Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings going to be a running team?

Episode Date: August 6, 2025

Matthew Coller is joined by Mike Schopp for the return of the Purple Insider Fantasy Show to discuss the Vikings' new look offense and whether the addition of Jordan Mason means Minnesota is going to run the ball more.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar here. And I am extremely pleased to announce the return of the Purple Insider Fantasy Shope with Mike Shope, WGR 550, also ADP chasing now, doing a lot of fantasy stuff on your side, Mike. And we are going to dive into lots of projections, stories. lines and then reactions to stuff that's happening. So let's break down the whole preseason slate. No, I'm just kidding. But obviously on our first episode back, we need to talk about projecting Minnesota Vikings players, which I can add context. You can add fantasy context. It's going to be great. And then there's a lot of other things going on in the NFL that we want to dive into. So welcome back, Mike Show. I am very excited to be back. I enjoyed our time together last year, very much. And as we go into 2025, football-wise, the Vikings are one of the more interesting puzzles to figure out in the NFL. You've got an ambiguous backfield, which in fantasy can be a big win if you call it right or a big loss. I mean, it's a tricky one a little bit in Minnesota unlike certain teams that are more definitive. Justin Jefferson sitting out, Jordan

Addison suspended, and what is J.J. McCarthy? There's a lot. a lot to try to you know nail down here okay well since it's i mean it's your fantasy show here presented by our friends at fan duel this year by the way um where do you want to start like what is on your mind number one like you just named a bunch of stuff that is relevant to the minnesota vikings but what is the most interesting angle that you and your fantasy community is most talking about when it comes to the vikings it's probably best to start at the top and in terms of fantasy football that's clearly Justin Jefferson. His injury, and you can enlighten me as to just what is going on there, was enough to bump him down a couple of notches in the first round.

The first round this year, I'll defer to Evan Silva at Establish the Run, who said this to me, he's been at this a long time too, is the best ever, or one of the best ever, like first rounds. There's just almost no bad draft slot or bad idea. Everybody seems so locked in, whether that's Jamar Chase, Jefferson, C.D. Lamb, among the receivers up top, Bejohn Robinson, Barclay, Gibbs, McCaffrey, even, at running back. And if you're playing in tight-end premium formats, you can get to Brock Bowers and even Trey McBride pretty quickly. Then at the back half, you've got just an embarrassment of riches with neighbors and Nico Collins and Brian Thomas and St. Brown and Gentie and on it goes. So a move isn't really that

significant, but Jefferson, before he started sitting out, was most often the 102 behind chase. You draft Jefferson at one if you've drafted a bunch of chase already, like really chase is everybody's number one pick, you know, mostly. And then Jefferson came in right after, But now since he's, there's at least a little bit of uncertainty there. C.D. Lamb is right there next to him or even passed him by some rankings. Bejohn Robinson makes sense, too, depending on how you want to build it, what you see coming in rounds two and three at running back and receiver, respectively. So a slight move down on Jefferson, but I think you're going to say,

don't worry about what, you know, the current situation is, right? I, yeah, no, I wouldn't worry about the current situation at all. I mean, I think that this would be a extreme precautionary measure for a player that they know cannot miss time in the regular season or everybody is in a lot of trouble. I mean, especially the first three games without Jordan Edison, you really can't push it with Justin Jefferson. And it was a mild hamstring strain is the way that it's being described. But I think that it's not just some whatever tightness in the hamstring. I think it's also that Justin Jefferson started training camp about the first three, four days, as if he was trying to win the Super Bowl. I mean, this guy practices so hard.

It is something to see for fans over the years to come out to practice and watch Justin Jefferson Moss people left and right. But you can't stop him from doing that. And I think that if it was a normal player who maybe, you know, like had a regular practice and wasn't trying to prove himself every. single day that he would probably have been back even a little bit quicker than this. And they also have some really big joint practices coming up here in about 10 days against the New England Patriots. And they treat those like a, you remember how the third preseason game used to be called the dress rehearsal. Well, for Kevin O'Connell, the joint practices are the dress rehearsal. In the last couple of years, when Jefferson has participated in those, he is again, treated those like

they were a regular season game he is really i mean last year in cleveland he was going back and forth with their secondary catching long passes you know playing physical blocking all that sort of stuff so i just don't think that they want him to be doing too much and then be ready for those joint practices and then be ready for the season but this is also a guy who i mean if he missed every single practice during training camp and the joint practices and he's never played in a preseason game and then he woke up and had to play game one. I'd put 150 yards on him. I mean, that's, that's just Justin Jefferson.

