Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A real Trey Lance Vikings rumor?

Episode Date: April 20, 2023

Matthew Coller and intern Haley discuss NFL Network and PFT reporting about teams calling the 49ers about Trey Lance and discuss the Vikings connected to him. Is Lance a good idea? What are the other options? How does the timeline play into it? What are the drawbacks or concerns? Plus more Haley's Heroes -- the analytics players of the 2023 draft Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here, along with intern Haley. And Haley, we got great reviews on Haley's Heroes. And I think the masses want to also hear you sing the Haley's Heroes jingle. So we will be doing that a little bit later in the show. We're going to have more of Haley's Heroes that you have investigated deep into the draft, all the way to potential UDFAs for analytics. And people think I'm kidding. We are not kidding that you actually have done that. So we will have a few more players to kind of look at that could be

analytically sound, but we actually have a rumor to discuss. Are you, I mean, it's been a while. I feel like we haven't had any hot rumors. We've got Trey Lance rumors. Are you pumped?

Are you excited? We can talk about a real rumor i know yeah it's exciting like actual news coming out you don't hear much of that and especially like right before the draft that's not on a draft player so pretty exciting um definitely an interesting one that could go either way but yeah all right we'll break it down so ian rapaport reported that the 49ers are receiving calls but not shopping trey lance interesting that they would put it out there that they're receiving calls though about trey lance and uh then pro football talk also said that the vikings had some trey lance related discussions so let's just start there would you trade the 23rd overall pick for Trey Lance? Yay or nay, Haley?

I would not. No. If you're keeping Kirk Cousins, then I'd say don't trade the 23rd just because that's like the same thing as taking a Hendon Hooker or a Will Levis at number 23. You're essentially, I don't want to say wasting a draft pick, but if you want to go all in one more time with Kirk Cousins and you're trying to fix the defense

and you've still got Justin Jefferson and everything, and then you waste, I don't want to say waste, but you waste a 23rd pick on a quarterback who might be a project, who might not even be great, and he's going to be sitting for a year. So that pick could be used on a premium player that could help this team win now. And I think if you're trading 23 for Lance right now and keeping Kirk, that's not the best idea.

OK, so what about the scenario where you trade 23 and then after June 1st, when it's more favorable for the cap, you trade away Kirk Cousins to someone else who didn't draft a quarterback? Let's just say the Houston Texans, for example example they take an edge rusher and they've got davis mills as their quarterback and then all of a sudden there's uh i guess tangential san francisco connection with kirk cousins to the houston texans because of demico ryans let's just say they say yeah actually after june 1st we would trade for Kirk Cousins here. Would you do it if Trey Lance was going to start 2023?

If you believe that Trey Lance can start in 2023 and fit in this system, that's kind of been like a pure passing system. Like Kirk Cousins is not a running quarterback, and like Trey Lance kind of has that threat in him. So if you think that Trey Lance can fit in this system, and you want to do a reset, if you don't think the defense could be playoff caliber defense, or maybe even Super Bowl caliber defense, then fine, trade Kirk Cousins and see what you can get for him. Because, I don't know, you may be able to get a good amount for him, and maybe try to get Trey Lance for not as much. So, but I definitely think I wouldn't

give up the 23rd pick for Trey Lance and maybe try to get, or maybe trade something like later in the draft for him. I really don't know his value because he hasn't seen the fields at all. I know. And this is what's very hard is like you being the numbers person have no numbers to work with, not even going back to college for Trey Lance because he only played the one year and then the COVID thing happened and he didn't even get an opportunity to even have a second season in college to give a bigger sample size. And then he has played so little that how are we supposed to draw anything? Now the Vikings did see him in training camp practices last year. So they would have some sense for what he looked like against their defense.

But you bring up a very interesting point about where this fits in the timeline. So Kirk Cousins at the moment is the Vikings quarterback. In this offseason, they have brought in players who could kind of be for now and later, like Marcus Davenport, like Byron Murphy, Josh Oliver. These guys could work out for them in the future and in the present. There hasn't been though a very clear teardown and there hasn't been a very clear all in nature. It's almost like they've kind of waited around to see what happens with their own quarterback situation. Like, is anybody going to come trade for Kirk or are we

going to draft somebody or what before they really decide what direction they are truly taking this team on their timeline or as Kwesi says time horizon what an awkward place to be on April as we record this 19th where there has not been a real true decision about their direction yeah it's definitely a weird scenario that they're in and I don't think it's like a true ideal scenario because're in, and I don't think it's a true ideal scenario because the quarterback position is up in the air, and you never want the quarterback position to be up in the air. But as far as trading for Kirk Cousins, as a Jets fan, I actually wanted to trade for Kirk,

and I think he could have gotten his team pretty decent before the whole Aaron Rodgers situation happened. But I think he's still a solid quarterback, and if he's on the 49ers, I think they win a ton of games. And we'll kind of talk about that later. But he's a great quarterback. And if the Vikings really don't think they can get there with their defense, with the offensive line they have or whatever,

then I guess you got to trade him away and see what you can get for him. Well, and that's exactly right. We talk about being stuck in the middle all the time with this Vikings team. And the Jets are not a team that's stuck in the middle. They're a quarterback away. And San Francisco, I mean, I don't know what Brock Purdy is going to be, but I do know what Kirk would look like with that team. And I think it would be enticing to Kirk to go there. I think it would be enticing for San Francisco to have him.

