Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings and Chargers basically the same team?

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Chargers reporter Daniel Popper of The Athletic joins the show to preview the Thursday Night Football contest between Los Angeles and Minnesota and why he thinks the Vikings can succeed on the ground. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, presented by Fandul. Matthew Collar here and returning to the show every time we have an opportunity to talk with Daniel Popper of the Athletic. We're going to do it, and we've got to match up Thursday night between two teams whose fans are not all that pleased with the results thus far. Daniel, why don't we just start with that? I feel like the Vikings and Chargers, always and forever, are looking in the mirror at each other. It's, hey, you've got a lot of good players, but you can't quite get over the hump. Hey, you've got a lot of good players and can't quite get over the hump. And the fan bases have grown restless and we're both told going into this year,

this year is your year, my friend, and it has not quite been that way. is it entirely just injuries that have ravaged this Chargers team to make them not what we expected them to be or what they look like in the first couple weeks or is there more to the story, Mr. Popper? Yeah. Well, first off, thanks for having me. Second off, it is an ongoing Spider-Man meme between the Vikings and Chargers and it always will be.

I think with this team, you have to start with the injuries, particularly at tackle, you know, at a point in the game on Sunday, they had their sixth and seventh string tackles playing in the football game. Wow. So yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty bad, you know, and you go back to training camp, Roshan Slater, they're starting left tackle a week after they gave him a market setting, 100 plus million dollar extension. He ruptures his betelor tendon on a freak play in a practice. Joe Alt moved to left tackle. He's been out with a high ankle sprain, Trey Pipkins, who has supposed to be their swing tackle, experienced that right tackle. He goes in. He's been out with a knee injury. Jamari Salier, their fourth tackle's been out with a knee injury. They traded for Austin

Deculus from the Texans. He's been starting at left tackle. He got hurt and had an ankle injury in Sunday's loss. And so it's, it's rough. They're starting Bobby Hart at right tackle. You know, two weeks ago, they started him and he hadn't started a game since 2021. So obviously, when you're dealing with that kind of situation at tackle, it's going to be difficult for you to you know, win games on offense. They were able to do it against the dolphins because the dolphins can't stop anybody and their run defense is atrocious, but they went up against one of the best teams in football in the Colts, and that's a different story.

I think when you go to defense, the issues stretch a little bit beyond injuries. I have some concerns about the way they're playing fundamentally. Some of the mistakes they're making communication errors in the back end, alignment issues up front. I don't think they're playing with the necessary violence. or physicality along the front. You can pin some of that on injuries. You know, Khalil Mack has been out since week two.

He returned on Sunday against the Colts, but only played 12 snaps, very, very limited only on pass downs and wasn't really impactful in the run game. They've been missing him. I think people overlook how important he is as a run defender. They're really struggling to stop the run right now. Derwin James has been playing through a wrist injury. Dan Henley, their ascending linebacker suffered through a severe illness,

earlier this season. He played through it, but was in the hospital, and he has not been the same player. So some of it is injuries, but defensively, it just feels like they're not as connected as a unit as they were last season. Last year, obviously, Jesse Minter turned this into one of the best defenses in football. Some of that was the schedule they were playing, but the defensive issues are pretty concerning at this point. And Shane Stuyke can, you know, carve them up in that, you know, blowout loss on Sunday. Well, let's circle back to the defense in a little bit. But on the offensive side, when you get to that number of backup offensive linemen, as we got to see earlier this year, I think the Vikings were leading the league in the number of combinations of

offensive linemen finally got back to full health this week. But we saw where you're talking about, oh, an undrafted free agent guy who made the team and was a good story out of camp, but I don't think you want him starting against the Browns. And just in school, a backup swing tackle playing right tackle for a while and then left tackle against Miles Garrett in the same game like these things will eventually impact you on offense. But I feel like the entirety of the time that we've known each other, we've been talking about what Justin Herbert really is as a quarterback and where the ceiling is versus where the actual production is. And I have called him Kirkbert from time to time. I knew you were going to say it. I knew you were going to say it. It wouldn't be a podcast with the two

of us unless you brought up Kirkbert. I'm just saying that it's a very Kirkbirdian season of like a lot of really good statistics. The win loss record is kind of is what it is. And the, you know, the highlights are also kind of matched with some of the low lights. But I do feel like this is a little bit unfair to try to judge him so far this season because of the circumstance they've been put in because not only all of those offensive linemen getting hurt has a major impact. I mean, we see one backup offensive lineman for the Vikings, and the Eagles just attacked it over and over and over and over again and sacked Carson Wentz and caused the pick six. You saw it in the playoffs when you have a mismatch there, what the Texans defensive line was able to do to Justin Herbert and even Patrick

