Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A not emergency podcast breaking down the Vikings trade for Nick Mullens

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

Matthew Coller analyzes the Vikings' decision to send a conditional seventh-round pick for former 49er, Brown and Raider Nick Mullens. Is he the guy who could give the Vikings a chance if Kirk Cousins gets hurt? What do the numbers say about Mullens? Why didn't they make this move earlier? Plus fan questions regarding the Cousins-Zimmer relationship, the rookie class and who you'd protect in an expansion draft. -- For more of Matthew's Vikings coverage, head to purpleinsider.substack.com For bonus discussions, interview clips, and more videos, check out our YouTube channel! Interact with us on Twitter! @Purple_Insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to a in no way, shape or form emergency podcast in which we will briefly react to the Vikings trading a conditional seventh round pick for Nick Mullins because I am not dedicating my life to a seventh round conditional pick traded for Nick Mullins. I can't do it. I can't take it. I don't have the energy, folks, to discuss this at any sort of serious length. Hi, everybody. Look, the Minnesota Vikings, if you didn't hear when I was just yelling, have a backup quarterback now. And what I originally planned to do is to bring you what Kevin O'Connell said about the backup quarterback they just traded for

and what he said about Sean Mannion and Kellen Mond. But after being there today and listening to O'Connell's press conference, there's a thing on this show where I try to bring you guys facts, truth, information, and insight. And that press conference from Kevin O'Connell had none of those things. Uh, he said, it's still a competition. It most certainly is not. Uh, he said that, you know, he was happy with both Sean Mannion and Kellen Mond that cannot remotely be the case, or you wouldn't trade for a proven quarterback or a proven backup quarterback. And, you know, did not talk about which one of the two quarterbacks he was more unhappy with, even though I think it was clear from the practice reps where Mannion was still getting more reps than Kellen Mond. If you believed that there was something there with Mond, then you would have given him more practice reps today.

And that's not what happened. So there's your total insight from the press conferences that there was none. Uh, so let's get into exactly, uh, the nuts and bolts of this thing. And then we can move on with our lives to a lot of good fan questions. And I'm sorry if you asked a backup quarterback question, you didn't get it under the bar. And I felt bad too. There was another person that asked a full back question about Jake Bargus and whether they should cut their backup fullback, but then they cut them just before I could answer the question. So these things will happen to us sometimes when it comes to fans only. So I'm not ignoring your question, but it's sort of no longer makes sense. Uh, when it comes to the backup quarterback situation, the way that I would phrase this with Nick Mullins is that he is exactly the best thing

that you can get when you're in this situation, when you have put yourself in the situation of trying to go with Kellen Mond and Sean Mannion, and then you get three weeks into training camp and go, Oh no, this is not working. And neither one of these players is really going to help us. What are your options to trade any pick of significance for a better backup quarterback, like a really a lot better backup quarterback? Well, that's not a good idea. Talked about that yesterday. That's not a good idea. You don't want to be giving up any sort of real asset. Plus, any team that has a backup that they're happy with, let's say like Geno Smith or Tyrod Taylor, like why would those teams give you that guy when

you might need that guy? And, uh, you know that you've got nothing behind him. So every once in a while though, there's a situation with a veteran and a young player and the young player is good. And so you say, all right, you know, go forth veteran. Um, even the Gardner Minshew situation that was a weird one we drafted someone else Minshew wants out we are going to keep the other guy that we like and then the Eagles end up getting a really good backup quarterback for a sixth round pick so every once in a while you're able to pull off that situation but most of the time that does not happen most of the time it's like with the Vikings last year. You're picking up Sean Mannion on the last day.

You're trading on the last day for Nick Mullins because that's all you can get yourself at this stage in the game without giving up a lot. And even if you were willing to give up a lot, those teams with good backups probably are not shipping them to you because they know they have a rare commodity as one of the five to six best backups. So you've got yourself a Nick Mullins. There's two ways to go with this and we'll explore both ways. One is to say, why didn't they address the backup quarterback before this? Now, I think the answer is as they were going through this off season, they had Daniil Hunter decision, Adam Thielen decision, Harrison Smith decision,

and then free agents to sign. And I, and then a draft class to pay. And I don't know if they quite got all of that done in time to sign the backup quarterbacks who would have been decent that were free agents that the timing of this kind of matters. They had a lot of things to address to create any cap space whatsoever. So now it looks like, Oh, they would have had enough, but at the time, would they have had enough? Uh, they messed around with some contracts they added dead years to people void years and so forth so i think the answer is semi yes and semi no like the timing matters that maybe there wasn't an opportunity to spend three million dollars on a backup quarterback at that moment because they weren't sure if they were going to need three more million to say, bring in Indomitian

