Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are the Vikings trendy on offense? Will the NFL ever go back to run-first? (A Fans Only podcast)

Episode Date: July 12, 2022

Matthew Coller answers Minnesota Viking fan questions, from what it takes to set up a roster to recruit talent in the future, to whether the NFL will ever go back to a run-first league, to why the Vikings didn't make a better effort to get a better backup quarterback. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Coll Collar here and this is a fans-only podcast. We're going to have a lot of fans-only podcasts for two reasons. One, because it's July and I have guilt about asking people to come on my show as we are just weeks away from training camp. But we will have lots of previews, lots of guests. We'll start stacking them up and getting really all in on the NFL season as it is right around the corner. But also because I have so many good questions from people that if I get too backlogged, I will never get to these questions.

So I have to jump right in and get to all of the great things that you guys have sent me, whether it's on Twitter, purpleinsider.com, use the contact us in the top right corner. If you've gone to the website, you see my giant cutout slide in and then look to the right of my head. And then you'll be able to find the contact us where you can send an email and get your question on the show. And again, if I haven't mentioned your question, maybe I missed it. It's possible. Um, but there's a lot of episodes coming here with a lot of

questions. I'm a little bit backlogged at the moment, so be patient with me. Plus I also have the trouble of not being able to keep the answers under five minutes. I tried in the last episode and I think maybe the shortest one was like 10 minutes. So I will make my best efforts to run through them a little quicker, but also give you the best answer I can possibly give. So let's open the diet. Dr. P I am once again in my son porch, which means it's very hot. So I will be taking extended breaks to fuel myself with Dr pepper here we go okay let's get to friend of the show since you guys were asking about that before uh at writer churchill she is a friend of the show she says i've got a fans only questions for you right now i'm listening to the latest podcast where you're

talking with pff's anthony trash You were discussing Philly and how their recent moves might make them an attractive team for veterans to sign with next season. My question is this, out of all the considerations that teams take into account as they build their roster, and I recognize there are many, how common is this? How much conscious thought does a team put into making themselves look attractive for veterans that they might want to woo the next season or next off season? I'm sure it's not a large percentage, but is this a thing? So here's what I would say.

Number one is always every team is trying to get the most good players, period. Just stack up 22 starting positions. How can we have 22 really good players? And if that happens for you, if you have 22 players that are somewhere between good and great, or you can have say the Philadelphia Eagles Superbowl team that probably had, you know, 21 starters that were pretty good. And Nick Foles was the only not great one. And he still found a way to win the Super Bowl because their roster was so deep and so good in 2017. So you're always trying to achieve that because the more depth you have of good to great players, the better chance you have to win.

I think that sort of goes without saying. But every team is also working on a timeline, that's where this comes in the Philadelphia Eagles. So the timeline revolves around the quarterback just naturally where it's the most important position, where that person stands in their contract, how they're performing, what they need to succeed. Everything revolves around that. So if you're a rebuilding team in Seattle, you're going to play drew lock because he's not your quarterback long-term, but what you're hoping to do is to stack good players.

Well, drew lock is filling that position in hopes of then replacing it with somebody better. And that's what the Tampa Bay Buccaneers did with Tom Brady is they built their roster with Tom Brady over a number of years, high draft picks, tough seasons that they had. They drafted Vita Vea. They drafted Mike Evans. They hit on some corners. They drafted Antoine Winfield Jr. They just stacked up good players. And then Tom Brady came available. Now they didn't make their whole plan around Tom Brady specifically, but with Jameis Winston, his contract situation, they were very aware that in their timeline, in their window, they might be able to get a quarterback in there who could actually win something, whether it was Tom Brady or somebody else, they knew that Winston wasn't

good enough to actually win a Superbowl. And so they kept him on a contract that was not like, Oh, we're going to be restricted and we're going to be locked into him. And the same thing works with a rookie deal with Jalen hurts where he's on his rookie contract. And so he's going to be off of that deal fairly soon. He's really cheap right now. So if they needed to move on from him or bench him, it wouldn't be like they were hurting themselves. He's got right now, what you'd expect for an average backup quarterback for his contract. So that's not hurting them at all if they need to move on. So it's quarterback flexibility and they've taken a couple of years to draft high, to stack

up draft picks, to move players out, to get picks and to trade with other teams, to get additional picks. So they can be the team that's ready to then make the big move for AJ Brown. Okay. Now you've got another superstar wide receiver to go on with Devante Smith, who's a very good wide receiver. And it's all kind of coming together. And the NFL is this constant rise and fall of rosters where the Vikings in 2014, when Mike Zimmer takes them over, they've got the bones of something there, but it's not great. By 2017, the whole roster is great. And the Vikings were this team. The Vikings had a great roster and were able to have quarterback flexibility and brought in Kirk Cousins. Now it didn't work to get them where they wanted to go, but they were able to be that team once upon a time.