So I don't see any concern whatsoever there. And I actually think with this Addison suspension, three games, I mean, that's a, that's a chunk of the season right there. They're going to have to lean on Jefferson even heavier because as of right now, unless they do something that surprises me at the third wide receiver spot, there's really not anybody who can step into his role. Jalen Naylor is not Jordan Addison and T.J. Hawkinson is a little banged up. I'd be slightly more concerned about that one than Justin Jefferson. And then you know, you're probably playing Josh Oliver a lot and throwing a lot of passes to your running back. So I mean, I think as always, it's going to be an enormous year for Jefferson. This entire offense is designed to throw the ball to Justin Jefferson. So that will be plan number one for J.J. McCarthy. Well, I think one of the more. prevalent talking points about Minnesota in fantasy circles this offseason has been whether

you want to predict that they'll run the ball more because they've been so heavily tilted toward the pass. And Jefferson, of course, I mean, think about our conversations a year ago. What is Sam Darnold going to be if he plays? McCarthy wasn't hurt yet. It's almost the same conversation when it comes to him. And, you know, everybody evokes the names of Nick Mullins and Josh Dobbs and like, no, it's really, don't worry about it. Whoever the quarterback is, it's the coach, it's the player. You'll get your numbers. And so I think that that's still the right, you know, starting point, at least for the

conversation. But maybe does all this add up to a Vikings team with the investment they made in Jordan Mason, Hawkinson, you mentioned, Addison, you mentioned, protecting Jefferson. I mean, this team won, what, 14 games last year? They're in a very tough division. They can't take too much for granted. But a team that has the biggest of aspirations wants to be a little bit cautious, I think, you know, especially with McCarthy, who's not technically a rookie, but he might as well be.

So that could mean a little bit of a tick down all this put together for Jefferson early on. And as I said, when you're drafting and you have all these elite options in those early draft slots, you know, you can break ties against Jefferson, I guess, but it still seems like, I mean, I draft hundreds of teams and I do not want to at all get left out on him. Yeah, I don't think you want to get left out on him. So I was just looking the over under number on Fanduil has actually gone down a little bit on J.J. McCarthy recently to just under 3,600 yards. And I think if he throws for 3,600 yards that they've either won every game by a lot and

they're running out the clock or they are missing the playoffs. I think they're always going to be a past first offense. It's always going to go to Justin Jefferson. And the games that I keep going back to in my brain when it comes to like, hey, what can Jefferson do for you is when Nick Mullins played? Like I and even like Sam, we don't even say that about Sam Darnold, who was one of the worst quarterbacks from 2018 to 2023 and then comes out and, you know, throws to Jefferson all the time and it works. But if it can work, you know, work for Nick Mullins, who not only did not have an arm, but also wasn't accurate at all, then I think it can work for J.J. McCarthy who does have an arm and is improving on the

accuracy. Maybe there's a little bit of a chemistry issue. Maybe there is a little bit more of an emphasis on the run game, which is, I think, a really great discussion about how they're going to work the backfield. And if there's one part of the offense that I have thought in training camp has looked awesome. And I understand they can't tackle. It is the run game because Donovan Jackson, their first round guard is a very large man and he's really athletic and he's been moving bodies out there. And then Will Fry's the right guard that they went and got. I mean, he's kind of main thing is pushing dudes around as a run blocker. That's an enormous upgrade from what they had in Dalton Reisner and Blake Brandel last year who rated as two of the worst run blocking guards

in the NFL. So it's an enormous upgrade there. And I think Mason has looked amazing. I mean, I've said, I've said beast mode a couple times watching him run because it looks like Marshaun Lynch with his size. It's got to be like 2.30. It's like 5.11. I made a comparison to Sean Alexander with that kind of bigger guy with nifty feet. And I'm like, am I being ridiculous?

And then I pull up his stats from last year and he's averaging, you know, five point something yards of carry. Like, no, I don't think it's ridiculous to think that Mason could end up taking a huge chunk of the yardage. I think that it's reflected in the Fanduil over under here, 725.5 yards for Aaron Jones that everybody kind of sees this, right? That Jordan Mason could take up a huge chunk of the snaps from Aaron Jones. And I think that's how it's going to be after this camp that he's had. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if that happened, especially after hearing you talk. Mason is a pretty, for what he is as somebody who, who,

walks into the situation seen as a compliment to Jones. He's a pretty hot commodity in fantasy. I've seen him. You know, he usually goes in around the seventh round or the eighth round, and he's moved up over the course of the offseason. Jones hasn't really moved down because, you know, he's a running back with age on him. And the investment in Mason sort of gives you some pause

as to what kind of Jones workload might be. So they go really often in drafts, you're deciding between the two because they're right next to each other in ADP and you have to sort of pick based on who you like more. And I always favor the younger guy, especially when he got money. Jones also did get, you know, he was retained and paid as well. And he's always been a great pass catcher, Jones. Just a question more as you get older, whether he can stay on the field. And the Vikings have somebody who, you know, he isn't. I've already forgotten his name last year's guy that we were drafting some

in the later rounds because he was just I'm getting I'm getting the wrong name in my head for who that is it's a Thai Chandler tie chanel that last year I was trying to wave red flags and get flashers do not don't draft don't draft it's the the coaches even the other day Kevin O'Connell got asked about Ty Chandler and he took a side swipe at him about a pass protection rep in practice and it's just like he just can't he can't stomach the idea of him being out there for several plays in a row where you might have to pass protect. So this is this is a different feeling. I mean, there's been a there has been a buzz within the coaching staff of wow, Jordan Mason. And the thing that I keep hearing with Mason and I and seeing

