Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A pre-camp Vikings 53-man roster projection

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

Matthew Coller breaks down his projected 53-man roster for the Minnesota Vikings on the eve of training camp beginning.

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of purple insider. And we are just, I don't know how many hours, 36 hours away or so from our first full team practice out at TCO performance center, watching the Minnesota Vikings in training camp and what a time it is to be alive. I wrote about this yesterday over at the newsletter, purple insider dot football, uh, just about how this is such a long time in the making, such a long time in the making. It goes back to me to 2019 that you guys have been waiting for this since 2019 when they walked off the field in San Francisco after getting bludgeoned by the 49ers and then they resigned Kirk Cousins

and we kind of knew that this direction wasn't going to get better than the team was in 2018, 2019. And then Kevin O'Connell takes over a team that had a lot of the old pieces and made the most of it. And then an Achilles injury sent them on this path because that set them up to draft JJ McCarthy in the first round. And yet you still had to wait though. You still had to wait after the Achilles injury. You still had to wait through all of last year, which was a very odd year, I think, for Minnesota Vikings fans, because you wanted the team to win the Superbowl. But yet it seemed like a lot of the fan base, even as good as they were throughout the regular

season was still kind of looking at their watches. Is it McCarthy time yet? Like, okay, they got their 12th win, 13th win, 14th win. And it really wasn't until maybe the 13th, 14th win that people started to buy into the realistic possibility that they could be a contender. And then of course, the minute that Sam Darnall got strip sacked and Jared verse picked it up and ran it most of the field for a touchdown. Uh, since that moment, again, it's been waiting around for this, for JJ McCarthy taking over as QB one. And to me training camp is the start of the season.

It's official. He will be taking a real QB one rep on Wednesday when we see him. And that's the rookie quarterback contract, but it's also the guy with the physical tools and it's the roster around him. If it was just the young quarterback, you could kind of go, okay, it's going to be a couple of years or whatever, but they have taken advantage of that contract over a couple of years of going back to last year with Granada and Van Ginkle and Cashman. And they put so much into this roster, so much money into this roster to build it this way

around a very talented young quarterback. And now we finally get to see it. But first there will be a press conference tomorrow for Quasi da Fomensa and Kevin O'Connell. I will be there and Andrew Kramer from the Star Tribune and myself are going to react to that. So keep an eye out for that video. We'll have that out right after the press conference. We'll record and have the video out soon after that. And I'll be interested just to see what comes up with, I mean, we've asked so many questions. There's so many questions going back to the owners meetings and the combine and the different times that we saw

Kevin O'Connell during mini camp and so forth. I guess maybe a little bit about Kwesi Adaphal-Mentz's contract and how they view this is a, is it the win now situation is it well how do they see it i don't see how it couldn't be a win now situation but how do they talk about the timeline of this team how do they talk about some of the questions with this team and that'll be fascinating to find out and set the stage really for wednesday when we actually get to see a real practice. And then it will be another couple of days after that.

I want to say it's Friday is when they first put the pads on and then it is real and six shooter nation. It's not all about JJ McCarthy. It absolutely is all about JJ McCarthy in this training camp. My friend, there's a lot of stories. There's a lot of stuff we'll cover. There's a lot of stuff we'll talk about, but it is all about JJ McCarthy with this training camp and this season of finding out what they have.

And can he really take them to where you have wanted to go for a very, very long time? Um, so this is, yeah, I mean, this is, this is the, you build an entire team around what your quarterback situation is. And all these players who are here that they spent so much money on are here because of JJ McCarthy and his contract. But is he ready? Is he really ready to take this team someplace that they haven't been in quite a long time? Uh, it is the most excited that I have seen Vikings fans in a really long time.

Is it 2016 before Teddy Bridgewater got hurt? Mike qualified for that. I wasn't quite here yet. I arrived right after Teddy Bridgewater got hurt, actually the same day as when I moved here and started the job on the day that they traded for Sam Bradford. So that's kind of how long this will be my ninth training camp, 10th season. How about that? Been here for a while now, but maybe 2018 with Kirk, but the vibes were weird at training camp. I still think that people thought that that was a Superbowl caliber team and it should have been. And then 2019 was so dramatic. 2020 was horrible because it was COVID and a shortened training camp. 2021 was miserable because it was the Kirk battles with vaccinations and all that sort

of stuff. And 2022 I think was pretty exciting, but still I think people thought that there was a cap on this team. Last year we started to see the signs of it. It was new. It was fresh. It was interesting. But this year, this is the year where everyone has waited to see what the first round quarterback

can do and what a roster that's this strong. I have to say it's the strongest roster since 2017. It should be fascinating. It should be really interesting. But before we get there, before we get there, um, some of you guys ask about Noah fans. I don't know guys. I mean, if his team is releasing him right now, there's gotta be something that's not great there, right? Uh,

they drafted a guy, Kevin Bartholomew who's actually put on the pop list today physically unable to perform list. I was a little surprised to see that he did miss some of minicamp but not a great start for Gavin Bartholomew to be injured which leaves Ben Urasek, Bryson Nesbit. Those guys are undrafted free agents but they're going to get their chance right off the beginning for tight end three. Nonetheless, we got a lot to get to here tonight. Monday with Maggie comes up later in the show and I have 53 football players to name before camp a tradition like none other to take a shot at picking the 53 man roster. So I'm

going to go position by position and I will have every position who I think will be there. And then the biggest question about the roster. And of course I'll keep an eye on you guys in the comment section as well. Do I miss anything about Mankato? Certainly not the drive down there, but I do miss the atmosphere. There was a little bit of a feeling that it was like old school, like NFL Filmsy, like da da da da da da da da da da.

You know, it was like, you could just envision all the great Minnesota Vikings over the years stepping onto those Mankato fields. And the stands are just, you know, made of metal and it's so hot and fans are just lining the streets, looking for autographs. It had this very old time football kind of feel. A TCO performance center is not like that. TCO performance center is top of the line. Everything it's it's high tech,

it's fresh and that's great. I mean, it's much better for the team, but you know, I think what did they used to do when it rained that they practice in like a gym. I think they practiced in like a gym when it rained in Mankato. Well, here they got this incredible facility that's inside. If it rains like it did today, then they'll be just fine. So I do. I do miss that kind of feeling of Mankato.

But when I covered my one training camp there in 2017, I didn't get a hotel room down there because my wife and I were moving into our first house. And so I couldn't just stay down there the entire time. Every day of training camp, I drove from the Twin Cities all the way down to Mankato. And that made for a very, very long training camp. So I don't miss that part of it, but it was a lot of fun to have that feeling. Anyway, let us get to the 53-man roster and we will start off with the quarterback position, my friends.

And here's what I got for the quarterback position for the 53. JJ McCarthy shockingly makes the roster. Sam Howell, and we'll see, but I think Sam Howell will end up being the backup. And I have Max Brosmer making the roster right now over Brett Rippon. And that is by far the biggest question. Can Brosmer unseat Brett Rippon for the QB3 position? I think it is realistic based on what I saw from Minicamp that Brosmer is a intellectually mature player for someone who's coming out of college.

He has a good enough arm and I think he could be very good in the room for them. Clearly gels with Kevin O'Connell based on his comments where O'Connell talked about how he saw Brosmer as one of the highest IQ players that has come out and how quickly he adapted to being in an NFL room. I think Brett Ripon has been around and clearly O'Connell has liked him as well, but there might be a little more upside with Brosmer of someone you could develop into a full-time backup by next year if he plays well. And there's going to be a lot of preseason reps to go around. I think that JJ McCarthy will play in preseason,

but I don't think he's going to play in all the games. And I don't think he's going to play a ton in these games. Sam Howell will get first halves and then second half. If Brosmer is looking the part in practice and behind the scenes, there's nothing new to find out about Brett Rippon. He's been in the league for some time. There is a lot to find out about Max Brosmer and whether his upside is being a full-time backup quarterback.

So I think there's a decent chance that that happens. They could put Rippon on the practice squad. They could also put Max Brosmer on the practice squad. The only thing I will say, I wrote an article about Brosmer, talked to a lot of people about him. Greg Harbaugh Jr., his offensive coordinator for the Gophers, had great stories about Brosmer. I talked to Quincy Avery as well, and his maturity kept coming up over and over and over again. But another thing that I think might just give him a chance to put him ahead is that I think he could throw the ball. And that's something I know like, Oh, well, he could throw the ball, right?

They, they've got them. Of course he can. But I mean, like an actual pro quarterback, you don't see that all the time from undrafted free agents. So there actually is a possibility that if they cut Max Brosmer, another team could come pick him up because he does have the arm strength and he does have the football IQ to be potentially a backup quarterback in the league. So I'm going to go with Max Brosmer for right now and then we'll see how it plays out. But if he has a good preseason, he could be QB three on this team. The only thing that might put ripping ahead is just that he's played in the league before. And you could say, well, you're never going to get to QB three this year, but O'Connell might think twice about that after ending up with Josh

Dobbs and Nick Mullins a few years ago. All right. Running backs on the roster. So I'm keeping three quarterbacks. I think that the Vikings will probably always do that going forward running backs, Aaron Jones, Jordan Mason, Ty Chandler and CJ Ham. And my biggest question here is, will they look for more options than Ty Chandler? Does anybody else on the roster have a chance? Xavier Scott and Trey Stewart are the two other guys on the roster. Doesn't seem like they have a great chance to compete with Ty Chandler for an actual roster spot. The kick return part of it is big. Dylan says it doesn't think they'll keep three quarterbacks. Why wouldn't they if they thought that they were going to lose Max Brosmer potentially to another

team picking him up? I don't know. How many have they, I'm trying to think how many they've kept in the past if they've kept three quarterbacks or not. I'm trying to think how many they've kept in the past. If they've kept three quarterbacks or not, I feel like it makes sense for them under the current circumstances to do that. Um, unless they want to take that risk of losing Brosmer to some other team. I don't know. But anyway, running backs, Jones, Mason Chandler and Ham. And really the only thing is the Chandler question is will they go look and try to get somebody else at the running back position? Would it be in the middle of camp if they're not happy?

Would it be at the end of camp during cut down day? If there's some veteran running back who gets cut, is there someone who's still out there that is looking for a job that they might decide to go with if they don't like what they see from Ty Chandler but the kick returning element is big because I think you not only want to have a kick returner who's extremely fast and nimble but I think durable and physical matters with this kick return this kick return is violent man like somebody breaks off

a block and you run into a full speed that can hurt. And if they don't trust maybe like a Silas Bolden or if Rondale Moore isn't very good at it or someone like that, you don't want to be putting Isaiah Rogers back there. It's possible they use him, but if he's going to be Q CB2, I don't think so. I don't think that you want to put a starting cornerback back at kick return and that could keep Ty Chandler on this team. He could also maybe have last year be a wake up call that yeah, he had a nice little breakout 2023, but that doesn't mean anything. And he could take a step forward, but if he doesn't, they're probably looking outside. I still think that CJ ham remains on this team. I

get the question pretty often like, Hey, do.J. Ham would get cut? Uh, though that someday they'll need that roster spot. Like I get it, but he is really important to special teams and he is really versatile. Uh, they can line them up in different places. They can use them as a past protector. I did a story two years ago about how Kevin O'Connell completely revamped CJ Ham's role on the team to make sure that he stayed on the team, which was to make him a pass protector. And they used him a little more in the run game last year. And Ham was really at his best.

This is something I'm curious about. Ham was at his best when they ran outside zone stuff with Kevin Stefanski and Gary Kubiak. And I don't think he's been as good of a run blocker or as comfortable with what they've asked him to do under this run blocking scheme. But I do think that there are going to be more outside zone runs with Jordan Mason here

because that was really his specialty with San Francisco. So there's your running backs. We'll see if somebody else shows up. That's kind of the big major question here. So we go on to wide receivers. Now this one is quite interesting to me because I decided to stick with six wide receivers. One of them being a special teams specialist.

So that is Tim Jones. There's also Tavair Thomas, who is another special teamer that they brought in. Those two are kind of competing for us one spot, I think. So I decided to go with Jones here who was playing for Jacksonville last year. Um, Rob, uh, I think Ty Chandler in 2023 played well, but I don't think last year he played well at all. It was not the same guy last year.

Uh, as far as his kick returning that, that I could see though, his kick returning and, and look at the potential is there for Ty Chandler and the explosiveness is there, but they have to be able to trust them. They have to be able to trust them. And last year they didn't, and he didn't have those explosive runs either. Um, so anyway, receivers, I started in the hottest spot with receivers, which of course is the special teams expert in Tim Jones But I am curious though if Silas Bolden who is more of a returner if he can carve out a role as a Returner and win a sixth spot maybe over somebody like Tim Jones who is more of a special teams Specialist and then the other spot that is fascinating other than of course, on my 53

Jefferson Addison Naylor, those are locked in. But I have Rondale Moore and Ty Felton. Are Rondale Moore and Ty Felton locked in? We have to see how Rondale Moore just looks in general physically before we can know if he's going to make the 53 because more missed all of last year and missed all of OTAs and mini campus. He was still recovering from an extremely serious leg injury. I mean, think about that a year later and he was not ready to be out there. So that kind of tells you just how significant that injury really was for Rondale more. If the spark is there, if the acceleration is there, the playmaking,

then he can make the roster. He could be wide receiver for, he can get opportunities even more. So when Jordan Addison assuming is suspended, he could be a returner punts or kicks. Like there's a lot of potential for him, but we've got to see it first. And the number of times where that similar type of player has started out, uh, you know, in training camp and we kind of knew right away, oh, this is not really going to work or the guy wasn't what he used to be. It's happened enough for me to have a particular amount of skepticism when

it comes to this type of guy, the guy who signs for 2 million bucks and you're kind of hoping the reclamation project works. But there's a lot of intrigue with Rondale more. So I've got him on the roster and Ty Felton, third round draft pick. He's going to be on the roster. Will he get to play that we are going to find out. So Jones is, is the interesting one because if they don't love Rondale Moore and they don't love Tim Jones as a special teamer, then what do you end up with? Or does Silas Bolden fight his way onto the roster? But what do you end up with? Do you end up with Lucky Jackson? Do

you end up with Thayer Thomas? Does someone else surprise us? I mean, a Robert Lewis or someone who's a guy from Auburn, I you know i don't know miles price from indiana there have been plenty of times in the past where we i don't know some u d f a okay just a guy probably be practice squad and then they surprise us you know adam thielen guys i don't know if you know but he went to mancato from detroit lakes minnesota and ended up making it. But even like a Chad BB or a BC Johnson or something like that, like it happens where every once in a while that player, uh, just will surprise you as an undrafted free agent.