Mahomes against the Eagles. No quarterback can just be pressured constantly and instantly and be magic and win all the games. So I was actually going to say that I feel like it's unfair to judge and call him Kirkbert so far this season, especially when you lose O'Mary and Hampton right off the bat as well. And now you're, and Najee Harris. And now you're talking about playing third string running backs to go along with that in an offense that likes to build off of the run game. Yeah. I think he's been fantastic this season. I really do. Now, you know, this past week against the Colts, he had a couple tough turnovers in the red zone, trying to fit a ball into Quentin Johnston. Nick Cross makes a tremendous play there. And he's had a couple tipped ball

interceptions, one in the commanders game, one in the Giants game, one against the Colts. So the interception numbers are up, but he threw 55 times in that game. They were down 20 to three in the second quarter. It's like they basically were asking him to drop back with, you know, six and seven string tackles and try and win the game. And he threw for 420 yards. And, you know, like made it a game at the end, you know, he converted two fourth downs on the final offensive possession and they had a 21 play drive that didn't end in points it was the first time since 2007 first time since i looked this up because i'm a sicko but first time since 2007 with the new orleans saints where a play of a drive of at least 21 plays didn't end in points

and that one was a blocked field goal that was not a turnover on down so that kind of puts in perspective like what exactly he's doing i think he's playing some of the best football of his career honestly. I mean, he really is dialed in in terms of fitting the ball into tight windows, being aggressive, pushing it down field, using what has turned into a strength of the team, which is this group of receivers. You know, Keenan Allen, Ladd-McConkie, Quentin Johnson, Trey Harris, the rookie has looked good at times. I just think that, you know, everything's crumbling around him, you know, and the offensive line is a huge issue. He's taking a bunch of hits. There's a bunch of pressure, and he's still been able to create. And you go back to the wins they've had.

He's had huge plays at the end of those games, which has always been the knock on Justin Herbert. He's always not clutch. He's not clutch, which is ridiculous. The numbers point you elsewhere, obviously. But he had a huge scramble in that Chiefs game to close that one out in Brazil. He had the throw to Keenan Allen after, you know, avoiding a hit from Zach Allen,

290 pound defensive lineman to win that Broncos game. He had a, you know, game-winning drive against the dolphins where he avoids two rushers and hits Ladd McConkey in the flat. You know, so I feel like he's. playing great. I just feel like the defense has been very poor. The protection has not been good enough. And, you know, now down to running backs. The running game, running game has been inconsistent as well. So it's hard for me to put it on him. Obviously, you know, the national narratives are going to turn against him as soon as they get an opportunity to. Just watch the

games. That would be my suggestion. And anybody that watches the games would tell you that he's playing an extremely high level. But this is also why he's Kirkbert, because Kirk is really good. and it would always be that like is he clutch if he had a game especially on national TV if he didn't come through on the final drive then everybody would say that and oftentimes when kirk was the quarterback of the Vikings it was some sort of flaw whether it was the offensive line the defense fell apart the scheme didn't fit for him in 2018 it was always just sort of a little bit short of what they needed to get him over the hump and that's how it's always felt with Justin Herbert. And then when you said down 20 to three and put up 400 yards,

I was just all sorts of triggered for my time with cousins. But the point is that the guy is a really good quarterback just as cousins was. But the franchise has not been able to have it all come together all at the same time. But one area, I feel like they have made massive improvements from a couple years ago in the last few years is with the weapons. And even Arronday Gadsden, who was on our radar a little bit when we were talking tight end three back when we were young at draft time. We've aged significantly since then. But Arronday Gadsden was a wide receiver turned tight end, son of Arronday Gadsden, who is

if you're old, you remember him playing, which is great for me. But, you know, I think that they really do, you know, McConkey is one of the best route runners. Quinton Johnson has really come along as a player who's developed over the last couple of years. and if you have had a time to peek at any of the Vikings Eagles film, I think you will understand that covering top-notch wide receivers is not the forte. And then it's Halloween time. Nobody's scarier for the Minnesota Vikings than Keenan Allen.

Will he just retire at some point? Or was he like, oh, the Vikings are on the schedule? I'm joining the Chargers because I know I'm going to get 18 catches or something. Like this is where the Vikings, though they can pressure the quarterback, should be concerned with the Chargers. that they have not had this level of weapons, I think, in any recent game between these two teams. If you guys have been wearing hats or trying different haircuts in order to cover up for your hair loss, trust me, I totally feel you. And maybe you've tried different hair loss

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Excuse me, coming out of the Houston game, right? Like obviously you talked about the mismatch up front. They got their butts beat, you know, along the line of scrimmage. But they also didn't really have weapons for Herbert in terms of answers when that pressure came. And it was Ladd-McConkie who had 197 yards and no one else really showed up. And so they went out in the offseason. And they said, okay, we can go two ways here. We can invest all these resources in trying to build the offensive line or we can try and spread most of it into the weaponry and try and improve there.

And that's what they did. You know, they brought Keenan Allen back. They drafted Trey Harris. They drafted Keanu Lambert Smith. they drafted a Ronde Gadsden. And the way they're solving the problem right now is getting into a lot of quick game. And they have receivers that can win in that area, right?

