Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A Vikings themed tribute to John Madden

Episode Date: December 30, 2021

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill get together to talk about the passing of John Madden. They talk about what Madden meant to shaping their love of football, memories of him calling games with Randy Moss and other NFL legends and the legacy of the Madden video game. Tickpick.com/insider Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Want to remind you before we get started, the TickPick is the exclusive ticketing partner of Purple Insider and the Blue Wire Network. TickPick should be your first choice to buy football tickets because they save fans money by never charging service fees ever. hello welcome to a very special episode of purple insider matthew collar here with my very good friend and purple insider historian, Manny Hill. And Manny, I wasn't going to do a podcast today because earlier today, my brother got married. I was at the wedding, but now that it's over, I sent you a text and I said, you know what, Manny,

we have to talk about John Madden. We have to, because John Madden passed away at the age of 85, just a few days after a documentary came out, going through his entire life, which was amazing. And I know you haven't seen it yet, but you absolutely have to. And everybody else, too, if you get an opportunity to see it, it is so good. And I wanted to talk with you about our memories of John Madden and what he meant to football.

And then I'll get, you know, maybe a take from you or two about the green Bay Packers. But, uh, when Madden passed away, I knew I wanted to do an episode on it because John Madden was so meaningful to me and shaping how I watch and love football. And I know the same applies to you. And you were the first one I thought of like, who do I want to talk with this about on the show, Manny, uh, because we see things a lot of the same way, uh, Manny. So why don't we just start with when you were growing up, and I know what a freak you were for football growing up, by the way, that you talk about the same era of football with me. But did you feel like then, because I know I did,

how special it was to have John Madden calling all of the biggest moments, the Super Bowls, the Thanksgiving Day games, because I feel like one of the great things about John Madden calling all of the biggest moments, the Super Bowls, the Thanksgiving Day games, because I feel like one of the great things about John Madden is that we knew as it was happening, as he's calling the games, how special it was and how irreplaceable and unique John Madden was. Yeah. You know, when I, I just remember being a Vikings fan growing up and, you know, the Vikings in the 90s, when I started, you know, really getting into football in the mid 90s, you know, the Vikings were a good team. They were coached by Denny and, you know, Warren Moon was there and they had Reed and Carter, Terry Allen, and then eventually Robert Smith in the backfield. And they were a good team. They were going to the playoffs every year.

But they weren't, you know, Madden and Summerall, they were the A team on CBS, you know, covering the NFC. And then when Fox got the NFC rights, they went over and they became the A team on Fox. So they were always doing the big games every Sunday, the biggest games of the week. So they didn't, you know, the Vikings were good, but the Vikings weren't great in the nineties. So Madden Summerall weren't always doing those games. They were always doing the Cowboys and the 49ers and the Packers and things like that. Um, but you know, there were a couple of times where they would get a Vikings game. And I was like a kid in the candy store because I knew even as a kid, I knew Madden Summerall were the top guys. They were the top dogs. And I was always just so excited when they were going to do a Vikings game because I wanted to hear Pat Summerall talk about Chris Carter and Jake Reed and Robert Smith. And, you know, eventually in the late nineties when Randy Moss came around.

So that was always special to me because when they were doing those games. And again, like I said, it wasn't, it might've been one or two times a year at the most when Madden and Summerow were doing Vikings game, but when they were, it was special because you knew everybody's watching your team, your favorite team, and the best guys in the business were talking about your team so that was that was always special to me that was kind of my first

impression of John Madden and Pat Summerall too for that matter when they were doing those uh handful of Vikings games in the 90s when I really remember Madden starting to talk about Randy Moss specifically, which is just a special combination of the greatest broadcaster with the greatest wide receiver emerging on Thanksgiving day against Dallas Cowboys. And after the game, Randy is saying, I want to talk to John Madden. I want to talk to John Madden and throughout the game, you know, Madden, one of the things that I absolutely loved about his style was that he would just marvel at greatness, you know, that, you know, Randy Moss's performance there. He says something like, you know, are you guys up there or something?