So the backend of this wide receiver group, I think there are four spots that are filled in and then there's one or two that could be open on the 53 man roster. All right. Let us move on to tight ends. Now my assumption is that Gavin Bartholomew will get healthy. We'll see. He's on the pup list. Uh, Chas Chambliss, undrafted free agent outside linebacker also on the pop list today, by the way. Uh, so I've got, because we don't know that injury update. We're going to get it from Kevin O'Connell, but for right now, TJ Hockinson, Josh Oliver, Gavin Bartholomew, the one to watch, I think is Ben Urasek from Georgia. He's got pretty good hands,

caught everything in mini camp. Uh, but Bryson Nesbitt is a little bit more of a downfield guy. So we'll see on that. Um, also Giovanni Ricci used to play for the Panthers. They picked him up as a veteran. Again, that's a wide open race for tight end three. I don't know. So right now I've got just Hockinson Oliver in the sixth round draft pick. And then the biggest question is will an undrafted free agent tight end surprise us? And the other thing could be also, Hey, is there a, a, a Johnny months that could end up here? It could even be Johnny months.

If the Jacksonville Jaguars cut him, maybe Kevin O'Connell's favorite player ever. Johnny month ends up back as a Minnesota Viking. That's one where if Bartholomew is not healthy, then it's probably a guy that they go out and get, uh, who is a veteran that ends up getting cut at or you know, whatever, or a team tries to sneak him onto the practice squad. You know, the Noah fan thing, I just, I don't know when it T you have to, we have to common sense this thing a little right with Noah fan, when a team cuts him at this stage in the game, there's gotta be something wrong.

How often do you ever see a player get cut at this point and the Broncos didn't like him. The Seahawks didn't like him. I don't know. Yeah. I saw Anthony. I saw that Pete Bursich did a video on Ben Yurasek and I guess he sees, you know, same kind of thing. I got some good hands. He's a physical kind of player. So, but I'm just, I'm not into the Noah fan idea. Not when, and I look at Seattle as a team that doesn't do crazy stuff. If they release a guy right at the end before training camp, something went wrong there.

Something was weird there. So you got, you got your three tight ends. We'll see who ends up being tight end three. Now the offensive line, I think is pretty well set. My biggest question is, can any undrafted free agent like a Logan Brown or Joe Huber, can those guys step up and maybe steal a job or force their way onto the team and will they be fully convinced? And some of you have asked about Michael Juergens.

Will they be fully convinced that he's good to be the center if Ryan Kelly gets injured because otherwise they might have to look elsewhere if they are not convinced. Is there a limit of players you could put on the pup list? Not that I know of. I think if you end up with that many players that you need to put that you need to be pushing a limit could be a problem. Maybe there is. I don't know. I've never looked into the PUP rules.

But maybe if you can find them and see, I've never heard of a, I've never heard of a team having so many players on the PUP list that they needed to meet a limit. So anyway, with the offensive line, Darasaw, Donovan Jackson, Kelly, Will Fries, Brian O'Neill, obviously, and the backups, Walter Rouse, Justin Skool, Blake Brandle, and Michael Juergens. I personally think this is a pretty good backup offensive line because you have a guy who's been in the league for a few years and just in school. He's actually played Walter Rouse. I thought showed very well during training camp last year and has potential to even,

I would say to even start at left tackle. If Daris saw a can't start in week one that there's nothing that counts. Walter Rouse out from winning that job. He also might cross train a little bit at guard and tackle during this training camp. We'll see. I don't know how high the ceiling is on Rouse, but I mean, he, last year I thought showed athleticism. That was pretty good. He was a high intelligence player, but he can anchor really, really well against pass

rushers. So I mean, I'm at least intrigued on whether he could get some of those first team reps. I assume it will be Justin school to start. And I also think Blake Brandle is a very good swing guard. I don't think that they're going to bring back Dalton Reisner, but you never know if someone gets banged up. I mean, if Brandle or if Will Fries, I mean, Will Fries didn't participate in mini camp and it seems like there was an insinuation from Kevin O'Connell that he would be good to go in training camp. And it seems like there was an insinuation from Kevin O'Connell that he would be good to go in training camp. He's not on the pop lists, so we'll see with Will fries. I assume he's going to be good to go, but if he's not and there's a problem, uh, then I guess you do call Dalton Reisner because for some reason nobody else did. I know. I just don't really

get it. I never heard anything that he was a problem. Uh, and the run blocking. Okay. I know it's not that great, but it might just be that Reisner continually tries to get more money than he's actually worth and ends up still waiting around during training camp. Um, but as a backup, Dalton Reisner is a good one. So I think that's pretty much set on the offensive line if everybody stays healthy We'll see on that and if they don't then you could have some other guys sneak in to that conversation So we'll see on that but as far as the nine offensive linemen I think that they're pretty much good there and maybe someone like Logan Brown

Can step up but we'll see We'll see on Michael Juergens. We'll see. If Brown makes it in quasi loves Juergens and Rouse is Brandel out. I don't think Brandel can be out because he's a guard who played an entire 17 game season in the playoffs last year. Look around the off the NFL. Find how many offensive linemen are as good as Blake Brandel was last year. I know he wasn't phenomenal, but for at least a half a season, which is what you're looking for, for a backup. If a guy could come in and play half a season and he was actually

pretty decent alongside Christian Derrissa, like that's a good guard. Uh, it's just hard to see any of these guys getting beaten out, but. That's why they play the practices because you never know who's going to emerge. So we'll keep our eyes on that. I don't think there's a lot of controversy there though on the offensive line. As far as defensive line goes, here's my guys for the D line. I've got Jonathan Allen, Harrison Phillips, Jayvon Hargrave, Jaylen Redmond, Levi Drake Rodriguez, and Tyreon Ingram Dawkins.

And the guy that I left out here, and this was one of those where, as I'm doing the 53 that the way I do it, my 53 man process, I got a process. That's how long I've been doing this guys. I got a process for my 53 man roster projections is I just write down off the top of my head, every single player that I think is going to be on the team. And then I go back and count it up and look at the depth chart again to make sure I didn't miss anybody and so forth. And when I wrote it down originally, I had one more defensive lineman, which was Takita

Yamani. And then as I was going through and going through the rest of the 53, I just couldn't fit another defensive lineman onto the roster. So I ended up with Ingram Dawkins and Rodriguez and Redmond being the guys who made it. It is of course possible that Taimani makes it as well because they don't really have a true nose tackle run stuffer, that kind of guy, like a, a fire hydrant type of guy. And NBA summer league says that he'll be the backup nose tackle. It's either Levi Drake or Redmond that very well could be.

But I also think that this team doesn't have a true nose tackle. They don't play a true nose tackle. What they try to do. And I was told this by, um, Durante Jones, cause I was talking to Durante Jones about Theo Jackson and he was telling me that Theo Jackson last year was really a Josh Mattel is clone. Like they try to have a player who's a backup who's very similar to the starter. So they wanted Theo Jackson as a multifaceted type of player, high IQ to kind of be like the

backup version of Josh Mattelis, which is probably why they used Bobby McCain a little bit in that game against Seattle and not just the Jackson because McCain was probably the backup for that position for Cambina at the, at the start. And then Theo Jackson got in the game a little bit more later. And I think that they want Levi Drake Rodriguez to be a Harrison Phillips clone, where he's not exactly 340 pounds, but Tiamani isn't either, by the way, he goes at 309, I think. But they want him to have body moving potential where it's not just stuff gaps, it's also quickness that goes into it as well. It's strength that goes into it as well.

And he kind of has a similar body type, a little bit shorter, I think, but kind of Harrison Phillips like, and I don't think that Levi Drake Rodriguez is ever going to be this lightning pass rushing type. I think he's more of a, of a pusher. And yeah, Matt bringing up that you could put time on the, on the practice squad. Yeah, I totally agree. And this is what usually happens is they cut down to the 53. We're like, oh, no, what's going to happen to that guy?

And they just on the team anyway. That was like Bo Richter last year. He had a great preseason. Everybody loves them. I can't believe they cut him. And then he was on the active roster a few weeks later. In this case, though, a fifth round pick. If Ingram Dawkins shows anything, I think he's on the team team and Jalen Redmond, I'm going to stick with this one.

I'm going to, I'm going to stick with this take that I think Redmond ends up being the guy out of this group that plays the most and ends up taking the big step. But really if it's a battle for two spots with three guys, Levi, Drake, Rodriguez, Ty Rion, Ingram Dawkins, and Taki Taimani could be pretty interesting. And Redmond is not locked into the roster 100% either. So that's a real battle. And one more thing on this, I actually wasn't really sure

whether to put Tyron Ingram Dawkins with the D line or with the outside linebackers, because in mini camp, it looked to me like he was playing a little more D line but he could also be that guy he was playing outside as an edge rusher during college and had some success there he could also be considered an outside linebacker which of course is our next group let me fix that real quick that is our our next group here is the outside linebackers.

And you know, with this unit, this is where I've probably talked about the most for my interest in this. No, wait, it's not supposed to be like that. Why am I small? Oh, supposed to be like this. There we go. We got it right. Okay. Um, I've, I've probably talked the most about just the backups here. We know van ginkle, we know Jonathan Grinard, we know the Dallas Turner, those guys are going to be here and that's the list van ginkle, Grinard, Turner, but I've got Bo Richter and gay Murphy as being the only other two outside linebackers that make it this could also be a position where they go outside the building.

It will depend on the other outside linebackers. But now with, I actually wonder if Tyreon Ingram Dawkins ends up at that position because they just don't have a lot of actual bodies. And that's my biggest question is, is there anybody else that can make things interesting? And I'm just going to pull up the Vikings roster here because am I missing somebody that is an outside linebacker on this team? So they have Ingram Dawkins listed as a D lineman, by the way, if you're, if you're curious, but Gabe Murphy, Bo Richter, Dallas Turner, van Ginkle. I mean, that's it. And Tyler Batty, Tyler Batty from

BYU. Those are the only other guys. So I guess, you know, can Tyler Batty make things interesting? Can Gabe Murphy make things interesting? Is there a bunch of undrafted free agents as the guys who are fighting for depth position at the outside linebacker spot. I guess another thing outside of, uh, yeah, Tyler Batty, the undrafted free agent for BYU, who is, uh, uh, let's call them on the experienced side. I knew I was leaving somebody out, but aside from him, I mean, there's just, there's not a lot of people. So do they go out and find somebody else or something that came to mind for me. And maybe, uh, you know, Dylan mentions Ingram Dawkins as being that guy.

Uh, but maybe there's like an Eric Wilson type of role for that, where he is. I mean, he's undersized for being an outside linebacker as a depth player, but that might be something that could happen in a pinch and maybe he'll take some reps there as an outside linebacker. But aside from that, I mean, this is a very light group. So if anybody gets hurt, then you're talking about an undrafted free agent from last year stepping in to be a rotational player. Whereas last year that was, they had the Jahad ward they had, and maybe they see Ingram Dawkins

as being the Jahad ward. had, and maybe they see Ingram Dawkins as being the Jahad ward. Some of you have made that comparison. It's just interesting to me that there's not another veteran here unless there's somebody that they think they can go find. So the biggest question being just can, can somebody make that unit interesting? All right. Let's take a look at the linebackers here. I've got them keeping five.

Some of you have mentioned in the comments that Brian Awesome Walk could be the odd man out. I think that's possible, but I also think that when you look at the special teams snaps last year, awesome. What took a lot of them and Kobe King is a rookie. We don't know how he's going to play on special teams. He did a little bit in college, but we don't know how he's going to play in special teams. Eric Wilson is a special teams monster that could make a difference. But last year they had also Kamu Grigé Hill, who was a special teams ace, not so much a

great fill in player, but a special teams ace. And they also kept Brian awesome. As well. I think that when you're making that roster, you know, you might have it come down to awesome law versus Kobe King and you might go with Kobe King because you like the fact that he's young and has a chance to develop. It could be a run stuffer and bring you something on defense. But you know, I do think that awesome. Why has a decent chance to stick around just because of the fact that

he plays special teams as far as though, I mean, all the years covering the team got a guy getting frozen out. Awesome. Why has been one of the most frozen out players where they have a defensive coordinator who finds great ways to get people on the field and rotates a good amount and looks for different roles and strengths. And awesome. I just could not force his way onto the field no matter what, which was kind of crazy that he wasn't even used at all. But if you look at the special team snaps, I can pull this up.

And this was my justification was really the special team snaps, uh, for awesome. I'll see if I can find it here. That it would be a lot to try to replace with a rookie. If you were looking to try to, yeah, I mean, so he had last year by PFF, a 77.3 grade on special teams, which is very good and played 342 special team snaps. That's a lot. That's a lot to try to replace.

So that's why I had him on the roster. It is altogether possible that they move on if they feel like he's just taking up a special team spot only. I'll add one more thing to that about that position is with the kickoff, there is an expectation there's going to be a lot more kickoffs. And if there's a lot more kickoffs, I would not want someone like Ivan pace Jr. Out there chasing people down all day long. I would be willing to keep one extra linebacker to make tackles on special teams who's not going to be

into the game. All right, let's move on to the cornerback position. Here's my 53-man corners. I have Byron Murphy Jr., Mackay Blackman, Isaiah Rogers, Dwight McClothern, and Jeff Okuda. And as far as the rest of the corners, the biggest question is, can Jeff Okuda hold them off? Can he show enough during training camp to carve out a role for himself as a backup? It would be pretty surprising if he beat out Mackay Blackman for as much as they liked him last year or Isaiah Rogers for as much as Brian Flores has apparently liked Isaiah Rogers for years going back to the Boston connection with UMass and so forth. But I don't think I think he would have to be spectacular training camp to earn a spot over someone like Blackman or Rogers.

Can he beat out McClother and for even like CB for that we're going to see as well. And then there's a couple of guys who are just sort of interesting. And the one who I will have my eye on the most at the cornerback position is Zmajevan from Utah. He came out in mini camp and the guys got crazy length and he's really got impressive hops and he just made plays. He just went after the football. He just, he got past breakups.