Like Ladd McConkey's really good in the short to intermediate. Keenan Allen is one of the best to ever do it in that area of the field. And it's a reason why they've been able to move the ball despite having, you know, fifth and sixth string tackles, six and seventh string tackles in the game, a lot of quick outs. And Gadsden's been involved in that. You know, the Dolphins game, he was huge. He fumbled early in that game, but a lot of his production came on little flat routes.

where they're just getting into him a quick game and letting him run. And so, you know, the offensive line issues are real. The problem is if you get into a bad game script, it's hard to play the way they want to play. Like right now, the ideal game script is that you're either leading or in a tight game and you can run the ball. You can get into bootleg looks. You can get into the screen game. You can get into quick game, you know, a lot of three step drops, getting the ball out. And that's going to help your offensive line.

And then when you want to push the ball down field, five to six times a game, you max protect it, you get seven, eight guys in protection and, you know, you're able to push it to lad or push it to Quentin Johnson in those situations. The Colts game is what could go wrong, right? Where like if you, if your defense is leaky and you give up a bunch of points early and you're playing from behind, you have no choice but to drop back. And then your weaponry might not be able to save you because the protection is not going to hold up. And that's the issue for the offense right now. It's why the defense simply just has to play better.

like they got two stops they forced two punts and nine possessions that's just not going to work with the way the offense is currently constructed so if they stay on game script the weapons are a huge help and they can play the way that they want to play because of how they've built this thing out if the game script goes in the opposite direction the weapons aren't going to save them because the offensive line has been so leaky and on top of that the tackles are obviously injured but they didn't do a whole lot to improve their interior they signed mackay beckton and that was it and they've rolled the same guys back in zion johnson bradley bozeman now zion has been better i've seen a a little bit more consistency from him. But Bradley Bozeman is having a rough season. And it just sort of is what it is. And the whole idea behind Bradley Bozeman was, okay, you're going to lose something in pass protection. But when we can get him moving forward, get him on double teams,

get him on downhill runs, he can create movement there. And he's been bad in that area as well. And the other part of Bradley Bozeman is he's a leader, he's experience, he's seen a lot of football, and you're having all these communication issues at the line as well and some of these blitz is identifying stuff.

And so across the board, he hasn't been very good. They were hoping that with the best tackle duo in the league in Roshan Slater and Joe Alt, that they were going to be able to mask some of the issues on the interior. And that plan has obviously not materialized. Boy, you said looking in the mirror, Spider-Man meme, it's all the same stuff, except for, you know, the Vikings tried. The Vikings did try.

They did. They did. Ryan Kelly, you know, Will Fries, they drafted Donovan Jackson. Like, they at least tried. They weren't like, let's just run it back, you know. But that's how. it's been with the injuries that have caused this sort of thing. And the Vikings' offensive line is in a much better spot now. But even when you're talking about the center

position and now I think if you're weak at center, you can't really hide that because teams love to rush over the middle, lots of stunts and lots of twists and stuff that are going to put pressure on that. And the Vikings are having to play a backup at center and just getting smoked. But I was really thinking about what you're talking about with the game script and how it has to go because the Vikings built their defense to play from ahead. They went and got Jonathan Allen and Jvon Hargrave and the idea was that they'll be pinning their ears back after the second quarter because the offense is going to get them ahead and they're going to rush the passer.

And yet they've played 18 out of their 24 quarters from behind, which then you can't do the same stuff. And then also the other team and I really struck me with the Eagles this week. The other team when they're playing from ahead can be like, you know, why don't we just take a shot here. Why don't we just throw the ball 40 yards down the field and see what happens because if we don't hit on it, that's okay. We're up by two scores anyway and Philly hit on a bunch of those. And I think at least in this matchup where the Vikings are pretty good is rallying to tackle when guys catch the ball underneath. So that's going to be a factor

here because you could see another, I mean, with Hertz and Aaron Rogers, the two good quarterbacks they've played, they're completing like 90% of their passes. And I feel like you could see the exact same thing here because the Vikings are concerned about their one-on-one coverages versus good receivers. So they're playing up over the top, trying to keep everything in front of them. And I think Justin Herbert's the right kind of quarterback to be like, okay, if you want to do that, we can do that. And then the dink and dunk game and the 21 play drive, we could see the Vikings defense getting

pretty worn down by this team. But can they run now or was that just entirely Miami? Yeah, it's, it's tough. because of the way the game script went. Yeah. You know, they only got 10 runs off in the game on design rushes to running backs. It's probably somewhere in the middle. I know no one wants to hear that because everyone wants the take to be on one side of the

spectrum or the other. I saw some decent stuff in that Dolphins game. The dolphins are bad, bad, bad, bad defending the run, especially on the interior. So if you can't run against them, you're not going to be able to run against anybody. You know, Kamani Vidal, excuse me. I think has improved, particularly as a past protector. And it wasn't all, like, yards before contact, huge holes in that Dolphins game. He did a little bit of creating.

