Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - 49ers analyst Kyle Madson talks about Kyle Shanahan's love for Kirk Cousins and how they landed on Trey Lance

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

Kyle Madson of 95.7 The Game and the Candlestick Chronicles podcast considers the time that Kyle Shanahan planned to make Kirk Cousins his quarterback, why the 49ers decided Jimmy Garoppolo wasn't good enough and what they think Trey Lance is going to do this year. Kyle dives into the timelines of Cousins and Garoppolo and why people similarly categorize the two quarterbacks. Plus he guesses the top receivers post-Terrell Owens in 49ers history and attempts a Vikings hot take.  -- For more of Matthew's Vikings coverage, head to purpleinsider.substack.com For bonus discussions, interview clips, and more videos, check out our YouTube channel! Interact with us on Twitter! @Purple_Insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, along with Kyle Madsen, who is a producer for 95.7 The Game in San Francisco. Also hosts the Candlestick Chronicles podcast. We are Blue Wire Brothers. We are on the Blue Wire Podcast Network. So it is great to have you, Kyle. What's going on man not not a lot trying to stay out of the heat as much as possible i live about an hour east of san francisco and we're in the 105 range over these next few days so staying inside a lot yeah that okay that's a good idea well we kind of had that a little bit earlier uh in the summer people don't understand that for about four to six weeks, it is absolutely insanely hot, intolerably hot in Minnesota. Everyone thinks it's just cold all the time. That's a stunner for me. I learned that right now. The Midwest, it's the Midwest. Minneapolis is not Canada, it's Midwest. So it's not that far away from Chicago. It's the same kind of deal. It's not, I mean, it's a little different than like St. Louis, but you still get that crazy humidity, insane heat. It just doesn't last that

long. So your 49ers who are here are probably thrilled because it was like 78 when they practiced today. So this was a very nice situation. We're going to talk a little bit about that, about the joint practices, but mostly leading up to this preseason game, I have some kind of things and hypotheticals that I want to run by you, which starts with actually the quarterback situation. So I got to look at Trey Lance today and no surprise, the man is very physically gifted. I don't know that he is a finished product or anywhere close to that. I don't think that anybody is saying that with the 49ers, but I couldn't help but think about how much Kyle Shanahan wanted Kirk cousins.

And so it's like Jimmy Garoppolo didn't make the trip because think how awkward that would be like the other quarterbacks out there. Your coach loves that guy and your coach loves that guy, but he doesn't love you despite the fact that they went to the super bowl and the nfc championship like what a strange situation for jimmy garoppolo to be in even though he was not in minnesota but kind of odd that like kirk cousins and trey lance couldn't be much different from each other one is small by quarterback standards and cannot run fast at all and the

other one is a physical freak it's it's remarkable to think about yeah i think the the the misnomer with cousins and shanahan and shanahan talked about this in the lead up to the draft because there were all the mac jones rumors right And whether they were substantiated or not, I don't know if we'll ever know, but there were the Mac Jones rumors and somebody referred to Kirk Cousins as Kyle Shanahan's ideal quarterback. And he kind of pushed back on that and was like,

that's not my archetype quarterback. I just think Kirk Cousins is a player that you can win with. The same way Jimmy Garoppolo is a player that you can win with the same way Jimmy Garoppolo is a player that you can win with and the difference is Trey Lance they're hoping again I agree with you maybe not right now and maybe not even next year but down the road he's a quarterback that like you will win with he is going to be in that Josh Allen this is their hope that he's in that Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes Aaron Rodgers Tom category, where it's like, man, that team has that quarterback. They're going to the playoffs.

And I don't think Jimmy is necessarily that. I don't think Kirk Cousins is necessarily that. But in 2018, when it looked like that, because in 2017, the 49ers had Brian Hoyer, and then they drafted C.J. Beathard. So their plan was to get through 2017. And then he was going to get Kirk Cousins in 2018 and build a roster around Kirk Cousins. So which I mean, when you see I'm a little bit of the mind that Kirk Cousins is better than Jimmy Garoppolo. There's a lot of people who are 49er fans that will push back on that.

But I think he's better. And I think the 49ers might actually have gotten over the hump had they had cousins with this team but that's a different conversation um then jimmy garoppolo became available for them late in 2017 and not only did they acquire him for a second round pick but he goes five and oh and his five starts and looked really good doing it and so it became okay there's the quarterback that they can win with now i don't think it was ever like kirk cousins or bust or like they begrudgingly made jimmy garoppolo the highest paid quarterback in the league or highest paid quarterback ever to that point um so i i think a lot of the cousin stuff gets a little bit overblown with kyle shanahan but that was definitely a thing like they they passed up deshaun watson and patrick mahomes in 2017 and Mitchell Trubisky if you want to go that