So I think that it's a very specific and kind of narrow thing, but it does happen somewhat often because it's so hard to find good quarterbacks that you have flexibility at that position right about the time where you've developed your roster, you've matured your roster to the point where you could actually win something. And, you know, the Los Angeles Rams were competitive for quite some time. So they're not like the perfect example, but they would be a good example of a team that had a mature roster and made the right decision at the right time to move on from their quarterback. They didn't have a lot of flexibility. They had to create that

by moving draft picks for Jared Goff, but they looked at their roster and said, we've got enough here to win. We just need that one more piece of quarterback. So many times it doesn't come to fruition that you actually win and we'll see what Denver, I mean, Denver could have drafted Justin Fields and made Justin Fields their franchise quarterback. And instead they went with Teddy Bridgewater drafted Patrick Sertain. And I did not agree with the move at the time. I'm not a% sure I still would go the way that they went, but they also looked around and said Aaron Rodgers might not be happy in Green Bay. Russell Wilson might not be happy.

So we should keep quarterback flexibility here because we're going to be the team that someone wants to join. The Miami Dolphins could be that team next year. If Tua doesn't play particularly well, they're the ones with the roster where the free agent quarterback wants to go, whoever that might be. At this moment, and maybe it's Derek Carr, I don't know that Ryan Tannehill would go back to Miami. Maybe he would. There's a few quarterbacks that could possibly be that person that ends up like a Phillip Rivers. And once again, Andrew Luck leaves,

they didn't replace Andrew Luck with a quarterback that was drafted or something like that, where then they would be locked into that guy. And Philip Rivers says, well, where's the best possible roster? And he found it. So it is intentional in a lot of ways. And it is a major consideration point as teams are building up their rosters is where they stand in that drafting and development, where they stand in the salary cap. And would they be attractive to some veteran quarterback that could accelerate their timeline as a franchise or take advantage of the narrow windows that they have? Because if Denver say doesn't win this year everybody gets

a year older and then you know things happen or people demand trades or what like we saw this in Minnesota it just it doesn't get any easier after you've had a really good roster and you win a lot of games then everybody wants to get paid and it's tougher so you have to take advantage it's one of the things that makes the league great, honestly, is that every team can look at their window and say, it's either now or never, or, Hey, we're two years away, or we've got the quarterback for the future, or we can attract the quarterback who can help us win because now there's going to be a lot of quarterbacks every year that come available.

So, I mean, think about this. If you're Philly though, so I mentioned Derek Carr, but like, what if Lamar Jackson, it just goes totally sideways in negotiations because Lamar has always dreamed of playing with Philadelphia. Like who knows, right? There you are just waiting. Hey, we've got the best roster. He's always dreamed of playing with AJ Brown or a great receiver, whatever it might be. Kyler Murray, same deal. Kyler refuses to sign a contract with Arizona. There you are waiting. And I think in the future, that's going to happen pretty often. Great question. Uh, let's go on to the next one after a little sip of diet, Dr. Pepper. Okay. All right all right uh another friend of the show folks it's shocking that these friends of the show keep showing up and asking these great questions uh rob

q t balt who i once interviewed actually rob for a story about vikings fans and this is just how weird of the last couple of years have been v Vikings fans who were tweeting Trevor Lawrence to the Vikings memes. I did a story about it when the Vikings were, I think, one in four that I asked a bunch of fans who had tweeted Trevor Lawrence in Vikings gear memes. Like, do you want them to tank? And I think the answer was basically most people did not really want them to tank. But if it happens, then Trevor Lawrence is their guy. So shout out to Rob.

He was great in interviewing him for that story. Okay. He says, with all the talk of Sean Mannion being a, quote, cousin's guy, like an assistant QB coach in the quarterback room, why not make him an assistant coach and go find a true, more effective backup? If ownership thinks this is going to be a competitive year and Cousins goes down due to injury, I believe the team is underserved by Mannion.