And, uh, when you see him jump up in the air, it looks like an NBA player. And then when he has the length, you go, okay, is he kind of this year's McClother and where it's a guy that you just didn't think of at all when they signed him and then, Whoa, okay, this guy can play, uh, that might be the case. And the other one is Ambry Thomas, who played for San Francisco in 2023, was a part of that very, very good defense. Didn't play great, but does have that experience,

did not hit the field last year, it was banged up. And I think he was on the practice squad for the Vikings last year, and so now he's here. So it's kind of Okuda versus Zmaevn versus Ambry Thomas. And then, you know, there's a handful of other undrafted free agents who are in this mix as well. I would be surprised if anyone really got into it, but you never exactly know it. I think it's actually, um, Jeff Okuda versus himself. Uh, Rob, I think you're way off on that. I think you're way off, but I think they like Mackay Blackman a ton.

I think they like they were ready to start Mackay Blackman last year. I think they really, really like him. I think he would have to get injured again. I think not to be in the mix. There's a very clear line of demarcation on this team at the cornerback position. The starters are Murphy, Blackman and Rogers. And then the rest of the guys are fighting for maybe two spots. You know, McClother and Okuda, Thomas Vaughn, to me, are fighting for two spots.

And that will be interesting. I do think that Okuda has a chance to carve out a spot. I mean, Anthony mentions he's good versus the run. And I think that that's true. But corners don't play because they're good against the run. And I think that that's true, but corners don't play because they're good against the run. Like they've really got to trust him one-on-one with guys where he's not been good historically. They have to trust him in those situations

where he's got to play in a zone and he's got to read multiple route combinations and communicate and be really part of the unit. So there's a lot to prove in training camp at this cornerback position for a lot of guys. This is one of the unit. So, uh, there's a lot to prove in training camp at this cornerback position for a lot of guys. This is one of the most interesting battles that exists on the roster. All right, let's go to safety. I have no questions at the moment. I have no questions at all. I think that we've got

it pretty well locked down. And what I mean is no 53 man questions. I have real questions about this group, but Harrison Smith, Theo Jackson, Josh Mattel is J ward. And there you go. Uh, Jeff Okuda in the slot doesn't make a lot of sense because, uh, really the, the shifty ness is super important with the slot and he's huge. And I think maybe part of the issue with his career is that he doesn't have that quick twitchiness he uses his strength more which might work as a zone corner if he's good enough at understanding the defense to then collapse on guys and make tackles and maybe

make a break on a play or something but he's had a lot of the issues are I think the when a guy has a two-way go against him because what the league when a guy has a two way go against him, because what the league is trying to do is take guys like Okuda completely out of it. Hey, this is a shutdown physical corner on the outside. Well, what if I take my receivers and I put them in bunch formations on both sides or well, you know, different splits on both sides or a bunch formation over here. And we have all these different releases that you can't get up in somebody's face. Right. So, I mean, I guess, yeah, the one question could be if they signed someone else, if

there was an injury or something, or if they didn't like how it was going, uh, who gets on the field if Josh Mattel is holding out, that could be a possibility as well. Um, but this group is Harrison Smith, Smith Theo Jackson Josh Mattel is J ward and then There is one other guy at the safety spot that might be a practice squad potential and that is Michelle Powell or Michelle Powell Who played at Miami 24 year old rookie former five-star guy? But you know the safety position is weird that way I never want to count anybody out as you guys know, uh, over the years, but it's hard to see this being anything else, uh, other than Smith, Jackson, Mattelis and Jay Ward.

So I literally had no questions about this group and the specialists just so I could use a picture of the long snapper, Andrew DePala, Ryan Wright and Will Reichert. And my only question is, is there actually a punting competition with Ryan Wright and Oscar Chapman? At this moment, I am saying there is not. I don't believe at this moment that there is a punting competition

because they can keep Oscar Chapman as part of the international exception rule and have 91 players on the 90 man roster or you know, whatever so I know I know son of a beavers. It is very disappointing to hear that there might not be an actual punt competition I just don't think so I think that Ryan Wright has this job and Oscar Chapman is brought in because he's an interesting guy to them and if Wright really really struggles then we're going to probably see them go outside of the building, like they did with Jordan Berry and, uh, well, actually

Jordan Berry came in for Matt. Wild. Was that right? How that went? I forget exactly how that went. Yeah. I think Matt wild was the guy and they brought in Jordan Berry once upon a time. It was Ryan Quigley, but they brought in

Britton Colquitt after that. So it's happened a number of times where another punter is picked up kind of late in the game, but we'll see. We'll see if there's a pun competition. Nobody will be more excited than this guy to watch and track every punt. So there you go. You're 53 man roster projection. Everything

is subject to change. NBA Summer League says the Mattelis thing. Contract thing seems weird, like there's no progress. I guess on that what I would remind you of is that the Vikings have not negotiated through the media in recent years. Think about Justin Jefferson. How much did you hear from the Vikings during the Jefferson negotiation? Not a lot. They went out of their way to not make a lot of public statements other than just to say,

hey, we want to get this done. We love Justin Jefferson, period. That was it. You didn't hear like, oh, the team thinks that Jefferson is acting this way. Or you didn't hear from Jefferson's camp. Oh, Justin feels wronged or disrespected or there was nothing. And I think with Josh Mattel is it's the same thing where he came out in mini camp when we spoke to him and he said, I want to keep these conversations private and we're just want to keep these conversations private and we're just going to keep it between us.

And I think Drew Rosenhouse is his representative. We're going to keep it in house and we'll see what happens. So they've stuck to that and they haven't put out a whole lot of stuff, which is why we haven't heard anything. There have been contracts that they've signed where we didn't hear anything and then it just happened. What was the recent one? Josh Oliver. We didn't hear any buzz.

I didn't have Josh Oliver on my radar as a guy that was going to sign a pre camp contract extension, especially a lucrative and long contract extension for him. What was it a couple more years to two or three more years for Josh? I just didn't have that like on I'm a bingo board and they did it. Uh, there was a Brian O'Neill extension that happened a couple of years ago that came out of nowhere. So it does happen where it's under wraps. And then all of a sudden when

it's done, it's done where I can't quite make it fit exactly is just when it comes to Mattel is who's the comp, who's the guy that in the negotiations, his side or their side is saying, Hey, he's just like this guy. And this guy got X number of dollars because he's so much different than most other players at the safety position in the league. It's even hard to look at a PFF grade, for example, because Mattelis is playing so much of a linebacker position that is gonna get good run grades is gonna make a lot of tackles the d-line make space he shoots through he makes tackles he do you cause fumbles stuff like that but when it comes to coverage

he's actually playing a lot of linebacker type coverages where he's getting targeted technically a lot, but they're not getting a lot of yards against him, which is so different than most corner or most safeties. Most safeties are playing in the parking lot way back. And if they get targeted, it's on some sort of deep shot. And that's just different from Josh Mattel is. So how do you work through finding guys that are comparable? Let me pull this up here. I'm just kind of curious because I've, I've had trouble finding

a guy with the different type of usage as Josh Mattel is. I wonder how many safeties played in the box or at nickel as much as him. Actually, no one, no one played in the box more than Josh Mattel is at the safety position last year. Zero. There were a couple of guys who are close. Justin Reed was actually pretty close and he got a contract this off season. And I've mentioned Trayvon Morrig before. Buddha Baker is probably the comp that his agent would want to use, but I think is maybe a little rich, but Justin Reed makes a lot of sense. I'll have to look up what Justin Reed got and Mattel is also played had the sixth most snaps in the nickel corner position.

So that's what makes it hard. Like other guys like him, Kyle Hamilton, Brian Branch. That's what makes it difficult is that he played so much in kind of a linebacker type position that are you looking at? Are you actually looking at linebacker contracts as well? Let me see what Justin Reed got here because I think he signed a contract with somebody. Didn't he?

This off season. Let's see. Justin Reed signed with the Saints at $10.5 million per year. So that's probably what the team is looking at. And it's not too much different in terms of the age. More. I got more money than Reed. Reed has been a key part of Kansas city. Let's see. So yeah, he signed a three year deal worth 31.5 million. So I think that what the Vikings are probably thinking is somewhere in that ballpark is probably right

for Josh Mattelis. But if you're Josh Mattelis, you're thinking somewhere in the Trayvon Mourig 15 to 17 range is right. And maybe they'll settle somewhere in the middle. Cause I think that Mattelis is a special and unique type of player. I agree Dusty that there have been other players who have

tried to do this and it has not worked out the way Mattel is it can play multiple spots, but also play them. Well, it's not just that he's lining up there. It's also that he's succeeding Rob. Where would I rank the top seven or the front seven of the Vikings defense? I mean, right now, if everybody's healthy and is playing at mostly the version of themselves, you know, Hargrave, let's say he's playing at 80% of two years ago. Jonathan Allen is playing at 80% of two years ago. Jonathan Allen is playing 80% of two years ago. I

mean, think you got to put it in like the top seven top six defensive lines, front sevens, because yeah, you got to include those outside linebackers. I mean, Philadelphia is still really, really good. Tampa Bay is really good. Pittsburgh's really good. Maybe, maybe there uh, there's a list of them of, uh, where they're ranked by other people, but I, I, right off the top of my head, I would have to say in the top five or seven, the Rams as we know are pretty good on the defensive line. Uh, Dylan suggesting three years, 35 million with 25 guaranteed. I mean, that's, I think that's somewhere in that ballpark is pretty fair.

Yeah. But I could see the gap being significant. I could see that his representation trying to say, like, how many guys are like this in the league? And a lot of them are considered stars because now let me pull it back up. You know, look, I'm not saying he's Kyle Hamilton exactly, but if you're his representation, aren't you going into this kind of talking about how he plays like Kyle Hamilton? I mean, that's if I was representing him, I would now Hamilton is better is one of the top players

in the entire league, I think. But if we talk about box safeties, uh, Mattel is last year ranked pretty well among them. I mean, he actually graded about the same as Trayvon Morag, who got that 15 ish million dollar contract. Jeremy Chin is another one who plays a lot up there. Grant Delpit from Cleveland. Yeah, I mean, Xavier McKinney is probably on a different level there. He plays a lot.

That's what I mean. It's just not it's just not that easy to figure that one out I didn't get too many responses from you guys on the 53 did you love them did you hate it the 53 were there debatable positions James says I think you hit it well the few things I would do is cut well rise well Reisner is not on the roster right now, but Rippen, I guess you mean Rippen, keep the young guns. Maybe we talked about Reisner so much it sounded like he's on the roster. He has been.

As the backups, we should err on the side of potential upside. The go for QB just might be QB too. I mean, Brosmer, let's not push him a little too much for Brosmer to be QB two. Um, Brosmer is QB three, I think at best, unless he just destroys training camp, he's incredible in the preseason. And even then he's an undrafted free agent rookie. I don't think you want that guy one step away. That's why you have Sam Howell that you would much prefer Sam Howell to be your guy there. Um, but you know, when you talk about the potential upside, this is tough

because for years it has been, well, yeah, they're competitively rebuilding, keep any young player with any sort of upside. And I agree with that with the expansion of the practice squad, though, you could kind of just keep anybody you want that has potential with the expansion of the practice squad. When it used to be 10, there were a lot of really tough decisions when there used to be 10.

But now what is it 17? You can kind of keep anybody you like. If you don't make your team's practice squad, then it went pretty, pretty tough for you. And as far as the upside, I think you want to keep a lot of guys who are proven on this roster, proven backups. They don't make a mistake on a win now roster by getting rid of somebody who has played in the league before and has proven themselves just because you like a younger guy.

And like everybody falls in love with all the young guys because we haven't seen the mistakes yet. We haven't seen the issues yet. We haven't seen the issues yet. And that happens to NFL people as well. I think it happened in 2018 when the Vikings went to the younger guys and they cut Terrence Newman and B-Rob and it was not the same. Let's see. Dusty says, I think the 53 is pretty chalk. We're talking fringe spots, which are interesting, but barring a huge surprise cut, there's not much in the way of heavy intrigue for roster battles. I agree with that mostly,

but the one position that I really think it could matter in the position battles is wide receiver that wide receiver for five, possibly six. That's where it could get really interesting if Rondale more does not live up to what we think Rondale more could be, because you go through this outside of Rondale more. So Ty Felton will be on the team and there's certainly a chance that Felton is really good right away and he's wide receiver for and off you go very possible there certainly have been worse wide receiver for is then a third round pick who runs sub four four right I think he's gonna need development he just hasn't played a ton of college football he was on the bench for Maryland for a few years as a rotational player even just a little and then took off year, but that's not a ton of football, not a ton of development.

And now just joining the pro level, it might be a little bit difficult if he's got to slide into, because everything has to be thought of through the lens of Jordan Addison. Like if he's out three games, well, somebody's sliding up a spot. If Rondale Moore is good,

and he slides up into wide receiver three, well, that's great. I mean, that guy's played in the league before he's a little more of a complete wide receiver than I think he started out his career for sure. But I think he did develop with Arizona. Okay. Well, he can handle that for a couple of weeks, but if he's not okay, if he's not sharp anymore or explosive anymore, then all of a sudden you're kind of going, all right, well, Felton, I hope you're ready. Or are you looking at someone like a lucky Jackson who has been developing for years? Uh, the other guy I didn't mention is just Sean Jones, who kind of always comes

up in these conversations that had a good camp last year, but no actual experience. Like lucky Jackson is 28 and has been around, has been in the UFL or XFL or whatever version he was in USFL. So he's actually played some pro, but it gets, it gets liked on experience after that wide receiver three. So that one is one that could have a significant impact, I think on the the actual roster. NBA Summer League, if Addison is out three games, I've got Thielen. We'll see. We'll see. I know everybody always wants back the guy who used to play here. And Thielen was pretty good last year for Carolina, but if I'm Carolina, I don't see why they would give him up because you have Ligette who's

inexperienced. You have Macmillan who's inexperienced. A couple other guys who have been around a little bit, right? But they traded away their top pick from a few years ago to Dallas for kind of nothing. Actually, I think they did pretty well in that trade, but they still like they got rid of that guy. I forget. I forget even his name. Someone can throw it in the chat, but I think they need feeling

to be wide receiver three. They need some experience at that position. So I know everybody I have seen that come up. He was thrown with McCarthy, uh, the local news, you know, I, I forget who had that, but the local news had some B roll of those two throw into each other or, you know, McCarthy throw into Thiel and it was like, Oh, is he coming? I mean, if you're the Vikings, sure. Yeah. But I think Carolina wants him. Chloe says they picked up Mullins after a preseason game. They could do the same again. If through camp, they're worried about their depth for corners or quarterback. Yeah.

