Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Aaron Nagler of Cheesehead TV says the Packers found their QB in Jordan Love

Episode Date: December 28, 2023

Matthew Coller gets together with Aaron Nagler of Cheesehead TV to discuss the Packers' sudden Love affair with Jordan Love and how that impacts future decisions for the Packers. Plus the terrible Packers defense and why it opens the door for the Vikings to score a lot of points this weekend Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here and joining the show for i don't know second third fourth time from cheesehead tv what do you what do you like do you like packers analyst professional analyzer of the packer football aaron nagler what what do you what do you like to go by for cheesehead tv co-founder is just fine. That covers everything. And drinker of beer. Those two things, you got it covered. Knower of all Green Bay Packer football. I wish. Well, anyway.

Hardly, but yeah. I enjoy following Cheesehead TV and following your work, Aaron, because you give great perspective on what's going on with the Green Bay Packers and what's been really entertaining the Green Bay Packers. And what's been really entertaining for me to watch from afar through social media and your site is the journey of love, we should call it. Because at the beginning of the year, I was chuckling to myself over here in Minnesota and saying, look, look, they don't have an Aaron Rodgers. Look at them.

Look at them react to it. They actually have to follow the ups and downs of a different quarterback. But as of late, save for a game against the Giants, Jordan Love has come along and I'm going to throw a stat at you and I want you to react to it. Jordan Love. This is what really shocked me. And PFF turnover worthy plays is 11th in the least turnover worthy plays, which I did not expect going into this year that he has not turned the ball over and been reckless with the football. So tell me about your journey of love and what you make of the fact that a guy who maybe it looked like he had that tendency has not been a turnover machine. Well, and that's the thing, right? Like, you look at the work earlier in the season, especially that stretch in October where they lost four in a row.

Big part of that was turning the ball over at very inopportune times, deep in your own end. He's really, really cut a lot of that out. There's still a moment or two where he'll put the ball in jeopardy, but more often than not, he's throwing to someone he trusts. And it's clear that's another big component here is the work that the young receivers and tight ends have done as far as knowing what the hell they're supposed to be doing from play to play, which certainly wasn't the case earlier this season.

I mean, we've got shots of Matt LaFleur ripping into guys on the sideline. Luke Musgrave in a nationally televised game basically gets undressed because he ran literally ran the wrong route you know that has all disappeared I mean there are guys now they get it they know what they're not only what their route is but their adjustments to coverage and things of that nature they're on the same page with Jordan Love and yeah Jordan has greatly reduced I mean I think maybe every game there's one throw where you can look at and say, okay, that's probably something you want to try to avoid. But for the most part, he has been on

time. He has been in rhythm. He knows where he wants to go with the ball, given what's presented at the line of scrimmage in a way that, yeah, wasn't happening earlier in the season. You talk about quick development. I expected him to improve throughout the season. We've heard general manager Brian Gutekunst talk a lot about, oh, he just needs to play, right? He's at that point, having sat for three years, there's not much more he can learn other than getting on the football field, strapping it up, and playing down after down for a full season, which is, you know, I expected, again, I expected some hiccups. I expected rough stretches. I did not expect him to improve as quickly as he has, especially in this regard, because as you know, I mean, turnovers win and lose ball games. Winning the turnover battle is how

Aaron Rodgers and his teams won so many games when he was the quarterback in Green Bay. The fact that Jordan has improved in that area alone, let alone all the others, it's striking. And I think it's gone a long way to answering the question, like, is this the guy going forward? At this point, there's two games left and two really challenging defenses to face yet. But I think at this point, Green Bay has pretty much decided they found their guy.

So how have you managed the roller coaster of learning about a quarterback because it's been a very long time not saying that you haven't been through it before oh yeah a long time ago yes yeah i was gonna say a little less gray in the beard i'm guessing when you were going through that uh but just because you uh you know talk with the fans all the time like the the fan base and how they have dealt with this because every year with aaron rogers you know talk with the fans all the time like the the fan base and how they have dealt with this because every year with aaron rogers you just went into the season assuming that you should win between 11 and 14 games and have some of the greatest right greatest

quarterback play on earth and then it was about everything else you were talking about injuries left guards defenses which we'll get to uh but i but i'm so i'm so curious about this because finding out about a new quarterback can either be really fun or really frustrating well it's the media landscape we're in now is a very different proposition than when aaron came on board right in 2008 although it was fun going back and digging up remember twitter launched in 2008 and there have there have been some stray tweets out there condemning Aaron Rodgers. He's not Brett Favre.

