Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the new players going to play for the Vikings vs. Chargers?

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Matthew Coller, Andrew Krammer of the Star Tribune and Will Ragatz from Sports Illustrated talk about whether Cam Akers will play right away and whether he has a chance to take over the RB1 job. Plus, why Dalton Risner needs to play right away and what our reactions will be if the Vikings win or lose Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider and the Ragged's Roundtable is back. Matthew Collar here, Will Raggetts of Sports Illustrated and Andrew Kramer of the Star Tribune. And we are trying to light ourselves a little bit better, but we are in an echoey closet inside TCO Performance Center. Just after listening to Brian Flores talk about why the defense gave up a lot of yards rushing and how they are going to improve things, we've got Cam Akers takes to get to, Dalton Reisner, there is a lot. So I will hand it over to you, Will, and you can decide where you want to go first with the Raggits roundtable.

What do you want to talk about? I mean, first of all, it's an exciting week for me as kind of like a football sicko. And just this game, recent history, the Vikings and the Chargers, it just seems they always have weird games and weird things happen and chaos. So it's kind of like a playoff game. When you look at it, if you start 0-3 and both these teams are 0-2, just the history of making it to the playoffs, your odds are not very good. So both these teams are going to come in. They're going to be desperate. They really are going to need this win, and I see it being a high-scoring game where almost anything could happen.

I think we should start, though, with kind of the news of this week. It's been a busy week. The Vikings are 0-2, and maybe that means desperation has kicked in a little bit. They planned on coming into this year and contending and running it back and winning the NFC North again. They've had some flaws, so they bring in Dalton Reisner. They trade for Cam Akers. We could talk about whether or not these are things that they maybe should have been thinking about and doing two months ago, so these guys would already be up to speed in the playbook. But what do we kind of make of just in general what it means that

they're kind of going for this now and addressing some needs after just two games? Yeah, clearly what they thought. I go back to what Kevin O'Connell said before the Tampa Bay game when he said, we're looking to confirm a lot of things we think about this team. Well, a lot of things they thought were clearly wrong. They thought the interior O-line could stay healthy. They thought they could take the next step developmentally.

They thought Alexander Madison could lead a more efficient and potent running game. All those things have been wrong so far. And maybe part of that's opponent driven, maybe game plan driven, them being out schemed and outmatched in some of these instances. But these issues are so great that I don't think they're going to go away if they just kept the same personnel in pieces. So we spent all the offseason talking about did the team do enough did they do enough and clearly they found out two weeks in they did not uh when it comes to changing this running game and the surprising part to me is that it wasn't just the offensive line which we all knew you could see they couldn't block they go and take make a move for acres a really low risk move but one that says hey you know what

we do need another, um, runner, some fresh legs in there that are different than Alexander Madison's. Yeah. What do you guys make of that? Because I, I mean, I think we all know at least with Dalton Reisner that he's going to play and we kind of have an assumption of where he's going to play and we'll see if that's how it works out. But with cam acres, I mean, I think part of it has to be that Ty Chandler ran four times for zero yards. And I was looking this up just out of curiosity and found that even Emmitt Smith's backup running back averaged four carries per game. So, I mean, in 1997, you can't have a backup running back who carries the ball four times in two games and gets no yards. So that is part of it.

And can't pass block effectively or at least they seem to think so and isn't really a threat in the receiving game so they at very least needed a backup but I also don't think you can be impressed really at all with what you've seen from Madison and I wonder what you guys think of whether it's they just played two great run stuffing teams with a lot of backup offensive linemen or if already there should be a little bit of concern of maybe he wasn't what they thought he was going to be and it's only two weeks in i mean we know these things can change quickly but like assign percentages to those things yeah it's it's a weird kind of overall situation with the vikings run game because they have played two good fronts

they did get down by 20 points against the e, which means you're kind of going to abandon it. But they've thrown the ball 78% of the time, which is by far the most in the league. They've just abandoned the run. And they did this last year. They were like the third highest pass percentage in the league just because they couldn't run the ball efficiently. So Kevin O'Connell says, I'm not going to waste plays

if we're getting two yards a carry. I'm going to throw the ball. I have Justin Jefferson. I have TJ Hawkinson, all these guys. It's hard to know what to make of kind of what we've seen because Alex Madison has not been particularly impressive. He, you know, in the past, he was productive when he filled in for Dalvin Cook when Cook was hurt. But over the last two seasons, his yards per carry had already kind of dropped off from his first two seasons. There also hasn't been a ton of

running room. Like it's not, I don't think there's blatant examples on film of Alex Madison missing these kind of wide open rushing lanes and running the wrong way or things but he's not really able to create something out of nothing the way the great running backs are the way Dalvin Cook was able to do in his prime Adrian Peterson obviously I mean it's I don't I don't know like I don't know that Cam Akers is going to come in and provide a lot more, but I think it's worth a shot because he has familiarity with Kevin O'Connell from his times with the Rams. I think he can be, at the very least, better than Ty Chandler and more experience. He's graded well as a pass blocker in the past. So to me, it makes sense to bring it in. I don't

know what percentage I would assign to Madison or to the scheme or just kind of the circumstances that have limited their ability to run the ball. But I think going out and getting acres for nothing, essentially for a late round pick swap in 2026, it makes sense as just kind of a low cost move that could potentially have a lot of upside. Yeah, the price absolutely makes sense. And what stands out to me is Madison, if we remember his heydays, when he filled in for Cook and had some good games, it was under the wide zone system, right? It was a system where he's got more of a runway to get his speed going and he was a good one-cut runner. What they're asking him to do now, that decision needs to be made a lot quicker and the runway is shorter. And he's not the kind of guy who's going to make a ton of people miss. Wes