I mean in corner last year, they picked up Stefan Gilmore late in the game and he's still a free agent. So if it doesn't go well, and if Mackay Blackman struggles or they don't like what they see from Isaiah Rogers, they could go ask Stefan Gilmore to come back or look for somebody else. Now there was a report that I think the dolphins are going after Rasul Douglas, but he's still out there as of right now. I'm sure they want to see it first. And the same thing goes for Sam Howell.

What happened between mini camp and training camp is big for Sam Howell. If he comes into training camp and he's ready to go, like all guns ablaze in and he's ready, he's running the offense and that's great. But if there's frustration like there was with Sean Mannion and Kellen Maugham that year in 2022, I think Kevin O'Connell has shown and Quasi D'Affalmenta has shown that they will go and get somebody else that that exists for any position. That's how Dalton Reisner ended up here is twice is that they just weren't super pleased. Let's see. Matt says, I think a UDFA corner or wide receiver makes the roster. I think TB3 is going to be picked up from another roster cut down.

TB3. Who is TB3? Oh, tight end three. Okay, that's a typo. Gotcha. I was like, tailback? Tailback three? Although it could be. Oh, RB three. Okay. You corrected RB three. No, that's, it could be tailback three, I guess. RB three could be picked up from another

roster. Yep. That's true. That, that is, it's really, there's a bunch of battles here that are just the guy against himself. Sam Howell against himself, tie Chandler against himself. You can have the job, Rondale more against himself. You can have the job if you're ready to go. But if you're not, they're going to go get someone else. Now, Keenan Allen, son of a beavers wants Keenan Allen. I couldn't say no. If Jordan Addison was suspended for three games and they didn't love what they saw from Rondale more Keenan Allen makes sense. It might even make sense with Rondale more because he is Keenan Allen still good enough

to catch the football kind of like a Anquan Bolden that it wasn't ever speed. That was the reason he was good. It was route running. It was hands and toughness things like that. Maybe but if you're Keenan Allen, do you want somewhere where you could catch the ball or are you okay with just joining a team? That's really good, but you got to be wide receiver for that might be down to it. Yep. Purple Purgatory. I did see the deep dive on Ben Urasek from Bursich. I did see that.

It's I mean, that's interesting. Yeah. Like now I will say like, none of us know what it's going to look like when we get out there, but you're a sec caught my eye as well in, um, mini camp. Uh, he made a lot of catches underneath and looked like he had strong hands and was kind of a bigger guy. He kind of actually looked a little like Johnny Munt out there. So I could see that. I could see him being a guy, but we all kind of do this and you guys do it and we do. It's part of the fun of camp. Actually, it's what I'm writing about tomorrow for the newsletter, purple insider dot football sign up today. I'm going to be doing a camp journal every

day where it's everything that I hear and see that is interesting to me. I'm going to be writing purple insiderider.football. But I'm gonna write about kind of the magic of Mr. Mankato and why we love it so much. Because we all get to kind of pick a guy. And I guess, you know, Ben, you're a sexier guy. Some people love Silas Bold, like we'll see. You just never really know what those,

and that's the magic of training camp, I think. Let's see. Aaron, still surprised that they didn't draft a running back or bring in more UDFA running backs. Uh, I would bet that they might pick up a guy on cut downs. I thought that they would too. I mean, I suppose that if they had had more draft capital, they probably would have. But I am surprised that there isn't just a veteran guy who's competing. Maybe the issue with that is that if you're a veteran, you're looking, you might be waiting for somebody to get hurt and then you can jump on where if you come in

and you end up with Jordan Mason and Aaron Jones in front of you, you don't have much of a chance to actually play. And if you're a veteran, you're looking for someplace you can actually play. That could be it. Anthony says any idea that they bring back Gilmore or just letting him rest up? Well, if you're Stefan Gilmore and last year you waited until the end of training camp to play and then you played pretty well.

I mean, why would you come back and do training camp again? I'm sure that he's going to wait and see, and then decide toward the end of the summer if he actually wants, uh, to play again, but that will depend for the Vikings where they stand with the cornerback position. I thought Keenan Allen was good for the bears last year. It's just that he didn't have a quarterback who continued to find him. Dylan, yeah, Chandler is fine as an RB3 if they wanted to play him or if they were comfortable with playing him.

The fact that they became so uncomfortable with playing him that they had to go out and get Cam Akers and then we basically never saw him again. That makes you think that they could still look for an upgrade. But somebody was making the point earlier. I mean, when we're talking about RB threes and tight end threes, you're right that there's probably not 47 people who are better than Ty Chandler, but you might be looking for a veteran who could come in. If Aaron Jones was out for five weeks or something and you got to put the whole load on Jordan Mason and you don't trust Ty Chandler and then you got CJ Ham. You feel pretty restricted there. You feel like you're putting a heavy load on deep into the weeds with RB three, but that's

it. Look, I mean, they're in a position where they're always looking to try to get the best possible roster they can. So if they don't trust one guy in past protection and they don't think he's a great kick returner, like maybe there's somebody who is and they're always going to look for one step up. Uh, I am aware, uh, TLS that, uh, Dylan or I'm sorry, that Walter Rouse is the grandson of Vic Rouse because I wrote an article about it. And I sat down with Walter Rouse last year, uh, Google that purple

insider, uh, dot football, Walter Rouse. You'll find it. Uh, Vic Rouse scored the game-winning basket in What 63 and CA championship for Loyola and that team was? famous for having four black starters and They kind of made history there. So it is worth looking up. Yeah, hopefully it comes up into Google search my article on it Okay. Well, uh, let's see.

Yeah. I think, you know, Brad, you might have a choice. You might have a point here that baddie and Vaughn, the two undrafted free agents, like those could be the guys that we end up talking about halfway through training camp. So Maya Vaughn and Tyler baddie baddie has a chance to make it. He's going to be in the mix with Gabe Murphy, who was very productive in college and Bo Richter, who's a great athlete, made a strong first impression. Those are definitely the names to watch for a undrafted free agent. So anyway, all right. Well, I think that's a good look at the 53 man.

Great to have a crowd here tonight. I could tell by the crowd that you guys are pumped up for training camps. So every Monday night we do for those who are new watching the show, intern Maggie Robinson joins the show around this time. And we do Mondays with Maggie and she goes through the latest of things on her mind,

articles that she saw or things to break down throughout the league. So if Maggie is good to go there, we can bring her into the show. I'm seeing, I'm seeing black now, Maggie, you there? Oh no, I'm here. Where did your video guys? This camera is going to be the end of me. My God. What happened? Okay. Do you need a minute? going to be the end of me. My God. What happened? Okay. Do you need a minute? Pause. I'll be back. Okay. Maggie is alive, but for some reason the camera is not alive. So I'm going to take her out for a second. Last week, the camera mysteriously zoomed in and made her head enormous.

Um, yeah, yeah. No, I saw that, uh, Bursich is doing the eye in the sky and yeah, it's good. I mean the film breakdown is good. It's just one of those things where it's like anytime it's an undrafted free agent, I always kind of go, Hey, let's let's wait and see because we all get excited about undrafted free agents and then a handful of them ever actually make it and uh, and then we'll see from there Okay Camera does not seem to be working yet for maggie yet with this clay behavior. Yes our previous intern clay always seemed to have

Something going on behind the scenes. All right. Well we could get in a few more comments before maggie gets her camera working and maggie maybe before Maggie gets her camera working. And Maggie, maybe if that one's not working, maybe just go with the webcam from your computer. Think that'll probably work. Dusty says, that's how Mason got hurt last year is that the Niners overloaded him. So that's, and that's how delicate things can be, right?

When it comes to a roster and why depth can be so important is if Aaron Jones gets hurt Jordan Mason gets overloaded then all of a sudden the production isn't the same or he gets banged up And then you're talking about who's the RB three if you go around the league Yeah, there's not gonna be a whole lot of great RB threes that people can't wait to play but at the same time With Ty Chandler, we've seen a lot of him And I think we have a sense for what he is in this league, which is he can play Because he's explosive and he could be exciting and he could scoot and he can run and he's good with the football in his hands But the details matter like where you run matters be exciting and he could scoot and he could run and he's good with the football in his hands.

But the details matter. Like where you run matters. Can you block matter? I mean, you can't just put him in and run and have a run play every time or have him go out for a pass every time. This is an offense that asks the running back to block and his blocking numbers or is pretty much as poor And his blocking numbers are pretty much as poor as I can remember. This is an interesting one. Son of a Beaver says, would love Jamal Williams on this team. We'll see about Jamal Williams. I think I will see if he's even going to play this year with Jamal. I know he's a free agent still. He's very close with Aaron Jones.

Okay. Do we have? we do not. We have an M and an R. Can you hear me still, Maggie? Now I can't even hear Maggie. Okay. Okay. My advice would be then I'm gonna tell her

to log out and log back in. That's tech. Log out and log back in. And then we'll see if we can get maggie cj ham would be a stud running back yeah uh yeah yeah i guess uh every once in a while you know they used to do that where every once in a while they would surprise people with uh cj ham they just don't do that anymore. It's been a couple of years since they gave this surprise CJ Ham run. Bob says, should we bring in Kendricks? I assume you mean Eric Kendricks? Still a free agent. I don't know if he is going to continue to play or not, or if someone will pick him up.

But as of right now, the one role that I would have thought might have worked for him is what Eric Wilson has now. And that would be that I'm going to call Wilson LB three, but there might be somewhat of a rotation there with Eric Wilson and Ivan pace jr. Wilson was a good cover linebacker, but wasn't the best when it came to the run because he's undersized. He's actually kind of only a little bit bigger than Josh Mattel is, but they're not that different in size. Okay. Now I see Maggie. Now we go. There we go. Okay. Now we got you. Oh my God. Had to build up the tension for you guys. I'm here.

We had to get some fullback conversation in just before. So Monday's with Maggie, Maggie Robinson, currently at Syracuse University in grad school, previously a producer for the National Football League. So it is great to see you. What is this time, by the way, behind the scenes in the NFL? What is this time of year like? It's got to be chaos, right? So this time is really funny because, so I was there for two years and the first year I was there, this time was like, oh, let's get all our vacations in. And then the second year, they implemented the flag championships like three days ago. And so right when everyone was about

to have their family vacations, they're like, actually we're gonna ship you off to Canton, Ohio in the middle of July. And now you have to work in a tent full event. And then we're gonna go straight into the season. So this is a super hectic time. I have a photo of my desk around this time because I was coordinating all of our pretty

much TV operations. So the amount of stuff that I was shipping out, mailing, sending people, like organizing gear, getting our green hats, our game reps, everyone organized. I remember those were long hours, but so cool to do it. You know? Well, you know, I'm glad that, and I've seen some opinions on this, but I'm glad that and I've seen some opinions on this but I'm glad that they're investing a lot in the flag football because I mean the reality is that how many kids really have a chance to play in the NFL? The answer is not too many.

But how many people could enjoy being part of a flag football team? I mean, for me, just for example, you know, growing up, we didn't really have a football team as a high school is too small of a school. The team was bad. Most of the players had to play both sides of the ball. That's how few I mean, you're running out like a 22 person football team. So there was not a great situation. If we played any school larger than us, we just lost by 47 points is back. If that had been a flag football team, it would have been way more fun. The reason I stopped playing football after my eighth grade year is just because I

thought I'm going to die out here. Like there's they got these kids from these other schools that are beating us by so much. I can't do this, but flag football. I could throw the ball and catch it a little bit. There's a lot of people who don't really want to mash their bodies to death in high school who might have fun with that. So anyway, I just I saw that the other day. I saw some people be like, who cares or whatever. Look, it's that it's not about whether you're you're liking it.

It's about people who see it as maybe an opportunity to enjoy this game. So totally. I remember working last summer and I just saw one of the highlights. I think from yesterday, some kid made an insane behind the back twisting catch like stuck in his glove. Don't know how he landed it. And the thing that shocked me when I was there, and this sounds like NFL propaganda, I swear to you, it's not. It's simply my opinion. They're insane athletes for high school kids. They're doing some crazy things. And then I looked at the roster, at least for the girls side,

a lot of them are going on to play college soccer, college lacrosse. Like you have really high caliber athletes who are also getting to do this fun thing. And I also think from the girls side, like what a great avenue to have, to have another, now it's like a high school sanctioned sport. I think they're trying to get in all all states.

So I don't know. I'm a huge fan of it. But someone in the comments brought this up. The flag guys don't seem to enjoy the NFL guys coming in. You saw the quarterback, like chopping it up to Patrick Mahomes saying, oh, yeah, I can dish it out better than you. Like, don't come for my spot that I listen. I know it's a different game.

It's hard to compare yourself to Patrick Mahomes when you're a professional flag football player, just a little bit laughable, but who knows. I appreciate the confidence. I do. And it is a, you know, this is a different sport, but I'm sure if you saw NFL quarterbacks run seven on seven versus flag football quarterbacks, you'd be like, Oh, um, Sam Darnold running a seven on seven is insane. Right. With the amount of arm talent, arm strength that, uh, the anticipation, all that sort

of stuff, but it is a, is this different game? It's just, it's played differently. I didn't need the NFL players involved in it. Honestly, I thought it was fine if you want to have it as an Olympic sport. There's a lot of things, you know, table tennis is an Olympic sport. Might as well have flag football. I just thought, okay, it's fine if a couple of NFL players do this, but I didn't need that. I agree with you, though, as far as the like getting the women's teams involved in

and the girls teams in high school is a phenomenal way for everybody to be involved in the game. So anywho, what do you want to talk about? There's a lot going on out there as some camps are getting going. Vikings camp. We're going to get our first practice on Wednesday. So what is on your mind, Maggie, for Mondays with Maggie? First off on my mind is this is, this is a big day for you. This is like first day of school for you tomorrow. What are how are you feeling? Are you prepared? What's going through your mind?

