Puck Soup - Where Does The Time Go?

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Sean and Ryan talk about the ongoing series of the second round, some coach and GM hires, and more. Sponsored by Mint Mobile (mintmobile.com/puck)

I'm Ryan Lambert from Elite Prospects. I'm Sean McIndoo from The Athletic. And starting to get a little interesting out there in the second round, isn't it? A bunch of 3-1 series are starting to crop up. I don't know. I don't. Okay. We'll start with this.

Edmonton Vegas does seem like it's time starting to run out for the Golden Knights, huh? It does. especially when Stuart Skinner's throwing shutouts at you? Yes, that's the big problem. That is, this is a week ago, they were like, we can't, we literally can't play this guy. He's horrible. And now. And now this.

And the other thing is obviously the absolutely crazy ending to the game on, was a Saturday night, game three? Yes. Yep. is the sort of thing that sometimes can really tilt a series. You know, momentum is overrated, but also sometimes a loss like that can derail a team. And nope. Oilers just came out and took care of business in Game 4, and it's a tough road back right now for Vegas.

Yeah. Well, so watching that game on Saturday, it occurred to me that, oh, the Oilers are doing the Oilers thing again, where it's, well, if McDavid, Drysidal and maybe one or two other guys aren't scoring, nobody is. And I looked it up and as of whatever, like the first, I guess, eight games of the playoffs, right? Because it was five against the Kings and the first three. They had scored two Six games, okay, great, even better. They had scored two goals with

McDavid, Drysidal, Bouchard, and who's the other defenseman, the guy they got from the Sharks, why am I blanking on his name? Oh, do you get, yeah, the Walman. Walman. If those four guys weren't on the ice,

the Oilers had two goals in nine games or whatever. And then last night, the first goal, they score. None of those guys are on the guys. So it's like, okay, well, if they got that sorted out, I think they're going to be fine. That's, like, I'm not saying I forgot Adam Henrique was on the Oilers, but it certainly wasn't top of mind.

And if you had, like, stopped me on the street and been like, name a dozen Oilers that are going to be important the rest of the way. I doubt he would have been one of them. So when he's having big games, yeah, like, it was sort of for Vegas. It wasn't even a McDavid-Drysaddle game. It was something else. And it's tough. So let's ask the question that we're going to ask for both of these series.

Yep. The team that's down 3-1, are they cooked? I think you have to say yes. I think it's pretty clear that a handful of guys on Vegas who are important players are playing hurt in a way that, maybe you wouldn't say for the capitals, you know. And I'm sure we'll get the laundry list of injuries for every team that gets eliminated. But to me, I'm just kind of like, oh, yeah, you know, can the team score a bunch of goals and come back from down 3-1 against Stuart Skinner?

Yeah, I guess I think they can. What percent chance do I give that to happen? because the oilers can also score a bunch of goals against Aden Hill. I don't know, like 8%. It's not impossible. It's just extremely unlikely. Yeah. So, and I think I would largely agree, which leads me to say, no, they are not cooked.

They're in trouble, obviously. We're not going to sit here and say a team down 3-1 is in good shape. But they are going home. Yeah. And this oil, man, man. This Oilers team is just weird. And when I say this Oilers team, I'm talking like for the last three years now. Sure.

It really feels like on any given night, they could beat anybody. Like 77 Canadians, anybody. And then other nights, they just look like a mess. Have these guys ever met each other before? Absolutely. Exactly. So I think there's hope for Vegas, but obviously it's... Because like...

It's a tough situation. To your point, the game three, the Drysidal owned goal, even if he doesn't have that happen, everybody's coming out of that game going, boy, dry Cytle suck tonight. Like every story I saw from the Edmonton media was like, drycidal was awful. And if you can barely win and it's like a 0.4 seconds left own goal that beats you when Leon Drycidels having a horrible fucking night, I don't know how much. faith I have in you to win the rest of that series. You know what I mean? Like, if you need Leon Dreisdell to be obviously bad to even eke out a win, I don't know, you know?

But again, I just think, you know, I don't trust the Edmonton goalies as far as I can throw them. And those are two big guys. So, you know, I can't throw them very far. But, you know, the Oilers have clearly been the better team. on five overall, like, they're just a much better team, I think, right now because of health and, you know, I think I picked Vegas. I'm pretty sure I picked Vegas to win the series, but that was because I didn't trust Stuart Skinner. And if he's going to be throwing shoutouts,

well, you know, off we go. And it wasn't like he was great last night. You weren't watching it. Yeah, you weren't watching it go. It was, it was exactly that. It was more the Oilers. this felt like the first game where the oilers were like, oh, we have Stuart Skinner in that. Maybe mixing a back check. Maybe not all five guys charging up the ice. Yeah, Vegas didn't even get to two expected goals in all situations last night. That's not going to get the job done.

You know. So give me a number. It's one of those. Is it Oilers and six? Is that the... Yeah, six sounds great to me. And you know what? Honestly, like, if you said,

like over under five and a half, that's one of those ones where I'm like, boy, they nailed it on the over under. You know what I mean? Like, if they, if they win in Vegas three nights from now

or whenever the next game in the series is, I'm just like, yeah, what can you say, you know? Like I said, I don't think Vegas has been playing well. So usually it's, well, you know,

McDavid and Drysidal are going off. It would be interesting. interesting to me. I wonder how much thought they're giving to breaking those guys up more, just because they haven't been great when those guys are off the ice. But again, if they're going to score, if they're getting one goal a game from those guys aren't on the ice, then they're all set, you know? Yeah, and that's the other thing that's so scary when you're down big to a team like Edmonton.

Like, really, what are the odds that in the next three games, Connor McDavid, it doesn't have one game where he just single-handedly creates three goals. Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. Like, it's not, the odds of that happening aren't zero, but they're not great. And they're far different than they would be for any other team. They got the what's wrong with Leon Dreisital game and barely won in game three. Right?

So the idea that it couldn't swing in the other direction for McDavid or Dry Sightal, quite frankly, you know, what were we talking about here? These are two of the three or four best players on Earth. So, yeah, I'm not feeling good about this one if I'm Vegas. And, you know, judging by all the coverage, they don't feel great about it either. So, you know, you can say, oh, we're going to, you know, we're going to push back. We're going to push back, but there's only so much you can do at a certain point. Speaking of which, Washington and Carolina.

Another one where it just seems like, well, that snowball got real big as it rolled down the hill and now we're in a lot of trouble. Yeah. So are they cooked? I kind of think yes on this one. Yeah, I think so as well. which is fun because it means next week's show we could be having a real interesting conversation. But look, we all pick Carolina in this series.

We've all been waiting for the Washington Magic to run out all year long. We've all been wrong about that happening all year long. But Carolina is just a really good team. And they're just, they're playing. This whole series has. been Carolina hockey, which is not what you want when you're the number one seed is playing the other team's games. Totally.

And I know I got, you know, I had some watching fans get mad at me because I said that Carolina dominated game three and I got a lot of these, you know, what game were you watching? Watching it look great for some of it. Yeah, great. All right. I just don't. Barring something really weird happening. I just don't see a path to a comeback here from Washington.

Even with two games at home, even with, you know, Carolina having some history of not closing, I just, to me, this is too much of a mismatch. Yeah, and look, like, I thought, I thought Rod Brindamor had something really interesting to say about, like, the idea that these guys are just gaming coursey and all that. and it makes the games look more lopsided than they are. Someone on the Discord had a really interesting way of framing it where it's like, would you rather have two zero point, like if you're getting one expected goal, would you rather have it be two zero point five expected goal scoring chances or 10.1 expected goal scoring chances? Right.

Right? And because it's two paths to the same thing. And obviously everyone's just like Carolina shoots it from everywhere. And first of all, Rhindamore last night goes, well, that's like how you score goals is by shooting the puck a lot. Yeah. We're on the same page here, it feels like, you know, which I, I get that point of view. And especially their first goal last night was a low XG shot. that, you know, seeing eye shot finds its way through three guys, whatever.

And I don't know if you only get one of those a game, that's a problem. But if you get one of those and mix in. So let me read you some stats here, which is so interesting. But, you know, Carolina is like plus 124 in attempts in four games, plus 124. And you're like, okay, well, they're all shooting from the outside. Yeah. Okay, shots on goal, they are plus 39 in four games. And this is all at five on five, by the way.

