Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Apologizing to Vikings players we didn't expect to start

Episode Date: August 21, 2020

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What is up, Sam? Not much, my man. What's up with you? I haven't seen you in a while. I know. We played golf horribly and then we went out to practice yesterday and so we got a lot of sun. This is an unusual complexion for me to actually have gotten some rays. I've been inside the house for months on end, which is very different from non-pandemic.

The golf tan is at a different level for me this year, though. It's bad. Not only are my feet ghostly white, I'm getting a glove tan on my right hand because I'm a lefty and it's it tells me that I've been playing too much quarantine golf it's got to slow down you know what I've played more golf this summer mostly with you than I have in many years and the sad part is I just have not improved and I always think like that I'm going to get better and I'll have one round that's good and I'll feel like, yeah, okay, turn in the corner and then it doesn't happen. So, well, I guess that's everyone's golf game. I even brought it up with Brandon Dillon.

He said he stinks at golf too earlier this week. So anyway, the reason that I wanted to bring you back on here, aside from getting your thoughts on a bunch of different camp battles that are going on and a lot of intrigue here with new players much more than in previous camps uh is that we have to issue an apology you and I yes a few months ago or maybe I don't know it must have been maybe a month ago we were previewing training camp and we were talking about how Holton Hill had a wide variance of possibilities for where he could end up that we didn't know that he could be either the starting outside corner or he could be still in the doghouse and then dead last on the depth chart and we also talked about how Jaleel Johnson needed this camp to step up because if he didn't, he might be on the outs.

And Jaleel Johnson himself quote tweeted one of the clips that we put out and said we did not know bleep. And it turns out that Jaleel Johnson was right. So I am here and you are here to apologize to Jaleel Johnson because the clip that he quote tweeted was talking about Holton Hill and how he might still be in the doghouse. He's not. He's with the first team. And Jaleel Johnson, also with the first team, looks like he'll be the starting three technique. So you were right, Jaleel. We apologize. Do you have the licensing to that One Republic song, Apologize? Can we play

that in the background during this segment? No, wait. Now, I'm not going to let Jaleel off the hook as easily. I think Holton deservedly is like entrenched as a first team corner. He's, you know, he's never wavered off of that status in the four practices that we've seen. And I think he's looked really good. I think Holton is probably in the mix, although Mike Zimmer is still not like ready to throw out compliments his way as he snarked at a reporter's question the other day who was trying to be nice about Holton and sort of tee up Zimmer to prop up Holton Hill. And instead Zimmer said something along the lines of, have you been watching the film? Which I thought was an odd comment because I felt like the film on Holden had been decent at least.

But digressing to Jaleel, a little bit of this is by default, right? Like this was before the Michael Pierce opt-out. So Michael Pierce was still like, I don't think Jaleel was going to be a starter at that point. And so far in camp, he is actually a starter next to Shamar Steffen. And we didn't know that Jalen Holmes was going to kind of get out of the way and be an end, so that took another body out of the mix. And we didn't know that James Lynch was going to be invisible. Like, there were a lot of, I think, players blocking his way, potentially,

that are no longer in the way. So, I mean, and not to diminish Jaleel, he, I think he's certainly has the most experience of like a lot of those kind of fringe candidates. And, and so far he's looked, he's looked good at camp. He's got that nose and three tech flexibility and versatility. And I don't know if it's a permanent move. They could still rotate someone else in, but for now, Jaleel Johnson, you are correct, sir. Well, and you, and he actually makes a decent point when he tweeted it a month ago. Now, the way that he tweeted it was a little on the aggressive side for Minnesota. But we actually didn't know, Bleep, because there were no minicamps.

There were no OTAs. And last Friday when we got on the field to see them, that was the first time since we had seen any football since they walked off the field in San Francisco we really didn't know how these things were going to play out and that's why we were discussing it and asking is Holton Hill still dead last on the depth chart and can't even get in the game when Xavier Rhodes is the worst corner in the NFL, which was the case last year? Or do they all of a sudden have a change of heart and decide, no, we want to see whether that

upside is actually there with Holton Hill. So let's talk a little bit more about him. He has taken almost all of the first team reps. I know that Cameron Dantzler has become the darling already because he's had a nice pass deflection and he's had an interception. Of course, the team puts out those clips to say, hey, look, this young player, this rookie is exciting. But Dantzler's only taken a handful of first-team reps. It's mostly been Holton Hill and Jeff Gladney's been working in. And, of course, Mike Hughes is also on the first team as well. But it seems like Hill is going to get every opportunity here.

And what I can't figure out, because things are so much different, Sam, is whether we would see a change as camp went on. Because in previous years, when there's a battle, oftentimes you do see a change. Like, well, this guy has shown that he can't do it over weeks or a preseason game. So now we're going to try somebody else. I'm thinking of the 2017 offensive line. It looks like it's set. No, we're going to tweak it and change it around. There really isn't time for that, so I think that the early things that we're seeing here are probably the way they want it to play out. There have been surprisingly few rotations, except for a select

few battles. I think we expected a lot more of that. And it's clear that the team made some predeterminations based on virtual meetings, based on walkthroughs, on who they felt was deserving. And it has been, I think, as we expected, leaning on veterans, you know, leaning on Dakota Dozier or Avion Collins at the guard spot. And then at corner, you know, leaning on Dakota Dozier or Avion Collins at the guard spot. And then at corner, you know, rotation between the two rookies, Gladney and Dantzler have been mixing in. But there's never been a question of Hill or Hughes being a starter. Like Gladney comes in in the nickel sometimes in, you know, those three wide receiver sets. And sometimes Dantzler comes in in three wide receiver sets and kicks my cues inside.

But yeah, we haven't seen a lot of rotating. Holton Hill, though, based on last year's numbers, like the four games where he played substantial snaps, and I actually might be referring to the year before because last year he had the suspension. In the four games two years ago where he played substantial snaps, like 50 or more, if you isolate those games on Pro Football Focus, he was a top 10 corner, like grade-wise. Now, I know that doesn't always equate perfectly, but I felt like he was serviceable enough as a rookie. That was his rookie year. And then last year, obviously, the huge setback.

