Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings cursed?

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Matthew Coller and Brian Murphy dive into the Vikings' sadness factory when it comes to kicking woes and talk about the sheer odds of having so many things to bizarrely sideways for the Vikings. They talk about the things that went right for the Vikings on Sunday but also what it means to be 0-2 in the NFL. Is there change on the horizon? Even with the unusual losses, have the Vikings become weirdly predictable? How will ownership feel if they don't bounce back against Seattle? Visit tickpick.com/insider today and use the promo code INSIDER to save $10 on your first order of Vikings tickets! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I want to remind you before we get started, the TickPick is the exclusive ticketing partner of Purple Insider and the Blue Wire Network. TickPick should be your first choice to buy football tickets because they save fans money by never charging service fees ever. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here, and it's time once again for Monday Morning Murph with Brian Murphy, who has a brilliant column on purpleinsider.substack.com a familiar feeling brian is the title which i made uh because yesterday the vikings lose on a wide right pushed kick by greg joseph and sam and i have broken down all of the things that are the footbally football things so i wanted to start out with this for you

do you think that the vikings are? I think their kickers are cursed. I don't necessarily believe too much in the hereafter or a lot of that kind of stuff. I'm quite a spiritual person. But I mean, just look at the record. I mean, and you can pick the exact date, which I referenced in the column, January 17th, 1999, NFC championship game, Metrodome, Vikings about to bury the Falcons in a 10-point deficit, Gary Anderson, perfect all season, slightly hooks it left. We all know what happened after that. Overtime, meltdown, 16-1 team that never was. And what do we have since then? We have Blair Walsh in the Arctic against Seattle from 26 yards, I believe.

27 yards. Wide left. We have Daniel Carlson three years ago in Lambeau with his infamous meltdown. We had the Dan Bailey experiment, the up and down. And then welcome Greg Joseph to the Boulevard of Broken Dreams and the Sad Cafe, because here's a guy, and this is what has to confound, just like the Anderson miss in 98, has to confound Vikings fans. Joseph is three for three on 50 plus, not to mention the one he made at the end of regulation last week in Cincinnati, that didn't count because the Bengals iced him. So let's just say four for four from 50. But he misses an extra point yesterday.

He pushes, at least it was wide right, something a little different, a 37-yarder that would have won it. And on top of that, the Vikings had to endure the fact that Matt Brader steps on the field with no time in regulation and bombs a 62 yarder. So I did that. I mean, that's a minus seven hot poker in the eye by the kicking guts.

So I will say the Vikings kicking game is cursed. Their fans are cursed. The team they're coming now. They're coming close. So one time I kind of went through just and wrote down as i was thinking about it all the cursed things that have happened to them and i came up with yes cursed uh the odds of like think about this the odds of two franchise quarterbacks having their careers end within the first couple of seasons when absolutely nobody else's franchise quarterback

ever has their career end within the first couple of seasons and I know Dante played a little for Miami and Detroit but it was it was done for all intents and purposes and then Teddy is now 2-0 but um you know he's gone through a long route to get back to looking even a little bit like Teddy Bridgewater again and of course he's not playing for the Vikings when that was supposed to be your franchise quarterback. Can you think of two other players who were high draft picks and then had sudden knee injuries and then were just never the same at the quarterback position

over the last 20 years? I'm sure there's one or two, but I can't think of them. And Dante Culpepper and Teddy Bridgewater were both on a trajectory to be great. And then you go through all the other things. I mean, the Favre interception, Favre was known for that type of interception, but you're right there in field goal position. And he decides to throw across his body. How about the fact that they cannot win a game in Chicago, that their last 20 years against Chicago, I think they're five and 15 against the franchise that hasn't even been that good.