And he's like, you're up here with the way that you've produced. There's this little back and forth of Madden and Randy Moss and watching Moss run by the Dallas Cowboys. And you say, look, look you know they got two guys on them and everything else and i know that eventually by the end of his career a lot of people frank caliendo of course a lot of people parodied madden um remember mad tv was a thing uh and they they did one of their own with uh it might have been frank caliendo or somebody with the you know oh you know you're cooking popcorn and burning your fingers and boom and all. And, and I enjoyed all of that stuff,

but where it was rooted was always his just like childlike love for greatness in football. And we'll talk about the offensive line stuff, but that day Thanksgiving, the whole world is watching. I'm, I'm watching randy moss emerge as a i don't know 12 year old or something and to have him narrate the careers of randy moss and troy acheman and brett farve and the guys who show up in the documentary talking about how basically he's the voice of their career i think that what it did was just instill so much joy for the game and how much fun

this could be because a lot of times, and this still exists is that commentary is just so stiff. And I liked this about Dan Deardorff, but he was like, not John Madden, you know, Deardorff was the same way though, where a linebacker comes through and gets stuffed by a fullback and Deardorff just loses it. Or Madden just loses it when Larry Allen is flying down the field at 350 pounds, blocking people on a screen. And I don't even know how many people I could say that have ever done broadcasting who had such a genuine joy for watching the players like Randy Moss.

And, you know, the, the, the thing I'll bring up too is, and you've seen me do this on Twitter multiple times is that Cowboys Eagles game in 95 where the Cowboys run the exact same play on fourth and one twice in a row the first time it didn't count because the two-minute warning hit and Madden is just losing it because number one he can't believe that the Cowboys are going for it on fourth and one at their own 30 in a tie game with two minutes left. But then you add in that the Cowboys, they get a break. They get to run the play again.

And then they turn around and they run the exact same play. And he's just, they don't get it. Emmitt gets stuffed for no gain. And he's just like, they run the play again. This is unbelievable. What the heck is going on? And he's just losing it and then at the end before they go to break he just goes oh they deserve to lose but that was that's what

made him so great because to your point he he loved greatness and he just loved football and on the flip side you could tell how much he loved football because when teams did things like that like what Barry Switzer and the Cowboys did that day he was livid he couldn't believe it and I think that really highlights just how much passion and how much love just for not only just great players but the game itself that that John Madden had that's such a good point is that every game seemed really important to him and he would hang on every play and every detail. And yet at the same time has so much intensity about the game. And then that clip is so good. They deserve to lose. It's so good. And there's so many great moments with him that are like that, where Matt, and I mean, the only way to describe it is just losing it, just going completely over

the top with whatever subject he sort of latched himself onto. This used to happen, talking about greatness with like Marshall Falk. I remember that Madden was so obsessed with Marshall Falk that I believe it was the NFC championship game 98. I kept a tally of how many times he said Marshall Falk, which was somebody pointed this out was one of the great things about John Madden is that if he really loved the player, he said their whole name, he never called them Brett and he never called them Favre. He called it Brett Favre. Brett Favre. Yeah. Brett Favre. Now you see this Brett Favre. And, uh, I think he would along the way also not only bring like that energy to it, but sort of, uh, I mean, offensive lineman

mentality and you guys who listen here, Jeremiah Searles all the time and how funny he can be. And that was the same thing is like as serious as this is and is how much this man is obsessed with this sport and everything about it. He would always take time to laugh and have fun with Pat Summerall. And, and I want to talk about that, too, in their relationship. But that to me, I mean, it's almost stat mean is a stupid game we play and everything. Like all the dumb things that we do are sort of my version of drawing on the screen like Madden did. And I think that that just made it so much fun. And you and I were the perfect age to be enjoying stuff that was like that.