with my eyeballs, but the coach is talking about is that he's catching the ball. And Aaron Jones is special when it comes to catching the ball. There's very few running backs. You know, Everybody wants to say, oh, we could put our running back in the slot and he'll play wide receiver. Yeah, right. Okay. If he could, he'd do that. That's Jamar Chase is a running back who plays wide receiver and catches the ball. But Aaron Jones actually does it. They put him out wide. They run routes with him. And I mean, last year, he caught kind of like an underneath crossing route that you'd really only see a wide receiver run from from the outside wide spot. So that's different. But Mason is catching the ball out of the backfield. And that's why I think it's really going to be a one in one A because of course, as you mentioned, like, they love Aaron Jones. And Jones never does much in training camp. So that's another thing to keep in mind. Like they're using Mason a lot because part of their plan for Aaron Jones to keep him healthy is that he takes like two reps a day.

And then he's like, all right, keep him over there. Is he good? He's good. Okay. Keep him over there. But I think it could be a very, very good overall run game. And where you might have to decide between Mason and Jones is I think when they get to the goal they're going to give the ball to Jordan Mason a lot.

And I think when they're, you know, third down and eight and they need, you know, a checkdown option that can get a first down, it's going to be Aaron Jones, who's out there on third down. He's going to be catching a lot more passes. It might be a good pick either way. You might not be able to lose here. You'd maybe lean Mason with, you know, just the age of Jones. But, you know, running backs can always get banged up no matter who they are.

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So go to IDEO.com slash Purple Insider. that is I-D-E-O-U.com slash Purple Insider, 15% off. Again, I-D-E-O-U.com slash Purple Insider. Well, the market is often pretty sharp, and to put these guys right together, I think, takes all of what you said into account. I mean, the past catching option and talent of Jones that he's proven over the years is worth a lot in fantasy football. I was just checking my exposures on the two guys, and at Mason, I'm at 9%. which is barely over the sort of the equilibrium if you drafted all your teams on auto draft. In theory, you'd have 8.3% of everybody.

And so for me, Mason comes in a little bit above that and Jones well below. I think if you really want to get granular, when you're building your team, you draft a Josh Jacobs late second or James Connor or Alvin Camara, four or five turn or whatever Connor is. I mean, close to that. and then you might want a little bit of a younger option. That's where I will start drafting some of the rookies. Travion Henderson, for one in New England, is a six, seven round pick, if not earlier.

But if you've started with wide receivers and you maybe took a flyer on RJ Harvey in Denver, you want a little bit more security at that position than Jones feels a little bit more appropriate. So you really can do either thing, and I'm just here to report that in fantasy drafts, So far in the markets, they're almost the same price. A big R.J. Harvey guy here, by the way. Oh, really? I, well, I am a big fan of him coming out. But let's talk McCarthy here because I mentioned it's, let me get to the exact number here.

It's 3,575.5 yards on Fanduel right now for his over under. I would easily go with the over for that because I think they're going to play in a lot of games where you need to pass the football. I think that Kevin O'Connell one time threw over 30 passes with Josh Dobbs, despite the fact that he had thrown three interceptions and that they were running well against Chicago that night. Like this is, it's a passing offense. And it's always going to be the pass sets up the run. And that's just how it's going to work. And maybe for the beginning of the season, there might be a couple games where you go like, oh, you know, McCarthy only threw for 175 in that win. And they handed off 37 times. I don't think.

that's going to happen very often though that was kind of like that with darnold last year they beat the texans they beat the 49ers kind of handily and they ran a lot and was like oh is is o'connell becoming a running no it was just kind of how the game script played out but where is the fantasy community on j j mccarthy because i have seen way more of jay mccarthy than the rest of the nation watching him practice every day and i don't really know how to figure this out of exactly what he's going to be. I would go with more yardage than that. But as far as, I mean, what kind of stats he's going to put up, I think it's, it's pretty hard to say right now. Yeah. Well, he is quarterback 16, as I'm looking at it now, McCarthy. And there's

always with these things, these are tournament skewed rankings, you know, from the fantasy streets. And it's always like the stacking aspect of it. And with McCartney, there's a lot there. I mean, Jefferson goes in the first round, Addison and Hawkinson already, even Aaron Jones. Not much after those guys. It's always been a pretty narrow target tree, the Vikings. But, you know, you want McCarthy, you can want McCarthy on a team with, with those, you know, options. So that's, that's pretty easy if you've done that. The yardage number is interesting. And it does, I always want to respect the betting markets, you know, like they're, they're not fools. and that number is only slightly lower than Josh Allen's total last year when he won the MVP. Of course, he's unique. He runs for touchdowns and that team without anything close to a dominant receiver. He was able to pull off that season.

