Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Aaron Rodgers will make his decision, a weird Russell Wilson connection and the Vikings are a Combine winner

Episode Date: March 7, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic talk about reports that Aaron Rodgers will make his decision this week and make predictions about what that will mean for the quarterback trade market. Plus PFF Bet tweeted out strange odds that Russell Wilson will be the Vikings quarterback next year. That's weird. Paul gives his 5 most notable things from the NFL Combine, including that the Vikings' positions of need crushed it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matt McCullough here and joining you from WCCO Radio, Paul Hodowanek. Paul, I was driving around, was going to taco bell this week flipped on 8 30 on the am dial which still exists and uh then i and i heard your reporting i heard your reporting on how baseball is going to ruin all the downtown businesses thanks baseball hey has anything ever crushed your interest of a sport like rob manfred with baseball? I could not care any less. Sorry, businesses close to Target Field. I like Target Field, but Rob Manfred has absolutely ruined any joy I ever got from baseball. Yes. My family had season tickets when I was younger. I

was a massive Twins fan, even when they were, like when they drafted, I'd watch the draft, the Byron Buxton draft. I remember watching it and then like getting like the M I L B app and like tracking his stats as he's coming up. Like I was fully into this era of the twins. And then just in the last couple of years, I just, I can't bring myself to watch much of it. If they would have gotten rid of Byron Buxton, this isn't an MLB podcast, but if they would have gotten rid of Byron Buxton, I is an MLB podcast, but if they would have gotten rid of Byron Buxton,

I'm not sure how many, how much I would have watched at all. But yes, MLB is ruining a lot of things. And one is my viewership. So yes, happy to be on, on this football podcast,

but yes, I am on WCCO radio. You can hear me all the time, but yeah, you're consistently doing reports there, which is very cool for you. And this is, I think week two or three so we'll track your progress as well as a reporter as as you uh grow into that role so let's uh get right to it um i want to start with a report from espn about aaron rogers and before i even get into the whole report and what it says, I just want to say that if the Vikings are judging anything that they do based on what happens with Aaron Rodgers, that is foolish.

Because, A, the Green Bay Packers in this market could still end up with another quarterback who's good at football if the green bay packers had last year jimmy garoppolo instead of aaron rogers which they could reasonably get if aaron rogers is traded they would have still won the division because look at the other teams in the division and one of them won eight games another one won six and another one won three so um they still would have won the division. If you're not better than you were last year by much, you'll still lose the division if the Packers get someone else. Also, it's possible that Jordan Love can play football. I'm not saying that it's super likely at this point, but it's possible. So I think that if the Vikings are saying, you know what, maybe we should keep Cousins because we'll be able to win the division. That is not a guarantee.

They haven't won the division at all since he's been with the Vikings. And there was only one year where they even had enough wins to win a division, any division in the NFL. And that would have been 2019. Had they played the final game with Cousins, they had a chance to win 11. And that would have been the only year where they were a team that could have won any division so i don't understand where that logic comes from but paul the report is that this week rogers will inform the packers whether he wants to come back or retire or be traded your thoughts yeah i think in a mike

silver tweet which with an interaction with david bakhtiar i'm not sure if you've seen that on twitter one of the funniest things i've seen in a long time um said he wants to do it by tuesday afternoon so this is fast approaching uh and i think he's gonna stay i think that's kind of where i've kind of been on that train throughout the season i just couldn't picture him anywhere else. And so I was, I was going to wait to be proven wrong. And just, you know, maybe it's growing up a Vikings fan, you know, Brett Favre, you see Aaron Rodgers, it doesn't feel like they can ever have a bad quarterback. So maybe it was some denial in my mind, like, yeah, I don't know if they can actually have a bad quarterback. I'm not sure I've seen that. So I was always kind of on the fence with Rodgers.

And I think this, we haven't really gotten many smoke screens that he wants to leave or any really rumblings. And the way it seems to me is they're just going to trend to, to keeping him, which I think if the Vikings were trying to make any big decisions of their future and any of it was like reliant upon Rogers leaving or staying, I think it's better that he's then staying because it doesn't convince them to go for it and probably make a wrong decision because one,

you're not just trying to win your division. You have playoff games to win after that. I think we've seen in the Mike Zimmer era, winning a division or making the playoffs isn't good enough. It shouldn't be what you aspire to. So that shouldn't have been just the top goal. Even if Aaron Rogers left and you just suddenly drop everything to try to push for that but yeah i think he's staying and i think in general maybe short term not great for vikings

fans but long term for the long term longevity it might actually be good uh because the packers have to then waste another year of jordan loves rookie deal they can't get a clear look at him rogers probably isn't going to be there super, super long. And the Packers just have to keep kicking money down the road over and over and over again. So from a Vikings perspective, I, it's, it's weird, but I think it's better that he's coming back. At least if you're envisioning this in a, in a long-term outlook, the situation reminds me very much of what happened with new orleans and drew breeze where they kept signing breeze to extensions that had a million void years and they kept adding void years to everybody else and then last year they lost half of their roster and still turned out

to be a halfway decent roster because they have enough star talent but not good enough to take tasem hill and trevor simeon and jamisis Winston to the playoffs. And I look at the Packers as being similar, is a lot of their players are good and they could franchise tag Devontae Adams or sign Adams to an extension that had a lower cap hit right away and do the all in and who cares what happens later, which when you have this very specific situation, it makes sense. In almost all other situations, it does not. But with this one, with someone who is easily going to the Hall of Fame, who is MVP, arguably one of the top, what, 10 quarterbacks in NFL history, yeah, I think you have to try to take advantage of those last moments