If they could work, get out. However, his contract isn't easy to fit there but it got easier with the restructure to fit which also could have been a part of that that we didn't really consider and if it was i take back everything i said about restructuring the dead cap and everything else if the reason was to lower the cap to trade him after june 1st then i apologize for any criticism that i offered for that but But to me, the future is now. I remember when they traded for TJ Hawkinson, that I had a very over-the-top rant

talking about why you need to go all in and make a trade here. And I said, because there's no future. And right now it feels like, well, there really isn't for this year. The reason to go all in last year was because it wasn't going to happen again. And so now's like well there is no future right now can you make one right instead of just having this weird situation where you have a quarterback who's a lame duck who you know like

has already kind of shown what he is can you get the ball rolling on the future now and i think what we've learned at least through this that i think is a very good sign is that that's how they're thinking that they're talking to San Francisco about Trey Lance at the combine according to this report like that's good that shows their awareness of we know that this is tenuous and we're going to have to start going in a quarterback direction very soon yeah I'm glad they kind of had that realization because you know like some teams out there will be stuck in the middle for so long and wonder like why they can't win. I feel like that was almost like an Andy Dalton in Cincinnati type of thing. And they finally kind of got out of that draft of Joe Burrow.

And here they are now. So who knows? The Vikings could end up doing that later on. Right. And I think that what Trey Lance would do in a trade is not preclude you from drafting someone else next year if you have to and that is why getting it getting the ball going right now and why i would be totally for this get the ball going now and if you end up like miami who traded for josh rosen it didn't work and then they drafted toa like that's a that's a pretty good scenario for you uh speaking of scenarios there are many and i wrote them down. And so I want you to rank the quarterback

scenarios. Now that we can officially put Trey Lance in the bucket, I think of possibilities for the Vikings. I've held out on this for a long time. Didn't think it was realistic, but now it seems like it actually is. And it's something that they're really considering. So here's the options for the Vikings at quarterback as it stands. Trading for Trey Lance, drafting Hendon Hooker or Will Levis with the 23rd pick, waiting until 2024, going back to Kirk Cousins with a three-year extension

or completely panicking. No, I didn't write that. Drafting a mid-round developmental quarterback is the other one, not completely panicking. But how would you rank those potential options for the Vikings? So I'd probably start with the Kirk three-year extension, just because if you want to win now and you don't want to give up on Kirk and you feel like you can fix the defense, then you got to stay with Kirk. If you think this defense can be great and like,

who knows, they might think the defense can be great, but then again, they're like calling about Trey Lance potentially. So then you might not think the defense is a great, but if they think the defense is going to be decent and they add some players in the draft and fix this team to where they can be like, like far in the playoff caliber type of team, then I'd probably say Kirk with a three-year extension first.

Okay. So how do you rank the rest of those options? Let's say that that's off the table. Let's say that they've decided we're not doing that. And let me just further that point that if we all thought that the defense was close enough to fix because they had had the money to do it, the players, the recent draft picks to do it I I would put that first potentially maybe not I don't know I've seen too many too many eight and eight kind of ish seasons but uh but let's even say like that that would be the argument for it I just feel like they're so far away from that and the fact that they don't have a wide receiver too they still could use that the running back situation is unclear the edge rusher situation is unclear the cornerback

room is empty we don't know if lewis scenes coming back and is going to be a start like there's just so many questions there but if you could see within that window and there's also that element of keeping justin jefferson which is another part of it if jefferson wanted to keep kirk then maybe you're saying all right let's the extension. Let's fix the defense in one year and go forward from there. That one is probably second to last on my list because, well, because I think it's just time to move on. I also think that anytime you're talking about a quarterback in his mid thirties, who isn't Aaron Rogers, you are just risking a lot. And if you sign him to a three-year extension, it blows up in your face. Then you are so far off.

You're going to have passed up on all these other opportunities. How would you rank the rest of them though? I'd probably say second. I mean, you make a great case, but I'd probably say second, you're drafting or not drafting. You're trading for Trey Lance as long as you're getting rid of Kirk Cousins. I don't think they can be on the same roster. So if like getting rid of Kirk is a thing that's kind of known and that they're going to do, then I'd trade for Trey Lance,

whether that's flip-flopping him and Kirk, whatever the scenario is, like trying to get a later pick. As long as you're not giving up 23 for Trey Lance, I think that's a good scenario. I'd say third, I'd say wait until 2024. Who knows? Like, I don't think with the roster that they have now and if they keep Kirk Cousins I don't think they'll at all be in the running for the first and second pick likely where like Caleb Williams Drake May are going to go so do they want to trade their whole future for that and like make Justin Jefferson happy if he wants to stay at that point that's a big question mark so that's why I have that three and then at four I have drafting Hendon Hooker or Will Levis essentially that's a similar thing is like trading 23 for Trey Lance because you're wasting a draft pick if you're keeping Kirk

