Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Aaron Rodgers is officially NOT a Viking (Part 2)

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

Matthew Coller talks about Aaron Rodgers signing with the Steelers and what the backup plan for JJ McCarthy is now... plus answering Vikings fan questions.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Aaron says, taking out Flores, McCown and Durante Jones, who would be the next guy to get hired as a head coach? Um, that I, that I don't know. I mean, because Durante Jones would have been my pick. So you already took several of the good options there and Josh McCown is another one. I mean, the most underrated guy on the Vikings coaching staff is very clear to me. That is Keenan McCardell.

I don't think Keenan is getting jobs. I don't really know why that he, someone has not hired him as an offensive coordinator because he has been incredible for these wide receivers. And we've seen guys emerge. We've seen guys get better and Justin Jefferson loves having Keenan McCardell as his coach. He's been a major part of this operation.

He was the only guy that wasn't part of KOC's, uh, original hires that he was actually hired by Mike Zimmer and KOC kept him on because Justin Jefferson said, Hey, I'm going to need a favor. I need you to keep my guy. And of course, if Jefferson wants it, then you should do it. Aside from that, that I don't really know. I don't know if Chris Cooper has aspirations to try to be a head coach. Matt Daniels has not been allowed to cook,

nor has he cooked so much with the special teams. They've been very safe on special teams. A lot of fair catches. Doesn't seem like they, like KOC really wants a lot of creativity. Maybe that'll be forced for this year. Matt Daniels has leadership capabilities and is very good at developing players behind the scenes. When we talk about special teams coaches,

there's so much more to that role. He's also been really vital. He is their turnover coach and he's responsible for focusing on how they're going to take the ball away from the other team where they've been really good at that. So there's certain, you know, it's, this is crazy. It's the NFL, but there's technical stuff. There's film stuff that they go over every single week and he's a big part of that. Maybe if you have a great year, then everybody starts to get attention, but special teams coaches just do not get

a whole lot of run. I think Durante Jones will be a defensive coordinator very soon. I think Josh McCown will be an offensive coordinator very soon. And then we'd have to see from there. Henry Jones says, "'Hard to say, more worried when there is zero worries

to begin with.' Okay, about Rogers. Then again, Aaron will have a feel for this year's Vikings. He can impact, uh, in part on a better team than the jets. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah. That he had since he played them last year, he now has a better feel for Brian Flores defense. But of course, Brian Flores is going to change his defense this year, as we heard from Harrison Smith,

or at least to some extent with the new personnel. So it will be a little bit different, but that's a fair enough point. My thing with Rogers is just that he still has arm talent. And even when you're playing like a Will Levis or something, if you go into a game and the other quarterback can make some crazy throws, you never really know because it's an any given Sunday type of situation. And with Mason Rudolph, he doesn't have that. He doesn't have that. Whoa. If he can, he can just roast you at any time or whatever. I don't think he has that as more of a game manager type that

Rogers could still potentially find it. And who knows? I mean, there's always a world like we just never know there's always a world where Rogers finds his happy place in Pittsburgh. If you've ever been it's a really nice city and maybe there's not the type of media pressure is there, maybe it's not an election year so that's a safer space for him I don't know, but he could always go into a game and rip a couple throws down the field and make you pay because he is one of the best quarterbacks ever. So I think you should be more concerned, but not terribly concerned based on the way he played last year. I shot you 99. What's up with the creepy dark lighting? It's not supposed to

be creepy. It's supposed to be that my camera was kind of freaking out a little bit with the flags, with all the colors. So the suggestion to me was to make it a little darker, get a little more light on my face so the camera would focus on my face. But if you AV club people have any suggestions for me, anytime, I am always

worth Or I'm always open. I should say I'm always open to any suggestions from the audio video people Dusty says Mike Tomlin is bar none one of the best coaches to ever do it He's consistently over performed his roster talent Just had one quarterback since, or just, uh, yeah, just had a quarterback since Big Ben. I mean, look, I think from our perspective here is we look at Mike Tomlin and go, Hey, that's a good job. Like you've done a good job.

You make the playoffs with these quarterbacks since Big Ben. That's good to even be in the postseason. Most teams would have been floundering. They would have collapsed even with good defensive players. But you go through, all right, Hayward is a star and they've had a couple other guys on defense, but it's not like they've had 85 bears. But he has found a way to grind out victories despite not having a lot of talent at the same time hasn't had the best offensive coordinator selections. I think his offensive coordinator picks Matt Canada was a bad one. Now Arthur Smith, that's a blind spot for him too. And if you're

going to bring in these guys who are very lacking in innovation as your offensive coordinators, you're kind of going to get what you pay for there. And it's almost like you're going to bring in these guys who are very lacking in innovation as your offensive coordinators, you're kind of going to get what you pay for there. And it's almost like he hasn't wanted to that he's wanted to focus on running the ball, playing it safe that since Big Ben left, they have not wanted to have an aggressive modern type of offense. And you end up with trying to win games 17 to 14, that can work in the regular season.

