Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Aaron Rodgers gets hurt and the Vikings need to beat somebody good now

Episode Date: September 12, 2023

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill react to Aaron Rodgers getting injured and then discuss which upset the Vikings will need to pull to get back into it. They also answer a question about pressure on Kevin O'Connell and which teams should be panicking after Week 1 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here along with Manny Hill. And you know, before the show, we're exchanging emails and I'm saying, what do you want to talk about, Manny? What's on your mind? What do you think? We'll talk about a little Vikings, a little stuff from week one. And we'll just have a grand old time while the game is going on. And we'll just kind of have good vibes here and talk about week one and then aaron rogers got hurt and so that's where we're gonna start manny reaction to the jets being the most cursed franchise if you thought vikings fans your franchise was most cursed oh no that horse race they just pulled ahead in new york after months of hype after oh we've got a great coaching staff, defense, receivers.

Oh, it's going to be the Jets year. And here's the debut. And he hurts his ankle right off the bat. Reaction? Just to put this into context for Vikings fans, go back to 2009 when the Vikings opened up the season against the Cleveland Browns on the road. Imagine Brett Favre getting injured on like the first possession of that game on the road against the Cleveland Browns. That tells you everything you need to know about how Jets fans and Robert Sala, for that matter,

right now must be feeling about their prize acquisition of the offseason. This was the biggest story of the NFL offseason, was Aaron Rodgers going to the Jets as the missing piece to an otherwise roster that, you know, was ready to make a run to the Super Bowl, perhaps. And then he goes down on, like like the first possession of the season and now it's you know they're back to where they started last year with zach wilson playing quarterback for them um and oh by the way they're playing a division rival probably the best team in the division the buffalo bills so it's um sound the alarm in uh in the metal lands right now. I'm really feeling what Ken is feeling. He says, I'm 43 and rolled my ankle and it sucks getting old. I feel that all the time when I have anything happen to me.

And I'm like, I can't imagine being an NFL player with all the injuries that they deal with. But yes, I mean, Aaron Rodgers is old in the body, especially when you've been doing weird things to it for a while. Does not heal exactly the same way. But I don't know what is going to happen with Aaron Rodgers. He was carted off. It sounds like he's got a boot on, and now they've officially ruled him out for the rest of the game. Naturally, I mean, that injury looks pretty serious.

But there's so many ways that this could go. Like, what if Zach Wilson is amazing? Like all of a sudden out of nowhere, Zach Wilson finally learned to take football serious because we know he's very talented and then just comes out and starts like dropping laser dimes. That would be crazy. Remember though, nothing could be wilder than 1999 when Vinny Testaverde got hurt Torres Achilles for the jets in week one and Tom Tupa, their punter played quarterback, got them the lead. Then they brought in Rick Meyer who they had traded for and lost it.

There's a little hot route style, you know, way back machine for, for them. But you're, you're exactly right. I mean, all the discussion all off season. And I will say that there was some skepticism for me about like is rogers still gonna have it i thought he looked a little bit frail just in the preseason he didn't look as strong as he did before i know this is more of a bad luck thing not a how he took care of his body but i'm just gonna make fun of him for that but i have to tell you manny it isn't just like i know vikings fans you'll be, Rogers, you know, you deserve this or whatever.

This is really disappointing. I mean, it is really disappointing because I think I wanted to see how it played out either way. And now who knows if we get to see that? Do we get to see it in week eight? Do we get to see it? I mean, who knows? Like, is he back next week?

Is he out for the season with the torn Achilles? You tear your Achilles, it's over and you're not coming back the whole season. You get a sprained ankle. Well, okay. A couple of weeks, high ankle sprain might be longer than that, but even just this not happening right off the bat. And if you look at the jet schedule, they play the Cowboys next week, their offensive line's not very good. They're going to get killed. If they lose this game, go to Owen-2 right away, the whole storyline is completely blown up. And I think it stinks. I think it stinks for the NFL because even if this went bad, it would have been fun to talk about. If it went good, it would have been interesting to see how far they can go.

And now it feels like it's completely off the table. And you said it with the schedule they have coming up. I mean, let's just say, hypothetically speaking, it's a sprained ankle and he's going to be out for a couple of weeks. OK, well, if he comes back after, you know, let's say after four games and they're one in three, let's say, what does that do for the rest of their season? I mean, they don't with the the division that they're in especially, you know, you lose, let's say they lose tonight to Buffalo. Look how good Miami looked yesterday, at least offensively, how good the Dolphins looked.

New England is, you know, I'm not super high on them, but they're scrappy and they play hard. And, you know, they made things difficult for the Eagles yesterday. That's not going to be an easy team to play going into foxborough perhaps um so you're in a tough division you're in the better you know more competitive conference i think if the jets get off to a bad start because aaron rogers misses a few games what does this do for their season and what is he if when he does come back what is he playing for really at this point?

If they get to the point late in the season and they're 6-7 because they got off to a bad start because he missed a few games, what type of Aaron Rodgers are we going to see? Are we going to see the pouty Aaron Rodgers that we saw the last season in Green Bay because they're out of it and not very competitive. That's going to be really fascinating to watch how that develops over the course of the season. And just to run through their games to start the season.

So they're playing Buffalo right now. And then at Dallas, New England, Kansas City, at Denver, which is not going to be necessarily easy with Denver's defense, and then Philadelphia before their bye week. That's the first six weeks. They play the two teams that were in the Super Bowl and Dallas, who after yesterday made a case for maybe eventually they'll be in the Super Bowl. So yeah, wow. Football just gives us an unbelievable amount of storylines in a single week, and we thought we were going to cover a lot of them. And then it just slaps us right in the face.