Phillips today mentioned Cam Akers has quickness. and I think that's something that they'd lack without Dalvin Cook. It's not just the home run ability. It's for all of Cook's faults, and they didn't always love how he kind of set up runs and didn't stay on the track. It's probably because half the time he's making guys miss and dodging people in the backfield, turning a negative three run into a one or two yarder. Madison's just getting taken down at the line at first contact, and he's not finding a lot of room to get his speed going the style of runner he is. Cam Akers created a lot at Florida State behind a bad offensive line. He created a lot behind a bad offensive line at the end of the Rams season last year. I want to know what the

heck happened with him in LA to get him shipped out of town for nothing, but if they can make it work, this might be a better fit for a bad offensive line there was something that popped out that was weird to me in the data from their first game when i looked at acres who had 22 rushes for 29 yards like i don't know if i've ever seen that before yeah i mean that what that sounds like everyone got hurt and they had to put in the fullback to run and they just like had him fall forward uh also a 12 yard run was mixed in like wait i just i gotta go back and watch this game what the heck happened with this guy uh but they ran 19 gap scheme runs and three zone runs for acres when previously it had been much more leaning toward

the zone uh side so is it a schematic issue that he doesn't like? And I go back to what you're saying about Madison, where he was drafted specifically into that zone system by the guys who ran that and the guys who mastered that in like the Kevin Stefanski, Gary Kubiak. That was their thing. And so that's where he made his bones. And you're right. He was averaging 4.5, 4.6 yards per carry. And then it's gone down significantly under Kevinvin o'connell to 3.7

in the bigger sample size and only 3.3 this year and i i just see on tape a lot of where if you're if you like see the matrix you could anticipate all right this block's not going to work and i need to cut it up this way and that way i don't think he's a guy who sees the matrix i i think he's a guy who it has to be pretty straightforward for and he can just either go straight forward kind of shot out of a cannon or he can do what you're saying which is find the gap when you're running that zone scheme you kind of have time to look for is it go to the outside is it cut up is it cut back there's really those three options I think it's pretty easy for a lot of running backs maybe this is asking too much and I think the last two years have kind of been asking too much where even with Delvin Cook you took him out of his zone where he had been so great because you

run a different scheme like I don't know I'm not saying it's the Herschel Walker thing where they had a had him try to be his own runner and everybody talked about it in the late 80s but like it just doesn't feel like it's a very good fit exactly for Madison and maybe it is a better fit for Akers so I wouldn't be surprised if along the way something changes for Madison not being RB1 anymore I I wouldn't be surprised with kind of any of the extremes here with bringing Cam Akers in if if it doesn't really work out and it turns out there's something weird with him this year i mean the week one was obviously extremely inefficient for him and then they made him inactive in week two they're rolling with kyron williams they felt comfortable trading him if he doesn't

even really make much of an impact here that wouldn't surprise me and that wouldn't hurt that much because he didn't give up very much to get him and he's in a contract year a stephen ridley situation possibly yeah i know i was just calling him the starter but like maybe he's in a contract year. A Stephen Ridley situation, possibly. Yeah. I know, I was just calling him the starter, but maybe he's cut next week. I don't know. But the complete other extreme, if we're talking here in two, three weeks, and he's already the RB1 because he comes in

and is just a better fit in a lot of ways, that wouldn't shock me either. I mean, this is a guy, you look at the last four games he had last season, hit over 100, at least 100 scrimmage yards in all of those games. He averaged like five and a half yards per carry. Finished the year really strongly. He came back really quickly from an Achilles tear in 2021 and showed some good things before that as a rookie,

showed some good things after that last year. So it hasn't really panned out for him as a second round running back in general, but maybe a change of scenery will help. Maybe, I mean, this is an opportunity for him because the Vikings just haven't gotten anything going on the the ground so they're going to give him opportunities because they're just looking for efficiency if he can if he can help provide that he's going to get a chance to play yeah what we know is that whoever produces first is going to get the kind of leash to to take that job if madison somehow produces behind dalton reisner and a switch on that offensive line that might stifle acres but if acres comes in and just takes the the ball and runs with it i could absolutely see um this kind of changing of the guard a little bit when you guys think

this is happening because i think it's happening like yesterday i could see him playing sunday yeah yeah i think for both of them right both him he and riser they're playing this week i i think acres would be more likely to play this week because you can have him in a rotation and give him 10 snaps or 15 snaps even and the familiarity with the system I think that would work with Reisner like I've seen a lot of people saying like oh just put him in a right guard on Sunday it doesn't seem just kind of from hearing from him hearing from Kevin O'Connell like that's really a possibility it could be I don't know but I think it's different than the TJ Hawkinson situation last year just the offensive line there's so much that you kind of have to know with

Wes Phillips was talking about today it's specifically like you could put him out there on first down and tell him which way to go and who he's blocking and things like that but when you get into third down and teams are running these these stunts and games and you have a specific pass protection call and all these things I don't know that he's going to be able to get up to speed quickly enough for Sunday. But with both these guys, they brought him here to give him an opportunity. I don't think we're going to just see these guys sitting on the bench as depth all year. Reisner is a proven starter, over 50 starts at left guard. If he starts as soon as like week four against the Panthers, that wouldn't surprise me at all. This is kind of maybe a last opportunity or like a, you know,

kicking the balls to Alex Madison, to Ed Ingram, just the guys that are potentially being replaced. You have an opportunity here. Ed Ingram, Ezra Cleveland, let's see what you can do this week. And if they continue to struggle, then your job's probably getting taken. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if Reisner was active and didn't play, if he was just an option for them right away, at least off the bench, because they needed a body anyway with Udo going down.

