Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A semi-emergency podcast reacting to a Danielle Hunter report

Episode Date: June 7, 2023

Matthew Coller and Sports Illustrated's Will Ragatz talk about an NFL Network report that the Vikings are getting phone calls about Danielle Hunter. Does it appear a trade is going to go down soon? Is it full rebuild mode if they move Hunter? Who enters the spotlight on the D-line if he's traded? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself. Build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, along with Sports Illustrated's Will Regetts. Will, you know, usually when we schedule a podcast, we can pretty much count on finishing that podcast and then getting a news item that we really wish we could have talked about on the podcast. But this time, the very moment we were set to record, Ian Rappaport goes on TV

and talks about Daniil Hunter's situation. And more or less, it's not anything we don't know. He doesn't have a contract extension. He's not going to make a lot of money this year. He wants to make money. Teams are calling about him. We figured this. But there was an interesting little nugget

in Ian's report in which he said that the Vikings were trying to kind of patch things over money-wise with Daniil Hunter. And I think Daniil Hunter is done with patching things over and would be right to be done with patching things over, which seems to me then that this thing is starting to move more toward a trade, or at least that's the way it sounds with this report was that your interpretation yeah it kind of was and I agree completely with your assessment that Daniil Hunter there is no reason for him to want to do continue to do this kind of our one year let's let's let's figure this year out and figure it out after like that's that's what he's been doing for three or four

years now it's just been kind of an endless situation since he signed that deal back before the 2018 season, broke out and became much better than what he was getting paid on that deal. And then it's been restructures and moving money around and the injury situations have complicated things. But the reason he's only going to make like up to $5.5 million this year is because last year, two years ago, whenever it was, they moved money up to make him happy then and kind of we'll figure it out later. So it makes sense. He's 28 now. He's turning 29 this year. There's no reason for him to want to continue this kind of one year game and then we'll figure it out. He wants a long term extension because this is kind of his last chance to cash in.

And it makes sense. He came back last back last year stayed healthy played all 17 games he was switching to an entirely new defense and still managed to be top 10 in the league in pressures and put up 10 sacks so yeah I get it I think just because the Vikings the way Rapport worded it like maybe wanted a band-aid situation just because they tried to go that route doesn't mean they can't then pivot and reach a long-term agreement with Hunter but maybe the fact that that was their first approach means that things are a little bit tense in these negotiations and maybe Hunter sees that Zedaria Smith is gone or some other things that are going on with the Vikings this offseason thinks maybe I want to be elsewhere too so it's going to be fascinating to see how this plays out we've got there's a lot of different angles to discuss i think from both sides uh and a potential deal

do you think that mandatory minicamp acts as a pseudo deadline for multiple things here i mean not for jefferson's extension but for a hunter decision a delvin cook decision which we still are just sort of sitting here waiting for and every time you know delvin cook tweets something out that everyone's like is this it is it happening is something going on here and uh who knows but daniel hunter has been very much silent on this issue as he always has been with the contract thing but you do have to feel like eventually he has to put his foot down and you can understand where he didn't have the leverage to do that before as you mentioned he had a great season last year and i think that if he had been in that system even a little longer it wouldn't have been the slow start that he had and he would

have had an even better year and maybe he's even getting talk for you know defensive mvp or something i don't know i maybe bosa would have just been too good last year but the first three four weeks was a slow start and then the the rest of it, he's absolutely fantastic. The man deserves to get paid. But doesn't it feel like the Vikings have kind of been saying, oh, darn, we just couldn't pay Patrick Peterson enough to keep him around. Ah, and oh, Adam Thielen, you know, we tried, but we just had to let him go. What a shame.

Is that happening here where they're like,ielen, you know, we tried, but we just had to let him go. What a shame. Is that happening here where they're like, well, you know, we tried to patch it over. It's sort of like the old twins thing. Like they were in on this big free agent. Are they sandbagging here with these players because they want to move on from everybody and not pay anyone? So, yeah, so you're saying maybe that's just kind of an optics thing where, hey, we tried here, but all along they were moving on pay anyone so yeah so you're saying maybe they're uh that's just kind of an optics thing where hey

we we tried here but all along they were they're moving on and and maybe moving closer to a rebuild i think it's possible i i still think they i still think they're in the middle and they haven't fully kind of committed to the rebuild because you bring harrison smith back and you wait to trade zadari smith and you still have dalvin cook on your roster and all these things i think trading daniel hunter would be a big step in that direction. And you can argue from both sides. You can argue that that would be the right thing to do because he's going to cost a lot of money. He's approaching 30. He has an injury history. You have to pay Jefferson and Hawkinson and Christian Derrissaw in a few years and all of those things. You can also argue the

other way that he's a really good player at a premium position who still hasn't turned 29 yet and was dominant last year. I mean, I hear a lot in my Twitter mentions from this. It was a lot about Zedarius Smith. Like, oh, he was terrible, you know, one half season wonder. Like, all right, he was dealing with a knee injury. He was still, like, fourth in the league in pressures or whatever it was, third or something.

