Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Adam Thielen joins to talk about receiver duos and the mentality that keeps him at the top

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

Matthew Coller is joined by Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Adam Thielen to talk about the upcoming season. Adam talks about why he's improved as a receiver because of the other great players (i.e. Stefon Diggs and Justin Jefferson) that he's been able to play alongside as well as discussing when he realized he had a killer mentality and why the Kubiak style offense is so successful. In the second half of the episode, Brandon Thorn of Trench Warfare breaks down his top 50 players in the trenches, where Danielle Hunter ranks and why the Vikings have a really tough schedule of defensive linemen to match up against. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All right, now we welcome into the show his first appearance on the podcast version used to sometimes come on the old show. Adam Thielen. What's up, Adam? How are you, man? Glad to be back with you. And I'm glad to have you here. And you are here to talk about snacks in part. So we're going to get to that because I'm very pro snacks. So we're going to discuss that in a minute. But I want to get into some training camp stuff and preview the season with you but i also want to try to ask you questions that no one is asking you on your snack tour so let me i like that all right so let me start with this one i've been thinking about

this uh you grew up around the same time i grew up watching the nfl and keenan mccardle how weird is it to have keenan m McArdle as your receivers coach, but also a guy who was part of one of the great duos of an era as you have been? Yeah, it's not weird at all because it's fantastic. What a great opportunity to pick his brain of longevity, of having that duo that he had. There's so many things that I can pick his brain of, you know, for and to help me and to prolong my career. So I'm very thankful for the opportunity and, you know, to have a guy who's not only coached the game,

but also played it at a high level is unique and excited about it. Are you more of a McArdle or a Jimmy Smith? Do you consider yourself a McArdle or Jimmy Smith? This sounds like one of those old magazine questionnaires or something. Oh, shoot. You're putting me on the spot with that one. Coach would probably say I'm more like him, but I don't know. I'll have to go watch a bunch of tape.

That's actually probably a project of mine in training camp. I'm going to watch some tape of both those guys. Yeah brunell fred taylor tony basselli those teams were pretty great now i'm sure you get asked about the receiver duo thing all the time i want to i want to ask it this way though to be different as i said uh you have been a part of what is considered the best receiver duo now twice how does that make you better to be with someone who is equally as good as you and be able to play off them first with digs and now with Justin Jefferson, like how has that made you a better player? Well, I think, I think you know, the way that I would go with that is,

is you know, I think it's the competitive nature. I think the competitiveness of both of those guys has pushed me to become a better player because we're extremely hard on each other. We want the best for each other. So we're not afraid to say, hey, you could have done this better or done that better. And holding each other accountable. Both those guys love the game of football. And when you're around guys that love the game of football,

they love to practice. They love to make plays and to run good routes. It only can make you better and more precise with what you're doing. So I'm very thankful for those guys and a lot of other guys I've played with because they've really helped me shape my game. And another thing is taking what they do well and trying to put it in your game. I try to steal things from both those guys and to make it into my own. You know, I was thinking about this and sort of your mindset and the other guys that you've worked with, with Diggs and Jefferson. And I was listening to Giannis Antetokounmpo talk after he won the

championship. And one day later he was saying, well, you know, I still got some things that I want to get better at, which is always fascinating to me. And maybe you could speak to this. I know you're a big basketball guy too, is the mindset that you've taken throughout your career has always been, let me take the next step. After you had your breakout season in 2016, you took the next step after that. And even last year, you set your career high in touchdowns. It always seems like there's another level to that. I guess I wonder if you quickly spot that in other people and if that is sort of the driver of what you've become as an NFL player. Yeah, definitely spot that in other people. I think what I call it, I'm sure a lot of people call it this,

but it's that dog mentality. It's that kind of that bite in you in you, that it's that a chip on your shoulder. Um, I was actually playing in the, in the pro-am yesterday at the 3M open. And I was talking to a couple of the pros out there, uh, about that. And, and some of these guys, they just have something that's a little bit different. Um, and that, that chip on their shoulder, that dog, whatever you want to call it, they got it. And, uh, I think when you have that, all you want to do is to improve. And you know what your weaknesses are. You know what you could do better.

And all you want to do is to gain on that and on the positive as well. You know what you do well, and you just want to get even better at that. So I think it's a trait that's extremely important that gets overlooked a lot in the recruiting process or the scouting process, but it is so important. Are you like that with everything or do you have things that you admit that you're not good at and don't care? I was telling you before we started recording that I'm just not good at golf, but I just enjoy it. It's a nice walk. It's, you know, whatever, but I'll never be as good as you and you'll never be as good as those pros. I wonder if you take the same approach to other things in your life,

even like something like golf. I do. And it's, it's probably a weakness of mine because I can't just go on the golf course and have fun. I am so competitive within myself that every time I go out there, I think I'm a PGA tour pro until maybe the third hole. And, and then my ADD kicks in and I'm, I'm a, I'm a below average golfer. So, um, but no, it's, uh, it's definitely kind of just ingrained in me. Uh, whatever I do, I, I, I tend to, um, have to practice and have to

get really good at it because otherwise it drives me nuts. What's the downfall to your golf game? Consistency. Like I said, that ADD kicks in and I lose focus. I started having these conversations. I forget I'm actually playing golf and, and it's like double double right then, you know, it's like, okay, wait a second. I wasn't even like watching the ball there. Like what am I doing? But but like I said, I love the game and I'm striving to get really good at it. I'm trying my hardest. OK, so I want to ask you about Clint Kubiak.