Like there's all these things, you know, I'm a numbers person, Murph. There's all these things that go so severely against the odds, including a 37 yard field goal, a 27 yard field goal, and a 38 yard field goal that you you reference and now and not only that but let me throw in one more Daniel Carlson leads the NFL I believe right now in most field goals in a row right he had a great game yesterday right um hey 27 for his last 27 for the old timers don't forget the Drew Pearson push-off in 75 in the divisional playoff game that actually gave birth to the phrase hail mary so the vikings have a dubious distinction of being a part of that part of nfl history um you know you were mentioning you know franchise quarterbacks knees and i'm thinking rg3 maybe in washington

okay yeah might have been a good example in the last 10 years correct yeah uh beyond that no i can't the whole league the whole league there's one that you thought of. Right. Out of 30, 30, 30 other teams. That's team has two. And it's just, you know, we've talked about this over the years. I mean, the Vikings fan base is just the fatalism is bone deep. And and everybody is so conditioned to expect the worst that every time a kicker lines up a crucial kick, everybody's looking through fan fingers, barely able to watch it, which they were last week in Cincinnati. And you think, oh, wipe this brow clean. You know, the offensive line was the villain last week. Kicking game was fine. Cousins was fine. Cousins came up big yesterday, went toe-to-toe with a video game freak, and still had the Vikings in position again at the end drove

him down got him in field goal position I mean they centered the ball he wasn't even on a hash mark I mean they had him right dead center and I know there's been a little bit of a well was Zimmer gun shy to give the ball to Madison because of what happened to Cook last week at the end of overtime I don't know I mean maybe he was maybe he wasn't maybe five more yards and that ball sneaks in the upright, but you're an NFL kicker. You're out. Your, your basic obligations on the resume is to hit a field goal between 30 and 40 yards. That's a minimum requirement for an NFL kicker. So this is all on Greg Joseph. Right? I mean, 37 yards. I felt the same way indoors, 37 yards. I think you're fine at just planting it there, or you should be. Now I get what people are saying that in hindsight, you say,

well, could you have gotten him five yards closer? Then does that field goal cut inside instead of pushing to the right? And I don't, i don't think that that is wrong to feel that way that he makes the field goal if you could have gotten him closer this actually happened a couple years ago in 2016 where mike zimmer mishandled the clock by just ever so slightly and the detroit lions you remember this game in 2016 pulled pulled this crazy comeback where Matt Prater, once again, kicked the field goal from, I think, 58 to tie the game. Yeah, in that fourth field, yes. Right. And there was a lot of criticism for Zimmer of, why did you leave 23 seconds left,

as opposed to running it all the way down and running your fourth quarter play? And even though that's correct, just like it's correct to say the odds would have been better if they use that 40 seconds to run a couple other times. I remember looking at the at the odds for Detroit to win that game. And the win probability was like three percent when they gave him the ball back. It was like, make a stop. Don't have a guy make a 58 yard field goal win in overtime like you had so many other chances so many other things that you blew that I didn't think that it was that consequential that he messed up the clock ever so slightly it was the purely the execution in my mind on this like yeah I guess if it's me playing Madden I do run a couple of other plays but also I thought well they got Chandler Jones over there if you throw a pass and he tips the ball in the air and it's a pick, then we're going, oh my gosh, why did you do that? Why did you run another play? Right. So I kind of go,

I don't know, man. I think you should expect the 37-yard field goal to go in. Absolutely. And as we've said over and again, the margin for error on this team is razor thin. So when you have an offensive line that can't do anything in Cincinnati, when you have a 50-50 replay call at the end of the game that doesn't go your way, those are the things that are going to come back and haunt a marginal team. Now you go out to Arizona, the offensive line, I mean, you want to talk about back from the dead. I mean, they had a fantastic game yesterday. Cook was running downhill into open space most of the day. Kirk Cousins, when the pocket collapsed, made some things happen with his legs. Now, he still may be the whitest guy on the wedding dance floor. You've got to give him credit for making some plays with his legs. He had plenty of time to take a look downfield, to strike downfield. I mean, and boy, could you have had a better start to a shootout

than what the Vikings had? A big Delvin Cook run, a big bomb down the sideline to K.J. Osborne, immediately takes the edge off. No penalties, no sacks, no three and out. Here we go. You could tell early on this was going to be whoever had the ball last was probably going to win although the Vikings did have the ball last and should have won so many positive things to unpack from this game and nowhere to put it because of the

way it ended and now you're at 0-2 and we can get into the numbers beyond that and it is daunting for a playoff berth at this point. Right. And I don't know the exact percentages with seven playoff teams and a 17-game season. So that changes things a little bit from what it used to be. But what it used to be was 11% was your chance. Yeah, I saw 12 out there. Yeah, 11, 12%, right.

