Puck Soup - Two Bad Pressers

Episode Date: January 18, 2023

Sean and Ryan talk about a rough week for the Canucks, the Provorov debacle, new contracts, and more.   Sponsored by Athletic Greens (athleticgreens.com/puck) and Betterhelp (betterhelp.com/puck)

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's and tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean Maganoo from The Athletic. And I think the number one story in hockey that's, well, obviously, there's a pretty big story from last night. We'll get to it later.

But the number one story in hockey this week, before about 6.45 p.m. last night, was everything that's going on with the Vancouver Canucks. It's real bad over there. It seems like, my opinion. And it stems from the Jim Rutherford story. which I guess we should set up, right? So Tanner Pearson gets hurt. Originally, it sounds like a long time ago, by the way.

A while ago, but it's supposed to be a medium term, like a week's long injury. He has surgeries. Something either goes wrong or goes in a way that makes the situation a longer term. And then Queen Hughes makes a comment about it wasn't handled correctly. which sets off a bunch of alarms that, you know, this is a, maybe is it a situation with the doctors, is it a medical dispute, you know, whatever it is, which leads Jim Rutherford to address the media on Monday, mainly to put out that fire, but because of how things are going with the team, he's then got to address everything.

And it sort of leads to this awkward situation where, you know, on the one hand, I mean, Jim Rutherford's been around forever. He's not going to sugarcoat things, but also, I don't think this was the timing that he wanted to choose to go into this. Yeah, I would say, you know, he held that press conference to try to put out that fire by starting several other fires. It's not a lot of Tanner Pearson talk anymore. You got to give him credit for that, man. That's right. And the thing with the Tanner Pearson thing is basically, what's the,

the Bruins did with the Mitchell Miller thing, where they're like, we looked into it. We handled it actually great. Yeah. You know, I think that aspect of it, I don't feel like, is actually resolved despite what the Canucks are saying. Yeah. But, yeah, so let's start with the Pearson thing. Like you say, he had, so this actually really started a few days ago where they were like, actually Tanner Pearson is going to be out even longer.

And they then had to clarify, like, when we say this, he's getting a second procedure, we mean the second procedure since the first procedure. And now it's looking like he might even need a third one beyond that. Yeah, Elliot was reporting that he was having surgery and was likely going to need another surgery after that. And, like, I'm not a doctor, but when, when they're all. already planning the next one. Maybe not so good.

That doesn't sound good. That harkens back to like when guys like Bobby Orr would have a serious injury and they'd be like, well, he needs like exploratory surgery to know what the surgery that he needs is. It's the 1970s, so we're going to do a surgery to fix all the things we break in the first surgery. Right. This kind of feels like that. Obviously, I don't know all the details of Tanner. And it's something, it's his hand.

It's a, which is... No, no, I'm saying I don't know all the details of like what went wrong or whatever. But it's weird, right? I mean, you would think like... You would think this is extremely weird that a guy's about to have four surgeries on it. Like, I've heard, I've heard, I've heard, like, multiple people say, like, including Elliot, saying, like, the player is worried this might be career threatening at a minimum. Yeah, it was... It was...

It was... It was... It was denied that it was career threatening. threatening and the fact that that term even comes up is very scary. So, yeah, it's, I think you're right. Like, I don't think we know the story here. I think it's, the one, I guess, newsworthy thing from Rutherford on this, because I don't think it's newsworthy that he would say,

we looked into it and we didn't do anything wrong. I mean, that's what you would expect him to say. He did say that he had no issue with Quinn Hughes saying what he said, which I guess matters in the sense that in this train wreck of a season, that's kind of all you need is for there to be now. Everybody's mad at Quinn Hughes. Bad feelings in the organization that Quinn Hughes said what he said, which was really weird.

Like it really kind of came out of nowhere a few days ago when he made the comment. Yeah, that like fully out of nowhere. people were like, whoa, what? Yeah. So it's obviously you feel horrible for Tanner Pearson, but also, you know, this kind of rolls into, and I think Dran's talked about this on Vancouver radio, that like, it doesn't seem like anybody's happy with how they're treating Bruce Boudre this season either, where they've clearly hired a replacement for him.

Have you ever seen this before? No. I cannot recall in decades as a hockey fan. And I'm talking like I go back to the 80s. Like I go back to Harold Ballard and, you know, like there was a lot of weird stuff happening then. But I can't ever remember a situation where a coach was still there during the season, still working,

everybody knew who the replacement was, apparently. Apparently, it's Rick Tocke. And you have Rutherford saying, basically saying, yes, I've been talking to potential replacements for months, which does happen. I mean, it's not like teams fire a coach and then pick up the phone and call a guy and within an hour they have a new coach ready to go.

Right. But I've never heard anybody say that. sure yeah so i don't know if i should like be glad like i mean elliots when he wrote up the the whole thing kind of said you know look we we crush these guys for being boring and never saying anything so maybe we i will i never want to hear that shit again you don't like never in my life that's the stupid because like that is that's just absolutely the dumbest like if a guy and again we will talk about the pro vera of thing later in the show. But like, you know, there, there were people probably last night going like, oh, one guy, you, you say you don't want hockey players to express their opinion, but you don't want them to express this opinion. It's like, shut the fuck up. That is just such a like, I don't know what the word is. Like, it's one of those debate terms where it's like you're just trying to change the subject or whatever, you know, I don't know what the word is. But like that's, that to me is like one of the stupidest things you could possibly say.

about this sport ever for any reason. But anyway, sorry for cutting you off. So anyways, I was just saying that I don't think we can criticize them. But yeah, and they even asked him, like in the Monday media availability, they said, like, isn't this, like, this isn't good for Bruce? And he was like, yeah, it's not good for anybody. Like, he had no, I want to know what Bruce Boudreau did to Joe. Rutherford at some point because I mean this has been going on for months like

yeah remember at the beginning of the like and I get like into the season you got a well I mean even even even going back to last off season right with the the option year and they were like no no go go go out and see what you can find yeah but then they they they bring him back and immediately they're like well look what I have hired the guy no and it's like what what's happening here I've never seen a team undermine a coach so much, especially a guy like Bruce Boudreau, who's had a ton of success in this league. I mean, say what you want about the job he's done in Vancouver.

I mean, it was, you know, seemed to do pretty well last year. They played at a hundred and something point pace after they hired him, right? Like, what other coach is going to have that level of success coming into this team with everything we know about it? But also, like, just period. Like how many coaches play at a hundred and six point pace for 75% of the season or whatever it is, right? It's, but but to my point earlier, like this is what Drant said and I agree. Like, you have to really kind of question like how the Canucks just treat people between the Tanner Pearson thing, between the Bruce Boudreau thing. Like, it's really, again,

like this is a league that prides itself on, you know, classy and all this shit. Like, you know, it prides itself on patting itself on the back about being classy. I get, I get, yeah, I mean, kind of the same thing. Like, it isn't, obviously, but like, it's always talking about how it is. And this is like, like you said, we've never seen something like this before, where the vultures have been circling this coach for basically since like the first two weeks of the season. So however long that's been. Four months, three months, whatever it is.

Like, I've seen coaches be dead man walking before. You know, I've certainly seen, you know, you've seen situations where you're going, yeah, you know what? They got three games left in this tough road trip, and they probably make the change after that, sure, I could see. And that's happened to Bruce Boudreau four times this year. Yeah, it's... Because they keep going, like, on a three-game winning streak,

and the team's like, well, we can't fire a coach on a three-game. And Bruce Boudreau, I mean, he's been around a long time. this is a well-like guy in the league. And the weird thing is, like, how many times do we say the NHL, right? It's like this old boys club. You know, same guy cycling in and out of job. Same guys looking out for each other. Like, you know, Rutherford Boudreau are two old boys.

I don't know what happened here. Well, there's an even more old boy from Rick Tocke, obviously, from Pittsburgh. There's your connection. Like, that's so hire him. Like, I mean, the thing is like, I totally agree. I like Bruce Bruegerow a lot as a coach. He's had a ton of success. He was very good in Vancouver last year.

But the way the season has gone this year. Bad. And, you know, especially with just the one year left on his contract. If you fire the coach here, nobody raises an eyebrow. Like, this is, he's been on the hot seat list. Right. Like, just do it two months ago when he had his second media availability. Where we know.

I can't ever remember knowing for an extended period who the next coach was going to be on a midseason coaching change. Like sometimes you hear a rumor and it's like the night before sort of deal. Well, the rumor is that Tocket had to give Turner four weeks notice or something like that. And that's what the holdup is. And so they decided a week and a half ago or whatever. And then like a month gets you basically around the all-star break is what people in Vancouver have said. I don't know if that's true. but like that would at least somewhat explain how they're like yeah we're going to drag this out for another few weeks why not fuck it season's over you know it's it's wild and i mean Bruce Brudrow is almost 70 years old like this might be it for him which kind of makes it even messier there is i mean the guy clearly loves coaching i mean he was before he got this job there there was

was, you know, he was kind of lobbying for, for job. Like, it was clear he wasn't done yet. Like, this is, this is what he does. This is what he loves. There is a part of me that wonders at some point, like, do you not have to just quit? And I know that's very, very easy for me to say sitting there. Yeah, but like if I'm 70, I've been through it for, I've been an NHL coach for 20 years. It's a high stress job.

You know, he clearly loves his grandkids and all that kind of stuff. and I got millions of dollars in the bank and I don't want to get treated like anything resembling this again I can totally like as much as like you say you know guys don't want to retire obviously I get that but at some point I'm just like fuck it man I got a bunch of money in the bank let me go spend my last 15 years whatever 20 years with my grandkids yep I it's after getting treated like this

Yeah, it's too much. Like, I mean, I'm kind of dancing around it saying, you know, other people might think, like, this is not okay. What Rutherford is doing here. What? And he seems to realize that. Like, Rutherford seems to realize,

oh, that's kind of fucked up anyway. Clock second on this talk and thing. Like, I mean, wouldn't any other team just say, like, okay, I mean, we're making a change. We're bringing an interim guy. Exactly. put one of the assistants in charge. Mike Yo is right there.

He has NHL experience. And if you have Mike Yo coach your team and then you replace him, you become amazing overnight. That's his history. I don't get it. Like it's, there's almost like a cruelty to it now at this point. Yes. Yes. Totally agree.