It just doesn't really work in the playoffs and they didn't change offensive coordinators. So are you gonna see an attempt at the same type of offense where it's run a lot, then run four verticals and try to hit a deep shot? Is that how Arthur Smith or check down to a running back? Is that how Arthur Smith or check down to a running back? Is that how Arthur Smith is going to want to play this? So there's, I think very reasonable criticism for, uh,

Mike Tomlin. And I know from following some people in Pittsburgh that there are Pittsburgh analysts and reporters who have been very critical of them in the same way that we were here with Mike Zimmer, where Mike Zimmer was a good coach. And every year you went into a season saying, well, Mike Zimmer is going to give you a chance. You're going to be close to the playoffs or in the playoffs because Mike Zimmer

is your coach. And even the years where they had bad defenses, they were still a game or two away from being in the playoffs. I think there was a win they needed against Chicago in 2020, even their worst year under Zimmer, where if you get that win on the last drive or something, then maybe you would have had a chance to go to the postseason. So they were always in that hunt, but eventually when it's year after year after year, we all get bored and we all are saying the same thing. And that's what they're saying in Pittsburgh, which is just, I don't see a way out of this. How can you ever really truly compete?

And this is their answer. I don't think it's a good answer, but it's probably the best answer they had. I mean, there wasn't a quarterback to draft this year unless Tyler Shuck ends up becoming great or I guess Chider Sanders ends up becoming great. I mean, then I guess there'll be some egg on their face if somebody does, but this was not a good quarterback class. And when you make the playoffs and you're drafting late, what else are you supposed to do? Who, what quarterbacks,

what great quarterbacks aside from weird stuff like Jalen hurts or Lamar Jackson, where the league hadn't figured out running was important yet. But now recently we've seen running quarterbacks go at the top mobile guys go at the top. Who are you getting at the 24th pick or something wherever Pittsburgh was? Did the Vikings have the 24th pick whoever was whoever is you know, wherever they were. It's just a hard thing to do. So eventually it gets very stale and all of you who follow the Minnesota wild, you know, wherever they were, it's just a hard thing to do. So eventually it gets very stale. And all of you who follow the Minnesota Wild, you know this,

that as much as you like the Wild in the regular season, and you like going to games and everything else, when your team goes into playoffs year after year after year and disappoints you in the first round, it gets stale. And you start looking for other options. Is there a different coach who can get you there? Is there a trade that can get you there? Is there a trade that can get you there

or a move that you need to make? That was kind of the Bruce Boudreau thing, right? We all know Bruce Boudreau is a great hockey coach, but if you have the same results several years in a row, you're probably gonna get canned or you have to move on. And so this is their last kind of panic thing. Rob says, folks underselling Sam Howell based on bad stats. He had no chance in Washington behind that O line sacked 68 times.

He ran himself out of trouble another 60 times. You cannot talk me into a guy being sacked 60 something times being just on the offensive line. It's not all quarterbacks will tell you that sacks are at least in a very high percentage of quarterback stat. I watched a number of those games that year and what I thought of Sam Howell was he had his moments. He had moments where he played really well,

but he's not a quarterback that is, you're going to start a full season and make the playoffs and win as a contender. It's just, that's just a fact of the matter. I mean, that's just the, the physical reality of Sam Howell, not a big enough guy, does not have the arm, the accuracy playmaking, any of those things to be a quarterback that's going to take. It's not like a Sam Darnold situation. It would have to be,

it would actually have to be like a case Kenan where miracles would have to happen for you to be a seriously contending have to be like a case Keenum where miracles would have to happen for you to be a seriously contending team with somebody like that. And that was a very unique year. Number one in rushing, number one in passing defense, number one in red zone defense, third down defense, easy schedule. And every single pop fly that case Keenum threw in the air fell into the hands of Adam Thielen or Stefan Diggs. It would have to be like that kind of year to really compete with someone like Sam Howell.

Uh, there are just, when you're talking about a guy who's drafted in what, the fifth or sixth round, there's just realities to that. He's a backup quarterback and not much more. And that still means that you're a very good quarterback in the grand scheme of things. And if JJ McCarthy got hurt for a couple of weeks, I think Sam Howell could come in and win. I've never been against this move, by the way.

