Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings a good 3-1 team? Will Danielle Hunter get going? Was Kevin O'Connell the right hire? (A Fans Only Podcast)

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

Matthew Coller answers Vikings fans questions, from whether the Vikings are a good team or just lucky so far to Danielle Hunter's lack of production, to whether they should be happy so far with Kevin O'Connell and much more... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Purple Insider presented by Liquid Death. Go to liquiddeath.com slash insider and learn about the Tallboy can, which actually has water. Find out where you can get it near you at liquiddeath.com slash insider. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and this is a fans-only podcast. I understand I've been a little bit negligent when it comes to getting to all of your questions. So hoping to catch up this week. Also, exciting times. ESPN's Courtney Cronin will return this week to talk about the Chicago Bears and all the

wonderful things that are happening in Chicago with that team. And, uh, so, you know, we'll have our usual lineup. We'll raggets we'll mix in as well to preview the game and we will go forth. But I feel like I got a little bit behind when it came to answering your questions, feel free to send them to purple insider.com or to me on Twitter at Matthew collar, go ahead, send me a DM or an at mention and I'll throw it all in the file. I will get to as many as I possibly can. Um, but if I don't get to yours right away, uh, I'll just know that it's there and that I'm trying my best to do as many as I can and even mix them in at the end of episodes and so forth. So I make sure

I'm getting to everyone's questions, but I love the fact that you guys are sending them. And I did take a little peek at some that I have for tonight's episode or today's episode, this morning's episode, whenever you're listening. And there's some really great questions in there. So we'll get started. But first, of course, not before a Diet Dr. Pepper, although the show is presented by Liquid Death, which is water, by the way, if you haven't noticed from the show.

So let me take a sip here and then we will begin. All right, let's dive into our fans only questions. First one comes from at MNJoker0015 on Twitter. Are the Vikings a bad team that's just beating bad teams slash getting lucky, or are they a decent team that is finding ways to win games while they're still figuring things out? So I think that they are closer to a decent team than they are a bad team. And this is based on, I'll pull this up right now. Their expected win loss, which I always try to keep a very close eye on throughout the season is right now 2.2 and 1.8, which means they are a three in one team that based on their point differential should be a

two and two team. Well, that's not that different. And 2.2 sort of leans toward three and one, uh, that normally what they would expect with this, um, this formula that just takes your, uh, you know, points for points allowed normally what they would expect with that formula is that you would be two and two, but you would get one break here and maybe not get another break there in a small sample of games. And they got both breaks. They got a double doink and they got a very strange decision by Dan Campbell and so forth. When you look at where they rank in the league and a lot of different things, and I'm putting together an article with a ton of different stats, but they're 15th and points four and 12th and points against that screams middle of the pack.

Now, when you look a little closer, there are some things that are concerning, but there's also the idea that they could improve. So I kind of swing back and forth. Like for example, they have been one of the least penalized teams and their opponents have been one of the most penalized of all opponents. Well, that's kind of luck right there, right? That's some good luck. They are not sustaining drives. They're one of the worst in the NFL in terms of plays per drive and time of possession per drive. That's not great. But there's other things that suggest that regression in a good way could be coming. One of those is that Kirk Cousins PFF grade is higher than his QBR. So let me explain that like QBR is efficiency. It's results based and he just has not been that efficient of a quarterback so far, 6.6 yards per pass attempt. They have not gotten the downfield

passing game going on very much at all. His quarterback rating is way lower than his career, but there's a lot of numbers that are lower than Cousins' career. And the PFF grade suggests that he's played more of mid-pack football as opposed to back of the pack efficiency. I think that those two things can come together a little closer as we go forward. And I do buy into the fact that they are learning a very, very new offense. And I think where you see the indecision is that Cousins has basically cut in half the percentage in which he throws down the field past 20 yards.

So two years ago or three years ago, 2019, he was throwing downfield on almost 14% of his throws. And that number is about 7% right now. I expect that to increase. If it doesn't, then it could be a problem. But I do expect that to increase. Now, when it comes to the concept of, well, they've banded together and that's how they've won these close games. And last year they wouldn't have won that and stuff. I really don't buy into that.

For one, last year they did have clutch performances. It wasn't like they went the whole season and just melted down in every late game. I thought the problem really was that when they got leads, they didn't take care of business. Does that sound familiar against the Saints? That they were up, what, 16-7 and didn't take care of business. Does that sound familiar against the saints that they were up what 16 to seven and didn't take care of business. But you can't tell me that the game against Arizona in week two was a lack of resilience. I mean, Kirk cousins led a game winning drive in that game and they missed the field goal. Uh, this year field goal kickers against the Vikings are three for

seven, by the way, which, you know, a good break for them to your point. They against Detroit, they led a game winning drive against Carolina, game winning drive. They were ahead against Dallas and a ball bounced off of Bashad Breeland into a receiver's hands. I mean, I don't know that you can really tie these things together. They closed out the chargers. They closed out the Packers at home with a game winning drive. Like there were a lot of games last year where they did take care of business. What they had last year though, was some tough opponents that they lost to San Francisco was a good team. Um, Los Angeles was a good team. They needed those wins and they didn't get them. And they ended up being one score games, but Los Angeles handily beat them. San Francisco handily beat them as well. Um, so I think that there's some misleading numbers out there that, you know, I think people are trying to use to spin a little bit into a narrative of, Hey, it's the vibes or, Hey, it's the, you know, they believe in each other more like other more like no I mean will Lutz is like this close from making that field goal and he didn't you don't have to give it back

