Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - A way too early discussion of Vikings-Panthers

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Matthew Coller and Julian Council get together to have a conversation about the Vikings and Panthers. Did they make the right call in drafting Bryce Young? What can the Vikings take away from Carolina's path to the No. 1 pick? Should the Vikings be concerned about that game on the schedule or is it a gimme? Plus a hilarious Minnesota connection to the all-time Panthers passing list Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider is presented by Oakley. Express yourself. Build a look that's made for you. When you wear Oakley, there really is more than meets the eye. Try it for yourself. Oakley is not only the best looking, but the best quality. So head on over to oakley.com for more information today. Hello and welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. I'm your host, Matthew Collard here. Joining me on the show, returning Julian Council, Locked On Panthers. And Julian, we've been going through a bunch of different reporters, a bunch of different cities of teams that the Vikings will play.

And I guess we'll call it the way, way too early preview. But I'd love to do a little check-in, find out what's going on in different cities. And it seems there in Carolina, you may have had a few things to talk about this offseason, eh? A few news bits out here this past offseason. There's a new head coach here in town. There's a new quarterback, and that quarterback, they had to go up to number one in the draft. So, yeah, a couple things have happened here in Carolina

during the offseason. It's actually made it pretty eventful. Because I know for me especially, going into the draft, not my favorite time of the year, but when you have the number one pick and there's a debate of who the quarterback that you should take should be, it does then become a little bit more interesting than the typical, oh, well, what are they going to do here at 19 overall? Or, oh, they don't have a pick until the third round. Let's try and make it up and say what North Dakota State linebacker they should take instead I feel seen a little bit with that um

that's been a hard drafts for really the entire time I've covered the Vikings there hasn't been too many times where they've even cracked the top 15 and then when they did last year they traded out of it all the way down to number 32 and this year the Vikings didn't have a second round pick so a little less eventful for us but for your podcast download numbers I'm sure that this whole thing was gold but let let us let us begin there let us begin with Bryce Young because so I uh this is you know how we all get things massively right and massively wrong in the draft and old takes exposed as a Twitter account just for such things. But one thing that I can sort of put a feather in my cap about Julian is that I never believed anybody else was going to be number one other than Bryce Young. I thought

from the time that he went into his senior or whatever season it was last season in college, he was going to be the number one guy that nothing knocked him off that pedestal. And then he was at the end of the day. My question for you is, was that the right decision with three dudes who went in the top five that all would have a similarly strong case to have gone number one? I do think it was the right decision. Frank Wright, the Panthers head coach, did say the night that they drafted Bryce Young that if you watch the tape he was the best player and anyone who's watched college football the last two seasons collectively the best quarterback in college football the last two seasons has been Bryce Young he's been outstanding on an Alabama team that honestly last fall aside from

Jameer Gibbs and Cameron Latu they didn't have a ton of talent like they had to start a guy who transferred in from Vanderbilt at tackle that is a problem y'all like I get it Alabama five star after five star but the reason they were able to win as many games they won last year was because Bryce Young in the way that he was able to elevate the talent around him so for me it was very clear that Bryce Young was the best quarterback. Now there was, of course, the concerns about size, because he's an anomaly. You've never seen a guy at 5'10", and let's be honest, 190, 195 playing weight, go number one overall, and have a long-term career in the NFL.

There's been guys like Russell Wilson, who kind of the same height, just a little bit taller at 5'11", weighed in at 204. That's the same weight that Bryce Young weighed in at the combine, but that's not his playing weight. That is at least Russell's playing weight, and he can add some more weight. And they do believe that Bryce Young can add some more to his frame over the course of the years, but still, no one like Bryce Young has ever come to the NFL and had success. He hasn't had injuries. Back in college, only one time he hurt himself where he fell wrong in his shoulder, missed the game, then came back and lit up Tennessee.

So I felt like it was the right decision because clearly he's the best quarterback coming out of college football. And, you know, C.J. Stroud, fantastic player. Just a lot of questions about him throughout his career. He waited until his final game of his career against Georgia on that New Year's Eve where he was amazing to finally show us what he can be. But the problem is the sample size shows you that's not really who he's been.

And I don't know if that's just the light bulb finally coming off and that's who's going to be moving forward. But he was a fantastic player. Just I didn't think he was better than Bryce Young. And then Anthony Richardson, it came down to the end where I looked at the coaching staff here and his physical tools and thought that, man, if this coaching staff is built

to really help a young quarterback, why not take a chance on that guy? But I also understand why they wouldn't want to take a chance to rather go with the guy who's been the best player on the best team since he was in high school. And that player is Bryce Young. And that's what made, I mean, this debate leading into the draft pretty entertaining was that each one of them, there is an argument for like the flaws that they have but also the high end that they have you mentioned it cj stroud in that game against georgia i mean showed everything that he could be it was almost like he knew he's getting drafted and like i'm just gonna leave it all out here and they very reasonably could

have won that game and then georgia goes and plays TCU and wins 62 to seven or whatever. Like that shows you how strong that Georgia team was that he was performing against. How can you not be impressed? And then with Anthony Richardson, maybe the best athlete to ever come out in the NFL draft, Dante Culpepper might also make a case for that. Cam Newton might also make a case for that. And I never really bought that the guy can't pass.

