Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A right guard mystery leading into Vikings-Chiefs

Episode Date: October 5, 2023

Matthew Coller is joined by Alec Lewis of The Athletic and Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribuine to talk about interesting comments by offensive coordinator Wes Phillips about the right guard position. Plus whether the Chiefs are vulnerable because of their receivers and what Mahomes says about the Vikings future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Inside. I'm Matthew Collar here inside TCO Performance Center. Sitting in for Will Raggetts of the Raggetts Roundtable is Alec Lewis of The Athletic. And as always, Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune. And we've got Vikings and Chiefs coming up. And Alec, the way this usually works, it's usually a hardcore breakdown. So we look at matchups, X's and O's. Sometimes I just draw on a whiteboard that doesn't even exist. That's how it usually works. But I think we've got a lot of other things to discuss as well that are, uh, as Wes Phillips called them narratives going on

about this team. And I feel like it just wouldn't be even one of these conversations if we didn't start with the offensive line. And since we just listened to Wes Phillips kind of go on a rant about Ed Ingram and his play, I want to get your guys' reactions. I'm not sure if Dalton Reiser's playing this week. It doesn't feel like Dalton Reiser's going to play this week. I don't know when, if ever, he's going to play. And if he doesn't, I don't know why they signed him. So let's talk about it. What do you think Ed Ingram plays? And if he doesn't, what's the reaction? How are you feeling about this right guard situation that has captivated the masses? Yeah, I do. Thanks for having me. First of all, it's an honor to be here with you two gentlemen. I know we talk a lot in the media room, but now we get to do this live. You're right in that this is a captivating subject,

the right guard of the Minnesota Vikings. It's the headline on ESPN. It is what we have on the front page of The Athletic. I mean, it is everywhere you look right now. But it was interesting, and I asked Wes Phillips because I was curious and I've just been curious, I think, throughout the entire season. Like, how do you evaluate Ed Ingers' play through four weeks? The numbers will tell you that he's given up the second most pressures in the entire NFL among guards.

And this follows a season where he gave up, I think, the most pressures in the NFL among all offensive linemen. So Wes Phillips answered it. He was at first a little positive, talked a little bit about some of the plays that he struggled on. And then he kind of went on a on a soliloquy about the narrative surrounding an offensive lineman. And it was quite interesting. I'll let Andrew give his thoughts on that. But the whole situation, I think, raised a lot of questions. Big picture, short term, the Dalton Reiserner signing, where that stands in the whole thing. So it really is interesting, I will say.

Excuse me. Yeah, I have to clear my throat because it's a big conversation about the Minnesota Vikings and something we keep talking about over and over with is Dalton Reisner going to be, I believe it would be the 13th different guard to start in front of Kirk Cousins since 2018. And Kevin O'Connell said Wednesday that that's to be determined when that change is coming. They're clearly open to it, the head coaches anyway, even though Wes Phillips seemed to defend the starters, both Ingram and Ezra Cleveland in terms of the guys they've had in there. I think if they were going to make that change immediately, they would have done it. And there were moments in Carolina to pull Ingram and they didn't do it.

And so that shows you how much they're trying to ride it out with this current group, even though they brought Reisner in. Um, I thought it was noteworthy that O'Connell said on Wednesday as well, that when you bring a guy like Dalton in, in season, you want to give him the opportunity to compete for that job and in season competitions are hard to come by. So that's why they rotate these guys in practice with the first team. They're doing that again this week. I thought it was notable, Matt, that they said Blake Brandel

was also getting first-team reps, as if they're considering two different options to replace, maybe not only one, but both starting guards. Yeah, where it's really fascinating to me is, first of all, you don't hear Wes Phillips get defensive or kind of for him and he's doing it in a calm way but it's kind of going off and that is not something that he usually does I mean he usually answers a very even-keeled kind of way but it made me wonder all right who in this building is team Ed and who in this building is team Dalton Reisner? Because the way that Kevin O'Connell talks, it sounds like, yeah,

we're waiting. We're waiting. Can't wait to get him in there. We're continue to put them out there and practice because if this wasn't a thing, then O'Connell would not be having him practice. He said, ideally, you'd rather have five guys who are just awesome and they practice all the time but then wes is saying i've seen your tweets cut it out quit going after ed which hey we would do if there was no reason to do it but he continues to give us reasons to do it which is as you mentioned all the data is right there he's their lowest graded blocker. They've gotten a lot of quick beats and a lot of them are on him. And by the numbers he's given up what, like six QB hits already. A lot of times a guard doesn't give up six QB hits in an entire season. So you're not

crazy that you think the right guard has been an issue, but it is interesting to think about your general manager drafted the right guard. Your head coach clearly was panicking after the first two weeks after seeing it. Where does your offensive line coach stand? Your offensive coordinator sounds like he wants to stick with Ingram. He just had his best game in which he's still allowed to play that turned into an interception, but was really good in the run blocking. I think this is more than just,

Hey, there's a right guard. I think that there are a lot of different viewpoints from us putting things together on what they should do with this situation. There are a lot of questions first with Dalton Reisner and we've talked about this, but I mean, this is a guy who's never started at a position in the NFL. That's not left guard. So to move him to right guard, as you guys have heard a lot longer than I, it's like playing with your opposite hand in basketball. that's not left guard. So to move him to right guard, as you guys have heard a lot longer than I, it's like playing with your opposite hand in basketball. It's like shooting a layup with your left hand. I mean, that's what it is like.

