PurePerformance - Don't babysit your AI Agents to keep them on track with Lukas Holzer
Episode Date: April 27, 2026AI coding agents are fast—but speed alone doesn’t guarantee quality. In this episode, Andi Grabner talks with Lukas Holzer (Straion) about why large context files and “almost right” AI code cr...eate new risks for engineering teams. You will learn about the "Lost in the Middle Syndrom" and why many organizations are not getting the promised 10x engineering boost right now!Andi and Lukas also explore rule adherence, dynamic context generation, enterprise readiness for AI-first development, and how software engineering roles are evolving in the age of AI.Tune in to learn more ...Links we discussedLinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lukas-holzer/Straion Website: https://straion.com/90 Percent Rule Blog: https://straion.com/blog/90-percent-rule-adherence-straion-coding-agents/1million tokens Blog: https://straion.com/blog/1m-tokens-wont-save-your-engineering-standards/
Transcript
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It's time for pure performance.
Get your stopwatches ready.
It's time for pure performance with Andy Grabner and Brian Wilson.
Welcome everyone to another episode of Pure Performance.
As always, when something like this happens when it's not the sexy voice of Brian Wilson,
but it's just the average regular voice of Andy Grabner.
Welcoming you to another episode, unfortunately, Brian can't make it today.
But you know, it is the time or I guess it's the time of,
of our industry right now
that we are optimizing things away.
Maybe we're just optimizing
Brian away with AI.
I don't hope so obviously
because we want the human touch.
Talking about human touches,
I have invited somebody
that actually doesn't live too far away from me.
Lucas Horza.
Servas Lucas.
Hey, nice to meet you.
Hey,
hey, Lucas, we just,
obviously I knew that you are also based
in Linz.
I didn't know that you are living dead close.
Just maybe two kilometers away
from here or a
kilometer and a half.
Lucas,
the two of us,
we both had a time
when we both worked
at Dinotrace,
but you now started
on a new adventure.
Could you quickly
just remind me
a little bit about
the background
about yourself
before we jump into the topic,
which obviously
has to do with AI.
So this was not a joke
to start it like this.
AI is upon us
and you are doing
some really cool stuff
at Estryon.
But first,
maybe some background.
Who are you?
and why do you think you're here today in my podcast?
Yeah, thank you.
As I said, Lucas is my name.
I'm one of the three co-founders of Strayon.
So my background comes originally none from the IT field.
So I was at Graphic and Communication Design at school,
and I somehow managed to get into IT and get a good job at Dinotrace
where I learned a ton about engineering and software development.
and yeah at some point the CEO of Netlify a big Silicon Valley company
just landed in my inbox and asked me if I want to build a build system there
which was super exciting so that was moving very quickly then
and I always been in sync with my other two co-founders
because we've all three worked at Dinotrace together
so it's Fabian Friedel who worked until the end at Dinotrace
and my other co-founder, Katrin Freyhofener.
She had a quick, like a longer internet
to add Elastic.
Probably everybody knows it from Elasticsearch
and kind of a competitor
of Dana Trace back then.
Yeah, and we all three seen this problem
in AI space,
especially when it came to spec-driven
development. So that was kind of
where we started the whole journey with
Strayon in the field of
you know, everybody wants to
build a software with AI back then with a two-liner and this doesn't quite work.
And this was like the time where specs and RFCs and everything was quite a thing.
And we've seen that at Dynotrays, Elastic and Netlify.
And this was one of the early startings of this.
It's so funny when you say back then, this is what we thought about AI coding or wipe coding.
Back then is not that far in the past.
So this also shows us how fast things are changing.
Now, you mentioned you found Estreya on back in 2024?
Yeah, end of 2024.
We officially founded it.
And we were pretty lucky to get like a huge governmental grant from the state basically.
So we could all work full time from beginning 2025.
Cool.
Hey, when I look at some of the material that you've put out there, right?
You have some really cool slogans.
And I think this is also a great way for our discussion today.
Now, we're not going to use this as a sales opportunity today.
Rather, I want to discuss with you what real problems to resolve.
We are just a couple of years into the whole AI native coding era
or whatever is going to be called in the future.
You basically say AI coding agents are fast,
but sometimes they're going on off in the wrong direction.
And I've experienced this myself that it's amazing.
how productive you can be,
but sometimes you're just producing stuff
that actually either nobody needs
or stuff that doesn't work as expected.
