Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings suddenly a win-now team? The Athletic's Jon Krawczynski breaks it down

Episode Date: September 19, 2024

Matthew Coller and Johnny K dive into the Vikings' team building and "culture" under Kevin O'Connell and Kwesi Adofo-Mensah and how they created an environment for Sam Darnold to thrive... will they keep it rolling though Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and joining me on the show, John Krasinski from The Athletic. You know him from such coverage as the Minnesota Timberwolves and basketball, but also, Johnny, you covered a lot of football in your day, my friend. Saw you at the stadium. And you know, you and I, every time we get together, we have good conversations about timelines, front officing, roster building. And I said, you know what? We should record some of this and send it out to the world. Johnny, how are you doing this morning, man? How are you? I'm good, Collar. I'm ready to share our gifts, our considerable intelligence and views and

perspectives with the entire world, which we all know everyone subscribes to this podcast. So I'm looking forward to just blessing everyone with our knowledge and all of our worldly wisdom. OK, you've set the standard very high. So why don't we jump right into it? I really I want to make a comparison here, though, between the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Minnesota Vikings, because I think that team building is different timberwolves and the minnesota vikings because i think that team building is different in the nba and the nfl the nfl you have so many darn people and yet usually it comes down to that one fella who holds the football the most and in basketball it is similar in the fact that it comes down to anthony edwards and how you build around that player but

i i would love to hear you compare what you've seen from the timberwol Edwards and how you build around that player. But I would love to hear you compare what you've seen from the Timberwolves and their team build to be at the point where they are on the brink of being a championship team. I mean, they were as close as you can get last year without actually getting to the finals versus what you've seen from this Kweisi Adafo Mensah competitive rebuild approach that now has this roster, I think, and I know it's only two weeks, farther along than maybe we thought it would be so far. Yeah, I mean, I do think that there are parallels between team building in the NBA and the NFL that you can sort of connect with the Vikings and Timberwolves. Certainly, you know, the Wolves'

biggest breakthrough has been you get Anthony Edwards, you get that number one guy, and that really does change kind of the trajectory of everything else around him. I think for a long, long time, they were really looking for that just a number one solid guy to just to build around but also I think you know where that's a little different with the Vikings when you have you know the defense and you have the offense and the kick or everything that you have to put together but I think that the similarity between the Wolves and the Vikings is that both teams needed to stabilize their leadership at the coaching position and the front office positions before you could really say, all right, I can see the vision and the pathway forward for both teams to build a contender. And the Wolves went through a revolving door of people at both coach and GM for a long, long time.

And now they have Tim Connolly and Chris Finch in place. And that's probably the most stable, most competent, you know, tandem that they've had in their franchise history. And so when you have two people in place there that can set a vision, can manage personalities, can build a team, you're seeing a little bit more sustainability and continuity. And that's a very good thing. I think with the Vikings, we were waiting to see what Kwezi Adolfo Mensah was going to be as a lead president, GM, whatever you want to call him. And, you know, he certainly had some mistakes and some missteps. But then you look at this offseason with Blake Cashman and Van Ginkle and Darnold and Grenard and J.J. McCarthy, I think is going to be a really good player. And a lot of the moves that that he is making are starting to click and pay off.

And then you also have a very good coach and coaching staff with O'Connell and Flores. That just brings a new level of stability and sort of a strong kind of foundation underneath their feet to build upon that we weren't sure how it was shaking out. And so I think both leadership groups have done a really good job of stepping into either uncertain or chaotic situations and now starting to kind of settle into it and getting everybody to just kind of relax and focus on their jobs. And I think that's made a huge difference for both teams. A hundred percent. And when Kweisi Rappaport and Kevin O'Connell take over and the opening

press conferences include the words culture and collaboration so many times that, uh, wow, I'll just have that echoing in my noggin forever, just culture, collaboration. And yet yesterday, Brian Flores told a story about talking to a coach from the Gophers about Blake Cashman, and then going back and looking at the tape and taking that to Kweisi Adafomenta and then getting Blake Cashman and bringing him here. And Kevin O'Connell talked about he and Brian Flores agreeing on Andrew Van Ginkle as a player who could be a game changer for them. They take that to the general manager. He's able to bring that guy here. And I think that O'Connell and Flores have a really good idea of what they coaches need and the cap guy to go be able to do it and figure it out and creating the culture that makes Blake Cashman want to come here.