But it's not like if the Vikings have the same defense and they're, you know, McCarthy in college, of course, came into the league as somebody that was not, that was the question on him is like how good is he actually Michigan didn't even really need him to throw the ball very much maybe you do get all put together a stat line that's just not exactly a pinball machine kind of kind of stat line and so you're right he doesn't have to do so much to beat that number but I'd be a little wary if the Vikings are so the roster seems like better than ever really like better than last year, if they're so good and maybe Detroit falters a little bit, maybe Chicago doesn't get there, maybe Green Bay is still the same Green Bay, then you could be looking at a team that's ahead all the

time and wanting to just sort of gradually get McCarthy into a place where he's more comfortable, which could mean lower totals early on. So I don't have a strong lean either way on that. I don't think it's a no-brainer to bet the over on McCarthy because of these factors. But, I mean, if you like the player, which you can, and I think everything you've said for a long time, and we've seen from Kevin O'Connell is correct, then you can get a bigger number there pretty easily. But really, you might need the defense to crack

and to be down in games to get there, which isn't a great time. You know, it's not optimal for the team, of course. Right. And that is a great argument. I mean, because the Vikings in 2017 won 13 games with Case Keenham, and he threw for, you know, just over 3,000 yards. And a lot of those games, they got ahead. And then they ran the ball and they played defense and they had the number one

passing and running defense in the NFL. And that was the right way to win football games that year. That might be the right way to win football games this year. Now it depends a little bit on health. The secondary, I think, has looked really good so far in training camp. That was kind of the biggest question coming in. But Isaiah Rogers, who they went and got as a free agent, I think has looked excellent.

They brought back Byron Murphy. So they're top to bottom probably as strong. If defenses are about their weaknesses, there's just very few. There is strong, a complete team on defense as you're going to find. And then they have other dudes who can rotate in and Dallas Turner is a big part of this. And he's had an excellent training camp. So that might dictate how many yards he ends up getting. Somebody brought this up this season up to me the other day of Alex Smith 2011.

And I know when you say Alex Smith, people like, oh, Alex Smith, but I mean, the guy won a ton of football games and was this close to going to the Super Bowl. So, but anything, anything short of Brady and Manning that we compare J.J. McCarthy to is like not acceptable these days. But his season in 2011 where he played for Jim Harbaugh and they ran a lot. He threw 445 passes for 3,100 yards, 17 touchdowns, five picks. And they ran the heck out of the ball with Frank Gore. And they played the heck out of their defense. And they were really good and won games that way. I just. I'm going to have to see it to believe it with Kevin O'Connell that he could have a

quarterback that doesn't throw for pressing 4,000 yards. I mean, I think it's a good number for someone who's completely unproven. It's just, can that man really stop throwing the football all the time? I don't know, even if his run game is dominant. Like, this is what he's here for to be that guy. Yeah. I guess the bet then you make is on that. And all sort of the everything put together, what comes out of the blend.

lender. And if they're not as tremendous on defense and if the coach can't help himself or any combination of like factors, then you should get more of an air assault. But there's enough uncertainty about whether the player can do it and these other things to sort of keep him where he's at in the market. I think in terms of fantasy drafts, I mean, he's, you're not going to just go, go alone with J.J. McCarthy. You're going to have one of the several interesting, exciting quarterbacks in that range that people are into.

And I've drafted a lot of teams with two of Prescott, Fields, Drake May, Caleb Williams, Gough even, McCarthy is right there, Brock Purdy is right there. Any two of those guys, when we talked last year about building a team,

you talk about home leagues. And if you're drafting one of the so-called elite quarterbacks, you don't need a backup. I mean, you just wouldn't want to clog a roster spot with a Tua or somebody that's down, even like Justin Herbert. If you drafted Lamar Jackson, he's your quarterback every week. That's it.

So you don't need to worry about a QB2. But I think it's a very viable strategy this year to sort of wait. I mean, you can, you don't get beat drafting those elite quarterbacks usually, but you can also wait into that range from like fields to McCarthy in there. you've got a couple of several interesting options. And having two of those guys on your team is a, it feels good. How about we play a little, a little like, would you rather game with J.J. McCarthy with some other quarterbacks.

Like, would you rather have quarterback blank or J.J. McCarthy for this year? And we're only talking about stat lines. We're not talking about futures and cap hits and development or anything else. We are talking about just purely J.J. McCarthy's numbers versus this guy. How about Bryce Young? Would you rather have JJ McCarthy or Bryce Young for 2025? McCarthy for me, I think Young is interesting.

When I say interesting all the time, I usually mean like in a good way, by the way. It's one of my words. But I like what that is shaping up to look like. Even Hunter Renfro actually is kind of making some noise, just being brought on late. So that was a kind of a shocker last year that Young went back in and looked as good as he did. But I'd rather, I feel like the decision is almost between Young and O'Connell. And I'd rather be on Minnesota. Yeah, I think so too.