It's just when we're trying to figure out like how good are you? Actually, I think they're much more of a mid-pack team in the NFL but with some progression in certain areas you expect KJ Osborne to get the ball more. You expect more out of Irv Smith. You expect more really out of Adam Thielen, though I think he is kind of possession receiver. You expect a little more out of the running game if Delvin Cook can get healthier along the way. And if those things happen, I don't think the defense is going to change a ton, but they also

face some bad quarterbacks. Justin Fields might be the worst quarterback in the league this year. Really not impressed with what I've seen from Kyler Murray this year. You've got dinged up quarterbacks along the way. You do play some good ones, Dak Prescott and Josh Allen, but on the whole, the quarterback schedule we've been talking about since the day the schedule came out is going to be helpful for the Vikings defense. And I think that if they finished with a point differential, that was a little bit, a little bit around the same area and because they've gotten off to this good start, they could end up in the middle of the playoff race. I don't see them at the very top, but in the middle, I think that's a reasonable expectation. I don't think we should say, oh, they're awful.

I think in comparison to the Kansas City Chiefs, they're really nowhere close, or the Buffalo Bills. I don't think that they're anywhere close to those teams that I would put at the top of the Super Bowl teams, or even Philadelphia, as we saw in Philly. But I would not call them a bad team that's just gotten completely lucky, because everything to me points to being a mid-pack team, which in the NFC makes you okay. And in the mix, there are many teams that are just in the mix and call the Minnesota Vikings in the mix.

And there's just a lot of things to still be decided. And that's why, you know, I will get messages sometimes after a three-in-one start of people who want to know like, well, why are you questioning this or that? Because they're three-in-one and that's really good. And you're right. However, a little trip through memory lane of the Minnesota Vikings and their history has seen them fall apart from five and oh, or six and oh starts that for different reasons, uh, happened. But sometimes when a team starts out hot, it's on a house of cards. And I don't think that that's this, that might be the New York giants.

I don't think that's this. I don't think this is just ready to collapse. Um, but I think that the weaknesses are going to be hard to fix. They have to just really hope for progress in the passing game and health on defense to sustain what they're doing and then ride the schedule to the end and make the playoffs and then look around at the playoffs and hope that none of these other teams get way better. I mean, there are teams in the NFC that could get way better as the season goes along. And that's why when you see

stats from people on social media that are like, this website has the Vikings as the easiest schedule. Like that is true in my opinion as well, that their schedule is not daunting, but how the NFC actually ends up looking at the end of the day that I don't think we can tell because so much changes throughout a season. You might think a team is brutal at the beginning of the year. And then the middle of the season, they take off last year. At this time, you would have thought Philly was a joke by the end of the season. There's sort of the team of the future, right? So, you know, a lot of changes, there's a long way to go, but at this moment, I would not say that they're a brutal team. That's just

getting lucky. I wouldn't say that. Great question though. Great question. It's actually my favorite topic. And this is where I, I get disappointed when people say, Oh, you're being too harsh on them. It's like, no, I'm really trying to talk through it and try to figure out. Cause that's the most fun NFL question, right? Uh, is can we figure out, is this team actually legit or not? Is this team good? What could, what could make them good? What could have them drop back? Like that's the question we answer all the time on the show. And it's my favorite question to answer really in sports is like, who's the best, right? Or, or how good is your team or what would it take for them

to win? Um, so I, so i love that question uh next question here thomas via email says do you think daniel hunter is less effective in the new system he seemed to get hammered by the saints when they ran around his end that said i think he was double teamed on passing downs he may have drawn more double teams in that game because zadarius smith did not take a lot of snaps uh zadarius i think had 24 snaps and dj wanham 42 i believe and if dj wanham's on the other side then yeah daniel hunter is getting all of the attention but the numbers are a little concerning and and then i also think that these things happen in bunches like sacks just go this way sometimes. And in the new system though, there seems to be

a lot of emphasis on, we're not going to blitz. We're not going to be that aggressive. We're going to let those four guys up front, create the pressure and then, you know, give everybody help on the backend. That is the philosophy. And that requires guys to just beat their man. And so far, this might be part of it with Daniel Hunter. He's had to go up against some very good right tackles. Ryan Ramchick and Penny Sewell are as good as it gets for right tackles in the NFL. And Lane Johnson is the gold standard. So that is, and let's see in the first week and the first week, he may have had a decent matchup. I'm trying to remember who the Packers played at right tackle. But aside from that first matchup, which I thought that he was good in, he has played the best of the

best over these last couple of weeks. Not going to see that this week. That's for sure against Chicago and a quarterback that hangs onto the ball forever. This could be like a four sack day for Daniil Hunter, but that's how sacks work. The lack of pressures is a little concerning because you do allow teams to double team or to add chips and things like that when you're not sending extra rushers. There's always a give and take.

