Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings the future of the NFC North?

Episode Date: November 20, 2020

Matthew Coller and Bleacher Report's Kalyn Kahler talk about every NFC North team and their outlook going forward this year and beyond. Is there any path for the Bears to be good? Why has Justin Jefferson been a game changer for the long-term view of the Vikings? Do the Packers have a good case or too much uncertainty? And LOLions and their wannabe Patriot Way. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm Grant Wall, and this is American Prodigy, ready to do, from Blue Wire Podcast. Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and from Bleacher Report, Kalen Kaler. Kalen, I am joining you on this Zoom call like already worked up, and it's not your fault. It's the Internet's fault for not understanding me and what I'm trying to convey to them about the NFC North. So you can calm me down a little bit here because I might become argumentative with

myself. So this is not personal, okay? Gotcha. Let me just start by asking you this. And don't be concerned about making my head explode if you say that the answer is not the Vikings. But just on the whole, if I said to you that I think the Vikings have the best outlook for the future of any team in the NFC North, am I a crazy person? The Internet has treated me today like I'm a crazy person.

I don't think it's crazy because you can definitely rule out two teams right off the bat, which is the Bears and the Lions. In my opinion, you can rule those guys out because the Bears don't have a quarterback. I mean, I was going to get to this later, but it's just the craziest thing about what's going on with them right now to me is that they didn't draft a quarterback in any round of the draft or sign on draft. Like, they didn't draft a quarterback in any round of the draft or sign on draft.

Like, they didn't do anything. They brought in Nick Foles, which I think they thought was the solution, was going to work, and clearly it hasn't. I don't think that was a bad decision for them to bring in Nick Foles and trade for him. I understand why they did that. There was a lot of potential and upside there, but clearly it hasn't worked. And I just think even if you're bringing in Nick Foles,

that's probably not going to be your long, long-term answer. And you already knew Mitch wasn't going to be the answer going into this season, even if they wanted to pretend like they didn't know, they knew. So that's the thing I don't understand about where they're at right now. And it just became really alarming on Monday night when we saw Nick Foles get hurt at the end of that game. And then Trubisky is also hurt from playing one play like three weeks ago. And then Tyler Bray comes onto the field and I'm just like,

how is there not a rookie quarterback developing on this roster? I was talking to somebody who's aers recently, and they always do that. They always have an undrafted free agent quarterback working his way up. Tim Boyle, their undrafted dude. Obviously, they have Jordan Love now and the Rodgers-Farve thing. And then they turned around a couple guys earlier in the 2000s. They turned around a couple good backups for draft value. I mean, it's just a smart thing to do.

That's the thing that confused me the most about where the Bears are right now. So long story short, no, I don't think you're crazy because, you know, I think it's either Green Bay because if they do – if Jordan Love is good, I think, you know, they have a good future ahead of them. And then the other two teams, I don't know. Yeah, I don't think you could argue that they're set for the future. So, no, I don't think they're crazy. You wrote a terrific piece that all Vikings fans will appreciate.

I tweeted it out, and I saw a lot of other people sharing it too about Matt Patricia, which we will get into because on this very podcast, I think I spent, after the Lions game, seven straight minutes ranting about how I couldn't believe how bad the Lions were. And things have really fallen in the Vikings direction these last couple weeks, playing two teams that are at the bottom and they're floundering around with no seeming to have a clue of where they're going to go in the future, as you mentioned with Chicago. Good for Tyler Bray, though. He's thrown like four passes now in his career and played in the NFL for eight years.

That's a good job if you can get it, I guess, for Tyler Bray. So we totally agree on that. And the Bears, I'm really amazed by because they go the Nick Foles route where you know that Nick Foles only performs at a high level when everything is just amazing around him and it's only happened a couple times in his career every time he's been in a tough spot he's been a bottom tier quarterback by far and so going with him as opposed to Cam Newton as opposed to Teddy Bridgewater as opposed to drafting someone and now they're just looking around going, now what?

And if Allen Robinson leaves in free agency, what do you have? You have no offensive linemen to work with. You have no weapons to work with. And it seems like you have an offensive scheme that is even limiting the talent that you do have in Chicago. Yeah, I think the interesting thing about Monday's game, everybody was excited to see what the Bears would do on offense because Nagy gave up play calling for the first time

in his head coaching career in Chicago, which people thought, oh, maybe this is going to help. And I actually think now that we know how that worked out and it was just as bad, if not worse, I think it actually was a really smart decision for him from a selfish, like, save my own ass perspective. I mean, by giving play calling to his offensive coordinator, his play calling was not necessarily what was dooming this offense. Someone else's is just as bad.