How are you feeling this season? Like, where's Matthew at? You know? Yeah, it's a good question, because a lot of times going into training camp. I mean, you guys know, like I do this all the time. I do these shows in the middle of June and I could take a week off I want, but we were on vacation the other day and I did another podcast from my hotel room. Like I want to talk ball all the time. So I'm never too worried about that. The hours of training camp can

be a bit on the longer side for me. So just for example, get out there around noon, we got press conferences, then a practice, then post-practice press conferences, and then sometimes a podcast with another reporter, getting my notes together and everything else. Then we do the live shows every night. By the way, every night guys, live shows after practices. So I will be here and trying like I did today, bringing some new elements hopefully to the show, some, you know, trying like I did today, bringing some new elements,

hopefully to the show, some sounds, video, things like that. Um, but it's, it's a lot. So it does have that back to school type of feel. And there have been years before where I called them the pre-camp scaries, and if you talk to reporters around the league, we just know how much is about to happen. All the things that we've discussed for so long and all the different stuff that, and you just never know.

I have been surprised all the time, you know, in training camps of guys that emerge injuries that happen, storylines that, uh, the craziest one ever would be the quarterback and the head coach beefing over vaccination status was something I did not see coming when I arrived in 2021 for training camp that year. And that was very stressful on everybody. Things like that, that gives you the camp scares of like, I don't know what's going to happen. You know, that kind of thing. But this year there is a little bit of a different feeling for me where I kind of can't wait. I don't have that like, ah, summer's over. You know, my golf game was

just getting going and now I'm not going to be able to get on the course as much. It really is. This is, this is the thing. And you go back a few years, Maggie, I mean, I've been doing this for long enough to where in 2019, 2020, 2021, we talked so much about the rookie quarterback moving on from cousins, building the team, stacking it up. You've heard me talk about it a lot on the show recently as we get here, but imagine talking about something for five years and then it's finally here. But imagine talking about something for five years and then it's finally here. Like imagine that you had spent the last five years saying to yourself, I just can't wait to be at Syracuse doing my grad degree. And then you finally arrive on campus. You're

like, it's here. That's kind of how it is for this show. Because a lot of the listeners of this show, if, if you were a Kirk cousins diehard and you thought he was the best quarterback ever and you thought he was underpaid, you weren't listening to me. So the listeners of this show have been on board with this idea, this strategy and this plan for so long. So I feel like we're all doing it together. Like guys, it's here. Let's see what happens. This was like our plan. And when they hired quasi at a flamenca and he accidentally said to a reporter that Kirk cousins is a good quarterback, not a great quarterback. And you usually win the super

bowl with great quarterbacks. It was kind of a sign like, Oh, I think they get it. I think this group gets it. And that's also been such a long journey as well to go from an old kind of washed up roster that they were squeezing the last amount out of to then rebuilding it over three years. And we went into these last two seasons, like, what are they, you know, is it a transition year? How good can they really be? And you know, could they actually be bad in 2023? And then last year everyone thought they were going to be bad. And, you know, could they actually be bad in 2023? And then last year, everyone thought they were going to be bad.

And you know, it was a surprise when they weren't, but this is the first year in a long time where they've entered camp and we've said, no, I actually have really, really high expectations and a roster that can actually compete for a Superbowl. And that was something we just couldn't say for a long time. So short answer is, uh, is, uh, I'm ready. I'm very ready for this. Hell yeah. I'm fired up from that. Like let's go. Give me out on the field. Absolutely. So I was doing some research and some of you might've seen this

article drop. I believe it was earlier today. ESPN's Kevin Seifert, Kevin Seifert. Sorry, Kevin Seifert. Sorry, Kev, uh, dropped an article called Inside the Vikings plan for JJ McCarthy's lost rookie season. And he actually got some really good insider knowledge that I haven't seen. Obviously, everyone's written about JJ McCarthy. This is the most overplayed, over talked about article of JJ's injured. It's like a sophomore season, technically, what's he been doing? And you kind of get the same standard answers of like, yeah he's been

learning the game really well, he seems to be in the right headspace, great kid. The KOC likes him. Seifert actually got inside the room and I found this really interesting. So, quarterback's coach Josh McCown was working very very closely, he and KOC working very closely with JJ Dimkarty to essentially give him the mental repetition as if he was in practice even if he was just sitting on the bench watching or sitting in film sessions. So they were giving him what I can only describe as like a VR version of, I hate when my camera does this.

Guys, how do I, Matt, how do I fix it? Do you have the little, you did it again. If you have one of those cameras that if you go like this, it will zoom in, right? So I don't know, maybe if you go like that, do you have the app up like this should be an app and You should be able to zoom out. This is extremely funny. You're right in the middle of this whole thing

This is a super interesting story about the whole thing. Did you get it? No, okay, I'm gonna continue and you guys are just gonna see my go ahead go ahead Your go go a large head This I can't take myself seriously. Okay, so the two coaches really working closely Do you want me to move closer? Can do mine just tilt the camera right up here? Both of our heads are absolutely enormous. All right, so he had the There should if you have the app open for the OBS bot camera, there should be a button that you can find on the app that says

like zoom out. So sorry guys, I've had no camera troubles until the past two weeks. Let me, let me give you a second and pick up on what you were talking about. And yeah, we're all, everyone's rooting for you to get this right. Weird hand motions until it zooms out. Until it moves. Yeah.

Okay. So, uh, what they did last year was they really had an idea, it's getting even weirder, that like, they knew that their longterm plan was going to be for JJ McCarthy to be their quarterback. So they acted like it. They did everything that they possibly could, including on I think it was Saturdays. They had shout out to the audio listeners. Yeah, I know. I believe on Saturdays they would sit down him and McCarthy, KOC and McCarthy, and they would have like a meeting as if he was picking the plays that he liked for practice. That's that holding the mic like that. It's going to make it worse

because you're going to be moving the mic around and it's going to be, this is going to be making sounds. We'll just, you're just getting me up close. You know what? We've come to terms with it. You're getting me here. We've got Kevin Seifert in the, uh, in the chat here. Now just watching us melt down with your camera situation. It's fine. Giant head Maggie is totally fine, but we're going to have to figure out what hand motions that you did to screw that up. So, uh, as a Kevin Seifert is here in the chat, continue talking about Kevin's great art.

Kevin, you did a great job because you got some really good inside info that I had not seen in any other article. And what Matthew was just describing to the audience is that JJ McCarthy was essentially getting taken through the mental reps of being in practice, asking to list all the plays that he would do in this instance or do like watch Sam Darnold's essentially like a point of view from practice. Sam Darnold had a camera on top of his head and then that camera was shown to JJ McCarthy along with normal practice and game films and he would just watch that and study that as if he was in Sam's head.

So like I don't know how much more legit you can get other than fully being on the field. But to see that they were that behind him and that determined to make him as ready as they could. One of the pieces that Kevin mentions in here is he wanted to get all the small things taken care of in this essentially gap year. So then he doesn't have to think about them this upcoming year. He they're making him take quizzes on all the offensive coordinators and defensive coordinators of other teams to know like where they come from, what's their coaching style, how do they like to play? So he has all this background info that a lot of guys have to just like try to

absorb while learning a new playbook, while learning a new team, new players, new coaches. And he's just gotten to do this essentially like this has been his whole job is studying and school. So I reading this was like, it feels like JJ's in grad school. He's in a one year grad program. He's getting all his reps in and now he just graduated. He's onto his big boy job. Let him fly. No, I think that's exactly right. And Rob brings it up in the comments and is correct that when I hear he's a rookie quarterback, he's basically a rookie. And then you read Seifert's article and you go, no, he's not. I mean, he has so much experience already. It's not that different from any other quarterback who just sat there first year. And I think that's what it really tells you. The only difference, and this is something that I'm going to be watching closely for is JJ McCarthy has like out of a hundred

percent football knowledge of Kevin O'Connell's offense and how to play football just in your brain knowledge about the game, X's and O's. Let's say he's got 90% of what you would want from your NFL starting quarterback already in his brain and his body has 20% because he's gone through only the one camp in the mini camp, but he hasn't actually had practices. He hasn't actually played in games. There are some people who will say though that it's a little bit overstated. It's a little bit overrated because the actual practices in the season is where you would

be emulating a, uh, you know, the other team, the other team's quarterback, you're the, the scout team quarterback a lot of times. So you're not actually pretending to be Sam Darnold. You're pretending to be, you know, Kirk cousins when you're playing Atlanta or something. And I think that those reps are helpful. I think that they learn a lot through that, but a lot of it is when you don't play, it's, it is the mental part of it. So he's got to have the body part catch up to the mental part. And that's where the footwork, you can know the footwork, but does that mean you actually get it right? And as part of the, what, what do they call it? What do athletes call that?

The, um, muscle memory, right? Like getting it into the muscle memory where I make the comparison of me with golf sometimes where because of my schedule, I don't get to play a ton of golf all year round, I don't get to play seven, you know, I don't know, 400 rounds of golf a year or something. I get to play seven, you know, I don't know, 400 rounds of golf a year or something. I get to play maybe 30 and I watch enough YouTube videos where you would think I played 400 rounds just based on, you know, so I can watch the swings and I can think about the swings. I could VR the swings, but that's not getting it into my body. So how long is it going to take in order for him to get the muscle memory down?

But as far as knowledge goes, he is vastly more knowledgeable than any rookie quarterback coming into the league. Let me answer a quick question first and you can carry on. Sean says, as a reporter in practice, what are the rules around recording and taking pictures? Are your phones taken away? You got it. Hey, there you go. You got it. Good for you. We're back to normal. The phone's taken away. Wonder why there's no video live streams, only radio at camp. So the, every team has different rules when it comes to videoing. What our rules are is that we can videotape the warm-up portion so you'll see videos of

JJ McCarthy warming up but not the actual plays which makes a lot of sense that Kevin O'Connell would not want his plays that he's practicing to try to win football games posted on Twitter or on this livestream or whatever else and a couple years ago they tried to ask some of the fans to stop taking an incredibly, a good all 22 view of Kevin O'Connell's plays and the fans did not. So you're gonna see some of those show up from the stands from fans who have shown up.

Some of them have platforms that they've built of their own and they use that to kind of get ahead or, uh, of more online engagement, which I've always thought was kind of funny because if they're actually fans of the team showing up, then you're kind of not helping your team that you root for by videoing from the stands. But that's, you know, that's somebody else's problem to deal with. That's the point. So as reporters, we kind of have those rules. They're, they're fair. They're different from Mike Zimmer though. Mike Zimmer didn't care because I think he thought that we had a sideline angle and it's not exactly like we were going to be able to get the whole play, whatever. Um, you know, everybody has different

rules though. And that's kind of how ours work. So there's that we're not banned. They don't take, take the phones, hide them away. I visited Paisley park, by the way. Do you know what Paisley park? No, I've never heard of that. Okay. Paisley park is a Prince Prince. Yes. Okay. We got to go slow here on the show sometimes. Uh, so Prince, uh, built this studio in Minnesota. Prince is from Minnesota. And he built this incredible studio where thousands and thousands of songs and hundreds of artists have come. He recorded a lot of his own music there and it's incredible. And

it's now a museum after he passed away, obviously. And there's so much cool stuff there, but they actually make you put your phone in a pouch and lock it and they don't unlock it until the end of the tour so you go through the tour and you're looking at prince's house and you're going in the studio where he wrote all these great songs his guitars are there the motorcycle this goes too far back i'm sure but like the motorcycle from purple rain maybe you've seen the shirts. No way you've seen the movie Purple Rain. But that's Prince's movie. And so, you know, you go through there and they lock up your phone. So that's what I was envisioning is like every day we have to put them in some sort of vault or whatever.

That doesn't happen. No, we get to keep our phones, but there's just like an understanding of once the plays start, the PR will say, all right, that's it for filming. And that's what we do. A good recap. That's what we had to do in high school. Essentially. It was like you put your phone in a bag and you lock it away. Yeah. Schools are getting like really weird about that now. Like no phones. Anyways, we're back to the NFL. Training camp has started for two teams. Training camp starts for you guys tomorrow. This is a big, big week. The Hall of Fame game, let me remind you, is in 10 days on July 31st between Detroit and the LA Chargers. That's big time. Yes, it's the Hall of Fame game. Yes, it's a joke, but it's also football.

We haven't actually seen real football in a minute. So this is exciting for the squad. The Chargers and the lions have some updates that they did over training camps. So the Chargers just signed their seventh running back. This is a deep position now with, and I apologize if I pronounced his name wrong, Nahim Hines, who was formerly on the Colts and the Bills, but the catch here is that he hasn't played since the 2022 season because he was silly and blew out his knee on a jet ski accident and missed two years of NFL football. So

I did not know that that's how he got hurt. I knew that he got hurt. He was kind of effective for the Bills. Yeah, he was decent Remember him receiving 30 catches to touchdowns He really struggled. He had a kick return maybe kick return for touchdown. Yeah, I mean that's I Had no idea that goes under the Hall of Fame of bizarre injuries for NFL players Ben Roth is burgers speaking of motorcycles, it was in a motorcycle accident once upon a time. I had to miss some time. Uh, but Nahim Hines coming back to the league is sort of proof that what someone else said earlier

about how, Hey, like don't be too worried about Ty Chandler is RB three. We're talking about RB three here. It's like if a team is signed Naeem Hines after two years of being away after a jet ski accident, kind of tells you where the depth of that position might be a little bit short. And as we talk about, what could they get somebody else? Probably not a lot of guys to get, but Hey, that's a good point by Aaron that maybe they should sign one of the guys that the chargers cut. Who knows how many running backs that team could keep.gers cut. Hey, who knows how many, uh, running backs that team could keep? They signed. Well, they've also got the nausea Harris. I are they signed. They got a Marion Hampton in the draft this year. And then they got

a few kind of random guys who I hadn't really heard much about, but it's seven deep in there. Like that is, can you imagine a practice you get what? Like one rep every like seven, 10 minutes and you're just standing around. Well, it's probably, Oh, Marion Hampton gets all the reps and everyone else stands around is usually how that works. But, uh, yeah, the, uh, Najee Harris thing where he got hurt in an accident with fireworks on July 4th, second, that was another one. JPP Jason Pierre Paul blew off the fingers. And so then Harris getting an eye injury. Yeah, man, I guess they're, I guess they're glad that they drafted O'Marian Hampton.

