Puck Soup - Ugh Montreal

Episode Date: June 9, 2021

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wichinsky. ESPN, the worldwide leader in sports. Maybe you've heard of us. I'm Ryan Lamper from Elite Prospects.

I guarantee you've heard of us. Sean McAdoe from a little startup called The Athletic. You probably haven't heard of us, but we're doing our best. Scrappy underdog. You're in Puck Soup. I've heard of Elite Prospects because it's where I go to find out where a random person who's been traded is playing. Yeah, good for that.

It's great for that. I love it. It's fantastic for that. I also like, my favorite thing about elite prospects besides the incredible chronicle of KHL stats that is always there for people that hop over or playing over there is the part where you find out whose uncle played in the NHL. That's one of my favorite parts. That's always so interesting because it's like, oh, this guy's like second cousin played in the NHL in 1974 and you're like, All right, great. Recently, I was looking at a college hockey prospect who was like, you know, his aunt is Manon Rayome.

And I was like, hey, all right, great. That's fun. Yeah, it's awesome. I just want to go there one day and see, like, you know, Father Colan Sidney Crosby. I'm like, what? Yeah, I mean. We didn't know. Who knew?

Yeah, I mean, they showed Rob Brindamore last night on the broadcast NBC. They showed, like, video of him running. running his son's U-10 hockey tryouts. And it's like, yeah, we're like eight years away from whatever, Cooper Brindamore. I don't know what his kid's name is, but, you know, whatever. From him being like, you know, one of the eight best hockey prospects in the world and we just have to be like, yeah, I mean, I guess. Like he retired like three years ago, I feel like, but okay, sure.

I've often told the story that the first time I ever felt old doing this job was the year that Landon Ferraro got drafted. And I was like, not only do I remember his dad playing hockey, I remember his dad being on TV talking about hockey, and now he is drafted. Yeah, the Kachuk boys. Another. Yeah, exactly.

The draft has a very handy way of making you feel the sands passing through the hourglass. My best one was from baseball. I remember when Cecilfielder was still with the Blue Jays, and he would bring his... very chunky kid onto the field. And they were like, look, this eight-year-old is like already hitting the ball 300 feet. That's crazy. And it was Prince Fielder.

And he ended up being like a major star in the big leagues years later. But you're like, holy crap. I remember that kid when he was actually a kid. I remember being very upset when I found out that his name was Prince because he blew the opportunity to name his kid, left, center, or right. All of which would be fantastic. Well, Cecil wasn't doing a lot of. of outfield work, let's just say. So I don't, I think he knew it was up.

I don't think designated hitter would have worked. Yeah, utility middle. This is my son. Utility middle. Not to, not to like get off on and make this baseball soup or whatever. No, let's do it. I feel like, I feel like Edgar Martinez ruined the DH. Yeah, by being good at it?

Yeah, by being good at it, exactly. Because, and Joe Carter to a certain extent, too. Because back in the day, I used to love when big, sloppy fat fucks that couldn't play the field were your DH. Right? Like, you're Ken Phelpses, your Dan Pasquas, or your... Yeah, I don't think you need to... Like, that's still what the DH is. Like, David Ortiz...

Is it still like that? Yeah, of course. Not that David Ortiz is still playing. But, like, David Ortiz was a guy where it's like, well, shit, I mean, you can knock the fucking cover off a baseball, but I don't want to put him at first base under any circumstances. And then, you know, when the Red Sox would inevitably go to the world. Series and David Ortiz would have to play first base. It was always an adventure. Yeah.

It was always a fair trade-off. It's like, it's like you're, I mean, it wasn't a fair trade-off, actually. It was like, not only your pitchers have to hit now, but then your big sloppy guy has to actually play the field. Yeah, it sucks. National League revenge on that one. Yeah. Well, I mean, I don't recall it really working out too well for whatever national league team had to play the Red Sox while David Ortiz was playing for them. But Yeah, I mean, get rid of the freaking pitcher's hitting thing, unless it's show Hey, Otani, in which case. Yeah. And then it's a special...

Do you see that last time? Yeah. Four-70? We're seeing how good that guy is. Incredible. I don't want to, again, like, the DH thing is a debate for another day, but have either have you been following the sticky goo baseball pitcher thing that Pruitt wrote about? Yeah.

So what is this about? Like, I haven't really followed it. I've been very hockey-minded. It's like a legal, sticky thing they're putting on the ball? Yeah, pretty much. And they asked Garrett Cole about it, and he was like... I saw that. You know, sticky substances are a land of contrasts.

Didn't have a fucking answer at all. It sucked. It was one of those deals were... Yeah. Yeah, he had to know he was going to get asked at some point, but, like, the thing I loved about it was very much the... I'm not saying I'm doing it, but I'm not saying it's bad, but if it is bad,

I'm just saying I'm not doing it. Or if I get it's in the tradition. Right. Yeah. It's like, oh, that's right. That was the thing that killed me. It was like, it was like, you know, certain traditions are passed down from generation to generation. And then you learn it's bad.

It's like, it's like, what are you talking about? A fucking, you know, a plantation ball? Like what is going on here? It's like, I felt his struggle because he's talking about something that he probably knows we banned after this season, but doesn't really want to, like, dabble in it. Yeah. But remember, you got to ban Barry Bonds from the Hall of Fame because he took steroids that time. So, yeah.

To put it in terms that hockey fans could understand, like, imagine, like, a hypothetical world where scoring in the NHL went way down. And as part of that, let's, I don't know, let's just say the goalies started wearing illegal equipment. and everybody was like, hey, the goalies seem to pretty obviously be wearing illegal equipment. And then the league was like, we kind of have rules, but we don't really enforce it. But maybe we will eventually. Anyways, Major League Baseball is a professional league run by actual leaders.

So they're going to take care of it and not you just wait 20 years to do anything about it. But that's sort of what it would be like. I know it's hard to imagine, but that's the best I can do. Goalies are wearing illegal equipment. They should really change it. And J.S. Jaguerr burst through the wall and goes, oh, yeah. And then, yeah, exactly. And, well, then the equivalent would be him going, well, look, I mean, does illegal equipment, maybe, but also who's to say? And certainly I have never and, but if I did and could, that, you know.

Right. And he's like, it's been passed down from generation to generation. And Grant Fier is like, I'm literally wearing panty hose. Yeah, regular shin pads. It's not been passed down from any generation to generation. All right, gallant effort to bring it back to hockey, Sean. Montreal, holy shit, a big sweeperoo. They advance. As we do the show, by the way, we should mention that the Colorado Vegas series is approaching game six, and then game six of Boston, New York is tonight.

So we'll talk around those series a little bit. But let's start with the one that we know is Fene, which is Montreal advancing over Winnipeg. I've been candid with my struggles about Montreal, trying to find reasons to like this team, and to get past the notion that they just are a team with a giant golden horseshoe shoved up their ass as far as how many breaks they've gotten. Well, but let's start with you, Ryan. And tell me your feelings on Les Habitants these days.

You know, I think they were clearly all season a better team than the Winnipeg Jets, but they didn't get the goaltending that Winnipeg does. because Winnipeg has the best goalie in the world. And, you know, like, Harry Price is certainly playing at a comparable level, I guess you would say, at this point. But the idea that, like, you know, I wouldn't have called a suite, but I thought the habs were going to be pretty comfortable favorites unless Halebuck stood on his head. And he only sort of did. So, like, again, you know, the thing with Montreal is, and this is a problem going back for many years,

is they have a pretty mediocre roster, I think you would say. Like no real stars on it, although, you know, maybe Cole Cawfield and Nick Suzuki become that. Or are becoming that now, I guess. But, you know, the Winnipeg Jets roster, once you get the top line off the ice, or, you know, Mark Hifley gets suspended. Yeah. You know, once you get those guys off the ice, you're like, yeah, I guess these guys really aren't that good.