And then you go, okay, high danger scoring, high danger scoring chances, they're only plus one. That's bad. That's, you know, it's better to be plus anything than minus, but it does speak to what people are talking about here. but then regular scoring chances, which of course is high and medium, they are, where did I,

I just saw that, where was that? Okay, they are plus 39. Okay. You know? And it's like, you don't want to be minus 10

in scoring chances per game, is my opinion. You do not. And I don't know. The other crucial thing with all that is, how many high danger goals has Washington scored in this year? Do you want to guess? Five on five?

Three. Zero. And there's your problem. Yep. That's it. If you're getting to the net, you know, roughly as effectively as they are, you got a score on those and they literally haven't done it. Carolina, for the record, only has one.

But, you know, that's not really their game. Like, aren't we saying that? So. And Freddie Anderson's been very good. Yeah. And now, who's the bigger, who's a bigger playoff Freddie Anderson detractor than me, right? Mm-hmm.

And I said going into this series, I thought he, I think he's better than Hunter Thompson, taken as, you know, the whole of their career. Hunter Thompson. Hunter S. That's crazy. Yeah, that's right. I agree. Fee and loathing in Washington. Freddie is a better goalie than he is.

Yeah, that guy died a long time ago. Logan Thompson. Hoggy, loggy, they're calling him after that contract. Are they calling him then? Or did you just think that up? Well, I'm calling him that. Okay, all right. It's a good one.

I'm going to steal that. Thanks. But no, he, you know, taken as a whole, I think. I think Anderson's better than Thompson. That's all, you know? And there is the playoff ready Anderson aspect of it, but it's not like this guy, it's impossible for this guy to get out of the second round, you know?

So, yeah, I don't know, like you said, this is all going exactly the way the hurricanes wanted. Yeah. Yep. I mean, I'm with you. I guess the other thing we should say is Carolina has officially, I think over the last week, become the team that we get every year that people start to complain that they're boring. I mean, I wouldn't say, I would say they were saying that since the playoffs started. They're a boring team to watch.

A lot of point shots and stuff like that, people aren't excited about that. And I get it. but if you're saying it about you know the islanders of however long ago that was now they go well we're winning so what do we give a fuck you know the problem is that that you say that and then like Carolina fans are like

it's actually really interesting and fun and it's like well come on this is the same thing like I remember a few years well it was more than a few years ago I guess but it was that Ottawa was getting this. And it was like, I remember talking to people here and being like, the answer is screw you. We don't care if we're boring. We like it.

It's fun for us. More fun to watch your team win a boring game than lose an exciting one. So we're not here to entertain the rest of you. As opposed to, no, we're actually really exciting. Look at this one clip that I found that looks kind of sort of interesting and except it doesn't. Yeah, I mean, again, like the, this. This is, you know, if we're looking at it from a purely aesthetic point of view, which, you know, probably you shouldn't. But like, yeah, okay, you're right.

Carolina's not the most fun team to watch. Who gives a fuck? If you're them, if you're me, a guy who doesn't care whether they win or lose, apart from I pick them to win this series. So I need them to, you know, reify my expertise or whatever. like, I can't sit here and be like, oh, I'm psyched to watch these guys in the next round, too, you know? Yeah. And here's the other thing. Is Washington, like, a particularly exciting team to watch?

Yeah, that's fair. I don't think so. I mean, that's part of it, right? Like, the two opponents that Carolina's head, it's... They're just outclassing them, yeah. Yeah. Neither one is exactly an electrifying team. I certainly would not say it's been an easy path, but I think that when we get to the final four, we're going to look.

Carolina is going to be the team that you look at and go, they haven't played like a really great team yet. And maybe that's just that maybe they get all the way through and four rounds of them, we go, oh, they never played a great team. Oh, wait, maybe they were the reason that it never looked like they were playing a great team. Yeah, they were just holding everybody at arm's length. I can definitely see that happening. Um, but yeah, I, I don't know. I, like I say, I'm not, I'm not sitting here going, oh, yeah, and the, the, the Washington capitals are playing like, like you said, the 77 Canadians.

It's the most beautiful hockey you've ever seen in your life. No, I'm not really, you know, even when things are going great for them, I wouldn't have said that. So, I just feel like a lot of the time, you know, the, like, the aesthetic argument is just like sour grapes a little bit. You know? That's fair. But that doesn't mean people are wrong.

Yeah, but it is. It's the criticism you reach for when you're trying to. It always feels to me like you're trying to pull the other fan base down into the bucket, right? Like, oh yeah, your team's doing great. You guys are all happy and excited, but you're not fun enough. Don't you feel bad? Don't you feel a little guilty on how you're doing this? Right, yeah.

No, no, no, no, I don't. Not at all. Yeah. The interesting thing about this is from the, like, entertainment standpoint, it does seem like these two teams are starting to hate each other's guts. Mm-hmm. But a little late to the party. What did you think of Tom Wilson pulling out the Storm Surge taunt? New Tom Wilson emote just dropped.

Yeah. Boy, starting to feel like he's pretty easily gotten to, doesn't it? Mm-hmm. Yep. Not where you want to be. Like, just as a guy whose whole thing is like, I pissed the other team off. When you're the one who's getting pissed off all the time, that's probably not good for your effectiveness or whatever, you know? But yeah, you know, I guess points for creativity.

I feel like we did the storm surge discourse like six years ago now or whatever. Right? Like this, is it points for creativity or is this like, is this now the Carolina Hurricanes equivalent of like airplane food is bad? Well, I guess to me it's like, oh, this is what you guys do when you win and you just go, yeah, man, you got to see it a lot. Yeah, you're going to see it probably pretty soon. Yeah. If they win on home ice in game six, they've got to break out a really good.

They should do like a Tom Wilson's greatest hits. just like make a little circle. They don't want to hospitalize all their routines. Well, that's, you make a little circle and then you like slash a guy in the head and elbow another guy and everybody pretends to cry. Yeah. And. It's tough, man. You can't, you can't be the guy who's gotten to.

That's, that's when it hurts. You know, that's when it's like, yep, you don't have anything else to really say. Nice to see Alex Ovechkin score, but again, too little too late. Mm-hmm. Maybe it feels like, I don't know. Like I said, it just feels like the momentum has gathered against the capitals in the series, and I don't have a ton else to say about it, I guess. Svetchenkov's having a nice series, I guess.

It's having a nice playoffs. Like, it feels like, I don't know if I'd say the breakthrough, because that's both. I feel like calling it a big breakthrough would slightly overstate how good he's playing and also understate how good he's been in his career. But he feels like a guy's leveled up a little bit this last month. Yeah, I think that's right. What is, is it six goals in nine games or something like that?

That sounds right. No, he, oh, right, he had the, he had the empty netter. So I guess that's, that's seven goals in nine games. Pretty good. Mm-hmm. You can't score many more than that, in my opinion. You know, the math would disagree with you. There's a lot of numbers higher than...

Yeah, that's true. Well, let me put it this way. You know, we're starting to see the like, okay, well, if they were awarding the consmite today, not even halfway through the playoffs, who would... He would have to be Carolina's guy, right? Or Anderson. But yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, he was hurt for the, you know.

I know. But we love a narrative. We do. And hey, look, again, I've been, I've been as critical as anyone about playoff Freddie Anderson and why is Carolina counting on this guy and all this. So that'd be, that'd be nice for him. But, yeah, to me, it's the guy who has seven goals in nine games right now. Edmonton, you know, take your pick. Whoever, whoever scores most recently between McDavid and Drysidal.

Yep. Although I'm in Bouchard He's having a hell of a fucking playoff There's something for you guys to think about I think that last I saw they were outscoring The other team 9 to 2 when he was on the end Something like that What's that?

Who are the you guys that have to think about this? I guess the voters who definitely listen to this podcast I don't know That ain't me No me neither man Yeah, I guess I don't really have anything else to say about these two series. These are the ones that feel kind of done. So.

