Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - After another hot practice, is Sam Darnold solidifying himself as QB1?

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

Matthew Coller and Will Ragatz of SI on Vikings break down another very strong practice from Sam Darnold and JJ McCarthy's first tough practice in a few days. Are we getting closer to calling it? What have we seen from both that could indicate the "competition" is still on? Who else are we looking at for the preseason game? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here inside TCO Performance Center where we've just walked off the field for another practice for the Minnesota Vikings asccarthy and also on the other side a pretty darn good practice for sam darnold and i'm gonna make a little statement here i'm just gonna throw it out there and i know that there's no depth charts and i would never suggest that there is one but i think that uh mr darnold is separating himself to the point where there might not be any chance that J.J. McCarthy could start week one because Sam Darnold has connected with Justin Jefferson repeatedly over the last four days. I think he's put together four very good practices. When Jefferson was away dealing with a personal matter, he found Jordan Addison instead. And each day we've come out,

it has been more clear of the comfort that Sam Darnold feels with this offense. And McCarthy is so much more up and down where one day it's a good practice. The next day it's a tough practice. And today there were not many completions. In fact, you watched or tracked all of them. We all watch all of them,

but you actually wrote down all of what happened with McCarthy today. So do you agree with my statement that Darnold this week is made it more and more clear? He's QB one. There's not really a debate at this point. And he's had also to this point, a very good training camp where McCarthy has been much more of an up and down rookie.

I agree with that to some extent. I will push back on that a little bit in that, well, we're two weeks into training camp now. I believe today was a full speed practice number 11 or something like that. And early on McCarthy was really kind of impressing and turning heads. And I think exceeding expectations a little bit. And there were a few early practices where you'd say that was a J.J. McCarthy day if you're giving it to the two of them then uh Darnold kind of bounced back and then McCarthy's had a day here and there and the last few or at least the last couple that we've seen have been definite Darnold days today was absolutely a Darnold day I agree with that completely. McCarthy threw a pick, which I think was just his second of training camp in team periods. Also threw a couple picks in one-on-ones, which it's hard to know how much of that is the QB or the receiver or just the DB making a play, but not a lot of completions for him. Sam Darnold had some really good ones to Justin Jefferson, to Jordan Addison, Johnny Munt. It was a good day for Sam Darnold.

I just would say that I think there's still time for it to fluctuate back and forth a little bit more. And we're going into the first preseason game this week, but got another practice tomorrow. We got the night practice on Monday. Three full preseason games. I don't know how much we're going to see Sam Darnold, but that's a lot of opportunity, certainly for J.J. McCarthy to impress. I guess I wouldn't be surprised if the pendulum swings back a little bit, because I still think J.J. McCarthy, on the whole, has had a pretty good training camp from what I expected. It's been up and down. He's looked like a rookie at times, but you've also seen the arm talent at times. And Darnold, for as good as he's looked recently,

there were early practices where he was throwing a lot of picks and missing some guys and doing kind of Sam Darnold things that we've seen from him at the NFL regular season level. So I think, yeah, all along it's been way more likely than not that Darnold is your week one starter. And I think last week we talked, oh, maybe I was down to from 80-20 to 70-30 or something like that. And I'm probably back up to 80-20. But I don't think it's over at this point that I'm writing off J.J. McCarthy. And I just think there's more time to continue to watch this quarterback battle play out, but Darnold's got a comfortable lead right now. So I'm, I'm framing it this way.

There is a clear separation. And also we're talking about now, as you said, what 11 practices in, so that's two full weeks of practices. And we haven't seen any more than a couple of first team reps from jj mccarthy a couple times with the seven on sevens that's not enough in comparison to sam darnold has played with the first team since otas minicamp all the practices and up until the last four practices it wasn't really finding Justin Jefferson like let's be clear there's no one more important than Justin Jefferson period to this offense and he was okay like there was a little bit of Justin Jefferson kind of where was I supposed to be the throw wasn't on time but it is clicked and it's clicked in some big ways and of course it's

because of Jefferson but Darnold's getting the ball there and there was one today where he threw it up to him in a one-on-one situation he fought off clear pretty clear pass interference spun around caught the ball fading away 25 yards down the field because he's unbelievable at football and this is why they signed him but darnold is now finding him on time he's trusting him and he seems in control of the offense whereas J.J. McCarthy is just looking like a guy who is playing NFL football for the first time which means as you said some practices have been like oh yeah McCarthy's having a day maybe just the last day I don't know the days run together maybe it's just yesterday that it was going well or two days ago where it was it's just yesterday that it was going well,

or two days ago where it was a longer practice. I guess it would have been Saturday where it was a longer practice. And we all walked away going, man, you know, okay. McCarthy, he's making this thing interesting. But I think with the consistency of Darnold doing it day after day, the consistency of going all the way back through this entire thing, the fact that Kevin O'Connell has more or less pointed to Sam Darnold is probably going to be our starter. He's never said that recently, but even when going into training camp, it's going to start campus QB one, the rep count. If we're leading the T reading the tea leaves, it's getting late. Now we are a month away from the start of the season.

