Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are Vikings fans lacking a hot draft take?

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Matthew Coller and Paul Hodowanic talk about why there isn't more buzz around the draft among Vikings fans. Is it because there are so many options that would all make sense? Or because there isn't a clear cut draft debate? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, welcome to another Purple Insider podcast. Matthew Collar here, along with Paul Hodowanek of WCCO Radio fame and also Purple Insider fame. What's going on, Paul? Matt, I do have to say I have gotten more, hey, I heard you on WCCO Radio than on the Purple Insider pod. So I think, I don't know, maybe I'm outgrowing the podcast. I don't know. I'm getting too big for my britches. I don't know what's happening here. Hey, who says no one listens to AM radio anymore, right? Well, well, it probably should be noted that the people that have come up to me are like my 65 year old uncle and my, my grandma who listened. So I don't, you know,

and just the one or two emails that I've gotten and stuff. So I, I don't necessarily think I'm hitting the same demographic. Okay. Yeah. Well, I think, uh, we're kind of all over the map. I hear from all sorts of people, uh, from all sorts of different demographics, age groups there. You wouldn't necessarily think that people would be into podcasts, uh, young people, people who are in college, things like that. Um, all, All genders, which are welcome, of course, here listening to the show and talking football, which is great. So a little bit of my mom. My mom thinks the podcast is the like 15 minute YouTube clips that we'll put out with me in it, like the hot routes that we were doing. She thought that was the podcast. So,

you know, it's it's it's still a it's a back and forth there. Well, I'm glad to have you and all of you who are listening for many different demographics. So, Paul, I got a few things that I want to talk about here. But I think we should start with Dwayne Haskins passing away at the age of 24, tragically, and some of the reaction to that because I was really disturbed a bit by some of the things that I saw from people who are professionals in the industry. And I know that not everybody is on Twitter 24 seven. So you don't see some of these things, but when Adam Schefter broke the news, he tweeted more or less Dwayne Haskins, who was a bust first round draft pick, died today. And then Gil Brandt, who is legendary in the NFL, but is also 90 years old and maybe has some carryover beliefs that he should have left behind a long time ago, said some very inappropriate things about Dwayne Haskins, especially since we didn't have any details and still really don't about what happened.

So first, I mean, it's just an unbelievable tragedy. especially since we didn't have any details and still really don't about what happened. So first, I mean, it's just an unbelievable tragedy. And somebody with Haskins that you kind of wondered if he got it together a bit, if that he would ever become a starter again, because we've seen this in the past where someone right off the bat struggles and then eventually they get another chance down the road. And I did think when he first came into the league, he showed some talent. where someone right off the bat struggles and then eventually they get another chance down the road. And I did think when he first came into the league, he showed some talent. So to have him pass away this way is just so horrible for the Steelers organization, for him, his family. And by the way, to Adam Schefter, playing Ohio State quarterback and throwing 50 touchdowns is not something everybody just does like we need to

respect that just because it didn't work out in the nfl right away and again he was 24 doesn't mean that you should be known for your entire life is just a big bust like that's brutal and but where it really hit me was in the sort of lack of humanity of this, as if the first comment is about his football career. And his second comment is about what happened to him as a person. And from a reporter perspective, I think this is where being in locker rooms is really important. And we're thankful to be able to go back into locker rooms now because you get to know players as people. And even though the game is the game. So when someone is struggling, if Dwayne Haskins, if you're covering him is struggling, you have to write it. It's just the reality. Garrett Bradbury, for example, like he is known

as a really good guy and is a likable person is great to speak with a great to interview, but he struggled in past protection and that's the job. And sometimes that causes some conflicts, but I think respecting someone as a person and always separating that, not making it personal when you're talking about somebody and how they're playing versus who they are is a really important thing to do that. It's easy to lose perspective on that, I guess, for some people. And I think it's really important. We always remember as these football players go through things that it's okay to say someone

