In my last dying breath, I just reach up and tap the one star on my phone.

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, like if you're in a fast and the furious style car accident where it just flips over nine times and falls off a cliff or whatever, I would say well within your rights. But if you get to your destination safely. If you get to your destination safely, it's five stars every time. Now I'm just thinking of Vin Diesel as an Uber driver. Greg. Oh, hey, yeah, that's me. Okay.

Yeah, you wouldn't give anything less than five stars to family, you know? So. This is true. If the waiter just forgot your order or something and made you 15 minutes late, that's... Now, if you're rating a thing or like a process that's some corporate head, then, yes, by all means, go give them help. But if it's like the, like, even when I'm, whenever I get the thing where it's like, how did we do? Click our survey and you're like, all right, you click it. And there's like 40 questions.

And you're like, Jesus. And it's like, you know, would you recommend? Would you this or that? Fine. But when you get to like the person who served you, how did they just don't even read the questions. Just go down. It's not even a thought. They were perfect.

They were perfect angels. Yeah. Two things. First of all, I hate when apps that you use give you that, hey, do you like, do you like this app. Yeah, that shit sucks. You know, fuck you. I know exactly where to go to rate this app if I feel like it. Like, I don't need you to try to lead me over

back to the I store to try to like go to good fucking rating out of me. You know what? No. If Puck Soup doesn't do it to its listeners, then by golly, Fortnite shouldn't do it to me. Second of all, this entire conversation is why I've always

said that the best people in the world are the people that have worked in a service industry, particularly food service. Um, until you've been at a burger king like I have on the other side of the counter, surprisingly, and, uh, you've had a customer come up to you with a burger that has been eaten to within a bite of its life and says, can I speak to the manager they got their, they got my order wrong? Mm-hmm. That you don't understand the depths of depravity of people. Yeah. And how they game the system and how, frankly, it's ruined it for the good people in the world where if you have a, legitimate gripe, you pull your punch because you don't want to be like one of those assholes

that takes advantage of the system all the time. Yep. Like, that's the thing. It discourages it. But just common decency should discourage it. Like, we're all out here. We're all doing our best. Don't, don't make problems for somebody who, you know, quite frankly, is probably making

minimum wage or less on a job they hate. Like, get over yourself. Or they're closing that night. because they're the only one who works of Burger King who has a car, you know, one of those things. Yeah. Like me. Do you know that I listen to the majority of the devil's 95 playoff run on a Walkman while mopping the floor at Burger King? Wow.

That was a thing that happened. That sentence contained two things that younger people are not familiar with. That's, uh... The Devil's wing. Devil's playoff runs and Walkman's. That's, uh, wow. We have a lot of listeners that were cognizant in 2000. 2012, my friend. I'll have you know.

Sure, we do. Kings had to beat somebody. Outdoor game in Raleigh, what say you? Yeah, all right, sure. Who cares? I'm not going. The fact, I like that they're spreading it around. This is the right thing to do. It's time to start getting some other teams into the mix. Carolina has been a interesting story over the last little while. It's time. I get it when they've missed playoffs nine years in a row. You're not going to reward them with an outdoor game.

but they're good now. Get them in there. Get them in the mix. And let's do it for some other teams, too. Yeah, the thing to say about any outdoor game and getting mad or not mad about it, like, they keep telling you, this is only for people who are in attendance. It's really not the big deal it used to be because the NHL intentionally watered down because they can jack up ticket prices and get 50,000 people in the door.

you know and so I think like I think that's really cool for fans of the hurricanes and presumably the penguins who they will play yeah presumably I don't know that for sure but you know that's what everybody's saying so I'll well there's two things there's two things on that which is that one apparently Pittsburgh there's a lot of like when the penguins come to play the hurricanes they're one of those teams that fills the opposing building because there's so many ex-burgers there and then I guess it's going to be like the Jim Rutherford appreciation game? I don't know. Maybe. Yeah, no, I don't think anyone's, you're not filling a building, but because the GM used to work there. He doesn't draw? He doesn't draw money? Yeah, that's a weird, he's like, Diesel as WWF champion, doesn't draw money? I don't think he's going to put asses in seats, no. Oh, man. Yeah, it sounds like Pittsburgh instead of Washington. Washington was kind of the de facto, hey, they've got some heat in the rivalry and they're sort of geographically close kind of team that everybody was sort of predicting would be in the game.

The interesting thing for me about this game, I was talking to somebody from the NHL about it. Every place they take outdoor games, they theme the rink to the area that they're in or to the service academy that they're at. I mean, there was a plane next to the rink at Air Force. There was an aircraft carrier at Navy. What do they do for Raleigh?

Like, fields of tobacco plants? Like, what the fuck do you do for Raleigh? Like, what is the Raleigh thing? I talked to somebody from the area who said that, I'm like, what's the culture? Like, what would they give a shout out to? He's like, well, people like grilling and going to race, car races. I was just going to say NASCAR track around them. There it is.

So barbecue smokers and RVs filling the space between the race track around the rink with like Zambonies going around. Oh, God. They're going to do that shit, aren't they? Oh, no. You're right. that's what it's going to be. It's going to be a racing motif.

Shit. Wow. That means like a NASCAR guy drops the first puck. Oh no, he drives the first puck in. That's what it is, right? Like some souped up NASCAR going zoom, zoom. And then he brings the puck in like the fucking skydivers bought the puck in this time. Yeah.

Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's going to be like a NASCAR motif. Did you guys, by the way, see is it Jim O'Callahan, the Miracle on Ice? Jack. Guys, Jack, yeah. Did the face off last night with the Chicago and New York? Did you, did you happen to see that? I saw it.

Where he, like, did it. It was Patrick Kane and Artemmy Panarin, and he just gets up there and just, like, throws the puck at Patrick Kane. I thought that was funny. I thought that was pretty good. What did you guys think of the Debrusk thing last night, by the way? Because for those who didn't see it, Louis DeBrusk interviewed Jake Debrusk, and they had a little father-son moment before the game.

Normally, I'm extraordinarily cynical and hate when. parents call the games of their kids, because goodbye adjectivity. But I found that to be a really sweet moment. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age. I feel like that happened before. Like, I watched it and I thought it was nice or, you know, like they're busting each other. Was it the Ferraros that did it though? Oh, it was the Ferraros.

You know what it was? It was when Landon was on the Bruins. And that was why they had him talk to Ray. But, yeah, no. So, like, that was why I got it confused, I mean. But yeah, it's nice. I think it's, you know, your mom, she said to have a good game tonight. And, you know, he goes, ah, she didn't say that about you or, you know, whatever it is.

Like, that's fun. Yeah. Good for them. It was good. I don't have any alternate hot takes. It was fun and heartwarming and probably a pretty awesome moment for both of them, but for Louis DeBrusk especially. So, yeah, it was good. It was sweet.

I didn't mind it. I think normally I might. Player safety, people remind of player safety. My God. This happened since our last podcast, which was the Evander Kane, three-game suspension for what he said was a ridiculous elbowing that he was called for on Neil Pyong. And he received a minor in that game, got a three-game suspension, of course, repeat offender status for Evander Kane, said there is a major lack of consistency within the.

NHL Department of Player Safety. It completely flawed all caps system in so many ways from the suspension to appeal rights. It's battling to me how we as players agreed to this. Called out George Peros saying it's ridiculous. The department continues to pick and choose who and what they suspend. It's true. And called for a third party to take over player safety, which I think is that's, that's where you lose with me. I think that's a decision that's fraught with problems if you're the players to be quite candid with you. Because I think that there is something to be said for hockey people making these hockey decisions and maybe if an outside party was looking at it from a more objective standpoint, the suspensions would be even longer. Well, I mean,

you say that and that makes sense. But any time it's gone to an objective arbitrator or whatever, it's always brought the suspension down. That's a good point. That's a good point. But also that's based on like citing precedent and all that kind of thing. You never, I never feel like any time they go to an independent arbitrator that you're dealing with someone who really knows what they're working with. I mean, you just left to look at the arbitration stuff. I like Evander Kane is, he's right in the sense that there's inconsistency. I don't, I would have a very hard time showing someone who wasn't a hockey fan the Evander Kane play and then the Zadano Chara cross check on Brandon Gallagher. And saying which one's worse, yeah, absolutely. Which one of these is is worse and which one of these. deserves multiple games and which one deserves nothing at all because a fine is is nothing essentially. So yeah, I'm with him on that. I don't know that he's really breaking any ground here other than maybe the fact that we rarely hear players say this this forcefully. I mean, the rest of us have been complaining about Department of Player Safety decisions for years. I just don't see

why you would think that putting in the hands of somebody else is going to solve the problem. The problem is NHL teams don't want their guys getting suspended. NHL teams don't want high suspensions. The Players Association doesn't want high. Nobody ever wants a lot of games until it's their guy who's the victim. And on any given one of these incidents,

there's going to be one team and one fan base where their guy's the victim. And they're the only ones who really want to see a big, I mean, it's easy, sure, if it's two teams you don't care about to go, oh, that should be a lot of games. But whenever it's your guy, and I'm as guilty of this as any other fan, any other media, as soon as it's your guy, there's all sorts of reasons why it shouldn't be.

And the NHL views all of these guys as their guys. So it can make it a third party, make it whoever, unless they had complete independence and never had to answer to anyone, which is not a system that anyone would ever agree to. It's going to be the same thing. And that's whether it's a third party, it's whether it's George Peros, It's whether it's Paul Korea, who we all apparently decided is the guy who's going to save this, even though I don't think he's ever expressed any interest. Apparently, that's the only, that's the only clean player any of us can remember. Like, yeah, it doesn't matter who is doing it. You're going to get maybe marginal improvements with different systems. But until the entire mindset changes, this is going to remain as an issue. And the mindset probably isn't ever going to change. in talking to some player safety people, I get the sense on the Charra thing. I don't know if they feel like they dropped the ball in the ruling, even though I think most of us believe they did.

But they definitely dropped the ball not explaining the ruling. Like, they used to do this sometimes with these controversial plays. Which is something they're usually good at. Yeah. And I feel like the communication has kind of gotten a little bit jumbled up under the Peros regime where a play like that, where there might be, like, there might be something that they see that we don't. And I always find those videos to be very educational. and I come away thinking, oh, okay, now I understand why this guy got what he got. In that situation, it seems so fucking blatant that it was an illegal play and that it was a star player maybe getting away with one, that they really needed to kind of come out and explain it better.