That's really what it boils down to for me. Outside of maybe whatever line Eilers is on and then you get past it. Well, I mean, that's a whole different thing where it's like, yeah, maybe Nick Eilers shouldn't be like eighth in forward ice time on this team. But what do I know? I'm not coach for life in Winnipeg. I was surprised. I thought the Jets would be more dangerous. More of a fight for sure.

But yeah, they just offensively. I mean, we all looked at that team and went, well, you know, if they need Halibuck beat the top and the blue line is not great. But you figured that they could, that they could score a little bit more. I mean, look, it's two series in a row for Montreal, right? Where they've been facing a team with a really dangerous top six that then lost a key part of that top six. And suddenly it kind of started looking like a top three. and that's life though. I mean, have they been lucky, had some breaks?

Yeah, every team that goes deep in the playoffs has some luck at some point. And I don't, you know, it's one of those was a fluke accident and one of them was somebody in the other team being a dumbass and taking themselves out of the series. Well, from what I understand it was actually Dops who eliminated. Right, yeah. That's the funniest thing that anybody's ever said. Speaking of the guys who had a week to think of what they were going to say. Mark Shafley said it. He thought that Philip Deneau was going to take him out of the series,

and then it turned up to be the Department of Player's Safety, which is honestly a clever line, but also founded in just absolute abject. Well, what's also funny is he's like, yeah, oh, no, I was totally expecting to go into this series and get owned by Phil Deneau. Like, I thought he was going to kick my ass up and down the ice. but I didn't even give them the chance. You know, we saw this last year where they lost Shafley and they bounced back and they won a game.

Kind of like how when the Leafs lost Tavares, they bounced back in one a few games. Three, I think, is the number. Yeah, yeah, three. But at some point you feel the loss. And in Winnipeg's case, I think they, I think in the back of their minds, they kind of remembered how hapless they were

with him out of the lineup last year in the bubble. And then I see him, you know, go out through his own self-annihilation in game one. And then they just got all kind of rainy-faced about it. You know, they probably knew they couldn't beat this team without a functioning top line. And if Shifley's not on the line, it's not going to be any good. I guess. I mean, if so, that's a pretty big indictment of that group. Right. Because even with Shifley out and down a game, you're not overmatched against this Montreal team.

You should be absolutely in that series. But in Dight away, like that's the reality of this team, is that you take Shifley off that line, and you take Shafley out of this lineup than what do you have left? I mean, it's just, it's that way the team is built. I mean, it's the way they've chosen to build the team. But I don't know. I was shocked it was a sweep,

but once Shifley took himself out of the series, you kind of read the writing on the wall, especially with the way that Montreal has been defending. And they've been playing well. Like, much of them, give them credit, man. This is not like, look, I, it's no secret. I'm no big fan of defensive hockey. And I think if Montreal goes on a run and actually wins this thing,

I think that's very bad for the league on some level. But also, this isn't some passive team that's just sitting back and trying to grind the game into nothing. Like, they're pretty ferocious out there. Yeah. And it's a system that only works if everybody is fully bought in 100% on every shift. And that's harder. That's a lot easier said than done.

And they're doing it. They're pulling it off. So credit to them. Yeah. I mean, and to my earlier point, this is a team that generally has underperformed its expected goals numbers because of that lack of, that lack of like real star talent. And also that's the same reason why they've generally underperformed on special teams in particular. The power play is still not very good.

But now they're actually killing penalties and it's because Kerry Price is standing on his head. And, you know, if you can if you can stand on, get a goal who stands on his head and capitalize on breakaway. and stuff like that, which they did a lot of. Winnipeg, as is its want, gave up a lot of odd man rushes and breakaways, including one to Shea Weber in one of the games, which is like, oh, that shouldn't be allowed to happen. But, like, that's why they won is because they effectively killed penalties, which is the only thing Winnipeg's been good at all year.

You know, they were terrible five-on-five team. And so for the haves who were a good five-on-five team, to kick their asses at it, you know, that makes perfect sense. That's a big part of it, yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I've just seen like this, I'm already seeing bits and pieces of it floating around out there where it's like people look at this Montreal team and they're like, yeah,

this is what happens, right? In the regular season, the teams that can score are going to win. But in the playoffs, they stop calling the rulebook and teams like this can just. Montreal's not clutching and grabbing and tackling guys to keep them off the score. Like, trust me, there was no montage in that Leaf series of Austin Matthews and Mitch Marner getting hauled down over and over again and uncalled this and that. Like, if that had been out there, they would have put that on TV and we'd all be talking about it. And the reason you didn't see it is because it wasn't happening.

They're a physical team. They're an aggressive team. But this isn't, you know, this isn't the 96 Panthers just. just water skiing behind guys and assuming the refs are going to put the whistle away. There's more to it than that, and they deserve credit. First off, thank you for not referencing the 95 Devils in that comparison. I always appreciate that. Secondly, I agree.

And I think the, I think the acknowledgement that skill can win you regular season games, but not necessarily postseason games, is more about the style of play changing versus the rulebook not being called. And I think that's, I mean, you talk to any player and they'll tell you that there's just less, there's less ice. You know, there's less open, open ice for you in the playoffs just because of how tightly everybody's playing and how focus everybody is in a seven game series versus an 82 game marathon. And so I kind of buy it, to be honest with you, Sean. Like, I buy the idea that it's the teams. I mean, you look at, I mean, I hate to bring them up because they're just like a model franchise right now. But the Lightning are a team that can beat you with skill in the.

regular season and quite frankly in the postseason, but they also have like a collection of role players that can also win stylistically playoff hockey-wise, too. The Ross Coltons of the world, who... Yeah, well, I was thinking more like the Alex Calorns of the world. Well, I mean, like, believe me, I saw Ross Colton play a lot of hockey. I don't look at that guy and go, now there's a man with some skill in reserve. And yet, but it's just like, someone put it out there. Like now, it's like now they have an assembly line of these types of guys.

Like, it's like fucking guy goes down, here's Ross Colton scoring a goal. Guy goes down last year. Here's Carter Verhegey scoring a goal. Like, what the fuck? It's just insane. Alex Barry is going to be the next one. He's the like Syracuse guy who's kicking ass these days. And yeah, I don't know.

They are good at drafting and developing talent in a way that, you know, most teams aren't. And it seems like that's a most teams problem. Because if you can turn Ross Colton, who wasn't a particularly good college hockey player, into, oh, yeah, no, he's the kind of guy who can take over a game five against the Carolina Hurricanes. It's like, well, what are they doing so differently, you know, that they can, that they can just create those guys out of nothing every single year? It's crazy. Last thing on the habs, Sean, you were mentioning before the show, the scene. Cien Tower thing. Can you explain that for the Americans who may not understand why the most iconic building in Toronto was lit up in Montreal Colors this week?

Yeah, the C&Tower is owned and operated by a federal Crown Corporation, which is not quite the same as saying that they're run by the federal government, but it's kind of in that ballpark. So, yeah, they're going to do national things, not Toronto things. and plus it's a tourist attraction. So they're not going to only cater to a Toronto audience. They want people from elsewhere in the country to come visit them. So I kind of cringed like everyone else when I saw that they were flying Montreal colors. But if people honestly don't understand why that's happening, then I don't really know what to tell you.

And it's no doubt. I mean, the Empire State Building flies other teams' colors too. Like this is just kind of a thing that these sorts of buildings do. So I don't know. It feels like of all the things you could get your licks in on Toronto these days, this was a weird story to blow up the way it did. And just to be clear, the C does not stand for Cuck, right? In C.N Tower?

I don't think so. It stands for Canadian. Oh, that's why. Synonymous. Tampa gets by Carolina. This was kind of a bummer of a series, wasn't it? Yeah. Bit of a letdown.