didn't play the way that you thought they were going to play. And it's okay to say someone wasn't a successful draft pick, but when they die in tragic fashion who cares right like that is not the lead it's not the headline it's incredibly like callous and totally inappropriate and it just makes you wonder if certain people in this industry get so separated from the actual people who are playing the game that they don't see them as human anymore. And that is something that I guess I was just reminded, like always remember that every one of these people who we criticize sometimes they all have families and lives and things like that. They are people outside of football and you need to respect that. And I guess I just, it's like a reminder to me in this incalculable tragedy to always keep that

in mind as we're covering football players. Yeah. For me, it was, it was kind of a self-realization for me because Dwayne Haskins is like a year older than I am. And so just to then see the comments and kind of the, the dispersions that are cast on him immediately following that, like I have I have I don't know what's going on in the world.

Like I have nothing figured out. And these players, when they get drafted, they get thrown into such a spotlight and so much gets expected of them at such a young age, like my age. And I can't imagine getting that sort of pressure getting put on me. And it's, you know, it's a necessary beast of when you're really good at football and you're making millions of dollars. Like you, you kind of take on some of that, but Dwayne Haskins didn't deserve some of like what came at him, um, in the past day. And it's a tragedy. It kind of made me self-reflect on like, yeah, I could have like someone my age could be entering the NFL right now. And like, how do, how would I approach that? And like their situation, because yeah, I was right around the same age as Dwayne Haskins. And so, yeah, for it to you, for,

you have to like go to like the third line of Adam Schefter's tweet before you can even figure out what it's about. Like you could have stopped halfway through that tweet and not known what happened, like journalism one-on-one, like get the, get the, get the like important fact out of the way, like right away. Like it shouldn't have been just like put in between some commas, a bunch of, between a bunch of other garbage that didn't need to be there. Like, you know, it was disappointing to see from that aspect. And again, yeah, it was a good kind of reflection point for me

on how to talk about these athletes and and stuff because they are so young and they it's it's we cast dispersions on people really really quickly in the nfl right uh and so i guess it's a reminder to to fans also to see it that way and think a little bit before you send an athlete a tweet uh when you're frustrated that they didn't help your fantasy football team win, like things like that. And I remember Adam Silver saying something, the commissioner of the NBA, that he felt like a lot of NBA stars were just unhappy generally. And a lot of them felt like they were constantly being criticized. And I think a lot of that is social media and just how they're treated that someone like Kevin Durant has always had a chip

on his shoulder and has always acted like the world is out to get him. He is the most popular and successful and one of the best basketball players of all time and almost universally loved. But the small amount of people who have this or that or whatever to say makes him feel like a lot more people are attacking him. And I guess that's another thing to keep in mind too, when you do that, that that's, you know, you're, you're making and look, you can always say they make millions of dollars or whatever, but it's just something to keep in mind that it's a, like you said, it's a 24 year old person that you're talking about. So you have to do it with tact, I guess.

And that is not something that Adam Schefter has done a whole lot of recently. And it's become it's become a legitimate story is like Adam Schefter over the last six months or so or a year, the way he handled the Delvin Cook report was completely unacceptable. Just taking Delvin's agent's side from the very start and tweeting out a story that was legitimately not true. Like what he said about what happened with Delvin Cook and his former girlfriend was not the facts of the story. Schefter's report made it sound like it was a stranger breaking into his house and holding him hostage. And that was not the case. Now, there are other details that will decide how that goes that we don't know.