Depending on how you round up the decimal. That's not great. And I think that what you saw in this game was both the reasons that the Vikings could get back in the playoff race and the reasons that they might not and the reasons that they could be owned for. And here's what I want your take on, Murph, is Mike Zimmer's in back-to-back weeks to start this season has just not been all that good. Joe Burrow ended with 128 quarterback rating and Kyler Murray ended up with 117. And he certainly made his own luck on those. It wasn't incredible plays.

It was Kyler Murray throwing it right to the other team twice. You mentioned a video game type thing, and that is exactly how I play quarterback on Madden, is throw for 400 yards, but also have two of the stupidest interceptions that you'll ever see. But the defense in neither one of these games has looked like, okay, Zimmer's defense is back. And I think when we talk about pressure on the head coach, that has to be at the top of everybody's minds at TCO Performance Center is, wow, Kirk Cousins put up a great game. Delvin Cook put up a great game.

And yes, you missed a field goal at the end. But when the scoreboard says 0-2 and both of those games, you gave up a lot of points and and albeit to good players that Joe Burrow and Kyler Murray but still like that was the plan wasn't it wasn't the plan to have Kirk Cousins beat Kirk and play pretty well win his good games that's not what they've done like even I mean if even if like okay the first half of Cousins was not good against Cincinnati because they're playing in second and 20 all the time. And he's not Patrick Mahomes. But from the second quarter of that game to the end of the second game, you have a good quarterback play and you're 0-2.

And I think you have to look at that and go, wasn't the plan to revamp the defense and win games like this? Well, I'll give him a little bit of credit on the rush because somewhere out in the mix, there was a tweet out there that on some of those magical plays that Murray made, he had five plus seconds of protection or time, most of which he created himself yes there are very few nfl uh defensive backfields that are going to be able to withstand a pro bowl type quarterback with five seconds to to do something that's just but is that that league though murph i mean they're facing another one this week and they might face justin fields trail lands right yeah but so I will. And then Daniil Hunter is making Daniil Hunter plays. I mean, he made a huge sack on Arizona's last possession that forced them to punt and got the ball back to the Vikings to get into field goal range. Who knew Nick Vigil emerging as a nice playmaker? Patrick Peterson in his homecoming, looking slow. The rest of that backfield, looking slow.

Again, Kyler Murray, we'll give it to him. But here's the problem. As you mentioned, now you've got Russell Wilson coming into town, who is 7-0 against the Vikings. You've got Baker Mayfield coming in the week after, who's emerging as, or not even emerging, he's establishing himself as a gamer,ishaps that seem to plague somebody new or a different unit every week. They cleaned up the offensive line. They cleaned up the penalties. Your big leg kicker failed with the two shortest kicks of the game.

Your pass defense was suspect. And now you are going to tee up against a nemesis in what I can only imagine is going to be a very tense and very hostile U.S. Bank Stadium next Sunday. And quite liquored. I mean, let's be honest. Because I think there's going to be, you know, it's the first home game they've had since, what, December of 19? They're 0-2. The writing is on the wall. The tension is thick. And, again, you've got a fan base condition for the worst.