far because the plan was Kirk Cousins that offseason it's um it's really interesting though because with Cousins the Shanahan family like loves him specifically because they drafted him right I mean so in Washington and it took a lot of heat for it like why are you drafting this guy when you just drafted rg3 what are you doing and then he had to kind of fight to overcome that in washington and never exactly did because he didn't get them deep in the playoffs they didn't win a whole lot and also it seemed like still daniel snyder wanted rg3 to work out when it didn't he wasn't't going to stick with Kirk Cousins. It is funny, though, because I think if you ask like 100 Vikings fans

who's better, Garoppolo or Cousins, they'll say, well, Garoppolo's won a lot more. So probably him. And if you ask 49ers fans, they'll say, well, Cousins is more accurate and has better numbers, so it's probably him. And both fan bases have their reasons. I would lean toward jimmy g a little bit myself but the health issue is very serious like like garoppolo i think does some things that cousins doesn't and one of them is like have some leadership capabilities maybe a little more gutsiness to his game but then if you're if you have a guy that, you know, misses whatever,

like two seasons, basically in a row, and then plays yet or last year, almost completely hurt. And then has a cap hit of $27 million for this year. Like that doesn't add up very well, even if you like them and with cousins, like there's the physical limitations that exist, does not have the biggest arm, doesn't have the speed or anything like that. But I could see where a Kyle Shanahan would be like, if I just push those right buttons. And I think Kyle Shanahan, as every reason to believe in himself, when it comes to this, based on his past history, like he's one of these guys, there are very few of them, but he's one of these guys who just elevates everybody around him. The only problem with

the whole theory, though, is that Cousins has also had a lot of those guys in his career. Sean McVay, Kevin Stefanski, Gary Kubiak. So I do think about a lot as San Francisco is here, like this could have been Kirk coming to town to have this practice. Yeah, and I would be fascinated to know the timeline or what it looks like if the Niners had signed Cousins in 18 instead of Garoppolo because I think their record's probably better I mean you talked about

his the durability has been better they're probably not drafting high enough in the draft to pick a quarterback so it would be really interesting to see how that goes I was all I was on board with Cousins being better than Garoppolo I I was just like, that's just a thing. If you replace Garoppolo with Cousins, the Niners are going to be better. But then I watched Cousins at Levi's Stadium last year. And the Niners' defense is good. Like, don't get me wrong. But there were just three or four plays in that game.

And I'm up in the press box, so you get the all-22 view. And there were three or four plays in that game where you'm up in the press box so you get the all 22 view and there were three or four plays in that game where you had receivers like giving up on routes before the throw got there because it like there's one where justin jefferson's wide open and he's standing there he's got his hands up and then he drops his hands and he slumps his shoulders as the throw like skips into him in the end zone and it's just they're they're i'm a numbers guy. I like being able to have empirical data to prove things and not just like vibes. But just the vibe with Kirk Cousins is so much different than it is with Garoppolo,

where Garoppolo can make five of those throws and his teammates are like, hey, he's going to get the next one. And oftentimes he did, and that's why they'd wind up winning these games. They had no business winning with him at quarterback. So it's a fascinating sliding doors moment in NFL history that Garoppolo trade. And then one,

then what ended up happening with cousins? Why did the Vikings, I'm going to ask you a question because this was baffling to out here because the Niners were like, Hey, they hit a ceiling with Garoppolo, bring in trail lands, go the opposite direction,

like big, fast, big arm, little inaccurate, we'll figure it out. Meanwhile, the Vikings are paying Kirk Cousins more money to continue being their quarterback? Why? Here's something I ran across, though. I wrote a little column about, remember those Kirk to San Francisco rumors?

But I wasn't referring to 2018. There were rumors in 2020 that San Francisco would be interested in chasing Cousins if the Vikings didn't extend him. And because he won the playoff game in New Orleans, they decided to extend him and try to run it back. But the problem is the roster fell apart. And I mean, as it does, like you you run into this no matter who you are like even uh even eventually the bill walsh dynasty comes apart when the players get old right this

is one of bill belichick's long hacks is anybody who started to look old you just threw him in the dumpster and got somebody else the vikings did not do that they signed all of their older players to big extensions they kind of had a super top heavy roster. And when a lot of those players left, they had no replacements. They didn't hit on draft picks. They didn't develop players particularly well, or didn't find the randomness in that, like UDFAs who become great or late round draft picks or whatever it might be.