And they never did. And I think they know that they kind of fucked that one up. Yeah. Well, and maybe they did. And yeah, because I'm with you. I've had, and I mentioned this before, I've had a bunch of times in the past where I've seen the number scroll through my Twitter feed of what at the suspension. mentioned and I've gone, they blew it. And then I went and I watched the video they put out. And by the end of it, I was like, yeah, okay. Maybe. And I wish that the whole NHL did that on things like replay reviews instead of the useless stuff that they give us.

I think it's really useful. But yeah, this time they sort of punted on that. And maybe that's an admission that they sort of knew that they weren't getting it right or or maybe not. But yeah, I give them credit because 90% of the time those are really well done. And this time, maybe not as much. Yeah. And this also came in the wake of the kicking suspension for Zach Cassian, which, again, what did he get six, seven games? Seven. But that, see, that made sense, though. And that's another example of that the whole process of explaining yourself.

Like, everybody was thinking about the pronger play, the stomp on Kessler. But if you go back to Jeff Skinner, 2012, Yeah, you only got like two or something for a kick, right? Yeah, he used his skate to separate himself from, I think it was Scott Nickel at the time. And so, you know, I think I'm more of a defender of player safety the most, because I think more times than not, they do deal with precedent when, and, you know, it's unfortunate some of the precedents kind of shoot in low, which is why some of these suspensions aren't what they should be.

And that's the problem. And that's the problem. But I mean, that's regimes that predate paros. But on that one, it's like, okay, if this guy used his skate to separate from another guy, and it's kind of weird that nobody freaked the fuck out saying he was trying to slice his stomach open with a Tori Hanzo steel back when it was Jeff Skinner. And that was two games, then it kind of makes sense what Cassian got. Less than Pronger, much more than Skinner. So I agreed with that one.

I mean, it was a month after his previous suspension for going ape shit on a guy. You felt wronged him. Yeah, that's a thing too. Yeah. Like, he's... And the other thing with Cassian is, like, the total list of precedence for this sort of play is pretty much what we just talked about. Yes.

You know, like Ryan Hallweg, but that was different era, different situation, different types of plays. Like, the guys actually kicking, and Martin Havlet had won, but it's like every few years versus Chera where we have seen guys get suspended for cross-checking up high multiple times every season. And it was kind of like why, like Cassie and I, I get that you could sort of be like, there's a wide range that this could land. Like with Chera, yeah, I get, I get why Montreal fans and fans outside were, were confused about that.

Yeah. All right. Well, oh, last thing, Paris. So hired and officially got the gig in 2017. This will be his third season at the helm. time to change out what Ken Campbell affectionately calls the Violet Gentlemen or keep him in place

Yeah, I see you later. I'm done with it. Yeah, I mean, I don't change him up just because of a certain amount of time. I think if you think he's doing a good job, you keep him, and if not, then you move on. But like I said, I don't think bringing in a different player, even if it's a different type of player, is going to address the much bigger issue of the fact that this department is operating

exactly the way that the NHL wants them to, and those are their bosses, and that's their mandate. And it can be Paul Corrie or Timu Salani or Lady Bing herself. It's not going to change people do what their bosses want them to do. Yeah. And if the players, if there is an appetite beyond Evander Kane for the players to change the system, I think the NHL is more than willing to go higher on fines and things like that than is currently collectively bargained. But again, that would take the players coin together and saying, yeah, punish us more, Daddy, which I don't think is necessarily going to ever happen. Well, that can be one of the things that they have to give up to get the Olympics that everybody should already want.

Yeah, because I did have to explain over the weekend to a non-hockey fan why a coach saying, that the refs fucked them at every turn for an entire game, got twice the amount of fine that Zadano Chara did for cross-checking a guy in the throat. Oh, and who was the ref that dropped an F-bomb on a player this past week? Did you see that? Yeah, it was in that Montreal game. I don't remember who it was now. I don't know why that's...

Maybe this is just me and having seen enough of this stuff and been around for as long as I have been. but like, refs are fuck you and players all the time. Yeah, of course. But what you don't understand, Greg, is it happened to someone on the Montreal Canadiens and got picked up on the mic. And in a game where they didn't get any power plays, so clearly he just has a problem. Because right before the mic picked him up saying, go fuck yourself or whatever to that guy, the player was being very polite and nice to him.

He didn't say anything bad to the ref. The ref, the rep prompted said the accursed F word. word, which you're not allowed to say. Gotcha. The curses F word. Well, here I'm puck soup. No. All right.

So, trades, there are a lot of trades happen, too. A lot of people probably be listening to this fucking podcast being like, when are they going to talk about the trades? They're trades. Well, here they are, folks. Let's start at the beginning, shall we? Did we talk about the Zucker trade, right? We did. I think we did.

We're good on that. I think the first one we got to talk about. is maybe Tyler to for no the devil's trades let's go Andy Green for Quenville I assume Joel and a 2021 second round pick a second round pick for Andy Green who had a no trade probably wouldn't have gone anywhere but to be reunited with Lou Lamarillo so good job Tommy Fitzgerald getting a second at a Lou on this one on both of his trades I thought he did yeah I would do you mean do you mean getting a first round pick Vancouver is no less and no in foot from the Tampa Bay Lightning in exchange for Blake Coleman and his

bargain basement contract? Yeah. Yeah. I thought that, I thought they did. I see why Tampa's making that trade. The Islanders going out for Andy Green, maybe a little less so. The area where I would have said. There's got to make one trade every three years.