And by doing that, he can subtly blame Ryan Pace, the general manager. At least that's how I read into the situation because it's very clear, like, their offensive line is really struggling. They don't have talent on offense. They've had so many picks that have just not really panned out for them. And the fact that the only touchdown they can score is a special team's kickoff return touchdown, it's just, I I mean so I do think he did a good job of giving up the play calling to kind of throw up his hands in a way and be like you know

what what can we do to fix this like this is a roster problem at this point so I thought that was actually smart and that was kind of my takeaway from watching Monday I was like oh interesting like this might have been a smart decision for him. And I also think with Foles being hurt, although it doesn't seem like it's super serious, I haven't seen the latest update on that, but I think it was a hit pointer, which was not as serious as they thought it was going to be. I don't know how much time he's going to miss, but I think that might also help. I don't know where Nagy's job is going this year.

It's hard to predict that. But if they keep losing and Foles is hurt, I think that could also help to make an argument of he needs another chance. But I think the biggest question there is should Ryan Pace get a chance to pick the franchise quarterback for the Bears? Because he screwed it up the first time. Does he earn a second chance? And this is a team that has literally, like, never had a franchise quarterback. Been looking for this player for decades.

So, yeah, I think that's something that the McCaskies are really going to have to meditate on over the next few weeks. I love your read on it because one of the things that maybe people on the outside don't always realize is the games that get played for self-preservation. We all think, well, why didn't they just do this? Or why did they make that move? That was kind of weird. It's like, pull back the curtain a little bit and think about what you're trying to

present to ownership, whose fault you're trying to make this. And even with the Vikings, they went from the beginning of the year, oh, you negative media think we're going to struggle this year. Then they're 1-5. Well, it's really about the future, guys. It's really about making progress. And now they're 4-5. Actually, we're back in the playoff race because we've done such a great job of coaching.

Like, wait, which one is it? You guys got to pick one. But I think that if you're talking about getting the bears back into contention i see no path i don't know how you get there i mean even if you draft a quarterback in the coming up draft where there's a lot of good quarterbacks you're not drafting the best one or the second best one or the third best one because those are going to go in the top three or four so are you getting you know mac jones or something and then you're going to try to rebuild around the fifth best quarterback and there's so many things you have to do to put

them in a good situation I think we see the quarterbacks who succeed right away they also have a great situation like Tua with Miami he couldn't ask for much better to drop into but I mean this looks like a several year project and, and at the same time, the defense already showing a little bit of signs of losing its mojo a little bit. So by the time you're building back the offense, the defense isn't good again. And it just seems like this is a very long-term project for the Bears. Absolutely. I haven't thought that far ahead, but you're right. I don't really see how they fix this just next year and that's the problem is

because the defense is good right now and has been good for the last two years this is like their third year being a really good and strong defense and that's just not going to be sustainable for even maybe like two more seasons I don't see that working out. And even like after the game, I was listening to Eddie Jackson's availability. He's Chicago safety. And he was not, his words were not mean or like rude. He was not throwing anyone under the bus, but he said a couple of times,

like, you know, we know as a defense, we're going to do our job and he he said all that he just reinforced a lot like i think at one point he had said like we know if we don't let the opponent score we will win so that's sort of the mentality that the spares defense has is like well if we just don't let the other team score it's fine we don't even have to score points we'll just win because the other team won't score because they don't have any faith in that offense right now and then he mentioned another

time I don't have this exact quote in front of me but he said something like you know players need to be more accountable like coaches aren't always going to call the best play like he said something along those lines and I was like interesting okay so and I do think that's another reason why Nagy gave up the plate calling. I mean, he had to if he was going to be a self-aware human being. So, you know, if he was going to hold on to that for any more weeks, he already held on to it for too long, in my opinion. But at some point, you will lose the locker room if you don't admit my play calling isn't working and I don't think it's really hard to tell this year without being able to go into the locker room because I would

usually go into Chicago like at least once a week maybe twice a week if I was not traveling and I don't do that obviously nobody's doing that anymore and so it's really hard to get a sense of if you know what the players are feeling and thinking because we're not in there so it's really hard to you know get the sense of like is the defense like ready to murder everyone on offense or like are they okay like I have no idea and that's something that I'm really curious about and like from a head coach from a Matt Nagy perspective like you know that's his job to make sure that everybody is still has you know, morale, even though this is their second year in a row for a game losing streak. So I don't know.

Like, I think the Vikings are doing the reverse Bears right now. Like every game the Bears lose, the Vikings win. And I do think like at the end of the season, it's going to be Packers, then Vikings. And then I don't know, toss up between Bears-Lions. Like, I could see the Lions. Lions have, like, a soft schedule for the next couple weeks, so I could see them maybe winning a couple more. It's going to be interesting.