He's never going to be anything, blah, blah, blah. It's been fascinating to juxtapose those with some of the reactions to Jordan Love. And look, every kind of throw becomes a referendum in this social media age, right? What I try to tell fans is to step back, take the 30,000 foot view, try to look at it through the lens of how the Packers are probably viewing it. Like, let's look at the whole body of work. And at the end of the season,

let's see what we've got, you know, but this day and age, it's every interception is catastrophic. Every decision that isn't a touchdown pass essentially turns into, well, what went wrong rather than, well, what did you see? Like, how was he learning from that? And it's fun to watch Jordan kind of grow on the job, right? Which he certainly has. There's a lot of comparison to Aaron Rodgers just because that's who he's replacing. But to me, it's kind of fascinating to watch. You do see some of the similarities as far as like the mannerisms, the stuff at the line of scrimmage. You can definitely tell, oh, he's learned that from Aaron, like that he watched Aaron for three years. That makes a ton of sense, but as far as his sensibility and how he plays the position, I really see a lot more of Brett

Favre than I do Aaron Rodgers. I mean, much more of a gunslinger, much more of a guy who's not afraid to trust his arm and put the ball in a place where he thinks, yeah, my guy's going to go make a play, right? Much like Brett did. And I think earlier this year, you saw it getting him into some trouble at times. And I do think it's been kind of amazing how he's been able to harness that.

And look, you got to give a lot of credit to Matt LaFleur and Tom Clements, the guys who are coaching him up each and every day. And, you know, looking at the film and trying to decide game plan wise, okay, what are his strengths? What should we be trying to lean into a little bit more? I think they've done a good job in that regard. But Jordan's the one on the field making it happen, right? And I do think those tendencies are still there, but he's just really smart about it in a way that I didn't expect to happen until at least like next season. But he's really kind of reined it in and he's still off on a few throws. You know, you mentioned the Giants game. He came out pretty poor in that game. But what was so encouraging is

that unlike earlier in the season, when that was kind of just the norm throughout the game, you saw him rally in the second half. He really turned it on and got hot and led them to what should have been a game winning touchdown. Much like Aaron Rodgers, his first year. You know, I just the growth and the speed of the growth has been I'm not going to say shocking, but it's been a surprise. No doubt. Let me throw another stat at you. Jordan Love, when using play action his completion

percentage goes up by 11 i know i'm not shocking you with these numbers but uh i i have been most impressed because i've tried to watch as much as i can of the packers and jordan love and early in the season versus now it looks like they're running a lot of different stuff offensively that has worked for him uh play actions and screens help all quarterbacks they're not necessarily an easy button as we see from the vikings who have no idea how to run a screen um but if you do know how to run them they really help you uh quite a bit and that i'm curious about that relationship too and how you've watched it grow with LeFleur and Jordan Love because I'm sure Matt LeFleur came into the season thinking,

I'm just going to have him run my whole offense and do everything I want him to do, and then you have to pare it down to what works for him. But I think this has been development of Jordan Love, being much safer with the football, trusting his receivers, they've grown with him. But I also think that this is a really excellent coaching job and unsurprisingly i saw people earlier this year saying it's time to fire matt lafleur and move on that's still happening but because he won't fire his defensive coordinator but yes there's a lot of that we'll get to that yeah there's no doubt i mean that's the thing right when people start talking about it's time to fire matt lafleur i'm like have you watched

this season unfold at all i mean the work they are doing on offense in the last six weeks they have i think a top five offense i mean it depends on what metric you're going to look at but they are playing lights out ball on offense at just the right time just when you want to be peaking and they're doing it i mean this last game against carolina they're without christian watson they're without jayden reed they're without Christian Watson. They're without Jaden Reed. They're without Luke Musgrave. They lose Dontavion Wicks at halftime, and they're still putting up 33 points. You know, it's like that doesn't just happen. That's because you have a game planner and a play caller and a quarterback who are in rhythm and in sync and know exactly what they want to do

to attack defenses. And I do think Matt's done a really good job of not spoon-feeding Jordan Love. You'd mentioned the play action and things of that nature, but I think when you looked at it earlier this season, when they were in that four-game losing streak, it was so frustrating. They went on that stretch. It was just, I've never seen anything like it, where they couldn't score in the first half of games. I mean, they could barely pick up first downs, let alone score points. I've never seen an offense that frustrated. But it speaks to Matt and his long-term view and what he wanted to accomplish. He never really dumbed it down.