And again, in my attempt to ask it in a way that no one else has asked it about the offense and a new offensive coordinator. What is has Clint taken any of Gary's sort of Gary isms? Because when he talks to us, he'll say, oh, that's a great question. And that's that's a Gary thing. So he could think of an answer sort of thing. And to be polite as Gary was. So what what Gary isms has Clint Kubiak taken? That's a yeah, I almost said it. I almost said the Gary-ism right there. That's a great question.

That's a good question. But you put that in my head. Yeah, there's definitely things. I can't really think of them right now, but we laugh. Like, it's kind of like a little chuckle when we hear some of the things that we're like, oh, boy, that's your dad right there. And he knows it, too, so he's got a little smirk on his face, but, but no, he does a great job of, of yeah, he, he knows his dad had a lot of success.

And he knows that that offense has done great things. And, and so he knows that he doesn't want to change it. Right. But, but there's things that he has picked up over the years. You know, he's been in different offenses. He's been on different teams. He's been a defensive guy in the past. So there's things that he sees a little differently and has changed and tweaked, which I think is exciting for us. You know, we didn't want him to just come in and be his dad,

which, I mean, obviously, I love his dad to death, and he did great things. But we want him to be Clint, and we want him to do what he does best. And so we're excited about that. Why do you think this offense is sort of, I don't want to say taken over the NFL, but there's so many teams that run it. Tennessee and Ryan Tannehill's had a lot of success there. Kyle Shanahan went to a Super Bowl with it.

Sean McVay, some sort of version of it. It just, it seems like it's becoming proven, and then it's how much you can add to it. And I didn't even mention Kevin Stefanski is also had success in Cleveland. Like why, why do you think those similar types of offenses tend to work? Well, everything just pairs so well together, right? Your run game, your past game, your play action stuff, it all pairs together. It all looks the same. It acts the same running routes. You know,

we're running routes that look the same. They act the same and they're different routes and they break at different points. And one could be a deep ball. One could be a short one. You know, everything kind of looks, looks, uh, this looks very similar, acts very similar. Um, and it's a fun offense to be a part of because there's so many variations, so many things you can do off, off of it, uh, is where it gets exciting and creative. So, um, it's been really fun to learn and to kind of embrace and to grow within it, you know, going on year three in this offense. So, again, excited about the opportunity of the growth of this offense and this team and this offense together.

I'm calling them on the show the training camp scaries because reporters, we love being out there. But there's also like a lot to cover and a lot to do and hopefully not a lot of Zoom calls this year. But that tends to be a thing, too. How are you feeling as we get into the final days here of summer? Just excited, you know, just excited to get back. You know, obviously, I like my time time off and being my family, but just excited to play football again. You know, that's what I really love to do and, and get around the guys, right? When you have a great locker room, you just can't wait to see the guys and you forget, you know, you take advantage of it during the season because you're around them every day and you don't really

think much of it. And then all of a sudden, boom, season's over. You're like, wait a second. I, now I can't talk to you guys and see you guys every single day. Uh, it's, it's, uh, it's kind of a weird deal, but excited to get back and get back after it. When did you realize there was that feeling for you in your NFL career? Because we see this all the time where guys come in and the first couple of days of camp, they're like, Oh yeah, let's go whatever. And by the third week, it's pretty clear that they're not going to have a long career at this and not because they don't have the talent necessarily. Right. But sometimes just because they don't have the dog in them or they don't have the passion. Did you realize that right away when you started in the NFL or did that sort of take a while for you? Well, maybe to my fault, I I'm a pretty confident guy and maybe a little bit oblivious to reality sometimes.

So I thought right away I could do this. I could play in this league. I can play at a high level. And I guess I never really thought differently. But when I look back at it, it almost like makes me nervous because I'm like, man, like if I would have, you know, had a bad practice or or, you know, maybe dropped the ball in a game, a preseason game or or, you know, just had a run of bad plays, it's like I could be out of the league. But when I was in the moment, I wasn't even thinking about I was like, I'm going to make this team. I'm going to play well and and have success. So it's kind of crazy looking back at it. OK, I'm going to ask you about your workouts and your snacks in a second, but I'm going to tell you my favorite quote that you've ever told me for a story because it relates to this. So I was doing a story about you, the high school basketball player once. And I interviewed you coach and all that sort of stuff. And I said like, Hey, how do you think it would have worked

out if you had stuck with basketball? You wouldn't have been in the NBA. Right. And you were like, I might've, which I thought was great because you wouldn't have, but the fact that you were kind of irritated with me for suggesting that was great. It was a great part of the story. Well, if you talk to any of the guys I train with, they, uh, they'll tell you that I'm a little, I'm a little delusional because I feel like I could – if you put me in an NBA game, first of all, you got to give me a whole year to train just for basketball. Like that's all I'm doing for a whole year. And then you can't like – I can't like have to like make the team, right?