It's just anytime we talk about it, it's like, I'm not gonna say that it's fine if the JJ McCarthy goes down and we're underselling Sam Howell, no way. I mean, no way. If we're not gonna talk a lot about the backup quarterback, because as you guys know, we don't talk about screwed on the show. And if JJ McCarthy goes down, you're screwed. Jar blonde says I was

so bummed when Tomlin's I think you mean Tomlin left Minnesota. I was hoping that they would fire children's and make him the coach. That's one of those. You know how we do that? Like, hey, if you drafted this guy or you kept this coach, definitely got to wonder what would have happened if they had had Mike Tomlin as the coach, but maybe during that era. I mean, how long would he have lasted in that era? I mean, how long would he have lasted in that era? Was anybody in the Leslie Frazier era, just the rosters they had,

the players, the quarterback situation, was anybody succeeding? Would Mike Tomlin have made it? Maybe he could have gotten a couple of those seasons out of this team that he has had in Pittsburgh and he could have hung around long enough to get a quarterback and go forward with a rebuild. But I just, uh, think he probably would have run into same problems that Leslie Frazier ran into and ended up out of a job anyway, and it would have gone in the same thing.

So, uh, let's see. Uh, Marley says, uh, Steelers will have to luck themselves into a top 10 pick in order to finally get an actual shot at a real quarterback and by luck I mean suck and be heavily injured. Yeah, well that in a lot of ways it's actually the mistake that they probably made this year was not just firing Mike Tomlin. Everyone would have said, look, it's one of the great careers for coaches. He's won a million games. It's hard to be with one franchise forever, but eventually all things come to an end. And you know how the Texans, when it was time to go make sure they got a quarterback, who did they hire? Like Lovey Smith and, and even Washington when they were going to the bottom to try to get eventually Jayden Daniels, Ron Rivera, like there's always these coaches out there that are never going to elevate you, but they kind of

know how to be in the pros. So you bring them in Jeff Fisher with the Rams and you get a top draft pick, but you don't completely fall apart as a franchise. That's kind of what Pittsburgh needed. Well, I mean, Gerard Mayo was supposed to be the C for the Patriots last year, but he kind of was a disaster. What they're always looking for is in that situation, a transition coach that you can easily fire and then move on to the real coach that you want. And Pittsburgh probably should have done that.

They probably should have traded Cam Hayward and they should have not traded for DK Metcalf and really tried to make a run at getting a quarterback next year. But the curse of ownerships that never are okay with resetting or rebuilding, and the Vikings have gotten away with this, they have because really of Kirk's injury,

they've gotten away with this and the fact that they were willing to not extend Kirk. They were after 2022, the fact that they were willing to move on from a lot of their older expensive players and give the Wolf's credit for that. They had a reset, not a rebuild, but for a while there, I thought it was a reasonable criticism for them, especially from 2019 to 2020 to say, Hey, tear this thing down guys. Stop trying to scratch and claw your way to eight wins. And that's really where Pittsburgh is at. And this feels sad.

It feels desperate and maybe we'll all be wrong because football is really hard to project, but it just has all written all over a six and 11 season where Tomlin, as you said, gets fired or they're the most stuck. Or even if they go eight, nine, and he keeps his job, they're just the most stuck franchise. How many games does Pittsburgh have to win to walk away from this season and say, Hey, that Rogers thing we did, that was a great idea. Is it 12 to justify this?

It's probably 12 to justify this because if you win 12, then you seriously competed for a Superbowl. But if they win, maybe it's 11, but if you win nine, if you win 10, it's pretty good. And you could say you had a fun season. But then if you get knocked out, if you're a 10 win team and you get knocked out in the first round, was it really worth it rather than resetting and trying to set up your franchise for the next quarterback, which I don't feel like they've done at all. I don't feel like they've done anything to set up their next quarterback.

Uh, dusty you're on fire tonight. Anthony Richardson, 2027 KOC rehab candidate. You know, Anthony Richardson, the problem with Anthony Richardson is when you have enough hype to be drafted, was it number four overall number three overall four, if you have enough hype coming out of college to be drafted number four overall, you have to go, you have to go. You have to go. You can't stay in college when you're going to be the top draft pick.

No way. Because then if you get hurt, if you have like a Marshawn Latimore thing, I mean, you're just throwing down millions and millions, millions of dollars down the drain, you've got to do it. Anthony Richardson needed two or three more years in college. We've seen, I mean, Jaden Daniels is a great example. That guy had 16 touchdowns, like three years into his college career for Arizona State. It took him a long time to develop as a passer. And then once he got there, he was great. You know, kind of the same with Lamar, like he played a lot of college football.