But I have to give Bradley credit for the best comment off the bat here, which is if Rogers is done for the year, did the jets get desperate and the Vikings trade Kirk cousins before the trade deadline? Yes, Bradley. Yes. You understand the essence of this show and like that that right

there is understanding the whole thing that's the assignment from the comment section and you understood it and did it well uh how how many tweets did you see yesterday man because i got a bunch of emails and everything else about the vikings losing that game and just being like oh time to tank there was a lot of give up when it came to yesterday's game after they lost. I saw somebody tweeting that tweeted out, if the Cowboys continue to get off to this great start and the Vikings kind of fall in the tank, should the Vikings call the Cowboys about trading for Trey Lance

and then starting the rest of the season, the Vikings are in bad shape. I thought that was kind of interesting, too. But yeah, it's it's week one overreaction, man. It's it's it's what we're here for. We love it. OK, I mean, the comment section is absolutely on fire. Nick says time is a flat circle. comes rogers to the vikings in 2024 who am i to say no uh brett farve got hurt in new york it slowed him down they missed the playoffs and then he came on strolling on to minnesota you know that rogers has always been a justin jefferson fan he wanted the packers to draft justin jeff. So I feel like this has to happen. Does it not?

This is good for Matthew right here to the jets, have a shaman on staff to heal him up. Love that. Love that. I, I, I, I understand where Jordan is coming from. Says I wanted to watch Rogers suck for the whole season, which, but that, I mean, that's the thing though, right? Like that is the thing is like, I wanted to see it play out either way, because if he was great, then every week it would be like, okay, but how, how good are they? How good is, is he, can they go farther than the Packers did when they won 13 games? But then there was another part that was like, okay, well, uh, if it's bad, of course, Vikings fans are going to have a great time, but if it's bad, of course, Vikings fans are going to have a great time.

But if it's bad, then that's going to light on fire because it's New York and the whole thing's going to go down. So pretty crazy. But anyway, so we're going to have a lot to talk about through the whole thing. And we'll see if we get any more injury updates on Aaron Rodgers before the end of the night. I'm sure that every single NFL insider is texting his agent, everyone with the Jets, to find out as much as they can. But it is funny how many people fully believe Aaron Rodgers will someday be a Green Bay Packer. So anyway, on the Vikings, you asked me something interesting via email, Manny, you said, and this is a great place to start off the show that, you know, when a team loses a game, they shouldn't like the Vikings did. They have to make up for it somewhere by beating a team. They shouldn't. Well, the Vikings play the

Philadelphia Eagles this week. So that's a potential nomination. Where else, where else do they have to make this up? Oh, apparently they said on the broadcast that the x-rays are negative, which reminds me of the Michael Scott, like, Oh, that it was negative. And he's like, I'm so sorry. Remember that? That's a great, that's a great, great scene in the office. Anyway. So, okay. X-rays are negative. I guess that means that it's not broken, but it might be sprained,

and we'll see how it impacts the season overall. But where do they have to make up for this, Manny? Because I think the one thing that I said consistently is if you lose this game, things get tilted uphill pretty badly from the very start of the season, and that's how it feels. But, of course, last year they beat Buffalo. They beat some other good teams. Where do they have to make up for this now and and is it this week against the eagles

well i i have a hard time thinking it's going to be against the eagles just because i mean you know this you've you've been there you've covered games there. That is a nasty place to play, man. And that is a team that the quarterback is great. They were in the Super Bowl last year and very nearly won the Super Bowl last year. I know they didn't look great against New England yesterday, but the weather was kind of weird. And, you know, Foxborough is always kind of a weird place to play for opposing teams. So I have a hard time believing it's going to be Thursday. But you kind of look at their schedule going ahead here. There's some teams that they have coming up that you look at on paper

and say, oh, that team's better than the Vikings, and it's not really even a discussion or a conversation. But you look and you say, well, maybe they can pull it off the one that i'm kind of looking at is and and it's it's hard to think that that i could save this team because they look fantastic yesterday is san francisco on monday night october 23rd and the reason why is the niners look fantastic yesterday. They just obliterated the Steelers yesterday. So they look awesome.

But when you look back the last few years under Kyle Shanahan, when the Niners have had good teams, there's always like that one game on their schedule, the one loss that they have where they lose to a team and you're like, really? They lost to them? Like last year was Denver. Remember, I think it was early in the season, like week three,

they lost 11-10 to a Broncos team that ended up not being very good. And you're kind of like, really, Niners? Like you lost to them? Now this was before they made the big trade for Christian McCaffrey. And when they got him, he really kind of sparked them the rest of the season. But still, it's like 11 to 10, really? And like a couple of years or a year before that, I think they lost a road game to Atlanta, a not very good Atlanta team or something like that.

So every once in a while, even when the Niners are really good under Kyle Shanahan, they have that one little blip where it's kind of like, how did they lose that game? They shouldn't have lost to a team that, that inferior to them. So I'm going to go with the Niners. If they can find a way, the Vikings can find a way to maybe catch the Niners on an, on an off night. Maybe that's the game that they can make up. Yeah. You know, when I look at the schedule, I feel like that one, if they can survive this first part of the schedule is a real huge swing game to whether they can make the playoffs or not. And I know we're getting like way far ahead of ourselves, but that's sort of the point of the question.

So you got Philadelphia. Let's say you don't beat Philadelphia. You go to Owen too. If you can get to two and three after the first five weeks, then your season is not over. You're, you're in okay shape at two and three. You can turn things around and get rolling.

At Chicago is the one after Kansas City. And I'm not going to judge it off of one game, how Justin Fields looks, but he looked pretty Justin Fields-y to me yesterday against the Packers. And Chicago can't pressure the quarterback. We know what happens when Kirk Cousins doesn't get pressured. He shreds teams. He actually has kind of been fine at Chicago since Akeem Hicks doesn't play there anymore with Akeem Hicks, not with Akeem Hicks, very different for Kirk Cousins, but let's just say, okay, that's a very winnable game. If you can get to 500 by