I felt like it was five good games. I just wanted seven good games. Yeah, right, exactly. I didn't think it. It wasn't like, like even, you know, some would say the first half of the Toronto Montreal series where it was like, oh, there's all this hype, and then the games were not very good.

I thought the games were good. It's just, I wanted it. I want it more is what I want it. I mean, I can't say it was a bad series when you have the kind of batshit insanity that you had in the second period of game four, which was just, incredible to watch.

But it is one of those that kind of felt like it could be a marathon. And then it wound up being another assassin-like efficient performance by the Lightning. And it was, but I guess the other bummer, though, was that they missed Trocheck and Niederrider for a little bit. They got him back for five. And they were still missing, I think, a couple guys in that game, too. But that's the playoffs. Yeah, I don't know.

It was just kind of the lightning for the second straight round, exerting their will on an upstart opponent. And I don't think, okay, so if you're Carolina, do you feel real shitty about this, or do you just say, hey, it just, they're better. They ran into a bus saw. I mean, you know, the lightning, the lightning are going to pose matchup problems for everybody. And again, Carolina is probably like a top five or six team in the league, but the lightning are a top two or three team in the league. And so, you know, what are you supposed to do? Sometimes, especially, like you said, there were injuries, and I'm sure that they didn't come back and they were at 100%, you know. So on some level, you're like, damn, we had a really good chance, like, are we going to get this out of Nadelcovic again?

And also, are we going to be able to resign Dougie Hamilton again? So, like, yeah, you're going to feel like you wasted it. But again, you know, like the playoff formats, very strange. The whole season's been very strange this year. year in a normal in a normal postseason you know they're not playing the Tampa Bay lightning until at least the conference final so you know it's not like they don't have a good thing going where it's like where you know the Panthers where it's like oh that might have been it for a while you know they have a really good chance to be one of the best teams

in the metro again next year when things get back to you know the full 82 and and you know they're playing the Rangers and the Islanders in the first couple of rounds instead of the, instead of the lightning. But, yeah, I mean, when you're, when you're a really good team, you're going to kind to look at how things went and go, yeah, we probably should have played more postseason games than this. Sean, what did you make of, I think Justin Bourne said it recently, that Dougie Hamilton is the apple of Kyle Dubas's eye.

Yeah. Yeah, maybe on some level he could be that sort of guy. I don't know how, if you're the Leafs, I don't know how you make that happen. It also doesn't seem like both he and Morgan Riley could exist in the same space time. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I mean, we did our last show on last Wednesday. It was the day of, but it was before the Leafs had done their shutdown day. And Brennan-Shannahan and Kyle Lewis basically got up there and said,

We're keeping everything the same. We're keeping the same core. We're going to push forward at this group. Yeah, there's an argument for doing that. But if you are, then that takes you out of Dougie Hamilton. It takes you out of Seth Jones. Anyone else big names that might be available that you're looking at, unless you move Morgan Riley.

But the thing with moving Morgan Riley is whatever you think of that guy, whether you think he's a top-tier first-paring guy, or whether you think he's more of a good second pair type guy, at $5 million a year, which is what he's got the last year of his deal next year, at $5 million, he's good value or maybe even great value. And I don't know how you move good or great value contracts out and get better when you're facing a cap crunch.

Like I understand if you're going to keep the big four, he's the next guy on the list. I mean, Anderson's gone. That gives you a little tiny bit of room to work with. if you want anything more than that, you've got to move. I mean, Riley's kind of the guy you got to move,

but what are you bringing in with that $5 million in cap space that's going to be better than what you head? That's going to be the question for them. Yeah. Hamilton's a $9 million defenseman, right? I think he is. Yeah. It's, yeah, I mean, you never know.

Who knows what the market's going to look like? But certainly, yeah, if he's your day one target, you're going up high on those numbers. What do you think happens with Brindamore? I've been told that I can't even, we can't even talk about the fact that he doesn't have a contract yet. I mentioned it a month ago when Friedman was reporting it because Elliot Freeman doesn't just pull things out of the air.

If Elliot Friedman is going on TV saying Rudd-Bindamore doesn't have a contract, it's because somebody involved somewhere in the process wants that out there. And I mentioned it and I got piled on by Hurricanes fans saying, no, no, the owner has said it's going to get done. Don't worry about it. It's a done deal. And then a little while after that when the story went out saying, well, Brindamore wants his staff taken care of.

Again, weird thing to come out. Sounds like something somebody wanted to put out there. But again, I was told, nope, sure thing. it's a lot, don't even talk about it. So, obviously, the most likely scenario by far is he resigns, and he stays there where it's a good fit, but I don't know. I don't know. The number that was put out there was quite low.

But there's more to life than what the number is. But I'll just say this, you know, can I picture Rod Brindamor leaving the hurricanes? No, of course not. No. Could I picture Barry Trots leaving the capitals after winning the Cup? No. Could I picture Mike Keenan bailing on the New York Rangers? No. Stuff happens in this league. So I, you know, I get, I guess if the owner says it's going to get done, we just all assume it's going to get done. But this feels like it's a worthwhile story to talk about, but I guess I'm in the minority on that.

No, I mean, Hurricanes fans get a little salty when you're bringing up. It's a sensitive area. Speaking of sensitive, I'll just say, one last one. Today's episode of Puck Soup was sponsored by Monscaped. You just talked over by amazing transition. Sorry, bud. You know, Manscaped is a product.

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Uh-oh, Colorado's in trouble. The avalanche as we do this show is they're down three two in the series, having lost an overtime game on home ice to Mark Stone and the Golden Knights because Ryan Graves tried to shoot the puck through five people. And Mark Stone was smart enough to skate the other way when he saw that happen. The Nathan McKinnon line shut down pretty handily in the series by the Golden Knights. and if you are an avalanche fan, you are probably feeling pretty bad about things right now, because you were certainly the odds on a favorite to win the cup. Ryan, how do you see this series having broken down? Yeah, I mean, Colorado hasn't played well for four games now.

They obviously blew Vegas out in the first game, just like absolutely obliterated them. Then one game two kind of by the skin of their teeth and maybe they, maybe, you know, on the quote unquote, deserve to win it O meter. They did not deserve to win it. And then they get their ass kicked again, the three straight game. Although, you know, like, it's certainly a situation where you go, well, you know, there's a Colorado avalanche. If anybody can turn it on in an instant, it's them.

And they looked really good for two periods last night. But then that third period happened in Vegas, like, well, we're not losing this game. What are you talking about? So, I don't know. I think it's going to be a tough. sell to get me to believe that Mark Andre Fleury is going to absolutely shit himself at this point. But like I said, if anybody can make a good goalie look bad in short order, it's this Colorado Avalanche team.

Yeah, series is not over, of course, but Vegas looks real good. Yeah. I mean, Vegas, and Ryan's right, it's not three games, it's four games that they, They have been the significantly better team. And we haven't seen that against the Avalanche since the last place season. Like literally, have they had a stretch where they've been they've been beaten up like this since then? It's pretty, it's pretty remarkable. And, boy, like the press conference that Jared Bedner had after game four was just very telling.

Like very much just kind of like, you know, calling out the effort and all that stuff. Or was game three, wasn't it? Or was game three? Yeah, right, right. Yeah, game four, he was sort of like a little bit better with it. But like the thing that I found really fascinating was maybe something that I underrated about the Golden Knights that at this point, if you are the McKinnon line, let's see you get away from Stone. You got to then get away from the Marcioso line, too. And let's say you get away from Martinez and Pietrangelo.

