Puck Soup - What's The Point?

Episode Date: June 23, 2021

Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slap shots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to whatever you commute. We also cover movies, TV shows, it's in tunes. It's your weekly bowl of hockey and nonsense. I'm Greg Wischinski of ESPN, the worldwide leader in draft lotteries, which I watched the NBA's last night for some reason, because I don't know any of the players, nor do I really care about any of the teams.

But I just like a draft lottery. I've decided it's kind of fun. It's always exciting to see which teams move up and move down. Yeah, it's all be crazy. Did you see the Jalen Rose video? Yeah. He was at the game in Phoenix or whatever, and he was just hooting and hollering.

Yeah, like, I don't know. I just kind of love it. Like any draft lottery is kind of, kind of fun just to see, you know, who gets screwed and who gets angry and the reactions of all the people. At one point, I think last night, maybe it was on purpose or maybe it wasn't. We had the mics open. So you were like actively hearing other executives just be like, ah, Jesus!

As the picks come in. That's great. I love it. Yeah. Understandably. So I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. Hey, we just published the first part of our draft preview. thing. So

the problem that you mentioned about like, oh, nobody knows the freaking the players or whatever, that's also true. And I know nobody knows anything about like Owen Power, you know? So read the draft preview anyway. Sean McIndoo from the athletic

sitting up here in Canada, home of the Toronto Raptors who won one of the draft lottery picks because that's all MLSC does is win. You're in you're in puck soup. By the way, Lambert, I believe we're going to remedy that problem by

having Stephen A. Smith do all of our draft coverage. That would be good. And just, you know, having him go off and being like, you can't draft William Eklund sixth overall of your Detroit. Come on. He's mad about it. Clearly knows who that is. Well, I mean, like I've said a million times, the most amazing thing about the NHL draft is how many idiots like me try to pretend that we know what we're talking about for like a week when it comes to prospects.

Like there's, I don't want to besmirch the good name of elite prospects. I don't know how many like legit prospects people you have working there. I consider you to be one on the, on the NCAA side. I can't say that you are one on the Canadian junior side. No, of course. But there's only like what, like six people in the world that know what they're talking about. about when it comes to hockey prospects? Yeah, and even then, a lot of it, like, you can now, like, actually watch a lot of, like,

MHL games and whatever. You, like, you can watch all this stuff online now, which is helpful. Yeah. But I don't know. I guess at the same time, it's like, yeah, who has all the time to actually watch all that, you know? But I don't think there's anything wrong with. making pretend for a week, like we all know what we're talking about.

Like, what's the point of having the draft if I can't be, if I can't hot take on my winners and losers that the Blackhawks shouldn't take Cole Cillinger at 12. Well, I think the point is to get like players assigned to teams and stuff like that. I think that's the point in the draft. You know, imagine how good Montreal would be, Sean, if we had the old rules where they could just take everybody from the province and not even worry about the draft. That was totally a thing. You know what?

We should just start saying that about this Montreal team. Just it would make, it would be just as accurate as it was about the team in the, in the 50s, the 60s and 70s. So let's just be like, yeah, I mean, the only reason that they're any good is because they got territorial rights to Cole Caulfield and then just changed the subject and hope nobody knows what you're talking about because that, it tends to work. I love Cole Caulfield, but you have to admit that there's a certain like, 1990s Disney movie aspect of him being on this team.

Like, the man looks like he's 14 years old. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, when I saw him at a press conference, I think, with like, Shea Weber. And I'm just like, oh, this is somebody who won a contest and got to play for Montreal. Yeah, this is a like-mic situation for sure. It's amazing. And he's great.

He's a field ass. That's the best part about it is he's fucking fantastic. Yeah, he's so good. Oh, man. Montreal. Well, all right. So as we're doing the pod, like once again, the NHL Stanley Cup playoff schedule does not conform to the schedule of Puck Soup for various and sentencing reasons. I mean, other podcast schedules, my travel schedule, whatever, we're doing the podcast the day after Vegas blew game five at home and the day of game six between the Islanders and Lightning.

So that's your context. If we say something that is completely outdated by the time you hear this, that's the reason. reason why. So I guess let's start off with the freshest meat, which is Vegas, making copious amounts of errors in front of Mark Andre Fleury in game five and blowing it on home ice and pretty much handing Montreal the series, I think. Yeah, it feels that way, doesn't it? It kind of does. I mean, yeah, I don't know if I'd necessarily say Vegas blew it. Montreal played great.

Montreal's played great two games in a row. They've, I mean, they dominated a lot of game four, lost in overtime. And they were easily the better team in game five. Absolutely. But I think what we mean when we say Vegas Blue it is obviously they are the favorite in the series. but also that like the game was played on Montreal's terms. Yes. Like I think...

Montreal's been real good at doing that to team. Oh, no, for sure. But I think shots at the end of the first period were like 8 to 5 or something. And I was like, oh, this game's fucking over. Forget about it. You know, like, Vegas, you know, obviously, in my opinion, it's not ideal to go down 3-0 in a hockey game. But like Vegas only shots.

showed up for the third period, and you, you know, you can't get away with that. So I meant blue it in the sense of the nature of the goals that Montreal was able to score to build that lead, like to, I thought, egregious defensive assignment blown coverage type deals leading to goals. And you're, I mean, I know that saying that takes the credit away from Montreal, and, you know, I feel like I've done enough of that this playoff, better enough to continue to do it. but I do think that there is something that he said for Vegas just being out of sorts. And yeah, a lot of that is what Montreal is doing to them, especially on the forecheck.

But like, I think a lot of it is just also Vegas just getting sloppy at the wrong time. Yeah, I mean, right. It's the same thing that happened to Winnipeg against Montreal or it's like, oh, boy, we're giving up a lot of odd man rushes and breakaways and stuff like that. We should stop doing that. You know, like that's the. obvious thing to say, but also, you know, if it keeps happening, obviously that's just like kind of Montreal's game plan is we're going to give up as few shots as possible and try to

break the puck out and find seams and stuff like that. And it's working again, which is not anything I think anybody really expected to keep happening, but obviously here we are. Sean, year old, do you remember 1995 when my devils won the cup? Was there a certain feeling amongst the hockey world that you can recall where people were like, Detroit's our last hope to not have a team that plays this way win the cup? I don't remember that because in 1995, the devils, first of all, the idea that the Devils were this deathly dull team didn't really, I'm not going to say it didn't exist back then, it certainly did, but it wasn't a dominant narrative. That's sort of been piled on over the years, partly because we've seen what the league turned into.

Right. I remember it a little bit more with the Panthers the next year, but I think the thing with the Devils was the Devils felt like an outlier. Remember, we were one year removed from this big star-studded Ranger team that was, that had just won the cup. We were two years removed from 93. Why the NHL's hot and the NBA is not, I believe, two years removed from 93, which is the, quite possibly, I've argued, the most entertaining season ever, a few years removed from the heights of the 80s where there was seven or eight goals a game being scored.

So the idea that this super defensive team, if that's even what you thought they were, was going to win the cup didn't feel like a problem. It felt like if anything, it was a correction. It was like, oh, yeah, that's right. You can still play to have defense and goaltending and can win. And none of us were sitting there going, oh, this is going to usher in 25 years

and counting of dead puck era where this becomes how every team plays. Whereas now we're so used to it that a team like Montreal comes along and does it even more than everyone else already does, it's kind of like, oh, Christ, here we go. This is, this is going to be, this is just going to be the new, the new thing. I think this playoff has been very interesting because I feel like there's been a lot more discussion.

Well, I mean, there's obviously been a lot of discussion about the officiating, which we can get to a little bit later. But I feel like there's been a lot more discussion about the NHL as two different sports. You know, you have a regular season in NHL and you have a playoff NHL, which I know that we always kind of talk around in the aggregate about you've got to be. build your team to win in the playoffs. And, you know, you got the playoffs are a war of attrition and blah, blah, blah. But I feel like there's been a lot more tacit acknowledgement that, and maybe it's because the NHL is trying to lurch forward as a star-centric sport and an offensive sport and trying to attract new fans through the excitement of the razzle-dazzle of the regular season, that now

there is such a stark contrast between that modus operandi and what the playoffs are that I feel like there's been a lot more acknowledgement of that this time around for some reason. Am I wrong on that? I don't think you're, I don't think you're wrong. I mean, I guess it's, it sort of depends where the acknowledgement's coming from. We've always heard this. Playoffs is a different beast. And usually when people say it, it's meant as a good thing. It's like, you know, the game gets elevated, it's this and that. And you hear from the NHL itself to some extent. They like to push this. I got to tell you, man, this can't. be good marketing for the edge. Put aside the excitement, put aside, you know, whether

defense or whatever else, whether you think these teams are fun to watch or not. You're a league that gets most of your revenue from the gate and most of your gate revenue comes from the regular season and you are increasingly hammering home that none of that matters. None of what happens in the regular season matters except to figure out which 16 teams are going to move on to the totally different playoffs in which 15, soon to be 16, will not get to be part of that. And it's six months to figure that out. And then two months to get to all the good stuff, I can't imagine that the NHL is sitting

there thinking, oh, this is a really great message. We want to let everybody know, show up for opening night and strap in for six months that we'll have nothing to do with what ultimately matters by the end of it. Yeah, I mean, this has been a long-standing. I remember what in the early days of Puck Daddy, relatively early, I guess. I wrote an article that was basically like, boy, we don't act like winning the president's trophy means anything. And it's actually an incredible accomplishment to have the best record after 82 games. And all these people were like, that's because the regular season doesn't matter and what only matters is the playoffs.