Chicago and win the San Francisco game, then it's green Bay, it's Atlanta, it's New Orleans, it's Denver, it's Chicago. I mean, you can come out of those games with a winning record and all of a sudden your season is back on and you've got a chance to get rolling down the stretch. Big games against Detroit. It is crazy how much this game against Tampa Bay has a domino effect, how much harder it becomes when you look at that schedule and try to project out. But to your point, if you survive the first part of the season and win that San Francisco game, it's sort of like game on, playoff chase on, you're all good, you're kind of back in it. But if you lose that one, then it's going to feel like you're really, really fighting uphill. But I think it actually comes earlier than that on September 24th against the Los Angeles Chargers

because they are a hard team. I don't know at that point if the Chargers or Vikings will be favored. It's hard to say how the Chargers are going to play. Their defense struggled against Miami. Their offense certainly didn't. They have one of the best quarterbacks in the league in Justin Herbert. They now have Kellen Moore. So, you know, I mean, they're going to be a tough opponent to come to U.S. Bank Stadium and play the Vikings. But that to me, when we talk about getting to two and three, getting to three and two after five weeks, that's the one you have to win. If you don't win in Philadelphia, which I think is going to have to be a very, very tough test for them on a short week. Philadelphia also has some very beastly defensive linemen, which always cause big problems for

the Vikings. I think those are good nominations. And then when you, you know, you look at the schedule, I think it really comes down to the end of the season. Can you actually get two from either Detroit or Green Bay? Because the last three weeks are two times against Detroit and then Green Bay. And when we've seen seasons like this play out, like normal Viking seasons with Kirk Cousins, it usually comes down to kind of like that one game, whether it's the last game of the season in 2018 or in 2020 when they lost to Mitch Trubisky at home

or even when they lost to the winless Detroit Lions in Detroit. There's always that one game that kind of puts it over the edge when they have missed the playoffs. So they're going to have to win one of those. But I really think that that's the correct takeaway is to not say it's time to tank and the season's over or anything or stop watching Vikings football. It's just that when you look at that schedule, I think they really need to either beat Philadelphia or Los Angeles or it's going to be big problems. Absolutely. And if you if you lose both of those games, now you're 0-3. You know, you're going into Carolina for week four and you're probably going to win that game

because the Panthers aren't very good. But then you're staring down the barrel of 1-4 because you've got Kansas City coming in. And now if you're 1-4 going up against the defending world champions, what's the mindset of the team at that point? You know what I mean? You're you're you're not playing well. Your record is bad. You've got probably the best team in the league, you know, depending on what happens. You know, how healthy is Travis Kelsey by then? Do they, you know, is Chris Jones decide to come back and play for them at that point?

Which if Chris Jones is playing by that time, look out at Ingram, look out Garrett Bradbury. If he's healthy, that's going to be trouble. And then if you lose that game, now you're, you're one in five or no, you're, you're one in four going into you'd be one in four going into Chicago. So that that's this, this next stretch, you're one in four going into, you'd be one in four going into Chicago. So that's this next stretch. You got to find a way to get one of these next two games. And then don't stumble at Carolina either.

Like you can't, this is still the Vikings. Like we know that they have those occasional games where they, you know, just like yesterday, they lose to a team that they shouldn't. And you're kind of left scratching your head, like what just happened? So these next couple of weeks, man, it's going to be pivotal for the rest of the season. In case you missed it last week, folks, we are starting a brand new segment on the show using the website and the app for prize picks. If you haven't heard of it before, it's super simple.

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Folks, I'm not sure if you realize, but after this week, your hometown football team in Minnesota actually isn't at home all that much the rest of the year. They are on the road nine times this season, which means if you're traveling with the team, then you're going to want to check out Game Time. It's the fast and easy way to buy tickets to everything football.

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So you can buy tickets in seconds and have them arrive right to your phone. It's great. Download the GameTime app app create an account and use the code insider for twenty dollars off your first purchase terms apply again create an account and redeem code insider for twenty dollars off your first purchase download the game time app today last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed and there there is an update on the Chris Jones situation, by the way, that the reports that he is signing a one-year deal. So he's coming back. So he'll, he will likely be, I assume he's going to be back probably in the next week or two. So that, that just came out

earlier today. So, but to your point, when you look at the interior defensive linemen that they play, there's no answer. And our friend T. Kubler tweets that they need to duct tape Ed Ingram's arm to his side. He doesn't knock the ball out of Kirk's hand. I've never seen anything like that before in my life. But the bigger story on that, by the way, is that he graded a 40 by PFF for the game. He was the worst graded offensive lineman they had. And it's no surprise whatsoever PFF for the game. He was the worst graded offensive lineman they had. And it's no surprise whatsoever because that's the history.

He led the team in pressures allowed. Brian O'Neill had a good game. Ezra Cleveland actually passed blocked well. But we know they're going to have problems at center if Garrett Bradbury doesn't return. And here you've got to face a lot of these beastly defensive linemen, even in Carolina. Derek Brown was eating people the other day. So there is no answer to that coming anytime soon. And Daniel says the Eagles defensive line is going to eat on Thursday night, sadly. And we're going to see a lot of mad Kirk on Thursday. What did you, what did you make of that? Cause Nathan comments on that as well. Clear through week one, the JJn with Kirk coming up short.

I mean, I think that's probably an overreaction. Justin Jefferson has never been happy about losing the entire time he's been here. And Kirk Cousins has yelled at people on the sideline before, but it felt like that one they understood. You should win that football game. I think that was the frustration. And I was going to ask you this, Manny the kirk era has had a lot of these it's had a lot of like oh they upset that team and they played a great game or whatever and they've put up you know big numbers and and

had some big wins but they've also had a lot of losses where you went that wasn't supposed to happen you weren't supposed to lose to that team kind of like far more than they should have during this last, what, five years. Did that game remind you of any, like of any previous like Viking classic, what happened there? Cause to me, it wasn't, it wasn't like a bills game in 2018 where it was just over and I don't even know what happened. So I was trying to think like, what, what did that, what did that remind me of? Did you think of any examples that that was similar to what you saw

yesterday? The game that immediately came to my mind when I, when you send me the question was the Cooper rush game from 2021, because it's, it's just, it was just such a weird kind of a low scoring game that came down to one possession. There were just like weird, like Kirky things that happened where the defensive front of the opposing team is getting a lot of pressure and just making Kirk kind of frustrated. You know, we saw that in the game yesterday with a lot of the blitz packages and just, you know, that front seven of Tampa Bay getting a lot of frustrated. You know, we saw that, we saw that in the game yesterday with a lot of the blitz packages and just, you know, that, that front seven of Tampa Bay, getting a lot of pressure.