He never kind of said, okay, we're going to button it up. We're just going to run the ball. We'll maybe work off play action. He kept it like he kept the main thing the main thing. And he's like, no, Jordan's going to run the offense. Like he's got to because if he can't, we've got to learn that. And we've got to know that that's this is probably not the guy for us. But Matt stuck with it. He has kept it pretty much his offense.

Right. He has tailored it a bit. And there's certainly stuff where he's trying to help this quarterback. And I don't think that's unlike anything that happens in pretty much any NFL city but man he has like I said he has not dumbed it down and Jordan has risen to the occasion and improved and gotten a lot better but uh that's the point that I keep trying to make when people start talking about LaFleur's job security it's like look he has to hire a new defensive coordinator there's zero doubt about that but you cannot look at this season and the growth of your what's

probably going to be your long-term guy a quarterback for the next x number of years and tell me that matt shouldn't be sticking around to help him continue to develop because he's done a phenomenal job in that regard so far yeah i mean when i talk about play actions and screens if they're working it's a huge compliment to the coaches and i find it funny you talk about like internet things and whatever when it's a criticism if the quarterback and coach are on the same page and the coach is helping the quarterback like oh brock purdy he's just got a coach who's doing stuff for him like okay well what what would you prefer joe montana didn't with with bill walsh you know it's like that's the symbiotic nature of the game like you want that that's what you should strive for not criticize absolutely yeah i know i was getting a little

frustrated with the brock purdy dialogue and the whatever else it was like i'd like people to name me all the mvps who had no good receivers or no good coaches or whatever exactly right they're they're just everywhere throughout history. That's a totally different rant, though. But the last thing about just Jordan Love specifically is sort of the long term here now. And this is the answer. Like, I think that he's played

well enough to say definitively that this is not a Daniel Jones that they, you know, sort of just beefed up his numbers for a single year and beefed up. I mean, Jones threw like 12 touchdowns or something. But he has played true, complete quarterback, and now they have an opportunity to build. But the contract situation is a little weird, the way that they reworked his contract.

So kind of explain that, because that's something that obviously with kirk cousins the vikings went through where it's harder to build your roster around an expensive quarterback not impossible but how expensive is jordan love going to be when there's only this one year sample size that's the thing it's going to be sticker shock whenever it gets done i know there's going to be lots of arguments on the internet about it. There's zero doubt about that. But I do think, yeah, you look at Daniel Jones. I know the Geno Smith contract has been mentioned, though. I think he's kind of blown that out of the water at this point. I do think, yeah, they're going to commit to him long term. And that probably does mean $45 million a year.

And that is probably the floor, right? I wouldn't be surprised if Jordan's people ask for the moon, and maybe they meet somewhere in the middle. But it is kind of a, you know, it is a very unique situation because of the fact that Jordan, you know, they he did sit for three years under this new CBA that has never happened. I mean, when Aaron sat for three years, this idea, the fifth year option didn't exist, right? And so when the Packers faced the question of should we, you know, put the fifth year option on him, they extended his deal by a year. They didn't utilize the fifth year option, but there is language in the CBA now where once you've made

that negotiation and you have a new contract, you cannot increase their salary or you can't basically touch the deal for another full year. So the Packers are locked in with Jordan Love until May. I think it's second or fourth around there. They can't talk to him about a deal until then. But I suspect those talks will occur once May rolls around. And I get the idea, and I've seen a lot of kind of hand-wringing from certain sections of the fan base, some people in the media talking about, oh, they should wait and they should go into his lame duck year because he's got one more year on his deal, right? I'm thinking, this is just me. This is how I operate. This is how I view it. It's like, you've gone through three years of sitting this dude. You've invested this much time trying to, like,