Thank you guys so much. And you can't keep it together in the off season. This is like when you're playing youth sports and the doctors, like you have to sign this waiver that you're never ever going to get a trampoline or let your kid go to a trampoline park. Cause they're going to break every bone in their body. We should have have that but like in the NFL contracts of like you will not touch fireworks touch a firearm speed in a car or oh my god I'm just counting on my fingers at this point and it's hating me do this. I think you got to do this There we go. I'm seriously so sorry, you guys.

Oh, and I'm trying. There is a setting on this thing to turn off the hand motions. I know there is. And I also know that maybe it was brought up last week. And then I did not. So this is user error. Blame me. I can't complain.

Yeah, the Chargers are a team, though. They're playing the Vikings this year. I can't complain. Yeah. The Chargers are a team though. They're playing the Vikings this year that I'm fascinated by because I do think there's a legitimate chance when you look at their season last year and their defense was at the top of the league and they are fantastic running the football, using play action off of that, all the things Jim Harbaugh has done. There might actually be a chance that they win that division. I feel like it's kind of crazy to go there with Kansas City still in the division to ever say that anybody else could beat them. But that team is pretty stacked and they went and got Trey Harris in the draft. I thought that they still should have added a little more in terms of wide

receivers, but maybe there's a chance that Quinton Johnston takes another step. They did get Mike Williams and then he retired. So it has been a bit of a rough start here for the Chargers to their three days of training camp or whatever, having to put Najee Harris on IR and then having a player retire. But the point just being like that's a very strong roster all of the sudden with Jim Harbaugh and the Vikings have to play them on a short week. I think they play what, uh, who they play right before them. They play somebody hard before them as a Detroit. They play someone hard before them and then it's Thursday night football. Oh, the Eagles. They play the Eagles. Yeah. And then go right out to play the chargers. That's kind of one of those, like the season

will be defined in those couple of weeks. So I do have my eyes on the chargers. That's kind of one of those, like the season will be defined in those couple of weeks. So I do have my eyes on the chargers during this training. You mentioned some of the guys who retired, guess who else retired from the chargers? Finally Philip Rivers took him a while, took him four seasons of not playing five seasons almost to finally realize that he it's probably time to pack it up. His time is done. But if you guys have not seen his retirement announcement that the Chargers posted on their social media, highly recommend. They surprised him. They had him sign a one-day contract because he ended his career with one year at the Colts, I believe. And then all 16 others were with

the Chargers and they were amazing. I mean, obviously he had a very storied career, well loved guy. LA was his place, San Diego, I guess, obviously he had a very storied career, well-loved guy. LA was his place, San Diego, I guess, until they moved. But they signed him to a one-day contract to let him retire as a Charger. And it's just the most heartfelt. This guy didn't take a day for granted in his career. He gets teared up. You can tell he just loves the game and loves the guys who's around. I don't know. I just found it very heartwarming to be like, oh, he's going out the right way. I did wonder what took so long. Maybe it was still in there that maybe there'll be a team that gets their

quarterback hurt in the playoffs and they'll call me or something. There was, I think San Francisco, when Jimmy Garoppolo got hurt, there was a report that they called Big Ben to see if he wanted to come back and play. So this does happen. I'm sure when I'm sure when Kirk cousins got hurt for the Vikings in 23, there was at least a text exchange with Tom Brady, just to check, just to check. Are you sure that you're fully retired? You might want to.

So maybe Ro, uh, Rivers was still waiting for that. He was one of my favorite quarterbacks of the era because there's something, there's something fun about a guy who plays with so much, so much joy for the game, but is also so talented and so in command and it was his franchise and he was the guy. And I always felt like he just would do whatever it takes. Like, I think he played with an ACL torn in a playoff game that he's I'm still going to play anyway. And when he played the Vikings, this is an interesting thing to witness

because when he played the Vikings in 2019, he was washed. He was done with and the Chargers were falling apart. They weren't that good. And at the end of the game, they were losing. And Rivers just started chucking the ball deep on like every play and getting it picked off. It was just like, he must've thrown, I think three or four picks in the game, launching it down the field. You're right. But I loved it because he wasn't worried about his career stats, his quarterback rating. He was like, if I hit one of these and we score a touchdown,

maybe we've got a chance. So I'm going to give it a shot. And then I've told the story before on the show, but with Philip Rivers, after that game, they were playing in a soccer stadium and the Vikings fans had entirely taken over that stadium. The only chargers there were Phil Rivers kids. Like that was it. So it was all Vikings fans in that stadium. And you had to walk a long way to get to the Vikings locker room because it was a soccer stadium. So the locker

room was just in a different area. That was before they built the mega stadium. And Rivers came all the way over to give a jersey to the Vikings rookie center at the time who had gone to the same college as him many many years later and He like signed a jersey for him brought it all the way over and I just happened to be standing outside of the Vikings locker room and I was the only one out there I thought I was like sending a tweet or something and Rivers was standing there near me and He had to stand there for a while. Like he had to wait quite a long time He has somebody to go in and get Garrett Bradbury and he waited and then like like I saw the exchange was just so classy, so nice for

a rookie center who just happened to go to his college. Like little things like that, I think say a lot about, you know, Philip Rivers as a leader. And so I think when there's a guy who is flawed and came so close, but also just, you know, forges that bond with a fan base and so many other players and so beloved. It's just a really cool thing. And sometimes perfection can be boring in sports, right? Oh, well, Brady won all the time. Okay. Well, Brady was also kind of a bot. Like, yeah, right. No, he was. Yeah, right. Like he wasn't that interesting and he wasn't flawed and he wasn't, you know, so, No, he was. Yeah, right. Like he wasn't that interesting and he wasn't flawed and he wasn't, you know, so, uh, I always liked Philip Rivers for the people's quarterback.

Like, Oh, I can see myself in you, despite the fact that you're an outstanding professional athlete, but also we can relate on some levels. And I'm seeing all these comments and I do have to ask you, how many kids does this man have? Oh my God. I'm not joking. I think it's like 10. Wow. He had doubled it. Okay.

Congratulations. I mean, he could pay for him. Oh, naturally. He can afford him. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That's funny that if it was just his kids half the stadium. Yes, it was the Ifadi-Adenobo scoop and score game.

That's right. But yeah, everything I've ever heard about Philip Rivers is awesome. I will say though, how do we feel about the the one day retirement thing? I like one day contract. I would feel if I was him a little insulted. And I say that in the way of like, man, you couldn't have just kept me on as like a backup. And like, we could have like worked this out for my final year. Like there wasn't any way.

And then he even had I'm blanking on the guy's name, but like the team owner of the Chargers is escaping me right now. Face time him on the video talks about how impactful he's been. This is going to sound out of pocket. It's you know, like when you have the Make-A-Wish kid and you sign them like a one, a one game. Oh, wow. Wow. You really went there.

Where my brain is going. Yes, I do. I do know that. You know what I'm trying to say? Is it is it a little bit like, hey, sorry for letting you go there at the end. Here's your one day contract. I think there's just a little bit for me of is it kind of corny or is it just is it just a way to have positive PR for the day?

It almost feels like their PR team. Oh, we can make ourselves look really good going into this season. And that's by sending him off well and almost making him feel more respected than maybe he did when he left. And we can just like wash all over that and cover that up. That didn't happen. Maybe we're being a little on the cynical side for that. I think for for fans of Philip Rivers, a chance to celebrate him for one more day and have everybody say they're really nice things is, is nice. But for this one,

it feels a little bit distant from Philip Rivers. It wasn't like he retired from the Colts last year and then they did a one day retirement. It was a long time ago and then they did it. What was it? 2020 I think was, it was his last. Yeah. It was 2020. It was mid pandemic, pre pandemic that That. Right. What's been going on? Like, did he really think he was going to keep playing? I don't know. I mean, he looks like he's just a normal dude now, too. Like, he looks like he's been enjoying his life.

So I don't think he was going to pull a Joe Flacco at any point, but I guess he was waiting it out to see if maybe it could be. But a great quarterback and whatever he gets in terms of good things. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. We mentioned the hall of fame game, the other team, obviously the churches are playing Detroit. Alex and Zolani linebacker has been out with a hamstring injury and there's a lot of speculation as to like, Oh my gosh, is he sitting out?

Why is he not coming to practice? No, the guy's fine. Like you just crushed his fitness test a few days earlier. He has a hamstring injury. He's sitting out a little bit of practice. Dan Campbell said there's nothing really to worry about, but a lot of people got freaked out that they didn't see him on the field. People love the jump to conclusions, especially in training camp.

They do. The only thing is for the lions. So they just had Levi on was Zerky. I always mispronounce his name. I'm sorry for that, uh, that, uh, he tore his ACL and apparently he had been dealing with an injury with the knee and then it just got to be too much and they had to do surgery on the ACL. Uh, and then to have Anzaloni be hurt with the ACL, I'm sure for Alliance fans, it's like, is this going to be a thing again? I guess you do have to wonder a little bit about some of their practice and some of the, like,

how much they've put on these guys. Because if you watch that Hard Knocks from a few years ago, Dan Campbell's being Man Campbell and he's the, we're going to be tough and we're going to bite Nika and he's doing that. but they were having really hard practices. And at the same time, Kevin O'Connell by some folks is, Oh, is he soft? He's running these soft practices. But the injury reports don't lie when it comes to some of this stuff. And you just wonder about that. But also the number of games that some of these guys have played over the last few

years, when you go to the playoffs every year, guys get more on their body. And Anzaloni is such a big player for them that if he is in and out of the lineup again, that really impacts their defense. So I think that, I mean, a little bit of freak out, a little bit of freak out is probably right when they had so many injury issues last year that is it happening again. I mean, you, a few weeks ago, you asked me where I ranked the Lions in the NFC North and I had a pretty low, I think I had them, what was it bottom of the NFC North? It wasn't

top. I know that for sure. And I'm just saying with all the short turnaround and the grind that Dan Campbell has put them through, I would not be shocked if like you're saying injuries start to pop up, overuse, wear and tear. It's taxing. No one's saying that being an NFL player is easy, but I do think taking the KOC route of understanding that you cannot run people into the ground in June and July and then expect them to play for 18 weeks of a season, it's just not feasible. We always called this in the office. You're asking like, what's it feel like in the off season? It feels like you're about to sprint the marathon.

You can't sprint the marathon for an extra two months when you're already going that far, you know, you really have to be mindful. And I think it's called periodization. That's what all my sports coaches would always call it of do the right things, lift the weights, do the reps, run always call it of do the right things, lift the weights, do the reps, run the routes, but at the right time so that you're not burning yourself out midway through four weeks in like two months in, you know, and that may be some of it with the lions or it might've been, you know, just bad luck

last year. I don't know that can happen as well. Somebody falls on your leg. It's not, Oh, they shouldn't have played them in preseason or whatever. But I do think that, um, Oh, am I having some, uh, some, some synced up issues? Oh, hold on. Let me, uh, it's just me guys. Now you're gone and we'll put you back. Okay. Now let me know.

Thank you, Mark, for bringing that up. If the, uh, the voice got out of sync a little bit last week and none of you guys told me for like an hour. So let me know if, uh, if we're back on point there. Um, let's see, sloth brings up a lean McNeil banged up as well. So, uh, you know, that's just the, I think that's a major concern for the Detroit lions is have they put too much on those guys and even some of the office of linemen that they're running out have had injury issues and now they

don't have the depth on the office of line that they could have argued before. And they don't have Frank rag now who's going to play every injury under the sun like he seemed to last year. What did he, did he tear his pack or something and play through it? It was just crazy. Um, so that team, it does it, you know, they are the team that you have circled for, like this could be the calamity team. Like this could be the, everything just sort of comes apart.

They collapse under the pressure and then it goes from there. Still not, still not synced up, huh? Okay. Okay. Go ahead with your next thing and we'll see what I guess. Well, going over to the Packers in Green Bay, they just signed right tackle Zach Tom to a record setting extension. It's a four year, $88 million contract extension, which is the highest with the

highest signing bonus in NFL history for an offensive lineman at $30.2 million. That's a lot of money. This man is getting his bag. And I think we're just seeing in the past few years, like everyone's signing the next biggest extension, the next biggest deal. NFL agents are really going after this, like this if you will of I got my guy this big thing Look at this shiny award. He got he's making this much money I'm sorry. I was logged out for a second there Yeah, it's actually funny because you're right that and tell me guys if we're good here or

if I need to do one more thing, I've got another idea. But with Zach Tom, I think it's a very reasonable extension for somebody who is pretty good, who ranked really high by PFF last year. But the numbers that get put out there that, oh, this is what his contract numbers are, are just directly from the agents who want to maximize the highest number. And I think it was Andrew Brandt who said that an agent once asked him, Hey, can I just say that the contract was this many million dollars? And he, and he, he worked for the, uh, he was, is it for me too and he he worked for the he was worse.

Is it for me too guys or is this for Matthew? I think it's just for me. It was just for me last week. Let me let me log out real quick. Okay, we can talk Dallas though. Excuse me, because this is actually quite funny in my opinion. Dak Prescott is out here catching strays from Jerry Jones who looks a million years old up on that press conference Dias so Jerry was obviously in this PR meeting with the media answering some questions I don't really think he should be up there giving his opinion because he's not as Media trained perhaps as he should be so he was saying about DAC like just because we signed the guy doesn't mean we'll keep him and then went on all these

rants of like oh, yeah, he got injured and like that was his fault and Said he missed six games It was actually really four and he was just throwing Dak under the bus left and right in this press conference up there next to shoddy it and I think it was TJ or JJ watt one of the watt brothers retweeted this and said like think it was TJ or JJ watt. One of the watt brothers retweeted this and said, like nothing better than getting absolutely dragged by your, your owner while you were doing everything in your power to work for the guy. Dak subsequently retweeted that.