Yes, Cousins has been very fortunate and durable and has not missed games due to injury, but it's a matter of probability and time. With a GM who's into analytics, I think he's got to statistically be aware of the dice PS keep Kellen Mond for another year and see what happens with his development. Well, I totally agree with keeping Kellen Mond, even though I've said, look, if Kellen Mond plays, you're probably having your season go all the way down. Um, you know, there's no reason to get rid of him at this point. He's just a cheap player on your roster. So the reason that the Minnesota Vikings don't have a better backup quarterback is the same reason that I don't own a castle. Okay. I own a, a nice little home

in a nice area and a nice neighborhood. I'm very happy with it, but it is not a castle because of why? Because of money. That is why, that is why I don't own that castle. And if I go to look at the salaries and salary cap hits of backup quarterbacks in the league, one of the things you notice is that first of all, there's like two good ones, maybe three, and they all cost money. Teddy Bridgewater, I think is the best backup quarterback in the league. He's somebody that if he had to start for a large portion of your season could go 500 as he's proven. And he costs $6.5 million. Jacoby Brissett, who very well may be the starter for the Cleveland Browns this year,

4.65 million. Mitch Trubisky has a cap hit of 3.6. Taylor Heineke has a cap hit of 3.6. Mariota, who's more of a backup quarterback, 4.2. Even Geno Smith, Joe Flacco, friends. Folks, Joe Flacco is making over $3 million. Andy Dalton, the backup quarterback of who wants to play this game, who at home wants to tell me where Andy, I'm going to pause.

I'm just going to wait. I'm going to take a sip and I want you to think wherever you are in your car or in your house. If you're like watching TV and half listening, I'm going to pause and you think where Andy Dalton is. Nobody knew this. Nobody got it. It's New Orleans.

He's a New Orleans Saint. You know how much money he makes? 3 million bucks. Tyrod Taylor over 2.7. Nick Foles 2.6. And now we're getting to the point where these guys cannot play. Now, maybe the Vikings made a mistake by not trading for Gardner Minshew. I think they should have.

I believe it was a sixth round pick. They should have acquired Gardner Minshew as their backup quarterback last year. Maybe they win in Green Bay. Probably not. But at least it would have given them something. He still costs 2.5. I am still scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. And now I get to Sean Mannion, our good friend, Sean Mannion. He makes

$1.038,529, $1 million for Sean Mannion as your backup quarterback. And that is why he is your backup quarterback. The other $1 million backup quarterbacks include Kevin Hogan, Jeff Driscoll, Cooper Rush, a winner, I guess, uh, Will Greer, Josh Johnson, Ian book, Brett Rippin, Jared Stidham. Which one of these guys would you like Matt Barkley, Josh Dobbs, John Wolford, who wants these quarterbacks? I mean, the point is that when you run everything up to the very edge of the salary cap, you don't get Jacoby Brissett. You don't get Teddy Bridgewater because they won't sign with you because you have no money. I mean, that's what you're looking for.

Even if the Vikings were spending $3 million on a backup, think about the contracts they signed this offseason. They had to add void years to Patrick Peterson to get him under the cap. They paid him, I think $4 million this year. That's how much they've been running it to the very edge. You're just not able to do that. And then when you get to this point and you look at the salary cap and you go, okay, well, they've got a little bit of space left. Well, everybody already got their backup quarterbacks by now. So everyone's already signed. And then you're kind of holding out for the possibility that in Indomitian Sue might sign for $2 million. So you can't spend that on a backup quarterback.

Plus Kellen Mond is a rookie quarterback, uh, is getting over a million dollars as a third round draft pick. So now you're already spending, you know, a couple million on that spot because you drafted one and you can't get rid of him. So that's why Sean Mannion is still here. Uh, the reason why Sean Mannion would not take an assistant coaching job is because Sean Mannion is going to make a million dollars. Do you know what an assistant quarterback coach makes? It's not a million dollars. I don't know what an offensive coordinator makes, but I'm sure anything below OC or DC is not making $1 million to coach in the NFL.

I saw what the twins pitching coach was making like 400 K. So think of it like that for a good assistant, maybe a DBs coach. You go down from there. You ask this guy to be assistant quarterbacks coach. You're paying him probably not even six figures. Yeah. He's not taking that. Not when an NFL team's going to give him a mill. And the thing about Sean Mannion is he's not a coach so much as he is a couple of things. One, he understands the offense and he has an NFL arm. He is also a third round pick, by the way. We act like Kellen Mond must be way more talented.

The NFL evaluated both guys as the same round. So that just kind of tells you a little bit about these two players. And when you watch in practice, Sean Mannion is able to give the players on the second team very effective practice reps, which you may roll your eyes at and say, how is that worth a million dollars if he can't win a game? Well, I do think he could win a game if it wasn't against the Green Bay Packers. I think he could win a game if it was against the Detroit Lions.

But this is why they keep him. Because if they have to put him in the game, if Kirk C Kirk cousins gets hurt, let's say, let's just say this, you're playing the lions. They haven't been biting at your ankles. You're up by two touchdowns and Kirk cousins turns an ankle. All right, Sean, get out there. He's not going to throw two pick sixes and just lose the game. He's going to be able to keep the train on the tracks and win that football game. That's really all you can ask unless you've got money. And even if you do have money, the guy's probably going to be a 500 quarterback.

