Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Adam Thielen joins the show to reminisce and the Strib's Mike Rand talks Cousins' comments

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

Former Minnesota Viking wide receiver Adam Thielen joins the show to talk about his new outlook with the Carolina Panthers and to look back at his breakout game as a Viking back in 2016. He also talked about why he was able to become a great route runner in the NFL. Then Mike Rand of the Star Tribune joined to discuss the Vikings replacing Thielen this year with Jordan Addison and where Thielen ranks among all "One of us" athletes Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

🎵 All right, we welcome into the show a return guest has been on a number of times, but I truly didn't expect to have Adam Thielen, former Minnesota Viking wide receiver, current Carolina Panther, back on the show. But Adam, I got to say, man, your loyalty to the Ambassador Hot Dog brand is unbelievable that you wanted so badly to come on and talk about Ambassador Hot Dogs that you forced your way back on the show. What's going on, man? Well, I appreciate being back on the show, but yes, I do. You know, I love to rep Minnesota companies and, you know, Ambassador Hot Dogs is one

of those companies that has been around for a long time and really embodied itself in the Minnesota culture. So, you know, it's always good to represent great Minnesota companies. I am impressed, though. I mean, that is your loyalty to Ambassador Hot Dogs of wanting to do a goodbye Minnesota tour. And I'm very glad that you have us on it. So we'll talk more about that a little bit at the end.

We'll make sure we get in all the plugs for Ambassador. But how are you doing, man? You're coming to me here from North Carolina, which is just very weird because I'm in TCO Performance Center. My key code works here and yours now doesn't. So this is a little strange for us yeah it's it's really strange um but uh yeah i mean everything happens so fast that you just don't even have time to react or to think about it you just you just figure it out and find a way um but at the same time you know as as disappointed as i am or or or maybe just um sad i guess that

i'm not back with my teammates in my city, that I was born and raised and never left. You know, as disappointed as that is, you know, just how everything played out, I couldn't be happier of where I landed, you know, just from a big picture. I mean, I really believe that God pushed me here and my family here for a reason. And it wasn't just for one reason. It was, you know, this organization, this staff, the players in this locker room. I had no idea, you know, just how, you know,

just talent and not only that, just how many good guys there are in this locker room and then in this, in this organization as well. And then a great city that I've, I've just absolutely loved being in. And it's a new adventure for our family, but we're really excited. So do you feel like the new kid at school there or what? I mean, this is like your place. This is the house that Adam Thielen and company built here at TCO Performance Center.

Now you're going into a new facility, meeting all new people that you didn't know before. I mean, this is something you haven't really gone through. Yeah, I haven't gone through. It's weird for sure. And it's, it's been been such a blessing though. I almost feel like it like it added years in my career. Cause it feels like I'm back to a rookie year and like, you know, just like learning a whole new thing. And it's kind of like a new, exciting, refreshing kind of like breath,

breath of fresh air to my career career so um you know again just very thankful uh to be around a really young locker room uh which is which is really keeping me young and i've enjoyed just kind of going to work with these guys again it's completely different you know i just i just know the organization and the team so well in minnesota that i didn't have to think about that. But here I'm learning new people every single day. You know, it's like the other day, it's like I don't even I haven't even met really, you know, the trainer that I'm going to work with as far as, you know, who who do I go to if if I'm a little sore, I need a stretch or I need a I need, you know, some recovery stuff and just trying to figure out my process there. But, but at the same time, that's, it's been really fun to meet a lot of new people and

just really good people. I mean, just along those lines, it's also been quite some time since you played with a young quarterback that would have been a young Teddy Bridgewater, who is now like an old veteran in the league. So we, we get old fast. But having the number one overall pick there, I feel like this is going to be an interesting experience for you. And you get to be somebody that Bryce Young is going to lean on. Yeah, for sure. It's definitely going to be an experience that I'm going to have to lean on some of that past experience with when Teddy was drafted in the first round.

But at the same time, it's really exciting just because of how much talent he has and not only talent on the field and what he's proven in college, but just the amount of respect and love that he has from his teammates and past coaches of what type of person he is off the field and the leader he is. I just feel like, you know, that's a, that's a, an opportunity to have success at the next level. And, and I'm, I'm excited to be a part of, a part of his journey and I can't wait until he gets here. Yeah. I mean, I definitely think having an experienced receiver like yourself should be huge for a young quarterback, but obviously you're here to share our feelings about no longer

answering my questions in the locker room, which I'm sure you're here to share our feelings about no longer answering my questions in the locker room, which I'm sure you're very broken up about. But you know, when you think, when you think about your biking career, like I'm sure I know you, you don't sit, sit around and go, how about me? But you're always kind of next play next game, whatever. But now that it's onto the next chapter and you go to football reference and your name is right there with Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Anthony Carter, Jake Reed, as far as the top five receivers in receiving yards. I mean, I always think about like, of course, everyone talks about

you're from Minnesota. I don't know if anyone's heard that before, but you are. But like, what does that mean to you now that you've probably had some time to reflect a little bit on that, to have your name with the all-time receiver greats of the Minnesota Vikings? But what does that mean to you now that you've probably had some time to reflect a little bit on that, to have your name with the all-time receiver greats of the Minnesota Vikings? Well, I'm probably going to give you the same answer that I've given you for 10 years. But yeah, you know, honestly, everything's happened so fast. And I just have so much more to prove. And, you know, I got a whole new organization and staff to show what I can do on the field. And so I just haven't had time to even think about it.