That was the corresponding move to bring him in. They were down to six healthy linemen before bringing him in. So if Derrissaw can come back, that helps, but just having Reisner active is going to give them that eight number that they would like to have on game day. So I was trying to think about maybe a car crash comparison to Dalton Reisner where, let's say, for example, I need something fixed with my fender,

but then I get in a car accident, and then the place calls and says, do you still want your fender fixed? If they don't win this week, that's Dalton Reisner. Your season is already blasted to hell at oh and three and then you're like oh yeah but we got a nice little new offensive guard for week four like well okay I'm sure the Chiefs are shaking in their boots in week five but your season is already so far in the depths and yeah you're saying play him play him this Sunday because you have to win this game

exactly like I don't know how to reverse engineer the fender issue there, but, like, I need the fender to be fixed so it doesn't cause me to crash. Yeah. That's the point. So, like, I need the fix now. I don't need it next week because, look, you know, I think when you look at the NFC North, you can certainly make an argument that you could go 0 in a lot of things

and still be in the NFC North. But the history is very clear on 0 and three oh and two all right i think not all oh and two teams are built the same the odds are way different for this team than arizona okay fine but oh and three i mean that means the rest of the way you got to go like nine and five to have a coin flips chance at making the playoffs i I mean, I, that's really, really hard to do and you can't have them running stunts and twists and just blowing by Ed Ingram and strip sacking Kirk cousins this week. You need to be able to protect him and score probably 35 points and beat the Los Angeles chargers. So I don't know if he doesn't play this week, I'm kind of going to be like, remember when he visited like July 31st? That was the time.

That was when. Yeah, it's a strange situation. And, I mean, obviously I don't think it's a secret that it just came down to kind of the financial stuff. And the Vikings maybe at the time of his visit not being on the same page with his camp and what they wanted. And eventually for both parties, you you know time creates a little more urgency the Vikings are 0-2 the clock started ticking for Reisner if he wanted to find a starting role this year but it would have been so much nicer to have brought him in two months ago and have him kind of up to speed already I think you can still potentially play him this week but

it's it's a risk reward you maybe you get more down-to-down consistency than at Ingram, but it could be like a critical error where he doesn't know what to do, and that leads to a bad play. But then again, there's a lot of critical errors when you play at Ingram in his 20th career game. So it'll be interesting to see what that decision looks like this week. Yeah, especially because Reisner was a free agent for a reason. I mean, this guy wasn't a world beater, wasn't a pro bowler. This was not somebody who was just burning the holes of GM's pockets because they weren't signing him. He waited until week three. And if he still has Austin Schlotman starting to the left

of him, if he's the right guard, how much can you do when you're sometimes not getting the correct protection call from the center, who's the backup? there's just going to be a lot of moving parts that this team is still going to have to deal with even if he plays I just want to know if Dalton Reisner actually has a camp so Will said it is camp and I'm like wait at what level player agent what level player do you not have a camp like does does Najee Thompson have a camp like well you know we're talking about Najee Thompson's camp over there and they're they're discussing their options for his gunning this week. I think a lot of people, it's probably just one person.

But that's still a phrase I think you can use. Well, the other, can I question one more phrase before we move on? Yeah. You said kick Alexander Madison in the balls. Yeah, I didn't know where I was going with that. What's the correct phrase? I think if you kick him there, he's not going to run effectively. I think you want to kick him in the pants.

Kick him in the pants. That's what I was looking for. Yeah. I think you want to kick him in the pants. Kick him in the pants. That's what I was looking for. Dang. I didn't know where I was going with that. The rear end to get him moving. That's what happens when you kick. I would have the opposite effect. Yeah, exactly.

I just wanted to make sure that I didn't let that go. No, that's good. Do you want to talk about the game? Yeah. Well, I'm curious. We're talking about Dalton Reiser, who is more known for his pass protection during his time with the Broncos, but could theoretically help with the running game.

We're talking about Cam Akers, who could theoretically help. Do the Vikings need to have a more efficient run game? Or could they just kind of use it in a similar way that they've been using it, try to be a little better, obviously, and just really commit to throwing the football, which has proven in the statistics to be just a much more efficient way of moving it and scoring. We kind of asked Kevin O'Connell about this this week, and there are things that you obviously want to be able to run the football

because of the way that you can marry the run in the pass and make things look similar and then create explosives off of that in the pass game. But I don't know. How important is it for the Vikings to, with this 0-2 record facing the charges this week like really get the run game going I don't think it's that important when you're completing what was it 16 passes over 10 yards in Philadelphia like they did it's important when you look at the 19 hits on Kirk Cousins over the first two games he that's not sustainable we saw him get hit 80 plus times last year had the broken rib,

everything that he played through. And I think that this offense needs the running game for what you mentioned, the play-action stuff that helps them take pressure off of Kirk when you get the boots going, and you can actually get him out and moving away from defenders, which you just can't do right now because it's too easy to pin those things down when there's no running game to fear. And you can play three down in the middle of the line and stop everything on the interior so

i don't think it's necessary to get the ground game going because the offense needs that it just makes the margin for error that much wider for them if they would have something else to lean on make little caesars the official pizza sponsor of the NFL, part of your game day. Order online during our Pizza Pizza pregame one hour before NFL games and get ready for some football and fun. Choose your favorite Little Caesars pizza or pick the toppings you crave. Either way, you win. And speaking of winning, everyone scores with convenient delivery or our in-store pizza portal pickup so grab some friends and enjoy a few slices during the tastiest hour before kickoff

i like that uh we've all covered the team long enough to like do references from you know whatever year be like oh it was like this. But for us, maybe 16. When did you start, Will? Was it 19 or 18? 19. Okay, okay. So you haven't seen a completely trash running game. But 2016, they couldn't run at all.