And it's like, right, but like that's not how it should be viewed. is my argument, right? Like, we should, we should act like, oh, damn, getting a bunch of wins in the regular season. Like, that's really fucking hard to do. It's, you know, we've seen a million teams where we go, I mean, they're not very good, but here they are in the conference finals, or now a game away from the Stanley Cup, or whatever you want to say. And nobody even coming into this playoffs in Montreal was like, this team is easily,

one of the four best, you know what I mean? Like, nobody would have said that, and they would be right. And that was only based on 56 games and also all the seasons before when the Montreal Canadians were unwatchable. And so, you know, it's really tough that you're, that, you know, you're right, that it's a situation where you're going, yeah, I mean, sure, seeding matters, but what really matters does it. It's being built to win and all this shit.

And it's like, cool. And it's going to be, like, in a way, this is going to be a bit of a perfect storm. Let's say Montreal wins the cup. And with the obvious caveat that if you're a Montreal fan, you don't care about any of this. You're going to win the cup. You're going to be happy. You're going to go to the parade if there is one. You don't, you have no responsibility to care about anyone else's entertainment value or whatever.

But for everybody else, it'll be, first of all, it'll be the second time in three years that a team that was bad in the regular season wins the cup. The Blues were kind of a different deal because they were bad for a half and then got good as the second half were on and by the playoffs you were like, yeah, maybe, you know, they might have a thing here. But this will be a team that they were better down the stretch,

but this would be a team that legitimately wasn't good during the season. They win, it'll also be two years in a row that we've had shortened seasons. We haven't had an 82 game season in, it'll be, you know, two plus years by the time we start again, there's the potential that by next year

we're going to get to like game 70. And if it's like this year, there'll be like one playoff race left. And everyone else is sitting around going like, holy crap, is this a long season to get through for not much of anything? Just to get to the playoffs where, like I said, all the stuff that we've all agreed matters happens.

Because like Brian said, we all, right or wrong, we all agreed as hockey fans long ago that regular season doesn't matter. President's trophy doesn't matter. matter. The cup is all that matters. And if the playoffs is going to be this totally different piece, I'm not convinced that it

is as much as we're saying it is, but if that's going to be the narrative, good luck selling your fan base on a six-month 80-plus game season that you've just taught them ultimately isn't really going to matter all that much. Tough sell. It's an interesting point. Because, I mean, again, like, I feel like your point before was the real. really good one, which is that we've always treated the playoffs are a different animal. It's the greatest tournament in sports, yada, yada, yada, as a net positive for the

NHL, but like at what cost when you're trying to push the sport forward to new audiences based on, hey, come watch Connor McDavid. Well, he's not here. You know, and either is Dawson Matthews. There's any of these people. Yeah, come watch this awesome, the regular season, too. You know, and look, it all gets down to the same. I don't even think it's a debate

because a debate implies that there's a right answer. It's an opinion thing. I know, I know absolutely from lots of interactions I've had over the years that there are fans who love the idea of a Stanley Cup playoffs that is completely unpredictable where you have no idea who's going to win.

The worst team has pretty much the same chance at the cup as the best team. Who knows, you've got to watch every night because on any given night, any team can beat any other team, and it's wild and unpredictable, and it's going to take a billion twists and turns. And there are other fans who look at that and go, this is getting close to being random.

Why am I invested in this if none of what I think I know about these teams matters? We're about to, pretty soon this tournament's going to be over. Some teams are going to win the Stanley Cup. We're going to go in the offseason. And oh, should they sign this guy? Who should trade for Eichol? Who should they draft? And in the back of your mind, you might be sitting there going, but does any of that actually matter?

Or is it just going to be, this is the whole point of this league to be one of the 16 teams that has a one in 16 chance? Some fans love that. I get it. Some fans really wish it wasn't like that. There feels like there's a middle ground somewhere. I know a lot of people point to the NBA, which has a reputation fair or not for being a league where a lot of times it feels like you know who the two finalists are going to be before the playoffs even starts. Yeah, outside of this year. And certainly not this year.

But, you know, there was a time where it was like, oh, it's Golden State against LeBron's team. You're crazy. Who could have seen that coming? I want to just shout out, though, that we might be dealing with a little bit of recency bias here. Because it's not as if we haven't had Sidney Crosby, Alex Ovechkin, Patrick Kane and, like, a few others, like, super star-level players, play for the cup. You know, like, Stamcoast has played for the cup. You know, like, there are, there are.

I'm not, I'm not, it's not even star players. It's just, you know, sit somebody down who's not a hockey fan. They know nothing about it. Show them the standings on night one of the playoffs and go, what do you think is going to happen? And then, like, they should be able to figure some of it out. And if it turns out, yeah, it's like, no. Oh, yeah, the team with 120 points, yeah, they don't even win a playoff game. And this happened and that, it's, it's, again, some people love it.

I get it. And I know every time I even mention this, people go like, well, what do people love about March Madness, right? The upsets. And my argument is always the reason the upsets are cool in March Madness is because there's not 16 of them. There's, they're rare enough that it feels like they matter.

Yeah, and to your point about the NBA playoffs, like, the reason it feels like an inevitability that the two or two of the three best teams in the league are going to play each other in the NBA finals is because the better team wins, like 80 plus percent of the time.

And in hockey, what is it, more like 55, 60? You know? Like, and again, uh, we just went through a second, we're in the middle of a second fake playoff. Um, that, like,

I don't know how you look at, how you look at the results and it's like, oh yeah, none of the number one seeds, uh, even were particularly close to being in the conference. finals this year, you know. That's true. That's a very good point.

I mean, like, I think, you know, sometimes you look at Tampa and you're like, oh, that, well, that's clearly like, we assume that's the best team in the division, but they didn't finish first. They didn't even have home ice. Now, my understanding is they famously had a player who was like an MVP caliber candidate who didn't play. That's true. I hadn't heard of that.

It feels like people would have mentioned that. I heard whispers of that, but I couldn't confirm before the podcast started. But no, you're right. about the other teams. I mean, like, obviously the division champs in the regular season didn't get a sniff. Yeah, and like all, you know, Colorado is obviously, they tied Vegas in the regular season for the best record in the league. So, like, that's a bit of a cheat. But, you know, things would be different if they played the full 82. Things would be a lot, like, in theory, Montreal would not have made the playoffs with how they played under Dominique Ducharm in the regular season. They were a game below 500

After Douchon was hired And that's NHL 500 By the way, that's not like real 500 So like they They I think it was DJ Bean pointed out that They are four wins away from Being 500 on the season

That's great That's how bad the Montreal Canadians were in the regular season And you can't Like yeah To Sean's point If you're a Canadian fan What do you give a shit?

You don't give a shit. Just like I didn't give a shit in 95 as a devil's fan. Like, I don't know the history. Like, were they not good in the regular season that year? No, no, no. The devils, they were a good team, right? But like, at the same time, they were playing a style of hockey in which you didn't think it was sustainable that they could keep. And you certainly didn't think that they could beat Detroit.

There's two issues with Montreal that get conflated with this Montreal run. one is the style of play. Is this a boring team that just grinds the other team down and is awful to walk? And I can't comment on that because they beat my team. So I'm just a sore loser. And it's sorry. So I will leave it to you guys. Sounds like you're pretty on the fence on it.

But. And then there is the separate issue that is a related issue of this is the 18th best team of the league that has lost more games than it won. And they might be about to win the stand. the Cup is that good for the game. Now, I say they're related because, let's be honest, there's no world where the 18th best team in the NHL goes, you know how we're going to win in the playoffs? Let's go up and down the ice, play high event, action-packed hockey. If you're the 18th best team, you grind it down and try to. And yeah, there's skill involved in that. It's not like, and it's Montreal's not just clutching and grabbing and tackling guys. They are really,

That was only the first round. They're a really committed defensive team, and they're ferocious four checkers, and they have speed and the transit, all that stuff. A lot of that applies to the Islanders, too. But I don't know, man. If some new fan sat down last night and you were like, hey, who's playing? And you're like, well, there's this Vegas team, and they're really good. They were one of the best teams in the league, and everyone thought they were going to win.

But they're playing this 18th place team, and that 18th place team is giving them all they can handle. that fan might be like, hell yeah, I want to watch this underdog. Let's watch this scrappy. You watch the first period of that game. You think that new fan is like, I want to watch more of this scrappy underdog, or do you think they're like what is on another channel? And you know, your point out of the island is interesting. You're flipping over, absolutely.

Your point about the islandress is an interesting one because isn't this Canadians team just the end result of a years-long philosophy on how to play? I mean, this is a Claude Julian team without Claude Julian. Yes. Yeah. And like the Islanders are another team where every, we talked about it last week, every year down the stretch under Barry Trots, they've kind of not been that impressive. They have this big run in like relatively early in the season where they get points in 14 out of 17 or whatever it is.

And they're like, okay, we're set. We can throw it into cruise control for the back third of the season. and, you know, it's not really that inspiring. And then they turn it on again in the playoffs. And it has totally convinced a good percentage of the league, well, we can play that way. Columbus is a great example. Calgary under Darrell Sutter is a great example. Montreal is a great example.

