Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Andrew Krammer and Garret Greenlee break down KOC's approach to Steelers, Wentz-McCarthy

Episode Date: September 27, 2025

On this double feature episode Matthew Coller is first joined by Andrew Krammer of the Minnesota Star Tribune for a hardcore break down of Vikings-Steelers in Ireland. Then, Garret Greenlee of the YouTube channel Football Analysis joins to discuss Kevin O'Connell's handling of the Vikings offense and the Carson Wentz-J.J. McCarthy QB situation. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Try ZipRecruiter for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/audio Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fanduel. Matthew Collar here, along with Andrew Kramer, the Star Tribune, inside TCO Performance Center, the show that your favorite aggregator loves to cut and paste. Let's jump right in to Vikings and Pittsburgh Steelers. Every week, we do the hardcore breakdown. We look at the biggest matchups that will determine the outcome of the game, And then so far in our history, we've never actually picked one wrong. We've never picked a game wrong.

So you can always trust exactly what we say here. No, Andrew, I think we have to start with just Carson Wentz. There has been a whole week now spent breaking down his 20 passes and 14 completions. And what it really means, not only to just Carson Wentz, to Kevin O'Connell, to J.J. McCarthy, et cetera, et cetera. But why don't we just remove the noise for a minute? we'll circle back to that situation momentarily and just talk about what we expect from Carson Wentz against a defensive line that is very nasty for Pittsburgh, but a secondary that is very suspect. Yeah, it'll be an interesting matchup and one that I think bodes well for Carson and this Vikings offense

because Pittsburgh defense, as veteran-laden as they are, and as the talent you mentioned on the defensive line that they've got, they've given up nearly 400 yards in each of the first three games. That includes a New England team, at least being able to move the ball, not score too many points on them last week. So I think in general this is going to set up well for Carson to continue this momentum, having Darrasaw back, bringing Jordan Addison back into the mix. It's going to open up things a little bit, I think, schematically, with Addison back in the fold, too. So big picture-wise with this Vikings offense versus the Steelers defense, it's not going to look quite like it did against the Bengals, because the Bengals, I think, are the bottom tier of the NFL right now defensively. but it could look somewhat similar. I think it'll travel well,

specifically the run game with Jordan Mason. I know the Steelers have given up 100 yards on the ground in every game so far. Yeah, that's been very surprising for my Tomlin team. Though I do wonder about, with the secondary specifically, and we'll get into Jordan Mason and, wow, what he did last week. But when I watch Pittsburgh, I don't see the same things that I see with Flores. So when I look around the league, it's become to me the test

of if you play the Fangio system, yeah, you're not doing this as much. But if you're playing this style, what you want to be doing is moving around a lot of parts with your secondary, trying to create a lot of deceptions, a lot of coverages that start off looking one way, change to another, you know, all the floor of stuff. I just don't see so much of that with Pittsburgh. And I think that what Cincinnati did last week was pretty straightforward for Carson Wentz to read. And he saw where the coverages.

were headed. He realized when Justin Jefferson had one-on-ones, and I think that played into why he got rid of the ball so quickly. I mean, I think it was a factor that Derisaw was back, but I think maybe the biggest factor of how the offense and the passing game moved was the fact that Carson Wentz didn't have too many times where he dropped back and was like, oh, no, I'm very confused. It mostly was, oh, there's my read right in front of me, and I'm going to let this go. How that bodes for the future, I mean, we'll see if we even get to see. but when it comes to this game specifically, I think it's going to be a lot of similar types of things where he can understand this is cover three, this is cover four, and I don't think he's going to be shocked by anything when he's looking for Jordan Addison, when he's looking for T.J. Hawkinson and Justin Jefferson. Yeah, and that was the biggest thing was the clarity that he brought to the offense both before the snap and after the snap in his decision making, knowing where he wanted to go throwing with anticipation on a number of those plays. We heard coaches praised the 36-yarder before. for halftime. The 12-yard touchdown to Josh Oliver had a similar anticipation on that pivot

route. Those are the kind of things that the veteranness of the quarterback is going to bring that J.J. McCarthy just frankly was not in the first two weeks. And I thought it was interesting what Tomlin had to say about the position this week. I'm sure you might have already talked about it on your shows. But him going as far as to say, I don't think it's a bad thing that Carson Wentz is in for the Vikings. He said last week or last year, excuse me, when they played the Colts, he told his guys to keep Anthony Richardson up. Do not let them put but Joe Flacko in the game. Tomlin is going to have a lot of respect for a veteran quarterback.

He obviously has gone through the doldrums here of bringing in Russell Wilson, bringing in Aaron Rogers when Kenny Pickett didn't work out. So he's trying to stabilize his system. He's seeing how Wentz is stabilizing the Vikings. And I think he's smart to kind of be wary of how this Vikings' offense now can start to kind of resemble what they wanted if Wence can be that kind of mistake-free, for the most part, mistake-free, turnover-free quarterback for them. So I did not actually really talk too much about what he said, but I thought it kind of went without saying that when a quarterback comes in and averages nine yards, an attempt has a hundred and twenty-eight quarterback rating and found Justin Jefferson and Pro Bowl tight end and got good blocking and could running.

I mean, I don't know. It looked a little bit better than when they scored six points and couldn't do anything. So also, if you're a coach who's been around a long time, you know that you can fool a young quarterback, that you can rattle a young quarterback. And I think even when Carson Wentz got hit a few times, took a couple of sacks, there was no panic in him. And I also think that they did a good job after those drives that didn't go well of flipping the field with punting and things like that. And I just think that with Wentz, you're playing a little bit of a different game that Kevin O'Connell has not ever really played before, which is the get the ball out really, really quick, run the football extremely well, mix in some play action, stuff like that. and then play field position sometimes when you absolutely have to. This is not the way that we have ever discussed this offense with Kevin O'Connell.

And that, I think, is my biggest point of interest. I mean, he even kind of made fun of us, but made fun of himself at the same time. He said something like, you know, it must have gone cold up there in the press box when I ran four straight times. It's like, yeah, we see you and you see us. We know. But he also realizes that he has never really done that before. Hasn't had the running back, hasn't had the. interior offensive line to do it and has not really been in a quarterback situation like

this except for you could say maybe Josh Dobbs and Nick Mullins, but they couldn't run for anything. So he's never had a San Francisco or Philadelphia like setup. And that was what we saw last week. That was a San Francisco peak Kyle Shanahan type of game. Yeah, I'm fascinated to see how much or how consistent Kevin O'Connell is going to be with sticking with the run game. It helps when you have a veteran quarterback helping keep you on schedule. You can get more runs. O'Connell loves to talk about how those first two games, they didn't have, quote, unquote, enough plays. And that just means they weren't extending drives to create them because of inept quarterback play, anept line play, certainly in some of those series that they had. So with Wence, if he can keep them on schedule, feed O'Connell the opportunities to call more runs, especially when they get into the red zone, which is where we didn't see him make those decisions, at least in would have been Chicago. I can't remember which game. Atlanta, they also, yeah, the two yard line. So I do think that the, which I wanted to ask him this week, about what can Jordan Mason's game do for you in terms of your confidence as a play caller turning to the run game? Because like you said, we just hadn't seen it.

And that's where he mentioned like, yeah, you guys must have got a chill up your spine when I called four straight runs. And so if he can continue to do that, this schedule sets up as such, maybe not against Cleveland. But the schedule sets up as such where you might face some defenses like the Steelers who could give you reasons to keep dialing up the run. So you're wrong, Kevin. I got a tear in my eye. It was happy tier. That's right, because this, this is a Kubiak podcast, man. Pro Kuwia.

