Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - After whipping the Lions, is it time to talk about the Vikings getting back in the race?

Episode Date: November 8, 2020

So the Vikings killed the Lions. We first need to talk about how the Lions are an embarrassment and it's astonishing that they kept Matt Patricia as their head coach. After that, we break down the positives that came out of the game, compare Dalvin Cook and Adrian Peterson and talk about how there's a rosey and cynical view of this win. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Folks, do you feel like everything these days is go, go, go? It's non-stop, from work, to friends, to family, and a million pressing issues. Sometimes you just need to take a playoff and hit the reset button. That's when you reach for a Coors Light. It's made to chill. Hey, it's that time of year in Minnesota again to get out on the lake, go to the cabin, sit back, watch the baseball. Coors Light is the perfect refreshment to chill during these summer months. There's only one beer out there that's made to chill. The mountains on the bottles and cans turn blue when your beer is cold,

and that way you know it's time to chill. Hit that reset button with some mountain cold refreshment. Coors Light is cold lager, cold filtered, and cold packaged. It's literally made to chill. It's crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. Coors Light is the one you should choose when you need to unwind, when you want to hit the reset button, reach for the beer that is made to chill. Get Coors Light in the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart,

Coors Brewing Company, Golden, Colorado, and as always, celebrate. I'm Shanae Obumike. I'm Lisa Leslie, and we're very excited to tell you about our new podcast with Blue Wire, Front and Center. Lisa and I are breaking down what's going on in our lives, in the world, and keeping it 100. We're also learning from amazing guests as well, like Emmanuel Acho. People that show love to me, I forever got their back. Vivica A. Fox. If the foundation isn't right, then the rest of it's going to go wrong from there.

And more. Subscribe to Front and Center today. Hello and welcome to the post. Oh my gosh, the Lions are even worse than we thought they were. What reaction here on Purple Insider. Matthew Collar, intern Paul. I am in physical pain from watching that football game, Paul. I have seen some pretty bad performances against the Vikings at US Bank Stadium, but the Lions put, aside from two blocked punts, they put their names right up there in the rafters as teams that came in with the bad play of the Detroit Lions who should tell their

coach to get an Uber and take that back to Michigan. The worst coach in the NFL, I think Adam Gase is a genius compared to Matt Patricia. At least the Jets have the excuse of not having any talent. The same with the Jaguars. The same with the Giants. Their coaches, like they're bad, but they don't have any talent. The Lions have talent and that's what they do. They give up almost 500 yards and 34 points and a 70 yard touchdown in which they had 10 men on the field. Incredible stuff from the Detroit Lions. So Paul, anyway, how are you? I'm good. We're used to seeing these performances at US Bank Stadium, but usually that's with fans in the stands that are rattling the opposing quarterbacks, young quarterbacks, young coaches.

None of that was the case today. It was another silent game. Matt Patricia has been there for a while. Matthew Stafford's been there for a while. He threw three picks. They insisted on handing Adrian Peterson the ball instead of DeAndre Swift or Kerryon Johnson. Adrian Peterson, by the way, worst PFF-graded running back, but they kept handing it off to him. So there's lots of stuff we can get into, and we'll just start right there because I think

that's what you want to talk about. You were stuttering with your words as we opened this. You're just in disbelief of how bad the Detroit Lions are. So I don't even know if I have it. This is a question, but the Lions are just horrific. It's just a statement. I don't know what the question is. Maybe it's how did Matt Patricia survive this long? How did the Lions have hype coming into this season? How did we not see this?

How did people not see this coming? But just go where you want with this because they were bad today. Yeah, two picks by Stafford and one by Chase Daniel, who was forced to come in the game late by the Vikings. But the two picks by Stafford, a.k.a. the most overrated quarterback in the NFL, and those two interceptions are exactly why he is the most overrated quarterback in the NFL. Now, at some point during last offseason, someone asked me whether I would take Cousins or Stafford first. And I think I may have said Stafford.

And if I did, I take it back. He is just as much a part of their failures as Matt Patricia is with their defense. Because Stafford finds a way to get sacked by Shamar Steffen. He finds ways to throw interceptions right to linebackers. I mean, I had a really good view from the press box of the interception he threw to Eric Hendricks in the end zone. It was right into double coverage at the back of the end zone. I have no idea what he saw there.

Stafford is a sack and turnover machine, so for every cool throw that he has, like he had one who's kind of backhanded or he throws a laser beam to somebody and you're really impressed, there's an interception, there's a fumble, there's a sack coming. Per 16 games over the last six seasons, Matt Stafford takes 10 more sacks than Kirk Cousins, who we complain about how much he takes sacks. So I take that back if I said that somewhere along the line. I'm amazed at the national praise for Matt Stafford when he continues to be just this kind of up and down 500 type of quarterback who is incredibly overpaid and really not that good and shouldn't scare any team who's going up against Matt Stafford. So there's first. And without his top receiver, he does get a little bit of that.

But the Lions couldn't even find a way to get the ball to Marvin Jones, who generally kills the Vikings. And as you mentioned, they decided that one of their game plans was going to be to give the ball to Adrian Peterson a bunch. Nonsense. Just nonsense. DeAndre Swift is fast. He quick he's shoots through holes he seems to be able to catch the ball sometimes other times he drops it but he's good give him the football and

he was good today and they had him touch it I think 13 times and Adrian Peterson is getting six handoffs for 20 yards at one point they're at the goal line and they line up Adrian Peterson is getting six handoffs for 20 yards. At one point, they're at the goal line, and they line up Adrian Peterson in the slot and then target him. You've got to be out of your skull. Like, this guy can't play anymore. He's averaged two yards a carry since week two. He's dusted. He's been dusted.