He was really out of the loop for half the season, had to play catch-up. And it seems like he's still maybe playing catch-up in Mike Zimmer's eyes. Maybe that's sort of just public opinion, trying to gain his trust back, but I feel like Holton Hill's been really solid in this camp. I mean, he's always close to the play. He's not chasing after the play. It's sort of like we saw with Cam Dantzler yesterday when he got burned by Alexander Holland. Hill is in position, and he's got the size to break up a lot of those contested catches. So I think Hill has a chance not only to start this year and contribute, but I think he has a chance to be the best corner on the team. Mike Zimmer still says that Mike Hughes has a lot of confidence that he needs to build,

and we've seen his limitations, especially against bigger receivers. And if he's the slot guy, he's going to be facing a lot of bigger receivers. And I'm writing about this coming up soon about how, you know, the NFL is a very versatile, interchangeable league now. You've got like six, five receivers that can play easily in the slot and be very effective. So unless you have a big corner who can shadow, I don't know if they have a Xavier Rhodes who can do that anymore,

you might have Mike Hughes against a much taller guy in the slot. So I think Hill might actually be in position to be the team's best corner this year. I agree with you because he does have previous experience of showing he can do it, albeit, like you said, in a small sample size of only a couple of games. But the fact that he could come in as a rookie and hold his own for those few games at least shows us that the talent is there. And that was never the question. The question was not, is Holton Hill talented? It was, did Holton Hill's double four-game suspension show the team

that you're not that serious about this? And that was the concern coming out and the reason why he wasn't drafted. Everybody from the draft analysts' Twitter, I guess, had him as like a third round talent, fourth round talent, if not even higher than that. And to go undrafted where teams are picking long snappers and punters in the seventh round and not you because they're so concerned about your past at Texas. I mean, there's a reason to be skeptical of whether you can actually handle the pressure that comes along with being an NFL starter. And I think Zimmer was a little lukewarm when it came to answering the question even about Holton Hill's maturity. Now, he said, well, yeah, he's come in with a little bit different of an approach, a little bit more of a mature approach,

but still said that when he teaches them something one day, he's got to learn it for the next day. And those are the things that are hard to tell with us standing not only on the sideline, but away on the sideline is how guys are taking teaching on a day-to-day basis. And that's why from, I don't want to say real reporters because that sounds condescending, but I'll say it anyway. Real reporters often look at kind of things that we don't know and try to figure out how they feel about someone different ways than just, oh, he had a highlight during camp. Oh, he made a pass deflection during camp. Good for him. The team put it out on Twitter. And those are fun, and I think the Vikings do great videos, but usually

we're trying to figure it out through the way that they talk about someone, how effusive are they in their praise, and then what does it look like when it comes to the reps that they're getting, and the fact that Hill is getting those first team reps, to me, says they are giving him every chance to prove he can be a very good starter like they think he can be. Now, on Jaleel Johnson, Sam, this defensive line, if it's without Daniil Hunter, it's a problem, right? Like, I mean, good for Jaleel to get his opportunity here that he has not gotten through a couple of years, and we know what Shamar Steffen brings to the table, and they love to tell us all about it, but we don't know how Afadi Adenabo will handle a full-time defensive end role. There hasn't been a whole lot of exciting things to talk about with potential rotational

rushers unless you really are into Eddie Yarbrough's one first team rep that he got. You know, Kenny Willekes moving up to the second team was notable yesterday, but you know, you look at it without Daniel Hunter out there and you go, oh my gosh, this could be a huge, huge change from past years of Mike Zimmer defenses on the D-line. I think they've had five different bodies on the second team defensive end, and none of them are really inspiring. It's like Eddie Yarborough, Anthony Zettel, Stacey Keeley, who I'm guessing a lot of your listeners don't even know who that is, and then Kenny Willekes, and there was one more. I can't remember who it was.

But, yeah, Daniil Hunter tweaked something out for three three days I'm sure they're being very cautious but it gives you a glimpse oh uh Jalen Holmes that was the fifth one yeah so Jalen Holmes gets elevated to the first team defensive end right so you've got a converted end to tackle from college to pro now back to end after two seasons I mean that's kind of where they're at. I mean, they trust the converted tackle back to end more than they do anyone else on that roster, even like kind of veterans who have more NFL experience like Zettel or Yarbrough. It seems like they really like Yarbrough a lot. He's been sort of like their third guy in line, you know, with Hunter out. Zettel, they don't seem to like a lot at all.

I mean, he's been third team most of camp. DJ Wanham's been nowhere to be seen. I think a lot of rookies have been sort of invisible this camp, and that's probably because of their lack of experience. So you're seeing the picture coming together, and it's not a very fuzzy picture for Vikings fans. It's tough to tell the impact that Odenabo is making in these, you know, reps where he can't touch the quarterback. I think there's reason to believe, obviously, based on, you know, Andre Patterson's history and Odenabo's ascension that he is going to be good. But I mean, just be realistic. There might be an injury along the way. You're going to need to tap into that rotation. And even if there's not an injury, you're still going to need a rotation because they're not going to play

every single snap of every game. The Vikings ran four defensive ends last year, and they were fortunate to have Odenabo and Weatherly on either end. They're not going to have that luxury this year. So it might be Holmes and Keeley, Holmes and Yarborough as that second team. And that's a little scarier as a Vikings fan. And it gets really scary if one of those two suddenly becomes a first-teamer. Get back to the conversation in just a minute. But first, I have to tell you about something very cool from our friends at SodaStick. You probably know them for Minnesota sports-inspired hats and shirts and hoodies

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You want to get SodaStick's very cool prints. Go to SodaStick.com That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K dot com and use the promo code PurpleInsider for free shipping. Okay, here's my question for you. I want you to compare the two in terms of ranking where they would be if the Vikings had brought back Everson Griffin and

Michael Pierce had not opted out. Where would the Vikings defensive line rank in the NFL versus the current version that we're looking at right now, assuming Daniil Hunter is fine and he's healthy? I mean, like, eighth and now, like, 28th. I mean, it's a gigantic difference. Michael Pierce, I think, was going to be really good, like probably top quarter of the players at his position. Everson Griffin, probably a top 20 defensive end. Daniil Hunter, top five. I mean, you had three really, really good players.