That's where we're rooted in this podcast. The boots. That's our coaching tree, podcasting tree, started in the Kubiak era with the boots and the play actions and the wide zone. When they were running wide zone, I was like, oh, because the numbers were interesting on that as we kind of transitioned into the Jordan Mason part. The numbers were interesting. because the first two games, it was a mix of zone and gap schemes.

And then it was very heavily wide zone against Cincinnati. And I think that's just because Jordan Mason absolutely thrives in that system. And West Phillips gave a very deep breakdown of wide zone and how it works. But the one thing that he said that stood out to me was that Mason has this way of seeing the second level of that play and setting up his blocks, waiting for or slowing down a little bit, speeding up, a block to develop or a guy to get to the right spot. And I think that's just a natural thing that some guys do extremely well. I think that they should

really be sticking with that wide zone style run game, which we've never really seen, they did some last year with Jones, but we've never really seen them actually commit to the same way that like a San Francisco did in the past. No. I mean, remember in 2022 when Dalvin Cook was at least hitting home runs, he wasn't

consistent enough as a producer for them to stick with it much. And that mid-zone, wide-zone kind of stuff that they did with Todd Gurley, certainly with the Rams. And whenever their run game worked in L.A., it looked like that. And off these trees that we're talking about coaching-wise. So I think Mason's a good fit for it. We know San Francisco is always so good at coaching up that position

that I'm sure he picked up some of that from his time there. But the completeness of who he is as a running back has honestly surprised me a little bit. We did not see that in San Francisco as much in terms of a receiver, a pass blocker. The opportunities weren't there. And we've heard Vikings coaches mention about guys, like, They can do it, even though they didn't see evidence of it. And you always, as fans or observers of media, you've got to wait and see.

And we've seen it now with Mason so early in this young season that he can be a 20, 30 touch guy in a game. And Aaron Jones's injury is unfortunate. Maybe they would have leaned toward Mason more, even if Jones had stayed healthy. But his injury is going to open a door for a guy to really take and run with this opportunity because they need him to be that kind of bell cow back for whoever's going to be a quarterback in the long run. So another thing that I didn't really discuss so far this week, it's been one subject that for some reason is sort of overshadowed everything else. Xavier Scott looked good. I mean, we knew that he could play in preseason,

but you never really know how it's actually going to look until you get out there. And then he gets on the field. And I thought that he had some jolt to him, had some strength through him, running through tackles, and then also saw the runs very well. I, when they signed Cam Acres, I kind of thought, you know, here he comes again, and they're going to kind of push him ahead. But the game was not out of hand yet, and they were giving him a series, which I think that this is one thing that we have realized over the years with Kevin O'Connell is when the coaches

come out and tell you, we love how this is happening with this player, they're usually telling the truth. Like, they went out of their way multiple times and came to be like, no, we really like what we're seeing from Xavier Scott. And then here's how you really know. This is reporting 101. Kids, if you're going to journalism school, Listen up. Okay, lean in. When they start calling him Zay, you know, you know. When they start calling him by a little nickname.

That's when it turned. Yep. Now, listen, here's the evidence here. Now, they call him Zay Rogers, Isaiah Rogers. Jalen Redman was Jalen last year. He's red now. Yep, that's what they start. Yep. See? They start calling him red. They started calling Mason, JP, because apparently his middle name starts with the letter P. what? And when Ivan Pace made the team, he became IP. Yeah, you're kind of right. You're kind of right. It's the easiest way to read what coaches are truly thinking. And it's really about the jocular culture of the locker room, right? Once you've made it, you get a nickname. Like Ryan Kelly said when Will fries walks in as a seventh round pick and he made the team, he said, I'm going to call you spuds. I'm not using fries. I'm not calling you Will. Call you spuds. So you those offensive linemen. He became spuds. You would never want to be on the wrong side of their trash talk. They're the smartest. guys and they're the biggest guys. And if, although, you know, Will Fries is big himself. But if Ryan Kelly calls you spuds,

I guess you're spuds from here. I mean, the creativity level maybe only gets about a B minus there for that. But anyway, I think that when Aaron Jones goes down, the initial reaction's like, okay, I guess Mason's playing 65 snaps. I don't think he has to. No, I don't

think he has to either. So it'll be interesting to see in general. Sorry, you were talking about Jordan Mason? I was talking about... My bad. Xavier Scott. Xavier Scott, sorry. Yeah, Xavier Scott, I thought, looked very good once he got into that game. And this coaching staff, to their credit, I remember Sheldon Richardson saying this a while, too,

and this wasn't even about this coaching staff, obviously, but they do it too. They don't have these prize possessions because of a draft pick or because of a status or a contract. And Zay, Scott, is going to have a lot of opportunity because of everybody who's hurt. But even if guys like Ty Chandler were healthy, I wouldn't be shocked to see Scott usurping him on the depth chart because they do not necessarily hold guys to standards based on those things. They just look at the merit. And not all coaching staffs or teams do that. And I think whether it was Max Rosmer making the team as an undrafted rookie,

being the backup quarterback now, or Scott finding his way ahead of Cam Acres, a guy who's known the system and we know stays ready for these moments, I think it's telling of a coaching staff that's open to being surprised and open to giving guys opportunity. We heard that from Flores all the time, and now we're seeing it on the offense event. So he's a guy that if he can maybe pass protect a little bit, too, might help them. But with C.J. Hamm, expectively coming back in the Cleveland game by week five here, I think that's also going to help them take some load off Jordan Mason.

Let me just ask you one more thing about the offense before we move on. Just a Fandul here has, as far as the over-unders for the targets for Carson Wentz, Justin Jefferson's 76.5 over-under, Jordan Addison 41.5, which they moved down by a yard since yesterday. I don't know, maybe his is a short press conference that he had with this. And T.J. Hawkinson 37.5 over-under. You don't have to give me over-unders on those necessarily, but I'm curious what you think of the target distribution in this game. Like, how much will they throw?

And do you think that, like, Addison's just going to come back and like the world on fire? Do you think this is a big Justin Jefferson breakout game that he hasn't had so far? What's your feeling? Yeah, I'm notoriously bad at predicting the future, like all of us. But when you just look at the surface and the matchups, you look at how Carson Wentz targeted both of his tight ends for touchdowns last week against the Bengals, and you look at a Steelers defense

that just gave up a ton of yards to Hunter Henry and New England. I wouldn't be shocked to see Hawkinson or Oliver have decent days against Pittsburgh in the middle of that defense. They've got Darius Slay. They got Jalen Ramsey. They have some older guys in the secondary, so it's not like Jefferson or Addison couldn't go off. But the way that Wentz is getting the ball out of his hands,

the way that they want that to work and just keep methodically moving things down field. This feels like a shift in the Vikings offense that is no longer about taking these gigantic shots down field as much as it's about ball control, running, and moving the chains. And that's why I think these tight ends

not just with the matchup, but with the offensive philosophy of the Vikings, I think could be in for a decent day. And Cam Hayward is fantastic. They're getting Derek Harmon back. And T.J. Watt is as good as it gets at causing sacks, causing turnover. and I think that that's going to be the biggest thing going into this game. They neutralized Trey Hendrickson with, of course, Darrasaw and Brian O'Neill,

but also there were so many plays where Trey Hendrickson has taken off and then going, wait a minute, there's no football in that quarterback's hands. And when he was throwing from a clean pocket, 1.9 seconds, that's not enough time for even the best pass rushers to go demolish your quarterback. And that's what they're going to try to do now as well. And they do have almost a complete offensive line, at least at the left guard position. It still is someone who has started before. You're not pulling in Drew Samia or something.