And I think when I'm retired and I'm able to sit back and look at it, yeah, it'll be something that I'll look at. But right now I'm just trying to get better. And I enjoy so much every day waking up and having the opportunity to go to work and to get better. It's been really fun. And it's a whole different scenery. I mean, I'm, I'm practicing right now and I'm looking at downtown Charlotte. Uh, it's a lot different view than, than TCO performance center. So, um, you know, I, I think it's just been,

it's been really fun to just try to get better. And, you know, there's so many things that, that I want to work on and get better at. And I just feel like I still got a lot of ball left in me. So I got to go out there now and prove it every single day because these coaches, this organization hasn't seen me play football. So I got to go out there and give it my best every day. Okay, so you're always leaving the stats analysis

to the nerds like me. I get it, I get it. But I did want to talk to you about my experience covering you because when I first got here was 2016. And I remember a bunch of reporters talking to you and me thinking like, okay, you know, the Minnesota guy, all the reporters talked to him, but he only had a few catches last year, whatever. And it was really the Texans game in 2016, where you ran a double move on the guy, got the score touchdown from Bradford, where it sort of went, oh, this is like really legit.

And so then I did my classic, did you know Adam Thielen went to Mankato feature and everything else. You were very patient with me with that and ended up telling that story about 300 times in 2017. But I guess I wonder what you remember about finally reaching that point where like you were the guy, because it took so long to get there, like practice squads and special teams and all those things, kind of what that was like for you to have that big breakout game and show like I'm here. Well, first of all, that next day, my first son was born. So that's a game that

sticks out to me just because I'll never forget that. And my wife was ready to obviously ready to pop at any second during that game. And then, you know, to be able to play it, you know, have probably my first big game and then my son born the next day was a really cool memory um but yeah you know i i remember going into that season i believe that was the year that we went to um cincinnati as a um uh joint practice and i remember norv turner if i'm remembering if i'm remembering this right norv turner came up to me before that and said hey you better have a good week. Otherwise they're going to cut you.

And I'll never forget that because I just put on a different mindset that week in practice. And then in that game had a couple of big catches and really gave me the opportunity to play receiver. And then was able to kind of each week kind of get a bigger role by proving it on the field. And, you know, that experience I still take with me to this day.

And I've taken really every year of my career of, hey, you have to prove it every single day. And then when you do that, then you get more opportunity. And then you prove it some more, you get more opportunity. So, like I said, when I'm out there at the practice field right now, you know, every rep, I'm trying to prove something so, you get more opportunity. So like I said, when I'm out there at the practice field right now, every rep, I'm trying to prove something so that I get more opportunity and that I can help my teammates get better and ultimately help us win football games. Yeah, I feel like I learned a lot from you

about how people make it in this league. Not just as an undrafted free agent, but just in general, like how a first-round pick stays in this league. And one of those things is focusing on the future and maybe not spending too much time looking at your own accolades and things like that. But I also think too, that it's also route running, man. Like I would love to hear from you and you can tell me all your secrets now that you're with another team. I just would love to hear from you how you develop this because the Vikings drafted Jordan Addison. I'm sure you saw his thing is route running. And I feel like no matter what it is for your 40 or whatever else, the details of the route running is what separates guys who

make it and guys who don't. How did you master that craft over a couple of years to be ready for that opportunity when it came? Well, I mean, there's a lot of things. I think there's a lot of people that, that helped in that along, along the way, you know, whether you go back to high school, college, um, some of the coaches I've had, um, and then, and then just kind of their impact and helping me become a better receiver, a better, um, player, a better teammate. Um, and then, and then you kind of just learn from experience. You learn from trial and error and you learn from the guys next to you. One of our coaches said something that really stuck with me.

Um, he said, he said, the best, best teachers are the guys next to you because you get to watch them do it and you get to see what they did that worked and what they did that didn't work. And then you get to apply that to your game. And I guess I never thought of it like that before, but I thought it was a great point. And it's something I've done my whole career. I've watched guys, whether they were an undrafted guy,

a first-round pick, I've watched every rep of theirs, and I've said, hey, I like that. I'm going to use that in my game. Or, oh, maybe that's something that I need to take away from my game because that didn't work out that great. And so I continue to do that to this day. But, you know, I think it's funny when people start talking about route running. And I think a lot of young guys get this misconstrued is they think, oh, I got to be, you know, I got to be so detailed and precise on this route running.