So that's why Sean Mannion is here. Are you right that they could use someone better? Of course. But how is that more valuable than a cornerback or some other position or a guard that you can sign? It's just not, I mean, most teams, the season is over. If you play your backup regardless for more than a game or two, Gino Smith's a great backup quarterback. Seattle season was over the minute he had to play and they're paying him three and a half million.

So the backup quarterback thing, as you could tell, I kind of, I get, I get a little flustered by it because it's just like, this is not something we should really be talking about. I mean, because that's the case for pretty much every team in the entire NFL outside of two or three that you are just going down. And so, so people hammer on Sean Mannion as if they're like super offended that Sean Mannion is on this team when he is a fine backup in comparison to his peers. It's just, that's the state of how hard it is to be a great quarterback. Like that's just the reality of the league. It always has been.

Um, so there, so there you go. I hope that helps. I hope that giant rant helps, but like, that's the backup quarterback situation. That's life. Folks want to remind you to go to soda stick.com. That is S O T A S T I C K.com. Use the promo code purple insider for 15% off your purchase. It is summertime.

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Let's see. We're in a past focused athletic league. How long until the NFL flips to a heavy set run tight end based offense and strong defense Zimmer style league that is the opposite of how things have been going. In other words, when does the league flip? Uh, well, I would,

I think that some teams in the last couple of years have already done this and had success. And that includes the Minnesota Vikings. They played multiple tight ends and created mismatches and put together one top 10 offense in 2019. And doing so, I think that as great as Delvin cook was that year. And as good as Kevin Stefanski was, you had the combination of those things along with an offense that defenses did not know how to prepare for. You're running a lot of play actions and bootlegs, and you're putting the other team in a difficult position where they've got to throw

out another linebacker that they don't have on their roster and is not any good. Or you're just steamrolling cornerbacks like they did against Green Bay in 2020. They're just steamrolling them because they don't have enough linebackers out there. So we have seen this also. I mean, how about like Patrick Ricard for, um, is that his name for, uh, Baltimore, the fullback? He's like 300 pounds. I mean, Baltimore has been playing a total run first bully ball type of let's throw a bunch of giant human beings in there and run power, even with our quarterback type of offense.

And then I would point to San Francisco as well, where it's George Kittle is the leader. Kyle Juszczyk is their fullback who's on the field at all times. Most of the rest of the league is playing the three wide receiver stuff, but those teams that sort of dared to be different or had the personnel to be different were often rewarded. Um, but I also think that there's just not enough tight ends in the world. There's not enough 240 pound linebackers in the world. Um, you know, that you could beat up on, I guess like defenses figure these things out eventually too, but there's just not enough of those types of players. There's not enough good tight ends in the league. Like how many good tight ends exist in the entire NFL? Is it six?

And if you have one of those guys, it's fantastic. That's why everyone's so high on Irv Smith jr, but you have like six good tight ends. Who's putting two of them on the field. And as far as the other part of it you know, I think that running is so much less efficient, even when done well, that you have to do it unbelievably well to make it better than passing the rules, the players, the wide receiver caliber, the quarterback caliber, the athleticism of the quarterbacks. It's just going to be a more efficient way of going about things of passing the ball. Even if there's something to be said for still running it. Like I cannot sit here and trash what Indianapolis did as an offense last year, running Jonathan Taylor all the time.

They had great blocking and he was marvelous. So yeah, run that guy, but they missed the playoffs. They had a running back who was so good that people were talking about, hey, maybe Jonathan Taylor should be the MVP. And they missed the playoffs because their quarterback wasn't good enough. That's the league. Everybody else is throwing so effectively and putting up such big totals of yards and points that you're just never going back. I don't think we're ever going back.

I do think it's a good idea to have kept CJ ham. So the Vikings can continue to try to create some of those mismatches while not really having much of a true number two tight end, but the league is just never returning to what it used to be with the big fullbacks and the eye formations. I mean, I was watching on NFL network the other day, the 99 Superbowl with Denver and green Bay. And it's just, it just blows your mind that a team had Brett Favre and they're out there running split back formations with Dorsey Levens and William Henderson and throwing like check downs to Mark

