Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings among the biggest win-now teams in 2025?

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

Matthew Coller and Manny Hill make lists of the 5 biggest win-now teams in the NFL and answer Vikings fan questions.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Coller here. And I have what I hope is a really fun show for you tonight because we don't have a whole lot of big news items going on at the moment. This gives us an opportunity to have some really fun conversations. And one of the things that you guys know about me is that I love to discuss the big picture front office stuff, timelines, winning windows,

how teams manage their salary caps, who's building around a rookie quarterback and who's building around a 50 or 60 million dollar quarterback and how those teams like to manage those things. Specifically, of course, we've talked a lot about the Minnesota Vikings over the last couple of years and how general manager quasi daful Mensah has had his superpower essentially being the timeline and understanding how to take down a team, put back together a roster without having to go to the bottom. So here is what we're going to do tonight.

I'm going to welcome in my very good friend, Manny Hill here. And we are going to talk about, good evening Manny, the teams that need to win the Super Bowl this year the most. And I gave to Manny a very vague description of this because I want to talk about it the way that we see winning windows and which teams need to compete for the Super Bowl right now. The biggest win now teams in the NFL. So Manny, here's what we're going to do. I told you to make a list, but what I want to do is actually draft teams from the most desperate. So you pick the most desperate that I picked the most desperate to win now.

And I want to see how many teams we draft before we land on the Minnesota Vikings. So let me hear first though, man, in your opinion about whether this is a win now Minnesota Vikings team, because I've asked people that on the golf course out at TCO performance center, it's conversation in the media room. And some people think, no, why would this be a win now team? And I see a West in the comments says, if they went nine and eight, it would be a huge win. He calls it for nine and eight this season. I don't look at it that way. I've been very much on the train that this team is in win now mode,

but how do you answer that question, Manny? Are the Vikings a win now team? I think they absolutely are when now team. And, and, and I think it's, I think it's easy to look at, let's say they go nine and eight, you know, with JJ McCarthy starting for the first time in his career as a pro, Hey, if they go nine and eight with a young quarterback, a 22, 23 year old quarterback, that's, that's a successful season, right? But I think when you look at all of the moves that they've made in the off

season, all the money they spent in free agency, the first round pick that they used to, you know, try to solidify the offensive line to try and help the young quarterback. Everything that they've done this at this offseason, everything they did last offseason with getting Granard and Van Ginkle to try and rebuild the defense, everything indicates that they are trying to win right now and put themselves in a position to contend for Super Bowl. And I think when you make all of those moves, you don't spend all that money to go nine and eight. You just don't. I think with all of the moves that they made,

it's winning time now. Now, is that gonna actually happen? We'll see. There's a lot of teams that we're gonna go over here on the show tonight that are thinking the same thing, I think, to try and win right now and compete for a championship because that's what the league is. But I think the mindset with everything that they've done these last two off seasons has to be the win right now because otherwise what's the point? Why not instead just slow cook this thing and try and just build through the draft and try to build

up your young players. But they went out and got veteran players who are ready to win right now. Right. Digit says they're winning windows 2026 through 2030. And I don't know why their winning window wouldn't be today right now because and just to use some objective outside measure that isn't us who watch this team so closely all the time. And, you know, maybe a comparison across the league.

If you look at Mike Clay and the position rankings that he does from ESPN, it's actually a really cool thing. He ranks from, I think it's one to 10, every single position in the NFL position group. So offensive line, wide receivers. If you take the quarterback out of that, the Vikings are right there in the top three, four, five teams in the entire NFL on offense. And then on defense, the only position

that wasn't top notch on Mike Clay's rankings was the secondary, which still has some questions about it. But also I think we all agree that there's a lot of talent there as well in that secondary. And they could still potentially add when you're talking about a roster that is top five in the league, you are in winning mode right now. When the comparisons are the Eagles, the 49ers with Brock Purdy or with Jalen Hertz in Philadelphia, or, or if even, even if you go back to Jared Goff with the Los Angeles Rams on his rookie contract or the team that Philly beat that defeated the

Vikings in 2017. If those are your comparisons, then you are not sitting around waiting until next year and hoping. And the other thing is that eventually that window will close and have to be opened again with the current players that they have just based on the ages and the contracts of those players. And then you'll have to do some revamping to the roster. But I don't think when now has to mean screwed later, like you can look at it that way. And that's why I wanted to give a loose definition for our conversation here, because we might look at these teams that we're going to draft for the biggest win now teams and say, all right, well, this team is screwed later. And maybe they get bonus points in the draft

because that's part of it, right? And I think we do think of it that way. Like you have to win a Super Bowl this year or you are very screwed down the road, but I don't define it that way. I just mean it's time for you as a franchise with where your roster is and where your team is to go make it happen.

But you might look at it a little bit differently. So my definition of like you have to make this happen is that you walk into this season with a legitimate chance. And if you don't make the playoffs say like or like Cincinnati did last year or Philadelphia where they were eliminated by Tampa Bay two years ago in the first round, then it's a massive disappointment for you. That's where the start of the conversation is for me when it comes to these teams, but maybe you looked at it differently when I first pitched this

to you. No, I think we're I think we're thinking along the same lines. I, you know, I just kind of look at it as not necessarily, you know, are you screwed if you don't win, but what are the ramifications going forward if you don't win, if you have, let's say, a disappointing season. So, and disappointing season can be viewed for, you know, different ways depending on the team that we're talking about. You know, if the Kansas City Chiefs who've been to the Super Bowl the last handful of years, basically every year, if they go to the AFC Championship game and lose, that's a disappointment.

But that team has enough equity built up to where, you know, it's not like heads are going to roll, you know, Andy Reid's not going to get fired if they go to the AFC championship game and lose. Like that's just not going to happen. But what does it mean for somebody? Like, you know, if you're thinking about like the Baltimore Ravens, if, if that team doesn't can't get over the hump, what does that mean for somebody like John Harbaugh, who's been there for a really long time, the Pittsburgh Steelers

who were probably talk about here, Mike Tomlin's been there a very long time. They went and signed Aaron Rodgers. I got to think the mindset for that team has to be trying to win right now and what happens if that team doesn't make the playoffs. What's going to happen? What are the ramifications going to be going forward? So it might not necessarily mean like, oh you better win this year otherwise your window is closing after this year. It's more of like what's going to happen if you don't live up to the expectations that are bestowed upon you for this season.

Right. And I think it doesn't have to mean screwed to weigh that in ramifications is a good way to put it or how many more shots will you get at this with your current roster or with your current quarterback, et cetera, et cetera. So it is a little bit broad, which I think opens up us to a lot of conversation about each team that we draft, which we'll get to in a minute, but you guys keep your questions and comments coming.

Derek says this year will be weak. Next year will be a true contender. I just don't see that. I don't see why that should be. I don't see why this year looking at what they have on the roster, who they have as the coach. This roster has increased significantly in power from this off season. They were the busiest off season team in the entire NFL, adding the interior D line we've asked for, the interior O line that we've begged and pleaded and scratched our eyes out watching

through the years for them to increase and improve. They've got a top five defensive coordinator and this right here is right now. It's not a maybe next year or whatever and I've brought this up about the schedule. I do think the schedule is hard. I don't think the schedule is impossible and when I research strength of schedule through the years and compared preseason strength of schedule articles

to how the strengths of schedules actually worked out, it didn't really correlate as much as you thought. I mean, that doesn't mean it won't be hard. It just means that as of right now, it's not like it's so hard that they couldn't possibly step on the field with the teams that they're going to play against. So I have set the bar extremely high. And if the only reason you're not setting it as high

as McCarthy, that's a reason in my mind to set it high because they made this decision to move on from Darnold. They made this decision to not bring in Aaron Rogers and stick with McCarthy. So if they were projecting the performances of those players and decided it was a better idea still to go with McCarthy, then I shouldn't look at it and go, well, you know, if he throws like 14 touchdowns and six picks

and they go seven and 10, then that's fine. That's not fine because we know that Darnold was capable of what he did last year. And I think that right there sort of says how important it is for this team to win. And why would you sign all those players? Why would they sign here? Why would Jonathan Allen sign here and Javon Hargrave unless they thought this team has a serious chance to win? I shot you 99 says, do you think that the Wilfs have the patience for O'Connell to remain the Vikings coach longterm?