But I think route running becomes an art and it becomes an art in the fact that you need to make everything look fast and the same. So every route, you know, with your stem, with your release, it's got to look the same as other routes. Otherwise it's just too easy for a defender to see you. And if you don't put speed on it, which I think guys don't understand, if you don't run full speed on every route, guys will just, they'll be able to sit on it, which I think guys don't understand. If you don't run full speed on every route, guys will just, they'll be able to sit on it and they'll know that you're not running deep and they know that you're, you're trying to set them up and things like that. So I just think that there, there is a little bit of art to it. And I think it's something that I, I really enjoy, you know, uh, like I said before, I, I get, I get excited to wake up in the morning. I'm,

I'm waking up before my alarm goes off in year 11 because I can't wait to go run routes on air in phase two of OTAs. And I love watching guys develop and see them getting better and then me being able to work on some things that I know I need to work on. It also seems like, too, that knowing the exact route depths is a thing that you almost like can't talk about enough because if you're off by even a little bit, it's just going to throw everything off. I am curious about your process, though. You're joining a new team, but you've gone through this a million times of, oh, the Vikings

have a new offensive coordinator. Maybe he resigned. Maybe he got another job. Hard to say. But you've gone through that a bunch of different times. I mean, what is that like to like learn a new offense, learn all those details, learn all those route depths. It seems like that must take forever. It does take, it does take a long time. Um, there's so many little details. Um, even today,

you know, run a route that I've run, um, you know, I don't know, 50 to a hundred times in a game and I did it a certain way and, and they kind of coached me up. And I say that to say every system, every coach likes the same route maybe that every team runs, but they like it run a little different. And at the end of the day, all that matters is that you, the offense coordinator, and the quarterback are on the same page. And so I have to adjust and run that route a little different than I've ever ran it before and had success running. But it doesn't matter if you're not on the same page.

So I now have to run that a little differently, and that's exciting for me. I really enjoy learning the little things, the why behind why coaches want it done a certain way. And that's really cool. It's been fun to learn a new offense, a new system. That's kind of a mix of some different systems I've been in. So it's been really fun. And then being around different quarterbacks, like I said, a quarterback might want you to do it a little bit differently. And kind of hearing their why behind that has been really fun. Yeah, I remember you talked about Teddy kind of helping you in 2017

understand Case Keenum's perspective to get on the same page with him. It's a fascinating art, man. And I can't say how much I appreciate all the years of you teaching us football, whether it's press conferences or you were our media good guy one year, but could have been every single year. Just always available, always interested in talking ball. So I always appreciate that. But I did want to ask you one more question about that.

It's just, what did we have wrong? You can tell me now. Who did we underrate? What were we wrong about as the media when you were covered? I'm sure you had some takes. Oh, man. Well, I don't know if I was answering your question, but I think everyone's been a little bit wrong about KJ.

I just think that he is a wide receiver one in this league, and I think that he has so much talent and so much, you know, I think his attitude, his effort, his, the way that he approaches every single day, his mindset is the one of the best I've ever been around and a great teammate, locker room guy, hardest worker every single day, cares so much about his teammates guy, hardest worker every single day, cares so much about his teammates and himself getting better every single day. I just think that he gets disrespected sometimes, and I don't think it's deservingly so, and I can't wait for him to have a big year.

I completely agree with you on that. So maybe I'm not wrong about that. But even his college coach, when he first got drafted said, do not doubt this guy. He's going to make the team. He's going to surprise everybody. And he was exactly right. So look, uh, you can still, they can ship you ambassador hot dogs, right? That you could still get them. I mean, I, I also want to say to ambassador hot dogs, can't tell them how much I appreciate over the years. We would always get to dig together, do one of these, talk about food and things like that. So it's cool that we could do

one more. But I guess you're going to, you're going to miss them or are you going to still get your hands on some ambassador hot dogs? Well, that's the great thing is, is I'll be back in Minnesota for the summer and there's no better time to have ambassador hot dogs than in the summer in Minnesota, you know, campfire season, grilling season. My boys like to, you know, throw them on the marshmallow sticks and roast them over the campfire, which brings back great memories

from being and growing up in northern Minnesota. So, you know, it's always great to represent a great Minnesota company that kind of embodies that Minnesota culture. And, you know, I might have a little grill out here in Charlotte

for the receivers, and I might bring back some ambassador hot dogs to kind of, you know, start that off the right way. So I'm excited about that. That's perfect. Thanks so much for doing this again, man. And just can't say enough. Best of luck to you and the family and everything else down there. I think it'll be very interesting to kind of watch from afar with the number one draft pick there as you guys kind of build around him. So best of luck, man, and appreciate everything through all the years, all the features you let us write about you, all the times that we bugged you about different football things. Just can't thank you enough for all that.