That night when the Cowboys came in, I think it was a Sunday night game too, if I'm not mistaken, that Cooper rush game, it was just, it was rookie Micah Parsons and Randy Gregory, just getting after Kirk Cousins every other play and they just the vikings were just flustered and they couldn't do anything offensively and then you just lose to a quarterback that you just shouldn't lose to like you just you just you should never lose to cooper rush like never especially at that time when like nobody knew anything about Cooper Rush, had never heard of him before, ever.

And in this particular case, like yesterday, you can't lose to Baker Mayfield at home in the opening day of the season. And Baker didn't even play that well. He didn't even play well enough to really win. The Vikings just shot themselves in the foot so many times yesterday. So the first game that came to my mind when I saw that question was the Cooper Rush game from two years ago. So that's funny because a Dallas game came to mind for me, but it wasn't that one. It was actually the Andy Dalton game in 2020. Because similarly, I remember feeling like Andy Dalton's not playing well in this football game. And yet they got, I believe, a strip sack on Kirk early in that game.

And then there were opportunities to potentially go win it. And the person who led the game winning drive was Andy Dalton of all people. And we were like, wait, Andy Dalton just let a game winning drive against the Viking. What is going on here? What year is this? What is happening? And the same thing, it felt that way with Baker Mayfield. It was like, wait, did Baker Mayfield just come up with some super clutch plays

to win this game? I mean, I was sitting next to our friend Judd Zolgad, and I said, here's what's going to happen. Because I know Todd Bowles, and Todd Bowles doesn't know how to manage a game. And so Todd Bowles, you know, I think here's, what's going to happen. He's going to kick the field goal. They're going to make the field goal. They're going to go up by six.

Kirk's going to get it back, throw it to KJ Osborne or something. They're going to win by one. That's what's going to happen. I was sure of this, not just because of last year, just because Todd Bowles wouldn't go for it on fourth down and Baker's not good enough to make a play. And then he steamrolls over a guy to get a first down and then makes an incredible throw, although better catch. But to Chris Godwin for a first down, I was like, what just happened?

And I, the Andy Dalton game felt the same exact way. And both had that kind of gut punch ish type of feel where you went like, that's not a game that you should lose. So, yeah, I mean, I, I think that that's why it's not an all-timer but it's more of a and that's the thing it's like when they lost to atlanta remember that winless atlanta team that was an all-timer that was like what in the heck just happened same with the winless detroit this was more of a that seems good enough to beat you but they should not have beat you and you kind of beat yourself more than anything uh okay this one's this one's pretty good they need

to update the pff grading system to properly score strip sacking your own quarterback jordan that's good that's good so i tripping so i know this um yeah i know at least he didn't step on his foot he just strip sacked him and i mean everybody, when we asked Ed or when we asked Kevin O'Connell, they're just like, I don't know. I just that's it'll probably never happen again. But I was thinking about this because I wrote a book about PFF and their history. If anybody wants to buy it, it's coming out soon. Pre-sales ready.

But one of the things that they explained to me is how the grading system actually works. And there's like a 300 page book of every single possible scenario that you could ever think of, of how to grade it. Like all the things that could happen. So somebody runs a route this way, makes a catch this sort of way, what you would grade it. Is it a zero? Is it a one one is it a two that kind of thing that's how the scale works from negative 0.2 to two and every play is graded on that scale okay there's no way this is in that book there's no way there's no way and i'm gonna ask somebody there's no way strip sacking your own quarterback as a guard is in that book so

yeah great point, great point. Great point by Jordan there. Daniel says, how important is the next four games for Kevin O'Connell? I feel like mostly fans are positive on Kevin O'Connell, but if they go one and five, I can see the pitchforks coming out for KOC. I don't know. I mean, I had a few people, Manny, say the other day or yesterday, do you think his play calling isn't that good? I was kind of like, I don't know.

I mean, they moved the ball, but Ed Ingram stripsacked him. I'm not really sure. Certainly, you could focus on the tight end screen. That was bad. But they still had opportunities to make plays after that. I don't want to go in on that, but I think that'll start becoming a thing if the offense struggles. And maybe there will be a little bit of because you can always creep in with storylines that aren't really real because the real explanation, if this team goes one in five, the real explanation is they revamp the whole roster and put a lot of guys out there who may or may not be good.

And if some of them are not good, that's a problem for you. And you're going to lose games. And the schedule was really hard. And you just weren't going to repeat all the luck from last year. That's going to be the real explanation. Not Kevin O'Connell was a good coach last year and a bad coach this year. But already today, he was asked about not playing the players in preseason. And I went like, oh, I could see some weird storylines, some weird critiques coming if they struggle at the beginning of the season.

Like, does he need to be tougher on them? Maybe Mike Zimmer is the real coach that they need in this situation to turn it around. But I want to give the fan base a little more credit than that. I want to say that if they go to one in five, if they really struggle out of the the gate that we're not going to decide that he suddenly forgot how to coach we're more of going to say this is what happens when you take apart a lot of your roster which i think we all agreed was the right thing to do but we also knew this was possible and this is also what happens when you're some quarterbacks turn 35 years old. You know, I know we got spoiled over the last few years watching Tom Brady still be like the GOAT in his early 40s and Aaron Rodgers winning MVPs in his late 30s

and Drew Brees still leading the Saints to NFC Championship games when he's almost 40 years old. But those are like three of the greatest quarterbacks of all. Those are like three of the top six or seven quarterbacks in the history of the sport. You know, most of the time when quarterbacks hit that mid-30s range, they start looking like guys that were in their mid-30s look no further than a guy that was in the broadcast booth for vikings buccaneers yesterday matt ryan matt ryan was an mvp and took the falcons to the super bowl and like two years later he was falling apart, man. Like, so, you know, when that situation comes about,

there's going to be, you know, I think about the interception right before the half. Kurt's trying to fit it into a tight window to get it to K.J. Osborne, and you see the throw was a little bit off. You know, K.J. probably still should have caught it, but it's a little behind him. And then the safety comes in and makes a great play and snatches the ball from him, basically.

