Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings going to draft a cornerback? Did ownership make Rick do it? Those and other Viking fan questions answered

Episode Date: March 27, 2022

Matthew Coller and WCCO Radio's Paul Hodowanic answers some great questions that fans sent in for the Friday Mailbag. Which moves in the past might have been influenced by ownership? Should the Vikings be looking for cornerbacks to fill their immediate need in the draft? How much better at coaching will Kevin O'Connell be? Plus a scouting report madlib. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar, along with Paul Hodowanek from WCCO Radio. And Paul, I'm going to be hosting on the show again in for Henry Lake this Thursday night. So everybody can look forward to that. So Henry could go watch the tournament or something. He literally took time off so he could go watch the tournament. To do his job. That's dedication right there.

Good for him. So, okay. I was looking through the Friday mailbag the other day, which is on the website. You can go to purpleinsider.com and you can find it there. You can sign up, subscribe. And that is subscriber only. There's some other of our content that gets shared by Bring Me the News. But the Friday mailbag is subscriber only.

And I love it because the questions are always so good from Vikings fans. So I wanted to go through a few of these because they're just good. And then we can do a scouting report Mad Lib. I made another one. We started doing that the other day on the show, and the feedback was positive, even as bad and ridiculous as it was. So we'll get to another one of those. But I'm just going to get right into these fan questions,

and we can answer them, Paul. I want to start out with another one of those. But I'm just going to get right into these fan questions, and we can answer them, Paul. I want to start out with this one right here. This is more of a request. This is from at Kai Baxter. More of a request. Can we get a podcast breaking down all the Spielman moves that make a whole lot more sense if ownership is involved? This is a really interesting question of just how things have gone this offseason it's like our

biggest revelation has been oh there might have been way more ownership involvement than we expected and paul for a long time we tried to figure out like how involved is ownership like what do they think what do they feel about the team, the players? And Mark Wilf talks so rarely and Ziggy Wilf never talks that we haven't had any sense for this. And it only started to come together with the fact that they were looking to trade Kirk Cousins, but then it was nixed that they could not accept any of the deals. And then we end up with all the same players coming back on new contracts. And the thing that has really come together for me is they lost all of their

negotiations against players in recent years, or almost all of them. And I think that people knew, like people on the agent side, they knew, for example, that Delvin Cook like was they weren't going to let him go and that Kyle Rudolph knew they were not going to let me go. That was going back to 2019. And even, you know, trades and things like that where they gave up too much all the time. I don't know that I could pin down which moves would be directly this or directly that. But it feels like, of course, the biggest one, the Kirk Cousins, Yannick Ngakwe came to mind, the Cook and Rudolph things. It feels like everything past 2017 would have more of the feel of, this is what we want you to try to do.

And the moves started to be different after 2017 so i guess that my answer is more kind of like broadly that that is the case uh that the the wilf sort of sniffed in the air the possibility of taking that 2017 team and getting it to a super bowl and that's when the moves got more desperate and started to feel like okay uh what are you guys doing exactly for the future? And the answer was nothing for the future. It was just all in, all in, all in. Yeah, I agree with you. I think the first one obviously has to be the Kirk Cousins deal. I think that's the most obvious one. I mean, Mike Zimmer even showed some contempt for it as it was happening, you could kind of tell. So obviously Zimmer's kind of maybe a separate part

of this question from him and Spielman, but I think it's entirely possible that the ownership saw what happened in 2017, that they almost hosted a Super Bowl in their own building, that they saw the just excitement, probably the amount of revenue that that brought in, just everything that happened from that 2017 team. And I don't blame them. They probably were like, we need to do that again. That was amazing.

We need to do everything humanly possible to get right back there. And probably that went away from maybe Spielman's idea of how to build the team and how to go about it. So yeah, the Kirk Cousins first deal and then extension would make sense. Maybe that, you know, everyone considers Kirk Cousins this amazing businessman, but maybe he had a little bit of help from some, a couple very rich businessmen that own the Vikings organization because he realized that they liked him and that they were going to do what it took to keep him. And he was able to kind of string along these deals.

That's entirely possible. I think the Yannick Ngakwe trade has to be up there as well. And then just some of the smaller trades, like the Kari Vedvik trade or the Chris Herndon trade. Rick Spielman knows value. He's been in this position for, what, 16 years? He didn't just suddenly one day wake up and say, yeah, well, people trade fifth rounders for kickers.

That's just kind of what we do. one day wake up and say, yeah, well, you know, people trade fifth rounders for kickers. Like, that's just kind of what we do. Like, like I think now that we can reflect on it and kind of hear his comments and then maybe kind of infer what could be happening with Kweisi, you can look back at just some of those smaller deals and say, Rick knew value. He loved those draft picks. Like they were children. Why was he going to give it up for some random kicker or for a tight end that didn't work for the Jets? And I think it's safe to say, well, maybe it wasn't Rick who pushed them for that. Maybe the owners came to training camp, saw a bunch of missed kicks, and said, Rick, I need you to go get me a kicker and not just a one-off scrap heap.

Like, I need you to give up something to go get a kicker. Or, Rick, we don't have a tight end. Like, I need you, give up something to go get a kicker or Rick, we don't have a tight end. Like I need you this Herndon guy. He's from New York. We're New York guys. We've heard of his name out there. Maybe I had him on fantasy.