Sioux, an idea that seems dead, but was at least considered or to bring back Kyle Rudolph, which again, seems like at least got some consideration. So you wanted to keep that little bit of cap space alive. If you needed to bring in one more person after an injury. So I don't know that we can completely criticize them for that unless they really thought Mondermanion was going to be fine. Uh, or maybe the plan all along was let's just wait and see, and then we'll address it as we go along in training camp. That's part of it. And the other part of it is, all right, well, how good is, is Nick Mullins? Like can Nick Mullins

do the thing we always talk about, which is, and this is actually a quote from Kevin O'Connell, which I think was telling, where he said, we need somebody who could come off the bench and win a football game. Okay, now that is right. That's what you're looking for when it comes to a backup quarterback.

Can you come off the bench and win a football game or can you start at random for two weeks and win one? Now, Nick Mullins has not done that in his career. He has won five games out of 12. And so you're looking at more out of one out of three. And when you look inside the details of his numbers, this man throws a lot of interceptions, uh, 22 interceptions in 670 dropbacks, 670 dropbacks is essentially one year in the NFL. So he started 17 games, a full season's worth. And if he had started 17 games, he would have thrown for 4,800 yards, which is a lot, but 26 touchdowns, 22 picks, that's a ton. And he has twice as many turnover worthy plays as he does big time throws

and an 87 quarterback rating, which is not really good at all. You would essentially be having yourself a, a Daniel Jones. And the other thing about Nick Mullins is, and I, and I don't doubt that Mullins is a guy who knows the offense and everything else like that can deliver the ball when he's got time and so forth. And I'm going to pull up a few more numbers here in just a second, but I mean, is he somebody who is giving you a lot more than Sean Mannion, like that might be a little hard to prove. And the reason why is when you look at the team that he had in 2018 or 2020. So in 2018, Mullins starts eight games and wins three.

The next year, this team goes to the Super Bowl. And then in 2020, he starts eight games and goes two and six the next year, his team, that same San Francisco team went to the NFC championship like this 2020 and 2018 teams for the San Francisco 49ers had basically all the same players that they have now. I mean, you, you still had Debo Samuel, uh, Brandon Iuke, I mean, George Kittle, like these guys were on the team and their defense was very good still. Um, you know, and it's, it's going to be worse in terms of the defensive numbers when you're not scoring offensively and holding onto the ball. But the point is that he was playing on good teams and was not really winning. And then last year he plays one game for Cleveland,

throws for 147 yards and averages 4.9 yards per attempt. Like these are not inspiring things about Nick Mullins. Like, is it better? Yeah. But is it good or is it much better? No. I mean, so here's a way of looking at it. Nick Mullins, when he played in 2020 for San Francisco,

when he was under pressure, which was 37% of the time, he had a PFF grade of 36 through two touchdowns and seven interceptions. I mean, you can't get any worse than that. So, I mean, I know that the, and then the same thing when he was under pressure in 2018, two touchdowns, five picks a 42 grade, like this man cannot operate in the NFL under pressure, which kind of sounds exactly like what we've seen already from these other quarterbacks. So there is an element of yes, Nick Mullins is better, but there's also two teams that gave him away for other backup quarterbacks,

including the Raiders with Jared Stidham and also the Philadelphia Eagles in 2021 were totally fine with letting him go to get Gardner Minshew. So I wouldn't feel much more confident that Mullins is a lot better than exactly what they have right now. I think more, a little more serviceable, but there's not some huge upgrade. And that's where I have to stop talking about the backup quarterback situation because it's been like 10 minutes and there isn't much else to say that the facts remain that if the Vikings have to be without Kirk Cousins for more than about two weeks, the season is over. And he has a remarkably good record of being on the field though. I don't know, uh, you know, randomness can change that,

but other than randomness, you just basically have to look up toward the football gods and pray that no one else is playing except Kirk Cousins. And I don't think there's a massive second guess here. Someone asked, and it's a really good question, like, shouldn't they have just drafted Malik Willis in the third round? You know, I'm not really willing to go there because I think you're doing the same thing as with Kellen Mond. And Willis has had some nice highlight plays, but look at the situation with preseason. It's just grotesque football. I mean, this does show how bad it is with Mannion

and Mond, but almost anyone can succeed under these circumstances, which are far worse than they were even like five years ago when people were playing more first and second teamers and you could throw in a backup against decent competition. Now, uh, I mean, Gino Smith, a halfway decent player is just igniting the preseason. Kenny Pickett's showing a little flash and just lighting everyone up. So I would not say, oh man, well, they really blew it. Now, had they drafted Malik Willis in the third round, I think we all would have gone, oh, okay, well,

I guess we're doing this again and we'll see if he ever becomes anything. And then we would give it patience and see if he developed and all those sorts of things. But I don't think that that's a huge second guess. It's a different conversation. If Kenny Pickett becomes good and then you're going, wait, they did it with Mac Jones and they did it with Kenny Pickett where they believed that the first round talent guy wasn't good. And then they, then he was two years in a row, two different regimes, but we'll wait, we'll wait and reserve judgment on Kenny Pickett. I don't recall really bashing them for that, but more of making note that there was one first round quarterback. And history shows us if there's a guy who's taken in the first round, his odds are pretty much the same as anybody else taken in the first round of being good.