This is Blake Brandel, who we know can do the job. So I think they have a good enough offensive line here to execute. Before we move over to the other side of the ball, let's talk about the elephant in the room here with J.J. McCarthy. So he's not going to play in this game. Do you think that he is going to play in a game soon? in a game after the buy against Cleveland, I guess, is on the table. We don't really know. The health update was kind of just Kevin O'Connell sort of gesturing and saying some words,

but it wasn't really anything definitive. So what is your feeling about how this situation plays out? Yeah, I don't know. And that's the fascinating part. And if people had a definitive answer, Kevin O'Connell could have said it on Monday. And I think when he leaves the door open for any possible, by saying, I don't have to answer that question right now about whether McCarthy would be the starter when healthy, which is an obvious question to ask. And I understand why he doesn't want to answer it right now, because this is a team that is built to win now. They spent a lot of money, spilled money over the bar to be the number one free agent spending team this offseason to build a contender, not just to make the playoffs, to actually make some noise. Remember the whole Moore's required slogan all offseason? Like, they bang the drum since April of we need to do more than just make the show. And so, Is J.J. McCarthy ready for that?

Did they see that in eight quarters? It doesn't sound like they did, based on what they're saying. It sounds like in the praise that they're giving Carson Wentz, they're kind of saying what McCarthy wasn't doing in terms of the footwork, in terms of the stable base, keeping your feet on the ground. O'Connell talking about the ground being a quarterback's friend, Wence, just having that kind of stable going through his progressions, confidence. Those are the things that you didn't see in McCarthy.

And you, this isn't about selling. a fan base on your move. This is about selling your locker room on what you're doing. And I think that's the biggest thing is that if they continue to win with Carson Wentz and he's being a part of why they're winning, how do you make a switch for a team that, again, is here to win right now and is not here to care about your 2026, your 2027, and beyond. And historically, we have seen this a lot in Vikings history. But I also think we've seen it a lot in regular history. Now, the Vikings haven't gotten to the Super Bowl using a strategy such as this, but there are teams who have had a stacked enough roster that was built around a rookie quarterback contract. And one of the

ironies is that Carson Wentz was a part of one of those teams. Now, he didn't get them over the finish line. That was Nick Foles. We were there for some of that. But they were 11 and 2 when Carson Wentz was starting that year. And then Nick Foles took them all the way. And we can look at recent San Francisco. I think even the first time Jalen Hertz got the Eagles to the Super Bowl, Hertz was more of game manager type. I think he's maybe blossomed a little bit, although I don't know, he still kind of does the same thing. But building the roster around a competent quarterback and having it be this good and having an elite defense, in the NFC, I think that that puts you in the discussion. Does it win the Super Bowl if they play Josh Allen? That I don't

know. But you might have to wait until you get there to figure that out. But I think what a lot of fans have felt like is if Carson Wentz plays, there's a ceiling on this thing and the train will eventually land in the same station it always has. And I mean, I'm of two minds because I generally say that that's probably true. But at the same time, if the other quarterback, the young guy, isn't ready to play, that doesn't make your ceiling any higher for this year. And even though all of you want to think about the future, the team is in week four of the NFL season, and they have horse blinders on to win this football game, they are not so much at the coaching staff for the locker room, as you said, thinking about, well, what are we going to do

about next year? And I think it's important for fans to remember that if McCarthy's not, like, let's say he's practicing again and just in this hypothetical is not playing. This hypothetical fans seem to be worried about where Wence is playing over him. That doesn't mean that development has ceased. Obviously, playing is the best development for a guy you would think, but O'Connell might press against that notion because he's talked about how playing before you're ready isn't always the best thing for a young guy. And so I do think this practice time is going to be huge for whenever he gets back to practice, which is why I asked O'Connell this week, is he practicing? And he didn't want to answer that either. He was not practicing on Wednesday or Thursday of this week. So whenever he

gets back there, it's going to contribute to the, as O'Connell said, the 10,000 hours that he needs to put down at that position to get those habits down to where when he gets under the lights back in a game, reverting back to bad habits and losing the form that he had tried to build in practice. And so, again, this is not wasted time if he's still practicing and contributing because behind the scenes. Because last year when he wasn't, I understand coaches and O'Connell like to say that this wasn't a lost season for him, but you talk to people and they really wish he was on the field. They really wish he was, instead of rehabbing, they really wish they were actually going through

the steps, going through the eye work, going through everything you need to do as a quarterback with him on the field. And you can't do that through a VR headset as well. You certainly can't do that when you're on bed rest like he was last fall. So again, development is not necessarily going to cease if he's not out there. And that's how the Vikings are going to view it. I think what maybe I've been frustrated by with this conversation, and then we'll get to the defense, I promise. Overall is the idea that O'Connell just didn't call the good plays for McCarthy or that we all just saw the game wrong. Like, we all just didn't see what was actually out there,

which I guess, according to some people, was a great performance by J.J. McCarthy in a game where he had, I think I looked at this, the 11th worst quarterback rating since 2000 for the Vikings franchise. There's no, look, there's no tweeting your way into it. Like, it wasn't a good performance, but it was also a dangerous performance. And I think that if it was just some bad throws, And if it was just some inaccuracy, then you could be like, well, look, hey, you know, he's going to pick that up as he gets with the receivers and the full unit and the Derasaw and everything else.

But holding on to the ball and not seeing what you need to see and not having the proper footwork and not having your mind trained to work at this speed and this level, I think that that becomes a very big injury risk. And we saw him get injured in this game and you could say, well, it was random. him it was, but what was he doing? He was scrambling. And if you're going to be out there not seeing things and scrambling around, you put yourself at risk for more injuries. So Kevin O'Connell has to balance, clearly he wants J.J. McCarthy more than you do, guys. He wants more than anything. And that's the crazy part about like, oh, well, must be O'Connell just wants his veteran court. Oh, no, no, no, I promise you. I swear to you that Kevin O'Connell wants J.J. McCarthy to succeed more than any other person

except J.J. McCarthy and his immediate family. Okay? So he wants that for him, but he also knows that he's worked in places where, before, in their past, quarterbacks have been put on the field, and it's the thing that I think bothers him the most to see in the NFL. Remember last year when he hugged up Anthony Richardson and was like, hey, bro, I know it's tough or whatever. I think that was in part saying,

they didn't really give you the time that you needed, and then what happened, he got hurt. So the unfortunate part is that you and I are trying to explain this. Here's how they might see it. And what you ended up doing is asking for more patience from a fan base that has had to be patient for a very long time for this to arrive. Yeah, and I understand the impatience from Vikings fans about this position. But let's remember, too, last summer when JJ was healthy before he tore the meniscus and when Sam Darnold was taking all the first team reps, we all had heard from behind the scenes that this team was going to be very hesitant.