Like we need him trade, whatever you need to do to get him. Like some of those things. Well, maybe, maybe that's not exactly what happened, but you can make sense of some of the more confounding, confusing moves that have been made, especially with draft capital, because we know Spielman doesn't like to just give those things up for guys. And so, yeah, those moves make more sense.

The Ngakwe moves make more sense. And again, it probably wasn't 100% ownership. I don't mean want to make this out like they're meddling in every part of the business at all times but i think when you win and you get so close to that super bowl you can kind of start to go crazy because you're like we were so close and we need to get there again we need to do everything that we can humanly possible and i think it may have just they took the wrong shots they took the wrong um you know the the wrong the darts just didn't hit the dart board the way they wanted to. And maybe they could have, and maybe things look differently, but now we're here and it seems like there's not a lot of direction.

Yeah, I think it's direct and indirect pressure. So something like a Kirk Cousins extension after 2019, which is where they could have hit the reset button on the entire organization because their cap was messed up and they had to let all those players go. Guys who were stars two years before that had started to age, like Linval Joseph, Xavier Rhodes, and someone like Trey Waynes wasn't going to resign. There was a handful of others. Mackenzie Alexander didn't want to resign, and the defense completely came apart. And that was the point to start the process of moving on and rebuilding your team because it had completely come apart. And that was the point to start the process of moving on and rebuilding your team because it had completely come apart. But only if you're allowed to do that. Now, what's difficult here is that it gives maybe Rick Spielman too much of a pass. And he just keeps trying to infer really

strongly that there was this big gap between what ownership wanted to do and what Mike Zimmer wanted to do. He was even on another interview on the Lindsay Rhodes show. She used to be on NFL network. I think she's with XM now. And he was talking about how coaching and ownership has to understand if you sign an expensive quarterback that we're probably going to have a few backup level players on the field. It was just like Rick blink twice if they were making you do it. Right. I mean, so, but also a trade like Chris Herndon, I mean, that's one where I doubt the Wilfs would know who Chris Herndon is. And I mean, maybe you're right about the New York connection, but I was assuming you were saying that sort of tongue in cheek and, but cheek. But it's the general pressure of you're going into this season and we all knew that you

guys are under the gun and it's possible that they could fire both or one of you at the end of the year and you just had a tight end go down. We got to take a swing to try to get another tight end. And it doesn't devastate the franchise, just like Corey Bedvik didn't devastate the franchise. But it just the moves became less wise and less savvy as we went along. And I think that the indirect pressure was probably there. And then there was probably I mean, I think that Spielman is saying it loud enough that there was direct pressure to keep Kirk Cousins. The original signing, I would never say that it was a ridiculous idea or anything like that to originally sign Kirk Cousins because I get it. I get where everybody was coming from. Let's sign this quarterback. He's got great numbers in

Washington. We're a much more stable and better franchise than them. We have a number one defense, which actually did play pretty well in 2018. So it's not like that defense just completely came apart at the seams. All of that, you got it, why you would want to do it. It was the second extension that really made it feel like, okay, this must be from them still trying to live out that dream. And then the Anthony Barr extension is another one where it just, Anthony Barr was gone. And then all of a sudden he was back and he was back at a really expensive contract. And that's what I mean,

how they seem to pay top dollar over and over again, because it was like they knew, okay, well, that's another star player who made Pro Bowls and is, yes, too expensive. And a lot of teams we're seeing now, even Kansas City, are moving on from expensive players because they just can't give that much to one player. But this team just did it repeatedly and put themselves in this position where, and this is where we have to give Kwasi some time here, is just that he inherited this is where we have to give in Casey some time here is just that he inherited it, this spot where there wasn't a whole lot of room for maneuvering with the salary cap because of the way the previous regime had handled things. Spielman was in a role that they trusted him. Like he was like about as trusted in that organization

as you could get for the Wilfs. And so I can see the argument for now, for the first time, you are going to a new general manager, you are handing the reins over to someone else. And I can get why maybe you're more guarded or like right away with that guy, just because you aren't, you don't have the comfortability that you've had with Rick for all all these years and so i'm not saying it's the right leadership strategy you probably should just let him go make his decisions and let him do what he thinks is best like empower them but i i understand like the human aspect of you've owned this team you had rick for so long he was trusted and now that it's not that you have some uncertainty of, is this going to be what we think it's going to be like? And you kind of, you know, you meddle in it for a little bit at the beginning to try to get, you know, to try to make sure things are new situation that they are still trying to understand. They've never gone through this situation before where they're bringing someone entirely

from the outside to run as a general manager. So I think if we're looking at this from the ownership's eyes, I think it's entirely possible that they are probably guarded about this position and are probably just trying to guide him along at the beginning. So everything goes the way they want. Again, probably not the best leadership strategy, but I can definitely see that like some of those, some of these moves kind of make sense in that lens as well, because, you know, it's, I mean, it's their baby and they're handing it off to someone else that they don't quite

know. And so I can see how this may have happened. Right. And so we still have to judge based on the moves that they make kind of on quesia da fomensa and we still have to uh judge them on what rick spielman did because it's within whatever was laid out for you by ownership and you have to work within that and make the smartest moves and they didn't do that and and i and i do doubt that the owners were saying, I don't know, man, in camp, Kai Forbath is shanking some to the left. Shouldn't you draft another kicker or something?