And it's like, you know, it's working for Montreal, but like you can see the teams that are more built this. way as opposed to playing this way by necessity, I guess you'd say. Those teams suck. The Columbus Blue Jackets and the Calgary Flames are terrible. So, you know, like the idea of, oh, well, the Islanders are the blueprint. And it's like, I don't think they are. I don't think they can be. I'm really fascinated to Zend again.

We're kind of getting ahead of ourselves on Montreal, maybe, because they may not even win this series. They're going to win the cup. I mean, let's just. But they are going to win the cup. And I'm fascinated to see how teams attempt to copy this. Because we know this is the theme in the NHL, right? It's the copycat league.

A big team won, we all got to get big. Okay, this team did something different. Let's all do that. I'm fascinated to see what teams actually do to try to copy the Montreal model. I know what they're going to say, which is where this is going to be just like when the Blues won. It's going to be every bad team with a dumb GM is going to tell its fans that they're just the next. next Montreal, they can sneak into the playoffs, but we're, you know, when it's three months into the season and everyone's calling for the GM to get fired, you'll go, no, no, this team is

built for the playoffs. You wait to see. What percentage of the league is a bad team with a dumb GM? What is that? 75%. Pretty high, pretty high number. And this is what they're all going to sell, right? And, you know, we just got to get into the playoffs.

And then once we get there, who knows, and maybe this and that. But as far as what you actually, like, okay, let's. say you're your GM in the NHL, Montreal wins the cup, your owner calls the end of the office and says, hey, how come they won? I want to be like them. Like, what do you do? What move do you go out and make? I guess you go and get the most expensive goal you can find. Yeah. Where's Sergei Robovsky and all this? Yeah. The only thing I can think that you would actually be able to do is you go out, it's going to be very good news for depth veterans who have cup rings and probably bad news for depth veterans who don't have rings because there's like the two schools of

thought one is you get the guys with the rings because they know how to win the other is you get the guys without rings because they're really hungry and motivated and the young players will see how much it means to them and the Leafs tried that and the Canadians went with the rings and you know we see how it turned out so right but good news if you're right gets laugh great news but right but that's the point right and I wrote about this this week of like it is it's going to be very easy for a lot of teams, including the Montreal Canadians, to take the wrong lessons from this, right? Like, they're, like, to your point about, oh, they went out and got guys with cup rings,

it's like, Corey Perry and Eric Stahl aren't the reason this team is any good. They're fine. Like, they, they've, but. They won cups 15 years ago. Like, what's... Right. Yeah, I mean, they won cups in the first two seasons that there was a salary. cap and that salary cap at the time. You're going to tell, like, what are you going to tell

Cole Caulfield and Kotkenabby? Let me tell you something about 2006. Yeah, please do. I was four years old, so I was really fascinated to hear what you're going to tell me, Grandpa. Yeah, and I'm not, again, I'm not saying, like that, that play Perry made last night to Caulfield for the goal that just made it academic, like the rest of the game, that was a really good play. And do I think that's a play that happens because Well, Corey Perry's been in the league 17 years and he knows how to, you know, no, I don't think that's the case. I think that's a situation. Sean, do you think that Toronto fucked up by getting old guys without rings instead of old guys with rings?

No, but that's going to be what the lesson will be. I don't, I don't think it necessarily matters a ton either way. I think it's silly to think that Cory Perry secretly knows what it takes to win and I guess just forgot to tell all his teammates on the ducks for 14 years when they were the team that always choked in game seven. I guess he just forgot to let him know. He forgot. He remembered when he got to Montreal. The thing about Cory Perry, though, like in watching it for the last two years, there is

something to be said for the win-at-all-costs guy that has a ring. Like, that motherfucker does everything possible to help his team win a game in the playoffs, like nefariously or above board. I mean, there is something to be said for that. I mean, like, yeah, and you can, you can point out while Corey Perry went to a cup final last year, and so blah, blah, blah, but it's like, again, like the Dallas, speaking of fluke teams that made the, the cup final, but the Dallas stars weren't good because Cory Perry was any good, and in fact, Corey Perry was bad last year. Yeah. And by the way, just, you mentioned Dallas and that he, Montreal makes the final and loses. You know, Montreal makes final wins.

Okay, obviously, that's, that's everything. If they make the final and lose, there's a really long list of NHL underdogs that have made the final lost. And then... Never done anything. Never came to. We're pretty much forgotten, too. Like, no, it wasn't like they...

So I'm really interested to see that because I know some people, and I'm probably one of them, are already looking at Montreal going, this is going to have repercussions in the whole league and how everything. is viewed for years and years and years and years. And it might not because, I mean, Dallas only the latest in a very long string of underdog runs that go to the final. And in some cases, go very deep into the final,

even to a game seven. And then they lose. And everyone's like, oh, okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I mean, Dallas didn't make the playoffs this year. And, you know, going, like, this is the thing I keep saying is,

like, Montreal barely made the playoffs in a fucking division with the Calgary Flames. Vancouver Canucks and Ottawa senators, right? I might say that's why they made the playoffs. Well, that's what I'm saying. And they almost didn't, right? And so the idea that next year... They had fewer wins than the Calgary Flames.

Right. And the idea that next year, they go into a division with Boston, Toronto, Tampa, Florida, right? And then they... So they're not finishing top three in that in all likelihood. We all agree with that, right? So, okay, their only way in... is the wild card, and so they have to be one of those teams in their division, but also two of Pittsburgh, Philly, the Rangers, the Islanders, and Carolina.

Yeah. And the Devils, obviously. Sure, yeah, and look, the Buffalo Sabres, who knows what they're going to do next year. But, like, the odds that these guys don't make the playoffs next season is, like, very high, I feel like. Yeah. So it's possible that the, you know, fabric of the NHL won't be torn by a Montreal win. Speaking of fabric, kick off your summer in style. It was okay.

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MacWeldon reinventing men's basics. I mentioned I was in Tampa, which means that I was in fact at the 8-0 game. Holy shit. That was something to behold, man. That was one of those games where the inevitability hit in the 15-minute mark of the first period. Oh, I think it was...

The second Stamco scored, I was like, this game's over. It's done. It was crazy. I got to say, it's really to the point for me where it's like, well, if Montreal or the Islanders score first, I'm like, we can shut this off. Nothing's going to happen the entire rest of this game. And if the other team scores first, I'm like, well, I mean, those teams, the underdogs have a chance, but not really. My favorite thing that's happened in the entire playoffs so far, I think, was the Tampa Bay

Lightning fans in the third period of the eight-nothing games. game chanting you got Tampa after the Islanders fans chanted. That was really good. We want Tampa at the end of the Boston series. That was fucking phenomenal and completely organic. It's the thing that I missed the most in the

like empty arena shit that we've had to deal with in last year was those spontaneous beautiful moments from fans. I guess I missed hugging my family, but okay. Well, I mean, from a hockey context. I mean, I have to say probably, you know. So that was, that was a bit of a joke. Again, we're doing the podcast before the game at Nassau, so who knows how that's working out. But, uh, but man, when Tampa turns it on, man, what a fucking

team. What a fucking team to watch. I really, I really wonder about the whole, well, we're going to not just, like, beat them. We're going to twist the knife. Like, doesn't that feel like they're going to lose two nothing tonight? Like, you know, like, you don't chore eight goals. Trot At your top power play unit and the third after the Barzell penalty. Yeah. I mean, there's a certain amount. I mean, fucking Luke Shen scored. I mean, once that happens, you're really spiking the football.

I don't know. It's hard to really talk about the series without knowing what happens in game six. I predicted seven games in the series and I predicted a lightning win in the end. But, you know, it was crazy to, I mean, it was sort of. I think Pete Blackburn called it where he said, like, one of these games is just going to be a bat-chip blowout, and then it ended up being Game 5 in Tampa. Really good team. If this is the end of Nassau Coliseum this week, what's your favorite memory from Nassau, Sean? Is it a building that you mourn its loss is one of the last true hockey barns?

Or is it good riddance? I don't know if I'd say that. I mean, the building had a reputation for being a shit hole. A shit hole. Like 20 years ago. I never went, by the way. I never covered a game there or went. So I can only go based on the opinions of literally everyone else, whoever sent foot in the building.

But at the same time, that certainly gave it some character and then made it a little bit different than the, all the other near identical arenas. Like every now and then, someone's like, you should do a ranking of all the arenas in the NHL. It's like, what, did 25 most recent ones are pretty much the same building. I don't know what. Hey, that's not fair. Vegas has a castle in it. Yes, right. Oh, the lightning have that, the Tesla coil that we have to actually.

Oh, I've never, I've never seen a Tesla coil before. Wow. Vegas also has the advantage of being in Vegas. I mean, that's the one thing about Nassau that's interesting to me is for those who have not Ben, it is one of your classic old arenas that was built in sort of like a giant lot. So like there's parking all around it and there's a ton of tailgating. It's like going to a football game. And I feel that's been the big sea change in arena construction in the last 30 years is the,

we're going to stick an arena in the middle of bars and restaurants and good luck finding parking kind of vibe versus like everyone just goes and parks in a giant concrete thing and then walks to the arena. And so there's a certain amount of nostalgia inherent for me, because that's growing up at the Meadowlands, like tailgating before Devil's games. Dude, I got good news for me if you ever want to come up to Ottawa and watch a game. Oh, yeah, no, exactly. And I'm sure that's the vibe, right, because you're in the middle of nowhere with that arena. So I'll miss that at Islanders game.