build him and develop him, and now you've got a year under your belt of watching, yep, he can operate the offense. he's improved all season long, he's certainly better than the Daniel Joneses of the world, and these guys who maybe are giving people pause when they look at teams who have committed money, and then the next year or years down the line, these guys probably aren't as good, whatever. Man, with Jordan Love, I think because of the fact that he sat for three years

and then he did get on the field and steadily improved throughout the season. And it's also, it's not like he's just putting up numbers, right? He's not just, okay, he's thrown some touchdowns and made a few nice plays. He is playing at a very high level. No matter what metric you want to look at, if you want to turn on the tape, he is playing the position. You mentioned playing the position. And it's not just making throws. It's reading defenses. It's setting protections. It's calling audibles. Everything at the line of scrimmage that you want him to do, he is doing at, again, a very high level. Now,

I'm fascinated to see what happens this week in Minnesota and against the Bears in the final week of the season, because those two defenses are really tough. I mean, Minnesota got after Jordan pretty damn well that first time around, though a number of drops didn't help his cause. But those are kind of like, you know, really good tests here at the end of the year where, okay, you're playing at a high level, but can you continue in a really hostile environment against a very good defense? I mean, there's still some boxes to check here, I think.

But, again, get to the end of the year, you look at the total sum of the work. I suspect the Packers will want to have those talks. Folks, I hope you've enjoyed listening to us talk about prize picks this year. But if you've missed it, here's how it works. You go to prizepicks.com and it is simple. You pick either more or less between two and six player stat projections and that's it now you're playing so if it's x number of yards for a quarterback you just decide are they going to throw for more or less than that number of yards but it works with lots of different options receiving yards touchdowns even field goals all sorts of sports as well prizepicks.com slash purple. Go there, use the code purple for the first deposit match up to $100. One of the reasons I like PrizePix, it is very simple to use. You'd see how we do it on the show

real quick and easy. And then we talk about our picks and also not expensive either. You can turn $10 into $250 by nailing just a couple of picks. So go to prizepix.com slash purple, the code purple daily fantasy sports made easy i mean this is going to be a very interesting test because it'll be his first start at u.s bank stadium i think he may have appeared somewhere along the line yeah he's played like in relief of jordan of aaron point. But yeah, this is his first start. And man, I'm going to tell you, I mean, I don't have to tell you, but I will admit, that is an insanely tough place to play.

I was there the opening game. And I tell the story all the time. I mean, because you know, the press box is open air. Like, you can't, it hurt my head. My brain hurt on third downs. Like, it's so loud. And I'm just trying to write. Like, I can't imagine on the field looking at the defense.

You're in your helmet. The sound is just insane. Like, it is a tough, tough place to play. And I do not envy Jordan's task on Sunday night at all. Yeah. I remember I asked Kirk Cousins once about playing in the Superdome because it's very similar. Where same deal with the press box where you're in there.

Yeah. Yes. And for all my instant recap articles, I apologize for the typos. I just blame US Bank Stadium if I lose track of a sentence or something. Like, hey, it impacts me too. And he talked about the like mental exhaustion of having to like scream the entire game and how much that wears you down and down and down. So that will be an interesting test. He is facing Brian Flores's defense at a

different time. So this is like going into a totally different season almost where love is playing completely different. His receivers are playing different. His coach is coaching different. And also DJ Wanham is now out for the season. He's been a key player for the Vikings. Byron Murphy Jr. has been banged up. Harrison Phillips played last week, banged up, had the lowest PFF grade he's ever had. And I'm sure that's due to injury. I think this is a little bit different than what we saw at Lambeau Field. Yeah, there's zero doubt. But still, Flores got after him good. In the way of the challenge at the line of scrimmage, right?

We've seen Jordan take control of that since then. That game against the Chiefs is probably his best game in that regard so far throughout this season. But I think, man, the way he's gotten after quarterbacks this year, especially in that building where you know you can take advantage of they have to be on a silent count and things of that nature, I just think it's going to be a real stiff test. They're banged up, there's no doubt.

But, man, it ain't like the Packers are a picture of health either. So I just think with Jordan having to – I just think it's a really good test, right? Like it's a coach who's got pretty decent command of his troops, no matter who they are. And I've just seen him be able to take advantage of some QBs, especially with a lot of the pressure stuff they run. And then showing pressure and dropping out of it, the cat and mouse game at the line of scrimmage. I think Flores has been excellent in that regard. And that's going to be a huge test for Jordan, no doubt.