of his career while your Super Bowl window is still open. And then, you know, if it's five years of being bad after that, then it's five years of being bad. I'm sure from a Vikings fan perspective, it's tricky because you probably think, well, if he comes back and the Vikings aren't convinced to keep Cousins they can do something that's better for their long term and sort of punt on the season in the way that they're not thinking oh we're going to dominate this division and we're going to go deep in the playoffs but rather we're going to take a long-term view on everything that happens that is probably better for the Vikings however you can't ever root for things to go right in Green Bay. And if Aaron Rodgers

comes back, then that means another chance that the Green Bay Packers end up winning a Super Bowl. And I think that Rodgers does come back. That's just my guess I would put on record right now. And he could change that on Tuesday. But if you're the Packers, I don't know how much motivation there is to trade him to another team. Like you're, you could be helped long-term for sure, but I would want to set the price so high that somebody else has to ruin their franchise. If they're going to take this guy away from us or that you're essentially set up for a really long time because you get three firsts or something like that. Think about the Khalil Mack deal where what the Raiders needed to get back in return

to trade away the league's best edge rusher was two first round picks. You needed an outrageous return to be able to say, well, look, folks, we just couldn't turn it down. And Green Bay, if they trade him for anything less than three first round picks, they look like complete fools. So they have to have that as their price tag. A first round pick, two first round picks like that would be helpful in the future. But you need something that you could say, sorry, Packers fans. fans, we just could not turn down them trading us the entire keys to the Denver franchise for the future that now we'll be able to rebuild and have an incredibly strong roster for the next quarterback. But I think that what Rodgers will do is come back, sign a deal that makes him a

Packer for life, and in that way, separates himself from Brett Favre and gives him maybe one, maybe two more shots at winning a Super Bowl and then having two for the Packers, from Brett Favre and gives him maybe one, maybe two more shots at winning a Super Bowl and then having two for the Packers, which Brett Favre does not have. That's how I think it's going to play out. But if he ends up in Denver, then Vikings fans will be able to hold a parade in downtown Minneapolis. And I think for the first time, the Packers will not have an all-time great quarterback.

I think Jordan Love might change that but let me think yeah and the one other thing is if it comes Tuesday that's a big domino to fall regardless of the outcome because if he decides he wants to get traded then that immediately becomes a bidding war between the Carolinas the Denver Broncos is these other teams that one the Vikings could potentially trade Kirk Cousins to, or two could be fighting for a draft quarterback in the draft, if that's the way they want to go. So if he decides he wants to get traded,

suddenly that becomes a really interesting storyline. And one, he sets the market. So then what a Kirk Cousins trade could look like, maybe I don't think it gets influenced much, but you at least see what the market is out there. And then if he decides to stay, then the Broncos, the Panthers, those ones that seem desperate for quarterbacks, then they have to go to their second options. So now does Russell Wilson trade rumors start to heat up even more? Does someone convince themselves of Deshaun Watson? Does someone convince themselves of Kirk Cousins or Jimmy Garoppolo?

So Aaron Rodgers was always kind of the first domino to fall. We thought that domino was going to be where he was going to get traded, but that domino might just be that he's staying. And that causes as much of a ripple effect as him going, because all the teams that geared up this off season to get Rodgers or to be in a position to get a quarterback now have to move down the list, and it becomes even more competitive for the guys that could get traded because there's just less of them out there.

So by the middle of next week, I think we'll have, if a decision comes through one way or the other, I think the quarterback market is going to start to kind of, the pace is going to pick up here as teams start to figure out what people are doing. And that's why I think a lot of people went to Indy hoping to have concrete answers on what was going to happen with the quarterbacks. But the reality is that no one really knows. And it's

really about Rodgers and Russell Wilson and Jimmy Garoppolo and what happens with them first. And I think that with cousins, you're sitting in a spot where you do not have to trade them. You can play out this year and he's got one year left on his deal and then decide to move on or draft someone in 2023 when it is allegedly a better draft class though, outside of the first two guys, I'm not convinced because the third ranked guy right now is spencer rattler who got benched for somebody else so i don't know about that um but the first two guys cj stroud and bryce young are franchise quarterbacks and maybe if you're

the vikings you have your eye on those guys if next year you're drafting 15th and you're going to trade your whole franchise for one i don't know I mean it's so hard to project forward to look at the next draft class because Sam Howell was supposed to be the decided number one pick this year and then he turned out not to be and now it's Malik Willis who I think none of us really knew a whole lot about Malik Willis when he was moving so a lot can change yeah it's hard to kind of forecast a year out I think like a year out Christian Hackenberg was like the number one quarterback a few years back. Then he drops super, super far. Like just a year, you can have a guy that was a shoe-in prospect and suddenly he's nowhere to be found.

I think that was like the Matt Barkley situation as well, too, way back. So it's really dangerous to look, well, the guys next year already look better before this year's draft. And if they keep Kirk Cousins, they're probably not, they're probably winning too many games to then be in a spot where realistically it makes sense that you'd be in line for one of those guys, or you have to trade so much to get up there. Right. Which is why it makes more sense to draft a quarterback this year. And then if you don't like what you got, then you start looking toward next year or the other options.

We also don't know who's going to become available in the free agent or trade market. Sometimes you can project that forward, and sometimes you're surprised that another quarterback becomes available. And I think what we've seen in the last couple of years is there's just a lot more quarterback movement than there ever was before in the past. It would have been shocking if one quarterback was straight up traded for another in past years, but now that's something that we can almost expect from year to year, and there's always older quarterbacks who have been successful who might be available, and on and on and on.

And the Russell Wilson thing seems more likely to happen next year after they have another mediocre year and fire Pete Carroll finally, which I really don't understand why they didn't do this year. But the point just being that after Tuesday, we'll have an idea of what the trade market is and teams can start to make movements. Because I think what every team was telling everybody at the combine was, oh, no, no one's getting traded.