Because I'm sure that Mr. Cashman is aware of what's going on in Minnesota enough to know that they do rank extremely high in those NFLPA anonymous surveys and the environment that Kevin O'Connell has created at times. I think some of us, including me have gone, okay, Kevin, this is football, man. Like it's not,

you know, a vacation in the Cayman islands here, man. And yet the way that he is entrusted his players, I think much more than Mike Zimmer, where it was, I am the boss and you are the employees has also created a place that players want to be and i think we're really seeing sort

of the fruits of all of that come together and the culture and collaboration has actually ended up coming to fruition it's just that everyone uses it so much i think that they don't even know necessarily how to put a finger on what that is when you're applying it. But we've actually seen that from these two. Yeah. And I do think that particularly in football, there is always sort of a yearning for the old days, for the crusty, no-nonsense, overbearing head coach to come in and kick butts and break wills and bend people to

them. And you feel like we grew up in an era of there were dictators that ran these things and ruled with an iron fist and you hated it. But anyone who didn't play and didn't work in those environments like, man, this is great. I love how Bud Grant does things I love how you know even Mike Zimmer I think had a lot of fans locally because of the gruff demeanor because he just fit like I'm a football coach and we're this is we're men and I'm not gonna take any gruff from anyone. You're doing it my way or the highway. But I think that, you know, you can roll your eyes at culture, accountability, at those kind of buzzwords of the new generation. But I think that what we are finding is if you don't adapt to that, you're going to be lost. You know, you can pine for those days and you can, you can wish that they were

here, but they are not, they're gone. And the only organizations that are going to survive and recover and adapt and, and, and continue to grow and, and build on are the, are the teams that say, this is what our players need now. Like these are, this is what the modern athlete needs and how to lead them. And Kevin O'Connell has a great feel for what his guys need from him. And you're there every day. I was just there on Sunday, and I'm there occasionally. But you walk around that locker room, even in the rough times last year, I never thought that Kevin O'Connell was losing

grip on the team. Um, and right now, I mean, they're all just, they're all so in on him and they believe in him. They respect him. They want to play for him. And that is a huge factor in a, what, if you're miserable in the NFL, it is a too long of a season to survive. And so I think Kevin and Kwesi have understood that you have to build this infrastructure for a place that people want to come to work. And that is a new, more of a newfangled idea and it might be touchy feely or whatever, but that's what you need. And so then when you take a team into a season that maybe is not necessarily picked to be a contender and things start to go right for you as they have for the Vikings,

all of a sudden the momentum that can build from that is incredible because all these guys are happy already and now it's all working together and that kind of will be get more success ideally and theoretically. So we'll see. But I just, yeah, I think that, you know, from the day he stepped in here, Kevin O'Connell has just shown a really good idea of what his guys need and how to give it to him just from a leadership perspective and a team building perspective. And that's been really impressive for the way that they've handled this and, and built this thing. And Minnesotans love nothing more than when people say they want to come to Minnesota. And I just, it's not a coincidence when JJ McCarthy, I know everyone would say this,

but it was kind of out there before the JJ McCarthy was hoping to be picked by the Minnesota Vikings and Justin Jefferson, I'm sure was part of that, but also, and these guys all read the internet. They know everybody around the league. They know who graded highly in those NFL PA surveys. And for Kevin O'Connell, I look at the word culture similarly to the word analytics, where it's just used all the time, but it can mean so many different things. And if you just say, yeah, we have analytics.