But their vision for this running game was Omari and Hampton and Najee Harris. And with both of those guys out, it's just not going to be the same. And so, I mean, you know, Kamani had nine carries for 20 yards against the Colts. A lot of that is game script and they had to throw it. Um, so we'll see if they're, if they're able to run it. I still think they're going to end up trading for a running back. Um, you know, I just don't know if they can trust Vidal. I don't know exactly when Omar and Hanton is going to be back.

Even when Hampton does come back, they really believe in a two back system. And there are some intriguing names available in terms of running back. Um, you know, Vidal's going to have an opportunity, but, you know, what I wrote after that Dolphins game was he's got a stack some games together here. Like, it's not going to be like, oh, he runs well against the dolphin. and all of a sudden they feel good about where they're at. And, you know, he was not able to follow up that performance with any sort of productivity against the Colts.

So he's the guy right now. But I think before the trade deadline hits, they're going to try and find a piece there to, you know, create the type of back room that they were sort of envisioning entering the season or something close to it. So I want to ask you one question about the defense, then I want to go back and forth with some questions. Because I want to know if this defense can cover,

Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison. The funny thing about the Philadelphia Eagles game is that they couldn't. Those guys were open all game. Addison torched the Eagles and what it came down to is the Vikings could not finish in the red zone. One for six. Not sure I've seen one for six in the red zone. That was pretty

impressively bad. Wents missing throws that didn't even give Justin Jefferson a chance down the field. Wentz missing T.J. Hawkinson open in the end zone, leaving it up to the referees to side whether it was a catch or not when he was wide open. But if you leave them open enough and you give Carson Wentz any sort of time, he can get the ball there. The receivers will be open. So is it a matter of just not putting enough pressure on quarterbacks for the

Chargers defense so far? Or is it a coverage issue? Yeah. So I mean, the way the scheme is structured and the system is structured, they play a ton of zone coverage. I think like in a perfect world. If Jesse Minter got to handpick his players on the back end, he would play a lot more man. Yep. That sounds familiar. You can just be stickier in those situations. He does not have the horses to play man. And as a result, since he's taken over as defensive coordinator to start the 2024 season, they've played less man coverage than anyone in the league. So the way they win on the back end is a lot of different zone coverages and a lot of pre-snap disguised. they'll show single high rotate to too high they'll play quarters out of it they'll play cover six

out of it they'll play cover two out of it they'll rotate the edge rusher into the flat in certain cover two looks they'll play you know three high safeties in a cover two look with you know the middle safety playing you know middle of the field runner but already in position the deep part of the field so they'll do a lot of stuff like that that's how they try to win but what i've seen is a unit that's just not as put together in terms of being in the right spots at the right time you know you talk about the the colts game for example you know the number one thing i wrote in my scouting report heading report heading into that game all right number one play action team in the league and they are going to get daniel jones on the move yep and they are going to scheme up ways to

get tyler warren open off those play action boot looks and it's a lot of leak routes whether he's into chip and leaking to the flat or into chip and leaking on a crosser they did it all the time on film the chargers give up two explosive plays to tyler warren off blue leg action into the flat both times tyler warren is wide open and you had two different coverages one was a cover three look where linebacker bit on the fake and didn't get to his responsibility in the flat and the other one was a man coverage look where they tried to get derwin james on tyler warren another heavy play action with a bunch of stuff going on at the line of scrimmage and two guys go with alec pierce there's some bites on the play action fake and warren's wide open again two 29 yard games

into the flat and like that's the kind of stuff you're talking about where the call's not necessarily poor but guys aren't executing they're not in the right spot and I you know talking to Jesse Minter this week at his press conference he made a good point you know the defense is sort of unraveling here they can't string together together any sort of consistent play as a result players are over eager to make plays to change the momentum and as a result you get out of position because you're driving down a line of scrimmage to shoot a gap and make a TFL in the run game. All of a sudden, there's Daniel Jones sprinting to the right and your assignment's been blown. And it's just been a lot of that kind of stuff this year where structurally, like I don't

think it's something where teams have figured out their rules are figured out their scheme. I just don't think they're playing the scheme with the same level of execution as they did last year. And so that's why early on when we were talking about it, I'm not like, oh, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's not the injuries because you have to at least put a little bit of that on it. But some of these guys that they were expecting to take huge jumps and be star level players just haven't been that. You know, Dan Henley hasn't been that. They were hoping one of these young corners stepped up and sort of took that mantle. And, you know, there's been mistakes across the board, whether you're talking about Cam Hart or Tar Heed Still or any of these young guys that were performing last year.

So it'll be an opportunity. I think the big thing is, you know, Ken Carr, and Wentz, drop back there and read it out, you know, is he going to be able to diagnose some of these disguises and can the chargers buy an extra count with some of their disguises? So even if those guys are running free, they'll have time to recover and close down windows. Got a stat for you here that I'm sure the chargers have taken note of. When Carson Wentz has not been blitzed, he is averaging almost eight yards per pass attempt, 66.1 pff grade, which is okay. When he has been blitzed, he has a 38 PFF grade under seven yards per attempt, almost 50% completion percentage for turnover worthy plays.