Thanks again, man. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate you, man. You've been awesome. I remembered when we started talking about this, this call, I remembered talking about the hot dogs last year and it was a, it was a pretty fun conversation. So I appreciate all you've done and, and excited to see, um, you cover the Vikings for a long time. So, uh, good luck with everything and, uh, go stop by Cub foods and get some ambassador hot dogs. All right. Get into one

more there. Uh, thanks again, Adam. Appreciate dogs. All right. Get into one more there. Thanks again, Adam. Appreciate it. All right. Thanks, man. All right. Now we welcome into the show from the star Tribune,

actually making his debut appearance here on purple insider. I don't know how it's taken so long, but it has a Mike Rand Rand ball. What is up, man? I I'm sorry. I feel like this is an oversight for us we've known each other we've shared locker rooms we followed each other on twitter but it just hasn't

come together so here we are how are you i'm good and i've never had you on my show either we're going to remedy that soon i hope to um so we'll we're correcting all these we're writing all these wrongs we're traveling back in time like quantum leap that we're going to write all the wrongs that we've, that we've had. You know what I think it was, you didn't have enough mock drafts. Like that was it. It's just like, if you had a few more mocks or if you had done some scouting reports or whatever, maybe you could have come on during the draft. Um, but so funny thing is both of us just finished up interviews with Adam Thielen on his hot dog tour. And I want to talk about that because on the episode, you're going right after him. So people just heard that interview.

And I want to ask you how difficult you think it will be to replace Adam Thielen because they drafted Jordan Addison to do this, but it's never a guarantee with a rookie. And I feel like last season is kind of weird with him. Like you look at the numbers and he had like 70 catches. So you can't say, oh, well, it was just completely washed and there was nothing there. And yet I feel like Jordan Addison comes in with expectations of taking it to a higher level. What is your take? Yeah, I think, I think the biggest thing is that addison is just a different kind of receiver than they seem like they've had here for a while right like they they try like you know quicker guys like

jalen rager kind of maybe can kind of be that guy but doesn't really seem like he's terribly trustworthy in in that role they just they haven't had a guy who kind of can, I feel like can operate out of the slot and be quick and can get, can get open quick. And that's, you know, I think Justin Jefferson's strength is always going to be kind of more of the, you know, just the precise route running the hands, just the strength, the combination, the whole package, but he's not a guy that tends to get open really quick. He's just, he's built not so much as a quick burst guy. Like ideally he's a kind of guy where the play needs, you know, a decent size pocket to unfold or a rollout or something where you're going to

buy a little time and you're making sure that he's kind of getting into his break and kind of getting that separation he needs. I think Thielen even at his best was probably kind of like that too, more of a precise route runner, you know, a guy who could get a step quick, but you know, was, was kind of more of that complete package. Like since, since they had Stefan Diggs, a guy who was a little bit, you know, smaller twitchier, and I wouldn't want to compare, compare Addison to Stefan Diggs yet. Cause that's, that's way too early for that. Diggs is obviously one of the best receivers in the league. And was that even when left um and was replaced ostensibly by by jefferson just like addison is essentially

replacing theelin but he did he gives them a different dimension i think at least and that's what that's what interests me like and i i kind of broke this down to the day and talked about it like i'm obsessed with that fourth and eight play still from the playoffs and a lot of us want to blame kirk cousins for throwing it short of the sticks. And we can do that. That was not the right decision. I don't know whatever the decision was, that wasn't the right decision, but I go back at it and I look and I say, man, they sure could have used someone like Jordan Addison on that play to get open quick. When you don't have a great offensive line, especially a great interior offensive line, having a guy operating out of the slot who can win a one

on one on one matchup quick, get out and get open in space. That is awfully valuable. So I'm interested to see how he fits into that offense. And we can't redo that play from last year, but if they ever come up on that play again this year, I would expect him to have an outsized role in maybe succeeding a little bit more than this year. The right answer is I don't care how many human beings are on Justin Jefferson. You throw it anyway. That would probably year the right answer is i don't care how many human beings are on justin jefferson you throw it anyway that would probably be the right answer but uh you know like you said if we could go back in time and change things in minnesota sports that probably doesn't even make like the top 35 um did you know steph curry could have been drafted by the wolves i had no idea no idea really only 14 years ago they had did you know they had two chances to draft him

and pass twice and they picked the same position amazing remarkable stuff that's happened here twice uh so i agree with you i think that there is one and yeah the digs comparison has come up even from him because they are from maryland and one of the differences uh stefan digs is like 20 pounds heavier coming into the league. And so that's something that really stuck out to me with Addison. And I think it's going to be kind of down to Kevin O'Connell to make sure that he is really putting in an effort to not get him lined up one-on-one with anybody at the line of scrimmage, that he's always moving, that he's always in the slot. But the get open factor is something that you just can't replace. And that was part of my conversation with Thielen is just that you can have guys who run four sixes or guys who run

four threes or tall dudes or short dudes. It's one of the only positions in the NFL where there's just this huge range of what people look like. Even quarterback, there's only a couple tiny guys. Most people are six, three to six, five in the league, but wide receiver, it's only a couple tiny guys. Most people are 6'3 to 6'5 in the league. But wide receiver, it's all over the map. And getting open is the thing that I think always is pervasive through all of that. But I don't want to go too much deeper into that because we've sort of beaten down the Jordan Addison and everything else. But I did want to stick on the Thielen part. I asked him about his sort of legacy in