I don't know about the fourth in that mix, but the three were really, really good. Now I think you've got one stud, and you need to have two, because when you have one, that's just easier to scheme against offensively. So they need Odenabo to emerge, or they need, you know, maybe it's Jaleel. Maybe Jaleel shows sort of that penetration that we've seen at times with him. I think he showed it in preseason really early in his career against second and third teamers, and I think there was a glimpse of what he could be there. Maybe that's the play.

Maybe they get really good, you know, pressure inside from him, but they need someone else to step up to help Daniil out, assuming that he is healthy. The positive spin on this could be that they get to find out. If you have Michael Pierce and if you get Everson Griffin back, yeah, you are a lot better. I'm 28th with still having Daniil Hunter. It might be a little on the low side, but I agree they're a top 10 defensive line if Michael Pierce is healthy and Everson Griffin comes back. And they're definitely not a top 10 as you would project them right now with their current starters. But if Afadi Adenabo is an 8-10 sack guy, if he's playing all the time there,

if Jaleel Johnson can create more penetration than we saw last year from the three-technique position, and Shamar Stephan can just be a nose tackle and do the things that nose tackles are asked to do, which is just stuff the middle. Although, the one thing I would say is not to underrate how good Michael Pierce actually is at football. I was looking at this, how often he either created a quarterback pressure or had a run stop in terms of per snap basis. Now he takes a lot less snaps than the top players, but his rate of making an impact type of play, pressure or run

stop, was just as high as Linvald Joseph in 2017. Some of the better even pass rushing nose tackles or defensive tackles, he was right up there in terms of how often he's able to either get a pressure or a run stop to not have that. It is a pretty big drop-off, even if Shamar Stephan is average and he does the job the way that they ask him to do it. But at least for a lot of things, we get to find out in 2020 to know going forward. So you'll know if Holton Hill is good. You'll have a good sense for if Cam Dantzler is more than just a couple of good days at training camp, or if Jeff Gladney

can play, or if Afadi Adenabo can handle this, or even on the offensive side, is Aviant Collins actually a guard or what? I mean, the guy's been around since 2017 and we've barely ever seen him play, but now all these guys get a chance. It's almost like there's a shade of like week 17 to it where you get to see real action from some of these players that you don't know. And yet you also have it mixed with a bunch of guys who have been to the Pro Bowl. And I think it makes them for one of the more fascinating teams to watch maybe in the entire NFL because of that mix. Yeah, it's tough for them that they have to kind of have that experimental game against the Packers on September 13th. That's not great for the Vikings perhaps. And Mike Zimmer has said that it's going to

require some trial and error a little bit when you start the season. And he's projecting that there might be guys that will play a lot early who might not be ready yet, but then as the year goes on, they will develop. He's said that. So I think they know there's going to be growing pains and they're sort of willing to accept that. I think the dream scenario on the defensive line was you get Griffin back, you still have Hunter, you improve upon Joseph in the form of Pierce, and maybe you can improve upon Stephan at the three tech and suddenly you've got two great defensive ends and then interior improvements and suddenly you're better than you were last year. And instead, I think they're probably declining from Joseph.

They're declining from Griffin. And they're probably staying static. I mean, I guess if Stefan at the nose, maybe Stefan's a more effective nose. And then maybe Johnson or whoever is a more effective three tech than Stefan would have been sort of a circular improvement there. But yeah, it's harder to be optimistic. But it's going to be intriguing. I mean, it's going to be a blast just to see how this all unfolds and what the Vikings are going

to do with these players, just because we fell into these rhythms, Matthew. We fell into these rhythms early in the game. Okay, who's Xavier Rhodes shadowing? Okay, check that off the list. Like, you know, which receiver is the the third one in the pecking order okay check that off the list is Pat Offline letting somebody buy okay check that off the list like well we had all these routines we got into and now throw it all out the window like Mike Zimmer's going to have this totally unique game plan on defense to uh to unfold and he's probably going to keep it pretty close to the vest, you know, leading up to week one. So that's going to be really compelling viewing for us and for all the fans.

So I have one more important camp question for you, and then I have an Internet thing that I think you and I should address because it's important. We talked about the variance with Holton Hill going into camp. Well, he could be a guy that they don't give any first-team reps to, or he could be the starter and never give the job up like that. Those were the wide range of possibilities. How wide are the range of possibilities for the receiving group, do you think?

I mean, so far, Alex Holland's showing some stuff. Chad Beebe looks pretty good. Justin Jefferson looks very good, but he's not taking the outside first team reps. B.C. Johnson looks very good, but I think it's pretty wide here with the whole receiving group. Yeah, I think that's maybe one pretty big surprise of camp is that B.C. Johnson is not only like a kind of a seat warmer, like number two receiver, but like actually like pretty bona fide number two at this point, he's been,

he's been making plays high pointing footballs. Like I think he's been a pretty good number two. And I think Jefferson is appropriately number three right now. There was one day where Chad Beebe was number three. It seems like they've given Jefferson more of those looks lately. So I think he's probably your three right now. Beebe, you know, still gets lauded with praise. And I think he's in the mix. Obviously, Tajay Sharp.

I think Sharp is on the team unless somebody steps up to replace him. And I don't know if that's going to be like a KJ Osborne or Courtney Davis. Neither of them have really impressed me through four practices. So I think Sharp is safe as of August 19th or whatever it is today. Remember, you don't know bleep. We might have to do an apology podcast to KJ Osborne. Yeah, and I'm happy to do that. I'm happy to be proved wrong.