Yeah. The area where I would have said, you know, the, the islanders need to add is maybe not a defense-only defenseman. Yeah. But that trade was very, very, like, Lou's great, and I know people love Lou, but sometimes Lou does very Lou things. And era, all I need a known quantity is a very Lou thing to do. I love Lake Coleman, by the way. I think Blake Coleman has upside is amazing penalty killer, super fast, can score a goal, you know, in your bottom six.

And I think could even be somebody who plays up if needs be. Yeah, I agree. I think he's great. And his contract can't be beat. I mean, fuck, man. 1.8 million for next season? And that's it. That's why it's worth overpaying for because if you're...

They get the extra year out of it. Not just because he's great value, but if you're a team like Tampa, you don't have the room this year and beyond to add anyone who's making more than that. And the list of guys who are who can help you, but make a... under the number they could fit is very low. And if the NHL passed some weird rule that said the Tampa Bay Lightning could only acquire players who were born in December and there was only one good player out there who was born in December, you've got to pay a premium to get that guy because that's the only guy you can go get.

And this was, you know, not the only guy they could, but clearly the list of available players forwards making less than two million was Blake Coleman and then a whole bunch of guys you probably wouldn't even want. your team. So, yeah, I mean, they paid, did they overpay? They paid more than what I would necessarily have expected the devils to get. But sometimes it does make sense to overpay to get exactly what you need versus sitting there and saying, no, we're going to keep our wallet in our pocket and get nothing.

They have some financial decisions to make coming up here in the next, in this. coming summer and following. I just think it's kind of crazy. The devil's got the Vancouver one out of that deal and not the... Well, I think... I think what Tampa would say is that, you know,

they can... There's more value and... In that... In keeping their own pick? Well, no. I mean, there obviously isn't, but there's more value in the Vancouver pick. And like, you know,

if it was a choice between a first, Tampa's first and second and a Vancouver pick that might not even happen this year, depending on if they make the playoffs, I think, yeah, that's true. I think that's, that's probably what Tampa Bay was thinking. Like, you've got to pay this price, and it's preferable than giving up two picks. Preparable to make sure that you have a first round pick. Yes. Yeah, and it gave them that ability, you're right, that other teams in that situation wouldn't have, where it's like, we'll give up a first. Yeah, but it's going to be like high 20s. Well, here's one that maybe.

Maybe, but maybe not. You know, Tampa goes out in the first round again, and Vancouver goes to the conference final. And I don't know. But yeah, it's, I, that's one of those deals where I look at it and I go, I get it from both. I mean, it's a no-brainer from Jersey's standpoint, because they get a good prospect and a first.

But I get it for Tampa too. So, yeah, makes sense. on both sides. To Foley to the Canucks for a literal King's ransom. 20-20-second rounder, Tim Schaller throw in for the salary stuff. Tyler Madden, the prospect going back the other way.

My God. The Kings just add to their coffers of young prospects and talents. I like Tofoli a lot, and I think watching them last night for the Canucks kind of underscored the fit there is pretty good. They gave up a lot to get them. Yeah.

But it became a necessity after we learned that Brock Bessor is going to be out for the last of the regular season, maybe. Which, again, there still seems to be some discrepancy over how much Vancouver knew when they made the deal. Like, did they know he was gone potentially the season? Or were they still under the impression it was shorter term? Like, there's two ways to view that, right? You look at it and you say, if you're going to lose Brock Besser, you've got to replace him. Here's your replacement. the other argument is if you're going to lose Brock Besser, you're not, this isn't your year.

And you just say, you know, this isn't the year to be given up major assets for a rental. But I, you know, and I was kind of on that side, but I read some of the stuff. And like Elliot Friedman and his 31 thoughts had the view from Vancouver, which I'm guessing probably came straight from Jim Benning or somebody like that. And it made some sense. Well, no, I mean, that's where you're going to get there. Like, what is Vancouver thinking, right? Like people like me sit here and go, whoa, here's what they probably think. And people like Elliot pick up the phone and actually get it straight from the people making the decisions.

And, you know, the argument was like it's been a while. They haven't made the playoffs. They got a good young team. Like we kind of owe it. The team has outperformed. The team is sitting in a better position, partly because the division sucks, but a better position than anyone thought. But also, you know what? And it's the same thing with when I look at teams like Edmonton who seem like they don't,

necessarily want to do anything. Like, yeah, I mean, it's a bad division, but someone's going to come out of that division, and that team's going to be one of the four teams left with a shot at the Stanley Cup. So, I mean, are you expecting? And the other thing, the other thing to say with that is, yeah, Vancouver is going to improve next year. But, like, can you count on another bad year from Vegas?

Can you count on another bad year from Calgary? Well, maybe if they trade Johnny Goddrow. Can you count on Connor McDavid missing a bunch of time and the Edmonton Oil? maybe be like that's a big gamble if you're if you're the Canucks and yeah this is probably their best shot to go more than one round for the foreseeable future so fucking like Tyler Madden's good but you know is he like a second line NHL center and you know is that maybe his ceiling be yeah that's kind of what yeah projects to but you but even if he's not third line like his dad was he's still going to be pretty good I think oh he's way more skilled than his dad though like you

How dare you? I mean, he objectively is. But what the Kings need to do is find Jay Pandolfo's son. Is he around? Probably. Probably. That trade reminds me a little bit of another Canucks trade from a few years ago, which is when they traded Alex Burroughs to the senators in 2017.