You also have some really interesting stats that you are showing,
and I think these are stats from,
you also have the links from Stack Overflow,
from Coder Rabbit, from pull flow,
that a lot of developers are very frustrated.
I'm quoting here,
66% of developers are frustrated by AI,
code that's almost right.
We see a 23.5,000,
percent increase in incidents per pull request year over year.
And plus 70% of more major issues in AI authored PRs.
And this feels like a reality that we didn't anticipate, huh?
I mean, I kind of did.
I think if you check Reddit and you or like those developer forums where you see
like people using AI and how they're using AI.
It is kind of, yeah, it explains why GitHub has probably the worst uptime ever.
And like big companies like Amazon have like really big outages because it's like kind of, you know,
as a developer, I had so many poor requests in my life that I just waived through or
stamped through because it looked almost right, but it didn't did like, yeah, look very
deeply into it on every detail because it almost looks right.
And I think that's the same with now AI producing code that doesn't adhere to your engineering
rules.
But let me ask you a question.
I've been in the industry since 1999, right?
I started my engineering career as a software quality engineer.
So while I was in software engineer, I had to start in the software quality department,
which taught me a lot about software quality.
Over the years, I advocated a lot for automated testing, good CICD.
Shouldn't we have all of the tools available that can detect almost right but not completely right code,
whether it's written by a human or N.E.I. automatically?
I mean, that's a really good question.
Like, to be honest, I think the point is who defines.
what is a good quality code.
I think that
that's the first thing. And I think
if you're like a solo
deaf that works on a site project,
you're probably really
satisfied with what Claude gives you.
Like if you have a side project
and you just ask it to build like
I mean, I have friends that
build like they are not in the
IT industry at all. They don't
know how to program, but they are
currently capable of building dashboards
and small apps to solve
some quick use cases.
And if you would ask them, they say, like, it's perfect.
Like, they are now capable of building things that they previously couldn't do.
And it looks good and it feels good.
They can deploy it.
And it works.
I even know a friend, a very good startup founder friend that has, like, a finance startup
with, like, significant revenue that is 100% wipecoded.
And, like, they have customer traction.
And it kind of works.
It's just, I think that the problem gets bigger or that the quality definition of, like, larger enterprises is quite a different one from, like, a small or mid-sized companies.
Yeah, and I think this is also kind of like I want to play a little bit devil's advocate here, so you maybe can tell.
I want to poke some holes into what I have been trying to advocate for for the last 20 years, right?
This is investing in big foundational aspects of software engineering.
And as you said, I think many large organizations that have grown their software engineering practices over the years,
some of them are really good, but some of them also now, I think, feel it even more where they didn't invest in good automation, in good CI,
so continuous integration, in good CD, in good automated testing.
Because nowadays, as you said, right, there's the promise of the 10x product.
activity gain. So if we are
using coding agents and we're producing
10x the code, 10x
the functions, the features,
but we have holes
in our CICD,
it's going to be really hard
to catch all of this. It's probably
impossible because we were not able to catch it
before, but before the output was
smaller or
less and now it's going to be
really challenging.
I think that the point is, even if you have
the best CICD, I think
you cannot catch everything.
Like that's something
we focus with Strayon a lot
is like there are so many rules
that are not lintable
or testable because it's like
kind of like normally an engineer
would review it based on
their experience, on their knowledge
and tell you
like hey, that's the way how
we write software and that's not
like lintable via
an abstract syntax tree of the code
or it's not
testable because it's like such a detail.
For sure, there could be some tests like every login flow
needs a social login or something like that.
That could be probably very good tested.
But I think the nuances there are pretty hard.
And I mean, test times in CI probably currently
rise the bit or spiked a bit.
Yeah, that's true.
So then Lucas, let me ask you then the question.
If coding agents promise the 10x productivity,
but now engineers spend time keeping them on track.
That's also one of the lines that I stole from your deck and your website.
You've flagged it the hidden costs.
What can we do?
And what can, especially organizations that have been around for a while
that are now facing the challenge, they have to become an AI-first company, right?
I think that's the big challenge.
Everybody wants to become AI-first or AI.
How can they make sure they're not driving in the wrong direction with high speed?
I think there are multiple angles.
I would first start on tracking progress.
Like there are some cool Dora metrics that really tell your engineering organization,
like there are companies like I don't advertise but jellyfish for example.
They can really give you very well insights in how long does it take from like creating an issue until it's really deployed.