I think he can, but I think that there's got to be a development there with Anthony Richardson that might take a while, might take three years before it really all kind of comes together. Or maybe he can't pass. There's way more red flags in his throwing than someone like Bryce Young, who is incredibly accurate, is a playmaker. And also my understanding of Bryce Young is that his intelligence is through the roof. And I feel like he's shown that when you listen to him talk, you really go, OK, wow. I mean, I think this guy really gets it. He processes well.

He plays in an offense that asks a lot of the quarterback. Like, I just feel like Bryce Young despite his size is a safer pick than Richardson even though I think Richardson could become the best quarterback from that draft yeah and that's kind of why at the end I was saying that Richardson should be the guy just because of all the physical talent and that I don't know how good Bryce Young is going to become I know how good I think he is right now and you wonder is it kind of one of those things where he has a high floor low ceiling which of course not what the Carolina Panthers are hoping to have but in the number one pick and the guy that they gave up DJ Moore and all those picks for I do think Bryce Young can have success in

the league I do think the Panthers have the right coaching staff and you know the talent so far around him is it's okay it needs to be improved upon certainly in the years to come especially at wide receiver but I do look at it where like yes he can come in the s2 cognition test that's something that was really brought up during his draft cycle and he just passed out with flying colors really scored like the highest level you can and that certainly helps his maturity having already been at alabama the expectations aren't going to be something that he can't handle richardson a lot of those film nerds here on twitter i mean nate tice i think does a great job with the athletic he really broke it down i was listening about monty jones's podcast and i saw some other people out there as well who really just broke down the

film is like hey like this guy's not like looking to run like this guy's sitting there he's processing he has a good arm yeah the accuracy might not be great but look at the town around him it's like okay we'll look at the town around bryce young yes there were there was another first round pick there and jameer gives but it's not like his wide receiver is all that great and Bryce Young wasn't having the same issue so yeah I do think Anthony Richardson has a little bit of ways to go as far as you know working on his footwork and just being a quarterback but I think Bryce Young right now can come in and play the position better than any of the other guys he knows how to play the position I still think you probably have to teach Anthony Richardson a little

bit more about how to play the position although man still think you probably have to teach Anthony Richardson a little bit more about how to play the position. Although, man, if you unlock everything that guy has, he could have ruled the world. That's just how good I think he can be. I know. And throughout the whole process, there were some mock drafts that had the Vikings taking Anthony Richardson. So at least we got to have that discussion for like a day and a half. And of course, that disappeared immediately when it got to the draft. And then we got to have that discussion for like a day and a half. And of course that disappeared immediately when it got to the draft. And then we had to debate Will Levis, who I never really bought the entire time. He was the guy that there's always one that the draft world hypes up and it

just does not end up coming to fruition. Last year's draft, there were like four that that happened with, with Desmond Ritter and Sam Howell and all that. Malik Willis is already out of a job. Isn't that crazy? Isn't that crazy? You're talking about a guy going in the top 10 and he's already at a,

like I talked a lot about that draft class, mainly saying that none of these dudes are worth the number six overall pick in Carolina. And I, we spent time with about Malik Willis and damn the Titans didn't even take a year to replace him with somebody. And I don't even think we'll love this is all that good good anyways but if you trade up the number to the second round it feels like levis and i guess tan hill still there i don't know how it's going to work out down there but

it looks like malik willis has fallen down to like third on the depth chart already yeah isn't that amazing i mean because there were a lot of people making that argument. And it just, I think, shows you sort of the errors of trying to watch film from the outside. And I know this is a huge industry and you're never going to, I can't tell people not to do it because a lot of people's jobs is analyzing the draft and everything else. But when you have people looking at the film and thinking someone should be taken number two overall

and they're a third round pick at the quarterback position where there's all the film available and all the data and everything else. It's like, well, this just tells us how much we don't know because the NFL is usually outside of a few outliers, not missing on where the prospects should be. Sometimes they go bust, but usually they get the order pretty correct. And I just wonder, and I just wonder and I just wonder do people watch college football do you like do they watch these games because let's just look at like just two examples because we brought up both these guys right now Malik Willis started off his career at Auburn couldn't beat out Bo Nix now Bo Nix had a good year last year at Oregon finally had a good offensive line that helps and he's in a good offensive system. But he's also a fourth-year player.

Early on in his career, a guy who's a five-star, first five-star that they've had at Auburn since Jason Campbell, who went on to have an NFL career, had a great college career. But you didn't beat up Bo Nix. Bo Nix is still in college for a fifth season. Probably because he knows he was not going to be anything higher than maybe like a fifth-round pick. Let me go back to college and get that NIL money.