If you were going to push that button and say, all right, J.J. McCarthy is going to get a chance to start. I think it would have had to have happened pretty much this week where we saw more of an equal split. Because going into the joint practices, we know how important those are to Kevin O'Connell. For the first team, he thinks that's a preseason game because he doesn't play them in the preseason game. So their preseason is those two joint practices against Cleveland. And as of this moment, there really isn't much evidence to suggest that J.J. McCarthy would play with anyone except for the second team when they go to Cleveland.

Would you agree with that? Yeah, I think so. And that's a good point on the fact that the reps with the ones haven't evened out at all. We started to see him get a few, but I don't think there were any today. I mean, I was watching all of them. There weren't any today. I don't know if there were any yesterday either. And, yeah, so McCarthy, we're recording this on Wednesday, I believe.

Days run together. They really do last friday was his roughest day where flores was really getting to him um a lot of incompletions a lot of rush throws um and he referenced that today in his press conference he told us about a tradition where if he has a bad practice dating back to michigan he wears the same tights uh the rest of the day until um until he's later that night showering, going to bed, whatever. And then he takes them off and just flushes it.

And that's kind of a metaphorical thing for him. And then he bounced back and he was pretty good on Saturday, I thought. Pretty solid yesterday. And then today was another rough one. So of the last four, you'd say it's been up and down. With Darnold, there hasn't been a really bad practice since earlier in training camp my biggest takeaway from Saturday's session which was a long one was just the chemistry with Jefferson those two were connecting all day

deep balls intermediate short stuff and then we're off for a couple days Jefferson was out yesterday he comes back today and it's the same thing. It's like they hit the ground running again. Deep ball is the one you described where Jefferson adjusted against Byron Murphy, and the ball was right there, and he screamed afterwards and celebrated. There was one of those kind of slot fades, like 30 yards down the right sideline that they always run with Kirk Cousins, and Darnold put it right there for Jefferson.

A red zone one. There was a red zone one where he was rolling out. Yeah, there was another one of those, yeah, where he rolled out and found Jefferson. And I was talking about the one like 30, 35 yards up the right sideline where he just dropped it with some touch right into the bucket. And so the chemistry there has been growing. Yeah, I think all along it's been really kind of Darnold's job to lose.

I guess McCarthy also would have to earn it even if Darnold wasn't playing well. But I think Darnold's played well enough that he is the overwhelming favorite to start the season with the job. Now how long he keeps that will obviously be determined by the results that he shows in regular season games. The results we see from J.J. McCarthy in these preseason games will say a lot about how ready he is to step in within a month or so, if that's going to be the case. But yeah, the consistency that Darnold has showed of late that I don't think was there with him in the first week of training camp when there were a lot of misses. That's been, I think, a positive development for

the Vikings that he's feeling more comfortable in Kevin O'Connell's offense. We talk a lot about the comfort level with McCarthy, and that's obviously a huge thing. But Darnold, I think, is also growing more comfortable, getting more used to all the wacky looks that Brian Flores throws at you. So it's been encouraging from him recently. And yeah, when it boils down to it, if you showed up today and this was your first practice you're watching, you would be able to tell who the 27-year-old veteran is and who the 21-year-old rookie is. And that may be just what it comes down to for the Vikings when they're going into week one. So allow me to describe the roller coaster of following the Sam Darnold training camp,

even maybe from the very start. So at the beginning, he's taken all the first team reps and also throwing the ball extremely well. So I'm thinking, wait, is this going to happen? Is this going to be like one of those things? I remember the very first day I was like, he just dropped a couple deep balls that were perfect. And I'm like, oh, okay.

Right. So we were talking, oh my gosh, his arm talent. This is crazy. This is going to be Case Keenum, except for the dude is actually talented. And then he has, I'm sorry, Case doesn't deserve that. But actually there's a massive difference in arm talent between the two.

So then when he struggled in the first couple padded practices oh yeah he's sam darnold and then i think a lot of people started to believe that mccarthy had a chance at that point because it was much closer after a few practices and i didn't move my meter from where I had it at the start. I always had it at 25%. But the way that Darnold has swept in recently with these good practices day after day, I have now gone back to thinking he's better talented Case Keenum after today's practice. You said if you were watching him just for the first time, you would say, this is a franchise quarterback who's out there today, throwing to his franchise wide receiver with the way that he's played. And I don't mean to overhype it.

I mean, we just saw this look very good for multiple days in a row. And we know Sam Darnold's shortcomings. You don't have to leave them in the comments. I've seen his pro football reference page. I fully understand what Sam Darnold has done in the past, but this franchise and its wide receivers have a tendency to make quarterbacks better than they've ever been before. And so now the roller coaster has swung back up for me of thinking, oh, we might not even see J.J. McCarthy this year.