Yeah. I'm the same, man. I got nothing else. And tuned in next week when we discuss a pair of Game 7 classics. Would they be with these? No. How, when would Game 7 be in these series? I don't have that in front of me, but if you, I'll look it up.

NHL.com slash playoffs. They will tell you if the website wants to load. Yeah, so I don't know, fill time for a second. Yeah, well, it's Saturday would be game six. Okay. And then I, so I guess it must be, they don't go any further than that, at least on the, where I I'm assuming Monday. Yeah, there was a Monday. Monday night would be game seven of Washington and Carolina.

Yep. And Edmonton, Vegas, game seven would be on Sunday night. So we would have both of these all nicely tucked in and put away. The series will be done by the time we were. And by the way, you and I will both be on here going like. I knew it. We knew it. Vegas, Washington, baby.

Can't keep a team down. But yeah, you know, again, in both cases, it just seems like the team that's in the lead right now is getting the other team to play their game, and that's bad for the other team. Way she goes sometimes. Tonight, I believe, only the one game, Winnipeg Dallas. Yes. The solo game tonight because there's an extra night in the Toronto Florida series. Why is that? Why are they doing that to me?

what, I don't know. It's very strange because by putting the extra day in, they take away the Leafs playing on Saturday night, which you would have thought. I guess I didn't think about that. They're going to go through two weekends in this series without the Leafs playing a Saturday night game, which normally you would think will go the other way. I think part of it is, remember, the Leaf series started first. It was the Monday night.

Right. So they had to build something in somewhere. I guess. But yeah, I'm very surprised that Hockey Night Canada didn't put their foot down and try to get a Saturday night. But they're getting the Oilers. They do well too. Winnipeg, Dallas. That's the series we're talking about, yeah. Still, I mean, I want to believe in Winnipeg. I really do. I mean, we're well beyond Connor Halibuck, panic.

at least as far as him on the road. Yeah. This is, yeah, this is tough. What did you think about the kicked in goal? Guy kicked it into the net. To me, it's as clear as day. And then they're like, well, the goalie propelled it into the net. What?

Yeah. What does that mean? So the thinking here is that the rulebook is very, very clear. If you have a distinctive kicking motion, And for once, it feels like that's not the part we're arguing about. Everybody sort of agrees that, yeah, he swung his skate at the puck. He kicked it distinctively. But that if you kick the puck towards the net,

just because it deflects off somebody along the way, does not mean that it's suddenly a good goal. The rulebook is very clear on that. I kick the puck towards you, Ryan, you're the goaltender, and it ticks off your pad on the way in. Yeah. Still no goal. Now, if I kick the puck towards the net,

and as it's sliding through the crease, a defenseman accidentally, you know, in trying to clear it, shoots the puck into his own net, that would be a goal. Yeah, of course. not my kick that made it happen, right? I mean, we can think of extreme examples of what that could look like. So it comes down to, did Connor Hallibuck knock the puck into his own net that wasn't going in,

or was he in the process of just making a save and deflected it? And there's not a lot of clarity, unfortunately, on that in the rulebook. I will tell you my theory on this. Okay. This is only a theory. I do not have anyone whispering in my ear or anything like that. But the thing that a lot of people noted, if you were watching the game in real time, this review took forever. Okay.

Can I make a point on this? They literally just started playing Freebird and got to the solo. That should be impossible for a goal review. That, like, that is the ultimate, like, this is a, this is a fucked up broken system. Like, sign that something needs to change. Even as, as, you know, someone who is always complaining about replay review. Yeah. And the many, many, many smart, decent people who were on my side on this debate, we all love to point out how long it takes and how it kills all the momentum and all of that.

even given that, this one took forever. It kept going and going and going. It's almost five minutes into Freebird is when the solo starts. I just Googled it. And it's not like they started Freebird the second the puck went in. That's correct. It just, it was agonizing how long it went for. Now, here's my theory.

Elliot Friedman tweeted out a few things about this and I'm assuming that he does have someone whispering to him. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things he said was the reason it took so long was because of the number of replays they wanted to look at,

which sounds kind of like, yeah, no kidding, like what, we didn't think they were like watching YouTube videos. We assumed they were. Maybe that's it. Do you think there's an algorithm on the NHL replay review? that like just auto starts a new video. You never know. Suddenly you're like getting radicalized into.

But here's my theory. I think, oh, and the other thing he said was that the officials, he basically said the referees on the ice felt strongly that it was, that the call on the ice should stand. I think this was one of the cases where there was a significant disagreement between the refs on the ice. And the war room? Yeah.

I think the refs... I think Elliot said the refs on the ice thought it wasn't even a kicking motion. Maybe. Maybe. Lord knows we didn't get that level of explanation from the NHL. Like they didn't... This is the sort of thing where the NHL should absolutely, like, put out a video and say, like, here's how we got to this decision.

Yes. They don't. I think this was a case where the war room was saying no goal and the refs were saying, yes, it is a goal. So the war room kept feeding them replays over and over. Like kept looking for the one more replay. Look at this kick. Like, look, here's another view.

Okay. No, I know. Okay. So I know you guys don't think, all right. Find it. You know, and meanwhile, you're like covering the receiver on the phone. Go on find another one because these guys are being real stubborn. And ultimately, they went with the refs view.

But that's why I think it took so long. I'm willing to bet that there's somebody in that war room. it's like we did not get that right. Which would happen sometimes. You get a group of people. It's not everyone's going to wind up on the same page. Yeah. Nope.

I think that's a really good and probably correct theory. But, yeah, I think they got that run wrong. There's no universe where that's not a kicked in goal for me. Yeah. I'm with you. I think the Jets got robbed a little bit now. They gave up two more goals after that. Well, and so that's the other thing is it's like, you know what?

If it was a 4-3 final or I guess the final was 5-2. So if it was a 3-2 final and that was the goal, I would be like, boy, the Jets got fucked on this one, man. But that's not what happened. The Jets immediately gave up two more goals. So I'm like, you know what? Maybe on some level, like, ball don't lie, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, and I get, and I also get to, there's, for some fans out there, unless a bad call happens in overtime, they refuse to acknowledge that it impacted. You know, if it happens with two minutes left, it's like, well, you had two minutes to do whatever. And it's like, yeah, okay. And even if it happens in overtime, it's like, well, you had 65 minutes before that to get the, this or that. But I do think this one was, this was a tough. But, I mean, if you're Winnipeg, you got to shake it off and go. but, man, Dallas is good.

Yeah, they're a good team. Really, really good. And again, it's just further to the, the Colorado thing of like, yep, you know what? We played the best team in the league in the first round and we lost to them. Like, we don't have to really freak out about this. More fuel for the fire on that one anyway. We'll put it that way.

What did you make of Mason Markman slashing the rest? I was very surprised that that did not turn into anything. I understand that it's essentially the refs call. It's kind of, not entirely, but almost the only situation where a referee decides suspension or no suspension. Because it's whether he puts it in the report or not, which is very, very strange that we're still doing that. Like, we're still relying on the referee's report. I get that when like the game was in Chicago and it wasn't televised. And so, okay, we're literally sitting at the head office waiting for this report to be delivered on what actually happened.

In the universe where everything is televised and recorded and streamed and that sort of thing, it is very strange that we're waiting for a report. But yeah, you know, it's funny. They don't tell you like the. The worst part about being an NHL referee. It's not the booing. It's not guys telling you you're a fucking idiot all night. It's the paperwork. All the paperwork, man.

It's crazy. Just these guys are carrying around file folders full of handwritten game reports. To me, it's just like, this is basic stuff. And let's be clear, he didn't slash the ref. He didn't attack the ref. He didn't try to hurt. Like, it was like a little, hey, wake up. tap. But we've seen that be a suspension.