So why would you then hype up a guy in the top 10 who can't even be the guy who would go in the fifth round go to will levis he's at penn state sean clifford solid college player not outstanding i was in a way surprised he was a draft pick i think he went in the fourth fifth round will levis couldn't beat him but he's supposed to go in the top 10 and it's the wild to me that Levis even went ahead of Clifford because he's not even a better player than Sean Clifford but hey I guess we don't watch college football we got a lot of guys who are just I don't know I don't they just swoop in decide hey that guy looks the part so clearly he must be it and we've seen that at least in Malik Willis's case so far he ain't it but we could have known that if you watched three years ago him have to transfer from Auburn against a guy who is probably going to get

drafted like the fifth or sixth round next year I mean this also applies to Anthony Richardson because if you watched the games that Anthony Richardson played in now some of them were pretty bad performances but he had yeah right it was a roller coaster he also had no experience starting before and if you go back and look at like Lamar Jackson's first year Jalen Hurts first year he had, yeah, right. It was a roller coaster. He also had no experience starting before. And if you go back and look at like Lamar Jackson's first year, Jalen Hurts first year starting, they're completing like 50% of passes and then they're growing from there. And what you also saw is that team was horrific. They were not just bad. Florida was horrific. They could not catch the ball. They had one good offensive lineman. They didn't have a

very good system. And Anthony Richardson would always impress me about him. And I know that we're talking about this since your team didn't even draft him. So we'll get back to Bryce Young. But what was amazing to me is that Anthony Richardson, and this I think was a big part of all three of these guys, never was like calling out anybody. He was never getting in people's faces, showing frustration. He just kept grinding. And there would be like four drop passes in a row. And the dude would just run for a first down. And he won games and played competitively on a team that we think of Florida

as being good. They were not good. But anyway, let's circle back because those are rants from six weeks ago. Let's circle back to Bryce Young though. What is a reasonable expectation for Bryce Young? Because I think if you're the Vikings, you're looking at that game, it is on the road, but you're saying rookie quarterback, not a great real offensive team. Adam Thielen has to be a top target there. That's not a team that you're necessarily terrified of going to play, but also we don't really know what Bryce Young is going to be right

away. Yeah, reasonable expectations. That's pretty hard to do right now, Matthew, considering that they gave up DJ Moore, their top wide receiver, first round pick next year second round pick this past year and a second round pick in 25 and the team hasn't been to the playoffs in five seasons so a lot of people are desperate for a savior and they've talked themselves into a lot of guys as false idols to be their saviors they did a year ago matt corral who's probably never going to play meaningful snap here in carolina they did with baker mayfield they did with Baker Mayfield they did with Sam Darnold they did with Kyle Allen they've done it with Will Greer they've done with Teddy Bridgewater they've even done it briefly with PJ Walker like you understand what I'm saying and when Cam Newton came back that second time around I'm back yes but no they did it with Cam then so Panther fans

are desperate for a quarterback who can stabilize the position and be the long-term answer here in carolina i think bryce young this year can be good enough to get them in position to be in the playoffs because if you look at everything that went wrong last year the fact that the guy that was coaching the team matt rule really was in over his head at this level in that the wide receiver core outside of DJ Moore wasn't great Robbie Anderson now known as chosen Anderson when he was here the last year plus wasn't good at all was a net negative Christian McCaffrey I did think was really good in Carolina last season before he shipped off to San Francisco and we saw that oh man this guy can still play he just was injured for two years. Maybe people should have been crying about, oh, let's trade him. He's not reliable.

I mean, it happens. It's football. So when you look at the fact that you get rid of your best offensive playmaker, you only have one other guy who you can rely on on the outside. And they're a one-dimensional offense that really ran the football well in the second half of the season. And defensively, they were good. They were right there in position week 17 on the road against Tampa before Mike Evans and Tom Brady went off because their top two corners Dante Jackson and JC Horn especially were out that game like they were a JC Horn injury away potentially from winning the NFC South so when you take that into account after everything that went wrong it's hard for people not to talk themselves into, okay, you've got to vastly improve offensive line,

that they're all back this year. Even though one of them, Austin Corbett, is out for a little bit, but you've got a guy that you drafted in Cade Mays that you feel good about who's coming into his second year. You bring in a Jero Avero to run the defense, and he was somebody that was a candidate up there in Minnesota, and he's someone who was outstanding last year in Denver, so you already have him. You've got Brian Burns back.

JC Horn's coming back. You've got um Jeremy Chin you have a really talented defense that now should be in a scheme that should be able to utilize and really maximize their talents and then you bring in some veterans like Von Bell got Hayden Hurst can fill in that tight end position got Miles Sanders coming off the outstanding season all that seems to be missing is just solid quarterback play which they have not gotten the last couple seasons so if he provides that in this division they can be a playoff team so reasonable expectations is to is for Bryce Young to yes have his rookie up and down but really you should have him in position to win the division or be in the wild card not saying that to win it and to be in the wild card but to be in position to do that so i do think

that's reasonable based off of what everything is around him and the coaching staff that they place around bryce jung heading into this season folks i know you have heard me talk a ton about my oakley sunglasses this summer but the more i wear them the more i like them i went on a little summer vacation and spent a ton of time outside in the sun. And let me tell you, before these, I had to squint even when I had sunglasses on. But these matte black prism sapphire polar sunglasses protected my eyes, and I think I looked pretty great as well. I was able to stay outside for hours rather than getting beaten down by the sun like I have in the past. And now I am confident that when training camp comes around, I will be able to keep both eyes on all the positional battles. Oakley is changing the game,