Shimura. Like guys, open it up, open it up. Like they're playing this West coast offense that was a lot of short passing. And then Favre would just let loose from time to time. Imagine if he was playing in today's offenses and you kind of saw a glimpse of that as the league changed toward oh nine. And then he had his best ever statistical season in terms of quarterback rating. The league has changed so much that, Hey, if you got those guys as an offensive personnel, that is a heck of a weapon for you. But I don't think you can just ride that unless you have someone like Lamar Jackson, who's going to be able to run for a thousand yards. Okay. Next question. This is from Adam via the email he says love the pod man have a fans only question or rather a request rank the top five rivals of the minnesota vikings here's how my

shakes out packers saints seahawks and he says i think this rivalry began in the bad blood over the hutchinson signing well that's throwing it back a little bit there. Bears and Rams. Those are your top five rivals of the Minnesota Vikings. All right. Well, number one is not difficult at all. It's the Green Bay Packers. And, uh, there, you know, there may be some people in Green Bay who would say that both sides have to equally be competitive for a rivalry, but the Vikings have spoiled some recent games against a green Bay. So that will always in forever though, seriously be one of the great rivalries in the NFL. And I was talking to someone not too long ago from Chicago who said, why do people talk about the bears and the Packers only based on history, but recent history, like last 30 years,

it's the Vikings and the Packers, which I totally agree with. Now, after that, I think the saints is, is clearly the number two because of the Minneapolis miracle. And then the playoff game, uh, Sean Payton doing the skull clap, things like that. That's just two really good teams, two coaches who knew each other. Maybe it dies a little bit with Zimmer. They also don't play each other this year. Like when you don't play a team every year, it's a little harder to have this intense rivalry. But Zimmer, Sean Payton, that was a rivalry based on both of them coming from the same Parcells tree. Now, this is where it does get hard. I don't think that the Seattle Seahawks are really a rival of the Vikings.

They played a lot in the last few years and they had some close games, but I don't remember ever feeling like, whoa, okay, man. I mean, Zimmer and Pete Carroll, they're like at each other's throats here or these Vikings and these Seahawks, like they were interesting games sometimes. And the one came down to the very last second where Russell Wilson led that long drive where the Vikings didn't get the first down, uh, with Zimmer going for it on fourth down the other games though. I don't remember being exactly all the way down to the wire. Yeah. Okay.

There was one where Kirk cousins had a final drive through short of the sticks to Irv Smith. So there's been some compelling games. I don't know that I would go that this is one of the better rivalries that they have. I think it just is the case that they've played each other a lot, especially since last year was so lackluster. Seattle just played super poorly in the second half of that game. And again, not a whole lot of intensity there, but then you're asking, all right, then who, well, Philadelphia for recent because of 2017, but also the Vikings won two games against them. And in the 2017 game, there was the whole thing about

the fans throwing full beer bottles, which I saw right next to some cops who did nothing. But, you know, I guess that's an Eagles. If they arrested everybody who threw a beer bottle, I guess you wouldn't have fans in the stands in Philadelphia. But Philly is definitely one, because then the next two games, the Vikings won, they went there, Linval Joseph got the interception and, you know, Kirk beat the Eagles. And it was kind of one of those, Hey, maybe this is different kind of games. And then Philadelphia came to Minnesota. Stefan Diggs had a crazy game against the Eagles. And even though they didn't play last year, they're going to play again this year there might

be some intensity there now it's not Doug Peterson it's not Mike Zimmer so they've got a chance to sort of forge their own rivalries with Kevin O'Connell but I guess I would probably go number three would be the Philadelphia Eagles the Chicago Bears are definitely next or if not ahead of the Eagles because the Bears have just been such a thorn in their side. I mean, eliminating them essentially from the playoffs a couple of years in a row. And even though in recent years they've won at soldier field, their long record at soldier field is such a disaster that that's a rivalry for them. So, you know, maybe I would go Packers, Saints, Bears, Eagles. And the next one, I don't know.

There were good games between the Rams and the Vikings, the one on Thursday night, the one in 2017, where Zimmer's defense shut down Jared Goff. Is there a rivalry there? Maybe closer with San Francisco, but I don't know. I mean, there's no rivalry with Detroit. They've got to earn that. Like I'm trying to think like, who would it be? And there's no real AFC team that would be a vicious rival with the Vikings because you just don't see them enough. Washington, the Kirk cousins connection doesn't really do it for me here.

Uh, the last time they played was kind of a pointless game on what was that Thursday night, or maybe Dallas, they played Dallas a lot and there's been some really close games with Dallas. I think I would probably leave that number five spot open, but, um, yeah, I'd probably have Dallas in that position, but you have to earn these intense rivalries. And in the last couple of years, they have not exactly really done that. Um, so that's kind of my list. Thanks very much, Adam, for that question. Let me get a sip. All right. This comes from at ad plus verb. Hey Matthew, here's another fans only question. If the Vikings do somehow end up having a great season, is there a way that this happens without

vindicating Rick Spielman? I can't imagine them having a good season without some 2021 draft pick breakouts. That's a good question. I'm going to say that there is absolutely a scenario where they do not vindicate Rick Spielman. It's that the defense is a lot better because of the moves that they made this off season and the draft picks that they made and the players that they signed. Like if we go through and compare last year to this year, the defense is way different. I mean, you have Harrison Phillips, Zedarius Smith, Jordan Hicks, Louis Scene, Andrew Booth Jr. Like that's a big part of the defense that is very different