I mean, it was Jarek McKinnon and Matt Asiata. I was still watching the games, to be fair. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so you understand. And 18, the same thing where Cook was hurt and John D. Filippo had never drawn a run play so that like you can see the impact over a season the impact an individual game is can you beat the chargers by never running the ball effectively of course you can you can throw for 360 yards and you can have justin jefferson

catch 15 footballs and so forth but and the v the Vikings in 16 and 18 did a lot of that. They had the tie game against the Packers in 18 where Kirk threw for like 429 yards. And I don't remember them running very much in that game. They just had to keep passing and passing. But there's going to be a situation where you're up 14 points in the third quarter and you really just need to put the other team away and you need to get a couple of first downs you need to get a couple of easy first downs because you mentioned the hits on kirk cousins hits interceptions strip sacks

fumble like all those things can happen the other thing is too you're just asking a lot of an offensive line where derisaw is at best banged up at worst not playing bradbury it looks like he's not going to play this week i mean you're just giving a lot of opportunities for khalil mac joey bosa and whoever else they want to send to your quarterback when you can't put a team away when you get ahead so i think that the running game is important from that perspective and also like when when you get three and outs, your defense goes right back out there. And that's the thing about passing all the time, is that it does lead to, I think, a high number of three and outs

if it just doesn't work because it takes completing, sometimes multiple passes to get a first down, things like that. I think the margin for error just becomes a lot thinner when you can't have easy plays. We saw how easy was it for Philadelphia? Just line it up, hand it off. All right, what do you guys want to do? Line it up, hand it off. I mean, do they look stressed? You know what I mean? So there's so much less risk when you can do it. I think even more than the play action game, they need it for those reasons. Well,'s it's even more important for Kirk in an immobile quarterback right because that to create the mobility with your quarterback you need that

running game to set up the play action you need defenders coming up to the line and right now they can just put six in the box and stop them yeah I think I didn't mean to discredit the importance of a running game I was just curious your guys thoughts and like you saw it in that Philly game there are a lot of things that you've seen in both games there are a lot of things that have given the vikings trouble this year that have been issues that i think would be helped if not fully solved by the presence of an efficient run game you've got kurt cousins has lost multiple turnovers on strip sacks like the less you drop back the less you open them up for that he's not mobile enough to spin out of that and create things outside of structure i mean you run the, you control the time of possession. That's what the Eagles

did so well on a couple drives in second quarter. And then again, in the fourth quarter, kind of put the game away. And that's able to keep your defense off the field. And the Vikings run defense, which we'll get into, like, I think a big issue of it was just that they were on the field so much in that second half against the Eagles. And so the more you're able to run the ball effectively, it'll set things up for the pass game. It'll keep some hits off of Kirk Cousins theoretically, and you can control the clock more. And if they are able to get a lead against the Chargers,

maybe hold on to that lead and maybe put a team away for once, which we haven't seen in a very long time. And I just think about San Francisco as like the absolute ideal offense in so many ways and when they have christian mccaffrey and the offensive line that they have and the run blocking they have if you're a defensive coordinator you're like i don't know what what am i supposed to do i got three receivers a great tight end and the vikings have weapons that are equal to that but then there's this other guy who can just beat me for a 40 yard run or just six yards in a row over and over and over again.

What am I supposed to do? So it does make it. And some week, some week, I promise you a team will stop Justin Jefferson. Like he's not going to get 150 yards every week. We saw it last season, right?

That at times over a 17 game season, there will be four or five games where he doesn't go for a hundred yards and doesn't completely take over the game. So what is your counterpunch? What is your answer? It's why you signed Josh Oliver, not to just like run the boots. I mean, you signed him to help and he's been fine. But, you know, I think you need to have an answer when teams are doing certain things that are taking away some parts of your passing game. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think this is going to be a really good test of a week

for the Vikings offense and what Kevin O'Connell wants it to be and how much he really puts an emphasis on the run game because last season the Chargers gave up more yards per carry than any other team in the NFL, 5.4. If you can't run the ball against them, I don't think there's many major differences to their front that that's going to change a ton. If you can't run the ball against that team, I don't think there's many major differences to their front that that's going to change a ton. If you can't run the ball against that team, I don't know.

But at the same time, they've got lit up through the air this year. I mean, they gave up like 500 yards passing to Tua and Tyreek and the Dolphins in week one. It's really not a good defense. So I'm just curious to see which way Kevin O'Connell attacks this. Does he come out and just say, you know what, we're going to lean into the matchups that we think we have in the secondary and Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison and all these things or is he going to really make a concerted effort to run the ball it'll probably be somewhere in the middle but if you can't move the ball

effectively especially on the ground against this team I mean I just don't see how the offense is ever going to become particularly balanced yeah I think you got to find a way to come out and establish the run, really. What they've been trying to do all off season leading into this year, this is your opportunity to do it because you're not facing really great interior defenders. Yes, they added Eric Kendricks, but we know he's on the twilight of his career right now. And I don't think that the Chargers, outside of those edge guys, have many true difference makers in that front. And if you can find a way to open up the middle a little bit behind Schlotman, if it's Reisner, Ingram, whoever's in there, that is going to be a way to build some confidence in this

running game. Even if it's just getting a little bit of cam acres in there and mostly Madison, they got to find a way to try to generate some forward momentum with this offense and get them feeling like they can have any balance. But I also feel like if I was an offensive lineman, which I can't relate, uh, cause I have zero toughness and I'm not anywhere near as big and short arms, surprisingly short arms for my height. Uh, but if I was, you know, what I'd really like to do is just push somebody down the