And yet they didn't want to kind of admit failure with Cousins. So they just said like well let's just let's just bring it back let's try to patchwork this defense together and make it work and then when it didn't for the last two years then it was well you know mike zimmer created to talk about vibes created some pretty bad vibes around here and and the veteran players were like yeah it was the vibes not me and then so they said again but also another part of this too is that they didn't have a trey lance to draft if there was a trey lance to draft in this draft i can almost guarantee you that the vikings would have someone else a quarterback and not kirk cousins but like the rest of the league and even kenny pick it's

pretty questionable as a first round pick like what is that what is that going to be like a paxton lynch thing i don't know i mean maybe not but it's just not an impressive it's not a trey lance it's not somebody that you're talking about like best case scenario kenny pickett is jimmy garoppolo absolute best case sure so instead of taking best case scenario jimmyoppolo, they were just like, this is our only option. We might as well try to win. So that's kind of how it ends up happening is they were always trying to justify signing him. So even though all of the things were in the cards to not extend him the first time in 2020, they did anyway, because they didn't want to throw up the white flag on that. And the GM was already on the hot seat. So you can't be like, yeah, that huge quarterback signing we made. Whoops. Didn't work out. Hate to see it. Especially

after a playoff win to then be like, oh no, that was the peak folks. But if you were doing it with complete job security, I even wrote an article about it. If you were doing with a G with complete job security, they would have moved on at that moment, just totally rebuilt. And they have refused over the years to rebuild. And thus we still have Kirk Cousins as the quarterback. How's Kellen Mond look? We still have Kirk Cousins as the quarterback and no one else. There was a contingent of, I don't want to say contingent, a faction.

Faction's the word I'm looking for. There's a faction. I know what you're saying action of 49ers fan that was like what if they traded up to three to draft kyle pitts and then they'll draft kellen mond in the second round and i'm like or they could not do that yeah i was out i've been i was out on kellen mond from the jump i didn't think he was very good well and part of that was that there were like draft twitter people who were pushing the kellen mon thing it's kind of wild it was like i don't really get it and neither did the league like i just don't really see it i mean when a guy has like four years starting and never shows any high end like well this is kind of it but the thing that's funny about this is when they drafted

kellen mon rick spielman compared him Teddy Bridgewater, who's everyone's favorite son here and was Mike Zimmer's like favorite player of all time and everything else. And so it was like, Hmm, let's see. They're saying he's more mobile. Kirk isn't more physically gifted. He's kind of got leadership. Like Teddy Bridgewater is like, wink, wink. Are you guys taking shots at Kirk or what? So it's always been this very weird relationship because they've continued to go back to Kirk, but also consistently showed that they weren't signed into him for long term, a one-year extension this time, and have never really fully supported him.

The coach absolutely didn't. It's one of the reasons he's not here. And they never gave him anything longer than a couple years. So it has been the downright kind of bizarre. And then even then, like they haven't, they signed no one this year on offense. They decided not to draft Jamison Williams.

It was like, they never went out and even got that extra player in free agency. It was like always rebuilding the defense. The whole thing is kind of odd. It's fascinating. It really has his career just like earnings like his contracts are incredible oh i mean his his agents i've called him god he has call a famer yeah yeah he's got agent on the show so okay so here's a question though

because i think what people want from kevin o'connell is to be like, you know, like Shanahan was to Jimmy. So you're the offensive genius. You come from McMay, they dial stuff up and go to the Superbowl or something. What is it about Shanahan as someone who watches him all the time, the whole career there in San Francisco? Like, what is it about him that allows those offenses to be as effective as they are that possibly O'Connell can take away and use on Kirk the biggest thing that Kyle Shanahan does well you have to have good players and I think the Vikings do in fact I I don't think it's a stretch to say that the Vikings three of Jefferson Thielen and Cook and if you want to throw Madison in there, you can. It's better than Ayuk, Samuel, and Mitchell

if you're just doing two wide receivers and a running back. I don't think that's crazy of a stretch. So the thing that Kyle Shanahan does is everything is multiple. He can run the same formation or the same personnel grouping. A lot of 21. It's a lot of two running backs, one tight end, but Kyle use check.

The fullback can play fullback. He can play inline tight end. He can split out wide. He can play from the slot. You have George Kittle who can line up in line, who can line up in the slot. In an ideal world, the running back would be able to do the same that's

why they paid jerek mckinnon all that money and that didn't work out because of his knee injury but that's that's the ideal they can they can run 21 personnel and run six different formations out of it and run the same play out of those six different formations and then go back to it but run something completely different it's just it's matchup It's, it's locating a linebacker or two linebackers. They can't move or can't cover getting those guys in space against Debo Samuel and Brandon. I, you can George Kittle and going to work.