Well, now you've got to get away from Shea Theodore, too. Like, they are a very well-constructed team in the sense that they've got two lines that play great at both ends of the rink. And then, you know, the grand plan of getting to number one D, I think, is worked out well, even if, you know, Peterangelo has not been all that great for them. I think he and Martinez are a really good pairing. So they're, that's good, man. they're really well-constructed team. Yeah. I really am interested in that Bedner press conference,

those comments after the game. Because I got to be real honest. Like, let's only because we're, I mean, we record this once a week, so the series will be over. We got to sort of play with it in the moment. Acknowledging that Colorado could absolutely come back and win this series. If they don't, I do wonder how that's remembered. And if that's seen as a meaningful moment

in the series because I got to be honest, when that happened, when they came out and they won six straight and then they lost their first game and he goes out there and just rips on everyone, I thought it was great. I really did. I was still sitting in my leaf fan bitterness and I was like, yeah, this is what it sounds like when you have expectations of your star players. This is what it sounds like when an organization expects to win and not good enough is just not good enough. And I love the fact that even on the very first loss of the

playoff run, that he was willing to plant that flag and say, we've got to be much, much better than this. But three games later, it kind of feels like you're sitting there going, well, for a youngish team that's never had a deep run, maybe having the coach act like the first loss of the postseason after six straight wins when you've been looking great, having the coach react to that like it was a grade A crisis wasn't the right thing. I don't know. I got a lot of shit, I remember from somebody behind the scenes when I said that Bender could be the guy before the guy as their coach. And I could see why you might not feel that way because their regular season success has been great.

And I think he's had success at every level as far as winning championships. But I don't know. It's hard to gauge. I feel like this is another Carolina situation where you shouldn't be too pissed off about losing to a really good team. But then maybe it should be because you should be the better team in theory. Yeah. In the series? And again, you know, again, much like Colorado, it's like, or much like Carolina, it's like Colorado is kind of probably look quite a bit different next year because they got to figure out the McCar contract and everything.

And that's not going to be freaking cheap. And like, again, you know, you, you. you can kind of accept, well, look, we didn't get the bounces, blah, blah, blah, like you can accept that as a team or an organization and even as a coach. But, yeah, they're getting annihilated. They're not just, like, barely losing, like, they're barely losing on the scoreboard, but that's their talent, like, keeping them in games they shouldn't be in. Yeah.

Yeah. So. The point that I was going to make on Carolina before I ruined. Greg's otherwise flawlessly I mean, it was award winning. My only point on that was, I think Carolina's a real, real good team, but what concerns me if I'm them is the last three seasons have ended this year against Tampa, you're out in five.

Last year against the Bruins, you're out in five. The year before that, against the Bruins, you're out in four. So why is it that when we keep running into the elite teams, we're not just losing, but we're getting spanked? I think they would say goaltending. Well, then go find a goaltender. No. You're not locked in to who you got.

So that's Carolina. Colorado's a bit different. The thing with Colorado is like, again, if they lose and, yeah, this three days from now, this whole conversation might sound stupid because Colorado is getting ready to play Montreal and there's still a cup favorite and all of that. But if they go out, at what point does this sort of become like an almost like a maybe Maple Leafs light situation where you're like, this team hasn't, this team should have had a run in them at some point. And this will be yet another second round exit.

And this is, this goes back to not just the Bednar Sackic management era, the McKinnon era, even before that. Like, this blew me away. The Toronto Maple Leafs have played a conference final game more recently than the Colorado Avalanche have. Jesus Christ. That seems insane. I mean, first of all, because to be able to say that about the Leafs and any team, but Colorado, this is like one of the model franchises, one of the teams that's, you know, we know they had that dip a few years back, but this is a well-run team.

This is a good, this is a really good team. And yet they get, you know, and again, it's like the Leaf situation with the dial turn down, because they have one round, so it's not, it's not at the same level, but it's almost like, I don't know, I wonder when we started. having that conference. Like, do we start going like, what's the deal with Nathan McKinnon? What's the, like, he's been fantastic in the playoffs, not the last few games, but the beginning of this series, he was amazing last year.

So it's not like he's just not producing. But is there something with the core? Is there something with the coach? Is there something with whatever? Or do you just go, yeah, you know what? We're flipping coins and sometimes the coin comes up to you. Yeah, especially because they're playing the team that tied them for the president's trophy in the second round.

Yeah. You know, like, I think that if, much. much like Carolina, you just go, well, fuck. I mean, you know, if you play seven games against a really good team, you know, you do have like a coin flip chance of either winning or losing how, you know, four out of those seven games. If this was a, if this was like a 21 game series, maybe it's going very differently and you're not like, well, this is it, you know, but that's, that's how it is. And I think in much the same way that this is true of Carolina, the format. of the playoffs, not just this season, but like, you know, the last several years, it was kind of fucking Colorado. And, and obviously, you know, at some point you can't use that as an excuse because everybody has to come out of their own division and blah, blah, blah, and they keep not doing it. But this year in particular, it's like, yeah, we had to play the team for the president's

trophy. We had to play them again. And where are you going to do? sometimes you're going to lose two or three games in a row. Alex Newhook, Bowen Byram, two first rounders to Pittsburgh for Sidney Crosby,

who says no? Probably Pittsburgh? I mean, it's Sidney Crosby, you know. Yeah, I mean, Pittsburgh absolutely says no, but. But what if Sidney Crosby says yes to go play with his friend and win a cup? Does he want to, yeah, I mean, you know, does he want to?

Can I plant that seed? Can I insist? this in the hockey world to get Sidney Crosby to play with Nathan McKinnon and lead Colorado to the cup, like to have a messier-like impact on Colorado. The other thing to say, of course, is that they're, again, it's his own fucking fault, but they're missing their number two center. Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because this is obviously the third time that Nazim Codry has done this in the playoffs, taking himself out of a series.

As bad as, I think it's been overshadowed because of how. how fucking dumb Shafley was. But yeah, they miss him big time. I mean, yeah. The margins of the series are very tight. It is, there's a lot of hockey being played where a Nassum Khadry could make a huge difference. And what did we think about the neutral arbitrator not reducing that suspension?

Because I think this is one of the only times that's happened. Yeah. When they've gone all this, the way they've gone this far to this level. I think he was right. I think so too. Yeah. But like, you know, It leaves Colorado in a bad spot because it's like, oh, J.T. Comfer is our number two center or Tyson, Joe, you know, whoever you want to say is their number two guy.

And it's like, oh, yeah, he, what's the word I'm looking for? Kind of sucks. Like, he's fine. But as a number two center, he kind of sucks. And, you know, you just end up going, yeah, I guess, you know, we're going to lose that, the battle to the Carlson-Marthas-o Smith line. Like, every single time out now. The thing I found really fascinating about the cadre appeal was the fact that the, basically the Tom Wilson suspension reduction that happened was because the NHL, like, invented math to explain their decision. And then this time, it was much more kind of in keeping with what they normally would do. And in fact, the Wilson suspension, which ended up around, what was it, 16 games down from 20. He was right. 20 down to 14, but he had already served more than that. Oh, okay. So 20 down to 14.

That helped inform this suspension. If you go by like the playoff multiplier, it's like 16 regular season games. And the arbitrator is like, yeah, this is the ballpark for what, what cadre eight six time repeat offender should, should garner in the suspension. And I don't know, I always found it really strange that there was a cult of people online that were like saying that he got. got job by the suspension. And I don't, again, I don't know if it's like, again, in reaction. Do those people tend to have Denver zip codes? Is that? No, it's not simply that. I think it's also kind of the people that are still reacting to the Panera, the Panarin Wilson thing. And then yeah, which we can't like at some point that that can't, I mean, if you think it's a bad

decision, which an awful lot of people did, okay, then it can't be, you can't then turn around to use that as a precedent for everything going forward in the name of consistency. Like at some point, you can't sit here and say, it's ridiculous. Tom Wilson didn't get suspended. He should have got 20 games for that, blah, blah, blah. And then when your guy does something go, oh, well, but Tom Wilson. And that's really the thing, too, Sean. Like, part of the Wilson thing was this notion of this is the guy that should get the big suspension

because he's like one of the only problematic people in the game insofar as doing this thing over and over again. And then fucking cadre does it for like the sixth time hitting somebody in the head. And this is exactly the person you're talking about. And they gave him the commisered, you should be happy. You should be happy. Yeah, you fucking up this time. I think it's, you got to remember, right?