than it was with Rick Spielman building it. And with Rick Spielman building it in 2020 and 2021, it was a complete mess. And you can say what you want about Mike Zimmer, but I don't think between 2019 and 2020, the man forgot how to defense. It was the roster. They couldn't cover anyone. And so Rick Spielman's out here drafting first round centers and busting on cornerback draft picks and, you know, not, maybe I should let it go, but like not picking Antoine Winfield Jr draft picks and, you know, not, maybe I should let it go, but like not picking Antoine Winfield Jr. and like, you know, things like that.

Those misses on those draft picks have left a giant hole that is being filled this offseason by Lewis Seen being drafted, by Andrew Booth Jr., Caleb Evans, all those guys being rebuilt. And if this team is a lot better the defense had to be a lot better um because the offense i mean it it certainly can improve but having it go from 14th to like third would be so shocking uh if they were able to do that so i don't think that you exactly have to justify rick sp. The other thing is too, that some moves like draft picks bust that happens. And you know, yes, you can hold it against somebody when it was sort of a clear, Hey, maybe you should just draft Antoine Winfield jr. Because he's excellent. And everyone's

seen him play every game and thinks you should pick them a little galaxy brain there, but okay. All right. I mean, there were odds that the player that they picked in that position would have been very good. Same for Mike Hughes. Everyone had him as a first round pick. It's not like they picked some complete rando. They picked a player who everyone thought this guy should go around the place where you picked him, uh, under Rick Spielman. But if the offense is just good and the same problems persist, the offensive line that was never rebuilt, uh, if Garrett Bradbury still struggles, that's a first round pick the moves that they made on the edges, like wasted seasons also,

and could have got the rebuild going faster. So you could have been even better like trading a fourth round pick for Chris Herndon was just not good at any level in any world. And there weren't the right types of rebuild moves made after 2019 and into 2020 that we talked about timelines to start the show. If your idea was after 2019, Welp, we're going to have to rebuild this thing

and you don't trade for Yannick Ngakwe, that's a second round pick, by the way, if you don't make a panicked move there, if you don't make a panicked move to give a franchise tag to Anthony Harris, things like that, that short-term mentality that they had, then maybe at this point,

we're talking about one heck of a roster that's been rebuilt with a lot of higher draft picks, uh, that's been built with more cap space because they took a long-term vision as opposed to they were forced to lose a lot of players because of the salary cap and then try to tape and glue it all together with like Michael Pierce. I'll never get it out of my head. The Rick Spielman said the reason they extended cousins in 2020 was so they could afford Michael Pierce. I don't know how to justify that. So it will be in spite of him in a lot of ways and not justifying him. If they have a great season, that's,

that's how I look at that one. I, you know, I think it will have to be in this group, rebuilding the secondary much smarter and, uh, not making those, those blunders like trading for Yanni Gengakwe in the last minute. Uh, all right. This one comes from Peter via the email still enjoying my daily Vikings podcast. So thanks that you and the guys have the show each week, um, every day, my friend. Uh, so fans only question for you. Why? I mean, Hey, I know some podcasts decide to stop talking in the summertime and I don't blame anybody for that. You know, maybe I could, I could be doing anything right now. I could be sunning myself and looking gorgeous for training camp, but instead I'm here talking about football. No, because I, I like it. I mean, I think that it gives us space to have so many fun conversations in the summertime about stuff that we just get to talk about that we're not talking about when it's Vikings Packers week one, then it's all in on that game. So for now we have fun anyway. Sorry, back to the actual question. Uh, let's see about your favorite subject, namely our quarterback on this side of the pond. I assume you're from England or somewhere that's

not America. Uh, players are not judged as much on statistics in the same way as they are in the U.S. Here, it's very much based on what we see as fans and perceptions from those performances. So using that same rule, I look at Kirk and the question comes to mind, does he inspire fans and teammates that he can guide the team to pull out the win when it really matters? Every time I come up with the answer is no. And am I being unduly harsh on the guy when I look at the likes of Josh Allen, Aaron Rodgers, even Dak Prescott, who do have the hint of leadership about him?

No, I don't think you're being unduly harsh. So something that I've talked about a little bit on the show, and it's always like mid rant. So let me expand on it a little bit. There are times where I've talked about a little bit on the show, and it's always like mid-rant, so let me expand on it a little bit. There are times where I've said, look, you don't really need statistics for this analysis of Kirk Cousins at this point in the game. Every one of us who's watching the Vikings, or covering them in my case, has watched all of it transpire. They watched when he first got here with hopeful eyes that it would be the guy who brought them to the Superbowl.