And that's, that's where you get Jimmy Garoppolo being 29th and a dot and first in yards per attempt, you know, like his depth of target is not great, but it's a talented players like debo sam is just an immensely talented player but he also gets a lot of room where he's just by himself a lot of george kiddo routes where he's just by himself with with all kinds of space so

that's that's the big thing is is figuring out ways to manipulate defenses with personnel outside of just like play action. Like play action is one thing, but you have to be able to go play action in a way that's going to give Justin Jefferson, and I know teams aren't just letting Justin Jefferson run wide open, but getting Justin Jefferson in advantageous spots or linebackers on him or safeties on him. That's the big thing that Kyle Shanahan does I think better than anyone is he gets those numbers advantages in the run game where it's it's six blocking five and that's why I think Trey Lance can can really work out because

it makes it easier to gain those advantages and then and then like I said isolating a couple players on defense and creating mismatches with them. And I think the Vikings have the personnel to do it. I don't know what... I'm admittedly not up on the Vikings tight end depth chart, but that's the big... That's the key cog is George Kittle and just his ability to, A, run block like crazy

and be one of the best run blocking tight ends in the league while also being one of the most effective pass catching tight ends in the league. Like he had a down year last year and a 910 yards in a career. I had six touchdowns. So it's something, it has a lot to do with personnel, but I,

I, I think utilizing, utilizing that personnel is key. That's not what I was trying to say. Figuring out how to best utilize that personnel against whatever the defense is doing is what Kyle Shanahan is really good at that I'm not sure other people are able to really replicate.

Yeah, and everyone always says the same stuff like we're trying to make the run look like the pass and we are you know trying to get playmakers in space and like none of this stuff is new i mean like kevin o'connell is coming in and i don't blame him for this he didn't listen to press conferences of gary kubiak or clint kubiak or kevin stefanski saying a lot of the same stuff. And like, and, and I mean, Gary is like, uh, that's, that's that whole tree with Shanahan and Shanahan worked for Gary back in the day. And so these guys, they're doing a lot of the same stuff. And what I always think that one of the, one of the coaches for the Vikings, Pat Shermer, who's sort of the same like West Coast and that kind of thing,

he used to say like it's the players and not the plays. And I think it's like some of the plays. But George Kittle and Debo Samuel are absolutely special. And Irv Smith Jr. has just not been healthy enough to really prove that he can be. I think that there's potential there, but he's not George Kittle. It's not going to be able to block like him. He's not as powerful of a runner after the catch as him. I don't think he's as fast or as strong as him. Like that's a, that's a big difference. But you know, can you get Justin Jefferson in enough space to make big plays? Of course you

can. The other coaches did too. The guy's had one of the best starts to his career, but where, where's the edge, I guess, is what I'm thinking about with this Vikings offense. It's like, where can you get the edge of what the guys did before you? And I'm not sure that we know the answer yet, but I think it is probably just being a little sharper when it comes to some of the things you're talking about. One of the things, this is what I was trying to articulate earlier. And I couldn't figure out how to do it. Nick Wagner at ESPN, he covers a 49ers for espn wrote a really really good piece about shanahan's upbringing as a as a as a coach and how he started on that john gruden buccaneer staff and he would just go sit in

defensive meeting rooms and his understanding of defensive rules and principles and being able to manipulate those to, to get, get a linebacker where he, he knows that that linebacker is going to go to this spot and then fill that gap that the linebacker leaves. Like it's just an understanding of football that I, I think requires like that upbringing. Like in,

in 2004, he was there in defensive meeting rooms just learning everything he could about defensive football before he was ever even an offensive position coach he's quality control with Tampa Bay so that's that's one of the big one of the big things I think that goes overlooked a little bit with Shanahan is just his ability to manipulate defenses based on what he knows the defense wants to do on a particular player a particular action and and he takes advantage of that pretty regularly one of the ones one of the games that stands out to me and it was my like huzzah moment with Kyle Shanahan is week seven I think of the 2019 season they played carolina at levi stadium and luke keekly looked

like he'd never played football and he was he was spinning and it was and luke keekly is an incredible linebacker like defensive player your caliber linebacker just looked like he had no idea and that was when it was like oh i get like i get why this works now. And that's, that's, he's adaptable to his personnel. And, and he has a personnel now where it's power running game and then, and then throwing off of that. Yeah. That's so interesting because I had the same sort of feeling about, I mean, you know, you saw it with Atlanta, but Matt Ryan is also at that time, a great quarterback still before he totally fell off the side of a cliff and i'm not convinced will be great again uh but you know so you're like okay it's shanahan but he's also got this like borderline hall of fame quarterback okay you know he's taking him to another level but still

like that's that quarterback 2018 the opener vikings and 49ers the same thing you just described happened to eric kendricks and i had the same thought where I was like, this never happens to Eric Hendricks. He is one of the absolute best. But then Jimmy Garoppolo missed a wide open George Kittle in the end zone. It was like, well, that's why that's not going to work. But there is another part of this though. And this is going to be the very interesting thing between O'Connell and cousins is that Jimmy would throw it like Jimmy, even with the first read, he would just be like, I don't know, the guy didn't get open, but screw it. And I'm going to throw it to him anyway. And it would actually work out kind of a lot. Sometimes not, but cousins is not like that. And what we've seen already in camp, the only issue

the offense is having is where cousins has thrown a lot of picks because i think he's having trouble adapting to like kevin o'connell wanting him to throw it anyway like even if it's not quite there he wants to kind of go to the check down or go to whatever and o'connell's like no you got to be matt stafford you got to gun it in there you got to be jimmy g like isn't matt stafford just like a more gifted j G like you gotta, you gotta be that, but that's not Kirk though. But that's like, it's like the wrong comparison.