But what he tweeted initially was at the word of the agent and was completely inaccurate. And then he tweeted things about Deshaun Watson that were also inaccurate and made it sound like all of Watson's accusers had been proven to be liars, which is also not the case and not how the legal system works. And then it comes out that Adam Schefter is making $9 million a year in his new contract. And I guess we go like, I guess some people are untouchable, but even as you follow sports media, the just keep this in mind, I guess, that there are some people who are reporting on this league who are so controlled by other people, by agents, by teams, that you're not sure if what you're getting is really reality. But this was different. I mean, this was a tragedy that he's reporting on and just doing it in the same fashion that he would

be doing it for some transaction. This was not a transaction. This was a young person who was still in the NFL, by the way. It's not like he was working out with his teammates in Florida. It wasn't like Dwayne Haskins had been Ryan Lee for Jamarcus Russell and he was just out of the league because he had messed up his life that wasn't the case he was just a backup quarterback as opposed to a starter and some people including Gil Brandt made it sound like he was uh you know something completely different than what was going on so uh just a really really sad and unfortunate day I don't want to spend the whole pod on it but but really crushing to to see that so all right well, let's just take a deep breath and change gears here a little bit. And I want to ask you a question that does seem inappropriate after our

conversation just there, but is it just me or is there not anywhere near the interest in this draft for the Vikings perspective that there has been in recent years. Would you, would you agree with that from the people that you follow and the fans that you see and things like that, that the conversations over, should it be a corner? Should it be a guard? Should it be a defensive end? It just doesn't seem to have the same pop. And I guess I'm wondering why that is. I think it's because, you know,

there was a chance that there was a major overhaul coming and that there was a quarterback that could potentially get drafted by the Vikings. I think what's different is maybe we had some higher expectations or some different expectations about what the draft would yield in the first year of a new general manager, first year of a new head coach. You're thinking, oh, things are going to change. And instead, there's kind of targeting the same positions that the old regime targeted, going about the team a very similar way. And I think that 12th pick, while high and they're going to have a chance to pick a really

good player, increasingly, it's looking like they're going to miss out on a top tier of kind of their two of their top needs, which is cornerback and edge. I wrote about this for Skull Searching, which will be coming out. But like if Stingley's pro day pushed people to think he's going to be more of a top 10 pick, they're probably going to miss out on top two corners. They're going to probably miss out on like the four top edge rushers. And so when, you know, earlier in the off season, you feel like one of these top prospects might fall to them. It's increasingly looking like they might have to settle for a second tier guy or they might have to trade back. So I think that goes into it as well. But I think the major thing is people got excited about a potential quarterback. That's

always what everyone wants to talk about in the draft. And now that's not coming to fruition. And it kind of feels like a lot of the other off seasons that we've had, which isn't a bad thing. And I think, or it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, but I think in those previous years, you could do yourself more convincing that, Oh, the Vikings do just need a left tackle and they are closer to the playoffs or, Oh, they do just need this center and they're closer to the playoffs.

So it was easier for you and fans to get excited because you did feel like that first round pick could be the one missing linchpin to a playoff run and I think what we're realizing with this team is they're probably a few more than just a home run first round pick from them you know contending and being a perennial playoff team. So I think all those things fold in to maybe just, you know, a little bit of draft fatigue at this point, I'd expect it to ramp up, but right now there's some fatigue. Yeah. I mean, once we get to draft night, everyone will be watching and everybody will be excited. And once they make the pick, I guarantee you the podcast, cause this was the case for a really long time. And still until there were some other big news items for us, like the firing of a head coach that for the longest time our reaction to the vikings

drafting christian derisaw and not mac jones uh was the highest you know downloaded podcast and everything else and i i would assume that it ends up going that way for this year until we get to the season and everything else that of the off season the most interest will be right there on draft night but i just don't think there's a clear argument to be had that last year there was a debate it was should they draft whatever quarterback is available or trade up or not and we got to debate that all the way to the last second because they made a phone call to just to try to trade for justin fields and then mac jones is sitting right there on the board and so it was really justified all of that conversation about the quarterback and now it feels like there's me

sort of in the the corner sort of like with my hands over my mouth yelling like quarterback still you know just like grab the quarterback still i'm over here just still do it still do it um we uh the wife and i watched the movie say anything last night i had never seen it before but there's a famous scene it's from 1989 so i don't know if you've seen it but uh it's not surprising they haven't predated a little bit but there's a scene where john cusack is holding up a boom box outside of the girl's window it's actually a pretty decent movie okay is that what is that what that's from because i know that cliche yes i didn't know i probably didn't know