But I think we're looking at a situation where you could have, I think, two different wide receiver twos, Johnson or Jefferson. I think you could have any number of, you know, wide receiver threes and fours. I mean, and I think, like Kubiak said this, they'll run out four most games. So, and probably not play the fifth one all that much. And that could be, I guess, Osborne's role as like a punt returner and sort of non-impact wide receiver um but yeah I don't know if any of the like lower fringe wide receivers are really threatening which makes it maybe a little easier calculation like if Courtney Davis had been really good I think that would have made things tougher

but I think he's probably destined for practice squat. Dan Chisna is probably not going to, you know, he's for sure not going to make the team practice squad maybe. And Alex Hollins is probably the wild card here. Like Dylan Mitchell has been dropping balls every day. They already cut Davion Davis. So I think Alex Hollins is the only maybe wild card in that mix. He's looked pretty good. So he'd be the guy to maybe threaten that KJ Osborne spot. Yeah, the Hollins thing, if you're the Vikings and you feel like Hollins has more potential than Tajay Sharp, then you just keep Hollins because Sharp's the guy you brought in from outside. And even though he's looked okay to me, you're not seeing a ton

of first team reps or anything else like that or him rotating in it seems they are really locked into bc johnson and i think when someone's drafted in the seventh round and this went for adam thielen too i remember going into 2017 people were like was adam thielen's 2016 really legit because just you know the reputation of a guy that was not drafted and all of us who saw it went, yeah, I think it actually is. And, you know, it turns out that now he's a superstar. I'm not saying B.C. Johnson's going to be a superstar. I'm saying when someone shows you they can play as fast as he did as a seventh-round pick,

it's impressive. And even though the ceiling isn't as high as someone like Justin Jefferson, he has looked even better this year, I think even in better shape, a little more explosive. And I think they're going to use him down the field more. I wouldn't be surprised if B.C. Johnson, I mean, maybe a little, but I wouldn't be stunned if B.C. Johnson has the second most receptions on this team. Would you? No, not after what I've seen. And I owe BC Johnson an apology too. This is what I wrote before camp. I sort of pooh-poohed the notion that Johnson was like a lock to be this, you know, impact player. And I acknowledge that year one to year two can

be a big jump, so you can improve. But last year he was like bottom 15 in yards per route run. He was like one yard per route run. He was not a downfield threat really at all. And his average separation at the catch point was 2.5 yards. And he was getting like incredible cushion. Like no one was playing press on him and he wasn't getting a ton of separation. And I just felt like those were signs that maybe it wasn't going to be sustainable, but I think he's, he's improved a lot. And I think he, from what we've seen might be a downfield threat this year. And most importantly, he knows what he's doing. Like he's really, really smart. That's what earned him the look last year. And that's more than you can say for a lot of young receivers. Sometimes if you're lined up

properly, this coaching staff values attention to detail. And that's why Cordero Patterson was on the outs. That's why Laquan Treadwell, you know, among other things was on the outs. They want guys that are, you know, smart and are not going to be a liability in like the precision of their routes. And Johnson fits the bill there. And maybe there is going to be a big leap like the precision of their routes and Johnson fits the bill there and maybe there is going to be a big leap for him from year one to year two I don't think it's unrealistic especially if let's say that they kind of hold off on Jefferson for the first quarter of the season like they did with Diggs I mean Johnson could be the number two guy uh it's it's not outlandish and uh speaking of that one thing that Gary Kubiak said that sort of stuck in my mind

about Jefferson was how much he loved talking about routes and wanting to be a route technician. Like, you would not have heard that about Cordero Patterson and Laquan Treadwell. Even when the hype train is going for first-round picks, these coaches, sometimes they can't help themselves. Like, you remember even early days of Laquan Treadwell Zimmer saying he couldn't get route depths right like you will usually get a hint if there's something wrong haven't gotten that with Justin Jefferson now the important internet thing people keep tweeting things like hey how many yards would you gain if you played three plays in the NFL and they gave

you the ball three times in a row and then what you see is all these responses of people saying, well, you know, I think I'd get like two or three yards or I could push forward or jump over the pile. You would die. That's what would happen. If you go out on an NFL field as a regular dude, you'd be in the hospital after one play. That's all you would ever get unless you immediately went into the fetal position. That is the end of that conversation. It needs to stop happening. There are lots of fun ways to talk about this. Could you catch a punt? We've debated this on the sideline at training camp, and I asked Amir Abdullah about it. He said not if the punter's really trying, but if he just punts it straight up and down, you could catch it. You aren't running anywhere. Stop it.

This needs to be over. People need to stop tweeting these things. So that being said, Collar, could you catch a punt? Yes, but not a real punt. Like when they're practicing, when they're just kicking it up in the air and say they're trying like their coffin corner, which, you know, amazing drill on old Madden, which needs to come back. Thank you, Madden. Bring back those training camp drills. But if they're just kicking it straight up and straight down, I could definitely catch it. And

here's how I know. They have interns out there running around catching them. So if they can do it, these kids that are in college that don't look like athletes at all, yeah, I can do it. I can catch one. If Britton Colquitt punts it as high as he possibly can with a knuckle punt, which apparently falls back down through the air all messed up, no chance at doing that. But I think a regular-style punt, I could at least haul in maybe two out of five. Yeah. I mean, I've seen NFL rookies come in and get embarrassed trying to catch punts. So I do believe that. I think

anything like 11 on 11 live football would just be a disaster for someone like you and me. I mean, obviously people that don't know me, I'm like kind of Alex Holland's style of body. I've got that lean, lean, mean thing going on. I would, I'm a scat back, you know, but no, I wouldn't last one hit. So I get as many yards as I could on that one run. And then I would hang up the cleats. So hopefully I got some good blocking. Hopefully I knew where to go. I think you've got to make some pretty quick decisions on on your gap but no odds are that'd be a TFL for somebody or maybe it would just be like a butt fumble situation where I'd run into Garrett Bradbury's butt sweat would like knock the ball out of my hands if you even get to him I mean like you're five six seven yards back off the line of scrimmage, meaning you have to go that far before they hit you,

and that's pretty unlikely right there unless you get unbelievable blocking. But then as soon as you're hit, that is one thing that I don't think until you've stood next to them or you've been on the sideline for training camp that you can truly comprehend. And I would say this for all pro sports. Like, I went to a Lynx game and a friend of mine had courtside tickets. So we sat right on the court, like first row and Sylvia Fowles, oh my God, is the biggest person ever. Like, oh yeah, man, those WNBA players are not great. I could

score on them. Nope. No, you couldn't. You'd have zero points, 17 turnovers. They would destroy you. They're so much bigger, so much faster. And then think about Daniil Hunter. Like you actually can't comprehend how much stronger Daniil Hunter is than you are. If four or five of us reporters tried to like together lift what he lifts at the same time, we probably couldn't do it. So, you know, these people who are putting out these, like, it's a fun conversation if you're talking about something fairly realistic like catching a punt, but actually playing against them, I don't think so. The one thing you might be able to do, take a shotgun snap and pitch it to a running back.