Like Jimmy G and Kirk are middling quarterbacks. So they rank 14th and 15th, but that doesn't mean that they're the same guy. Sure. Yeah. That's, and that's, I guess they,

they counteract each other a little bit. Like Jimmy is probably a little bit too recklessimmy is probably a little bit too reckless and kirk is probably a little too conservative um and i think i think that's the that's what made and broke jimmy is man you go watch week 18 against the rams last year and it is it is spectacular he brings him back and he has this fourth quarter drive at the end of the game. He was incredible. And you go watch their overtime against the Bengals. He was remarkable in that.

But then you go watch, got a lot of examples last year, the Titans game. He's just missing open guys. And he has Kyle Jyle you check wide open down the sideline and air mails him for for what should have been a touchdown and it's like man the the the urgency that he played with it was like slow down sometimes man like you don't you don't have to uncork every throw like right away just um but on the other hand i i'm guessing like you said the vikings

would rather kirk cousins be that way whereas niner fans sometimes like dang jim like the linebacker was right there the whole time the line the interception he threw in the in the divisional round against the vikings a couple years ago kendrick's just dropping into a spot and jimmy throwing it into his chest like the the throw was never there. Don't, don't let that rip man. Yep. And in that same game, I remember, and it may have been like a little bit tipped the pass, but there was this absolutely absurd throw that he never should have made. That turned out to be a huge big time throw on a third down where I was like

right above it in the press box. And it's a great view in that press box. Also elite food, by the way, and very good food selection, the best, the best I've had. But no one cares about that. So, but like, you could see, you could see the receiver coming across the field and you're like, there's a lot of Vikings there and he just lets it loose. And you're watching the ball going, is this going to get picked off for like pick six? And it just barely makes it in there for a huge first down even if it was like a little tipped or whatever the guy makes a catch like sometimes you just got to do that but i've described jimmy and kirk this way and this is what makes them similar in my mind you can tell me if

you agree is that if you go on the road to cover a game and you're in your hotel and say it's hot out so you want to turn on the ac in a hotel you can never get at the right temperature like whatever it says on the thing it's like 74 then you're like oh i'm so hot like 73 i'm freezing what is happening like that's those two quarterbacks where you're like kirk why don't you just throw it oh no like yeah no no strip sack like no but then you're like you know so so you end up with and even statistically they're sort of on weird ends of the spectrum too where cousins has this crazy high completion percentage but he doesn't take the risks and then jimmy has too many picks but he takes the risks that succeed and it's like how do you ever get this quite right? And you could see where, and this is where San Francisco and Minnesota,

oh, I just hit my mic, sorry. They go to opposite directions. So if you're hearing this, I'm pointing one arm in one way and another in another. Okay, so they go in opposite directions as San Francisco said, we ain't paying for that. And the Vikings said, run it back. And that's the difference. And I think if it doesn't work this year,

the Vikings should be very jealous of a team that said we're not we're not paying for that yeah and i think the niners just kind of looked at this is not a kyle mads an original thought but i i completely agree with it the turning point for shanahan and the 49ers was 2020 when they played the bills i think it might have been on monday night football maybe sunday night doesn't matter i remember the game they played the bills and it was in arizona because of covid and santa clara county had shut down and no contact sports so they had to play in arizona and josh allen turned that into a seven on seven passing league and the niners just had no answers.

And even though Nick Bosa was hurt, and I just thought a pretty good defense and it just didn't matter because Josh Allen was too good. And Patrick Mahomes, of course, flipping the switch in the super bowl against what was arguably the best defense in the league that year, just kind of turned it on at the end.

Like, Hey, that quarterback is going to make two or three plays in this game that are going to, that are going to hurt. So I think those were the kind of two, two turning points. And I think,

I think that's a great analogy, the hotel air conditioning, because Jimmy's going to give you, and I think cousins the same way, because I have a host at the radio station I work at who knows that cousins just kind of gets under Niner fan skin a little bit and so he's just decided he's a huge Kirk Cousins guy and so every time Cousins has a good game he's like that's a Super Bowl caliber quarterback and it's like yeah but half the games

he's not and that's Garoppolo half the game maybe not even half the games it's like half the quarters because him it's a quarter by quarter basis man it's like half the quarters because him on a quarter-by-quarter basis, man. It's like half the quarters, he is awesome, and it's like, wow, this offense is unstoppable. And then half the quarters, it's like, they might want to put in Nick Mullins. That's kind of where it got. And you're right.