Well, that doesn't mean you're applying them correctly or using them to actually win. Oh, well, we have a culture. Okay. Does that mean memorizing the signs around the building and having to spew them back in meetings, which I've heard of coaches doing and doesn't make any sense to me. I think it was Garrett Bradbury who told me last year, Kevin O'Connell understands how to make a schedule for us, which you and I don't think about at all,

but they have work schedules just like everybody else. And when you take things into consideration of how they might be feeling with the work schedule, even small things like that, how families are treated around the organization, the result is that people want to come here and it helps you build this team quicker than maybe they thought they were going to be able to build it, which is where I want to go with this conversation. when Kweisi Dafflomento arrives here, he uses the words competitive rebuild. I'm certain that he regrets using it, but I told him, I think at the owners meetings, I said, I appreciate you using it because I understood it at that point. I understood exactly what you were trying to do. And then in a recent press conference, he mentioned feeling like he was down 33, nothing when he arrived, which I'm sure, uh, the, you know, Adam Thielens and Delvin cooks are like, wait a minute. I was on the team at that point, but I think he meant more from the salary cap and digging

yourself out of the salary cap hell and into the future, because we forget when he arrived, just how awful that was as Rick Spielman pushed money into the future, into the future to try to keep those players. And then Casey had to do it when he got here because the Wilfs wanted a competitive 2022 season. So I was, I'm interested in your perspective in how they've gone from point a to point B because it has been a long roster journey. If you go back to when they arrived here, what is it like CJ ham and Justin Jefferson and Darisaw and Harrison Smith? And those are really the only guys left the way that he's executed a competitive rebuild, uh, has been, I think impressive. And now they're at a place

where they're more competitive than I thought they would be even here. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I mean, when you look at it, you know, they, one bad year. Like that's that's what so far it looks like now. We'll see what this season turns out to be. And it's been a great start. They still have a very tough schedule. Maybe things kind of level off a little bit. But I think that what I feel comfortable saying right now about this team is I was certainly more on the pessimistic side coming into it just in terms of I didn't know what you're going to get from Sam Darnold you know this was a lot of new elements on defense you know what you know you had all these injuries popping up obviously you have the tragic death of your draft pick like all these things that were that were kind of there and just hanging in the atmosphere and just sort of like it seemed like there was some sort of a dark cloud hanging over. And so I just had a lot of questions.

And so it looked like with the schedule, with the improved division, maybe you're looking at six, seven wins at best and not really being in the playoff mix or in the hunt. Now after two games, I feel confident in saying that looks like an undershot on my part. I think that they're going to be a factor in the conversation for much of the season. And whether they end up in the double-digit win category or whether maybe it's more like eight or nine

and they're at least right in the mix, you feel good about the direction of the team and where they're going, especially with all of the cap space that they have for next season, JJ McCarthy, all these things. So, so the things are lined up much better. And so they were to be able to do that and put yourself in this position with only one down year is a real testament to their abilities. Because you're seeing a lot of teams that struggle for multiple years in a row, that need several years to dig out of whatever hole they have put themselves in. And then they honestly sometimes don't even dig out of it. Carolina, we'll see about Chicago, all this other stuff. But the Vikings have been able to kind of transition from an old team that was miserable

and that had felt like it reached its absolute ceiling, there was no higher that it was going to go, to now a new look, fresh team that has energy, that is competitive, that also has the flexibility with future assets to really kind of continue to build on this and even improve a great deal all in the span of one bad season. And I think that is something that cannot be overestimated is how difficult that can be to transition from where they were to where they are now as quickly as they did. No, it's true.

And it comes back to, I think, the cap space that they were able to create by moving on from Kirk Cousins. And when we evaluate the entire thing. Now, if Kirk was here, we'd be talking about what his Achilles looked like. But the vibe would be a lot different. Talking about a fourth quarter comeback on Monday Night Football is what you'd be talking about. That was very 2022-ish, where the other team is just about to win the

game and then oh they're not it reminded me of uh Josh Allen's QB sneak fumble where you went wait that they lost that game after having a 99 chance to win uh or whatever but you know with with cousins we would be talking about something else beyond just his achilles and how he looked running play action which would be you have to compete for the super bowl this year and anything short of that is not good enough and you also have to spend so much money to do so that jonathan grenard andrew van ginkle and blake cashman maybe you would have had one of them but you most certainly would not have had all of them. And that was always the thing. I fully believe if you took the 2020 version of Kirk Cousins and dropped it onto this football team right now, we would be talking about a very