And I also think that's a Justin Jefferson question. And, you know, McMillan, I think is sounds like he's doing really well there. And he's an exciting young receiver. But Justin Jefferson. How about Caleb Williams? Would you rather have J.J. McCarthy or Caleb Williams for this year? Because by the time Caleb Williams gets to the season, I think Ben Johnson might stab him with a trident. I mean, it just sounds like every day of practice is some sort of Will Ferrell skit where he's throwing a chair in a locker room at Caleb Williams.

I don't know what's going on exactly, but still Ben Johnson's offenses have had a lot of success in the past. reluctantly i will say williams williams last year was such a dream of the so-called best set up for a rookie quarterback in history with keenan allen and dj more and roma dunze and cole commet and dandre swift and it was a disaster and i do agree with the the crowd that blames williams for a lot of that i mean coaching is still super important but but they just could not execute anything on that offense. They had, I saw it from Warren Sharp, Matthew, they averaged how many yards per opening drive over the course of the season?

Like what would be bad? You know, you get maybe on average. You get a first down. You have a couple of big plays. They averaged 10 yards per opening drive for the entire season. I mean, that's coaching, heavily coaching. Like how do you scripted play? How do you start? Preparation. And the bears were just a mess. So I'm reluctantly betting yes on them. It could feel terrible by Halloween, like just or even sooner. Like this was a terrible bet. But there still is so much talent. They went tight end receiver picks one and two in their draft, Loveland and then Luther Burden. O'Donze sounds like he's really killing it so far. And I mean, the, the,

cognitive dissonance is that we've never seen the bears have a good passing offense in our lifetimes. But Williams gets the nod for me. There's a lot to pair him with to stack him with, but it doesn't feel like a sure thing. And I wonder just how much he's going to run. I think we will see a little more J.J. McCarthy scrambling because he is a pocket quarterback, but he's fast. I mean, once he gets out, he can really run. But, you know, Caleb Williams is super fast and we'll probably not see the field all that well and have to run more than he wants to run. That could be a part of it. I think I'd probably just go as of the way things are looking right now with Chicago camp. Maybe I'm overrating that. Probably am, but I would probably go with J.J. McCarthy just because he's got

Kevin O'Connell and we have a big sample size of how that works. Whereas I just, I don't know if the issue with sacks can be resolved. I mean, I think about guys who had horrible sack problems early in their career. And they never really fixed it. Like Deshawn Watson never really fixed it. He made it better, but he didn't really fix it. And Ryan Tannahill was another guy that they basically had to hand off and just run bootlegs to get him not to get sacked constantly in Tennessee. And then when they didn't have Derek Henry, he went back to being sack constantly. Like there's just something to that. And there's an injury risk there, I think eventually with Caleb Williams as well. He's going to have to prove it to me. Now, stick it with that theme, though.

How about, how about Drake May? Isn't he a fantasy darling this year? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Remember, too, like the point we've talked about with Minnesota and their, their defense and their roster. I mean, in fantasy, remember Blake Bordles, you want guys that are losing.

And the Bears might end up being a team that that's a very tough division, of course, that the Vikings are also in, have to throw the ball a lot. This could be New England. I can't find anybody. I'm looking. I can't find anybody who's not in on Drake May. and I bought in when he was coming into the league and he was fine I guess they didn't beat anybody New England but he was fine it's just like he has convinced everybody that he's it

and so I'm not different I mean for me a lot of how I draft is reliant on how people are talking and you know certain people that I respect the most and then also what does the consensus say and try to not be a slave to that, but I'm not, you know, crushing film on these guys, I should tell you. But May is just everybody's guy. And I'm not sure we've seen enough to really know that. I'm also not as excited about Mike Vrable as I think maybe everybody else is. I mean, when he won, he won plenty, but when he won in Tennessee, you mentioned Tannahill, like that was about Henry and, you know, being sort of a tough guy kind of team, and where does that leave May? He's an athlete, and they've done a lot for his weapons.

Stefan Diggs, I can imagine Diggs being good, even at his age and coming off an ACL injury, primary target, Kyle Williams, a rookie, and then an assortment of young, talented players that maybe one of them sort of gets plugged in and makes it work. And then Hunter Henry. So I'm in on May. May is my choice here by a sliver over McCarthy. But I think the most interesting thing on him is how few detractors there are. Yeah. And maybe it just reminds, I know it does for me a little bit,

reminds everyone of Joe Burrow in that first year when he played for Cincinnati and he got banged up and their team was horrible. And then like the team took a big step. I think they had the same coach. But they made a lot of roster moves. And then he took that huge step. It became an elite quarterback at that point. And, uh, yeah, it does, if you're going to be great, it often does happen pretty

quick when it comes to second or third year. Like you usually take a pretty fast jump. And I would buy into last year that their coaching staff was wildly incompetent. Yes. Um, I, I buy that less actually with Chicago, which may sound weird because Iber Flus doesn't know how to call a time out on Thanksgiving, but, um, I thought like Shane Waldron had some success before. and it looked to me like Caleb Williams just didn't know what to do with the football.