Well, that's, yeah. That can be 10 games. Absolutely. That could be three games. I think there is some additional discretion built in there. To me, it's just, this is like the ultimate example of like the refs put in the whistle boy. They just didn't want to suspend a guy in the playoffs. So it was like, all right, we're just going to pretend you didn't do that. and then I guess once it's not in the report

it goes in the report he's going to be suspended multiple games or it doesn't go in and then nothing happens I mean I guess no harm no foul on one level but and and you know I've heard people say well precedent and yeah I don't think like players around the NHL are like oh cool I can crack my stick over a reference his head now. That's right, yeah. But you can't touch, like, it's sports, man, you can't touch the official. This is every, every sport. You cannot reach out and give them a little, you know,

a little slap upside the head and go, hey, man, wake up. Just can't do it. And he clearly did it. Yeah, I guess I'm just shocked that the ref was just like, ah, boys will be boys. What can you do? I mean, if the refs are going to do that for elbowing other players in the head, maybe they just, maybe they feel like they got to do it for, but it's, I was surprised. Yeah. How many goals is Mason Marchman getting tonight, do you think? Full haddy or? At least two, yeah.

Yeah, right. Yeah, maybe, maybe only one against, you know, one into the empty net and one against hellibuck or something. but yeah really a never thought I'd see the day style oh I guess I guess a guy was just allowed to do that we used to live in a society we we did

now you know again like the other thing I'm wondering about this is like the was it Dennis Wideman who yep the 20 games got 20 games for shoving a linesman basically from behind. Am I remembering that incident correctly?

Yeah, got hit, claimed to have been concussed and then on the way to the bench. And by the way, I would say pretty credible claim if you watch the replay of that one. But they threw the book at them. And then people went and did like crunch the numbers or whatever and were like, oh, the flames stopped getting calls after that. Yeah. So I do wonder if that becomes the thing. But yeah, maybe. And I mean, the other piece of this was I did see a couple of different people point out that Mason Marchmont has a well-established reputation for embellishment.

And that, you know, this all started because he was mad that he wasn't getting some calls and was making a big scene out of it, let's just say. Yeah, even on the broadcast on Sunday, they were just kind of like, he sold that a little, I think. So I think definitely he's going to have trouble getting calls. But who knows? If enough people say that, we know how sensitive this league is to perceptions

and maybe they turn around and this whole series is going to turn on a Mason-Marchment getting a questionable call because dot, dot, dot, best officials in the world. None better. All right, why don't we take our break and we'll come back and we'll talk about

the series that's not happening tonight and then some other stuff that's happening around the league. This week's episode of Puck Soup is brought to you by our good friends at Mint Mobile. Summer is just around the corner. The folks at Mint Mobile have a hot take. Getting a summer bought us out and getting your savings bod is in. This spring and summer, we want skimpy wireless bills and fat wallets. And with premium

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Up front payments of $45 for three-month, five-gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month, new customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options are available, taxes and fees extra, see Mint Mobile for details. All right, we're back, and let's talk about the series that is taking a couple nights off. These guys got to get their beauty sleep, so we're going to try it again tomorrow with Toronto and Florida. the Maple Leafs, the Panthers, a very, very testy series. Yep. Yep. And a close series.

2-2? Can't get any closer than that. 2-2. Home teams holding serve. Each team, I would say, has played one game where they were pretty clearly better, and then there have been two coin flips in between. What are your thoughts?

Is a neutral party? Sure. I am not super encouraged by what I'm seeing from Austin Matthews, another player who I think is very clearly just not able to play at their full capability due to injury. I think he's probably got like a wrist injury or something like that. He's just not shooting the puck super effectively. which is kind of the whole Austin Matthews thing. Is that he shoots the fuck really well.

So that's a huge problem for the Leafs, but also, like, I don't know, I just, I'll put it this way. I didn't pick the Leafs to win this series anyway. And I just think I'm starting to see that the Panthers are one through 20, the better team. Yeah. And the Leafs starting goaltender got injured on a dirty, intentional. elbow to that, which was a huge deal for 12 hours, and then Paul Marie said stop talking about it, and everybody just stopped talking about it.

Well, there's that as well. Yeah, I'm just saying, like, from what's happening on the ice, this is what my read is. And especially because Wohl was fucking awesome in Game 4. Yeah, he was good. Really his first good game since coming in in Game 1. Oh, yeah, absolutely. But, yeah, no, I mean, this is...

It is, even after the Leafs were up to nothing, you kind of went, let's hold on. Let's see how those next two games go. Let's see if they can go and steal one in Florida and really gain control. And they had a chance. Had a chance. You know, it did get to overtime in game three. But, yeah, I mean, full credit to the Panthers.

Like, this is a very tried and tested championship caliber team. I think a lot of people picked them to come out of this division, even though they were only like a, you know, mid-90s point team because, you know, we know what happens when it all clicks. And you talk about Austin Matthews being hurt, like they're doing this without Matthew Kachok doing much of anything. I keep forgetting he's like, until he like runs somebody or, you know,

does something cheap, like I kind of forget he's even in the series. Yeah, not hugely impactful for sure. or not at all. So, yeah, I mean, it's, it has it been dirty? Had their but, yeah, yeah. I mean, you're playing the Panthers, man. Like, this is, this is what they do. It works.

It certainly feels like for the Leafs, game five is the must win. Oh, yeah, you cannot go down three days or two. A team that can't close than having to win. twice against back-to-back conference champions, one on the road and then one in the dread at game seven. I don't know, man, that's a big, that's a big, big ask. Big lift, yep, absolutely. And it's doable.

This still feels pretty close to coin flippy to me. I haven't seen anything that, you know, obviously I'm a Leafs fan, but that cuts both ways. I'm pretty well known for being a good of, finding the negative. I don't think there's a ton of that here, other than the fact that Austin Matthews is just not scoring. And like you say, the goalie thing is what makes it not like a weighted coin flip too. You know what I mean?

Like, again, Wohl was awesome. I don't know how many more awesome games Woll has in his system. He's a very, you know, he can be a very good goalie. but there's a reason he's not the starter. Yeah, and I mean, the reason he's not the starter is that Stollers just kind of grabbed the job with both hands down the stretch. Totally. I mean, Joseph 1 was good. He was very good last year in the playoffs against Boston until he got hurt and we all know how that turned out.

But, yeah, the Matthews thing is big now. Like, this is going to be this is going to be the story now. And I know it kind of feels like in Leif's world after every postseason, like they spin a wheel and whoever it lands on gets to be the villain for the year. And it's been Mitch Marner for a couple years running. It's going to be Matthews this time. Like there's no, I get that he might be hurt. Maybe it's the wrist.

Maybe it's like still this mystery injury he's head all year with like whether it's his back or whatever or core. He did block a shot with his hand in. the first round, which, you know, that could be bothering him. I'm not sure it matters at this point. And you can never really say that because you get to the end of the playoffs and somebody comes out and, yeah, you know, I had six broken ribs and, you know, my spine was fractured at the vertebrae. Okay.

All right. That makes sense. But it just, he's been invisible offensively. And this stuff about, well, you know, he's still playing a good 200-foot game and doing the thing. Yeah. Yeah. is, but they're not paying him $13 million to be Philip Dinole. Like, he's got to score.

And he's got two goals in the playoffs, one of which was an empty net tap-in. Right. You know, not an empty-net goal, but, like, he literally- Right. Senator's goaltender was facing the wrong direction. Right. Like, could not have been, like, one of those goals that you or I could have scored. And the other one was sort of a weird seeing-eye, sharp.

that he almost whiffed on. We have not seen a single, like, quote-unquote, Austin Matthews goal in the players this year. No, for sure. You can't win when your best player isn't doing anything. Yeah, and again, maybe not his fault, but. Yeah, but, you know, at the end of the day, like, at some point, all right, again, like, what's the injury?

If this is something that would, you know, in the regular season, he would have been out for three months, and he's fighting through, okay. But, I mean, they don't tell us any of this stuff. Like, I don't know, man. Like, is it unfair to sit here and speculate or? Yeah, maybe it is. But they, the NHL has made a conscious decision to not ever, ever, ever share this information with fans. So fans are going to try to figure it out on their own.