There's that element with him. There is also the element that he has not known this offense. He has not been in NFL game shape. He arrived much later than most, did not have a full training camp. So all of those elements, I think, factor into the decision that he has not played yet. But then with that, I think about Ed Ingram and the fact that this is a competitive rebuild.

This is year two of that competitive rebuild with this regime, and they have prioritized development of certain draft picks, of the players that they brought in the building. And to move off of a guy like ed ingram at this point um i think would would signal certain things to develop it wouldn't end it wouldn't end i think the possibility that he could play in the nfl and starting the nfl but it's just that element in that situation for a team that is amid a competitive rebuild it just complicates things in my opinion yeah we know uh Wes Phillips the coordinator who we're talking about is team ed we know that right we we know he's I noticed he's

team Ingram he's been team Ingram he was very complimentary of him in training camp leading up to the season before the struggles continued um I do think it's interesting to see the public comments at least from these two coaches differ because yeah O'Connell's the one keeping the door open it's not like we asked him a ton about hey when are you going to put Dalton Reisner in we just asked him about the practice reps and he kept saying that they're basically open to a change and and it's noteworthy that the head coach thinks that because I'm sure the quarterback wouldn't mind it either on some plays like this and I think it's noteworthy that you mentioned how quickly Ed Ingram can get beat that just blows up plays so fast with Chris Jones coming to town no less right right right and so there is a potential

that everybody gets their guy in the game this week yeah they might try a number of I I had to remind myself wait did Chris Jones really have almost 16 sacks last year oh he did yes he did I went back and look he is one of the most impressive players in the entire NFL and something that he does. And this is where it ties into the hardcore of this game is he will line up over your weakest offensive lineman. Very clever. But he's dynamic enough to do that. So today he's an edge rusher because your tackles thinks, well, he's not going to do that against the Vikings who have great tackles. He's going to be somewhere in that interior. And maybe, maybe it's over the left guard too. Like we talk about Ezra Cleveland as if he's not part of this,

but they've always talked about him as if he is part of the potential where could rise their fit in. So if they're not happy with him at some point, there could be a change there as well. But my thing is we've a little bit gone past go when you're going into a game with chris jones going yeah i don't know we're not really sure i guess we'll see how it all plays out and see if kirk is alive and then uh if not uh maybe uh dalton riser will block for nick mullins because kirk's being wheeled out of here i mean it's just like this inability to figure this out from August 1st when the guy visits to right now is kind of like, what are we doing here, boys? Right. And it goes back. I mean,

this is something we've all talked about. I think going back to the early part of training camp, we've been asked about by fans consistently is why didn't they, I mean, they added Josh Oliver, the tight end for their attempt at run blocking more effectively, but they didn't add any piece of the interior offensive line other than bringing back Garrett Bradbury, who has only played seven snaps. So it is, you place yourself in a precarious position when you have this guy named Chris Jones coming in this weekend. I mean, I was watching a JTO Sullivan video that he did on his Patreon of Zach Wilson and the Jets offense last weekend. There was a play where Chris Jones is double team block. He spins out of it. He tackles Breesall. I'm like, this guy is ridiculous. And Vita Vea in week one had a pretty fair amount of success, I will say.

And this guy's on a different level. Yeah, he's pretty good. And you're going to face guys like this. You mentioned Vita Vea down the line. They're going to face guys like this. You mentioned Vitavia down the line. They're going to face guys like this every week, it seems like. At least they're going to make mediocre to average guys look pretty good sometimes with how poor this interior line can play. And I think if the Vikings are going to have any chance, they're going to need to score 30-plus in this game, right? I don't think this – you don't have a Jets defense that's going to hold them down to 17 points.

You don't have a Kelsey-less offense in the Chiefs that won't reach a high level either like they did in week one against the Lions. The Vikings are catching a Chiefs team that should theoretically get its stuff together as the season progresses. And even at US Bank Stadium, I think they're going to need Kirk and this offense to be humming and not turning the ball over like they have been. It feels very much to me like a Justin Jefferson game, which every game

kind of is but i mean maybe something special from him and yet with this offense the biggest question that we get is why are they inconsistent and why can't they ever win a game by more than a score which even last week i was trying to call it on last week's shows like this 20 points even halfway through the game i was looking at carolina play football like 20 points you're gonna win by 20 points and still they couldn't and you and i had this debate during training camp about osborne versus addison and who's gonna catch more passes still undetermined though you do owe me a milkshake over ivan pace but the answer has been nobody really i mean that they both caught a couple touchdowns and made some plays, but there has not been this secondary receiver.