Like it's just like, no, I'm on the team. I'm going to play in a game. Like I think I can hold my own. But it might be a little bit delusional. I won't tell the real NBA players that you said that. Yeah, but it might be a little bit delusional. I won't tell the real NBA players that you said. Yeah, don't tell them. They get sensitive about that. I know.

Okay, the workouts. I know that you are a huge workout guy. You're even starting a workout podcast, which is very cool. Very pro podcast here. Tell me where Gone Rogue Snacks fits into that. Because when I saw Adam Thielen wants to talk about snacks, I was like, let's go, let's talk snacks. Well, I'm, I'm a big snacker. So, uh,

and that's where this relationship just fits so perfectly because, um, you know, instead of grabbing, you know, junk food, you know, stuff that, uh, you know, isn't great for you, sugar, all that, um, you know, having that option, that's a quick, easy option and can be so, you know isn't great for you sugar all that um you know having that option that's a quick easy option and can be so you know you can use it in so many different ways whether it's post-workout whether it's you know your your busy day you're going on the golf course you can grab these you know turkey bites a bunch of great flavors uh nashville hot's my favorite little spice so it's pretty good uh but uh yeah just the the quick easy grab and go and

then and then my favorite way to use it is at night you know when you're sitting there watching a tv show all the kids are in bed uh instead of grabbing something that's not great for you uh a bowl of ice cream or something you grab these turkey bites they're great flavor they're good for you and you feel a little bit better about yourself especially when uh your your body is your your livelihood as mine is. So yeah, it's great. And, and, and you can get them at Hy-Vee, which is great. Gone rogue snacks. Now the the, the element of it, of taking care of your body though, I feel like even over since the time I started covering the NFL, that's what everybody talks

about. Like, if you want to be in this league, this is what you have to do. Like you really have to pay attention to that stuff. And I feel like that's just continued. So I guess you've got the perfect snack with gone rogue snacks to be able to do that. But I think that's really interesting just that everybody talks about that first. Like, how do you make it in the league? We'll take care of your body first. Yeah, I have a little bit of an issue with that. Um, I, I think it's a little bit overdone. Yeah, I have a little bit of an issue with that. I think it's a little bit overdone. I think it's such a broad thing to say, right? Like, take care of your body. Well, it's like, well, how do I take care of my body? Like, what does that even mean? And as you know, going on year nine in this league, I figured out a good system for me. Everybody has different things

that they like to do. But I think it really comes down to preparation, right? Like how do you train your body to be prepared for the season? And that goes nutritionally, mentally, physically. And I think that gets a lot misconstrued a lot is guys are like, oh, I got to take care of my body. It's like in season, I got to do this and this and this. It's like, well, that stuff is important and it helps. But I think the most important time is leading up to training camp, your off season training and nutrition and how you take care of your body.

Very interesting stuff. Well, um, I'm sure that I will enjoy these, but I also am going to mix in far more potato chips than you will. So I'll, I'll be, I'll be looking my usual way, which is not, well, they do have, they do have chips too. So maybe that could be the option. Okay. And they're healthy chips, protein chips. Okay. All right. I guess I'll have to consider it. Maybe, maybe that's the key. Maybe that's the key to the golf game is cutting out the greasy chips and adding some more healthy ones. adam thielen as always great to catch up with you here really appreciate your time and i am hopeful that you and i will see each other in a face-to-face conversation very soon oh we will see you soon take care man all right thank you hey guys i know we have all had this conversation at home

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Hey, everyone. Training camp is on the way. Fans are going to be back in the stands, so you've got to be ready with all your Minnesota football gear. That's why you have to check out Soda Stick. There are so many designs that you can get on hats and t-shirts, including the John Randall design, which is extremely cool. There is also the straight cash homie, Randy Moss homage that can't stop the Thielen hats and a personal favorite, the old video game

designs that Tecmo fans will appreciate. Check it all out at SodaStick.com. That is S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Everything's screen printed here in Minnesota. And I can tell you the shirts are comfortable and they last a long time because at this point, half of my closet is SodaStick, to be honest. Again, that is SodaStick.com, Minnesota sports inspired goods. Keep your eye out also for our soda stick giveaways. Joining me from Trench Warfare, formerly known on the show as the O-line guy, but also we're going to talk a lot of D-line as well. Brandon Thorne, what is up, buddy? How are you? Doing great, man. Excited to do this and just, you know, the excitement for the season is getting here. yeah man i'm just

i'm looking forward to it so funny story you and i when we first started talking i think was probably 2017 when i kind of read some of your work and enjoyed it and i remember we did an article on pat elfline together and then when you and i first talked you were just getting involved with the o-line masterminds event with duke manyweather who is the trainer to the offensive line stars and now brandon i see this uh event all over the place i see lots of media covering it and nfl films features and i see duke's following has gone up and he's getting a lot of recognition for all the linemen that he's working with. And, of course, Jeff Shorts doing his show with Duke. Very cool that you were in at the very beginning working with Duke on that event.