Mike Tomlin won a Superbowl, but it's been a long 17 years and he's still the coach of the Steelers. Uh, Manny, I think that when you get a Kevin O'Connell as your coach, you really, really have to think long and hard about making any sort of change. And with his new contract, we're not talking about that for a long time is my expectation, but we've seen teams that move on from long time coaches. And I know there's always that Tony Dungey to John Gruden example that everyone brings up from 20 years ago,

but it's not always the grass greener on the other side. It is so hard to find a good coach in the NFL. And if you found one who's capable of coach of the year, elevating quarterbacks, even in a year where you lose your quarterback, you're right in the mix for the playoffs. That's a coach you stick with. But I mean, I can't look 17 years down the road. Who knows? I just think that their investment in Kevin O'Connell this off season said pretty clearly the process here is good and you want to stick to that and even you know,

someone like Denny Green going back in Vikings history. Manny is they missed or they lost in the playoffs time and time again rarely missed in the playoffs but lost in the first round. It took until 97 and onside kick and a Randall Cunningham last-second touchdown to win a playoff game for Denny Green, but I think the reason that he got so much time there was because it was like this, like they were winning a lot, elevating quarterbacks and in the NFL,

I think you want to be very, very careful about, oh, well, we had one down year or we didn't win the playoffs or whatever. So now we're going to get rid of our coach. I think O'Connell is a guy that's very clearly you want to stick with for a long period of time. No question about it. And you know, when you brought up Denny, I mean, Denny was the coach of the Vikings for 10 seasons and he made the playoffs eight times. I mean,

that's just, you know, and people can say what they want about, you know, the playoffs success and losing the NSP title game to Atlanta and all of that. Good coaches don't just grow on trees, man. And when you've got one that is having a sustained level of success over the course of a handful of years, you really have to think long and hard about making a change there and just jumping to making a rash decision, so to speak, on letting a guy go and you know

you look at I brought up John Harbaugh a little bit earlier you know John Harbaugh has been there 17 years he's going into his 18th season now now his case is unique in that he did win a Super Bowl you know 13 years ago and so that's a big part of it too and that can kind of buy you some time. But we've seen guys win Super Bowls and then get fired a few years later because the ownership isn't as patient as they maybe need to be. But when you look at a guy like John Harbaugh, the Ravens are, once again, they're right there in this discussion of teams that are in contention in the Super Bowl conversation every year because they have a very good head coach who's been

very good for a long time and they didn't just the shot he didn't just hit the panic button and fire him after one down season so I think it's important that if you have a guy and he's had some success, made the playoffs two out of three times, double digit wins 13 and 14 win seasons, um, in three seasons, I think you got to hold onto that guy unless the wheels just really come tumbling off and everything that this team has done. I can't imagine that that's going to happen unless they just get ravaged by injuries. And if that happens, how do you let the head coach go? If half your roster is injured and then you go six and 11, I mean, you can't

fire the coach after that. So, um, yeah, I think the Vikings have a good guy in, in, in place. And I think they need to ride this out and see how this stuff plays out over the next several years. And it matters a lot what the culture is like to the long-term because if you have a Mike Zimmer where it burns hot and it also burns out because he is so hard on players,

then that's a lot more difficult. Even though you always were competitive with Mike Zimmer, there was never a season where they weren't in the hunt, at least, or in the playoffs, or going to the NFC Championship every single year was a fairly competitive season outside of 2020. You know, they start what one and five and finish seven and nine maybe not so much but that was really about it. It really became about just how the players

were responding to him at that point and with Kevin O'Connell unless something changes severely in the way that he approaches his players, it's pretty hard to see a locker room not being behind Kevin O'Connell. And you see how they vote in the NFL PA anonymous survey. And that's sort of good feedback for us to know, like, this is what I think I'm seeing,

but am I seeing that? And the answer is yes, when it comes to how the players are viewing him and that is going To sustain you through a lot of ups and downs and it's also going to help you squeak out that eighth or ninth win Even during a tough season and you know you look at his worst year. They were a tush push away they were a Nick Mullins interception on the last drive away a fumble from Alex Madison away from being in the playoffs even though they had lost Kirk in the middle of the season and that team never gave up all the way to the end

we have definitely seen some teams in the past that were like all right we have had just about enough of this head coach and I shot you follows up by saying if he doesn't win the Super Bowl in the next five years how patient will they be? I mean, if you are giving yourself a shot every single year to be in that conversation, it's really hard to predict who can win the Super Bowl. Who's going through all those playoffs? Who has the right breaks?

Who has the right health? Who has the right matchups? Which I think matters a ton. If the Vikings had played the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, we might've been having a very different conversation, but instead they played the worst possible team matchup wise. If you're going into the playoffs every single year

and you have a bad setback year, or you get knocked out in the first round a couple times, you're not changing your coach. I do say though that for this, and maybe we'll kick off our draft of these teams in just a second, but there is pressure now, but we can't make it pressure as in fired. It seems to always have to mean fired. And I understand why that is because owners fire coaches so often in the

NFL, but pressure to win in the playoffs right now after winning 13 and 14 games and coming away with zero playoff wins, that is real for Kevin O'Connell. And if they go into the playoffs again this year with a 10 and seven record get knocked out in the first round, then it's going to be what five years, four years of four years of Kevin O'Connell with no playoff wins. And if you told everybody when he was hired that he had four years and no playoff wins,

that would be a huge disappointment regardless of what happens in the regular season. So that does sound like out of the both sides of my mouth, but if it's being asked about with the Wilfs and being patient and that tends to mean, would they fire him if he doesn't win the Superbowl in five years? The answer is of course not.

Of course they're not going to do that. I think they would prefer to have a Mike Tomlin where every year you roll into the season, you've got a legitimate chance to be in the playoffs and be in that hunt. But there will be a year where if there isn't playoff wins and it sort of starts this year, but I think 2026 would be the real one. If you got to five years, no playoff wins. And you're three years into the rookie quarterback contract. Then we're starting to say, all right, the dial is turned up on the heat on Kevin O'Connell.

But that sort of takes us a little bit farther down the road than we need to get. One more from Aaron says, how much improvement do we need to see from special teams this season? Aaron, that is a little bit random, but I think actually the answer is probably a lot because it was one of the worst units in the NFL last year.

And this year that kickoff is going to matter way more, which I wrote about today at purple insider dot football. So Manny, why don't we start our draft here and how we're drafting teams is most desperate to win the Super Bowl. Biggest win now teams. And we're going to see how far we get before we land on the Minnesota Vikings. So of course you as the guest, Mr. Hill, you have the first overall draft pick.

It means you tanked. So you got the number one pick. Who do you think is the most desperate team to win the Super Bowl? The biggest win now franchise in the NFL in 2025? I'm gonna go with the Buffalo Bills. I think just because, not because a window is closing or anything like that, I think it's just because they've come so close so many times in the last half decade and it always just seems to be, they had the one year where they lost to Joe Burrow, but every year it's always the Chiefs.