I mean, UBS is going to have parking, but I don't think it's the same kind of parking. But I got to tell you, there really is nothing like being at Nassau Coliseum walking up to the press box. and seeing a giant red sign that has the word asbestos on it. Like, there's just no, there's no comparison to any other arena in this league to have that be your introduction to the media area. It's great. Yeah, like, you know, the whole announcement of, like, pucks and sticks can leave the playing surface at any time. Like, they also have to say that about sealing tiles, you know? It's like, oh, no, we actually, like, the thing that I love about that, it's so much, like, fucking space jam where it's like, oh, this thing that,

we all thought sucked 15 years ago. Now it's actually really good because they're, uh, they're, they're, they're, they're replacing it with a newer version with a newer version. With a newer.

That is also, UBS is, is LeBron. Yeah. And it's going to be, and it's going to be like super homogenized and, oh, boy. That means that,

it's going to be fucking awful. Fucking awful. The low ceiling and high volume of fans at NASA are the monstars. That's the, you know, everybody just loves the monstar. from the original space. That's right.

You know, the building has its charms. One thing I'll miss is the the way the building matches the Islander's personality as a franchise. Like old glory back in the 1980s, a reputation that has faded over time, being the scrappy kind of broke down blue collar building where there's not like you walk into nassau and there's not a thing where

any of the local restaurant chains have booths where they're selling their wares it literally is a stand that just says food and drink and they sell you boxes of popcorn and that sort of generic vibe I think carries over to the franchise in relation to what the rangers are and I always appreciated that about the islanders like the islanders are nassau coliseum And when you talk to fans Filled with rats. Filled with rats. And garbage. Garbage broke down.

They're loud and brash. And you talk to any Islander's fan about, you know, that dynamic. And it's always fun to hear them talk about like, you know, the thing about us is that when we win cups, we get parades down Hempstead Turnpike. We don't get no tick of tape parades in Manhattan. And like, it's a source of pride. And again, as a devil's fan, it hits me right in the feels. because it's what we used to say about having parking lot parades when we'd win the cup. You know, it's sort of a kinship between Devils and Islanders fans that for a long time,

they were in these broke down buildings and celebrated in their fucking parking lot or their dumb street, while the Rangers were the ones that, you know, if they win a cup, their players were treated like the fucking astronauts who came back from the moon. It's a beautiful conflict between the two vibes. Yeah, and Islanders fans, I'm not. sure. Like, yes, we're exactly like Devils fans. Um, we actually love that comparison. Well, it's, I mean, it's, you know, it's a certain, it's a certain vibe where you're both sort of the secondary citizen in the, in the city to the other team. Well, it's also, I mean, it's also the thing of, uh, you've been far more successful for them than them for like 40 years. It like an aggregate.

And so you're just like, yeah, we're actually the, uh, underdogs and all this because we don't, We don't live in these fancy Manhattan sky rises right. Okay, we get it. But it's always a really fun thing. My dynamic in this town has always been that it's a Knicks town, so no matter what the Nets do, it doesn't matter. The Knicks are good. Everybody's a Knick fan.

Yeah, the Nicks don't even have to be good. They, like, made the playoffs and got destroyed by Trey Young. And everybody in New York City was like, New York Knicks number one, baby. We love it. Meanwhile, the Nets, a team nobody cares about, are legitimately one of the best teams in the NBA when everybody's healthy. And it's like, yeah, who gives it like. Who gives a shit?

Yeah. And also, I mean, you know, the thing, I guess the thing with the Nets is that it feels very mercenary, right? Like, they stole a team from New Jersey. They went out and just got, um... They were that they had the cap room. I mean, they're not... I did fall in love with that team during the KD game. when he went off.

Like, I, I, I, I, as a, the team with, like, three of the eight best players in the, that's interesting. Well, at the time, a couple of those players weren't in that game. I found, I, I, I, I really started to appreciate the totality of the roster. Well, I mean, again, it's like, oh, no, we lost James Hardin and Kyrie Irving. Well, I guess we got to put the ball in KD's hands. Like, yeah, no shit.

And Blake Griffin's hands. So, I mean, Blake Griffin, you know. Sure. So, my, my, my, my, this might just be my own biases, because, of the fan that I am. But, like, I also feel like when the Jets are good, they take over the town in a way the Giants don't. And I always feel like when the Mets are good,

they take over the town in a way the Yankees don't. Although the Mets Yankees one's a little bit wonky. I just think it's because the Mets are never good, that when they are good, it becomes sort of like seeing Haley's comment. Right. It's like, oh, good for you, sweetie. That's so nice. Congrats.

But it's always a Rangers town. It just will always be a Rangers town. Yeah, because it's the only one with a team in New York City. That's not fair to the fucking Islanders. Oh, that's terrible. You're right. The Islanders tried it in New York City and got drummed out of town. Nobody gave a shit.

The scoreboard wasn't centered over the ice and they had to put a fucking truck in the corner because it's still rigged. Well, you know what? Let's put it this way. If they were any fucking good in those years, I don't think that would have been the issue for them. I don't think anybody would have been like, you know what, I'd love to go to this team that in like second in the east, but fucking scoreboard's not centered over the ice.

Who gives a shit? Well, the problem there was that their practice facility was nowhere near the arena, too. That was part of their recruitment issue, but... Well, again, that's more of, like, do the fans give a shit about it? I would contend that the fans do not care where the practice facility is.

Remember one of the islanders tried to get all badass with those fucking black jerseys they wore with the N.Y on the front? Those are terrible, weren't they? Let's not. Let's not remember that. What was that about? I mean, I think they were trying to match the Brooklyn Nets vibe or whatever, but they were

just, those were terrible jerseys. Islanders logo is great, by the way. Don't you think the Islander's logo is like one of the best in hockey with the crest? Yeah, it's cool. The classic crest. I still having grown up or having become a hockey fan for the very first time right during the era where the Islanders and Oilers were crushing everyone, there is still like a part of me buried in my brain where if I see either of those logos at like the right angle,

I'm right back there. And I'm like, oh, no, we're going to lose 10 to 1 tonight. Which you, which is why it drives me crazy when both teams are like, let's change the logo to something else. Or let's go. Like, no, man, like those uniforms, those classic uniforms. Yeah, blue and orange. You're just like, no, no, those two colors together. Yeah, that's it.

It's just. And meanwhile, the oilers are like, what if we, what if we made the jersey orange? Oh, you don't like that? What if we made it? Navy blue. Would Navy. Yeah. Not good.

Just the worst franchise in hockey, man. It's such a fucking embarrassment. I feel like we've gotten away from Crests. For a while, the third jerseys had the... Remember the Blues had the one with the arch on it? Yeah, and Columbus had the Canon one, yeah. I always kind of like those. I agree.

I think Crests are pretty cool versus, like, just having logos in the front. I don't know. Something the Cracken should have thought of before they designed their jersey. and pick their name. You know, it's funny, we were talking about that amizam pod, the fact that, you know, Sean, they're doing a top chef in Oregon. And, like, one of the things that they were talking about is, like, the steelheads, right? Was one of the fish they were talking about?

Or were they talking about sock eyes or something? It might have been Sakai, yeah. I'm still surprised they didn't go with fish name over Cracken. I think it would have been pretty cool. Well, they needed to tie into that movie from 15 years ago. Sokyes was fucking phenomenal That's such a great name I'm still pissed off

They didn't go there Wasn't that Was that the romance novel one? It might have been Or was that the steelheads I don't remember I think it might have been The sock eyes

Yeah It was the soccer Because steelhead is like The Idaho's Yeah Idaho's Mottor League team And that's right

Yeah Yeah This This fucking league is so funny Like I was thinking about this Last night About like the whole

Remember The whole Golden Knights thing well, we want to be the Black Knights. And they're like, well, you can't be the Black Knights? That's Army. And they were like, okay, well, can we be the regular Knights? And they were like, well, that's the London Knights. The famous team, everybody knows.

And then, like, they were like, okay, we'll do Golden Knights. And, like, it kind of worked. Like, Golden Knights isn't a bad name or whatever, but it really does feel like the third down the list, you know? Right. And it's the same thing. Like, the NHL's expansion franchise, they wanted to name it something, but a shitty romance.

novelist that nobody's ever heard of was like, no, no, no. And they were like, of course not, ma'am. We would never do this to you. It's so fucking funny to me. Somebody had to go with a mythical beast of the sea. Yeah. Instead. Conn Smyth Watch.

Current odds. Carrie Price is the favorite. Plus 275. Kuturoff. Point. Vasalesky. Petrangelo Flurry is your top six. I don't know what list you're looking at, Greg, but the one that I saw a couple of days ago

was interesting because Kerry Price actually had better cons my thoughts than the Montreal Canadians had cup odds. Right. At one point that was true. Yeah, which suggests that not only is he obviously going to win if Montreal wins the cup. There's not even really any other candidates. But the odds maker seem to think there's a significant chance.

he could win, even if they make the final and lose, the old JSG gear. I think that's quite, I think that's quite possible depending on how they lose. You can't win the con if you lose in five. Yeah. And also, I think it would have to probably be the Islanders that they beat, because the islanders don't have a real obvious jump off the page candidate, whereas with Tampa, like, Braden Point is so on fire. The Islanders beat them is what you mean.

Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant. Yeah, the Islanders beat, the Islanders go to the final and beat Montreal. I could see Kerry Price, especially since got that series, every game would be 1-0. So, whereas if they were to lose to Tampa, I think, you know, you never know. Brainpoint could go seven games held off the board. But it doesn't seem likely, though. It doesn't seem very likely. Tampa's so fast.

Like, if Tampa wins, I mean, Kucheroff right now has a nine-point advantage over Brayden But Braden Point has an eight goal advantage over Kuturoff and is, you know, en route to potentially setting an NHL record. And maybe you look, go ahead. Maybe that's it, right? Maybe Kucherov and point split the Tampa votes and Kerry Price slips in and wins it. But the problem is that right now, Carrie Price and Andre Vasselski are both 11 and five.

And Vasselowski has a higher say percentage than Carrie Price does. It's crazy. The Vasleski won's a real conundrum for me because both those guys offensively point in Kuthorov obviously have a claim on the consmite if they win. But, I mean, Vasleski's been fucking great. It's been real good. Yeah. And even when you would say he doesn't play particularly well, it's not like he's doing the Marc-Hondry thing where it's like, well, I didn't play well and I gave up five goals and some of them were like humiliating. We didn't talk about that, by the way.

Should they have started Lanner in five after what he did in four? Kind of thought. That would have been my move, but I'm not Pete DeBore, the genius who gets everybody exactly as far as this. This is, like, I would, I'm still confused as to when they started later in game four. Was that a fatigue thing? Hey, we just can't start Flurry 7 straight games, so we know we had to use our other guy at some point, or was it, hey, you screwed up the last game?

so where, because if it's a performance thing, then when you put the new guy in and he plays great and you win, typically stick with that guy. Whereas if it's a rest thing, you just, and I've seen it suggested that it may have been pre-decided. DeBore may have told him, hey, Robbins going in game four,

Mark Andre's doing game five, and that's no matter what happens, that's how it's going to go. And, I mean, I realize it'd be nice if you told the fans that, but of course, you can't because we all know. no, Montreal's entire game plan is based on what goal. I'm sure they were just completely flustered and thrown up by not having that information.

Yeah, defeat the board treats it like baseball where, you know, he thinks that starting a goalie is like starting a righty or a lefty, you know, and the other team's going to react to it in kind. It's so fucking dumb. I actually had no problem with him starting later in four because Flurry was a sub-replacement goalie in the previous two games. He didn't, I don't think he played all that well. No, yeah. It is, let's put it this way.

I think it's more defensible to start Lainer in game four than it is to go back to Flurry for game five. I completely agree. It's such a weird thing because every time a team does what Vegas did in game four, you always see them come back with the same lineup if they can. I mean, obviously, you know, Stevenson gets healthy. He goes into the lineup. That's understandable. But it's usually like, hey, let's just keep this going.

Kind of vibe. To switch goalies like that was really weird. I don't think Flurry was the reason they lost game five. His defense in front of him was atrocious. No, yeah. Odd move. And also they only scored one goal, right? Like, so the idea that Lainer is going to stop all of those breakaway.

Like, if, you know, if we're talking about a four three game and you go, well, none of those were Flurry's fault, that's one thing. But they lost three to one and pretty much all the goals were odd man rushes or breakaways. And so you go, well, look, it's not Florey's fault. But at the same time, don't you start the guy who stopped 27 of 28 in one in overtime or whatever it was? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, that would seem to be the conventional wisdom, but... Indeed.

All right. Any final other thoughts on Tampa Islanders? I mean, it's, again, hard to really talk about the series is not over. It's a state the obvious. This, I mean, by the time you're listening to this, it might be over. Yeah. Islanders are still right in this.

And yeah, I agree. I think it was Ryan said, like, this really feels like a classic clamped down two one islander win coming tonight. So we'll see. We'll see what they got. I also want to say, because I got a lot of shit for saying this. No.

The Matt Barzal crosscheck that got a, him find. Like, that was, he was just pissed off because they were getting their fucking brains beat in, right? And, and, like, I said at the time, like, there, when there is a guy who, who clearly is acting out because he's mad, his team is losing like that, like, I kind of think supplementary discipline should be automatic. You know what I mean?

Like, it kind of is, I guess. Um, but I could have easily seen a situation where, um, you know, I kind of. seen a situation where he gets five in a game and because it's the playoffs, the NHL goes and that's the fair and right call and we don't need to...

I saw Islander fans mad that he got five in a game. Him getting five in a game was good news for the honors because it was like 6-0 at the point and that kept him that kept the discussion of a suspension off the table because you're right, Department of Player's safety

could say he did get suspended. He got suspended for the remainder of a playoff game, and that was it's center. No, that's exactly right. And like, I don't even think it was that bad of a cross-check where it's like, like, the result was obviously bad, but to the point that a couple Islanders fans

who were very mad at me for saying that there should be like an automatic thing, where, because I called it an attack where it's like, oh, yeah, no, like he, a mile from the play cross-checked a guy in the head because he was pissed off that they were losing. He crossed him twice. He crossed him. He crossed him twice.

You cross-strict him in the shoulder and then he hit him in the head. Yeah. And like, you know, there have been certainly more severe cross-checks than that, even in this series or other series involving the Islanders. But I just feel like if it's a situation like that, and I know it's in the CBA that you can go, well, like the situation in the game is what makes this kind of more worthy of supplementary discipline. And that certainly applies here. but it's just like, you know what, if you're up 5-0 and you get thrown out of the game, it should be like an automatic $10,000 fine or something like that, just because it's like, we know this is just because you're being a fucking cry baby about getting destroyed.

Like, we all know that's what that was. And so, I don't know, like, that was my whole thing with it. And I just wanted to further explicate that. So, um, you know what the amazing thing about that was that? I don't hate the island is. I know you don't hate the island is. The amazing thing about that, that was Barzell's first major penalty of his career in the regular season or the playoffs. Isn't that nuts?

Not really. I don't think of him as that kind of player at all, really. He's not, but I mean, at some point you might just fuck up. Well, yeah, it just happened. Game five in playoffs. And to fill in the obvious, I'm sure every auditor fan was thinking, what he should have done if he was mad is just speared the guy right in the pills. Right. And like Jake DeRuss only got it knocked down on a review, right?

Get it in the two minutes and you're all good. Jake DeRusk only got a $5,000 fine for cross-checking a guy from the Islanders in the head like two weeks ago. What he should have done was grabbed Ruta by the head and ram him into Sorokan. So then Ruda gets a penalty. That's right. So that's really where Matt is all fucked up. He didn't learn the lessons from earlier. From the earlier games.

Yeah, obviously. Well, there you go. Well, I guess, you know, we'll start. see what happens, see if the lightning put the islanders to bed. Speaking of beds, today's episode of Puck's sleep was sponsored by Brook Lennon. Now, Brooklyn, I've talked about many times in this very podcast. So comfy. So lovely.

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that you don't want to get out of it, highly recommend brooklynnon.com. All right, moving on. We should do some awards things, I suppose. Lou Labrillo is your general manager of the year for augmenting Garth Snow's roster. So that's exciting. Second year in a row for Lou, which just goes to show this is the slightly grown-up version of the Jack Adams Award. But, no, that's it. No, it's even stupider than that.

I take that back because this award is the only one voted on after two rounds of the playoffs. That's right. And three of the four finalists are always going to be guys in the conference finals, except this year when they were like, oh, but Bill Zito. We'll pretend like you're going to win it. Bill Zito made the Sam Bennett trade. And then he got to be a finalist. Was he the one who signed Carter Verhege? I feel like that's worthy of praise.

Sure. Sure. Picked Verhagie up off the scrap heap. again, it's just hilarious, though, because, like you said, it's an award voted on after the second round of the playoffs. Insane. Colorado loses to Vegas. And then Joe Sackick, who everybody was on his, fucking, we all, what did we all collectively forget the fucking Devin Taves trade? Like, Joe Sackett was great.

That the winner made because he managed his cap right and got two second round picks for a fucking Norris level defense. We all forgot it. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. We didn't all forget it. The esteemed hockey people. that vote for the GM of the Year Award. I'm sorry, the Jim Gregory GM of the Year Award because Bill Tori didn't exist. Fucking, is it just, um, is it just the GMs who vote on it?

Like, who votes on it? No, it's an esteemed panel of hockey journalists. No way. Oh, yeah. Am I wrong on that? I have no idea. I'm asking you. I feel like it is GMs, but it's like, there's like 40 votes, so it's clearly more than that.

Hang on. I'll find it for you. It was on the Lou. blue press release. Okay. This voting for this honor was conducted among NHL club general managers and a panel of

NHL executives print and broadcast media. Oof. Yeah. There you go. I would love to know, because that's one of the ones where they don't release the like who voted, like the ballots, I guess, right? They give you the top five.

Oh, no, no. I have the ballot right here. They give you the standings, but they don't tell you who voted for it. That's what I mean. Because I want to know who gave like Pierre Dory on like the number second place vote or whatever you know what I mean third place vote dovis got a first place vote Jeff Jeff Gordon I think got a couple of votes

He did Which is interesting considering He's not an NHL GM But yeah Use of me There was a time Julian Breisbaw got Was sixth in the voting

Everybody just mad at him Yeah it's got to be it right They're all just mad at it They think he pulled a fast one Which to me would make him the fucking winner, wouldn't it? Yeah, he worked the system better than anybody this year. I don't think you can even argue that.