And I think it's awesome how far it's grown from there. Yeah, thanks, man. It's been exciting. You know, this is the fourth year in a row uh that we've had the event and you know just duke posted something right after this this one of all four pictures because we get together at the end and take a picture of the whole group and it's just it's pretty cool to look back and see how much it's grown because that uh 2017 or 2018 photo um you know there was like 30 of us or so and now there was you know this year close to like 150 um so yeah it was it's awesome man i mean it's growing it's something that we thought would grow um and now you're seeing other positions do it as well um you know tight ends you

know like for instance they just had one with with Kelsey and Kittle that they put on. So, yeah, next year will be year five of it, and we're really excited about that already. But it was cool this year because we got to get some more, like, veterans in there, like a retired guy. Olin Kruitz was there. He talked to the group quite a bit, which was very cool. Ben Grubbs was there.

He got to talk to the group quite a bit and some other guys as well so you know mixing in kind of that older generation you know mid 2000s you know with some of the guys now and just hearing the different perspectives and you know it's just

so cool man I mean if you know doing what I do getting to go to something like that it's like you know like a dream convention type thing you know it's just awesome I, man. I mean, if you, you know, doing what I do getting to go to something like that, it's like, you know, like a dream convention type thing, you know, I learned so much every time and it's just cool to be there. Yeah. And I think that from your perspective of essentially kind of in a way reporting on it with trench warfare, your sub stack, um, that I follow along with, and we're going to talk about your latest thing. It is having an outside kind of perspective to see what you're writing about it and what

you're writing about. So many of the different linemen has offered just so much more insight into the NFL that I think even 10 years ago, we didn't really have. So it's cool to see the event growing where all these linemen get together, talk about what they could do better to stop the world's best pass rushers. And, uh, that's what we're going to talk about that and of course offensive line as well but you ranked your top 50 trench players going into 2021 which i think is a great idea and i'm just going to go through some of the guys on the list we're going to talk about them and we'll get to where daniel hunter ranks but something is

stuck out to me brandon it's that a lot of your defensive players are on the vikings schedule this year and i know it's not till a little later in the schedule that the vikings play the rams but one thing i feel like we never talk about is aaron donald and how great he is i think everyone just goes like aaron donald man unbelievable and then like that's the only opinion but what's great about your site is how in-depth you go with these guys and aaron donald man unbelievable and then like that's the only opinion but what's great about your site is how in-depth you go with these guys and aaron donald is number one on your list he'll play the vikings like what can you say about what aaron donald has done in his career because i feel like there are only about five guys in the history of the nfl who have been this level of dominant as aaron donald year in and year out and i I'm almost like, do we fully appreciate this man's greatness?

Probably not, but it's close. Thankfully, I think with the social media environment that we have, like, you know, I see quite a bit of recognition and love for him out there, you know, and I think which so, but even so, I still don't know if people quite realize how unique he is. And, you know, he's like on the level of Reggie White, Lawrence Taylor, you know, he's like right there with those guys, you know, in the all-time, like, lexicon of, you know,

all-time great defensive linemen, pass rushers. You know, like J.J. Watt's run, you know, from 2012 to 2015, I think it was, was on his level. But now Donald, he's showing no signs of slowing down. He doesn't have the major injuries that Watt did that slowed him down a little bit. It kind of took him off that pace. Last year, we saw him dinged up a little bit. Toward the last game of the year in the playoffs, he wasn't himself clearly.

And the whole defense just kind of didn't look the same. Yeah, his presence is just, he's head and shoulders, I think, just, you know, that's why I have him in his own tier in my article. He's just the best guy in the trenches, period. You know, he has, I think, six consecutive first-team all-pro selections, and, you know, that's warranted. Three defensive player of the years, and that's warranted. Three Defensive Player of the Year's. I think he's got to be the odds-on favorite to win it again this year.

There's no signs of slowing down with him, really. He's going to be 30 years old week one. We're witnessing a definite first-valid Hall of Famer approaching the end of the last couple years of his prime, I think, but still, you know, as good as it's ever been. What's so fascinating to me is that when you see certain players in the NFL up close, you go, Oh my God, I've never seen anything like that. Julio Jones is one of them where he walks out in the field.