And then once he got there as a passer, he's been amazing as a thrower over the last few years. But it took Lamar time. It took Jalen Hurts time. It took Josh Allen time. Any of these types of quarterbacks that are more athlete than pure passer, it usually takes years and they have to play. They can't be rehabbing an injury time and time and time again and then suddenly learn how to throw while you're on the shelf not throwing. And for the Indianapolis Colts their huge mistake was and nobody ever wants to do this what you have to do is you have to draft a guy like Anthony Richardson and then not play him and you have to sit a guy like Anthony Richardson and then not play him. And you have to sit for two years

to make sure he doesn't get hurt and that he can develop truly behind the scenes. And to your point, if you were the Vikings, if the Indianapolis Colts said, we are completely done with Anthony Richardson, we're just gonna move on. Daniel Jones is our guy. Do you want him for a fifth round pick?

You say, absolutely yes. And and you say you are not playing you're not gonna be even our backup quarterback You're not playing for a year and then you develop him behind the scenes and maybe eventually trade him or something or you've got a backup quarterback, but I mean, yeah, you do something like that I think what Anthony needs really is the same thing that Gino Smith had or that Sam Darnold had. He just needs years as a backup and way back in the day they used to do this. They used to have, I mean we're going way back but they used to have somebody be a backup. A Steve Young ends up as a backup for the 49ers and they learn how to play the game and look young quarterbacks as we're going to see from JJ McCarthy are more ready than they've ever been but that doesn't mean everybody and it certainly doesn't mean Richardson's I honestly feel bad for him because I think he was mishandled from the start.

He may have always been a bust. I have no idea but I think he was mishandled from the very beginning when he was thrown into the fire, not having enough experience to be ready. He played one season at Florida. That's very hard to play one season and be 20, 21 years old and not be a refined passer and then, oh yeah, go run this NFL offense and win football games for us. Dwayne says really is the best news we could get. Maybe our defense can send him packing with another busted collarbone on his way to retirement I do not wish any injuries on

Aaron Rodgers, but I Do think that as you get a quarterback of his age, there's no guarantee that he's playing against the Vikings by week four because and T that he's playing against the Vikings by week four, because he didn't look to me like he was really an NFL shape last year. A lot of the times I commented on how like, Hey, go Google a picture of Aaron Rogers from 2012 or 14, see what he looks like compared to right now. And the answer is, he looked a lot more strong jacked. And now, I mean, especially I will give credit to the NFL and their Twitter account and whoever The answer is he looked a lot more strong, jacked. And now, I mean, especially,

I will give credit to the NFL and their Twitter account and whoever else puts out. When they do their Photoshop, it's often of this picture that makes Aaron Rodgers look like he's about 49 years old. And being about the same age as Aaron Rodgers myself, couple years out, it kind of makes me like, okay, well, I look better than Aaron Rodgers

I haven't been doing any darkness retreats or eating whatever he's eating these days So maybe that's good for me But there there's no guarantee that it even ends up getting there based on the frailty of Aaron Rodgers or at least how he looks and then the amount that he took sacks last year should be really concerning to them. Rob says I always ask the question why does KOC or Flores like the player go back and check him out try to see what they saw I thought Darnold was terrible until I went back and rewatched him.

I don't think there's any connection or correlation between Sam Howell and Sam Darnold I really don't. Sam Darnold was a guy that KOC absolutely banged the drum for. That's, I don't think that was the case with Sam Howell. I think that that was the best possible thing that they could find for a backup quarterback. I think he really liked Sam Darnold, but I also think Sam Darnold really played great in Carolina at times in 2022 and played really,

really well in San Francisco when he got a chance. But Sam Howell has never played well in the NFL outside of one stretch in the middle of a season. The physical talent is just nowhere close though. That's it's just apples to oranges. It's not the same thing. It's a backup who can survive. Let's also remember when you're making this point that Kevin O'Connell had Nick Mullins as his backup quarterback over multiple seasons. And yes, he liked Nick Mullins as a guy, but I don't think he ever wanted Nick Mullins to actually play. So I don't think that's a really great way to judge it. I think you're being optimistic about Sam Howell.

I'm just not thinking about Sam Howell. And I, and if, uh, JJ McCarthy were to get hurt in training camp or something or in pre-season, who knows how much he'll play, uh, then you're looking for other quarterbacks to bring in who could try to get you to the playoffs and probably not Sam Howell. I'd be very surprised. I mean, we're not even sure right now if Sam Howell is going to be the backup. He's going to have to earn that because and it's only OTAs. It just hasn't looked like, oh yeah, you'll be fine if your quarterback gets hurt.