He wasn't good the last time we saw him here and has never been good since. And your game plan is to give him the ball? What? And then at the goal line, third and one, the Vikings have a cornerback named Chris Jones, who I've never heard of before, who was playing for them today. And your plan at the goal line is not to attack Chris Boyd, a seventh round special teamer starting, or Jeff Gladney, who last week got annihilated twice at the goal line by Devontae Adams, or Chris, whomever you are, Jones. Your plan is to hand it off to Adrian Peterson in a big package in the backfield. That's not a good play with almost every running back in the league, much less the most washed-up running back since Emmitt Smith played for the Cardinals. And that's only the offense, Paul.

That's only the offense of how bad the Detroit Lions were today. On the defensive side, as I mentioned, they had 10 men on the field to give up a 70 yard touchdown they're running zero blitzes with nine men in the box at Delvin Cook well the Kirk Cousins just stands back there on play action and throws the wide open receivers down the field for I mean the first two touchdown drives I don't think he got pressured I don't know if he got pressured the whole game and then there's one-on-one coverage everywhere for him to throw to this is the quarterback who can dominate when he has time to throw when he has one-on-one coverage when teams play a single safety

and if this was the Tampa Bay Bucs for a few years ago who were horrible and uh remember when Case Keenum went off against them and it was just as bad. It was a game just like this. But you go, well, okay. I mean, the Bucs never see the Vikings. So you could understand how they wouldn't really game plan properly, I guess. This is a team that just gave up 141 quarterback rating to Kirk Cousins last year doing the same stuff. This is a team that spent a third overall pick on a corner they spent a bunch of money on the defensive side they signed Jamie Collins they've they put everything into this defense and they're an embarrassment and how they keep this man Matt

Patricia as their head coach is stunning so Vikings fans here's one thing to keep in mind from this is when you talk about potentially firing Mike Zimmer, remember how bad it can be if you make the wrong coaching hire. It can be that bad, that bad. So if you are a Vikings fan right now today and you're excited about the potential that the Vikings could make the playoffs still somehow in a magical run, I don't blame you. That's, it was a good win. But you better hope that Matt Patricia doesn't get fired before week 17

because that could be the game. That could be the difference-making game week 17 at Detroit. You want Matt Patricia to be the coach. Okay. Do you want to talk about the Vikings at all? Because I am just mind blown that this guy continues to be their head coach and this is how they play they have a lot of talent on their team a lot of talent you go through their roster like that should be like a 500 team or a little better you I saw snarked about it on

Twitter how everyone in the offseason looked at their roster and said well they you know they've got a chance to win the north I don't't even disagree. Roster-wise, this is a team that has no idea what they're doing with their coach, and I can't believe he's still there. So that's that. We'll get to the Vikings, but I just want to expand on a couple points you brought up there. One thing I was just trying to think about is when Mike Zimmer sees that Matt Patricia is the next coach like on the schedule like what is he thinking and the one thing that came to my head is Mike Zimmer is the Yankees and Matt Patricia is the Twins when they meet in the playoffs so when Mike Zimmer starts the week

he's like oh we got Twins in the playoffs we're the Yankees we've beaten the crap out of them for years on end like this is going to be easy and then it happens and then everyone gets super excited about them and then maybe they don't do anything later but they beat up on the twins they beat up on the lions and so this was the perfect game for mike zimmer to keep the momentum going to continue playing the game that he wanted to play the dalvin cook show the don't really let kirk do anything he did a little bit more today but really not that much meaningful that was more it was just like stand in the pocket and go to your first read off the Don't really let Kirk do anything. He did a little bit more today, but really not that much meaningful. That was more. It was just like stand in the pocket and go to your first read off the play action,

and it's probably going to be open because it's the Lions. And then before we get to the Vikings, you mentioned Matt Stafford in there. And the overall perception of Matt Stafford has always been something that's just been a little bit interesting to me. He started kind of overrated coming out of Georgia. He was the gunslinger. And I think he probably had hype coming out and just in the first couple years, oh, they're bad. And I think we kind of overrated him then. And then he went through a little drought where the Lions were just always irrelevant. We just didn't talk about them.

He may have gotten a little bit underrated. But then after that year, last year with Darryl Bevel, he got hurt. And then you saw everything bad that happened to the Lions. People were like, oh, Matt Stafford, Darryl Bevel, they're going to come back. And I think he once again is now overrated because we just saw he wasn't very good. There was a lot of talk about, oh, if Chase Daniel has to start this game, it's an easy win for the Vikings because Stafford was on the COVID reserve list for a while. I don't think it would have mattered who was in there after what we just saw. So the fact that Stafford could have moved to the Vegas line or done anything to impact this game, we found out wasn't the case, but yeah, if,

unless you've got any other more Detroit thoughts, we'll get to the Vikings. Okay. So I'll just follow up on that. Yeah. Since Matt Patricia took over at no point, have you looked at the Detroit lions and said, Oh, that could be a problem. Every game that they have played, Delvin cook has destroyed them. And Kirk cousins has looked either real good or great.