Yeah, that's correct. And I think it will tell you something about Jordan Love because where we've seen inexperienced quarterbacks who have never seen it before have struggled. Good quarterbacks, Jared Goff, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, they did not have as much trouble with dealing with this defense because they've seen it. They've identified it. Plus, you know, now Flores has been doing it for a full season you've got some tape to break down yeah yeah right exactly so how how they deal with having seen it before and the wrinkles that yeah i like the cat and mouse game of this battle for sure i wanted to uh ask you oh and i was going to mention too that the running game may be different because aaron jones is healthy right so yeah well that's a that's a big boon right in the way that you look at that carolina

game aaron jones his first game basically since week one of being available for the full game right not being on a snap count etc it makes a huge difference it's the first game all season long that they crack 30 as an offense like they they put up 38 against the bears, but that was aided by a pick six. I mean, it's no secret when Aaron Jones is out there, it makes a world of difference. If for no other reason, it just helps you stay ahead of the sticks,

you know, and especially against the Vikings, that's a world you don't want to live in third and long, got to drop back and let him kind of go to town with his pressure packages. You want to stay in second and short, third and short, because God knows they're going to come after you if you don't. And that's what I think Detroit did really well against the Vikings, was running with Jameer Gibbs and staying ahead of the sticks.

Okay, the defensive side here, Aaron, what do we want to talk about? Oh, good. Okay, it's been great. Bye. Thanks. You know, well, I'm I'm having deja vu here because I watched the same exact thing play out with Ed Donatello. I am watching a Brian Flores defense that will finish the season unless they have catastrophic meltdowns as an above average defense with way, way less talent than they had just last year when Z'Darrius Smith was lighting it up, Patrick Peterson. And yet here we are scheme and usage of players and everything else, and just not playing the same defense every single play over and over. And now I'm following your Twitter going, Hey, that looks pretty familiar. And also a head coach who is from the same sort of tree, who is too nice to fire the defensive coordinator.

I mean, is this going to cost you the playoffs or what? It's definitely a possibility. But look, if they miss the playoffs, people point to the Joe Barry thing, and I understand it. They have not been anything resembling a competent defense down the stretch here. But look, the defense kept them in plenty of games earlier this season where the offense just couldn't generate anything. I think there's a 99% chance Man, that's why, like, for all the hand-wringing about LeFleur, I understand he is going to take this season. And I think there's a 99% chance Barry is gone this offseason, right? He wanted to keep Barry for continuity's sake.

He didn't want to be a coach who continually was turning over people on staff, turning over systems on staff on certain sides of the ball. I understood that. I didn't like it, but I understood it. I had hope. I had really hoped that Barry would kind of adjust a little bit and maybe progress a little as a play call or a game designer, but that certainly hasn't happened. It is so – it just feels like a complete rebuild is necessary on the defensive side of the ball as far as what's being run schematically, but also, like, what's being emphasized, who is being asked to do what. And, yeah, I – stale. The players seem uninspired.

And they tried in Carolina to change up whatever the approach was as far as not as much too high shell stuff. They tried to send pressure. They tried to play more man. Both of those metrics, highest they were throughout the entirety of this season, didn't matter. The fourth quarter was embarrassing. They kept getting burned.

They got Jair Alexander back, and he's given up really easy third-down completions. You got Stokes back from injury. He's getting cooked on a regular basis. Yeah, it's not not pretty it's not pretty on the defensive side of the ball and it doesn't appear that anybody has any answers i i also think that you know when you're talking about what kevin o'connell uh is able to do with his scheming and game planning uh you saw it the first time that they played the packers we also saw it against Detroit where if Nick Mullins doesn't throw four interceptions the Vikings uh would have put up a lot more points amazing and and the uh and the thing is the opportunities were there with the play designs

for open receivers on most of his interceptions it's just he's a real one man he's a real one you talk about a guy who can get in his bag. He's legit as hell, no question. And this is a kitchen sink game when it comes to throwing everything at Joe Barry's defense. And what I see just from generally watching is I don't see quarterbacks ever look confused at what they saw pre-snap to post-snap. To me, that's where the game is won these days. It's not like just can this guy cover that guy one-on-one?