You might be able to do that. So of the big four major sports, I think football is probably the hardest for like the average person to even attempt to play just because it's hard to like practice football in your driveway, you know, like realistic football. Of the others, Collar, which one do you think you could succeed even in the slightest bit at? Well, I think that the one, I would put it this way, the one that you might be able to fool people for a very short period of time would be hockey on the power play. Like if you skated out there on a power play where Nicholas Backstrom and

John Carlson are just controlling the puck, passing it back and forth, and you're standing in the Ovechkin spot. Like, maybe someone might think that you were an NHL player for a second, but as soon as they pass you the puck and you completely whiffed on it because it was way too fast for you to be able to handle, then everyone would realize. But even then, pucks get, you know, they go through guys and bounce around, so you might just be like, oh, I missed it. My bad. That would be the one. I don't think that you ever get a shot off but maybe the puck bounces off of you and you could skate around a little and have people think that you were an NHL player that's the best I can do though I mean major league baseball you could stand in the outfield for an inning I bet you could catch a fly ball like now that if it's a line drive, you have no shot.

It's going to hurt you. Or it's going to fly right over you or land in front of you and then skip by you. It's just too fast. But a regular run-of-the-mill pop fly, maybe where you come in on it a little, you might be able to fool people into thinking that you're an outfielder for an inning. Yeah, I can barely skate, so hockey's out of the equation for me. Baseball was mine as sort of the path you were going down. A defensive replacement, I don't want to hit.

I just want to be the defensive replacement, and I think there's a couple positions where you can blend in a little bit. Like outfield, I think the fly balls are one thing, but what if you have to make a throw from the warning track and hit a cutoff man or get a ball to the plate. I can't do that probably. So I think the only position where I could maybe blend in and not make too many errors for one or two innings would be like second base where I don't have to throw too far across the diamond. I'm not getting like hot smashes like you do at first or third base.

I might be able to do a little bit of a Louisa Rise impression just a couple innings and maybe even help turn a double play. We'll see. I think I could have done better than the second baseman last night in the ninth inning who threw it over Marwin Gonzalez's head. That's a good one because you're right. If they hit a line drive down into the corner and you have to chase it as the outfielder you have to throw from the corner to the cutoff man it is dribbling to the cutoff man at best and that's if he even gives you some like we don't realize how far of a throw that actually is from the outfield wall to the cutoff man but if you had played

baseball at even like a decent level you you might, and you still practice throwing, you might be able to make that look okay or a slow dribbler to second look okay if it's a fat guy running. I mean, that's about the best you can do in terms of all the pro sports. People said with basketball, oh, I could get one shot up.

Not if the defense knows it's you out there and they're trying to stop you. Like not if they're like, oh, they put a regular guy out there. I gonna shut him down then you get zero points and they I don't even think you get to dribble like you get it you're like okay and then as soon as you bounce it they just take it and run the other way and done like we actually can't comprehend until you've been there and you've met them how huge basketball and NFL players actually are so I like the conversation.

I think it can be fun. But if you're doing it in terms of, would you be able to guard Julio Jones for one play? Like, no, not for one tenth of a second. So anyway, thank you for that. Thank you for indulging me in that, like, please internet stop driving me insane thing. Well, Sam, we've got to go because Mike Zimmer is going to talk,

and then we've got practices to cover. So I really appreciate your time as always, and we'll do it again soon, buddy. Thanks, Collar. We'll see you out there. And read Sam's work, zonecoverage.com. We'll get back to the conversation in just a minute, but first got to tell you about TheraOne CBD. From tight muscles, tough workouts, signs of aging, to simply making

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And it's time to break it down in the only way we know how. Hot rocks style. Earl! Johnny! With our spin on football headlines. With a mix of frozen tundras. Let's be a cold weather team. Netrolls. I do boom! And grass-stained jerseys. headlines with a mix of frozen tundras let's be a cold weather team net rolls and grass game jerseys the good old-fashioned guts was probably the biggest difference in the game

all right before we wrap up for the day we welcome back in as always intern paul who has written some wonderful hot routes what is up intern Paul not much just excited that we have actual football questions to ask not crazy hypotheticals however we still will have those just to mix in to sprinkle in some actual football takes is nice I know that you were struggling at some points during the offseason because 85% of the headlines that you were working with were pretty much all just COVID related. And now it's been great how little of a story COVID has been. It's like everybody got themselves together on time and it seems to be going okay. And we'll see how much longer that lasts but at least for now

enjoy this COVID-less glow so why don't you just start us right off Paul with your first hot route of the day all right so my first one um on Wednesday Philip Rivers of the Colts told the media he is looking to find the sweet spot between aggressive and stupid which I just found hilarious that that was the line he's trying to tow and so with that I was wondering which Vikings players do you feel like walks that Philip Rivers line between aggressive and stupid and or which Viking needs to work on maybe finding that line a little bit better well I mean the first one that comes to mind is just Kirk Cousins, that he could be a little bit more aggressive at times.