So long way of saying it's good to have trades and it's been okay to talk about. And I totally get why this is a thing that gets everybody worked up because you just have that worst case scenario. And also you remember that Case Keenum or Randall Cunningham or like proven backup quarterbacks have in the past, uh, made this team, you know, successful, but, but this was never really going to be one of those situations. So you can be happy that the position is not a total nightmare, but it's not also vastly better. All right, let's move on to some of your questions. All right, let's go to Nick via email. We haven't talked about centers in a little while here on the show because there really hasn't been a center competition that we expected. So Nick via email says,

with the coaches confirming a center competition, if they decide that Bradbury isn't the guy, do they try to identify a guy they like and swing a trade or do they wait until cuts to pick up a true center off the waiver wire? Yeah. I think that with the center competition, it was like the minute that they confirmed it, Chris Reed got hurt. And then there was no time to have an actual center competition. And then Garrett Bradbury is just your guy. And I don't think that they could move on from Bradbury at this point, even if they felt like Chris Reed was somehow better at center because Chris Reed missed so much with this elbow issue that even if he's back by week one, and even if half the coaching staff says, no, he's better. What they would have to do now

is just wait until midway through the season or four to six weeks into the season, evaluate what they've seen from Garrett Bradbury, and then decide, do we want to turn it over to Chris Reed when he's healthy again? I don't think anyone, but Chris Reed can be this guy. Maybe Austin Schlottman who played really well in the preseason game. He was, I don't know if I mentioned this yesterday. He was the highest graded player on the team to take that for what it means or what it is, but he had a good game. So maybe they'll like what they saw. I, but I, I think that it's in case of emergency competition, not they are battling every day. And there was no real sign of actual competition when they said it.

There was no, hey, Chris Reed's taking first team reps. He never took first team reps so far as we saw. And we saw all of the open practices during training camp. And he never took first team reps when he was there. He was either at left guard or second team center. That means that if they really, really thought that Bradbury was so far lost that they were going to have to replace him,

they would have to do it at the last second here and then try to pick somebody up that was cut by another team, which there's probably a reason why the guy's cut by another team. What I'm getting around to is if it's not Chris Reed down the road, it's probably nobody, unless it's, you know, maybe Austin Schlottman as a possibility down the road. But there has been no real competition throughout this training camp at center. And it appears that Garrett Bradbury, I mean, it's almost a dead lock at this point, is going to be your center in week one and for at least the first quarter of the season.

And we'll just see if they can work around it. But I don't think, and we're always looking for these options. Is there anybody you can pick up? But remember the Herndon. I'm just going to make that your thing as we go into these last couple of weeks where they're trying to acquire players. And I don't mean to be like, I feel like I've just spent this entire time wet blanketing everyone, but like, remember the Herndon like that, that you can't just pick up players at the end of training camp

and then have it work out. If someone else is getting rid of a guy, there's a really good reason for it. 98% of the time, every so often there's one player who changes teams or gets cut at the end of a year and become something, even though there's a dozen who go to other teams and do absolutely nothing. I just don't think that there's going to be any options for them off the waiver wire at the end, uh, that are going to, um, you know, actually actually matter and, and help them more than Garrett Bradbury would. I think that Garrett Bradbury is going to have the struggles that he's going to have. And their task is to try to work around it. And then to know what time to pull the shoot, if it's not working to not say, well, he just needed to do this or that in that last game, but four weeks in to say, Nope, it's Chris Reed time.