And even when they changed play callers, he didn't know what to do with the football. Whereas Drake May, you just got nothing. I think the receivers, the offensive line was one of the worst in the entire NFL. I think they've made enough steps forward from a roster perspective that he could be, and a coaching perspective that he could take that big step. But it also could be more incremental with him than someone like Burrow, who just suddenly got Jamar Chase, you know, top two. receiver in the NFL and like, okay, off you go.

I don't think that that happened for him. I like Kyle Williams. I was kind of a Kyle Williams guy coming out, but I mean, come on. Like, we're not talking about Jamar Chase here that he's got still really lacking in a true top target. The only reason for me is I think that Drake May might run for a bunch of touchdowns. He's such a scrambler that that might put him ahead of someone like J.J. McCarthy. I think McCarthy probably still plays better.

And by the way, I'm New England. If you go through their schedule, you can see, like, there being eight and three or something. Like, they have a super easy schedule and it's backloaded. They have tougher games late. They have Buffalo in week five. But it's not crazy to think that they'll be ahead of the sticks, so to speak, in the standings. And, you know, do with that what you want. Maybe that's not great for him necessarily.

Could be like Minnesota, where they're a little bit more cautious or just he's not having to be in, games where he has to throw 50 passes. But that's the kind of schedule they have, one of the easiest in the NFL. Okay, I want to get to two more. So we'll do them at the same time because they're both like adjacent to J.J. McCarthy. And that would be Sam Darnold and also Michael Penix. It's still, you know, a curiosity. I don't think Kevin O'Connell will ever tell anyone which guy he had higher on his draft board, whether it was Pennix or McCarthy, if they had both been there when they were going to pick. So they didn't. get that chance. And then they move on from Sam Darnold after such an incredible season last

year, which I think as of this moment, as of August 6th, I would not say that they regret their decision, especially when you look at the roster. When you look at the roster and you go, they were able to spend many, many, many, many millions of dollars on this roster because of J.J. McCarthy's contract. At the same time, you know, Sam Darnold was really excellent last year, goes to a Seattle team that might not be quite as good. And Michael Pennix is a total wildcard. I think that team has a ton of talent around him. And it feels like we've been saying this about Atlanta for like, I don't know how many years. Hey, you know, they've got a lot of talent, but they just need a quarterback to get it there. That's why we'll give Kirk a hundred million dollars. But now it is Michael

Penix's time. So how about the three there? Of the three, would it be McCarthy, Darnold, or Pennix? First, I'll say, no offense to O'Connell, but you might get your answer to that question about who he would have drafted in a couple of years, depending on how this goes. The bills were said to have really wanted Dak Prescott the one year where they drafted Cardale Jones. But they wanted him so badly that they would not move up five spots in the end of the supplemental section of the fourth round. It's just sort of how stories get told. And that can go the other way too. So again, no offense to the coach, but maybe it'll depend on how this works out. I think on Pennix, it's interesting to me that he's like a round or two later than McCarthy

because I think it's almost the same bet with the Falcons, although they did draft two edge rushers in the first round. But it's not as strong on paper or defense as Minnesota. So They could really push it, which could be great for his numbers. It was for cousins when he was playing. And I like the player just as much as McCarthy. So he's a strong bet for me. Like ADP is around 140. Pennix.

Again, there are so many quarterbacks in there you can dabble with. When you said adjacent to McCarthy, here are two guys. I thought you're going to say golf and love because they're in the division. But, you know, they're just, they're not too far. outside of that same range. You can do almost anything. And it for me mostly depends on who's already on my team, Mayfield, even at a more expensive price. So I think Pennix is fine, and I'm optimistic there. And that could really be a fun pinbally kind of offense with Robinson, playing in a dome almost every week. There's a lot to like there. I'm worried for

Darnold. From the get-go, the idea that Seattle would be a continuation of what he did for Minnesota. I just don't think so. You know, and your viewers and listeners know, he's one player from a clean pocket. I mean, he's elite. And under pressure, it's kind of a disaster. And everybody has Seattle's line ranked low. So they're not in the dome. I mean, he's not terrible. But he's much cheaper in drafts. And I think the market knows why. Because not only could it just be, end up just being a sack fest in that backfield. There's not much for weapons. Nobody's really buying Cooper Cup anymore.

JSN is really good. They might want to run the ball a ton with Kenneth Walker or Charbonnet, but there's not a lot for weapons. They cut Noah Fant if that matters. And Jalen Milrow, being there in the background, is an interesting long shot in fantasy. I mean, in tournaments, you can't really expect many games, but you might end up getting those late season games

if they have a bad season to see what they've got. The contract isn't too binding with Darnold. And I admit to taking some Milro because the fantasy, if you will, of getting into those playoff weeks with a guy like that who can run for 100 yards at any time in a game is kind of exciting. But there's no, as I say that, I mean, there's no real indication that Darnold is, you know, under threat at the position.