And I feel like if Justin Jefferson goes for 150 yards, you still need 200 more somewhere. And that has not been coming. And I think when it does or if it does, then you can have a more consistent offense. But it has not been that yet. So how do they get there? Yeah, I think it's interesting because Sunday's game was a good opportunity to, but they shot themselves in the foot with two,

three and outs to turnovers. They had 44 or I think it was 44 plays. Um, didn't have a whole lot to establish those guys. And Jefferson still had two touchdowns and 85 yards. I think TJ Hawkinson is wide receiver number two. Um, but if you're talking about just that wide out group, go back to the second half of the chargers game. That was the one where they finally just started peppering Addison with those underneath stuff. I mean, that's the thing that if you can get Jordan Addison from the home run threat that we saw earlier in the season to more of that consistent underneath option, that might give them more of a reliable outlet and then allow Jefferson to stretch the coverage like he does. And you're going to see Addison's numbers, I think,

go up as the season progresses. To me, this has to be a TJ Hawkinson game. It just has to be. I mean, you extended him and paid him, I believe, the top of the market for a tight end. Close to. Depending on who you ask. Close to that point.

The incentives allow him to. But to me, I mean, it's time for him to really step up and have a game. I think that he's paid to have. I mean, you have a linebacking core for the Chiefs that is probably their weakest link on their defense, I would say. I mean, it's probably debatable, but I think that matchup with TJ Hockson, those linebackers could be something to exploit. And you guys are both right. I mean, Justin Jefferson is doing what he does every week, and he's doing it often against double coverage,

often with three sets of eyes on him. And really it's going to be, to me, can they run the football effectively to stay out of third and long? Because if they're in third and long against this Pashush and Chris Jones, I think it's going to be mayhem. And then if they can stay out of third and long, can they convert some of these shorter third down opportunities to guys like TJ Hawkinson? Does it ever feel like, and I totally agree with you with Hawkinson, by the way,

if you're taking that contract, 8.1 yards per attempt is not going to fly. It's only been a couple of games and that's how it goes with tight ends, but they need from him what he did in the playoffs where it was i think 10 catches 129 yards he needs to be effective down the field more than just oh uh-oh things have gone wrong we'll dump it down to tj hockinson because that's where the extended value over a replacement josh oliver could average eight yards a catch i pretty much i mean johnny munt could average eight yards a catch like i i agree they need big plays from Hawkinson. And I think there's going to be inconsistency with Jordan Addison.

There's just a feeling, and this has gone on for really the entire cousins era of how can you get them to score on more than 35% of their drives, which puts them in the middle of the league every year. It seems like, and I guess i thought well kevin o'connell will change this and he has not solved this they throw more but he has not solved this and do we think that there's something that he's doing that needs to be different because maybe maybe i've potentially and i know you guys watch the tape you're film watchers there is one thing that they do that i don't understand which is on third downs there are not

middle of the field crossing routes slants little little like options for cousins it seems like he's still going for a lot of big plays or trying to clear out for one guy but if that guy is covered kirk won't throw it to him and that happened a couple of times the play where hawkinson had the ball knocked away from him and then the one where he just kind of flung it down the sideline. When I went back and looked, I was like, actually, I kind of understand why Kirk did that. And I don't know, like, do you guys have feelings on this or do we think it's just so fundamental to who cousins is that it won't really ever change even if you do solve the problem? I do wonder we'd spent the entire first 15 minutes or whatever talking about the interior O-line.

I do wonder how much that impacts your play calling and obvious passing situations. You need a clear pocket. I go back to the playoff game the Vikings had against Drew Brees and the Saints in January 2020, where they put Daniil and Everson in the middle and Drew Brees could not throw over the middle could not throw those quick slants to Mike Thomas in the record-setting year that Mike Thomas had in that Saints offense and that was just the automatic play they always had we thought they were down a slot corner how they're going to do this anyway it's an anecdote that talks about how like this it's really tough to throw over the middle when you've got hands up when you've got pressure up, when you've got pressure in your face, you've got the center, the guards getting driven backward. I do wonder if that hamstrings

the scheme a little bit in terms of what they can do in these downs where teams know. And I think you're right though. I think Kirk in general is not a guy that's going to drive the ball over the middle too much into tight windows. We've seen him do that selectively, a nice pass at the goal line to TJ rings a bell where it gets bobbled into an interception. But in general, we don't see that from him. So I do think that this offense is going to be limited with Kirk and, frankly, the line that we spent the first 15 minutes talking about. The other thing I've wondered with those third and twos, third and fours,

where you see the long foul ball kind of toward the sideline or a sailed passage of Justin Jefferson is maybe those are the only opportunities where you're getting man and and cover one with one safety deep so if you can try Justin Jefferson on an inside fade route one-on-one in coverage like I mean this is our shot and we got to take the shot that that's that's something I wonder if that's maybe in the calculus of Kevin O'Connell's. But I agree with you in that for this offense to be successful, they're going to have to convert these third downs. I think that's what we've learned over the course of these last couple games is that when they convert these third downs, if they're

running the ball effectively, they can be pretty efficient down the field. If they don't, then it's going to be a disaster because three and outs have happened for this offense and they did last year on a pretty like frequent basis and it just ruins it it feels like it just kills the momentum and makes the rhythm of this offense feel lethargic so um yeah it is I mean you guys mentioned Kirk and it is something I you wonder continuously with the offensive line with Kirk with Kirk not being able at times to extend plays I mean it all factors in and and probably makes it difficult on Kevin O'Connell to try to find ways to scheme efficient plays make Little Caesars the official pizza sponsor of the NFL part of your game day order online during our Pizza Pizza pregame one hour before NFL games and get