Sorry, we're moving on. Like, I think they have to have a good compass with that. And if there's one thing that Zimmer did last year that I think was the right thing to do, it was sticking with Mason Cole when they did. And on the defensive side though, Zimmer made that mistake, like not going to Cam Dantzler and sticking with the guy for too long. Like don't make that mistake here. If it's not working, then make a change. I would be very surprised if they made a change now though. Uh, all right. From Chris via the email. Hello again from Canada. Hello. Uh, help me understand why Vikings ownership and brass have allowed would have allowed Mike Zimmer and Kirk cousins dysfunction to exist. As long as it did, we've all come to realize how vital the coach and QB or OC and QB relationship is to a team's

success. It seems somewhat irresponsible to have allowed that to fester for as long as it did with everyone knowing it, including the fans. It seems abundantly clear that the change in coach was made several years too late. Aggressive for a Canadian, Chris. Uh, aggressive for a Canadian Chris. Uh, no, I'm just kidding. But your point in 2019, this is something we'll think about for a long time. They were ready to move on. They were ready to move on from Mike Zimmer, trade him to Dallas or whatever they would have done with him if they had lost the

playoff game. And I think they were ready to move on from cousins if they had lost the playoff game to the New Orleans Saints and they won and they won in the most exciting and dramatic fashion. And both of them were great. Kirk cousins, game-winning drive, tremendous, tremendous game-winning drive. His throw to Adam Thielen was gutsy, and his throw to Kyle Rudolph was perfectly accurate in the back of the end zone. He knew exactly where to put the football, and he came through clutch in that game. And on the defensive side, Mike Zimmer dialed up a defense that flustered Drew Brees for almost that entire game and they let the Saints come back into it but for most of that game Drew Brees really struggled against Mike Zimmer's defense so you could see why they talked themselves into it well we won this game look how

close we are Mike can still do it he could still dial up these great defenses Kirk is good enough to win in the playoffs and I even remember Rick Spielman saying at the podium at the combine the next year like yeah I mean Kirk really showed us that he's a playoff quarterback or something to that extent and it was like wow one wild card weekend game as the number six seed and we have an entirely different coach, an entirely different quarterback from two weeks before that, when they lost to the green Bay Packers at home. And that was when the tide turned toward possibly moving on from them. But if they had looked, I think I don't focus so much on the dysfunction. Cause I think that that

has been more of the last two years than it was the first two years the first two years it was John DeFilippo and I think Mike Zimmer got very frustrated with DeFilippo leaning so much into cousins and so much into the passing game and then when everything tried to change to go more run, then it just didn't, you know, it didn't gel. And I think that cousins didn't react well to it and D Filippo didn't react well to it. And it wasn't the right strategy. I mean, just, and so forth. And then there was a lot of tension and that's when they fell apart toward the end of that season. But I don't know that Zimmer felt like it was cousin's fault at that point. I really don't know that Zimmer felt like it was Cousins fault

at that point. I really don't. I mean, Zimmer in 2018, I remember going into the facility kind of early one day where he was going to talk just with the beat reporters, which is a thing that seems to be of the past, but Zimmer used to do it. And honestly, it was great. It was just like five or six of us. And Mike would just, a lot of times would just talk football and it was, it was good. And he was talking about how he was trying to encourage cousins to be a little more vocal, to lead his team and to feel like the team was his. I don't think that at that point, Mike Zimmer was treating Kirk Cousins as if he was enemy number one, or as if he had lost him his job or anything like that. I think that he believed that it was John

D Filippo's offense. That wasn't a good fit for Zimmer or for a cousins. And then the next year he was proven correct. I mean, Kevin Stefanski's offense, the first top 10 offense that cousins had had in his career. And the only one was Stefanski. They ran a lot. They had a ton of success running the ball, ran a lot of screens and then hit big plays. Like they succeeded with that offense, even if they did probably run too much overall, it was a success. So I don't think going into 2020 that Zimmer was looking at Kirk Cousins as if like this guy is driving me crazy and so forth the start to the 2020 season that was where you started to feel it because Zimmer's defense came apart at that point that was the point where they could no longer afford

to keep people around and they had to create cap space by extending Cousins. And that's where I think the resentment began. And then after 2020, you could see where the ownership would be like, we can't really fire this guy after a pandemic season when everything was so weird, but he should be on the hot seat. And then you have last year, the vaccination stuff that really pushed it over the edge. Then Mike couldn't hold in anymore that he just didn't have a lot of belief, but the beginning of the season also to 2020, where I think the defense was struggling and there were opportunities for cousins to go and win games, like game winning drive situations.

It didn't happen. That's where you start to go, man, we paid you all this money and I lost my entire defense and you can't give us a game winning drive. That's where you started to feel the friction a bit. I know it did exist at some points in 2019 for sure, but I, so it wasn't all like happy days in 2019. That was digs. Uh, but even then digs was sort of the public enemy at that point. Um, but yeah, I think it was, it wasn't until the green Bay game when they fell apart, that there was talk of Zimmer possibly being fired in 2019. And then in 2020, it was the beginning of the season where they go one in five. And there was also a game that they lost where I remember hearing that this was a

frustration. I don't know directly for Zimmer, but for some people that they had lost this game to, to maybe go one in five and cousins after the game, didn't seem upset and was like high fiving Matt Ryan or something. And they were like, dude, do you not want us to win because you don't seem heartbroken. So, and that might be unfair because a lot of players after games, they sort of put it in the past, but I think it really built from there when Zimmer's defense came apart and they couldn't afford to keep the people that he had built a number one defense with before. That is a long way of saying that you can see how that progression would result in ownership, not saying, Oh, these guys aren't getting along. We need to fire Zimmer or we need to get rid of Kirk.