legitimate Superbowl contender, but that's not how football works. You don't get to do that because everything costs something. And I think that when we were going through this off season, we were talking so much about what it was going to mean for McCarthy in the future that we sort of forgot that it could actually be good this year. And this is the trouble I'm having through two weeks. It's such an exciting win against San Francisco is how much weight to put on that as we evaluate the entire season and where they really are in that timeline if it gets accelerated so now all of a sudden if they beat Houston should we be talking about hey it doesn't matter if we expected it to be the future the future is right now buddy because when

we look around this roster it's interestingly not that young but it's not that old either it's a lot in its prime Brian O'Neill's in his prime Christian Derrissaw, Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison's a second year receiver. Now Aaron Jones is an older player. Grenard is in the middle of his prime. And I think that because the quarterback situation is young with JJ McCarthy, that we all equated that to, well, you've got a young roster, but they really don't. And I was thinking about this where we talk about Carolina or Chicago. Chicago's built up with some veterans, but so many teams draft quarterbacks when their roster isn't ready for them.

And I feel like this team is one of the rare exceptions that actually drafted a quarterback when their entire roster was ready for that player. And I know he's not going to play this year, but that's an interesting dynamic to me that the, what the environment that they've been able to create for Darnold and then JJ McCarthy is so vastly different from what you usually drop into for a journeyman who you're hoping can find himself or a rookie top 10 quarterback? Yeah, it's, you know, leading into the NFL draft. I mean, I think I heard from a bunch of different analysts and, and, and, and, and talking heads and people of, you know, that

which team is best suited to, for a young quarterback to go to? And the Vikings were absolutely listed by many people as, yeah, that's the team that you would want to land on. You have Kevin O'Connell as a very good quarterback coach, offensive mind. You have Jefferson. You have Hawkinson. You have Addison. You have all these weapons and an offensive line that is at least improving. So you look at that for J.J. McCarthy, great. But also I think what we maybe didn't talk enough about, and it's been mentioned, but like also that's great for Sam Darnold.

So if you're going to plop, if you say this is an ideal spot for a rookie quarterback to come in and play, then it's also an ideal spot for a borderline journeyman who's looking to prove himself, who wants to show that actually maybe this is a nature versus nurture argument and that he actually was just put in poor positions by the Jets and Panthers and has the physical tools. He's also still fairly young and can sort of reinvent himself. And so I think that's what we have seen so far with that element is that I think that the energy that you feel around this team in the, in these first two weeks is sort of that kind of newness in terms of the quarterback, because even though like, I am not nearly the,

the Kirk hater that you are. I don't know. I don't want to say hater, but certainly that, you know, just like the skeptic all all those things. But I also recognize that I think they got everything they could possibly get out of Kirk Cousins. And that I did not see another step up the ladder for him to take in his progression, in his development, especially coming off of an Achilles. But with Darnold, you kind of have this sort of exciting, like, hey, let's see what we have here. Like this is, you know, we've seen little bits and pieces of possible success with him in previous stops, but now he does have the environment around him and he can flourish.

And boy, if he flourishes, that really bodes well for J.J. McCarthy down the road, because there is a sense from the fan base that you don't know exactly where this team can go right now. I think there was a real sense in the Kirk version of things. We know what this team is and at its best, it's a playoff one round team and that's it. Maybe they will be worse eventually with Darnold, but you don't really know. And it looks really, this is fun and it looks really good right now. So that's what,

that's what's just an interesting dynamic for me is like, it's just looking at it and it, everything feels so new, even though you still have Smith, you still have Derisai, you still have Jefferson, you still have O'Neill, you still have Bradbury. You have Darisai. You still have Jefferson. You still have O'Neill. You still have Bradbury.

You have a lot of really familiar faces, but there's a couple of really new guys in very important positions that like, okay, like let's really see like who knows where this can, can lead. Folks, U S cellular noticed that the way we use our phones has gotten ironic. We try to put our phones down for dinner, but the menu is on a QR code.

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Kirk Cousins that I wish I had thought of many years ago, because you mentioned the hater thing. People on the internet would say that about me. But what it really is, is I hated the plan because with Kirk cousins, I think it's a great point that he played better as a Minnesota Viking. I think even by far than he did in

Washington, they got, they got the best possible version of him. And by the end he had led them very well and he had played really good football, but he was not somebody that could overcome a middling roster because of his physical tools. And also the other thing that people don't know is that I got along totally fine with Kirk Cousins as a reporter quarterback. And there's plenty of articles and one-on-ones and things like that, which people can go read. But I think it was more of the plan. I hated the plan of let's chase 2017 by paying him in 2018 and then completely change the offense and the entire philosophy up of the offense because you signed someone to a very expensive contract.