But I definitely think the Vikings will be, like, that second team in NFC North. And I'll get your opinion on a few Vikings things because you had a chance to see them up close. Let me say first that what you do in terms of being a feature writer and a columnist is great, but you have the instincts of a beat reporter of like reading between the lines. And it's one of my favorite parts of the job is to try and figure out what are people really saying by what they're talking to us about. And anytime I get, oh, those press conferences are just cliches. Like, you would be surprised. And what you're saying actually sounds a lot like things that I heard

in Minnesota in 2016 about the defense. Like, well, we're just trying to do our job. And there was a little bit in the beginning of the year when the Vikings were struggling of the offense saying, well, we're not getting very many plays because we're not on the field enough. And you're like, oh, oh well whose fault would that be who are you uh pointing it to um but in terms of like the vikings ascending throughout this season the way i look at it is they'll probably come just short of the playoffs because of the hole

they put themselves into but what we've seen come about over the last few weeks, and especially with Justin Jefferson, to me is the turning point of how good could you be in the future? If Justin Jefferson was Laquan Treadwell, I would look at this and go, oh, I don't know. I don't know. Right? But you saw him up close in Chicago the other day. My gosh. I mean, he has just been a dream for them. And now you're looking at it saying you have a setup for whether it's Kirk Cousins or whether you trade Kirk Cousins and draft somebody else

that has multiple young offensive linemen, that has multiple young weapons, and maybe one of the best wide receivers in the NFL to work with. I look at that as being one of the better situations going forward in the NFL, especially with knowing that Zimmer can just scheme his defense to be good, even if they have some talent issues on certain positions. Yeah, I totally agree. I was going to mention, like, they had a – I think Minnesota had a really good offseason, even though, you know, they had to clear a bunch of those

defensive veterans off the team and kind of, like, start – I don't know if you would say it was rebuilding, but like in a sense it was kind of like turning a lot of guys over, bringing a lot of young guys, a lot of rookies. I thought they had a really good offseason, and it's interesting to trade the Stephon Diggs trade now that we're at the midway point of the season. We can kind of evaluate that a little bit better. And, I mean, that's like a one trade where it looks like both teams

have really benefited from that equally almost um because you know Josh Allen finally has a number one receiver and Stefan Diggs is doing great over there and you know the Vikings were able to use that pick on Justin Jefferson who is going to be a great talent and already is I mean I think he's got already four games with over 100 yards receiving this season, which I think is about, and maybe that was the expectations for him, but, you know, as a rookie you never know. So I think he's performing really well.

So that's a trade that I think is great, and it just worked out for both parties. So, yeah, I agree with you. And I think right now they have a 30%, Vikings have a 30.4% chance to make the playoffs. I read that in The Athletic, according to their calculations, which that's pretty good, actually. That's, like, that's really good. So, I don't know.

They got the Cowboys next, right? Like, I don't know. I think that's a winnable game. You guys already beat – Vikings already beat the Packers once, which means it'll probably be harder to beat them a second time. But, you know, I don't know. I do think this division, I think the NFC has a lot of teams that have issues. It's not as strong as the, I think we thought the NFC was a lot stronger

than the AFC, and then, like, as the season has gone, has gone, we've seen the Packers have a big issue on defense. I just think there's a lot when it comes to the two wild card spots. There's just a lot of teams that have problems. So it'll be interesting. But I definitely think there's potential for the Vikings this year. And I do too. I just have covered them long enough to see them losing to Dallas or something. It's very classic.

I 100% agree with your point about the NFC, where I would say, are the Vikings worse than the Cardinals? Probably not. They put themselves in a big hole by botching some things, some close games and then a no-show against Atlanta. But as a whole team, the talent and even some of the numbers, like yards per play, the Vikings are number one in the entire NFL. So you go, I mean, are you that much worse than a team that is 6-3 and has troubles?

And all you need is one of them to kind of slip back, whether it's the Cardinals or the Rams or the Seahawks who are kind of sliding now. I still have a tough time seeing it because I think that there's like, like the seas have parted between the good and the bad and the Vikings are kind of there floating in the middle. And they might just have too tough of a hole to dig themselves out of. But that's like the short term perspective. The long term perspective is you either go with kirk cousins forward and he's good enough to be in the jimmy g jared goff can get you there when everything's perfect and you're also almost getting everything to be perfect around him and that's that's where the the forward outlook and um i i think is good for them they made mistakes in the offseason um

at times the yannannick Ngakwe trade would be the most obvious, but also had a bunch of draft picks to use and hitting on the top draft picks. And this is where I want to talk about the Packers and some of the differences there and why I do think the Vikings have a better outlook is because the Packers' first two draft picks last year, one is a quarterback they may never use the other one is a running back that won't ever matter and the vikings top draft picks are a star wide receiver instantly an offensive lineman who's already been very very good to start his career and then a corner we'll see um that to me is way more valuable in terms of stacking up your roster around cousins so we get to the same point where it's like Aaron Rodgers needs to drag the

franchise. How long can Aaron Rodgers drag the franchise? That's why I look at it and say, is it a year? Is it two years? Do they trade him? And that's really the deciding factor of would the Vikings be better long term? Yeah.