I would be a little bit, I think, cautious to like dig heels in and say, this doesn't work for Daniel Hunter. But I also don't know that it's ever going to work as well as it once did. I mean, Daniel Hunter and Everson Griffin were some kind of combination and Mike Zimmer essentially raised those guys and everybody on that defense. And that's the thing about Zimmer. When he had his defense, he knew how to use every one of those guys to their maximum. And he knew how to create mismatches with blitzes and things like that, that would get someone like Daniil Hunter sacks. There were a number of times where Daniil Hunter got lined up on a tackle or a tight end,

as opposed to a tackle and just blew past the guy and got a sack. I think that happened in week one against Cincinnati last year that he was lined up with a tight end. It's like, boom sack. Um, we haven't, we're not going to see that. And so his sack numbers could go down because they're not sending a lot of exotic rushes and things like that. Like Zimmer would mix in quite a bit. And I think that the Vikings were mid pack and blitzes.

So they were sending a fair number of blitzes that might play into it. Daniil Hunter also might show the signs of some of these injuries. I think that has to be said. Um, I don't quite want to go there until we see much more of the season, but Daniil has missed a lot of football over the last two years and he looked great last year for sure. Um, but you know, does time catch up with you a little bit? Um, I don't know, but his, you know, his numbers are not bad. His numbers are really not bad. Like when you look at his, um, his grades, they're, they're not, uh, like scary. So I'll give you an example in 2017, Hunter had a 66 pass rush grade.

It's gotten as high as 83. So that's our kind of parameters, 2019. He was incredible. So between a 66 and 83 grade, if 60 is average right now, he's a 70. So he's not quite the version in 2019 at this moment, but he's grading better than his, his numbers in pressures and sacks, which makes you think that it will come along eventually. But I don't know that it will, if he's being double teamed and if they're playing the way that they're playing. Um, but they are facing a very interesting decision with him, uh, in the off season, I believe. I mean, when I look at his contract and there's people who are really good with the contracts and I'm just kind of looking at it

off the cuff here a little bit at this moment, but I don't know that it's easy to move on from Daniel Hunter after this year. I think that renegotiating is really the only option, at least from over the cap.com right now. And let me look at what a post June would do. Yeah, they know they could move on from him post June 1st, but pre June 1st, they really can't after this year. So they wouldn't get a lot of cap space right away. They would have to, you know, push they would, or the, I'm sorry, they would get cap space right away, but they would push it down the road. So it's something to watch. That's the way I would put it.

It's something to watch because I know that these things come in bunches. They always do for pass rushers. They're like home runs for home run hitters, where you hit 15 of them in May and five of them in June. And that's kind of how it goes. I think sacks are like that, but the lack of pressures does make me think that it is being influenced by the scheme. Um, but yeah, some, something to keep an eye on as it pertains really to his future and just whether they can actually get a pass rush now, because I'll check this also

while I've got it up. I mean, did they, did they pressure Andy Dalton much? Cause it did not feel like they really did in that game. It felt like Andy Dalton was getting rid of the ball quickly, but also when he needed to throw it downfield, that he really didn't have any problems. So let me check here. Oh, wow, yeah. They only pressured Andy Dalton six times out of 30 dropbacks. That's it.

That's all they came up with. I don't know if that's sustainable to only pressure because even bad quarterbacks like Andy Dalton can make plays if you can't pressure them. So they either need to make an adjustment or figure out some ways to get to Neil Hunter to the quarterback, because if they pressure or lack that amount of pressure, they're going to turn bad quarterbacks into much better quarterbacks and look at Justin Fields numbers when he doesn't have any pressure, he's actually quite good. Um, so that's, yeah, that, that is, um, a subject to discuss as we go along in the future is what this all means for Daniel Hunter folks. Maybe you've been a little confused when

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7-Eleven, Hy-Vee, wherever it might be, or check out where you can find it at their store locator tool at liquiddeath.com slash insider. That is liquiddeath.com slash insider. All right. This from at TJGordon 76 on twitter says bored at the airport lounge headed to london thought i assume this is before the game thought i'd ask a fans only question is there a reason the vikings second half defense has been so strong or is it a random occurrence

in small sample size well you got your answer against the saints. Didn't you TJ? Uh, the answer is, I think it is a small sample size because new Orleans was able to move the ball really well in the second half of the game, but more so the way that teams play that when, you know, Philadelphia gets up to scores, they just started running the ball. And then Jalen Hurts throws an interception on a screen through it, right to Jordan Hicks. Like that's not really a great defensive play. It's just sort of the, whoop, the ball landed in my hands because they were playing very conservatively. If the Eagles had put the gas pedal down, I think they would have viewed it as being a little more risky, which I would agree. Uh, but they more likely than

not would have scored 40 points in that game. If they played like Kansas city played against Tampa Bay the other night where they were still trying to score and threw an interception and did kind of crack the door open a little bit, but they probably would have scored 40 at that point that helped. And then in Detroit, what I didn't really realize at the moment was that Amon Ross St. Brown was pretty dinged up, and I believe he didn't play the next game. And they had also lost DeAndre Swift. So they were playing very conservatively because their top weapon was hurt and then their other weapon was hurt.