And they got back what was considered a really good prospect. And it was Alex Burroughs. And it was kind of like a lot of people immediate, the instant reaction was that what are the, the senators doing. This is a terrible. And I remember at the time, I was kind of one of the only ones. And I said, like, look at where the senators are now. Look at that division. The Atlantic was not very strong that year. I said, like, if, like, why not now? Like, somebody's going to win that division. And sure enough, not because Alex Burroughs lit it up or anything, but, but the senators

end up going to the conference final come within one goal of playing for the Stanley Cup. And yeah, I mean, I know based on the logic of what we're apparently supposed to think, days. They didn't win the Stanley Cup, so therefore the trade was a bad trade. But no, it wasn't. It was the right time to take a shot and they got a really long playoff run out of it. And by the way, the prospect didn't even turn out to be what they thought. The problem was that that, of course, that playoff run, of course, convinced them that they should try to be competitive for two years and so. Good point. Yeah. That is the danger. So, yeah, like, we don't talk about his extension. So that's true. We don't talk enough about, about,

about Pierre Dorian talking about how players are coming up and hugging him when they made the Alex Sparrow Street. That's right. I forgot about that. They were laying, they literally rolled out a red carpet when he came into the race. We should ask him for an update on that. How they getting hugged by players is going?

Because I have a sense that maybe he's not getting. I like Dorian a bit more like now than I did back in a day. Like I think he's done okay for himself. Although we'll get to the Dillandallotrade in a second. But man, for a while, that dude was the Iraqi information minister of the NHL. Like the fucking delusion from that guy on a daily basis was spectacular. I mean, don't forget, it was only a year ago. He traded Mark Stone and said it was like his

favorite day as a GM ever and that that didn't go over very well here. We traded for Alex Burroughs and people, people were throwing flowers and sweets at me in the hallways with the arena as I walked through. Yeah. God damn. I would question whether he's changed or whether people are just paying less attention to Ottawa. There you go. Now we're telling them. I like both those theories. DeMello for a third. The senators were never getting a second for Dylan DeMello based on how many defensemen were available. I was only a little bit surprised. He's the best defenseman that got traded in the last week.

He buy a lot. Let's put it this way. If Alec Martinez got two seconds, I think Dylan DeMello should have been worth at least one. Yeah, that one surprised me. Yeah, the market's the market. But also they made the trade a week before the market closed, which that's the only part because between, between, between, Tyler Tofoli, in between the two devils, and maybe even the Jason Zucker trade, I felt like it was really shaping up like a seller's market. Like, the prices were pretty good that these guys were getting.

And to see a team then jump in a week early and make a deal where you kind of went, oh, that's only so-so. But we don't know. Like, I mean, it is very possible that Pierre Dorian called every team in the league said, I'm, to have this guy available. I'd like to get a second round pick. Every single team said, no, in fact, not even a third. that this morning. And then one team called him, yeah. And then one team called him back and said, we will do a third, but it's got to be today.

Because, and he took the, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to rip the guy for not getting more than than he got. Yeah. And to speak to your point, though, like the guys you mentioned are forwards, though. And there is a glut of defensemen available at this deadline, many more than impact forwards, I think. Well, I guess there's a glove until there's not a glut. And then the team that's left without having added somebody, maybe is willing to pay a higher. price. But you're right. You roll the dice. It can go the other way to. The biggest problem for DeMello, just in terms of what teams seem to be looking for is that he's

not like six three. Right. That's it. He's like six feet tall. And then because of that. Brendan Bill, yeah. Brendan Dillon goes to the Capitol's second rounder and a conditional third to the sharks. I like, Dylan's had a pretty rough season, but I think that that could be a function of the sharks having a pretty rough season. He's a shark. Yeah. But, uh, but I, but I, I like him. I generally like him as like a lower-end option on your defense and like you're not looking to him for offense, that kind of thing, which the capitals obviously won't. I think he can be fine.

Yeah, I like. And resets their second pairing, I think probably or if they're going to play them up with Carlson, then it kind of allows someone else to drop down. Their defense needed a bit of a refresh. And I like, I like Dylan a lot. Scandela to the blues, I mean, let's just again do the trade tree. Bauderil trades a third in a package for Scandela. He gets a fourth from the Habs for Scandela. The habs get a second from the blues for Scandella.

Oh, and meanwhile, Scandela only gets traded from the Sabres to the Montreal because we got to be in the Michael Frolic business. And then he goes to the Sabres and just completely shifts the bed. So who does all around to Jason Botterill? And I get that, you know, I had a tweet about like, this isn't going to go over well in Buffalo. and 90% of the response was, yeah, you're damn right, it's not going over well because they're pretty much done with the entire Jason Botterill experience. But I had some Sabres fans pushing back saying, you know, circumstances have changed.

And yeah, they have. Some of which was foreseeable, some of which wasn't. Nobody knew what was going to happen to Jay Bowmeister, of course. But still, yeah, circumstances change, but, you know, it's the old, they sold low and bought high or whatever. It's not a good look. And it's the sort of thing, I'm sure when that trade crossed the wire, like Jason Botterl was probably just like, I do not need this right now. This is, this is. Ryan, what type of music does the Jason Botterill experience play?