In the modern NFL, you can't... I don't think you can continue paying for that and expect to win on a consistent basis. The Niners had an excellent defense in 2019, and like I said, push come to shove, it didn't matter because their quarterback couldn't make a play. Last year, they had a very good defense, playing at a high level, going into LA,

fourth quarter lead. Didn't matter. Matthew Stafford made plays. Garoppolo had two shots. The Rams tied it at 17. Garoppolo comes out, they go three and out and Rams go ahead and Garoppolo comes in and they throw a pick and it's game over. You think he went one for six for negative six yards on the last two drives. And if you can't put the ball in your quarterback's hands at the end of a game like why are you paying them that's that's that's the whole point i mean it's sort of like um both of them are better than carson wentz but carson wentz on a rookie contract with a team that's built up around him. And always like everything in the NFL with timelines and quarterback situations always circles back to this

point. Exactly. It's like the Browns and their Deshaun Watson thing is questionable on a lot of different levels, but it's not questionable on the idea that if you are choosing between which quarterback to pay one in Deshaun Watson that has a chance to be elite year in and year out, assuming that he just goes back to being the normal Deshaun Watson, that's a quarterback you pay versus Baker Mayfield, who is like right in the same party with Kirk Cousins and Jimmy Garoppolo, Spider-Man memeing each other. Like, oh yeah, yeah, we're all the same same it's like baker mayfield can win a lot of games on a rookie contract with a really stacked team and then the thing with cousins is that

he hasn't just always been paid he's always been elitely paid like this year he's got the third highest cap hit like at any point yeah wild at any point since he signed the first franchise tag he has been one of the most expensive quarterbacks in the league they haven't even been able to do one of those mega extensions where you're like that's weird tom brady's making 12 dollars this year but 45 million in cash how does that like how does he count for 1 million on the cap like they've never really been a position to do that in part because they've paid a lot of other people too um so now here's my question for you then with lance one of the reasons that i love it that they went for it um and a lot of people wanted them to go with fields i don't ever pretend to have any idea who's gonna succeed for quarterbacks you know watch the college guys and watch qb school i'm sure everybody

watched that on youtube and watch jto sull Sullivan talk about 49ers legend. I don't. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I don't take, I don't take my guesses. My guess is this. It's always good to draft a quarterback high because you never know. You never know that Josh Allen's going to be what he's going to be or Patrick Mahomes versus Trubisky who's drafted higher or Lamar Jackson or

like got, you know, all sorts of guys who were drafted way later than elite quarterback or, or, or bust quarterbacks to top and the later guys become elite, who knows. But I love it from the perspective of getting a physical freak, trying to mold him like clay during his rookie quarterback contract, and then try to hit that moment in his second or third year where you just get your shot. Because most of the time, most of the time most of the time even with great teams it's like one or two shots even like think about Wilson like two shots at it you probably get one or two shots a decade even with great teams unless you have Mahomes so you got to take

advantage of it and I feel like they this year want to show that that's there and then the next year they kind of become like the Bills with Josh. If he hits, I just like that strategy, even if it's a little risky. Yeah. You got to do something at some point. I think they knew they hit a ceiling with, with Garoppolo and, and they were in a really unique position because they had Garoppolo get hurt in 2020 and And they went... What did they go that year? 6-10? 5-11? I forget exactly what they went.

But they were picking 12. So they were a team a year removed from the Super Bowl. With the assets to trade up to number 3 in the draft. With largely the same kind of core. It was still Bosa, Kittle, Warner, Samuel. And so they trade up to number three in the draft and had the advantage of not needing to start that quarterback right away. It wasn't a Zach Wilson, Trevor Lawrence situation

where that quarterback had to play. So they could take a raw quarterback with a big skill set, knowing that he was going to marinate in 2021. Like there was never, Jimmy Garoppolo is never going to not start last year. And then he gets a full season. He gets scout team reps. He gets two starts. He played a half against the Seahawks when Garoppolo got hurt.

So he got 10 NFL quarters. And then he gets a full offseason. Like you're going to work on these things. Here's the playbook. Know this. He worked out with Brandon at U-Call offseason. And you're right. Like, they now have him on his rookie contract

with a roster where, you know, we hear all the time about how the Rams roster is loaded, and it is. But the 49ers are paying George Kittle. These are all guys who are top three of their position it's george kittle it's uh trent williams it's debo samuel debo is not top three but but he's he's highly paid um it's fred warner um they have they are they are a very very good team and they have some other really good pieces around they paid for various ward the the cornerback and they're able to do this because they do have lance on

that rookie deal and i think you you hit the nail on the head it's less about this year even though lance may struggle out of the gate a little bit but i i i really think that if he improves the way he did between week 5 and 17 last year by getting more reps i don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that by week 11 or 12 it's kind of like they're like oh shoot like this is what they want it to be like he is figuring it out and so they might go eight and nine or seven and ten this year but they win their last three games and lance looks awesome and it's you know sky's the limit in 23. And if I'm betting, that's kind of how I think the season's going to go a little bit.