Well, the thing I would compare it to is remember when they were like, yeah, Quinn Hughes is playing hurt a little bit? And then, like, you would see him and he'd just have, like, his whole. arm in a cast on the bench and then like he'd go out there and look like Quinn Hughes still, you know? Like I feel like there is a point at which you just have to be like, yeah, I mean, the guy, the guy can't, again, when Austin Matthews, so much of his value is derived from nobody shoots the puck like he does. If he can't shoot the puck, yeah, that's going to nuke a lot of his value. and I don't know. But then what,

then how do you create offense? All right, you've lost your, maybe you don't. Your shot. What do you, well, what are you willing to do to try to create some offense? Sure. I get, no, I get,

I get, I get what you're saying. I just, I just think if they go, oh, he's got, he's got a broken hand or, like he played with a broken hand or whatever. I don't know how you can say he's the villain. Like, I,

especially because, like, it's the reigning Stanley Cup champions and like you said they've been to two conference final or two cup finals in a row and all that like at some point don't you just go maybe we the Toronto Maple Leafs just fucking weren't as good as the Florida Panthers

but you're not going to ever be as good as them if your 13 point whatever million dollar guy isn't playing remotely close to that and and like I'm not saying he's got to out there and start like throwing hits or whatever like bang and crash that's not his style

but he's a big guy i don't know man like it's it's this is now year eight year nine whatever it is for him he has never scored a goal outside the first round of the playoffs right it's not enough man like it's just and i don't know what you do with it because i mean this is normally where you turn around and go, so this is why you have to make this move? No, I mean, he's locked in on a, on a contract. He's not going anywhere, but. I agree. This either sets up for like, you know, I've said many times.

I don't think we have ever seen the Austin Matthews game in the playoffs. I think you're right about that for sure, yeah. Maybe we see it. And then we go, ah, there you go. Or maybe we don't. And man, that's going to be demoral. for Leave fans because this guy's the franchise

and it's starting to feel like he does not have, I don't know what the term would be. The juice? Yeah, let's go with that. He doesn't have the it factor that Leon Dreisdil has or whatever. Got no dog in him.

Wow. He doesn't. Maybe not. I don't think he does. I think William Nealander and John Tavares have got medium size dogs. Mm-hmm. And I think Mitch, you know what Mitch

Marner has in him? He's got like a Rottweiler puppy. That's like, you can see it kind of, but then also it gets easily distracted and, you know, falls down the stairs and stuff like that. So, yeah. Yeah, well, here's what I would say to

maybe make you, maybe you don't want to feel better about this. Maybe you just want to talk about it. I would like to feel better, actually. Well, okay. So here's what I would say. They used to say that same shit about Alex Ovechkin. Yeah. This guy doesn't fucking have it.

Disappears in the playoffs, blah, blah, blah. You can still win a Stanley Cup eventually, you know? Okay. I'll take that. Can I have one? I'm just going to do one. Yeah. Beast mode.

Okay. That's it. Wow. That's it. I'm only, I'm trying to wean myself down. Well, as people that pointed out on the Discord, they're calling Beast Mode. Miko mode now. I've heard that.

Yeah. It's another guy who's got it. A lot of these guys seem to have it. David Drysadle, McKinnon's got it. A lot of guys have it. Do you want to talk about all the, you mentioned dirty plays in the series and stuff like that? This is...

Yeah, what was your thought on Max Domi? Got a fine. I mean, you can't do that, man. I don't know how else to put it to you. You know? Again, clear message sending. Like, I'll say this. I wonder what makes it so different from the Kachuk hit that they were like,

we do actually have to do supplementary discipline. I don't know. Why is it that different from? Who was it the through the chicken wing and Marner? Like, who got or someone? Fuck who. I don't remember who it was now. Like, that's a clear attempt to elbow somebody in the head.

Now, it didn't happen with 30 seconds left, but yeah, is it that different than Matthew Kachuk trying to slew foot, Marner at the end of game one? Right. I guess. Apparently it is. Well, so to me, my read on it a little bit was this is getting out of hand. Yeah. And the league saying like, okay, the next one, everybody's in trouble, you know? Sure.

Like, I hear you kids in there goofing around when you're supposed to be going to sleep. Next time I open this door, everybody's grounded. That's kind of what this was to me. Now, and here's the thing. Of the guys throwing all the illegal hits in this series so far, the most suspendable one where it's like you're not killing the team by putting that guy on the shelf for a game is Max Domey. Yeah. Right?

Like, Chuck and Bennett and all these guys. Like, Max Domi is the most suspendable guy of that group for sure. And so, like, that, I'm a little surprised they didn't, you know, just go, look, we got to, we got to do something about this. You guys, we're going to make an example out of somebody. I'm really surprised they didn't just go, it's a game for Domi, who gives a shit. But. Maybe. But the fine kind of conveys the same point to me.

Which, yeah, I mean, a fine is nothing. I'm... Oh, of course it's nothing, but... It's just going to be very strange to me if we get to the end of this series. And the only player who got any supplemental discipline was one of the leaves. Like, if I was the Department of Player's Safety, I probably would have fined Domi and Kulikov. It was Kulikov, by the way. It was, clear.

It was. It was, right. On Marner. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, because you've seen the Max Domey replay 8,000 times, and you're like, oh, what happened on Kulikov? Go look it up. It's pretty bad. You could have got both of them, but I guess a lot of times the league doesn't like to,

there was no penalty at all on the Kulikov thing, so they don't like to do that to the refs. But, yeah. Well, and also, again, it was, that was, I thought that should have been a major penalty, to be clear. But it was, like you said, not at the end of the game. And so it's, you, could say it's more in the flow of the game.

I mean, Max Gomi could have done that with 10 minutes left in a one minute, a one goal game, and they probably wouldn't have called it, even though it was a transparent, like, run at the other team's best player. It was insane. They would have game managed their way out of it. Like, what did you, did you see at all, did this even make it onto your radar, the William Naylander bench play that a lot of fans are mad about? I don't, I don't think I know about this.

So he is, um, he's, um, he's, He's kind of going to the boards with a Panthers player. And as, you know, it's away from the puck. It's not like a huge, they're engaged physically, but it's, you know, it's not a major thing. And he kind of, the Panther player kind of gives him a shove towards the Panthers bench. And at that moment, one of the Panthers opens the bench door. And, you know, it goes like hip first into the into the, into the, the opening and then ends up

getting pushed onto the bench and gets called for offside, which is pretty funny. We all learned a new wrinkle in the rules. You can be offside even if you're not on the ice, which is pretty cool. But it was, and it was not a line change. Right. And it wasn't even like, you know, I saw

some people were like, well, yeah, but he thought the guy, he thought the Panthers guy was coming off, but it was a Panthers forward and the forwards changed the other end. So it was just pretty transparently like, oh, here comes a guy on the other team. I'm just going to open the bench door and let them just go groin first into the...

And yeah, okay. It's just dirty, greasy stuff happening in this series. And if we get to the end of it and the only one that got any kind of league sanction is on the Leafs, it's certainly going to... It's going to help the Panthers' reputation as a team that seems to have a near miraculous ability to skate right up to the line and not go over it. Let's put it that way.

So I was talking about this with someone yesterday and I was like, yeah, the Panthers have really, like, I was pro Panthers last year. I didn't feel like they were this dirty last year. They have been extremely dirty for me in these. They were very dirty last year. They were dirty before that. Like, you know, the again. And the easiest way. Yeah, I understand.

The easiest way to think a team is dirty is to just watch them play against your team in the playoffs. Because then you're still there with a little no-pad noting, you know, they open the bench door. That's really, you know, like, all right. Right. So, I mean, two years ago against the Leafs, they were a super dirty team then. Had one game where the refs seemed to notice and call penalties, and then Paul Maurice held up his fingers, and that was it for calling any penalties for the rest of that series. And the Panthers loved it. And they went far with it.

I mean, look, there is a, there's a very, very strong element here where it's like you can sit and cry about how officiating works in the playoffs, or you can recognize it and you can tailor your team towards that and win. Yeah. Well, to that point, though, like the Panthers really built a team of guys who play like that, but are also extremely good. Yeah. You know what I mean? going out and getting Marshand and Bennett and Kachuk, like these are all guys who play a certain way up to

the line and all this kind of stuff. But also and this is, so the thing that I could kind of compare this to is like, remember when Tom Wilson was just like on the tour of like just a million dirty plays

and he would only get suspended every once in a while and part of that was because the league, it seemed like the league would go, well, if we, man, if we suspend him for this, like, we've got to give him like 15 games because he's a, you know, he's a repeat offender and all this. And so they were just like, ah, that's not really suspendable, I guess. And it feels like that's what's happening with the Panthers, where there's so many guys

where it's like, look, we can't, again, we can't take Sam Bennett out of their lineup for, a dirty elbow. And in fact, that's it, right? Like, they don't like to suspect. And star players, pretty much ever, unless it's Austin Matthews or Morgan Riley. But. I mean, Morgan Riley, we're calling a star player now. Come on. Good point. It's a good point.