I mean, I think Kirk gets a lot of crap and I don't think he necessarily deserves it at all times. I think Kirk, like, I think if I were the Vikings, I would not draft another quarterback. Like, I would roll with Kirk. I think he can do it. I don't know. Because I think a lot of times, like, a lot of the interceptions that he throws are not necessarily his fault in many of the situations yet he seems to get I mean a lot of you can say this about a lot of quarterbacks they they tend to get the blame for those um but I feel like with Kirk it's even more so and like now that he finally

won his first Monday night game it's like all right like we got some momentum let's go um but I you know I would I would roll with Kirk um and just keep building around him as they're doing. And I think that's the key with him is, like, you give him some good receivers. I mean, Thielen's still great. Jefferson is going to become that guy. Yeah, and I think with Jordan Love, like, I do think the Bears, if he would have made it into the second round, I think, I don't know if they would have drafted him, but I think they would have thought about it long and hard.

Because I know that there were a lot of people within Chicago who really liked Jordan Love, which is interesting because it's like, okay, does that mean he's actually really good? Or does that mean he's the wrong choice? Because they made the wrong choice earlier. So I thought about that a little bit I'm like I'm really interested to see what happens with Jordan Love because he could either be the absolutely correct choice or he could be like a total strikeout um which I guess is the same with any quarterback draft pick but I am really curious about him um and I think I mean I like that pick I I don't know I liked And I think, I mean, I like that pick.

I don't know. I liked it. I think, like, I think it does set him up for the future because I do think Rodgers is going to be that quarterback who has to end his career somewhere else. Like, I think he is going to get pushed out at some point, and he's going to be like a Brady, and he's not going to be ready to retire. And he's going to be like, nah, Brady played until he was 44, you know,

or however long Brady keeps playing for. I think Rodgers is going to be like nah Brady played till he was 44 you know or however long Brady keeps playing for I think Rodgers is going to be that exact same type of quarterback where he's either just going to get tired of Green Bay which I'm surprised he isn't yet but right like I think Matt LaFleur really helped like if they hadn't fired McCarthy I think he would have tried to get out of there uh sooner than now but I do think he's have tried to get out of there sooner than now. But I do think he's going to be the type of quarterback that at the end of his career he's not going to finish it in Green Bay. He's going to be somewhere else because he just wants to keep going

and thinks he can. And I think he can too. So I do think I loved the Jordan Love draft pick. I loved it. I want to remind you to go to SodaStick.com to get your original Minnesota sports-inspired goods. There are many great designs. Someone on Twitter recently sent their John Randall shirt,

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Soda Stick, original Minnesota sports inspired goods. Code Purple Insider for free shipping. I loved the idea of drafting a quarterback in the first round when your former MVP looked like he was fading statistically. Now he's bounced back statistically this year, and he's been really good. And I don't know how much of that is a small sample size or if they changed something with their offense or whatever. The last time I saw him, he was trying to throw in 50 mile an hour wins and it wasn't going super good. But, and even, I don't know, the Packers just have a lot of weaknesses that he seems to be able to make up for. And that even honestly, Aaron Jones

has been able to make up for, like not having an effective number two or number three receiver and trying to throw to tight ends all the time when you're not targeting Devante Adams all the time has been mitigated a little bit by being able to throw even downfield if you want to Aaron Jones because he's just fantastic and that's it sort of all goes back to the what about the future because if you're right and they still move on from Aaron Rodgers even even if he's great, if they're doing the last dance thing and they're saying, well, okay, we're going to get the most out of him. And maybe we go 11 and five and get to the championship game and lose.

Now we're going to turn it over to our first rounder. You don't know how good Jordan Love will be, even if he is talented and what you're giving him. Like he's got a great left tackle but the rest of the offensive line uh you have aaron jones who probably is going to go somewhere else or be very expensive you have still your one receiver but he's very expensive and he's in his prime so he'll be good for you but beyond that what can you give your first round quarterback and how much can you ask him to overcome it and by the way on the defensive side your defensive coordinator seems to be clueless and you have a great corner

and then what I mean I think Z'Darrius Smith is still good but there's a lot of holes there to fill and I think that if it's not Aaron Rodgers to go forward with that's going to be a lot tougher than Kirk Cousins with all the things that he has plus Zimmer's scheme. Yeah, that's a good point. They have a lot of holes on defense that it's going to take a while to sort of make that unit stronger. It was really interesting that they didn't draft a receiver like in any of the rounds of that draft. And I was talking to somebody there about that this season

because I feel like they were kind of like, ha-ha, joke's on everybody else. Like, we didn't even need the draft receiver. Like, we're fine over here. And I was asking them, like, why they didn't. And the reason was just essentially, like, you know, everybody talks about their draft board and, like, the value. And I guess the receivers that they really,

really liked were all gone by the point that they were picking in the first round, which is crazy to me because that receiver class is so deep. Right. That sounds like a weak excuse. I know. And that's kind of what they said is like, well, you know, none of them were like worth where they were at that point in the draft according to their board.