It's entirely how much can you confuse the opposing quarterback? And opposing quarterbacks are not confused at all. And that's why Kirk Cousins had one of his best games ever against the Packers because if you don't confuse Kirk, he's just going to stand back there and throw it. So I think no matter who's playing quarterback for the Vikings, it gives them a chance this week against the defense that they should be able to identify and make the proper reads against this Packers defense. Yeah, it's been like, remember who was it?

One of your coaches whose name is escaping me right now. Like they used to tease that the offense was West Coast 101, like day one install. And that's what it feels like facing the Packers defense right now. It's the first day of training camp. You're running the most basic stuff. I mean, when Tommy DeVito goes on national television and walks up and down the field,

you've got a pretty good indication of how bad your defense is. To your point, there's no confusion on the offensive side of the ball. You know exactly what you're getting at the snap of the ball. You can read it pre-snap. I mean, when I'm calling this stuff out, like prior to the snap of the ball, you know they're able to sit there and go, oh, look, I know what they're running. It's a, it's this is cover three or that's cover two or, you know, and every once in a while they send pressure. And they, oh, look, I know what they're running. It's this is cover three or that's cover two. And every once in a while they send pressure. And like I said, they sent a little more this past game, but they don't practice it well enough,

like enough to really be good at it because that's not who they are. It's not their DNA. So you had literal pressures last week where you have a guy like – you have Rashawn Gary trying to go outside of a guy where he's got Quay Walker going around him so now you've just widened the pressure and given a free lane for the quarterback just oh thanks a lot this rookie quarterback who has looked terrible all year suddenly springs to life against the Green Bay Packers and that has happened the last three weeks in a row it's just mind-numbing at this

point. Because again, I don't know what they can hang their hat on. They don't do anything well. There's not a thing they do well other than maybe every once in a while they can get after the quarterback with four. And when that happens, they're pretty successful. The problem is they keep getting opposing offenses into a second 18 or third and 12, and then just give up easy completions and they don't rally and tackle and they don't get them down before the sticks. And even if they do, then it's fourth and short and teams just go for it. Like it's,

it's mind numbing to watch how poor this defense plays on every level. So yeah, I suspect whoever the quarterback is for the Vikings, they're going to have a decent day. No question. You know what this sounds like to me, Aaron? Sounds like this could be a pretty wild-ass ball game. That's right.

I'm fully expecting it. I think there's a reason the NFL was like, no, no, no, no. Keep this one in prime time. I think it's going to be kind of nuts. Like, I have zero doubt. No doubt. I think we always knew exactly what to expect with Zimmer versus Aaron Rodgers. Yes. And it would play out in different ways, but it was always the same version of the same thing.

It was like, does Aaron get Zim or does Zim get Aaron? And that determines how this game is going to go. This one, I mean, it's been such a crazy ride trying to analyze. Like, of course, people here want Kevin O'Connell fired and everything because that's how we do it. Do they really? Do they really? Is that true?

Do you get that? I do get that. I get that every week. Football fans are insane, man. They're insane. That's a really good young coach who is dealing with the fact that his quarterback got hurt. That's it.

That's literally all that's happening in minnesota right now and also justin jefferson was missing for half the year and they still found a way to win games and such but he's a good young coach wanting him fired in his second season is insanity to me insanity and he's also still eight games over 500 as well yeah no i know yeah that does that does happen i think that there are just like every coach there And he's also still eight games over 500 as well. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, that does happen. I think that just like every coach, there are reasonable critiques. Yes, of course. But the hardest thing, which you know very little about,

is how is he adjusted to the different quarterbacks and so forth? Although you went through it with Brett Hundley. How stupid did everyone look at Brett Hundley? This is exactly my point. This man won with Dobbs at quarterback having not practiced. I understand things have happened since then and things have been up and down and the injuries like you're talking about, but wanting him fired after a second season

and everything that's been thrown at them that's insanity to me but yeah no please fire him because i think he's a good young coach and that'll be better for the packers please go ahead i yeah i did uh on the last post game show i i try not to let the comment section get to me but i did lose it a little bit i was like just uh oh i know that game i know that game well yes yeah eventually eventually you're just like, please stop. Like, you know, I don't know how you're supposed to win with Nick Mullins throwing four interceptions. And I watched the tape back of that game. I don't they haven't announced it to us yet as we record this, but I just don't know how you can do that again.