but those two quarterbacks need to sit for a year so you kind of have to keep Kirk that's kind of the weird thing with those and then finally I have drafting a mid-round quarterback I think it's like a decent option but like mid-round quarterbacks usually don't work out unless you're like a Dak Prescott or Russell Wilson or something like that. So I don't think there's great mid-round options this year. And I think all of like the quarterbacks from like Bryce Young, all the way to like Hennon Hooker will go maybe in the first round. So we'll see about that. But yeah, that's kind of where I have them. No, I agree. And I think I would have, I might have Trey Lance number one, like you said,

contingent on moving Kirk cousins after June 1st when it's favorable for the salary cap. They have to have a team that's ready to buy though, because what happens as we saw from the Cleveland Browns is usually if people know you have to trade someone, they are not very willing to give you all that much. So make sure that you got your ducks in a row with that because they can't cut Kirk Cousins. You have to trade him in his scenario, not like with Baker Mayfield, where they were just able to kind of cut bait with him and he could go elsewhere if they wanted to.

But I mean, in this situation, even if you're not getting much back for Cousins, you have to make sure that you're going to have suitors for him that will trade for him, start him, so forth. So you're not sitting Trey Lance or sitting Kirk. That would be absurd to have Trey Lance and Kirk Cousins. And also Trey Lance would come here and be like, wait a minute. Haven't I seen this one before? Isn't this like Jimmy G behind me? So there has to be some sort of deal in place. And maybe it is with San Francisco to make a trade before the draft and then send Kirk back after June, or maybe get future draft capital as opposed to this year. I don't know. There's a lot of moving parts of that. I think

that is a better option because you brought up something interesting about with Hendon Hooker, you do have to wait a year because his leg doesn't work. And if you, okay, you wait a year, but it's a purgatory year. It's the ultimate, what are we even doing here kind of year? Why are we still together with Kirk Cousins? If we've just drafted his replacement and are you really competing for a Superbowl? Not really, not at all. And so you have to wait till the future begins, where with Trey Lance, the future begins today.

So I think I do like that option as being favorable. Do you think any of this happens? I mean, 2024 would have to happen if Kirk goes. Anything else other than wait till 2024 happens? I would probably say I don't see any other quarterback other than Kirk Cousins or Trey Lance being the starter for next year. It really depends on like if San Francisco wants to roll with Brock Purdy as like their future. I mean he was kind of great but he's like a limited quarterback and I feel like he can never be that like Patrick Mahomes type of player. So do they

want to like gamble on Purdy for the future or do they want to gamble on Trey Lance for the future and you don't really know what you have in him so I think if they get a good enough deal they'll trade away Trey Lance and they know what they have in Brock Purdy already so I don't know it's I feel like it's all kind of on them right now and what they get so here's a question for you because I I struggle with this myself. Let's say that your assignment, your intern assignment was you have to give a definitive opinion based on quantitative something on whether it's a good idea to get Trey Lance. How would you approach it? Because I got nothing. I mean, I saw three practices of Trey Lance. I was like, wow, he's very large. And that was my whole takeaway. I'm

sure that they tracked them. I'm sure they that was my whole takeaway. I'm sure that they tracked them. I'm sure they had data on them and I'm sure that they watched them back closely, knowing that this could be a potential possibility or something with Trey Lance, or at least just as a scout, knowing that they were going to play him a year from that moment. So they probably have something quantitative on him. How do we go about figuring out whether Trey Lance can be good or not? Because the only thing I got right now is it's weird that San Francisco would be willing to give away if they are. And that's not the report, but if they are, it's a little weird.

That's the most quantitative I can get. Yeah. Cause there's like what two games out there over his like first two years, you really can't go off of just two games. That's like the lowest sample size ever. And then he didn't even play a ton in college so yeah there's not much like stats you can go off like you can't look at his pff grade from one game and be like all right he's got a 90 grade or he's got like a 60 grade whatever it was i don't think it was great so i'd probably say yeah like you got to look at the practices and anything like as recent as you

can get with him but there's not a lot of numbers out there. Yeah. I think really it's only, do you believe that he can turn the physical tools into something? And I don't know how you figure that out with so little of a sample size, but it might be anybody's guess. I think that would be the only hesitant point though, is if I'm quasi calling them and trying to figure this out i'm asking okay explain to me why you're doing this though explain to me why you're giving us and if the answer is oh well we know that brock purdy's gonna be great i don't know if i'm buying because it doesn't make any sense otherwise they have no incentive to move him unless they just think that it's not going to work out so very very uh very tricky situation for the Vikings.