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And if you want to know more, you can do your own research at Oakley.com. When you wear Oakley, there is more than meets the your own research at oakley.com when you wear oakley there is more than meets the eye try it for yourself i've worn a lot of sunglasses and i can assure you that oakley is not only the best looking but the best quality as well head on over to oakley.com for more information today oakley express your style and build a look that's made for you. I can't tell you how different the perception everywhere else of the Carolina Panthers is going to be from what you just said. So like, I mean, I imagine that's the case, right? Like they should be a playoff team. And if Bryce Young is even halfway decent in his first year, they've got all these other pieces and here everybody who

filled in the little w's and l's as soon as the schedule came out put a big old w next carolina like if you're sure of any game it's probably tampa bay and then carolina would be the ones you put in w's although you know tampa bay is week one and sometimes weird things happen in week one so if you took like a confidence meter of all Vikings fans, what game would you be doing? What's the, what's the fantasy style game where you pay the survivor pool? If you were doing this survivor pool, who are you picking? 90% of fans might pick Carolina, but I, I guess I would say that when you look at what the defense has, it has a lot of talent. So I don't want to stray too far away from the Bryce Young expectation conversation, but I think that there are parts

of this roster that could make them a competitive team in a division that is pretty unimpressive still, even with Derek Carr there. But with Bryce Young, I think for me, again, this might be very different from what the expectations are there. For me, it would be, remember how Joe Burrow, the Bengals were pretty bad. They didn't have a lot to work with. And in that first year, he had some games where he were like, okay, I see it. They would lose, but he'd be balling. He'd be fighting. He'd be putting up some big plays.

And then there'd be some mistakes mixed in or whatever. But you would say say I see it I think that that would be a reasonable expectation to go through this season and even if you're seven and ten if you're eight and nine and I know again your fan base there is going to be like what but yeah if they were and he showed that there's something there for the future because I think you see the flashes right away with quarterbacks whether they make that into their ceiling or not who knows but that's what I would be looking for can he lead a team can he make plays can he stay healthy can can he show you there's something there and then by next year if if he does then Carolina is is for serious a team to be watching for yeah and I agree with you there. I've told people on my show,

the only thing that really matters this season is that we see it from Bryce Young, that we see, okay, he can be the guy. That's what really matters this season is his development. Now, the overall team goals to be a playoff team, you want that to happen. Defensively, I do think they're going to be excellent. I do think the offensive line is good. I do think the offensive line is good I do think the receiver core is bad

and folks don't like to hear it it's like y'all Adam Thielen age 33 I'm and I'm 30 and I feel I feel scummy even saying to age 33 the man's old but in the game of football he's old I'm sure he can provide some good stuff for the Panthers this year, but what is he going to provide next season, in the year after that at age 34 and 35? This is probably the last decent to good year you're ever going to get out of Adam Thielen. And there's a reason why the Vikings, his hometown team, moved off of him after this past season

where they were a really good football team. So, hey, we'll see how it works out here in Carolina. DJ Chark, they're expecting him to maybe be their big play guy. I mean, he's been a pro bowler before, but he hasn't really been healthy. He's still not healthy right now. And they're talking about how they want to improve on his route tree. It's like he kind of is what he is at this point in time. So, sure.

I mean, Terrace Marshall, he showed some flashes last season late in the year, but still not enough to really feel that confident about. I just look at the fact you have Hayden Hurst, so that does help you in the year but still not enough to like really feel that confident about i just look at the fact you have hayden her so that that does help you in the passing game and miles sanders he can be a part of it even though he hasn't really been so the last couple seasons in philadelphia like they have more options than they had last year because the only option really was dj more so i'll say okay there's more options but are you really expecting these guys week in and week out to make enough plays down the field that can really help Bryce Young.

What's going to help Bryce Young is having a good offensive line and having a strong running game, which is what they had last year, a good offensive line and a strong running game. Just can they find more balance? And if they can find more balance with that defense, they have a chance in this division. Now, if they were in the NFC East, no, there's no way they're going to be a playoff team. But because they're in the NFC East no there's no way they're gonna be a playoff team but because they're in NFC South you can't rule it out it might be nine and eight or eight and nine but I mean they're not gonna win 11 games like I don't see that happening I don't even see them winning