No quarterbacks getting traded. Nothing to see here. And I even saw today that there's buzz of a lot of teams being interested in Mitch Trubisky, that there will be a Trubisky bidding war, which just a little side note, if Trubisky ends up getting 10 million, that is $35 million less than Kirk Cousins. That's a lot you can do on your roster. I'm just saying, just saying. But all these things are out there. And it's like, did Mitch Trubisky tell you that? But it's just, you know, it's sort of weird because everyone's acting like it's sort of decided that there's just not going to be a lot of movement here.

And there's going to be two weeks before free agency and not everything is at all resolved and i thought this was weird and kind of interesting that pff bet which is a twitter account tweeted out that by some bookie there's a plus 550 bet uh or that Russell Wilson will become the Vikings next quarterback. I'm sorry. I did find, I did find the article that correlates to it. So,

okay. Okay. You did. Is there any explanation to why it would be plus 550, which I do know enough to know that those are insane odds. Like those are sort of high odds. Like does someone know something? did someone hear something in indie that i didn't yeah that's like a what would that be that's like an over 10 chance that that that's

the outcome or something like that uh which just seems very far-fetched it was it's odds for the vikings quarterback week one who is going to be the quarterback so kirk cousins is minus 400 for this betting and then the next option is russell wil cousins is minus 400 for this betting. And then the next option is Russell Wilson, which minus 400 is not that crazy either. Like that's not that high. No, but no, there's not a big explanation for why exactly those odds are that way. So I'm not quite sure if, I mean, a lot of the times this isn't an official odds. Um, this isn't like one of the vaguest books that has done this, but a lot of times they can be ahead on stuff that we maybe don't know um so i don't know if that stretches to this point for this particular um these particular odds but very interesting that

it would go kirk cousins and then russell wilson next um any and then yeah it it is it is weird but i i don't know what were your thoughts when you saw that? Do you, that, do you have that article in front of you? Who was, who else was listed? Uh, Derek Carr was plus 700. Baker Mayfield was plus nine 50. Jimmy Garoppolo was plus 3000. Any rookie quarterback was plus 3,800 and Kellen Mond was plus 4,000.

So if you, if you got the odds, I feel like any rookie quarterback would be your best bet. Although if someone got hurt and Kellen Mond started, then I guess maybe that's a better bet than trying to guess which one of those. All of those are strange. Yeah, if you can find Kirk Cousins to be the week one quarterback at minus 400,

you should probably take that. I'm not a betting man, but that's... I don't know why Vegasgas would trade derrick carr for kirk cousins yeah derrick carr is probably more physically gifted they are very similar quarterbacks uh jimmy garoppolo would be pretty stunning although it's not the craziest thing i've ever heard if the vikings traded away cousins and then traded for jimmy garoppolo but that just seems like an either or type of situation as well like they're pretty similar garoppolo is maybe a little better but i'm not massively better than kirk cousins and then uh any rookie quarterback feels like it

should be much higher because the vikings coming out of indie one thing i noticed is that they're starting to be included in graphics for potential targets for top quarterbacks. And they're starting to be included in mocks for potential quarterbacks after Indy where everybody talks to everybody. So, and of course, you know, at least my feeling on it right now is that they will let it play out again, very far from being decided on that because you don't know what the offers are going to be after the Rogers decision. So, you know, if you don't know the offers, you can't say whether they would do it or not. The Russell Wilson thing was very shocking to see that anyone would think that he was going to be the Vikings quarterback for next year. I mean, especially

when you look at his cap hit and if they trade him this year, Seattle takes on at least before June 1st, $26 million in dead cap. Next year is only 13, by the way. Now this wouldn't work horribly for the Vikings because they, if they trade away cousins, then they will earn 35 million on the cap. And then they would have to pay Wilson 37 million. And so you're kind of like basically ending up in the same spot only with a much better quarterback, somebody who's got trending toward the hall of fame in Russell Wilson. And then you can give him Jefferson and all those other things that you can give him. So in this scenario, and this is why it's so crazy that it would be the top pick outside of cousins in this scenario, you'd probably have

to trade cousins to someone else that someone else would have to take his whole contract. And then you'd have to trade several first round draft picks to the Seattle Seahawks. I just don't understand how this is supposed to work. Yeah, I don't see that as a probable option. And none of these, like, I don't think you're trading him straight up for Derek Carr. I don't think you'd be trading him. Maybe you're trading him straight up for Baker Mayfield just to let him play out his contract. But all of these odds imply that they're trading cousins and then in a separate deal, bringing in a quarterback, which just feels not like the way they're going to go.

And also those names are guys that are just kind of middle of the road guys. And if you're going to get off one of those guys, then it would seem like you're going to try to get a stopgap quarterback, cheap free agent quarterback, and you're drafting someone to sit behind him or you're letting Kellen Mond see what he's going to do. So I don't really hear the argument for the Vikings trading for another team's mediocre quarterback.

That's still on a still on a contract. Folks, we've got an even better offer to tell you about from SodaStick. If you use the promo code PURPLEINSIDER, one word, you can get 15% off your purchase. That's right. At SodaStick.com, your place for Minnesota sports-inspired apparel. You can get 15% off just by using the code PURPLEINSIDER. I've told you about all the great football designs, but they've added a few more,

including the Axe is Back for Minnesota football fans. You can get that on a shirt, on a hat, and also Randy Moss is the Goat, the Purple People Eaters, Bud Grant designs for the old school fan, plus the hockey and basketball teams are both actually exciting this year and soda stick has you covered there as well go to soda stick that.com that is s-o-t-a

s-t-i-c-k.com and use the code purple insider for 15 off and espn's reporting on this is that seattle turned down a deal from washington for three first round draft picks which seattle what are you doing isn't it funny how fast the team being run by the same people this happened to the vikings can go from one of the smartest teams in the league that everybody's copying to one of the dumbest teams in the league just like that you get behind a little bit and you're not savvy just a little bit. You have a couple of bad drafts and all of a sudden you are just at the bottom in terms of teams that know what they're doing. Seattle does not have a roster