You know, I mean, that's kind of the thing that happens when you have a quarterback in his mid thirties. That's not super athletic. There's a good arm, but not a great arm. It just, it just starts to show the older you get. And then you've got other guys on this team that are a little bit older. You know, Harrison Smith is a ring of honor guy. The number 22 is going to be in the ring of honor, but he is a year older. Might see some signs of that later on this season, too. I mean, this is kind of what happens when you watch a team win 13 games last year.

So many, you know, they do something that has never been done before that we'll probably never see again. They won 13 games and they were probably more like a nine or 10 win team at best. And now we're seeing them a year older. And I don't know, man, it's, it's just, I know there are some fans there's, there's a pocket of Vikings fans that want to believe that they can just pick up right where they left off last year. And it's just, it's a hard thing. What they did last year was really, is a really hard thing to repeat. And now I think we're starting to see some signs that this could be a tough year. It could be a tough, it could be a difficult year.

It could, that could also be a week one overreaction. I don't know. But I mean, based on the question was like, what if they end up one in five, which is not totally unreasonable. I just think that there was a range of outcomes here when they decided to move on from a lot of proven players. And one of the outcomes was it goes really bad off the start. And that's exactly what happened in 2020. When you revamp the roster,

like there's data to show that the more players you bring back from year to year, the less volatility there is. And, you know, a team like Pittsburgh tends to make the playoffs every year, even when they're not that great. And one of the things is that Pittsburgh always keeps their guys. And so they've got the same coach. They've got a lot of the same players year in and year out. So a lot of times they can survive the ups and downs and be just good enough and make the playoffs or have a winning record even when they're not a good team.

But when you take away all those guys and you roll out, and I thought actually the corners were good yesterday, but just as an example, you're rolling out a whole new secondary outside of one guy i mean you know you're rolling in some new players on the offensive side you're you know there's just a lot of new bodies that haven't been here before and your point it's so funny this this group is either super insanely young and inexperienced or kind of super old. Like you mentioned about Harrison Smith. And I thought Brian Flores did a great job using Harrison Smith yesterday. I tweeted out his alignment, but it was like 18 snaps in the slot,

20 in the box, 20, you know, 20 at free safety. And I was like, that's the way Ed Donatello. So I thought he was good yesterday. But the point, just your point is just he's in his 30s he may not grade a 90 by PFF this year Dean Lowry's been around a while Harrison Phillips had a good game yesterday but he's been around a little while now I mean when you have some players who are on the older side then you know if they fall off a little if the younger guys don't step up you end up just having a tough season and I think that we'll look at more or at least i will look at more of that than i will say kevin o'connell is now a

bad coach after being a good coach i don't want to ride that roller coaster like i feel like one of the things that we're good at manny that you and i you and i like connect on like our souls connect on bad coaches you and i have x-ray vision. We know this. We could see it. When some coach doesn't know what he's doing, you'll know it, and I'll know it almost instantly. The Matt Patricias, the Joe Judges, guys who are weird lunatics who do psychotic mind games with their players,

who don't know how to manage a game, who don't know how to manage their locker room, stuff like that, kind of like weirdo bullies. That is not Kevin O'Connell. I think that even if it's not a good season, you just ride through that because when you have a coach who's competent, you have to stick with them.

They're not easy to find. If you just go overreacting, and plus I don't think the Wilfs are that way. I don't think the Wilfs would be like, oh, one bad year, just get out of here, Kevin. And I think that's a good thing. So I think it might happen that Vikings fans will be upset and point a lot of fingers. I think it would be a mistake to point too many fingers at Kevin O'Connell.

I think, you know, when you look at what they did last year, and I know it just two minutes ago, I just said, you know, what they did last year will never be done again. But I think there is something to what they were able to accomplish last year with a young coach coming in, had never been a head coach before, for them to be able to find ways to win games the way they did last year. I think part of that is coaching. I think part of that is coaching. I think part of that is being able to lead men and to keep an entire roster composed and poised enough to be able to find a way to win games like that.

It's just one of those things that it's just a hard thing to repeat. But when you do it, I think the head coach deserves a lot of credit for that. And I think before we hit the panic button out now, look, I mean, if things if things get really bad and they they're like three and 14. OK, I get it. I don't think that's going to happen. I think they're going to win enough games even after even if they get off to a really tough start. I think they're going to be able to win enough games to where we're going to see this guy knows what he's doing. If they decide to move on from Kirk Cousins, which it sounds like they're going to

let this season ride out, Kirk's going to walk, and then they're going to go in a different direction quarterback. Let's see to walk, and then they're going to go in a different direction, quarterback. Let's see if Kevin O'Connell can find a young quarterback in the draft, develop him, and go from there. Give yourself an opportunity to really build something and go into a new era of Vikings football. I would say let's give Kevin O'Connell a shot to do that before we just rush the judge and overanalyze. Wow, should he have called this play at that situation in that quarter of that game in week one? Yeah, I think from the reactionary podcast, of course, that will happen. But in the big picture, I think what you have here is a guy that you want coaching the team long term and partly to before we throw the guy overboard. And it's also week one, by the way, before we he's now he's now 13 and five as a head coach in the regular season, although 13 and six overall, it's starting to creep up on him.

But no, I mean mean i i'd like to see him pick a quarterback and then see how that goes i'd rather have him pick the quarterback than than others so um jason asks how did pff only give uh justin jefferson a 79.2 um we could make whole episodes of me explains how pff grades work for something like that it was because he didn't make any spectacular catches uh that you know when you're on the grading scale if you're making catches that are above average you're going to get graded well but if he had lost some guy in the end zone that would have bumped up his single game grade the single game grades are hard because he had a great game he was wide open like

they gave him credit for that i'm sure but he was all for one on contested catches if he had made one or two great like great wow oh my gosh catches it probably would have been a 90 so that's kind of how it works is like if you're just good all game which is great then you're gonna end up with a fairly solid grade uh but not like a 90 and there wasn't an opportunity there to do that so it's not like he played bad or anything like that and 79 is not bad 79 that's a great that's a yeah that's a great great uh nathan says uh one in five kirk will be on the hot seat not koc i mean that's the thing is like i don't want to go too far down this road of what if they're one in five and they're trading Kirk. Cause if we'll see when we get there, right. If like, if that happens, then that happens, then we'll talk about, is it time to trade Kirk? But I, there's a game on Thursday. Like I want