It's a very dumb award, and we're not even arguing about it the right way, because you can't even, you know, who should have won GM of the year? When should they vote for, there shouldn't be GM of the year. You can't, the GM's job, you can't evaluate a one-year snapshot and say, like, you know, well, all the moves this guy made at the deadline that was like a few weeks ago. Yeah, we really know how that's going to play out in the long term. Like, there shouldn't be an award, period. But if there is going to be one, let's have it be as stupid as possible.

And yeah, we're doing a good job with that. Lou should give his award to Breezebaugh, just based on how Breezeball worked the system, because that's, you know, that's Lue's thing. Just be like, I appreciate the cut of your jib. And then just hand him to whatever the award looks like. You got to respect it, especially if you're Lou. Especially if you're Lou, you have to be like game-recognized game. Like, this is...

Right. You outlude me on this one. Rod Brindamore won the Jack Adams and got a contract extension before winning the Jack Adams. So a pretty good day for Rod Brindamore, I'd say. Did you hear, by the way, I think Elliot, I can't remember where I heard it, but there was some radio interview where Elliot said he's only making one-eight. Yeah, that was... That's what he had reported as the number when there was that like a little fake out a few weeks ago.

Yeah. Yeah, he's taking an enormous pay cut to stay where he apparently is comfortable and happy and all of that. So let me let me put on my. He doesn't need the money, right? Well, the thing is like this isn't, yeah, like Robb Rindamore can take whatever amount of money he wants to take and they can negotiate and all of that. It's, if there's any newsworthiness to him taking so little, it's how does this affect other coaches where they've got to negotiate with owners who are going to go, hey, I'm not going to pay you twice what the coach of the year makes. You're going to get less than that. But I guess that there is already a feeling some have said in the league that everyone just kind of shrugs off Carolina and goes like, yeah, Tom Dundon is kind of weird about things and we can't use this as a goalpost.

So two things on that, as I put on my Johnny journalist insider hat. Brindamore has a familial reason to stay in Carolina, the kind of reason that would not want you to move across the country to Seattle, for example. So I think that is why he was very desirous to work out something with Carolina. And also just loves the franchise and consider himself a hurricane, all that jazz too. But a very sort of like, you know, private life reason to stay in Carolina. The other thing is, Sean, you're right, but it's not how it affects other head coaches. It's how it affects his assistant coaches. I heard from somebody when Brindamore was close to signing about the money he was getting,

and they were like, he just completely fucked over his assistants. Because if he's taking less, guess who else is taking less? Yeah, but wasn't that whole thing that that was the holdup that he was trying to make sure. Right. Right. The holdup, the holdup was that his staff would come back. The holdup was not that they'd get paid. That was the thing.

Well, right. But so is it a thing where he's like, look, I will take less so that you can hide? Like, I don't, I really know. No, no, no. It is that it is I am taking less. And then the thought is, well, if he's taking less, whatever you guys are looking for, I mean, just let it be known that if the guy that the head of the table took less. That sucks then. Yes.

I don't like that. It does. But he got what he wanted. So good on Rod. Brindabor, Eveson, Quenville, Bednar, Sullivan, your top five for the Jack Adams. A distant six with Sheldon Keefe, which I think is horses should. I think Sheldon Keefe did a better job. I think Sheldon Keefe did a better job of coaching than Bednar this year, to be honest with you.

I mean, I obviously see the argument for the coach who once again, who won the President's trophy and once again had like a million injuries to all his best players and the team didn't miss a beat the whole time. Like I think that is something we, because obviously we were all like, well, look how good they are. You know, but it's like, well, for the second year in a row, McCar miss time, I think McKinnon, Landis Gogmiss time, like guys got hurt. And it was like, oh, did that matter?

No, not even remotely. But they got hurt. What was fun. We should point out, I think, the obvious that this award is one that is voted on after the regular season, not based on a couple of rounds of the playoffs, the way the GM is. The fact that none of the guys we just mentioned are still around is probably evidence of that. And good old Barry Trots, only the best coach in the league. One third place vote, that's it.

I was going to ask you, what's the funnier result? Trailing David Quinn. Yeah, did Trots, is it Trots tying Jeremy Colleton or finishing behind David Quinn? I think it's finishing bottom. behind David Quinn. I think it's the call-in one because even everybody in Chicago is like, yeah, call it and sucks. Yeah, but he's still employed.

So I, uh, hey, I get it. Hey, I mean, think about it if you, if you want to hire Barry Trots, but you can't because he works for the Islanders, there's a better coach on the market right now. Right. According to the coach of the year, uh, voters. Again, voted on by the broadcasters. We had nothing to do with this. The Selke, I'm sorry, I should do the proper name.

The Frank J. Selkei Career Appreciation Award for Defensive Forward. Alexander Barkoff, who, again, not to say he wasn't worthy of the award, not to say that he's not a great defensive forward. But it's just one of those that's felt like a long time coming. I really feel like you're right. That's how it gets voted on. And that has made me feel like for a bit, like Mark Stone was one year away. Like we were one year from, I got to say that that play last night, I feel like may have knocked Mark Stone like two years back in his Selty. Oh, it was bad.

Because I don't know, I don't know about down there, but up here it got like played with like the highlight with like the video game zoom in over the guy. And they and they were like Kevin Biazza was like, you know, because somebody had said, well, he was late in the shift. And Kevin Biaxie was like, no, he wasn't. look, he's just come off the bench and it was, I'm sitting there going, maybe, you know what? Hives are out. Because good news for Philip Dino, you may have just moved to the front of the line for next year. Yeah, we didn't, we didn't mention it, by the way, but Marksone has been fucking horrible in this series, right? Yeah.

And you know what? You can only ban your stick and do this big public show of frustration so many times before you have to actually do something. I think that's right. Yep. the rest of the Selke voting, by the way, always fascinating to see. Bergeron's second, stone, third, Joel Erickson Eck was fourth, and Ryan O'Reilly was fifth, De Noe was sixth. Pavelsky, who I had pretty high on my ballot, was seventh.

He had a really good defensive year. He had a really good 200-foot season, for sure. And then you had Jordan Stahl, Brad Marchand. And then, I saw people mocking the Marner finishing in the top 10 thing, but he's a really good defensive forward. And he's a really good penalty killer is where that comes from. He's not a main value there. He's not a great, like he's not a shutdown guy, but he's really good on the penalty kill,

and that's part of being a defensive forward. So that's where that comes from. And then way at the bottom, Austin Matthews and Connor McDavid tie both with a one fifth place vote. Connor McDavid. I mean, like, look, he wasn't bad defensively, but like, come on, man. And how many votes did Dracidal get? Because we talked about that. Oh, he got.

He finished 13th in the voting ahead of Sidney Crosby and Sean Cotterier. Yeah. By the way, Greg, you might know this. Are they not releasing the ballots? So, from what I remember... From what I remember, I think we released all the ballots at the same time. And if memory serves, it was to, like, not detract from the awards. Because obviously, as soon as our votes are released, the conversation becomes,

who fucking gave Biko Rattenin' third for the Selky kind of shit? I think it's a legitimate question. So all that shit should come out pretty soon and then everybody can dig in. I mean, listen, we're all waiting for the heart, right? So like that's the thing we're all kind of waiting to see is who puts Sid first over McDavid or whatever the fuck. So that'll all be released in due time. The last thing, obviously, we have to talk about, but not delve too deep in because holy shit. Jacob Slavin won the Lady Bing Memorial Trophy, as he should, as a defensive defenseman who never takes a penalty.

Jared Spurgeon, second, Austin Matthews, third, then Barkoff, then Panarin. This sent Damien Cox into a three-day rage cycle. Yeah, I think we actually don't have to talk about this. On Twitter. We deserve to be mentioned that only because I've never seen anyone get this upset about the Lady Bing. It's insane. It's fucking insane. Again, we're not going to make this the podcast.

Damien Cox is as inconsequential, a media person as you could find at this point in his career. That said, Damien Cox saying that it's time to put a. a blue ribbon panel of real hockey people, ex-players, and coaches and executives in charge of voting for the NHL awards, because the PHWA members have demonstrated they are not qualified and aren't taking it seriously. Well, that part I agree with. But in relation to the lady Bing, I know. Because he's, and the background here is he was mad that Matthews and McDavid didn't get much more votes because he appears to be under the impression that the lady Bing is an award for excellence. by a player, like basically best player who also plays clean. Yes.

And is supposed to therefore be always awarded to a player who is a superstar. And that's just not, first of all, it's not what the description says. And it's also not how it's been voted forever. I mean, yes, in recent years it has become more an award that typically goes to someone who'd be considered a star. But like, Yuri Hoodler won it a couple years ago. this isn't so it's it's a very weird take from a very weird guy whatever whatever you think of Damien Cox as a as a columnist or whatever else he's he's doing these days a guy who's been around long enough that you would think he would not be just randomly inventing new criteria for

awards because like I mean William Carlson won it three years ago William Carlson's a good player, just like Jacob Slabin's a good player. There's nothing that says that you can't just simply be a good player and win the Lady Bing. It was, it was wild. One of the strangest, right? Because it's not even like, normally when you see a guy going to rant like that, you go, oh, they're just, they're looking for attention. They're looking for their moment. But like, nobody even cares about the Lady Bing. So it's not even going to resonate. It's not going to get you like on the front page of the newspaper for your crazy take. The guy who won it does not give a shit the he wanted. It pains me to say this, but Jacob's Slaven might, but most guys who win it probably don't really care. Like Alexander McGilley didn't even go one year when he won. He was like, I don't care. I'm not even going to bother.