It's always the Chiefs knocking them out. And they come so close, seemingly every single time. I just think that with the reigning MVP being as great as he is, McDermott is still a very good coach. They've had some good defenses over the years. It's just, I think they have to, and it's a franchise two-collar that,

I mean, and you know this, you grew up in Buffalo in that area, you saw so much of that, those four straight Super Bowl losses. It's a franchise in a community that is just desperate for a championship. And when you have a team like that, that has a great, great quarterback that has come so close so many times, I think the Buffalo Bills right now have to feel like the most desperate team to win a

championship. I completely agree. And one of the reasons also is when I look at that roster, And one of the reasons also is when I look at that roster, I don't see a bunch of players that are super young talents. Hey, they're just building around Josh Allen, give it a couple years. Once these guys hit their prime, they're good to go. And I'm sure everybody there has their favorite pet young player that they think is gonna be great. I'm pretty skeptical on Keon Coleman

and some other guys on their team that have shown flashes But maybe aren't quite at their peak yet but I look at it as they have a roster that is good enough to be in the AFC Championship last year and Play with anybody in the NFL last season because of their quarterback They've also made a bet on that wide receiver position that they could just sort of cobble it together made a bet on that wide receiver position that they could just sort of cobble it together. Sometimes with former draft picks that haven't worked out like Elijah Moore or Curtis Samuel, just, Oh no, no, no.

We're going to be the ones like the, uh, Patriots with Tom Brady, where they used to bring in like the Jabar Gaffney's and Dante Stalworth's and stuff. And they're like, Oh no, he'll just make them great. Well, they're doing the same thing. And that has to work for them because if they go into a playoffs again and Josh Allen throws for 160 yards and they lose 27 to 24,

everyone's gonna say, you had a chance to go out and get other wide receivers, you pass time and time again and it isn't like there's that next guy who's going to sustain them through year after year. So I think there is a ton of pressure. The way that they've lost in the playoffs has just been so crazy. Think about how far that goes back. Wasn't it 2019 where they had the 17 seconds game or 13 set with a 13 second game?

I think that was 20. I think that was 2021. Was it 2021? Yeah, it was the year the Bengals went to the Super Bowl. Okay, so you're still talking about like years where, oh, you're right. Yeah, 2021. So you're still talking about like years since their biggest travesty, but then they miss a field goal.

Then last year they have a tight end, have the ball go through your arms. And there is going to be one of these years where Alan gets hurt or it just doesn't work out for them. And when that happens, it's kind of like the whole thing breaks. And if this year, instead of winning 13 or 14 games, maybe I, did they play the AFC South last year too? Cause I, I feel like they were a team that got some free wins also. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but let's say it's only a, let's say it's only a 10

win season and it's a lot more difficult. And then they go into the playoffs and lose. You are talking about potentially Sean McDermott being under the gun at that point with that Buffalo Bills team. I think that's a great pick. My next selection would be the Philadelphia Eagles, even though they just won. I did not factor that in. I, this is just for 2025.

So of course, is there really pressure on everybody? No, that doesn't mean you're going to get fired if you go nine and eight and drop off the side of the earth. But my perspective on the Eagles being the next one is just look at their salary cap situation. And I respect Jalen Hurts a ton. You and I, Manny, going back to our radio days, we're begging the Minnesota Vikings, draft Jalen Hurts, draft Jalen Hurts, pick your future quarterback, develop him, put him in, it'll work. It worked for somebody else.

But I also know the reality of Jalen Hurts is that he isn't the type of quarterback like Josh Allen, where you feel like no matter what's going on around him, this guy is going to get you 1213 wins. I don't see that from Jalen hurts. I don't think of him that way. A quarterback that throws for 2900 yards is not the type of quarterback that you could just put everything on. They need this freak. And that's no disrespect. Again, he's a great quarterback, but they need this freak roster and this freak roster main, I mean, Lane Johnson is 35 and they do have some young talent there, but not all of it. And Saquon Barkley, how much longer will he be at this type of level that can

drive their success? AJ Brown seems like he's always dealing with some sort of injury. Then players get more expensive. I think Philadelphia has to make it happen and they've got to make it happen fast. And look, their GM is so good that they could argue, oh, we'll just reload and reset and everything else. But with this current group, it's got to happen now as far as like them pulling off a repeat. Yeah, no, I like that. And you know, you talked about like their cap situation.

I mean, that's teams are always able to sort of finagle and manipulate the cap. You know, Rob Brzezinski has done it for years with the Vikings. But you know, eventually at some point you're gonna have to pay that credit card bill. If you start if you keep swiping that credit card and it works out for you and you buy all these nice things and it works out great for you, it's fine. But eventually you're gonna have to pay that bill. So,

Howie Roseman has done a great job, but I think he knows too that we have this window of opportunity right now to become this great, kind of go on this dynastic run, so to speak, you know, winning, going to the super bowl a couple of years ago and then turning them around and winning it last year, find a way to win it again this year. I think there's something to, you know, kind of feeling desperate. Like we got to try and make the most of this window that we have right now. So I like that pick.

All right. Who is your next selection? My next selection. I'm going to go kind of talking out of two twins in my neck here. I'm going to go with the Kansas city chiefs. And here's why. Not because I think a window is closing because I think there's always going to be a window open when you have number 15 at quarterback. But when you look at some

of the guys on that roster too, you look at Travis Kelsey, there was questions about whether or not he was even going to come back. Although I never, I was kind of had a sense he was going to come back, especially losing the Superbowl. He's not going to want to go out that way. But you know, Travis Kelsey is one of the greatest tight ends of all time obviously But how much tread is left on that tire really at this stage 35 years old and also the head coach Andy Reid You know, how long does Andy want to continue to do this? So I think Losing the Super Bowl losing it the way they did last year just getting the doors blown off of them That's a very prideful franchise.

I think a prideful quarterback, a prideful head coach, suddenly a prideful tight end. Um, I think there's a, there's a, there's a want to redeem themselves after what happened last year. Um, and also I think they know that the clock is ticking for some of those older players that they want to try and get, make one more run. So I'll take the Kansas City Chiefs there. So this is one that I debated on.

Where should they go in this? Because you are going to have how many more chances as long as Patrick Mahomes is your quarterback. And as I was going through it and thinking about their roster, one of the reasons that I didn't have them as high is because I think their roster is in transition. So Buffalo ended up proving us wrong about that. But remember the way we talked about Buffalo last off season was, Hey, you know,

they might actually take a step back and this might not be their year to really go after it because they had to lose a lot of talent. I kind of feel that way about Kansas city is even though they won 15 games Even though they got as far as they did last year all the way to the Super Bowl It still felt like the entire time we all kind of knew this team is not as complete as it used to be and It will have to go through some sort of overhaul at some point well still winning Because they have Patrick Mahomes and I think that last year in the super bowl, it kind of starts there. And this might be that year.

Now, if they get Rushy rice back, worthy takes the step forward. Maybe they're just, you know, winning 14 games again, because they're Kansas city and they have Patrick Mahomes and maybe their explosive plays start to return, but I look at that thing and go, well, they lost to me. They used to have a better tackle in Orlando Brown. They lost him. They've you know, Chris Jones is getting older Like where are they really at? They need an influx of new talent But your point on Andy Reid though I think is really good because you just don't know any one of these years when a coach gets to this point

They could just say you know what? It's been a great run and it's over and I don't think that means that they're done forever because of who their quarterback is, but if you're talking about desperation to win this year, any season that Andy Reed remains their coach, they belong up in that top of that conversation. The next thing that I'm going to draft that is more desperate to win than the Minnesota Vikings would be the Los Angeles ramps. They were within one drive against the Philadelphia Eagles in the snow

and the playoffs, the drafting. I know nobody wants to bring it up, but Jared verse, the drafting of Jared verse, don't want us to hear it. But they got themselves a star there. Their defensive line is filthy. But their quarterback, see, I think that their roster could be good for years, but their quarterback does not have that many years left on his body. Matthew Stafford is a walking injury report and year after year after year,

the guy's banged up. He's had many back injuries, elbow injuries, shoulder injuries, all those things through the years. And last year, because he played so well against the Vikings in the playoffs and because he played so well down the stretch, it's easy to forget when you go back and look at his full season, it really wasn't that great. It was more of an average season from Stafford. He signed a new contract, which makes him pretty expensive.