But if they did, it would be all in on the idea because it starts the clock moving now toward who the next quarterback is going to be. And totally agree with you, though. If they were in a different position where the roster was mature, the defense was good and everything else, you'd be saying you should probably just give an extension and figure this out later. But that doesn't really seem like where they are. So here's a question for you.

Another question related to this, because we actually got something fun to work with today. If the Vikings traded Kirk to the 49ers for Trey Lance after June 1st, how many games would each of the teams win? Like how many games is San Francisco winning with Kirk? How many games are the Vikings winning with Trey Lance? I would probably have the 49ers winning a ton, but that's if they like want Kirk cousins and want him to play. If they just love Brock Purdy so much,

then I don't see them sitting Kirk cousins though. So that's a different thing. But if Kirk is starting on that team, I probably have them winning like at least 11 games. Like they'll get to the playoffs. He's a great quarterback. And I think he might even be an upgrade over Brock Purdy. I know he's kind of old, so who knows?

But their offense and defense are just so good, and no matter who's on that defense, they're going to be great. So I probably have the 49ers winning a ton of games, probably like 11-plus. And the Vikings, it all depends on how Trey Lance is. If he kind of shows up how he played the two games last season which weren't too great I know one was like in the pouring rain so you really can't even look at that either um but if he kind of plays not as great as he was playing um then I'd probably say five games I don't know like it depends on how good the bears are. The lions are probably

going to sweep you with Trey Lance. The Packers are a big question mark. So like division wise is a big question mark and who knows, but I probably have you winning like a lot, a lot less games than last season. No, I mean, I agree. I mean, I think for San Francisco, it's a lock you're winning 11 or 12 games because that team is so good. It's interesting that with Kirk, there's a little bit of Case Keenum, Kirk Cousins comparison here where, yeah, Case Keenum is not as talented, but there was some playmaking element to Brock Purdy that Cousins doesn't have.

But Cousins is a better quarterback, I think, more accurate. He could execute that offense. So you're probably, like you said, when 11 is a, is a fairly solid conservative estimate with Trey Lance, if they won six games next year with Trey Lance, but he showed a lot of flashes, that would be a winning season in my mind. Because if you felt like coming out of that, you've got something here because whoever starts Trey Lance, it's going to take a year. He's not going to look unbelievable in his first year. And that's going to be the hard thing maybe for people to deal with if the Vikings did this, is that just like a Josh Allen or even like a Justin Fields, we're probably

getting to the end of that year and having this conversation and like, is he really the guy? Because I don't know. Jalen Hurts was the same way. After last year, everyone's ranking Jalen Hurts as the 23rd best quarterback in the league. And then they built it around him. And then he takes the step. That's what you'd be looking for. It really wouldn't be about 2023. I think it's much more about 2024 if you were trading for Trey Lance, but you at least get him here, get him in your system, work with Justin Jefferson and see what you've got. If he could be your franchise guy but it's a really it's that's always been a hold up in my mind and maybe maybe you don't agree with

this i don't know i've always thought do you really want to give san francisco a better quarterback like they're in your conference and you're going to play them this year that's always been a hold up but it seems like maybe for the vikings if they're having those conversations with san francisco that quasi doesn't care about that like it's not our problem once he's gone he's gone I'd probably say like a question for this is what if it's like a Bears type of scenario next year where you win like one game get like the first or second pick in the draft with Trey Lance and you think he's good like if he like shows like flashes of being good and you think you can develop him do you take Kayla Williams or do you draft out because I'd probably take Kayla Williams I would take Kayla Williams yeah

that that would be a Josh Rosen to Kyler Murray situation and even if he did show flashes if they if they have Justin Jefferson and Christian Derrissaw on their team and win one game then it went bad it went way bad I mean that's the thing this roster for the Vikings I've always thought is a great setup for a quarterback. So that would actually be a major advantage. You bring in Trey Lance. If you can't succeed with Justin Jefferson, KJ Osborne's pretty good. Your tackles are amazing. Your quarterback or your coach is a former quarterback and has a good offense. I mean, if you can't succeed with that, then you're just not that good. And you know what you're doing next year. There's a major, major benefit for that. So I want to get to some other things. We got some

Haley's heroes, but I'm going to skip a little bit in the order just to bring up that Aaron Rogers is not yet a jet. And I don't know, like how many weeks is this? You keep telling me if this is going to happen and this keeps not happening. He's still not a jet. There was, I saw some rumor about the Titans. I get nervous, get nervous yet. No, not yet.