And in O'Connell, we're going to be very hesitant to put McCarthy. out there, that McCarthy was going to have to look lights out in camp. And then when he got hurt, there was stuff that came out about how well they were going to give him first team reps, and maybe some of that would have started. But they were already down the road of this being Sam Donald's team when J.J. McCarthy got hurt in August. They're not going to want to throw him back out there if they don't think he's ready. They're not going to want to put him in a position where he's going to mentally have

experiences that are going to stunt his growth in the future once they feel like he is more prepared. And I go back to something Josh McCown said before the season, talking about. McCarthy. He said, you have to treat him like he's a child who's learning how to walk. And we have to coach him like he knows how to walk, even though we know he can't yet. And that's kind of how, that's where he's at in the infancy of his position being 22, having 700 throws in college, having like the lowest amount of volume of attempts of any of the six round quarterback or six first round quarterbacks that came out that year. So this guy is very raw. Coyce said it to this

summer. There was no comp. There was no direct comp. You bring up wince. You bring up maybe Trey Lance with the Niners. There is no direct comp. They felt. felt like who for bringing in such a raw quarterback to try to put him into a ready-made team to win now. They didn't feel that they had somebody to pull from. But they felt like they had the secret sauce with O'Connell and the coaching and everything they've done with the position. And because we're in week four and McCarthy had two bad starts, it's not worth throwing all that out and saying, well, this is a bus now. We don't know what's going to happen. We might be getting to December, excuse me, and Wentz might, for some reason, be out and McCarthy might be in.

and we might be seeing that growth. Or it's going to take a long time. Because remember Jordan Love, and I'm rambling now, but remember Jordan Love, he sits for three years. He gets in that fourth year and is awful for the first half of that first season. I remember going on the radio in Green Bay and them freaking out, like they're going to be in the quarterback hunt with the Vikings who have Kirk and they want to get rid of him and all this stuff.

And so I think in general you have to be patient with this position and good coaches like Matt LaFleur in Green Bay, Kevin O'Connell in Minnesota, know how to manage that position. and Vikings fans should take a breath like I need to do right now and just trust them. Being patient with this position is the hardest thing to do for everyone, including the franchise, including us, including the fans. And that's how you end up with Baker Mayfield being a great quarterback in Tampa Bay because. Jamie Jones.

Exactly. I mean, there's lots of examples of this did not work through and even, you know, Sam Darnold, though some of the worst supporting guests you'll ever see in your life for that guy early in his career. But still, not enough patience. It's not an easy thing to do. And I know the way we're talking about him, and this is the crazy thing about this situation, the way we're talking about him is like, see you in 2027, youngster. But it might be two weeks from now.

I mean, I think that your first reaction to my question is the right answer about, I don't know, you don't know. I don't think Kevin O'Connell knows not only when he'll play again, but also how it'll look when he plays again. because you're also allowed to learn from bad starts. And I think that J.J. McCarthy probably is able to do that to see some of the things and will also have a better supporting cast if and when he returns. So, yeah, deep breaths, but I don't think there's a lot of folks that want to hear that right now.

So let's talk about A.A. Ron and the Pittsburgh Steelers offense, which has been something to watch on tape because that first game against the Jets was hilarious. The Jets tackled absolutely no one. And Rogers made some great throws, but they were mostly to open wide receivers. He can still spin it, but if you get in his legs at all in his feet, if you force him off his spot, I think he's toast. And that's exactly what Brian Flores is going to try to do. Make him hold the ball just a little bit longer because he cannot move anymore. When he said spin it made me think of the Jets hard knocks, we don't have the, who, boy, they really fell in love with that, didn't they?

Rogers is getting the ball out fast. He threw a nice touchdown at D.K. Metcalfe against the Patriots, the little over-the-shoulder thing we've seen a million times from him. They scored two touchdowns on their first two drives against New England, and you're thinking, boy, maybe they figured something out. Getting the ball out quick, Jalen Warren, Calvin Austin making some plays. But then it just all fell apart. And New England kind of shifted back,

said we're going to back up a little bit, just rally and tackle. I think the Vikings are pretty good at that. I think they just did that to Jake Browning and the Bengals, where their pressure was so ferocious, and the Steelers O-line is a little better than Cincinnati's, but yeah, not much. Only a little, yeah, only a little. Those guards, Fairchild and Reisner, who, boy, that was bad. It was really bad for Sincy.

I think it was a-Dulton might want to try a training camp. It was a 58% pressure rate for the Vikings. It was their highest since 2018 as a franchise, apparently. So I was according to the next-gen stats that they throw out there. But I think the Steelers are going to want to play a similar game. Only Matthew Stafford gets the ball out faster than Aaron Rogers this season. season. Rogers at 41 does not seem like a guy who wants to take a lot of hits, not that any quarterback does, but he seems to really want to avoid it at this age. So, and the Vikings are

really good at scheming things up, beating people one-on-one, and hitting quarterback. So I anticipate a lot of a long game for the secondary of rallying, tackling, much like they did with Jamar Chase on the perimeter, Chase Brown, when they tried to get things on the perimeter last week with Cincinnati. So I think this is actually a good matchup for the Vikings, and I think it'll look a little similar to when they faced Rogers and the Jets last year in London. And what they did a really good job of was mixing up Rogers because, you know, he wants to get that read in, find his first guy and just let it go as quick as possible. But there were times where he was forced to hold the ball.

Remember, he kind of got twisted back. What you're really looking for is Roger's face. That's what you're looking. If you get Roger's face, you're good. Where he's walking out the field and he looks like he hates playing football. He has not really had that a lot this year. though. I think that he's been a little rejuvenated, maybe by an organization that isn't trash. That probably has helped. And I think that the coaching staff, at least they have proven people over there.

Tomlin, I know in Pittsburgh, they're not so thrilled. Arthur Smith is not going to let your socks on fire. But the guy's been around and he's had success with Ryan Tannahill and building off a running game. So it seems like he's a happier man. But if you make him unhappy, I think you've just won the game. And deception is the way. The one question I have is I'm very curious to see how much Redmond and Rodriguez play because those guys were massive difference makers against Cincinnati and what we see from Dallas Turner because I just don't get the sense that we're getting 60 snaps out of Andrew Van Ginkle. So Dallas Turner, great game last week.

What happens now because he is shown to be an impact player? Yeah, I really liked what we saw from Turner against the Bengals. And it wasn't just the five pressures that he had. There was one play in the run game where Chase Brown's offset from him in shotgun, and that's usually a tell that the run, if there is one, is coming toward you. And he checks with Hargrave to seemingly get into a stunt that they ran that set him up to blow up an inside zone. Like, he seems to be seeing things before the snap. He seems to have the game kind of slow down for him in a way that obviously rookies have a hard time doing in this system.

This is, again, a check-based system, like we say ad nauseum. They want to empower their players to see things, to be heady, to think, think and play fast, which is hard to do. A lot of teams want to wind up their defenders and just play fast. Don't think, just go. We saw that with Mike Zimmer in certain roles that he had in his defense. But this is more of a defense that is going to ask you to adjust. And Turner had a hard time with that.

And now we're seeing some steps forward, not just physically being a little bigger against the run and holding blocks. And I think Grenard called it shocking guys and throwing them back. We've seen that. But now we're seeing some of the head of your stuff with him that without Van Ginkle, that's a huge ascension. Like they need that to happen because if Van Ginkle, who's only played eight snaps since that week one injury and who knows if he'll play on Sunday here after not practicing Wednesday or Thursday, it seems like he's really limited right now physically. And so they need Turner to do what he's done. I like what you mentioned about the inside guys. Those guys played great.