They watched them go eight, seven, and one. They watched them go to the playoffs and actually get a win in the playoffs, but then completely no show and throw for like 160 yards the next week when San Francisco actually had a defense. They saw a 2020 team start out with very, very poor performances from the quarterback that got them behind the eight ball to miss the playoffs. And they watched as last year, they also started slowly despite some of his best play, but then down the stretch when they really needed it, the Vikings couldn't get the play that they needed from Kirk cousins to get into the playoffs. Now we have to do the obligatory. It's not all his fault, but if you look at a lot of different statistics, I think you can find the answer here to why it is. And I like to do that. I like to know all of the numbers, but if you knew no numbers and you just sat down and decided, I am going to watch all of these

games and never look at a single statistic, what would you come away with? You would come away with a lot of very, very good throws and a lot of humongous games from Kirk cousins, but just as many on the other side where you walk away stunned that there wasn't more there stunned that there wasn't more fight surprised that you didn't see the same reactions from teammates to their quarterback that you see with lots of other quarterbacks, you would see pretty much nobody coming out demanding that they extend the quarterback. I remember when Ryan Fitzpatrick was going to be a free agent with the New York Jets and they had missed the playoffs the season before players, including like Brandon Marshall, we're saying, I need Fitzpatrick to return. You have to bring

back Ryan Fitzpatrick because they loved them and he was gutsy and everything else. It turned out to be a mistake when they brought him back. But the point is that if teammates want you back and desperately need you as their quarterback, they'll make it known. And at the Superbowl, when Justin Jefferson was asked about cousins and the possibility of a trade, he said like, yeah, he's, he's my quarterback and I love them and all that. But you know, if they make a trade, they make a trade, which is like, yeah, right. That's kind of how everything is with Kirk cousins. It's like every fan feels that way where you're just sort of, all right, well, there's going to be some great games and there's going to be some struggles and there's really no way around it. And one of the reasons is

because he doesn't have an extra gear, even in his personality to pull things out of people that they didn't think were possible, which I think is the true leadership elements, which is if you can get players around you to perform better than they thought they could, you're probably a great leader. And that's not that, you know, he's got good wide receivers and good receiver numbers. So I'm not saying he hasn't helped his receivers, but as a whole, as the team, when they've started to run into tough times and they've gone down, they sort of stayed down and they've let seasons drift away from them because they haven't been able to pull out of it. And yeah, I think it's

fair to look at leadership. It also could be that it's all circumstance and it's all cap space and it's all everything else. But I mean, I've just covered football for far too long to think that the Pittsburgh Steelers could have the worst statistical quarterback in the league last year and Ben Roethlisberger and grind their way to the playoff somehow. And the Vikings have had one of the best statistical quarterbacks and can't make it two years in a row. Like, why is that? Is that all Mike Zimmer's fault? Probably not. Right. Um, so I think that in this case, it's much more than perception. It's actually data, by the way, I would look at it as data. So, um, anecdotal data is data, right?

So if you had a hundred Vikings fans describe their feelings, watching Kirk cousins, and then you made a word cloud of everything they said, and you circled the most, the biggest words, what would you see? the most, the biggest words, what would you see? Would you see the same things you see from Josh Allen? Would you see the same things you would see if someone was asked to describe Peyton Manning or John Elway or like, no. Right. I mean, I don't think that this really takes any type of real analysis aside from like, you've all seen it. And unless it's different this year, like this thing probably can't continue because the answer will be that you're not going to go anywhere with

him. Um, so it's a really interesting question about perceptions versus numbers, but I lean toward fans and reporters of a team that watch every single play are going to tell you the truth much better than stats. And I'll give you a good example of that. When I was in Buffalo, a reporter came out and wrote about how Tyrod Taylor's stats said he was great. But how nobody believed in him and it was sort of unfair. Because all the stats said he was really good. And I watched every Tyrod Taylor game in 2014 and 2015, or it must be 2014. Cause Kyle Orton was the quarterback for the bills, 2014. So every game of 2015. And I remember getting

into the end of that year and saying, my friends in Buffalo, you're not going to win with this quarterback. You just can't like, look at them. Like you just not, it's not going to work. And yet somebody from the outside who had, I doubt watched a whole lot of actual games, wrote a big piece about how great Tyra Taylor was. And we're all silly gooses for not seeing it's like two years later, they're drafting somebody else who takes them to the AFC championship because of course that's what happened. Like, of course, Tyron Taylor was a backup because that's what he always was. Everyone who watched him play had better data from just their own experience than you had for numbers.