And those metrics, you probably should.
should have up front in place so that you have something to pen to benchmark and to see if
the 10x productivity gain that they are all advertising for is really holding up later then.
And then I think requirements engineering got so much more important as a daily job.
And like we are talking to a lot of big companies.
And often we hear like, yeah, the engineering standards or rules, first of all,
they are scattered across multiple sources.
or in the worst case, they're just in the head of single individuals.
And I think that's a big problem if it's just in the head of someone,
because if this person is leaving your company, this knowledge is completely lost.
And it's like completely lost for an EI agent as well to kind of stick to these rules.
And I think having a good documentation policy where you have one central place,
where all the rules are, where everybody knows where to find them,
because that's the next thing, because people after everybody cooks their own things
and every team does their own documentation or building their own knowledge basis.
That's not the good way either.
I think having one central place where all these rules are stored is already a great start
for humans and for AI agents later on.
So then a couple of months ago when I started down the track of not only using AI,
but also trying to figure out how I can enable others.
As you may know, right, I'm typically trying to do some advocacy for engineers
on observability best practices.
I have a background in performance engineering.
So I try to tell people if you are a performance engineer
and you have your experience over 5, 10, 15, 20 years,
the best you can do right now is, as you said,
write this down in a way that not only benefits the next,
junior engineer that you're hiring
and getting on the team, but also the next
AI. So I've basically been advocating
for creating your
agent files, your
skills, your prompts,
depending, I guess,
I'm not up on the latest, maybe terminology,
but I think the idea
would be if I am good
in my job over the years,
I should make sure
to not only train the next human,
but also write it down in a way
that an AI can also benefit from my knowledge.
So my question to you now, am I here on the right track
by advocating to write everything in a big, large agent file
and then I'm done with it,
or is there still something that I need to take care?
I mean, I think it's a very good practice
to have it written down somewhere.
I think advocating for that is really good.
The point is if you have then huge gigantic context files
and you just pass it clawed and think
they will magically follow all those rules.
Sadly, this is kind of not the truth.
So I'm not sure if you've seen the recent hype on LinkedIn, Reddit,
or like I can use about the ETH-SURG paper on like basically you should delete those
context files because they are like making things worse.
In general, there is like a big problem with those transformer models and it's the
lost in the middle syndrome.
So those models are very good.
good in pick and choose. Like if you have a huge context that's full of information and you know
I need one single thing, this pick and choose works pretty well. Like they can find it. It's like
kind of the Neal and the Haystack test where those are models are really good at. The other part is
if you take a look at how models are like capable of retrieving parts of the information
based on the placement in the context. So if you would map basically the whole concept, the whole
window on like an X axis, where you have like the beginning and until the end, which is the user
prompt. Then models are really good in the beginning, like the first parts of the axis where
there is a system prompt in recalling that. And they're very good in recalling what was the last
addition to this context, like the user prompt. But they're very bad or like the more it
went into the middle, like the 50% middle, the more it drops on.
on having the capability of getting all of this information.
So I'm not wanting to say that big context sizes are bad per se,
because I think one million context size is great if you can dump like a whole code base in
and just say, give me an architectural overview.
So it just elevates basically the flight level.
But it's very like in the terms of following all your engineering rules,
I think it's the wrong thing to do, to be honest.
By the way, I'm not sure if you also have this on your website, but the PDF that you sent me,
is this something we can also share?
Yeah, the deck you can already share.
We use this just of, if we're talking to clients, to basically have some information there.
Yeah, because you also mentioned this here, exactly the U-shaped form, the ETH-Syric research,
that age, I like, obviously, you're doing a good.
great job in educating people.
There agents MD and Claude MD don't solve the real problem.
You have this big drop in accuracy depending on the size of the context of where information
in the context is stored.
So if I hear this correctly, Lucas, instead of me taking my 25 years of experience
and dumping it into a large agent file, I should rather think about breaking it up into
individual pieces and then making these individual pieces better findable searchable how does this work
how do i is there a good way for me or best practice way than how structural this i think there are
multiple evolutions of this like having it written down is already great because with this information
you can already go one step further and further than like i i think the the poor man's approach which
works in a lot of cases is breaking it down into skills and like simple solution.
We always say if there are not too many rules for smaller companies, you don't need
stray on for example.
You can easily achieve that with a skill because it's just like 10, 50, 20 rules or something
like that you can put that into a skill and the skill will be loaded based on a one line
description.