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made easy. Well, and I think when you watch Patrick Mahomes convert third downs with his legs, you see that that's always going to be a missing link for him. And so how do you work around that in today's NFL where there there are chris joneses i don't know that there is like a concrete answer i love the deep shot on third and short if you're going for it on fourth down i do not love it if you're in territory and game situation where you're going to punt or not having multiple guys open and that was the thing with jordan addison where it's like you mentioned those dink and dunks to him i thought that's what he was going to be yeah and he hasn't been that yet i think he can be that where it's like that was

the issue with feeling is that he couldn't get open the way he used to be able to in short areas and addison i think can with the quickness we had we saw that a lot in camp but we have not seen it a lot so far now in the season we saw in that second half against the chargers it was when it was where um kirk went to him like four straight times and it was really quick intermediate downs too yeah including i think it was a six yard catch on the third and five or something like that and those are the moments where you see you can see it's in the playbook they obviously drill it they obviously know it's there it's something they can go to um i do wonder if we're going to start seeing that more especially against a chief's front that as we keep mentioning with chris jones can bring some pretty quick pressure and maybe not be so favorable for the over the

middle uh type of scenarios we're talking about so i think it's clear that uh they have score bunch points hot take from all of us that's why you follow this coverage folks uh the win 20 to 17 right yeah which is gonna be a grind fest like it was in new york ridiculous how did what are you guys emotions about patrick mahomes guys' emotions about Patrick Mahomes? I have emotions about Patrick Mahomes. He's one of the few athletes in sports where you watch and he makes a play and you just go, I felt that in my body. And Brian Flores is the same way.

When he was talking about it, he was like, bro, I don't even know. Sometimes he just does things and there's nothing. And so he's preaching, dude is going to do things you don't understand you just have to move on after he does them there's no one like him i can't wait to watch him in person but also the vikings need to play well against him like crazy and usually when we talk about this we talk about an answer well this guy he's got this weakness you can do this i don't even know how to talk about Mahomes so it's it's very different from almost anyone else yeah I've got two things one Brian Flores who's he's usually pretty serious

he's he's laughed a little bit and been a little jovial this year but he's usually pretty serious and he's like you know watching them is pretty fun like yeah yeah he's trying to defend him probably is not but I lived in Kansas City for three years I covered the Kansas City Royals and I went to a lot of Chiefs games. And since I started covering the Vikings, I laugh all the time because on my timeline on Twitter, what have you, or following the other writers, I see, like, who are the Chiefs going to sign for their fourth wide receiver?

Who's their third DB? I'm like, you guys, when you have this player, the margin for error that it gives you is crazy. I mean, and it really is like watching Steph Curry it's I mean it's it is just there are things that are just special and and there is a level of electricity energy that this guy brings to the game that that makes it fun yeah I got to I've only seen him play in person once it was when the Vikings went um there for a preseason finale I think it was 2019, maybe right before that season.

And it was, oh no, I think it was after that because Bashad Breeland was on the team. So it must've been 2020 or 2021. And he threw a touchdown to Tyree Kill down the sideline over Breeland that, you know, it was one drive, one quick drive of work for Andy Reid in the starting offense. But there are a few players that you see in person

and you just go, that's different. It's guys like him. It's guys likear jackson um we're physically what they do and i don't think mahomes gets much of the wow he's such a freak athlete but the way he looks you don't he shouldn't move with how he looks the way he does yet he can move that kind of pear-shaped body around in ways that just doesn't make sense and then he makes decisions that I think would be just the worst for any other quarterback, but he can still fit into tight windows or make just certain angles and trajectories on his throws that are ridiculous. You mentioned Steph Curry. I mean, it's that kind of talent and skill level that other people will try to emulate and very few

people will be able to do. And it reminds me lot of what rogers has done to the vikings over the years where you think that a play is over they got him they beat him and they didn't and one thing that he is insane at that i have no idea how you do this like how many eyeballs do you have because he will manipulate the pocket in ways where he like runs defenders into his blockers somehow to create more space and then seems to have an amazing sense of when i should run when i should not run and if you have to cover everyone down the field for eight seconds and then he could still run like what is the answer there's no scheme there's no blitz there's no coverage and the thing is that you can out scheme

andy reed and beat him the whole day and lose like the jets did just because of that drive. There's another thing that he represents to me that goes beyond this. That is not just about this game, which is the, what about my homes, which is like the, the Kansas city chiefs had this pretty good quarterback who everybody liked and everybody acknowledged this guy can get you to the playoffs and he's a good player. And I'm sure in Kansas City, if you go back to everyone's probably deleted all their old tweets where they said, why are we drafting a quarterback? What if this guy's not any good? He doesn't have the right footwork.