And then, you know, we saw before the trade deadline, all the reports coming out of there that they couldn't agree on the value of will fuller which is like just another really i mean that was just kind of funny to me because it's like i mean they clearly think they're fine like they i mean if they really felt like they needed a receiver and if aaron was begging them for a receiver you would hope that they would just agree to get Will Fuller at whatever the cost the Texans were asking was um so I don't know that was a really interesting sort of like trade um that never actually ended up happening but I think it just proves how either how little they value a receiver or how they think that their offense is really fine

without one at this point which is really bizarre because when rogers is at his best he usually had multiple very good receivers and uh when you look at what they have now it's just such a massive drop off from one guy that is asked to drag everybody else. I don't really get the excuses because you drafted a running back in the second round when you already have not one, but two good running backs on your team. And also you can find them in the fourth round, the fifth round, wherever you want. Running backs are usually available, especially when the defense is putting most of its focus on stopping your Hall of Fame quarterback um i think we've seen that as a trend who was the guy james starks would probably attest to that you can find running backs around and then aaron rogers will help you be

better um so that i didn't get also aaron rogers should be hired immediately as an advanced scout after his career because he was obsessed with Justin Jefferson and wanted him and to me this is if I'm running the Packers and your quarterback says you know what's really great is that Justin Jefferson can we like trade up and get him uh I'm not saying nah I mean you only have so many more shots and if Jordan Love doesn't work out you don't have shots for a long time we've seen how Mitch Trubisky can set back a franchise if you go bust on that so why they didn't push the chips into the middle of the table and now they're just kind of hanging out in the middle hoping that Aaron drags them to success

and and that uncertainty would have me say that I'd rather be the Vikings now if you tell me next year that Rodgers is there playing at a hall of fame level again of course you'd rather be the Packers but if we're playing the odds to to me, it's not weighted super heavily toward the Vikings, but it's like a 60-40, I think. Yeah, yeah, I think I agree with that. And I think this year, the Packers are benefiting, obviously, from a weaker NFC North, where as it's, you know, as we've progressed, like, they're the only team that's clearly at a different level than the other three teams. And even when the Bears were 5-1, it was very clear that they were not going to be able to sustain that level.

They were just like the biggest, you know, the worst 5-1 team were just a bunch of posers on that record. So I think it was really clear from the start of this season that, like, the Packers were a step ahead of everybody else. So I think they're definitely benefiting from that this year. And, you know, if they were in another division, it may not be as, you know, it might not work as well for them. Let's talk about the Lions for a minute, because when you published your piece right after I went insane on this podcast about the Lions, I wanted to run outside with it and be like, see? I am not a crazy

person. Someone else wrote this, not me. I watched the tape back, and I was just like, this is nuts. They're playing the same defense that they played against the Vikings when they put up 40 points against them last year and you changed nothing. And now their situation is made worse because Matt Stafford is old. And even if he plays well, it's another injury for him with the thumb here. And he's very expensive next year.

I think he's the seventh most expensive quarterback in the league and then you have a defense where they spend a bunch of money and still couldn't be better I don't think um and if you want to share some fun Patricia anecdotes from your story please do but I don't think it's as simple as just firing Patricia um and then all of a sudden they bounce back because their quarterback situation is kind of complicated too. Yeah, it definitely is. I really like Matt Stafford, but I do think the best thing for him and for the Lions would be for them to trade him somewhere else. I think he needs to just, like, start over.

I feel bad for him because, like, on Sunday, you know, I think he finally thought he was going to be able to relax and afford service. And then he has to go out and, like, try to win the game with 16 seconds left. And, I mean, and that became the storyline of that game was, oh, how amazing Matt Stafford is that he could, you know, lead them. And Matt Prater, the Mats, except for Matt Patricia um so that became the storyline I'm like oh my gosh this game saving field goal and this like amazing you know I don't know if it was like three two or three completions to set up that field goal but that shouldn't be the story of that game the story of that game is that they gave up 21 unanswered points to Alex Smith, who is playing on one leg. No offense to Alex Smith, because he looked great. But like, you guys, what? I mean, they have, I think

they have now like the league's worst defense and unexpected points allowed, they are dead last. So it's just, like, I had to put that game on. I had to find a Reddit stream of that game so I could watch the whole thing because, like, I wasn't seeing enough on Red Zone. I was like, once they were up 24 to 3, I was like, no, I have to put this. I got to get the actual stream up because I didn't have it on my cable here. I only had whoever was playing locally. So I had to get it up on my Reddit stream because I'm like, I just have a feeling that this is not going to last and something's going to happen here, and I wanted to see what Alex Smith is going to do.