You can see where it had to kind of go that route to get to the point that it got to. And it's a little easy to say in hindsight, well, they should have just done X, Y, or Z. If these guys weren't going to get along, but they were coexisting to some extent to win that playoff game. And then after that, you could blame it on pandemic or whatever. And also say, Hey, this is, this could be basically his last year of his contract. We have to play it out. But yeah, no, it's a great, it's a great question. And then the other question is how much did that matter is the other part of it. And we're going to find out. We're going to find out how much that was supposed to matter this year. Because clearly Kevin O'Connell is handling this a lot differently than Mike Zimmer did.

And so now is it going to make a difference? Is it going to result in them having a good season and a good offense and a good offense and a confident Kirk with, you know, everyone's belief behind him? Or are we going to see some of the same things where the coach becomes frustrated at the late game stuff or the lack of aggressiveness or whatever it might be. And O'Connell's not going to come out and say it. If he won't come out and say, I'm sick and tired of watching Kellen Mond, that's why we traded for Nick Mullins,

then he's not going to tell us how he feels about Cousins. But I guarantee you, the first time that they have third down and seven, and there's a throw that goes four yards, that's not going to make the head coach happy no matter who it is. We're just not going to hear about it on the outside. But coaches are going to be coaches. And I think what we're seeing already is that this coaching staff is realizing the last coaching staff didn't have it all wrong, right? It's a, it's kind of like this. Let's say that you like your friend's boyfriend or something, girlfriend, whoever partner. And you think, man, you know what? You're always kind of

bagging on that person. I don't really understand what your problem is. Like they seem pretty cool to me. So then those two break up and you get together with them. Like the person who was dumped and you go out with them for three months and you go, oh, okay, well, they don't text you back and they no show on your dates. And maybe they, you know, favorite some photos online that they shouldn't be like, you know what I mean? Like then you sort of see all the things that your friend was complaining about from the outside.

It was very easy to go. Yeah, we're going to come in here and be super positive and we're going to love up on Kirk and it's going to be the outside. It was very easy to go. Yeah, we're going to come in here and be super positive and we're going to love up on Kirk and it's going to be the best, but they haven't lost any game yet and they haven't had any letdowns yet. And if his confidence changes that, well, then that scenario doesn't exist. Maybe if you treat the other person better, you know, the boyfriend or girlfriend that they're willing to text you back or they're willing to show up for your dates. I guess that's what we're going to find out. So thank you for that question, Chris. And, uh, Canada has a great national anthem. All right. This one from at Dave

Whedon only fans question. What is your too early evaluation of quacey's first draft it looks like passing on kyle hamilton for scene was a solid move and it appears we could have at least three day one early season starters with these first three picks um now i know that this question was asked a little earlier in training camp and has been sitting in the file so we've got a little more information now at this point uh uh, as far as the first draft goes, I am very much in wait and see mode because it is, it's concerning on a few levels that one Lewis scene is not with the first team. It's not a huge red flag. It's not a, this guy's a bust and hit the panic button. But I checked this out with pff because

i i said it the other day and i was like wait a minute let me make sure so i went back and i looked at timo risky's study of all the positions and what the development curve is like like how quickly do they get it uh offensive line takes a while, uh, usually two, maybe even three years before the guy, the offensive lineman have reached their peak safety actually has the quickest. So you get drafted and you're in the NFL and you're starting at safety and boom, like, there you go. That's how it's usually gone. Like there isn't a ton of development curve for safeties and there's's no easier position walking around the national football league than playing next to Harrison Smith. Here's how I know Robert Blanton

did it. Anthony Harris, Anderson, Dayho, Xavier Woods, and they all perform pretty well. I mean, that's a, that's a position and here's Cam Bynum. So I'm not ready to declare Lewis seen a better pick than Kyle Hamilton. I'm not ready to declare him any sort of bust. Then maybe he plays a role with the three safety situation and he's effective. And then next year he takes over. But now when Cam Bynum looks like the better player by kind of a lot, uh, you certainly wonder about that. And with Andrew Booth, we've all been impressed with Andrew Booth's ability to move. And I mean, the guy is lanky and he could play the ball and he's instinctual. He's got all these things, but he's also got a nagging ankle injury now.