field. Like, Oh, would you like Joey Bosa coming at you 48 times? Or would you just like to run into him i i you know it just i think it when you have an offensive line that's reeling it doesn't have its center and it left tackle is banged up and you're trying to add somebody new the easiest thing to do is to just run the ball effectively so there's like all these ancillary things outside of like i believe in o'connell's overall philosophy lean into kirk lean into jefferson lean into that passing game i think it's so much smarter than what they were doing before and i and that's bared fruit i think for the last two years but i also think when you're

that miserable at running the ball it's just a huge problem for your offense but here's a question for you guys do you believe in the idea of the kitchen sink game. You know, you know about the trap game, but the kitchen sink game is the concept that when a coach's back is up against the wall and my God, Brandon Staley's back is against the wall that he will recoil and go deep into his dark dungeon of football and pull out everything that he's ever seen on film 1948 defensive concepts analyzing them bringing them out finding anything you could possibly do to mess with the minnesota vikings and stop them like do you believe that that there are certain games where coaches know if i don't win i'm gonna get fired and they pull out all the stops to try to win i i think so yeah that's that's human

nature right there this this guy is probably what number one in the hot seat rankings right now it's just the way they've started the way they blew that lead against the jaguars last year in the wild card round like it's this is going to be a fascinating schematic matchup because kevin o'connell and brandon staley know each other extremely well they're kevin o'connell was talking this week like they're good friends. They sheltered together during COVID. They're close, and they know from a football standpoint what the other one likes. Obviously, things have changed a little bit over the past two years since they've worked together, but I don't know.

The philosophies of how they want to attack, the different schemes, the counterpunches once the game unfolds, it's going to be really interesting to watch. I think, yeah, you could see absolutely anything from Brandon Staley because he knows that they've been really bad through two weeks defensively. But it's a similar story with that team to what we've talked about with the Vikings. Like they're 0-2. They have a minus five point differential. They could be 2-0 if certain third down stops had gone a different way or something. It's still a really talented team they've really struggled defensively so yeah they could throw anything out there and I wouldn't be particularly surprised yeah Wes Phillips said today that asked about Brandon Staley and said today that one of the challenges with them is that they can morph into kind of anything to try and

take away very specifically one thing about your offense I imagine that's going to be Justin Jefferson this time around we saw one of the proverbial kitchen sink games from them last year when they faced the Dolphins I think it was a prime time game late in the year when they changed from their soft zone into a really tight man-to-man coverage that kind of stifled middle of the field stuff for Tua in that Dolphins offense and it really caught everybody by surprise who watched Brandon Staley's defenses over the years because that's not what they did I do wonder if he's going to have some kind of wholesale changes this time around because it has not worked the first two weeks for them defensively for the Chargers. They made Ryan Tannehill look serviceable last week

in that loss to the Titans in overtime. So I think they need to try anything and everything, and it's going to be tough back at a U.S. Bank Stadium crowd that for at least one half against Tampaa bay gave baker mayfield a pretty rough time do you guys have a historical comparison for this game i'll tell you mine which is uh 2021 this is not that historical uh but just recent years with the vikings yeah they played the seattle seahawks at home and we talked about how the seahawks were a good team and i think that i had stupidly picked the seahawks for the Super Bowl that year.

And then it fell apart. Wilson got hurt. But even before that, they played kind of a silly defense against the Vikings. Jefferson ripped them up. They had a great day. They won the game. And we all declared, the season is saved. Everything is fixed.

They're back. They just beat a great Seahawks team that won six games they bet that right but that's how we felt at the time after they had had those close losses what was the discussion after losing at cincy losing at arizona it was well you know we're this close we've only lost by a couple points it was just greg joseph didn't know what he was doing or right sounds kind of similar to we're just fumbling a lot and i think this is the type of team where you get this big kind of win and you know they're a flawed enough team i think that they struggle on defense especially against the pass and then we kind of declare that everything is fixed and the season's back on doesn't mean it does but i could see it all playing out in a

similar fashion as that yeah it's a good. Week three home game after two close losses. This game, we're not going to maybe learn everything that we need to know about this team for the rest of the season, but it just is such an important game already. I know that other leaders in the NFC North are only one and one, but you can't lose this game. Even if you then go in week four and it's Bryce Young or it's Andy Dalton or whoever in Carolina you win that game you're looking at Kansas City and San Francisco two of the next three and it's just it the stakes are so high for both these teams here that it really it feels like a playoff game almost you you can't lose this and then find some way forward to the postseason just doesn't happen I think it was like one of the last 100 teams to start 0-3 have made

it to the playoffs. That's what's fascinating to me about this game and all the different kind of components and the schematics. It's just going to come down to probably one play, and that's going to determine how I feel about the Vikings for the next few weeks. Yeah, you have to separate yourself from those middling teams unless you're just going to be one of them this year, which it might seem that way.

Because, yeah, the most rosy outlook is two and five if you lose this game right to beat the Bears and presumably and in Charlotte beat the Panthers because you're a tier below or two tiers below the Chiefs and the Niners at this point so I think it's a very critical game from that standpoint because your division is also very mid um and just find a way to try and stack these winnable games because they already dropped one in tampa bay you can't you'll afford to drop two okay so they lose this game will you guys look at it as holy cow what a massive waste of justin jefferson's life and what a massive waste of an unbelievable passing attack with all these talented players. And even, I mean, Kirk Cousins, I think, has played really well through these first two weeks.