He was fantastic or something he was fantastic uh and he has been one healthy it's the same thing with daniel hunter there's a lot of fans like oh you know he really started slow only had 10 sacks he wasn't dominant like he was top 10 in pressures and he and he started slow because he's changing defenses for the first time in his eight-year career like i think that's a very understandable thing when daniel hunter is healthy he is one of the most physically imposing edge rushers in the NFL and that's not just consistent pressure rates and sacks I mean he had the back-to-back 14 and a half sack seasons he would have gotten to that level in 2021 if he had stayed healthy he had like seven in the first

six games but it's also his ability to set an edge against the run and be kind of a complete player on the edge. So he is a very, very good player at a premium position. You can argue that the Vikings should find a way to work that into their timeline and into their competitive rebuild. But again, it's the money, it's all the moving pieces, the puzzle of the salary cap that makes this a tricky situation. And I can see the Vikings wanting to keep him, but also not wanting to maybe go to a certain price point that perhaps another team, a true contender or, or just a team with more cap space might be willing to do.

You could do an entire book on rationalization that fans do. And I'm not criticizing fans for doing this no i i get it i get it yeah that's what's going on there i mean it's the they're sort of preparing themselves for the pain it's kind of like how i saw some tweets when jimmy butler made the nba finals i was like well you know it wouldn't have been a good idea for the wolves to pay jimmy back then anyway like okay you know one of the picks that they got for jimmy turned into jayden mcdaniel so they made the right well there you go nailed it uh this this happens all the time with anyone who's leaving didn't need him anyway and the same thing is what happens when you have a friend of

yours who gets dumped and what do you say to them you say wow you didn't need him or you didn't need her anyway uh plenty of fish in the sea same kind of thing here well he's not worth the money and so forth like daniel hunter is absolutely marvelous as a football player and when healthy which is only two years of his career one and a half really but every other point in his career he has been fantastic but the question is if you're looking forward over the next five years, do you want to sign him to an extension that makes him one of the most expensive pass rushers in the NFL? Or do you want a second round draft pick? Which would you like?

And, you know, I think there's a really good argument for both of those things. But I will say that if they move on from Daniil Hunter, and I think the Cook thing still feels inevitable, then I mean, I don't know if you've ever watched the movie Zoolander. You ever seen it? Uh, I not sure if I have actually. Okay. Well, if you haven't anybody out there, make sure there's a scene where, uh, the two guys, Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson, who are male models, where there's like a standoff and they decide that they're going to solve it by having a walk-off and Billy Zane goes, it's a walk-off. It's a walk-off. And that's how I will feel. If they trade Daniel Hunter only it's a rebuild. It's a rebuild.

It's not a competitive rebuild. It's just the rebuild because I want you to do some math for me. I know you're a smart guy. Well, you can do this math on the, on the fly. Take the number. Okay. Here, I'm going to give you three numbers. 78. All right. Plus 70. Do that math, right?

148. We'll do it together. 178 plus 29. So that's 148 plus 29, 100. And yeah, 48, a hundred. I don't know what I said. So 177, I believe. That's how many quarterback pressures would be gone

this off season between Hunter, Smith, and Tomlinson. Because Tomlinson was fourth. I was trying to think of who the third guy was. Yeah, Dobbin. Yeah, like let's not forget. Career high in pressures for him last year, I believe. Fourth on the team. So that would be number one, two, and four.

And they would be left with number three, DJ Wanham. And then Harrison Phillips, Patrick Jones, Jordan Hicks was tied for sixth in this team in pressures. Their entire pass rush was two men plus a little bit of Delvin Tomlinson. And it will all be gone. They aren't going to hit the quarterback at all. And they're probably not going to cover anyone either. And they have to play Herbert Mahomes Hurts etc etc

that is a rebuild man you can't pressure the quarterback you don't know if they could cover anyone now personally I accept our reveal our rebuild if that's what what's going on uh because I think that's smart if you're going rebuild then go full rebuild don't go half rebuild don't go competitive rebuild fully rebuild this thing over the next couple of years and don't go half rebuild don't go competitive rebuild fully rebuild this thing over the next couple of years and don't lock yourself into a massive deal with someone who has injuries I think that that is a totally viable way of thinking about it but I also think it hurts like heck for Vikings fans to think about Daniil Hunter not being here and what's up next we kind of don't even really know yeah i i would have to guess that if 177 pressures isn't the most that's ever been departed or lost in an offseason it's up there and i would