That's why they wanted Daniel Jones to be the backup and offered him a lot of money to be the backup. So they wouldn't have somebody like this. But again, if, if he has to play a few games, I think you could win a few games. Jarblon, does Daniel Jones winning the job and potentially getting more starts have any effect on compensatory draft picks? No, no, it doesn't work that way. No, it's it's entirely contract. Yep, it's entirely the contract.

So they they'll they'll get one. I don't know what it's going to be. They will get one for Daniel Jones leaving. And that, that makes it a pretty clever move for Kevin O'Connell and quasi-adapthal Mensa to bring in Daniel Jones, convince him to kind of come to the, uh, resort that is Kevin O'Connell coaching and be here for a couple of weeks. And then you end up getting something for it.. So I mean, Hey, that's a, that's a nice little move there. So let's see. Okay. This is one you're going to have to let go Mitchell to hell with the Steelers. The refs help them win enough for their Superbowl wins. Yeah, you know, I hope Mitchell that you're

referring to against the Vikings, the controversial call in the Super Bowl against the Steelers where I think it was, was it a fumble that was not called a fumble in that Super Bowl? But even if you're referring to the Super Bowl against the Seattle Seahawks, I've had a little bit of a grudge against that, but I don't know that, I don't know that's quite fair for a great organization. So, how many Football is a Numbers game have been sold? That is my book.

Thank you for asking. I don't know. I don't have the exact numbers, but since you asked, I figured I'd put it on the screen. It's over there next to me. Football is a Numbers game. Go to Amazon Amazon check it out Dusty Jonathan Bullard is still on the market anyone else feel like we should bring him back

I think what they would like to do is See what it looks like with these younger guys Now I liked what Jonathan Bullard brought to the table and they certainly played him a lot and I don't see any reason not to Have someone like Jonathan Bullard come back and play now. It's very possible that Jonathan Bullard thinks that Hey, I'm just not gonna get in the game, you know And after you play six hundred seven hundred snaps for a team or whatever it was last year was a lot of snaps You're probably looking for that somewhere else rather than saying, Oh, I'm going to come back and then rotate with J van Hargrave.

Hargrave is going to play 600. Alan's going to play 600. Harrison Phillips is going to play 600. Where am I? I'm getting 200 as a rotational run stuffer. So he might look for other opportunities. Somebody like that might even join a bad team, knowing that he gets to play more and gives himself a chance at one more contract next year. Because if you play a lot, then you've got a shot at that position. But I liked Bullard. I think he was a very intelligent guy. I think he

really understood blocking schemes and how to get leverage on offensive linemen. Very strong, just had no real ability to rush the passer. But they're looking now to the future here. You want Levi Drake Rodriguez in the game. You want Jaylen Redmond. You want to find out through this training camp, who's going to go forward on this defensive line, because you're only talking about a couple of years for Hargrave and Allen and then who knows, but you're, you can develop these players. If you get them to be pretty solid, like a Levi Drake Rodriguez,

then you're talking about a very deep defensive line. There's a clear ceiling with Jonathan Bullard that he's just going to be one of those run stuff or types. Ah, the Paul Farrington show. I hope it's a good show, Paul, because I wonder if this Steelers organization, uh, saying this is the time to get a done. Oh, to get it done, Mike, if you can't, you're done. One last ride with this old TJ watt roster. Yeah.

No, Paul, I think that that's exactly what it is. I think that's exactly what it is. It's you got to do it this time or it's over for Mike Tomlin. I would think, and I know we got an extension, but who knows how long that extension was. You gotta do it this time or it's over for Mike Tomlin. I would think and I know we got an extension, but who knows how long that extension was and the pressure is very much on the Pittsburgh Steelers to win and then otherwise they're going to have to tear it down. You make a good point about TJ Watt.

This goes for Cam Hayward. They have older players on this team. DK Metcalf, Robert Woods. These are not young guys. This is a veteran team with a young, what running back a young right tackle. Like they don't have young foundational pieces. They're built to win. So they're in a position where they just kind of have to do it.

There's no other choice. And if Tomlin can't win this year more than just that token playoff game where they get knocked out easily in the first round, then it probably will be it for him. And I guess we'll always wonder was it Tomlin's fault that he didn't hire a better offensive coordinator or was it actually their general manager for not finding another quarterback? I mean, they went with Kenny Pickett for years, many multiple years of Kenny Pickett who clearly did not have it.