They're like a swing revival band. Like squirreled on zippers? I was going to say, man, that is, that is emo. That is like very, very sad, very like. Actually, this might just be the way he looks, but I'm pretty sure it's sort of like a poor man's LCD sound system. Very poor man's. James Murphy a little bit. Yeah, I can see that.

You can see that a little bit, right? Yeah. Like, okay, so the thing with Scandella is, like you say, they needed literally any defenseman, and they got literally any defenseman. He's not good. But he is, one thing you can say for him, he is in the NHL. So they got what they were looking for. Definitely. Yeah, and probably the best NHL player ever named Marco, right?

No? Margo Sturm. Oh, shit. Fuck, you're right. God damn it. Sorry, Scandella. I wouldn't normally give a shit about a Dennis Malgan is a trade. No, nor should you. But as this show is going on, Chris Johnson, our good friend CP,

reports that he didn't, he says he didn't request the trade out of Florida. And then our friend Pierre LeBron says, Maligan's agent Peter Swavoda confirmed me yesterday that he asked Dale Tallinn in Florida several times to get Maligan dealt elsewhere, Scotty. And again, Talon also says he was asked by Swaboda to get him traded. So the GM says that he's... This is one of those things where the reality is probably that they went to the Panthers

and said, if he's not going to play at this spot in the lineup, we would be open to you exploring a move, which is a request but not a demand and everything. everybody is just kind of covering their own. Yeah, I think it's immaterial why he got traded as well, because, like, the coach just wasn't playing him, right? Like, that's the real... He went through, what, four or five games getting healthy scratched and that kind of thing. And, you know, fucking Quinville's playing multiple defensemen on the wings up front

instead of Malgan, who, like, he's having a really bad season. Like, you know, if you're asking him to be a kind of a no offense, defense first kind of a guy he you know is getting scored on a lot I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that his on ice save percentage at 5 on 5 is 870

but you know it's just really it's a situation where like they got an NHL Toronto got an NHL player for an AHLer who's older than him so

yeah I feel like maybe Malgan just doesn't want to be the guy that requested a trade. Maybe. And, yeah, the thing from the Toronto perspective is the guy, the kid that gave up, Marchman, who's 25, was never in the conversation as like a Leafs prospect of any, you know, he played in the NHL, came in, did it, did okay in his 10 minutes a night or whatever, but not, it kind of feels like the Leafs are getting up maybe useful player for pretty much, not much of anything.

Yeah. All right. And finally, like you mentioned, the Martiore. Trade. I think Martinez is good. He's wrong. Incorrect. He stinks. He stinks. Very bad. But I think the problem I have with that trade is that, well, first of all, like, Vegas has a ton of assets to deal. So it doesn't, the two seconds don't really bother me either way. But like, I feel like that team needs more puck movers.

They need a bit more pop off the blue line. And Martinez isn't that. So I don't quite know what the thought was there. Well, again, he's like six three. So who, who, oh, there you go. He's tall. Fits the suit. It's a big selling point, as I say. Yeah. All right. So in honor of the trade deadline, and keep in mind that we're doing this show on Thursday morning. By the time you listen to it, everything will have happened. And also, there'll be players that we don't anticipate getting traded that get traded. Johnny Goodrow. Although, I just saw what you're talking about.

And he also deleted the, where to go, BC? He went to BC, yeah. He deleted the BC reference. You cannot make that decision or that mistake. He deleted BC from his bio too, so I don't know what that means. He's going to grad school at Michigan. He's retiring from the NHL. Yeah.

What was I going to say? Oh, yeah. So anyways, so we figured we'd have a little trade deadline fun. Sean has put together a little something something, and we are going to participate in his reindeer game now. Yes. Lots of fun. Sorry, if I'm distracted, I've got a, uh, there's a dude. standing on my porch reading the little sign that says,

do not knock on the door and trying to figure out if he's going to knock on the door or not. So I'm sort of watching him. Oh, man. But yes. Well, if you need to load your gun, let us know. Yeah. Yeah, what we're going to do is something that I've done in the past in various formats. We're going to have you guys put your money where your mouths are and make some wages in the,

Sean's trade deadline sportsbook and casino. And buy your money, I think I mean your imaginary money. But yeah, I've put together a couple of wagers for you guys, and we can go through them, and you guys can figure out where you want to throw a few bones, and then we can revisit next week and see you how you did. All right. So we each get, like, is it a hundred bucks to bet? Sure.

You could do 100. It doesn't really matter. But yeah, I'll run it through. We should point out this is like, it's. It's like lunchtime on Thursday as we're doing this. So this is all referencing when I say trade deadline, I'm talking everything after this point is what we're talking about. So if there are like six trades happen in the afternoon that we don't get to, that's, yeah,

we can only deal with what hasn't happened yet. Right. The future, as it were. Exactly. So I've got, I think, seven categories here. And I'm going to suggest we just kind of go through them and you guys can either throw your, throw your bets down as we go or, or if you want to hold off on some and maybe come back to them, it's your call.

Go ahead. So the first one is, is just the, uh, the obvious one. It's the total number of trades are going to be happen between right now and the trade deadline. And this is an over under. And I have set the over under at 29 and a half trades. Oh. Now, for perspective, this time last year, there were 32 trades.

So I'm projecting a little bit quieter weekend plus of activity, but still a pretty healthy, healthy amount. From this point on, weekend plus, how many categories are there, seven? There's seven altogether, yeah. I'm going to put, Greg puts $20 on the under for total trades. Okay. Yeah, not to be too boring with it, but I'm going to go 25 on the under. I'm feeling 25 on the under. Okay, there you go.