And I think that that helped and benefited the Vikings in the second half. The thing that you have to look at, that you can't deny or rationalize away and have to wonder about is if the yardage and points are going to come closer to each other. Because right now they are 12th in points allowed and 27th in yards. And if that happens, and I talked about the average plays per drive, defensively, they're 24th worst in plays per drive. They're 26th in net yards per pass attempt. That's not good.

That's not good. They're 27th in first downs allowed. Those things in the long term, they have to be fixed. There has to be answers to those things or those two numbers will come closer together. And I looked at last year and did find some situations where there were teams that allowed a ton of yards and not a lot of points. Kansas City was one of those teams, but I don't feel like that's very sustainable. The only time you see that is when great offenses, they run away from people and

then teams desperately try to catch up and stuff like that, that they'll give up a lot of yards, even though they didn't give up a ton of points. Sometimes that happens, but that's not the Vikings so far this year. It really rests on the passing game to me. I don't know that there's a lot of easy answers on the defense to fix what I just said, that they're 27th in yards and they've given up tons of first downs and they're not pressuring the quarterback consistently. I don't know that there's an answer. There isn't like a trade deadline move, but this isn't hockey where you could just go pick up a scorer. They're not really in that mode and they don't have a cap space and there aren't that many players available when it comes to the NFL and trades. So you have

what you have and they've decided to do the bend. Don't break. And it's really bending. It's really bending a lot. Um, they need more performances like they got from cam Dantzler and Patrick Peterson. Who's just been terrific so far, Petersonerson but dantzler the other day played i think his best game as a pro they need that on a week-to-week basis and they have to survive the throws into the middle i i looked at this when opposing teams are throwing against eric kendricks jordan hicks or shannon sullivan they're averaging 10 yards a pass attempt so far teams having a lot of success there. So I don't, I don't know if there's a real answer on the defense to fix it. You're just going to have to survive it. And when it does rear its head in the second half of games,

which it inevitably will at times, you just have to overcome it. There's really no other answer. If you give up a big drive, you have to answer it. And so far they have had at the end of games, some really big throws from Kirk cousins and some huge plays to win them these games. But you're going to have to answer it consistently. Probably if you're, if you're up in a game, you have to keep the foot on the gas pedal because the defense is not likely to just bail you out by being great, which really is the case across the league. But, uh, this team in particular is giving up just, uh, just a lot to opposing quarterbacks, eight yards per pass attempt to opposing quarterbacks.

Like that's considering that they've played Rogers with no receivers who can only score, you know, 14 points on the bucks or whatever they played. Jared Goff was a legitimately great offense in Detroit, Philadelphia, Jalen hurts, who looks great. And then this last game, Andy Dalton. So kind of a mixed mass mass of passing offense is too good and too mid-pack or not great. So those numbers, I don't think are incredibly influenced by the quality of competition, but it's certainly, it will be helped by the schedule. It's just, they're going to give up yards and points. I don't think we can do the thing where every week we're like, Oh, defense, like you have to match it. And that's, that's what Kevin O'Connell is here for. You got to match it. Uh, next question

comes from at J T M N skull. It's been a few weeks and among head coaches hired across the league in 2022. Do you believe the Vikings made the right call with Kevin O'Connell? Josh McDaniels would have been an automatic no for me. Totally agree. But Brian Dable was someone that I had on the top of my list. Hashtag friend of the show. We'll appreciate that. That's a good question. Let's see who else we got.

Oh, Nate Hackett. That hasn't gone well. That hasn't gone well at all. But new coaches other than D bowl and McDaniels, there's a couple, right? Uh, Todd bowls, but he's been a head coach before. So he knows what he's doing for the most part. Um, Mike McDaniel, who I think has done an amazing job at dialing up plays and not so amazing of a job of protecting his quarterback. You could debate that all day long.

And I saw, you know, Michael Irvin gave an impassioned plea not to blame Mike McDaniel. I get it. He's a first time head coach. He's going to quote, believe the experts. But Bill Belichick then said today about players with concussions that he's pulled players off the field himself that he thought were concussed and shouldn't go back out there even if the team doctors were saying they could just to protect the player now that's not implying that bill belichick is mr moral because we know that that might not be the case but it's not good for anybody if you have a guy out there playing with a concussion it's not good for him It's not good for the way you play football.