And then think about this too. If you were maybe Sam Darnold last year, did you get a phone call from Pittsburgh? If you're, well how about even this year, by the way, why did I say last year? How about this year? Why would Pittsburgh not be in on the same Sam Darnold thing this year? You would have thought they would have been all in. Is not be in on the Sam Darnold thing this year? You would have thought they would have been all in. Is this a better idea than Sam Darnold? So everybody's responsible there, their coach, their general manager, and now they're all in.

So that game may be a major pressure point for the Pittsburgh Steelers, that game in Berlin, no, not Berlin, in Dublin Dublin and then for the Vikings, who knows like where they stand through the first couple of weeks if it's going to be a pressure point for them as well. Zoomer Kev says, what is JJ McCarthy in terms of in his shiftyness and sack avoidance or is, oh I see, is his shiftyness and sack avoidance or is oh I see is his shiftyness and sack avoidance his theoretical cheat code maybe there's a Russell Wilson type player so I think with JJ McCarthy I don't think it's a cheat code for him because I don't think it's good enough to be like that when I look look at, when I think cheat code, I think Josh Allen cannot

be sacked. It's actually insane how rarely Josh Allen is sacked. And Lamar Jackson, that, when you're talking about that shiftiness of somebody, all right, they come free on a blitz and whoop, he's right. He's out running and he's making plays and stuff like that. Even a Patrick Mahomes is so strong and has such a strong arm that somebody wins free or doesn't get blocked or whatever without even being remotely connected to the ground in the right way. He can get that ball out. I don't think that that's JJ McCarthy, but what I do think about McCarthy is that he reaches the baseline of that stuff, that he is a very good athlete.

I think he's a natural athlete. He grew up playing other sports. People have brought up his background playing hockey and you see that there's a very natural athleticism about JJ McCarthy that stands out, but I might categorize it as more in the ballpark of Justin Herbert. And I've kind of been thinking about him through that lens of Justin Herbert, where sometimes when Herbert was first coming out, he was criticized for what? Not enough touch on the football. It's got a very, very strong arm. I think Herbert's is maybe a little bit stronger, but it's, it's a very strong arm

can make all the throws and is a playmaker and can run with the football and can throw off platform, but not in the same ways as the best scrambling quarterbacks. So when McCarthy gets a free runner and has to get out, I mean, Darnold did this last year on several occasions, has to get out, keep his eyes downfield, Throw off balance. I mean he can definitely do that. He can definitely do that Can he do it to a point where we're talking about? Wow, that's his cheat code No, I don't think so and I'm not sure I would look at him like a Russell Wilson because when I think of Wilson I think of I think of a cheat code in it at his best which is Running all over the place and then finding someone

30, 40 yards down the field. And I think Wilson at his best had an elite arm just letting it go. I don't think you want JJ McCarthy to play that way. And Wilson had to be limited a little bit. Do you guys remember this going back, but you remember the let Russ cook. The let Russ cook thing was really based on the idea that Wilson was very efficient, but that Pete Carroll was a dinosaur and wasn't passing enough. Well, it turned out that Pete Carroll was not a dinosaur. Pete Carroll knew ball, which was that Russell Wilson has limitations because of his size standing in the pocket and trying to go through reads and see the middle of the field is very hard for him. So they love to do play actions, get him deep drops,

get him an opportunity to move and see down the field and also he could drop it in the bucket with anybody. They were playing to his strengths by being a run first team. I think with JJ McCarthy what at his best I again sort of think of Herbert and I know that Jim Harbaugh has Herbert doing this sort of run and play action and kind of thing and limiting his mistakes. But Herbert in the previous iteration with Brandon Staley, who got a lot of things wrong, but this might've been right, which was to have him in the shotgun and he's dissecting a lot with his brain

and he's making throws into tight windows from the pocket with occasional playmaking, pushing the ball downfield. Those are thin making smart decisions. Like look at the game that Justin Herbert played against the Vikings. There was a lot of very smart decisions by Herbert underneath stuff, 18 catches for Keenan Allen. Like I think of that diagnosing things quickly and then having the arm talent to fit into windows is how I look at JJ McCarthy. I don't think he has a cheat code. I don't think that there's one skill that he has that's a cheat code. And I made it's funny because I made a Dak Prescott comparison. And then some people were like, no way he's better than Dak Prescott, which is crazy to me because Dak Prescott led numerous offenses that were at the top of the NFL. But the reason that I was making that comparison is I think he's got

definitely the arm enough to make plays and early Dak Prescott could run for 350 yards and some touchdowns, which I think McCarthy can do. But really it was about, this is a guy who's going to be a pocket quarterback who is going to make enough plays on the move on the run. If you remember that Dak Prescott throw where he was rolling to his right and whipped it down the sideline, like he's good at that, making that throw down the sideline. And it's mostly though,