minnesota and it's just not in his nature to talk too much about well yeah actually i think i'm just as good as chris carter or something that would not be adam feeling he wouldn't be the way he is and midway you know minnesota guy if you haven't heard humble yep um but you can talk about it. So I want to know, do you put Adam Thielen in the Mount Rushmore of Minnesota Vikings wide receivers? The Mount Rushmore. So that's, that's Mount Rushmore is four. Yes. So we're sticking to four. Um, that's a tough one. Cause I think Randy Moss is still, um, the head, the featured head on Mount Rushmore. Um, even, even if the, uh, even if the end of his first and second go arounds here did not necessarily go as, uh, as they might've liked, um, maybe helped get is already on that mountain because of just of how good he's been in these first three years in the league. And then we're talking about the final spot on that kind of pantheon. And do we put Stefan Diggs there? Do we put Adam Thielen there? Do we put someone from way back in the day, like an Ahmad Rashad or a Sammy White or something like that?

That's an interesting question. Having not thought about it too much, I probably put Phelan in that fourth spot just from the longevity standpoint, from the career numbers standpoint, from the fact that he was an all-pro. And you can't, at a certain point, ignore the story too, right? Like the fact that where he came from to what he became

does add a certain element of it you know just just the fact that he had to work so hard just to get a look and then becomes this type of player so I would put him I think I would put him on that Mount Rushmore I hope I'm not forgetting anybody but I think it goes Moss Carter Jefferson for now Jefferson probably moves into number two awfully soon it might be number one within about three or five years. And then Thielen is number four. Yeah, there's only there's only two spots available for about four or five people that are deserving. Anthony Carter, of course, on the yardage list for all time. Vikings is one ahead of Thielen. Thielen did have the all pro.

The story is part of that for sure. And then, you know, Jake Reed gets in this conversation too, because Jake Reed took the back seat to Chris Carter and Randy Moss. But before Randy Moss got there, there was one of the best wide receiver duos in the NFL. And then, yes, you can go back to your Sammy White's and your Ahmad Rashad's and so forth. The thing about Diggs, I mean, if it becomes a Diggs Thielen battle for the final spot, that's interesting too, because Diggs has the Minneapolis miracle.

So Thielen has the story, but Diggs has the literal biggest moment in this franchise is, I don't know if I want to say total history, but it's up there for that. And that's why I like the debate so much. I also think the Vikings have the best receiver history of any team in the nfl the fact that we're talking about is anthony carter who's fantastic even on a mount rushmore but that to me that is a really tight race between all of them for that position it is and i think i overlooked reed because just because he got he got overshadowed at the end of his career by Moss and what's interesting does speak to kind of the quality of the receivers they've had throughout time like it's always almost always been two of them at the same time like it's been Thielen and Diggs Thielen and Jefferson

Moss and Carter together like a lot of these guys worked in tandem and you know I think they're just as good even even without you know those guys being at their at their peak I think they're just as good even without those guys being at their peak. I think Jefferson showed that last year when I don't think there was a clear number two because I think Thielen had fallen enough last year where he was still good but was probably still just kind of an average receiver by last year, at least by a lot of advanced metrics. But in a lot of those years, it was two guys that were at that all-pro or close to all-pro and, you know, kind of

working off each other, still capable of doing it on their own, but, you know, working in tandem, um, man, it's really great that they were able to win so many Superbowls with those guys. Tough. You had to throw that there at the end, didn't you? Didn't you? I did. Well, it's, it's the waste of talent, um, relative to championships here is, is undeniable. There was a USA today article where Kweisi Daphomensa said that you win with great quarterbacks. So maybe that's been the connection. I don't know.

There's been a lot of good quarterbacks through here. So, okay, one more Adam Thielen one, because I feel like this is up your alley. Is he the all-time one of us story, or will no one ever top like Joe Maurer? I mean, who is the top Minnesota, Minnesota athlete? It's, you know, that's a pretty good Mount Rushmore right there. If we're going to stick with the Mount Rushmore theme, I think Thielen Thielen's rise from,

you know, division to obscurity to what was like a tryout camp, like a satellite tryout camp to, you know, that he had to pay for himself essentially to, to what he became. Maurer, obviously it's, it's kind of a, an off the charts story. Lindsay Whalen is certainly in that, in that mix, but we've had, you know, like Paul Molitor, Dave Winfield. I mean, these guys made the baseball hall of fame. They both played for the twins later in their careers. They were multi-sport athletes. They played for the Gophers. They went to college world series with the Gophers. Like there are a lot of quintessential one of us stories, but if we're, maybe if we're kind of limiting, limiting it to like my kind of, my kind of scope of memory and what I remember and not just what I've heard of. I think Maurer is still number one