It might be the Sam Darnold show. And another reporter, friend of ours today, standing next to me, said this after the throw that you described, that fade that was way down the field. He said, what if they have to franchise tag Darnold after a year or something? Like, what would it take? What would it take? This is the fun for me because we don't know how it's going to play out exactly for sure. I think that following that range of emotions from practice to practice is the entertainment. But I also think that if I'm setting my meter, I dropped it with Dane the other day to 10, I might even drop it right now to five that JJ McCarthy starts unless something happens now and

fast with either Sam Darnold or with McCarthy suddenly having a click. But these things, you just can't rush them. Well, I mean, you just can't make a guy, even if he's working as hard as possible, even if he's got a lot of talent, you just can't make him have experience that has to be earned day in and day out. And I think overall, I would give JJ McCarthy a very high grade for his training camp so far, but he doesn't look like Sam Darnold. He doesn't look like a guy who's been here for many, many years. And I think today was the first time. Will, I saw a little body language from JJ McCarthy looking over at the sideline.

Like this is a tough one. This is not, this day is not going the way that I wanted it to look. So these are the bumps along the road that they expected. And that's why they took the approach they did. That's why they paid Sam Darnold $10 million. Yeah, no, you're right. This is what they envisioned when you're going to draft a quarterback.

There's a chance you're going to draft a 21-year-old quarterback, whether it had been McCarthy, whether it had even been someone like Drake May or just one of the guys who wasn't in college for six years, like a couple of them were. They're going to need some development. They're going to need some time. O'Connell's been telling us this the whole offseason since they drafted him that we are not by any means going to rush this thing,

and we're going to wait until he's ready. And that just might not be week one, and that's okay because he doesn't have to play week one. You can keep developing behind the scenes. If he didn't play the entire year this year, you could do that. Now, that doesn't happen usually with top 10 picks. That's usually later first-round picks like Jordan Love or whoever. But whenever he ends up playing, it's going to be when the Vikings view that he's ready.

And with Darnold, I mean, you said it's a roller coaster. Would I be surprised at all if it swung back down a drop tomorrow or monday's night practice or or whenever no i wouldn't um but it the fact that he's stacked a few good days recently um has looked the way he has with justin jefferson with jordan addison um i i yeah i i don't know if i'm 95 5 because i still think there's a scenario where jj mccarthy comes out tomorrow even has a really good practice plays really well um when he's finally not facing a brian flores defense um in the preseason game against the raiders second and third stringers uh on saturday which he even said today he's excited to just see a vanilla defense

uh for the first time in a while, and then maybe carries that over to the Monday night practice or something, and then we're getting more mixing next week and it's a conversation again. I wouldn't say that that is by any means the most likely outcome, but it's still not something that I'm quite going to write off just yet because I still do every day see at least some of the flashes of the arm talent and today was not a great day for him but there was a ball he threw in one-on-ones to Jalen Naylor where he just dropped back and made it look absolutely easy on like a 40 year old 40 yard

go ball that he placed perfectly a perfect spiral um and I'm like oh that looks a little different coming out of his hand um just like that looks like little different coming out of his hand just like that looks like top 10 pick kind of arm talent right there and there there were some other moments here there today it wasn't all completely start to finish horrible but then yeah there were some picks there were some miscommunications there were some misses and he still looks like he's navigating the timing of it all oh yeah and the decisiveness and reading the defense quickly. Because you have two, two and a half seconds in that pocket before somebody that Brian Flores is sending is getting to you for a fake sack.

And he's still dealing with that and when to let it rip and how to get through those progressions really quickly. But, yeah, I guess I just can't rule it out fully, but you are right. I'm in agreement with you that it's looking more and more like it'll be Darnold when the Vikings head to New York in week one. And I think that's very true about the way that McCarthy has handled it all and also the way that he's shown all the talent that he has. And I just don't see someone who is stacking days the way that you would expect from a veteran quarterback where with Kirk cousins,

we would always have a couple of rough practices. Then by the middle end, he's running a very smooth practice like Sam Darnold did today. But even though Sam Darnold has a less than desirable pro football reference page, he still has a lot of wins in the NFL, a lot of good starts, a lot of starting experience. He went eight and nine as a Carolina Panther with a lot of adversity, if you will, at that place. So it shouldn't be terribly shocking that he is convinced now numerous teams to start

him and to give him opportunities. This is why, because they see the talent that he has he is now at this point a veteran and experienced quarterback and oftentimes training camp favors that guy it's the reason why Tyrod Taylor beat out Justin Herbert Nathan Peterman beat out Josh Allen once upon a time I don't think it's that extreme I think Darnold is better than those guys but a lot of times it favors the experienced quarterback. And also if your plan all along was to start Darnold, give him a chance at a redemption story, and then bring McCarthy along and read and react from there based on how ready he is. I don't think you'd get to this point in training camp and have a good night practice

and preseason game as Kevin O'Connell and then go you know what that plan that I put together throughout this entire offseason all those practices Darnold had thrown to Jefferson all those hundreds of reps that he and Jefferson have now taken together I'm throwing them out the window McCarthy's my guy it would be at this point I thought this week was the most important for deciding where it's going to go now anything can change it's football but if you planned it would be like we're gonna go to uh Wisconsin on a road trip and we've planned our stops and then we're driving along and everything is going according to plan and then we just go no we're turning around we're going so. We're going somewhere.