the origin all right so that that's sort of me with like still draft a quarterback even i've come around to this even if it's second round i still think it round, I still think it's okay. I still think it's okay if they were to do it, but this is something that seems far-fetched and it seems like you got to be the guy with the stereo outside the window. And she doesn't in that scene come out by the way, she just stays inside, which is what the Vikings will do to me about this quarterback situation. I think that that is really at the center of it because if we had gone into a totally different route either let's say fork in the road one fork one whatever path takes you toward you have to draft the quarterback because you traded kirk cousins for a first

round pick or whatever you could get for him second round pick or the other path of oh my gosh they traded this this this and this and have DK Metcalf now as we talked about the other day and and they signed this crazy amazing center who's the best pass blocker and now they're all in on offense Kevin O'Connell's gonna go offense his way to the Super Bowl and all they need is Chris Olave and And this is going to be amazing. Well, that hasn't happened really either. And so like, let's talk about this. Like what's the debate then at this point, because we would have been debating, like, should it be Garrett Wilson? Should it be Chris Alave? Should that, you know, who can step in right away? What, you know, how's this trade going to work out? Like that would have created a lot of energy or it would have been, do you believe in Ritter? Do you think

Sam Howell's better than people think? Like, and none of those things have happened. So what's the debate now? I mean, it's, it's hard to find one. I think it's, it's, I think the wide receiver is probably like whether they would pick that is probably the most divisive of which positions they could go because it isn't a clear need and I think people look at Justin Jefferson Adam Thielen KJ Osborne and rightfully say hey we have a lot of good pieces here uh why would we need to do that when we have some other pressing concerns that also match some value on the board that can help both short-term and long-term I think maybe that's the only one, but even that like is hard to get up for because I think people realize at this point,

like Adam Phelan's a good player and he probably could have another couple of years in him, but like the way his contract is structured, like he's probably not worth what the Vikings are paying him. And at some point they have to develop a contingency. And so I think the debate is that, I mean, that's the only one I can see because I don't think there are that many people other than you

and a couple others that are still riding the quarterback pick. Whether or not they should be is a different question. And whether that's – I mean, it probably should get talked about more as a potential option. It just doesn't seem like it's going to be in the cards. So, I mean, unless you're debating, like, Derek Stingley versus Trent McDuffie, like, I don't know what convert, what big, big debates you can have. Uh, or yeah, I guess I would be one. What, what do you think it is? Folks, I've been working on a new studio space to shoot some videos and what better to have in the

background than some awesome prints from our friends at Soda Stick. They have all the designs that they put on clothes, but you can also have them hanging on your walls too, which I will very soon. Everything from the homage to the Metrodome to the Foligno fan club to the hooked on a feeling design to the straight cash homie.

They have it all. Perfect for your football cave or your living room right over the TV. However you want to do it, go to Sodaastick.com. That's S-O-T-A-S-T-I-C-K.com. Use the promo code Purple Insider for 15% off hats, hoodies, shirts, and of course, your prints. I almost feel like among the fan base, there's just so many things that you would be okay with that. There's almost an ambivalence toward the draft and it's very hard to get

too fired up about it. Now, of course you and I have no problems doing that, but I mean, for the, for the general public, for the CCO listeners slash purple insider listener, again,

we appreciate you, but I would also, I mean, almost if you're, if you're that person who uh listens to the show and enjoys the details of the team but you're not somebody who lives and dies with every moment i mean it's pretty hard for me to convince you like look we really need to talk about sauce gardner and how he could you know whatever like that's just tough that's just a tough debate to