I think that that's a pretty common criticism of him. Now, the data doesn't really back this up as far as him throwing into coverage, but it does when it comes to his rate of big-time throws. That's a statistic that Pro Football Focus has. And it just doesn't show up as much as some other quarterbacks that take more shots into double coverage and things like that. And I think the biggest frustration for Vikings fans with his lack of aggressiveness is when they're down by a touchdown or two touchdowns

and you see that check down to C.J. Hamm. And it's like every loss has the famed check down to C.J. Hamm. And it's like every loss has the famed check down to C.J. Hamm when he's not being aggressive enough. There was week 16 against the Packers, the first drive, they get a turnover, first play, he checks down to C.J. Hamm. You have in Kansas City when they lost, they had a final drive, same sort of thing. Even, it wasn't C.J. Hamm, but even against the Seahawks in the loss on fourth down, he throws it short of the sticks to Irv Smith Jr., giving him basically no chance to get a first down on fourth down. So I think that people would like to see that with Cousins. Now,

as far as the other guys, it's hard to tell because there are so many new faces here that are taking these jobs. Because when I think of aggressive and stupid, I think of cornerbacks and quarterbacks, like corners being so aggressive that they're going to try to intercept every pass and whoops, you missed. And the guy ran for a 50 yard touchdown. We'll see if that's Jeff Gladney or if that's Cam Dantzler, if Dantzler gets a shot to start,

if either one of those guys becomes that. But it's definitely not Harrison Smith or Anthony Harris. Those guys know exactly when to take the right risks and are extremely good at that. But young corners, that suggests that we might see a few over-aggressive plays this year. Yeah, and that's why when I thought of this line of guys that fit right in between it, the first guys that came to mind were Harrison Smith and Anthony Harris, just guys that know exactly when to be aggressive, know exactly when not to be. I think Harris's, you might see it a little bit more with the interception numbers, but I think Harrison Smith is definitely the best at doing that. We just don't always see it. We see him with the blitzing and the dropping back and everything like that. He seems to fit that mold the best. I agree. Moving on to question two, now that we're kind of, or hot route two, I'm sorry. We just mentioned, yes, we just mentioned, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Still, we still have our, have our bumps. You mentioned Cam Dantzler and everyone's kind of jumping on the Cam Dantzler

hype train early on in camp here. But I want to know other players you're pleasantly surprised with and maybe some guys that have struggled so far. Well, I think that Tajay Sharp is a guy who has looked pretty good. And I've mentioned this before on the show, but he was always the one that screamed like they signed this guy. We make a big deal out of it, where's it going to fit in the offense? And then he just doesn't make the team. I think that Sharp has a pretty good chance to make the team. It seems like he and Chad Beebe are battling it out. Beebe is another guy who has had some drops, but overall has looked pretty good, and the Vikings have made it clear how much they like Chad Beebe. So that battle is going to be really interesting to watch. Alexander Hollins is also a guy who has performed pretty darn well and looks

like he has a chance to make the roster too. So they're a little bit cramped there at that receiver position because these guys are stepping up and performing pretty well. I would also say that Jalen Holmes filling in for Daniil Hunter back at defensive end has looked a lot better than he ever looked at defensive tackle, even just through a couple of practices and a couple of practices that have some real aggressiveness to them. He looked like he might make this team as a rotational rusher who could come in and play on the inside, play on the outside. I think in terms of the disappointments, Courtney Davis was a highly hyped undrafted free agent. Have not seen a single thing from him. And the rotational rushers that

they drafted, aside from Kenny Willekes, who got some second team reps, have seen absolutely nothing from those guys. Haven't seen them get bumped up to the second team very often or anything like that. So James Lynch hasn't made much of an impact yet. DJ Wanham hasn't made much of an impact yet. I mean, these guys probably need quite a bit more development. You draft him and you go, all right, where does he fit in on the roster? But if you look at the past, Afadi Adenabo took several years, Stephen Weatherly took several years, and even someone like Jalen Holmes, who's now emerging, took several years as well.

So I think you can expect that from those guys rather than thinking, oh, yeah, they'll jump right in and make a big impact. Anything that, like, sticks out to you on the offensive line, either struggling or doing well? Because I think everyone was kind of hoping Drew Samia would be that guy. I think he just has not been out there that often to maybe be able to tell, but maybe on the offensive line, anything to go off there? Well, one thing the offensive linemen are probably thrilled about is that

Everson Griffin isn't here and Linval Joseph isn't here and Michael Pierce isn't here and Daniil Hunter hasn't been practicing. This is the best the offensive line has looked in any training camp that I've covered, but I think that that's a bit of a quality of competition issue rather than, oh my gosh, they're ready to take that next step. Though I do think if they get even average play out of whatever is at left guard, whether it's Avion Collins or Dakota Dozier, that they could be serviceable as an offensive line, not horrendous as they were in 2018 and maybe a slight upgrade from where they were last year.

But yeah, good question about Drew Samia. He's just been running with the twos. It's been Ezra Cleveland at left guard, Drew Samia at right guard. And my thing here is go with the experienced players. It makes sense. The guys who know the offense and who have been around and who have played in NFL games before. But if they struggle, you know who's coming in after them.

So Ezra Cleveland is breathing down the neck of Dakota Dozier, and Drew Samia is breathing down the neck of Pat Elfline. It wouldn't make much sense to start the rookies right off the top in training camp, or the young players, and then say, oh, sorry, veteran, you're benched. Give the veteran a chance to prove himself, and then if it doesn't go well,, you're benched. We give the veteran a chance to prove himself. And then if it doesn't go well, then you can bump up that other guy. All right.

And you've been at camp now nearly a week. And we talked about it at the beginning that COVID really hasn't been much of a discussion as much now we're getting into the player stuff. But I want to know, now that you've been at camp for about a week and there haven't been many COVID numbers throughout the league rising at all, where is your confidence level that a season could be completed now that you're actually there, you're seeing it and everything? So I saw a report from Tom Palacero the other day about on the road,

players basically have to be locked down in their hotels, which seems a little bit, I don't know, scary. Like, you know, it just, wow, this is pro sports and guys are being locked in their hotels. But it's what you have to do if you want to play a full season. And I said this before, it was my hope that NFL would look at baseball and say, let's not make the same mistakes. And that seems to be coming to fruition, that they say, let's not make the same mistakes. And that seems to be coming to fruition, that they said, let's not give players any option. Because remember, baseball at the beginning, they advised players not to go to bars or clubs or anything like that. You can't just advise.