That doesn't quite match up. But you know what I mean? Like, I think that on the micro level, some of the smaller things that were done drafting, I think they drafted, let's see, after between 2017 and 2021, they would have drafted three running backs in the first four rounds. It was like, you know, Alexander Madison, Kenny Wong. Well, I like Kenny Wong, but you know, when you have Delvin cook and you're still drafting other running backs, things like that, the, the ownership can't be blamed for that.

Um, and, and so I, you know, I think that the big decisions, I would give some leeway to say, well, maybe that's why that was handled in a certain manner that didn't make sense at the time. But around the margins, as Kweisi Adafo-Mensah said the other day, they still were bad. The margins that ownership would have nothing to do with. So yeah, I guess I'm in the middle of understanding some of the moves that happened on the bigger level now better if that was the case. But some of the other stuff that could have given you just the edge to get over the top to be in the playoffs over the last couple of years, I think Spielman probably needs to own that more as opposed to just being like, sorry, guys, had to play Dakota Dozier. No other option. I don't know man I think there

are better options than moving Ole Udo a development tackle to guard and then later in the season having Mike Zimmer say no actually we think he's a better tackle come on guys uh okay so uh this comes from Rinky Golf hearing nothing about a plan for the nickel corner is Bryce Callahan still available uh is the injury concern too much for him to overcome? He's played in the scheme, would feel better about a veteran nickel versus a rookie. So the Vikings signed Shandon Sullivan, who is a nickel corner. His numbers are not particularly good. And this is another thing where I just, you'd like to see some signs of using the analytics. And I don't mean to be like flippant about it, but when you sign a corner who is graded a 55 by PFF last year,

and who gave up, you know, pretty high numbers into his coverage over the last couple of seasons, it's hard to say, all right, they've got that solved with Shannon Sullivan. They're all set there, but I also don't know what else they can really do. So looking at their cap situation right now over the cap list them and having $11 million, which sounds like a couple of players, but you have to sign your draft class. And when you draft 12th overall, that's right there, a pretty good chunk of money for the first

year for your first round pick. You'll pick in the second, give up a decent amount of money there. I don't know the exact number it's going to cost because I don't know they might maneuver around, but they don't have a lot of money to work with now at this point. And it's hard to see any big name signings. We're going to get into the same territory as you wait around, kind of see who slips through the cracks and then you pick them up. And as a general strategy, I don't think that's a bad idea. It's just like when you need those players to succeed, that's when it becomes problematic. And that's kind of where they are now. But Shannon Sullivan might be your answer at nickel corn. I think that's reasonable to think that

they won't be able to compete with other teams if they want someone like Bryce Callahan, if he's believed by the league to still be good. Yeah. Can I ask you a different question off of this? And just like, I think when the Zedaria Smith signing happened, everyone's eyes went to corner in terms of the draft like oh this means they'll be drafting a cornerback at number 12 or this means they have to address a cornerback in the first round like do you feel like we're at that point where like uh they need to address corner early in this draft or they're like because that's it's something i'm working on for the next school searching column is just like do they are they in a position where they need to draft a cornerback right away and I would just

love to hear your thoughts on that I mean so there's a part of me that says if they draft the cornerback in the first round that people are really going to lose their minds like um you know just uh when it comes to this is the same as it was with Rick Spielman. Um, so you know, it's sort of a couple of tiered question. I mean, it always starts with, are you drafting a quarterback? Because if your plan is to draft quarterback, that's always the number one plan for me. That's always the right decision for me. That's what would in the PFF simulator, I don't know, get you an a plus I guess is if you're picking whatever quarterback is there or trading down to do that. There's other part of me that says,

if you're not picking a quarterback, you really truly have to pick the best player as long as he's not a tackle, because it doesn't make any sense to pick a tackle. There's only two of them on the field and you have a backup swing tackle and only Udo who can reasonably fill in there. So you can't take Ikea Kwanu if he drops, that would just be ridiculous. And you should trade out of that pick, but edge rusher receiver. I would not advise a linebacker or running back here or a tight end, but edge rusher and receiver are two. Just look at who gets paid of the most valuable positions in the NFL.

And if George Karolafdis is there as a pass rusher, I wouldn't say, oh, guys, you just signed Zedaria Smith to basically a two-year deal. You have to pass on a very good pass rushing prospect. Because, I mean, if you look at how San Francisco has handled this in previous years, they've loaded up on the defensive linemen and sort of said about the secondary, we'll try to fill it in. And Kansas city has done the same thing. It didn't work out for them to trade for Frank Clark, but they've tried to load up on these defensive linemen and rush after the passer. They re-signed Chris Jones, that kind of thing, and have just tried to kind of pick and choose what they do as far as cornerbacks. I don't always love that strategy, especially if you're trying to sign two or three guys