I wouldn't say that last year in the David Blau game, cousins lit them up, but it just didn't matter. I mean, they were ahead and David Blau wasn't scoring. And that was that, but the game where they got in a shootout with Stafford in Detroit, they played the same defense. I don't know that they change anything. I, I asked Gary Kubiak about it and he did say that you can never

go into a game assuming they're going to play the same defense and he dropped like, oh, he's from the Belichick tree. Yeah, that, that tree's got some rotten fruit on it that has dropped off the tree, man. I think that there have been a few guys like Brian Flores, who is really good in Miami, and he might turn out to be the best success story off of the Belichick tree. But when these guys who are just wannabe Belichicks. They want to build their team like Belichick. They want to be like, oh, hard ass, whatever, crazy kooky stuff like Joe Judge not taking Golden Tate on the road with them to play Washington because his wife tweeted that he was open last week. I mean, just bizarre stuff that these guys do. Yelling at a media member for slouching in his chair it makes them look even more ridiculous and

it also makes you think I guess Belichick is probably doing all the scheming there and the defensive coordinator just gets more credit than he deserves although in the Super Bowl right Patricia got hired still as the head coach of Detroit in the Super Bowl against Nick Foles he his defense got destroyed and they looked pretty much like they did today against the Vikings. So, all right. Yeah. Let's get to the things that went well for the Vikings, though, Paul.

Well, well, first, they're now at three and five. Their playoff chances before this game were right around eight percent, I think, according to Football Insiders. Detroit was right around 14 percent. I would imagine those are going to like basically flip. There's now nine teams ahead, a better than a three and five record as we're recording this after the noon games on Sunday. So not that many spots to make up potentially if they were going to make a run. And I think more than maybe what we can take from this performance or last week's

performance is just what they have on the schedule coming up next because it's Chicago it's Dallas it's Carolina and it's Jacksonville in the next four so all those very winnable games I know they go to Soldier Field but then the next three are all at home it's going to be Garrett Gilbert it's going to be a Teddy return and it's going to be Gardner Minshew maybe so suddenly they're at three and five it's still not likely but they are gaining some momentum it seems like they're going to be able to continue to play the game that they want to play these next couple games because the offenses are bad so if they can get a lead early they can do what they've been doing. So is 15% maybe kind of the right spot to be at? Assess that and like how excited should fans get? Should they be hoping for a playoff thing or

where are we right now? Well, it's very clear to me that this team is not bad enough to be in the running for Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields or after the way Zach Wilson played against Boise State, a ranked team. So anybody who tweeted me, he hasn't played anybody. Yeah, well, he kicked the ever-loving hell out of Boise State. So now he's played a top 25 team and demolished them, meaning that Zach Wilson will probably be the third overall pick or fourth overall pick. And that makes things very tough for the Vikings.

So people who have been doing the skull searching with me, well, if they lost today, I would have said ramp it up to 11 with the skull searching for quarterbacks. But now you might be looking at, if you still want to draft quarterback, guys that are in the mid first round round or trading up or whatever else. I think this eliminates a lot of that conversation for now or shelves it. That doesn't mean we'll stop skull searching, though, Paul. It just means that we're going to have to talk about Kyle Trask and we're going to talk about Mac Jones and other guys like that.

But beyond that point, you're right about the upcoming schedule. Garrett Gilbert, could be Jake Luton, who played pretty well against the Houston Texans. I think that I would decide based on them against Chicago. Because Chicago is a house of horrors for the Vikings. It always is. I'll never pick the Vikings to win in Chicago. Because no matter how bad the Bears have been or how good the Vikings have been, they always seem to falter there.

And over the summer, you even did research on that that showed the incredible nature of how often the Vikings have lost in Chicago. But I also think, too, that the key to the last two wins is that the Vikings' offensive line has been legit great. Open holes for Delvin Cook, no pressure whatsoever on Kirk Cousins and Cousins when he has no pressure we've always known this he can stand back there he can fire away he's going to be accurate down the field he's going to drop it in the bucket 40 yards down the field like he did today a couple of times that's what he can do when there's no pressure but going up against

chicago their defensive line is a completely different story from the last two teams that they've faced that's a real test plus if you go to four and five and then chicago only has five wins all of a sudden okay you've got a home game against chicago coming up after that and you're hoping that somebody else along the way can falter, you're right that all of a sudden you went from 13 teams that were behind you to nine, as we're talking about this right now, and it looks more realistic. My thing is, if they don't win against Chicago, the dream is more or less over because I don't think they're going to beat the Saints. I don't think they're going to beat Tampa Bay.

And there's another loss that's coming. I just don't know where or when. This team still has a lot of flaws. And really, a different interpretation of this game could be, wow, you kind of almost gave it away and they just gave it back to you. They blocked two punts, but the one could have put Detroit right back in the game. At one point, Stafford is something like 16 for 17 passing. You're not covering anyone. You're missing tackles from Marvin Jones to get into the end zone. They're running the ball effectively when they finally decided to give it to their good young running back as opposed to their bad ancient running back.

And the game is close. It seemed like you've outplayed Detroit by a ton and yet it's 13 to 10 with a minute to go in the second quarter and then Detroit just says Delvin huh never heard of him why why would we cover Delvin Cook on a key drive with a minute left I don't get it like can he do stuff I stuff? I don't know. Let's just leave them wide open to run for 30 yards. And then somehow Amir Abdullah revenge game ends up scoring. It's like watching Kansas on Saturdays, watching the Detroit lions. I am now calling the Detroit lions NFL Kansas. Like just, they can't do anything right. Um, but if you kind of go back

through that thing with a fine-tooth comb it's like yeah even though you killed them there were just these different spots in the game where you say would a good team have taken care of what the vikings there would a good team have made them pay for that uh or even another bad team at some point do we see another atlanta? So I look at them down the stretch and I say, you've pretty much got to beat Chicago twice. And if you do that, you've got a good shot at it. But the hold that they dug early in the season, it's still very, very deep at this moment,

even though they're kind of back in that mix. Yeah, and the offensive line did play well. The Detroit Lions, they're like 26th. There's something in like the pass rush win rate that ESPN does. They're like bottom 15 in the run fit like win rate in the ESPN thing too. So they're just not a very good defense. They're back half by all metrics. But the way the offensive line was playing earlier in the season,

the fact that they're dominating anyone is a story. And suddenly, I don't, maybe if they hope to try to keep Riley Reif throughout, or like through the next couple seasons, now I kind of see the path. If you like Riley Reif, you like Brian O'Neill. Ezra Cleveland looks great at guard. Bradbury's never been a problem in the run game. The whole offensive line statistically is another top five run blocking team. It's just the pass blocking. But if they have that run blocking,

and then they're getting a defensive performance like what they got today, that's really all they need. The pass rush won't be as strong. So it makes sense maybe why they chose to keep Reif only if they feel like they can keep him moving forward. Or if for some reason they were only going to get a seventh round pick and they'd just rather have him in there to like keep the quarterback safe for this year and let Ezra like continue to grow till he takes over that spot.