just because of just, he's still, you know, he's going to be, he's probably going to be a Hall of Famer someday and maybe as soon as next year. And, you know, Waylon already is a Hall of Famer. She's very close to being number two. I just feel like Maurer being the number one overall pick in that draft being, you know, hot know hot so so so much at the forefront for for that franchise Thielen's in that top four though for sure I don't know who I would put number four I mean guy like Glenn Perkins is another good example there's we have a lot of those stories here we do not do we not yeah I think that I mean of course at least from the time that I've been here Maurer and Whalen stand kind of way, way above being hall of fame level talents where Thielen is an,

is a notch below, but you know, Maurer and Whalen were top draft picks. And so they don't have that like the iron range grid or whatever we call it. I do people call it that probably not, but you know, they, they don't, you know, that like underdog whole thing, it kind of adds to his lore that might kind of push him up a little bit there. And then there's certainly some more that are on the way to potentially being there. But I think that's that's like part of his thing that we've we have made fun of it so much because every Sunday on every broadcast, it was like, you'll never believe this guy's story.

And it's like he's 31. OK, like, stop. We heard enough. Um, but it will never stop being an unbelievable story. And he was even talking about how he was a couple practices away from being cut in 2016 and they drafted Laquan Treadwell. Treadwell doesn't work out. He ends up, you know, being this amazing story. So obviously, you know, guys like us who had him on shows cover of him. Uh, he's always been so great to the Minnesota media. Same thing with someone like Lindsay

Whalen, who's always been available through the years and everything else. So that's, uh, we, we appreciate how, um, polite they are in their Minnesota goodbye. I mean, what a Minnesota goodbye for him to come on our podcasts. I mean, wow. like i didn't even think of that um okay so let's talk about the quarterback did you just you didn't just say that detroit lakes is part of the iron range right i don't know i was just like reaching it's not part of the iron i don't even know where the iron range is but i was just okay well if the iron range is north detroit lakes is more like west and a little bit north so it that's that's not part of the iron just just for point of clarity i don't want you i don't want you to get a lot of undeserved like emails or tweets to say

collar you don't know where the iron range is this is detroit lakes is nowhere close to the iron range just so you know no it's actually true that i did not know the specifics of it i always just thought like north and detroit lakes ish north so i don't know yeah whatever it's north of it's north of here but it's North of here, but it's yeah. I'll draw you, I'll draw you a map. I'll draw you a Microsoft paint map someday and post it on Twitter. It was a compliment to the gritty iron range underrated people there. So anyway, the ethic is true. The ethic is true. I moved to Burnsville and then to just outside Minneapolis. And I have not looked anywhere else since i got

here um and i know i know the one restaurant in egan so that's it that's that's my entirety of understanding minnesota geography um but and i know how to get to taco bell but let me let me ask you about the quarterback situation so i don't continue saying things like this um so kirk cousins comes today and he says i I've always been underrated. I've never had anyone believe in me. I've never really known about the future, which is absolutely true. I mean, there's many seasons he's gone into and I've always respected his ability to put the horse blinders on.

But what did you make of Kweisi Adafomensa leaving the door open to a contract extension with Kirk, who of course said, yes, he wants to be in Minnesota long term. What did you make of thatweisi Adafomensa leaving the door open to a contract extension with Kirk, who of course said, yes, he wants to be in Minnesota long-term. What did you make of that? I mean, I think they have to at this point, because they, you know, when they restructured or, you know, did what they did this off season before the draft, where they left it possible that this would be his last year, where he's ostensibly a free agent next year, they tilted things one way, right? And then the draft comes and goes,

and they didn't draft his replacement, right? They drafted Jaron Hall in the fifth round. That's not a Kirk Cousins replacement. That's maybe a Nick Mullins replacement someday. And maybe if something wild happens and he's way better than we can imagine, maybe that's something that develops. But that's not a move for 2024. Now, I't, so I don't think, I don't think you make a decision until you have to, right? That's kind of what I, that's what a smart personnel person does. That's what,

that's what Casey does. You don't, you don't close the door on anything. You don't, you know, say definitively something until you have to, you don't, you don't say you're moving on from him. You don't say this is definitely what we're doing because then you lose leverage. Then everybody knows you're desperate for a quarterback or you've got to have a different plan for 2024. So kind of where they are right now is in a spot probably where they see where they are. They see what the options are. They see how 2023 plays out. And if I'm going to guess, I'm going to say it's going gonna play out in some fashion similar to 2018 through 2021 and not so much 2022 the outlier where they won what 11 games by 11 and 0 until the playoffs uh by by one score or fewer and it's gonna be kind of like eh uh that was good um but not great

uh we had a chance to make the playoffs or we made it as a low seed. I'm talking as the Vikings, not as the Royal we. And now what do we do? Now we're kind of stuck in the same place we've been for most of Kirk Cousins' tenure. And I think at that point, someone's got to decide at a certain point and say, you know what? He's good, but he's not great. He's probably the 12th best quarterback in the NFL, and that's nothing that you should turn your nose up at. But at a certain point, if you aspire to win a Super Bowl and you have the roster they have right now, which has a lot of holes and needs a lot of help on defense, Kirk Cousins' window of being above average does not line up with your window of