You know, I would encourage the listeners of this podcast, if you have not done it, and this is the beauty of YouTube because you can just, there's so much stuff on YouTube now that you can go back and find. If you have a chance to go on YouTube and just find anything from Pat Summerall and John Madden from the late 80s when they were on CBS doing the NFC games all the way to the mid 90s, mid to late 90s when they transitioned to Fox and still doing NFC games. Just go back and watch highlights from the games that they called. It is broadcasting gold. The dynamic between that partnership and, you know, when Summerall retired, you know, Madden went over to ABC

and teamed up with Al Michaels, and they were together for seven years, even in the transition to NBC. And, you know, they were fine. But Madden and Summerall just had this really special, unique partnership, and they were together for 21 seasons. They did eight Super Bowls together. And I think just the dynamic of Summerall's being sort of the monotone, very professional play-by-play man and Madden's just flamboyant, expressive, just passionate excitement for football.

You know, they were kind of personality-wise, they were kind of polar opposites, at least on the air, what they presented on the air. But it was just a perfect combination. It was so great. And again, like I would just tell people, anything from the mid to late 80s into the 90s with Summerall and Madden it's just it is broadcasting gold it's beautiful to watch I tweeted out my favorite game from those two from 1998 because they had been doing it together for so long but they still had their fastball and that was the game between the Green Bay Packers and the San Francisco 49ers the playoffs where Terrell Owens makes the unbelievable catch to win the game and also

catch to Jerry Rice fumbles in the game, which sparked the return of instant replay, I believe was because it was such an obvious fumble and the referees didn't see it. But Kevin Gogan plays in that game. And again, it speaks to how much he just loved offensive linemen. And I wanted to discuss this with you, Manny. Kevin Gogan is this gigantic guard. It was like six, eight. And he called them. He wouldn't call him Kevin Gogan. He would call him big old Kevin Gogan. So every time it was like, and you see big old Kevin Gogan moving this guy or whatever. And, you know, I really think that we've seen pro football focus play a role in this too recently, but John Madden, I think is at the center of pointing out to people what the offensive line actually does.

I mean that I don't know that there was any other broadcaster before who was willing to circle a left guard and say like, this is what the left guard was doing. And this is why this play worked. And we realized, especially as we've watched the Vikings for the last number of years, that offensive linemen and their value and how important the game inside the trenches is at all times. And I think that Madden really sort of made me think about that and made me

appreciate that and look for it and, and want to bring it to the show and want to discuss it. And one of the things that I think he proved and that has really carried over here is that we can have a long discussion about an offensive lineman. And I think football fans enjoy that. And they want to know that. They want Jeremiah Searles to break down Ezra Cleveland.

And I don't know that John Madden is the only reason for that, but he's the first guy I ever remember and maybe the only guy still to have that mentality to want to point out the blocking and how much it matters to running and everything else and that bears out in the statistics for sure and then pro football focus takes that to the next level by putting numbers on it but I think my own appreciation and focus on the offensive line and I think a lot of fans the same way comes from John Madden the telestrator man the telestrator was I mean and and and look Madden

wasn't the only guy who used the telestrator but he was what he made it fun he made it fun to talk about offensive linemen because you know if there was the one I think you you sent it to me on Twitter it was either earlier this year or last year or something it was like the Bills the Bills were playing somebody and it was the Thurman Thomas days and Jim Kelly and all them and and it was like a screenshot of Madden drawing out what the Bills offensive line was doing on a on a touchdown run for for Thurman Thomas he had the left guard was pulling out to the to the left and doing all this stuff and I and I'm just seeing this screenshot and I'm picturing Madden drawing on the telestrator and just breaking it down for Pat Summerow she bet the the left guard

he's going to pull out here and when he pulls out here there's a hole that's going to open up and Thurman Thomas is going to follow that hole. And when Thurman Thomas follows that hole, he goes right in there to the, to the end zone. That was a great play designed by the bills like that. That was just, he just made it so much fun. And, uh, he was just such a unique, unique character, a unique personality. And, uh, I, I, I, you know, it's, it was just, it was just a joy to continue to watch him for so many years. Hey everybody, Minnesota football is in full swing and there is no need to exhaust yourself searching all over the internet for Minnesota football tickets because TickPick, that is T-I-C-K, P-I-C-K, is the original no-fee ticket site. It's the only one you'll ever need as your go-to for football tickets.