But yeah, Detroit wasn't a great team, but it's, it's still encouraging to see the offensive line play the way that it did. And yeah, I mean, I think we have to talk about Dalvin Cook a little bit. 206 yards after 163 last week. I was looking up, especially because I was watching Adrian Peterson just run the ball. I was like, I was wondering what the best two-week stretch for Adrian Peterson was.

It was 366 yards. So Dalvin has the best two-week stretch for Adrian Peterson was, it was 366 yards. So Dalvin has the best two-game stretch, better than any stretch that Adrian Peterson had. Adrian Peterson's came in week 14-15 of his historic 2012 MVP season. So, I mean, Dalvin would have to do much, much more. He'd have to go for another, like, 210 yards to match what Peterson did in a three-week span but in a just a purely two-week span he's matched him and done just a little bit better and so that made me think prime Dalvin versus prime AP it's probably still prime AP but the way that the league is played now the way that Dalvin can catch the ball uh the way he can just be moved around in offense it it brought me to this conversation and I wanted to get your opinion on prime Dalvin, prime AP, especially in an NFL like we have right now. I want to remind you to go to SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods.

For all of you hunters out there, SodaStick has some very cool hunting gear available that you need to check out, including their Mick Goldenlight Hunting Club hats that our pal Jeremiah Searles has been wearing lately on his excursions. All their apparel is screen printed here in Minnesota on super soft, super comfy shirts and hoodies. You will love it. We're going to also hook you up with free shipping on your next order. Use the promo code PURPLEINS purple insider for free shipping that is sodastick s-o-t-a-s-t-i-c-k.com original minnesota sports inspired goods code purple insider for free shipping

let me first say that vikings fans you are blessed because you think about it this way in 1998 randy Moss shows up here and is the most dynamic player maybe in history. I mean, outside of what? Like Gale Sayers? I mean, there's only Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, like five players that are in Randy Moss's air in history in terms of excitement and big play possibilities and so forth, right?

So you go from him, and then he's gone and Adrian Peterson comes in, and it's the same sort of thing. I mean, for a little while, they're best running back in the NFL or top three at any time and just a master of breaking huge runs. So Adrian Peterson leaves. The guy you draft in the second round becomes the best running back at running the football in the NFL. Now, he doesn't do what Alvin Kamara does, line up at wide receiver all the time.

He doesn't do what Christian McCaffrey does. But neither one of those guys routinely break 70-yard touchdowns like Delvin Cook does on a weekly basis. And a former Viking, J. Ron Kearse, was running alongside him trying to catch him on that 70 yard run and was just losing ground without a football in his hands like that's how fast the play speed of delvin cook is on the field i don't care what everybody's 40 says when he's actually on the field he's one of the fastest players that i have ever seen running with the football the thing that makes delvin cook different

than adrian peterson and in my opinion better Because if you look at their yards per carry now for their careers, it's about the same, Delvin Cook and Adrian Peterson. Now, Peterson's been dragged down a little bit, of course, by the last couple of years. But even in his prime, if you search in his prime, it's not that far away from Delvin Cook's, and the big play potential is exactly the same. But on the second touchdown to Irv Smith, there was a little play action and Delvin Cook threw his body into a defender and stopped the rush and allowed Kirk Cousins to easily flip the ball to Irv Smith. Never saw that often from Adrian Peterson. The pass blocking element of it, the fact that he is great in the screen game and has such great open field vision, which I don't know that Adrian Peterson in the passing game had any feel for catching the ball and running after the catch.

Even today, you could see it from where I was in the press box. Maybe on TV it didn't really show it. But Adrian Peterson ran a little kind of check down route, and he just let himself get way too far, and as soon as he caught the ball, Jeff Gladney just took him down. He was in a good space, and then just sort of drifted into a space that was right near a defender, and he was easily tackled. Dalvin Cook has such a great feel for when he gets the ball, where he's going to go with it in that screen game. And I think that he could even go down the field if they wanted him to, though I wouldn't change a

thing. So I think that at least right now, which is peak Delvin versus peak Adrian Peterson, one of them is a better all-around player than the other. And they're very close in terms of the explosive and big play possibility. I'm not going to say Cook is quite on the level of Peterson as a pure running back. But when you add those other things together, I think it's in that ballpark. And the sample is growing with Cook. Like the longevity of Adrian Peterson is going to be a major part of his legacy. It's incredible for running backs.