Like when when you appeal to the arbitrator, you're not appealing the Department of Player's Safety decision. You're appealing Gary Bettman's decision. Right. Gary Bettman very clearly wrote his decision. This was an open book test for him. He didn't have it for Tom Wilson and he got nailed on it. He basically sat there with the arbitrator's decision from Tom Wilson and almost cut and paste it word for word the arguments back explaining why this would stand.

And look, yeah, we've seen arbitrators reduce. We saw it for Tom Wilson. That was 20 games. We saw it for Wyman. That was 20 games. This is eight games. What are you going to knock it down to? Seven?

You think the arbitrator is going to get himself fired over one game? I wasn't surprised at all, especially given that Batman, like I said, could just go down a checklist and know exactly what he had to put in front of the arbitrator to make sure it wasn't going to get overruled. Right. I don't know. It was interesting. I really did think it was going to get reduced and he might play, but made the right call. All right. Colorado, again, tough to talk about them because that series isn't over.

But we forge ahead. and to get to the series, the game that I will be going to after we get done taping this, the Boston Islander series, which could end in game six or go on to a game seven. Obviously, the thing to talk about here is Bruce Cassidy. I sit next to Joe McDonald in the press box, who was with the athletic and with the SPN. And he and I, he and I both knew that Cassidy was going to say something about the officiating after game five. And when he starts going in on the New York Saints, fucking, they're swallowing what the Islanders are selling them kind of shit. He and I just looked at each other and just like bug-eyed.

It's like, this is fucking fantastic. And then Cassidy went on for like 20 minutes. So stupid by Cass. For a million different reasons, but the big one is he got away with criticizing the refs after game, what was it, game four, I guess. He was like, oh, they don't call shit for us, blah, blah, blah, whatever he said. And then the league didn't do anything. They let him say whatever he had to say, and that was it. But then...

Say his peace, yeah. First of all, it didn't fucking work. Working the refs like this, they were like, yeah, we don't give a shit about you complaining to the media. Although, I guess, again, like Barry Trott's going, well, Patrice Bergeron, who's won for 87 at the dot, and the series is cheating on face-offs. And so they kicked them out of like nine face-offs in that game. But, you know, it's... He returned to the scene of the crime and the cops were like, oh yeah,

we would happily arrest you for being stupid enough to fucking complain about this again. I, you know, I don't understand why he would do it other than he thinks it's going to, like, have the fucking effect of getting the call. But,

like, he already did it and it didn't work. And now the Boston media is so mentally destroyed by this that they're like they're finally shaking up the rest. It's like, yeah, they've changed the rest after every fucking game. Every game. Such a stupid article. That was written by somebody who doesn't know how the playoffs

work. Right, but like they're all doing it. Now they're all report breathlessly. Oh, this fast just in from the NHL. Extra, extra, read all about it. It's two different guys. Yeah, no fucking shit, you morons. I think he was genuinely pissed off that

the Islanders worked the refs. And I think his evidence that the Islanders worked the refs was the fact that Barry Trots called out Patrice Burjohn for cheating in the faceoff circle. If Patrice Burjohn got tossed in the face off circle like three times the first period. I don't blame him. Like I'd be pissed off too. And I think what really set him off and I was there for the game and I agree with them is they had like a shot attempt advantage of like triple with the Islanders had in that game. Their zone time was sick. Like, there's no reason why...

They dominated that game. They dominated that game, especially the first period. The idea that the Islanders would have like three power plays before the Boston Bruins said one was fucking insane. He had every right to bitch about it. He just went in a little bit. You cut a little deep. Deeper than I expected. Yeah.

With that press conference. And the other thing is, like, I said this on Twitter yesterday, but three Bruins in this series have gotten Max Fines that got a combined penalty in game of two minutes in the box that didn't result in any goals for the Islanders. Right. Who was it? Debruss got away with cross-checking someone in front of the net, just like in the back of the head. No two ways about it. That happened.

Cretche got his spear reduced from a major to a minor because the refs decided, well, look, he got cross-checked a bunch of times by Barzol. And, like, yeah, so that should have been a five and a two. instead of a two and a zero. But, you know, they still lucked out insofar as David Crachy got to keep playing. And then who was, it was Nick Ritchie just fucking elbows a guy in the head, no call on the ice. And it's like, yeah, you're not fucking, like, you're getting away with shit constantly. You're just not getting the power plays. Like, to your point, I get why he's pissed because, you know, the idea that the, the team that has the puck that much shouldn't have drawn any power plays.

is crazy. I agree with that on some level. But in the larger extent of the or context of the series, it's like, yeah, you've gotten away with a shitload. Like, maybe don't make too much of a fucking stink about it. Who has a better shot at beating the lightning, the aiders of the Bruins? I think the goals got a shot. I mean, I'm not sure that I would put one significantly ahead of the other. I guess you would say the team with the two

scoring lines as opposed to one. But then again, the Bruins are kind of in a tough situation with their defense, where it's like, oh, yeah, we have to play two guys who aren't good every single night because nobody's healthy. By the one scoring line, do you mean the Clutterbuck line? Yeah, no. Greg, I think you mean the identity line. Fucking, yeah. Speaking of nicknames, speaking of nicknames, how great is it that they,

They've christened the Marsha So line, the misfit line, the golden misfit line. Like, that's beautiful. Like, that's their link to the... It's a great nickname. It's a great nickname. I like it a lot. But we've, you know... We talked about in the show that there are no good nicknames for lines anymore.

Yeah. It's called by, like, the name of one player, the McKinnon line. Yeah, and that continues with the misfit line. We already did this gimmick. It's over. All right. But, you know, again, like, this is a bomb. Boston Cottage industry of any time anybody says the perfection line, like 40 Boston beat writers have to go,

actually nobody calls them that. And it's like they call them that constantly. That's why you tweet about it all the time. So, you know, the identity line is the exact same shit where it's like, don't call them that. And it's like, I mean, don't call them that. But like, you're not going to stop them. So I believe it's pronounced cottage by the way. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just say on Cassidy? A couple things. First of all, obligatory sour leaves fan. A Bruins coach complaining that things are getting let go in the playoffs, a little rich, just a little rich.

I think people need to remember when it comes to work in the refs, there's two levels to this. Every series has got like a series supervisor, and the teams have access to that person, and that's in theory where you're supposed to go to do this stuff. And it happens all the time. And, you know, the Berger on face off thing, yeah, Trots mentioned it publicly,

but I'm sure that was something where they sat down and said, hey, look at what this guy's doing. Keep an eye on this. Like that's where you get to tell the supervisor, like, hey, watch out for this or watch out for that. They're interfering with us on face off. So they're doing this. They're doing this.

watch this player, watch this situation. And then a lot of times that will translate to calls, but we don't know about it because we're not part of the conversations. And that's how the league wants it. It's when guys go and do it publicly like this, that it becomes a little bit dicey because sometimes it works. But now also the reps are going, okay, I'm under pressure to call it a certain way, but also everybody knows I'm under pressure to call it that way.

So if I do call it that way, now I look like I just got played by the coach. so sometimes it backfires. And it also goes back to the thing that I always joke about is when, you know, fans are chanting refuse suck. It's like, no, you should be saying they're good at their jobs and then they like you and want to give you power plays. Exactly. Exactly.