i would say 148 just between the two that's probably never happened specifically with trades you would think like trading away 150 pressures in one offseason between two guys, two guys who were top 10, top eight in the league in that stat. And in 2019, we're literally the top two in that stat. Back when Smith was on the Packers, it would be quite something. But again, like you said, we've been talking about this for a long time. at some point that just might be a move you have to make a broad philosophical step to go into the rebuild direction clean up the salary cap books a little bit find in a replacement at edge rusher find some young guys who can do that maybe you hope andre carter or patrick jones or whoever becomes something but the tricky thing here is um i mean rapaport mentioned this in his kind of tv

report that this would have been easier before the draft if you get like a second round pick for Daniil or maybe even start a bidding war when everybody's still in the period of adding to their rosters and maybe get a good second round pick and maybe a fourth or something, whatever it ends up being. They would have had the opportunity to then address that in the draft and start to kind of build that way. I think this year, if they did it, they'd probably sign some like 34 year old free agent just to like have a semblance of a pass rush. I don't know. I mean, you can rebuild, but you still got to like play guys sort of who can who can do something and help Brian Flores out a little bit, maybe and have somebody who can get to the quarterback but yeah I don't know I don't really feel like I can truly pick a side on this I understand both sides I understand the rebuild but again I also think Daniil Hunter isn't like a 32 year old here who can't be part of a three-year time horizon. He's 28. He's missed some time injury, but you could also maybe say that he's fresher then

with fewer reps on his body. Like, I think this is a guy that could be really, really good until he's 32, 33. I mean, you've seen some pass rushers, Terrell Suggs and DeMarcus Ware, and I'm sure there's many others who have aged pretty well. I mean, it's a position where he's going to lose some of his pure just physical dominance,

but he's also a pretty technically gifted guy, strong hands, a variety of moves, and you kind of continue to grow in that as you get older. That happened with Everson Griffin and people like that. So I can also understand figuring out a way to keep Daniil Hunter here and having that be kind of an important part of the next four years because he does play a premium position and is such a good player when he's healthy I think that what this has to come down to is like any negotiation um I am wearing a hat it's a cool hat I like this hat but if you said that I had to pay a hundred dollars for this hat I'd be like no

I got it at Target for like 24 bucks like I'm not paying a hundred100 for this hat, I'd be like, no, I got it at Target for like $24. Like, I'm not paying $100 for this hat. I'm not paying $28 million for Daniil Hunter. I don't think he's Miles Garrett. I don't think he's Nick Bosa. I think he's fantastic. But I don't. And I also think that there's risk to go along with it.

So I don't think he's a defensive MVP. And if he wants to be paid like a defensive MVP, then the answer is, well, I guess we're going to have to make a trade there. There's a few other considerations to take into play here, which is number one, they might have to trade up for a quarterback in the draft next year. because I don't necessarily agree with Ian Rappaport's statement. I think it's fine that they're not doing it after, because one of the things that I think people think about on the outside world is less about timelines and more about, well, if they trade this guy, then they can't replace him. But even if you drafted someone, is that person going to be Daniil Hunter right away? Not unless you're getting Micah Parsons I mean very unlikely that that person was suddenly going to replace Daniil Hunter they were always going to have to do it by committee but I also want to talk about the guys who would replace Daniil Hunter I think you're right there's like a Melvin

Ingram out there that kind of thing who's the guy who's always like Vinnie Curry is always out there playing for some I don't know what his deal, but there's always these situational rushers who are kind of around, but there are. Bring Yannick Ngakwe back. He's still out there. Yeah, that's right. I saw that Yannick Ngakwe, but he said he's looking for a Superbowl contender.

And I don't know if I'd put this team in that category. A Daniel Hunter-less Vikings team would not be in that category. Jadevion Clowney seems to be out there every year these days, but yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the guys that are here that we know about. Well, how about we start with Marcus Davenport and they sign him. He had almost no sacks last year, but the year before good numbers, underlying numbers.

I mean, that really kind of ramps up the, Hey, I guess Marcus Davenport would have to be a guy. I mean, what, what are reasonable expectations for Marcus Davenport if Daniil Hunter goes? Yeah, I think the fact that you have him means the cupboard wouldn't be totally, completely bare. It would become a lot more difficult for Marcus Davenport. I think if Daniil Hunter is still on this roster next year, Davenport will be in a pretty good situation where he's not going to get the double teams as much.

He's not going to be the number one focus of offensive lines and offensive coordinators. And I think Saints fans talking about the rationalization, I don't think they cared too much to see Davenport go because you look at his sack total last year and there's a 0.5 right there. But if you look at the PFF stuff, and this is the Vikings fan rationalization of signing him to a one year, 13 million deal that isn't all of, all of it isn't fully guaranteed, but his pressure rates, his PFF grades, those have been pretty consistent throughout his five years with the saints. So he's a good player.