You just don't see it anymore. You probably won't ever see it again. But at least when we're talking about each player at their best, each guy could go the distance on any given play. Each guy can carry his team. I mean, that's what Delvin Cook has done these last two weeks. Cousins has been great. And this is the version of Cousins that Mike Zimmer dreamed of. A guy who just makes the throws that he has to make, as opposed to having to carry his team on his back, and let Delvin Cook run a 70-yard touchdown and run four touchdowns in one game and just be that player. The question is, when you play Chicago, when you play Tampa Bay, these teams with great defensive lines, will this strategy work? It has not really worked in the past,

and I'm not certain that it works in the future either. At some point in today's NFL, you have to win by having your quarterback be great, and it has to rest on his shoulders. And if they are going to get into the playoffs, that's going to have to happen. I think they'll still hit some bumps in the road there, and they'll probably end up being something like seven and nine but Delvin Cook is looking at missing a game

and potentially leading the NFL in rushing I mean this could be a modern historic season for Delvin Cook yeah and the point you made transitions really well into the next question I want to ask is basically is this sustainable I know the Dalvin Cook rushing yards and that stuff's not sustainable, but the way they're winning games right now, the way that they're using the run game, they're really not asking Kirk to do anything. The defense is playing really well. They did it against a team we think is good in Green Bay and a team we pretty much know is bad in the Lions. So it's going to get harder if they were to somehow make the playoffs or for the New Orleans, for the Tampas down the road, when things just

get tighter and teams are closer to the playoffs, the Bears are going to be in the hunt. It's going to get tougher next week. And so I just want to know the way that they're playing, is it sustainable? Because everything looked really, really smooth on offense. They basically could do anything they wanted. I don't really remember a time where they had like a negative play. It probably happened, but it's amazing. It was like every first down, you're giving it to Dalvin. I remember one time they ran it on second and 10, and I was like, oh no, and then Dalvin got like eight yards, and I was like, okay, well, maybe that's fine then, but just Kirk was standing straight in the pocket. It looked like every first read he wanted was open, and so it's not going to be as easy as it was today. But is this formula with the current cast of people that they have sustainable for success for the rest of the season? the team at least this week that we expected more than the one we saw against Atlanta.

We expected a team that would not be perfect defensively. We expected a team that would have an explosive offense and that would carry be carried by Delvin cook. And we expected Kirk cousins to kind of be Kirk cousins. And, you know, there's a, there's a part of you. If you're a Vikings fan that should feel a, like kind of encouragedins. And, you know, there's a part of you, if you're a Vikings fan, that should feel, A, kind of encouraged by, hey, you know, look at Ezra Cleveland and how well he's playing on the offensive line.

And finally, good offensive line performances. When have these happened before? But there's another part that should just have regrets. Like, this is a team that, you know, tried Drew Samia at guard for multiple weeks and he cost them games i think i mean when you go back and look closely i mean that's your kirk cousins strip sack that's how many pressures that's how many runs that are blown up in the backfield in comparison to even ezra cleveland if he's you know we'll have to look at the tape to see how

good he actually was this week but i mean looking mean, looking like he really fills that spot. Even if you had below average play, it would have been much closer to this version of the offense. There's another part of you that has to be a little frustrated with Kirk Cousins, too. Because it's just so typical. It's so typical of Kirk Cousins to win the games he's supposed to win or win the games when Delvin Cook dominates. But when you get behind early in a game against Atlanta, you can't bring the team back.

Or when you need a last drive from him against Seattle, your offensive coordinator would prefer to run it on fourth down than put the ball in your hands. And the big games that you needed, you came up short, and now you're having to play from way behind. You led the league in interceptions, and then now you're getting hot and getting those stats back up to where they were supposed to be. There's like a rosy view of, hey, look at this team making some progress,

and a, hey, this is who you're always going to be with Kirk Cousins. You're always going to beat the Detroit Lions when they have Matt Patricia as their coach, but can you beat the teams that are better? So, you know, I do think that where they are right now as a team is vastly better than where they were, but I also think that it's it's stunningly not different from the last few years the good teams that you played you didn't really show up the bad teams that you played you beat just like last year and now if you go down the stretch well you're probably going to have to beat some good teams to even get in the playoff mix and that's here we come again with a Kirk Cousins somewhere between seven and

nine and nine and seven season it's just remarkable how it always kind of ends up that way and I mean I I think that maybe the right place is somewhere in the middle uh to be uh happy about some of the things that they've seen but also with there's got to be some frustration when your quarterback leads the league in interceptions through the first, you know, five or six games. And then all of a sudden, Oh, the light comes on when the pressure is off and the schedule is easy. Yeah. And I don't, I don't know if these two games offensively have been like surprising in terms

of super positive. Like we knew Dalvin cook could do this. Yes. As their Cleveland was put in there and the offensive line looks better yes okay they got Herb Smith involved today but it's not like this offense is making huge amazing strides in these last two weeks to win them games what it's been has been the defense and the defense has been able to put them in positive game scripts on offense so they score right away they're never trailing in this game like they can run the ball whenever they want they can Mike Zimmer can whenever they want they can Mike Zimmer can come with a lot more exotic looks on defense which we saw this week a lot more like am I gonna blitz am I not I'm gonna come back like we're not just sitting in standard cover too like

we're gonna make you think a little bit more and so that all comes when you're up when you can hand the ball off and it works well but yeah coming because you're not in shootouts. It's not 7-7, you score, then two minutes later, the defense gives up a huge play. Like, I thought maybe that on the first play of the game, they go deep and I'm like, uh-oh, is someone going to be wide open? Is this going to be another one of those games?

I don't remember a huge deep shot that they like got consistently that really did much for them. So the defense, we talked about it last week. We asked, is it turning a corner? We corner we said okay we're seeing aspects of that this is what you'd see if they turned a corner they're turning the corner and now they're moving upward like this was a building block from last week they finally got some turnovers to go with some more solid play on third down in the red zone that they had had already this season and they're building upon

that and so like where does this rank for Mike Zimmer in terms of what he's been able to do with the defense? Because at one point, I had to look up. There was, like, I don't know his name. It's, like, Abdullah Anderson or something was in the game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was looking around going, who's number 66? What in the world?