And, you know, the way that Kevin O'Connell, and I want to give him credit because I started out by kind of being, you know, I don't know, snarky about his press conference today where that, I mean, if you're not going to admit that you don't like the backup quarterbacks after trading for another one, man, but you know, he has been really straightforward about the injury situations. And when he said Andrew Booth Jr. has kind of been dealing with this. Oh, you want to talk about raising an eyebrow? It's like, wait, wait, wait. This guy had multiple surgeries, could not participate in the combine. And then throughout camp, he's got this ankle issue that crops up the basically the second

time that he's out on the field that the biggest concern remains the biggest concern, which is just that he could stay healthy. Cause I like a lot of things about his game, but he's going to have to stay healthy. And, uh, our friend of the show, Eric Eager from PFF brought up like Chris Cook to me that, you know, back in the day, Chris Cook kind of had the same thing where he showed promise, but then was just banged up and could never be the full version of himself. So wait and see on that one. They're not having to rely on Andrew Booth Jr.

and he should be able to get healthy, but I'm not ready to say, oh, nailed it. The same goes for right guard. I mean, the other day we saw some weakness from Ed Ingram. I don't think that they drafted Steve Hutchinson here. So that one, we're going to have to wait and see too, probably over multiple years. Similarly with Ezra Cleveland, like Ezra Cleveland has not put up great PFF numbers yet, but I think all of us are willing to give offensive linemen time to develop. And then we'll know when it's time, like with Garrett Bradbury, even going into last year, we're saying, let's see. and so with the right guard situation if indeed

Ingram wins that position which now I was just trying to figure out exactly what's going on because Ingram played a lot in the game and I don't know if that's just a rookie thing like a rookie's gonna play a lot because he needs the experience or if maybe that doesn't mean he's as far along as far as winning the job but jesse davis also worked with the second team during joint practices so not quite a uh not quite a um purple insider mystery but maybe they're not 1000 there but i think that one looks the best so far. Brian Asamoah looks quite good. I've been really impressed with Brian Asamoah. He seems like he's somebody that kind of is a dog chasing a frisbee a little bit sometimes

where it's just like, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And maybe there will be times where he learns to not always be that, but he can be a missile. And I like what I see there. So I think that right now we're still waiting to see. We're waiting to see on a few other things. We're going to have to find out what Christian Watson does. We're going to have to find out what Jamison Williams does, because that's the guy they really passed on right there is Jamison Williams.

He was right there on the board. And so we're going to have to find that out over a season, two seasons, three seasons. And then Kenny Pickett, who I brought up before that if you knew at the time that Kirk wasn't going to be the long-term option, which is kind of heavy, heavily insinuated by the USA today piece with Kweisi Adafo Mensah. Well then, you know, that's, that was the one first round talent that was left on the board. So yeah, I think that we are in way too early mode. The early returns to me are a tad questionable, but we're going to have to, we're going to have to wait and see there, which is, which is not the answer that I love to give, but I think that what

they've shown us is so far, Andrew Booth Jr. and Ed Ingram have shown us some really good things. Louis seen has shown us nothing. I mean, really nothing. His reactions to things are a little slow. And that again, like, don't take me the wrong way, but he just hasn't shown anything. And that one is the ultimate. We're going to have to give it time because we haven't even seen the flashes that we were looking for coming into training camp. And then as far as the third round pick, there's a guy who's flashed and you like what you've seen there. And maybe that's a

potential starter. So that's kind of the rundown as of right now of the rookie class where you're like, well, you know, some, some of them could go a really good way and we're going to have to watch and see how that plays out. So I wish I had some like more definitive blazing take for you that it was the best draft ever, or they blew it, uh, right now it's undecided. All right, let's go to Dan via email. He says, uh, in the past, seems like corners are labeled penalty prone early on and unable to shake that reputation throughout their careers and don't get away with contact. And sometimes it goes uncalled if you don't have that reputation. Well, he has committed his fair share of legitimate penalties. I always felt like that happened to Trey Waynes.

Based on what we're hearing about Booth, I'm concerned about the same thing. It might happen to him if he plays early on before he refines his approach. Do you think that concern is legitimate or am I galaxy braining myself? Well, uh, maybe a little on the galaxy brain thing. So a few years ago I did a story about pass interference and how to avoid pass interference and the Vikings, no surprise, I guess they had a whole thing like a whole, this is how we teach guys to not do, you know,

pass interfere, whatever. Uh, and I talked with Jerry gray, their defensive backs coach. He kind of took me all the way through it about all their different techniques that they try to, this is how we do this. This is how we handle that play. It was, it was very cool. It was, it was a fun article to write. But one of the things that I learned from that is that young players have no idea how to avoid pass interference. No idea because in college you could do whatever the heck you want. And that was Mike Zimmer's main point. When I talked to him about it was like, look, they, they just let you mall the guy down the field because there are no rules about that until the ball is in the air. So we have to unteach whatever they were teaching in college and reteach all of our techniques,