And once the ride was over, the 2017 ride was over, which was at the end of 2019 when they walked off the field in San Francisco after losing that game, I hated the decision to bring him back, but then try to rebuild on the fly with a very expensive veteran quarterback. So your big signings end up being Michael Pierce and Delvin Tomlinson and not the guys that we just mentioned. And Hey, by the way, they added Stefan Gilmore at the last moment, Stefan freaking Gilmore. Like this guy has been one of the best corners in the league. And they just said, Oh yeah, let's give him 10 million bucks at the one of the best corners in the league and they just said oh yeah let's give him 10 million bucks at the end of the summer because we have 10 million bucks to give a guy at the end

of the summer when before they were playing holton hill because they had no money the the guys that they were playing are not even in the league anymore is cam dantzler playing anywhere i mean there are so many instances like that where they couldn't afford that last guy in free agency that yes, that guy would have taken Kirk over the top, but they couldn't get him because of the way. And not only that, uh, the structure of his contracts, always the highest cap is we see lots of, uh, cap chicanery with, uh, let's push this down the road and, you know, whatever other games that they play. When you sign a two-year extension, there's none of that.

And so that was really the part that I didn't like as far as how they played it out. And now they've done it the opposite way. And when it comes to Darnold, I'm so interested always in journeyman quarterbacks or, you know, guys who have not done it before and they get their big opportunity case keenan was such a a fun ride there's several of these in the league now and it's reminded me john and i'm glad you're old as well because the matt hasselbecks the the trent greens the guys who were sort of like this in the early 2000s. I almost felt like they disappeared because it was either rising young quarterbacks

or it was so many great legends that just played forever. And there was a bunch of them. But now we've got old Aaron Rodgers. Drew Brees is gone. There's a number of other legends who have retired. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady over the last couple of years. And the door has sort of swung back open. It was almost like when Marino and Kelly and Elway retired,

the door is swung back open for a lot of these quarterbacks, I feel like. And I think that now environment is even more important than it's ever been, which leads to the question of, are you buying Sam Darnold? And also real quick though, the you buying Sam Darnold? And also real quick though, the decision to get Darnold, I'd love to go back and read the reviews of that when it happened, when they signed him, because I remember a lot of people not liking this. And I thought, well, who's better Jacoby Brissett, Ryan Tannehill. Why would that be a better choice than someone with upside? But, but I shouldn't pimp the home run yet. It's two weeks. Where do you think this thing is going?

Well, yeah, I think that one of the things that I have certainly tried to kind of keep in mind is that it is just two weeks. That he has had a couple of little flashes of stretches of good play before and then has ended up tailing off a little bit. That said, I think getting back to the conversation, I think that this environment that he is in is conducive to him sustaining success more than any other environment that he has been in. He is a former number three overall pick that was really highly thought of coming out of USC and was believed to be the kind of quarterback who could be a franchise player for 10 years. You know, this is different than Jacoby Bursette, who has always been, you know, lower round pick, kind of bouncing around, has outplayed the expectations and has put together a nice little career.

But, you know, this is for me, it's it for me it also feels different like i'll even go way back to like bringing gus farad in you know bringing guys like that in where yeah you know they had a maybe a a decent a little bit of success at some point um but they're at at the time that they were vikings were older, longer in the tooth, and you're trying to squeeze one more year out of them. I think with Darnold, it's different with Darnold. You're looking at it as, Hey, this kid has been done a disservice in this league to this point. And he has the physical tools to be a good quarterback. And so what I'm fascinated by with this whole situation is, I do think it is the ultimate nature versus nurture argument, because I think that there