And also, Chris Boyd is looking like a decent corner for a lot of that game. He missed a tackle at one point, but he's flying around. Jeff Gladney's making good plays. Like, everyone looked good today. Hercules Mata'afa got his first sack. We can talk about his story from the clown emoji to being back on the team to now getting a sack. But it's remarkable what the defense has done without Daniil Hunter,

without Anthony Barr, without their corners. Like, this is – even though it was Detroit, this is like big stuff. As an aside, James Lynch not being active over a guy that I'm not sure most of us knew was on the roster, not a great sign for James Lynch, but put that aside. So the way that I would look at this is the Detroit Lions certainly handed you a lot on offense. I mean, they helped you out a lot. And this goes where to luck, the schedule, the other teams you play, all plays into how good your defense is and how random defense can be. Because the two Stafford interceptions are both just abysmal I mean they're

just throwing the football right to a Vikings linebacker and it's like the Oprah gif where it's like and you get an interception you get an interception I mean both of those are so bad to be right there in the red zone and just give them away and that's kind of what Matt Stafford has done his whole career and why he doesn't win more is because there are so many of those where even field goals in those situations keeps the game close and gives you a chance if you're Detroit the worst thing is an interception coming away with no points and he found a way to do it and I don't know if I want to say hey wow look at this defense because he wasn't even pressured on either one of those. He dropped right back, stepped up, and threw it right to the Vikings player. So some of it is that you get lucky, you get a little help from the other team.

They have a bad strategy of, again, not giving it to DeAndre Swift more, but instead giving it to washed Adrian Peterson quite a bit in that game. And so I think they got a lot of help. And last week against the Packers, I think that 50 mile an hour wins were pretty helpful and no Aaron Jones was pretty helpful. And these are the things that kind of some things fall wrong for you. Like Hunter gets hurt or Pierce hops out or a team, you know, catches you when you make a mistake, as opposed to dropping the ball, they catch the ball and so forth. You get that kind of thing throughout the course of a season.

I don't look at this defense and say, wow, it's vastly better. They've all of a sudden figured it out. They could very well go to Chicago and get lit up by a pathetic Chicago offense because they just don't have a ton of talent on this defensive side. I will say this, that what a good defensive play caller and schematic wizard does for you is elevates the floor of how bad you can be as a defense. So we see on the other side, Matt Patricia, how bad can the Lions be on defense with about the same or maybe even actually more talent than the Vikings right now? About the same, probably. Vikings still have good players, but they spend a bunch of money on guys and draft picks on guys and an embarrassment. That's how bad it can be when you don't have the right scheme.

And for Mike Zimmer, teams get on third down. They get to the red zone and they struggle and there's confusion and he does things pressure wise that can help you out and so his adjustments uh to the lack of talent or the lack of depth or just injuries and bad breaks and so forth have given them a chance in these games even if they're not playing particularly well like i don't think that the defense for the first half played well um they got a couple of stops in key situations. That, again, goes back to what we thought this defense would be. Nobody thought they were going to be a top five defense with the change in talent, but this is what we expected them to look like with just being able to

get some key stops and give their offense a chance to, you know, to put up 400-plus yards, which they have the talent to do. So I think it goes back to the, you know, hey, when you talk about Mike Zimmer and hot seats and potentially getting fired and all things like that, just remember today. I'm not saying that they're going to win the rest of the way or that everyone will be thrilled with Zimmer at the end,

but keep in mind today because this was an example of two teams similarly in record, similarly in talent, and one blew the doors off the other one. Yeah, and I hear a lot about what you're saying. I don't think we can overemphasize how bad the Lions are, but I don't think we can overemphasize how bad the Vikings' defense was early in the season. So the fact that they're just doing this to anyone, regardless of if they're trying to give it away, is improvement. It doesn't mean that they're an elite defense,

but it means they're taking advantage of the bad things that an offense is doing, which I don't know if we can say early on. They were letting people get away with bad stuff that they were doing. And something I saw earlier from pro football outsiders that are earlier this week is the Vikings played the toughest schedule of opposing offenses according to the DVOA that they look at so the defense has been bad but they've played a lot of good teams I mean part of that is the Vikings contributed to them doing well but they played a lot of good teams and now they play two teams that have suspect offenses that have given stuff away and they've

played well. And now they're going to go to Chicago. They're going to play the Cowboys. They're going to play Jacksonville. They're going to play these bad teams. And so four weeks from now, we could have maybe three more of these performances and we're going to have to parse through, is this the team that they play and the bad things that they're doing?

Or is this defense actually doing something? It's going to be a storyline that we're talking about but if they take advantage of those things i think you at least have to say okay they're doing what good teams do they're taking advantage of the bad things that other teams are doing they're not dropping balls they're intercepting passes when they're thrown right at them they are just at least tackling guys they're not letting guys go 20 yards behind them for easy touchdowns. Like fundamentals seem to starting to be coming into place. They seem to be playing faster. Despite losing guys, they seem to be playing more cohesive and they seem to be having some

communication and they're going to have four weeks to build momentum and to build confidence as a defense to take in with them when they go play Tampa. And so they might not be a good defense at that point, but they're going to be probably a confident defense. And that's going to be, that at least says something and that's going to affect them moving forward because earlier in the season, they weren't a confident defense and you could tell, and they were getting burned because of it.