So I think the mood next Sunday is going to be really interesting to see how the Vikings respond to that. I mean, there should be a boost coming home. I mean, look, 70,000 are still going to support them. But the first sign of trouble, the first sign of trouble, the tendon is going to get thick. And I just, you wonder how long that can hold. Fans are going back to stadiums,

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right in the tank and they just stay down there it's been a long time since they have just been at the bottom through a whole season uh maybe 2013 is one of those years last year at one and five although they rebounded that's what i mean that even they go to green bay last year at one five and they bounce back and then they win a bunch of games to get themselves back in the playoff race. And I thought, well, this is a more talented team, so they're going and playing a good team. They'll do that. And largely on the offensive side, they did. But on the defensive side, like you said, yeah, Kyler Murray made special plays, but there's now a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL who make special plays. I watched Derek Carr play some special football. Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes were going back and forth making special plays. It's like, this is the league. The Vikings have to play Lamar Jackson later in this season. Like, if you can't stop special quarterbacks or slow them down, you're just going to lose and lose and lose. And I guess I am questioning this team's defensive ability to do that with the secondary that they have that is not played well in either one of these games. And I know it's only through two games, but the Vikings, in terms of yards per play, are seventh worst in the NFL right now.

And again, I know two games, but points allowed. They've given up 61, which is the fifth most in the NFL so far. This is not the expectation when you spend all that money on the defensive side. And I guess I wonder, do we have to start talking about this when it comes to the coaching situation? If Baker Mayfield and Russell Wilson over these next two weeks have big games. Well, Owen four is usually a dead man walking, especially somebody who in his eighth season, this is not Mike Zimmer's first year of a rebuild or second year of a

transition or third year of getting his feet wet. I mean, he's got his fingerprints all over this. This is his baby. It's Spielman's baby. We all know that it's, you know, Cousins has done everything he can to separate himself and get out of that muck, at least for the time being. And I think this is what makes the Cincinnati loss even so much more painful, because, again, this four game stretch, you look at that four game stretch and you thought Cincinnati gives them the best opportunity. They start out 1-0. If they lose

yesterday, even in the biblical fashion it was as usual, you're still 1-1 and there was a ton of positive things to take out of that performance yesterday on the road. You got to feel a lot better. At 0-2, with the Vikings, it never feels like 0-2. It feels like 0-5, times. Their record in those 14 seasons, 77, 133-6 for a 3-5-6 winning percentage. They made the postseason only one time after starting 0-2 in 2008. Brad Childress rallied them to a 10-6 finish, a wild card berth, and a very quick exit. Our friend Gus Farratz, yes. Here's the real dagger for 0-2 starts. It has cost six of the franchise's head coaches their jobs.

Norm Van Brocklin resigned in 67 but was probably going to get canned. Les Steckle in 1984, the infamous 3-13 Les Steckle, Denny Green in 2001, and Brad Childress in 2010. Those three guys were fired in season. Mike Tice was let go with about a minute after his season-ending loss to Chicago at the Metrodome when the Wills had just taken over the team. I mean, he finished 9-7 out of the playoffs, and before he got to his post-game podium, there was a press release that he was gone.

And Leslie Frazier was fired in January of 14, following that dreadful 2013 season. And that brought in Mike Zimmer. And now Mike Zimmer is on borrowed time at 0-2, staring at history that tells us he may not survive the season and the Vikings are very unlikely to be playing much in January. Dark, Brian, dark. Facts. It just, no, you're right.

Yeah, no, it is. It is. 0-2 is crazy how much of a death knell it usually is. And I remember looking at this, like two teams have won the Super Bowl in the last 20 years that went 0-2. One of them was quarterbacked by Tom Brady, so there is that. But teams making the playoffs, it's usually a sign that you can't bounce back from whatever happened in week one. Like even look at Tennessee and what they did beating Seattle.

Like we're not as bad as we were against Arizona. We're going to bounce back and beat Seattle and go to one and one. So it doesn't end the season. It just makes your climb to the playoffs seriously uphill. And I know people have said, well, look, the division is not that tough. No, it's not. But there are other divisions that are, which means that if you're not winning the division, if Green Bay wins the division, then you have to try to get in at whatever record. If you go nine and eight and you bounce back and you have some really big wins and so forth, then yeah, that's going to be good for you. But you're already playing from behind. Like