And he kind of like Byron Murphy is in that spot where he's just coming off the rookie contract. He's still in his mid twenties. He could, the best football could still be ahead of him it would be hard it would be a lot harder if he is the number one guy and he's getting a lot of focus I don't think he's anywhere near the Daniel Hunter Zedaria Smith kind of caliber he's also a slightly different player just in terms of his build and his skill set and things like that so it would be Davenport and then it would be like all right let's see what we have out of DJ Wanham in a contract year and what we have out of year three Patrick Jones.

And let's see if we can rotate Luigi Villain and Andre Carter in here and see if one of these undrafted guys from the last few years can kind of become a rotation guy. But it would not be pretty, I don't think. And you mentioned it a little bit, how past Russian coverage go hand in hand. We were already talking about, there are major, major question marks at cornerback. If you don't have Daniel Hunter putting the pressure on against this quarterback schedule. Yeah. Good luck. Brian Flores is all I will say. Folks. I've been wearing Oakley's now for a few weeks and let me tell you there is a reason that

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Try it for yourself. I've worn sunglasses in the past and I can assure you that Oakley is the best looking and best quality out there. So go on over to oakley.com for more information today. Oakley, express your style and build a look that's made for you. Yeah, there's only so much you can blitz and scheme and also if you don't have powerful or scary edge rushers or interior rushers those blitzes become a lot easier to pick up uh i think than if you have someone who is also drawing double teams and things like that uh dj wanham and patrick jones and then andre carter sort of a separate conversation because we really don't

know anything about andre Andre Carter at this point. And he looks like a very much a project, but we have seen sample sizes of DJ Wanham and Patrick Jones. Are you interested in that? Are you interested in seeing a lot more of DJ Wanham and Patrick Jones, or do you feel like you have a pretty good idea of what they are and you're just going to need other people eventually there yeah i'm not i'm not super interested in it which would would maybe be a reason why self selfishly i would just like to watch janeal hunter continue to play football and then cover him

because he is really fun to watch uh dj wanham is like one of the weirder situations in terms of sack numbers and like how valuable those actually are because he had like eight sacks in 2021 or 2020 and then you you throw on the all 22 and you watch all of them and it's just like oh he nobody blocked him here oh the quarterback scrambled for six seconds and then he pushed him out of bounds two yards behind the line of scrimmage like there's just really not many of the high quality variety where you beat your guy off the line and you take the quarterback down within three seconds or whatever. So entering year four, I mean,

I think there's always the little like potential contract year boost, but to me, he completely is what he is. He's a serviceable number three or number four rotational guy who does have some athletic tools. Patrick Jones, I think, has a tiny bit more upside. We have one year less of sample size, and he had a little bit more kind of college production. He had, I think, like a 10-sack season at Pitt. And then like four sacks last year, and he showed some things.

Do I think that he's ever going to be in a good starting edge rusher? I'm a little skeptical. I think it is more possible than it is with Wanham, I would say. But yeah, I think if you're going to go into rebuild, those are going to be the guys you're going to play because those are the guys you have. You might as well figure out what you have in them. But I don't think those are your starting edge rushers.

I don't think either one is a starting edge rusher for you in an ideal world in three or four years on a second contract yeah I generally agree I mean we have seen players in the past take big steps forward you mentioned Everson Griffin but there's just such a difference in Everson Griffin's athleticism from these guys uh both are decent athletes Everson Griffin is one of the greatest athletes who's ever stepped on planet earth. Like I truly believe that. I mean, you're talking about a guy that when he came out is like 260 pounds and runs a four or five and played special teams as a gunner when he was young in his career. I mean, he could do absolutely anything. And his quickness is beyond almost any player that was in the NFL at his prime. That's not a way that I would describe

either one of these guys. They, to me, strike me as very similar to our old friends, Afadi Adenabo and Steven Weatherly, who were serviceable players in small doses, but the more that you play them, the more that their shortcomings are revealed. And I agree with what you said about Patrick Jones. Our sample size is smaller. So I'm interested in seeing more of him to see if there is a step to be taken because he does have, you know, some instincts there. And I thought that he had some splash plays last year that stuck out to me on tape. So I'm more interested in that. And I think just in general, I, I would view this if they trade Daniel Hunter as quasi Adolfo Mensah's,

I am the captain now moment as like right now they're still a little bit towing the line of you got a couple of veteran edge rushers Dean Lowry comes in a veteran defensive tackle Harrison Phillips veteran and then you know Harrison Smith is still there and you've got some other players that there's intrigue like the corners and you know we'll see what happens with the safety position and so forth so it's a little bit split still it's leaning more toward young players but still a little split Byron Murphy's a veteran player if Daniil Hunter goes it's it's going to look like it's all unproven players essentially and I don't mind that I don't have a problem with that I think that's where you should be and I also on the whole would be very impressed with a general manager saying yeah I know we won 13 games that's not

real we need to act like we're living for today and tomorrow not trying to chase 13 more wins from last year and if they convince the Wilfs that that's okay to do I'm also impressed and it will kind of remind me of 2017 Washington where Kirk was, where a lot of pieces in that roster left and they went like seven and nine and then Kirk left Washington. It'll kind of be a little bit like that

if they don't give Cousins another extension. I also think- That's a really a reassuring thing for Vikings fans given what they've done over the past five or six years. Well, your owner isn't Daniel Snyder like it was there so I don't expect you to change your name to the worst name in sports history either the Washington Commanders uh though the Washington Wizards also have a case but anyway I I just think I would be impressed with a team very much living in reality which we asked them to do for years under Rick Spielman.