I like, I mentioned this during game five, but like I want to see the first NHL arena where the fans go apoplectic and they chant refuse suck and then they see the replay on the Jumbotron and they realize that they, the refs got it. Right. And then I want to hear a chant referencing that. Like, hey, we're sorry. That's on us. Yeah. Just that's on us. Our bad.

Our bad. Just give me that once. I've said this before. If any NHL crowd, like any fan base ever developed the reputation of actually being smart about calls and like where you could say like, oh, when they boo, it's because the ref really did miss something. That would be like the most massively powerful. mice advantage. Yeah, absolutely. But it will never happen because, like, you know, what, like a guy club someone else over the head with their stick on the opening face off and gets a penalty and the crowd immediately starts doing the refuse suck chant. And it's like,

yeah, no, exactly. Like, all you need to know about it is there's, there's Avalanche fans defending, uh, cadre. Oh, he didn't deserve to get rung up for that much. There's, there's, there's Capitals fans who, who go, oh, Tom Wilson has never, literally never done anything wrong. He just plays hard and all that shit. And it's like, yeah, no, if you're a fan of a team, you're too stupid to, like, look at a, look at a tripping penalty and be like, you know what, fair enough. Speaking of which, have we heard anything on, on Pilat, on that hit on Peschi? You know, I will look it up because I do not believe that we did. We've got, you know, there's a few days off for Tampa, but that's one that I think they won't get.

Yeah. NHL players said, yeah, I mean, it looked pretty bad. because the next game is the next day, so maybe they take an extra day. But I haven't seen anything certainly saying he's getting a hearing, but I also, sometimes you see the tweet from somebody saying, all clear.

Because that one wasn't, it wasn't caddry, but it's, that absolutely. Pretty bad. Okay. A couple of awards thingies. I mean, I actually just won awards thingy. The Norris came out today,

and Victor had been, was nominated for it. it. He was not on my ballot. I got to be honest with you. I was a voter this year. Or it was only a hundred of us if you didn't hear that because they, you know, tried to kind of laser-focused it on the different divisions because of the way the season went. And Emily and I are both kind of like at-large national voters. Hadbin was not on my ballot. I didn't think that he had a year as good as his standards are. And I didn't think he had a year as good as some other defensemen's years were. But he is your Patrice Bergeron-esque put it. in pencil before the season as a finalist name. And he makes the top three. Yeah, the thing I think about that. The thing I think back to is when we did like mid-season awards picks,

you had headman as one of your three or four or five guys, whatever. And I was like, yeah, but he's like playing badly. And you said, well, right, but I mean, he usually figures it out before the end of the season. And it's like, yep, that's, people were just like, I'll figure it out next year. Fuck it. You know, like, it's a total reputation call in that set. But he usually does figure it out by the end of the season, but then I looked up like,

oh, fuck, the season's got like 13 games left. And then he was terrible. Yeah. And, like, let's put it this way. There were articles in which he said, oh, I haven't been good this year. And it's not because I'm playing hurt, wink. And then, like, two weeks later, they were like, oh, it's because he was playing hurt this whole time. I don't know if you knew about this.

And so, like, this is the easiest season where, again, Victor Headman is a world-class defenseman who had a bad year in part because he was hurt. And so you have the easy excuse. This is the year I look elsewhere. And whatever, 60% of

pHWA voters were like, well, I didn't fucking pay attention to any of that shit this year. Who I care? And like, I literally said on the thing, like, when the ballots come out, look and see who had him in their top three. Those are the guys you know for sure didn't fucking pay attention this year.

For sure. And Pierre LeBron two minutes later was like, look, I had all three of these guys in my top three. So it's like, no, yeah, exactly. I had, I mean, if we say Pierre LeBron doesn't pay attention, then I don't. Well, what other possible reason would you have to put it in the top three? Look, here's the thing. Victor Hedman is, most people would agree. the, if not one of the best defensemen in the league, in terms of if you were starting a team and you had one season of play, he's the guy you're going to pick. Didn't have a great year by his standards,

but he's kind of the default setting for what people think of as a great defenseman. And the reality is you look around at the rest, if this was a year where there were other guys having real dominant years, then, yeah, he doesn't get the votes. But it's been a weird. year where first of all, there weren't any like, you know,

Adam Fox had the big breakout, but there wasn't like a John Carlson type year where somebody just, you know, just had everything, everything going in, racks up the big point totals the voters want. There were,

the other main can, I mean, Kel McCar is great, obviously, but now you're getting, there's a lot of young guys, and this has always been an award that has a certain level

of lifetime achievement to it. So I'm not surprised that given how, the whole thing played out that some writers are going to look at it and say, yeah, there's a lot of young guys here that, yeah, who knows? I mean, is this going to be our give Jim Carrey the Vezina moment if we give it to some younger guy who's not all that proven? I'm going to find a spot on my ballot for one or two. Comfort food, great defensemen that I know we're really good. And so vote for fucking Drew Doughty then. Who gives a shit at that point? Like if you're just saying, you know what? It's a reputation thing, sure. But like... I don't know.

Reputation plays into it. Because voters want votes that are going to hold up well. They don't want to look back and be like, oh, yeah, remember that year we gave Chris Kuhnitz one of the All-Star slots. And maybe it shouldn't be that way. I absolutely think you to make a case for that. But it's just this idea that people don't watch or they don't pay attention. There's no explanation for a guy who admitted he wasn't good this year in the

the media on the same site you work for. Right, but by his standards, he's usually a top three or four defensemen in the league. And this year, he was like, oh, I wasn't close to that. It's like, no, that's right. You're maybe like a top 15 defenseman in the league this year. Maybe even top 10. But like, I think, I think what Ryan, I think Ryan, where you're, where you're, I do think this might be one of those like eye tests tests type deals.

Like, you watch Victor had been play. he's Victor Hedman. He does his Victor Hedman things. He's quite good. You get into the numbers of it and you realize that it really was not a very good year for him by his standards and was not a good year Go ahead.

Well, you know, by his standards, you know, if that's what we're saying, like it wasn't a good year, except he racked up a lot of assists. That's it. And if we want to say, you know what, I just, I just sorted by points. Well, fair and fucking fair enough.

guess, you know, but just say that that's what you did, I guess, is my point, because in much the same way, the Vesna Award this year, the goalies that were nominated, I'm sure total coincidence were the three guys with the most wins in the league. Well, that's not the HBWA. And that's always the case. Oh, I understand. And it's the GMs. And the GMs, I disagree with their picks quite often.

and I think they emphasize the wrong things. It doesn't mean the GMs aren't watching hockey because they pick guys that I wouldn't have picked for the award. Well, this year in particular, I feel like, how many times have we heard? Oh, you know, I've only watched the teams I've played this year. It's happened. It's come up a lot.

So like the idea that GM is just even more so going to lean into, well, we'll just sort by wins and go for. there. Like, but, you know, the thing is, on Sean's reputation point, where this gets interesting is a drop-off for a guy like headman, what does that still mean commiserate to the rest of the league? Like, we've talked about this with Bergeron before. Like, he's had seasons where he's not been Bergeron, but he's still, like, leaps and bounds

better than most defensive forwards in this league. And so I don't, I get, if you wanted to put headman on your ballot, maybe I take some issue if you have him first. But if you wanted to put him on and just say, you know, he wasn't himself, but he was still better than most, I can maybe get down with that. I didn't have him on mine. But if you, I think Ryan, where you're right is like if the people that might have him first, like, you got to get into the numbers a little bit and realize what you're voting for here. Yeah, like either take it seriously or say I'm not going to vote anymore because I'm not taking it seriously. and I'd like a writer who will to do it instead.