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for Minnesota tickets. That's TickPick.com slash insider, because you can save $10 on your first order for Minnesota tickets. That's TickPick.com slash insider. And I wanted to mention too, I know that you haven't seen the documentary yet, but there's two things in the documentary that really stuck out to me that speak to the genuineness of John Madden, which I think is what all this connects to that. If you are a shtick, I think people figure that out. Um, if you know, if you're, I don't, I don't want to take shots at anybody, but like, you know, sometimes the Tony Romo thing feels like he's going over the top on purpose and that kind of thing. And you're like, is that, are you really excited? Or is that just like someone

told you to yell more? And like, I don't know. I don't mind Romo. I'm not upset about it. I don't actually, I feel like I don't get to see many more people other than Chris Collinsworth all the time because I'm covering games. And so I end up, that's the only broadcast I end up listening to these days, but the genuineness is a huge part of it. And what they displayed so well was two things I thought to, to demonstrate it. One, uh, one of the sideline reporters who was a kind of a first time sideline reporter with him, she was in her twenties still,

and it was Al Michaels, the Al Michaels time with John Madden. And she got a lot of kind of airtime talking about her relationship with Madden and how welcome he made her feel as someone coming in much younger than him, nowhere near as accomplished. It's Al Michaels. There's another legend. And my thought was she didn't have to agree to the interview and she didn't have to tell all these stories if he hadn't treated her well. And that's someone that you could treat poorly when you're a mega star like John Madden, the stories of him going to all the small towns and talking to people about football. Like the guy just, you know, wanted to go to every town and

talk to fans there about football. Uh, and the, you know, that was, that was one for sure. Um, and let's see the, Oh, the other one was the bus driver. He, they had his bus driver for the Madden bus, which I thought, which I thought was the same thing. It was like it, that guy didn't have to go on TV and do interviews and things like that. And it just, when you can find a way to take, you know, even behind the curtain looks at someone like that. Um, and then you connect it to what they did in the, in the broadcast booth and as a coach and everything else. Um, that's, that's really special. I think about him. But I was going to ask you about the Madden video game because I started playing Madden at probably seven years old,

I would say, and had played it ever since. How did that, or what did that mean to you? The, the Madden video game, when you were growing up? I mean, it, it got me into football, really. I mean, I wasn't into football. I never played football ever in my life. But the first Madden game I ever played was Madden 93 on the Sega Genesis. And I was eight years old.

And I didn't own it. One of my neighborhood friends at the time, owned it, and he would bring it over to my house, and we would play it. When I started playing, I knew nothing about football. I didn't know about first down, fourth down, kicking field goals, touchdowns. I heard all of this stuff, but I didn't know what any of it meant. It helped me understand football a lot more. And then, um, eventually Madden 94 was the first Madden game that I ended up owning. And, um, it was just, uh, it, it really influenced my,

my love for, for football and, and playing, playing the video game and also watching Madden on TV called the biggest games of the week every week. Um, it just, it, it just drew me into the sport so much. And yeah, I mean, I've, I've played it every year. I think I can probably count on three fingers, the Madden games that I did not own at one point in my life since I actually started playing the game. But yeah, I mean, there was a stretch where every year I had every Madden game every single year for about 20 years straight. And so, yeah, I mean, it was amazing. There were, you know, certainly some some years where it was just great and some years where the game wasn't so great you know i go back to probably i think that that era where vick was on the cover all the

way till when vince young was on the cover that four or five year period i think was probably the best group of madden games because you had the franchise mode and you had the you know you could build your own stadiums and design the stadiums, however you wanted to look. They don't really let you do that so much anymore on the latest games, but yeah, man, I mean, it, it, it got me into the sport. It made me fall in love with the sport and Madden made me fall in love with the sport. And, um, you know, I think what gets forgotten about him too, is the run he had as a head coach of the Raiders I mean the guy won 103 games in 10 years the highest winning percentage in in the history of the NFL for a coach and then you think about all the great moments he was a part of as a broadcaster and then you're reminded