You're up in the press box. You're like, come on. That is not Julio Jones. That is, that's a basketball player, right? He's so massive compared to the corners that it's almost hilarious. I wouldn't have known which guy was Aaron Donald. And I know he's jacked, but a lot of guys are jacked six, one to 80. When he was, when I saw him in person out in Los Angeles, uh, or even in 2017 and then out in Los Angeles, 2018, it just did not blow me away. Uh, looking at him and you wouldn't have even been able to tell which guy was the all time. Great. Which I think makes it so interesting that he is incredibly dominant like this. So if you vikings and you've got ezra cleveland and wyatt davis and garrett bradbury going up against this man why is it so impossible for those guys to stop

him oh well i mean it's because his you know i think you have to start with his size like you mentioned he has that that natural leverage advantage over pretty much everybody, you know, being six foot one, which has helped quite a few guys. You know, if you're very explosive, I think, which he is at the top marker of that, and you have that natural leverage, chances are you're probably going to be a pretty disruptive guy. I mean, think of, you know, Atkins, Grady Jarrett, Puna Ford. Some of these guys were just very difficult to block because there's not a lot of surface area to really grab, you know,

as an offensive lineman because they're just shorter than you. And it's just more difficult to access their frame, you know. So I think that's kind of the start of it all. And then just how skilled he is using his hands. So it's already tough to get, you know, hands on him without him swiping the hands of the blocker. So you add those two things together and his ability to knock hands down and swipe and chop

and set up his moves is just,'s just unreal it's just it's unparalleled right now and he just has the perfect like convergence of skill size just that natural raw talent of just that sheer explosiveness that he has um it's just it's special man i mean he's and he's obviously got to be an extraordinarily hard worker and all that stuff because he's really maximized everything he has. So he's the complete package, man. I mean, there's just not much you can do to really slow him down. There's been some performances over the years,

some case studies that I've looked you know offensive line masterminds for instance guys like joe tooney and shaq nason super bowl a couple years back they had pretty good games against him in some one-on-one situations and some other guys done you know fairly well against him but it really happens in a series of reps like you can have a couple good reps against him and that's pretty much the best you can hope for i remember going back and looking at the tape in 2018 when aaron donald largely lined up over tom compton and i don't think i've ever seen someone beaten so much in a single game and tom compton i mean you know bless his heart but he was more of a backup offensive lineman than a starter. And it was just play after play after play.

Aaron Donald is in the backfield. And eventually the Vikings more or less had to go to just quick passes because he was going to get a sack or a pressure on every single play. So they will have to deal with that again. They will also have to deal with the number three guy on your list, which is miles Garrett. When they go up against the Cleveland Browns. Now you have invented a stat, uh, that you call true sack rate, which is measuring the quality of sacks. And I think this is very interesting because someone can get, you know, 10 sacks and is it cleanup sacks or is it beating someone right away instantly, that kind of thing. And so I think like clarifying or bringing clarity to what those sack numbers mean is something cool that you've done for your website.

And you've got miles Garrett, like all the way up at the top of that list. Um, this is another one where it's going to be miles Garrett against Christian Darisaw early in Darisaw's career. And I think that Darisaw is just in for a lot of challenges but this is the one where we're going to be able to watch brandon and say okay can he handle this at all right i think this will be his first crazy difficult challenge yeah i think it's important to before even just just going into the matchup to to realize that there's probably not going to be asked to block here one-on-one a lot yeah just you know because of him being a rookie yeah but also because of the offensive scheme that you know the vikings i'm assuming are still

going to have it's going to be similar to the last couple years and you know heavy play action zone run uh moving the pocket um it just makes life easier on the offensive line in general when you're playing that style of offense because it doesn't really isolate your tackles in those situations as it does somewhere like Tampa, you know, where the tackles are isolated, you know, heavily. So, you know, I think that's important to remember. So with that said, like, you know, my anticipation going in is going to be, so, you know, I think that's important to remember. So with that said, like, you know, my, my, um, anticipation going in is going to be, okay, he's, he's going to be facing or Garrett probably definitely less than 10 times one-on-one in the whole game, you know, maybe less than five, uh, but somewhere in that range. So it becomes difficult to really get a lot out of that game just because, you know, anything can happen in that few amount of reps. You know, it depends on what the game flow is, what the game situation is.

You know, Garrett could just set up his move a couple, like two, three times brilliantly and, you know, set him up and make him look bad. And then, you know, Darasau gets one more shot in the whole game to redeem himself. And then we come away from it thinking, oh, man, he can't do it. Or, man, look, he massively struggled. And it's like you have to consider all the context of it

to really determine what it means. So for me, I'm going to be going in watching that and just trying to figure out how many times is he really isolated and how did he do? How did he win? How did he lose? And you could draw some conclusions from it. Obviously, we only get 16, 17 games a year now, so you have to draw some from an individual game. But I think there's a lot more kind of detail around that goes into it that I think it's going to make it really interesting. Yeah, no, that's a great point.