Do you have two seasons left of Stafford? And it could be just one if he ends up getting hurt. So I put the Rams up there because after Stafford, I think we know that McVeigh can make quarterbacks good the same way. O'Connell does. That's who he learned from, but that talented Matthew Stafford to get hot and go all the way through the playoffs and lead a game winning drive in the Superbowl and things like that. No guarantee that you're able to find the next Matthew Stafford for that offense after this.

And I know Sean McVeigh is still very much a young guy. Has he even turned 40 yet? I don't think he's turned 40 yet. That's a crazy thing. But you know, the thing, what's interesting about Sean McVeigh too though, is that there was always speculation, just as recently as a couple of years ago of like,

oh, Sean McVeigh gonna take, gonna step down and take a break and get into broadcasting and then maybe resurface with another team in a couple of years. Um, you know, even though he's a very young guy and he's certainly one of the great coaches that we have in the league, you know, you, you, sometimes that job can take a lot of, can take a lot out of people. And you kind of wonder like, if is Sean McVeigh one of those guys that is thinking about every offseason thinking about, do I want to do this another year with

this team in this particular situation? So I think that's gonna be a question mark to maybe you know Some you know question of speculation the next couple of years is just like how long does Sean McVay want to stick around? If Matthew Stafford decides to retire is that gonna be the time when Sean McVay? decides to step away for a couple of years a Year or two to you know sort of recharge his own battery, so to speak too. So that can be a pivotal moment for the franchise too. Aaron brings up the fact that they got that first rounder in the draft from the Atlanta Falcons.

They could use that next year to draft a quarterback, but look, there's no guarantee that you draft a quarterback and it works. I mean, the San Francisco 49ers picked Trey Lance and Kyle Shanahan is as much of a quarterback whisperer as anybody of the last two decades. And yet they still had a quarterback that didn't work out. You never really know after that.

Maybe McVeigh doesn't wanna go through that. Maybe he wants to take 20 million a year to work for Amazon or something, broadcasting the NFL. I could see that happening. No, that's a good point because we don't think of a younger coach as somebody who could retire at any time, but that has been out there for a couple of years. And if they got really close this year, if they got to the NFC championship lost, maybe Stafford retires.

I don't know. We'll see. They're always going to be good. But my key thing here is really Stafford putting them in that securely win. Now category, who is your next selection? My next selection is the Detroit Lions. And the reason why I'm picking the Lions is because. They've done such a great job of building this roster up. And, you know, they came close two years ago.

They had a double digit lead in the NFC title game in San Francisco. And they let it slip away. And before the injuries hit last year, it was like they were the team. It was like, oh, this team is ready. This is their moment. This is their season. Then Aiden Hutchinson gets hurt. And then they lost so many other guys on the

defensive side and that just crushed them in the divisional round against against Washington. So I think with all of those guys coming back now, I think that's a team that, you know, with the quarterback, you know, Jared Goff is still very good, but you know, he's he's on the other side of 30. Now he's going to start getting up there and age a little bit. And you kind of wonder how long he's going to be at his peak, uh, like he is right now. That's a team that I think with, with the way that they have

skyrocketed into contention, uh, the last couple of years and the way things ended for them last year with all the injuries and just getting beat up. This is, I think this is a team that feels like this is this is our time. Now we got everybody back healthy. This is the time for us to win a championship. So I'll go with the Detroit Lions for my next pick. So the other day I had Nolan Bianchi on the show who covers the Lions for the Detroit News and we about just this, like, is there regression around the corner? Did they miss their big chance?

And very possible that they did, depending on what their new offensive coordinator does and what their new defensive coordinator does actually. But when you look at the roster, his contention was more of two years for Detroit when you look at the roster and the contracts. But if you're in a spot where it's two years or it's all gonna probably come apart at some point or go full Vikings 2019 where Everybody just reaches a point of being too expensive Including Jared Goff on a new contract and there is only so many things you can do with that salary cap

And how much longer is Jared Goff going to be in his prime where he can lead number one type of offenses. I think that they're a really good pick here and they were up there for me maybe not quite as high in the desperate to win now because I do think there's enough young talent that even if they had a step back season and they went nine and eight or something we're still going into the next year saying, okay, Detroit should still be a favorite. They've still got a loaded offense, a loaded defense, and maybe they just went through some bad offensive line reset or offensive

coordinator that didn't work out kind of the same way that Philadelphia had that reset year after they hired the wrong offensive coordinator to replace Shane Stikin, and then they got the right one in, uh, Kellyn Moore and all of a sudden they get back and win the super bowl. So I don't put them quite on the same level as some of these other teams for, Oh my gosh, it needs to happen. But they're definitely that team where, you know, you're going to get. Only X number of swings, and then you're going to have to reset because it's not like you have a quarterback who is Jaden Daniels and that team is not making this list.

It's not like you have Jaden Daniels that's 25 years old and you know that you're going to be building and building every year and have a lot of shots. So I like Detroit. My next pick though, I think is one of the most desperate teams in general and they showed their desperation this off season by playing the game with a a Ron, the Pittsburgh Steelers. I know, uh, Tomlin got an extension this off season, but this has to be it for Mike Tomlin, if this doesn't work out, if they don't get into the playoffs and

they don't win in the playoffs and they don't do something serious, Go deep, go to the AFC championship, go to the Super Bowl. Then it is a major disappointment for them because they didn't draft the quarterback. There's no real future at that position. Guys like Cam Hayward are on the older side. Some of their star players, they went all in for it to me and overrated wide receiver. I would take DK Metcalf is my wide receiver too on any team to carry an offense. That's not my guy. I'm not picking him, especially off of maybe his worst career season.

And then to pair with a quarterback that has not played well in this league since 2021, you can smell the desperation in Pittsburgh all the way from Minnesota. So they are absolutely ahead of the Minnesota Vikings on this list. Yeah, I agree. And, you know, it would be different for me with the Steelers if they had set a plan in place kind of similar to what the Vikings did with, you know, moving on, you know, let's say a couple of years, you know, and they they tried it with Kenny picket a couple years ago

It just didn't work out. That was a weak quarterback draft you know, I get it but You know if and I don't know what the quarterback class is gonna look like next year. We'll see but if if the Steelers plan was to All right, we're gonna Mason Rudolph is an ideal or we're going to sort of take a gap year. We might go like 6-11, but, you know, the idea is that we're going to be in a position to take a young quarterback next year and, and really try to build things around it. And if you want to do that with Mike Tomlin because we know the Steelers have a history of being very patient with their head coaches

I mean Bill Cower went to the Super Bowl in his fourth year as head coach there and Then won the Super Bowl in his 14th season there and he mixed in some six and tens and seven and nines along the way in That 10-year gap so the Steelers are not a team that's going to just fire their coach after one bad season. If the plan is going to be, hey, we're going to try this, we're going to take another swing at a young quarterback and try to make this happen. But they didn't do that. They're going with the route of Aaron Rodgers. So if you're going to sign a 41 year old, four time MVP, the idea is that you're going to try and win. Now the problem is you're in the same division as Joe burrow and Lamar Jackson.

Good luck. No, that's a perfectly said because they have had forks in the road recently where they could say, we're going to take down our roster. We're going to take a step back. And it's actually ironic that the Vikings did this by accident with a JJ McCarthy. We've always talked about how the Wilfs, they want to be just like Pittsburgh. They want to be like these teams that are always competitive year after year that are, have good ownership and good management and all that sort of stuff.

And they accidentally took a step back, which put them in position to draft their future franchise quarterback while Pittsburgh, see, it doesn't have to be a full tank. Step back is different. And we had this discussion about when the Vikings first got here with their leadership, Kwesi Dapham, Mensa, Kevin O'Connell. And I remember saying that they should move on from Kirk and get Marcus Mariota and win seven games and draft quarterback. And they did that the next year in 2023. But again, by accident, they only got four games and then it was eight games, four wins.