of all of the great moments he was a part of as a head coach of the Raiders, too. I mean, you're talking about, you know, Vikings fans don't like to talk about this, but Super Bowl XI, Willie Brown with the pick six and the image of him running towards the camera in slow motion. John Madden was there. The Immaculate Reception. John Madden was there. The Sea of Hands play for the Raiders. John Madden was there. The Holy Roller play. John Madden was there. The sea of hands play for the Raiders. John Madden was there. The holy roller play. John Madden was there. All of these iconic moments in the NFL in the 1970s,

he was there. He was there for almost all of it. And then you add in all of the special moments he was a part of as a broadcaster too. When's when you think football, man, he's, he's one of the, if he's not the first name that comes up in your mind, he's one of the top three or four for sure. And I love the fact that the Raiders teams that had the personality of John Madden, I mean, they were just, they were known for just being like this hardcore group that was, you know, violent and had this incredible offensive line, of course, under John Madden. And that was at the center of their success on the video game. There's some really interesting stories there about Madden and one of my favorites.

And there's a 30 for 30 audio version on this podcast version on the creator of Madden. And, uh, the one, one of the stories is when Madden was approached about doing the game that he said, okay, why don't you come on to the creator? Why don't you come on this couple of day train ride with me? And I'm going to explain football to you because I, I will not put my name on something that is not accurate. That doesn't have like X's and O's that does not have 11 players on 11 players. We're not going to make, they initially wanted to make it seven on seven, not going to have that. It's got to have the offensive line and it's got to have the schemes. It's got to have the plays. It's got to have them drawn up.

And that was very cool because that's how they came off. I mean, if you're really old, you remember the windows, the passing windows that were just really tough to throw the ball in the early games. But that was sort of the answer to not being able to fit all the players on the screen at first because Madden demanded that. But then the cool thing that I didn't know was that every year as a broadcaster, Madden would take notes throughout the entire season. And then at the end of the year,

he would go in and have a big meeting with EA and he would explain all the things that he wanted in the game that he had seen over the year. So things in different playbooks, like, okay, well, you know, this team is using this formation. So I want to make sure a good example would be like the wildcat where the next year after the wildcat starts being used, then the wildcat starts showing up in the Madden game because he had observed that, okay, teams are using this wildcat thing. doing all these other things that he was doing is still like wanted to have the game be educational and a tool for people to understand how football works. And if you play the game now, uh, it's almost a little much because you're like, okay, I have to actually go through reads on progressions at this point. You have to read a defense, Right. I have to read two high single high pressures, hot blitzes, hot routes. So someone say, uh, and it could be a little like, all right, this isn't exactly plug and

play anymore. And I think that part of the fading of the game was probably him getting older and having less control over what was going on or on or less attention to detail on it. But what a cool story of he could have slapped his name on it and it would have sold, but it probably would have fizzled out. And instead, he kept pushing the envelope with them to the point that you mentioned. The Madden 04 is one of the peak video games in the history of all video games. Not only is Michaelael vick unstoppable

but you could do the training camp to elevate your own players you had all those mini camp drills and everything else the franchise mode the draft if i'm not mistaken at that time you could connect the ncaa games draft to the nfl's draft so you could bring your players over like it had all these things and i don't know why they've faded and disappeared with all these other things because it's hard to keep up on the video games but i just thought like of all the stories about madden that showed how much he cared about everything he did that was that was one of the coolest and for me that the madden 04 is right around about when i'm graduating high school and i cannot even begin to explain how much that game got played. Madden 05, I'm in college the first year.

I mean, it's just like playing that game until the CD doesn't work anymore and things like that. Also, you think about what was really cool, and I think that this shapes our mentality. Like now, as we evaluate teams and coaches, is you would have a salary cap too. So you would have trades with draft capital too. Eventually that came into it. So you were trading draft picks and salary cap management and all those sorts of things that I think we all with this job are playing Madden with the Vikings all the time, right? Like, like, would we,

would we even have the same mentality for team building and everything else if we hadn't played this game? Because you know as well as I do, the game was fun, but the offseason was what you were working for, so you could do all the trades and fix your team for the next year. I used to love picking the Vikings and going into franchise mode back when they were still playing in the Metrodome. And I would love to set up enough money to build a new stadium. And, you know, that 0-4, 0-5, 0-6, 0-7 Madden, those games, you could go all out, you know,