And in 2020, they traded for Yannick Ngakwe. And we all went, what? Why? Like, this is not who you are. A transition year is okay. And I think in that case, a transition year is okay. So even though it would be really rough for him to go out the door,

I'll spend a year finding out if Wanham or Jones can play. That's all right. They probably can't be starters but let's find out yeah that was we were just talking about that the other day at OTAs the Rick Spielman panic trades and the uh the Chris Herndon and Yannick Ngakwe and Corey Vedvik and all those that was it was something but no I agree I think think if if Daniel Hunter is traded, you're right. It would be the biggest moments kind of signifying a change that we've seen so far. There have been some big ones. I mean, Eric Hendricks and Adam Thielen are Vikings legends who have been here for eight plus years, 10 years in Thielen's case.

But they are both looking a little bit washed. Not maybe that's that's a harsh word, a little bit less than their prime the last couple of years, last year specifically. So that like sort of made sense. Hunter is a guy who's come. It was still very much in his prime is coming off a great season. I mean, Zedaria Smith, too, but he was here for one year and he's a little bit older. Patrick Peterson, similar thing. Daniel hunter has been here for eight seasons he is one of the great success stories of the last couple decades for the vikings finding this guy who had minimal college production taking him in the third round and developing him into a three-time pro bowler who was the youngest player in nfl history to ever reach 50 career sacks. Like he is a fantastic player.

He's a mainstay of this defense and he is still in his prime currently. So if, if they were to make that move and trade him, that to me would totally signify, all right, this is real. We are, we are taking a different direction here.

We're not going to live. We're not going to live in the competitive rebuild to the same extent anymore. And maybe there would be some of that still. Cause I don't think that that would mean they're not going to live in the competitive rebuild to the same extent anymore and maybe there would be some of that still because I don't think that that would mean they're suddenly going to like start fielding offers for Justin Jefferson and TJ Hawkinson and people like that too you're still going to keep some of your foundational pieces but yeah that that to me would really it would be an eye-opener and I'm with you I would not immediately react and say oh my god that's

crazy what are you doing I would understand it again and I would also understand if they were able to work out a deal for Hunter at a price that isn't like 27 million a year so it's gonna be fascinating to see how this works out we've got the the big three as I've been referring to them just basically to myself and nobody else for a while now, Jefferson, Cook, and Hunter. And you got to think we're going to get a resolution on one or two, if not all of them, pretty soon, like this month with Mandatory Minicamp coming up in a week. Yeah, as we're recording this, I'm nervous.

Should I be scrolling Twitter? At any moment. I've got the Jefferson extension. I do, but I've got the Jefferson extension've got the Twitter extension. I do, but I've got the Jefferson extension story and the cook traded story already pre-written. So we'll, we'll see. You just have to fill in where he's traded to and how many dollars Justin Jefferson is getting. There's some, it's going to be a lot in bold. Yeah. It's going to be a lot. Yeah. I totally agree with what you said that this one's very different. It's very different because every other guy you could go, well, look, I mean, Patrick

Peterson was older. He's probably not going to repeat what he did. Hey, by the way, between Duke Shelly and Patrick Peterson, you're also losing 19 past breakups and six interceptions just so everybody's keeping track of the scorebook at home of how many pressures. And, uh, so now you've only got, you know, a handful of guys who even played last year. How many stats you're losing from a defense that was already terrible.

Right, right. The only things they did well was the splash plays between their edge rushers and between Duke Shelley and Patrick Peterson. And that's going to be potentially all gone. So we'll see how that ends up playing out. But I have a follow-up question about that before we get into some of the stuff that you just noticed at OTAs from being there.

If you trade Daniil Hunter, do you start making phone calls to the San Francisco 49ers about Kirk or anyone? I mean, but the 49ers are just the most obvious team. They're pumping up Brock Purdy. I understand why they're doing that. And Brock Purdy might be great. And they might say he's their franchise quarterback.