I'm going to guess that the chargers are going to decide to add a little bit of extra pressure here because it's pretty clear from what we saw against Philadelphia. They sent a simulated pressure where he threw the pick six, but one guy comes through and he panics. And I think part of it is Carson Wentz panics. And at the time we're, recording this. We're assuming Carson Wentz is starting. If he's not, then like, well, JJ McCarthy's had some of these same problems and they're probably going to have the same game

plan against them. But that's where I feel like whether it's McCarthy or Wence, the main thing that has thrown Vikings quarterbacks completely awry is when extra pressure or simulated pressures or different looks are coming. Because even if you go back to the Atlanta game with McCarthy, all day long, Atlanta has turned in one to one of the most blitz happy teams. in the entire NFL, and the Vikings just simply have not made them pay. That's where I think this could come down to the run game because Vikings fans have pounded the table for years. Maybe media has mentioned it from time to time about sticking with the run and it's not really something that, you know, Kevin O'Connell tends to do.

Even in the red zone when they're one for six and struggling in the red zone, they're still having Carson Went to throw three straight times after second and one. that's not really what you want to be doing. So I think if the chargers can force them into those past situations, we know they're not going to stick with the run. Like they'll move away from it and then you can start sending the heat. Yeah, but this is a getable defense in the run game. Like they are not playing with enough physicality in run defense right now.

They're getting blown off the ball in the interior. They cannot set an edge. Now maybe Kulamak is able to go from 12 snaps to 30. snaps and he's playing more rundowns and he solves a lot of their problems, but you can get after this team on the ground. And I think, you know, part of it's structurally how they play. There's, it's so many too high structures pre-snap. They're playing with a ton of light boxes. They've always played this way. Um, but they are different from a personnel standpoint, you know, like you can play like 60% light boxes. If you have dudes on the interior that are going to be

disruptive or at least be able to consistently take on double teams the guy last year for them that was able to do that was puna ford they let him walk in free agency and kind of piece this thing together brought back to your tart who's been playing really well you know they brought into shan hand who's on i are now um they drafted jimari called well but they're missing puna ford and it's been you know turned into an even more glaring hole with calilla mack out so you know i guarantee you that kevin o'connell is looking at the way this team is defending the run and looking as chops. And that's where I would start if I was game planning against this team.

Because what you don't want to do is get away from the run, get into these longer downs and distances and allow these disguises to come to life and get into some of the stuff you're talking about. Because while they don't blitz a lot, they will dial up some pretty diabolical sim pressures and trap coverages off, you know, blitzes out of the slot and different things like that where you're sort of forcing the quarterback to throw back into the blitz. But you have a coverage player there that's sinking

down to effectively force that throw and pick it off. Um, so that's where I would start. Like the chargers have to look themselves in the mirror and ask themselves if they want to be a physical football team on defense. And if they want to, if they want to show up and defend the run, because, you know, some of it is obviously schematic. They're getting hit on some of the same place and this pin pull stuff getting attacked on the edges, um, but at the end of the day, like run defense comes

down to fundamentals. Like how badly do you want to remain in that spot and not get moved by the double team? And that's what they're not able to do right now at a consistent level. I feel like you sounded like Marty Schoenheimer there for a second. It's amazing how my men, are we going to be a physical football team here or not? It's 93 again. It's amazing how my football philosophy has changed over time, the more you watch it. But the reality is like any good offensive coordinator that sees that type of weakness is going to attack it.

And if you can't stop the run, you're in for a long day because all of a sudden, you know, your linebackers start being over eager in terms of trying to make plays, and then you can draw them in off play action, and there's holes all over the middle of the field. And it's a cliche for a reason, you know, every game starts with stopping the run or establishing the run, in my opinion. Well, it's also the league is shifted a bit over the last five years, or maybe even we could say significantly over the last five years going back to your run success, dictating a lot more than it did in 2020 where teams were very past happy

and the league was succeeding as most as it ever has in the past that has gone backwards a bit in the league and that's why we love it. So what do you want to know for me, Daniel? What do you want to know? Aaron Jones? Where's he at?

He's still on IR. So not going to happen anytime soon. Why is he on your fantasy team? No. No. Yeah, well. No, he is. He is.

that my two-headed backfield of Aaron Jones and Jonathan Taylor has been cut in half. Yeah, one for two though. Yeah, Aaron Jones, the hamstring got hurt against Atlanta and just got put on IR hasn't been back. So it's really all Jordan Mason and the occasional Xavier Scott of the main black bears. And if you don't think I already wrote a feature on that, you'd be wrong because I did. But he's been one of those camp stories of guys that you completely write off. And then he gets he actually did catch a toe tap touchdown against the Pittsburgh Steelers because he's a former wide receiver.

But it's really all, it's all Jordan Mason these days. And Mason has been great. But the issue with not having Ryan Kelly and Donovan Jackson has been banged up is just not being able to run the type of scheme that you thought you were going to be able to run. So with a backup center, he's at his best when you're running outside zone. You know that those centers have to reach block a lot in that scheme. and if they don't get there, someone's just free and it's an extra body. So they've had to change that up quite a bit without Ryan Kelly.