And you just let it slip away. And you should be really upset about that. Or would you look at it as this is who we thought they might be. And we knew if they lost to Tampa, this could happen. And we knew that when they revamped the whole roster, this could happen. And this is kind of the world that they wanted to live in or they chose to live in

by not spending tons of money in free agency, by not bringing in Dalton Reisner six weeks ago. But all those things, they elected this possibility as a potential outcome. So, okay, well, that's kind of where this season is going like what what will be your reaction if they do not pull this off I think it's a little bit of both I think you're right that you open yourself up for this possibility when you go the competitive rebuild route because your margin of error gets really slim and I there's absolutely a world where it's the third straight week of the same thing and they

lose a close game and they had a few turnovers and we're still talking about how Justin Jefferson had 180 yards and you know this passing game they're right there if they can just take care of the football but at that point it's almost too late and then you have to go back to all right I sure maybe you've gotten a little unlucky and it's been the total inverse of last year but there were things that you could have done to prevent some of these things you could have signed Reisner you could have poured more into the interior offensive line in any sort of fashion and and into the running game and into the defense and like not moved on for maybe as many guys it doesn't mean I'm going to disagree with that general approach because I think they're building for 2024 and beyond and

trying to figure this thing out long term uh but yeah you you just open yourself up for the possibility of ending up on the wrong side of what happened last year when you try to competitive rebuild and you know that you're not going to be able to really just overpower teams yeah if they drop this game it kind of makes some of these moves um on the competitive side of their rebuild for not right finding a way to keep daniel hunter bringing in reisner for a pro-rated four million acres is the only deal that's kind of you can write it off no matter what happens it's fine well you're leaving out the biggest one which is restructuring kirk yeah and then kicking the can down the road with kirk for one more year to keep him this year

as opposed to trying to move on this year and work with him and his no trade clause and all that so i just think in general that this team needs to try and seize on its moves. It's trying to live in both worlds. It's trying to be that. And if you go, Oh, and three, you're basically saying at this point that this team is not capable, even with these band-aids of becoming a competitive team in 2023. And we kind of knew that, right? We talked all off season about how young this defense was going to be, how much their depth is in question. And now they're trying to really they keep making these moves, like I said, from Hunter to to Akers to Reisner now of really trying to patch these things together for the short term. And that's four games like this. It's to win right away.

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Yeah, it's funny because it's like, well, we're going to give all the young players a chance. And then you see some of them and go, okay, but maybe not. Like, maybe we'll try that again later. We'll see how that goes. I struggle with this question because there is a part of me that says, well, look, you know, if they should slide down the standings and slide up the draft board, what a shame it would be for their long term to get a higher draft pick. And of course, you know, fans are talking about that all the time, like, well, if they're not going to win the Super Bowl, then I'd rather have them just lose. But there's also a part that says when you lay out the plan and then you start 0-3, and the plan was to get back to the playoffs.

The plan is to live in both worlds. And if you just are bad and lose all your games, like, I don't know, it looks like you don't know what you're doing. And if you brought back Kirk but you were so bad you were going to lose all your games, then it doesn't look like you know what you're doing. Because, man, if Kirk was on the Falcons they'd be crushing it like there had to be other teams that would have been interested in Kirk Cousins had he been on the market especially when we're talking about last year where I think his stock went up in the league after last year and instead or you could have just let it play out and said well you know

we're just gonna not do anything with his contract and then it'll be fine. But next year you take this giant dead cap hit if he leaves and for what, for what was that for? Because you couldn't see coming that, I don't know, Patrick Jones would get run over in the running game or that Marcus Davenport would come down with an injury or what, like everything that's happened so far has been totally foreseeable that they couldn't run the ball that they would get steamrolled by Philadelphia's run game yeah I know fumbles and that's been a main reason I know but like all the shortcomings that have been on tape so far were the shortcomings we knew would be there and now they're scrambling to patch them up like I don't know like I think that there has to be some

criticism rather than just saying well you know we like i think that there has to be some criticism rather than just saying well you know we didn't think you were going to win that much anyway like i don't know but if you have a 35 year old quarterback who's throwing for 350 yards i think you should win yeah absolutely i think if they lose this game there will be some much deserved criticism and they're they already can be at oh and two for the kind of the way that they approach this whole thing if they lose this game we're going to start to have those conversations about, do you maybe pivot off of your course? And I don't know exactly how you do that.

I don't think, I mean, the big rumor for, like, you know, morning shows on ESPN is trade Kirk Cousins to the Jets. I don't think that's even remotely a possibility right now because the Vikings are not giving up on this season, and their passing game has been so good. But Jefferson for nine firsts. Well, I don't know about that. But like the Kirk to the Jets thing, even though he has a no trade clause, that's not insane to say if they're like one in six and you're talking about, now the season is really over. Kirk's going to be a free agent after this year. You go to him and

you say, are you interested in maybe waving your no-trade clause and going to this team that is absolutely stacked at everywhere except quarterback? I don't know how Kirk would feel about that possibility. But I think for now, we don't need to necessarily go down that route yet. If they win this week, they could be one and two. I don't know if you had any other thoughts on that. I was going to say, maybe we should talk about the defense briefly in this game and Brian Flores and just the fact that they've blitzed like 50% of the time

and then they've also dropped eight and done like the Tampa 2 stuff a bunch. I don't know how – you can choose which one you want to go to, but I'm curious to see how they defend Justin Herbert in this game. I was going to do both because I was just going to say that one guy whose trade stock should be going up is Daniil Hunter. Yeah. I mean, that is one guy that if stock should be going up is Daniil Hunter. Yeah. I mean, that is one guy that if you find yourself at two and five or whatever near the trade deadline,

that might be someone you might get a call or two about. And maybe someone of you think we can't afford to resign him or just that those negotiations aren't going to pan out, get something for him in the short run. That's how you can pivot is become more of the sellers, more of the rebuild, as opposed to now they are leaning into the competitive side, which after an 0-2 start, the Akers thing surprised me. Not because it wasn't super affordable and because they could bring him in. It's just a move that connotes that we're willing to take on a rental for this year, as opposed to a guy in Madison who we've got locked up for the next two years and just see if we can get this ground game going for now but defensively hunter has been one of the best revelations or you know guys who's re-emerged for them certainly and allowed them to get some pass rush with just four but they've continued to bring more than that with brian flores and i think it'll be really interesting to see how that matches up with the justin herbert offense and

herbert is a guy who we saw mike zimmer out fox a lot in their matchups together they were able to kind of out scheme him. And I wouldn't be shocked if Flores can do more of the same. And I know Kellen Moore has brought a different kind of offense to them. They're running the ball seemingly a little bit more, but Eckler might not play and you might be able to kind of pin Herbert down the way they have before. You know, with when Aaron Rogers would play against the Vikings,