That's what I never made sense to me. If somebody is, is dealing with that, are they okay out there? Is that somebody that you want out there playing? Like, I think you'd rather have the backup without a concussion. I don't know. I've never quite understood that, but I think when you wear the HC on the hat, you are in command of everything and you take responsibility for everything. And if you're trying to say, oh, it's not my fault.

Well, if you have the final call on whether someone plays or not, and all the common sense points to the guy had a concussion last week or might have, and it's hard to detect and you're just not sure then erring on the side of caution, especially when you spent $6 million on a backup quarterback, in a short week, there was so much working in favor of a common sense decision there, and McDaniel deserves criticism for not making that decision. However, if we take that part out of it, I think he has done a tremendous job in Miami with that team, really maximizing the weapons that they had and, and building a very explosive offense.

Um, am I missing anybody as far as new coaches go? Let's see, uh, Houston, who cares? Um, Oh, Jacksonville, Doug Peterson's done a good job there. They look like they're going in the right direction. So the question was just, you know, did they make the right call with Kevin O'Connell? And my answer would be yes. Um, and we're talking about a very small sample and we are also keeping in mind that there have been a lot of similar things that the fourth down aggressiveness has maybe not been quite where it should be. They might not be the offense that everybody dreamed of. Probably not. That everyone dreamed of this freak show, greatest show on turf offense that would be unstoppable and it was, you know, McVay and everything else.

But then reality is set in a little bit there. That there's only so much you can do as the play caller and as the head coach, there have been a few moments, Philadelphia, especially that you went, Oh man, I'm not sure that he meant to get away from the run the way he did. They weren't that far down and they took away the play action. And, and there, there are moments with Kevin O'Connell where he is still learning on the job, which is why it makes it hard to be in a win now mode. But you get a couple of breaks, you're three and one, and that learning curve is smoothed

out pretty well. So there's nitpicks that we could have. But on the whole, I think that his approach to handling the players, I think that his approach to handling the player health, and I don't know if this was his idea or not, but even when Lewis scene got hurt, keeping someone who works for the team back in England with Lewis scene, I thought was just a very compassionate and smart decision. Instead of just being like, see you back in the States, my brother, like, no, no, no, no. It's like, let's, uh, make sure that we keep someone with Lewis and let's

make sure we show some care for him. Uh, I thought that was smart. I thought that was good. Um, so I, yeah, I think that like the way those things have been handled, I like a lot about Kevin O'Connell. Some of the game plans have been better than others, but the opening scripts have really worked. And now it's in a similar way to Clint Kubiak. Can you adapt after that, after the opening script? And there's a lot to be decided so far. The biggest thing is if I asked you, Hey, where did Kevin O'Connell really blow it? Go ahead and answer it in your brain. You can't really come up with one.Connell really blow it? Go ahead and answer it in your brain. You can't really come up with one.

Like really blow it? Like really blow a situation with a player or really blow something like Mike McDaniel with this Tua situation or like Nate Hackett with the game management stuff or whatever they're trying to do on offense. I am yet to feel that way. And I've always thought that it's really about the bad things with coaches that really tell you something about them. Like Nate Hackett, right from the very start. Does this guy know what he's doing?

Probably not. Matt Rule is another one that I feel like it's been three years of me just bashing Matt rule, but they're going to fire him. And I don't know that he's ever really had a clue of what he's doing, uh, as a head coach in the NFL. And already it's starting to leak out like, Oh, they're losing confidence in Matt rule. That's because from day one, it seemed like he just didn't really know how to coach in the NFL. Kevin O'Connell is a former NFL player. He understands the NFL game. He understands how you need to act toward players and things like that. And, uh, I, I don't think that it's just the bias of knowing that

they're three in one. I think if you didn't tell me their record and you just showed me the information, I would not have expected them to be the number one offense in the league. And I think if you're making a criticism, that's probably it. It's that the offense is not what people expected so far. And that maybe it is too complex. And maybe there are too many options and things like that for the quarterback. And he didn't fully factor what Cousins is as a quarterback. I would also say that if C if cousins can't handle his offense, then they'll be talking about quarterbacks for the next draft. We're not going to go there yet with the team three and one, of course, but that is something that, you know, they have to have a discussion about if this continues with the passing game, not being as good as they expected

it to be. So a long way of saying that I totally agree. I think McDaniels is a, is a narcissist and he believes that he's the reason that his teams win. Uh, and everybody out like he, he was, I saw a quote from a former player that was with him in Denver, where he said, it didn't matter that they got rid of Jay Cutler because he could make any quarterback into an all-pro. And you're like, come on. No, you can't. No one can do that. If that was possible, then a lot worse quarterbacks would be good all the time. So I think that avoiding McDaniels was a good choice. Avoiding Hackett was a good choice. And we'll see on Dable. Dable's in a much tougher spot. I mean, that team, they're getting nothing from

Kenny Galladay. They're basically just having to run all the time and their quarterback is now banged up. Their backup quarterback is banged up. He's in a tough spot. Getting them to three and one is nice. We'll see how it goes from here. But I think also I have not had a single time where I went, what is this that Brian Dable's doing? Is he nuts? You know? So yeah, I think that, I think that they are in a good position with a sane person, which is a great start. It's a great start folks. A reminder to go to soda stick.com. It is almost hockey and basketball season. I am partial to the dunking wolf, but they have all sorts of great designs on hats, hoodies, and t-shirts.