Something would have to really happen. And if you were going to completely change your plan at this point, which again, as you said, I think is totally fine and is not a referendum on McCarthy's career. It's only the expected outcome thus far. So I'm not calling it. It's kind of like an election where X number of percentage precincts are reporting or something like, well, we've got 27% of the, that's how it is now. The precincts are reporting and the percentages are leaning heavily toward Sam Darnold. That though, McCarthy and what he does on Saturday night, assuming he plays, it's a mystery until thursday uh he'll play yeah uh he'll play he will most certainly play but there's other players playing a lot of them actually and i want to know from you who you are most interested in slash what you are most interested in in the upcoming pre-season contest the first one that we can actually talk about and say oh well we're very excited to get football back and be serious because recently uh kevin o'connell has not made them serious games

but this one with mccarthy playing more serious where would you like to begin for things that you are interested in i know there's going to be an article of yours coming with this very subject yeah it i mean obviously we we just have spent the first part of this podcast talking about the quarterbacks but it has to be the quarterbacks um this is going to be the highest local tv pre-season ratings for any Vikings game in a very long time maybe ever uh because they've never drafted a quarterback this high before uh yeah like you said kevin o'connell has not treated the preseason like it matters in the slightest except for like determining who your second string punt gunner is and your backup and third string defensive tackle

and things like that i mean it's they've just been unwatchable football games at times. Like last year, there's a lot of Jaron Hall, and we've had a lot of Kellen Mond in the past, and Sean Mannion. They just haven't been serious activities, and that's why even when you're playing against other teams' backups, they're 0-6 in the preseason under O'Connell. They haven't won a preseason game since 2019, which is my favorite super random pointless fact about the Minnesota Vikings. They lost 10 in a row.

That could change this year because you're going to be, I mean, we might still get some Jaron Hall and Nick Mullins reps or whatever, but we're going to get a lot of J.J. McCarthy and we're going to get some real kind of interesting players playing in these games. And yeah, it has to start with the quarterbacks and how McCarthy looks, how he handles, um, the game setting. Cause it, it's just, it's really different to go from practicing, um, in this setting, going against Brian Flores defenses frequently, like they do going, having McCarthy go against the ones. Um, and there wasn't as much of that today. It was a lot of twos on twos, but he's had a lot of reps against the ones and there's been challenging situations and uh you're playing

with your own teammates and now we're going into a game setting where by design he's going to be seeing a fairly simple vanilla NFL defense because whatever Antonio Pearson the Raiders are cooking up they're not going to show it in this game Brian Flores isn going to, Brian Flores is going to do some insane things anyways, because he always does, but he's not going to show his best stuff. It's going to be fairly kind of, it's just the basic install stuff on both sides of the ball. And I'm really curious to see to what level McCarthy can execute that. Obviously we know he can hand the ball off well and do that, but I want to see him you know drop back and play action and rip some throws to the intermediate level and um take some third

down snaps out of shotgun and see what he can do there and he's developed a lot of chemistry with guys he's going to be playing with on saturday which i don't even know how much we see jalen aylor maybe we do but i'm thinking about like thayer and Jashon Jones and Lucky Jackson and Tristan Jackson and a lot of guys who have kind of been showing up in training camp and having nice days. Thayer Thomas had a really good day today on a few of McCarthy's best throws. So, yeah, it has to start there with the quarterback position. And I guess tying in the receivers a little bit as well to see who kind of rounds out uh that room outside of the top four-ish that we know are set folks us cellular noticed that the way we use our phones has gotten ironic we try to put our

phones down for dinner but the menu is on a qr code that's ironic. We hit like on social media posts that we don't actually like. Ironic. Which is why U.S. Cellular created UsMode to help us reconnect with each other and use our phones less ironically. A phone company wanting people to use their phones less? Ironic. Let's find us again with UsMode from U.S. Cellular. Visit uscellular.com slash built for us to get started. Well, it's going to be a Minnesota's first look at JJ McCarthy. That is always an interesting dynamic because the fans have not seen him play at all unless you are out here. So you haven't seen him in a jersey.