to see how this kind of plays out first. And then if it's Owen too, then it starts talking a little bit more and everything else. T Kubler says, Ivan Pace, first regular season game, week one, UDFA 75 PFF grade. I thought he was solid. I thought the whole defense mostly was solid, but was very impressed with Ivan Pace. I asked Kevin O'Connell about him today. And it's just, it seems like a guy who just really understands football extremely well. And then as a physical player and I've been very impressed impressed i think that's been one of the great um storylines speaking of which there were uh quite a few rookies who played this weekend including three quarterbacks who all struggled uh cj stroud bryce young and anthony

richardson i saw a chart that showed that richardson did not throw to his left the whole game i didn't think that his throwing was horrible, but he had to lead the team in rushing. That's asking a lot from a guy who you're like, oh, it's going to take like a couple of years for him to be a full, complete quarterback. Actually go do everything. Oh, actually against it's a team that should probably win that division

and is very good. So I thought it was an uphill battle for all of them. I mean, play the Ravens. Go play the Ravens, ZJ Stroud. Good luck to you. but my question for you manny is uh which one of those rookie quarterbacks turns it around or gets it together the quickest this season it's a tough question because all of them really struggled and none of them are on teams that are very good so it's hard to really kind of see like which one can really turn the corner.

I'm going to go with C.J. Stroud just because I think his physical makeup, he's really showed me a lot in the college football playoff. That game against Georgia against a really, I mean, clearly the best team in the country and one of the best defenses in the country, a defense that had several guys drafted in the first round over the last couple of years. I think that kind of showed me that he may be the most ready to step in right away.

He's got all the fundamentals. He can make all the throws. I know there's always questions about quarterbacks that come out of Ohio State, which I think is a little bit overblown. But I think he's always kind of seemed to me to be the guy that's going to be the most ready to step in right away and make an impact. Who's going to be the best out of all three of those guys? You know, that's going to be, that remains to be seen over the next few years.

But I feel like CJ is like the most ready. Bryce Young, man, I just I love a man, but I just worry how that body is going to hold up. If there's going to be if there's going to be times where he's going to get banged around a little bit and and miss just miss time because he's just because his body just won't hold up. So that's a question mark i have with him um you know and anthony ridgerton we'll see i mean i know jonathan taylor didn't play yesterday there's so much talk about his contract and he may not even be there ever because they may end up trading him um so i think that's going to be kind of a problem for for anthony ridgerton going forward so i'll go with cj shroud is the that's probably to be kind of a problem for Anthony Richardson going forward. So I'll go with C.J. Stroud.

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That's 50% off at grillmastersclub.com, your first box with the promo code purple that's 50 off at grillmastersclub.com your first box with the promo code purple i think they're all in tough here i think that each i mean look they drafted one two and four for a reason because their teams are bad uh but i think with bryce young the problem is there is nobody to catch the football i i mean, OK, so Adam Thielen got hurt already and that's a problem. And then who else? I mean, they really don't have any other legitimate weapons. Doesn't look like they have a very good offensive line either. It may be mediocre at best.

It's like, OK, I mean, what do you do here? The Texans, I think, have made a lot of improvements to their roster and made an improvement to their coaching staff. But do they have a running game you can lean on? Do they have an offensive line? They changed over a bunch of offensive linemen right before the season. Like, what? I mean, didn't they trade for, like, Kendrick Green from Pittsburgh?

And I think Titus Howard got hurt. Like, oh, my gosh. The thing that I think college quarterbacks struggled the most with was how fast the rush gets there. And so great. He has to come in with bad offensive linemen who you just picked up from other teams starting and face the Ravens and, you know, and so forth. I actually think this is going to be Anthony Richardson

because with Stroud and with Young, I think that those guys are quarterbacks who have very good physical gifts, very, very, very good, like playmaking ability. And Stroud, when he runs, can be fast. They both have good arms. Stroud's, I think, is fantastic. But Richardson is so gigantic. I mean, it's just absurd, really, like when you see him and how fast he is for that size

that I think that a quarterback like that can survive kind of in the way, like you think about Josh Allen, when he first came in with the bills, they were a horrible, horrible team and they beat the Vikings in that week three game in 2018. By the end of that season, I think they went six and 10 and he went maybe six and eight as a starter. But that dude was just like, they didn't have digs yet. They didn't have any receivers really. That dude was just kind of grinding out, like running for first downs,

making a big time throw here or there, leaping over Anthony Barr, like just finding a way. And Cam Newton was able to do that early in his career as well. Like some of the real physical kind of freak show players are able to even it out a little bit faster, even if he's more raw than the other. So I'm going to say it's him. I think his line is a little better. I think his receivers are a little better than the other group, even. And I think his coach kind of might know what he's doing. Shane Steichen came from Philadelphia. So an offensive system built for that guy so i'm gonna say that it's richardson but i think that

they're all in for seasons where they win six or fewer games it's just gonna be a really rough ride um okay i do i want to get to the other two things before we wrap up and not forget our our hot routes questions am i wrong to make this statement manny the bears giants and steelers should be panicking we're always saying hey it's just one week don't lose your mind not for them not for them they i don't think the vikings should be totally panicking i think the bears giants and steelers should be totally panicked i don't think you're crazy at all for thinking that they all look terrible um especially the Giants. The Giants were a joke last night.

Everything that they did was wrong. And part of that was Micah Parsons being a beast. But, man, they just – well, it's like the thing with the Giants too is they paid their mediocre quarterback a lot of money. And now they're, at least for the next couple of years, they're kind of stuck with him. Whereas Pittsburgh and the Bears, you know, they can still kind of say like, all right, well, like the Bears can say after this season, if Justin Fields is not the guy, then they can just pivot and go in a different direction. Especially, you know, they got a ton of draft capital from moving out of that one spot.