But, yeah, that's kind of my thing with it. Again, like the domy thing is now they get to say, you all need to be on your best behavior. The next guy who does it is actually going to get in trouble. Right. But the next guy who does, like when, you know, like we all some, the clip of Matthew Kachuk yelling at William Nealander. I'm going to get Jingay, you know, after Domi hit Barkov, he sort of

picked the guy. And we all, you know, we all saw that because it being Matthew Kachuk, he made sure the camera was right in his face when he did it. But he could run out and, you know, take a run at William Nealander. You're going to suspend him for a

game six, an elimination game? No, they're not. Not unless he, like, puts the guy the hospital. And even then. And even then, probably not. We'll actually hear about how it was overblown that the guy went to the hospital. Yeah, exactly.

Laying it on a little thick or whatever, you know. Really? Okay. But yeah, to me, like, you're right that this is good team building by the Panthers at a certain point. Yeah, like, at some point they have built a very good. good playoff team. So where are you at on the series? What's the, what's your call? I think

I think I got to stick with the Panthers just because like I think they have a better one. Like I picked them to win the series a week ago or whatever it was, a week and a half. And it's two to two and there have been two very

close games like you said. But I picked them before their starting goal he got injured and it became really apparent that the Leafs best forward, that the Leafs best forward seems to be pretty injured. Okay. Six or seven? I'll go with six.

All right. Is that crazy? I'm going to say the Leafs win game five. Lose game six and I'm certainly not going to pick the Leafs to win a game seven, let's just say. But I think we got a couple more twist and turns in this than that. That feels like it's probably true, yeah. Okay. You're probably right.

But anyway. Other news around the league, Joel Quinville, hired by the Anaheim Ducks. Yeah, I mean, we knew this was coming somewhere. I'm not, I certainly two months ago wouldn't have picked Anaheim to be the spot. Well, the second they said, oh, you know, they talked to Joel Quinville. I was like, okay, this is a trial balloon. They're going to hire Joel Quinn. Yep.

Like, why would you talk to him and not? and go somewhere else if you're an NHL team and you're like, we need to take a step and all this kind of stuff. He is the best coach available from a pure hockey standpoint. Yeah. And from that standpoint, you know, I guess the argument, and this is Patford Beat flattering himself a little bit, but would be, hey, when he took over that Chicago team,

it was still a young team. Mm-hmm, absolutely. They hadn't done anything yet. They had the pieces, but they hadn't put it together. and then he takes over early in that season. They make the playoffs and off they go. We'll see. I mean, it's probably better for him than he doesn't land in like a major media market.

Well, I think that's part of the calculation as well. For sure, I think that. And, you know, as far as, I mean, to me, if once the league said that he could come back, once Stan Bowman got hired. That's exactly right. I think we're at the stage where I very much understand there's a lot of people who don't want anyone who is involved in that situation in the league. And I'm one of them. I said before, I don't think either of these guys or any of these guys should be allowed in the NHL anymore.

But horses out of the barn. I think it's fucked up. It's sort of that ship sailed when the league made them eligible again and certainly when Bowman went back. And I will say that a lot of this has accompanied them saying the right things about like, you know, I worked with X, Y and Z groups and all that kind of stuff. And at least, you know, I don't know, I don't know of Stan, I don't recall Stan Bowman saying this kind of thing. But, like, Quenville has at least said, and like, it's easy to say this. so I'm not like giving him credit. But he said, I'm going to continue to work with victims groups and all that kind of stuff.

And we're never going to see any of that, I would imagine. We're never going to see that work. And so, again, hard for me to sit here and go. And so you actually absolutely have to take that at face value. I don't think we should. I think that, you know, but again, like I just. And the absolute last part we should ever take at face value is in any, of these situations, whether it's a player or coach,

you know, anyone accused a bad behavior, when the team says, oh, we looked into it. Oh, yeah, that is such. Because you started from the standpoint of this is the answer we want to get to. Yes, of course. Yeah, we're going to look,

we're going to do an investigation until we find enough things to put in the pile that says he's a good guy. And we're going to discard everything else. And then we're going to go, oh, it looks like he's a good guy. And like you This isn't even a knock on the ducks.

This is every sports team. Oh, yeah, it's just the reality for sure. Full of it. Oh, yeah, we looked into it. Sure you did. Yeah, like I say, I don't think this guy should. For me personally, I, it would be a no for me. But it was never not going to be a no.

And so I don't know, man. I just like, and this is the other thing too of like, oh, well, we talk to Kyle Beach. And it's like, well, Kyle Beach shouldn't be like in charge of that guy's career forever. You know, like, hey, do you want to, do you want to be the guy who continually gets in the way of other people working in the sport and all that kind of stuff? Well, like, it puts Kyle Beach in a bad position, in my opinion. And maybe he doesn't feel that way. I don't know. Yeah, he should have every right to go like, guys, don't call me.

figure it out on your own. I don't need to constantly be reminded of, you know, the... Yep. One of the worst experiences of my life, so get lost. Yeah, to me, I guess it boils down to it's not for me to say, you know? But it also, like, it shouldn't have to be for any, any, like, victim to say, like, and I absol, like, I, you know, I'm, I'm signing off on X, Y, and Z. Yeah.

I think it's just fucked up. I don't know. I mean, I guess you'd just say that the winningest coach in modern NHL history was out for, what, three years? Three or four, yeah. I mean, it's not nothing. It's certainly more accountability than there would have been a generation ago, but. Sure. I mean, I don't know that you pat yourself in the back too much for clearing that bar.

Yeah. Yep. Oh. Can I say one thing I thought was funny about this? Can try. Pierre LeBron talked to Greg Cronin yesterday or the day before. Yes. And Greg Cronin was like, I was shocked.

It was like, you were shocked? It does kind of feel like, and again, this is, this sort of gets to this whole like, oh, we really thought about this and went back and, you know, we decided that Quimbo be okay. It kind of feels like it was more of like, hey, Gray Cronin got only two years. He'd been doing the job that they wanted him to do. Team did take a big step forward last year.

But, all right, Quenville's not only available, but we feel like we can, you know, we can hire him. We jump at it. Like not almost like the St. Louis Jim Montgomery thing where it was like, yeah, you've been fine, but we got to, we got to.

There's an obvious guy. is more than fine, we think. Which, you know, then, if you then do that, you do your so-called investigation and find out he's, you know, he's not what you think. Then where are you? Right. You've already made your mind up is the idea there.

Yep. So I just thought, I saw that headline and I was like, he was shocked that he lost his job after the last two years of what the Anaheim ducks did. Mm-hmm. that's weird to me. That strikes me as strange. But it's just the way it goes, I guess.

So yeah, I don't know. What are the other? Let's do the other coaches. Well, I guess the only one that's really going on right now is Rick Tocke, right? Yeah. This is weird. So where did you see that? Because you put in the outline to me that you'd seen something about him just

taking a year off or doing TV. Where's that coming from? Because that strikes me as odd. So, yeah, it was a post Rick Dollywall had yesterday where he said, Friedman on Rick Tockett Future. Seattle wants him,

but I am not convinced he wants to go there. He is high on Philly's radar, but not sure that happens. Canucks offered four million-ish. Don't see the Bruins wanting to go that high. People are saying don't rule out TV for him. That's what the tweet I saw yesterday said. Okay.

Hmm. I, it just, I've assumed all along that it was Philadelphia. That just felt like such an obvious fit that... It did indeed. It did indeed. But, who knows? Islanders need a GM. Question mark?