which is a lot of work when you're trying to learn how to be in the NFL. So every rookie is going to have the, like, he's too grabby type of reputation. And then there are some guys, I mean, Bashad Breeland was one of these who just never shook that one of the problems that Trey Wayne's had. And this again comes from Zimmer and it's the insight I will truly miss from Zimmer. I mean that, that Zimmer would explain how to watch these players. And it was very helpful at times that Trey Waynes did not get his head around on time. A lot of times. Now, if you're watching close, you probably already know that, but it was interesting to hear the head coach break it down. And when you don't get your head around, even though that's not really the rule anymore, that's what referees are going to look

for. If you get your head around and try to make a play on the ball, they're going to be a lot more lax about it. And that was just always an issue for Trey Waynes that he could run with anyone. He was one of the fastest players on the team. He could run foot for foot with any wide receiver, but if he had the ball coming his way, he didn't seem to have a sixth sense about when it was coming and would just like either do nothing or kind of grab at the guy and would get some penalties. I don't remember Trey Wayne's penalties being awful though. So I'm going to look it up because that's what we do here on the fans only portion of this not emergency podcast is we fact check. So let's take a look and see how bad his penalties were throughout his career.

Isn't this great by the way, is this great? Like even when I first got into sports talk radio, yeah, his penalties were not bad at all. Um, I'll, I'll give you the numbers in a second, but when I first got into sports talk radio was just as data and analytics and

everything else was starting to become a thing. It was right around the same time. PFF was beginning. Football outsiders had been around. Baseball perspectives had been around. And I remember a program director saying to me, which is like the boss in radio, like you just, you can't like talk about numbers. It's gotta be about storylines and like takes.

I was like, man, you know, I don't think that's true. I think that numbers tell so many interesting stories. And we also get to fact check the things that we think like, man, it seems like Trey Wayans gets penalized a lot. No, he really doesn't. Um, when let's see in his career, hold on, just had this got to scroll. All right. Uh, penalties. He had four in 2019, three in 2018, four in 2017, but here's probably where this comes from, from you seven in 2016. And that was with only, uh, 388 coverage snaps to get penalized seven times on 388 coverage snaps is pretty bad, but Xavier Rhodes had a legitimate problem with this.

And this was why actually his PFF grades weren't good. Cause even though his coverage was fantastic, he got called for penalties all the time. And so they would ding him for that. But, uh, Trey Wayne's no, I mean, pretty solid when it came to avoiding penalties, eventually, that's not your question. I just like wonder about this stuff. When we make statements like that. I think it's mostly a young player thing. And I don't know that it's like a reputation you can't shake because usually from year to year, outside of a few guys, these go up and down. Some years, you guys has a lot, some years, not so many, maybe the refs know certain players are a little more grabby than others, but I wouldn't worry that. And also, you know, preseason here.

I mean, preseason, they're calling everything. If you've watched these games, they're not letting the corners do anything to wide receivers because they're emphasizing. So you can count on that for the first three weeks of the year, by the way, that there will be these penalties. But I don't think that Andrew Booth Jr. has to worry about that being his reputation, um, for a long time or anything like that. I think that you can shake that. Uh, all right, let's see here. This, uh, Jason via email, if there was an expansion draft

and you were the Vikings GM, who would you protect and who would you hope gets taken? So you lose their contract. Yeah. I mean the, uh, well, that's a great question. That's just a super fun question. And let's hope that they never expand anymore. Cause this, this is enough teams. Look at the backup quarterbacks we're talking about here. This is definitely enough teams. Well, let me look here. You know, the Vikings, as far as long-term goes, they do not have disaster long-term contracts. Mostly it's more in the short term as in this year or next year. So if you were trying to look at 2023 and looking at whose contract is problematic, uh, Eric Kendrick's contract is kind of problematic. Uh, his salary cap number next year is over $11 million. That's a little tough. Um, and if he's gone that they have, you know, 9 million in dead cap. Um, Oh no, I'm sorry. 9 million in cap savings. So Eric

Kendrick's is one that comes to mind. Uh, I think though, if you were trying to, well, I guess, let's see. Now, if they said that if you put someone available for this expansion draft, you don't have to worry about dead cap. Delvin cook is your guy. I mean, he is, you are letting him out there because next year, if they cut Delvin cook, they have to take on $6 million in dead cap. Like that's a, that's a lot. It's a big chunk of dead cap space. And you could just give that away. If that was the rules, that's a pretty good one. Now it depends on how Adam Thielen plays. There's no doubt they're going to restructure this deal next year. He is scheduled to make it 2023, 20 mil on the cap with 13 million dead cap if they cut him. So he is locked into the Minnesota Vikings next year.