I just don't, I'm not betting on. him holding up too well. So on both guys, Pennix's number is 3,350.5 yards on Fandul and Darnold's is 3,400 yards. So I guess even though I was saying that, you know, McCarthy's is a little low, I guess they are really leaning into chaos. He's going to throw the ball there because they're higher than these two guys. I would definitely be higher on Michael Pennix than that. I think he's going to chuck the ball over the yard. In fact, last year when you watch the play, he showed no fear whatsoever. Like, I'm the quarterback now. I'm going to whip this thing into tight windows, push it downfield. It was very impressive. But Sam Darnold's an interesting conversation because

it's, it is a thing of how much do you believe that he was just pumped up by the Minnesota situation? How much is it that it was just Jefferson? It was just KOC. And, you know, I will say that the Vikings offensive line fell off the face of the earth after Christian Darrasaw went out. And he navigated a lot of those muddy pockets and pressures and things in the regular season, well, when push came to shove at the end of the year, it did not happen. And, you know, it was just a complete bloodbath in the playoffs. But I think that he's a much better quarterback than the guy that was in Carolina or New York. And I don't think he's as good of a quarterback as we saw from last year. But I still think he could be good. And I think that that that team has a good

defense and that they are going to run a lot from a fantasy perspective. I wouldn't do it. with Sam Darnold. I think they're going to hang in games, but I don't think they're going to get different quarterback play overall than what they had from Gino Smith. It's going to be pretty similar where he's got big games and big plays and then he's got a lot of sacks and he's got miscues and the offensive line is a problem. So I think that it's probably like a nine win type of team with a pretty average kind of quarterback season. Pennix would be the one where you could see 4,500 yards, 30-something touchdowns, big numbers. I still don't believe in that defense, by the way.

They can trade all the first-round picks they want for the 25th overall edge rusher or something. Terrible. And I know this too from edge rushers and watching Dallas Turner. If they are drafted in the top five, they can come into the league and succeed. If they're not, the track record on those guys, they have to develop. It's usually not even until year two or year three, where the, you know, guy who's drafted anywhere past the top 15 ends up developing. So I still think that Atlanta's defense is going to stink, which means Michael Pennex putting

up a lot of big yards. So you're there in Buffalo. What is the most prevalent fantasy discussion in Buffalo? I mean, James Cook has no other real option than to sign a contract or play or whatever. Like some of these hold out hold ins, you're kind of like, I don't really know what's being gained here by any of this because you're just not like improving your situation or theirs by just sitting out these days when it comes to that sort of thing. So is he going to be the guy who holds out all year, gets the contract in the last day and then pulls his hamstring in the first game? Or is that the big discussion there, fantasy connected?

It's the biggest discussion I think about the team in general is Cook. and it's the age-old conversation about what the running backs value to a team really is. When he missed his one game last year, Ray Davis put up 140 total yards or something, and they beat the Jets and like, what's the difference? That's one game. I think Cook is fine. I've never loved him as a player. He went from two rushing touchdowns to 16, and that's bonkers.

There's almost no way he repeats that. What does he do? we went from his, at least through the public, the social media world, threatening a holdout to showing up like the so-called good soldier and then, you know, pulling the rug on Sunday and now he's just watching practice. And that was the case again today on Wednesday, the 6th.

So how much leverage does he have? Who knows? It surprises me a little bit, Matt, that the bills didn't come to some sort of compromise. with him because I think, you know, he's young enough. They, he scored 18 touchdowns last year, regular season. He made a monster play in the AFC championship. They still lost, but it was an incredible play that would have been remembered for a long

time, had the Bills won, I think. So he's good enough to be worth more than he's getting, I suppose. But what happens? I doubt very much it goes into the season. He really does not have the kind of power where he can, you know, It's a huge risk, let's just say, financially, professionally. His brother in Minnesota did his dance in this kind of area, too, Delvin Cook over in his time.

Cook is a big one. The fantasy community, I'll just say quickly, did not, as you would expect, I would think, overreact to the touchdowns because we're usually playing, betting against spike ears in touchdowns, good or bad. And so he's been sitting late third at the earth. earliest. And this won't help him to hold in. Sorry, I'm still getting used to that term. Khalil Shakir's injury is big. He's their number one drafted receiver. That's usually around six or seven. High ankle sprain is not great. You don't want to hear that early in camp because

that can be the kind of thing that doesn't go away. They're not sure. He'll be ready for week one against Baltimore on Sunday night in the opener. And that is interesting for fantasy because that opens up some room you would think for a couple of other guys. Dalton Kincaid has been kind of squeezed here. Knox plays the tight end position with his hand down, and Kincaid is more of a slot receiver, but Shakir has been so good in that role. There's not really much space or hasn't been for Kincaid.

Then you have Curtis Samuel and Elijah Moore. All the bills wide receivers really should be slot receivers. That's who they are, I think, at best. And so I don't think it'll be Keyon Coleman moving inside. But with Shakir out all the way up until the opener, maybe we'll be watching to see what they show in the preseason if that even matters, right? That's also a question. What is it that you're really, what can you really trust? But I think they'll want to try some different guys in there.