But at the same time, they want to go to the Super Bowl. And they've had so many problems keeping these guys healthy in years past. If you go into such an epic rebuild mode that you have let 177 pressures, six interceptions, and 19 pass breakups go on defense you're not winning anything with that defense which is okay to have a transition season and your offense is set up to bring in a young quarterback because all your offensive pieces your running back room your wide receiver room is not kj osborne's like the oldest guy in this room he's 25 years old he's the oldest guy in the receiver room right am i wrong i think that's right i think like technically brandon powell or somebody's old but yes he's the oldest like yeah i don't know if

he's in the receiver room or not then we'll find out in camp that's true uh tj hockinson is young everybody the offensive line is young everybody's young it's all set up for a younger quarterback to be in here. If you are going to take apart this many pieces, would it not be time to also change quarterbacks, even though it seems weird as heck to do it in the middle of the summer? No, I mean, I've been, I've been in on the idea specifically of calling the 49ers about Trey Lance for, for a while. I've thought it just makes a lot of sense. It's not ideal in terms of the rookie contract thing because he was drafted two years ago, but you'd still have a couple years to evaluate.

And you just, with quarterbacks, you just need to like take chances. And I mean, we saw the Cardinals do it twice in a few years where they drafted Josh Rosen and they draft Kyler Murray. And you just, you could argue that every team that isn't that doesn't have that guy should be trying again and again until they find him even if that is like malik willis in the third round or whatever like i understand what the titans were doing with that and then taking will levis again i you know what you're taking chances to find that guy you're probably not going to find it outside of the

first round but guess what trey lance was the third overall pick I think second or third or something like that third yeah third yeah he like we haven't seen him play very much he could still be the guy that was drafted third overall for a reason I think I wrote about this a few months ago that from the 49ers perspective it could make sense because Kirk Cousins Kyle Shanahan relationship all that Kirk Cirk cousins the most durable quarterback in the league i don't think it's physically possible for him to get injured i shouldn't have said that it's a dumb thing to jinx but like he is he is very very durable and the 49ers have not had that they had to install a new rule this offseason because the 49ers ran out of quarterbacks in a conference championship game like they could really use kirk cousins from that perspective.

I would get it from there. And to some extent, the other argument is, you know, you just had Brock Purdy do what he did. Why do you need to get a really expensive guy? But I digress. From the Vikings perspective, I think it absolutely would make sense if you trade Daniel Hunter to start looking into, I think Kirk Cousins is really the last big kind of veteran domino. Harrison Smith is just kind of chilling here towards the back end of his career.

He's probably not going to want to be traded somewhere else. You're not going to get that much for a 34-year-old safety. It's Kirk Cousins. And if you bring Trey Lance in, you can see what you have in him and see what Kevin O'Connell would be able to do with a young quarterback with a lot of tools. And then if it doesn't work out, guess what? You're probably pretty bad. Trade up with the pick you got from Hunter and go draft another one next year.

The logic is very much there. And can you accept if you're the Vikings, the possibility that it does blow up? I think at this point, the answer has to be yes, that you do have to accept that because you really have no other choice. I mean, the other way to go about it would be to extend Kirk, play out this year, win whatever number of games you can, maybe compete still in the division, though without Hunter, it's going to be pretty darn tough. It's going to be 2020, very likely over again if you don't have Daniil daniel hunter and so you end up let's say you win like eight games or something you

miss the playoffs and then you kind of look around and go what was that all for like what progress did we really make and i mean that kind of seems like a likely scenario at this point if they do end up trading daniel hunter and of course delvin cook isn't here and all those other players that you are gonna wake up next year and go what did we do that for like what was that season just was it was there a point to it I mean last year the point was proving that Kevin O'Connell could coach and it was turning around the culture of the building and it was competing in an NFC North that was atrocious and and and all those things were worth it. I questioned a lot of 2021. What were those seasons worth?

Right. What were those seasons for? And I questioned a lot of the moves last year of like, are you sure you want to do this? Because the next year you're just going to have to do the inevitable teardown. I would say it ended up being worth it for them to push their chips to the middle of the table and bring back Peterson and keep everybody because they got a really great season out of it. But it's, I mean, at this point we're already past go and you might as well make that phone call. And if they hadn't already been reported to have had some conversations with some people about the Trey Lance thing and everything else,

then I probably wouldn't even bring it up. But if they move on from Hunter, this is a barren wasteland on defense and on offense. There's still a lot of unproven parts. The running back room, Jordan Addison, the interior, the offensive line, there's still a lot of find out. We think we know that offense is going to be great, but it might not be. I mean, if they still can't run the ball, if they don't improve the interior pass blocking, if Jordan Addison isn't ready right away, then I win a milkshake from Andrew Kramer. And they're also going to struggle to pass the ball the same way that they

did before. So, I mean, the milkshake bet is just KJ versus Jordan Addison. I'm not saying he's a boss. It's just catches. That's all. Just so people understand I was behind the Jordan Addison pick.