And yet, this is not even, it's probably like the worst aspect of the, the press conference, but it's not what, like, we're not done. We're not done because the other thing he says in this press conference is, we're not rebuilding. I don't like the term rebuilding. We're retooling. But then he says, I said earlier before that I thought this team needed minor surgery. It needs major surgery and, you know, the tone of that with the whole Tanner Pearson thing.

Maybe not, that's a phrasing issue. But just the fact that, like, he, now he. he's like, oh, you know what? I was wrong. It's worse than I thought. Yeah, no shit, dude. What are you talking about? And yet, like, how are you a million, a guy who gets millions of dollars a year to, like, evaluate this hockey team just now arriving at, oh, I think this team actually really sucks and has a lot of problems.

Yeah. And, and problems that he's saying can't fully be fixed because of the cap situation. Which he's not wrong about. he is correct that these problems cannot be fixed overnight or at all. I think I saw last night that they were saying like this team might have to retain salary. I think it was Rick Dollywall said last night. Like they're going to have to retain salary on Brock Besser if they want to trade him. Or they're going to have to get creative, which meet parentheses retain salary.

This is a guy they just signed. Like was it last summer? they re-signed him. Yeah, he's... Two summers ago. Two full years left on his deal. Yeah. So I...

That I believe... What I'm saying is I believe this regime re-signed him to this contract. I guess the... I guess the good news here if you're a Canucks fan is, at least, you have been waiting... You have been waiting for a few years

to hear somebody say, like, no, it's not good enough and it has to change and not... we're one more $3 million depth winger away from making the playoffs. And that's kind of my point about how this is so fucked up, right? Because they go out, they re-signed Bessor this summer. They re-sign J.T. Miller beyond this coming season this summer. They signed Ilya Mikhail this summer, right?

Like, they, five months ago, we're like, we're ready to compete. Yes. and they being Jim Rutherford and Patrick Alvin. Patrick Alvin, which, I mean, where's he? Geez, the... He had that disastrous Hockey Night in Canada appearance, and, like, he's just not allowed to speak publicly anymore. Okay.

Well... Is what it seems like. All right. I mean, look, it's... Hey, if Rutherford's going to take the bullets, that's fine. But I like if I'm a Canucks fan hearing somebody, you know, not do the Benning thing and say, yeah, it's messed. up. But then he says it's not a rebuild. It's a retool. And they don't want picks and prospects.

They want young NHL players that have not worked out on their, what was, do you have the exact quote where he, he was basically saying he wants young players that needed a new opportunity. Yeah. And so like, I guess to his. credit, he's saying, like, the Ethan Bear thing, which has worked out great for the Canucks. I think there's no denying Bear has been a very good addition to this Canucks team.

They also got Jack Stednikah this way. They got, oh, shit, what's his name? From Chicago. Riley Stillman. They got Riley Stilman. Travis Dermott. That's another guy. Travis Dermott falls into that category as well.

Does he? Is he moving the needle in Vancouver? But I guess that's my point. Are any of these guys moving the needle? Right? Like these are all good players who are helping the Canucks in theory, right? But collectively how many wins are those standings points or whatever? Goals above replacement. Are those guys worth over the guys they're getting rid of?

Not that man. Right. And what's the ceiling on those guys? Like what's the best case scenario? Because I know like, you know, you can get carried away with it. but when you get picks and prospects, the ceiling is higher. The floor is low. The floor could be nothing.

But in a league, you know, in a league where it's the elite skill that seems to drive it, it feels like you'd want to swing more. I've got to quote you. This is Jim Rutherberg. He says, my preference when we make these deals is not necessarily for draft picks that may come in and help the team four to five years from now. I prefer to get younger NHL players that maybe didn't work out in their entry-level contract and bring them in and give them a second chance. It's a risky strategy, man.

I mean, you go down the list of teams that have done a rebuild. He says he wants to call it a retool. Whatever you want to call it. You can't call it a rebuild if you're not trading for draft picks. Yeah, I mean, if I said, name me teams that trade at veterans and got draft picks or prospects that ended up being high impact contributors for them down the line, we could do the whole show on that. Like we would just be listing guys, you know, taken with picks and all, you know, for the hour. Guys that have come in on after not working out on their first team, I'm sure there's some guys on that list.

But, I mean, are you going out and getting a bunch of Tyler Saganz? Or are you just, like you say, aiming for Jackston Nicka type dudes? because that's not going to get you where you need to be. And the reality of it is, if you're trading for guys who haven't worked out on their team, what do you think you know about those guys that their team that drafted them, scouted them, worked with them, have been watching them every moment on the ice

for years and years and years and then decides we will move on from him? What are the odds that you're right and they're wrong? Yeah, and I mean, like the obvious example that's out there right now, and is, again, we'll talk about this a little bit more in a minute, guaranteed to get traded in the next little while here is Yasser Fully Ari, right? Sure. Absolutely getting run out of Edmonton. It's been a Bruce Boudreau-like process, let's say.

Yes. For Yessa in, in Edmonton. And some team, I feel like, is going to kind of get a guy that is a little more useful than the Oilers thought. And that's not, you know, that's not new with the oilers, right? Like, they traded Taylor Hall. They, you know, a season before he became the league's MVP, whatever. I just, I think this is a thing that teams that are already good can get away with, right?

Like, okay, we need to find a cheapish player that we can slot into our middle six or, you know, our middle pairing on defense or whatever. and, you know, if it works out great, if it doesn't, we're still going to be good. But if the Canucks strategy for getting this team back on track and, you know, competing for a playoff spot and all that stuff, like, if this is their strategy, I can't, I cannot stress to you enough that I, like, how much I think it's doomed to fail, right? And this is, when I say, like, team should be tanking all the time and people get, mad at me. Well, you can't have everybody just tanking all the time. Like, think about what the Canucks are doing here. This is what everybody is aiming for when, or not everybody, but like half the NHL is aiming for, we're going to be like right around the playoffs. We're, we're going to be, we're going to be like, not cup competitive, but

playoff competitive and maybe a little better than that or maybe a little bit worse than that. And this is again what the Canucks are aiming for. If they're saying, we're targeting these kinds of players with the understanding that, like, we got to trade Besser. We would love to trade Ekman Larson. You know, Bo Horvats gone from the organization. And I want to talk about the Bo Horvett thing in this.

Oh, yeah. We're still not done. We're still not done. That's right. You know, when he says, like, core guys might be gone. I think that might include Thatcher Demko. Right?

And with Besser, with Demco, with some of these other guys, you are selling them at the absolute lowest their value will ever be in this league. Right? You don't think like somebody trades for Brock Besser and Brock Besser suddenly has that 30-goal season. Everybody in Vancouver is pretending he can have there. Yeah.

For the last four or five years? A chunk of his salary. Yep. Sure. Because other teams are going to be able to put that guy in a position to succeed that the Canucks just can't because of their lineup issues. and their cap issues and stuff like that. Demko, obviously, having a nightmare season,

even if he wasn't injured, or before he was injured, the results just weren't there for him. And if they move on from him, like when he comes back healthier, or over the summer or whatever, there will never be a point in his career probably until he's like, you know, 36 years old, whatever it is, where you can get him for cheaper than, the Canucks are probably going to have to sell them for this summer,

if indeed they're going to sell him, right? And so, I don't know. Like, I just think, like, and this is the other thing, I guess I should say, Rutherford said, is that he said ownership hasn't interfered in any decisions he's made. Which, which in a way feels like bad news because. I, I, one hundred, like, that's worse. That's worse.

You, you did this all. on your own. Now, here's the thing. I think you can parse that sentence. I'll just read the quote directly to you here if I can find it again on the page. Ownership hasn't interfered with any decisions I've made. That's the direct quote. Okay. And I can parse that to be fairer to to Rutherford where management goes, this is what the mission is. You have to make all your decisions within those parameters. Right. And so in that way.

And then they don't interfere. Sure. Correct. And that's, that's just like if I'm trying to be fair to Rutherford, which the way things have gone in Vancouver, I don't think he has earned that. You know what I mean? But if I were trying to be fair to him, I would say, well, he's still being a company man.

And to the detriment of the team. And he's not managing up and all the things that like you're supposed to be. be able to do if you're a three-time cup winner who's been in the business since like 1974 or whatever. So, yeah, that to me is an astonishing

revelation that like we do want to make all these trades. We don't want to get any draft picks back for them because and this is the last thing I'll say on it, right? Like, remember when the Bruins retold? They had three drafts

picks in a row in the first round of the 2015 draft. They got rid of Dougie Hamilton and Milan Luchich, two guys who had been like, you know, Luchich was like an all star at that point. Obviously, they kind of got off the train

two, three seasons before it pulled into the station much worse for wear. And they got off the Hamilton train too early, quite frankly. But like, if you're going to retool, you make these like insanely difficult decisions.

Yeah. About like beloved guys, guys who have high ceilings, whatever. Like, if you're going to retool, you trade, you trade Quinn Hughes. If you're going to retool. Mm-hmm. And you want like roster players back. Because like, do you think Connor Garland's getting you a roster player that's making a fucking difference?

I don't see. I mean, I look at the Canucks roster, and this is not unique to Vancouver, but I see like two groups of guys. I see a few guys that I would not want to trade and I see everyone else that isn't going to get you much, which puts you exactly in that tough spot that you're describing. The guys you would want to keep are Horvett,

Pedersen, Hughes, that might be it. Honestly, Kuzmanko, I guess. And everybody else is like, yeah, you could go if you want to. That's fine. Like it. Let's put it this way. If everyone on the Canucks was an unrestricted free agent this summer and you're looking at this roster going,

yikes, this is bad. How many of those guys are you bringing back for any amount of money? Yep. That aren't the ones I just said. Ethan Baer, I guess, would be the other one and he's a pending RFA. And that's again, like you said, that's a nice success story. it's not Ethan Bear isn't moving the needle

on this team one way or another significantly The other thing about being Like wanting to target guys For 25 or 26 Again you're targeting like reclamation projects At the peak of there Of when they should be productive players

Like agent curves work so that Work in such a way that when you're 25 or 26 That's the best you're ever going to be By the time a guy has There about us by the time a guy is in the NHL finishing his ELC has been identified as an underachiever

they're probably pretty... I mean, there are guys who come into the NHL right away, maybe they're 21 or 22 at the time, but... And there are guys like Brad Marshand who peak when they're 27, 28, 29. But boy, you've got to sit there and think you've got some magic ability to figure those guys out.