You haven't seen what he looks like. You've basically been hoping that I tell you. And I have been. You're welcome. It's free on the show as well. Isn't that great? But you can sign up for the newsletter if you want to support the show. The point is, though, that the fans are going to see him in the jersey,

see how he looks, see how he moves, see how he throws the football. And that opens up kind of a new door of discussion for all of us because there actually is a sample size of game play. And you know, in this one that Kevin O'Connell wants him to play well. And I think that's quite a difference. I'm not saying you didn't want Jaron Hall to play well. It's just that going into the third preseason game last year where is your focus really if you're Kevin O'Connell it's on week one it's on that Tampa Bay game that you're going to play with Kirk Cousins

whereas through the entire training camp McCarthy gets a lot of reps and Darnold's are somewhat limited because we used to see Kirk take all the ones and all the twos and then every once in a while somebody else mixes in but it was Kirk Kirk Kirk naturally uh and then when he went down they were in a lot of trouble but this is a different camp where even though McCarthy is with the twos he's taking a ton of reps which would make me wonder do you want to get a little Darnold in there uh and also you probably want to load up McCarthy with as many reps as you possibly can, a little more game planning,

a little more preparation, a little more like this is how it actually works in the NFL. And then we'll see how he looks when he actually gets out there. But his performance will be everyone's introduction for the first time to JJ McCarthy, which I just think there's a, an energy about that. There's a momentum about that. And then also he might just throw like two picks and whatever. And then we all forget about it forever as you should with the preseason.

But I just think that it opens like a whole new, like a unlocking the badges or whatever. It's like, we got to the, all right, they drafted them. We unlocked that door. We got to the mini camp. So we saw them for the first time. Now we're seeing the training camp. This is just another new piece of information that we are all like coming to these things for the very first time. We haven't been to this place before and now we're all going to see it. It's like a baby.

He said his first word and now he's got going to see it it's like a a baby they he's he's said his first word and now he's got to take his first steps I'll tell him you said that it's the same thing you make wild analogies all the time about driving to Wisconsin I'm I'm just yeah why don't you leave the analogies to me following that uh that lane here but uh yeah it's McCarthy could totally go out there and not play particularly well and again I don't think that would matter a whole lot in the in the long term um there's a part of me that's like just just thinks he's just kind of a gamer and is going to play well in this because it's the lights on and it's a bunch of people there and the the pads are on it's not a practice setting and

I mean I don't know I I just he won every game he played last year at michigan and was really good and this will be a different speed to some degree i mean you if he holds on to the ball in the pocket they can actually sack him yes they can the raiders he's not wearing a red jersey the raiders can hit him um and there's going to be some like third string rookie defensive end who wants to go prove that he deserves a roster spot and can go hit jj mccarthy so he's got to be aware of those things i could i think we could see his mobility uh within the pocket and escaping the pocket maybe running a little bit that could come into play uh they kevin o'connell will be making sure that he slides down and does not uh take any hits in the open field or anything like that. But yeah, I'm just excited to see his first game opportunity because that is a different

setting than practicing against the same team you've been practicing against over and over and over. So one thing that I've tried to do recently, and we'll get into some other stuff. There's other players on the team, I think a few. But one thing I really wanted to focus on this year. So what I did maybe earlier in my reporting career is I always wanted to be the first to kind of call it. Like I like data and stuff like that. So when they signed Kirk in 2018, it was my thing. This is a bad signing. It's not going to work out.

This was a mistake and all that. And well, I guess now I could say ups and downs through, through the whole thing, but where I've really changed in that way is wanting to let things be what they are just in the moment and not try to make them about too many other things of what is going to mean for the future so the way that jj mccarthy plays i think we should evaluate it we should look at it but we shouldn't try to go oh wow this means he's starting and he's a superstar because we saw him in preseason or it doesn't really mean that he is bad if he throws a pick or if he takes a bad sack or something it's all sort of so fewer of a fewer takes more just reactions i think what i what i'm trying to do i'm trying to listen listen to my football player speak okay i'm trying to stay present with it and and trying

to get one percent better even with the yes i'm trying to get one for we are this is a slow progression you don't find out if a quarterback is good tomorrow it's going to take a while sometimes it takes two three years sometimes three years from now we're still debating if a guy is good the rams traded a guy and then he became amazing with another team and you know jared goff and people thought well if they traded him he must not be any good. So we, we end up not getting the answers sometimes for a while. And I want to evaluate things as they are that day, as opposed to always what it means for the bigger picture. And I think that's a better way to follow the JJ McCarthy progression than to watch him play and go, oh, well, this proves X proves Y kind of thing.