The point is this is like already a bit fragile because
for the audience, if you don't know how a skill works,
it's kind of basically a collection of markdown files,
that's kind of the context,
and then you have a description for this skill.
And this is a one, two-sentence paragraph,
and based on this paragraph,
which is always loaded in context,
it will decide if it uses or loads the other Markton files into context or not.
That said, if you have a lot of skills,
all those two-line descriptions will be always in your context on every prompt.
And if you've probably seen the latest cloth code leak, basically, where the source code was leaked,
this will be even like re-added after every prompt to enforce that it knows it ahead of the time.
So to actually fight against this lost in the middle syndrome.
So this is already a good approach for smaller things.
And for larger enterprises, that's why we build stray on.
because what we do is we dynamically can load the right rules at the right time.
So we have basically a matching algorithm, a pipeline, a machine learning pipeline,
that is capable of saying like, hey, that's my scratch pad on Claude or that's the task.
Out of 5,000 rules, what are now the five important rules for this one single task?
And by that you have like, you don't have to worry when to use which rules
and you don't have to load back-end rules
into a front-end task
or we can go even way deeper.
Like if you have a React front-end
or you have some other front-end rules,
we just know like,
hey, now just those three or five React rules are important.
So our bet is a bit contrary
to the whole industry
because we say
the smaller the context
or the sharper, the narrow,
the much more the models will follow your instructions.
Well, it also makes sense
If I pick an analogy, if I would have recipes for every dish in the world.
And if I have, let's say, recipe suggestions for every spice in the world,
then I could give all of these and create different skills,
maybe thousands of skills because there's thousands of spices.
But the problem is if I am here in Linz, Austria,
and I know I need to create a dish for some.
that has always eaten pork in his life and he doesn't eat anything else, then probably
I can get rid of 90% of the recipes for certain spices or ingredients that I don't even
need.
So basically the context would be who do I, who do I need to create something for that already
if I know what to then look at and also what to exclude.
I think that the part is also what to exclude and what to focus on.
So you basically saying a pre-selection of what is important.
on the test that is at hand.
And you are doing this
by continuously doing machine learning
on all of the skills
and all of the instruction files
that are out there.
And then when
instructions are needed,
when context is needed,
then you are dynamically creating
the right context for that problem.
Do I get this right?
Yeah, exactly.
So we had here a great partnership
with the University of Applying Science
in Hagenberg
with their AI lab.
We've developed together this algorithm, which is our proprietary software.
And that's our USB, to be honest, because competitors don't rely on this smart matching.
They more rely on, like, you have to place it in certain folders or directories.
But we just think engineers shouldn't worry or care about where those rules live.
And it should just work.
Cool.
got a question for you then
so I completely understand
if I go back what I learned today
I understand that the 10x
productivity gain promise
didn't doesn't work for most
organizations because
the context got so big
we're creating a lot of stuff
but the quality that we're creating
is not great because
the context is too big
also large enterprises may not have all
of the checks and balances in place
the good CIS and CDs that can
validate and see that this is actually not good good stuff now there's your approach where you say
you're dynamically generating the right context if i if i now think about this um how do i know
which context was used when i created certain code because maybe later on i need to kind of somehow
figure out how was this generated do you also then keep track of what you generate do you generate
do you generate it all the time for every prompt?
So can you give me some technical details on A, when you're creating this?
And also is the generated and provided context and also somehow persisted and stored in my session
so I can also go back in history and understand why certain things were created?
That's a really great point.
Actually, that's something we're currently working on, which is not released in the product yet.
Like our team is heavily working, it's called trajectory files.
That's kind of a new standard establishing which collects all the information about your session.
And we are currently in the progress on visualizing that and showing you exactly those traces
that you see exactly like, hey, in this session for this poor request or for this code change,
those rules were taking into consideration and those rules were not needed at all.
So that you, for us, we see this especially in the beginning where we have to get a
get trust for the quality of our system that we can really provide this trust in this form to the engineers.
Cool.
Yeah, for me it makes obviously a lot of sense because thinking with all of the organizations that I've worked with,
I think this would be one of the question that comes up.
Because if I have right now all of my instruction files, my agent files in my source code repo
and I basically know at which time I had which instructions.
It's easier for me to audit and to basically also show to the compliance department,
like what was the input.
But yeah, that's a cool, cool thing.
I really like, though, I mean, the great thing with what you have built here is there are clearly studies,
that show the technical, the reason the technical problem on why these agents are super fast,
but sometimes go off in the wrong direction.
and you have a very nice solution.