I think it's been hard for them. But Donovan Jackson, I mean, think about this. If they could put Josh Oliver, one of the best blocking tight ends with Christian Darisaw and Donovan Jackson against the team that, as you're talking about, doesn't really want to be that physical. There is a huge opportunity for Jordan Mason in this game. All right. So I do want to ask about Brian Flores. as 2020, last time these two teams played one of the best games of Justin Herbert's career.

That was crazy. In Minneapolis. Hey, only, only though, listen, only if he can bounce it off somebody's face, all right? Yeah. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been one of the best games of his career. Also, dropped interception late in that game. Yeah. That should have totally flipped it.

But what I wanted to ask was Flores blitzed, I don't know, 80 something percent of the time in that game. I still think it is one of the highest single game blitz rates in the true media database. So from that game till now, how has Flores his scheme changes, if at all? And how would you expect him to try and attack the Chargers offense? Yeah, that's interesting because Herbert had no problems with it. And in fact, the overaggressiveness also resulted in, was it Keenan Allen who threw the touchdown as well? Yeah, that was insane. And that's one of the best receiver games I've ever seen in my life.

I think he had 18 catches and a thrown touchdown, which see if the pro football reference thing can find you any other receiver who had that combination at any point. But, you know, I do think that if you're talking about an offense that desperately wants to get rid of the ball quickly and they're already designing everything to get rid of the ball quickly, how much good does blitzing really do for you? The other problem is, too, that we saw against the Eagles is if you block up the Blitz, they don't have guys who can really cover one-on-one against good wide receivers. And look, the Eagles guys are all world.

I mean, Smith and Brown are unbelievable. Both of them are superstar wide receiver ones. The Eagles could probably do what they did against the Vikings every week and just throw it deep to them over and over again. So that's not quite the way that the Chargers are going to be able to play. but I think that it's going to be very similar in terms of strategy for the Chargers, which is the Vikings tend to rely on pressure, play a lot up over the top, and say, all right, well, we're going to go after you 15 times. If you want to try to have a 15 play drive where you've got to beat this over and over

and over and over again, you'll probably make a mistake, throw a pick, get a strip sack, you know, whatever. The problem is that those things haven't really shown up for the Vikings defense. They don't have very many sacks. they don't have very many turnovers that they've caused that were not by Jake Browning who got benched for a million-year-old

Joe Flacco, but when they've played good quarterbacks or even reasonable quarterbacks, I mean, even Dylan Gabriel didn't make mistakes against this defense that it's one of those things as we're having this conversation, it really strikes me how fragile defense is from year to year.

I mean, you're talking about, if you said to someone on the street, you know what the real issue with the charges is, they lost Puna 4. They'd be like, what in God's name are you talking about? and I said wait wait I have receipts on this I was no I'm not saying you're wrong made a huge mistake letting him walk I was the only person the only person I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just saying that if you said that to an average football fan they'd be like what the world are you talking about you psycho but like that's how and we've been saying this about Jonathan Bullard and you're like who are these people but the interconnectedness of a defense when it's good you know then you've replaced parts and you have different things and it might not be the same to me, though, if the Chargers can run the ball, that's majorly problematic for this team. But it just, in terms of coverage, it has not been the same as what it was last year because they were pressuring quarterbacks with those blitzes so much that they were making mistakes and

that's how they got, you know, turnovers. But the trend for the floor is defense. And maybe this is the trend for every defense. I don't really know is that the good quarterbacks don't have that many problems with it. They can identify stuff. They know where to go with the football. And I've cited that Herbert game, uh, in sharing this opinion probably 50 times. Like he just had no, he just had no problems. It was like, oh, Blitz. Okay, balls out. And that's been Jared Gough. Like, look at Jared Gough's record against this team is ludicrous. How much he's ripped them apart. Stafford ripped them apart. And so I feel like it's going to be the same type of thing unless they get immediate sacks. Like that's where Grinard has been licking his chops.

I think Dallas Turner is kind of due for one. We see Jonathan Allen, having a really good game. So, yeah, I don't know. I mean, will they blitz? I'm sure they will. They'll never stop doing that. But I think it will be a lot less in this game than what you saw before. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's certainly an opportunity to eat on the interior against some of these guys, you know, especially Bradley Bozeman. You can scheme it up. We'll see what happens with the target with the Chargers tackle situation. You know, Alt was practicing a little bit last week. So I wouldn't say definitely no. You know, he was, you know, they had a walk through. so it was estimated on Monday, but he was limited.

So he probably has a shot. I think Trey Pipkins is probably going to miss one more game. So, you know, we've talked a lot about the tackles, but the interior is very getable. So as far as the secondary, what are the issues there for you from what you're seeing? Is it personnel? Is it the positions they're being put in? What do you think? Well, one thing is that they just got Harrison Smith back fully in this last game against the Eagles.