But yeah, I mean, we've seen Shannon make it work before with Robert Griffin III on a team that wasn't as good as the 49ers are. So I'm fascinated to see it, but I'm with you. They had to take a shot because running a basket back with Garoppolo was not going to bear the fruit. I think that they needed it to. Okay. I have two more things for you. One of them, what I've been asking all my guests,

because it's been such a quiet off season for the Vikings, is the hot, the Vikings hot take challenge. I'm going to ask you that in a second, just a second, but I'm going to give you a hot take. I think San Francisco can win 11 because I think that that second year, even for a raw quarterback, especially a running quarterback that we almost don't appreciate the addition of scrambling and what that does for winning. And like we saw it with Jalen hurts who threw the ball. Okay. But not well, and yet script and he's not as good of a scrambler as Trey Lance's. I don't think at least, um, yeah, at least ballpark. I mean, he's good.

He's good. He's a good scrambler, but, uh, Lance can do more with his arm for sure. I think, I think that that, I think it's going to go well for that. I mean, I look at this team watching them practice. I see a ton of talent, a team that was in the NFC championship last year and adds a more dynamic quarterback. That's kind of, that's maybe 11 is not even a hot take. Why don't I even go 12? I'll go 12. I think San Francisco is going to have a great year. And, and part of the reason is because the NFC is just not that impressive. So you go, eh, you know, I'm not, I don't think Arizona will be that great. Um, you know, there's, there's, I think that the Rams will have some slip in their game. So I think that I think San Francisco has a good chance to be very good. That's my 49ers hot take. The challenge is

simply, can you come up with a Vikings hot take? Like what is the Vikings hot take since no one has passed so far? The most we got was maybe like a six out of 10. God, I'm going to be totally honest. I don't, because of Kirk cousins, I don't think about the Vikings that much. Um, I just, I think they kind of are what they are like um let's see if i that i could give you a hot take but i wouldn't be able to like support it you have to kind of believe you know yeah yeah um yeah like i don't think i have one for you i would have i would have done some digging and tried to and tried to think of one but off the top of my head i know this is not good podcast material but i don't

really have one and it's because of kirk cousins all have failed uh eric edholm of nfl.com was on and he was like okay i got one i think the vikings will be really good this year and 30 seconds later he's like maybe nine and eight it one. I think the Vikings will be really good this year. And 30 seconds later, he's like, maybe nine and eight. It's like, well, that's not really good then. It's like, wait a minute. Because he went like, if this goes right, but then they probably don't have that. You still have Kirk and maybe this.

And then it's like, they could go nine and eight. Like that's, nope, you failed. And Mike Renner said the edge rushers will be good if they're healthy. It's like, well, yeah, they should be. Yeah. We had a guy call into our radio station last year, and he's like, it's just a random sports talk radio caller. And he goes, he goes,

I think they'll win between seven and 10 games this year. Bold. Thanks. Wow. Crushed it. Every crushed it every team every time between seven and ten seven and ten dubs they'll either miss the playoffs or make it now yes now you have a similar job to yours in sports talk radio uh there were some hot takes there that those people would pass the hot take challenge particularly when it has to do with backup quarterbacks then uh then we we do pretty well there's 60 60s too high for 31.6 percent of 49er fans almost a

third want jimmy garoppolo to stay as the backup quarterback that's what i mean the what the talk radio caller they do not fail the hot take challenge. No, they don't. Okay. So here, speaking of challenges, one more for you.

So I was doing a little 49ers research and, um, the 49ers have two of my favorite players of all time, Jerry Rice and Terrell Owens. Wow. And, uh, since Terrell Owens left in 2003,

I want you to name as many players as you can in the top 10 in receiving since Terrell Owens left for the San Francisco 49ers. So 2003 was his final year in San Francisco. 2004 to present the top 10 49ers in receptions. In reception, single season or total? Totalers in receptions. In receptions, single season or total? Total, total receptions. Okay, this is going to be fun. I love stuff like this. Okay, so 04 to 21, Anquan Bolden's got to be in there.

Anquan Bolden is fifth, correct. Okay, so Anquan's five. Did, let's see, who is around? Is George Kittle on the list yet? George Kittle is fourth, which shows you what this list is made of. George Kittle is already fourth. Okay. Did Michael Crabtree make it on?

Michael Crabtree is number two with 347 catches with 347 okay so i'm digging deep right now into those uh vernon davis vernon davis got to be number one far and away number one with 441 from 2006 to 2015 a long time 49. So you've got three of the top four in reception. Vernon Davis, Michael Crabtree, Anquan Bolton's in there, George Kittle. Who's number three? I'm going to give you a hint here. I'm going to give you a hint.