I'm not getting nervous. Um, sauce Gardner had said, I think it was like today or yesterday that he talks to Aaron Rogers like pretty regularly. So it's happening. Don't worry. I say that every week,

but, um, yeah, it's been like what a month and a couple of days now ish month and a week. And, uh, I didn't think it would go on this long. But if the Packers don't want their picks, like, whatever. Like, the Jets will take a player at 13, 42, and 43,

and we'll build up that roster. And then the Packers can get picks next year. And it'll just be good for the Jets to get more of a Super Bowl caliber roster for Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, I think that if it does not happen by the draft, this bit will change from me just giving you a hard time to, no, seriously, though, is this happening? Because if you're the Packers, you know that this roster around Jordan Love is not that good and they need draft picks. So you're not getting 13th overall. You've mentioned that. I totally agree with you, but they've got a couple other picks down the road from that. They need them. Like the Packers need them. And they also need to be rid of Aaron Rodgers

and move on toward the future in the same way we're talking about Kirk, like there's value in just knowing what you're doing and having Aaron Rogers still hang around in existence is not good for the guy who's going to, by the way, he's going to have OTAs. He's going to have many camps and Jordan loves going to go out there and go, well, I guess I'm the starter. Am I,

is it right? Is Aaron going to show up at camp or something? So they need to get this done soon, but until they do, it will always be a question in the rundown. When is Aaron Rodgers actually going to be in New York jet? So let's move on to some Haley's heroes. Hey, Lee's heroes. So before you give some of your, if you missed the last episode, you have targeted some analytically intriguing players in the draft that you're giving breakdowns of. This is also your article as well, that by the time people listen to this will be up.

So let's run through some more Haley's Heroes. I've also made some Matt's Monsters as well on my list. I've got some players that have caught my eye in the draft. So before you do it, you have to sing the jingle and then you can start breaking down your players. OK, Haley's Heroes in the draft. Yeah, sure. OK, that's that is to the standard of this podcast when it comes to singing. That'll work. OK, so who's the singer? Oh, well, I clearly am. So unfortunately, that is a demerit on your report card as an intern. But who is your first Haley's Hero? am so uh unfortunately that is a demerit on your report card as an intern but um what was your first dailies hero um so let's start with the day two hero uh and it's andre carter the edge player

out of army um so i always went to army football games as a kid my grandparents had like season tickets so i love army football and they had a guy who was basically their entire defense last season and in 2021. He had a 93.4 pass rushing grade two seasons like in 2021 and that was his best season and since Army is such a simple football team every opposing offense game planned as if Andre Carter was the only player on defense. That's's why his production wasn't as great this past season. But he still graded in the mid-80s for pass rushing and his defensive grade and everything, with everyone targeting only him. So in the NFL, that's not going to be the case.

You're going to be on a defense, and everyone's a threat. So it's not just you. So that's why I think he's going to be a really good player in the NFL. And he had made a bunch of strides in run defense this past year while his like pass rush wasn't as great. So if he puts all the pieces together, I think he can be a great player and he just needs to get like a little more like stronger, but he's like the on the strongest team and most athletic team in the country

and army. So I don't see any way he's not a stud in the NFL. So Andre Carter is, I think what, like six, seven. He has like some crazy wingspan. I'm trying to look this up, but yeah, he's, he's six foot six and 256 pounds. He did not have the most insane combine, but he does have a crazy wingspan and another thing that's interesting that stands out was his quickness numbers because not all of the combine things make sense for everybody but for someone who's six foot six and a half 250 pounds and has the type of short area quickness that he has just from those combine scores pretty impressive he isn't as refined of a player as

you're going to find at the very top when it comes to pass rushers but as a day two pick for the vikings a team that needs to find more of these guys yeah that's really interesting and his 2021 season is hilarious to look at it's just like tons of sacks tons of pressures and then everybody paid attention to him but because he didn't have the same production last year that could lead to him being available in the second round so he yeah he is a an intriguing guy for either that third round pick or if the vikings were to uh trade back let me throw back at you a matt's monster uh one of matt's monsters i've got an edge rusher too will mcdonald the fourth out of iowa state now he is the opposite, undersized, 6'3", 235, 240 pounds, but had an unbelievable combine, great production at Iowa State.

And they were not using him all the time as an outside linebacker. They were just lining him up over tackles. So to get that same production in something that's maybe not the best for him, I thought was really impressive. How do you like Ed Drescher for the Vikings? I mean, I think that it's a position of need here if they have to move on from Zedaria Smith or Daniil Hunter. And there's a lot of guys, these two, the Haley's heroes, the Mad Monsters, they're like one of 10 that sort of fit this bill of maybe imperfect, but also kind of freakish athletically in some way. I think it's a good draft to kind of need one in the back end of the first round. Yeah, I think so. Like you can never

have too many edge rushers. Like you can always rotate them and have them all do their thing and be fresh for the next snap. So it's a great position to take. And the earlier that you can get them almost like the better. There's a lot of undersized ones like later in the draft. So who knows if they can be great, like with their size in the NFL? Because I don't know if you're like six foot. I'd like there's one who's like six feet tall, like not even that heavy. And yeah, he had like the best production at like San Diego State or wherever he was. But like, how well is that going to translate to the NFL if you're like a little under six

foot for an edge rusher? Right, right, right. And I think I mean, this is where like Brian Flores and kind of what he prefers. Does he prefer the smallish guy can move around? Does he prefer more of a, you know, a traditional type of edge rusher like Andre Carter? I guess we'll find that out.

And maybe I need, do I need a song too? Like a metal, like. Yeah. Mets monsters. Football. Yeah. Okay, so that'll work. So who is your next Haley's hero?