Chicago beat the Bengals yesterday and you're already tracking down the Bengals and we're pretty much counting on the Packers to win at home tonight against the Lions yes for sure and so if they go to one and one now you're already playing from behind them and assuming that you know Aaron Rodgers is not just you know turned into the big Lebowski or something from now on and he's just going to be terrible I'm assuming he's not then you're going to be chasing from behind with them and he's just going to be terrible. I'm assuming he's not. Then you're going to be chasing from behind with them. You can get a mean Caucasian in Green Bay. Even if they win 10 or 11 games, Green Bay, and they're not a special team,

it's hard to get to 11 wins when you've started 0-2 against the schedule that you have coming. And so I guess I think, Murph, when we look at 0-2 and the way that they got to 0-2, of course, a lot of people will say, like, classic Vikings way to get to 0-2 with these two games, overtime and then a missed field goal to win it. But does it say to you the way that they lost, okay, they can get back because they were right there in both games and they just need those things to go their way? Or do you say this is a sign that they're just not going to have everything

go right and they're not going to have it go right enough to get to where they want to go? Well, let me break this into two categories. You've got the hard numbers and the facts and the analytics that we've discussed in terms of 0-2 history. And then you've got the hard numbers and the facts and the analytics that we've discussed in terms of 0-2 history. And then you've got the psychology of it. So they've lost two very tough games by a total of four points. That ain't much. What they were able to patch together and rebound with on the offensive line was extremely impressive. I mean, let's give a hat tip to that unit. I think they only had one penalty that I can remember, one false start on Brian O'Neill, I believe. I don't even remember a holding call. I mean, there were gaping holes for Cook to run

into. There was beautiful pockets for Cousins to take aim downfield. So that should be lauded because we thought that was just going to be an albatross all season long. Well, maybe that won't be. So I look at that. I look at Kirk Cousins play and go, this is what you're paying this guy for. I mean, he was sharp. He, you know, there may have been a one or two checkdowns where he rolled your eyes again behind the sticks, but he got the ball downfield. He was accurate. No turnovers again. He's doing what he needs to do.

He's driving when it matters most. He's taking the ball down the field and putting the team in a position to either tie or win a game. That's what you want out of a quarterback. That's what he's doing. So I chalk that up as good. Cook's a little banged up, but, you know, he looks good as ever. K.JJ Osborne, look, you got a three receivers threat now, again, back to the old, what, Carter Moss and Jake Reed days. Very positive. Playmakers emerging a bit on the defensive line. Defensive coverage

we've talked about, but it's the psychology of being 0-2 because you've exposed yourself as a team that hasn't won yet. You are behind the eight ball. You're basically validating everybody's worst fears. If you lose two games in a row in November, it could be tense. You know, if you go from six to four to six and six, boy, people are, you know, people are going to be puckering up. But 0-2 feels different than a two-game losing streak in November. And that's where the psychology comes into play. And particularly in this market. And particularly within the walls of this facility. Because look, Mike Zimmer's never going to show vulnerability. Rick Spielman rarely comes out of his cave to show us anything, but he's not going to show vulnerability. Cousins is oblivious to any vulnerability.

But the reality is these guys are under an enormous amount of pressure. This team is under an enormous amount of pressure. You've got a fan base that's ready to jump collectively off any bridge in town. What you have is a recipe for this going off the rails quickly. And there's no get well game on the schedule. You know, there isn't a Houston Texans out there. There isn't a Lions game on the immediate horizon. That's what the Vikings need.

The Vikings need a home opener against the Lions. They need the Texans to roll into town. They need the Jets to be here. But instead, you've got the Seahawks on the National Game of the Week Sunday and Russell Wilson, who they cannot figure out how to beat. And then you've got Baker Mayfield and your erstwhile offensive coordinator, Kevin Stefanski, who apparently wasn't good enough to be here. You've got that storyline rolling into town. That's the problem. It's the psychology as much as it is the math that is working against them. Right. These next two opponents is really a huge part of this, because in previous years, when they've gotten to this low point and it's happened in 2018, 2019 and 2020, sometimes you've run into opponents that help you out a lot. And in 2019, you remember they were two and two.