There's a problem with this. Why are they doing this? Why are they drafting this Mar Holmes? And yet what did he become? You know, it's not only just, you know, the Super Bowl champion and the best quarterback, but also they took full advantage of his rookie contract as well and developed him to the point where he could overcome having those issues but to me the the franchises are so similar until the point they trade up from homes and it breaks off to where they're now the brady patriots and look we're in that spot i mean going forward so there's a game to play that's going to try to save the viking season but i will also be thinking about how like you said the number four wide receiver

who cares if their right guard gives up pressures, right? All that is because they made that decision, which I think as we evaluate this general manager, they're hoping that it works out the same way, even if, you know, there's only one Mahomes. Right. And that's the challenge that always comes to my mind with this and with every comparison to Mahomes. Like I'll see on Twitter the charts of where each team lies in EPA and it's always the Chiefs at the top right it just to me any comparison using this guy is not really fair because I've never seen anything like him in my life even if Aaron Rodgers has done some stuff that is pretty phenomenal um so but but you're right in that the way they have built their team from drafting him after and moving on from Alex Smith and developing him in a situation where they have a quarterback-minded coach who has skill players around him, Travis Kelsey and others. That is the prototype for probably how you want to build it.

And if you look at what the Vikings have done, they have built around their offense and kind of elevated the structure around potentially bringing a young guy. The other thing they've done that Brett Beach, I hope, gets enough credit for is they have drafted really well outside of that. You draft Trent McDuffie. You draft Nick Bolton. I mean, these guys have really come along. And Isaiah Pacheco in the seventh round, the offensive line, the way they've rebuilt that. I mean, there is a lot around Mahomes that matters and helps you when that contract that Mahomes has transforms from rookie deal to expensive contract. Yeah, the Chiefs offensive line is the opposite of the Vikings. Their interior is really good. Their tackles are garbage.

But McDuffie available to the Vikings 12 or 13 overall before trading back 32, whatever. Apparently, McDuffie did not fit their size requirements that they were looking for a corner was he not injured enough in college he's pretty good he's pretty good um yeah that's that's a good point alec that outside of the mahomes deal they've done a pretty good job maintaining that roster and then obviously getting ryan poles the gm job out of that as well. I think, though, that the Vikings need their quarterback to fall to, what did Mahomes fall to, 10th, 12th in that draft? I think it was 10th.

You know, if you're the Vikings, and look, to argue your point, Matt, the Vikings are making that decision in terms of approaching that divorce with Cousins. I know they could have done it before this year, but they decide to ride out this last year of his contract. And it really seems like we could be heading to a point where they're hoping this next draft is the one where they find their guy in the top 10 if not right outside and and i don't think there's anybody who would say that you don't need to build the rest of the roster of course you do the funny thing about that is though they had this great last draft and it reminded me of when new orleans

drafted like latimore camara a couple other players the same year and it's like wow i think they got ram check like they got stars that that whole year you need one of those to build a great team and the vikings have not come anywhere close to that for a complete draft that gives you three four players the funny thing to me is that they drafted clyde edwards a lair in the first round first round. And it's like, you're, you're, you're brilliant and you're foolish and you're, you're a genius and you're an idiot. Like all the time when it comes to the draft. But I think that you can't overlook with this Vikings roster currently how much drafting has been a problem. So it doesn't answer all of the questions going

into the future just to draft that guy. But to me, it's like, if you want to point to one example, the best example maybe ever of a team saying, yes, Alex Smith is good. And no one disputes that and no one dislikes him, but right. And you're right to bring it up. And, and, and I mean, truthfully, you have a situation here where I think just like the, just like Kansas city and Brett beach trusting Andy Reed with that pick that they were going to make and who they were going to target. I mean, I think you have a situation here where you have Kevin O'Connell whose entire

career arc began with his work and, and draft and drafting and developing quarterbacks. I mean, he worked pre-draft with a ton of guys. He has been in that process going back a decade. So to me, just like Brett Beach leaning on Andy Reid, this is going to rely on Kweisi Adofa-Mintza likely leaning on a guy like Kevin O'Connell and targeting the guy who could probably chart this path forward. But it's a rightful conversation and just idea to be thinking about as this game happens on Sunday.

You guys ready to have that discussion after this week? Because this week, this is like one of those, you ever see those charts about like, if you win, your probability to go to the playoffs is this. If you lose, it's this. This has to be one of the widest that you'll ever have. If they win, not only emotionally, because we're going to believe, holy, wow, they won.