So even if it's a little false, it's like, you don't like, it might not be true. If they feel like it's true, I think it's going to help them. And I think it's going to propel them a little bit moving forward. Even though sports took a break, your business didn't. You have to keep moving. And that means hiring is more important than ever. Indeed is here to help. Indeed.com is the number one job site in the world because Indeed gets you the best people fast. Unlike other sites, Indeed gets you full control and payment flexibility over your hiring. You only pay for what you need. You can pause your account at any time, and there are no long-term contracts.

Plus, Indeed provides powerful tools to make your search that much easier, like sponsored jobs, which are shown to be three and a half times more likely to result in a hire, and with 73% of online job seekers visiting Indeed each month, Indeed is going to get you the important hire that you need, just like they have for over 3 million businesses. Right now, Indeed is offering our listeners a free $75 credit to boost your job post, which means more quality candidates will see it fast. Try Indeed with $75 credit at Indeed.com slash BlueWire. This is their best offer available anywhere. Go right

now. Indeed.com slash BlueWire. Terms and conditions apply. Offer valid through December 31st. You might not be at a game this year, but you can still be in on the action with BetOnline. BetOnline is going the extra mile to make sure you can get in on every possible chance to win We'll be right back. on wins, division championships, and futures all day, every day. Head to BetOnline today and take advantage of all the great sign-up bonuses. Don't forget to use the promo code BLUEWIRE at BetOnline.ag. That's BLUEWIRE, all one word, BetOnline, your online sportsbook experts. Let me give you the cynical view on all of that, because you laid out, I think, the rosy view of it. The cynical view of it is if you face a Dallas team that has receivers that get wide open all the time, even a backup quarterback can beat you.

This was a team that got beat by Matt Moore last year and Chase Daniel last year. So it's always possible that a backup quarterback or not a great quarterback with some good weapons when you have very poor cornerbacks can still sneak up and get you. So I'm not writing W's and elite defensive performances in with all of these weeks because, I mean, I think we even thought as Chase Daniels starts, they might be able to still move the ball pretty well against this Vikings defense. And when you don't pressure the quarterback, normally they don't throw interceptions right to the linebackers. Normally. That was a Matt Stafford thing today.

But when they were not pressuring him early in the game, again, he was like 16 for 17 or 17 for 18. I mean, he was completing every pass to his open receivers. And it took a really good play on the ball on the first play of the game. But that was always weird is they came out and attacked on the first play and then they just didn't really do it again throughout the game. But still, Stafford was picking them apart, picking them apart, and I think there are going to be a lot of other quarterbacks who can still do that.

Here's the other – now that's a small picture, is that they still can't get after the quarterback. The bigger picture is this is the path to 7-9 and the path to not getting your quarterback and the path to talking yourself into it. Talking yourself into it of, hey, we're the team that had that great second half of the season. All it was was this, this, and the other thing.

Those were the real problems. Once those got solved, once Zimmer schemed his his way then we got it all figured out and I would direct you to the Atlanta Falcons who last year I think went six and two down the stretch or something like that they were great and they said you know what we should keep Dan Quinn we should keep him around because we had a good second half of the season and then they came out and had to fire him a couple weeks in I'm not saying that Zimmer is as poor of a coach as Dan Quinn who I think really struggled post when they went to the Super Bowl but at the same time you shouldn't let small samples talk yourself into it look at the whole picture and where you want to go forward now I'm not saying at all that they

should fire Zimmer after the year, no matter what happens. I was just saying that I don't think firing Zimmer is always a great idea in every scenario that people talk about. Some people just want him fired no matter what, and I don't really subscribe to that. But when you get that seven and nine, hey, we were great in the second half of the season, it's the worst place in the world to be because then you don't get a game changer in the draft, but you're also still far away. If we start talking about the number of positions they will still need in order to be a great

team, not just a how can they compete, they still need two more defensive linemen for sure beyond just getting Hunter and Michael Pierce back. I don't know what they're going to do with Anthony Barr, but the cornerbacks are very much up in the air. We don't know if Jeff Gladney can play. We know that Mike Hughes has injury problems all the time. Cameron Dantzler, I mean, I hope he's okay after the way he got hurt two weeks ago. But at the same time, I mean, not showing anything that makes me say, oh, my gosh, they are all set there.

You know, they still have a lot of weaknesses as a team. And so you can get a little high on things bouncing your way in the second half of the season and talk yourself into it and then end up kind of stuck in the middle, which is where it feels like they ultimately might be. And so I look at this particular win and say, hey, that's a whooping that you just laid on the Detroit Lions. But there's also a ripple effect, a butterfly effect of every win that you just laid on the Detroit lions, but there's also a ripple effect, a butterfly effect of every win that you get against these bad teams that sort

of, Oh, see, all it is, is just, all we needed was just, and that might not be the best thing that happens to you. Again, not talking about tanking on purpose, but in connecting it to the Riley Reef non-trade, which came out today that there was a report that the Vikings had a chance to trade Riley Reef to the Tennessee Titans and didn't do it. And it speaks to the theory that they thought they were going to jump back in it. And they are jumping back in it.

But you gave up on whatever draft pick that you could have gotten in a year where you're not really competing for the Super Bowl. So there's that push and pull all times of, well, you got to win and a lot of things look good. And maybe this guy made progress and this guy didn't. But every win sort of pulls you toward status quo for 2021 and probably not drafting a quarterback. So is that the world you want to live in? So what else? Did we miss anything here, Paul? Well, I just want to clarify. Yeah, I didn't, the defense, I'm not saying it's

turning and now it's becoming a 20, the 2017 defense. I'm saying this is coming from like a bottom three defense to now, you know, we're like 18 to 20th, maybe. Like we've come to the point where we're respectable. Teams aren't just going gonna blow by us and we're gonna have to score 45 points to win a game uh i think we're seeing stuff that encourages them that they can be uh just a slightly below average team instead of being a horrible team but to make a point off one at your points like i think we always knew this was kind of heading for six and ten seven and nine like ever everything we know know about this team is this was gonna happen Zimmer wasn't gonna let this team just sit down and go three and thirteen Kirk was gonna have good games to where they weren't gonna be three and thirteen

Dalvin was gonna run for 200 yards a game for a game and just win it by himself when maybe they shouldn't and they were gonna win games like I was like watching on the red zone channel like Houston and Jacksonville play like they're better than both of those teams so like there's some there was some awful football being played today if you were looking around the league for it the Vikings have shown they're not in that class I don't think they were ever going to be in that class I think it was so for some fans it was hopeful that it would lead to that but the Vikings have shown that they aren't going to be the consistent losers that the Lions are, that we just saw on the other side.