Stefan Diggs had just announced that there were truth to all rumors that he wanted to be traded. And yet the next opponent was on the road at the New York Giants, who were a tragedy of a football team. And they just went in there and blasted the heck out of them. And then I forget who was next, but it was somebody, I might've been the Detroit type of thing. And so they beat them and then all of a sudden, OK, now they're rolling and they've got their confidence back. And even last year, they beat Green Bay in a wind aided kind of bizarre game. And then the next week, it's whatever Jacksonville, Carolina, they came to town. And so they start reeling off these wins, even though some of them were closer than they should be against Jacksonville, Carolina.

But they start reeling off these wins against teams that aren't good. And Detroit was mixed in there always. Kirk Cousins is 6-0 against Detroit. I guess everybody is. But that doesn't happen for another couple of weeks that you get to face Detroit. And they also don't have Matt Patricia as their coach. And to your point about how it feels to be 0-2, let's take a look at the standings right now. Let's say Green Bay wins the football contest tonight against Detroit. That would leave Detroit, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Atlanta,

the New York Jets, Indianapolis Colts, and New York Giants as the 0-2 teams. Do you want to be in that company? That's not a play group I want to be with. No. That's not the table I want to be sitting with in the cafeteria. No. And so I guess what's on the table here then for the Vikings is show us that it's different. Because this week will be another week of, hey, look, guys, we just missed a field goal. We were great. And then, you know, you don't want to get the microscope out and say, why did you run the football so much late in that game? You know,

why, why did you run on second and 10 when Kirk Cousins should be going into final drive mode? Or why does Bashad Breeland look like he can't play anymore? Or Patrick Peterson had a tough day? Or are you guys on the same page in the secondary? Because this looks like two straight years of not being on the same page in the secondary and you can't stop the run, which is something that I didn't expect. But Arizona, when they did run the football, they had over 100 yards rushing. And so, you know, you don't want to get the microscope out and start talking about some of the weaknesses of this team. And if they win these next two games, then I would say season back on. Yeah.

They would have earned that. Right. They would have earned that. That's what I mean is the opportunity is there for you to show that you're not one of those 90% of teams in the past who goes 0-2, that you are not Atlanta, New York, Indianapolis, Jacksonville. Like you have a chance to show that you are not Atlanta New York Indianapolis Jacksonville like you have a chance to show that you're not with those teams and usually the Vikings have in the past gotten themselves back into that in the hunt graphic I don't know if they could do it this time

because Seattle has an incredible offense and Cleveland is a legitimate super bowl contender so i don't know murph well i think everybody wants that though even cynical media hacks like us you know or part-timers like me nobody wants to be around a one in ten train wreck you know and this week after week of misery they need to win to make it interesting, keep the audience engaged, keep everybody hoping and dreaming, even though inevitably it may be crushed. But at least that's the entertainment value, the potential, what could happen. Look at all these things that they can build on. And there's plenty of building blocks there. I mean, there is a lot to look at in these two performances separately and individually that shows what this team is capable of doing, but they cannot finish. They have not finished.

And again, a lot of people like to say, oh, one or two plays and they're 2-0. Well, those are one or two plays you didn't make. You know, the NFL is an unforgiving league. You don't get to say, oh, but, and point at the guys in the stripes or the guys at the replay facility in New York. But for them, we'd be 2-0. But for this, but for that, no. You are what your record shows you are. And that is the brilliance of such a cutthroat league when you only have 17 opportunities

to prove yourself. You don't have 82 games like the NBA or the NHL or 162 like baseball, where you can have an awful three-week stretch and still recover. There is no margin for error. Within the context of an NFL schedule, there's very little margin for error. Within the context of this particular team, there is no margin for error. So every week is prove it. Every opportunity to show that these seven out of ten things we did really well should be able to produce a victory but it's the three things you failed at that ultimately cost you and that that's where they're kind of wandering around trying to find their way again folks minnesota football is