And now they're a real team. But also statistically, one in four is hard to overcome. Two and three, that's an average start to a season that you can absolutely get back in the playoffs. If it's one in four, we are watching Quinn Ewers and Shadur Sanders, and we are like getting tape grinders on the show. Oh, yeah. If they win, I'm putting that discussion away for for probably

a while um a relevant question for whether or not they can win uh do you guys know who the chief's leading receiver is in 2023 is it rashid rice nope um sky more justin watson is their leading receiver and so while that's something that a lot of people say, who cares? You know, Patrick Holmes could throw to a brick wall and beat us. They don't have a whole lot. You see the Lions get a pick six tip to them by Kadarius Toney. Like your DBs could be very well helped by drop passes or tip passes. This Chiefs team is not unbeatable to that point. I do think that the Vikings have a path to victory. I don't

think it's going to be some kind of blowout. I just think that if they catch the Chiefs on a day where they're actually operating offensively, where their receivers are receptive, that could be for a very long day for them. But they're equipped to win a shootout if they have to. And I think if they do win this game, it changes at least what we're talking about as far as the outlook, because then it's just the Niners in your way of what really kind of opens up into a decent schedule. Folks, this fall season is an unbelievable time for sports. And I'm always a fan of trying to catch other games when I go on the road to cover football, like baseball, hockey, basketball, just about anything. And that's why I use GameTime,

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I mean, there are lots of opportunities now at one and four. How much confidence are you going to have that the Vikings are going to be able to beat these teams on a week to week basis? Probably not a lot of confidence, but I think originally coming into the season, you look at the schedule and you thought really, really difficult. And it has been to this point and will continue to be these next three weeks with the 49ers and the Chiefs. But after it, I mean, there are a lot of opportunities to where anything can really happen.

But it is worthwhile that after this game, if they are one and four, we're going to be – you can't not think forward. So the way I look at that is Miley Cyrus. You know, we're talking about pop music. Miley Cyrus has a song out that starts the chorus by saying, I'm jaded. Well, I've covered two seasons here. Actually, three, counting 2016. But two seasons that started off terribly.

And guess what we said? Hey, you know, they got the Jaguars and the Panthers. And then all they got to do is beat Mitch Trubisky at home. Oh, they didn't beat Mitch Trubisky at home. All they had to do was beat Cooper Rupp. I'm not j oh they didn't beat mitch trubisky at home all they had to do is beat cooper ruck i'm not jaded yet i'm not jaded you haven't seen that but we've seen this movie before where we go oh well all they got to do is beat all these bad teams but they just beat carolina by eight points and they had the ball with a chance to tie the game as horrific as that team and that performance was and so it's hard to convince me that there

won't be one game where you go to Atlanta and you're like, Desmond Ritter, who cares? And then he just has a good game against you or they run for 290 yards or something. But with this one, you know, in particular, I think if you lose this, that even with the schedule, it's pretty rational to start talking about. It is now a very long road where there is no margin for error whatsoever. I also think I'm curious about what your guys' opinion on this is. The other football team, whoever the Vikings have been playing, they got the ball the whole game, every game. Yeah.

Like, I think that this team is very okay, this Chiefs team, with playing like seven yards, eight yards, nine yards, the same way that the Chargers did. And honestly, Carolina moved the ball in that game, but they did really stupid things at the end when they got to the end zone. But the way they moved the football on numerous drives, you thought like this is, if a team like this can control the game against you, this is not good for Kansas City,

a team that is very happy to think it done. Yeah, the Vikings defense just doesn't disrupt very much, which is why Marcus Davenport's return and really debut on Sunday was so welcome because he gave you a little bit of that element where they could tackle people behind the line of scrimmage, stop some runs, and get after the quarterback without having to send the entire defense after you.

But Brian Flores was still calling zero blitzes on third downs at the end of that game. And it was working because it's Bryce Young. But Brian Flores didn't want to entertain any of the questions about whether or not he can blitz Patrick Mahomes. Because the question is no. Patrick Mahomes ranks 31st in the amount of times quarterbacks have been blitzed this year. And when he does get blitzed, it works out pretty well in his favor um flores did say this offense is built with the answers obviously the quarterback has the answers and that you have to deploy a mixture of your elements and things you want to do on defense but in general this is going to be really hard for them to to disrupt this offense because you're right carolina could move the ball the chargers move

the ball i think the chargers were one of the only games they held the ball longer than their opponent otherwise it just doesn't happen very much because the defense lets these drives continue on and I saw some stat that the defense has among the lowest rate of just disruptive plays when you combine deflections interceptions fumbles sacks all these things when you combine all the things that defense wants to do this Vikings defense is just not really doing if I'm not mistaken I think this Vikings defense has allowed opponents 76 completion percentage this season that sounds really good and that's the yeah that's Baker Mayfield Bryce Young obviously Justin Herbert and then Jalen Hurts um so be with that what you will but I I re I went back and re-watched the other day the 2020 Dolphins

Chiefs game Brian Flores facing the Chiefs and the Chiefs had Tyree Kill so it's hard to extrapolate a lot from that game but what was evident is they did have cornerbacks like Zavian Howard and Byron Jones manning up with those with those Chiefs pass cutters and and and this team this Chiefs team is obviously so much different, but we haven't seen a ton of just straight man coverage from the Vikings this year. They played a lot of that cover zero look with the off coverage. I mean, this could be an opportunity where just try to get physical

with the receivers and win that battle on the edge. I mean, if that's possible, that could be a way. But then when you do that, and this is the Chiefs team, when you're running man coverage down the field, Patrick Mahomes sees that and he scrambles for 20 yards. This is what makes it so hard. It's like playing whack-a-mole and you're trying to plug all the holes, and I'm not sure if you can with this Chiefs offense.