And then it's Josh jobs and then it's Mullins and then we'll never forget when Sharon Hall started on national TV. Was that the same night Kirk took his shirt off and did the Gala horn thing Yeah, we that will be forever seared into my memory. Unfortunately But you know, they it was just an accident the Steelers need a happy accident they need to get a seven win season and Aaron Rodgers might deliver this again by accident, right? Maybe need that but the thing, if they win seven games,

do they just fire Tomlin? And that's what makes this so complicated. Because if you all agreed that Mason Rudolph was going to start and you were going to win six games, and then you're going to draft, I think, next year is a pretty good quarterback draft. So you're going to draft maybe the third quarterback off the top of the list.

That's a good plan. And this is why we give credit to the Vikings for understanding timelines and their plans. But if JJ McCarthy becomes the next great quarterback, we always got to remember that Achilles. We always got to remember Kirk in Green Bay because that was what set it off. If he doesn't do that, then they are trading multiple first round picks from McCarthy and it might be a bit of a different position. Okay, your pick. My pick I'm going to and I'm wavering on this because I've got two teams, but I'm going to go with the Cincinnati Bengals here. You know that run to the Super Bowl was such a fun ride for them and that fan base and Joe Burrow

coming in in year two, coming off, tearing his ACL as a rookie and stepping in and being that guy to take that team to the Super Bowl. And if they had a better offensive line, you kind of wonder if they would have found a way to win that game too. But it's been, and obviously the next year they got back to the AFC title game and lost in heartbreaking fashion, uh, to the chiefs. But now you're kind of wondering with what happened last year with the defense really falling apart the way it did last season, uh, you've got to think.

They, you know, tasting getting to the Super Bowl like that four years ago. They want to, I got to think that they really want to taste that again. And they have, you know, at least on the offensive side, you know, they were able to retain T Higgins. You still got Jamar Chase, still got, you know, probably the best one-two punch of wide receivers in the league. You've got a guy at quarterback who's one of the top five quarterbacks in the league and played like an MVP last year With not a lot to work with at least on the defensive side I gotta think that franchise is feeling really desperate right now, especially it's just a team that just hasn't

They don't they haven't had a lot of opportunities, you know They got in the Super Bowl a couple times in the 80s and it was really of opportunities, you know, they got to the Super Bowl a couple of times in the eighties and it was really, uh, you know, decades of just dog days and, and playoff failures with Marvin Lewis. They got a taste of the Super Bowl again, and I got to think that they want to, um, they want to get back there and they have everything, at least on the offensive side to be able to get it done. So I got to think they're feeling pretty desperate too.

And their coach is another one where when you miss the playoffs with Joe Burrow as your quarterback, you have to fire your defensive coordinator. All of a sudden that white hot light starts to get a lot warmer. And with Cincinnati it's Burroughs contract, but it's also Jamar Chase's contract, which is essentially an average quarterback contract. And then T Higgins being paid what he is paid as well. You're getting a little bit tight with that cap room. And this is not a team that's going to go into free agency and

sign a free agents like the Vikings did this off season. They're sheep nature has been very well documented documented this off season, including going to battle with their first round draft pick and him missing OTAs and mini camp and all that. They seem to be able to sign their own people for the most part, but then Trey Hendrickson is also at war with his own franchise and I think that those things will get resolved. But look at their free agency. This would have been a team that you would have said, hey you guys got to go sign some real defensive players spend some money

Guarantee some dollars guys and they just didn't do it at all So what's next for them if things get even tighter next season? After those contracts go up because the way every team schedules these contracts are today. It's fine tomorrow It's problematic. Oh you can restructure some of it, but where does that money go? It doesn't go poof into the atmosphere. It goes into the future, making things even harder for you. So even though they do have one of the great quarterbacks that will sustain them year after year,

they might be in the middle of a reset here for dropping back if they don't go and do something this year. It's going to be pretty tough to do. And because they have burrow, they're never drafting all that high. They're very rarely taking top draft picks since they took Jamar chase at the top. Here's where the Vikings start to get into the conversation because the team we have not mentioned is Baltimore.

I could not pick Baltimore though, because I think there's, there's pressure from the outside world of Lamar, dude, you've got to get it done. You got to win in the playoffs. You got to win a championship. But when I look at how their team is managed, how they always seem to have an influx of young talent, how they manage their salary cap really well, they understand when to let players go. I always look at their salary cap and go, why are they never in all that much trouble? Which makes it even stranger that they fought Lamar tooth and nail to get that contract done and I'm sure there was no collusion anywhere during that process. But when you look at their secondary, they've just took another safety, but they've got

Kyle Hamilton there. And on the offensive side, their receivers are pretty young. They just always are resetting. So I didn't really want to go with them. And that left me, Manny, with kind of questions about where I wanted to go with this next pick. Because let me make a couple of short arguments and then we can decide. You could say the Packers because Jordan Love will get more

expensive, but they still do have a lot of younger players under contract for the next few years. San Francisco. I just think it's over and I could be wrong, but I just think it's over. I don't think that they're going back anywhere. The other team that we have just etched out of our minds because they were so bad last year is the Dallas Cowboys. Their quarterback is the highest paid in the National Football League, and they are going to have to pay Michael Parsons, the highest paid defensive player in the National Football League.

And their owner is 100 million years old. So he should be doing everything to win, even though I'm not sure that he did the last couple of years. I don't know where to go with that. So he should be doing everything to win, even though I'm not sure that he did the last couple of years. I don't know where to go with that. I think I want to go Dallas here is still a more desperate team than the Minnesota Vikings. Yeah, Dallas was actually the other team that I was juggling between them and Cincinnati just because of everything that you just laid out for them. They changed their, you know, they got a new head coach now, obviously. Uh, but you know, Dak Prescott, the, the, the conversations that, that have

been had about Lamar Jackson have been had about Dak Prescott too. And obviously I think Lamar is a much better quarterback, but. You know, the, the, the national narrative with Dak Prescott has just been. Come on, Dak, when, when when are you gonna do it man when are you gonna take this team to the next level and every year it's it's always something it's it's injuries it's coaching it's you know all should should Mike McCarthy have been calling plays instead of Kellen Moore or you know what were they doing at the end of the game? It's all the defense's problem that, you know, the defense couldn't stop anybody, you know, Dak got injured at some point. It's like, it's, it's, it's time. It's, it's time. And, and let's be honest,

you're the Dallas Cowboys. You're the most talked about franchise in the league, not named the Kansas city chiefs. Um, and so, you know, it's been three decades since they have won the super bowl and have been like a legitimate super bowl contender. You mentioned Jerry Jones being, you know, 178 years old at this point. And you know, Jerry is, I'm sure he's very desperate at his age, uh, to, to have another, another title run. And I think it's part of the reason why he won't really give up managing control of the team at this age. So yeah, the Cowboys, I think, are a great pick of just pure desperation of, you know,

when is this going to happen for that franchise? So now is there anybody else that would be more desperate than the Minnesota Vikings to win this year in 2025? And if you want to make the argument that they don't need to be desperate to win in 2025, I think that I'm willing to hear that out because so many of their key pieces are under contract through 2026. So many of their key pieces, Jefferson, Addison, Darasaw, like these guys are, Grenard, they are in their primes. They are some of them just starting their primes like Justin Jefferson. I think usually they think of wide receiver prime is 27, 28. So he's not even there yet, which is insane. And you assume that as long as he's the best wide receiver in the NFL, you've got great chances to win.

You're going to have multiple shots at it with a rookie quarterback contract. But when I go through other teams, I can't find one that has had this much success recently, spent this much money on all the free agents and out of one side of your mouth, you could say they've got in their prime talent, but you can also look and go, well, Harrison Smith is not in his prime.

Jonathan Allen is not in his prime. Javon Hargrave is not in his prime. There's a good number of players and even Brian O'Neill is now past it as well. There is a good number of players, Ryan Kelly, Aaron Jones, that are looking at last dances here with the Minnesota Vikings to try to win. I look at a team like Miami in the same category as San Francisco, though, I think it just passed. I think that they lost it. They had their one big shot, two was great year, and they missed on that. The Chargers look to me like a team that's still building around Justin Herbert, that they're gonna need probably another year.