So Carolina could take Bryce Young and Pittsburgh's kind of in the same spot where if Kenny Pickett is not the guy, they can just kind of pivot and and go in a different direction the Giants paid their guy already when most people could probably look at them and say you probably shouldn't give this guy 40 million dollars a year you probably shouldn't do that uh but they did and now they're kind of stuck with them at least for a couple of years. But yeah, they all look bad. The Steelers, I love Mike Tomlin. And the way they finished the season last year gives me a little bit of hope that maybe they can turn it around. And the Niners are kind of a buzzsaw. But yeah, man, all three of them were just absolutely brutal. The Bears, you mentioned their inability to get a pass rush.

I mean, they just can't cover anybody. They can't stop anybody. If you put Justin Fields in a position where he has to throw the ball a lot because he's behind a lot because your defense can't stop anybody, they could be staring at another 3- 14 season if they're not careful. Yeah. I mean, I think just one by one, the bears, what makes it such a panic sort of situation is that they took a huge risk in my mind saying, no, we believe in Justin Fields enough.

And I've always thought of this kind of scenario where what if they go seven and ten and he's just okay then yeah it's like okay well are you you're not drafting super high so could you really just bail on him or do you got to just keep riding it out or what do you even do and then i mean because if they completely tank again while you're firing your coach and who knows even knows where you're going from there. But, OK, then I guess you could just draft another one and you go go on and maybe you've got, you know, Shadur Sanders or maybe you've got Caleb Williams or whoever you're getting. So then you could say, well, you know, we just wanted to see it play out. But if they end up mediocre and he's okay, but he's not horrendous, like then what are you doing? And a loss like that looked truly horrendous.

So maybe it does end up playing out that way. But when you put at least some of your chips in the Justin Fields basket by trading out of the number one pick, you kind of said we're tying ourselves to him at least to some extent. And you might end up looking completely foolish if it ends up playing out the way that it did. They should also be panicking because their defensive line pressured Jordan Love six times in a whole football game. Like normal is like 15. A lot is like 25. If it's a 2018 Bears against the Vikings, like 25 or 30. That's like a lot is like 25 if it's a 2018 bears against the vikings like 25 or 30 that's like a lot six i mean that like jordan love i'm sure in green bay they're throwing a huge celebration to

like okay well any quarterback in the league that gets pressured six times is going to sit back there and pick everybody apart so i think that the bears should be a little bit like, Oh no, our defense is that bad that we could get shredded that way. The giants. I agree with you though, of all the teams that should be freaking out. Totally. The giants are number one because the roster is bad. Like you brought back Daniel Jones, but you go get Darren Waller who's good, but I don't think he's anywhere as good as he was like two years ago. I think he kind of paid for what he was two years ago. And the offensive line is awful. Like what happened?

I mean, Dallas is great, but wow, that's the offensive line. They drafted a receiver. They brought in Paris Campbell. Like who cares? I mean, they just do not have a great group of weapons. And that defense wasn't that good last year. They didn't make some major huge overhaul major huge overhaul so there they could be awful they could win like five games i

mean it was really that bad i i don't know how like who is it that's turning it around it's not like oh well you've got this guy so you're gonna roll i think the quarterback is probably a product of what he has and what he has is not a good team the Steelers I would be less freaking out about because yeah the 49ers are that good and it's just like one game from a franchise that consistently figures it out but Cam Hayward got hurt in that game that's bad Patrick Peterson we all are Patrick Peterson respecters but it didn't look great in the first week and there could be a finally a year where they're just not that good and did you see cleveland like they're gonna have to play cleveland's defensive line i think their offensive coordinator doesn't know what he's doing it's a yeah you know it's i think it's a little bit a little bit panic time for uh for all of

those teams especially when they spent the whole offseason being like, Kenny Pickett's our guy. He might not be your guy. He might not. We'll see. We'll see. I mean, not that the box score is everything, but it's not like he really lit it up in the first year. He just had some good moments.

All right, last thing. The performances of the week. Tua Tagovailoa. Oh, my Lord. All right. Last thing, the performances of the week to a tug of Iowa. Oh my Lord. Him and Tyree kill. What just 400 something yards, 200 by Tyree kill insane, insane stuff. And I like to see it because everybody decided after two years that two was bad and they made the wrong pick and Justin Herbert was better and everything else. It's like, come on um you know so uh anyway him and micah parsons had the best week micah parsons just

shredded the giants i want historical comparisons for those two what what do you got for tua and for micah parsons so tua lining it up and i kind of it's funny because both of my choices for them were opening day week one performances the one with Tua and just spare with me here viewers and listeners it kind of I kind of got remember that remember the opening day that Peyton Manning had with the Broncos in 2013 where he just like obliterated the Ravens defense and this was the Ravens that won the Super Bowl the year before uh but it was their first year without Ray Lewis so things were kind of starting to turn a little bit for the Ravens and where they were going in a different direction uh just from like a culture standpoint um and Peyton just he just obliterated

them he threw i think he threw seven touchdown passes at like over 400 yards um that's kind of the vibe i got from tua and uh and tyreek hill just lighting up the scoreboard um yesterday i mean it was just unbelievable the plays that ty Tyreek made, the throws that Tua made. I mean, Tua's good, man. And the Dolphins, watch out. Watch out. Seriously. Watch out. That

game, just watching some of the highlights from that game, that game had kind of a playoff vibe to it. Because you got two young, really good quarterbacks, two high-powered offenses just kind of going playoff vibe to it because you got two uh young really good quarterbacks two high powered offenses just kind of going back and forth um that was a lot of fun uh for Micah Parsons I thought about I thought about Khalil Mack opening day now it's a little different for Khalil Mack because they end up losing the game um they end up blowing a big lead to the Packers but

you remember that first half Khalil Mack had against the Packers on opening night? Just, I mean, he was all over the place. You saw him on the field making plays all the time. And it's kind of the same thing with Micah Parsons yesterday. He just seemed to be everywhere on the field making an impact and really impacting everybody else on his defense behind him as well, just making a huge impact.

So those are the two that I have for that where it's just like, wow. Wow. I like that. So you took it a little bit different direction than I was thinking myself. Like you took it as week one performances where somebody came out and blew people away. I was thinking as more of historical comparisons of who do these players remind you of. So I was so with Micah Parsons, I was thinking of like Derek Thomas, somebody who is just so lightning quick and so dominant that I have not seen anybody stop him.