that's going to reasonably compete for a Super Bowl. With Russell Wilson last year, I think they were six and eight. So they were below 500 team, even with a great quarterback. That's how bad their defense was. Their offensive line, their coaching has gone way down from just a few years ago. And they were the team that hit on a bunch of draft picks, was a little ahead of the curve with the way they play defense, had a ton of great players. And then that defensive system, it seems like they've just stayed the same and everyone's roasting it now. Like everyone's figured out how to attack that system,

including the Vikings, if you remember that game where the Vikings destroyed Seattle. So if you're them, why are you not trading Russell Wilson for three firsts? Why did you bring back the leadership to begin with? It feels like they are Vikings 2021, where you go, what was really the leadership to begin with? It feels like they are Vikings 2021 where you go, what was really the point of doing this? When your fate is pretty much already written for you for next year.

And then they'll trade Russell Wilson the year after, after they have fired everybody. And I don't really understand. Yeah. I think the only defensible way that you can, like I see very, I see what you see in similarities between the Vikings. The only way, or the only reason I think they would get more leeway is they've won, you know, they've won.

They've won a Super Bowl. They, they, they've had success. So yeah, it feels like maybe it's time for Pete Carroll to go, but he also has the success to back up. Hey, we were really, really good for a long stretch of time we were a dominant team russell wilson on the hall of fame trajectory easier to stay with those guys and maybe better put harder to get rid of those guys when you have that success when when you're a vikings fan or a vikings owner you're looking at the best case scenario is getting blown out in an nfc championship game easier to move off that than it is to move off the really, really good times you've had

in Seattle. So before we move on to some combine stuff and some insane performances at the combine, how would you do it if you were the odds maker? If a major sports book called up and said, Paul, tell me how we should set the odds for who will be the quarterback of the Minnesota Vikings next year. How would you do it? Yeah I I won't pretend to know like okay Kirk Cousins makes most sense at like minus 1,000 versus minus 500 like I don't know I think Kirk Cousins being the starter uh just based on I mean it just seems like they might take him into this year um and kind of let it

play out so I would say that's probably the overwhelming favorite. That would be where I'd go week one starter. I would say the favorite is Kirk Cousins. And then after that, I think you're better suited putting some of those like stopgap free agent quarterbacks that they could pick up. So it's not Russell Wilson, Derek Carbaker, Mayfield like this. It's Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, Gardner Minshew.

Like how that's how I would fill it out. It would be Kirk Cousins and then that level. And then below that, like Mond and any rookie quarterback, because it doesn't. I feel like with the talent they have on the roster and just the quarterback class, although it seems to be growing on people, still feels like raw in terms of playing next year. So I still wouldn't put that up super high, but I think it would be cousins, a tier of stop gap, fill in the blank one year, two year quarterbacks, and then Mond and a potential rookie. Yeah. It probably depends on which rookie, if it's Malik Willis, he really strikes me as a guy who needs to sit for half a year or the entire year but maybe desmond ritter

is a little more refined and has played a little more football and kenny pickett is supposed to be the guy who you can most put in there right away and he could perform so i would probably have that just second because of that because even if you bring in another quarterback like if you brought in a ryan fitzpatrick which i just don't feel like the Wilfs are going to allow them to do if they wanted to, if they wanted to just bring in a Ryan Fitzpatrick or a Mitch Trubisky, are they going to say, no, we're totally fine with downgrading with the talent there to save a bunch of money to fill up the rest of the spots, even though you probably end up with the same results. Are you going to be okay with it? Probably not. But, you know, I agree with you that the second on the list is those free agent stopgap quarterbacks. If they were to bring in James Winston, who I'm not a fan of, by the way,

just because of the off-field stuff, but let's just talk about the talent football-wise. If they were to bring in someone like that, I mean, what is the difference in terms of what you would expect for this year? Winston is not as good at football, but also wouldn't cost that much. He was winning games with the saints and they tried to do what they tried to limit how much he could hurt them. Use some of his arm talent. This kind of sounds like their current quarterback I mean I just feel like it would be probably the same with a lot of those guys and there's a good case for that much more than some humongous blockbuster that is extremely hard to work like I was trying

to figure out with salary cap how it would work with Russell Wilson and like you said the only thing that I could come up with was trade cousins to Carolina, get them to take his whole contract, then trade separately all your draft capital for the rest of time for Russell Wilson, which I'm not sure is a good idea. Anyway, I think Wilson's one of the best quarterbacks ever, but I, you know, you've seen their roster fall apart. Like he's not on the level of a Drew Brees. He's not on the level of an Aaron Rogers. And so even,

even a shade below, I mean, look, you know, Phillip rivers had this happen. Like Phillip rivers got big contracts and then it took them a while to get back to where they wanted to be with even a great quarterback with Phillip rivers and Joe Flacco. When he got, he was more of a Kirk style, but a little better. And the same thing with him, they gave him that huge contract. It was really hard to keep that team going. So I don't know, giving up all your cap space and all your draft capital for somebody who's better than Kirk. I'm not even sure I like that option. Yeah. I think if you trade for a Russell Wilson, he isn't old, but he's also a guy that you want to bring him in and you want to have the roster around him to immediately win in year one, two, three. If he came into the Vikings and takes up all that cap space, they're more in a position to win in two, three, four, like that three, four, five years after, which just feels like on the slighter, like long-term end of Russell Wilson's like peak. Like, I think if you brought him in, put him in the Broncos situation, put him in the Steelers

situation where you can kind of have him peak this year, peak next year for your top, you know, like, like when you hope to contend for the Superbowl, I think that's what, that's the situation you want to bring Russell Wilson into this situation feels like you maybe are going to use one or two of his prime years on a time when the roster is not quite ready around him to get there. So yeah, I'm not, I mean, Russell Wilson is undoubtedly in a better option than Kirk Cousins, undoubtedly the best quarterback they've had in a really, really long time. So if it happened, it would be really, really cool to see. But if we're trying to line up timelines, I'm just not quite sure they fit perfectly. And that's why next year is more of a time for the Vikings to try to trade for Russell Wilson, if that's an available option. If they do let