and saying all of you have to hit for this to be good. But I think that drafting for need has been one of the ways that they've gotten themselves into trouble in recent years. And if you're just getting like, you just need good players. That's what this roster needs. It's missing good players on a lot of different levels. And if it's, if it's an edge rusher, take the edge rusher. And the other thing too, is that when you do the draft Sims, a lot of times the two top guys are gone. Derek Stingley, Jr. And sauce Gardner are being taken very high. And, you know, after that, there's kind of

a big drop off to the next couple of corners, or at least the way that people are, are laying it out. So I, yeah, I think that corner stands out as how could you not draft one at this point? But I also think that if you're reaching for one, that's how they may have gotten themselves in trouble in past years. Yeah. And especially because people seem to be looking at it from the lens of look at our 2022 roster at cornerback and like, we need help there. The only thing is like a first year corner is going to have some troubles. Like they are not going to be very good in the first year. I was looking through the PFF grades of all the, of corners in the last five years and how they played in their first year like

the results are are not great like it's it's there's one over a 70 grade of of all of them since 2018 like that for their first year like so if people are looking at it through the lens of well we need a cornerback in 2022 to be competitive. Like drafting one might not even be the right strategy. Like you might have a better chance just drafting or signing someone who has experience, who you feel like can have a good year in your system. If your ultimate goal is to be competitive next year or in the first two years. So I think, I think generally drafting a cornerback in the first round would be a smart decision, but not for 2022.

Drafting a corner in the first round would be a smart decision, but not for 2022. Drafting a corner in the first round would be a smart decision for 2023, for 2024, because they don't have a lot of depth there. So I think people are kind of getting the need of it twisted. It's definitely needed, and it's definitely needed for the future. But if you feel like it's a need that they can address for 2022, it's probably wrong to go in and say well we're just going to draft eric stingley jr and he's going to come in and he's going to provide us at least starter level quality like some of the best cornerbacks had bad first years if you're

going through it like it's it's it's not very good and so i i i would just trend to yes you could take a cornerback but then don't expect him to be an immediate guy. Like if you're drafting a cornerback, view it through a lens of he's going to be good in 2023, 2024. And so you should, with some of the money you have left, try to still go out and sign a cornerback or two that can kind of fill in the margins. That's kind of how I've approached it.

Yeah, I think if it's Sauce Gardner or if it's Derek Stingley jr. And they're available and the Vikings pick them great pick because that's your high end. Stingley has that Island potential, which very few guys have, but he's really talked about that way. Sauce Gardner is a pterodactyl. He's got these insane arms and he's super, super tall, but also absolutely destroyed the combine. And so you're getting that freak athlete, that Xavier Rhodes type that you're looking for to be your shutdown guy. Those two fine. But beyond that, I'm having trouble finding that player who is projected to be a huge

impact guy down the road, as opposed to if you draft a really good edge rusher. I mean, you can find places to make sure they're on the field in the first year to make an impact. And then down the road, you might have to move on from Daniel Hunter. This is a thing that we, I guess, didn't really get into because there were other stuff, but the way they've set up Daniel Hunter now is a one-year deal. He's on a one-year deal. And if they extend him after this year, they are giving him insane money. You really have to plan to move on from Daniil Hunter after this year, because if he gets 14 sacks, he is demanding $25 million a year plus. And he's not going $1 underneath that. I mean, even Vaughn Miller at his age got a ton of money from the Buffalo Bills. And so they- And if he gets hurt, you'd want to move on at

that point. So like they're end of the spectrum. Right, right. So there's almost, I mean, it's possible that they could extend Daniil Hunter after this year, but the point is that it's just going to cost you an insane amount of money to extend him after this year. And if that's not possible, or he says, look guys, I'm just not signing an extension with you. Then you're going to be left drafting for need again next year and chasing an edge rusher. And then this is, this is just the tricky part of this roster and has been for a few years of, do you get a guy that you can look down the road and draft? Or do you try to fill that spot right away? And I think as long as you're not, this is what the studies have found. If you're reaching, then you're in trouble.

If you're going so much against the consensus draft boards and against what people like Daniel Jeremiah or Dane Bruegel are saying, if you go and get Cleland Farrell or whatever his name was with a fourth overall pick when he's being ranked by the draft analyst as the 30th guy, you're probably going to bust. I mean, just the odds aren't good with that. Okay, let me move on. I'm sorry. I slapped the microphone. I don't know if you heard that. Let me move on to another question here. Is it possible Mike Zimmer completely mismanaged the development of the last two draft classes? And there's a lot of untapped potential. I'll start by saying that there is definitely still potential with players that have been

drafted in the last two years, especially last year. And this is kind of the Jordan Hicks signing where you maybe would have liked to have seen Chaz Surratt and Blake Lynch, who's an undrafted guy for a few years ago, but has been developing maybe even Troy Dye kind of have a competition there. Now they won't. That's sort of the competitive rebuild part. Like that could have been a competition there. Now they won't. That's sort of the competitive rebuild part. Like that could have been a rebuild part, but you know, I don't think that he mismanaged if we're talking about Wyatt Davis, for example, I don't think he mismanaged that. I don't think