All right. I don't want that to be misinterpreted. The whole point is that why with so many unproven parts out of the roster out of 22 starters what do we got like 16 that are unproven that sounds like you don't need a 35 year old quarterback who's making a ton of money and probably would like to go somewhere to compete for a super bowl if that was possible whether it could all happen i don't know this could all change in a second they could bring back daniel hunter they could extend jeff Jefferson they could sign a couple people and they could be right back into win now mode three weeks from now and I think that's what makes this offseason

so weird Will is because we kind of haven't really gone through this much before even with the Yannick Ngakwe thing it kind of came out of nowhere but that's the only other time I can remember them being unpredictable yeah it's it's it's so fascinating because we've we've been talking justifiably about the possibility of a rebuild a month ago when the schedule came out I probably overly optimistically predicted them to win 11 games and win the division so like this is not a team that is completely devoid of talent they won 13 games last year even if they shouldn't i think that this was this was pre-zadaria smith getting traded pre reports that daniel hunter could get traded and all that but i think it's still a talented team i think bringing in brian

flores was will be a massive upgrade at defensive coordinator provided he has some talent at his disposal uh and i do think the offense while there there are some questions, I mean, it's pretty loaded. A lot of the key positions, you have the best wide receiver in football. You added another really promising rookie wide receiver. You have one of the best tackle duos in football, the running back position. You're probably better off by moving the guy who was dead last in rush yards over expectation last year and saving money there. Like, I think it'll be fine with Alexander Madison and, and, and whoever else back there. So there's questions, but there's talent on offense, which could help this year,

but it also really, and you talked about it, the youth of the offense, Brian O'Neill at 27, who's under contract for a bunch more years. It's like the oldest guy on this offense who matters outside of Kirk Cousins so you're set up so well to potentially bring in a rookie quarterback with the offensive pieces you have the best receiver in football great tackles a from from a one-year sample size of last year a a really good offensive head coach you're set up so well that it makes sense to really explore that possibility and I think if they trade Daniel Hunter, that's a step closer to what some fans I think have wanted for a while and what we've been talking about for a while, which is just taking that step, trying to get out of purgatory and find a path that will lead you to sustained contention. Let it be 2014

for you again. 2014, I think was a kind of a fun year for Vikings fans. They didn't make the playoffs, but Zimmer was fresh and Teddy Bridgewater was new. And there was a lot of pieces where you're talking about who's going to stay, who's going to be a part of this, who's going to matter. And I think that could be a really fun and interesting year. And then if they overachieve and a lot of people take big steps forward then wow okay look all the things you have which kind of is what happened in 2015 for the vikings but you don't really do that with an older veteran quarterback and it's kind of like you know the raiders went out and got jimmy garoppolo and really they should have tried to trade up and draft bryce young right i mean they should have just done that as opposed to trying to fill

that spot because the Raiders are the team that's like this. And I think that's a great point about the youth. You actually, because of the age of the team, you can do this. Like this isn't where, oh man, you got to get those last couple of years out of this elite receiver or something. Justin Jefferson is going to be good for a really long time. And the only concern, I guess, is Justin Jefferson going to sign when he sees everybody go out the door. But it's too late for that. He's already seen everybody go out the door. He already knows the deal.

Also, it's really beneficial for him money-wise to sign as well. And then three years from now, he can decide whether he wants to force a trade or something. But the NFL kind of makes sure those rookies, if their team wants them, they're going to stay there. Well, so we made it 37 minutes to start on the topic that I had originally planned for, which was to ask you your observations from OTAs. What did you write about? What were you thinking about as we were watching? Because it's very hard to evaluate, but I thought this last practice, we could actually pick up on quite a few things because they really practiced yeah i think each of the three that we got to see we got to see a little more each time which which was nice and this last one um i mean

all throughout there's been notable absences the big three um they've they've kind of given given some vet days to Harrison Smith and Jordan Hicks and players like that here and there but I think the receivers are always the easiest to watch and pay attention to and kind of that depth battle has been really interesting to me with no Jefferson Jordan Addison is dealing with a minor injury so we haven't seen him yet since rookie minicamp um KJ Osborne like is just clearly the best guy out there and like Kirk Cousins security blanket. And he looks like a guy who might catch more passes than Jordan Addison this year and when you have milkshake perhaps.

So he's looked good, but like that was something I already kind of expected from watching him the last couple of years. I think the leadership angle is, is a cool one with Osborne and how he's taking on more there. But to it's like the Jalen Naylor's I think I think if I if I'm picking one winner or standout of those three practices it's Jalen Naylor and he he looks like an NFL almost starting caliber wide receiver with his speed and his hands and his ability to attract the ball and run routes and do all of those things, which is a promising development.

I mean, you got to see it on the field this year, but from a guy who was a sixth round pick last year, I just, I think he has something he can offer to this offense because he ran a four or five, but like his nickname is Speedy. And he's apparently been, the tracking data has had him much faster than that back when he was at Michigan State.