And overall, I thought he played really well. but trying to replace Harrison Smith, and this will be a big factor in this game. Trying to replace Harrison Smith with Theo Jackson is just not the same. Like Theo Jackson is a sixth rounder that they picked up from another team's practice squad a couple years ago. That's not a guy who's borderline, if not Hall of Fame caliber, even in his older age.

But the impact of that was that Josh Mattelis, who is this puzzle piece in the front seven and loves to play in the box, gets in those throwing lanes on short passes, stops the run. He was fantastic, stopping the run the other day against Saquan Barclay. I think PFF had him at five negative plays, stops in the run, which is really impressive. But he was having to play like a traditional safety spot. And that's just not his game. And when he got matched up against A.J. Brown, they just threw a 37-yard touchdown because

it's covering wide receivers 30 yards down the field is not who Josh Mattelis is. So I think that that's improved. But the other thing is Jeff Okuda is unplayable, as I think we all would have expected when they signed Jeff Okuda. It was sort of bizarre that they let go, Mackay Blackman, who, you know, the Chargers played against last week. He's falling out. Well, you know, he was a third round pick that they liked and then just never really looked the same in camp. They let him go and they said we're okay with Okuda. But, you know, I think one thing we should learn is that camp can trick our eyes sometimes.

Like, camp is not real. football and Okuda gave up two of the biggest receptions for the Eagles last week. The Bengals attacked him immediately as soon as other teams see him on the field. They're like, oh, I know where we're throwing. That's how it is. So now you have to play three safeties all the time. And if you're trying to play three safeties and you can get Ladd-McConkey lined up against the safety, he will win. And I think that that would be the major concern there. The other thing is, too, that Isaiah Rogers is a super fun player. He runs like a 4-2-40.

I'm not even kidding. He's like one of the fastest human beings in the entire NFL. And he had, again, Cincinnati, one of the most amazing games in NFL history, where he gets two touchdowns in one half. But on a play-to-play basis, there's a reason that he was not a starter in the league despite the physical traits.

And I think that he's a good player but can be beaten. And we saw that last week. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to take some double move deep shots if they can get off against him because you saw him get burned by Devante Smith because this game ain't all about 40 times. And I just don't think it's the same as what they had last year with Stefan Gilmore. The thing about Gilmore is that he's a genius. Like he's he wasn't fast anymore, but he's absolutely brilliant in terms of understanding what he had left in the tank, like the angles he would take or the risks that he would or wouldn't take and knowing

he could understand what somebody else's route was going to be as soon as they took off from the line of scrimmage because he just knew so much. I don't think that's Isaiah Rogers. So it's just felt much more vulnerable. And if you can get guys the ball in their hands, they're going to be able to get yards after catch against this team because they're just not tackling in the same way as they did.

But other than that, everything's fine. Yeah. Hey, can we talk about. I'm sorry, go ahead. One more thing in the secondary because it sounds like sort of a weak leg situation. So corner opposite to Byron Murphy is weak. and then, you know, with Harrison Smith out, weak link at safety, Mattelis out of position and that kind of,

but with Murphy, like, I loved him in free agency. I thought, yeah, I thought the target should have gone after him. So he's been solid still or? I would not say that. Yeah, I think it's been more of a struggle for him. He gave up a touchdown against AJ Brown, which I understand people do. But the one thing about Murphy and I,

I also feel very strongly about his role in this defense and how good he's been as a Viking. So far this year, though, want the thing that's been missing is the big play and they also i don't think i'll look up the numbers right now i don't think they target him very much i mean i think that they understand that there's other places to go with the football and they're just like yeah exactly like why throw it byron murphy let me see in terms of targets yeah he's only been targeted 19 times which is third on the team i mean it's not really a whole heck of a lot uh when you get six interceptions that's

another thing too but he hasn't been able to turn the ball over the other weird dynamic is that opposing teams haven't had to throw the ball much. They've been winning so much that Rogers threw it 22 times, I think, hurts through it 23 times. Like when you look at, why aren't they getting sacks? Why aren't they getting pressures? Why aren't they getting picks? Because the other teams ahead and they're not taking risks and they're not having to

throw a lot. So that's kind of been the story of this. And then they've given up big plays, which is, you know, the whole story of this team. Can we talk about before we wrap up and say who's, going to win this game, make a completely accurate prediction about high ankle sprains for a second. So my, my brain has just been hurting over the internet takes from fraudulent fake ex-chargers doctors who are saying that J.J. McCarthy's hiding behind his injury and that sort of

thing. And then, hey, look, if you spout a bunch of BS on the internet, it stirs people up. It works. So I do give them credit for that. But the reality is that with a high ankle sprain, especially if it has additional swelling, it can take more time than one to two weeks, which was the quacks expectation when he got hurt. But this is not new to quarterbacks. And Justin Herbert dealt with this a couple of years ago. Can you give me some insight into high ankle sprains at quarterbacks? Yeah. Well, first thing I would say is no two injuries are the same. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of times when we talk about injuries, you put all high ankle sprains. in one bucket and all ACL tears in one bucket. Every injury is different. Every body is