Like the Vikings played him. He annihilated them. The same thing was with derrick thomas it was just that quickness and that strength there's no answer for that and miles garrett was the same way yesterday against cincinnati there's just no answer and i'm just so incredibly impressed every time i watch him because you see teams trying to like send two guys at him keeping the tight end and keeping the running back in. And he'll rush all sorts of different places. His strength is quickness, his myriad of moves.

Like the guy just cannot be stopped. So he kind of reminds me of that. Like the time that what did Derek Thomas get eight sacks in a game against, I think Seattle. So same, same kind of deal. But Khalil Mack is a great comp for a few years. No one could stop Khalil Mack and I was trying to think of who a quarterback that reminds me of of Tua and I came to like Chad

Pennington because I thought Chad Pennington was never the most gifted guy he wasn't like super well he was pretty tall but he wasn't like unbelievably athletic didn't have this mega arm but Pennington could just stand and deliver. Like he was accurate and he could get the ball to his playmakers. And the NFL was a little different then. But like if Chad Pennington was playing today, I feel like he'd be playing like Tua because he's got that same kind of skillset.

And there was always this, like is Pennington any good because he doesn't have the same sort of like elite athleticism or arm strength and kind of got questioned all the time and i feel like two has kind of gone through the same thing and toughness too man like it's just you just there's just like this they have this mental toughness and and a physical toughness too i mean i know both of them uh you know pennington had his share of injuries arm injuries especially but, but he just kept going. And the way he – the one really good year he had with the Dolphins, ironically,

with Tony Sperano, rest in peace, where he kind of, you know, he kind of revitalized his career a little bit. He had left the Jets and people thought it was kind of over for him. And then he had that one really nice year with the Dolphins and kind of revitalized himself. And T he had that one really nice year with the Dolphins and kind of revitalized himself. And Tua's kind of the same thing, man. He's been dealing with some injuries and people questioning, you know, can he hold up for a whole season? And I'm hoping Tua can stay healthy, man.

I'm really hoping he can stay healthy because before he got hurt last year, he was playing great. He looked fantastic. And I'd be curious to see what the Dolphins look like as a team with Tua playing a full 17-game schedule. I kind of chuckled a little bit at the whole idea that he was going to learn karate or something and learn how to fall. I was like, I don't know if it works that way when someone just comes and kills you. But I hope that's the case.

I hope that as well. Adrian says to us, Drew Brees 2.0. And, you know, I mean, yesterday, that's not ridiculous. There is the same thing is that that they have is this sort of ability to be undersized and find windows to throw to. And they also have an offensive coordinator who seems to be dialing up just great opportunities with these weapons, and that's similar.

And there's a little bit of not like mobility, but pocket mobility. So Tua made this throw on the run where he kind of drifted into a space and then turned his hips and let it fly to Tyreek Hill. And it was a very accurate throw. And I feel like Drew Brees was the same way where he would have this in the pocket mobility. It wasn't a runner, but he would avoid rushes and things like that and find space to throw, even though he was undersized. So I think, I mean, it feels a little ridiculous to call him drew brees right now but the way that he played yesterday certainly looked like him yeah well and let's let's remember

too i mean drew brees his first couple years in the nfl he was not exactly lighting it up yet it wasn't until after the chargers drafted philip rivers or drafted eli manning and then traded him for Philip Rivers. Then everything really started to come together for Drew Brees. And then he eventually moved on to New Orleans and really found his calling with the Saints and became the Hall of Fame quarterback that he is. So, you know, I mean, I don't think it's far-fetched to make that comparison. I mean, if Tua stays healthy, he's on a trajectory to be one of the really great quarterbacks of all time i mean it's why he was drafted high is that teams around the league

thought that he could be one of the really really great quarterbacks it's just a matter from staying healthy and they've got an offensive system there that that fits him pretty well he's got weapons to throw to not just with tyree hill but jaylen wattle as well so if he i think the biggest thing for him is just staying healthy if he can do that then i think the sky's the limit for him yeah i think so too i i mean i think that if you're going to be kind of a system-ish quarterback it sure looks like a good system to be in with the receivers that they have and he could kind of just do the job so but i i forgot last year that he averaged almost nine yards of pass attempt isn't that crazy um that that that is that is crazy and then he's

off to the start uh one last question from jordan are we sure sean payton is a great coach i'm not convinced well certainly vikings fans don't ever like when you say anything nice about Sean Payton that's and I get it. And that's right. But I think Sean Payton was a great coach. And when Drew Brees showed up there, no one knew if he could still really play or if he could play really at all. He'd had that one good year in San Diego and that was it. But the offenses that that guy put on the field around drew breeze the the system he designed for drew breezes strengths i don't know if he could do it in denver oh for one so far but i know that you can't really say about his career like oh he wasn't that good or whatever in new orleans i i think you'd more say like he was a perfect synergy with which may be the same thing with

mcdaniel and with tua where if you find perfect synergy with the quarterback and the head coach there's just something there that you can't replace yeah and it's also entirely possible that you know i i had i thought sean payton going into denver could really help russell wilson it's also entirely possible i mean look russell wilson's 34 years old. You know, just 20 minutes ago, I was just talking about most quarterbacks, when they get to be then into the mid-30s, it's over. Might be over for Russell Wilson. It just, it might be.

I mean, he was great at one point with Seattle for a handful of years, but at this stage of his career, just might be done you know all right well yeah it might be yeah it might be it didn't look great and against the raiders that maybe that's a panic maybe that's a panic we'll see how that plays out uh we'll let ken walk off here with an injury report from aaron rogers bilateral leg weakness, it was the obvious answer for all twins fans. Well, yeah. So Manny,

this was great. As always, you are going to do every Monday and Thursday, except for this Thursday, because the Vikings play a football game and I will be in Philadelphia. And then I assume we're going to be live or at least recording a podcast super late at night in Philadelphia somewhere. I'm flying out there on Wednesday.

So I'll try to be live on Wednesday night from my hotel in Philadelphia. So look forward to that. Jeremiah Searles on the channel Tuesday morning, left guard as always. So great to talk with you, Manny's a really fun show and we will see you all very, very soon. Football.