for him about making the right decisions. He can be inconsistent with his accuracy from time to time, but it's a lot of make decisions, accurate throws and be a leader of your team. And I think that he checks all those boxes. Now maybe Herbert is not quite the leader that you want him to be. I don't know. I don't cover him, but it doesn't seem like there's that sort of breathe fire type element to him that maybe JJ McCarthy has,

but that's kind of in the ballpark of where I've been thinking about what JJ McCarthy can be. Because if you start setting the bar higher than it's like, it's like calling a young basketball player, you know, always the next LeBron or like what they've done to Anthony Edwards with, Oh no, he's Michael Jordan. Like that's unfair. That's a little unfair. Let's work our way there. And then when he's on his fifth championship, then we can make that comparison or something. But for me, that caliber of quarterback is what he can be right away.

And then where it goes from there, we'll see. Maybe there's a little Philip Rivers type of comparison to him where there's a little riverboat gambling, a little playmaking, trying to win the game. I don't think it's quite Wilson that I would make the comparison to, but I get where you're coming from that. So, all right, any other thoughts, questions? I'll tell you real quick what, feel free to throw them in there. Got time for a couple more. Um, but what I'm looking for in mini camp is our first real look at a good amount of reps from this team, because in OTAs we get only a handful that

we get to see of seven on sevens. And I know that, uh, Kevin O'Connell is just not big and I respect this. And I think it's right. I don't think you ever want anybody getting hurt in a mini camp ever. It's about installing the offense, getting going for everybody, getting them introduced to what you're going to do in camp, but you should never go crazy hard. And sometimes I'm surprised when I see other teams around the league and then reminded that Mike Zimmer used to do that and players were like, why are we having

a full practice like this? So I don't expect to see a crazy amount of reps, but I think what turns up is they've spent these last two weeks getting the basic install and now they start to really run it a little bit more and where they want to be is in a very good place where everybody gets it. Everybody gets the basic stuff so you can arrive at training camp and not have to teach. You arrive at training camp, everybody knows the offense, and now you start building all the details into the offense.

That's where they want to be. But in mini camp, we should be able to get a better look at how this is all functioning than just a handful of seven on sevens and a handful of red zone drills. It should be more intense and we should see a lot more passes from JJ McCarthy in and we'll see about 11 on 11s, but at very least in a seven on seven situation. And we've seen two practices so far. One of them I thought went very, very well. And the other one I thought was a little more spotty, a little more choppy, a little more Kevin O'Connell having to teach a bad interception, stuff like

that, that, you know, no panic over. But how does it look now in this next step? Does it look like he is a little more on point than he was the last time we saw him? Is there consistency? That's really what we're looking for too. If we've got three practices to see, is it three consistent practices? And then aside from JJ McCarthy, uh, which there are other subjects to talk about with the team.

I'm very interested in where the wide receivers stand when camp begins, because at the end of mini camp, we can pretty much make out a beginning of training camp depth chart. So who's the top wide receiver that's not one of the clear top three? It's going to be Jefferson, Addison, Naylor, but is Felton the next guy there? We'll see about Rondale Moore.

He hasn't practiced yet, but it looked like he was coming along, but is Felton clearly the guy there? Or is there anybody else that we start to see go, Oh, okay. We didn't expect this guy like lucky Jackson. Maybe it's lucky Jackson's year. He's been around for long enough. Thayer Thomas has been around for a while.

There's one of these guys. Silas Bolden is this intriguing punt returner who's really tiny. Like, is he the guy? Do we start to get a sense for that? Because in 2022, I think, yeah, 2022, 21 must've been 2021 that we got a good sense for KJ Osborne. And then all of a sudden I go, okay, KJ Osborne's making plays. And then last year, Jalen Naylor,

remember he was in for some of the OTAs and mini camp, especially the faster drills for Justin Jefferson in mini camp last year. And he was making plays. We got a good sense for him as well. Who do we get a feeling for in that wide receiver group? And how do the corners look? And they can't play physical.

We need to always keep in mind, but who's out there? Who's making plays? Those are some things that we can start to figure out. And really who's out there is the biggest thing. And then what are they saying about how it went? Dusty says, is Mattel holding in? Are they actively working on an extension at all? I have not asked anyone if they're actively working on an extension. It would not make any sense to me if they weren't.