I would always go into the game thinking that's going to be pretty tough. I mean, this, this man can do things that no one else can do in the entire world. play against the Vikings, I would always go into the game thinking, that's going to be pretty tough. I mean, this man can do things that no one else can do in the entire world. And when Drew Brees would play the Vikings, and I know he had some notable losses against the Vikings and some great wins too, but I thought no matter how much you hit him, no matter what you do defensively, like this guy can do anything. He can figure out a way. The Minneapolis Miracle, actually, if they don't get the Minneapolis Miracle miracle is one of the great second half performances by a quarterback that you'd ever see when it was just an unbelievable performance by Drew Brees. I don't put Justin Herbert in that category. I put him in much more of a category of, he certainly has the arm talent to beat you.

He's got a good enough receivers to beat you, but i don't think it's going to feel like there's nothing you can do there is a hopelessness of playing aaron rogers when he's at his best a true like i don't know man what was i supposed to do there he just juked some dude and then threw a back shoulder fade 48 yards down the field what am i supposed to do to stop that that that is not the feeling against herbert and you know you know who i never felt that against either was russell wilson when he would face the vikings and even though he was good in some games and not good in others i never thought like there's no way this guy is just going to do anything and everything i think there are answers and that's it that's those are that's the margin that's the difference between like the great great and the you know pretty darn good but i think that there are answers for herbert

and floris has to find them but i don't think it's easy to find them if you're giving up six yards to carry and i don't know how you stop this like kairos tonga has not been jerry ball or pat williams or linval joseph i mean he's he he hasn't even been Shamar Stephan at this moment so far. And you're asking Harrison Phillips to play a role that usually belongs to a man about 40 pounds heavier. So that's really, really tough. I mean, the Eagles just double teamed the heck out of everybody and pushed everyone out of the club and walked right through. I mean, if you're going to let any offensive line do that, they're probably going to be able to do it. The good news for the Vikings this week is that the Chargers are not the Eagles

in some respects. It's a different kind of offense. If Eckler doesn't play, you're talking about Josh Kelly as their running back. And I mean, the running back doesn't particularly matter too much as we saw with DeAndre Swift, but they don't have quite the same dominance on the offensive line. I think this is a tough matchup in some regard. I mean, the Chargers are fourth in the league in yards per game right now. Their passing game has been lighting it up. Keenan Allen, Mike Williams is a really good wide receiver duo for Herbert. But like you said, Herbert, he has the talent, the arm talent to make every throw. He's just not quite on that level of putting it all together with the decision making and the processing and everything. And

he has games where he looks like he's at that level and then there's other games where he'll still make some mistakes so this is a fun matchup for brian flores who going back to his time as a dolphins head coach played against herbert once in 2020 i just looked this up and they and they won that game and herbert had like 182 passing yards two touchdowns and a pick a couple sacks like he really was able to limit him that's that's a younger Justin Herbert that's maybe a rookie Justin Herbert but the ideas and the concepts of how you maybe want to attack this quarterback are going to be similar so it's interesting for Brian Flores who have had that experience I'm curious to see just I assume the blitz rate is still going to be extremely high how much does he also come into some of the the drop stuff and try

to just confuse the passing lanes and and try to get some turnovers that way yeah i saw an interesting stat i think it was on the chargers broadcast whoever broadcast their last game that herbert's had the most blown fourth quarter leads of any quarterback in terms of games he started since he entered the league and that good it makes a lot of sense it's also kind of an interesting stat of like the quarterback blowing the lead well having in terms of yeah how many games has he started entered the the game or entered the fourth quarter with the lead and then lost that game so just in terms of guys having leads going into fourth quarters and their teams not holding on to it for whatever reason and the quarterback play as we can see or any kind of reliable ground

game which the chargers have not had uh since he's been there outside of just dumping it off to eckler um he's not a guy who closes games he's not a guy who usually puts it away for you he's been there outside of just dumping it off to Eckler. He's not a guy who closes games. He's not a guy who usually puts it away for you. The same criticism comes upon Kirk Cousins when we talk about putting that drive together that really puts a team out of reach. And we see that with the Chargers. When it comes to crunch time, they charge her. It's a verb now. So I just think that that team doesn't scare you too much in terms of when push comes to shove, is this an opponent that you're going to say, oh, my gosh, how do we stop them like you're talking about with Rodgers?