And that goes into how the Vikings are going to game plan and what's been notable over the last couple of years. And we could talk about this trio of top 10 guys that the Vikings are facing just in general with our top 10 on your list, Miles Garrett, Joey Bosa, and Khalil Mack. And they're all kind of different. Um, you could correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Bosa line up on the offense's right side. And Garrett is on the office's left side and Khalil Mack is whatever they just so happened to decide like the amount of moving around and and things like that i also think adds an interesting extra element and how much the vikings have to protect christian derisaw against guys like this is i think a major factor to how this offense performs over this year yeah for sure um they all do move

around but bosa i think you know is probably the guy that stays put the most over the right tackle. He will rush over the left sometimes, though, like I said. He kicks inside a little bit more than Garrett does. He's very good at rushing over the guard. Yeah, he played over the right tackle like almost 75 percent of the time in 2020 but actually in 2019 it was much more even uh evenly split on sides so who knows what we'll get this year you know if it's closer to even or closer to the 75 percent of the right tackle so you know it varies with these guys even mac i think uh in 2019 he went over he was almost even in 2019 and then 2020

he was like 80 of the time over over the right tackle so you know it varies um you know it just depends i guess on matchups and stuff like that but yeah so with derisaw i mean facing those three guys i'm sure he's gonna get at least two three reps against them all, you know, maybe, you know, 10 to 15. You know, I'm talking like pass protection, somewhat one-on-one situations. I think that's probably like the max you'll see those guys one-on-one. But, yeah, I mean, you know, we're going to get to see him in those situations. And anytime you're evaluating an offensive tackle you want those situations because that just says so much about them um you know but at the same time you have

to kind of temper it based on the you know the situation as well so it's yeah i mean i hope we get to see him one-on-one you know at least two three times a game against these guys that'd be great and if more than yeah it's just like a bonus. So I think that fans know a lot about Khalil Mack. So we don't have to dive into that one. They've seen Khalil Mack throw Vikings tackles every year, pretty much. But, you know, maybe a guy that Vikings fans don't know very well that I want to ask you about is TJ Watt.

They're going to play JJ Watt also. And he is, he's a little later down on your list, but TJ Watt, uh, is one. And, and this there's actually three defensive linemen from the Steelers on your top 50 list, which is kind of crazy. That's a game that I think the Vikings fans will look at and say, I think we're better than the Steelers for who they're going to be this year. But one determining factor year in and year out has been if the other team has a great defensive line, the Vikings struggle and the Steelers have maybe the best. So explain how challenging that defensive line is going to be,

starting with TJ Watt, who has kind of just emerged over the last couple of years as an elite edge rusher. Yeah, with them, it's really, like you said, it's the whole unit. Like, I think they're probably going to be the best defensive pass rush unit in the league this year again, or certainly one of the three best. They're one of, like, the elite tier groups. And they just create so much havoc up front. They have guys who have a lot of autonomy like step onto it especially like where they're given the opportunity to just go out there and take advantage of what they see and that can create a lot of chaos for an offensive line

because you can't really get like you know beat on them you know because you're so unpredictable they're moving around they They're stunting. They're running games and spinning. And, you know, it's just chaotic. You know, they really create a lot of chaos. So, you know, and Watt is, you know, obviously a key part of that. His, I think really when you watch him, the main thing for him is his quickness off the ball, his snap timing and get off. It's just really, really good. And that creates a lot of pressure for tackles around the corner.

So they really have to be, you know, deliberate about getting out of their stance explosively and getting to a spot so they don't get beat quick outside. And, you know, for most tackles, that creates kind of a tendency to turn towards the rusher prematurely and then that opens you up to getting beat inside which he can counter inside so that's what makes him you know what he is an elite head rusher right now is because he has speed to thread the edge and then the skill to cross the guy's face and win inside. And then when you have Stephon Tuitt inside of him putting a ton of pressure

on the guard, you don't really have a lot of help as a tackle inside either because of Tuitt. So they play off each other very well. And, you know, Minnesota's, I think, a key in a game like that is really not playing from behind and not giving them more opportunities to really just kind of unleash, you know, what they want to do and maybe have to play the run a little bit more. Making them do stuff like that and keeping them honest is really the key because if you get into like too many obvious pass situations against that

front, especially as an inexperienced offensive line. I mean, you're going to probably struggle quite a bit. Hey, everyone. I want to tell you about our friends at Scout Logistics. And I really do mean it when I say friends. They are fans of Purple Insider over at Scout Logistics. And since they reached out wanting to support this show, I want to tell you about what they do. Scout Logistics is just-in-time transportation for full tractor-trailer loads,

and if you're wondering what that means exactly, well, if you own or work for a company that needs shipping solutions, they are the preferred carrier of Fortune 500 companies across North America, and we have quite a few of those in Minnesota, right? They can ship perishable, non-perishable, FTL or LTL, and they have on-time delivery rate of over 99%. So if you're like them and you enjoy the show and you have shipping needs, check out ScoutLogistics.com or call 855-217-2688 extension 232 to connect with them directly to find out how Scout Logistics can minimize risk and overperform and go the extra mile for your company and this is exactly why the number one thing on my list for training camp and for really this entire year is how this now more talented offensive line can perform against some of these really good players and really good teams and uh with pittsburgh i hate to say that