That's a bold choice. That is a bold choice. That is a quarter of your budget you just put on this bet. Yeah. Okay. So there we go. Then the next category is, all right, so that one was an over under. This one, we've got an actual odds breakdown. So please, please listen to all the selections before making your choice, as our options have recently changed.

For English, press one. Which Eastern Conference team is going to make the most trades between now and the deadline? And I've got the Devils as the favorites at 5 to 1, senators at 6 to 1, Sabres and Canadians, both at 7 to 1, Rangers 9 to 1, Hurricanes 10 to 1, Maple Leafs 15 to 1, and then the field, which is everyone else, at 4 to 1. You interested in dropping anything on any of those. Stay at the teams again? Devils, five to one. Senators, six, sabers and tabs at seven. And then the longer shots, Rangers 9, Hurricanes 10, Leif's 15.

The most trades. I'm going to put $10 on the New York Hockey Rangers. So $10 to win $100. 90 plus your bet. Yeah. Sure. Ryan? Yeah, again, I think I'm going to go with chalk here, but I got to go with the devils. They're in a position to trade a whole hell of a lot of guys, so I wouldn't be surprised if they did it.

How much are you wagering, sir? I'll go 10 as well. Okay. Okay. All right. Next one, predictably, which Western team will make the most trades? and I've got a few more teams on the list here. I've got the Wild as the favorite at 6 to 1,

Kings at 7 to 1, Hawks and Predators both at 8 to 1, ducks at 9 to 1, Oilers 10 to 1, Avalanche 11 to 1, Knights and Flames, both at 15 to 1 and then the field, which is not that many teams, because I just listed a whole bunch,

but the field at 6 to 1. Give me the top three odds again. Wild at 6 to 1, Kings 7, Hawks, and Predators at 8, and also the field is 6 to 1. Yeah, I'll take 10 bucks on the chalk. I'll take the Wild. I'm going to go 15 on Chicago.

I just read all about how they let their GM down, and he's going to make some moves. He was holding off, and now he's going to. They're interesting, because we didn't really talk about it, but the whole, like, Duncan Keith, hey, shouldn't we be trying to win? We're the Blackhawks. Like, that didn't help Stan Bowman, I don't think.

We're the Blackhawks. Yeah. All right. We got a few more. Four more to go. These are all over-unders from here on in. How many trades will happen between now and the deadline that involve a first-round pick, including conditional picks?

So basically, they include any pick that could be a first. I'm setting the over-under at 2.5. Last year, there were three. All right, so we still have Pajot, potentially Crichter, guys that are under contract that could move, like, Tatar. I'll take $10 on the over. Okay. I guess I'll take 10 on the under. Oh.

I like it. I like it. Even though I don't necessarily believe that, but just for our. argument's sake. If I was betting, I would probably go under just because I don't see a lot of the guys like last year there were the three, but one of them was Matthew Shane. And Mark Stone didn't end up getting a first, but there was Kevin Hayes, I think was one of them. And I don't remember the third one was. But yeah, I don't see as many of that this year, but you never know. They always surprise us. Okay, next one. How many goaltenders who have played at least one

NHL game will be traded between now and the deadline. I've set the over-under at 1.5. Last year there was only one, which was Keith Kincaid, but there were two more in the days right before. There was that Cam Talbot trade to Philadelphia. So it's, yeah, 1.5 is the over-under on this one. Wow. And Greg, you have $50 left for these next like three categories. Glad somebody is keeping track. I am too. In 1.5, you said? Yep. Yeah, I'll take the, I'll take 20 bucks in the over.

20 bucks on the over. Okay. I'll take 15 on the over, yeah. Yeah. The thing with these is the, because there are, you know, there's the ranger's situation in goal, and there's the Chicago situation. And the thing in the past, and when I've done this,

people, this, I said it low this year, but in the past I've fed it like 2.5,000, and people always think it's too. high, but the thing is with goalies, usually in mid-season, when they get traded, there's another goalie coming back. So that's why I would probably go over on that. We didn't talk about it, J.F. Barubei, to the Rangers. Right.

Sure. Who would not count towards this total, because he has not played in the NHL this year. Oh, you meant this year, okay. They have to have played one game in the NHL this year. Got it, got it, got it. If that was unclear, if you would like to change your bet. I think we're still good on the over. for me anyway.

I don't know about Greg, but. But yeah, that trade seems like this. I mean, look, it's obvious that like the Rangers could trade one of their goalies, but I mean, we all know Carrie Price is getting traded to the avalanche. That's right. I forgot. Yeah. Yeah.

So. Yeah. The Barube trade kind of seems like an indication that the Rangers might not trade any of their goalies. They kind of need somebody in the H.L. Because they're just going to keep everyone up. But we'll see. All right.

What will be the biggest. trade in terms of the number of players and picks involved, including conditional. So basically the number of assets, what's going to be the biggest trade as far as what's going in each direction? I've set the over under at 4.5. Last year, the biggest trade was six, but that was the Matthew Shane trade, which was a bigger name than anyone who's really out there today. Other than Matthew Shane last year, everything was four or less, but there were a few that were at four on the nose. I'm taking 20 bucks on the over.