They were really good last year, but to have a behemoth team, I thought they drafted well, so maybe they're on the rise, but if they don't win this year, I think they'll continue to run it back a few more times. Denver has Bo Nix. I just sort of running through the other teams.

Houston seems like, I mean, they've they've done a nice job of building that team and they've kind of taken advantage of a weaker division, but it still feels like CJ Stroud is still kind of ascending and that there's room for more growth there and room for more ascension into greatness perhaps for him. So it doesn't really feel like they're super desperate. Although that's a division that it feels like they should be able to own and control at least for the next couple of years.

So outside of that, I don't know if there's really anybody else. So this brings us to the discussion of who is more desperate to win this year, the Minnesota Vikings or the Green Bay Packers? What is your answer? the Minnesota Vikings or the Green Bay Packers? What is your answer? I'm gonna go, I'll go Vikings.

I'll go Vikings just because of what we've talked about before. They just made so many moves in free agency. They've just brought in so many guys. And the Packers have never really been a team that has just gone out and just spent a bunch of money in free agency. They've just brought in so many guys and the Packers have never really been a team that has just gone out and just spent a bunch of money in free agency. They've always kind of tried to build through the draft and you know they've got a good good quarterback and Jordan Love. I think with just everything if you're talking about those two teams specifically and comparing them I think

with everything the Vikings have done over those last two off seasons I think with everything the Vikings have done over those last two off seasons, I think it is it is time to win now and I think especially when you consider the guys that they signed and I keep thinking about those two defensive tackles Allen and Hargrave. They're both on the other side of 30 They're good players still but it's like how much They're good players still, but it's like how much, you know, how much good production are you realistically going to have with those two guys? You know, this, this year, 2025 might be it, you know, and we sometimes we see defensive tackles age fairly well, but you just never know. So I think this is a big opportunity for them, for the Vikings.

And I think even though they've got the young quarterback, I think with everything else that they've tried to surround him with, I think this has to feel like a pretty desperate year to win. So on both sides of the argument, I think you could say Green Bay because they've paid Jordan Love and the quarterback contract is so relevant to any conversation about this, but you could put on that same side. And look, they've had their coach for a long time.

And anytime you've had a coach for a long time, who's come up a little bit short over and over again, we were talking about this with Mike Tomlin that even if you're really good, they'll start to look around and go, okay, do we need somebody to get us over the top? And if Matt LaFleur missed the playoffs after an embarrassing first round exit last year and an 11 win team that played the NFC South and maybe wasn't really, uh, or I'm sorry, the AFC South and probably wasn't really a true contending team when they

got to the playoffs that I think their numbers were pumped up a little bit like everybody else's were only the Vikings were pumped up to 14 and the Lions were pumped up to 15 and the Packers were just sort of an average playoff team that got knocked down. And if Jordan Love doesn't take this magical step forward that is supposed to happen because of wide receivers, then you're looking at the coach, you're looking at the contract and you're going, uh, how do you escape this middle? So there's two different forms of this where they could get stuck in Kirk Viking land,

which means year after year, you're just kind of another team in the league that's pretty good. And that's a place you don't wanna be. Whereas the Vikings, if they lose, they're fine. If they lose in the first round of the playoffs, they're fine for 2026. However, you have the coach of the year, 14-win season,

you moved on from that quarterback, you made bold, bold plays around JJ McCarthy. So the pressure is on and I think this is my theory Manny of why so many people will say, hey, look, I mean, if they have an average season, that's okay. Well, I mean, one, it's logical to say McCarthy will be here for a long time and it's not the end of the world for his era. If they go nine and eight, that means he probably played OK. I also think it's a bit of a defense mechanism because of how long it's been

since the Vikings have been in this mode of the K. It's really time to go. It was time to go going into 2016 before Teddy Bridgewater got hurt. It was time to go heading into 2018 before that all fell apart. Since then, though, since then, how many seasons have you walked into where you've said, hey, this team is legit top to bottom. They've been built this way. Their coach this way, etc, etc, and they should have a serious

shot at it. I think it's a little bit of an uncomfortable place for Vikings fans to be because it's just been a while. Yeah. I defense mechanism was a great way to put it because I think it's. Natural for Vikings fans and I'll throw myself into this category too, of being so used to heartbreak that you just try to find find ways to sort of set yourself up for the inevitable disappointment.

So you try to convince yourself, well, you know, if they go nine and eight, yeah, well, that's all right, you know, because we've got the quarterback and if each quarterback plays well, then yeah, they're going to be fine. But I still keep going back to everything that they did every every move that they made says no this team should be able to contend now does that mean that it's that if they don't win the Super Bowl that it's just a massive disappointment no but I think you have to be legitimately in the conversation you have to be going into the pole season

thinking oh yeah this team can go to the Super Bowl this team can go to the have to be legitimately in the conversation. You have to be going into the pole season thinking, oh yeah, this team can go to the Super Bowl. This team can go to the Super Bowl and make it happen. If you end the season not feeling like that, then I think that in particular is a disappointment. And so I don't want to put myself in a position where, ah, well, if they go nine and eight and JJ McCarthy plays, okay, that's all right. Because I know what they did in this off season. They,

they went and got two really good defensive tackles who are 30 plus years old and Harrison Smith, this might be it for him. Like it's time. Let's, let's do it now. Jordan Mason, getting him in to give, you know, Aaron Jones, who's a really good running back, but a guy that we saw kind of wear down in the season last year, you went and got a guy to try and get the most out of Aaron Jones and keep him healthy for the entire season. So you made all of these moves to try and win right now. So the expectation should be there. And I think it's a really good place to be when you're there.

And I'll make a timber wolves comparison. I mean, how many years going into a season would we have said about the wolves? Who cares? I mean, they're not going to win. It's, you know, maybe at best they can sneak into the playoffs and then we'll see, et cetera, et cetera. And as soon as they make the Rudy go bear trade, this is kind of, to me, a big bang moment for when it's real that you're taking your big swing and for the Vikings, it's the minute that really the Gino Smith gets traded to the Raiders. And it's inevitable that Sam Darnold is going to the Seattle Seahawks.

When that happened, that's where it felt to me like this is the big bang of you're really going for it with JJ McCarthy. And if they had brought back Darnold, they still would have been in win now mode. In fact, it might've been even more pressure if they were in win now mode. But doing that was, oh, okay, this is not a, they take it slow type of off season.

They bring back everybody. They bring back all these veteran players around JJ McCarthy. That means to me, you believe in this way of going about it and there's pressure that goes along with that. It's just like the wolves though. Anthony Edwards is going to keep the Minnesota Timberwolves in the conversation no matter what they do or who they trade or who they acquire. But these last two years have been big time win now around Anthony Edwards. And I think of that as this year and next year for the Vikings is that this group will eventually break up in a

couple of years there's no way around it so it is chips to the middle of the table and having a real legitimate chance to do it I think puts them ahead of some of the other teams that could have been on our list so Manny this has been fun this is the win now offseason special with Manny Hill Is there is what has been on your mind by the way just before we we wrap up the conversation if you guys want to Jump in with some questions. I'll stick around and answer questions as well If you want I got some time Sun doesn't go down to like nine o'clock now So I could still hit golf balls in the backyard in my gulf net

before the Sun goes down. So what is it that you've been thinking about during this dead time? Like post mini camp, getting ready for training camp, what's on your mind? I'm just kind of chopping at the bit, especially since the Wolf season ended a couple of weeks ago on the conference finals. You know, the twins, their season has kind of gone down the,

down the drain with the injuries and it's just not, it's not good right now, especially after this past weekend. Oh my God, that was bad. Um, so now we're kind of going into those dog days of summer and I'm just kinda, when you, when you texted me today and said, hey, let's pod tonight, I was like, it got me back into the mood of like, I'm ready for training camp, man. I'm ready for this team to really see everything that they've done, all the moves that they've made.