So I've got Keaton Mitchell running back out of East Carolina. No one ever thought that, like, 7.4 yards per rush is possible, but he made that happen, and I don't know how he did. I mean, he's at East Carolina. He's not playing, like, the biggest competition out there, but he's had nearly 2,500 rushing yards since 2021, one of the highest running or one of the highest rushing grades in all of college football last season. He didn't fumble. He had 50 rushes of 10-plus yards. I think that led the NCAA, so just amazing running back. Like like kind of not so great about him is he's a horrible pass blocker. He's just five foot eight, kind of like a deuce Vaughn, but like a little taller. Um, so

he's just getting like trucked by these defenders if he's pass blocking. So that's not great. Um, but his rushing production is like unmatched. Uh, he stuck out to me as well because he averaged, I think a half a yard more rushing than Tanner McKee did passing. And that just doesn't happen that often. Tanner McKee has very much Daniel Jones vibes of somebody who just keeps checking down all the time, but he can't actually run. But Keaton Mitchell is an intriguing one because this again is, I think got some strengths as a draft of where the Vikings should be picking

these types of players. So running back in the first round, you know, we talk about, it's just not really a thing they need to do, but in the mid rounds, there's a bunch of guys who are like this. Keandre Miller, I think is the guy from TCU. There's Eric Gray from Oklahoma. There's, there's probably five to seven. You mentioned Deuce Vaughn. Players who could be contributors in the fourth, fifth type of rounds at the running back position. And this is why we talk about not drafting them high. And I was intrigued as well. If a guy

averages seven and a half yards per carry, kind of reminds me a little bit of like Kareem Hunt, where Kareem Hunt went to Toledo, had insane numbers, and then ended up working out. So I think that that falls in the area of the draft where teams actually should be targeting running backs. Yeah, definitely. Like if you're getting a player in the later rounds who could just be plugged into a system and chug along, then I think you're doing pretty well.

Yeah, I think so too. Let's see. Hold on. I have to call up information on my next Matt's Monster because I closed this out, unfortunately. Okay. All right. Matt's Monsters. Let's see. Kobe Turner from Wake Forest. As we know, Wake Forest constantly producing great defensive tackles. I'm just kidding. I don't know who's the best Wake Forest football player. I have no idea. Somebody will come up with that and help me out. This guy has crazy numbers, though, by PFF. He graded an 88.8 pass rush, 93.1 on run defense, elite pass rush win rate, elite when it comes to the amount of hurries, hits, sacks, totals for two straight seasons. Not somebody who's really being talked about at all. And it's kind of the right tweener for the Vikings at 6'3", 290

that could play like a five technique. And this is something that in the past I never really looked at. 6'3", 290 was, all right, he's off the board. The Vikings are not going to pick him. But for this guy, maybe that's possible. And he's kind of projected as a mid-round type of player. But I think when we're doing our, our heroes and monsters here,

we're looking for guys who have really intriguing analytic traits that may not be the highest on the radar, but could be kind of steals because of it. So I am looking at Kobe Turner and I think it just in general, the Vikings really need an interior pass rusher, whether it's high or whether it's trying to find to find someone to develop so that is my mats monster i didn't look at his relative athletic score but uh i like what i see there yeah like interior like defenders can be great and i like kalijah can't see who's a first round like projected talent now and i don't know if he falls to the vikings at 23 but he could be a potential option for them there he's like outstanding in his stats and i don't know i think he'd be a decent fit if

he's there some things are funny to look at like this guy's broad jump was horrendous and yet his three cone was incredible like how does that happen how is he how is he really good at a three cone but he can't jump anywhere i don't know what is it what does this tell us about football uh what do you got you got one more i've got uh two more okay so the first is actually a first round talent wide receiver jordan addison um i didn't like look too much into his stats because it's like jackson smith and jingba is like the top receiver in this draft everyone thinks that and maybe even like a quentin johnson or whatever um but but Jordan Addison like his stats are really really really good and I wasn't like thinking that um he did like like Josh Jones who's from North Carolina because we talked about him last week he also had like an NFL caliber quarterback

throwing to him in Kayla Williams so he's already got that kind of experience he knows what NFL quarterbacks are kind of like um but he also averaged 7.3 yards after the catch per reception. That's insane, like far more than any other receiver that I've looked at in this draft. So I have him a little bit above Zay Flowers just because of that stat. He also has 146.7 passer rating when targeted as near perfect so he's kind of insane um and should be a great fit for whatever team wants to take him uh probably to like mid end of first round i actually thought last year when kenny pickett came out that jordan addison made kenny pickett in a lot of ways because pickett was like a one and that's not true for caleb williams but that was because he was a

one-year kind of hero it was oh well this is because he's got this great wide receiver. So that's a guy that I have consistently gone back to at the 23rd pick that I don't think he's quite big enough to get drafted much higher than that. And he could be around in that range. Great for a number two wide receiver. He does have enough flaws physically, just not being the biggest guy but he's lightning i mean he's really hard to catch like quick route runner all those things i i like him a lot as a player he would be a matt's monster if he wasn't a haley's hero because i think i think that's a great pick but also i hadn't looked deep into his numbers like you did um and i'm not surprised that they came out pretty well so one more for me is i don't think this guy's actually a good fit,

but I really like him, which is Travis Hodges Tomlinson, which is LaDainian Tomlinson's nephew, I believe. He's undersized, but there is just a place in these monsters' hearts. If you are undersized and you can put yourself on the map, I think there's something to that.