Now, technically, can you still explain to me,
when does your generation kick in?
At which point does it kick in?
So we said we want to keep it as simple as possible.
So all you have to do is have all the rules in Steyon
and the developer just installs a CLI
and the CLI is invoked via a skill.
On the setup, we just create the skill
and the skill is just a wrapper
that tells Claude,
cursor,
GitHub,
how to use the CLI.
So that's basically all.
So we are using a skill as well,
but a skill for instructing
how to work with the STRAN CLI.
And the STREANZLA has then different commands,
like get rules,
find rules,
etc.
And these commands are then used with,
basically in Claude,
you can tell Claude,
hey, let's work with,
let's work on
this issue and please follow all the rules. So it will pick up the strain skill and give it
everything which it has in the scratch pad. So Claude has like kind of some internal memory scratch
pad. And this will be passed by an API call to our backend. Our back end then runs our
pipeline passing in that in and giving you back like the five, ten rules that are now important
for planning this whole thing. And with this rules, it will start the plan. And then later on, it will
validate the plan with a different
hook where it then
gives like the finished plan or
the spec basically back on our back end
it will pass again
that are the rules that are needed
and the cool thing is
we don't do the validation
we don't do the judgment
we just do the matching
so your coding agent
your clawed instance with your own model
is doing that so this
works very well with bring your own
model like you don't have to pay
ask for token usage or whatever because it runs solely on your plans that you already have
in the companies on Claude or GitHub co-pilot or what works best for you.
And Claude is just getting the right context to accomplish a good result.
And that's it.
Like we don't do the validation.
Claude is doing that.
We just give Claude all the information it needs to get to the right result.
do you also keep track of
if it's possible
do you then keep track
of what type of context
that you pulled in
really made sense
and which context was never used
is this also not
that's exactly that what I
what I said with the trajectory
we do a self-improvement here
on like hey this was helpful
or this was not helpful
like think of reinforcing
learning for this.
That's cool.
And especially what we've seen so far in our benchmarks as well is like really,
it really is important how a rule is formulated.
You know, the articulation of a rule can heavily influence how good it is picked up
or is followed by like a coding agent.
And this is something a lot of people underestimate when they are just writing like those
files on their own because they think like, hey, I'm just writing it that and that way.
And often the results are very bad, depending on the language they choose, for following these rules.
And that's a huge thing we're focusing here on Stran as well to benchmark and validate what is like a really good way to express this for a machine readable format.
So what's the best way to pass all this information to the coding agent so that it really follows all those rules?
Now, you mentioned you have some benchmarks.
Do you have any numbers on what type of improvement people see with your approach?
Yeah, to be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of just putting out numbers
because you see that all over the place in the industry
that people just drop numbers and random numbers.
So we just open-sourced our benchmarks, therefore,
so that people can run it on their own repos.
Our approach to benchmarking is quite different than the industry does
with the SWE benchmark or others.
because they often focus on a very small problem that is single turn,
like just add a flag to this GOSI.
We think that's not the real world example.
So instead, what we did is we took like a huge repo outside that is open source.
In this case, like the Elastic Kibana or Argo CD,
that probably a lot of your audience is knowing.
And we just picked an open source contribution there.
There are issues and pull requests, and what we did is the issue is like our starting point for the agent.
Then we've extracted out of this repository like rules, like coding guidelines, convention, etc.
And we have three scenarios.
One without any additional context.
One with a handcrafted agents and defile that contains the exact same rules as we have in Strayon.
And one with all the rules in Strayon.
And then we checked out the commit.
before this pool request got merged.
So we have the perfect testing ground.
And then we ran the three scenarios.
And in the case of this ArgoCD or the Elastic Ibana,
we could get to 90% rule following with Strayon
and 5% with the agents MD.
But as I said, I don't like dropping here some random numbers.
So the best is people should just check out our blog post
and see their open source repo.
And they can set up the benchmark on their own to see it on their own code.
That's cool.
And I think you shared the blog post with me as well.
So, folks, if you're listening to this on the strayon.com website on the blog, there's a couple of cool blog posts that are discussing.
I think this one was this one that was written by Catherine.
Yeah, exactly.
March 26th, the 90% rule adherence.
Yeah, that's cool.
It's impressive.
and also great, obviously, that you do this on public projects,
so people can definitely follow what you do.
Hey, so you were founded in the end of 2024.
So now it's, let's say, 18 months into your journey,
and a lot of things have already changed.