Yeah, and again, this is a team with the 28th prospect pool by both the athletic and elite prospects. Both of our employers are like, no, we agree. The 28th best farm system in the entire league is Vancouver Canucks. A team that, by the way, has made the playoffs once in the last eight years.

And that was like the fake playoffs. Yep. Right? So like that team, again, the Bruins had three first round picks in like two years after they went to a cup final and then four years before they went to a cup final. and then four years before they went to another one.

The Carolina Hurricanes, do you know how many draft picks the Carol? Oh my God. The Hurricanes have had two drafts in the last like four or five years where they picked at least 12 players. In the eight years since the Canucks have been like bad, missing the playoffs all the time, that kind of thing.

They average 6.6 draft picks per draft. That's less than they give you. They give you seven at the beginning. of your draft. And the Canucks were like, we don't need all those. Yep. It's unfucking real. And this was with Jim, this was with Jim Benning who was supposed to be the draft guy, right?

Like that was what you were getting in him. Yeah. So the Bo Horvott thing. Rutherford basically says, he basically says we're not getting him signed, which I think we had figured out. Yeah. But the way he phrases it, like we gave him an office. it's the best we can do.

He wants more money than that. I don't blame him for wanting more money than that. And this is the way he phrased it that blew my mind. We made him an offer based on like his historical production. He wanted us to make an offer based on what he's doing this year, which he's absolutely having a, like a career year. Unbelievable season for Beau Horvett. Here's what Rutherford said.

We believe we've taken our best. shot and the contract we have on the table for Bo right now, I think, is a fair contract for what he's done up until this year. And up until this year, Bo Horvatt was a very good NHL player who was probably not quite in the superstar mode, a guy who does move the needle, but not an elite player. And also he's their captain. We should say he's their captain. Two-way player, all that stuff.

And Rutherford goes on to say, but it's certainly under market value for what he's done this year. And then just in case you forgot that Jim Rutherford was 70 years old, he says we're in a pickle here. He says he's had a career year, career run, and he's looking for his money and he deserves it. I don't blame him. But even with what we have on the table for him right now, without any changes, we're well over the cap. So he's basically saying it's not going to get done. He's saying, you know, we are... Prepare yourself for the Bo Horvatt, Tracy.

And he's also sort of suggesting that they feel that this is an outlier year for Bo Horvett, and I get that. Like, if a guy's got... Guess what? He's fucking right. He is one million percent right about that. And this is what I talk about all the time. If you think, if a guy is going off in his first year before UFA, you are probably smarter to move along from that. Right?

I think this is the right fucking call for that. quite frankly, to trade him for picks and prospects or name a 24-year-old you like in the NHL who the O. A team would be comfortable moving. Yeah. I think that's the right call. I don't disagree with it. However, they did not have that kind of restraint when it came to fucking J.T. Miller, who's season last year was even more of an outlier who's worse than Bo Horvett

and who's older than Bo Horvett. That's what's crazy about it. They didn't have this kind of restraint and like, well, we'll figure it all out later, kind of an approach. And I get it. They didn't want to go into this season with both of them unsigned pending unrestricted free agents. I get that. But again, if you're the Vancouver Canucks and you're just arriving at the, maybe we don't want to keep all these bums around.

That's a hell of a thing to say after you signed J.T. Miller for. seven more years or whatever the number is. Yep. At $8 million a pop. That's crazy. I'm with you and look, there is, there's the idea of sunk costs. They screwed up last summer.

That's done. You've got to start making the best decisions you can from here on in. Bo Horvatt is about to turn 28. Yeah. It's unlike. although not impossible that this season is a new level for him. You know, and I don't mean as far as that he's going to shoot 20% or whatever it is this year, but that, you know, that he has found a next step.

I mean, you know, we've seen it. I mean, you mentioned Marchand. You could look at, you know, how many of us thought the Tage Thompson contract was a bad idea in the summer? Because he'd only had one good year. and it turned out not only was that a new level. James Thompson's also like 24 years old or whatever. Yeah.

So like I get it, but yeah, they're going to move them. So, uh, and, and if they do, it's,

they should get a ton back. But if they're just trying to get, because here's the other thing. Like, you talk about how, okay, we can't, we can't sign,

we can't bring back our captain who's having a career year, who's the only bright spot on this, miserable season because of our cap. Yeah, but Patterson, you're right. We can't, because our cap is screwed. And it is because you sign Miller, because you still got Ekman Larson forever. Yeah, he's doing the hot dog man. Exactly.

And to be fair, Jim Benning is the guy who's wearing the hot dog colored suit in this scenario, right? Like, he, as bad as bad as I think Rutherford has done it, Rutherford and Alvin have done. So much of this is on Jim Benning. And again, it's in the pursuit of what Rutherford says he's pursuing now, which is being vaguely playoff competitive. Right. Which does seem to be what the owner wants and all of that.

The whole organization is a mess. But here's the thing. To say we want guys who are finishing up their ELC, I mean, if you get picks and prospects to state the obvious. It's not a lot before those guys. But to state the obvious, if you get picks and prospects for Bo Horvite, those guys don't impact your cap for the next year or two because they're not in the NHL. And then when they do, they're on their ELC. You get a guy who's coming off as ELC.

I mean, even a guy who's an underachiever, you're paying that guy two or three million probably. It's, you know, unless they've been an enormous bust. Look at the Pooley-E-RV contract, right? Exactly. Yeah. Three and a half. Exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, how is that making your cap situation better? Like, to me, of anything, you know, I want younger guys. I want higher ceiling guys. But just even if I consider those guys equal to the Bo Yardavis of the world, I want the guy who's going to be cheaper because I've just said that my cap is a mess.

Bo Horvatt for Alexis LaFranier, who says no. Probably the Rangers capologist, I think. I was going to say the Canucks, he's not old enough yet. We need another couple of years before we figure out whether this guy's really any good. Yeah, I think you're definitely going more for Capo-Caco there. Get that extra year of experience. There you go, yeah, for sure. Oh, wait, hold on, hold on. I'm being told Capo-Cago had a good shift in his last game.

So he's back, baby. He's back. It's all good. We're all set. Again, this is why I always say like 10 teams should be trying to, win something in this league every year and and 22 should be tanking for like this reason because you get stuck in this mindset of like we're we're three veterans away from from really getting into the playoffs for the first time in in six years or whatever or or you know you're doing the

the the predators thing and going on the other side where you're like all we need is to just like hang on for another year or two and then we can look at where we are so anyway that's I guess that's all I have on the Canucks, but like this is a fucking, and we did talk about them for like 40 minutes straight. So, but this is a disaster. And it doesn't seem like it's getting better anytime soon. No. And has the potential to get worse because the Boudreau thing is still hanging there. They have to make these trades.

Oh, and that's the other thing. Like, why would Bo Horvett or anybody at this point except a hometown discount? No, of course. With the way they're treating people in that organization. the way they're not, like, holding themselves accountable or what, you know, I hate, like, using that term for something that's stupid, but you know what I mean. And, yeah, it's, it's truly amazing. The only good news is they are currently sixth in the lottery standings and certainly could

realistically, I think, pass San Jose or have San Jose, past them. Could, I don't see Arizona. I mean, they're close in points to Arizona, but the coyotes are just full on tank mode. And then you're not going to, I don't think you're going to get to the big three. But, and, you know, not only is this an amazing draft,

but there's a hometown kid waiting at the end of it. I guess that's the whole thing you latched on to. It's like an outspoken Canucks. Yeah. Like, loves the jock. has talked about them glowingly in the last like 12 months. Although I guess he has said Tanner Pearson is his favorite player. Yeah, something he said that my dream is to walk into the room and give Tanner Pearson a firm handshake.

That's all I've ever wanted to do. I'm not joking though. Like he said Tanner Pearson is his favorite play. That's awesome. I love that. I did, like I said, I think I've mentioned this before, but I had somebody, you know, not not, I'm not telling some big insider story here, but I had somebody early in the season

when I made a comment about Bruce Boudreau. He's getting fired, right? And they said, no, he's not getting fired. And I said, well, they don't seem to like him very much. And the person said, yeah, they like him so little that they're going to keep him around because this is the stealth tank. And I wonder if that's just part of it.

Like we're going to let Bruce Brewd twist in the wind because we don't want to risk some interim guy coming. in and actually flipping a switch and making us... So go Mike Yo until the end of the year. You're right. What are we talking? Oh, you know what? I was wrong.

It's not Tanner Pearson. It was Tyler Mott, a guy they gave away for nothing, basically. So there you go. Tyler Mott is his favorite... I thought it was Tanner Pierce. What the hell? I was right around it. How were you Connor Bidard?

And you're like, that's my guy right there. Well, what's he going to be? like, oh, you know, my favorite player is Carr McDavid. Like, I'd be going like, oh, I'm much better than Carmen McDavid. That guy stinks actually. You know, like, I'd need that competent. Tyler Mott doesn't pose a threat to anything for

Connor Badaard. Whereas if he's like, oh, my favorite player is Sidney Crosby. It's like, well, then you've got to live up to being Sidney Crosby. He's already Tyler Mott, you know what I'm saying? Like, in terms of how, anyway. Let's quickly talk about Seattle,

then take a break. They lost last night to the Edmonton Oilers, the team that we said last week was bad. Yep. And they went like three and one. They're good now. They're good now. And they got a Vander Taine back.

Hey, good for them. But yeah, so Seattle's on a hell of a heater right now. You know, they're, they, they, I think the staff, was no team had ever gone 7 and 0 on a road trip in the NBA or the NHL before Seattle did it last week. Pretty good. It's absolutely, oh, it's absolutely nuts. And especially because this is, this is a real stat that Jonathan Willis, also of the athletic, put out there last night that, like, I can't believe it's true, but here it is. Over his last six, uh, over his last six, 16 appearances,

Martin Jones went 12-1-1 with an 879 save percentage. I mean, if it's 1987, that's a pretty good run. Today, it's wild. How is this team scoring like crazy? So I wrote about this over the weekend. Basically, the answer is they were a very good fight. on five team, like their top 10 and most of the underlying numbers or thereabouts, you know, top 12, and most of the underlying numbers at five on five.