Cousins go all the way through this year, and then you're looking at not that much in dead cap for Seattle to trade him, very likely everyone's getting fired out there. And then you're looking at not that much in dead cap for Seattle to trade him. Very likely everyone's getting fired out there. And then you can add up another draft class for this year, get your cap straight. It just makes so much more sense in the future than it does right now. But let's move on to some combine stuff. So I was doing a draft simulation. PFF draft simulator is always very fun. And we use that one all the way through the year.

And now they have Aiden Hutchinson as the number one pick and i think that this week there will be a lot of people every year who go oh you know what does running around in shorts have to do with football but when you can put numbers out there that are similar to some of the best players at the position, they get a real picture of what kind of athlete you are to go along with Hutchinson, who was a Heisman finalist. I agree. I think Aiden Hutchinson is going to go number one after he put up incredible numbers at the combine. Yeah. One of my biggest combine takeaways, I don't know if we were going to do that later, was just the defensive line unit in general. And they they showed out starting at the top with Aiden Hutchinson and Kayvon Thibodeau. Both were really, really good. Aiden Hutchinson by relative athletic score, which is just a metric that people use kind of bringing in all those, you know, the 40 yard dash, his weight, height, three cone, all the vertical jump, broad jump, to kind of put him in context,

he was in the 98th percentile of all defensive ends. So that's what you want from a number one pick defensive end, potential cornerstone of a defensive line. He was higher than Kayvon Thibodeau, who was in the 96th percentile, so not far uh far below that uh but yeah i i i i think there was steam going for an offensive tackle first and they could still prioritize that really trying to build something for trevor lawrence to not feel like he's the walls are closing in on him and i don't think that's necessarily a bad idea if you really like one of those guys but if not you just kind of take the best player and that appears to be aideniden Hutchinson after this week. Yeah. I think that, I mean, when you're

in a position like Jacksonville, you should just take the best player and not worry about anything else. I mean, not worry about, Oh, we need a tackle because our quarterback, uh, you can sign tackles. They have a ton of cap space if you want one. I mean, the Vikings are actually evidence of this, that they signed Riley Reif and he was good for them for several years. Like you could, you could do that. And if that doesn't work, you know, you can always draft one later. But I, you know, I think that edge rushers with this level of talent, players who could be hall of famers, that's an impact on a franchise. That's just different. And this is why I think it would be smart for the Vikings to draft one.

If they're not going to draft quarterback is that player can have an impact on a franchise for so many years to come and also right away. So if the Jaguars are trying to be better right away, this person could come in and if he's a hit right away, he can get you eight to 10 sacks and he can get you a lot of pressures and be an impact player from the very start. That's not something that you expect really from a tackle. Even Penesul, who turned out to be good overall last year, had a tough first half of the season. Andrew Thomas, who's turned out to be a good player. Colton Miller, like a lot of high draft picks start off pretty tough. And Christian Derrissaw had his moments.

We were really impressed by him overall, but he also gave up four or five sacks where he just got straight up beaten because he was a rookie. Those usually take several years to develop. That's not to say don't draft tackles. It's just if your goal is to take some huge step forward and get someone that helps you right away and for the long term, Aiden Hutchinson makes more sense. so well since you brought it up you made a list of things of takeaways from the combine why don't we go through those so uh defensive ends oh i wanted to mention too so i'm doing this draft sim and i'm looking at where the vikings pick and thinking okay if you're not

going with the quarterback there's going to be a lot of good edge rushers or defensive linemen that they could end up with. You have George Karlaftis, who is the edge rusher out of Purdue. I don't think that he helped himself a ton this week, but Tyler Lindenbaum is somebody that's been brought up. I think it would be nuts to draft a center in the first round. You've sort of seen that mistake get made, but he's on the board on this. But Trayvon Walker absolutely destroyed the combine for Georgia. So did Devante Wyatt and Jordan Davis destroyed it in ways that have never been seen before for a man that's 340 pounds. And also David Ajobo from Michigan. He was also incredible in terms of his combine performance. So if you're the Vikings and you

get to 12, I think this is a situation where you trade down because there's so many freak athletes at the position that you want. And also there was some corners that helped themselves as well. Sauce Gardner being one of them running under a four or five and being a guy who's really tall and lanky. So I think it was a good day to be the Vikings

if you're not drafting a quarterback. But even if you are, all the quarterbacks who would be expected to be the Vikings if you're not drafting a quarterback. But even if you are, all the quarterbacks who would be expected to be picked there performed well and raised their draft stock. So I think this was an overall good combine for the Vikings. Yeah. Yeah. So that was my number one was just the defensive depth and talent of the defensive line. I think coming into this week, that was kind of already the consensus top position group of the NFL draft. And I don't think that was changed at all. But coming into the week, 14 of the top 50 prospects on Daniel Jeremiah's board were defensive linemen.