different. Every recovery is different. And that point needs to be made. Justin Herbert did have a high ankle sprain last year in week two. He was trying to play hero ball in the red zone against the Panthers, took an unnecessary hit, got rolled up on. He played through it. But it was a very dangerous situation. And he probably should not have played through it. He couldn't move in week three. and they ended up taking him out for Taylor Heineke against Pittsburgh. And then he played in week four against the Chiefs when they had, you know, four backup offensive linemen in there. And after the Steelers game, I wrote a column being like,

who in this organization is going to protect Justin Herbert from himself? Because he was playing through an injury and he probably shouldn't have been out there and they were putting him at risk. And it's difficult. It's hard. When you have a really good quarterback like that, especially a competitor like Justin Herbert, he's going to want to play through every single injury and it's up to the organization

to make the final call and be able to stand up to their star player and say no this is what we're doing you need to take a week off because we cannot risk losing you for more of the season than we already have if you miss this game and so you know Seeler's game was was Harry the Chiefs game after that was Harry they ended having to buy in week five and then he came back in week six and was sort of able to move on it you know move on from it, you know, moving forward, but he really wasn't fully healthy until midway through the season and they were trying to gut it out on offense and they really didn't have much of the playbook available to them. So it's possible to play through it if you're, you know,

a psychopath and, you know, can manage pain that way, but every injury is different. And it also isn't always the best thing to play through an injury. Yeah. Especially when you have a young quarterback like J.J. McCarthy who hasn't played a whole lot and you're trying to make sure that he gets off to a proper start in his career and throwing him out there in a situation where you don't necessarily trust the offensive line. You don't trust that he's going to be able to move. It could be catastrophic, both from a confidence standpoint and from a physical standpoint. If you can't protect yourself at quarterback, it is up to the organization to step in and say, you are not playing. We will put you out there when we feel like you can protect yourself.

And I feel like the Chargers made a mistake last year in terms of putting Justin Herbert in a situation where he could not protect himself, and luckily it didn't backfire, but that's not because they did anything logical or made any sort of good decision in terms of playing him or not. Well, and I know that J.J. McCarthy badly wants to be out there. And also the idea that Kevin O'Connell really, really can't get enough Carson Wentz in his life and would just not want to have McCarthy out there, the guy that he worked with endlessly through the offseason, the guy that he chose over franchise tagging Sam Darnold, the guy that he chose over Aaron Rock. And you're telling me that after two games, one of which they won, he was like,

no, I've had enough. I'm out. I mean, that just doesn't make a lick a sense. But, you know, again, conspiracies don't have to. They just have to get people talking, I guess. So that's been the big discussion here, I guess, is when he comes back. I would be very surprised if he does. We're doing this right before we're going to hear from O'Connell.

So maybe he'll walk out and shock us. Either way, it will be a fascinating matchup between two. very flawed teams. And the last thing I want to ask you, Daniel, is just how, how are Chargers fans dealing with this? Like, are they going to go to the game? Are they, are they like, are they kind of, oh, we're mid, we're not going to go? Because the malaise has set in here until McCarthy comes back. There's just a like, okay, I'll turn the game on, but I'm not going to emotionally care. That's how it's been for Vikings fans, I think, until McCarthy returns. But is there a belief that the Chargers can still compete

with the Chiefs, with the crazy ass Broncos who keep coming back in every game, or is it kind of like, oh, they're the, you know, they're the Chargers. They're doing their thing. I think there's some frustration. I think there's definitely some frustration.

Part of it is just sometimes you have these seasons where the injuries just go, hey, wire, and it is what it is. I think a lot of fans had big expectations after the three and no start. I think they were in a good spot heading into the season. I think all fans were sort of in a measured place.

They start three and no with three wins over the division and they're being talked about like their Super Bowl contenders. And I think that, um, you know, led the fan base astray in certain ways. Because when you were watching it, it was clear that they still had some flaws on this team, uh, despite the three and no start, you know, people talking about them being the most complete team in football, I think was misguided. And so I think a lot of the frustration is rooted in the fact that they were three and oh, the chief started oh and two.

It was a real opportunity to like run away with this division, frankly. And now you look up after seven games and they're locked in with the chiefs at four and three. And it feels like a missed opportunity. So, you know, I think there might be a little bit of apathy settling in, but the season's not over. And they have opportunities here. If they can get a little bit healthier and get some reinforcements to try and make a

push for the postseason. But from my experience with the fans, I think they fully understand. understand that there are deep, deep flaws with this team that, you know, guys coming back off IR isn't necessarily going to fix. Daniel Popper for my money, one of the best NFL beat reporters for a team there is, one of my favorite guests to bring on the show. And sometimes the Vikings aren't even playing the Chargers and you'll come on the show just because that's how much I like having you on, Daniel.

Can't wait to see you on Thursday night. Thank you so much for the time, the breakdown, and your medicator. analysis as well because anybody can do it. So, uh, that's always a blast, man. Thanks for having me on. Thanks, dude. We'll see you soon.