Like, I don't think he's a four or five guy. He just, he looks more like a four or four guy to me. I think he brings a downfieldfield element a big play ability average like 19 yards of catches last two seasons at Michigan State so I'm curious to see him if he's in that number four role then you know what he's not only maybe going to be mixed in in some packages that can use his speed whether you're throwing it to him or just kind of using his gravity deep down the field. Or in addition to that, he would also be in line to be a top three receiver. If, say, Jordan Addison, who weighs 170 pounds and had an ankle injury last year, had to miss some time. So that's an important thing to watch. And then even further down, I just like watching the Tristan Jacksons.

And if can Jalen Rager have a last stand or something? So the receivers are interesting to me. And then also defensively, I think just watching Brian Flores defense, ever since we got our first look at it, even back in like rookie minicamp, it's just these OTAs have been, we've seen a lot from kind of the movement and the,

and the multiple NIS, the multiplicity of Brianrian flores defense the aggressiveness of it we've heard from players on both sides of the ball about that uh i think the way they use the defensive backs josh metellus is somebody that's really stood out um where he's not only been used kind of splitting reps with cam bynum and lewisine and such at safety but also as a third safety area with, with six defensive backs on the field and just there, there,

it seems like they're finding ways to get him involved beyond just special teams. So I would say those are two of the biggest storylines that have jumped out at me so far. Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think that the secondary and the wide receiver depth is going to be

center stage when it comes to the training camp and what we've gotten is a little bit of a preview and with jaylen nailer if he was a rookie and we didn't see him get on the field at all last year i might go i don't know i mean it's you know no pads or whatever but we did see him flash a couple of times they may have been in blowout situations but he did run by somebody he did make a play out there on the actual field. And is there more where that's coming from? I think that actually Jefferson's absence and Addison's injury have helped a lot of guys sort of make their case and say, I'm also here.

Tristan Jackson is one of them. Jalen Rager, we're going to need a bigger sample size there. But I will say, of all the players they've ever tried to trade for right before the season it's never worked i don't remember anybody working i mean the tremaine brocks of the world where some people thought that they had done it to replace trey wayne's like what the guy doesn't even know the defense what are we talking about here uh so usually those second trades never work i can't think of one they i mean they had to like they picked up shelly and tonga like on waivers but that's different um yeah i can't i can't i can't think of one yeah and they ended up being like role players that were successful but there's

uh there's been a lot of guys to at least get a kind of a sneak peek of where everyone's playing the lewis scene thing is a story but it's also not a panic button story. And we were talking about this a little bit last night. Like what, what date does Louis scene need to be playing next to Harrison Smith before you go? Oh yeah. I don't think it's, I don't think it's this month because then it would just be the two days of mandatory mini camp next week. I don't,

I don't expect a major change and just for context for people like it was it was harrison smith and then it was kind of camp behind him and josh matelis and then it was lewis seen uh in these most recent otas and he was out there with uh like patrick jones and brian asuma in the uh in the second unit when they were doing their situational drill at the end of practice so it it is a story. I think, I don't know, first weekend in August was when it would start to be, like maybe a weekend to August or so. It would start to be notable to me

because as we've talked about before, Cam Bynum and Josh Metellus are a bar to clear. But as a former first round pick with a ton of athletic ability, that shouldn't really be that high of a bar to clear with if as a former first round pick with a ton of athletic ability that shouldn't really be that high of a bar to clear with no disrespect to either of those guys who are nfl safeties um yeah i i would say about a week in august that starts to be a story so just file that one away don't don't worry about it now just keep it in mind for a few months down the line

i was gonna go august 15th and give it even a little more leeway because of returning from injury, even though he's been healthy. But if they start playing preseason games and he's playing every snap of preseason games, then it's time to get concerned. But I agree with you. Not yet.

Patience has been a consistent theme of our podcasts over the last couple of weeks. So we'll have minicamp next week. You and I will have a reaction from that. And then it is officially summertime and we'll see how much happens between now and then. But this was fun. A little like juice injected right into the show

right before we went on. Thank you to Ian Rappaport for that. So was there anything else that you wanted to mention from OTAs or are you good? No, I think that was it. Greg Joseph and the rookie kicker from Georgia. And that's the show. Made all their kicks.

No, we, yeah, we went, we got, we got 45 minutes here without any news hitting the Twitter alerts. And hopefully that won't happen for a little while. So everyone can, can enjoy the show without it being outdated. Yeah. So thanks. Thanks everyone. Yeah.

Thanks. Well, as always, and thanks everyone for listening and we'll see when we get that news, but a reminder to everybody listening that when there's breaking news, emergency pods, we'll go live on YouTube. So make sure you go subscribe to the YouTube page.

All right. Sounds good. Well, we will talk soon. Football.