have and uh if they draft and i've gone through all these scenarios in my head of like what am i going to say about if they if they were to draft a defensive end all right you know cool like let's find out about the guy i guess george care left this if it's him or what if they draft a corner well you, you needed one. So that's good. The receiver thing. I don't even, I can't even make it divisive. Nobody has said to me on Twitter when I brought this up or whatever, no one has said, Oh man, I would be so mad if they drafted a receiver. Like it's so logical. All the picks are so logical. The only one that would maybe cause a debate is if it was Tyler Linderbaum, but I would be shocked at this point if he's taken that high. So if they traded back and took them, you would still talk about, is that

really a right thing to do? And is that really like an analytical move? But even then offensive line, pretty hard to argue with it that we ran into that last year, last year, the debate was you picked a tackle when the quarterback was there and he's a good prospect. Just because he's not, you know, Trevor Lawrence in terms of prospect status doesn't mean you shouldn't have taken him. So that created like a natural sort of debate there. And that's what I was going to ask. If Malik Willis is there and they don't take him, I think that is where you get into the, if it's Derek Stingley Jr. or Malik Willis,

and they go, eh, let's go with Derek Stingley Jr. Even though it will take three years for us to figure out whether that was right or wrong, I think that sort of sends a lightning bolt through this draft. And that's the one scenario that really does. Because if they pass on Kenny Pickett, pass on Desmond Ritter, pass on Sam Howell or something, I don't know. It's pretty hard to tell them you really, really should have done that when those guys aren't considered to be

great, great quarterback prospects, just because I think you should take one anyway. But Mac Jones was a better prospect than I think all of these guys, except for Malik Willis. But if it is Malik Willis, that changes the game for me. Yeah. I think, I mean, taking the temperature of the Vikings fan base and pretty much just any fan base that is even remotely considering taking a quarterback, like Malik Willis is the fan favorite in every market. And I think deservedly just because of like the excitement he brings. And so I think, yeah, he of whether or not he's the cleanest quarterback prospect to all the evaluators, that's a different story, but just in terms from a fan's perspective and from a arguing, like with the upside that Malik Willis can present.

Cause I think for the Vikings in particular, I mean, you have a pretty good quarterback in the building right now. You don't have a dumpster fire at quarterback. And so you're looking for that tantalizing upside that you know can be better than what you currently have. And while Kenny Pickett with a rookie contract could be better than what the Vikings currently have, Malik Willis is the only quarterback prospect of them that you see marketable improvement this year, like in terms of what you would have in two years and what you'd have in year seven if he is on a bigger contract. Like he's the only quarterback,

I think of any of them that any of the analysts can confidently say could be a star in this class. So I think that could be the one quarterback that could make Vikings fans be upset that they didn't take a quarterback. But I just don't know if he's gonna make it there as things continue to kind of iron themselves out. Vikings fans be upset that they didn't take a quarterback, but I just don't know if he's going to make it there is as,

as things continue to, to kind of iron themselves out. It feels like a couple of teams might like the saints could be accumulating ammo to go up. Some other teams might just stick where they are and draft a guy. If we're getting down to 10 or nine, would Seattle just say, F it,

let's just go for it. Let's just draft him. Like, I think the Vikings are at a hard spot where I don't necessarily think that Malik Willis could make it to them. But I do agree. If that was a conversation, I think that would get people interested, get people engaged. I still don't know if I would see the Vikings doing that, though.

I think they seem to have picked their lane. And whether or not Kweisi would want to, if that was his decision or ownership's decision, it just doesn't feel like a quarterback's in the cards for them. So I was going through just the draft order leading up to the Vikings trying to figure out. I just don't. If Malik Willis is very clearly the most talented quarterback, which I think he is, pure talent, not right now. And all the other ones have major question marks and things have to go right.