So just some fun beef before we actually get into training camp. They're not there yet. I don't believe. It's gotten a little bit weird with Jerry Jones recently. It's sort of like everybody has been there at some point where you have a relative that probably shouldn't drive anymore. And you know, they might end up just sort of not remembering where they are and they take a wrong turn and they end up 50 miles away from home thinking that they were going to the grocery store. At one time, actually

when I was working at a grocery store years ago, I walked outside to go get some carts and my car had been hit by another car. I was like, I'm parked. What the heck happened? And it was an elderly lady who mistaked one pedal for the other and slammed into my car. Oh, we're back. We're synced. Okay, great. Um, and that's kind of how Jerry Jones, I think has run the, okay, good. So next time guys, remember this, just tell me and I'll log out and log back in and we'll be good. Um, I think that Jerry Jones has gotten to the point where they need to take the keys away because back

in the day, many, so many years ago, Jerry Jones would play these games with players. And famously he was holding out on paying Emmett Smith and they started a season and they couldn't run the ball and they lost a couple of games. Then they had to pay Emmett Smith a ton of money. He's been playing this game for a really long time, but he's always had this kind of cockamamie theory that if he plays these games with the contracts and he stretches it out, that they're going to be in the, uh, like, uh, headlines all

the time, so they're going to be in the headlines all the time. And that's what he wants. Like he wants the Dallas Cowboys being talked about it in the headlines. Because again, once upon a time, this would have mattered that getting the Cowboys to be popular and getting them to be, you know, getting attention and TV time and reporting that would have been really big for them because the NFL was not where it was. And when Jerry Jones took over the Dallas Cowboys, they were a wreck. They were like the worst franchise in the entire NFL. They

were like that bad of a franchise when he took it over and he made them into this behemoth most still, I think the most watched team in the entire NFL. And that used to be something that, that he used to do. And it doesn't work anymore or make any difference anymore. Like the Cowboys are going to be in the conversation regardless of what you do. And all that he's done by dragging out these contract things is make it so much worse. Like he, it's, he is the one that is the reason that they had to pay Dak Prescott, the biggest contract in the NFL. It was his fault.

Yeah. They ended up doing that. I think it's ridiculous. I just looked up his age too. The guy's 82. At what point do we say maybe leadership at the highest level is not for you. You've had a great run. You I'm sure at one point in your career,

were a very good businessman. That is no longer, let's pack it up. Have your 16 kids come in and run the organization as they already are. Disperse the love a little bit. Maybe like pull in some other family members. We know it's a nepotism business, but I don't know. I think at some point, like who's gonna be the person to tell him to step down though. Does someone else have that kind of influence and who is that?

I don't think that it's ever going to happen. I don't think that he will ever step down. I mean, until if he has health issues, I think would probably be the time that he does it because he's just been in charge of this franchise for so long. And I just can't even imagine the reporters of covering the Dallas Cowboys where every game the owner will come out and talk to the reporters and just say whatever. And if you're the coach, if you're the general manager or even his, his son, the president of the team or something, but if you're right, if you're a the president of the team or something. But if you're right, if you're a decision maker on the team who is not one of his

kids, you just gotta be like, what are we doing here? We are just a circus now at this point. And the thing that I think has happened to the Cowboys has been a, a, like a pet theory of mine about the Cowboys because they've had rosters that could win the Superbowl. Totally. I think this came to me when they were playing the Packers two years ago and the Packers just dismantled them. Aaron Jones was unbelievable in that game and Jordan Love was great. And by the first drive, Dak Prescott was yelling his receiver or his receiver was yelling at him. And I just think that that pressure starts with Jerry Jones. They have the huge fan base, but it starts with him.

He puts them in the negative spotlight all the time, nonstop. And eventually that pressure just breaks them. Whether it's Tony Romo dropping a snap that, you know, he could have won the game or late interceptions or whatever. I think it just gets to them after an entire season of nonsense. whether it's Tony Romo dropping a snap that, you know, he could have won the game or late interceptions or whatever. I think it just gets to them after an entire season of nonsense with him. And it's happened with the Vikings before where they've had very dramatic seasons. They've gotten into the playoff race and the pressure just wears everybody down. I don't know that Jerry knows any other way to do it, but this is the guy somebody brought. I mean, this is the guy. So he hasn't changed that, of ran Jimmy Johnson out of town after Jimmy won two Super Bowls with

him. So what happened? Wait, what happened there? Uh, I don't gosh, there's going to be a documentary about it. I think on Netflix, I'd have to think about there's been other like chronicling of it. I'd have to think about the details of it, but it was basically like a clash of egos between Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson had won two super bowls. And then, uh, they just got rid of, uh, Jimmy Johnson. And like, they didn't even, they didn't even make it right between them for like many, many, many years after that. And then, um, it was, uh, what Barry Switzer who came in and won the next

super bowl with the same roster and not Jimmy Johnson, who could have won another one. So the point just being like, this has always been a Jerry Jones thing. And it's like the, the biggest person in Dallas always has to be him. And then everybody else gets to be second place and every he's always been kind of cheap too, which is weird because that's the weird part. Why is it so tight fisted? This man has millions and this is his whole brand is to bring in the good players and to pay them what they're worth. So they actually say so that your team's continues to be good. That one's always

blown my mind of like what you have the most. Why are you doing the least? That's your counterintuitive. And you guys are right. Jimmy wanted to run the team his way and Jerry Jones was unhappy that Jimmy got all the credit. And yeah, even though Jimmy Johnson was the one that made the best trade, unfortunately, the Vikings were on the wrong side of it. The best trade of all time. This may be another Vikings history lesson you need to know. I'm guessing. I'll buckle up. I'm here. Oh no. Just before the season, we're talking about the most hype and happiness. Well, once upon a time there was a lot of hype for the Minnesota Vikings because they traded for a running back named Herschel Walker, who at the time was a great running back for

Dallas. He was a kick returner, did a lot of stuff, caught passes, was a legend in college, like an all time great college player. And the Cowboys were not that great of a team. So Jimmy Johnson decided that he could replace a running back if he could convince another team to give him a bunch of draft capital. So the Minnesota Vikings felt like they were a running game away from being a Superbowl contending team. So the Vikings decided to trade for Herschel Walker, this running back who ultimately ended up not even playing very well for the Vikings was kind of a replaceable player. And the Cowboys got all these draft picks that resulted in Pro Bowlers,

Hall of Famers, all pros, and built the foundation of the dynasty Dallas Cowboys off of this trade. So, it is known as the worst trade of all time, but Deshaun Watson may have helped that. I mean, that one's hard to talk. Yeah, yeah, they messed that one up. Talking about people and owners and coaches who are tight-fisted

The last team I want to mention in this like wraparound from the NFL the Bengals still have not paid Shamar Stewart He is the only first-round draft pick who is still unsigned and apparently it's because I know I talked about this previously But I just find this shocking. The season is almost here. Can you not come to a conclusion? I know that his agent is very, I'm sure, like sticking to his word and sticking to his guns of we need to get this language in here where it's guaranteed. But especially with everything you've seen come out with the NFLPA about guaranteed contracts, they're not going to give this rookie an insane guaranteed contract with like all these stipulations on the off chance.

Like he goes to prison or he can't play for a year or X, Y, Z. He's a rookie. Prove yourself and maybe that's like the old fashioned hard nose version of it, but prove to me that you are worth my time, energy and money in the NFL. I know you're good in college. That's why I drafted you 17th overall, but I don't know what you look like against the guest guys. So I just am a little shocked that no compromise has been drawn here between the two teams. Yeah. So this is a thing that's come up over the last couple of years is first rounders

and now second rounders were trying to fight this fight as well to get the entire contract guaranteed even if the player is cut before the fourth year. I think that that's, that's it. That's really the battleground. And now I haven't paid the closest attention to this issue, but the one thing that stands out is who his agent is. His agent also represented Delvin Cook a few years ago and the Vikings negotiations with Delvin Cook for an entire summer turned into a clown show. Really? Yeah, the agent constantly sending,

including myself, text messages to all the reporters, trying to get the media on his side. Some crazy quotes coming out, which I noticed today in the Bengals thing. So then I texted a Bengals writer that I know and I was like, Oh, I can see that you're going through the same thing that happened with us back in 2020. I think that his agent style, call it is a little bit too out front for a lot of people. And I think if I had to guess they're having some issues

with some of that stuff and probably the communication with him as much as anything. And if the Bengals haven't done this for anybody else, then they're not going to do it for him. And I think that's part of the issue is that some other guys have gotten this, you know, JJ McCarthy got this, the, the fully guaranteed, but that's a quarterback. I don't know if other 17th overall picks have gotten it fully guaranteed or if he is the only one, but if you're the Bengals, you're probably saying we've never had this problem before. So why don't you just take the contract and Stewart is just making himself, I think look worse and worse. Just play football, man. Just play

football. Yeah. I think it was the team owner. Yes. Just play football, man. Just play football. Yeah. I think it was the team owner that came out and it said in the article that he took a long pause and then he said, this is silliness in regards to the Shamar Stewart thing. And then I think it was either player ops or player personnel. Someone on the Bengal side went into a more lengthy description of like, yeah, he I get that he's standing behind his agent and his agent is doing all the one talk like all the talking. But it's alluding to the fact that at some point, like you're saying, get on the field, show me what you're worth. Show me you actually want to be here because right now it looks

like you care more about the money than playing football. And that's a bad look. I'm also worried about his reputation going into his actual career. Art, do you want this tag along with you as a player that you bring a lot of baggage in the form of your Asian? That's some BS that a lot of coaches and teams don't want to deal with. Yeah and look you know some of you have mentioned that the guarantees for the previous year's draft slot are some, what they're offering is lower, which it's weird to me that they can have this draft slotting, but not the guarantees, I guess, a standard part of it. Um, and Anthony said that, uh, the Bengals are adding new verbiage.

So, uh, maybe they are making it more complicated. The Bengals are also, so, you know, I, I, all I'm saying is my experience with the agent who represents this guy is that he might not be the easiest to deal with for the team. Uh, at the same time, like don't, don't let me, you know, don't let it think that I don't want the player to get paid what everyone else is getting paid. If you're getting, if everyone else is getting those guarantees, then yes. And the Bengals, you talk about a historically cheap franchise. The Bengals have been a very historically cheap franchise. So they've got this going on and they've got Trey Hendrickson still holding out when now Trey Hendrickson is underpaid by about $20 million. When you look at what TJ Watt just got, and when you look at what Miles Garrett got, and he's up there with those guys in sacks.

So the Bengals still kind of battling this long reputation. I'm just pointing out that this might be a situation where the player doesn't have a whole lot of leverage and he's just got to end up signing this contract. And he's setting himself way back here by not doing OTA, not to a mini camp and all that stuff. But it also doesn't, not to a mini camp and all that stuff. But it also doesn't, it is a practice facility that's under an overpass. Yes, it is. And like from the same side, like the Bengals, you got to get this taken care

of, like your team had a pretty good off season in signing T Higgins and keeping Joe burrow happy. And now you're going to play these games with these guys over the remaining money that they should probably be getting paid. So, I think both sides with the Shemar Stewart thing and the Bengals are looking not great for not being able to get this worked out when everybody else has.

That's probably the big takeaway here. If everybody else has gone through this conversation and everyone else has worked it out, why can't you guys? It looks like maybe the issue is you then. And again, I don't know the details. I'm not Chamara Stewart, but it is a little, I will say also the bangles in the terms of, from the league office business perspective, also a little outdated, also a little slow to come to terms with new technology, a little stuck in their ways, if you will, and the way they do their PR and their press and they deal with the media. It's just interesting to see the way that it affects all operations of a team in the

way that like short Jerry Jones has his rule and you see that how he rules affects all parts of his team. The bangles from this all the way down to like the way they handle their PR staff and whatever it's a little. They have their ways about doing things and no one's going to change that until they change that, you know? Okay. So Sean says, uh, they decided to add a clause. If you are late to practice, they could void your guaranteed

money. Okay. Well, if, if that's what they're trying to late to practice, they could void your guaranteed money. Okay. Well, if if that's what they're trying to add to it, like late to practice, late, late to practice, make me run some labs, have me do some wind sprints. Like maybe find me $500. Right. Right. That's kind of crazy. Okay. A lot of legalese too So I, there was something about a Marius Mim. Some of, some of the Beavers just brings this up. First round pick, uh, in 2024, got his contract guarantee with no offset language to take away the guarantee.

If he got into trouble, right? So I think that was the argument that they were trying to play off of is, Hey, this is pretty, a pretty accurate comp. What gives? Why did he get it? Why not? I see. So does that mean that they think Stuart's going to get in trouble? Are they concerned about that? Is that a read? Because one of the quotes in the article that I saw literally said, they're trying to get a guarantee if for whatever reason he goes to prison, they use going to prison as an example in this article, which feels like,

are we all missing something? Is there background that we don't know? I don't know. Again, I don't want to throw the poor guy under the bus if it's not like that, but. Okay. Anthony says it's a morality agreement. Okay. I can understand that. It sort of reminds me of like the Kyler Murray has to watch tape thing that's in his contract. So again, we should put in there. Don't use fireworks. Don't speed. Don't probably, it actually probably is. Yeah. And in a lot of those contracts, those things are in

there that they can void the contract for certain behavior. You just don't really see it very often because then it becomes like a big legal battle that nobody really wants to have that kind of thing. So yeah, Aaron points out, don't draft those players if you have those concerns. Right. If you can't sign a guy without signing something that says, you know, if you go to prison, we can void your guarantees. Maybe that's not the guy for you. I don't know. You're right. That's what I mean, is that the entire situation just seems like it's both sides not being able to work out

something that everybody else can. Right. So it's a little confusing as to what's happening behind the scenes and maybe we don't know about. All right. Well, what else we got? Is that, is that our rundown? That's our rundown.