If you want 15% off your purchase, go to SodaStick.com and use the promo code Purple Insider. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com, promo code Purple Insider. All right, next question from Harivov vinny hopefully i got that right on twitter we need to talk about lewis scene like you i was puzzled by the decision to trade back when a player like jameson williams was right there for you especially to the lions with the news that williams looks ready to return and the fact that scene couldn't get on the field when harrison smith was hurt should we be worried? And then of course,

now he's injured. I think this question was sent before he was injured, uh, with the offense, very inconsistent play and see not getting on the field. Are, uh, are we in the red?

I understand that it depends on what you think of Jamison Williams, but watch 20 seconds of him at Bama. And you'll just know, we'd love to hear your take. Knowing the front office has been talking about a competitive rebuild with no draft picks seeing the field. Yeah, the Lewis scene, I mean, first, right, this person did not ask this question after he got hurt,

so don't be like, oh, that's inappropriate to ask now. Is the guy a bust or something? Which I don't think anyone's asking anyway. He's out for the year, but his career is not likely to be over. It's going to be a very tough ride getting back on the field, but he's young and he'll be back. And possibly next year maybe play the same role. Depends on how they feel about how Cam Bynum played,

but compete for a starting spot. He'll have more experience. He'll be able to be around the team, continue to learn and all that. But to your actual point, which is really the comparison of what they decided to do on draft night, we haven't seen Andrew Booth yet. Brian Asamoah did not go in the game when Eric Hendricks was briefly injured the other day. It was Troy Dye and Ed Ingram is 48th out of 60 in pass blocking by PFF through four games, plenty of time for him to improve. Uh, and the same thing with Andrew Booth jr, like plenty of time for him to get healthy and play better. So it's, it's really hard to judge a draft class at this moment because we don't know where scenes career will go. We don't know about the health. Uh, we don't

know if Brian Asamoah ends up being the answer, the future linebacker, and he's just not the next man up right now. Or if that's something that you should go like, wow, okay. He was not the one that went in. We just don't really know yet. But when you see the way that the receivers outside of Justin Jefferson have not been able to consistently get the ball, despite a lot of talk from Kevin O'Connell about how Jefferson's helping everyone else get open. And that just does not show up on paper and maybe it shows up on film for him. And there are instances of course, and you can always go through this where you go, wow, there were guys open and the quarterback didn't throw it. But Adam Thielen is averaging 10 yards a catch. I don't know that that's changing. KJ Osborne has 11 catches so far.

And even with his 28 yard touchdown, he's only averaging 11 yards of reception. Irv Smith Jr. We've talked about that, but he's only caught 10 of 20 passes his way. The numbers outside of Justin Jefferson are just not very good. And could you have used the weapon that maybe the next guy comes in for Adam Thielen like Jamison Williams? Yes. The answer is yes. I thought it then that they should have just taken him, uh, and not, you know, not traded back and not tried to chase the extra draft capital, but try to take someone who had the

potential to be a star. That's how I felt, but I'm not trying to told you so on this because nobody ever really knows when it comes to draft picks. And the logic was to trade back, get more draft capital, rebuild the secondary, which had been putrid for the last few years and go forth. And I just, I'm just going to like totally discount the competitive rebuild part of this because I don't see that in any other area. This was play to win. And I think they were trying to draft a starting safety. And I think they were trying to draft insurance if they didn't believe in Cam Dantzler, because I'm sure it wasn't lost on them. What happened with Dantzler last year that Bashad Breeland got to play over him. And if I'm a new coach coming in, I'm going really, wow, that veteran who had some of

the worst numbers in the league was playing over this guy. And just long-term you're, you're not having Patrick Peterson here for the next five years. So you're looking for either a partner for Dantzler or somebody to even start if Dantzler were to struggle and let you down. So, so I think that there was logic in those picks. It's just as not just as important, but it's really important to stop the passing game. It's almost as important as your own passing game. Like that's how you win. I could see it, but now in the light of day, of course, we can already look back and go, there was that receiver there. And, and, and the weapons that were so touted have not yet, uh, performed the way that they

were expected. And with the age of some of those weapons, Thielen and Cook, could you have used one more? I thought so, but you know, this is, this is one with just like everything else. You have to give it time. We can't decide today how this worked out without seeing Jameson Williams. I just thought process wise, they really sold that. And there were some holes in that. And a major issue with it was the draft capital they got in return. I know some of the charts liked it a little. Okay. All right. Um, but you really dropped a long way, almost entirely out of the first round to get another player. And then you take a guard and then you take a linebacker.

Like I, I think that there are holes in that process that if this draft ends up not yielding them the type of players they were looking for, we can go back and wonder, was that really the right way to go? So, but with Louis scene, I think one of the interesting things about the season was going to be, does he eventually take that job away from Cam Bynum who I think has been okay.