And if Hargrave is also limited by this rib issue, this will be the kind of waves that they talked about this summer of actually producing in terms of pass rush. With Van Ginkle, it may just be better. and I have not examined his neck to just not play overseas and come back after the buy at 100% and go the rest of the way because if you've given Turner all this time to develop and he's done a good job with it, then when Van Ginkle re-arives with his full role,

you've really got something on your hands there. So that's something that I want to see play out, but they need Turner to be really good. Van Ginkle is extremely hard to replace, but I've noticed Turner drop it back in coverage a lot in the same way that Van Ginkle did. So I don't think there's been a limitation there. And also, we should mention that this team's pass fresh is going to start with Jonathan

Grinard. I saw a stat today that his pressures have come faster than anyone else in the NFL so far this year with at least seven pressures or whatever. 2.1 seconds is his average. All right. That is just like snap, look to, and then Jonathan Grinard is there. Right. And this is a team that does have some offensive line issues.

That's going to be a major. factor and stopping that run, which they've just not been very effective with. Let's throw out one X factor, the turf. We have no idea what it's going to be like. And the kicking game, the Vikings have punted extremely well, which, you know, I know throw a party, but it is mattered when you're playing this style of football. And Will Reichard has looked like the Will Reichard that we saw last year in training camp and the guy who started off his career so hot last year. Yeah. So I think both of those are going to be great X-Factors for this. The turf is huge because if they're rallying and tackling like they are, if the Steelers and Vikings both need to create after the catch, they're slipping around and not being able to catch their footing, that's huge. This is the first ever game in Dublin. So we're going to see how Croke Park is going to handle this game. My X-Factor is just Jalen Warren. It's just can they stop who I think is the engine of the Steelers offense? Arthur Smith wants to run through the run game, even as Aaron Rogers is his quarterback. And Jalen Warren is pretty. pretty good. I like him. I think he's better than he's no Bijon Robinson, but he's better than Chase Brown. I think he's better than DeAndre Swift as well. So I think

Warren is going to be the guy that they need to focus on. It's going to be a long day for Ivan Pace and Eric Wilson chasing him down and what they do with him in the passing game as well. He was their leading receiver last week against New England. So to me it's just about stopping that ground game, stopping Warren in the past game and forcing Rogers to beat you with his arm, which I just don't think he can do in 2025. All right, before we pick the game, I will handle the vibe check for this week. Just fine. I'm not that short. Just fine. I guess so, yeah. You're not tall, more of average. True, yeah.

But the vibes, they're okay. Well, now they are. All right, so it's a week-to-week league, folks. When you lose 22 to 6, not so good. When you win 48 to 10, good. Shocking stuff. Anyway, who do you think wins this football game? the vibes are going to continue to be good. Like I mentioned, and like we talked about for 30 minutes here,

I think this is a good matchup for the Vikings. I think defensively it's a good matchup. I think offensively, it's a good matchup. Anytime you get to face a defense that's given up 400 yards, basically, in three straight weeks. Carson Wentz should continue to look poised. Jordan Mason should continue to get a ton of carries. And I think the Vikings are going to win this one. I don't even think it's going to be as low scoring as last year's game against Rogers, because the Jets defense was, I think better last year than what the Steelers defense is this year. So to me, the Vikings are going to win.

I think it'll be by two scores. I don't think it's going to be a close game. Copy and paste that Vikings win in blowouts fashion. I think that when both quarterbacks are kind of even these days, there's limitations. They both are veterans. They both can do

a lot of the same stuff. But neither one of them is suddenly going to turn into Superman. That means the better roster will ultimately win. And I did a little study on this when it came out that the Vikings were playing the two overseas games. Just who won when, you know, which team was favored and that kind of thing, oftentimes, more often, the team that was favored won than usual. That is what I came up with. And especially if it was a big line, this one isn't. This one on Fandul is two and a half, I think,

for the Vikings. But usually that's been the case that the better, stronger team goes over there because the preparation, it's sort of like Thursday night football, when the preparation is thrown off, it's usually roster v. roster, and I think the Vikings is stronger. Probably the coaching staff as well. Yeah, and fans should fact check me on this. I'm not 100% sure, but somebody told me with the team with the Vikings today that the Steelers have not gone an international since 2013. That that was when the Vikings faced them in London way back with Greg Jennings and who Matt Castle, I think, was starting that game for the Vikings.

So the Steelers don't do this very often. To your point about preparation, the Vikings do this now basically every other year. They did it last year. They have this international travel stuff down, and they feel like they've got kind of a secret sauce to getting the best out of their players despite sending them overnight on a seven, eight hour flight or whatever it is. So they feel like they're going to be able to be in better spirits on Sunday than Pittsburgh, and I do think that'll play a factor.

I'm going to go 2717 Minnesota Vikings over there in Dublin. So thanks you all for listening, watching. to Purple Insider Hardcore Breakdown, presented by Fanduil, and we will catch you all later. Football. Football. Folks, I know a lot of you out there either own your own business or you are in a management position where you have to hire people,

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So try it for free at this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com slash audio. Again, that is ZipRecruiter.com slash audio. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, we welcome into the show for the first time ever, but a YouTube channel that I have admired now for some time, Football Analysis is the YouTube channel and the host, Garrett Greenlee, a Vikings fan, not from Minnesota, though, I understand, and you have built this channel up to have a huge following. It looks great. It sounds great. It's awesome. And I've made it a

goal of the show to bring on more folks from the YouTube world now that I've built this up on my end as well onto the show. So Garrett, welcome to the show for the first time. It's great to have you, man. I appreciate you having me, Matthew. I've, you know, I'm familiar with your work. I've followed for several years. So I appreciate you having me and really looking forward to talking Vikings. Absolutely. Well, why don't we start out with this? So you do a ton of X's and O's breakdowns on your channel. And I'm really curious about what you make of these first three weeks for the Minnesota Vikings offense because it's been a huge discussion here. Did they do enough to help J.J. McCarthy? How much was the left tackle? How much was the Cincinnati Bengals being bad?

How much was Garrett or not your Garrett? Carson Wentz getting the ball out. out quickly and on and on and on and on and with the debates have raged through the entire week about whether I've made the joke I guess O'Connell didn't use the good plays until week three but I wonder when when you've looked at this Vikings offense what did you see when McCarthy was in there why don't we start out there first of the issues that they had consistently throwing the football so with JJ and we'll kind of exclude the one quarter just because there's seven bad quarters well we'll get into the one good quarter eventually. But there's seven bad quarters, one good quarter with JJ right now, right?