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We've got quite a slate of home games in downtown Minneapolis, including Revenge Game for Cleveland when they return to Minnesota and plenty more visit tick pick.com slash insider today and use the promo code insider to save $10 on your first order for Minnesota football tickets. Right. And when we talk about excuses for being 0-2 or explanations, missing a field goal is certainly an explanation, but you're down two touchdowns to Cincinnati, which you never should have been because that's not a good football team. I watched a little bit of their game against the Bears,

and I thought this is the worst coached football team maybe in the league. And we saw that because Zach Taylor opened the door for the Vikings with a crazy decision that let them back in that game. So you were down your own 30, right? So you're down two touchdowns there to a really poor Cincinnati team that might win like six games this year. And then you're up by two touchdowns against Arizona and you let them back in the game and you let them come back and get the lead on you

to where you were having to play in this back and forth shootout, which I know is the NFL. When you play a very talented quarterback, this will happen that a two touchdown lead, it's not over. The NFL has become the Mac conference in this way, but at the same time, like that's what you paid for the defense to do is to get up 20 to seven and then lock it down, run Delvin cook and win. I mean, Mike Zimmer talked about being built to play in certain types of games. Like, aren't you built to get up 20 to seven and win that football game pretty handily and them not doing that. You're built to get up 21 to seven, 21 to seven. Yeah. Right. Right. Well, no, they're never really built to have a kicker who makes kicks. Um, I, I're never really built to have a kicker who makes kicks.

I haven't decided whether to really question that they didn't have any competition for Greg Joseph or not because I feel bad for him. But I mean, there was no competition in training camp and preseason for a guy that hadn't kicked in several years. So there is that. But I guess I think like, well, you know, you talk about these final drives and final plays where they went sideways for you. But there's plenty of other reasons that you lost these games where, yeah, it was only by four points. But there's also sort of more to that conversation. And if you do this again against Seattle, they'll beat you, too. And if you do it again against Cleveland, they'll beat you, too. And then we'll be talking about a completely lost season at that point. And, you know, I guess I want to end on this note, Brian, of just when we hear from fans each week reacting to the game, there's sort of this.

Is it a malaise like they expected the field goal to miss because they're Vikings fans? Somebody sent me a video of themselves in Arizona in the stands going, watch him miss this field goal. And then he missed the field goal to miss because they're Vikings fans. Somebody sent me a video of themselves in Arizona and the stands going, watch him miss this field goal. And then he missed the field goal. Right? So I don't fulfilling right now. I guess I just feel like if these next two games aren't wins, that the fans need something different. I don't know what it is exactly. It talks about the overboard. Is that what you're thinking? I don't know what it is exactly. You toss a body overboard. Is that what you're thinking?

I don't know. I mean, I just feel like as much as I would talk about Mike Zimmer being a very, very good coach and the front office, I think there's a lot to criticize there, maybe even more than the coaching. The quarterback is who he is. Right. But being stuck in this, just like whatever circle of hell it is where you get way behind in the playoff race and then you sort of win enough to get people a little excited but then you don't really go anywhere as a team because you're just not quite good enough I really think

it's hard on fans to deal with this like year after year after year without anything being different. I guess that's what I'm feeling today. Yeah, and if you look at it this way, you look at Chicago's situation. You have a young stud quarterback that they're grooming. You got the grizzled old veteran. The town just wants Justin Fields to be behind center from moment one. You got a coach slow playing it. Now Dalton gets hurt and now

you have that slight door opening for fields. The Vikings don't have that in their coaching staff, right? There's no head coach in waiting right now on that staff where you could say, look, it's 0-4, Zim, thanks for your years of service, but we just, we got to move on and we got to figure out what we've got behind you. And if we've got somebody that is capable of leading a team that's creative, that's innovative, that's doing something different. obviously he goes to it's not going to be clint kubiak so if you fire zimmer at oh and four what are you doing you're not really developing somebody behind him looking ahead to 2022 you're literally throwing a body to the wolves and that may be cathartic for a while but i don't know what it does i don't know what it accomplishes well i guess my question is not to be in right now for sure. And after 2019, you had Kevin Stefanski and George Payton standing right there. But I guess my point is, is is this like if I the Wilfs never talk, as you know, once a year, Mark Wilf talks and doesn't really say a whole lot that you can grab on to like he's not jerry jones out there and i respect it i respect an ownership you probably wouldn't want that yeah right right i i respect it i respect it i'm not criticizing them for not being like big in the media or anything else but they don't