are probably a lot of quarterbacks right now that are watching Sam Darnold play and say, see, I could have been that if I, if, you know, we didn't, if I didn't have four offensive coordinators in five years, if I didn't have, you know, this, if I didn't have, you know, a terrible offensive line, if I didn't have, you know, a lack of weapons, if I didn't have a defensive minded head coach, like there are all of these things that happen to young quarterbacks that, you know, that can lead you down the line of being able to say, ah, he was a bust, he didn't work out, when really maybe he was failed by the organization. And so I think that it is entirely possible, and I even said it at the beginning of the season

when I was still clearly reserving rights and a little pessimistic about the team, I could see a real scenario where Darnold had a very good season and, and can play either play himself either into more, more likely into a starting job elsewhere going forward. But, but I do, I've seen enough early on to say, I like his pocket presence. I like the way that he makes decisions. I like that he is willing to cut it loose down the seam to Jalen Naylor in a big spot. I like a lot of the intangibles that he has shown already. And man, he can throw the ball like he can really he can really rip it. So I think it all lines up for him to have a very good year. We will see if he can continue making good decisions and not throw three picks and and do that sort of stuff. But in terms of the environment and in terms of his ability to fit into what they want, it's a really good match.

And so it can absolutely, I think, work out over the long haul of this season for him to be a plus quarterback that helps them win games. cisco and winning that backup job and taking on that role in a humble way and even learning things from brock purdy that he's talked about which you know purdy's a younger quarterback than him and purdy is not the high draft pick at all as has been maybe slightly documented at times and i and i think that we've seen a lot of other quarterbacks christian ponder may have been a backup for a year and then was out of the league. I remember EJ Manuel was a first round pick in Buffalo was a backup for maybe a league a year and then out of the league. I think it's very, very difficult for a former first round draft pick to then go somewhere

else and say, I can build off of this. I can learn from this year. And he beat out Trey Lance. They had every reason to want Trey Lance to keep that job and stay in that competition. And they just had to go with Sam Darnold as a backup quarterback. And I think that said something about just his mentality and his approach. And then he comes here and we're all talking about JJ McCarthy. Well, yeah, Sam Darnold's on the team, but whatever, let's get, get out of here. Let's, let's see the McCarthy. Let's, let's talk about his practice reps every day. Darnold would be having good practices, throwing bombs to Jefferson

and be like, okay, I'm out of the way. Let's see what those second team reps look like for McCarthy. Never seemed to be bothered by that and took a very professional approach. Talked about going on golfing trips with McCarthy. He understood the assignment. And I don't think we can underrate that in a world of just massive ego and everybody kind of being all about, well, this should be all about me. I'm the talented guy. I guess we should, I think we should be talking about that as much as how bad his other

teams were yeah and I think like you know kind of yeah building off of all of that it would have been easy for him to say it's not my fault it's Adam Gase's fault. It's the Carolina Panthers fault. Like I have been wronged. And so I'm going to be pissed off about it. And I had to do this backup gig to this undrafted or to this last draft pick duty just to get a chance to to be a starter here. And now, oh, my gosh, they've already picked my replacement and this is all this is is is bs and i i don't deserve any of this and instead it appears that he has at least taken some accountability for the position that he's in and said it didn't work out in New York. It didn't work out in Carolina. I think that one thing he has realized or at least taken to heart right now is I am not Patrick Mahomes. I am not one of these guys who can succeed no matter what my environment is. I'm not that good. And so I have to have some humility and some accountability and then go about rebuilding my reputation in this league. And the only way to do that is to do it the right way, is to come here to Minnesota, work in this offense, also be acceptable to having J.J JJ McCarthy chosen. Um, you know, we, we already have seen kind of

cousins in the way that he really was, uh, panics, you know, that kind of thing. And, um, and so Darnold has not had that. And so I think that the overall humility with which he's gone about things so far and, and, so far and not ruffling feathers and just going about and doing the work, you can see is starting to endear him to his teammates as well. Now they look at him as kind of similar to what a lot of the other guys in that locker room overlooked or counted out or discounted, and now he's making a name for himself.

And when he walked into that locker room, they showed the video and how he was making a name for himself and when he walked into that locker room they showed the video and how he was mobbed by his teammates and stuff they're legitimately happy for him and i think that will allow him to continue to lead this team in a in a way that maybe he couldn't have right when he first arrived or if he went about this in in a way to make himself feel like a martyr or something like that. He hasn't done that. And that's been really impressive. And even on Sunday, Matthew, he was offered several opportunities to sort of puff his chest out.