being a Super Bowl contender potentially. So I think at some point you've got to move on from that. What I'd be curious about is if they get to next year and it's like February and it's like Kirk is kind of taking the temperature, his people are kind of taking the temperature of the market and realizing that nobody's really interested in a long-term deal with him maybe at that point, then could they come back and do one more year to kind of buy that bridge instead of having to go get a bridge quarterback? Could Kirk Cousins be that bridge? I don't know if he'd be interested in that. I don't know if the Vikings would be interested in that. I think what he wants is one more multi-year deal. And I just don't think the Vikings want to do that. So that to me is kind of where they're at. I don't think the Vikings want to do that. So that to me is kind

of where they're at. I don't think a lot of that changes other than the fact that they had an opportunity to draft his replacement. If Anthony Richardson would have fallen further, I think they would have done that. They would have made a move up. Levis, if they liked Will Levis, if they liked Hendon Hooker, those guys were available to them. They did not do that. So they showed they're not just going to draft anybody to be his replacement. But I don't think that precludes them from picking somebody else soon or moving on from Cousins as early as next year. Yeah.

You know, what's funny about that is we talk about projecting next year. I mean, we've actually, I think, been OK at it through the years. But last year, I don't think we were because no one expected all those one score games to turn into wins match click. Right. And so last year, a lot of us said like, oh, this is probably a 10 win team. I think I predict him at 10. I thought they were a good football team, but I did not expect it to get to 13. But I think that this is a pretty safe pick to say eight or nine or 10 in that ballpark based on just what they've been before. But I, I was thinking of a scenario where they win 12 games and the lions are the lions and

whatever. And Jordan loves stinks and whatever, right? It's possible. It's in the realm of possibility. A few quarterback injuries that you get to face along the way. It's still probably wouldn't be a good idea to extend Kirk at that point because of the age factor and the price factor after that, assuming you didn't win the Super Bowl. It's like if Joe Flacco, I remember this is the only situation where I could think where this really happened with a similar quarterback. Joe Flacco was a free agent the following season after he won the Super Bowl. And they, of course, signed him to some Mongo insane contract and it never worked out for

them, not even really close. So it's like almost no matter what happens, when we're talking about a guy who would be 37 through 40 in a long term contract extension, it doesn't even make sense if you're great. Which kind of leads me to another question. I wrote a little about this today. Just about should they like try to make more cap space and sign free agents here because the list of free agents is pretty good like leonard floyd is out there marcus peters i mean these are guys who could make a difference but if they don't because i assume they're going to make some cap space with delvin or zadarius or whatever but if they don't sign players and they say no no

we want to see a caleb evans we want to see and Andrew Ruth Jr. Is that kind of a sign that they just view this as a transition year as opposed to another one of those all-ins like they were kind of doing the last few years? I think it's been pointed to that for a while, and that's part of what has been interesting to me to watch this offseason. They've not really done much to position themselves to be super competitive this year. right? Like I think they realize that they've got a lot of overhauling to do on the defense and they need to figure out what they've

got in some of these guys. I think the offense is still going to be very good. And I think that's going to help them win games. And that's part of the problem almost is that if you want to draft your quarterback of the future, Kirk Cousins isn't the guy that's going to help you get a top five pick. He's good enough that you're probably never going to fall below the teens in a draft pick in any kind of draft scenario. So there's that. The offense is going to be good enough to keep you competitive in a lot of games this season. So I guess if your question is, should they do more to try to win now you know potentially um but i think a lot of it is this kind of is kind of depends on what how you view this year kind of what where you're

comfortable kind of taking the the pain of of some of these cap hits and like you know let's be honest like next year you even if you moved on from cousins you're talking about 29 million dollars of dead cap space like that, that's money you can't use. Obviously if you had a rookie quarterback that would mitigate some of that. And then you still have three or four years of, of pretty, you know, pretty low cost quarterback play where you're talking about that's our window to compete. Um, but you know, it kind of depends on how they view their opportunity this year. Like, but I think no matter how you looked at it right now, like would,

even if they made two or three interesting moves, is this a team that could compete for a Superbowl next year? Like, I just don't, I don't think so. I don't even know, even an open NFC. I don't see this as a Superbowl contender.

I would have to see, I think evidence that they could be a much better offense. I think they can be a better offense, but I was just looking at this. It's funny about last year, they were behind the number one team in scoring. They were 72 points behind. I think I just look quick and they were only 70 points ahead of 19. Like the difference between when you say you're like a top 10 offense, that doesn't necessarily mean you're a Superbowl competing offenses. This has sort of long been their problem where it's always sort of good. But when you think about being two and a half full games away of points away from the team

that's at the top and going to the Super Bowl, how are you going to make up those points? And I'm sure that my listeners have heard me talk about this every offseason of just where are these points coming from? A rookie wide receiver is really the only change on offense. Maybe there'll be more efficient in the run game because they're putting emphasis on it and they're not handing it to a guy who was dealing with a shoulder injury the entire season. But I don't think you change who's operating it and the ceiling that sort of exists there, which kind of leads me to, I guess the only reason to do this whole thing, like kind of go for it, kind of win the division, but also kind of try to learn what you have is really to make sure