The Falcons game was a nightmare for a couple of reasons. And it was really frustrating from, both from a JJ standpoint, but also from a KOC standpoint. And, you know, we've, as, as, you know, Vikings fans, we've dealt with the bad OCs over the years, whether it was Bill Musgrave over a decade ago or John D. Philippa or any of the other bad coordinators, right? But whenever you have a KOC or McVe or Kyle Shanahan, and I'm very grateful to have KOC as the team's head coach and play caller at this point. People kind of assume that, oh, well, you have KOC, no big deal. Everything's, you know, sunshine and rainbows. Don't worry about it. You know, it'll be good. And I do believe that it will be good in the long run. But during the Falcons game specifically, there's times where KOC, I would

say, kind of gets in his head a little bit or just does it or refuses to change in some ways. And I think that during the Falcons game, specifically that with Justin's school out there, obviously there's night and day difference between him and Christian Darisol, and we saw that in week three. And I was so glad to have the big fellow back out there. But it was just a lot of long developing passing plays. And between weeks two and three, I had on my own YouTube channel, I just asked the question. I said, I want you to think of Justin Jefferson in any play that he has made over the past couple of years. Any big play and kind of close your eyes and envision that and question or think about, have you seen Justin Jefferson run a slant route any time in

the past couple of years? Have you seen them take a slant, you know, catch and run for maybe 20 or 25 yards? And I couldn't initially think of that, right? So the frustration with KOC was just the fact of, hey, we don't have a good offensive line. And it also didn't help that Ryan Kelly got hurt midway through the game. So you're out there with Justin School slash Walter Rouse at left tackle. And then you're also out there with Michael Juergens at center. And it was a tough night. It was a really tough night. But within week three, I thought KOC called a lot more just on time plays. And we really saw that in the first drive. And there was one play that Carson had to Justin Jefferson where he kind of like shimmered in, if you will, and then stepped up into the

pocket and hit Jefferson on a dig route. And I want to say it was like a 15 yard gain early in the game. And that was what I was hoping to see from JJ, where, you know, everything was kind of in sync. We had these, you know, five step drops under center. And it was just. it looked a lot smoother of an operation and I was really glad to see that more in week three than what we saw in week two because week two everybody looked out of sync the offensive line looked out of sync JJ was also not set up for success in addition to him forcing a couple of passes that he shouldn't have so there was a big difference between weeks two and weeks three and even a lot of week one for that matter to you know I think that it goes back

to kind of a thing that all football people believe is that the quarterback takes all the blame or all the praise when it's not entirely in context ever. No quarterback ever does it himself, except for maybe Michael Vick a handful of times in his career. But when it comes to a game like Atlanta, we're kind of forced to pick this game apart a million different ways because we didn't get to see J.J. McCarthy come back against Cincinnati with maybe an adjusted game plan. But I also felt like it's chicken and egg when it comes to this analyzing the play caller versus the quarterback, because there were sometimes where I was very critical of, hey, if your left tackle is getting killed and your quarterback looks shaken,

going empty on a first down from your own 40 yard line where you have a chance to go take the lead or get back at the game, not really would have been my choice, right? Asking him to set a protection and just doing a lot of work there with the current situation was not very good. And then they get surprised on a blitz. He strips act and then the game falls apart from there. So there were things that I didn't love about it.

first and two from the goal line with Jordan Madison, uh, with, Jordan Mason, just run the ball with Jordan Mason. That was, that was, I thought he was very good in Cincinnati of just being like, you know what I'll do again is run the ball with Jordan Mason. Um, at the same time, I saw a chart today that was showing the percentage of checkdowns from NFL quarterbacks and McCarthy, I think was at zero. Like he has never checked down, not a single time. That's not how it's supposed to work, right?

Like, even though there were long. developing plays. There's also things built in. We've seen enough KOC. There's Hawkinson. There's swing out of the backfield. Usually running backs are coming out of the backfield. So I think that also his timing just was not what it was supposed to be with the offense, which then causes holding the ball, causes extra pressure, and it really doesn't help your left tackle who's struggling a lot on the night. So I thought it was a lot of everything. But I also thought, yeah, this looks like a young quarterback when faced with everything not like all ducks not in the row as we saw from a Michael Pennix last week as we've seen from a lot of young quarterbacks

in the NFL. I couldn't agree more. And the thing is, it's just kind of, I go back to this belief for this idea of everybody wants to have a young quarterback until it's time to have a young quarterback and to go through the developing phase and everything. And, you know, I don't want to take anything away from Jade and Daniels as much as I'm just having a good conversation here, but Gene Daniels last year was a very old prospect. And he is two years older now than what JJ is as a second year player. I mean, he's three years older than JJ. So there, I think, I mean, based on JJ's work ethic, based on his mentality, based on even the flashes now we can bring up the one quarter, based on the flashes that we saw in the one quarter, whether it was that

bullet to Jefferson on the touchdown again in his first ever, I'm calling it his first live game other than a Raiders week one preseason game or 12 snaps against the Texans or the Patriots or whichever team it was. I think it was the Texans this past preseason because who really remembers the preseason after the preseason. But aside from those preseason games, it was his first game since the 2024 national championship. And even within that, even the dime that he threw in a bucket to Aaron Jones on the player, even the rushing touchdown that he had, there's going to be growing pains. And again, he's only 22 years old. And he is the. youngest quarterback in the NFL this year, whenever, whenever he's on the field because,

I mean, he's, he's even younger than Cam Vord, who was the number, whatever I'll pick this year. Yeah, and that, I guess, does bring up a question. Now, I personally have felt like they took the right overall direction because paying Sam Darnold, well, I was supremely impressed with Darnold if you franchise tag him, because I don't think he was taking the offer unless they were going to trade J.J. McCarthy and just, you know, not have a quarterback competition. Um, so, let's just assume they had to tag him or nothing. That's 41 million. They only had 60 million to work with. It's difficult to go get Javon Hargrave, Jonathan Allen, et cetera. You know, everybody knows kind of the rookie quarterback contract advantage. I think you've seen it work enough times where the

process made sense what they saw from him in camp in 2024, made sense when they made this decision, not bringing Aaron Rogers here. I think all those things match up. But I have seen a lot of this week of, hey, we're now talking about, A, his young quarterback, got to give him time for his growing pains with a roster that doesn't really have time for growing pains. And suddenly we're three weeks into this and going, I don't know if these two things really connect the way that we thought they were going to. That's very fair. And I, to agree with, or to go off of what you said with the, with the 60 million that they had in free agency and then the 41 million with everything. I saw a tweet a couple days ago. It was darned. He threw a ball in a

bucket to, I want to say it was JSN on a post route. It was a really, really good throw. I don't know if you saw the tweet, but it was a really good throw from Darnon, who has improved tremendously since the start of the 24th season or become more consistent because even in Darnold's younger days, the flashes were there. It was just more about getting that player consistently rather than the ghost standard, if you will. But basically the tweet was the Vikings got rid of this for J.J. McCarthy, and it was, and I wanted to respond to it. I didn't, but it was basically the Vikings got rid of this for Jonathan Allen, J. Bob Hargrave, Isaiah Rogers, Will Fries, and Ryan Kelly, and then also having Donovan Jackson and J.J. McCarthy as well. So I agree with what you're

saying in the sense of, you know, this is a win now roster, but I am also a firm believer that, you know, we saw flashes in one quarter and COC. You know, he talks about being able to, you know, weather the storm and go through it first. He's always mentions that in every speech and every, you know, in every press conference. And I think COC himself also showed signs of improvement as a play caller and being able to adapt in weeks two and week three. Now, there were a couple of sacks that Carson Wentz took in week three that he probably shouldn't have. Obviously, that gets kind of buried whenever you win by 38 points. And Isaiah Rogers has not an exaggeration, one of the best single game performances of all time. But I'm really eager to see how this team plays

in week four, and I'm really eager to see how this team plays against what is a really good pass rush against the Pittsburgh Steelers. Yeah, I mean, and those are sort of two different conversations because there's this bigger picture, front office, wide lens, 30,000 foot view where we're saying, well, what does this really mean in the context of the entire franchise and kind of where it's going at the quarterback position? And it becomes very hard to say, okay, I know that all of us starting with them and then us taking cues from them and passing it along to the fans, all promised to you this franchise quarterback right now. But now you actually have to pump the brakes and you have to wait and how they're going to develop him is unclear.