Their power play is abysmal, but it is scoring at like a, like a below average rate, but it's not like, they're getting, let me, I guess, I guess I'll say this. They're getting lucky to be only slightly below the league average in on their power play, um, according to like expected goals and stuff like that. and then their P.K. is abysmal. Like, it's horrible, in part because, you know, their goalies are Martin Jones and Philip Grubauer. Mm-hmm. But they're a good five-on-five team that also has the highest team shooting percentage in, like, the Cappy era, basically.

Yeah. So, like, they're good, but with bad goal tending and, like, unbelievable. shooting. I do love how, like, I feel like when they beat Boston, when they went into Boston and snap the streak of no regulation losses for the Bruins on home ice, like, that felt like the tipping point where people were like, this is, this seems for real. And that's when everyone sort of said, okay, let's actually look at this. And then everyone pointed at the shooting percentage and went, ah, there's no way. And they go out in Chicago. And they score, six goals on their first seven shots.

Yeah. Like after we all go, yeah, shooting percentage, unsustainable, it's just a heater. No, no, I guess they just go out there and they go video game mode. Like, is that good? They can play Peter Morazic every night for the rest of the season. I'm willing to say this shooting's percentage is sustainable. Mm-hmm. Or hell, turn around and shoot on Martin Jones.

Same idea. Yep. Right? But, I mean, and, and I, and I, I, I, I guess I should say Jones included in that 879 run had like a two and a half game shutout streak or something like that. So like that actually makes it even worse than all the other games we're talking about. But yeah, I obviously it is my my sworn duty as a guy who does not watch the games and you can't make me watch the games. to look at this and go,

this isn't going to, this isn't going to last, right? But again, they're good at five on five. The problem is that like, if you have a slightly below average power play and a way below average penalty kill, that's going to catch up with you. Yeah, and it doesn't matter how good you are at five on five.

Yeah, and we always say, well, you know, when you get to the playoffs, they don't call penalties, but they do. There are power plays and the playoffs. And actually, there are, again, that's like totally fake. There are more penalties called per 60 minutes in the playoffs than in the regular season. Right. But, you know, so a lot of those are like offset, whatever.

I don't need, we don't need to get into all that. But all I guess all I'm saying is this team isn't going to score 3.7 goals per game all season. I don't think that's telling tales out of school. To look at a team with like Jordan Everly, Andre Burakowski, Vince Dunn, Jared McCann. guys who I like to a man Every one of those players I like a lot But those aren't guys where you're like And obviously that's a team that can shoot the lights out all season long

Right like Maddie Baneers is maybe a different story Yanni Gord's another guy Wow he's really good But like You know If you have if you have like two and a half second lines Which is what I would argue Seattle does You can probably win a lot in the

regular season with that. I don't know that you can win anything in the playoffs with that. Like the matchups are just going to kind of gobble them up once the playoffs roll around. Yeah, maybe. But again, they could get the Kings in the first round. Yeah. And boy, you want to talk about a team with bad goaltending right now. Yeah.

Yeah. Look, Phoenix Copley is playing well for them, but he is Phoenix Copley. So what do you want me to say? But yeah, I'm looking at the list here. there are 13 guys with at least 20 points on the, on the cracking right now. That's a lot. It's wild.

Yeah. I did not see this coming in any way at all. Mm-mm. I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. A bunch of times and I don't know, man. I look at that west and it seems pretty open to me. I would say there's a door a jar for them. I think it's maybe a little bit more than the jar, but yeah.

Well, I mean. Not the favorites. But no. And so the thing is, I think their first round opponent is either Edmonton or L.A. And I saw it, you know, I saw it the Oilers. I can't, it was somebody on the Puck Soup Discord, I think, posted like a click hole headline that was like, we put a hawk in a room with a rabbit and it went exactly how do you expect. And then they were like, but it, but instead of a hawk and rabbit, it's Connor McDavid and Martin Jones. Yep. You know, and like I think, I, I think, like, L.A. is obviously the team you're, you're looking to play if you're Seattle. Although they, you know, they could pass Vegas now that Mark Stone's out, you know. Yeah, they absolutely could, which, which again could bounce them to L.A. or Eminton or maybe, maybe Calgary.

I mean. But it's, like, good for them. I'm glad because, you know, there were articles at the beginning of the year going like, yeah, if they're not good, this year, I don't know how the market's going to react to them. Like, will people just give up on the Cracken? And, like, those people know Seattle better than I do. So, I, you know, I don't know. Probably they wouldn't have, would be my guess,

but, like, still, it's not good to have two bad seasons in a row. And now they're having a very nice season for themselves. So, like, that's good. It's just a question of, you know, do they do the thing that all the other PDO teams in the league have done forever, which is like, oh, they're, they're really

good for the first like 55-60 games and then there's the rest of it, right? I'll leave it at this. They're all situations PDO right now is 102.3 with 889 goaltending. So that tells you how outlandish the shooting is. Yeah.

That's it. And you know, this stuff is never sustainable over the long, long term, but sometimes it does sustain over season. Like I said, it wouldn't shock me at all if they'd still do it. It would shock me if they're still shooting 12 point whatever percent at the end of 82 games, just like teams can't do that. But if they do it for another 20, 25, yeah, that's plausible to me.

Okay. So yeah, that's all I got on that. Why don't we take a break? We'll be right back. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by Athletic greens and folks, what do I always say? I gave AG1 to try because they sent it to me. And before that, I'd never really thought about getting involved with this kind of thing. But now I take AG1 in the morning before starting my day or whatever and makes me feel a little more hydrated, energetic,

that sort of thing. Just like a nice way to start the morning. So, you know, it's really, it's really worked for me. The other thing is, too, that, like, part of the reason I was always a little skeptical of this sort of thing is like, I don't want to have to take like 50 different pills, right? It's hard to like keep up with all these different supplements and that kind of thing because there's so many products you don't know which ones to buy. You don't know which ones you need. All that sort of thing. This took the guesswork out of it. You know what I mean?

Like why take a bunch of different things? I mean, you can just have like one scoop of powder that you dump in a glass of water every day, swish it around. And that's it. You know, it makes it a lot simpler. And because they're delivering AG1 to me every month, You know, they keep the supply going. They make it nice and easy for me to get involved with it and keep up the routine, basically.

So if you're looking for an easier way to take supplements, Athletic Greens is giving you a free one-year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to athletic greens.com slash puck. That's athletic greens.com slash puck. Check it out. All right, we're back. We've got to talk about the Bruins signed

to Pavell Zaka to an extension. I should have had this in front of me and I don't. I believe it's four years, 4.5. 4.75. 4.75, so close and yet, so far. Nice number for all involved.

I think that's about right. I think he's a good player, but he's not a superstar player. And he probably would have gotten more on the open market. I think he was a pending RFA, but, you know, obviously they signed him into his UFA days, so good for him. But it does leave open the question of how are they going to make this Pasternak thing work.

Any signing they make that isn't Pasternak is, especially since, remember, next year, there will be bonuses from Bergeron and Creachy. They sign them to those 35 plus deals where you can. can basically give easily achievable bonuses that kick some of the cap into the following year. I think we talked about it with the Pavelsky contract next week or last week where they go, oh, you just got to play like 10 games. We'll give you a million dollars. Right. Which was done sort of at the time made you feel like that was potentially a signal that this is Bergeron and maybe Creechie's last seasons.

I mean, they both been good. Bergeron's been very good, so maybe that isn't the case. But, yeah, it is going to be tough to fit it all together. Now, that said, you can find a way. They do still have a lot of guys coming off the books next year. Not a huge amount of money, but... They currently have 12 guys signed for 61.6, 61.7, something.

Like Nick Falino will be gone... Craig Smith, that that's 7 million right there. Yeah, the bigger issue is they got a, Pastornak, obviously, like, I think everybody kind of agrees it's going to be around 11 million for eight years. That, I mean, the way he's playing, he might blow past 11. That's the thing. Like, I asked, well, I put, I had a column where I said, like,

if you're a Bruins fan, if David Pasternack says, I want to be the highest paid player in the league. I want $12.6 million and $1. Or I hit UFA. I'm not saying that that conversation has happened or would happen, but hypothetically. If you're the Bruins,

you got to say yes to that. I think you do, because he's getting that in unrestricted for you. I mean, for sure. Panarin got like, what, 115 a few years ago? Like, So, yeah, I mean, and I know everybody, it's because it's the Bruins, everyone says, no, no, he's going to take less.

He's going to, all our players take less. Charlie McAvoy didn't take less. Yeah. And you know what? Brad Marchand didn't take less. Brad Marchand signed a reasonable deal for where he was at, at that point in his career. And he happened to blow past it. You know, Bergeron maybe took a little less.

Pasternak, same deal. I mean, he had had one good year when he signed that contract. And now it comes to. Now, it's very possible they could, you know, maybe they win a cup. Maybe they go on a deep run and fall just short. And maybe he says, you know what, I will take less to keep the group together. That's possible. It's also possible.

He says, I took less last time. I spent three years hearing about how incredibly cheap my contract was, I'm not taking a dollar less than I need. We don't know. We're not part of that. But all we can do is sort of sit there and go, what's fair? And I think if you're a Bruins fan and you're just assuming it's going to come in a couple million bucks lower just because of the power of the logo or something, maybe. Like I said, I would set my floor at 11 million and kind of maybe anticipating something comes in a little higher than that. Yeah.