If they were headed for that path, this would have been reversed. We would have seen what the Lions just did, but the Vikings would have done it themselves, and I think that's the danger, too, is if you fire Mike Zimmer, you're probably not getting a Matt Patricia, but you could have a below average coach. And you're seeing what the Lions thought a couple of years ago. We had Jim Caldwell. The message just got a little stale. We need a new voice in there.

We need someone to come help the defense because the offense is going to be fine. And then what happened is happening in Detroit. So making the change isn't always the best thing. And yes, getting your future franchise quarterback on a rookie deal is the best thing you could do. But I think we were maybe kidding ourselves a little bit when we thought they could get that low. And after the last couple weeks, and now we're starting to kind of see it regress to the mean, it's not going to be as good as it was this week, but it's not going to be as bad as it was in week one or week two.

And I totally agree with that. And that was a column that I wrote a few weeks ago about how, you know, they're just never going to be quite bad enough to compete with the Jets of the world. The Giants, I know, got a win today, but still they're very, very bad. You've got these other teams that are just abysmal. Jacksonville, they would be lucky to get to three wins this year, I think. And you were never going to get to three wins this year I think and you were never going to get to the Justin Fields or the Trevor Lawrence conversation but it was more of can you get into the top five in a very very good quarterback class because this is the year to do it think about how

go back through and you look at Zach Wilson what kind of prospect he's emerging as and he throws the ball I am not kidding like Aaron Rod. Like he has that kind of arm talent. But when you look at past years, there hasn't been this many good quarterbacks in the first round. 2018 was supposed to have a bunch of them. Josh Allen has played pretty well. Lamar Jackson has played pretty well. And you've got a couple of busts mixed in.

And that's usually how it goes. Maybe out of five that are first-rounders in a great year, you have two or three that turn out to be franchise quarterbacks. But there are some years where it's, what, Kyler Murray and nobody else. I was in Buffalo when it was E.J. Manuel, Ryan Nassib, Tyler Bray. Like we were talking about Mike Glennon and whether he was a franchise quarterback. The years, they vary pretty widely when it comes to how many good quarterbacks are coming out and it just so happened that the

year you start off tremendously bad is a year where there's a lot of really good quarterback prospects coming into the NFL and it sort of seemed like serendipitous a little bit and now it looks like well you're probably sticking with the same guy going forward and his contract does not open you up to getting rid of him anyway. You know, the Jimmy G idea is something that we'll explore on the podcast at some point this week. I've got a special guest to do that. But I mean, if you are the type of person, this is what I'm going to say about this game.

It really depends on who you are and how you look at this team. If you're the type of person who says, I really wanted a refresh of the organization. We only went so far with Zimmer and Cousins, and we'd love to see something new and exciting. Then this win today makes you go, meh. Okay, great. You beat the Lions. Good for you if you are the type of person that wants to see them make a playoff run and cares you know cares deeply about every game

and wants to see Zimmer succeed and wants to see Cousins succeed then this was a great day for you and that's where the I think going forward the fan base will be really split and where I would love to know is which side the Wilfs land on like were the Wilfs at one and five a little excited potentially about a franchise quarterback and making a change or do they get a win like this today and say okay let's go get those playoffs and we'll deal with everything else later let's get on a run here. And then, you know, the odds still suggest that you're going to be disappointed. But that's where this game is most interesting.

It's not most interesting on the field. On the field, it was pretty simple. The Vikings whooped the Lions, who are a joke. Like, there you go. That's the end of the story. But how it's looked at and what it matters for the big perception, I wrote in my column of Cousins versus Stafford, I wrote, the winner of this game, their organization might ultimately stick with them.

It might be a turning point. And the loser of this game, their organization might move on from them eventually because it might be a turning point. And I think that that's very possible for both sides. So anyway, well, this was great, Paul. Do you have any parting shot? Do you have any final thoughts? from our friend Mike Renner had Zach Wilson going third. So I think the hype is gaining and the hope could, we need some, maybe some Zach Wilson, just regression to maybe come back. So if the Vikings do get a top 10 pick,

he's right in there. Trey Lance was number seven, I believe. So if they get in there, if there's four of them, there's still a chance maybe you could get nab one of them or come up a few slots to get it. But I'm sure we'll have much more skull searching, and we'll have some segments coming up on those guys in particular to get a little bit more of a grip on those.

Yes, we will. And we've got to add some to the list. We've got to get Kyle Trask analysis in there. We've got to get Mac Jones. There are a couple other guys who have emerged as being pretty interesting. Ian Book gets a big win against Clemson. He played really well. I think he's in that conversation for like mid round intriguing guy.

So, uh, yeah, I mean, there's still like four months until the draft, so we'll have plenty of time to get there. Uh, Paul, great stuff as always appreciate your time. And thank you all for listening to, um, a somewhat ranty, uh, and then very reasoned podcast. We will, uh, talk to you again soon.