And I think it becomes very, very muddy. And oh, by the way, Carson Wentz, everyone. I mean, I can see where fans would have a serious whiplash from this. But I think that one thing we need to make sure is clear from what we're talking about with J.J. McCarthy is two games is nothing in the sample size of a quarterback. And as you mentioned, there were lots of people responsible, including J.J. McCarthy, but not only J.J. McCarthy. And I think that Kevin O'Connell fundamentally believes that you should only have a quarterback in there if he can play completely comfortably. And that was not how JJ was playing. So as long as Carson Wentz is playing comfortably and they're winning, I think they

probably will end up staying with Carson Wentz. So now my question for you, Garrett, is how long are they going to win with Carson Wins? Well, I mean, over from a roster standpoint, I think the Vikings are better than both the Steelers and Browns. I don't think that should be a hot take. But after the buy, the thing is, is it's tough because I want to pull up this exact schedule here. So I don't want to misspeak on something

when I can just easily Google this. But the Vikings have a very difficult portion of the schedule coming up. And I know after the buy, they immediately play Philly. And then they play the Chargers on Thursday night, you know, four games after that. So you're playing against the Eagles and the Chargers off the buy. That's incredibly tough. And I wouldn't be surprised, quite frankly, if the Vikings drop both games,

because you're playing extremely physical teams in a span of five days. I don't really care. Okay, big deal we had the buy week. But playing the Eagles, playing the Chargers is difficult. So there's a chance that they lose, not one, but both of those games. And then after that, you go to Detroit and then play home against the Ravens. That is one of the toughest four game spans that anybody could have. have in the 2025 season, not just the Vikings.

So even after that, you have home against the Bears at the Packers at the Seahawks. So I would imagine if they're going to go back, it would probably be at some point within there. I think it would require a couple of interception game from Carson once at some point in there. And I don't think the Vikings would willingly go back with JJ unless it is, you know, I think it would have to be performance based from once to go back, just given the experience and kind of the sour taste that was left off. after the Atlanta game.

So let me throw out this. I'll only throw out two different scenarios. And then you tell me what has to happen to get to there. Okay. So the first scenario is one that you as a Viking follower have seen before. But let's say Carson Wentz makes it work that he gets through these next couple games. And even let's just say the Ravens aren't perfect, the Eagles aren't perfect, Detroit's not perfect. Let's say through that really tough stretch, there are 500 football team.

And they come out of it that would be. six and four, something like that. All right. So this is pretty good. Six and four, you're right in the race. You can make the playoffs that way. And then from there, they've got cowboys. They've got giants. Like, there's a lot of, there's some winnable games down the stretch.

And this team ends up being a playoff team with double digit wins. And they're going into the playoffs, feeling like a very serious contender. What has to happen with Carson Wentz, with KOC? Put it this way. To justify Carson Wentz playing the rest of the year. Honestly, it would probably have to be similar to 2017 whenever Case Keenum took over for Sam Bradford. And that year, Case Keenham had a good running back to our solid at the time and Jerich McKinnon and Latavius Murray. And then of course, Diggs and Thielen. And then

Kyle Rudolph was still in his prime at that point. So you had a Pro Bowl tight end as well. The thing with Carson Wentz, in terms of him being able to continue to steer the ship is as simple as it is, just don't crash the car. You know, you know, don't merge lanes going 100 down the interstate. Just just keep it in cruise control. Just do what you're doing. Don't turn the ball over. And the job's going to be his for a while because this team is really good. And the defense, I mean, the defense is playing at another level right now. There's the defense right now in terms of EPA per play, the difference between the Vikings are the best in the league in defensive EPA per play. And the difference between first and second EPA per play is like the same difference between

second and 14th. So as long as Carson Wentz does not have a three interception game or see ghosts like we've seen, you know, in the past or anything like that or, you know, Jordan Mason fumbles the ball a couple times. And we give the team the football, you know, the five yard line and they're going to score a touchdown. My point is, as long as we don't beat ourselves, I mean, you, we can win 11, 12, 13 games because of how low did this team is. See, this is how you could tell that you don't live in Minnesota is because what you would have said is you just merge and stop and look at the other person and like wave them and they wave you and then you crash that's how it you live in virginia right i live in maryland okay maryland they're 100 miles an hour absolutely i've driven

in virginia maryland dc total insanity it's a little different here uh anyway not the point how about this scenario because i totally agree with you i mean if there's a little bit of ups and downs but there's a lower ceiling but a higher floor with carson went to quarterback you can win games i mean the last time the guy started, he started with a good team, and he won nine games with them and probably should have won 10 if he hadn't lost to the Jaguars in the last day of the season. Now, the other scenario is this, that by the end of the year in 2025, the Vikings are walking off the field in the playoffs with number nine as their quarterback. What has to happen for us to get there where J.J. McCarthy is starting and they are in the

playoffs? who is a good question i by the way for clarity i just want to say that you know driving down a hundred in that scenario would be like hey we're trying to force passes into windows we don't need to not that i'm regularly driving a hundred i'm not anyway just just for clarity um but the for jj to walk off the field in the playoffs i mean assuming a playoff loss system as the starting quarterback and i want to say we're going to the super pole here after the first eight quarters of his career. I would say it would require Carson once to, like I said, lose control of the ship at some point. And the thing is, there would be multiple opportunities because you're going up

against a Vic Fangio and a Jesse Minter defense in a span of five days. So I feel like that's going to be kind of the turning point and kind of, you know, we get out of the buy. We played two games over, you know, across the pond. How are we going to play against what are very good defenses and especially the Chargers on a short week. So I think I think there's going to be a lot more clarity after the week's, the week eight game against the Chargers on Thursday, October 23rd. I think that will have a lot more clarity then. And whether Carson is the starting quarterback after that will be,

it'll be a lot more of a, you know, relevant conversation in terms of the long-term outlook of the 25 Vikings. So the quarterback situation has been so interesting that just sort of barely gotten into Pittsburgh and Vikings and Steelers and playing in Dublin. What have you thought of the Aaron Rogers, Pittsburgh Steelers? Because I think that it's kind of been an attempt by Arthur Smith to keep the train on the tracks. And in opening scripts, it certainly has been. And then once it goes off the opening script, it's kind of all hell breaking loose.

And anytime Aaron Rogers is pressured, you talk about going 100 miles an hour, he's not going about two miles an hour. Anytime he's been pressured. But as the Vikings go into this game, like what's the, what's the confidence level that the Vikings can beat Aaron Rogers and the Steelers? Well, can beat. I mean, they can very easily. I think the confidence level should be at least a, you know, a nine, not that they're going to, but they very easily can because like you said, whenever Rogers is under pressure,

he's 41 years old. And you can, I mean, look, Rogers, if you go back to high school football and everything else, he's been playing this game for over 20 years. I mean, his body is battered. He's taking his shots, whether it's at the high school level. I don't care that he took a couple of years, like to develop and, Green Bay. His body's taken, his body knows, right? You don't want to take at 27, let alone 41 consistent hits from any of Jonathan Grinardt, Van Ginkle, Dallas Tarter,

Hargrave Allen, and especially doubled with the fact that their left tackle. Roger Jones has been an extreme disappointment to start the 2025 season. And Rogers kind of did this thing last year with the Jets and not surprisingly given that he is 41. It's continued where as soon as he gets under pressure, he'll kind of like do this little hop step and then just throw it either to the flat or just throw it quick just because he doesn't want to take hits at this point. And I don't blame him, by the way. But given that, and the Steelers can't run the ball either because they're rushing attack this year has been abysmal doing so part to the offensive line, the Vikings can very easily win this game. And it goes back to, like I said,

Carson Wentz not, you know, steering the ship in the wrong direction and straight up not losing the game. And I'm pretty confident the Vikings, if we have one turnover or less, I'm pretty confident the Vikings are to win this game. So let me ask you, I think so too. And I've picked them 2717. I'm not great at picking stuff, but that's my guess on this one. I think that they will be a tough matchup for Pittsburgh, just the way that that team is constructed. But, you know, in today's world in the NFL, with defensive lines being what they are, both these teams have good D lines. Who gets a strip sack? Who causes the pressure that, forces a big mistake could end up being the team that ends up winning this game.