The only reason is, I'm not joking, this is something that like people think is real. 11 times 8 is 88 That's the number he was No joke Yep Yep You know what That's a great point

So make it 11.11 There you go 88 88 88 We got it there That's fine But with that All having been said Like the thing

That the Bruins will need to do this summer Is figure out a way To get say Craig Smith Who doesn't even cost a lot of money But like Craig Smith Is replaceable for cheaper than what he well no I guess he's a pending UFA

isn't he who am I think oh Mike Riley I believe is a guy that obviously he's been kind of back and forth between the AHL and the NHL and they kind of want to move on from him but like the guy that I'm really targeting is like we got to get this guy off the team

and I think he's having a nice year for himself but the answer is Charlie Coyle and he does have a modified no trade 10 team no trade list somebody's going to want Charlie Coil and you know maybe it's Arizona hell maybe three more years

wow yeah I didn't realize he was yeah no he's he's expensive and like he's just not worth it he wasn't worth it the day they signed that deal um and that's you know again he's having a good season for them but it's just like

inefficient allocation of cap dollars when this team is going to be in desperate need of of whatever space they can find, really. Derek Foreboard's another guy that they would probably love to move on from because he's on the books for 3 mil next year. And Jeremy Swamondon needs a new contract is the other thing. You know how I said that Pastor NAC should be the highest paid player?

And for the record, I'm not saying he's the best player in the league. I'm just saying when he's hitting the market. The way, yeah. The best player in the league is rarely the highest paid player. You mentioned the $88 million. How about this? 88.88, you know what that is divided by seven years? What's that? 12.69.

Basically 12.7 million, which puts him just over Nathan McKinnon. Yeah. And he can have his fancy, wonderful number that he likes. Hockey players like that shit. Who knows why? They really do. So yeah, I guess I don't have much more about much more to say about it until the contract actually happened. Let me ask you this.

Is there any chance in your mind that he hits UFA, like hits the open market? There's like a, you know, a 10% chance. Okay. Just because like if the Bruins are trying to play hardball and he's like, no man, I want to cash in. And I think that's a totally, like a totally, totally reasonable thing for him to pursue. Then, yeah, but I just, I think he wants to stay with the Bruins. People I've talked to say he wants to stay with the Bruins. And it's just a matter of getting the numbers.

I have a theory that I made up that says his stuff is there in Boston. And the other thing I think is like, I think part of it might be when Bergeron's gone, I want to be the captain. That might be it. And, you know, I think we all might have said maybe like McAvoy or somebody like that. But like if I'm the Bruins, I don't have a problem with David Pasternak being the captain. If that saves me a bit of money or something, yeah. Well, I mean, if it just gets me the player.

Yeah. You put whatever letter you want on the front of your jersey. You want to put a Q on there, go nuts. Well, maybe not a Q. That's a, uh-oh. But you want to put like a T on there? Whatever. That's fine.

You want to put a C? A? Anything. I salute you, David Pasternak. But that would just be my big take on Pasternak there. Like, that's just a player that I'm desperate to retain. If I'm doing the Bruins thing or the Canucks thing or whatever of going like, we never rebuild. if you lose David Pasternak for nothing,

that's a disaster for your future. And obviously, like, it's a PR disaster too. But, like, that's just a player. You flat out can't replace. And I think we should be clear. We're saying this because, you know, I could imagine people going like, oh, yeah, so, you know, you're saying that about Pasternak,

but with J.T. Miller, you're mad that they, that they signed him. Well, he's also like three years younger than James. He's younger and he's a different level of player. Like he is an absolute elite like, yeah, yeah, subscribe for more hot takes. Yes, he's, he is. He is an MVP candidate this year. In a season where there are like six guys where it's like, he is having an MVP caliber year, David Pasernak is undeniably having an MVP caliber year for the best team in the league without question. S-tier player, we would say. Whereas that's the thing.

Not even close to you do whatever it takes to re-sign the S-tier guys. You don't do that for whatever, whatever letter you want to put on J.T. Miller, even coming up for a great year. Upper B, I would say. Yeah, upper B tier for J.T. Miller. But, yeah. So that's all I wanted to say. But here is some contract extension news here. Matt Boldie, seven by seven.

to stay in in Minnesota. I think this is a very nice little deal for the wild. Yeah. Not without risk, but yeah, I think this one has some solid potential to look like a win in not all that long, which is when you sign a long-term deal. I mean, again, I'm stating the obvious here, but there are so many times where you see teams sign these long-term deals. and you go, like the downside is obvious.

What's the upside? Like, it feels like the upside is you get fair value. And that shouldn't be the best case. There should be a best case where the contract works out great for you, a worst case where it doesn't. And then fair value is somewhere in the middle. And that feels like, to me, fair value maybe even is a little tilted towards the wild side,

even as it's certainly not guaranteed. Yeah, I think Boldie's maybe something like a six, six and a half million dollar player right now I really like him a lot and obviously he's what 22, 23?

No, he's not, he's 20, he will be 22 in April. So like to get this guy locked in until his 28th birthday basically for a thing that I think he's roughly worth now, again, maybe like a little under that I think this is a really nice bit of business for the wild.

And for Matt Boldie, like, he's going to have a year or two where he's making more than he, quote, unquote, should. And then a few where he's, like, making fair value. And then maybe a few where he's getting ripped off a little bit. And I think that's totally fair. Like, if you're a player, like, obviously there is a difference between making seven million and $8 million. And it's not a small one, even though it kind of sounds marginal.

But like, you know, seven million living in Minnesota is not seven million living in New York City or Vancouver, you know? So I like it for everybody involved. It's a player I like. And this is what I want to say about it, though. Maybe the wild are going to get out of this cap hell thing in pretty good shape after all. because they only got two more years of it after this one. Yeah.

I mean, they're managing it this year. It does look like they're going to have to trade Matt Dumba because they're just not going to be able to retain him this summer. Yeah, that feels like it's sort of been baked in for a while now. Yeah, this is the fourth year of Matt Dumbas getting traded. But with that having been said, like... Like, they have caps. now.

Like, it's, it's, it's just they can't re-sign him in the side. And so, like, they could keep him as, like, an own rental, a term I hate. But, like, they could do it, and that would, that would make perfect sense to me. But if they can move him for, say, a yes, a Poyaharvi, who can, who can maybe be like a reclamation project and then pocket the other money and maybe use that to leverage, uh, a bigger trade for a guy who helps more this year. Mm-hmm. That makes perfect sense to me.

Yep. Or maybe you just get a, maybe you don't get a first round pick, but you get a nice second round pick this year, given what we know about this draft. You might be able to get a first-round pick for him. It doesn't feel unreasonable for... I just think teams are going to be...

I think teams are going to be reticent to trade their first round picks this year. Well, I mean, it'd be... of more the optics than anything else. I mean, it would be protected. But like, I mean, did Anaheim got a first for Josh Manson, didn't they? Or did they, no, it was a second and a prospect.

Yeah. Okay. I mean, that, I guess we'll see. But yeah. Yeah. Lottery protected for sure. But yeah, who knows? The 2024 draft ain't looking too bad either, folks.

There's a little preview. No, obviously not like this one. Mm-hmm. But really good. The kid that they think is going to first overall Macklin Celebrini going to

BU next year, I believe. They're saying this kid's fucking dynamite. Place for Chicago in the USHL, if I'm not much mistaken.

But yeah, they're saying like this kid is another like top top tier. Again, not Connor Bedard, but like if he was in,

if he was, you know, draft eligible last season would have been the first overall pick. That kind of thing. Like that level player. So yeah.

I like where the wild are at with all this and I didn't think I would be able to say that and I did say I thought I feel like I said I thought like their problems were overstated just because they had so many guys locked in but yeah here we are right so they look like they're fine

which again $13 million in dead cap money or whatever it is. And it's like, oh yeah, no, they're actually one of the best teams of the Western Conference. Well, I mean, they're, they're, they're not home and clear as far as the playoffs, but they are, but they started slowly. Lately, they have become one of the best teams in the Western Conference. Had some good stretches, yeah. Yeah, is how I guess I would frame it. But, yeah, they're, they look comfortable in that third spot in the division, if nothing else.

So yeah, anyway. One other thing I wanted to talk about is Paul Maurice last night went off on the refs. The refs killed us last night. It was, yeah, so this was in the game against the Leafs, which was a very weird game. Lots of penalties, like chippy, but it was a tough one to describe. It was just a bit of a mess. One that, you know, it's a tough one for the officials. and I think the Leafs ended up having seven power plays in the game.

But both teams were mad at the red. There was a really weird situation with like a stick being shot around that they gave the Panthers a penalty, then pulled the guy out of the box, gave the Leafs a penalty. There was a penalty shot that the Leafs got. A whole mess and Maurice sort of strongly implied that this was a result of a history, that he has with an official who kicked him out of a game in 2016.

So he's saying this is a seven-year-old grudge. And this guy, I guess, was picking this mid-season game. So this is one of those things where, hey, if I'm a Panthers writer, and hell, you know, I guess I could be a Panthers writer for 20 minutes later today. but you just go back and look at every game there's that like scouting the refs thing go back and look at every game that ref whoever kicked him out of that game in 2016

go back and look the history of those games that like that ref has coached with Paul Maurice and see if that's a real thing or if it's just like he's mad about this one fucking game and and like that's free content that's easy that's easy. shit for you. It's going to take you, you know, half an hour of work or whatever to figure this out easy. But the one thing I want to say about this, because I was watching this game and, you know,

I didn't, I didn't watch that game going, boy, the refs are really like, they're screwing up a little bit, I guess, but like, I just kind of assume that's baked into every game you watch where, like, someone's going to be mad about the refs 95% of game. Yeah, right. Yeah, this one more so just because there was more opportunity. But as a Leafs fan, I could cherry pick a bunch of stuff to show why they were the team getting screwed. Sheldon Keith complained about the Leafs earlier this year. Darrell Sutter complained, or the refs earlier this year.

Darrell Sutter complained about the refs, all in Toronto, right? This all happens in Toronto. And I saw, I think it was, it was. Ken Campbell, X of the hockey news, was like, all anybody is talking about in the press box here at the Leafs game is how bad the refs are both ways. And at the time he tweeted it out, the Leafs were losing. And so the joke I thought of immediately and didn't tweet out due to personal growth was,

yeah, everybody complains about the rest when their favorite team is losing. Yeah. Good for you. Look at you making progress. I mean, I said it. Make sure you don't say it on the podcast, though, because that would kind of negate it. but yeah so like that's that's kind of a thing that I've really gotten very fucking sick of lately which is hearing about the refs period I never want to hear about the refs ever again

just assume they're bad just assume they're going to be bad and if they're good great and if they're not good well you know what like it's one game out of 82 I got really bad news for you fucking hear. About all hockey fans in media. No, for sure. But like, the media especially, what do you give a shit? Like, I get why Paul Maurice complained about it. I think it's cry baby loser shit, but like, I get it.