Did you see this report yesterday that Lou might stick around in some capacity? Yeah, like advisor to the owner or something like that. like the idea was that he would he would not be a consultant or advisor to the new GM right but he would be to the owner

yes that's right which I don't know man if you're if I've got a boss and you're the consultant my boss listens to you're kind of my boss sure I mean

like is this is which leads I mean you wonder like okay then who wants to take that job when you've got the ghost of Lou hovering over you? Well, that's a great, it's a great question. And to me, the interesting thing about it is who has been rumored to be the guys that the islanders are looking at.

For a while, it was Ken Holland. and then we'll talk about Ken Holland maybe being an L.A. guy now. Sure sounds like it. It does seem like that. And then it was the three names I saw in the last day or two, Mark Bergevin, Yarmou Kecklein, and Matthew Darsh. So two retreads and a guy who's never done it before. Yep.

So, yeah, I mean, I'm not sure any of the. those guys are going to say, I want no part of Lou or, you know, whatever remnants of him are still around. I mean, those are three interesting candidates. I know, you know, Bergevans sort of that guy who does the rebuild, starts the rebuild, at least, leaves. You don't think about them. And then a couple years later when the team's good or starting to become good, you go,

oh, right, that guy. and, you know, they suddenly gets a bit of a shine on him. Yeah, I mean, you could, would he be at the top of my list? I'm not sure. Yeah, that's the thing, right? He seems to be the guy that a lot of people think is maybe the frontrunner, but. Yeah. And I get it from a certain point of view, you know, but at the same time, I'm just like,

the guy who got the Canadians to a point where they accidentally made the cup final that one time. And like, you know, I guess I don't need to say it, but like completely fake playoff, right? Like, ridiculous how fake that playoff was. And I don't know, man. To me, I just, I don't know if I'm like, if I'm an Islanders fan, I'm super psyched to be getting and the guy who did like 75% of the building for the current Canadians. Yeah. And then Yarmow, it's like.

And had a very, a very up and down track record with that team as far as, you know, when they were in a contention window. He was there for a while. Oh, yeah. Some of it worked and some of it didn't. And we should also point out, of course, he's got the connections to the Chicago thing. He does have the Logamayu pick

kind of still hanging over him that is so yeah, I don't know. Not necessarily a guy that I think a lot of a lot of fans are rooting for. Yarmo would be interesting. Friend of the show.

A guy that just from my own perspective guy did a lot of big moves trading wise. Certainly. did. So, you know, just from a pure entertainment standpoint, like, you know, that, that would be interesting. And again, yeah, has a strong track record and, you know, look at what they've got in Columbus.

He built a chunk of that. Totally. That would be interesting. And then, you know, Matthew Darch feels like he said his name out there forever. Yes. Who was the guy, who was the King's guy that was mentioned? for like every GM job for was it Mike Fuda yes for years and years and years and never got never got it but yeah Darsh isn't quite at that level yet but he's yeah to me if I'm the

islanders I'm certainly not hiring a first time GM to do a rebuild for me and Darsh it like out of certainly out of those three guys Darsh I think it has more ability to be selective. You know, I think if you're a GM who was around for a while, you didn't win a cup, you didn't build a dynasty, that sort of thing, to get that next opportunity, you can't be super picky. Yeah, I think that's true. But, okay, so I pulled it up.

He has been in Tampa's front office since 1920. Director of Hockey Operations for a good little. That feels like a long time. Over 100 years. Yeah, it's time to move on, buddy. Director of Hockey Operations for this entire time, but then more recently upgraded to Assistant GM as well. And, you know, say what you want. Well, okay, I guess this is the reason I maybe don't want Matthew Darje if I'm a, if I'm a Islanders fan, is I'm going, oh, that's a guy who's been director of hockey operations for a team that doesn't draft.

Mm-hmm. They just don't get involved in it, really, you know? Yeah, that's fair. We have the first overall pick. Maybe I don't want, I guess maybe you could also say it's pretty easy to make the first overall pick. Yeah, that's a hard one to mess up. Yeah. Not impossible.

Yeah. Not impossible. And this year, it is trickier than others. Yeah. No, and, yeah, I mean, I said it last week. maybe they should trade down and get their guy at two or three. The guy from Long Island, James Higgins. That's what I like that, but they're not going to.

Cowards. They'll never do it. Yeah, to me, I just always feel like it's very rare that you take a defenseman first overall and everyone's like, and we're really happy that happened, you know? Like even if that guy turns out to be an awesome defenseman, like one of the best in the league, Very rarely do you go, and he was absolutely the right choice for defensemen first overall. I don't know. Anyway, we're kind of getting.

But yeah, it's the same thing with Yarmow, though. It's like, yeah, he drafted a lot of the guys that are making Columbus good-ish right now. But also, you know, look at where they are really, realistically. And it's not that hard to draft when you're picking up. super high every year. Mm-hmm. So, I don't know who, if I'm an Islanders fan. I don't, like, I think I'd be fine with maybe any of these guys, but I wouldn't be, like,

doing backflips either, you know? Oh, yeah, we got Mark Perciven, yeah. Like, that's just not a reaction anybody would have. Ryan, if, if you want Chris Lamarillo, just saying. He built a historic HAL team. There you go. Did he not? Pretty sure he did.

No further questions, Your Honor. Ken Holland in L.A. Yeah. Seems like this is where it's going. Well, it's, I mean, I think Daily Faceoff basically reported it as done. It has not been announced as of, as we're recording this, but this feels more like more than a rumor to me. Yeah. No, no.

For Elliott said it's, it's trending in that direction or something like that. everybody is basically saying it's done, but it just hasn't been enough. Yeah, Frank Sarvelli says Ken Holland will indeed become the next GM of the LA King. When did you say that? That was last night. I didn't see it. Well, there you go. Again, nothing official yet.

Nothing's done until it's done. But yeah, certainly not the most inspiring pick, but you can see where they're going. But I don't know that this is the right fit. And I don't know. I mean, to me, I've got a lot of time for Ken Holland as a president, as a hockey ops guy, as an advisor. I don't know if I'd want him steering the ship. Oh, wait a minute. I just saw Darren Drager tweeted this.

We'll circle back to the Ken Holland thing in a second. Darren Drager, strong indications this week. Rick Tockett will soon land another NHL head coaching job. Philly, Boston, Seattle believed to be among the top. Tenders, flyer want to be aggressive, good fit. So that sounds like flyers to me. Flyers want to be a great. Yeah, I mean, it is a good fit, but we've been waiting three weeks now for this.

Yeah, well, okay, let me say this. Is it a good fit? Is it a good fit? He's a former flyer. Well, okay. That makes it a good fit. Do they have for the job, man? Come on.

That makes it a good fit. Can I ask you very seriously? Is Rick Tockeet a good NHL? I think he is. I think that the job he did in Vancouver last year shows that he's a good NHL coach in the right situation. Can't manage the room, it seems like, right? There were maybe some minor history problems. Okay.

And let me just look up. What did he do so good last year or two years ago for the Canucks? What did he do so good? it says here they had a team shooting percentage of 12 and the league average was 10 and a 906 save percentage the league average was 898 so yeah I mean if he can get him to do that that'd be great they did get outshot that Phillies got good gold handing right oh yeah it's great okay well there you go they got and again they got out shot that season they were minus doing the math year really quickly.

They were minus 17 and shots on goal, which isn't everything. And, you know, talent kind of, you know, can paper over some of that. And when I think of talented teams, I think of the Philadelphia Flyers. Ooh, those guys, they are deep up front. So I ask again, is Rick talking a good coach or did he have one PDO season? Rick, signed the contract with the Flyers before they hear, before they call up Ryan an offering. a consultant's role on this. 659 points from 638

NHL games. It's over 500, man. I'm just doing the math really quickly here. That's an 85 points per 82 in his career. Now look, he coached like the depths of the lightning mediocrity teams. And he coached the Arizona coyotes. So, you know,

that's something. But, you know, didn't really get those guys where they needed to go. And the fly, I'll just say this. And then we'll leave it at this. I just think the flyers are a lot more in the Arizona, Tampa mode right now than the Vancouver mode.