14 of them on PFF's board were defensive linemen. 12 of them on the Athletics' Dane Brugler were defensive linemen. So there is a wealth of of talent in the top 50 and there are some guys right outside all of their top 50s that had really good weeks that could kind of sneak in there as well uh so my first thought was okay maybe they can hold off to the second round but a lot of those guys i think we're going to end up going back to the first round top of the second round so they might not be able to afford to wait so that could be when a trading down scenario works really really

well for him but you named one jordan davis uh had a record broad jump for a defensive tackle had like the eighth fastest um 40 yard dash by a defensive tackle since 1999 and he's 341 pounds uh normally those go up go to the like lighter defensive linemen that are like 280 290 so he's got another 50 pounds on him and was running that uh and by that relative athletic score measurement that i talked about earlier he was in the 100th percentile so uh the best basically defensive tackle from an athletic perspective that they've ever seen uh then you have trayvon walker like you said was in the 99th percentile of that relative athletic score 451 uh 40 yard dash uh

but yeah there were just so many guys that did really really well david and jabo jermaine johnson tested well boy a mafe a minnesota kid that people um might recall he seemed like someone who might be there for them in the second round after this week he might not be there for them at this point in the second round so there were and he was good at the senior bowl too. So that's going to help him. He's put together a really nice post post-season pre-draft, you know, slate here. So yeah.

And then, and then even the top prospects did really well. Obviously the Vikings aren't going to be able to get a cave on Thibodeau or an agent Hutchinson, but those guys showed out as well. So pretty much every defensive lineman minus just one or two in that top, like 50 range did really, really, as well. So pretty much every defensive lineman, um, minus just one or two, uh, in that top like 50 range did really, really, really well. So I think they're just going to continue to rise up. And I think there's going to be many options for the Vikings at 12. If they trade back,

there'd be many options at 20. They want to wait till 44. There are still going to be one or two or three good options that they might want. so that is a really good sign for the Vikings now my initial take on Jordan Davis before the combine was I mean I really was impressed watching him play football for Georgia but is that really something that you want to start building a defense with I mean I don't know if I see it tremendously different now, even though I am totally wowed by this and it's a special combine, but I do think of how much Vita Vea has helped the Tampa Bay Bucks and how unique and special he is that if you have one of those guys who is a powerhouse in every area, I think of Chris Jones from Kansas city as being this

way to someone who is so humongous, but also chases after the passer in most of the scouting reports though. And this is where I would pump the brakes a little is that most of the scouting reports have said in terms of pass rush moves in terms of pass rush ability. And one of his comps in terms of athletics, uh, athleticism is Don Terry Poe, who was a really good player, but not at all a Vita Vea who can completely dominate in terms of getting after the passer. I think you want edge rusher is kind of where I would be leaning. If that came up that you would, uh, instead want somebody who was going to get after a passer, especially if they move on from Daniel Hunter, which I don't know if they will, but if they do,

then you're definitely going to need to take an edge rusher there. So give me some other takeaways that you had. Yeah. Two was Malik Willis will not be at 12 when the Vikings pick. I think we've been trending this direction just as quarterbacks naturally go up boards as we get closer and closer to the draft. But I, at least from what i've seen from mock drafts and people talking about it he just killed every

part of this of this pre-draft process he performed well with the drills everything that he said in the meetings apparently was taken really really well he's going social media viral for helping some old person on the street like all the boxes you might want to check continues to check. And so for me with three or four quarterback needy teams ahead of the Vikings, it just feels like one of them is going to bite. And he feels like who I would pick as the guy who's going to the quarterback, who's going to go off the board first at this point. And so it just doesn't feel like,

I know he's kind of become a darling to people in the Vikings fans who want Kirk Cousins to go. And I can see exactly why. I'm just not sure he's going to be there. And I liken it. It's less of a meteoric rise that then Zach Wilson had. But I remember doing these podcasts with you every week last two seasons ago after games. We do little brief skull searching things. And it was always, oh, do you see what Zach Wilson did?

He was going from the back of the first round. Oh, okay. Now he's maybe in the range where the Vikings are going to go. And suddenly he's the number two pick just because of things, just the hype that's around it. And it feels like that rise is happening from Lake Willis. It's not going to go all the way up to the second pick most likely,

but it feels like the Vikings are now kind of going to be out of the running for him. If they don't try to move up to get him. So that was this week felt like the stamp on that one that they he might not be there for them. Would you trade up for Malik Willis? And I'll tell you, the team that I have spotted here is the New York Giants at seven. I think that I mean, it's possible that the Giants would want Malik Willis and not want to stick with Daniel Jones, but I have a feeling they're going to want to see Brian Dable work

with Daniel Jones for a year before they go all in on the quarterback situation. So let's say that they draft the Giants in this draft sim that I'm doing. Kayvon Thibodeau with the fifth overall pick, and then they get to seven. Now the teams after, three of the four teams after could take malik willis the atlanta falcons the denver broncos the jets i think are probably set with zach wilson for right now and then washington commanders are 11th which they've been mocked a lot for malik willis so if you're going to get them if carolina doesn't take them you're probably talking about trading up with the New York Giants.

I would be very hesitant to do that, even though Malik Willis' ceiling is preposterously high, and maybe history will prove this is a bad take. But I think if you're trying to set odds that Malik Willis becomes a really good quarterback, they're not insanely different than some of the other guys that if you're wanting to draft quarterback you could even trade down and still take desmond ritter or something and i don't know that the odds are way different and you could take more of a long-term view with that because going from 12 to 7 it probably takes the next year's first if you're talking about trading for quarterback i don't think that that would be a great idea for the Vikings. Yeah, I mean, it all just comes down to what O'Connell and Kweisi think of him.