You know, getting Donovan Jackson in the first round, I'm ready to see him sort of fit in on this offensive line and seeing what that unit looks like and protecting JJ McCarthy. Like I'm, I'm ready. It's now it's kind of like, is the training camp yet? The training camp yet? The training camp yet? So that's kind of what's been on my mind now the last, the last couple of days for sure. I've been thinking also about that, that we still have almost an entire month until training camp, which allows us to have fun conversations like this one,

but also makes me anxious to get there as well. And about how the pre-season has degraded over the years to almost, Hey, if you're going to be selling insurance after this, you get to play in the pre-season game. So your family can see you and you get a Jersey that you can hang up in your spare room, but you're never playing a game for the Minnesota Vikings. That's kind of what preseason has become. And that might be different this year, depending on how much they want JJ to play. I think he should be playing in at least two of those games, which then ramps up the attention.

And I don't know if he will because there's the joint practices and they've always treated those like a game or preseason game, but I think he should be in some of these preseason games, which all of a sudden snaps us back to, okay, well, that means that other guys who are relevant are going to be around him and you get to see some real players here. And it's been quite a while since we had preseason action where we're talking about, Hey, you know what, what's it going to do? What's the snap count going to be? What's it really going to look like? It's mostly then the one year, what year was it? It was 2022

where fans took their programs and made them into paper airplanes and we're just throwing them down and onto the field. Oh, listen, I've been to play any of Vikings preseason games where that was going on. And trust me, I've been to a lot of those where, yeah, I made my share of paper airplanes out of the out of the program over the years, especially in my younger days. Some gifted paper airplane artists were really taking over the stadium that night. And it's just felt like why even bother and now the things you know I think that there's just a lot of battles that are going to be determined at least in part because of those preseason games the outside

linebackers the backup you know guys like Bo Richter gay Murphy who don't have a lot of experience the secondary players like Dwight McCluth like that we could go down the list the kick returning and part returning battles, which might matter this year more than ever. These are going to be relevant in preseason because they're not something that you can really practice at full speed. And like now it matters. Uh, so there's, there's a lot to get to and we've got a little time before that.

Hopefully you and I can do another podcast again before then. But until then, Manny, I appreciate your time and we'll see you at whatever links game we attend together. So thank you. There'll be a few more of those for sure. There will, there will. The one loss links rolling as they so often do. Thank you, Manny. You got it, buddy.

All right, good stuff. That was a fun conversation. I love that. I love looking around the league and saying like who needs it? Whose situation is desperate? Who's freaking out this off season? Because if they don't win, they're in so much trouble. That's one of my favorite conversations to have and we all like doing this now. Putting ourselves in the front office seat and we were able to do that for an hour.

So I appreciate Manny and all of his time. Let's see what you guys got here for questions, comments, throw your questions, anything on the table about the Vikings NFL or anything you want to respond to with what we said over the last hour or so about these teams and their spots in the NFL 2025. So fire it up into the comment section and we'll have a good chat. Aaron says, uh, what Detroit, uh, what Detroit's new center doesn't running game is going to take a hit. Yeah. The Frank rag now retirement is absolutely enormous for that team. And it's not just him, but also losing Kevin Zeitler as well.

When you go back to last year, when you're talking about Kevin Zeitler and Frank Ragnow, you're talking about two of the top five players at their positions by PFF last season in 2024, just being off the team. Now, how can they be the same with that? And Jamir Gibbs, there's not too many players that average that yards per carry that continue it even as great as Jamir Gibbs is. Do they put more on his shoulders? Does their blocking struggle more and they have more trouble dominating the same exact way? And if they drift back for a year offensively resetting their offensive line, then what happens?

And the other thing is too about that Detroit offensive line is that Jared Goff has been one of the players with the biggest gaps in the NFL over the years in clean pocket and pressured performance. One of the biggest gaps of any quarterback when he's clean, he is marvelous. And remember the year that they traded him in Los Angeles to Detroit, they had a very bad offensive line. They got a bunch of injuries. It fell apart and all of a sudden he was not the same Jared golf that could happen. And then there's going to be so much pressure on Detroit to fix that and go forward from there.

So that team does have a ton of pressure on it to basically prove that their window didn't shut last year when they lost to the Washington commanders, but that they're very, very talented though. I still think that's a playoff team. I still think it's a dangerous team. Can you, if their O line does not come together though, can you run through the playoffs without a great O line?

I think we found out from the Vikings last year that you probably can, unless you have an absolutely freakish defense and they might, they might. I actually do think there's room for improvement in their defense. Aaron Glenn did a good job last year, but overall was not someone that blew my mind with schematics and they might find somebody who does. Nick says, outside of JJ McCarthy,

which new starter is most vital to the success of the team this year and why is it our new center? Well, Ryan Kelly is a great pick and I might have gone with Ryan Kelly myself because you are talking about someone who is managing the young quarterback. And with the Vikings under Garrett Bradbury, the thing that was always on our mind when he was the center was, okay, who's the opposing defensive tackle and is he going to steamroll Garrett Bradbury?

And at times that did happen, but I never felt like they were great at dealing with stunts, twists, blitzes, things like that. Free runner was set a lot on this podcast while Garrett Bradbury was the center. I think he was a good leader and I think he was a smart guy, but there's something with Ryan Kelly where he is in command. Like you spend a little time talking to that dude and you get it right away. Okay. There is no question about who is running this offensive line and Kelly has just seen so much over his career.

Is he ever so slightly better at communicating with the other offensive linemen and the better you have on the interior to work with as that communicator. That was one thing about Bradbury that I always want to give him is that he was always working with somebody new. And most of the time that person was a former tackle who was drafted in the sixth round or a backup with the jets that shows up or a backup with the bears that shows up and Garrett Bradbury has to work with them as opposed to being kind of helped out by his right and left guards.

And in this case, now you have a first round talent and a $17 million guard. There's a lot to work with for Ryan Kelly, but he is in command of that offensive line and that is a huge asset for them. I do think that that's a really good pick for which is most vital to the success. I might toss out there that Jordan Mason could be on this list. If you know, with Alan Hargrave, when you sign both of them, if one doesn't work out, but the other one does, well, that's great. Then you've got interior pressure from that one guy.

But with Jordan Mason, allowing Aaron Jones to not have to run the ball 250 times and giving them a presence offensively, this is something that clearly Kevin O'Connell wanted that he wanted to have a much better, is it physical presence is a way to put it, play style is what he uses intimidation elements to the offense. You were intimidated if you're playing the Vikings last year by route combinations, downfield passing, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison.

You're intimidated by that, but you weren't ever concerned if the Vikings were in third and two that they were just going to plow your face in. Where with Jordan Mason there is more concern about a face plowing. With Jordan Mason he gives them a toughness element that they were missing last year to go along with a toughness element that's improved in the interior offensive line. And if you just took last year where the Vikings were a top 10 offense and they were very good, but think about that Detroit game. And I saw a recent interview, Mike Silver and Sam Darnold, where Darnold said

that they, hey, we laid an egg as an offense. And of course, Sam Darnold didn't throw anybody under the bus or whatever else. But think about that game in Detroit week 18. If Jordan Mason will fries Donovan Jackson, Ryan Kelly are on that team. They just run the football in like three times, right? It's a completely different football game. If they could have just finished those drives, finish some third downs in short. And with Jordan Mason, he gives them something that they have not had in how long. I mean, when was the last time it's probably Delvin cook early in his

career where the other team was saying, man, I hope they don't give that to the ball to that guy because he's going to run us over. Uh, that's really the last time. And Delvin cooks last year. That was good in Minnesota was 2021 in the first half of the season. Yeah, that's, that's the last time. So now they have that again, he could end up being one of the biggest pieces because of the trickle down effect of that, even if he runs for 650 yards, but he gets those tough short yardage situations and he scores five or six touchdowns and he converts third downs in one and

Also, you get up ten points in the fourth you get Jordan Mason in the game You get a couple first downs you win, you know, it's more than the fantasy stats when it comes to him Derek says who do you think will be the most impactful player on offense outside of Jefferson and JJ McCarthy I Guess you could go two different ways on this. I mean, the most impactful player is Christian Derisaw. I think we saw that last year. So that would be my answer.