They have some upside and some downside to every one of them. And you don't really know or have even a great way to predict it. But there's just so many teams that have a good argument to draft Malik Willis. The Detroit Lions too have a good case, but the team that's being completely overlooked for this is Houston. Houston has Davis Mills as their quarterback at this point. I mean, Malik Willis makes sense there. The New York Giants make sense for him. The Carolina Panthers. I mean, the New York Giants, they're playing out the final season of Daniel Jones. Is anybody excited about the Daniel Jones experiment? They should pick him. They have two first round picks at the top. They should pick him, then get an edge rusher and go forth or a tackle or whatever the heck they need.

I don't know. But Carolina, same deal. Atlanta. I mean, Seattle, every one of these teams could use a quarterback and make a pretty good argument for it. And then Washington right before the Vikings. So I guess, I mean, maybe there's a world where we're completely shocked that three quarterbacks go really high, but it just seems almost impossible for a guy with his arm and his speed. And from all accounts, the character is there as well for Malik Willis. I mean, there's really the red flags are only that the guy played at a really low level at Liberty and did win a good number of games, but didn't play at the

highest competition. And then the other part is just, he took a lot of sacks and things like that, but I mean, raw skills are kind of what you're looking for. There's way too many teams. And so I don't think we'll ever get to that argument. And maybe there's a second round argument, but if the whole league evaluates the guy and he ends up in the middle of the second round, I'd be hard pressed to be super convinced on that. You know, so it's like I think the only debate would be if if they were to have trade offers that got reported or a trade that they made, which I think that things that were previously thought to be impossible or unpredictable have been proven to be possible in this off season where you've had all these quarterback trades and crazy things happening left and right and a head coach retiring in March, like all these things that usually don't happen. Usually there's not a big draft day trade.

I guess I would leave the door open for that yeah i think i mean i'll go back to it a little bit but i think just one of the biggest things that could explain some of the lack of excitement is just if they had gone 10 and 7 and made the first round of the playoffs it's much easier to say they need this one piece they were already close and if they can hit on this first round pick, then they can take it over the edge. They signed Z'Darrius Smith. Like there are enough pieces coming back. They had enough success last year.

We have a new coach to build on success we had last year. Like then it starts to spiral in that like, okay, this first round pick is vitally important to their success next season, their success long-term, and it can be a difference in them making that jump. But I think the jump we're talking about right now is taking them from eight and nine to nine and eight or 10 and seven and being on the fringe of the playoff conversation. So I think it's harder when we know that there are a lot of holes. Like if they go corner, like it's the reason why

if they go so many different directions, it makes sense because they need cornerbacks long-term, they need edge rushers long-term, they need another wide receiver long-term, they need interior offensive line long-term. And so why people would be okay with any of those is because they're all positions of long-term need. And then it's hard for you to say, well, now we have this one quarterback, we're good. Because no, they probably need another edge rusher because even in the most optimistic of projections, you probably have to assume Daniil and Zedarius are going to miss a few games here and there,

the two of them. You're going to have to project that Patrick Peterson is going to get a little older and might not be that great. You have to project that the interior offensive line, like one or two of those guys might not just be that good. And so I think part of it is in previous years, you could talk yourself into, well, they made the playoffs, they beat the saints. Like maybe this draft can be the thing that gets us to go a little bit further. And I think we've just learned the Vikings probably

need this, like two, two years of drafts before you're in that spot again, where you feel really, really good. And yes, this team could make a playoffs and maybe even win a first round, but I think we've seen the Kirk Cousins experiment enough. And we've seen a lot of these guys on the roster enough where we can't really goad ourselves into thinking one first round pick is going to make that massive of a difference. Well, and the most interesting thing now with the way that they've chosen to go becomes Kevin O'Connell and how he's going to coach the team. And as they go into the draft, that's we're a long way from getting to how Kevin O'Connell is going to coach the team and that that's where we start to get into training camp and then we start to get into