And, hey, I told you so. Hey, I have someone believing in me finally. And now I'm showing what I can do. I always knew I could. And he never did that. It was very much of like flatline, you know, hey, this was a good win. We're just going to try and build on it. And so I think that all of that really is cementing him as right now

he's the quarterback of this team, whatever happens in the future. We'll see, but he's done a really good job of just being the guy and, and doing it in a way that is getting people to rally around him. I think that he gave some of the most boring quotes I've ever seen after a win like that. And yet I would give him a plus for the press conference. I mean, I try plus for the press conference. I mean, I try to separate the two. What's the right thing to do at the podium there versus what,

as a reporter, I would appreciate at the podium there. And the right thing to do is to take that approach. And you just don't know from our perspective, what's, what's he really going to be like when he gets here? I was listening to a podcast that Christian Hackenberg was on and he was making all sorts of excuses about how they had other quarterbacks in camp and they didn't give him enough reps and everything else. And that, if there's something that's going to guide Sam Darnold through, it's not leaning into the excuses of the past and saying, I could have done things better in those games to make my teams better. And I'm trying to correct those now. That mentality, I think, is going to give him a chance. Last thing for you in an NBA season.

It's very long. I don't know if you know this. It's a really quite long, a lot of games, especially when they play into May. Like, I don't I don't even know what to do with myself. Right. Yeah, that must have been crazy for you. But when do you feel like you have a good sense for whether a team is what they are from your first impression?

Because two games is the equivalent of what I would have to math really good here, but maybe it's the equivalent of the first month of the NBA season is, is two games. Do you know by then when, when, what week would you say, Hey, if they're still doing it, then they're good? Yeah, I think a lot of coaches that I've heard usually say it's like 20 to 25 games to really sort of work through their chemistry to just get used to playing with each other, to really kind of settle into who they are as a team, identity, all of those things. So, you know, that's like a quarter of the season.

So like, I would think I would askew a little bit earlier, like definitely on like the 20 game mark, I think is where I like to, I like to give a team that amount of time to really just be like, all right, like, let's get a real sample size of, of, of opponent strength of the road and home of just all sorts of different scenarios for them to go through. Um, before I'm, you know, making any, any real judgments about where they're at. Now, there are certain teams that will reveal themselves earlier. Like either you're really, really good and you're just stomping teams or you're really bad and just getting crushed. But in general, if you're a team that is not clearly like the best team in the league or one of the worst teams in the league, it's about, I think about 20 games

to really feel like, all right, is this a, is this a two seed? Is this a six, a seven seed? Is this, you know, where are they at? And so similar. So I think that would be probably in the four or five game, you know, range for the Vikings, like in a 17 game season. Then, yeah, I mean, heck, if they do beat Houston this weekend and do it impressively at home, I mean, now you, okay, okay, now it is really starting to look apparent that this is one of those teams that didn't make the playoffs the year before, that it flashes up and has a real chance like it happens every single year in the NFL. Yeah, no, you're right about that. If we could predict the NFL, then gamblers wouldn't lose so much money betting on games. I think that after they play Detroit coming out of the bye week, because that's a really tough opponent that will give us, we might need a little more sample when it's an unproven

quarterback than if it was Kirk and we can project forward. John Krasinski from the athletic. I just needed to get together with you and talk team building, talk bigger picture. You're the right guy to do it. And this was a lot of fun. Great insight, man. A football enthusiast, a tremendous NBA reporter, and now one of the unglassed people with no glasses.

So, yeah, you look great after the post LASIK. Life-changing. I told you, McCullough, at the game, you know, think about it just, but if you go tell them the John Krasinski show sent you and, uh, and let me, let me get a little bit of shine for it. But yeah, uh, big fan of the LASIK for sure. All right. Well, yeah, I, I have the, uh, the context. I know you do. So, okay. I didn't know if anyone else knew that because you said one,

like one of the blind people, but anyway, uh, well, that's the end of the show. Thanks so much uh john for joining and uh you do you want to say football once just give us a give us a football football