as far as, you know, designing your own stadium. You could decide if you want a roof or not. You could decide how many decks you wanted. Just the whole design of how the field was going to look. You could really go all in i don't know why they they went away from that um in in recent years but yeah it was it was so authentic and to your point that was madden that was john madden having his fingerprints all over it just saying like look this is going to be if you're going to make a football simulation

video game it's got to be as close to the real thing as as humanly possible like you're not gonna make this a farce and make you know make my name be a joke you know so um yeah it was it was so much fun man and and i would go into gosh, gosh, I'd play 10, 11 years of franchise mode, you know, when I would play those games. And there was a lot of nights where I'd be up until 2 or 3 in the morning playing that game, man. It was unbelievable. Folks, it's that time again where you're doing your online shopping for the holidays. And look, if you want free shipping, I can help you out with that. For all of your Minnesota sports-inspired goods, use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER when you go to SOTASTICK.COM. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com.

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And you can get that shipping free by using the code purple insider. Okay. perfect for gifts and you can get that shipping free by using the code purple insider okay so we will miss john madden so so greatly and i mean i we already do i mean he's been retired as a broadcaster from 2009 and on but somebody who shaped an entire generation of people who watch football and people who play video games and understand football. I mean, when you think about it, his life in football encapsulates every generation. So if you are 21 years old, listening to the show, you've played Madden. If you are 35 years old, you grew up listening to Madden. And if you are 60 years old, you were up watching him coach the Oakland Raiders. And I mean, how many people can you say that about? It's, it's really incredible. So what I want to do is I do want to get a couple of quick takes from you, but I want you to do at least one take about Vikings and Packers in John

Madden's voice. Okay. So I'm going to set it up. Okay. Like I'm Pat Summerall and you be john madden okay all right so welcome to lambo here a big matchup tonight between the minnesota vikings and the green bay packers with playoffs on the line john well you know pat the vikings coming in at seven and eight and they're coming off a really difficult difficult loss at home to the rams and you know i talked to mike zimmer earlier today and you know he said we have got to get back to viking football and playing what we do best doing what we do best on the football field And that's with running the football and playing sound defense. That's going to be the key.

You know, Pat, when you have weather conditions like this at Lambeau Field, and you know, Lambeau Field is just such a great place to play. And Aaron Rodgers and the Packers are on fire. They're playing their best football of the year. If you're the Vikings, you've got to control the clock. You've got to keep Aaron Rodgers off the field. And defensive the vikings are going to have to have a big night well john it's a very cold night here at lambeau it's supposed to be two under and aaron rogers has been dealing with an injured toe but he's been playing at an mvp level john he's as good as he's ever been.

Well, you know, Pat, Aaron Rodgers has been great. You know, he's no Brett Favre. I'll tell you that. He's no Brett Favre, but he's playing at a great level. Aaron Rodgers is just terrific. And, you know, you get into Lambeau Field and you get this crowd behind you and you're playing in these weather conditions. You know, I think that, you know, Aaron Rodgers is going to be able to play through that injury and he should do pretty well here tonight.

But I think that this game is really important to the Packers because they're trying to stay in that number one spot in the NFC and have home field advantage. And Pat, you and I both know when it's cold in December and January in Lambeau Field, boy, boy i tell you the packers are really tough to be oh man that's great uh i was gonna say that madden might say something like uh i mean you know pat they say you know this this little piggy went to the market well you know aaron aaron's gonna have you know his pinky are going to go all the way to the MVP.

So before we wrap up, that is right there. You did a beautiful John Madden. I appreciate that. Just how do you think this thing's going to play out, Manny? I feel like the consensus so far among podcast guests here is that it might not be too pretty down in green Bay. And that's going to kind of end things. Uh, are you, uh, with the crowd on this opinion? Yeah, I just have a hard time believing that this is going to go well for the Vikings on Sunday night. I mean, it's going to be really, really cold. It's going to be on the road. The Packers have a lot to play for. I mean, it's going to be really, really cold. It's going to be on the road. The Packers have a lot to play for. I mean, they want that number one seed and have that