You know? Um, I don't know. I just like, the amount of times I've heard about the refs this season. And like, look, I, you know, last, we've, we've had stuff on this podcast. about like they got to call like the rulebook as it is, right? The penalties are or non-calls are getting ridiculous, blah, blah, blah. But like in individual games, I just, I'm just, this year, I'm like, okay, everybody, we got to, we got to get together and decide we're going to chill out about this.

I'm with you, but there is. It's obviously not going to happen. As we get towards the playoffs, no, I, I would love to see what, you know, to go to someone and say, show me a well-officiated game, please. Show me a game that you think is... And it's one where both teams get one power play.

Yeah. Or it's one where all the calls go their teams away. Sure. Yeah, oh, yeah. Last night, I'm sure Sheldon Kipp was like, I thought the rest did a great job. They gave us seven power plays. That really worked for me.

Thank you. You know. Yeah. So it's, it's, I'm with you, but this is... 19 shots on a goal. You gave up five goals on 19 shots. And you're like... the ref fucked us tonight.

Yeah. Yeah. You got a 4-2 lead when you scored on like four of your eight shots on a goal. You got pulled and then you blew the lead. Yeah. Yeah. But this is, you're right. Like this is now, this is now part of like NHL culture is constant.

Constant. You know, the rep should have to actually be talking to the reporters after the game. Shut the fuck up. Who cares? It's one game out of 82. You know, like, the reason they, like, they do it in the NBA is because, like, they're, there are, like, 8,000 fouls called in every NBA game. And the NBA, correct me if I'm wrong, like, the NBA will make a statement if they feel like. Yeah, they call it like a two-minute report.

Yeah. And, and, yeah, I'm at God, imagine the NHL ever doing that. Your beef is with the NHL for not wanting to throw the officials under the bus. But also your beef is with the nature of the sport of hockey. Like, there are, you know, I'm an NFL fan in the old cliche that there's holding on every play. There are five penalties on every shift in the NHL. Yes. So, you know, the real psychos are the ones who want, like, just call the rulebook, call everything.

Okay. We're going to play the entire game three on three. Right. I say this all the time, right? as a as a guy who doesn't watch the NFL when I look at Twitter on Sunday every fucking five minutes there's just like six people

that's a fan of any given team who are like no way that's pass interference how's that not passing or is that not roughing the passer you know all this shit every fucking five minutes like it's insane but you know what's so great about the NFL is they have both the major networks I mean, there's a lot that's really great about the NFL.

Both the major networks have a guy, a former official, on standby, watching every game who comes in and says, here's what's going on with this play. And sometimes they say, yeah, they blew it. Yeah, that is pass interference. That should have been called. And sometimes they say, here's what they're looking at. If there's a replay, the guy comes in, he almost always gets, predicts the call correctly. And it just, you know, people still complain about the refing,

but to have somebody come on and be like... They do that every once in a while in the NH. Yeah, and half the time they're wrong, right? Yeah, well, and the thing is too, they're like, okay, what they're looking for here is to see whether this guy's skate blade was one millimeter offside. Mm-hmm. On the, like that, because they're not going,

well, look at this replay. You see that stick in the guy's hands? That's hooking. Yeah. You can't do that. Like, they're not going that because the game's so fast. Like, in the NFL, there's 40 seconds, were more baked into between every single play.

Like, that's just how the fucking sport works. And so it lends itself to that, whereas it doesn't in the NHL. It's just by, unless there's a, there's a goal that may or may not need to be reviewed, and then the officials give every team four and a half minutes to figure out whether that's, every team except the flyers because they don't have iPads anymore. Yeah, all right. Well, anyway, that's my little bit on, uh, ref complaining.

But that was me. There you go. Crow referee. Ryan agrees with Gary Betman. The NHL has the best officials in the world. I agree with Gary Betman on so much stuff. Yeah, you two are really honestly. We're tight.

Yeah. Joined at the hip, as they might say. All right. We'll take another break. We'll be right back. This episode of Puck Soup is sponsored by BetterHelp. When you're at your best, you can do great things. But sometimes you're not at your best.

life can drag you down. You might feel overwhelmed. There's too much on your plate. Or maybe just like you're not showing up in the way that you want to. And working with the therapist can be one way to help get you closer to that best version of you. I know a lot of people who have gone down this path, tried this out, and had very positive things to say. and very positive about all sorts of issues and obstacles that therapy can help with. It doesn't just have to be the big things.

It doesn't just have to be those catastrophes that, unfortunately, life does throw at all of us. You don't have to wait for that moment to see if there's maybe not a way that talking to someone can help you be a better version of yourself. So if you're thinking of giving therapy a try, BetterHelp is a great option. It's convenient, flexible, affordable, and it's entirely online. So if you're not comfortable with the idea of meeting somebody face-to-face, sharing that space with them, then this could be a great option. You just fill out a brief questionnaire. You get matched to a licensed therapist. You can switch therapists anytime for no additional charge.

So if you want to live a more empowered life, therapy can help get you there. visit betterhelp.com slash puck today and get 10% off your first month. That's better help, help.com slash puck. All right, we're back. And, well, it's the part that I kind of didn't want to talk about very much here. But it's Ivan Pro-O-Rov last night refuses to take part in warm-ups because it was Pride Night at the Flyers games. They had like rainbow. numbers on their shirts and that kind of stuff and pride tape and all that.

And he's like, nope, I don't want to do that. It goes against my religion. John Tortorella was like, I respect that. Enjoy sitting out for warm-ups. You will be playing tonight. And everybody's very mad about it. And I get why, obviously, everybody's very mad about it. I guess I should say my first reaction was, I'm surprised this is the first.

time it's happened, given that this is the NHL. But yeah, what were your thoughts? Just, uh, hit the ground run in here. Well, I mean, I've, I've got, I've got two thoughts. Uh, I think, uh,

Provarov is a, he's a bigot. Uh, and I've got zero time for that. Um, yeah. And basically, you know, uh, screw him and, and people who think like him. that said, I don't have a huge issue with him not participating if he doesn't want to participate and him being allowed to play.

I don't want a situation where these sorts of events and these sorts of statements being made by the league and the team are these mandatory things. I would rather allow a player to say, no, I'm not going to take part. and potentially, in my mind, make it more meaningful that everyone else is, you know, rather than being forced. I know there's been a lot of, you know, people always throw around like, what if it was, what if it was the other side? What if it was a pro-military night or a back-the-blue night or something like that? And a player didn't want to participate in that. You know, people would have the, I would have the same view.

they have he has a right to not participate he has a right to deal with the consequences of that which is that everyone now knows who he is and what he believes and people are like extremely mad at him and like yeah which they're allowed to it's you don't you don't have the freedom of speech to put your own bigotry into the world but i don't have the freedom of speech to call you a bigot i've got and that's again like I don't doubt for a moment, like you said, that there are players in the league who feel the same way that are just putting on the rainbow jersey and going through the motions.

The things that players in this league believe, I think, would shock people. Yeah. But maybe not shock, but it would make people very upset. Like, the odds that your favorite player or a guy on your team that you really like or whatever believe some really, like, stuff that you would find unbelievable,

how could he think that, blah, blah, blah, blah, guaranteed that's going on. I don't know how else to put it to you. Like,

there is somebody who you really like as a player who seems really cool and fun and nice and he's funny on Twitter or whatever. And he's got like some really nasty

beliefs that you don't agree with at all. That's guaranteed to be true. So now again, it's rare that guys do the ProVrov thing and go like fully

mask off with it. And like, you know, say what you want about Tony DeAngelo. Tony DeAngelo was out wearing the fried jersey, right? So, like, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff that like, you can hold both things in your, in your, in your head at once. Yeah. Kind of. So I, I, I, I, I think he has the right to show his whole ass to the world.

And he did. And I guess the other thing I'd say is, and you know what, and everyone else has the right to boo him every time he touches the puck for the rest of his career if they want to do it. And you know what? People even have the right to cheer him if they actually agree with him. People have that right. You have the right to be wrong. And if you're, if you've got a problem with gay people, you're wrong. Like that's just it's not your opinion.

You're just flat out wrong, but people do have a right to be wrong. To do it the other way, right? To be like, okay, if you are, if you are pro, LGBTQ plus, you know, any, anything, there are people who find that morally repugnant. There just are. And so, like, to get into, like, what's morally right, what's morally wrong, you want to talk about, like, rainbow capitalism. And, like, they're just doing this because it's a nice thing to do and it helps sell jerseys or whatever. Like, you know, banks. do this shit, whatever.

All of this, again, all of this can be true at the same time. And here is the thing, this was my thing that I was just like, I cannot fucking believe that this happened. This is what I truly can't believe. How many times out of a thousand do you think a player would go to John Tortorella and say, yeah, I'm not taking warmups tonight? And John Tortorella is like, okay, see a fair puck drop then. how many times out of a thousand do you this has to be the one time out of a thousand yeah that that this would ever happen now like you said the military the military uh appreciation night there's a guy who doesn't agree with that you know like for what for

what any reason back the blue night whatever that someone's like that's gross to me i'm not doing that i'm not wearing a fucking camo jersey you know uh uh that to me, like I'd be like, oh, I get why that guy's doing that. That makes a lot of, I agree with that guy,

frankly. But John Tortorella would be like, you're never playing for me again, period, in all likelihood. Well, okay, in fairness,

John Tortorrella, famously in 2016, when the Colin Kaepernick stuff was going on, said that anybody who didn't, who tried to kneel for the anthem, he would kick him off the team or whatever it was. And walked that back sort of, mostly. Mostly.