All right, I'm going to do some math here to see where I'm at math was. I think I have $10 left after this. No, no, yeah, and you took the over, okay. I have 5575, so I have 25 left to spend. I'll go 10 on the under. All right. Very good. I like the over on this one.

I find every year, even if it's not a big trade, in terms of what you would think of being a big blockbuster, like the DeShane was, there's always like one weird trade where you're like, why are you even doing this? It's like, it has something to do with like the 50 contract limit, and there's like three guys you've never heard of on one side and three conditional, I don't know. I would have liked the... The cap, the cap necessitates that kind of, those kinds of trades more than that else. And you're just sort of like, what is even the point of this?

But all right, last one. how many players who have at some point in their career played in an all-star game are going to get traded between now and the deadline. I've set the over under at 2.5. Last year, there were actually only two. Matthew Shane and Wayne Simmons. Mark Stone never played an all-star game. And there are a few other surprise guys.

But I'll throw some names that are on the trade boards this year, just to give you a sense, like Trocheck in Florida. Thornton and Marlowe and San Jose Ilya Colchuk would qualify here Simmons again Oh yeah Cory Crawford is another guy Although not Robin Lennar

Chris Kreider would not But there's There's always more names in this category Than you think Jeff Carter If he goes back to Philly Jeff Carter would be another Yep

Jeff Carter would be one yeah Was Wayne Simmons in an All-Star game? What's that? Was Wayne Simmons? Yes Simmons has been yeah Okay 2.5

I'll take the under I'll take 10 bucks on the other And that's for your last 10 there Okay Yeah I feel like it could be two But I don't think it'll be 2.5 Okay And I'll go my last 15 on the over

All right, there you go There you go All right So that's gonna get on that Wayne Trocheck train Could happen It's gonna happen baby Let's go

It's very disappointing That this is the first year We don't have Thomas Vanick To screw up that Because he gets traded at every deadline That was one of my favorite stories I wrote. He's the free space. That was one of my favorite stories I wrote in my time at ESPN was talking about,

interviewing Thomas Vannick about the joy of having trade protection from Ken Holland at the deadline. And how fucking strange it was that someone gave him trade protection. Oh, God. It was good times. All right, that was fun. So we'll see how the bets all work out next week when we hit you post trade deadline. for a little bit of fun and whimsy. That's the show for this week.

Lots of wagering and yelling and chuckles and all of the stuff you'd expect. A little politics. All the suit that you want. Yeah. Anyways, I'm Greg Wischinsky of ESPN. You could read me at ESPN.com. Lots of big doings this week at the website. If you didn't see, we did a Hockey Week in America package that included my

ranking of hockey hotbeds and identifying Adina, Minnesota, the cake eaters, as the center of the U.S. hockey universe, which got me a lot of coverage in the local Minneapolis press, boys. I'm very excited about that. That's how you play the game. Holy shit. Hold on. Hold on. No supplemental discipline for Jamie Ben after that hit on Ekman Larson last night. Yeah.

You know, that was a fuck. That was a weird one. Like, he stopped short, but he shoved him from behind. Yeah. He got a game for it. I mean, he got a game of conduct for it. It's, I mean, what do you give him in that spot? Do you give him like a game?

At least a fine. At least a fine. Yeah, I thought that was a bad one, I thought, because he did, like, even if normally they go, you know, while the player kind of turned, and Ekman Larson kind of turned into him, but he had time to put his hands on his back. To shove him into the boards. Yeah. Like it wasn't one of those where like he'd already started the kid and then the guy turns.

That's, uh, well, sorry to extend the show, but no, it's fine. It's an outrage. When you said that, I was really expecting it to be a Johnny Good Joe trade. So I'm happy that it was just a supplemental discipline fuck up. Well, now we all know what it feels like to be disappointed by Jamie Ben. There you go. That was worth it.

ESPN and I, my podcast, we took your calls this week and answered some of you've created Deadline questions did me and Emily. So do check that out. That's the one where I don't curse. Sign up for the Puck Soup newsletter. It's right on the Patreon. It's an extra three bucks a month if you're already getting the bonus episodes or four if for some reason you don't want the bonus episodes. And yeah, three times a week every Wednesday, Friday, and Sunday after, you know, the big slates of Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday games.

So, yeah. And then it's just movie. reviews and stuff in addition to your hockey takes, your standard hockey takes. So check it out. Yeah, you can find my stuff on The Athletic, the usual kind of power rankings and Friday grab bag and also had a post this week where I went through Maple Leaf's history and assembled a full roster of players that they regret trading away, mainly because I just, I figured Leaf fans were a bit too positive and optimistic this week. So I thought I'd knock him down a peg by putting together a team that starts off with Tuka Rask and Bernie Perrin in net and builds up from there.

Because you need to have two goalies if you're going to compete in the... And again, I imagine this was just an excuse to get Wendell Clark on a list at some point, right? You know what? There may or may not be a small rant buried in that piece about various Wendell Clark trades, but yeah. Well, there you go. That's why we love Sean stuff. It's a parfay of angst. Yeah, check it out. If you're a Leafs fan or just somebody who wants to laugh at Maple Leafs fans, it's really our two biggest audiences, so.

All right. That is a diagram of just 100% of hockey fans. Yes, exactly. All right, that's Flexu for this week. Thanks for listening to the show and supporting it. And yeah, if you dig it, go to iTunes and leave reviews and shit. All right. Thanks, everybody. Bye.

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