Justin Jefferson is happy because if that man is not happy, then you might not keep him. But if he wasn't here, I think they would be talking about having already moved on from cousins, potentially starting Nick Mullins or whoever free agent they signed or something like that. It's amazing how one man and his unreal talent can kind of dictate where this team is and how they have to handle their timeline. Yeah, that's a good point. Cause I think you do have to make Jefferson health, have to make Jefferson happy. Right. And he's, you know, an extension for him sooner rather than later has got to be a priority. They don't need to see any more that we know how good he is, like whatever they can do to make sure he is happy and secured for the long term has got to be priority number one. But you're right, if he's not, if he wasn't here, if they didn't have a receiver of that caliber, first of all,

they wouldn't have won 13 games last season. So it might be a moot point. But second of all, if he wasn't here, let's just remove him from the decision-making equation. Yeah. You could have made a much different quarterback decision right now. You could have just, you know, taken a lot of the pain right away and just said, you know what, let's, let's, you know, let's definitively move on and, and, and, you know, try to usher in a new era and try to get better in a certain way. But yeah, he, he does control a lot of this, at least until he's signed, because you've, you've got to make sure that, you know, if he's, you don't want to just give him any old quarterback and then his numbers go down and then he's not

happy and they're not winning at all. Like you want him putting up his numbers. You want him feeling like there's a chance to make the playoffs. Um, and then, you know, once that's determined, as long as he's in on the plan and feels like, okay, this team's going to go get the quarterback of the future. It might mean a year of, you know, kind of growing pains a little bit, but, but I see the big vision picture, something like that. That's a lot easier to do if the long-term has already been taken care of. Okay. Last thing just strikes me. I can't really figure out if this team is interesting for this year or not because of what we were just talking about. Is it a purgatory team that no one outside of here is going to care about, or does it have the potential to go so many different ways that it's going to be

very, very interesting? Because last year I went into it thinking they were kind of that, but I wasn't sure because it was a new head coach, a lot of new players last year. I think there were like 21 new players last year. There's going to be quite a few this year. We don't have our Eric Hendricks, Adam Thielen, but there's also still enough of all the stuff that was there before. I guess I'm, I'm a wavering on it. Like if they bring back, if they find a way to bring back to Neil Hunter's Darius Smith, I will probably think this is a pretty competitive team and it could be an interesting season but it probably ends the same way but if they don't i think i become more intrigued of like there's a lot of players who i just don't know what's there and i'm kind of excited to see it but i think a

lot of it rests on what's still to happen here i I agree. I thought last year had a high level of unpredictability and volatility just because of the new head coaching staff. I picked them to win seven games last year. I didn't think they were going to be very good last year. I thought that that was just going to be not because I didn't think O'Connell was a good coach. I just thought that there was going to be a year of transition and it ended up being less of a year of transition last year. They did some things differently, but a lot of the players were the same. They extracted a little bit more from some of them and they just won games close. They made plays in the fourth quarter and you can say that's a culture thing, or you can say that

was a statistical outlier and it's probably a little bit of both. I don't think they're going to do that again this year. So I don't think I would pick them necessarily to be a seven and 10 team, but I think they do, like you said, become more interesting. If there are fewer known commodities, there are the probably the more interesting they are because seasons that have the potential for volatility, where you just don't know what players will do when given certain opportunities, those are interesting. They might turn out to be bad, like a season where you could see them finishing anywhere between, you know, five and 12 and 12 and five would be pretty interesting. Um, as opposed to, uh, anywhere between, you know, eight and nine and 10 and seven, that's not that interesting. That's maybe more comfortable. That's maybe

more comfortable for a second year head coach, but it's not as interesting when there's not as much variance and Vikings fans have been beaten over the head with eight and nine or previously, you know, nine and seven and 10 and six type of seasons. I think, I think it's TBD. I think that if you start off a season slow where your quarterback isn't signed and we start talking about like, could they trade him? And could, you know, all these things that could kind of go on that could develop themselves or cousins could be doing a you

like that to quesia da fomenta every time he walks off the field he did that before it see that you like that was famous but there was another one where it was how do you like me now to bruce allen i think who had intentionally called him kurt for uh several years because he didn't they didn't get along so uh anyway you know you never know there is when there's a tense situation with a contract and we saw this with digs, not over a contract, but an offensive, you know, scheme issue, there's always the potential for the turning into a powder keg. So I think, I think potentially interesting is kind of where I want to land on that. So, but let's, as we go along, let's, let's do this more often. Let's get together from time to time on the show.

Love having you on. And, um, you know, we can break down all these things like more Minnesota geography, like you teaching me where things actually are. I would be happy to do that as always. It was a pleasure to be on your show and I look forward to having you on a, on daily delivery soon. Awesome. Sounds good.

Follow him at Rand ball. I know you already do though, on Twitter, Mike ran, appreciate it mike ran appreciate it man and uh we will talk to y'all again soon all right sounds good matthew