that the trouble was ever player evaluation with Mike Zimmer. I think that the trouble was more that because they wanted to win all the time, they always looked for the solution that was an older or more experienced player and left some of the development on the table. And the corners are a good example of this, where you go out and sign Patrick Peterson and he's fine. You know, he wasn't an impact player, but he was not a liability. But if there was anything there for many of the development corners who were behind Patrick Peterson, we didn't get to see it. We got to see about half the snaps from Cam Dantzler that we could have seen. Not that I

think that Harrison Hand is the next Richard Sherman, but we didn't see him play really at all last year. Chris Boyd has flashed a little, but then also flashed a little bad and we didn't see him play really at all last year. Chris Boyd has flashed a little, but then also flashed a little bad. And we didn't see him play a whole lot last year. And they were not in a position to do that because they put it into, we got to make the playoffs for this year and save our jobs and everything else. But I think that it's less mismanagement of player development than it is the position that they were in just sort of if you were a coach and your job was on the line and i was giving you a choice between playing cam

danzler an unproven corner and bashad breland who had won a super bowl we're all probably picking bashad breland we know now that it went horribly horribly wrong so it's very easy to say oh what do they do it but go back and look at everybody's tweets when they sign breland oh he's had these good numbers and he played in the super bowl and so we sort of retroactively when it doesn't go right go like oh what what a crazy person zimmer was he hates young players like well no he was trying to save his job now he probably should have adapted you know as soon as it went horribly wrong. But, uh, I don't, I don't think it was him looking at Wyatt Davis and being like, I don't know football anymore. Play only Udo. Like, no, I'm, I think it was because Wyatt Davis was on

the third team in training camp and still wasn't having great games in the preseason. He just wasn't showing what he needed to show to earn that job. Yeah. I mean, if Wyatt Davis was better than any of the options, Mike would have started him in a second. I would, I would think, especially towards the end, like he, it comes from the position that he was coaching in, in that he was coaching for his job every week, every like at all points, those last couple, those last two years, especially the last year, he's coaching for his job. And so, I mean, if you go through the picks, like the top four or five picks from both those draft, or at least from 2020, like Justin Jefferson obviously played a

lot. Gladney was playing before his situation. Ezra Cleveland obviously got in. Cam Dantzler has played a role as a cornerback. DJ wanham has played so like the the top picks there have played um and so i think there's mismanagement again around the margins in some of those parts um and you'd like to say hey can you give you know wyatt davis a little bit more run can you give ches surratt a little bit more run and so maybe he mismanaged it but he mismanaged it in the context of he was kind of forced to win every game. And so when you kind of come at it from that context, like if you're Mike Zimmer, like what what would you be trying to do differently? Like there is an avenue where you just fully go in on the young guys and say, hey, I'm really trying to develop these young guys.

And look, we've had Cam Bynum hit this year. Oh, look, we if you had played cam dantzler a lot more maybe he gets better oh look cam dantzler has hit hey look kj osborne has done really well like he could have gone the all-in route of i'm gonna play these young guys and then i'm gonna say look at some of these guys i've developed like i am on the right path to continue to develop these guys moving forward but at the point he was it was was pretty much do or die, win games or get lost, Mike. And so at that point, I don't fault him for going and picking up Rashad Breland and starting Ole Udo at guard or doing all those things.

But for the new regime coming in, there are some guys that you'd probably like to take a look at that maybe didn't get a full run. So in terms of untapped potential, I don't know if you're going to find like some pro bowl player and guys that didn't start like the reality is Mike and Rick, in general had a pretty good eye for talent and did a pretty good job. So you're not going to find a diamond in the rough. But can you find maybe a starter or two out of this group because the previous regime was unwilling to give it to the young guys? Sure. I think that is possible, but I don't think you have someone, some great player just sitting in the wings because Mike and Rick refused to start a rookie

because he wasn't good. If he was good towards the end, they were doing anything they could to save their jobs. And if that presented itself, they would have gone that route. And if you look at the last three drafts, so in 2019, they played Garrett Bradbury and Irv Smith and Alexander Madison right away. So that wasn't like sitting them because they didn't like rookies. And then in 2020, they played Jefferson, Gladney, Ezra Cleveland, Cam Dantzler all right away. And then, you know, KJ Osborne worked his way into year two. And by year two, the 2020 draft actually looks pretty good for this team. I mean, Jefferson could wear a gold jacket someday, so that's a pretty good pick. But Ezra Cleveland is a starting guard.

Cam Dantzler is going to start this year and had a decent season at times last year. James Lynch played a little bit. Harrison Hand is like a special teams guy and KJ Osborne is a legit NFL wide receiver. And so you, you know, I don't think that there was some so violent mismanagement that they screwed up all those guys because they all actually made progress in year two. I thought Jefferson got better and Ezra Cleveland certainly got better. He looked competent this year. James Lynch was on the field. DJ Wanham, whether those sacks were kind of a product of Justin Fields running right into him or not, DJ Wanham took a step forward. Dantzler played better than he did in the first year and so did KJ Osborne. I just think that

the expectation when we draft people is for every team, every fan base is we got this guy and he's going to play and he's going to fill the spot and he's going to be great. I'm like, okay, well, he was picked in the third round and guys need development. And it's always worth saying like every time by day three of the draft, like this guy won't impact your win-loss record this year unless he is one of the most extreme outliers of all time. Okay. And that was digs like digs as a fifth rounder, actually impacting their offense in 2015 was an extreme,