10 like if they have a good if they win a division to have a good season like it's gonna be nine and eight to me you have to make the playoffs as a wild card it's gonna be eight nine like that's that's what I would see I see like right there So we won't do 500 anymore, but right around that 8-9, 9-8, like, threshold. Like, that's something I think Panther fans should be happy about. But they should also understand that this is still a roster that needs to be built. Like, defensively, I feel like they're pretty set. But on the offensive side, you're set on offensive line. But as far as receivers go, like, you got a top tier guy next year and whether that's like

making a trade for a guy like who t like t higgins who i feel like could be on the outs in cincinnati because hey you got a page of marches you can't let that guy go and t higgins really good player i just don't know if they can afford to do that you know the bingos have always been known as being cheap so we'll see how that works out where you gotta go draft somebody so they they're gonna need at least like two new receivers next year here in carolina because you're losing guy like chanel's probably not gonna be here next year which okay whatever shark probably not gonna be here next year okay whatever i mean theon will be back just because the contract and then marshall will be in his life like you're gonna bring in at least two new guys because they're gonna have to help price but if we if we see enough this year

from bryce young that makes you believe that okay he can be the future that's all that really matters for the carolina panthers even though the fan base would certainly be disappointed to not go to the playoffs yet again in a division that is not good. Right. All of a sudden you become the team that the angry wide receiver with his team wants to go play for when you get the baller quarterback and then you have the cap space to pay said receiver and we just go round and round and round carolina though is and we if we just look at from a broad perspective and then i want to talk about the defense how they match up against the vikings because they have sure one player who i could see destroying that but uh that's a radio tease for

10 minutes from now but i i i want to talk about the timeline of just this team in general, because you go back to kind of the end of the cam era and the second half of the cam era post 2015 sort of reminds me of where the Vikings were, where the team just wasn't quite good enough. You could still be competitive, but not really a super bowl contender and your quarterback at one time, he's an MVP. And then that's not with the Vikings, but you know, cam not MVP is just kind of good, but not unbelievable.

And he's going to get you to at least 500, but probably not all the way unless he has an incredible team. So you kind of just did this thing where like North Turner showing up and then he's going through the injuries and then it's supposed to be Matt Rule and oh our offensive system's so good anybody can be dropped into here and uh you know all that all that whole sort of thing and now you're here in a position to actually be a team that builds for a Super Bowl and I guess one of the things I think about with the Vikings is how there's a lot of fear of this sort of path of, of going a similar direction of like, if you move on from cousins,

then who's the next quarterback and everything else. And I just being a middling team is just so hard to do for the fans because you, you can't set your expectation at super bowl, but you also can't draft the top quarterback and everything else. And I, I just feel like, like my kingdom to be the Panthers like next year for the Vikings to be the Panthers next year. But I don't know if that can happen with Kirk Cousins.

So I wonder if you think of like the path from cam to here, how miserable it was, but also seems like it could be worth it in the long run. Yeah. It's tough. Cause I mean, as good as I think Kirk Cousins has always been a good quarterback. Like, is he great? No, but he was good in Washington. He's been good in Minnesota. Now they brought him into Minnesota after they had the Minneapolis miracle and got to the NFC title game to get them over the top and get to go win a Super Bowl. And aside from that game

in New Orleans a couple years ago, we really haven't seen it from Kirk when it really mattered most. But I do think he's a good enough player to win with. And obviously we've seen the Vikings have won plenty of games with Kirk Cousins. They just haven't won the games that they wanted to win and won enough to appease the fan base and to be able to calm the tide of, oh, hey, let's bring in somebody else, where that's where you're taking a risk. And my understanding of the Vikings' history, they've really never had a franchise quarterback

who they can point to. Like the Panthers have been fortunate where they had a guy in Cam Newton who was the MVP of the league. And when he was at his best, I mean, there weren't too many guys in the league better than him or right up there at his level. So it's been difficult because really physically he just broke down in front of you because you look at 2016 season like yeah the Panthers just coming out the Super Bowl the hangover of all that getting rid of Josh Norman who was more of a system fit than really like a really outstanding player and you're out there starting a bunch of young guys like a James Bradbury who's turned out to be a really good player you saw last year in Philadelphia what

he did what he did previously to that when he was up in New York reuniting with Dave Gettleman the GM who drafted him here in Carolina he decided defense I was young really couldn't stop to stop anybody he saw Keekly and all that but just they weren't good that year you come back the next season and okay they bounce back look good they're six and two and then just Cam's body just over that 17 they go to the playoffs so Cam's good that year and that's when you talk about like what was cam post mbp like well 17 he's a really good player and even in 18 he was a good player for the first eight weeks when they're six and two and then the shoulder that injury that cut up to him he just couldn't throw the football anymore he had an

aging defense a coach and ron rivera whose message probably was wearing on the guys they just weren't really listening all that much anymore. And that's what happens typically when you kind of get later on in your tenure, around year seven, year eight. Like, does it really work anymore for the team and the whole messaging? So, like, that season wasn't great for them at the end of it. After it looked promising, people thought that they were a playoff team and then maybe a Super Bowl contender, which I didn't really bought into that happening.