preseason and we're looking for well what's different with their scheme and and what can we glean from the things that are being said and also even I mean we just have not heard anything still really from Kirk Cousins how does he feel about a short-term contract? How does he feel about Kevin O'Connell being his coach? He's done maybe a radio interview and that's about it. And so until we hear a lot more from Kirk Cousins about what the differences of the schemes are and how confident he feels and things like that, like there isn't, there isn't a lot to say in terms of projecting what they're going to be

differently just because they get George Karolaf this or someone like that or Derek Stingley Jr. Like those would be really good draft picks for them. You're absolutely right. But when we're not really like the biggest question is kind of a ways out from now, I think it's harder until draft night when you see the guy get picked and then everybody is excited about what he can be. then we could debate did they do the right thing and what about this guy we don't know who's going to be on the board all those sorts of things that as for right now when we're talking about this it really is sort of missing the the biggest story and the biggest intrigue which is what kevin o'connell is going to be and then just how much of this we get to pin on Mike Zimmer,

if it's, if it's all different and everything else, which I thought was a very good question from someone the other day. I forget if it was a fans only pod or a Friday mailbag pod of just, you know, are we going to, if the Vikings go 13 and four, are we going to say,

well, I guess Zimmer was that bad. But that, that, that becomes a very interesting thing to study on a day-to-day basis where we can't really do that yet. I don't think, uh, they're going to have workouts this week. And of course we'll be out there, but I don't think we're going to figure that out this week. Um, whether, you know, that's going to be

the case. Uh, I had another question for you, Paul Paul, unrelated, by the way. So it's hard to have a conversation saying, well, you know, why aren't people as jacked up about the draft? I'm jacked up. I would, I would like to make it, I would like to make it known. I am very jacked up. I'm ready to see where like some random North Northern Ohio tackle goes and like which wide receiver gets taken. Cause they're all so different. Like stylistically was I'm jacked up and I'm ready to do it. I'm just, I would not blame anyone if they aren't as jacked up as I am. So I hope there's so many of me out there, but I'm realistic in thinking, I may be an outlier.

And that's what I mean is that I'm just, I'm sensing that there isn't this sort of urgency. Like I, the tweets that I still get are kind of about, well, what do you think they think of this guy? And do you think that, you know, they might, you know, stick with Garrett Bradbury or is there other moves to make? And there are still questions that are coming in about, you know, how much ownership is controlling certain things and whether this will be the Quasey draft. And those are kind of the questions that I'm getting. So that's where I'm getting the sense is people are asking,

should it be Stigley? Should it be Garrett Wilson? There isn't that debate, I guess, going on, that the interest has sort of been distracted by this discovery that maybe Quasey Adafo- daflamento wasn't going to be allowed to just free reign completely rebuild the roster and everything else and i guess that's another part of it going into a draft night that we'll discuss a lot more is ways that he could hack the draft and maybe people need to make t-shirts of like hack the draft quasi um fit like is there a way that he

can figure out how to maximize um and we'll talk uh with austin gale of pff about this um this week but just like is there a way to hack the draft is there is there an analytical way to give yourself a better chance to give yourself is it more draft picks or is there maybe a case for even trading up higher to try to get a superstar? Like all those scenarios, those get me excited to talk about them. It's just the sense that I'm getting from fans. And I appreciate all the questions and messages because I think that really helps me understand where everybody is or what everybody is feeling. Everybody stands going into this thing. So anyhow, we were talking before we started recording about Tiger Woods. Tough week for him at the Masters.

It wasn't another dream scenario where Tiger was walking on Sunday up to the 18th with the chance to win it. But for a really long time, there was this conversation with Tiger Woods of will he catch Jack Nicklaus? Will he make another major? Will he make another major? Will he win another major? And anytime you would be listening to like late night ESPN radio or something, if it was the middle of summer, that was the conversation because it was just an automatic,

interesting discussion from, from the word go can Tiger do it? Like what that kind of thing. And I wanted to ask you what you think the most cliche football debates are that at any time. And we do the show all year round. So, uh, you know, maybe July we could pull these out and say, let's debate, let's debate this, like the biggest football, biggest cliche football debates. What do you think?