Well, I think most take it seriously. I just think that maybe people have different standards for it. Like, I agree with Sean. Like, Pierre takes it seriously. He just maybe doesn't approach the evaluation. And there's going to be, again, like, and we're going to do this stupid dance when the ballots come out where everyone's going to go combing through looking for it.

And yeah, there'll be a couple of writers that'll have done, done dumb things just to get attention and get a call. them out of it. But most people put a lot of work into this stuff. And I'm sorry if the results don't match what you personally would have done. And it's very possible that you're right and they're wrong. That's happened a lot. But people put a lot of work into this. I don't have a ballot this year, by the way. I know people are probably wondering where I didn't have to do it. So I'm coming at this fresh. I don't know where I would have had to head men if I would have had them at all.

But I don't know. I know a lot of people who vote on this stuff, and I don't know anyone who just tosses it off in a couple of minutes the way people seem to think. I did have a ballot, and I could tell you my top three were, in fact, Ty Smith, P.K. Sue Bann, and Damon Severson. Wow. I think I'm good.

Very reasonable. All right. A couple more things. First of all, I believe it's July 8th is the date. national holiday in both US and Canada, it is the day that season two of I think you should leave hits.

July 6, by the way. Is it 6? Yeah. Okay. Because it's like a, it's, I remember being like, it's, oh, it's after 4th of July weekend. Like, but just barely. And I looked to see if that was still like,

you know, what day the 4th of July fell on? And it's like, no, it's just like the Tuesday day after 4th of July weekend. There's no. But I was like, I want to clear my fucking schedule for this. Are you worried that it's now like anticipated? One of the true joys of that show was that it snuck up on everybody.

Sure. You know? Yeah. Like, can they follow it up? Is it, can they do the, the sophomore album that so many bands. That is going to be big, but man, like, I remember, right? Like, I didn't watch it at first. It was a couple days in.

Ryan, you were selling it hard. So, like, I didn't sneak up on me. I went in and I was like, this better be the funniest damn thing ever to live up to everyone talking about it. And I was like, no, it's better. It's better. I mean, I'll be crushingly disappointed if it's not. And you know, like, it's going to hit. And 30 seconds later, idiots will be on Twitter.

Like, there wasn't anything as good as the chunky skis. It's like, good. Give it a minute. The thing that gives me pause is I remember the second season of Flight of the Concords. It was so obvious that they crammed every good idea that they had into the first season. And I'm a little bit worried about that. I'm a little bit worried about all of the A material made this perfect season of television, and now they had to come up with new shit.

And maybe it won't be as good. My answer to that is, of course, that the episode of characters that Tim Robinson did is just, just as good at, like every sketch is just as good as anything from the first season of I think you should leave. So I, and also all the stuff where they were like, oh, did you know Tim Robinson wrote this insanely funny SNL sketch? And it's one of the four he got on air. And it's like, yeah, this is insanely fucking funny.

I think, like, I'm going to trust the process on this one, I guess. In Tim, we trust. Yeah. All right, overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite for this week. We turn our attention to a bracket, created. by the hockey news, a partner of BetMGM, who did us back in March today, a full 32-te-te-team or 32-song bracket of hockey songs. Now, some of these are songs about hockey, and then some of these are songs that you

hear at hockey games. And I realize now that I'm talking this through, they clearly do. this as a March Madness gimmick, and yet the voting seems to be continuing in June? So, I don't know, man. Something went awry. Maybe they forgot about it or some shit. But anyways, it's on my Twitter, and you can find it there, and you can find it on the hockey news as Twitter, but it's a full bracket. And so we're going to do overrated, underrated, favorite, least favorite songs in this bracket that are like most of the

shit that you'd hear at an arena or they're about hockey. With the acknowledgement that we're looking at this list and we're going, yeah, I don't know what the fuck O Ellen is. And like, I don't think O'Lay, like chanting O'Lay counts as a song, really. It's what there's a song. There's an O'Lay song, though, that they play. It's a goal song for some teams, I think. No.

Okay. So clearly that's not going to be on your list. What is your most overrated song from this collection? It's the number one seat. It's the hockey song. Come on. This is classic, please like my sport song. That's all it is to me.

I hear that song and I go, okay, sure. You know, Bobby score. Yeah, okay. That shit might have worked as like a game. This is like saying, oh, my favorite, my favorite scary song, The Monster Mash. It's a gimmick song, Get Lost.

Man. Wait, is that a thing? Your favorite scary song? Is that a genre? Yeah, well, ask Rob Zombie if that's a genre. He made a fucking whole career out of it. Oh, then the answer is Dragula, which should actually be on this list now, I think. Yeah, and by the way, that song Rips.

So? That song rocks. Yeah, well, it, I would say it digs through the witches and burns through the witches and slams. Yeah. In the back of my Dracula. Hockey song's great. I would agree that if that's, song came out like now, you'd be like, why are you doing this?

But considering it's 50 years old or whatever, it's a good song. My overrated is Seven Nation Army. I don't understand why this, it's fine. I'm not like a huge white stripes guy, but that's, sure. I'm not going to say it's a bad song, but I don't understand why it became like this arena staple in every sport. I don't know. It doesn't work. It's that baseline.

It's the baseline. That's it. It's baseline. But like is that, does that get you like out of your seat and like ready to watch hockey or, you know, see somebody get their head cracked open? Well, the worldwide evidence. The worldwide evidence would suggest that yes, it definitely is. I guess. Oh, that's the thing I like about it is that it's, it's graduated from song into chant.

Yes. Like now the chance just happened and you don't even need the song as a prime. They happen all the time at Islanders games just on their own, which I think is really cool. But it may speak to why it's an overrated song and the fact that it's now superfluous. It's not necessary. There you go. Save yourself on those licensing fees and just do it. Overrated for me is Sandstorm.

Enough. Yeah. Yeah, that sucks. Named after famed L.A. King's. Swinger Thomas Sandstorm, who went on to a career as a crappy European teacher. Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to underrated Devils forward, Patrick Sunstorm.

Yeah. He was good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sandstorm, I feel like we've come so far in the world of electronic music that we don't have to do this anymore. We can go with other stuff.

So that's my overrated This Sandstorm Underrated Ryan This is a tough one Because I'm looking at this list And there's like a lot of song You know what I'm going to say I'm assuming that sweetness

Is the Jimmy World Song Sweetness, right? Yeah, that song's fucking awesome That was my underrated I'll just I'll jump the queue and say That was what I was going to pick That song fucking rules That's so good. I imagine like in an or no idea what song that is.

If you played NHL 2003, or four maybe, around that era, you have 100% heard this song a million times. It was, it was on the soundtrack. You'll recognize it instantly. It rocks. It is peak emo. Like it is just like the heart, heart's not even on your sleeve. Like your entire outfit is the heart at this point. It's so good.

and so of its moment and probably just cranks over arena speakers too. So sweetness is mine as well. That's a good one. Underrated. My underrated was we talked a little bit off air

about Big League by Tom Cochran which is a great song and one of the, you know, you Americans took life as a highway and ruined it by turning into a crappy country song so this is a,

it's a fantastic song but I, and I was headed on my list as my underrated, but I'm not convinced, like, the topic is arena songs, and I'm not convinced it's a great arena song. So I'm going to go with one that they had as a pretty high seed, which is get ready for this. Classic early 90s, perfect, like, arena, like the 93-lems are stepping on it. Yeah. That's the jock jam song, right? Yeah. It is the jog, which, hey, just jock jams as a genre of music is pretty stacked.

So when you are the jock jam song, respect. Yeah, the only way to beat it in terms of jock jams is that, you know, Michael Jordan era bulls entrance music is like, fuck, man. But that's only good for the bulls. I mean, you ever hear about a hot game and you're like, what are you doing? Yeah. Yeah, like it became icon. with that one team and now it's like

well you can't. It's like if a different wrestler came out to the John scene of Rapadoo thing, you'd be like, get out of here. Exactly what it is. This is not the Rapidoo, man. Favorite song, right?