extreme outlier. That just does not happen very often. So you have to be patient with it. And that's one of the reasons that we're talking about, like show me the rebuild part is some of these guys from 2021 need to play like Amir Smith, Marcet, Cam Bynum, Kenny Wong Wu, Patrick Jones, Wyatt Davis. They need opportunities, Chaz Surratt to play and see if there's something there and sitting on the bench behind someone like Jordan Hicks. If Jordan Hicks isn't helping you win a Super Bowl, where is that taking you? And I think he's a decent player, but the other thing too, is we have to be honest about what Mike Zimmer was and what he wasn't like, what he did well and

what he didn't, because I think there's a natural part of looking at everything that Mike Zimmer did and saying, well, he did everything wrong and the new guy will do everything right. We always do this with every position. Oh, they moved on from Trey Waynes. Well, the next corner, he'll be so much better. And you're like, well, Trey Waynes did a lot of things right. And PFF put out this study.

This came from, or actually former PFF intern, Tej Seth came out with this where he attempted to figure out wins over expected from 2009 to 2020. So here's his list. Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, Mike Tomlin. That sounds about right. Pete Carroll, Chuck Pagano, Mike McCarthy, Rex Ryan, Lovey Smith, Mike Zimmer, Bruce Arians, Jim Caldwell is the top of the list. And at the bottom, Dan Quinn, Jim Schwartz, Mike Shanahan with Washington, John Fox, Jay Gruden with Washington,

Jack Del Rio. So the point being that, well, Mike Zimmer is not up there with Andy Reid and Bill Belichick. He is still in that ballpark of guys who were competent and good NFL coaches. And I think that overall, that's what Mike Zimmer was. And for Kevin O'Connell to be better, he has to be very, very good. And so far they haven't really done anything to help him be very, very good. They've done nothing on the offensive side. And if they had signed a couple of offensive linemen, you might go like, okay, now they're helping Kevin O'Connell. They sign another receiver now they're helping kevin o'connell a tight end who could be the number two and catch passes not a blocking tight end okay they're

helping him so far they haven't helped him they've helped ed donatel on the defensive side so i think that we always need to keep in perspective like exactly what Mike Zimmer was as we evaluate is it better is it different one of the biggest demises of Mike was just his dealing with people uh and what what he was as a coach outside of the x's and o's and so I think as time passes maybe you just start to forget that Mike like consistently like one of the best indicators of how well or how good a defensive coach is, is how well they do on third down when they can dictate some of the terms. And the Vikings were always, no matter how bad their offense was, were always one of the top third down defenses.

That is directly correlated to what Mike could do schematically to make quarterbacks, to make offenses uncomfortable. And so when you look at Zimmer's demise, some of it is meddling with the offense. A lot of it, I think, is dealing with people. And that was the toxic culture that we kind of heard about afterwards and has been ingrained with this new regime. Like, this is not going to be that. Like, ultimately, that was Mike's downfall in a lot of ways.

It wasn't how great of a coach he was so I I think that is kind of just a caution um that we don't know if Kevin O'Connell is a better coach he very well may be a better leader and maybe that leads to better play on the field but if you are saying well O'Connell's coming in and his schematics, his offensive mind are going to elevate this team. Maybe you're right, but Zimmer did a lot of good things on the defensive side of the ball. And for a lot of the years, they had a very sound offensive coordinator that was doing good things for Kirk Cousins.

So I think as we get further and further out, it's going to be like the general consensus because Mike got fired. And because of a lot of the way things ended, it's just going to be like, well, Mike wasn't a very good head coach. I think as time goes on, that might just be the natural progression. But I think it's important to say what Mike, what lost Mike the job in a lot of ways wasn't what he was drawing up on the field. It was what else he was doing. And so it should be cautioned that we don't know if Kevin O'Connell is going to be better. He might be, he might be, he really could, but he also might not be. Zimmer was here for so many years,

coaches, the average tenure is three years. So Zimmer was doing something right to get to stay as long as he did. And so O'Connell has big shoes to fill in that regard. For sure that leadership and game management, those things that we can really see and latch on to those things. When players are making comments about your culture and all those things that you can say, okay, well, this player said this about how you were treating them. And then all these things sort of the floodgates open a little bit after Mike Zimmer is let go that people can finally feel comfortable to say some of the floodgates open a little bit after Mike Zimmer is let go that

people can finally feel comfortable to say some of the things they didn't want to say. And the game management stuff, we have metrics for that. Mike Zimmer got actually like consistently worse at it. And it was really interesting that I looked at this last year about early in the season, Mike Zimmer was extremely, extremely conservative and blew them some games because of it. And then later on, he got very, very aggressive. And that was always his issue is it seemed to be whatever way the wind was blowing. If you play for the Baltimore Ravens, you know how John Harbaugh is going to handle fourth down. You know how he's going to handle the two point situation.