Uh, but the higher end of course, with scene and now with his injury, you have to set that all the way back to maybe next training camp, best case scenario, but it might even take longer than that. Uh, all right. This from at swerving Mervin on Twitter, the Vikings offensive line is graded out. Okay. So far this year, sure. They've had flaws. You're right. They're 20th and pass blocking. Um, but that's okay. That's in the middle. Uh, they've mostly played better than the past agree. Also saw a stat last week that showed Kirk near the top of

the league in time to pass. Yes, that is true. The story with Kirk has always been that if he has a pocket, he's kept mostly clean. Wide receivers have time to get open. He's great. They seem to have all these things, but the offense has been so incredibly meh. What gives? Yeah, that's a great question and a really good observation because historically Kirk

Cousins with a clean pocket has been one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and Kirk Cousins when pressured has been one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. That is just who he is for most of his career. There's some years that are a little better than others, but it kind of is what it is with him. And this year, the clean pocket performance, and I could pull this up, but I think we all know intuitively that it has not been very good. And this is where the question arises. Is it because of the offense and the lack of clarity for Kirk Cousins,

or is it something else? Is it age? Is it age of his receivers? Like what, what is it? What is causing this? Is there confusion? Is it coaching? Is it just a small sample size, which is a really good question. Right now, Cousins is 16th and clean pocket quarterback rating. And his average depth of target in a clean pocket is 5.5 yards. So he's only three,

which is the second lowest in the league. Uh, when he's kept clean, he's not working the ball down the field really at all. And like you said, he is holding onto the ball though. Um, so some of these numbers are, are very head scratching. Like as far as time to throw, he is one of the top six in time to throw with a clean pocket. And the other guys like Marcus Mariota, Daniel Jones, Jalen Hurts, Justin Fields, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, those guys are running quarterbacks, or at least they move a lot more than he does. And, uh, and Hurts and Joe. Yeah, no, I mean, Hurts and, um, yeah, those are, those are running quarterbacks. Mary Mariota and Jones are not exactly running quarterbacks, but they do run more than Kirk cousins does. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I think that there's, there has to be some confusion

or some lack of confidence, something there that is causing Kirk's clean pocket numbers to be way different. And maybe it's the bootlegs and stuff have not really been there as much. They didn't use play action hardly at all when it came to against the Philadelphia Eagles. Maybe that's altering the numbers a little bit, but I don't think it takes a ton of numbers to figure this out. Like it's really just been what's right there in front of you. Um, now cousins numbers against, uh, with play action, I mean, are just great as, as you would expect, um, 118 quarterback rating with play action. So he's doing great

when he's got the play action going. So it isn't that it isn't that O'Connell hasn't figured out the play action game. What I feel like it is, is that Kevin O'Connell wants the receivers and quarterback to be dynamic out of the shotgun. They want to be able to adapt. They want to adjust to what they see. And then he wants multiple reads out of cousins. And I just don't get the impression that he feels very confident in those reads and making those throws. And this is not like the first time for that, but it's been a little bit on the extreme side. So I think that that's kind of the answer there. And it's, it's really good for the Vikings offensive line that they've played better. They have not been perfect, but they have played a lot better. And that's where that long-term, which way will it go? Will they continue to have these sputtering games all through the season, which is possible,

or is it going to improve as they understand the offense better? I think that's more likely that they improve as the offense gets better. And then you have to rely on luck, your defense staying healthy enough to at least compete and those sorts of things. But I think that it will improve as they go along with the comfort in the offense. Uh, let's get one more in here from at Peter M Towie on Twitter question, who is a worse three in one team of Vikings or Packers? I think that they so far, and I'll look this up and I'm sorry that I've spent a lot of time just like typing into my computer. Hopefully that's not annoying. Um, yeah, the expected win loss for the Packers is the same as the Vikings 2.2 and 1.8. We know what the long-term difference is, though.

That long-term over a full season, who are you more confident in playing better along the way? It's got to be Aaron Rodgers. It just has to be. I don't have any confidence in their receivers, but Romeo Dubs seems to be coming along a little bit for them. Alan Lazard had a good game the other day against the Patriots and their offense looked a little more functional than it looked against Tampa Bay. And then it looked against the Vikings.

They put up, and I know they had overtime, they put up 443 yards. So two out of the last three games, they're up over 400 yards. The Packers are the stronger overall roster. They are a very strong defense. They are right now seventh and points allowed fifth and yards. And that's after a tough game against the Vikings. And yes, they've had some breaks there with facing a third string quarterback. So that helped the other day, but they played well against Tom Brady. Yeah. I mean, I think that the other day, but they played well against Tom Brady. Yeah. I mean, I think that the overall roster, they get Bakhtiari back is stronger than the Vikings,

that they're probably a stronger team than the Vikings long-term. I think that the gap is as small as it's been in a long time though, because there isn't that superstar receiver because Rogers does look like he's very, very frustrated. These teams could very well race to the end. And it could be at the end of the season. You're talking about going to Lambeau with something on the line. And I mean, that would be exciting. Both teams are flawed. I think the Packers defense is better. That could separate them. Neither team. Let me look at the Packers. I think the Packers defense is better. That could separate them. Neither team. Let me look at the Packers. I think neither team has a hard schedule. Who do they play? Let's see. Giants, Jets, Commanders, Bills. Now they got some teams coming up. Bills, Lions, Cowboys, Titans, Eagles. Yeah, no, they've got some teams coming up. Packers might have a little bit more of a tough schedule, but might be a little better of a team.