Yeah. I don't think that we should overreact one way or another to whatever happens on Saturday. And I think that'll be hard. I think especially for fans who want to, and I can't blame you for that. But we're going to try to stay level-headed, not get too not get too low there you go love that uh it's never as good as it seems or as bad as it seems um how many more can we work i don't i don't know um but the the one thing i will say and we can talk about other players after this is with jj mccarthy he's met like the benchmarks that i wanted to see through the first two weeks sometimes you see a guy and I don't mean to keep crapping on the same dude but I saw Kellen Mond play football and I'm he's not he's not an NFL quarterback or he's not certainly not a starting caliber NFL I just don't

think he'll ever have those tools and you watch JT McCarthy and you can see the potential, and you see the upside, and you see the flashes, and he looks the part. So that's where I'm at through two weeks. There's still a ton of room to grow, a ton of room for development, and he's attacking that every day and trying to get better, and that's where we are right now. But yeah, I mean, to go back to the start of this conversation, it just, it really looks like it's going to be donald and that that meets the plan that they went in with and i think the plan included some possibility that mccarthy would just blow their minds and become the guy right away and be undeniable and i don't think that that has happened so far um and there's we maybe

are running out of time for it to happen. I say before the preseason even started, but yeah, that's where we're at right now. And who else are you looking forward to seeing? Or are you, are you asking me? We have thoroughly covered. I said,

Hey, why don't we talk about some other guys? And then we talked about the quarterback. This look, we have not had this. We have not had, we're going to lean. We really is right.

We are leaning into that. Who else am I looking for? I am looking for defensive linemen and outside linebackers, because I think that a preseason game is for those guys, really good evaluation tool because yeah, I mean, Levi Drake Rodriguez going up against Vikings offensive linemen. You can certainly figure out a lot there, but it's not quite the same as going up against Vikings offensive linemen, you can certainly figure out a lot there, but it's not quite the same as going up against someone who maybe doesn't know your defense, doesn't know where you're going to rush, doesn't know your tendencies because they've been practicing against you every day. How does he look specifically? But also, I don't know what

Gabriel Murphy's deal is. He hasn't practiced the last couple of days. So I guess we'll see if Gabriel Murphy's going to play, but Owen Porter has been out there and there's just, there's a group of players. Jaqueline Roy, I think needs to make a difference. There's a young guys who have made impacts or impressions here so far. I don't think Dallas Turner's going to play,

but we'll see. I personally would not play him. He's with the first team a lot. If you're there, you don't think Dallas Turner's going to play, but we'll see. I personally would not play him. He's with the first team a lot. If you're there, you don't need to play. But there's so many battles going on. Andre Carter needs to make an impression at some point. He had a good rep today where he got a pressure, but at some point, if he's going to be a guy who can contribute, show it.

And he will get, I would guess guess a lot of reps in this game so I mean that's just a whole position group but if we were deciding which is the most interesting position group that isn't the quarterbacks that's where I would go that is a good one I like the defensive tackle and just OLB general d-line angle because we're going to see a lot of the depth guys there who have a chance to stand out and make an impression and and try to make this team and carter's a good one a second year guy jaqueline roy the second year guy like this is the time when you're playing in these preseason games in year two it's time to to show some things and make your case to be on this roster over a guy who just came in this year two it's time to to show some things and make your case to be on this

roster over a guy who just came in this year because there's always new players who are younger than you and you're in even in your second year they brought in um some some rookie draft picks a bunch of undrafted rookies you mentioned owen porter bo richter is another guy out of air force um like they got guys they got some undrafted free agents at D-Tackle who are going to try to prove themselves here. Thinking about defensive tackles is super random. It just reminded me how good T.Y. McGill was. This came up the other day with Dane.

Was this last year? Two years ago. Two preseasons ago. The best player I've ever seen in the preseason. But anyways, hope T.Y. is doing well. Wasn't he on San Francisco last year? He was, yeah. He's played in the regular season for several teams,

including the 49ers last year. Ed Donatel, let him walk. They could have had an interior rusher. They haven't had one in years. I will keep it on the defensive side and say, obviously, the cornerback room is going to be a big one to evaluate here i don't know who's going to be playing um quarterback or wide receiver or whatever for the raiders but we need to see uh some corners get some real action and the guy that i'm maybe

most excited to see is dwight mcglothern yep um who had another had an interception today in a one-on-one drill um has made plays kind of day in and day out for a lot of camp. And one of those guys where when they sign the undrafted class, you're like, oh, I recognize that name at least because he had seven interceptions the last couple years in the SEC, was projected by a lot of people to be like a fifth or sixth rounder. And we don't really know why certain dudes do and don't get drafted unless it's an obvious size

concern but um he didn't get drafted and the vikings got him and then they he wasn't one of the guys in their class who got a lot of guaranteed money which was interesting to me but the way he's played in training camp he stood out and brian flores was asked about him and gave some some high praise so uh very very curious to see what he can do in a live setting. There's other young guys in that room as well. I wonder, talking about if you're with the ones you don't play, I think we might still see a Caleb Evans who's been with the ones exclusively since Shaq Griffin got hurt, kind of their number two cornerback. Maybe Fabian Moreau is now ahead of him in that range.