extra week to not have to play. And that, you know, that's an extra week that Aaron Rodgers doesn't have to wear on that, on that, on that pinky toe, you know? So, you know, obviously the Vikings still have a chance to make the playoffs. It's a very, very small chance. And also too, I mean, listen, because it's a Sunday night game, depending on what happens in the earlier games this weekend, it might be a situation where, depending on what the Eagles do, depending on what the Saints do, we might be pretty sure that this team's not going to make the playoffs

by the time Sunday night rolls around. And at that point, it's like, you know, if you're, if you're the players, you're going to show up and play, but it's just like, at that point, what are you really going to be playing for outside of pride? You know what I mean? And you've got a coach that's on the hot seat, a lot of, a lot of different things, you know, a lot of speculation on the future of a lot of uh a lot of different things you know a lot of speculation on the future of a lot of

these players too so i have a hard time believing that this is going to go well for them on on sunday you know what i've figured out over the years is that how we lead up to a game and everybody's faces and body language and comments don't always tell us how it's going to go on sunday i mean there were weeks earlier this year where I thought this team is so down after whatever loss they just had that I just can't see them recovering. And then, you know, the Delvin cook stuff comes out with the ex girlfriend and then all this stuff, so many distractions.

And then they pull out a big win in Los Angeles. And I was very wrong about that. I thought, well, this is the game where they sort of keel over and die and they found a way to fight back. And that's, you know, Mike Zimmer is hanging his hat on that. And if we get to a point where they're not fighting back anymore, which we have in previous seasons at the end of the year, then that's the last thing that they're kind of holding onto is if they win the last two and don't make the playoffs, they could say, well, look, I mean, we had an above 500 record that now teams can do that right with nine and eight. And we fought to the very end. And if I could still get my team to fight to the very end after all this, then I should still be the coach. Like you've got a case. If you lose by three

touchdowns in green Bay, and it seems like you just want to go home, which has been the feeling around the team. Uh, then, you know, there's really no reason to carry on with, with any of this, or at least I think in the, in the Wilf's minds, and I'm only just trying to put myself in their position. I, it would be very difficult to make a case to them. Hey, I deserve to continue as the coach of this team if you can't show up for sunday night football against the green bay packers who are your biggest rival this feels like a game too that we're gonna know pretty early on how it's gonna go if the packers jump out 14 nothing this baby's over it's a wrap you know what i mean and And we've seen this team fall behind before and get off to bad starts before or finish the games poorly before Detroit and sort of recover

and keep games close. But this is just, I think, with the way the Packers are playing right now, I mean, Green Bay is just rolling right now. And, you know, with so much uncertainty with the Vikings and where they're at and the future of everybody, if the Packers jump up early, I think it's going to end up being a bloodbath. Now, if the Vikings get off to a good start, then it could be interesting. But I just think those first couple of drives by Aaron Rodgers and that Packers offense, I think are really going to be the key it's really going to decide how things go you know what mike zimmer gave us a window into in the

after the pittsburgh game was he said that he believed here we go again and usually they never admit to that but there has been a here we go again about this team when things aren't going well especially on the offensive side and we saw that against the rams of oh here we go again about this team when things aren't going well, especially on the offensive side. And we saw that against the Rams of, oh, here we go again, Aaron Donald, it's just doing really well against us. And we'll, you know, kind of, what are we going to do? And then they, you know, aren't able to kind of get over that hump and score when they're in the red zone score, when they're given extra opportunities that that that's where that feeling has seeped in. And sometimes it's the players. Sometimes it's the coach. Sometimes it's, you know, a different guy every week, or sometimes it's the guy everybody thinks it is with the football in his hands. And

what it adds up to at the end though, is the same sort of thing as it's added up to year after year. And if that's the case against green Bay, uh, I don't think though, that we're finding out new things about this team. I think we're only finding out, all right, this is it last shot and your last chance to prove that there's something different here. And if there is, then we carry on. And if there's not, then I think we're having discussions about whether it's, uh, you know, you can convince Byron left, which that he wants to coach here instead of Jacksonville. So, um, do you got it? Do you got a guy, Manny? I haven't asked you this and I'm sorry if you're not prepared for this question, cause we could do hot routes, coach search