things are underrated i'm trying to Pittsburgh, I hate to say that things are underrated. I'm trying to get out of that habit of saying things are underrated because it's football and people know who everyone is, but to it and Hayward are just not talked about as superstars necessarily. Maybe it's because Steelers defense is more of a brand itself, but they are so dominant that in 2017, uh, cam Hayward individually ruined that game for the Vikings. And I could see this happening again. It's a Thursday night football game. Neither team is going to have a lot of chance to game plan the way that they normally would. So you kind of run your stuff out there and it ends up being who's better me or you. And I, I just feel like this is one

to to fear if you're the vikings because of how good that defensive line is yeah for sure in prime time like that too you know there's just just that little bit of an uptick in you know pressure and exposure and you know it uh it's gonna be really telling, I think. You know, what week did you say that was in? Okay, I don't have the schedule. It's in the middle of the season. It's in the middle of the season. Okay.

Yep. That's good then from Minnesota's perspective. Just so, you know, you get some more time and, you know, understanding of the guy next to you and just more, you know, live reps and stuff. So that's a plus. But, yeah, either way, it's going to be very difficult. Like I said, I think staying in those manageable down and distances

and keeping the game close and stuff like that is going to be really important. It always is against teams with great pass rushers, I think, because they really thrive when they are able to totally disregard the run uh or you know at least mostly disregard playing the run and just focus on rushing the passer and those are situations you want to avoid like at all costs okay a little later in the season that i remembered it in my brain when i first said it week 14 so how about this though they go against that defensive line, then Khalil Mack, then Aaron Donald, then Zedaria Smith, then Khalil Mack. That's how they end the

season. Uh, hopefully they can get, uh, prepared against the bangles to face the second half of that season. Because I mean, my gosh, like what a run of incredible players that they have to face at the end of the year. All right. Let's talk about, um, Daniel Hunter, because he's coming off of the herniated disc and misses the entire season. Prior to that, he is one of the great sack men for earlier in a seat or early in a career of all time. He's 26th on your list. Tell me what the difference is. And I'm sure it's small between,

you know, the, the top of your list, the miles Garrett and the Daniel Hunter, but tell me what the difference is between the tier one, Aaron Donald, the tier two, and kind of where you have Daniel Hunter, which is more of tier three. Yeah. So tier one is, just aaron donald i mean that's his tier and you know that's kind of self-explanatory nobody's on his level so i typically the elite tier would be tier one but when i was making this i was like i can't put donald with everybody else because he's just so very clearly you know in his own tier so i created a tier for him. Um, but tier two elite, um, those are guys that I think are true impact starters who can affect the game in multiple ways, um,

who can dominate any level of competition, um, and who have done it, you know, very recently. And if they don't have a track record past just the prior year, then they have to be just really, really special. And that's where Wyatt Teller and Tristan Wurst come in. I think they are worthy of being in there, but those are the, and Nick Bosa as well. So the bottom three of that tier, 18, 19, and 20 are guys with only one year of being dominant um so they're kind of you know that's even rare within a rare tier but most of the all the of the other

guys have done it for at least a couple years now um so that that's i think kind of what consists of that tier and then the next two are both very good tiers there's just a ton of very good players in the trenches so I had to break it up obviously in some way and the way I did it is I put very good players into the tier three and then also very good guys who are trending up so you know particularly young guys like Brian Burns, Frank Ragno. You know, Daniel Hunter, I even have a guy who I think is trending up because he's still young. He's 26 years old.

He's going to be 26 years old week one. So he's still like right in the middle of his prime or what he should be. So that's why I still have him, you know, pretty high. And I think he's trending up. It's just for him, not only did he not play last season, which, you know pretty high and I think he's trending up it's just for him it's not only did he not play last season which you know somebody like Nick Bosa didn't play last season um but it's because he had a herniated herniated disc in his neck and that is you know I think just based on you know track record of guys with different injuries and just you know herniated disc in the

neck or a torn ACL I think we know which one is maybe a little bit more difficult to come back from and sustain success past that. So that's kind of why I had him down is really just because of his situation health-wise. I just want to see him last for 16 games again, 17 games, or at least 12, 13 games. Something to where if he gets dinged up and misses a couple games because of a knee or whatever, that's fine. But I just want to see him be able to really sustain it

and just the grueling nature of the season and that neck be okay. And then if that happens and he gets 10 sacks, which he will if he plays that many games, then it's like, okay, just bump him up again for this list next year um because you know in terms of physical tools talent the ability to dominate skills as a pass