But a Caleb Evans has been impressing me a little bit these last couple of days and reminding why we were excited about him a couple of years ago and why he's shown flashes and why they drafted him in the fourth round. It's, it's the size and the speed and what he can do against the ball when he's playing well. So curious to see if he gets any opportunities here and then if he can um continue to carry those over i don't know exactly i mean byron murphy's the only guy i can say 100 won't play um well shack griffin too because he's injured but um like do we see any fabian morrow do we see i will see a lot of like jay ward um i'm blanking on some other corners no i was gonna bring up jay ward because uh under normal

circumstances duke shelly yeah well we kind of know the duke yeah but under normal circumstances if this was a veteran quarterback who we all knew we would go into this saying jay ward is one of the more interesting stories because he was a do-it-all guy when they drafted him. And then he got here and he played a little nickel, but mostly safety. He started training camp at safety, and then they had the injury to Makai Blackman, and he just moves over to corner. And it's not nickel corner, it's outside corner, which I didn't really expect, but he did play in college to some extent. Look, I don't know how to evaluate every single rep from a

cornerback, but he has looked like a natural outside corner. And I wondered if it was just a one day thing until they could get Fabian Morrow in, but he stayed there and he's taken a lot of reps with the second team. And if they sort of fell backwards into a good cornerback here, that would be quite a story because i think he's he's looked like he's done pretty well so that's another one to watch is he going to look good in the actual games because i guarantee we're going to see jay ward playing he is not of the caliber that they would they would have no one left if they uh no and i forgot about the um guy they literally took in the second round two years ago, Andrew Booth Jr., who – Are we watching Andrew Booth Jr. at this point?

It's the last stand. I'm all set, I think. In preseason. We might be done. I think I'm good. It's the last stand on him and obviously Louis Steen if he's healthy enough to play. A.J. Green is another guy in that cornerback room who made a –

Great pick today. Insane one-handed interception today in a one-on-one rep. He jammed Tristan Jackson at the line, then ran with him and made a one-handed pickception today in a one-on-one rep he jammed tristan jackson at the line then ran with him and made a one-handed pick with his left hand like his yeah like the hand you wouldn't expect him to make a one-handed pick with and then the whole db scooped it the whole db room just lost their minds after that so ran onto the field it was an unbelievable if you made it during the a game they would show it over and over and over it was a great play um so that's another guy deep down that that cornerback um so that's another guy deep

down that that cornerback depth chart that's trying to make this roster um i think he's actually a little i think he's like 25 26 yeah more of a he's more of a practice squad now that you can have veterans but but with ward specifically i think we're trying to answer the question that's a fascinating one because did you find something because of the position switch and because of the just size and the athleticism that he brings and the versatility. That would be a really interesting one if he's able to play well there. So, yeah, the cornerbacks are going to be interesting. If there's a guy who's – like who would this year's Ivan Pace Jr. be

where we see him play in one preseason game and we're like oh maybe don't play him next week because we're gonna need him uh in week one which turned out to absolutely be the case with Pace I I don't necessarily know the answer to that off the top of my head if if there might be one I mean I think it's Levi Drake Rodriguez okay as the seventh round because he's gotten consistent first team reps now for four straight days. Yeah. And that puts you in a different category one day. Okay. Maybe they're giving you a shot, but four straight days. Now you're a guy to them.

So if he gets in and plays well, then they might just put them on ice and say, we're going to need you. I'll give you a UDFA. Who's just starting to get a little buzz, just starting to get a little attention. He's stacked together a couple of very nice days i personally have been mentioning him since minicamp when he stood out to me and if this guy turns out to be good i'm gonna look at myself as having elite scouting instincts what position is this wide receiver okay it's just sean jones it's just sean jones it has to be he's made a ton of catches I liked what I saw in minicamp today.

He must add four more catches. He was all over the field. He has been for probably the last few practices. This is either going to be an Isaac Frick D thing where we're like, Oh yeah. What a, you know, he always was making catches with the third team and we never talked about him again,

or it's going to be like a BC Johnson, Chad BB, where we never expected and then the guy suddenly makes the roster i think he's going to see a ton of work in this game so i have him circled on my little list i am interested to get on the just sean jones hype train that that's a good one on the offensive side i like he's been by far of their, um, two or three undrafted rookies at receiver. He's,

he's just been the guy who's popped. Um, I think offensively, I'm curious to see who plays running back because I don't think we'll see any Aaron Jones. Well, we won't see any Aaron Jones guaranteed. I don't think we'll see Ty Chandler either.