So I put it up, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, it was crazy. So, yeah, I mean, it was just more yeah I mean it was just more of the same it's more of the same every single week they've given up even though they ended up winning that game I still count that as blowing a double digit oh yeah oh yeah because they had a 21 point lead and that was actually their biggest of their double digit leads this season that they have blown but it was their fourth one this season so it's's wild. And, like, I was talking to a Vikings coach who was like, yeah, I mean, you know, he runs basically that New England's game defense, and it's just like there's nobody scary that you have to game plan against

when you're playing them. There's not, like, a Khalil Mack or, you know, there's nobody who you're like, oh, this guy's going to wreck our offensive plan this week. So that's an issue. And I think, like, I mean, Brian Flores has done this in Miami where he's brought in some ex-Patriots players, guys who have that experience in that system. And obviously that's something that even coaches that aren't from the Patriot way do. That's just, you know, something that coaches do is bring in guys who you're familiar with and who you trust and you think are good players.

And they did that. The Lions did that this offseason with three guys on defense. And it's just none of them are really threatening in any way. Like, they're just kind of all past their prime, I think. It was Jerron Harmon, Danny Shelton Trey Flowers um Jamie Collins those are the guys on on former New England guys on their defense and like none of them are I don't know they're just all like not very scary as that coach said and it's as you mentioned earlier it's really predictable they play a ton of man coverage. And when I was reporting the story, that was one of the complaints of, like,

former Lions players that I talked to was, like, the defensive guys that first year were like, oh, my gosh, the offenses know exactly what we're going to be doing on every snap. Like, you know, and that was a huge complaint for a lot of those guys. And Glover Quinn told me that he would take those complaints to Patricia that year and voice them to make sure he heard them. But like nothing would really change. And then another player who I talked to, I had asked him like, hey, you know, what did you think of that? Like, was that something you would ever consider like bringing up to a coach and saying like, look, we're, we're the ones who are out there playing and we don't think it's working.

And he was like, no, I never considered even like like broaching that topic because he's like, coaches are going to call what they want to call. And they all have their own ideas of like things that work and things that don't. And he referenced another team he had played for that. They did, they had played like the same coverage, 10 snaps in a row. And that was just things that don't. And he referenced another team he had played for that they had played, like, the same coverage 10 snaps in a row, and that was just, like, what they did. So it's not exclusively Matt Patricia here, but, you know,

this player was like, I wouldn't bring it up because, I mean, he's not going to change it because we don't think it's working. Like, this is his team. He's going to do the things the way he wants to do it. So it's really fascinating everything that's happening there. And I'm not going to say with finality that it cannot work because, you know, I could see them winning two in a row now. Or they won last week, so I could see them winning their next two games.

I think they have Texans and is it Panthers? No. No, Panthers is Vikings in two weeks. The Vikings play the Panthers in two weeks. Okay. So they probably play them along the way somewhere. I'll look it up. Yeah.

They have Texans next, I think, and then, I don't know, they just have a winnable, they have a couple winnables. Oh, they have Panthers this week and then Texans, and then Bears, so they could win their next three. Right. They could feasibly win the next three. So I can see that happening. I don't think it will happen because they're definitely going to lose at least one of those,

considering they could hardly put away the Washington football team. So I don't see this going into next year, going into 2021 with Matt Patricia. So I don't think it will work. But I do think this year year what I learned from my reporting was like there was a ton a ton a ton of like resistance among players that first year because he came in just wanting to like change everything and he acted like this is coming from the players he acted like they were all bad and like they weren't a good football team they had a long way to go was the thing He kept repeating over and over again.

Right. When they were 9-7. Right. Right. And so that rubbed a lot of guys the wrong way because they were like, who is this dude just, like, coming in here, like, acting like he's better than us and, like, acting like he knows everything and, like, that everything we were doing before was wrong. And his style was also a lot different.

So, like, they had to condition had which they didn't have to do most NFL teams will not have their players conditioning after practice which I mean like running sprints and running hills things like that um you know they their bodies they had to work a lot harder during the week so a lot of guys felt like when it come to Sunday they just were tired and like they weren't at their best physical condition to play an NFL game. And then he had a lot of like nitpicky rules, like no music in the locker room, no jewelry on the field, things like that. He has he does now allow music in the locker room. So that is something like he's listened to the players on and like maybe a little bit of a change. Maybe you should have listened to him about defense instead of music in the locker room.

Right. So like there was kind of like mass rebellion that first year and then you see what you see with a lot of coaches where they want to get rid of the guys who aren't on board and that's why i don't know why it's not working this year and i'm confused because in his third year now he has kind of shipped he of shipped off anybody who was a loud person who did not follow his vibes. So, like, Glover Quinn was released after that first year. Darius Slay was traded last offseason. Quandary Diggs was traded midseason at the trade deadline last year. Golden Tate was gone that first year.