I say blitz him. I say blitz him. Screw it. Just send him out. Thanks, Coach. I'm going with it. Me and B-Flow, we're on the same page it. Just send the house. Thanks, coach. I'm going with it. Me and B-Flow, we're on the same page here. We're one heartbeat. Here's why. I really think this. First of all,

you said he barely ever faces blitzes. So you're trying to give him looks that he is going to have a little bit more challenge identifying. He is a brilliant quarterback, so he will probably beat you on some of them, but the only way to create a disruptive play is going to be that. And what we saw last week is even though Carolina moved the ball and move the ball, it took one play with a blitz off the edge for one person to make a mistake. And they have tackles that make mistakes. They have a line that makes mistakes and my homes. What he will do is try too hard at times to make the genius brilliant play so yeah if you're going to give up some plays

because you blitz that are short passes and things like that but if there's one mistake you can cause that might be able to turn the tide also i would want to dare his wide receivers to actually beat these corners yeah because i just don't think they're any good like they're not just like oh juju smith schuster where he's been a dude in the league these are like sky more can't play he's not even good at all so make him beat you one-on-one somewhere and send the house the engage eight the difference is here yeah that keenan allen is not there catching these passes that's's what I mean. Very true.

You know, the Herbert to Allen combination was so lethal against the Blitz. But if, yeah, if Kansas City's receivers are tipping the ball up, dropping it, doing whatever, maybe you do want to test that, get the ball quickly, force it out quickly, because you know that something could happen on the other end. We've talked about the turnover margin like a billion times this year you guys too um but to win the turnover margin in this game and and create mayhem for patching realms i think is the vikings only path to winning i agree yeah the only path that's what i'm saying let's let's send yeah thanks coach the ivan pace junior game where he gets four sacks defensive schematic savant matt collar hey i mean I'm just following along with what

Brian Flores actually has been doing which is just like well can't create pressure anyway any other way so everybody go after the quarterback uh but that that battle I think will be very interesting because I have not been willing to say oh you know Flores is blitzing too much or you know he's overrated or anything like. I think that he's doing the best he can with what he has and what he has changed with Mark Stavenport. And I think that that is a factor for this game. And it does give them a chance. Now, don't ask me as you're blitzing how to guard Travis Kelsey, because then I have no

idea. Yeah, I got no answers for that one. It's good. He's not that important to shut down. So we're all going yeah i know we're all going to pick kansas city to win this game because everything but what's it give me a percentage on it though like give me a percentage chance that you give the vikings like out of 100 or something to win this game i'm gonna go as high as 25 30 yeah because

whoa you're going even higher. Look at you. You're showing me up. I think it's just put on some Viking horns. I think it's far less than a coin flip, obviously. But, yeah, I think the NFL, you know, we've seen how many one-score games there are every freaking week. It's just one thing could go wrong.

The Vikings are at home. But, in general, the talent level on the Chiefs is just going to supersede all of it. The talent level at the important positions that the chiefs have is going to supersede anything. I would not bet Vikings certainly, but I would give them a decent chance. Yeah. 30% for me. And the odds are against this happening, but if the offense clicks one time throughout an entire four quarters they can they can hang with anybody that that's that's my opinion just looking at a lot of the advanced metrics watching them succeed on down and out basis it's it's possible but there are a lot of hurdles in the way of that happening Chris Jones who we spent 20 minutes on at the very

beginning and the interior offensive line is probably the biggest hurdle. And then just the ball not bouncing their way, which has been the theme of the season. I think when you have the closest thing to Randy Moss, you have a chance in any game. And look, we were all there in Buffalo last year. And I can tell you, nobody picked the Vikings against Buffalo. I feel like the most Vikings thing based on their history would be to win this game. And everyone's like, oh, my God, we're back. And then lose to Chicago at Soldier Field. That would be the most Vikings thing possible.

Why are you the way that you are? Because I've covered this team long enough. Yeah, this would be actually a replay of a movie we saw a few years ago. We have reached the point, you and I cover the team, and you'll get there unless it's Alec Lewis, point you and i covered the team and you'll you'll get there unless it's alec lewis national writer for the athletic at some point yeah you know but uh where every single thing like flashes back every game is like that you know last how many games have they played just like the carolina where you're like oh they should have beat that team

by a lot but i was flashing back to the sam darnold game where he drove them back and forced overtime at the panthers yeah because that happened two years ago because everything right it's a simulation when the kirk cousins era so every one of these has happened before and i mean of course dallas was a good team but like they beat buffalo and then get blown out the next week so uh i would give them even higher than both of you i would give them like a 45 chance bunch of homers over here 45 purple insider 45 well part of this is just that kansas city's team i think is flawed in the wrong places i think it's flawed as in i don't know how they're going to stop just Jefferson because no one can. It's flawed in the tackles that I think the Vikings have their strength of their defense in Davenport and Daniil Hunter.