They shouldn't. They, yeah, they shouldn't. They know what Ty Chandler is. Uh, Aaron Jones didn't practice today. He got a vet day because he's 29 and gets injured sometimes in the past uh which is smart for them to not play him every day in training camp so it was a lot

of ty chandler but then you had kane wong mixing in you had miles gaskin i think we'll see those guys i think we'll see duane mcbride as well um and what do they have in the depth at that group just in case you were to have an injury to one of your top two guys, Myles Gaskin's a guy who's done it before, and had some real production in the past, a few years back with the Dolphins, so kind of curious to see him, he's a guy who can help out as a receiver as well, which can be useful for playing alongside a rookie quarterback, and then Kene Wonguong like is he is he ever within his fourth year is he ever going to be a guy who's in the mix to to do anything on

offense probably not barring an injury but maybe uh and then duane mcbride i don't even know if if he's like a practice squad guy still or whatnot because um that was that was all that that happened with him last year after they took him in the seventh round i think uh that this is going to come down to whether they have to do anything at this position is all kenny wong because he's gotten a ton of reps in camp if they like what they see in the games then all right maybe we don't have to sign somebody else but if they do not like what they've seen, then it could be someone who gets cut. Someone who has a good training camp somewhere else.

Some veteran who's still out there. What's behind Ty Chandler does not give me a ton of confidence right now. I'm going to ask you the dumbest question I've ever asked you. And maybe the dumbest question I'll ever ask you. Or a low bar. We think the score is going to be? How about we predict this one? I think, let me, before I do that,

I don't know if you're trying to wrap things up here, but talking about Kene Wongwu, I am genuinely very excited for special teams. Oh, yes, for this game, for sure. We got a new kickoff. Hunting competition. New kickoff thing competition new kickoff format we've never seen before which they're not going to show all their tricks now but i'm excited to watch it's gonna look weird i think it's cool though i think it's smart if you can do

anything to eliminate injuries or cut them down you should do that and i think um i was never i've never been a big like xFL watcher in the spring. I'm usually watching random April baseball games. But I've seen some highlights on Twitter over the years from this kickoff looking kind of fun. And you can do creative things with it. And Matt Daniels was talking about that today, how it opens a lot of can of worms with the blocking schemes you can try to set up. And you can use also real players potentially as on the coverage team or on the return team. Starters, you mean.

They're all real. Starters. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like starting offensive and defensive players because they don't have to run 40 yards downfield and hit guys anymore. It's just kind of like another play in a lot of ways. So I'm excited about that i'm excited about the punting competition where they were going to switch off ryan wright and seth

vernon and see who can uh situationally every other punt let's go yeah it's it's i mean obviously you don't want to be punting a million times but they got to evaluate that and then you know if we get in field goal range i let's let's give the the fans a show and what's field goal range 62 yeah like cross midfield i mean will reichard i don't i don't want to overhype it because vikings kickers and rookie and all that but he just destroys everything he kicks in uh in training camp and they're all like they sail through the uprights and they're good from 15 20 yards further than they need to be even when he's kicking from like 50 which is

crazy to say but so game is harder you know that's live there's people coming at you uh there's pressure uh but it'll be that'll be that'll be fun to see the the kid go out there and kick because i i think he's gonna be pretty good so what's the score? What do we think? Yeah. I got to get back to that. Yeah. What do you think? Think this over. I think hard. I think the Vikings will win their first preseason game of the Kevin O'Connell era. I'm just going to go positive. I think JG McCarthy will be pretty good. I think we'll record will be pretty good. I think some of the other guys that we've just mentioned,

we'll do some cool things. Maybe a Deshaun Jones touchdown. should i just get that out there right now uh nick muse dominates oh nick nick muse is a preseason guy for sure yeah he's gonna get like seven catches for 60 yards three touchdowns or something yeah no that's a good one i think the vikings will win it'll probably be some weird like 22 to 16 score or something like that. But okay. Here's, here's a better question. Actually 22 to 16 is a great preseason score. What's JJ McCarthy stat line since we're doing, it's a very end of the show.

If you've made it this far, this is your reward. Yeah. I'll go with seven for 11 with 87 yards and two scrambles for 15 yards and no tighties one touchdown no interceptions okay i like that i think you might give i might throw more than 11 times maybe um i'll say 10 for 14 for like 120 two touchdowns oh okay two touchdowns and an interception he's oh okay got a pick in there yeah all right highs and lows and maybe it gets deflected i don't know it was the dumbest question i've ever asked you but i enjoyed talking about it and uh it would have been maybe funnier if we had spent the whole time just arguing about his stat line for this game. No, he's going to throw two touchdowns.

We'll save that for fantasy podcasters. I'm excited for preseason football. I know. I haven't been in a long time, but I am. I'm not afraid to say it. There's just a feeling a little bit, and it has been this way for a while. It's like when you get to springtime and the weather gets to about 70 degrees and you open the windows for the first time and you go, man, that that's, that's a different feeling. And it's

a nice one. And things are very different now across the board, studying a quarterback every day, watching him in preseason. And I think everybody is, is very excited. The fans are very excited to see him for the first time, put on the uniform and throw. So it's not silly to spend 90% of this podcast talking about it and throwing in to Sean Jones. So great stuff. We'll as always, and you and I will talk next week after we have a real preseason game to

discuss. So thanks as always for your time and thanks for watching and we'll catch y'all next time. Football football.