And I mean, I don't know if you can totally call it a hold in. Like this is, this is fuzzy territory because a couple of years ago we had the hold in from TJ Hawkinson. It was a couple of very funny fake injuries. There was an ear issue and then there was a back issue and then they just got the contract and we moved it along. I would expect that they are working on an extension for Josh Metellus. He's a very, very important part of this defense. What might be hard is figuring out the price.

It's something I've been thinking about lately is how do you negotiate with a guy that doesn't play a position? If you're him, you're putting it on snap count. Compare yourself to linebackers, compare yourself to safeties. Probably linebackers is a little better comparison based on his usage But also nickel corners like everybody's tossed in the mix. He doesn't have one clear spot

It might take a little more work for them to get that figured out if I'm him and they're negotiating a contract The last thing I'm doing is seven on sevens at full speed when you're Josh Mattel is like you're gonna be fine You've been in this defense for three years now. It shouldn't be a concern if they're working on it. And that's why he wasn't participating in those faster drills. Well, good, good for them. And he's somebody that they should absolutely get re-signed. Jar Blonde says my dream Superbowl matchup since Buffalo went 0 and 4 and has been Bill's always is Bill's versus Vikings Someone someone zero must go I've been worried Buffalo will go to another one before Minnesota could get back in what say you I Mean if you're not picking the Bills as a Super Bowl favorite this year, I don't know like they are right

They should be they should be the number one favorite to go to the Super Bowl this year. I don't know. Like they are right. They should be, they should be the number one favorite to go to the Superbowl this year. Kansas city is still strong. Baltimore is still strong. Cincinnati, I think he's going to bounce back quite a bit. But aside from that, I mean, the bills should be top dog and I could see them. I mean, they've been so close year after year. And it's kind of like Indianapolis for years there with Peyton Manning where eventually if you have a quarterback this good, you break through eventually. And I think Buffalo has a very good chance at that. Minnesota will see it would be. Yes, it would be a great matchup.

I mean, if you were picking, if you were going to tell me, Hey, I went, I went forward in time. I got in the DeLorean. I went forward in time to the Superbowl. I saw the Vikings there, but I couldn't make out the AFC team. And I came back and I just had to tell you the Vikings are in the Super Bowl. Who do you think they were playing? I would say Buffalo.

And then if you said, who would you want them to play? I would say Buffalo for exactly what you're talking about. And you know, I have so many friends there and it means so much to that place. But just for that matchup of both teams being known for losing four Super Bowls to have somebody win it. I agree. I think that's a great take that if you were going to design an opponent for the Vikings, that's who you'd like it to be. Well, actually who you'd like it to be is Jacksonville or something where they, uh, every quarterback got hurt on the way there or something. So the Vikings

would have the best chance, but you're right. Uh, to say that, that that would be the most fun for sure. Uh, Buffalo needs to get Allen, a wide receiver one, not according to their GM who yelled at my friend, uh, radio host there about them talking about drafting a wide receiver. I don't know. I don't really fully understand that strategy, my friends, but, uh, that's for somebody else to worry about other than me. I just don't, I don't get it. I don't really fully understand that strategy, my friends, but that's for somebody else to worry about other than me.

I just don't, I don't get it. I don't get it. Like you're not, you would never convince somebody who's covered the Vikings that it's okay to have a wide receiver by committee. Nope, we've seen too many quarterbacks elevated and still Josh Allen's best year, I think better than last year,

his best year was when he had digs at his absolute peak. Still. Son of a beavers other than backup quarterback. Do you think the Vikings trade for a backup or starter during the preseason at the punter? Looking at the punter position. I don't know. I don't know. I keep getting asked about this is a great

place to end the stream. I keep getting asked is this is a great place to end the stream I keep getting asked is there gonna be a real punter competition. I hope so. That's all I could say I hope so. I have been hoodwinked bamboozled tricked let us stray Every year I buy into it. I say alright, I can't wait for this punter competition and then it just doesn't happen So we'll see Oscar Chapman, you are the next man up. All right, thanks everybody.

This was a great chat. We will definitely do it again. Monday night will be live. Maggie Robinson will join me in the second hour of that live stream as well. And you know, she's always digging up a lot of fun stuff to talk about. So we'll see where we're at then.

And it will be, I think a really fun next week. We'll have reactions to each practice next week. That'll be Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Every so often they canceled the third one, but I don't think they'll do that this year with a new quarterback. So we'll see, but we'll be doing shows after that. Dane Mizutani will be out at TCO Performance Center. I'll be doing some live shows as well to break down what we see at mini camps. So make sure you are tuned in then. And also some good shows to check out just on the channel. Did a show about Jim Marshall. That was a really fun one and lots of JJ McCarthy coverage as always. So keep your eyes on the channel and we will talk to you all soon. Football.