have like leaks who are telling certain reporters things so we don't have a good sense for what the think about stuff but i guess if we were having a Diet Coke, I might say, is this working for you? Is this what you want? The way that this is going, where you sort of desperately put pieces back together in the off season, and then sort of, if anything goes wrong, your season goes sideways, but then you're good enough at quarterback and head coached to drag it back from the tank you're not going to tank you're dragging it back to competitiveness so you're in the hunt like we could kind of see how this ends up going right they probably split the next two games beat Detroit and Carolina seasons back on everybody second half of the season they win some they lose some they end up nine and eight right i mean this is you can already paint it and like i guess that's where you have to start

asking questions about like the whole direction of where you're at and i feel it every week when i get messages dms emails everything else where people like we're just doing the same thing over and over and over again and that's what it feels like and I know that this is a completely different feeling for if the guy makes the field goal, but you also blew it to touchdown lead. So there's, you know, I just want to come back to that. So I guess that that's, what's on my mind today, Mark. Well, if you have a sit down interview or, or moment with Mark and or Ziggy Wilf, first off,

I would hope you'd have something stronger than a diet Coke. Now I know you don't drink, but at least you have something there for them. Oh, Diet Dr. Pepper. Okay, because that conversation may need something a little stronger than a Diet Coke. You're right, though. We don't know what their thinking is. We know that they're passionate football fans, longtime Giants fans. They're New Jerseyans. They're land developers. They were able to get U.S. Bank Stadium built. They got TCO Performance Stadium built. They've got what they want from a real estate empire going. They also inherited Rick Spielman. They allowed Rick Spielman to let go of Leslie Frazier. They were responsible for firing.

The Wills fired Tice and Childers. They let Spielman make the decision on Frazier and bring in Zimmer. So you're at the point where who would make that decision? Is it Ziggy? Is it Mark? Is it a consensus? And when you make the decision to fire your head coach mid-season or fire your head coach and general manager after the regular season,

we don't know what direction they want to take this. Do they want to revamp the philosophy of how they play? Do they want a young media shiny object kind of guy to take over things are they do they understand the psychology of this fan base i would think after 15 years they better um it would be interesting to know what their thinking is because you don't even pan the you know half of these games there's always the picture of the king and the queen and the princess up in their box. And you can almost see them like giving the thumbs up or thumbs down to send in the lions, whether it's craft or obviously Jerry Jones or any of these owners. You don't see that with the Wills, with the Wills. You don't see that. And to their credit, they don't want to be that, but it's getting to the point now where they are going to have to put themselves out there more and they are going to have to provide a public face for where do you want this franchise to go?

And I don't know if that comes in January or if it comes in mid-October with a press conference saying we're going another direction. But ownership is going to have to start taking more ownership of where this is going. Right. And so I guess I just want to make the point that I'm not calling for a coach firing. It's not a thing that I will ever feel comfortable doing. But I think that being stuck in the mud with the same things happening year in and year out is when you start to say, is ownership going to begin having that conversation about like, we've seen the same thing year after year. And even though we believe he's a good coach, clearly they believe Mike Zimmer is a good coach. And I believe that too. Something just has to change sometimes. Right.

And so that's what's on my mind as they go into a very difficult game. Now, if they blow out Seattle, then we might be having a different conversation. We certainly would have if Greg Joseph had made the kick. We would have focused a lot more on that offensive line performance. But 0-2 is 0-2, Murph.

You can't change it. So check out your article at purpleinsider.substack.com. A familiar feeling, brilliantly written, Brian, and it captures exactly how I'm sure everybody was feeling. So thanks for your time. Another Monday morning MRF. We'll be doing it all season long, no matter what happens, Brian. All right.

We'll talk next week.