Okay. He shows up in Vancouver. They have J.T. Miller. They have Thatcher Demko. They have Quinn Hughes. They have Elias Pedersen. Is he, did he ring a lot of value out of Elias Patterson? I mean, it sounds to me like you're, you're pushing him to Boston here,

because everything you're saying about Phillies, true of Seattle, too. I'm just saying if I'm any of these teams, I'm not, like, eager to hire him. Or as eager. Rick, talk it together. As eager as all these teams seem to be. Okay. He has, okay. obviously there's some shortened seasons in here and all this kind of thing.

But how many seasons do you think he has above 90 points in his 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 year coaching career, some of which are partial seasons. I will stick with my guess of 3. 2. This year and last year. That's it. And this year, team that didn't make the playoffs. And they got to 90 points. Okay.

Like I say, look, they were trending that way. They were trending pretty well in Arizona when the, when COVID happened, 74 points in 70 games. But that's not like great, you know, that's a, that's a worst points percentage than they had this year. To me, I'm not, again, I'm not doing backflips if my team hires Rick Talk. I was kind of hoping you would do some backflips. I don't think I could do it. No, I'm not sure. could. You know, this is one of those things. You get, you get, you get, you let me practice for a year. Maybe I could do one. But I still. On solid ground or like, I mean, I'd settle for like you doing backflips on a trampoline. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I'd be. I feel like I could do one on on a trampoline. For our next supotle, somebody nominate Ryan to do a backflip. You, uh, if, if you do, you, you have to buy the trampoline. I'm not, I'm not buying that shit. Or I guess you could pay for me to go to trampoline part.

for the next few for the summer. That's right. We're going to get some of the end of summer sales and yeah. Ryan out there doing backflips on a frozen trampoline in Boston in February.

I wouldn't. You know what? The snow would break my fall though. And my neck. It'd be fine. Yeah, so I mean, back to Ken Holland is there, I'm not.

But what's the path here for the Kings? They, well, look, I guess the thing is he'll tell them what it takes to beat the Oilers. He used to work there. I don't know if you know that. Yeah. I don't know. And he certainly knew how to prevent the Oilers from having success.

I mean, that is kind of his specialty. I'll say this. That's a cheap shot. He was fine in Edmonton. He was fine in Edmonton is right. And, you know, I think if you looked up all his trades, like you would say probably a minor net positive. But he also had the cheap. He walks in the door and they're like, and these are your two best employees,

Connor McDavid and Leon Dreisidel. And he goes, oh, nice to meet you guys. You know, that's the hard part of the job is done there, you know? I just got to make sure there are guys that can like skate backwards when they're off the ice. And he did an okay job of that. Did he make the Cody CCC trade? It's impossible to know. No way to know.

I'm legitimately asking, I don't know. the answer to that question. I feel like he was the guy who engineered that. But anyhow, um, yeah, I think you can say that like he's a steady hand on the rudder. You know, like, I don't think he's going to like fuck the kings up. Well, I'll put it that way. Right. Like, yeah. I think he learned his lesson from Detroit of like giving out the Justin Abdelcator style contracts. I don't think he's doing that anymore. Okay. I just don't know what fixes he's making either.

Yeah, and I don't know. I don't think it's an easy job to take. No, absolutely not. I don't. But I guess we'll find out. We will see. It's a really entrenched roster, you know. Yeah, and it's an entrenched roster that has spent four years very clearly telling you who they are.

Yep. which is they are the team that is not going to get past the Oilers. Right. Yeah, again, you're just kind of hoping you don't get the Oilers in the first round. And that's your goal every year now. It's tough, man. And again, I think I said it last week or the week before or something, but like, are we sure we're getting any more seasons like this out of Darcy Kemper? Because if not, it could go real sideways real fast.

He was awesome this year. but I don't know how reliable I think that is. Fair. So I guess we'll have to wait and see. But I also guess I don't have any more to say about any stuff in the NHL this week. Okay. Have they done any like more awards finalists announcing? I feel like they haven't, right?

Did we get the heart? Yeah, it's all the... So I don't think we did anything after that. Yeah. I mean, I saw like Willie O'Ree and stuff like that. Did we ever get Jack Adams finalists? Didn't we? I don't know.

It says here we did. Okay. Arneal, Talkett, and where's the other one? No, that was last year. No, Arneal Talk, yeah, not Talket, sorry. Are Neal Carberry, San Luis? Yeah. I think that's about right.

Yeah. President's trophy winner, guy that made the caps good, guy that got the Canadians into the playoffs. Yeah. No, that seems fine. Yeah. I mean, that Carberry is going to win, so. And we won't get Jim of the year until a couple days from now. Yeah, that's true.

You think Carberry is going to win for sure, huh? I can see people talking themselves into San Luis. Everybody thought that team was going to be horrible this year. Yeah. Tough bounce for Scott Arneill. Hey, you built a president's trophy winner. Fuck off. We don't want to hear from you.

Yeah. I think it's, I think it's Carberry because, like, there's also partly, and it's, it's what? It's the broadcasters for the jack-out of us, right? So, you know, they're media guys. They love the narrative. There's kind of the feeling that Carberry maybe got stiffed last year. St. Louis is, everybody loves the guy. but yeah.

I don't think he can go wrong picking either one, quite frankly. I think I think Carberry is is my pick, but you're right. I was, I was a little too sure of myself just now. Yeah. Like I say, I think I can even see the Arneal argument, except of course he told Connor Hellabuck to, you know, be the best goalie in the world again. But between Carberry and San Luis, I, hats off to you. You both did a great job, you know?

That's all. But yeah, I feel like that announcement came and went without me noticing at all. Sure. Nobody talked about it. And I pay attention to this stuff. It's my job. Maybe not good enough attention. Anyway, why don't you hit us with the plugs and we'll get out of here?

If I made the athletic, I'll be on with other Sean and Frankie tomorrow's podcast. Subscribe to the newsletter. and read my articles, including tomorrow. We're going to do all 16 possible Stanley Cup finals ranked, just based on how fun they would be. Wow. Narratives and vibes and all that sort of thing. What do you think would be number one?

Number one narratives, vibes. God. Would it be, would it be Leif's Jets? would you be the Canadian guy saying lease jets? And wouldn't that be so cool? You'll have to tune in. Wow. Now that's a tease, folks.

There you go. Yeah, all of that stuff. What do you got? I have elite prospects. You know, I'm writing two, three times a week every week and all that kind of thing. And I, again, the draft guide's coming out very soon. We're nailing everything down and, you know, now's the time. We also have great coverage of like the Memorial Cup and all that kind of stuff coming up.

So great time. It's always a good time to be signing up for elite prospects, but now with, you know, it's prospects time, really. This and, you know, this time of year and World Juniors are the two biggest periods for our business, I think you'd say. So check all that out, elite prospects. Maybe they're doing a deal right now. I don't know. But also head over to patreon.com slash puck soup, where we are doing tonight on our discord, the call-in show, where we'll take questions and play games and things like that from the listeners. And this is the important part, Sean.

One of the games, probably the only game we're playing, because I'm planning for this one to go along a bit. We're doing soup feud. We asked listeners of the show to answer, I think, like 20 questions, survey style, family feud style questions. And I have, I sat down yesterday, Sean, or two days ago, I think, and I wrote note cards for every category. Wow. Okay. So that, so that everything's... And I'm not supposed to do anything on this, right?

Like, I'm not looking at the questions in advance or anything. Correct. Okay. Yeah, you're going in blind. As blind as humanly possible. I know, like, you and Greg and SG all came up with categories to help me out with them. And so that was helpful. So we might have used one or two of yours that you suggested.

But I have one, two, three, four, five, six rounds, including fast money of note cards written down, ready to go. And we'll be doing that starting at 9 p.m. Eastern tonight, Tuesday night. And if you can't make it for whatever reason, you can just listen to it. The replay or whatever you want to call it will just be uploaded on the Patreon Wednesday morning. So no better time than the present to sign up. And hey, maybe you can be on Team Sean or Team Greg as the case may be. There you go. And if you're on Team Sean, like you better bring it.

Yeah, Sean. I will bench guys. I will get, like, we're not. I don't want to hear that you're hurt or you're putting or none of this. Deliver or don't. Yeah. We'll find somebody who will. Next man up.

Or woman. Yeah. So there you go. Check all that out. Thanks for listening. And we are back next week. Thanks so much, everybody. Have a good one.

Bye bye.