Other things that are worrying you,
other things where you say,
well, this is as an industry,
Are there, is there anything that is worrying you?
Yeah, to be honest, I would be super afraid if I'm now like a student or graduate somewhere
and deciding for software development because how fast this job changed is crazy.
Like it feels like if you talk to people that love to actually code and write code themselves,
I think this will dramatically change in the next year
how this job is looked like, to be honest.
Yeah, I think, I don't say that this job will be replaced.
There will be software developers.
I think it just changes how it works this job.
And I think it will be way harder for juniors to get into this industry.
And I think that's kind of our responsibilities as companies
to find a way to integrate or look at.
learn juniors and help them to get them up because otherwise we will have a problem in 10 years or 15 years if there is no one coming after.
Yeah, I think we had this discussion, the same arguments also with our previous podcast guests,
that obviously we need to make sure that we're not forgetting about the next generation of software engineers or whatever we will call them.
I mean, in the end, it's just a new tool that has been given to us, but a tool that is also dramatically,
changing the way we do things.
I'm not sure if the analogy makes a lot of sense, but
before the automobile, we had a lot of people that were
riding horses and horse carriages and they had to figure out
how to get a horse from A to B and feed it and pauses
and everything, right? And then the automobile came that
dramatically changed everything. Now self-driving cars
are upon us, so that will also change a big industry, a big
time. And so we're seeing this change here as well.
but I mean if you take a look at an SRE
like you have great AI tools
I'm now capable to be like
if I get an incident
if I get a page I am capable
mostly in five minutes to find the root cause
through AI because I have an MCP server
that can analyze or grab the right data
the right errors in the right moment
I don't have to dig through some dashboards
or whatever I just give it like
a lot of observability data
and it will point
me to the right things in really no time.
And even with like Kubernetes read only access on clusters, this is amazing.
But you still have to know what to do here.
And it's like the AI, like I wouldn't give AI auto access currently to my cluster to fix
something.
So I think there is still a lot of human creativity needed here in this case.
And I think creativity in terms of architecture will be still a huge thing.
Yeah, especially, right, coming back to your own stats that you pointed out,
if I'm just using AI now in these cases where systems fail,
if I only have a 5% success rate in the AI following my rules right now,
if I'm not smart with how I define my rules,
then I may get the wrong answers and I may do the wrong things as an SRA.
So I think in the end, what I take away from all of this,
it's amazing how fast we can move.
We need to move into the right directions.
And for that, we need to make sure that the AI or the agents get the right rules at the right time
and are not overwhelmed with too many rules because they will pick the wrong rules in a very high percentage.
To be honest, if you try to argue with an AI, I had this where I was super convinced by the statements the AI was providing.
And I felt really, yeah, that makes total sense.
that makes total sense
and then I let the AI challenge itself.
And it convinced me then
from the different point of view.
So I think it can get very tricky
in finding the right arguments
and therefore it's really important
to have the right context in there.
Hey, and Lucas, to end on a positive note
because I asked you earlier,
what are you worrying about?
But maybe let's end it on a positive note.
What are you excited about?
I mean, I think we are in the greatest
area now. Like people can build their dreams. They don't need huge big agencies to build their
stuff. Like if someone wants something, they build it. And I think this accessing like this era of
builders, I would call it, that everybody is empowered to build what they have in mind will probably
boost our creativity because a lot of great ideas that were buried through missing potential skills
and software development are now enabled to build maybe great startups, companies and building
great products around that.
It is a really good future to look forward to.
And let's also hope we figure out how to then enable the next generation of engineers to leverage
the tools that bring their creativity into fruition.
That's really good.
Hey, Lucas, really all the best with Strayon.
Folks, if you're listening in, there's a lot of links of
obviously that we are going to post, whether it's on the website, the blog posts, also in the document.
We'll see how we share this document or if we share some of the links that you have in there.
I always say to people that start their own companies, I'm always impressed by anybody that makes the bold move to start your own company
because it's not an easy thing to give to the basic end your sales.
safe haven of a regular job.
So all the best for you and your adventure.
And I'm pretty sure we'll have you back at some point and see where Strayon is going,
where the agents are going.
I do hope you're moving fast and always into the right direction.
Cool words.
Thank you very much for having me.
Stay on track.
Exactly.
And Brian, next time I hope I'll have you back.
But I hope you are good with everything we discussed today.
See you next time.
Bye.
Bye.