Even, I mean, the restructuring is the only thing which would probably make, you know, a few more million dollars. But that, wow, great job by his side because that is really something for a guy who is his age. That is a great job by his side. So those are the two guys mainly. Um, aside from that, there's not a lot of dead cap hit players, really

Harrison Smith, certainly another one, another guy that they're going to have to just convert base salary to bonus. But the way I'm looking at it right now at feeling and Smith, there's a, there's a good amount you can do there, but it's $11 million in dead cap to cut him. So that's another one that makes a lot of sense. Aside from that, there's really nobody else. I mean, this team and their cap hits, and of course, you know, Kirk is another part of this, but it's very top heavy for next year. It's Cousins, Kendricks, who knows with Hunter,

he's not playing on that deal next year. It's cousins, Kendricks, who knows with Hunter, he's not playing on that deal next year. Cook, Thielen, and Harrison Smith. Like those are the guys making up the money. Um, Delvin Tomlinson is another one. Actually. Wow. Delvin Tomlinson. I didn't realize this, that if they cut him next year, no cap savings and 7.1 million dead cap, he's a pretty good player and that's not that expensive. But if we're answering this question, it's yeah, I think that he goes in there as well. Next year, they are scheduled to have at this moment without any of those changes, $327,000 in salary cap space as of this moment. that doesn't sound like a competitive rebuild to me. So good, fun question though. Fun question. So there's quite a few players there that if there was an expansion

draft, you would, uh, you would let them go. And of course who you would protect. Uh, I'm not sure how many players you want to protect here, but your first, your first round pick Justin Jefferson is an obvious answer. Oh, that's, you know, that's an interesting one though. Like, would you even protect someone like Harrison Phillips? Maybe? I mean, Brian O'Neill for sure. Jefferson, Derrissaw, both the first round draft picks this year. After that though, after that though kj osborne hmm a little bit telling for where they're going to be at after this year gotta win gotta win this year uh all right one more one more one more let's see this from at b mole 3113 loving the show especially around the draft and now training. Thank you. In your expertise, how do you feel about the relationship between Wes

Phillips and the offense as a whole? I know that Kevin O'Connell will be calling plays, but how is the team responding to his guidance and how do you feel he will be an asset out of the gate for this unit? Yeah, that's a, that's a really good question. And I think that Wes Phillips has a ton of experience. And I think that he has a really great demeanor for what this team is trying to do. He's a very calm guy. And I think that he takes that similar sort of teacher approach. But this is Kevin O'Connell's offense.

It just is. Like, remember George Edwards? It's Kevin O'Connell's offense. Mike Zimmer's defense. That's who's going to live and die here I don't know about the relationship with Wes Phillips and the players exactly he seems like a really knowledgeable guy he knows this offense for sure learning it from McVay being with that coaching staff winning the Super Bowl with the Rams like he knows this so I have no doubt that he can teach it and teach the details, but they're going to do

things how Kevin O'Connell says they're going to do things. And so he's going to be the one that matters much more than the offensive coordinator. Not saying it doesn't matter at all, but yeah, yeah, it's this, this is Kevin O'Connell's offense for sure. Let's see. Maybe we can fit in one more here. Maybe one more. I worry about people missing their questions though. Late. Um, let's see.

Oh, here's one from, uh, Farah Nate with, uh, now the Anthony bar is no longer on the roster. Who will be wearing the green dot for the defense this year? I think that it's Eric Hendricks, but I'm not a hundred percent sure about that. I don't know that we've asked, uh, who's going to be doing that. Jordan Hicks is a really smart guy. My first observation about Jordan Hicks, he's a very bright guy. I don't know that Arizona had a great defense. Uh, he played a lot. I mean, over a thousand snaps, three years in a row. But my first observation was, you know, he actually reminds me a lot of Anthony Barr. Like he's a kind of a little bit soft-spoken, but very intelligent person and somebody that's

got a lot of experience. And those two, like he's played really well in practice. Jordan Hicks has been better than I expected. So I don't know if it's him or if it's Kendricks. I haven't gotten an answer to that, but those two might actually turn out to be pretty good. And we might be surprised and be saying like, you know, actually that Jordan Hicks pickup was, was pretty solid. So this has been a not at all emergency podcast. Look forward to soon Ben guessing of the star Tribune. We're going to record tomorrow, looking into his crystal ball. And if you've been listening for a long time, you know what that means? Always a really fun episode. So thank you all for listening. And we will talk to you soon.