You might not agree with it 100 percent of the time, but you know exactly how he's going to do it. And he's going to do it to maximize points over a long period of time where Zimmer was just trying to sort of guess right every time. And it's like the stock market. I'll use a stock market example here is if you're just going and like, oh, this, this stock looks like it's going up. I'm just going to buy it. And this one looks like it's going down. So instead of trying to kind of take an even approach of, all right, I believe in these things long-term, I believe that going forward on fourth and three at the other teams, 37 is a long-term successful play. You're, you're not going to hit on it every time. It's going to go down a little bit, but long-term it goes up and up and up. So I think that there are absolutely areas that could

be improved. One thing that also can be brought up is that over the last three years, the Vikings are 11th in total points scored. So if you're making gains from 11th, like I think that right now, that's where we would probably all project this offense to finish is somewhere between, you know, maybe 10 and 15. And that's where they've been over a three-year period. So is there enough around the margins of play calling of player usage to take that from being that, that second tier

to being in the first tier and playing with the big boys. And that goes under the category of, I don't know, like, I'm not sure that Kwesi Adafo-Mensah said they have ideas about it, but it's not like he pulled me aside and drew up the X's and O's and showed me like, oh yeah, you see, we're going to put Jefferson in motion here. And then he's going to run the underneath, you know, like that's under, we'll start to judge that as we go forward and look at their schemes. All right. A couple other questions here. Does the NFL need to step in and fix the way that some of these teams do contracts? It seems very messy the way they move around money and add void years. Now, the NHL actually did this

where they were handing out these 15-year contracts to Parisi and Suter, and then the NHL finally said, all right, all right, cut it out. Eight-year deals or seven-year deals, that's all you can do. Stop it. But I think that the NFL loves this.

They love that the rules can be bent and there are consequences as we have seen here, but they love that a team can trade for a star player or that they can keep a star player that they wouldn't have kept otherwise, or that they can go all in. So the Los Angeles Rams, that there will be an end point to this where that roster just completely comes apart and they haven't been drafting anyone and their salary cap is in big trouble. And that's when Sean McVay will say, you know what? I really want to spend more time with my family. Like this is Sean Payton. You know, I just, I just want to be with my family all of a sudden. Have I been coaching my entire life and ignoring them? Yes. But today I just want to be with my family all of a sudden. Have I been coaching my entire life and ignoring them?

Yes. But today I just woke up and decided that I no longer have Drew Brees or a good roster and our salary cap is screwed. So I'm just going to health reasons is really it. That's what it is. But after a year, after a year, after a year of just getting that real good family time, I'm ready to commit eight more years to the Dallas Cowboys. Right, right, right.

To whatever team seems like they could possibly win. So I guess my take on that is the NFL loves it and they want it to stay this way and they want owners to spend their money and they want fans to get excited. And Hey, I mean, this is, it's the Vikings,

right? Like they, the Vikings were able to keep all these star players because they moved money around. And at the time, what did we hear? Oh, we'll deal with it later. We'll deal. And now we're dealing with it, but to the NFL, what do they care?

What do they care if the Minnesota Vikings are now in cap trouble and can't sign any nickel corners when other teams around their league are making all these huge headlines and being very exciting. I just think that, um, that it just creates more storylines. I also think it allows good teams that handle the salary cap to do better than teams that do bad. So it's an advantage that teams can have if they can maneuver it. I mean, everyone kind of knows now about the little loopholes that teams can go through. Maybe at the very beginning, some teams were getting by through that advantage.

But now the advantage is, okay, when do we use those and when do we hold off? When do we do different things? Are we going for it this year based on how we're structuring the contracts? Or are we going to kind of take a hit like maybe Kansas City did by not extending Tyreek Hill? Are we going to take a small hit for our long-term longevity? I think it's just another factor that allows good teams to set themselves apart from bad teams and identifies bad teams. And so in that way, I like it because if we take it away, it somewhat flattens what teams

can do, and then it flattens the pack. And I like when there are extremes on both ends of the margin. I don't want every team to be right around the same record. I want teams that are dominant. I want teams that are really bad because one, those are storylines. But two, I just think that's a better way that the NFL functions than if you create strict and like dictate certain contractual terms that teams have to follow, you're just taking away one part of creativity that can

either set your franchise up to do really, really good things, or in some cases have it majorly backfire. And so I think that's good just from a competitive standpoint for teams to kind of have that option. And again, it allows us to see which teams are doing really, really good stuff and which teams are struggling. And I think that's good. And again, yeah, for storylines, I think it's really good as well. So it's confusing as a fan and as someone who tries to write about it to understand, okay, what's happening with this contract? Where is it going? Like what's happening there? But I think overall it's, it's a good thing for the league and it allows for a lot of that player

movement, which is super fun. Like this NFL off season, if you're a Vikings fan may not be super fun for the Vikings, but just in terms of what's happening every day, it's, it's awesome. It's really cool. Don't you think the NFL made a huge mistake not creating over the cap dot com themselves? Like Jason Fitzgerald is the guy that I know this, that Jason Fitzgerald from over the cap meets with cap people from the NFL and is widely respected as being like the truth on this matter. So that's why we use it all the time when we're analyzing this stuff. And Brad Spielberger got his start with over the cap and now works for pro football focus. So he's our go-to guy of help us understand, but the NFL, I think made a mistake, not leaning into, Hey, people actually love this contract stuff and love talking about what their teams can do. Because to me, the two games of chess that exists in the NFL are the X's and O's in the matchups. And then the off season game of chess where you're moving pieces around. Sometimes you're sacrificing pieces in order to