I completely disagree with him, obviously, on taking away the voting from the PHWA. And I kind of find it weird that PHWA didn't clap back on him a little bit on that one because it's a fight internally that's every year we're trying to protect our vote from the NHL taking it away from us. So I was a little surprised there wasn't. more like public pushback on his comments because he's a pretty still a pretty big name in the sport. But I completely agree with him about the lady big. We shouldn't vote for the lady Bing.

I've said this a billion times. Like, we're not qualified to fucking figure out who's gentlemanly on the ice. The referees are. The players are. The world just shouldn't exist. Like how many fucking awards? That's the right answer, man. How many fucking awards are there in the NHL where it's like, oh, this is the one for the nice guy in the league?

The King Clancy, the Mark Messier, the, uh, the lady being and there's another one that I'm forgetting that comes down once in a while. The Masterton The Masterton is You know They should just honestly

The Masterton should just be the comeback player of the year And take all the other ones To the Good Guy award They never give the Masterton to some son of a bitch They always give it to a pretty decent dude Well Greg, I don't know Now I'm going to look at the list of Masterton winners It says your Bobby Hull won at nine times

Okay well Brian Barard once tipped 10%. I mean, come on. It usually goes to a pretty decent person, I think. Well, Greg, everybody in hockey's a nice guy. That's what separates the sport from... Oh, Salt of the Earth. From all the other ones.

Yeah, so the Damien Cox, Lady Bing, rage tweeting was really fucking a display. I can't even... It was very strange. Yeah. It was extremely strange. And I get... That's my only takeaway is if you saw that and you were like, oh, I didn't know that's how the lady Bing was supposed to work.

It's it's not. He made that up from, from wherever. And again, an award nobody fucking cares about. Not a single saying. It gives a shit about it. Um, all right. A couple, a couple of little notes that have come across the wire since we did the show this morning. Pat Foley, uh, venerable play-by-play broadcaster for the Chicago Blackhawks will

call his final season next year. That's fine. The great Pat Foley. Carl Gunners. If you have never, just my only Pat Foley thing is if this is my opportunity to say, if you have never watched the YouTube clip of him and Dale Tallinn calling the guy getting hit in the groin with a slap shot, do yourself a favor. It is literally, it is my favorite hockey call ever.

It is better than do you believe in miracles. just search, search Pat Foley, and then the word we, W-E-E, and then knee, as in the body part, and just enjoy what comes up. It is, it is amazing. Carl Gunnerson is retiring from the NHL. Okay, yeah, good career for him. He was out for the whole year. He was a stand the cop, played more than a decade probably.

What was the story that he, they were pissing next to each other? He'd next to the coach, and that was. the turning point. And then he said that, like, I'm going to score the game-winning goal in overtime as his dick was out next to Ruby in the bathroom. Yeah, that's the story. And whether it's true, you know, I don't care. It doesn't matter. Yeah, it has to be true.

Just the way it can't be true. Galant was formally introduced as Rangers coach this week. I think we talked about him and the Rangers on last week's show. That's fine. It's good. right? Yeah, he's a good coach. Yeah, like that hard.

And I think that's it for like current NHL news. Oh, oh, one other thing. Congratulations to a friend of the show, J.T. Brown. I'm becoming an analyst for the Seattle Cracken. That was, that's really fun news. It was a bit of a surprise, but sure. Let's see how that goes. He seems like someone who could be good at that.

I think he could be very good at that. And also RIP Tom Kervers. Yep. Sean, this was probably as awkward for you as it was for me, that your greatest context for Tom Kervers is the, is the, the Niedermeyer trade. Yeah, and, you know,

that's how he's remembered, certainly among Lee fans or whatever, but he was a real good player for a lot of years, and, you know, it's kind of unfortunate sometimes when you're a real good player and you get involved in a trade that's one-sided like that, people steer too hard in the other direction. And did he, Ryan, you might know this,

did I hear, He was a Hobie Baker winner? Yeah, he won one of the very early Hobie Baker. I don't think he won the first one, but he won one of the early ones for sure. Real good player and then had been having a real good career in the front office and probably maybe it would have been a GM someday. Just a really bright guy that everyone has just really good things to say about. Yeah, and again, for old guy context, he was traded to the Leafs for their number of. one pick and the number one pick

could have been Lindrosse but ended up being Needermire for the Devils that year. So, that's what happened there. Pretty good. Pretty good. Two things and the show. Kent Brockleman had an interesting mailbag question

that I wanted to present here on the main show. What is the worst Stanley Cup final you've ever seen? I mean, I'll go first because I've written this before in a few places. 96 avalanche versus panthers. That was my first thought. The Panthers clutch and grab. I've said this a million times.

The 96 Panthers are what people think the 95 devils were. The 95 Devils shut you down with Martan Broder, Scott Stevens, and Scott Neermeyer. Three Hall of Famers on the back end. The Florida Panthers did it with like Brian Scroodland and Scott Mellonby and a few other guys. And they just tackled you. and it could have been Pittsburgh, Colorado, which would have been an all-timer. Instead, we get Florida, Colorado, and it's a four-game sweep. One of the games is, I think, 8-1, and the series ends in game four, triple overtime on a seeing-eye point shot from defensive defensemen, Yuvae crew that gets scored at like one in the morning.

Nobody's even awake to see it. It's just an awful final for more than a few reasons, not only because it's, it's a lot. the entertainment value was so low, but because every other owner in the league went, why am I paying all these guys to score goals when we can just tackle guys like the Panthers did? And that became what the NHL turned into. Yeah, the one that kind of came to mind for me, and I don't think has come up, is the Red Wings Hurricanes series from like 2002. Yeah.

Like, it was all close games, but Detroit, I think it was a five-game series, right? And, like, you know, it was a late era or later era of just, again, a team with like seven Hall of Famers on it versus a team where it's like, well, Arter Zerbe stood on his head, I guess, you know? Yeah. You know, there were good, obviously, like Rod Brindamore was on that team, but like it was him and it was Ron Francis maybe at like 50. Yeah. Rom Pryants would have been very, very old at that point. I think the Red Wings were $19 million over the cap that year. They were just a little bit more than the lightning.

I would, I think I agree with Sean on the Florida one. That was one where like, you know, it's a Cinderella run and then they just like get fucking curb stomped. I was, I had to actually go back and check. I forgot the Devils won two games against the Kings. The Devils Kings is the other one where the Kings go up three nothing. Yeah. Everyone's like, all right, well, kings are going to win their first cup. Then the Devils win game four and you go, oh, crap, we got to watch another game of this.

Then they win game five and you go, hold on a second, maybe. And then they lose game six, like six to one or something. Yeah, where Steve Bernier takes the five-minute boarding major. I wasn't part of it, but I've heard horror stories from like media covering that. Because remember, you've got to fly back and forth across the country every time the devils win another game and extend this stupid series. And it's like, everybody just wants to go home. And no.

I was a part of that. Yeah. And I'm a Devils fan. And I got to tell you, I have, I have, I have, it was like a, it was like a fucking wake in game five in the press, in the press box. Like, the, devil's went up to one in the, in the, in the, uh, in the second period. So you had an entire other period of hockey where literally every journalist in the press box is like, come on, kings.

Come on, you motherfuckers. Even me. I'm like, come on, let's not do this. We all know how this series is going to turn out. And then the devil's one to one, we all the way to get on these fucking planes go all the way back across the country just to see if Steve Perrinne and take a five-minute major and lose the game. But at least it was a battle of an eighth seat against a sixth seat. So you had that going for you. Man, I just remember being in the press box and being like, I saw the one in 95, 2000, 2003.

I'm fine. I don't need to see this. We all know it's not going to happen. It sucked. All right. Last thing on the show this week is an overrated, underrated. This one got a lot of love on the Twitter machine. So let's do it here.

Even if we may have done a variation of it before, I don't even remember. Oh, God. Harrison Ford. Am I right? Harrison Ford movies where he doesn't play the president. No. Chinese food menu items. Chinese food.

menu items hmm overrated I'm trying to think what I think is overrated I'll tell you right now what it is okay I got I got the right answer too so I'm assuming from Greg's confidence that we're going to match

I think I think I know what yours is and it's not mine mine is fried rice yeah I just feel like it's perfunctory I feel like we've gone to a place in Chinese cuisine that there are other things that you can get if you need some kind of a filler type thing in your meal. A low main, if you will. Yeah, a low main, if you will.

So fried rice is my overrated, but I will say that maybe an underrated subgenre of fried rice is pineapple fried rice. I think pineapple and fried rice is really good. But fried rice overrated. Ryan? I personally don't like them, but like I get why people do. and it's just not for me. So I guess I'll say crab rangoon. Things with that nature.