Usually we're thinking of weapons, but I think you could survive a couple of games without Addison. They did it last year. I think you can survive some games without Hawkinson. They did it last year. They've even survived some games without Jefferson, but you can't just throw in anybody at left tackle like the drop-off to the next best guy if TJ Hockinson misses a week you play Josh Oliver and you feel pretty good about it even with Jefferson now You can't miss a lot of time with him

But even if he misses a game and Jordan Addison plays as wide receiver one and Naylor is wide receiver to like, you go, okay, you can get by on that with the number of weapons you have. You can't miss Christian Derris off for five, six weeks. And we really saw last year how. Kim Robinson did a good job when he first arrived, but the more it went along, the more that position got exposed. And it was a reminder. Oh yeah.

That's what it used to look like. It left tackle all the time for the Minnesota Vikings offense. Darasaw is the most impactful player because he is a top three run offensive tackle. He is an elite pass blocking offensive tackle. So you're talking about a rookie quarterback having security in the pocket because of his left tackle and then the running game. If you go to that left side and you have Donovan Jackson, one of the better athletes at his position instantly and Christian Derriss on maybe you throw Josh Oliver over there. That's pretty that's pretty good.

That's something you can really work with. Now, if it was just in school for an extended period of time, he can play a little, but it's not the impact of the left tackle who is elite. So I think I would pick him as far as underrated impacts. I think that's what we want to find out in training camp is, is there somebody on this offense who is going to have an underrated impact? Is it Rondale Moore? Is it Ty Felton? This year's Vikings roster kind of gives us options

for that. Is it Gavin Bartholomew or Ben Urasek or somebody like that who could step into a role and potentially handle more than we would have expected? Because my expectation right now of Rondale Moore, we'll see if he even makes the team. That type of player has not really thrived for the Vikings over the years.

The Kendall Wright, the Albert Wilson, the Tajay Sharp, that deep in the weeds, cheap wide receiver who once upon a time did something for somebody else. We haven't seen a whole lot of success with that, but maybe it's Ron Elmore and Ty Felton. My expectation right now is that Ty Felton doesn't play a whole lot in year one as he develops behind Jalen Naylor.

And then in year two, that he'll get a lot more opportunity, but does he kind of force them to do that? Uh, Bob, maybe being snarky, maybe not. Are we trading another fifth round pick for cam acres? It's, it's never, it's never over with camers and Kevin O'Connell. You have to find somebody that looks at you the way that O'Connell looks at Cam Akers and talks about you the way that he talks about Cam Akers. Akers was good for them last year.

And if they don't really buy into Ty Chandler, it's possible. But I think that the Akers thing probably ended when they decided to go get Jordan Mason. If you are cam makers, if you're his agent and you're advising him, would you say, Oh yeah, go back to a team that has an RB one and RB one a, and you'll sit on the bench and watch. I mean, if you're acres, you average four and a half yards of carry. You proved to be healthy last year. You're looking for a place where you could be one a or one B to somebody else.

So they've got Camara. Who else do they have in New Orleans? He can be that guy. Camara sometimes gets banged up. I don't know that you'll be seeing cam makers, but I also am not entirely sure you're going to be seeing Ty Chandler or not. Trent says, how often do you think that teams are going to kick into the end zone being that the ball goes to the 35. Ooh, that's a great question. I'm going to say that it's not that often.

That is a huge penalty to pay to kick it into the end zone. At the average kick return last year, I just looked this up the other day. And there's a little bit of a tweak for the dynamic kickoff rules, but I think it was around 28 yards was what the dynamic kickoff rules, but I think it was around 28 yards was what the average kick return was last year. That is a big difference. That's almost an entire first down. If the average kickoff is only a return to the 27 or 28 yard line, then you got to take

the odds that you make a mistake and give up a big return. You just kind of have to take that with the average gain being a lot better. And then there's also, if you're kicking off, there's the possibility of a fumble. There's a possibility of a holding penalty, which seems to happen a lot on special teams. It's going to be now a lot better to kick off than it is to kick a touchback. I would only be talking about kicking touchbacks when you're up, I don't know, 21 points in the third quarter. Hey, don't give them any spark. Make them get all the way, you know, 65 yards to get back in this football game.

It will be interesting to see how different teams handle this though, because the Vikings last year, they just opted out. They wanted nothing to do with the kickoff last year I think they had the second least or fourth least kickoff returns and they were kicking out of the back of the end zone almost every time like Kevin O'Connell's like no no no no no and part of that was because they were ahead all the time so why would you be returning kicks if you were leading all the time you probably wouldn't want to take any

risk when it came to that, but I think it's going to be a really big change. Maybe so big that we're laughing at it or calling it ridiculous halfway through the season. But every once in a while, when I watch old games, I think about how big kick returns used to be as a part of the NFL. And you'll see the stats when somebody kicks off, watch an old game. It'll be like, you know, Pat summer all or Dick Stockton calling the game and here's Mitch burger kicking off. Uh, burgers had a good year with, uh, kickoffs. He's got 10 touchbacks on 70 kickoffs or something. And it'd be like, what?

And that's just how it used to be. So this is kind of a return to that, but also the 35 as opposed to the 20 yard line is a crazy difference The NFL has made it clear they want that play back in the league Dusty says hopefully this line can block enough in obvious situations when the other team knew we had to pass or knew we were Likely running we were getting destroyed. I Mean last year's offensive line. This was a bit of a debate throughout the season. Last year's offensive line through, I think about 13 weeks is one of the better offensive lines in the NFL. And early in the season when Darasaw is

healthy, they were able to run just fine in almost any situation, except for the short yardage stuff. But Aaron Jones was averaging five yards of carry. They were setting up their play actions by running the ball. And even in obvious passing situations, they were mostly protecting okay. I mean, some sacks and sometimes Sam Darnold would just run backward for no reason, but mostly pretty good.

It was really at the end of the season when they played Arizona and then everybody realized, oh, they can't pick up blitzes or stunts or twists or anything. So we're just going to run that at them over and over and over again. That's why Ryan Kelly could be so enormous for this team because that was a major problem for them. And JJ McCarthy is going to have to deal with that too and understand. I don't know that Sam Darnold pre snap was as good as some other quarterbacks in the league, uh, whether it was him or whether it was the

offensive line, whoever's problem it was, it would remain as a problem. And once teams started doing that, they found the Achilles heel and then it fell apart and that's where you're talking about. They got destroyed. They really only truly got destroyed in the last two weeks of the season. But that was when those teams had enough on paper, enough film, enough data to say, we know exactly how to take care of your offensive line. And the Lions and the Rams were able to do that.

And in that interview with Mike Silver, I think Arnold said something like the Rams did the same stuff that the Lions did to us. We didn't resolve it, and they ended up out of the playoffs. So the offensive line change could change everything for the Minnesota Vikings in general. All right, great stuff. Good questions, guys.

Really appreciate all of the time, and had a great time, as always, with Manny Hill. So on Thursday, we'll be back and we'll do Q and A then, we'll see what else comes up. But my plan on Thursday is to continue the countdown of the most interesting players in Vikings training camp. Last time I got to number 16, I'm counting down 25 since we've got plenty of time.

So number 15 through 11 on Thursday night. And I'm also gonna start getting into those bold predictions. Every summer I try to do 50 bold predictions for the upcoming season and we have fun with those. Some are scary, right? And some are hilariously wrong. So I wanna get to that as well,

but your questions drive the show. So I really appreciate all of those tonight again. So thanks again everyone for watching slash listening. Make sure you go check out the newsletter by the way, purple insider dot football. Great time to sign up over there and we will catch you all later. Football.