But it seems like this is the hardest game to predict. Maybe that you and I have ever talked about leading into it. Right. Yeah, it's going to be really difficult. And look, you can only glean so much from that first matchup, right? I mean, both teams are very, very different. I will say the one thing that gives me a bit of hope looking at it is the number of drop passes the Packers had in that first matchup.

I mean, none bigger than the one by Dontavion Wicks down by the end zone that I think makes it a one-score game if they can punch it in there. I think they've had so much growth on the offensive side of the ball. I do expect a better showing from the Packers. But I'm telling you, man, and I don't know if I've probably beaten this into the ground, but I think that defense is going to get after the Packers in a way that they probably haven't had issues with over the course of this last month or so. I just think, especially, again, in that environment, tough, man.

It's going to be really tough. And I think you'll start it off by talking about the fact that Jordan has not put the ball in jeopardy at all, essentially, over the course of the last six games or so. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a game where they get him once. Even Aaron Rodgers would go into that building and throw picks. It's never a surprise to me in Minnesota when a Packers quarterback plays poorly. It's just the environment is so raucous.

It is so electric. It's going to be on primetime, New Year's Eve. The whole country is watching. I think the Vikings are going to be amped for this, and I think that a big part of it, and we've talked about this a lot at GZTV, when you go into those kind of environments on the road, national television, blah, blah, blah, you know the vibe is going to be insane, right?

The energy at the start of that game is going to be nuts. You've got to survive that initial surge. Like that first 10, 15 minutes, if you can get through that and it's not like 17-nothing already, then you've got a chance, right? But hey, one fumbled snap, 15 minutes, if we can get through that and it's not like 17, nothing already, then you've got a chance, right? But Hey, we have one fumbled snap, one mistake. And all of a sudden they've got the ball on your end and they score. And then now it's two scores and it changes the whole complexity of the game, the whole kind of script of the game. So a big, big part of it for me is how do they survive that kind of initial surge of energy? Cause it's going to be real.

And it's something that to this extent, I don't think they've had to deal with yet. Oh, and also playing in a, an actual city, um, that throws everybody off in a, in a stadium that was built past like world war two.

It's, they just don't know what to do. It's like stepping, you're adorable. Stepping into the modern era. Remake of Lambo. What happened in 2003, sir.

But the bowl is very much intact, yes. What's all this technology? What are these video boards? All this light. We got new video boards in Lambeau. Just relax. Just relax. They even have a video of Jordan Love now, like when the fans inevitably start doing the wave when the Packers are on offense.

They have a video of Jordan Love that says the wave? Really? Save it for when we're on defense. We're just excited in Green Bay. We're just happy just happy to be there we're just having a good time it's just a party you know nothing wrong with that okay sure yeah I mean but when the players get off the bus and see the tall buildings they might be you might have to do like like the Hoosiers thing where they get out of yards and say it's only 10 yards. I think you'll find the exact same measurements at our field back home. Yes, exactly. Well played.

Well played. Last thing for you, Aaron. This division, if we go back and have the same conversation a year ago, we're being like, I have no idea what's going to happen in this division. I feel like this year has clarified the future everywhere except for in Minnesota, where you know your quarterback is detroit knows what they're doing they're in win now mode and i think chicago knows what they're doing which is moving on from justin fields a draft and caleb williams number one

overall and probably keeping mad ibra fluce the way their defense is played and then all of a sudden they're a little bit scary uh going forward what is your sort of view of the way that things have played out in the NFC North this year? Yeah, I'd agree with all of that. I think it's going to be fascinating to see how, A, Detroit handles success. And look, they haven't really won much yet. They've won the division. Kudos to them. First time since 93.

Awesome. And I think they were the Vegas favorites this offseason. I don't think anyone's surprised by this. But you saw how the Packers got after them on Thanksgiving. You know, it's not like they're infallible and a big part of, you know, the NFL knocking you down is how you deal with success. I mean, there's a reason there aren't teams that go like year after year as division champs. Like we've seen it throughout this the league right like it's hard man like it's hard to sustain a winning team culture franchise what have you in Detroit certainly has no practice at it there's no doubt about that but I do think they've

positioned themselves really well obviously I think they're super talented on both sides of the ball I think they're really well coached. I think, yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see how they handle success in that regard. Totally agree with you on Chicago. Though, I do think there's still a really small sliver of a chance they stick with Fields.