This is a tough one because there's Metallica. There's ACDC. There's the Oz man himself, Ozzy Osbourne. But I, I think I have to go with for whom the belt holes. Fucking song's incredible.

It really is. The intro is good, but like also, the middle part of the song is good, the chorus is good, the bridge is good. What I'm saying is, you can take that, like, any part of that song and make it part of your arena pump up thing, and it works. Like, oh, they're coming out onto the ice. here's the intro to for whom the bell tolls. Oh, they're about to start a power play.

Here's the chorus for whom the bell tolls. Like, it just works no matter where you start it, I guess, is the point. And we should mention that there is a couple of different categories of songs in this bracket. Like, they haven't parsed it out this way. Maybe they should have made these regions. But I think I grouped together like Hell's Bells and Crazy Train and for whom the bell tolls together. Like, there's songs to have a break. Intros. No, no, no, they have like great intros. Like, like, even though the beginning of Crazy Train isn't the hard rockin part, the minute you hear all the board, it's iconic. And everybody in the arena perks up when they hear it. Yeah. Because they know it's going to start slamming in about 15 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. It's like there's, we've talked about how like wrestling entrance songs, the first three seconds is the key. And I feel like arena songs are kind of like that. You've either got to have, even.

the ones that have a long build, I need to know right away what I'm in for. You can't meander around. Like, you got to get right to it. The reason I didn't pick Hell's Bells, by the way, which is an incredible song, great arena song, is it's not the best ACDC arena pump up song, which is, of course, Thunderstruck. Damn right. Favorite.

I mean, Sean, should we just skip this? I mean, it's obviously Welcome to the Jungle. Welcome to the Jungle is the obvious one. 35 years old and it's still to go to pretty kickoff song in like half the NFL arenas. It's near perfect. I do have to say, yeah, exactly. And you feel welcome, right? Because you might be a little intimidated.

Well, he does say, welcome to the jungle, you're going to die. You're going to die. It's an explicit threat. You know, there's fun and games. So, I mean, it's. The problem is you do have to learn to live like an animal, you know? And, like, I don't know. I don't always feel like I want to put in that effort.

He's whatever you need, Ryan, because he's got it. The problem is, is, like, you have to put an effort because you can get the bright lights, but you can't get them for free. The rest of this podcast is just going to be us reading the lyrics. Yeah, just doing a 1987 riff on. We're in front of a brick wall. Seven minutes. It's going to be.

But the shana, nah, nah, nah. Okay, anyways. But I do want to say very, very close honorable mention to Andrew Sandman, which is, to me, it's an A-level hockey, basketball, football, and an A-plus-plus baseball, even though Mariana Rivera kind of made it a little too much his own, right? And yet, an S-tier wrestling entrance. because when you watch ECW pay-per-views

on WWE network and they dub it over with some generic fucking song, you're like, this sucks. Yeah. Did you know, by the way? I'm sure you guys did. But I did that the Sandman originally was like a surfer gimmick. Yes.

And that's why it was the set. I found that out just like a week ago and it blew my mind that like him coming out like as a surfboard. He's the sandman. surfboard. All right. My favorite from this list,

I want to give a shout out to enter Sandman, like you said, and I want to give a shout out to Crazy Train like we talked about. But I'm going to keep it simple, man. There's nothing more inspiring than hearing an entire arena sing Weble Rock You. Not just hearing the beat, but hearing the arena sing it is one of my favorite things.

So I can't, I can't, I mean, it's chalk, right? It's like betting the favorite, but we will rock you as my favorite. It's another gimmick song by a gimmick band. You know, it's the, it's the thing. They have like nine songs that get played by, in arenas. And it's like, yeah, no, we know there's like the drum part and then you, you chant. And okay, yeah, great. Like the whole uver there is is just

Kind of design for that sort of thing Well it's designed to get over When performed in like a massive stadium Which I think kind of kicks ass It just happens that that correlates pretty well to Sports arenas You know what I think it is I think that fucking movie was so bad that I just hate Queen

Reflectively now Like I just I just hear a Queen song And I go oh we fucking get it with the big teeth. I know. I got it. That's fine. All right. Least favorite song here. This is a tough one. But this is a band I have never gotten ever in my whole life. And as someone who recently discovered he likes the Grateful Dead, I kind of dread the day where Rush starts making sense to me. So Tom Sawyer, I think, is kind of a dud. Uh-oh, Sean. No, you know what, I was, I do like Tom Sawyer as an arena song, but I was never a big rush guy. So, um, yeah, uh, mine is, uh, Chelsea Dagger.

I'm just, you know what? It's, I'm tired of watching other teams win Stanley Cups. Screw all. Yeah, I don't think you have to worry about that for, for quite a while to come, Sean. Yeah. Other teams. My choice is a bit of chalk, I guess, again, and recency bias, because I look at this entire bracket and I see some of my favorite hard rock and arena songs of all time. And then I see a one season, forgettable, send the t-shirts to a third world country gimmick of Gloria from the St. Louis Blues, which obviously shouldn't even be in this bracket.

Not a bad song, not a great, but a terrible arena song. a song that will be forgotten into history like We Our Family was for the Pittsburgh Pirates in the 1970s. I think it was. Well, you seem to remember it, so. Oh, fuck off. That's not my point. Owned by your own logic, sucks.

I know. You hate to find yourself in that position. I hate being that smart, yeah. You know what? You know what I noticed about this list is we mentioned it earlier? No wrestling songs on here. Like, no, the game. that I saw, right?

And that song's incredible. That's, yeah, that's, what other ones with there, Betta? I don't know. A few others, like I was, like, no Cotton Eye Joe. Come on. Yeah, that's, I think that's fine. But, I mean, at that point, you're like, YMCA and, okay, sure. But, right, so at that point, you're like, what's the track list of Jock Jam's one?

That's, honestly, that wouldn't be a bad way to go. Yeah, that's true. The one I felt was missing was jump around by House of Pain. That is a good one. That is a good one. It also worked in Mrs. Doubtfire. Mm, well, as did Drive-Buy Fruiting's. All right.

Pierce Bronson is so fucking funny in that movie. He's so good in that movie. We love Pierce Brosnan on this podcast. Don't we, folks? All right, that's Puxie for this week. Thanks for listening. You can check out my column on ESPN.com on Thursdays. and check out all the coverage for me and Emily on the playoffs there as well.

I'll be covering the East, and she is out west, and probably not Canada this next round, but maybe Canada in the final if they make it through. Who's to say? Again, I don't think you have to worry too much about that, but okay. All right. Go ahead, Ryan. E.P.Rinkside.com. I have continued my series of what should blank that just got eliminated do with their roster

this summer. Last two days, I did the hurricanes and the jets for obvious reasons. And if you want to sign up for a year's subscription at E.P. Rinkside, I love E.P. All one word, all capital letters. I think capitalization might matter. I don't know. And you'll get an extra three months for free, which is, wow, what a deal. And also, of course, sign up for the PuckSoup Patreon, where we are doing tomorrow night at 8 p.m. Eastern, a live call-in show on our Discord where we'll, you know, take questions and people will play game shows. And we'll probably watch the start of Game 6 of the Colorado Vegas series together and all at different times because of streaming and stuff like that. So it'll be really funny when I react to a goal. And Sean's like, I'm 30 seconds behind.

Thanks. Great. So, yeah, check that. out and I have a newsletter on there. Me and Sean Gentilly do stick to sports on there. Mailbag we're about to record and then bonus episodes twice a month. So check her out. You can find my stuff on the athletic. And you can hear me on the athletic hockey show with Ian Mendez on Thursdays.

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