Like, in the last three years, he has gotten rid of all these people, all these players who weren't down for his system. So now, and this is what I heard from current players and one player who was there up until September, August or September, he told me, I really felt like we were going to have a breakthrough this year. I thought we were going to be good. Like, because everybody was on board. There were no sort of voices in opposition anymore. They were used to the conditioning. They're used to the longer practices.

They're used to the longer meetings. They're used to all the ways that Patricia does things. So this player was like, yeah, I really thought we were going to be good. I don't understand why it's not working. And the two players I talked to currently on the roster, Taylor Decker and Matt Prater, said the same thing. They were like, everyone's on board. We're all, like, rowing in the same direction.

So it's hard. It's hard to understand because, like, players said Patricia's so smart with his X's and O's. That's something I heard from everybody. Like, when they had meetings with him, they were like, I agree with that. Like that's yes. Like I'm learning something new. That's really interesting. Like I put his football knowledge up against anybody. I kept hearing that over and over. So if everyone's on board and you're a smart football coach, what's the problem? That's what I'm having a hard time understanding right now. Thank you. no long-term contracts. And now Indeed's new way of matching you with candidates instantly delivers

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Don't forget to use promo code BLUEWIRE at BetOnline.ag. That's BLUEWIRE, all one word, BetOnline, your online sportsbook experts. I think part of it is all the players you named were good. And if you have good players that want to be away from you, that's a you problem. That's not a them problem. You can't just, it isn't college where you just have some other five-star recruit coming to whatever, you know, LSU or something. And you say, well, you don't want to be here. Like, well, actually, sir, it's pretty hard to get a great safety,

and you can't just run him out of town. Your number three receiver being Golden Tate, when he's very good at football, is good for you, and you need to work with that player. Darius Slay is a shutdown corner, but you're leaving him out there in man coverage all the time when they know he's in man coverage, and all of a sudden his PFF grades are tanking and his numbers are tanking and he's looking bad coverage and all of a sudden his pff grades are tanking and his numbers are tanking and he's looking bad i'm sure that was frustrating to him and if you're not listening to him and what he needs to succeed getting rid of him is not the answer i mean this

is and the other thing too is i just have a tough time i think that there are like culture warrior coaches who are just like i do all this stuff for the culture. Like what players really want you to do is draw up the dang place. And like, they, they don't care about that stuff. These are the guys who already dedicate their entire life to this. And if you're a proven veteran, you don't need anybody to make you run after practice. Cause you did that in the off season to be ready to play. Like you, you don't, you just need them to scheme properly.

And I thought when you mentioned that about the X's and O's versus scheme of John D Filippo where I talked to John D Filippo a bunch of times myself and I was like man this guy knows every scheme that's ever happened this dude knows all sorts of football but when it came to scheming for the other team that's where it was a lot different so I think that those are like two different skills of being able to scheme versus knowing how football works and um what what's weird though to me is that Belichick's whole deal is like how can I adjust what I do to take away your best players when they played the Vikings in 2018 they doubled Thielen and Diggs on third downs they're like let's see uh Laquan Treadwell beat us pal and guess And guess what? He didn't.

And he also knew exactly what would throw off Kirk Cousins on third downs. He had everyone walking around before the snap. You've seen Flores do this. And so Cousins was, like, a little confused, and it all just fell apart. I don't see the Lions do anything like that. They're just like, oh, we'll play single high safety against a quarterback who shreds single high safety and go to town. So it'll be really interesting because if you're a Vikings fan, you are semi-rooting for their little run.

Like, you're semi-going, yeah, win just enough so Matt Patricia can argue to keep his job for next year because you're going nowhere with that guy. Right. I just really think ownership, Lions ownership, the Fords, first of all, they have a different one. Martha Ford's daughter, Sheila, is like now the controlling owner making the decisions. This is her first season. She just took over that this offseason. So it's going to be really interesting to see what she does because there really isn't a point to like firing him during the season, I don't think, because I'm not sure that there's anyone there who we're thinking, like, interim head coach potential, like, let's see how he does.

I could be wrong, but I don't know if there's really that coach on that staff right now. So it's going to be interesting to see what she does in her first sort of major decision. But they did issue a playoff mandate last December when they said Quinn and Patricia would get one more year. They said, we need to be playing meaningful games in December. That was the quote. And I don't see that happening this year. So if they're going to stick to their guns on that they are going to have to get rid of him and I think I don't see a situation where Bob Quinn outlasts Patricia

either because Bob Quinn has never worked anymore except for New England um I think he was like a grad assistant at University of Connecticut and then went to the Patriots and like that's it and then went to the Lions so like the only way that he knows is the Patriot way. And I just think his draft picks haven't been very good. You know, they picked a corner with the third overall pick this year. And not Tua, who could have been set up to take over. Exactly. Yeah, so that was a weird choice. I did not like that draft pick.