If they view him as this game changer, their dark horse quarterback kind of in this class that is deemed not that great, and they feel really, really good about him, I'm not sure there really is a price that's too high to go up and get him. If you have to give your next year's first, but you feel like Malik Willis is this guy that's going to change your franchise, like you go and do it. It's kind of the similar situation which happened to the Vikings last year

with the Justin Fields scenario in which you're getting outbid by the Bears to get a guy that maybe it sounded like you wanted. And so for me, there's never, if you fully believe he is the guy that's going to change your franchise, there's never a, if, if you fully believe he is the guy that's going to change your franchise, there's not a price that I wouldn't pay at that point. Um, he doesn't feel as safe of a prospect as Justin Fields was just with what, what, um, he showed in college and what he's kind of bringing to the NFL. So there is a lot of uncertainty. Um,

but if you're just deciding between going up, trading a first round pick from Malik Willis or staying at 12 and getting whatever quarterback comes to you, I'd rather be aggressive because you're putting your fate on whoever you draft at that spot, if it's a quarterback. So at that point, an extra first round pick the next year is, I mean, it's not nothing, but it's to get the guy that you want, I would do it. So I would. Well, you think about this draft and even last year, there were a lot of guys who decided to stay in college with the whole COVID situation. And it was a extremely top heavy draft. This one is supposed to be much deeper. And I think that's really played out at the combine. And so if you were to trade down and take Sam Howell or Desmond Ritter, you pick up some extra draft capital.

Let's just say they do what they did last year, get another third round pick and you're taking a quarterback in the mid first. If that quarterback blows up and you still have a second round draft pick who's likely to be good because of how deep the draft is and two thirds that have a chance to be contributors or at least very good prospects if desmond ritter or sam howell blows up in your face and a year from now you're going oh man this guy does not have it at all from what we've seen in training camp preseason and practice you you weren't really hurt that much by that a little i mean for sure because you're talking about the best prospects are usually in the first round, but it would be no different

than drafting a Laquan Treadwell. Like it doesn't have to wreck your franchise that you drafted the wrong guy there and you're not pushing all the chips to the middle of the table. That's the issue I have with trading up is that when you trade up, that is your guy. Like San Francisco right now,

think about where they're at. They have to trade Jimmy Garoppolo. They have to play Trey Lance. You can't trade multiple first round draft picks and then be like, oh, actually Jimmy G got us to the NFC championship. So we're just going to stay the course. No, you can't do that. Not if you gave up that much. So if you were trading another first round pick for Malik Willis, that means you got to give him four years as your quarterback. If you draft Desmond Ritter at 23, you don't have to give him any years as your quarterback. Has it destroyed the Green Bay Packers that they took Jordan Love? Not at all. They have one of the best rosters in the league. Lots of teams draft guys who aren't great. It

doesn't have to ruin you. It only ruins you if you are dead set locked into that guy and then it doesn't work out. And that's even with the Jets. To make another point is that the Jets are in a position where they could take probably the top or second best quarterback. They won't do that because they lock themselves into Zach Wilson. And so, you know, that's that always is tricky if that player does not work out. So what else you got? I had just another quarterback thing.

If Kenny Pickett is a success, it will be unprecedented. Because of the thumbs? Because of the thumbs, man. Is that normal? Mine are not double-jointed at all. No, no double-jointed here or here. Regular jointed. Yeah.

And, I mean, this can be overblown. It can be underblown. But, like, no, there really is, his hands came in at eight and a half inches, which is basically the only other successful quarterback that has ever had hands that size is Michael Vick. That's the only one. And he does not have,

although he ran faster than I expected him to and seemed kind of athletic in shorts, just running in a straight line and doing other things, he's not Michael Vick. And it's not that it's I for school searching. I did this kind of breakdown a couple of weeks ago that it's not a huge deal when you have below average hand size. If you're Joe Burrow or if you're Kyler Murray but their hand size is both around nine nine and a quarter those were just below average those weren't extreme outliers those weren't the smallest that we've ever seen from a first round pick type that is what Kenny Pickett is that's that is Kenny Pickett his eight and a half inch hands no that there is no precedent for

that so if he's good that will represent the first time that that has really ever happened and so i'm that isn't a reason to take like that isn't a reason to get him off the draft board completely it's just interesting to think about that he could be the first quarterback off the board with something that has been for so long a clear benchmark that teams are looking for and it it I I don't know I'm I'm very very perplexed by the just Kenny Pickett um just where he ends up going because and it's not going to be in my eyes right or wrong it's just I'm going to be really really intrigued by it uh because we just have never seen this before Look at you really intrigued by a man with tiny little hands, same size as my hands. And just for reference, I can barely hold a football.

Yeah. I think you and I probably have about exactly the same size hands. I cannot imagine being able to throw an NFL football. I mean, every once in a while, when you're at the sideline at training camp, one will bounce over to you and I've picked it up and i'm like i don't know i don't know how i could throw this so usually yeah it crumbles too and so it's not a non-issue like it's shown up and so if you're one of these colder weather teams like if you're pittsburgh looking at it like you're playing so many games out in the cold the vikings i guess you have the dome so you feel a little bit better but you're still going on the road to the bears, the Packers every year in cold weather. But just in general, if he's successful, it'll be, it's just something we've never seen before. So it's going to be really interesting to track.

And we finally got the measurement and you bet I was on Twitter right when it happened about getting the measurement. I refuse to care about it. I refuse to care about it. I just feel like if he's gotten this far to be a first round draft pick with potential first round draft pick, and he has actually far better athleticism than I expected that he meets a lot of thresholds otherwise that he'll put on the gloves and he'll figure it out. Was there anything else that you had? Yeah, we got to find a better way to do