But I thought they certainly would have been a playoff team. You come back at 19, okay, Cam's going to be healthy again. You got Gerald McCoy. You still got a team that you got Keekly. You feel good about them potentially being a playoff team. Then, you know, he hurts his foot. Week three of the preseason against New England looks bad. Week one against the Rams

looks bad. Week two against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and you lose that game, and you're on a short yardage, and Cam Newton's the best short yardage threat in the NFL, and you're handing the ball off to Christian McCaffrey. It didn't work, and that's how the game ends. And you don't see him ever again in a Panthers uniform. And the people who cling to Kyle Allen those four weeks

when it was McCaffrey doing everything and the defense was great, and then once Kyle Allen's turned the football over and the defense is no longer playing well, then it's just like, okay, what do you have here you bring in Matt Rule I understood why they would bring in Teddy Bridgewater I mean he was good the year prior in New Orleans but it was kind of the same thing yes they were winning games but because they have Alvin Kamara and they had a really good defense not really that Teddy Bridgewater is going out there and doing anything incredible but when you put a good team around Teddy you can win with him which is kind of my message to people coming into Carolina it's like guys this is not a good team around Teddy, you can win with him, which is kind of my message to people coming into Carolina. It's like, guys, this is not a good team. They've gotten rid of a lot of

older players. Like Kikli's retired. No more, no Greg Olson anymore. Like it's going to be tough to really have success. And I thought Teddy was fine, but the problem was, you know, into the game, Teddy Bridgewater is not leading you down the field. And that frustrates people. The owner talks about, Hey, you gotta have a quarterback who can help you in a super bowl if you don't have them you gotta be in constant pursuit of them letting you know that hey teddy bridgewater i don't want you here and i really feel like they did teddy wrong i do feel like the coaching staff really wasn't up to snuff i mean joe brady was everything that people wanted but if you looked at it and actually understood was going down at baton rouge and lsu didn't recruit any of the players didn't coach joe burrow he

coached the wide receivers which hey marshall is pretty Jabari Chase Justin Jefferson I'll give Joe Brady credit there he didn't call the plays so guys never call the plays doesn't coach quarterbacks you're out here acting like he's gonna be your offensive savior it's tough like when you don't have the quarterback you don't have the coaching staff in place it's really difficult it feels like for the Vikings have the coaching staff in place they They have a quarterback who's good enough. But when you go out there and you're doing the quarterback roulette every year and now you're hoping that the guy you drafted who's an anomaly is going to work out for you, it's not the way to live.

But I do feel like with the coaching staff they have in place now, the way that the owners mature, the general manager Scott Bitter, I think he's pretty good. I do think the Panthers are on their way to being a serious NFL team where the last couple years they have been anything but serious and it's it's difficult when you look at just once Cam's body fell apart they really tried to find those short-term fixes that could help them and hope that maybe this guy can be the dude but we knew in New York Sam Darnold wasn't the guy Cleveland there's a reason why they didn't want to pay Baker.

Like, and you thought that that was going to fix things. So it's been difficult, but I'm hoping now with the traditional way of drafting developing, it will get them back to respectability. If you know, they were ever respected at all, I guess. Yeah. So I think that there's, there is a thing for the vikings there of you know with that whole we're going to try to do the bridge water we're going to try to do the sam darnold the baker mayfield that there's always when you draft quarterbacks always chance that he's a horrible bust and then it's talked about forever and it's painful and people here still bring up christian

ponder and you're like guys it was like a decade ago let it go or more it was more than that more than a decade ago and there's still what if we draft the next christian ponder well then it will be miserable and that does happen but it's much worse and this is where you can sort of circumvent some of the mistakes of the panthers you miss on a head coach who has no idea what he's doing, Matt Rule. And that is much worse. So they have a coach. And right off the bat, you're, I think, in a good position having a coach in Kevin O'Connell who knows what he's doing. Also is an NFL guy, not just somebody from college who is guessing, it seemed, and also trying to treat players like they're still in college. I remember Teddy Bridgewater saying that even the practices were not really run like to nfl standard with situation they didn't they didn't

they didn't practice red zone and the panthers that year when teddy was the starting quarterback were 28th in the league in red zone so i just found it hilarious how all the fans were mad every sunday about teddy being teddy when they weren't even working on the red zone which is apparent and people were even saying when he said that on that podcast, like, oh, whatever, Teddy. It's like, y'all look at the stats. Look at the games last year that you were all upset about losing. It's very clear that there's something that they did not work on situationally. Yeah. And not, I mean, not only that, but like Teddy does not ever go out of his way to say anything like that. And so him saying it, you have to take that pretty seriously. And I think that was the moment that you knew it was really over for Matt rule. And

we were just waiting. Like if he, if he doesn't even know how to run an NFL practice, it's probably over with, but the Vikings, I think what they want to do is circumvent those years and not have those miserable years when they do make a transition. And that might not mean drafting number one, because Caleb Williams is not getting traded the same way that Bryce Young was, but drafting a quarterback and then having the pieces, because one thing I think Carolina did very well, and this connects to what I want to talk about with the specific matchup, is they drafted some very good defensive talents. And one of them that stands out to me is Derek Brown. I think the guy's an absolute monster. I think that if we're talking about one scenario where the Vikings do have trouble in Carolina, it's if Derek Brown

eats their lunch completely. And then they also, you know, they've got some guys who can cover it and who can make plays in the secondary that that's the thing that the Vikings should be a little concerned about going there. And I also think that's the thing that could allow the Panthers to next year, maybe not necessarily this year, but next year, take all the bones of these great defensive players, pour some free agency money into it and build a seriously competitive team. But I think if you're the Vikings and we're talking about what, what is this going to look like when they actually play each other? And I'm sure we'll do a podcast again before that happens. But Derek Brown is the guy that I'm circling is like could ruin your day this man yeah and that's the funny thing too about like all the faults of