In 2020, in the bubble when, you know, the George Floyd and Black Lives Matter was happening and the league was making statements, he, I would say, had some comments that to me seemed actually thoughtful. It wasn't just like, I see which way the wind's blowing, so I walk about. Like, he actually did sound like a guy who had done some reflecting. And that he said, I said. I support, I would support the right for peaceful protest. In asking, you know, people were asking to revisit his comments about National Anthems and

Kaepernick and that. And he said, essentially, I've changed my mind, I would support peaceful protest. And I think this falls into that category because, you know, protest isn't just about, as I said, right or wrong. I think this is consistent. And, you know, what would happen if it was military or whatever else? We don't know is the answer. Sure. In 2016, we knew. Right, but what I'm saying is,

let's say it's literally anything, but let's take, oh, you know, I just don't feel like taking warm up tonight for whatever reason. You say that to, not just John Tortorella, every coach in the NHL, they go, well, then I will be healthy

scratching you. and like you can be and like if it's that important to you you can you can you can take the healthy scratch and we can talk about it after and talk about it through the media and all that kind of stuff or you can suck it up and you can go out there and warm up yeah i i just i mean we don't know i i don't think you're wrong in the sense that i you know if i had to bet i would not be surprised, but we don't know that. And again, like, I get that this is a sincerely held religious belief, and it's one that I personally find nasty, right?

But if it's sincerely held, then, you know, I get why the, anybody would be like, well, you have to respect that, you know? Yeah. And it's, look, it's not, it's not about politics. like human rights are not politics. But I mean it is though. Like, sure it is. It's human rights are, it's not politics, but it gets politicized.

And yes, we all, you know, divide up. And this is like, this shit is already on the front of Fox News this morning. And it's like, are we, are we going to do this dance? Are we going to play this game? I'll just say in this, I guess it will be the last thing I say on this. you know, I don't, I've never bought into shut up and dribble. I certainly did buy into it when it was aimed at athletes who were saying things I agreed with. I feel like to be, you know, to have moral consistency, I have to feel the same way when when people are saying things that I adamantly do not agree with.

And I, and to be, to be clear, I obviously adamantly do not agree with Provarov on this. but it is a situation where like you say to be morally consistent I can go I think this guy's a piece of shit yeah and I do yes and he lets know and and but like I have to be morally consistent in saying well fair enough right like if that's what you believe and you're willing to put it out there then you know I don't want to do the you have to hand it to him thing but like you you have to respect that like that's how serious he is about it as long as he's also going to accept all the criticism that's

going to come and all the damage to his reputation and and it seems like but again my my issue with it is this is like the flyers night they put out a statement saying we think uh LGBT they don't like really throw for over or they do as much as they can without actually saying like we think this guy sucks for this, right? Yep. But, and I just, I'm going to quote the Liam, Liam McHugh's quote about this. Explaining Proverov's decision is one thing. Saying you respect him during that explanation is another.

I think you can say you respect his point of view insofar as like he has this point of view. Like you can go, look, I got to respect that you feel this way. I don't have to respect the thing you're saying, but I respect that you are saying it. Does that make sense? It doesn't, but I mean, I don't even go there. I don't respect what he's saying. I don't respect him.

I don't respect anything about it. But my respect is not required for somebody to have a right to. No, but John Tortor, but he's saying John Tortorella did say he respected Proverov, because he is who he is or whatever. I don't have the direct quote in front of me, but he basically said like, you got to respect that he's him. And it's like, I don't.

Which again, I mean, is this is. You don't have to say that part. It's that simple. And again, just fucking scratch the guy. And this is the thing that like I don't really get. Like if you're John Tortarella is winning this fucking Tuesday night game in January when you're 50 points out of the playoffs or whatever against the Anaheim ducks. Is it that important to you to have your fourth best defenseman out there?

fuck man okay again like this guy was healthy scratching uh Kevin Hayes or James Van Reimsdiker whoever ever

for like not back checking enough but this one he's like you know what I got what am I going to do not put him in the lineup that's what's crazy to me yeah yeah I mean

having said everything I've said if he had scratched him I don't know that I have a much of an issue with that either um if he's like I said if he's

scratches him, I go, and they still put out all the statements and that kind of thing. I'm like, at least like, because like if John Tortorella is saying like, I actually agree with all this pride stuff, I think it's good to celebrate all these

you know, these people who are marginalized and that kind of stuff. Like if he's saying that, but he's also like, but I will be putting this nasty guy in the lineup tonight for a completely meaningless game. Oh. I guess you don't believe it as much as you're acting like you do.

Yeah. It's a mess. I honestly come out of this. I did not have a high opinion of John Tortorella coming into this. I honestly come out of this kind of having a lower opinion of Tortorella than I do pro overroved just because like I just, I do kind of take it as like a default of like an NHL player is going to make me mad with his stupid opinions. Yeah.

And beliefs. Whereas, like, if John Tortorella is like, I believe in all this stuff. I also don't care about it enough that, like, I'm going to scratch a guy who will have absolutely no impact on the game for me. That, to me, is, wow. I wonder if this changes the trade market for him, because he was a guy that's... Well, so that's the other thing I did want to talk about. Because I've seen the rumors for a little while now that they wanted to, like, everybody kind of agrees it's not working out in Philly. and it kind of seems like his teammates didn't like him already

based on all the rumors you see online. I don't know any of this stuff personally. But people have been kind of making it clear like he's kind of on an island in that dressing room. Yep. To your point, does this, yeah, this obviously impacts his trade value. I think if he's not untradable, the flyers will basically have to give him away for nothing.

And then whoever acquires him will have to pay him, put up with a shitstorm, quite frankly. Because now you're, much like Carolina did with the Tony DeAngelo stuff. And I'll say this, all that Tony DeAngelo stuff was like less overt than this, quite frankly. So I don't, I, to me, the trade market is like, if there is one, it's, we'll take this guy off your hands for nothing. Yeah. That's what the trade market is for him now. And I don't think it was very good to begin with.

Yeah. The league put out a statement just as we were discussing. Oh, did they really? Yeah. You know, essentially saying, you know, hockey is for everyone. It's up to the clubs to decide how they express that. And they close with players. Are free to decide which initiatives to support.

We continue to encourage their voices and perspectives on social and cultural issues. So, I don't know. That's about what I would have expected. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, again, you can't, you really don't want to say anything here that is then going to be weaponized against you when somebody stands up for something that should be stood up for. And unfortunately, in this day and age, everything, everything's a battle. It's all politics, you know.

Yeah. That's what it boils down to. So, yeah. So sheesh. I'm going to get... Ivan Proverov is an idiot is the main thing that we're taken away from this. Yep.

Yep. All right. Let's move on to some other news and notes here. You know, we've been talking about like, oh, you know, Colorado, where are they going to do here? They don't look like they're going to make the playoffs. And then Colorado's like, we're actually going to go into fucking psycho mode. They scored 13 goals in their last two games.

Now, granted, that's against the Ottawa senators and the Detroit Red Wings. Right. So. They go into that same Thursday night that Seattle goes in and beats Boston that I said felt like a tipping point. Colorado loses to the Chicago Blackhawks. There were basically 11 guys on the ice shooting the puck at the Blackhawks net and Colorado still lost. And it feels like that was the time when everyone sort of went. And I'll put my hand up.

I'm guilty of this 100%. I've spent the entire first half going, Colorado will be fine. They're not missing the playoffs. They're going to get healthy. They will probably win the conference again. And it was like that game. They had Nathan McKinnon.

Is the one where I feel like everyone looked at the standings and went, holy crap, this actually could happen. Yeah. Do you think it's like, do you think there's a realist? possibility that Colorado Avalanche missed the playoffs. Yeah, for sure. I think it's a small possibility, but I think this could continue.

And to your point, that Chicago loss, that was their 11th straight game without a regulation win. They had four, they went four, six, and one before that. Basically from the Christmas break. Including that, from before Christmas, they had a streak of three overtime or shootout wins. Then they lost a bunch of games. row. They beat the Oilers in overtime. Then they lost two more in a row. And now in the last two games,

they've kicked the shit out of Ottawa and Detroit. Two teams that stink. It depends when Landiscaug is coming back. He's supposed to come back sometime this month from what I seem to remember. Bowen Byram has been week to week since like early November. Josh Manson's week to week since early December. So, like, those are guys that are supposed to be contributing for them. Yeah. And it's really, and especially it's really thinned out the back end, right? But most teams are missing a few guys right now.

Sure. And how many times, by the way, have we seen over the last few years? Like, oh, Nathan McKinnon missed 12 games. Kail McCar missed 10. You know, like, this is just a team that gets banged up more than others. Vegas is the same way. Vegas, I guess we'll talk about this in a minute, but Vegas has had a ton of injuries this year and I feel like it's not being talked about very much.

But like, McKinnon's missed 11 games. Taves only missed two, I guess. Nuchushkin only played 16 so far this year. Gerard missed six. Like, Manson's missed half their season so far. Like, you can go down the list. There's just, everybody's been hurt again for them this year. But when Landiskeg and maybe one of those other injured defensemen come back,

I think they'll be totally fine. And it's just a matter of where do they end up in the standings by that point. They play Calgary tonight, but then their next two games are against Vancouver and Seattle. Two teams, again, they should be able to fill the net against. obviously Seattle can maybe make it a 6-5 game or something like that but Seattle game will be an interesting one yeah these are these are games that like are extremely winnable for them and uh you know they they do not they have not built themselves a cushion where you know they they can uh they can lose too many more games they can't

they certainly can't have another stretch of 11 games without a race My answer to the question, could Colorado miss the playoffs, is still absolutely not. But I said the same thing about the Golden Knights last year. Yep. I said the same thing about the lightning a few years ago. They ended up missing by one point. They got 94 points. The cutoff was 95.

It's in the realm of possibility. I'd say it's like a 15% chance. Yeah. What does Dom have them at? I mean, let's a hell of question. I don't have a. that in front of me here. Here we go.

Playoff projections. I'm going to guess that his is even actually lower than 15%. He's got him at 73% to make the playoffs. Yeah, so there you go. 27% chance. And again, this is kind of where, I think for most of us, like, we're bad at dealing with probabilities. We go, oh, okay, so Dom thinks he'll be fine.

And it's like, I mean, the 27% chance of catastrophe is more than one and four. pretty bad. Yeah, I think they have a better chance to miss than 27%. I think it, no, wait, what am I saying? I think there's like an 85% chance they make the playoffs. And I think Dom being lower than that is right. Like, it makes sense to me anyway. But, like, you know, they're really fucking good.

And as long as they can start putting the puck in the next, consistently and getting maybe a little better goal tending, there's no reason to, both of which I believe are extremely possible. But yeah, I don't know. It's hopefully they're like, this is just a team I want to see in the playoffs every year. And I guess I will say, you know, I think just a Western conference being what it is kind of sets them up to have more of an inside track. Like, they're behind Nashville in the standings right now.