These are two of the greatest athletes on earth that are going against a tackle who can't figure out how to line up and holds every other play. You really like this team. Well, I like these two players. I just want you to clip andrew's face when you said 45 i thought i was going high at 25 but you know i always see these things you know the espn analytics says your team has a four percent chance to win or something it's like i don't know like in the nfl i feel like it's all squeezed together very close like

this is not who cares state versus usc i mean this is like you've always been kind of against the analytics so well yeah i'm an anti-analytics guy the eye test told me last week that they had some trouble against uh you know the jets and i think robert sal is a guy who has great ideas and so is brian flores so i'm giving him more of a chance but i will still pick kansas city as well the vikings are a pretty flawed team as well um who had trouble with the panthers the thing you the thing i mean you guys touch on it but these games every single week i mean this this league is literally designed for these games to be close it just is and to you to the points both of you have made it just it almost

would feel very vikings for them to win this game it just it just would feel feel right we've made it 40 minutes without mentioning taylor swift what do you guys want to say about that so i i my my take my take all week we can finish on this my take all week has been well you have a take on very simple why do i do this show if i didn't imagine how boring it would be like well i guess we'll see folks yeah wow every week is just like you know who knows anything could happen that's the whole show goodbye great to see you uh with taylor swift i i the way that they have presented it has just been a lot, a lot overwhelming. Yeah.

Uh, but also it's okay. Like if, um, people who haven't liked football before get interested for a reason that's involving a pop singer, like that's fine. Uh, I will be happy probably if she's here to be in the press box and not watching the broadcast as they talk about it constantly. That's, that's been my take. I will be happy probably if she's here to be in the press box and not watching the broadcast as they talk about it constantly that's that's been my take but also don't get too mad over stuff that doesn't matter that's just in a life life advice from a podcaster slash writer who has a happy time covering football don't get too mad about stuff that doesn't matter that much

I really hope she's here because I really want to hear Tony Romo. Oh, no, I, I mean, Dane, I will feel bad for the pioneer press. They won't have a story in their Monday paper.

It won't be about the game. Anyway, I local reporter arrested. Can't get mad about, about entertainment being entertainment. I, this is, this is not,

it's not something I'm going to get worked up over, but Andrew hopefully will have a flip view. I hate to disappoint you guys. People are in Minnesota going to get mad over something that doesn't matter because she's not going to come. That's my prediction. People in Minnesota are going to get mad that she didn't deem this game, this stadium worth her time.

She slighted us. She played Dear John at one of her shows in minnesota she knew the special she knew that the environment that u.s bank offers hey she look unless she's getting paid by the nfl to be here which maybe maybe you know keep your third eye open but possibly i i think she's gonna skip this one and everybody's gonna get mad because it's flyover country midwest has thin skin and it's going to be oh my gosh we weren't worth it the level of slight that minnesotans are able to take is astounding great so i remember during the super bowl the first day where everyone started the super bowl events it was like 30 degrees and then it dropped after that

and got very cold that week but the uh i think her name is adina manzell or something like that who sung the frozen song yeah so she says something before she's singing she's performing in minneapolis and she says oh we're in minnesota and it's so cold and that's great for this song you're like it's not cold you shut up it could be minus 20 you don't even know what cold is where you from los angeles and i was like oh my god she's like the best singer like just let her do her thing let her cook let her do it let the frozen lady go no no people are gonna get mad about it because look we're colder than you and we like it yeah do you have a favorite uh song do you have a do you like do you like her music i've never asked no i had no i don't yeah i just i recognize the name because that song was

everywhere for years yeah are you gonna clip this if I do a singing? You can sing if you are. Our song is a slamming screen door. She's good. Taylor's good. Again. There you go. Oh, I thought you were talking about Idina Menzel.

She's really good. I'm not a big Taylor Swift fan. Sorry. Go ahead. No, I like Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift. There's a reason she's as popular as she is. I mean, let's be honest.

She's really talented. Yeah. I mean, she puts on an incredible show. Truly. She is. It's not like she's created some AI hack to make her songs, and it's some stupid reason she's famous. Just talented. It's not some TikTok weirdo that just went viral or something.

I mean, she puts in the work. A lot of respect for her career. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she puts in the work. A lot of respect for her career. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Okay. And that's it. So I hope you enjoyed most of that. And thank you, Alec, for sitting in.

You do tremendous work, and we'll have you on the show. No, we appreciate it. Whenever Will decides he's going to blow us off because he loves the twins too much. The twins win. He's too hungover from the twins. Yeah, that's right. He actually celebrating with Royce Lewis, I think. No, yeah.

No, appreciate you having me. It's always fun. And Will will be back in his comfy chair soon. All right. Sounds good. Thanks, everybody, for watching slash listening. And we'll catch you next time.