Matt Rule in that past regime like they knew after 2020 when when Luke Keekly's gone when you got Mario Addison leaving town Bruce Irvin, Gerald McCoy like they had to rebuild that defense that offseason like and they even let james bradbury work so they knew that hey we got to rebuild things here so they went out there they drafted derrick brown immediately in the seventh at seventh overall in that same draft they traded up in the second round to get jeremy chin and those guys immediately became their two cornerstone guys it took brown a little bit of time last year was excellent set the franchise record for most tackles by a defensive tackle in a season.

The Panthers rewarded him by exercising his fifth-year option for 2024. The dude's a stud. And now with new defensive line coach Todd Walsh here in Carolina, the hope is with the new scheme that they can find a way to utilize him more as a pass rusher, which he really wasn't back in college, even though, like, hey, I mean, you're going to maul dudes in the SEC when you're as talented as Derrick Brown is. And you're just not going to be able to do that day in and day out in the NFL early on. And I feel like last year he really did that.

So if you can add that to his arsenal, then, yeah, you're absolutely right that he could make a nightmare for a guard or a center against Minnesota moving forward in that game. And, like, what, is Bradbury still the center there for y'all? So, I mean, for the Vikings, like he's an undersized guy when you think about the center position. So that would be a matchup that Derek Brown and the Panthers, certainly going to want to try and capitalize on. And we got Brian Burns who 12 and a half sacks last year to back-to-back

pro bowler. Dude's probably gonna get a bag here in the next week or so. He's someone that's going to be a concern. Like, I don't know how much they can really add to this defense you got shaq thompson frankie lou had a great year von bell who is a captain in cincinnati probably gonna come in here and be a captain and jc horn can stay healthy i do think that guy is one of the best corners in the league he just hasn't been healthy these first few years like i think he can he can be one of the best corners in the

league if he's healthy so yeah defensively like in that matchup especially with derrick brown like that's where the panthers can win against minnesota this upcoming season like that's where they're going to probably try and win most of the games this year anyways as they try to allow bryce young in this offense to kind of gel and get and click together until maybe the second half of the season you start really seeing those flashes that we're talking about as far as like a reasonable expectation for bryce heading into this season. So yeah, Derek Brown, dude's a stud and you got that one right. It's a sneaky, weird matchup for the Vikings, I think, because some of their weaknesses

are Carolina's strengths. And Brown, I was just pulling it up, 40 pressures last year. So even though he didn't have the sack numbers necessarily, he was causing problems graded well by PFF and pass rush. And there probably is more potential there. Here's what I want to end on Julian. So we're talking about quarterbacks, Carolina Panthers history, and what a history it is at the signal caller position. I want to know from you, can you name the top 10 passers in terms of yardage in Carolina Panthers history. Top 10 terms of yardage.

Okay. Cam Newton. Jake Gallone. Yep. Steve Berline. That's the top three. Kerry Collins. That's the top four.

Now it gets pretty interesting. I would probably have to put Teddy Bridgewater up there. Teddy Bridgewater is sixth. Think about that. I know this was an expansion team, but Teddy Bridgewater is your sixth most prolific passer. And he only played one season. Because the only – the three – I guess the four franchise guys,

because Collins they did draft immediately. And Frank Reich was the guy who first started a game here in Carolina then was replaced by Kerry Collins so like it was Collins, Berline, DeLome and Newton were the really the franchise guys they've only had really one franchise quarterback and that was Cam Newton so those four I said Teddy right um Jimmy Claussen somehow it's a great guess but he's 11th oh okay so not clausen um i guess sam darnold has to be up there sam darnold is seventh again just like mind-blowing that the seventh best passer in terms of yards is sam darnold you are missing a Minnesota connection with number five, the guy ahead of Teddy. Minnesota connection.

Who did I have from Minnesota? Okay, so he didn't play for the Vikings, but he's actually from Minnesota. Is it Matt Moore? Matt Moore is 10th, so that's correct. This guy, one of his two wins ever in his career came against the Vikings. Oh, Chris Wanky. Chris Wanky. Yeah.