40 times unofficial 40 times, Matt, were you paying attention to the first day of 40 times when like every single wide receiver was breaking a record for the 40 yard dash? Just like, oh, there's a 4-2-1, there's a 4-2-4. Like we were and then it came out an hour later after like the entire social media world was set ablaze by these fast times that all of them were like a tenth of a second or more off and it just you know it's like the chip in the football and like everything else why we are still going for those unofficial times off a hand-timed situation we get all up in a tizzy and then several hours later it just becomes oh actually he didn't run a 4-2-1 like Chris Olabe ran something insane it came back as a 4-3-9. After seeing his time, he decided not to run again

because he thought he had just broken a massive record. Turns out he's at a 4-3-9, which he probably could have done better than. That was kind of like the average of what they forecasted him to run. And suddenly that has to be his time and he doesn't get to go run it again. So, I mean, it's a very unserious thing but

it's just we you know it's like the it's like any other sport with the why are we doing the chain link um first down like this why are we doing the unofficial times like this technology has come far enough that we should be able to get a better more accurate time for these unofficials so was this uh the person who was doing the unofficial times like like he was new. Yeah. He was new. Really? They've had like the same person doing it. Charlie Casserly. They've had him doing it for like the past,

like whatever, 20, 30 years. So he's done like hundreds of thousands of times. And this year they trotted out a new guy. And the first day of the new guy doing the 40 times, he's off by like massive amounts in terms, at least relative to what 40

yard dash times are like a 421 and a 439 are vastly different and that was what was happening at the combine so yes not a first good not a good first day on the job for that for that fella okay that's really funny i did not catch that story that story is hilarious yeah that it was because i had seen the meme of charlie casserly like how he would but maybe he had it right maybe his technique was right he was like holding up his one arm and pointing it with his eyeball almost like a rifle or something and it was just like it looked ridiculous but i guess he was nailing it and i guess i always wondered why there were people doing it when we have video of the guy running in a digital ability.

But that is really funny because I was still, I didn't go back and check. I'm sure a lot of people didn't. I thought Chris Olave ran a 4-2-6. I didn't go back and see. So now I guess I'm gonna have to recheck or I probably won't. Yeah, or go check all the receivers numbers. All right, before we wrap up, I want you to guess since 2014, the top five best relative athletic scores, which you referenced several times, it just gives you a percentile

of where the person's overall athleticism ranks. And there's a mathematical formula to adjust it by position and things like that. So it's not Linval Joseph against Jarek McKinnon or something. McKinnon's not in the top five, if that was going to be one of your guesses. So the top five most athletic Vikings, according to relative athletic scores since 2014. And I will provide hints if there are struggles here. Okay. Yeah. Justin Jefferson, we'll just throw out right away, see where he is.

Justin Jefferson is, let's see, eighth. So it was a good guess. Okay. Jarek McKinnon was seventh. No, sixth. And Bucky Hodges was seventh. Okay. I'm trying to, Daniil Hunter, was he on there? Yes. Daniil Hunter is fourth. Yep. Yep. Okay. I'm trying to, Daniel Hunter. Was he on there?

Yes. Daniel Hunter is fourth. Yep. Yep. Okay. All right. You have, I remember Garrett Bradbury had a very good combine.

Was he there? Garrett Bradbury is second. Yep. Okay. It's a little bit of a thing about it is it's a little bit of a hack with the offensive lineman. Like the 40 doesn't really necessarily mean a lot, but if you run an insane 40, it will put you up here.

But the athleticism stuff in terms of like three cone agility, Garrett Bradbury just demolished all of that stuff. So even though his weight was one of the lowest and his hand size, which actually might matter for offensive lineman more than quarterbacks, his hand size was really small, but his agility was just so good that that put him way up on the list. All right.

Is Kenny Wong on there? Kenny Wong is. He is fifth. Yep, that's right. He's 4-3-2. Now the other two, you have not gotten number one, and this is the reason I wanted to do this. And number three is another offensive lineman all right uh

ezra cleveland then ezra cleveland is correct yes number one never played it down as a viking okay absolute freak athlete one of the worst football players i've ever seen in my life could not do basic stuff okay think of someone who would be a freak athlete a notable draft pick who could not do basic stuff what year was he drafted this would be uh 2016 okay if people know this they're laughing already. Okay. Is it the German wide receiver? Yeah. Moritz Boringer, whose athletic profile was most comped to Andre Johnson. He's one of the worst football players I've ever seen.

I mean, look, we were so close to getting an Andre Johnson, Matt. So close. He was playing in another country that's not like us and whatever he, but he couldn't catch, he couldn't run routes. And I think Cincinnati tried to make them a tight end recently because there was a international exception for the roster. So they could just keep them there on the practice squad or whatever number of years. Funny story.

I was almost going to say Dan Chisina until you said the year he was drafted, but he's also played. So I don't know where he ranks, but wasn't he just blazing fast? Yeah, I don't remember. He wasn't drafted though. Okay. Yeah, he was a undrafted free agent. I mean, some other notables won't surprise you. Brian O'Neill, Janarius Robinson is on this list.

Chris Boyd, Stephen Weatherly, Eric Hendricks, Trey Waynes. How far back does the list go? Just to 2014? Or do we have further back? Oh, we can go all time. I just figured there were some. I mean, I couldn't have gotten all time. I just want to know who the all time.

I believe Moritz Bollringer is actually the best all time. Oh no, no, no. It's even funnier. It's Joe Webb. Okay, sure. I'll read you the list of, let me, let me, cause you could sort this really cool relative athletic scores.

If you want to play around the website, I'll sort it by players who made at least one pro bowl. So it's all guys we know. So here is all time for made one pro bowl. Dante Culpepper, Daniil Hunter, Justin Jefferson, Adrian Peterson, Robert Smith, Harrison Smith, Everson Griffin, Matt Khalil, Michael Bennett, Kevinennett kevin williams anthony barr randall mcdaniel xavier rhodes percy harvin and then uh cordial patterson after that so yeah there's uh your pro bowlers are often pretty uh pretty athletic so there you have it but none better

than joe webb so none better than joe webb what a career joe webb had honestly i'd love to get him on the show. All right. Well, thanks for your time, Paul. And this week will be very interesting. We have an Aaron Rodgers decision. More buzz will come in the post combine after glow. And then it's free agency right after that.

And then we're in full draft season. So lots of stuff to come. Thanks for your time, Paul. And we'll talk to you later.