The Vikings, first of all, don't really have a nickel and maybe Byron Murphy's a nickel. I'm not sure. A lot of times, some of these guys can move inside and play nickel. We saw it with Antoine Winfield back in the day here. Nickel Roby Coleman was a good undersized nickel. Like there are corners who don't have to be the biggest. And even though he didn't play in a system that would be exactly like this. And I don't know, maybe people are concerned about TCU corners because one failed here. I don't know. People like that.

But I just think he's a baller. I mean, I think he was a huge reason for their defense being capable enough to stop everybody enough except for Alabama, or except for Georgia in the national championship game. But that team, overachieved by a lot, he was their superstar, their defense, underrated, undersized. I like him as like a number – like a third-round pick for the Vikings. Yeah, when I was kind of looking through corners,

he wasn't in that like top conversation. His stats are like great. He had a 38.2 reception rate allowed and a 40 passer rating against. So he's had those stats in college, so he could be kind of great in the NFL, given his size, but who knows? I'm glad you had those numbers in front of you because I was like trying to pull them up. I had my list and I couldn't get them. So I just talked about him being short.

Who is your last Haley's hero? So we'll go with a quarterback, day three quarterback, Clayton Toon from Houston. I know like day three quarterbacks, they're kind of like inevitable, like someone's going to take them and everyone's going to talk about it. But in reality, they're really never going to play and maybe see a couple games as a backup if the starter gets hurt or whatever. But he had the highest passing grid tied with Bryce Young, who's going to be like the number one pick in the draft probably.

So yeah, that's pretty interesting. He's a stats kind of hero here. He makes big-time throw after big-time throw. He had 26 of those. But just like his bad stats were, he turned the ball over, fumbling a good amount of time, 17 turnover-worthy plays, and took 23 sacks. So maybe you can clean that up in the NFL if a team really believes they can do that. But I don't know, kind of cool quarterback

with really good stats. Yeah, really good stats, really good athleticism. And I've been looking at these things that NFL.com does, these like next-gen breakdown scores. And there are NFL starters who on this one to 100 scale got in the like low or the high seventies. And that's where Clayton tune is because he got a really good athletic score on this thing.

Not the relative athletic scores we usually look at, but he also scored well on that. And his production in college was very good too. Six, two is a little undersized. I'm trying to figure out like, what are the big criticisms of the guy? And a lot of it is just that they feel like

the scouts who watched him, that it wasn't getting the ball out quickly. It was not really reading defenses a whole lot. But the guy could certainly throw the ball. I look at him like maybe a Case Keenum type, and that's definitely tying together as university, like I just made fun of people for doing. But not the biggest, maybe not the most unbelievable when it comes to arm or reading

defenses or whatever but there could be something there and it's i'm not saying necessarily worth a shot for the vikings but if they're looking for that developmental quarterback maybe he's the guy that they look at because he does have really good numbers so that is another haley's heroes matt's monsters. We'll do one more before it's draft time. We'll make another list. Great stuff. And also people should check out your article because you have more details on day one,

day two, day three. And just as a tease, a long snapper is also mentioned who has an incredible athletic profile. I don't know. That's actually true. So one more thing for you real quick. Ryan Leaf went on NFL Network today and he really dropped some truth bombs on Bill Polian. Long story short, Bill Polian told a story about Ryan Leaf's pre-draft interview and that actually never happened. So I guess Ryan Leaf never even did his pre-draft interview with the Colts. So I don't know what happened. I

mean, Bill Paulian is pretty old. Maybe he just misremembered or something, but that's not the question. The question is you get like 20 minutes to sit down with each quarterback when it comes to, or each player, when it comes to the combine, you set up your interviews and whatever. If you had 20 minutes with some of these quarterback prospects that we've been talking about for the Vikings, what would you ask them? So I'd be like, Hey, we know your arm talent. We know your ability on the field. We've seen all of that. Why aren't you Zach Wilson? Like, why aren't you the worst decision maker in all of football? Like I'd want to know what goes on in their heads, like when they're like making a play or something like that, because like, that's what you don't see

on tape and everything like that. So I'd be like, why are you making better decisions in him? And like, why can't you be a bus in that type of category? Cause I know what you can do on the field. Why aren't you going to be a bust is such an aggressive question. Like minutes, every Minnesotan just went like oh wow uh the the east is different um that would be that's such a that's such a great like uh you're from new jersey question why aren't you a bust that's tremendous but it's a good question though like do they have an awareness to understand what needs to happen for them not to be a bust. Like Ryan Leaf was a bust because he wasn't mature enough to handle the pressures of being the top draft pick was a major reason.