If I had to guess right now, I think they're playing the final game of the season with something on the line, uh, in the playoffs or division title on the line. So that would be fun. If you're, if you're going to make me drive to Wisconsin in the middle of the winter, give me something. All right, let's get one more. Um, here. This is from, uh, the crackpot podcast, which is a friend of the show. Zach has been on the show before he looks at conspiracy theories and not in a like inventing them way, but it's, it's a, a really good idea. Uh, he says Zimmer often spoke of Anthony bars intangibles. I'd be curious if you've seen a noticeable difference without him, obviously different scheme and coaches leaving the bloated contract aside

thoughts on the Vikings linebacker crew without him, the Vikings linebackers at this moment have been their weakest point by the numbers. Jordan Hicks and Eric Hendricks have not graded out very well together. Teams have been taking advantage of the middle of the field a lot with the shell going on. They're getting attacked quite a bit and it hasn't gone great. With Anthony Barr, I think there was a lot to his game that was hard to quantify and the contract was never justified. No, of course it wasn't. But when you looked at it on tape, when you would go through the all 22 film and you would

see some of the subtleties of his game. And when the other thing is too, when they needed leadership from that linebacking core, they got it from Eric Hendricks, of course, because he's just like energizer bunny never stops going. And he's just a standup guy and everything else. So he's got that leadership element that everyone respects Eric Hendricks, but it was Anthony Barr who was calling the shots on the defense. He was the one that had the green dot where he's the one calling the plays and making the adjustments. And when they would run a lot of complex stuff on defense, Anthony Barr was the one call calling out things and making changes on the fly and everything else that stuff's important. Um, I mean, Jordan Hicks is, is a fine fill in player. I think they want

long, you know, better long-term than Jordan Hicks. This is a short-term solution for them, but there was more to Anthony Barr than just the guy who got paid too much and didn't have enough sacks or interceptions. There was a lot more to him than that. That does not mean he's a perfect player, but if, if, if you're asking me, do they miss the version of Anthony Barr that was good? Then yes, they do. Because right now, neither one of their linebackers are playing as well as Barr did at some of his best moments. And that leadership element, I think is important. The communication is extremely important on the defense and he was a valuable part and maybe just what you could do with him. Zimmer would make this point and I agree with it. You could blitz

with Anthony Barr. You could have him cover in zone. You could have him cover in man. If it wasn't on a wide receiver, he got roasted by a wide receiver in LA because of something happening. And everyone thought that he was just the worst cover linebacker ever. It's like, well, it's a receiver. He's not going to be able to run with a receiver. Most guys can't. But I think he was a valuable piece.

I wouldn't say that it's something I think is going to have a huge, huge, huge effect over the season, but that is an adjustment that some guys who have been there for a long time that always had Anthony Barr have to make. And when he was hurt, um, they always had trouble replacing him. Like Eric Wilson played well for a couple of games and people went, ah, you see, but then when Eric Wilson had to play for a long time, it wasn't very good. And the same went for Nick Vigil. Like he made a play against Arizona.

I was like, oh, you see, anybody can do this. And then after he was out there for a while, okay, maybe everybody can't do this. So good question. Good question. They probably do miss somebody who had such a high football IQ, great communication ability, and versatility. And he was a really, really strong pass rusher on the blitz. He was so big that he was a mismatch and he was still fast at his best. He was a mismatch for running backs that had to try to block him. That was tough for offenses. And the other thing was someone explained this to me, but Zimmer had it put in

that Anthony Barr could make adjustments based on what he saw the offensive line doing. So he would read the offensive line and their calls and them pointing out who the Mike linebacker was. And he could make a change based on how they were going to rush. So it was like adjusting to the adjustment. Can they do that now? It doesn't look like they're really doing that now. And maybe they don't have the capability. So great question. Great episode. Uh, if you're looking to be on a fans only episode, send me a question, purple insider.com or at Matthew collar on Twitter, fire off a DM there. Just, you know, let me know that it's a fans only question and I will do my best to get it on the show. You guys are the best. These questions are so good, smart,

thoughtful, um, really great stuff. And by the way, if you made it this far again, thank you, but check out the hot routes podcast as well. Once a week, I get together with Jonathan Harrison and one other person sometimes, and we have five questions where we go through the rest of the NFL. So if you're interested, Hot Routes with a Z, R-O-U-T-E-Z, is the podcast. Make sure you check that out, and I'll catch you later.