rusher um and stuff like that i think he's on par with some of those elite guys um it's just a matter of seeing it again you know with him yeah no and i think that's totally fair that's one of our big camp storylines is like how far along is daniel hunter we have not seen him in a very long time he didn't even practice outside of i think the first practice in training camp last year was when he got hurt and then we haven't seen him since essentially january of 2019 that's a long time to not step on a football field i think think that's fair. Now, what do you think of the fact that Daniil Hunter has to do this all himself on the Vikings pass rush? Because I think if there's anything that's been left on the table, it's additional pass rushers. Now they did sign, of course, Sheldon Richardson. He will be helpful. He's always

pressured the quarterback, but they're going to mix him in with two other defensive tackles. So when it comes to a down to down basis, especially if it's first downs where they have Tomlinson and Pierce in the game and not Richardson, it's kind of going to be all on the shoulders of Daniil Hunter, unless we see Steven Weatherly rise to the challenge or the emergence of someone like DJ Wanham. But I think that it's possible for one guy to carry a lot of weight. I think that they're asking a lot of Daniil Hunter coming off of his injury. Yeah, I mean, I think that, you know, he's certainly like the alpha dog of the group. You know, it's easy to see he's the top guy to stop in terms of pass rushing as a pass rush threat but man this defensive line just looking at it right now on paper is just to

me almost like light years better than than last year uh just you know it's just so much better i mean just starting with the interior you have three new players now, and they're all proven starters in Pierce, Tomlinson, and Richardson. I mean, that's just – it's just a dramatic upgrade, and I think that's going to help the whole entire defense, really. And they're not expert-level or even very good-level pass rushers, per se. Richardson is – I think he has been very good in the past, and I still think he's a very underrated pass rusher. He's going to be a great guy to bring in on pass downs and stuff like that.

But Tomlinson and Pierce, they're respectable enough to where it's going to be an upgrade from last year and um you know enough to i think generate the adequate level of attention to the inside part of the offensive line to where you don't have to you know blocking scheme blocking concepts can't you know carve out as much attention to hunter and the edge as they would have been able to like last year you know for instance so you know because they can push the pocket a little bit um you know that's kind of what they do is pass rushers to just compress the pocket and you know move the offensive line back gradually they're not like tremendously skilled pass rushers or anything but that in and of itself is going to be enough I think to help Hunter a little bit. And then, you know, it seems like they're just throwing a lot of darts

for that other defensive end spot, which I like the strategy. I mean, you know, you got, what, like five, six names here of guys who are at least somewhat promising. I mean, you know, if this depth chart on our list is correct, I mean, Steven Weatherly, Holmes, Patrick jones janarius robinson um dj wanham i mean you know you have a rotation of young guys who would you know presumably be getting better as the year goes on they they're surrounded by now hunter thomas and pearson richardson i mean i just think the likelihood of success for them you know know, I think I'm expecting them to be like an above average pass rush.

Assuming Hunter is healthy. I think that they have a pretty good shot of being like an above average overall pass rush unit because they just have a lot of options opposite Hunter. And then, you know, Hunter and the interior are just, I think really solid. Yeah. I was going to ask you that and we can make this the last thing so i don't take up your whole day but um just where would you put this defensive line now i think i know where it would have been last year brandon at the bottom is where it was last year and talk about pushing the pocket there was no pushing of the pocket or

really getting anywhere close to the quarterback last year. Um, and it is, you're right. It's extremely overhauled to where it was, um, from last season, but where would you put it? Is it a top tier defensive line? Is it sort of second tier? Where would you have it now? I'm probably like third tier, you know, like above average. Um, I'm making my list now for establish the run, you know, like above average. I'm making my list now for Establish the Run, top 32 pass rush units, top 32 offensive lines. And I'm still in the early stages of it, so I haven't stacked all the teams yet. So I can't give an exact number, but I would say for me,

tier one is going to be elite, tier two very good, tier three above average. And that's going to consist of most of the pass rush units in the league in that tier three tier four range and i think they're going to be somewhere in there um you know it's it's if we're operating under the assumption that hunter is back to himself 100 i think that um you know above average is probably where they will be with upside to be maybe a little bit better. I mean, if one of these two rookies proves that they can be a, you know,

competent pass rusher and be part of a rotation where you have, you know, a few guys who are decent, you know, I don't know. I don't really see them getting into the very good tier necessarily unless one of those guys explodes or one of these other guys like Wanham or somebody just develops more than we've seen. So I really would probably spot them, you know, probably in the 15 to 20 range, you know, just off the top of my head. Brandon Thorne, you can follow him at Brandon Thorne NFL. The website is trench warfare.substack.com. People should go check that out.

I subscribe, which I got right into my email, your top 50 trench players. And then I sent you a message and said, let's talk about this. So I'm very glad that we did. And, you know, you're always welcome and invited on the show. So I'm sure there will be many more times, Brandon, that we need Der you know you're always welcome and invited on the show so i'm sure there will be many more times brandon that we need derisaw breakdowns we need the d-line broken down and how they're pressuring the quarterback you are an invaluable resource for anyone that wants to understand trench play and i appreciate you so great to catch up again man absolutely man

it's my pleasure to come on as always and uh look forward to doing it again