I mean, if we want to hang out for a little bit longer, I have another one for you. So I thought it was fitting. I'm turning 25 soon to give you my reactions to the all quarter century player list from Sports Illustrated. They brought together a bunch of writers, senior editors, and drafted this list. I would love to go through some of the... I kind of give a breakdown of superlatives. In a high school yearbook type of style, this is the guy who's most likely to here's a guy XYZ. I have a few I'd like to break down with you. This one, you know how like my super my superlative when I was in high school, not too

my own horn was most likely to go to the Olympics. Did I achieve that? No, but I felt really cool at the age of 17. And that's all that matters. So this one is most likely to go to the Super Bowl, aka the guy that you'd be stupid not to include Mr. Tom Brady. He's top of the list and I think top of the list for every reason you can imagine. Seven Super Bowls, five Super Bowl MVP's, three NFL MVP awards. Most records were passing yards, passing touchdowns, all the things. He is the goat end of story, but I had to throw him in there because like,

how do you not make a list of the past 25 years and not include Tom Brady top? I think it would be anybody's pick as a quarterback. So it's a top, it's a top 25 players. The last 25 years voted on by a bunch of different writers. I do wonder if anybody said Peyton Manning as opposed to Tom Brady. This used to, it used to be a thing during some of Manning's great years where they didn't win the Superbowl, but he put up all time, great numbers. And then before Brady was putting up huge numbers, there would kind of be some Peyton Manning people who were more on the

analytics side who were like, he's putting up way bigger numbers than Tom Brady, who would kind of be some Peyton Manning people who were more on the analytics side were like, he's putting up way bigger numbers than Tom Brady, who's kind of game managing. But then Brady had his Oh seven season with Randy Moss and threw for 50 touchdowns. And then we just kind of decided, you know what? Spray the guy is probably the best. And there really isn't any other quarterback you would say other than my homes or other than Manning, I think are the only two ones in the air of Tom Brady. But Mahomes will be when we do the, I don't know, maybe,

maybe by then there will be a conversation of like the 30 year team. If he makes a couple of more super bowls between him and Tom Brady, but nobody can get there yet. Yeah. So I failed to mention this. This is important. They ranked the top three players essentially at each position or each position group. So it did go Tom Brady, first and foremost, second team, Patrick Mahomes, third team, Peyton Manning, others receiving votes as in one vote, Lamar Jackson, don't sleep on our guy. But no, so it is exactly like you're saying Patrick Mahomes is up there, Peyton Manning's up there. And then another thing they said in this article,

terrible time being all time great quarterback. If you weren't actually standing on your head every single game, because you're just going to get forgotten about in the history of all time. QBs. The Superbowl thing is difficult to deal with for my analytics brain because reasonably speaking, we should not evaluate quarterbacks just on super bowls. That would be insane because it's like you can, you know,

Trent Dilfer won a super bowl, Nick Foles won a super bowl. Those guys aren't better than Dan Marino, right? At the same time, I think you can let it enhance if a guy has had enough performances and enough opportunities and got his team to the Super Bowl multiple times. And I say this just about, you know, Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson, Rodgers got one Lamar Jackson, though, if he gets a Super Bowl and then you look at the rest of his resume, oh my gosh, like he belongs with those guys, but he needs to get that he does. And with that position, having so much weight for whether you win or lose every single game, I don't think it's wrong to when we evaluate resumes to say, well, you know, Lamar and Patrick

Mahomes, statistically speaking, expected points added speaking or whatever might be pretty similar. But if Mahomes has multiple Super Bowls, it's sort of like Ty goes to the guy who won the stuff. And I would have to say that for him. But I don't know. We, we agree that Lamar gets one at some point, right? Like I think the same thing will happen with Josh Allen, that both of those guys will get agreed. So you took the words out of my mouth. I was about to say, Josh Allen, we're talking about this last week, two guys who that's the last thing they got to do. They are so close because as you're saying stats wise, they have it.. You can you can tell by watching them. They are phenomenal quarterbacks. They don't have that final piece and as much as it is kind of it doesn't make sense of

it's one game. Why are we putting so much weight to it? It's also like the most important game if you still can't get there. it says something about you and you're supposed to be the one leading the team. And if you can't lead the team to a Super Bowl, then you must not be that great, which is so faulty. But that's how all of our brains go. Yeah, and it's just when we're talking about like really splitting hairs here, any person would take any of these quarterbacks. We're talking about Philip Rivers. If JJ McCarthy turns out to be Philip Rivers, they'll be retiring his number and having a sappy, you know, whole celebration of his career. At some point you would dream of that.

But if you're comparing Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning or something, you gotta point out that Manning was able to win two Super Bowls. This is so random, but it's making me think, why are the Manning brothers in every commercial you have ever seen on your TV now? Because every time I look up, I swear to God,

I'm like, why is he in another Allstate ad? How is he advertising a beverage? I don't get it. I feel like he's turning into the Shaq. Truthfully, I've seen Shaq on more Gold Bond commercials than I have seen him play basketball games. That's insane. If I had to guess, it's because people of the age

that are going to the grocery store the most are probably people who grew up watching shack or Peyton Manning. I would guess if you're, if you're 35 and you've got a family and a house or whatever and all that stuff, 40, then you probably watched a lot of Peyton Manning. So he's a big celebrity. When I was a kid, Joe Namath was on a bunch of commercials and I was like, this guy, like, I don't know, what did he do? What has he done? You know, and then your dad or uncle be like, well, let me tell you the story of Joe Namath. So yeah, we all do this. They also Anthony points out is true. They also are fun.

They are hilarious. Yes, they're great. They're production company to they know true. They also are fun. They are hilarious. Yes. They're great. They're production company too. They know how to make fun of themselves. Omaha productions, they got a good vibe. So what else we got from this list? Best couple, best couple, but we're only gonna look at the man and the best couple

and guess who it is, but you can't guess. It's Travis Kelsey. He was top of the list for tight ends, but I find this one quite interesting because Gronk is up there. And also, Kittle is fast approaching in my mind. This is a tight top three race. And Gronk has even come out and obviously said it in jest and like a Gronk way of like, oh, well, Travis might have more like broken my records, but he broke them in the postseason. Like he never actually

eclipsed me in the regular season and trying to hold on. But truthfully, in stats, Kelsey leads Gronk. I think they're different types of players and they're both big personalities, which is arguably why they're more in the spotlight and why this is a bigger ego beef than it probably should be. But interesting to look at the George Kittle comparison, because I think he's played eight seasons. Kelsey's what in his 11th or 12th. If kiddo stays on the track and the trajectory that he's on, I think he rises quickly to the top of this list.

He's just been so prolific. For me, the most dominant player, which is not, you know, the, just the resume is Gronk. And it's not just because he could catch the football, but also he was an unbelievable blocker, which in my mind, tight end hat that has to matter. Travis Kelsey is an incredible receiving tight end. I don't know how many years it's been since he's really blocked anybody. And look, the biggest moments he's been there, he talked about the clutch and so forth, the 13 seconds thing against Buffalo, where he just kind of goes over to my homes and says, I'm going to run this route. I don't even care what the play is. I'm going

to run this route. And their chemistry is truly special. I would say the same with Gronk and Tom Brady, but it just the dominating run blocking because Gronk is so enormous of a human being. That I think I think is, is way up there. Um, and we're, and for only, you know, we're talking about the last 25 years, most of these guys have shifted toward being receiving tight ends. It's that way for TJ Hockinson. And that's what makes Kittle stand out to me as someone where I agree with you that he probably doesn't quite get enough credit because they have a lot of playmakers, but he's a phenomenal blocker. Like that matters a lot as well. So I would try to factor that in there. Yeah. Excuse me.

I will say, I think Kelsey's position has also been helped. I will be the first to say it, by his girlfriend. Yeah. Some extra PR, some extra press when she's doing world tours and it happens to be at, you know, it goes a long way. We were working with Box that season. We knew we were having conversations of how many times

do we show her in the box? How many times is too many times? Yes, we tracked a lot of increased viewership in women my age. It didn't hurt. And it doesn't hurt this argument because it just puts him on another stratosphere of popularity. I don't think he would have one of the most popular podcasts in the world if he was just the regular chiefs tight end. Yeah. My God. I don't have anything against it. Some people got very upset with that was a, that was a topic for a while. People got really angry. Stop showing her in the stand. Like, I don't know. Like what are we worried about? Yeah. You're not, you're not going to miss the extra point. I promise.

Right. I promise you, we're going to put the camera right back down. Calm down. You're missing one like ad read. We're actually saving you. Yeah, it's kind of funny, but I mean, uh, we weren't talking about the all time greatest tight ends just on this SI list of the last 25 years. So Sharp wouldn't be in there. Uh, Antonio Gates though, I think deserves also to be in that conversation as well. Yeah. Um, next on my list is best to bring home to mom.

And this means best player and best character. And this is Matthew Slater. He's a special teams guy, which means he's more normal, less jockey than your average football player, more intelligent in the way like your kickers are a little quirky and weird. Your special teams guys kind of fit into there, you know. He was exceptional, went to three Super Bowls, three Super Bowl championships, 10 Pro Bowl selections, first team All-Pro twice. I mean, the guy just did it all in his spatial awareness and the way that he had to be double teamed or double man coverage when he

was on the field just threw teams off to the extreme and as I was saying best to bring home to mom because he won the Bart star award in 2017 and Just was highly respected for his leadership in the locker room on the field the way he interacted with everybody All around great guy and what I like the great sportsmanship attitude. He had Anthony I agree on Tony Gonzalez attitude he had. Anthony, I agree on Tony Gonzalez. Probably the, I mean, I'm thinking that the lack of his team's really getting there, which is not his fault.

But when we're talking about these kind of tie breaks, Atlanta and they're one play away from getting to a Superbowl and Kansas City was close a bunch of times that he did. He gets Super Bowl. I don't think he did. And maybe the blocking was thrown in there. I don't know. But you're right. Tony Gonzalez at the time when he retired, a lot of people said he might've been the best tight end of all time. Um, as far as Matthew Slater, I love these types of players.

And I think in the hall of fame, one issue that they have a little bit is they've put in a couple of kickers and punters, but then you're not going to maybe put in Steve Tasker, who was considered the greatest special teams player ever before Matthew Slater came around. He's not in the hall of fame and he made the pro bowl a million times and he was a punt returner, but he was also the gunner and things like that. Are they going to put Matthew Slater into the hall of fame with all these pro bowls

that he's got to his name, which I don't know if there's any player who's not in that has 10 pro bowls, but they've got a lot of kickers who are really good that might not go in. They've got a lot of punters who might not go in and then they're making the hall of fame like smaller with fewer guys going in each year. So I don't know. I want, I want a special wing. I want a special area of the all time.

Great specialists, the all time, great long snappers. Let's get those, let's get those guys to recognition. Nobody, nobody's winning these games that are long snapper guys. So at least, uh, maybe some recognition. No, I'm all for that. We should write a pitch to the hall of fame and Ken and say, hello, new wing named after Matthew collar, please for the special teams players, give them the respect they deserve named after Matthew Slater would be fine. Oh, that would be good, man. I miss that. That door was wide open for me and I didn't walk through it.

Maybe you're, maybe you're getting to this. Was there any Vikings on this list, by the way, just out of curiosity? Uh, not that I was seeing stand out in the top first teams of who they were listing, you know, cause it goes first team, second team, third team, receiving votes. First team, no, very few, if truly any, to be honest with you. It was a very long list, I won't lie to you.

I'm not gonna try to. But is there anyone that you saw on this list or that you think should have been on or anyone in the comments? Like, obviously you're talking about Antonio Gates. Is there someone that you're really impassioned that this man should have been on here? We're not giving him the credit he deserves. Put him on this list. So Moss was on their first team, Brandi Moss. So he was on there. So at least there's that's okay. That was the one I was like, wait, Moss has to be there. Adrian Peterson made the second team, which I think

LaDani and Tomlinson. So they've got LaDani and Tomlinson over Adrian Peterson, which I think is fair. Tomlinson was a better all around running back. And I don't think that there is anybody else on the list that includes the Vikings. They really, oh, Steve Hutchinson was the second team guard. That is deserved. I overlooked him. That was just a just scrolling through. That's OK.

Maybe it was just so obvious. Maybe you thought of him as a Tennessee Titan. That was the problem. That was the correlation in my head. He's tied for they got three guys up there. Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Calvin Johnson, all first team. Those make sense. Jared Allen got second team.

He's going into the hall of fame this year, so I would, I should hope so that he was at least part of that. Let me see if there's anybody else. You know, the guy that I would put in that I think is the most underrated cornerback that does not get in here. So Patrick Peterson briefly a Viking, of course, most people would think of him as an Arizona Cardinal, but he made Patrick Peterson made third team. The guy that I would have in here. Oh yeah. Well, okay. Anthony brings up a great one. Kevin Williams, six time all pro should have made that. Yeah. I, I agree sloth that, you know, Tomlinson over AP is correct. Is Antoine Winfield not see junior Antoine Winfield senior.

Who was the Vikings cornerback and played for the bills as well. Harrison Smith was an other receiving votes. Harrison Smith. Ooh. Tyron Matthew, who I am a huge fan of got on this and not Harrison Smith. I don't know if I would have done that. I don't know if I would have done that. I think I would have put Harrison Smith, but Antoine Winfield was a little bit before the era that we had all this data to work with. And he played only a couple of years where there was, um, like numbers to show how dominant of a corner he was. And it was just at the end of his career and his numbers were phenomenal. But if there were numbers like that for coverage, for tackling quality, things like that through his

entire career, I think anyone who saw him play would have said he was one of the best. But before that, it was mostly just interceptions that people focused on, which can be a little random or you could be a bad corner, but get interceptions because you just kind of, you know, play all out for the picks kind of thing. You know, uh, cherry pick for the picks. It's if you do that, okay, well, maybe you're not as good as somebody who plays a game where they never throw in your direction and you're a great tackler.

So Winfield has always been to me one of the most underrated. Yeah. And again, I like nothing against Tyron Matthew. I think he's great, but I think Harrison Smith is a little bit more, I mean, he, you know, I don't know. Probably one of the underappreciated guys because he's quiet. Like he doesn't have a podcast, he doesn't put a lot on social media He until recent years He was kind of a hard guy to like pin down as far as you know, not not that he wasn't Available in the locker room, but I mean just his personality was kind of like quiet that kind of thing

Where Matthew got known as the honey badger early in his career and his, you know, dynamic player. I think I would put Harrison a little out of it. You should let the writers know. Absolutely. Send in your submission, the letters to the editor. Well, at least he got another receiving vote. So at least there was one person who included his name. This is true. This is true. That is all I have for you today. Apologies to everyone who watched

this for the horrendous camera struggles, but this was really fun. Thanks for having me back. We fought our way through the adversity and apparently my mouth not matching up with my video again. Again, guys, if that happens, let me know right away and then I can fix it. But I appreciate that. So great stuff, Maggie. Thank you for all of your work and preparation for the show. And the next time we talk, we will have had Minnesota Vikings practices starting Wednesday, guys, Wednesday night. So tomorrow look for myself and Andrew Kramer breaking down the press conference from Quasidaw, Fomentza and Kevin O'Connell. And then on Wednesday, the

first practice, Dane Mizutani and I will have a recap right after that. And then I will go live and be live throughout the entire, uh, every practice, after every practice throughout the entire time that there is training camp. So there's a lot coming folks, make sure you, uh, you know, stay up to date. So thank you, Maggie. And thank you everybody for watching slash listening and we will see y'all very soon. Oh Wait, I didn't let her say football. Hold on. Go ahead football. Okay. There you go Football