Elijah Moore could be somebody who his career finally takes off because of this injury. So these are all very cheap fantasy bets, Samuel and more. And I've been taking them since Shakir's injury, pretty much in every draft. This kind of reminds me of like the Carolina teams with Cam Newton that just had no wide receivers. And they were like, Cam, just why don't you just do everything, just do everything and take care of it. It'll be fine. But at least they had Greg Olson. So he had somebody to throw to, I don't know.

I, you know, I was thinking about how, you know, the general manager there called our, our friend. uh, Jeremy white cursed him out on the air about, uh, you know, the complaining about not drafting a receiver. And then your top receiver gets hurt right away. And you're like, oh, yeah, let's take a look at the old depth chart there, friend. You got this guy who didn't work out in another place. This guy hasn't worked out in three other places, uh, a draft pick that hasn't looked that good for you. Maybe there was some validity to the idea of going out and getting another wide receiver. It did not hurt them so much last year until they really, really, really needed it in the biggest moment. And then it hurt them. And I don't know, maybe maybe this

year it does because if Shakir is banged up and you're right about those high ankle things, like they don't go away. That's not something that's just like, and snap your fingers, he's back to 100% like Madden. Like that kind of lives with you for the entire season. I wonder if they've flown a little too close to the sun here with this wide receiver thing of just saying that Josh Allen can work his magic and make everybody a special boy out there. I don't know if that's really going to be the case. And I mean, if you're talking about, you know, giving James Cook a bunch of money and maybe this is just like a, you know, fantasy play.

This is our fantasy show. So I could be a little bit on the ridiculous side. But like, why not just go get D.K. Metcalf then? Like there were receivers out there. Why not Devante Adams? Why not like somebody who is proven who can get open and catch the football or, I mean, I'm envisioning 70 yard bombs to D.K. Metcalf. Like, I don't know.

That seems good to me much better than paying. a running back and then bringing in a bunch of guys who you're hoping and dreaming can be good wide receivers. It's just, it's so much the opposite approach. Why does everyone want their quarterback in Minnesota? Like, I don't know, because they got Jefferson first rounder, Addison first rounder. They just drafted another guy. They developed another guy. They traded a second rounder for T.J. Hawkinson. Like, I'm thinking there might be something. Kevin O'Connell, the quarterback whisper, which I don't disagree with, but also like gestures at weapons. Like he, he gets it.

Yeah, and I mean, both strategies, philosophies have worked in their own way. I'm, I'm with you. I mean, I'm with Jeremy. I'm with the guys here at my station, WGR that have been to some extent or another complaining about the Bill's lack of talent at wide receiver this whole time. Kincaid and Coleman are both shots at it. I mean, those are a first round pick and then the first pick of the second round last year. So it's not entirely a lack of trying.

And to Tyler Dunn at GoLong TD on this subject, a few days after Bean came on our station, kind of hot, he said to Tyler in so many words, how can people say I haven't addressed wide receiver? I signed Joshua Palmer. And the world went, okay. I mean, just maybe he's good. He's said to be a good separator and the bills don't have that.

So look, they, They set a franchise record in points last year in his defense. They averaged 30 points a game. They were a play away from getting to the Super Bowl that's happened before. And they did it. They ran for 30 touchdowns. Like they did it with six offensive linemen on the field, not the most of any team, but plenty. They became a bully.

And they've always been a team that will beat you bad if you can't keep up. They've lost their close games, but if you're not on their level, they'll beat you bad. And that's to the running game. and they ended up getting their quarterback an MVP award with their leading touchdown catcher being Mack Hollins at five. I mean, that's insane. So can you really blame them? I might.

I think it's risky, but can you really blame them if they don't, if they think they can run it back. Yeah, that's my thing is that last year might be, you know, studied at MIT or whatever for how it actually happened. I mean, because it's such an impossible way to do it, I don't know if you can repeat that time in and time out, you know, some years the dropped interceptions get caught and things like that that they've been last year. And there's, you know,

things like that. So, uh, well, I won't be drafted too many Buffalo Bills wide receivers in fantasy. That is for sure. But I am thrilled to be back with you, Mike, uh, APP chasing the deep end fantasy football show and your work now, WGR 550. I can see you guys on, on Twitter streaming live, uh, and on YouTube and stuff. So good for you. You've been welcomed to my world of streaming and stuff like that. So I'm looking forward to getting together with you each week going forward here for our Fandul Fantasy Football show. Me too very much. ADP chasing is a big deal.

That's Tuesday mornings at 10 Eastern. And if you really want to get serious about fantasy, this is for people who are drafting a lot or might just want to, if you will, evolve to that plays in life. Well, we lost Mike right there at the end, but ADP chasing is what he was talking about. We'll just wrap it up there. Thanks, everybody, for watching, and we'll catch you later.