That's exactly right. It's just on... It's a texture thing for me. I don't like the filling. That's all. That's fine. That's fair. My correct answer that I thought Greg was going to say,

Fortune cookies. Oh, wow. I thought you were to go general soaps. No, they're... No, come on. They don't taste bad. Fortune cookies taste like a wad of paper with a tiny bit of sugar sprinkled on it. But you get the fortune, which is fun until you remember that you can get bad horoscopes generated for you pretty much anywhere.

Wow. And then there's always like the one person at the table who's like, let's add in bed. Okay. You're like, yeah, man, that was funny 19 years ago, but we don't really need to do it now, Grandma. So let's. And now they've right the foretons. Fortune cookies for that? Like very clearly, there are some where it's like,

you're always finding yourself tied up in odds? It's like, okay, yeah, we get it. Fortune cookies suck. Wow. Came hard on that one. Yeah. Underrated. My only strong Chinese food take.

Underrated. I'm torn because my favorite I also feel is underrated because I don't think people eat them enough. So I'll make my favorite, my underrated. which is soup dumplings. Soup dumplings are incredibly good. I don't think they're widely enough available where people know about them. But basically, you know, it's a dumpling filled with soup.

You bite the top. You can throw a little sauce in there and then you kind of suck the soup out, then you eat the dumpling. Or you eat the whole thing in your mouth at one time and just have an explosion of soup in your mouth. Soup dumplings are phenomenal. Dintai Fung is a chain of them that I think is slowly creeping across. the country. And if you can get soup dumplings, find them, and you will never go back. They're so fucking great. My problem here is I feel like a lot of Chinese food is properly rated as very good. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know that I'm that I'm super convinced that there's anything

or it's like, oh, boy, people really do overlook like spare rips, you know what I mean? And spare ribs can be dicey if they're overcooked. Yes, absolutely. I guess because it's kind of thought of as an afterthought, and it's always been one of my favorite things, I guess I'll go with those, like, and maybe this is more for just, like, East Coast people only because I don't, I know, like, they have more, like, traditional actual Chinese food on the West Coast.

but I've always, my favorite thing was always just like the little chicken fingers in like that gold batter. Oh yeah. I know you're talking about. Those are really good. Yeah. I don't know if that's underrated though. I think it is. Again, I don't think they're widely enough consumed.

My underrated is going to be one that is, it was underrated by me for a lot of. of years, and I've now seen the air of my ways, is like a good spring roll, good order of spring rule. You'd be more than one. I was always more of like an egg roll guy, but a good spring roll, it's a good kind of appetizer type thing, but also, this is where it gets really underrated. I've discovered lately a very underrated leftover option. Like the next day, order a few too many, and you get like a couple of, like a couple of

especially if you have an air fryer and you can actually get it not a soggy mess, underrated leftover option, which is, of course, like, 80% of the reason you get Chinese food in the first place is because you get amazing leftovers worth. Yeah, you have all your food for the rest of the week. Absolutely. Favorite. I'll have to go, soup dumplings is my favorite, but I already use them.

So I will go with beef chow fun. amazing. I love a wide noodle. You get everything kind of coming together in the same thing. Now, the thing you have to avoid is all your wide noodles is becoming just a block of noodle, which can happen sometimes in beef chop fun. You have to do some separation with your choppies. But it's such a great, it's so great. And I love the fact that it's basically like the go-to kind of like common meal for, you know, billions of Chinese. Yeah, I guess it's like one and a half, 1.6, I think, right now. So that's about right. It's a common man's food, is what I'm trying to say, and I really enjoy it. Yeah, and mine is, I think it's the, you mentioned it earlier, Greg. I can't imagine why anybody would think this is overrated. I think it rocks is General So's chicken.

Again, not by any means a regular Chinese, like actual Chinese. food dish, but like, anytime I see it, I'm just like, well, that's what I'm getting tonight, obviously, you know? Yep. So I'm, I'm right there with you. That's my pick too. And I'm deeply frustrated that I've tried multiple times to make it at home and have never come close to capturing.

There's so many different recipes. I've tried it. I've tried and I just can't pull it off anywhere near as good as. And at a certain point, you're like, How much effort am I going to put into doing something I can get for like $7? That's right. And it'll be amazing. Like, what am I doing here?

But yeah, that's the go-to. I have to say that my least favorite, I'm kind of torn between two. One is I'm not a big fan of like a pancake, like a Chinese pancake. Like a scalyon pancake? Yeah, I've always found them to be. Well, I almost said that for underrated. I think they're too greasy. I just think they're a little too big.

too greasy. But maybe you're right. Maybe they taste good, so that's good. So I'll say my least favorite is I'm not a huge fan of like Chinese soups that aren't like noodle soups. I think, you know, a good Chinese hot pot type soup is really good. But, you know, egg drop soup's okay. Wanton soup is kind of like, all right?

It's like broth in a wonton, whatever. But I think my least favorite is hot and sour soup. Never been a big fan. Yeah, I agree. Not a fan. Um, this is, this is a tough one because, again, I, I, I just kind of like almost all of it. There's, there's very little that I won't eat that it, and I, again, I already mentioned, uh, freaking, uh, uh, crab, rangoon. I already mentioned that, which is like I don't, you know what?

Okay, I'll say this. Uh, when, when they make you, when they do the regular. regular chicken wing. You know what I mean? Like it's just, it's just like, nobody, nobody wants this.

Yeah. You can get a better chicken wing anywhere. But yeah, I mean, I'm, I just pulled up a menu from my, from my favorite Chinese place in the greater Boston area.

Shout out Cathay Pacific in Quincy. It is incredible. But yeah, I'm looking at this and I'm like, yeah, even like Mugu Guy Pan, which I never order. Like, it's good.

I have no problem with it. The hit-to-miss ratio on a Chinese food menu is enormously positive. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. The chicken wings is a good call. My honorable mention is the spare ribs for kind of a similar reason. Like it's a different genre, I guess, than the typical ribs you would get anywhere else. but why I don't know why you want to order it more than to have maybe one or two.

But mine is going to be my personal least favorite, and this is just a me thing, pretty much anything in the dim sum category. Oh, interesting. Because I'm not an adventurous eater. And especially in my younger days was really not an adventurous eater. And when I met my future wife, her family are big dim sum folks. and they would like take man you know when you're out with the girlfriend's family you have to you you can't be like a petulant picky eater you got to eat what's put in front of you and they're like they're ordering like the chicken feet and the just all the all they just very adventurous

food and and and apparently it was excellent but I'm just sitting there like I I'm hating this so much I just want to go and I just want some general tax house, but it was not to be. The other thing I'll say is, like, again, my context for Chinese food is, like, shitty New England Chinese food, which I love, like, I say shitty. Yes. I mean, it's, its own category of Chinese food. So much so that my sister who lives in Hawaii and, you know, there's actual good Chinese food

available everywhere. When she comes back here, she's like, we got to go to, like, a, a, uh, a, a, shitty Chinese restaurant like six times while I'm here because I just can't get this garbage at home and it's so fucking good. I feel like Chinese food is a separate genre from Chinese cuisine. Cuisine. Yeah. Food from China is not this. It's just its own.

But again, like on the West Coast and in, in, in, and in Hawaii and stuff like that, it is way more traditional. and like they they just don't apparently they just don't have like spare ribs or whatever like we have here. Right. It's just a completely different animal and it's apparently like a New York City kind of Chinese diaspora thing as opposed to like, you know, Asian Pacific Chinese diaspora, I guess. One of my fast and loose rules about picking a Chinese place to like sit down and have a dinner rather than. like doing takeout is if they have ducks hanging in the window on hooks. If you got ducks on hooks, I know you're serious about this shit. Yeah.

For us, it's like around New England, it's like, does it look like this place was built with a teaky theme in the mid-1970s? If so. Then it's a place. Or like, next time you guys come to Boston, we're going to go to Cathay Pacific and we're going to have a fucking blast. It's so good. It's a date.

All right. That's fuck soon for this week. Thanks everybody for listening. You can find my stuff on ESPN.com. The column this week is about a topic everyone loves NHL officiating. That'll be out on Thursday. Yeah, E.P.Rinkside.com. I mentioned it earlier, but I had nothing to do with it.

But we just released our draft preview, or part one of our draft preview, and it's huge. Like so in-depth, you're not going to believe it. Wow. And if you sign up for a year's subscription, you get to get three months off with the code. And I'm going to track it down here. It's a new code. That's why I don't remember. Here we go.

It is draft guide, all one word. Sign up for a year. You get three months for free with the code draft guide. This thing is wild. It's so crazy, how fucking big it is. It says here, our scouts spent thousands of hours watching hundreds of games. The overall draft guide will be 1,200 pages. Wow.

That's a lot. 107 prospects, ranked, reviewed, in-depth analysis, all that kind of stuff. Let me put it this way. If your team's drafting, or, I mean, if your team's drafting anywhere, so like maybe not Arizona, but if your team's drafting high, you're going to want to pick this up. And with the code, good value. So check it out. Good stuff.

Find me on The Athletic. My post today is my annual all-playoff disappointment team, full roster of all the biggest playoff bus. This just says the Toronto Maple Leaf. Yep, that's it. Just a link directly. It was the easiest thing I ever wrote. And check me out on the Athletic Hockey Show with Ian Mendez on Thursdays.

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Say it. Bye-bye. Sticks and hits and goals and saves and slapshots and goons. We've got sportly commentary to what if you commute. But we also cover movies. TV shows, it's and tools It's your weekly bowl of hockey and night sentence Bork too