Numbers are a guidepost. They're not all the answers. And if you use numbers as all the answers, you're going to be wrong all the time. There are answers. I mean, baseball is maybe the only exception to this because it's so static. But even then, like there's a lot like watching a player will tell you a lot. But in football, football, hockey is the same way. Oh, this guy's got good puck possession numbers or expected goals.

Like, right. But competition, who he played against, when he played, how he was used, all those things that you would see watching on a daily basis. When I used to cover hockey, I would get this all the time. Why is it this third pair defense been playing more? He's got good puck possession numbers. Like, cause he's playing on the third pair against a bunch of nobodies. That's why.

So, um, yeah, you guys have sparked some rants out of me here today, but I think like, that's, that's something that like, give yourself credit for, you know, football, right? Like you watch it, you listen to this show, you must know football. What do you, what do you think? Like, what do you feel about it? What do you say? And I know that everybody, um, unequivocally all Vikings fans want Kirk Cousins to succeed this next season. But I, uh, think that circumstances do change, schedules change, opportunities arise, and we've seen the peak of Cousins can win enough games to get to the playoffs, can win a playoff game. So I'm not saying that he doesn't have the leadership to ever win a game.

He certainly is a good enough football player to do it and to put up, you know, some really, really great games and even some really big games for them at times. But to do it over the long haul of the season and to guide a team, to be that person who puts everybody on their back. Like it's just not who he is. And I think that was really at the center of Mike Zimmer's frustration with him. So good question. Lots of fun. Okay. Uh, one more, one more and one more sip of diet, Dr. Trevor. All right. Okay. This comes from uh matthew via the email shout out to another matthew only a couple of us roaming the earth let's see uh is the vikings offense more likely to start slow while they figure things out or start fast while the league tries to figure out how o'connell

and these players institute mVay's offense. So football players are just really smart these days. Because if you're not, you play in the USFL. It's the reality. When it comes to football, they've all seen so many things by the time they get to the NFL. Now it's different for college quarterbacks becoming NFL quarterbacks, but for a team full of a lot of veteran players, all these offensive players have been in the league before. I don't think they're running out one rookie on the starting lineup at this moment, as

we speak, unless, um, you know, the right guard position goes a different way than we expect. All these players understand all these concepts at this point. And I don't think that there's anything that Kevin O'Connell is going to do. That would be so shocking to Justin Jefferson, who's had two different offensive coordinators, Adam Thielen, who's had one different one every year in the NFL since he's, uh, since he's been a starter and a really good player, Delvin cook, different offensive coordinator, Kirk cousins all the time has changed situations.

And even if you go back to 2018 with John DeFilippo, that was a very different offense from what Kirk had run in Washington. And yet they actually started out that season with Kirk putting up very good numbers. So I don't think that teams start slow or fast. Here's what I would lean toward is schedule circumstance. Green Bay has a good defense, but you get to play at home. Philly might have a good defense. They're going to have to prove that to me because last year they didn't have a great defense. So if you go to Philly and their defense isn't that great, and it's not one of those defenses

that matches up super well with the Vikings, then well, you've got a chance to start out hot. I mean, that's really what it comes down to in the NFL, I think, and just how well it fits. So maybe it's less that they're having trouble learning it. Defense might be a little tougher, less that they're having trouble learning it and more of whether it actually works. And that will play out throughout a full season. As we've seen from Cliff Kingsbury, you could start out a season great, but if you don't adapt as the season goes whether it actually works and that will play out throughout a full season. As we've seen from cliff Kingsbury, you could start out a season great, but if you don't adapt as the season goes along, uh, you don't have a great offense. So it's a long season and there's a lot to be done there with an offense. So we can't really judge it right off the bat. Cause I remember saying,

and I'll never make this mistake again. When the Vikings played week two against the packers in 2018 and kirk really was marvelous in that game i remember saying well how crazy is this folks that they went from pat schirmer who was great to john d filippo who's great with the office of coordinating well we see how that ended up working out he got fired so i'm always going to give it to the second half of the season before we really judge but i don't think that will result in a slow start. Plus you have so much time to game plan that first game, those first couple of games, you have so much time to prepare for that. That's the reason we always hear those stats. Oh boy, friends, the league is on pace to break whatever records. And then it always slows

down as the defenses adjust. So I don't think I would expect that, um, because it's a new offense. All right. I've got plenty of more questions to get to. My file is full, but I will do so at a later date on another show. Um, this has been a great one. And, uh, you know, look, here's, here's the true sign. Here's the true sign that your football a, that you're still here. It's 48 minutes. You're still here. Uh, but B that we can be this intense in July about football early July. That's how, you know, that's how, you know, it's real anyway. Thanks so much, everybody. Uh, another great time. Really appreciate all the questions and we'll talk to you soon.