You have to make it against the rules or we'll take your money so people will adhere to the rules because there's a lot of human beings that you need to keep in your semi-bubbles. The fact that they only travel eight times, can you get it done eight times where you can travel safely and then come back? My confidence level in a full season right now I think is higher than it's ever been having seen it in play and how much they're taking care with daily testing all the way through the beginning of September and so forth and all these different measures that they've put in place. I'm going to say right now that I'm leaning like 70% confidence that they're able to complete this full season, which is way, way higher than I would have been even two or three weeks ago. Yeah, I agree. Just not seeing the news come out. Obviously, we know it's still there, and we know at some point players are probably going to get it, and we're going to have to deal with scenarios that maybe the MLB had to deal with maybe on a

smaller level, hopefully. But to just see training camp start and to see just more news that is just football centric is kind of taking COVID off my mind, even though we're having all these COVID football discussions in college football. It's been nice to not see that in the NFL. And I hope that with just the infrastructure that the NFL has compared to college is able to just mask any potential COVID outbreaks. And then moving on to our higher on number four, the ringer on Thursday, Kevin Clark put out a piece trying to figure out why we hyped the wrong teams. Because last year, they had a whole week dedicated to the Browns.

They spent a whole week in covering the Browns. And then we saw how that went with Freddie Kitchens. Now they have Kevin Stefanski. Maybe it'll be different this year. So I was trying to figure out which teams might we be like a year too early on. That seems to kind of be the trend. We're really, really hot on a team. They struggle. And then we kind of come off them and then they bounce back after we're not really thinking about them. So which teams are we a year too early on hyping this year? Well, I did want to say that last year, if anybody listened to the old show, they know that we were skeptical of the Cleveland Browns, especially our pal Eric Eager, who runs the

numbers and said, I just don't see it for this team being as good as everyone has them. And so I guess I wasn't as shocked, but it is a great article angle from Kevin. Well, there's a couple options here. One of them is Arizona that, you know, you're talking about the same potential draft a quarterback number one overall, and then you build up the roster. Everyone says, okay, you're ready to take the next step. But then Arizona has a really tough

division that they've got to play. The difference is Freddie Kitchens was clueless. That man had no idea how to be an NFL head coach. He went from running back coach to in charge of an entire organization. And that is just way too much to ask from him. And then his whole plan was, I'm just going to let Baker Mayfield do whatever the heck he wants. And I'm going to be from him. And then his whole plan was, I'm just going to let Baker Mayfield do whatever the heck he wants. And I'm going to be his pale. Well, that's not how you handle yourself as an NFL head coach. And Freddie Kitchens proved that pretty quick. Now, the Dallas Cowboys would be one that I have my eye on here. I mean, they have everything that screams you could be a Super Bowl contender, a good quarterback, a really strong roster,

a new coach coming in with a fresh message and different tweaks that they can make. They had a top offense last year, but you just never know. Maybe you get injuries or, you know, if you lose one or two of those wide receivers, is Dak Prescott the same? Are they going to be able to cover anybody with Byron Jones leaving? That's a possibility that they could disappoint. The one that has red flags on it, though, for me, maybe the most, is the Denver Broncos. I don't know that we should say Drew

Locke is a great starting quarterback after about five games last year, in which he still had a below league average quarterback rating. I am not ready to crown their ass, as Denny Green might say, when it comes to the Denver Broncos. Plus, you consider their division. So I think that they are getting a lot of hype as that team. Like, oh, they've got their young quarterback. Now they're ready to take the next step. I think the roster's good, but I'm not sold on the quarterback.

And the same for the Buffalo Bills. Tons of hype. I just don't believe in Josh Allen. And they've got a chance, their best chance in a really long time to win that division, but a way harder schedule this year and a quarterback who cannot throw accurately. So that sort of screams 7-9 in disappointment. Yeah, personally, I understand the Broncos hype just after years of watching a Vikings quarterback and grabbing a little glimpse of hope I get from the Vikings quarterback

and trying to carry that over and thinking that, oh, this is going to be the year we found the quarterback only for it to struggle while the roster is good. So personally, I understand the Broncos hype and I feel for them because I can kind of see where it could go. I can envision the progress they're going to take and it not work. So that is definitely a good one. I had Arizona as my number one team as well, just to kind of fit that number one quarterback mold, as you said. And they just have a really hard division. You never know. But I don't think Cliff Kingsbury is like Freddie Kitchens. I think maybe last year we thought Cliff Kingsbury was going to be a Freddie Kitchens.

We didn't know how he'd do with the limited, well, not having any NFL experience at all. I think they're going to be better, but they would be one of those teams that have a lot of talent that maybe just will fall short of expectations. I'll add one more from that division, and that is Seattle. They make the big trade for Jamal Adams, but you look at that roster, it's not what it used to be. I think Wilson has more weapons than he's had in the last couple of years that they've added a couple of people there. But that defense, I'm not really sold on.

I'm definitely not sold on their run-first mentality when you have an elite quarterback. And, again, the division, if Arizona does take that step, who's falling off? We know that the Rams, or at least we have a good sense for the Rams, are not going to be 13-3, but Seattle has got that chance to be the team that got so much hype because of a trade and then completely disappoint. Yeah, one thing on Seattle is I was kind of in that neighborhood with you, and then yesterday I read the Mike Sando quarterback schedule thing that you tweeted out.

The Vikings are number one, by the way, not great. But Seattle is near the bottom. So they're not facing many great quarterbacks at all. So I was looking at that and I was saying, well, they're not the great defense they used to be. But if they have Russell Wilson, they're not facing a great quarterback schedule. That's one of those things where I could see Pete Carroll, just the defense, where they can kind of implement that consistency that they've had, and so you're not going through as many

changes as many teams are during this time when we don't know how things are going, so I'm a little bit more bullish on Seattle just because of that continuity, because of that QB schedule that they're not facing, so yeah, I'm just a little bit higher on them. A couple others that I wanted to mention, um, you, you on this podcast and a lot of people are starting to kind of pump up the lions, just kind of optimistically, not, there's not a lot of hype to them, but there's like some cautious optimism just based on how Stafford did last year in his limited time. And I think that's warranted. And I wouldn't say this is a team that's getting hyped, but I think you just always have to say, well, there's Matt Patricia. So they could be a team that's a year too early only because next year, they probably don't have Matt Patricia. And maybe they have a coach coming in, and then we'll start hyping them up. And maybe next year could be their time because Matt Stafford will still be young enough to do really well. Kenny Galladay will still be in the prime of his career. He'll have Jeff Okuda going into his second year. They'll have some of that just continuity going.