Herbert generally makes that mistake in a key moment that could make it anybody's game. I like the verb thing because I think Viking is also – that's a verb. I think Falcon is another one you talk about. Maybe Lion. Lionzing, yeah. Lionzing. Those are some of the top –

Brownzing. Yeah, Brownzing. Those are some of the top verb teams. of the top uh yeah brownsing those some of the top verb teams in the league don't like brownsing as much um but you know actually that's an it that is when you first said it i was like wait justin herbert doesn't play defense so did he blow those games or what but you know it's actually a really good point about putting teams away and i think that's probably the difference like for me it's kind of been a feel thing about justin herbert where there is no it's over this guy wins like with mahomes it's just what's the score they're down by you know 26 points he'll probably find a way or you know oh look your team

thought they came back in the game and there was 13 seconds left no you didn't uh so there's not that element to justin herbert and i also think also think that there is a timidness to his game that he hasn't worked out where it's like he will just check it down. His average depth of target is shockingly low when you consider what kind of a cannon he has. And it stayed that way. Everyone thought, oh, well, if you change the coach, like, no, I don't think that they designed all the things to go underneath.

It's a defensive defensive minded head coach. That's been the consistent thing. I know Staley gets all the credit for being aggressive, the two point conversions and all that fourth down decisions. But it's still a defensive head coach. Brandon Staley also, like, just hasn't done that recently. That's true. I was seeing tweets about this. Like, he kind of came in and everyone was like, oh, look at this guy.

He's going front and forth. And now he just doesn't do it anymore. And, like, I at this guy. He's going for it. And I just doesn't do it anymore. And like, I think maybe there's still some perception that he does. He just doesn't like he's he's really become more conservative. And I think it's I think it's hurt him on a lot of ways. Oh, I agree. Yeah. I think when you do that and if it fails a couple of times and then you start to hear the noise and then you start to have other analytics.

Well, but even other coaches being like, why did you go for that? Or or the owners calling you and saying, why'd you go for that or or or the owners calling you and saying why did you go for that because we missed it and you're not supposed to miss it uh so i think it's always more complicated than just like he forgot um so but i i would love to know uh you know i'm sure he'd never say this at a podium but i'd love to know what happened there because he had a lot of things that he was doing right well maybe this is the kitchen sink and he does uh could be he does go for it on fourth down and two-point conversions and all kind of things in this game how do we think it plays out yeah it's i have no idea and and vegas doesn't

either i mean it's a pick them at last time i looked i'm excited to just watch it and see what happens because it's going to be chaos it's probably going to come down to the last play the chargers are going to do something weird the vikings are going to do something weird um it's just these two teams always seem to just play weird games um and so maybe the energies of those matching will cancel out and it'll be a very normal game but i don't think so i i don't know i i just i've never seen a normal game with the bike. That's true. We haven't had a normal game since 2019. I see them on TV, but not here. I have a feeling that there's just some weird voodoo about the 2023 Vikings. I don't feel great.

I know we just talked a lot of trash about Justin Herbert, but I think he's still a very talented quarterback when he has time and when he plays with some aggressiveness. I don't know. I have the Chargers winning this game in some weird fashion. I think this is a get-right game for the Vikings. I think that the pendulum swings back a little bit. I think there's going to be a couple unlucky turnovers from the Chargers' standpoint

where the Vikings can get back into the positive ratio as far as that goes for at least one game. I think they're going to be able to run the ball at least a little bit. I think you're going to see a fired up O-line, Madison, all these guys who want to prove something at home. This just sets up to me to be like a charger-ing type of game where I think LA is going to cough it up, give up a big early lead, and the Vikings find a way.

I'm sure they'll make it interesting, but find a way to hang on and win this game. Okay, I figured it out. I know what's going to happen. Brandon Powell is going to lay down in the end zone. Vikings are down by four. He's laying down in the end zone. They kick off. Ty Chandler catches it.

He runs it out. He's blending in with the purple. He stands up. They do an end around. Goes for a game-winning touchdown. Vikings walk off. Matt Daniels. Yes, Matt Daniels.

They carry Matt Daniels off. We get down there and walk off Matt Daniels yes Matt Daniels they carry Matt Daniels off we get down there and help carry Matt Daniels off because he's the best with the media but yeah that's the only way this is something I mean the fact that a actual missed field goal went for a touchdown and Adrian Peterson broke the rushing record in the same

game that's true it's like when this when these two teams get together I will pick the Vikings for this i think that they are desperate as well i think they're at home which matters in this situation to me and i just think that their coach is better than the other team's coach and and for teams that are super equal across the board i'm gonna look for what's the what's the edge the edge there i think is kevin o'conConnell's better at his job than Brandon Staley is at his. Those are all very valid reasons to pick the Vikings. I just, I don't know.

I could totally see it going either way. I'm going with the Chargers. There's a possibility that the Vikings are up by five late and Cam Akers fumbles and they return it for a touchdown. Like, just something weird. I just, to me, it's Justin Herbert. It's just, I know Kirk Cousins has played really well. It's just a part of me that maybe trusts Justin Herbert a little bit more.

And so, I don't know. We'll see. Anything could happen in this game, and I would not be shocked. Cam Akers fumbles out of bounds in the end zone again, and it happens two straight weeks, which has never happened before. There will be some. My favorite thing about Minnesota sports. Dalton Reisner knocks the ball out of kirk's hands instead of eddingham my favorite thing

about minnesota sports is always the factoids it's the well this has never happened before in history only one other team has ever blown a lead like that like it's a nightly thing in the fall when you get the basketball and hockey and football going it's and the playoffs for the twins well this team hasn't won since 2004 which is darn near impossible statistically but they're playing in the playoffs again i just got my uh my tickets to game two of the twins playoff series so i'm excited to watch the streak hit 20 the thing is it's not against the yankees which is weird yeah but they've lost to the houston and the a's and i mean the streak is mostly the Yankees, but I don't know. I do not have any confidence.

This is not a Twins podcast. Tough times. Anyway, well, we'll see what happens. We will. There is a lot to look for on Sunday. So we'll do it again next week. Normal weeks for a little while here. Will Raggett, Sports Illustrated, Andrew Kramer, Star Tribune.

And we will talk to you all again very soon.