Not all of the 10 are wide receivers or tight ends. Yeah, no, that's what I was wondering. Like Frank Gore was there for most of the time. Is Frank Gore on the list? Frank Gore is number three. Wow. With 342. Okay. This is going to be fun. Okay. Now we're on here's where we got the top five. It's pretty hot. Um, let's see. I know I'm missing like a, like a super obvious one. You are missing a current super obvious one. Yes. Is it, did, is Debo in the top 10 already?

Debo is in the top 10. He's seven. Oh my God. Debo's seven. This is why I love this. But somebody, so you don't have number six and you have to, you have to go back a little ways, go back a little ways to maybe think you and I are similar age. So try like,

uh, if you maybe around your college years or something like that. Around my college years. I mean, this name came up and I went, you've got to be kidding me with this guy being in the top. So we're like, were you an 08 high school grad?

Uh, I was 04. So we're so we're like were you an 08 high school grad uh i was 04 so we're like ballpark okay so college here so this is so this has got to be like early so i'm like man um it's a wide receiver i'm guessing yeah is it a wide receiver it is yep this guy had uh 178 catches between 04 and 09 oh my god 04 to 09 who is a wide receiver who's with the team that long i'm not even sure vikings fans will have heard of this guy no it's is brandon lloyd on the list it is not brandon lloyd no it is not he's not in the top 10, though. He's 15. Oh, boo. I'm going to have to tell you this one.

This is Arnaz Battle. Oh, dude. Brutal. Dang. Yeah, Arnaz Battle was the man for sure. Is Eric Johnson in there? Eric Johnson. Also a great guitar player named Ericic johnson is uh 13th

antonio bryant antonio bryant is also not there and i'm not even sure where he is on the list i think he's only with the team for one or two years you have a guy who recently left a guy who recently left this is is going to make you laugh too. This is, this list is so wonderful. Brandon is 12th by the way. Like this shows you like how this, yeah,

this shows you like where this list is at. Um, I may just have to give it to you. Uh, but you have Carlos Hyde. Uh, no, that's a good guess though.

He's 14th. You have Kendrick born. And that's Kyle use check. And I'll give you a one shot at the other one. Oh, eight to 2011 had his moment. Oh, eight to 11. So he was on the team when they went to the NFC championship and it wasn't Michael Cratchery. Isn't Mario Manningham? No, it was. No, it's not.

Josh Morgan. Josh. Oh, Josh Morgan. Wow. I didn't realize he was an 08 draft pick. Dang. Some other great names. I have a I have a Josh Morgan take.

You're welcome. Good thing this is 44 minutes in. Yeah. Josh Morgan take. He broke his leg in a 44-3 win, I think, over the Buccaneers in 2011. And it was Colin Kaepernick had come in for mop-up duty. And Josh Gordon broke his leg. And that's the reason I think the 49ers didn't win the Super Bowl that year. Because they just didn't have another wide receiver to replace it not randy moss yeah not like a good version of randy moss dude i'm not

just some other names to take you down uh memory lane here you have delaney walker what a blocker delaney delaney delaney's career delaney walker underrated awesome career uh he has like two halves he's very good blocker for the 49ers and then went on to have like a pro bowl caliber uh receiving career with the uh with the titans shout out that's right so he was 11th you have a Marquise Goodwin mixed in here the fastest man I have ever seen in my life Marquise goodwin uh you have garrett selick isaac bruce that's isaac bruce is in the top 20 on this list with another bruce a fullback bruce miller bruce miller yeah uh got arrested for beating the crap out of an old dude at uh fisherman's wharf yeah not good yeah converted defensive end that's not that's not how a fullback should handle

himself no uh but what a list it is since uh that's amazing that was that was great arnaz battles is an incredible pull he was really the reason i wanted to do it so uh by the way you you should file follow kyle on twitter uh at kyle a madsen and uh like um mark madsen not quite no not quite uh ryan madsen oh the picture looking for an athlete yeah the only mob player to ever have my last name and he played for my favorite team the oakland ace oh i used to find so there was a lou collier so i would play video games with lou collier even though he's a horrible utility backup infielder, just because the announcer would be like up to the plate Collier. And I'd be like,

close enough. That's actually what I thought your last name was until you reached out about this podcast. And I realized that that is not your last name. It's a very common mistake. I don't know why it's not to tell you the truth. I've never looked into it. So that's where we'll end. But this was terrific, Kyle. I really enjoyed this.

Candlestick Chronicles is the podcast. If you are interested in 49ers takes about Arnaz battle and so forth, and very happy to have you on the show, though, this was fun. I would say of all the preseason preview podcasts ever done, this is one of the best, if not the best. Wow. That's that's big time. I appreciate that a lot. I like to leave a guest with a compliment. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Kyle. Thanks everybody for listening. We'll catch you next time.