edition at some point left, which left, which for me, if he doesn't go to Jacksonville would be, uh, my pick lots of NFL experience handpicked by Bruce Arians to coach Tom Brady, um, younger guy, offensive mentality relates to the younger players, I think probably better than a Mike Zimmer. So I think he checks off a lot of boxes for me. Do you have someone that's kind of of your interest? Yeah. I mean, I, I like Byron left, which a lot, um, you know, I, you, you know, me, I'm a big fan of Eric B enemy. Um, you know You know, I do think I try not to get too into, you know, is he an offensive guy or defensive guy? I do think an offensive guy in this particular case with this team makes a lot of sense. But it's also for me, it's just like, just get the right guy.

Just get a guy that's going to embrace modern football where we we throw the football more than we run it we don't run it on first down all the time we don't run it on second and nine all the time uh just just somebody that's going to be able to connect with players and and and hire good assistants and have some stability with within you know his assistant coaching stable you know what I mean I mean we've seen you know Mike Zimmer's gone through a lot of a lot of offensive coordinators some have done a nice job and gone on to get head coaching jobs like Pat Schirmer and Kevin Stefanski but you know other guys it you know you look at North Turner you look at John DeFilippo they were kind of forced out the door because they weren't doing exactly what mike zimmer wanted them to do so i think if

you bring in a guy that can bring a little bit more stability you're going to lose coordinators if they do a great job they're going to get opportunities to elevate and everything but just finding some sort of stability in place um i think is going to be a good thing because it's, I think we've just kind of seen, I think we've seen the most that we can, you know, I think we've seen the best that we can see out of Mike Zimmer, you know, that was 2017 and it was a great year, a fun year. And to me, I've, you know, me, I've been saying this for a couple of years, that to me was kind of their best shot. If they were going to win a championship, that group, even with case case, you know, that was their best shot. And, you know, they went into Philadelphia and they laid

an egg and that was, that was kind of it. And they've been kind of trying to climb their way back to that for the last four years. And it just hasn't, they haven't been able to get there. You know, I, I have the feeling when I walked out of the stadium in Philly, I don't think I'm covering another NFC championship game again soon. It just was, I remember Zolgad and I talking about it. Like, I think that that was it. I think that that was their shot. And, you know, then they signed cousins and it's, well, maybe it wasn't, maybe I'm wrong. And it turns out to be that they just couldn't break through. And I think where you walk away from, if they lose this game in Lambeau,

I mean, we're really putting the season in the grave and the numbers say that we should, I mean, they have a 13% chance. It bumped up from 11% with the saints lost the other day. So it's 13% chance. So the numbers say that we should put this season, you know, kind of put a bow on it. Um, but you know, know, I think that when they signed cousins, we all went, okay, well, you know, I mean, this is a Superbowl move and maybe this will take you to the next level. And the fact that it hasn't gotten there you know, what else can you do at this point?

Like what other button is there to push is where you end up, you know, being, and even in 2019, there was the same feeling of like, well, now the defense is going to come apart. And how are you going to get to a different level than where you were at? And I don't see the answer with the same people. So if that, you know, ends up being the case that they lose in Lambeau, then I think you kind of have to start that process of saying, okay, now, now that that's the last straw, that's it. And now we can go forward. And if not, and they make the playoffs, it would be really kind of crazy if they did. And then who knows, you know, there have been coaches before who thought they were going to

get fired and then one in the playoffs. And it just doesn't feel like this team has the guts for it or, or the talent in a lot of different areas. So anyway, well, Manny, so gracious of you to jump on pretty much. I just sent you a text, Manny, we got to talk about Madden. You said, let's go. And so I really, I appreciate that. And I appreciate your perspective and thoughtfulness on, I mean, everything, but you know, especially something like this that we really share our love and appreciation for football from, from that Madden era.

So thanks so much for your time and be well, my friend have a happy new year. Caller always a pleasure to be on with you, man. This is why you and I are such good friends because we have the same appreciation for nineties football and Madden and all of that stuff. So this was, this was great. Thanks for having me on to do it.