I want to know what you think of just the overall trend of the NFC, because when I look around the NFC, it's something I brought up with probably every guest this week, but I'm just kind of shrugging my shoulders at who is the best right now in the NFC. I think the Eagles deserve the benefit of the doubt as Super Bowl champions, but aside from that, I think every single team you can look through and go, okay, the Lions just had this huge win. They feel great about themselves. Two weeks ago, you looked foolish. You know, the Vikings just had a huge win. You know, last week you looked really bad. The Rams just blew a huge lead to the Eagles. But before that, they look good.

I just don't feel like I'm on solid ground with even how to rank the NFC right now, aside from just giving Philly their flowers as the, as the champs. Yeah, I would agree with that because I think you could make a legit case for for every team. And you just made a case for all of them, and even including Green Bay. their defense is phenomenal. I mean, even in the loss, they allowed 13 points. You allow 13 points most games, you should win. I mean, you're, you have professional football players, professional football coaches,

you should be able to put up 14 points in 60 minutes. And that's not a shot at Green Bay because I've said countless positive things about them over the past month or so since they acquired Michael Parsons. But you can make a case for any of the Rams, Eagles, lions, lions, lions, lions, Lions are Packers, and I think that those are your top four teams that would have the best shot of going to the Super Bowl. And I did not include Tampa mainly because I fear for injury along the trench play. They've already had a couple of injuries. And I worry about that with Tampa, at least at this point, based on what we've seen and that the other teams have not had

to the level that Tampa has. So I would agree with you that all four of those teams that they are at the top right now. I guess my question is still with Green Bay, the same question I had when they got Michael Parsons because, of course, you know, my reaction was the same as everybody else. Like, oh, boy, that defense could be pretty darn good. And they are. But last week, Jordan Love did a thing that Jordan Love does, which is just in the worst possible time, whoop, just threw the ball away. And I saw breakdowns of the play or people trying to figure out Green Bay reporters, like what happened there. I don't know. He does that sometimes is what happened. And that's where I wonder about them of how high their ceiling could be

if they could win a Super Bowl with a quarterback that has so much volatility. First two weeks, hey, they're playing from ahead. He's running play actions. Washington had never seen a motion before. And then you know, you're sort of good to go. And then you play a legit defense like Cleveland, which I think the Vikings are on kind of that same level. And you go, yeah, that's the volatility once again of Jordan Love.

but I also think you could say that about a lot like you could say that about Matthew Stafford has that still in his bag and Detroit can be that way sometimes where if you get to Jared Goff and pressure him or you stop their run it's not the same and that's where I sort of question like if Green Bay is really the super team they could block for him by the way and they've got injuries and I still have not seen this superstar number one wide receiver that they were talking about in training camp in Green Bay and Matthew Golden. So that's why I think every single team has, you could sort of pick them apart and talk about that no one is that clear frontrunner. I couldn't agree more. Even with Philly, they came from back. They came 19 points

down last week. They had 33 yards of offense in the first half. You can say, well, was that one half wonder or is Kevin Petullo still have a lot of questions there? And can the Rams, you know, are they going to be able, are they going to have the lead in their head whenever they get ahead next time? And, you know, their two wins are against the Texans and Titans, both of whom are O and three. So you can pick them all the part. But if I had to choose, I feel like I would go eagles or lions at this point. But I've been high in each team for for a while, especially the lions. I mean, I think they are very much a Super Bowl caliber roster.

And they had a top 15 offense ever last year. And I mean, that's not an exaggeration based on points. And the question that I thought was ridiculous all summer was whatever people were going to say, well, they're going to regress. I mean, technically, yes, if you go from 15 to 14 wins, that's a, you know, regression in theory. And if you average one point less, then yes, that's a regression. But there's too much talent in that offense to not be a top five or seven offense in the NFL and to be a consistent thorn in everybody's side.

And the Lions, I mean, they just put up 38 points at Baltimore. The Bears defense is not great, but, I mean, 52 points is 52 points. They're going to be fine. And there's a very strong chance they win the NFC North Carolina. too. Yeah. I mean, this, this race, what I said the other day, and I, and I like it. So I'll say it again, is two in one, two and one and two and one between the Vikings, the lions and the Packers, pretty predictable. How we got there, though, I mean, I don't think anyone of us could have seen coming. So, including like a whooping of the Ravens in Baltimore or Detroit not being able to do anything against Green Bay, Green Bay losing to Cleveland, the Vikings falling apart against Atlanta, having Carson Wentz a quarterback. This is why we watch Roger Goodell's National Football League, Garrett. But before I let you go, here's what I want from you. You've been following the Vikings for a long time.

I want your favorite completely random player on the Minnesota Vikings that you liked more than anyone else, that if you were talking to somebody from some other city, let's just say DC area, and they were like, you're just having a conversation. You're like, oh, that's like this guy. And they would have no idea who you're talking about. But everybody in Vikings land would. Who would that be? okay well there's i have one really really obscure one and it was because when i was like a nine-year-old

kid um i went to a viking ravens preseason game and um he i met this player his name is eric frankton he was a he was an old special teams player he actually drilled reggie bush in the o nine championship game for a forced fumble um and he was just he was really cool and we kept to contact for a couple years and he was awesome um that would be the really really obscure one um but for the let me think of here let me just Just I'm trying to think of somebody from like this 2014 through 2018 area. That would just be, this is a good question, by the way. I would say Mr. third down, Jarius Wright.

He was, he was, yeah, you need a big, it was like death taxes, Jerry's Wright, third down. He was, he would probably be the one. I think the most common answer here would be either Jarius Wright or Marcus Sherrill's. That just the most beloved players that didn't have a lot of moments. So, or, you know, I mean, Cheryl's has a punt returner. not many people would know who he was. Jerry's right in the Minneapolis Miracle game.

If the Minneapolis Miracle does not happen, his 20, I want to say 23-yard catch over the middle that set up a Kai 4-Bath field goal that was supposed to be the game-winning field goal, then Drew Breeze hits a deep out route to, I think it was Willie Sneed, sets up their field goal, Minneapolis Miracle happens next. But Jerry has should have been the hero of that game. He got them the lead there. And Marcus Sherrill's, of course, just the goat of punt.

turning made it look extremely easy when it is not very easy at all great stuff the youtube channel is football analysis very easy to remember and i guess somebody had to be the person to get football analysis as a youtube it's it's great uh it's a great channel you do an awesome job with it you put a ton of work into it so i highly suggest it for all of my audience who i i know will enjoy your work so garrett great to have you on the show first time absolutely not the last time great stuff man Awesome. Thank you so much for having Matthew.