And it's too early to say if he's a bust, but he hasn't played very well yet this season. So I think they're both gone, and I think they're inextricably tied to each other. So I don't think you can get rid of Patricia and then think Bob Quinn is going to hire someone who's not going to do the exact same thing. And that's the interesting part is, part is like the patriot way is kind of this like nebulous concept but it's very much a real thing of these coaches who come out of there like josh mcdaniel's and that was one of the most interesting things of this story i asked

matt prater i was like matt prater played in denver with josh mcdaniel right before he was in in detroit and i was like hey you know do you see any similarities between the way Matt Patricia started his career in Detroit versus the way Josh McDaniels ran his team in Denver and if we'll all remember Josh McDaniels didn't even last two seasons in Denver because he sort of built a reputation of trading away good players and um which sounds familiar and then also kind of installing this like micromanaging like paranoia culture um that didn't really mesh with anybody uh which came straight from New England so I asked Matt Prater you know did you see any similarities he was like oh yeah like lots of similarities like the way that they game plan

during the week which you know that could be good or bad but he was like the way that they game plan during the week, which, you know, that could be good or bad. But he was like, the way they game plan during the week, the way they run their practices, like he kind of just pointed to like, yeah, it's like the same thing, essentially, which I thought, I don't think he realized what he was saying when he said that. But I was like, ah, red alert. Right, right. Comparing him to the guy who got fired, right.

Yeah. So I do think there is like a trend of coaches coming from Belichick being unable to do their own thing. I think Brian Flores has figured out a good balance of what he's doing there. And I think Joe Judge, too early to tell, too early to tell, but I think he has also figured out his own way as well while taking some of the stuff that is polarizing, polarizing from new England, like running laps,

which he like got heavily criticized for during training camp. But it seems like his team likes him from all the reports that I see from New York. So the patient, we think. Except for his offensive line coach. That seems to be an issue. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm not using this video portion, but you doing the red alert thing needs to be a gif, I think. Just any time we see some coach having some major problems, here's you go, red alert, red alert. Belichick tree alert, Belichick tree alert.

Yeah. So I remember listening to Joe Thomas talk about this when I think Mangini was it, Coach the Browns? And he said that he would have players, like, memorize little sayings around the facility and then have to stand up in meetings and recite them back. And he was just like, I'm a left tackle, man. Like, what are you doing? This is a waste of time.

You're wasting lots of time with this. And, you know know Belichick is the best at scheming individual games and also had Tom Brady and so if you have like whoever was Kyle Orton or something as Josh McDaniels good luck trying this and even with uh Matt Stafford like he's not Tom Brady he's not he's not going to have that leadership element but also just not as good and not going to paint over any problems that you have um so there's just there's some huge differences there um this has been super fun to do the deepest dive that we could do on the nfc north i want you to tell me how you think it finishes this year because it's such a wonky situation with the bears

and the lions like what's what's your order i know you kind of hinted at you think the Vikings finish second. Packers, Vikings, and then I guess I'll go – I'm going to go Bears and then Lions. I'm going to go Bears because I think Mitch Trubisky is going to be back for their next game. They're on the bye this week. I think Mitch is going to be back, and he's going to be the starting quarterback. And I think the offense will be slightly better because –

Because he can run and move. Exactly. Nick Foles running was bad. Right. On Monday, I was like, I think I actually miss Mitch Trubisky. Like, what's going on? And I do think, like think when the offense is this bad and the offensive line is

that bad, having a quarterback that can run and create his own offense will help. I don't think they're going to be good still, but I see Mitch coming back and maybe winning a couple games. We'll see.

The funny thing is about the Bears' schedule is they haven't played hardly any division games yet. Like, they still have to play the Packers, yeah, like twice, I believe. So it's not easy coming up for them. I always think about the funniest, like, possible outcome. And the funniest for the Bears is that Trubisky comes back and gets hot and then all of a sudden turns them around and they win some games. They get some interceptions, some fumble luck,

some more kick returns for touchdown, and they end up with, I don't know, 10 wins. And ownership goes, Trubisky was the right decision. More wins for Trubisky than to show wins. Everyone stays. Right. Everyone stays. Great job.

Without drafting a quarterback. It semi-happened with the Vikings winning their playoff game in New Orleans last year, by the way. Just like ownership was sort of ready to change everything out, and then they won. They're like, oh, well, I guess you all can stay. Right, right, right. It's great. That's an off-season episode sometime for us. It's like, what if you owned an NFL team?

How would you do it? And the answer is, not like a lot of these people do. Yeah. So make sure that you follow Kaylin on Twitter. It is very important here, K-A-L-Y-N, K-A-H-L-E-R, Kaylin Kaylor on Twitter. And go back and find the Patricia article. It's a gem, as you usually put out, Kaylin. Great to catch up with you.

This was a fun one. Thanks so much.