Hopefully maybe a new coach can kind of take them somewhere else. So that was a name. And then – So real quick on Detroit. They are the team that the smart people are saying could surprise. So it's like what is hype? I mean I think Detroit on the national stage is completely under the radar. And like Eric Eager or Mike Clay, who was on the show the other day, they're saying,

you know, they've got all the earmarks of a team that takes a big step here. So it's kind of like the analytical hype usually does come to fruition. That was the 49ers last year. So we'll see on that one. Yeah, I think if they had fired Matt Patricia and they had a new hot shot coach, maybe they are a team that is getting hyped, but it's Matt Patricia that's keeping them down, and that's why I would be a little bit questioning them. And then the two final ones don't fit the Browns mold at all from last year, but it's almost like they can't really be a year too early. Next year might be too late for them almost. With the Colts, with Phillip Rivers, the roster could be great next year again, but there's a lot of hype for the Colts, but if Phillip Rivers isn't

what they need him to be, the hype just might not work and it might fizzle out and they might not even have a next year. And then along those same lines, the Bucs, we don't know how long Tom Brady has, but they have a proven coach. They have those proven talents. So it's not the Browns mold, but if we're a year too early on them, next year might not be a great year for them. It's a great point about the Bucs that I just sort of cruised over. The Bucs are obviously this year's Browns of the team that makes the huge offseason acquisition, just like it was OBJ for Cleveland. And then Brady comes in. I've just decided in my brain that it's going to work because it's Tom Brady and it's Tampa Bay. And I think I'm like, okay, they're going to win like 11 or 12 games and just

move on. But that is the team that if they ended up going 6-10 would be a massive, massive bust in terms of the offseason hype. All right, your last hot route. Yep. So yesterday there was some, like, buzz that Yannick Ngakwe could finally be on the move. I think I immediately thought, well, the Vikings have a lot of holes there. And we've kind of been talking all offseason about, oh, they have cap space. They're going to add someone. They're going to add someone.

They're going to save some for Dalvin. And then they're going to add someone somewhere. But it hasn't happened yet. We're in training camp. Workouts are starting to happen with other teams. But we really haven't heard anything about the Vikings. So what's the probability you think that the Vikings actually add someone now that you've been at training camp, you've seen kind of where they're at, you've talked to them about how they

feel in certain positions? Every day, it gets lower, the probability that they're going to make a change. And I think there's a lot of value in finding out what you have this year. As much as that sounds like, well, you're not doing everything you can to win, but if you sign Terrell Suggs or Cameron Wake to a one-year deal and he takes snaps away from Afadi Adenabo, like, does that really help you? Maybe. I mean, if you're winning the division and Cameron Wake gets five sacks and a handful of pressures on third downs, that's really helpful for you. But then you're not seeing Afadi Adenabo in those situations,

and you don't know if you can go forward with him, but the fact that they did chase Everson Griffin, at least to some extent, tells me that, yeah, I think that they're still keeping an eye out here, and the Ngakwe thing would be a huge splash for them. The only problem is, the Jaguars probably want a lot lot and they feel like, why should we trade them right now? We don't have to, if we don't want to. And that's a rebuilding team that doesn't need to panic. They can hold out and wait and wait and wait and try to get a first round pick for them. And I just can't see the Vikings where they are right now in their trajectory saying, oh yeah, let's trade a first round pick for a defensive end when we're developing defensive ends when we drafted defensive ends and the guys uh at the right and left side were a fourth rounder and griffin and

a third rounder and hunter that they developed into superstar players so they're probably thinking let's see if we can do that again before we spend big but that would be a really fun splash I just they might add somebody else but I'm I'm just not thinking that they're going to go big here I think they're going to roll forward with what they got yeah and I think earlier early on we were thinking oh they'll probably add a line depth they might add corner depth after the couple days it seems like I mean I don't want to get ahead of ourselves but cornerback seems like they've got some good options there. Where I'm really looking at now is on that defensive line. We've seen what it looks like without Daniil Hunter. And so Yannick might be a little bit too much of a pipe dream in terms of how much they'd have to give up and they'd have to pay him. And we don't know how

that would fit with the salary cap for the Vikings moving forward. But if they could add some sort of piece on that D-line that's experienced, I think that would really help because when you're looking at a Jalen Holmes, Shemar, Stephan, Jaleel Johnson, a body-identical line, that's not going to strike a lot of fear in opposing offenses. And I'd question how well the Vikings' defense could do if that's their defensive line, even if the corners are good, even if the safeties and linebackers stay where they're at yeah you're one injury away from this being one of the poorest defensive lines in the entire NFL and I agree if you're going to add

someone somewhere since you're seemingly rolling with Dakota Dozier and seeing what happens with Ezra Cleveland and Drew Samia that's okay okay. That's a fine approach. But on the defensive line, yeah, after a week of getting to see it, I think it would make a lot of sense to sign somebody else. I'm even okay with them rolling with Stephan at nose tackle. It's can you get somebody else who can get after the passer would be the question. And Anthony Zettel is running with the third team. Eddie Yarbrough has done a little bit. He's a guy who's been around to some extent. but there are still names on the free agent market that they

could go after. So the one thing, the one rule, intern Paul, forever for the Vikings is do not count anything out because you just never know. They traded for Randy Moss back in 2010. The roof collapsed. Like just never count anything out, and that's going to be my approach. So great stuff on Hot Routes, Paul. We will get together again very soon. Perfect. Thanks, man. Sports are coming back.

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