I know that kind of everyone's talking about like he's already out the door. Hell, I saw an interview with him on a local television station where they're openly asking him questions about playing somewhere else next year. I'm like, have we announced this already? What's happening? But yeah, I think they are certainly a formidable defense at the moment.

And if that means Iberflis stays around, then I think if you're a fan of any of the other teams, it's probably a good thing because I don't think he's a great head coach. I think he you're a fan of any of the other teams, it's probably a good thing because I don't think he's a great head coach. I think he's a really good defensive mind and they are playing lights out defense. But I think it's very much to be determined as far as, okay, get him a great quarterback. Can he coach still? I don't know. I think that answer still needs to be kind of, that box still needs to be checked and then yeah you come to Minnesota and I've said it I think you know you've got a really good young head coach a really good

offensive mind which is what you want in the NFL these days it's all about the quarterback position right like what are they going to do there I know there's been a lot of talk around Cousins and what they want to do with him and possibly moving on I'm on. I would think it's a no-brainer they want to move on because, you know, I'm very old school. I always expect a general manager to want his own guy, right? The way Brian Kudikens went and got Jordan Love, the way Ted Thompson went and got Aaron Rodgers. I always want or I always think a general manager is going to want his own guy

at that position, which is why I'm thinking, yeah, Chicago probably does move on from Fields because because you know they that new regime wants their own guy but yeah i don't know man it to me like the the great unknown is you know the quarterback position they've found their defensive coordinator they've got oodles of talent on offense it's all about qb so i don't know have they won too many games to be in the quarterback market in the draft you know do they yet free agency i don't know man it's gonna be that's to me like i that's the one area where i'm like i have no idea which way they go the crazy thing is that there will be some vikings fans hoping that the packers win this week because we've got those in Green Bay too.

Yeah, the gap. But this is a serious thing. The gap between making the playoffs and then getting your skulls crushed in in the first round by San Francisco or something versus losing two games is like 10 draft slots, possibly. So this could be one of those franchise shaping couple of moments or they could just bring back kirk i don't know but i i tend to agree with you i think you you get people say you get two shots at quarterback you usually get one you get one shot so are you you know are you gonna go to go down swinging with a 36 year old dude coming off an achilles

who's won one playoff game in six years like or are you gonna pick your own guy which i think kevin o'connell would like to do and it resets your clock right like okay now and it's kind of what's happened with matt lafleur right like you had the year the last year of aaron rogers and now you've got the first year of jordan love that buys you time as a coach as an organization it's like okay we're starting to get answers about Jordan Love. You've got to think next year, yeah, the pressure's on. You've got to go win. You've got to be in the playoffs.

You've got to be at least making some kind of run into contention, right? But they've allowed themselves to make that transition through two years, and the quarterback resets that clock. And I think, again, if I'm GM in Minnesota, that's what I want. I want, okay, we've got everything we need is pretty much in place. Now let's reset the clock with a young quarterback, rookie deal, fill in around him, and let's get to work. That makes the most sense to me, but I have no idea how they're going to operate. Same here.

I don't either. I think that's really going to determine kind of where the NFC North ends up going is what they end up doing at that position. I would recommend to Vikings fans. She's had TV. I think it's a lot of fun. I love what you do, Aaron. I enjoy following you on Twitter. I enjoy following your work covering the Packers. I go to you to find out what's going on there and the vibe in Green Bay. So even though I'm sure that most of my audience despises you, they should still. But there's a curiosity. I know these people. They're like, what's going on over there? What's going on over there in Sheasland? They should despise me. That's how it's supposed to be. If they don't despise me, I'm doing my gig wrong.

So I appreciate it. I take that as a form of respect. It's all good. There's a little bit of like you don't like your neighbor, but what car are they driving? What do they got over there? They get a new SUV? Yep. That's what we got.

So, well, anyway, you do great work, Cheesehead TV. Glad that we could get together again. And I'm really looking forward to this one, man. Thanks for your time. It's going to be a lot of fun. Thanks so much for having me.