Do we think they're a worst team than the fucking Nashville Predators? Of course not. No. Absolutely. So there you go, right? But they are a dead even 500 teams since the start of December. You believe that? Yeah.

I mean, I guess you can't because all the stuff I just said. But, you know, I guess what I'm asking is, would you have said there's any six-week period in this season? going into the year, there will be a six weeks period where the avalanche are a dead even 500 team you'd have been like impossible. And you know, totally reasonable. And especially with, like I said,

Nathan McKinnon's been back for big chunk of that. Like they're not torn apart by injuries the way that maybe we thought they were at one point. Not currently. I still think, yes. Yeah, they were. Absolutely. Absolutely.

It has led to where they are now. But now's where in the, they should be winning and based on the last couple games, seems like they're tick off. Beating the shit out of bad teams, that's what good teams are supposed to do, right? And I would say they even went above and beyond if they outscored those two opponents 13 to 3 and 2 games. Yeah, 7-0 over the Senators was...

Talk about the Senators caught him at the wrong time, man. Yeah. It's so funny to me, like, the amount of goalposts with this, I don't have this on the outline, but the amount of goalpost moving I've seen what the Senators, this year from the local media has been really funny to be. I saw an article the other day before they lost two in a row or whatever that was like, they're back to 500, folks. Back to 500.

Did you see that... Wow, cool. Who was it? I can't remember if it was Pierre or Elliott, but somebody said that they... They were back to 500 by beating Arizona. Yeah. They did it. Somebody said that they may be buying at the deadline because...

And the way it was phrased was that, you know, Pierre d'Orian feels like, it's important for them to at least be in the race. And I'm wondering if that isn't more like, this is Peer Dorian trying to save his job sort of deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would certainly be fascinating. If they're not talking like, if they're in on like Jacob Chicken or someone who's signed,

then that's one thing. But if it's a rental sort of deal, I don't know. This is the team that talked themselves into Travis Hammondack last year. So who knows? I think he's going to make the kind of trade where players on the senators are coming up to him and giving him a hug and saying thank you. That's right. For making these great trades.

Big burly men. Cheers in their eyes. All right. I mentioned this in passing with Vegas. So at elite prospects, we filled out our, like, what do you call it? Like our awards brackets for, let's see. It was, you know, the heart, the calder, the Vesna, the Norris, the Selky and the Jackson. Adams and I saw I was absolutely stunned by this there were multiple people on on

staff including people that I'm like oh that guy's really smart that did that did not have Jim Montgomery as their number one coach of the year and in fact many didn't have him or a few didn't have him as the number two hmm which that blows my mind Okay, that doesn't... That doesn't blow my mind because I... He's done a fantastic job. I think he's going to win the Jack Adams. And I'll have five regulations.

I'll have zero objection to that. But I do feel like the fact that it feels like we've already given him the trophy. And I think even just looking at what the Jack Adams usually represents, there's some other pretty good candidates out there. So I'm not... If somebody puts Lindy Ruff ahead of them, if someone... If somebody puts, you know, Bruce Cassidy probably not anymore, but I would have considered him early on. Here's the thing. I think Bruce Cassidy has to be the number two fucking guy. Okay.

Up until recently, they were the number one team in the Western Conference. They are currently second in the West right now. And the thing with Cassidy is his, he's always, the reputation has been that he's the guy who gets you the most out of your goal pending. Now that maybe doesn't, maybe that reputation doesn't hold anymore given what's happened in Boston since he left. but he took over a... No shit. He took over a great team that didn't have a goalie. And he just turned this rookie cast-off goalie into a pretty good goaltender.

Now, I'm not saying that's what he actually did. I'm saying that's the narrative there. Yeah. But here's what I want to say. Jack Eichel missed 13 games. Shea Theodore missed 16. Petrangelo missed nine. You know, and now it looks like Mark Stone's going to.

going to be out for a while too. And it's like, so all, this is exactly what happened last season, pretty much, right? Like, the best players on the team get hurt for long stretches of the season. And, uh, right now he has them, uh, well, I guess third in the West because two teams in front of him have more points. Um, and I, to me, like, I, I get why you, why you're saying Dave Haxstall. I get why you're saying Lindy Ruff. but like, you know, it's funny.

I look at my ballot and I guess I hadn't really realized how bad the injuries were because I have Cassidy 4th behind Rust and Rod Brindamore. And I don't know. Like, again, as much as I see Hacks stole and I go, wow, that's crazy. Again, the Hacksdoll thing is the traditional, here's the PDO award for a team we thought was going to be bad. I don't know. Yeah, I'm with you. And I'd love to see it handed out that way more often where it's, you know, let's give it to the actual.

Like the fact that like nobody can win the award twice in row. Yeah. Which is weird. But I just don't say with Montgomery, remember at the beginning of the season, they were like, oh, all these really good players for the ruins are going to miss time. Yep. They just need to like hang on and be pretty good while those guys are out. through like the middle of November, the Bruins were 14 and 2.

Yeah. So what are we fucking talking about? He's done a fantastic job. And he's been, you know, he's a great story and all that. I just, to me, it's in no particular order, Montgomery, Cassidy, Haxstall, rough, bonus. All are. And so a lot of people had bonus number one. And again, this is like, oh, his bright idea was that one.

And what would I say to Connor Halbach? Why don't you go be the best goalie in the world? Yeah. Well, Connor Halibich was a good goalie for years, and the Jets stunk out loud last year. Yeah, he wasn't great last year. He was just, like, pretty good last year. Yeah.

This year... No, I get it. I hear you. But, well, then... I mean, well, I mean, Haxville's PDO, but he's... Haxil's got terrible goaltending. So...

This is just, like, the classic thing of, like, uh, people feel like, like they need awards to let they need to like galaxy brain awards and this is the award that gets galaxy brain the most yeah and and and ultimately for no reason because we're not the ones who the writers aren't the ones who vote on it anyway so for sure but like this does feel like it's the award where a GM just goes well he won a bunch of games it doesn't matter how he did it you know uh with bonus in particular it's like look at the jets like underlying numbers they're not good so true yeah that's Like, he's, you know, he...

Look, at the end of the day, Montgomery's going to win it. I've got no issue. He'll be a worthy winner. But I'm not blown away by him not getting all the first or even second place votes. I could see the case. I think there's strong cases for five guys. They're 34, 5, and 4. They're so good.

I guess what I'm saying is I don't see, if this was any team, if this was the Colorado Avalanche after winning the cup last year. They go 34 or 5 and 4 to start the season. We're not giving Jared Bednar that trophy. We're not, we're like, well, you know who else is really good? Well, the thing is, we're maybe not giving it to, we're maybe not giving it to Jared Bedner because he's not a new guy, which seems to be a soft qualification for this, but Montgomery is.

Yeah, but again, I'm talking about like smart hockey people. Again, these are all people. Oh, I see, I was talking about the sports raters. So it's... Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I guess that's it. I don't really have a lot to say about the Robin Lainer thing. I know people were making a big deal about that.

This is one of those things where I was like, I thought we knew all this. I don't know. It's a Robin Lanner thing. I didn't even see that. Oh, he's filing for bankruptcy because of like his investment in that snake farm or whatever where the guy got murdered. Oh. Do you remember that being a story like a year or two ago? I vaguely do, but wow.

Okay, no, I hadn't seen anything. But now he's filing for bankruptcy. millions of dollars in the hole on these on these snake related investments which like folks right that snakes might be like the one thing that's a worst investment than like uh nfts in my opinion um wow okay but like so but people were being like well this is crazy and and again like apart from the bankruptcy filing i was like i definitely read a huge article about this where like Robin Lainer is kind of mentioned

incidently Mm-hmm Well anyway Okay That's all I had to say about it But people people were like You gotta talk about this People are like DMing me

You gotta talk about this I don't have a lot to say about it I guess Mm-hmm Yeah And neither do I Robin Lainer seems to go from bad to worse For this guy That's yeah

That's obviously a tough situation Yeah So I don't have a bigger take to that Sorry everyone But yeah, that's it. Sean, do me a big favor. Hit them with the plugs. You can find me on the athletic.

I can read my stuff there, listen to my podcast with Ian Mendez. I have a piece coming later in the week in which I'm going to go team by team and tell you whether or not that team should be looking to do a make a big trade. Not tinkering, not tweaking, not sitting out, but making like a big, gutsy blockbuster move. in the lead-up to the trade deadline. Wow. You'll never guess what I think the answer is for all 32 teams. The Vancouver Canucks, you say yes. Definitely they should do it.

I say the-Cannucks, Stan Pat. Stay the course. It's going great. Sure. You're all set. Yeah. And for me, obviously, eP.rinkside.com. Use the code I Love EP at checkout.

You get three months added on to the end of your annual subscription, only, annual. And yeah, I got, I don't know, I got a bunch of stuff. I wrote about the Canucks thing the other day. I wrote about the Cracken. I will be writing the power feelings later this week. And so, yeah, I'm just, I'm always writing over there. And then the Puck Soup Patreon, we got a bunch of bonus episodes coming out the last couple of days or so and the next couple of days and all that kind of stuff. So once again, just keep an eye out for all that and we'll

we'll obviously always have more content on there. There's a ton of content on there. If you do not subscribe and you've been kind of thinking about it, just check it out. Just click on it and see the insane amount of content

that you are missing out on. Yeah, and you can also see where sometimes like if I remember to put up a mailbag, like the second I wake up, oh, I better knew this right now, so I don't forget. You'll also get to see me put typos in the headlight and everybody makes fun of it for it. And then you can point the typos out to him. And that's really the main value ad. That's right.

And I'll be going, fuck, they got me. I did spell that wrong. It was so funny. I posted it like 8.15 in the morning or whatever yesterday. And some guys, like, is it 5 o'clock where you are? It's like, isn't a simpler explanation that I'm doing this with like little crusties in the corners of my eyes? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, okay.

Well, anyway, yeah, just a fun thing that happened. Yeah, so check all that out. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks for the support as always. And we'll talk to you next week. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Commentary to whatever you commute

But we also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes It's your weekly bowl of Hagi and Nancet. Borg Too