get long-term gains. And sometimes you're taking risks that, you know, might not pay off. And I think that's why it's the most fun league to follow because even the off season, there's a game going on in the off season. There are no games on the field, but the game is just as fun as we all try to figure out how this maneuvering and shuffling, I would not want to see them get rid of this. The only reason I would want to see them get rid of this is from the people who tweet that the cap is a myth. Like that's,

that's the only reason because it's so blatantly not true. And yet every move that they, that is made, it's like, Oh wow. See see there's no cap it's like come on stop it like this is this is the fun of it if you think a cap doesn't exist it becomes less fun to analyze everything that they're doing and less interesting and you're just like ignoring one of the coolest parts of the nfl and what teams are actually doing

uh okay i'm going to give you a dealer's choice here. Would you prefer a Madlib or where PFF thinks that the quarterbacks will land? Let's do a Madlib. I have not listened to this. So you're going to have to give me a rundown of what I need to do here, but I'm excited for this. Okay. So you understand how Madlibs work, which is I ask you a number of questions and you give me words or phrases and then we fill them into a scouting report. Okay. Okay. All right. So this, uh, this is going to be Justin Jefferson scouting report from NFL.com. All right. So let's start off. The first thing I need from you is someone who works for you, like not a person's name, but more like a job title. Okay. Um, secretary. Okay. All right. A type of dance. Uh, the tango. All right. Uh, now again,

I just want to say I am not a professional Mad Libber and this could turn out horribly wrong. This is just the, but I'm hoping that if it turns out horribly wrong, that that is just as funny. All right. Something you improve about yourself. Uh yourself uh you're like strength strength okay again i don't know if these will actually work uh a random animal uh zebra zebra all right uh a way to describe a food um bland bland all right okay something that could be hilariously oversized okay well we're gonna keep this one safe for uh yeah sure um something that could be hilariously kid-friendly yes hilariously oversized um let's just go with like a t-shirt i don't know yeah

yeah that's right i mean i uh grew up in the early 2000s i know about hilariously oversized t-shirts uh give me one of the five senses uh smell smell all right okay let's give this a try all right so nfl.com jesse jefferson's uh mad lib scouting report all right a quarterback's secretary with the contested catch focus and extreme tango skills to boost completion percentages, Justin Jefferson failed to stand out as an outside target but saw his strength soar with a monster season from the slot. He has zebra speed and separation talent,

but he needs to improve as a route runner as he's less likely to see the freedom and space that LSU's offense helped him create. He's bland in space and is able to stab and save throws with t-shirt hands and fluid body smell. Sure. Yep. Why not? Fluid body smell is not not great for anybody nobody wants that they should create one of these booklets one of the mad lib booklets you can get from barnes and noble or whatever they're never not funny i was telling you never it's like the it's like the nerdiest geekiest thing like i had uh family members who didn't have a television and

i really mean that like did not own one did not let their kids watch and they would do stuff like this on a sunday night that would be like entertainment um let me just tell you real quick since we have time you're not busy on a sunday is uh anthony trash from pff did the quarterback landing spots he has malik willis 9 to seattle desmond ritter 18 to new orleans. Kenny Pickett going to the Steelers at 20. Sam Howell 42 to Indy and 43 Matt Corral to the Atlanta Falcons. Falcons. If there's a quarterback in the second round, would you do that for the Vikings?

I mean, if it's one of those top five guys, um, I guess maybe you consider it, but in general, I feel like if the NFL let them get that far, uh, and the likelihood that they are going to be a really good quarterback just diminishes in general. I think we've looked at this. We looked at it last year with Kellen Mond, like when you're taking shots in the second round, like it's nice to pull out the names that everyone knows. It's nice to pull out the Dak Prescott name and say, well, what if it's this guy? But just overwhelmingly, that's not what happens. So I guess if it's one of these top five guys that we've been painstakingly going over this

offseason, I'd consider it. But in general, it would make me question why they're still there. And that would that would give me question why they're still there. And that would, that would give me some pause for this team. So for me, it feels much more like if you're going to do it, just do it at 12. Like what are, what are we doing? Wait until pick 44, just do it at 12. So I would, I would have some major just concerns and doubts about why they're still there. I do think there's a case for trading down in the first, if you kind of are aware of everyone else's needs and then doing it. But in the second round, yeah.

I mean, the ones who have succeeded have been very early second rounders, like Jimmy G or Derek Carr. They kind of went very early in the second round, but it's hard to find second rounders beyond those guys that worked out super well. If the whole league looks at a player and says, no, always a little tough, always a little tough there with, with a position that is the ultimate value of, of quarterback. All right, Paul, great stuff. Go to purpleinsider.com. Your skull searching article will be up there by the time you're listening to this. And also the Friday mailbag

that we took these questions from, always feel free to submit them to me on Twitter, usually on Thursday, please, because I'll lose them in my mentions that are flooded with people who are irritated about different things. But Thursdays is usually when I take all those questions and gather them and make a Friday mailbag. And I usually answer like 50 fan questions. So it's one of my favorite things to do. So go check that out to the Friday mailbag at purpleinsider.com and we will catch you later.

Thanks, Paul.