He just kind of freaked out and Peyton Manning, I guess probably from birth had been prepared to be an NFL quarterback by his NFL dad and all of his NFL friends. And the guy was ready to go day one and it never phased him. And the talent difference was probably nothing. And it was entirely that he couldn't handle it. And I guess that's what I would want to know as well. Like, what is some of the things that you go through in high school, college, whatever, that would prepare you for the NFL? Because I think what you want to hear, there's almost a, there's, it's almost a lock that all the draft

picks think that they're ready to play. They're like, oh man, like I'm good. Like I'm all set. I'm ready to get out there. And then a couple of weeks into training camp, they're like, oh my God, this is so hard. This is so much different. So I guess I would want to look for an awareness of how much different it was going to be. I don't even know if I care as much about like them drawn on a whiteboard or not. I don't know how much that matters. Maybe it does more than I think, but I think it comes down to, can you actually handle all the pressure? And maybe it's not a coincidence.

I think the New York thing is overrated. Maybe it's not a coincidence though. I don't know because there is so much pressure when you are the New York Jets quarterback that they need to still be trying to trade for Aaron Rodgers because all these guys can't handle it. Exactly. Like, I don't, like there shouldn't be as much pressure being a New York quarterback because the Jets and Giants have been so bad for so long that our expectations are so low. Like you don't have to go out and be Patrick Mahomes in the first day, but just don't turn on the ball over like five times in the

first half. Like that's all I'm asking. But, but yeah, I just be like, watch some Zach Wilson film, like watch some like horrible decision-making throws and like, tell me why you wouldn't do that and stuff like that. Yeah, no, that's a really, that's a really interesting way to look at it. Uh, there's so many things that go into it. Uh, it is almost defies the odds that the Jets could draft as many busts as they did sorry about that but uh at the same time you you understand it because there are so many things that are different in the nfl than they are from college um and maybe this is why in some of these meetings they play rock paper scissors because there's no way to figure it out so they just

do staring contests or whatever i think it was was it nick seriani who was do staring contests or whatever. I think it was, was it Nick Sirianni who was doing staring contests with these guys? Like, I have no idea. I initially thought Nick Sirianni is going to be this brutal coach because he's doing rock, paper, scissors or something with these players, but I guess that wasn't all they did.

So anyway, maybe, maybe you'd ask them after the Will Levis thing, like what's your worst food opinion. And you could judge off of that. Okay. So any Vikings questions for me? Yeah, I've got one this week. So it's one week before the draft. What do you think the Vikings should do with number 23? Like your top option, if everything goes according to the plan, like let's say the player you want falls or something like that, or you want to trade out of that pick, like what's the top prime option?

Okay. If I'm being unrealistic, the top option is that Anthony Richardson falls far enough for them to trade up and draft Anthony Richards. That is not realistic, but that would be number one on my list. If that doesn't happen, I think we actually just talked about it. It's probably draft Jordan Addison or someone of the like. Whoever they want. I don't know. I don't know who's going to be better. Like Quinton Johnston can't really catch the ball, but he's kind of a beast.

Like, I don't know. Maybe that guy. Give him the football. Find a way. It's a receiver for me because I don't think you're fixing the defense today. I think it's going to be pretty rough. You need free agency money to do that. You just drafted poorly for so long. So you can make yourself a potentially elite offense. You can set yourself up to give the best possible situation to your next quarterback,

whoever that's going to be. Get that started today. Draft a quarterback or draft a wide receiver for your next quarterback. I think still they're drafting a corner, and that's going to be fine, but that's what I would do. How about you? How would you answer that question? I would probably, like, after looking through Jordan Addison's stats, I'd be like, oh, he's on the board. Like, take him.

Like, because Smith and Jigma's not on the board. I'd probably doubt Quentin Johnson's on the board, but I think I'd want Addison over Johnson right now. So I'd probably say him. And then I just love Deontay bank so much, like such an athlete, such great stats. So yeah,

I'd probably say one of those two guys right now, but if a team calls you like giving a first round pick for next year for like that pick, then I'd be like, Oh, trade back. Like why not? Yeah,

of course. A hundred percent. There's kind of like these, these outlier scenarios where, yeah, if, if the new Orleans saints, for some reason, because they psychotically trade in the draft,

want to do something crazy, then do it. But if not, I think we're on the same page. That's actually how you got the internship. That was the whole interview. I just said, like we're talking about interviewing quarterbacks, I just said, what would you do in the draft? And you said, draft or receiver. Okay, you're hired.

Come on in. So anyway, well, great stuff, Haley. Really appreciate that. And our next Haley's Heroes episode is going to be right before the draft. And then we've got plans to pod like right after day three as well. So lots of Haley coming your way to continue to break these things down as we go forward. So thank you for your time and thank you everyone for listening and we'll catch you later.