2-17 from Minnesota. You know, a real good college player. Because they won week one. Won week one, and they lost the next 15 games that season. And it was, of course, against the Vikings. He threw for 3,800 yards 14 touchdowns 26 picks so I will give you number eight because we talked about him a lot Kyle Allen and then there is one more to go think about think about all-time journeyman like just one of those guys I want to

say Vinny Testaverde it's a great guess and you are in the ballpark is not Vinny Testaverde. It's a great guess. And you are in the ballpark. It is not Vinny Testaverde. He is 15th. You are in the – it is of the same era of a Vinny Testaverde. The guy might have been the same age when he played one season for Carolina. This is a tough one. Who on earth was that? Because I feel like I know all the panthers

quarterbacks but i'm no i don't know i don't know i don't know okay number number nine his wife is more famous than him his wife is more famous than him he's a journeyman he uh detroit Philadelphia Eagle who is this this this goes under like even the most uh journeyman aficionado would have forgot that Rodney Pete was once a Carolina dude how do I forget about that that's right Rodney Pete started the – he started the 03 season, week one, against Jacksonville. I was there with my pops. He then gets benched that halftime in favor of Jake DeLome,

who then comes back, leads the Panthers back in that game, hits Ricky Pohl in the corner of the end zone we were sitting, and then they, of course, cardiac cats. All that happens that year. They go to the Super Bowl, lose in an epic game against new england yes rodney pete how because he started the year prior in 02 the first year john fox and then 03 started off and then of course got benched so damn i can't believe i forgot about rodney pete okay let me tell let me tell you a couple other funny things that i discovered looking this up and uh I won't take that's also very sad dude that that's the list that is that is the list so um Josh McCown has

two yards passing ever for Carolina that's funny to me that he threw six passes remember Tony Pike there was like Tony Pike hype and he threw for 47 yards yes i do because one of my best friends constantly has made tony pike jokes about the carolina panthers for years being like yo we just got to see what tony pike has got to give tony pike a chance why don't we call tony pike and see if he's ready to go this sunday so yeah i actually wanted to say him but i was like tony pike like i think started one game and it went like, yeah, I actually wanted to say him, but I was like, Tony Pike, like, I think started one game, and it went, like, horrifically. And I also wanted to say Brian St. Pierre, who's a stay-at-home dad who got called off, and then he threw, like, 40 times in that game.

I think he tore, like, his, like, tricep because he's, like, he's been on the couch, and they're out here. Hey, man, you want to come out here and play against the Ravens of all teams? He got his ass kicked for 60 minutes. I felt so bad for him. It's one of my favorite things to go down the list and see who threw 20 passes for a team that no one would ever remember. Now, here's an insane connection. Vikings fans would know the name Eric Gulliford, who was a wide receiver that in 1995 apparently threw a 46-yard pass. Eric Gulliford wore the number 84,

which was Randy Moss's number, obviously, but he was this in the nineties. So obviously way before Moss, but he caught a game winning touchdown pass against or whatever it was a huge pass that won a game against the Packers one time. And it was like his one catch of the year. And there was this bizarre controversy that people thought he had snuck off the bench to catch the pass because he was so wide open. And that was like, all he ever did as a Viking. And then he shows up here, Eric Gulliford with a pass as a wide receiver. So anyway, a very, very funny history outside of a couple of franchise quarterbacks and always, always good to get together with you, man, and talk ball locked on Panthers podcast to do a great job.

And one of those of us who escaped sports radio to go on to bigger and better things. So I appreciate you, Julian. And we'll, we'll do this again before Vikings and Panthers for sure. Yes. Look forward to it. And I appreciate you having me on Matthew. Enjoy your summer. I've heard it's beautiful up there in Minneapolis, St. Paul this time of the year. Maybe one day I'll go up there, but probably wouldn't want to be there later on in the year,

but either way enjoyed it. And I'm always happy to talk Panthers and a little bit of Vikings as I do from afar. I have respect for the Vikings. I have a Randy Moss jersey back in my parents' house because I was one of those kids who had a jersey like all these players for no reason. Dude, Kirk Cousins brought this up the other day. They had Jersey Day, so everybody wore their own jerseys. You used to walk around and people just had jerseys on all the time. I don't know when that trend ended. Every music video, people had jerseys on everything i i know that i i had like barry sanders and you know a couple other ones in my closet as a kid i don't know that trend just died out people don't do it anymore but who's the worst player you had a jersey for oh vikings fans are

gonna hate this it was actually herschel walker i like the the worst possible person to have a Jersey for. Yes. When I, when I was a kid, uh, I went to like, my parents would take me for my birthday, like go to the mall and you could pick out a Jersey and Herschel Walker was coming off like this great year late in his career. And I thought it was super cool that he caught passes and returned kicks and everything. So I was like, Oh, I want to get a Herschel Walker. And it was like a cool Jersey. And, uh, yeah, that one, that one didn't age well for a lot of reasons. No, I had a Joey Harrington, Detroit lions Jersey, because I, for whatever reason, me and my best friend became big Oregon ducks fans as kids. And Joey Harrington was that guy. So I don't know. My parents are dumb enough to buy me that uniform. And I'm just like, man, what on earth was I thinking as a kid?

People do not understand the Joey Harrington hype from back in the day. So anyway, well, we'll have to. Oh, actually, I have a Tim Couch, too, that I have kept with me. And the other one is when I was in Buffalo before Minnesota, a fan left me a Kyle Orton jersey at the station as like a goodbye present. So I still have it with me because I thought it was a nice gesture. So yeah, next time we record,

let's put on our funniest jerseys that we have hanging around the house. So anyway, thanks again, man. This was really fun. We'll do it again soon. All right, sounds good.