Well, I'm sure at one time it was probably like, who's the best quarterback ever? I don't know if there's, you'd probably have to give me a better historical sense of what it is now, but I, at least for me, it doesn't seem like it'd be much of an argument now with everything that Brady's doing. But I would assume at one point that was the biggest debate going back and forth. I think because we live in a Vikings-centric zone, I think the debate we get most often revolves kind of around the Kirk discussion of paying quarterbacks and what their values are. I think people can spin themselves in circles with that one.

I think probably at one point or another, the running backs don't matter conversation was probably a pretty divisive one. I think people are starting to kind of come around to a consensus on that too. But I think we have some potential for some really good ones moving forward, especially if Josh Allen can get to a Super Bowl, then you're going to have the Josh Allen Mahomes conversation that I think can go on for a really, really long time. Like there are some cool blossoming storylines that are possible, but I'd love to hear what you think are some of the, just the debates you feel like you can roll out of bed and just, and just have right away. Yeah. There are ones that come and go

that are really intense and go on for way longer than they should. Like Tim Tebow, there was a whole season that was just do you think that tim tebow is a good quarterback and anyone who's ever watched football before would be like no but then there's people who really liked him as a guy and liked him in college who were like no he's committing miracles and hey great throw in the pittsburgh game though it was a great throw but is it that's a that's sort of the funny thing about tebow is that he probably was better than backup quarterbacks and sort of ended up out of the league because he became too much of a distraction to be a backup quarterback because of his celebrity and just just a funny thing but man that was intense i forgot my i forgot my

favorite one which is the uh who who deserves more credit for the Patriots success, Bill or Brady. Those are great because we still have them to this day. Like, oh, now that Brady's coming back, Tom or Belichick's struggling. Like this one we can have for so long. And that one always gets me going i'll tell you a funny one that was real and if you're if you don't recall this then it blows your mind is when matt castle had to play that one season that tom brady got hurt and castle went like 10 and 5 or something i think they went 11 and 5 overall and they missed the playoffs that

year which is really weird just because the way that the afc worked out it was very top heavy and they went 11 and 5 and still somehow missed the playoffs but in that off season there were a lot of people going on tv the talking head thing and saying they should trade brady just stick with castle it's clear they can win with him he's just as good that's a that's an offshoot of the look it's really belichick but the difference between them is that brady is capable of going 16 and 0 and so if there's a four or five win difference between quarterbacks it's a pretty big gap and i think that's what they uh they really were and eventually of course brady proved that but

that's a that's a really funny offshoot. Greatest quarterback of all time was a good one. Manning versus Brady for a long time was really a great one because Brady had more wins, but Manning had better stats. And so it was like, oh, is Manning a choker? Is Brady actually clutch? So you want him. But then Brady had the stats too later in his career, and you kind of had to go, well, it's, it's probably the guy with the rings. But I mean,

Montana Elway Marino, you had those three guys that got debated early and then there was, you know, Montana or young, which one was better in San Francisco. So there's a lot of little ones that sort of pop up. The other one that always comes up and i've gotten absolutely exhausted of is what to do about overtime and so they're still changing this and they're still fiddling with this and i have yet to really look deeply into how the new rules work i'll figure that out when there are games but the overtime and how it should be played and should it

be like the college and that sort of thing rules debates will just always and forever exist in the NFL. Yeah, or like what to do on fourth downs. I spend my like in the middle of the NFL season. I like if we have to keep doing the two point conversion fourth down debates, those those get tiring. But also that that encompasses Twitter for like a solid half of the football season. So that is an everlasting one that will always be there that we can continue to argue. Yep, for sure. And I think with the Vikings ones, Adrian Peterson and how much he

meant to the Vikings is a pretty hot debate. I remember writing maybe 2016 about Peterson a little bit, and I would get emails with some people who would say, how dare you say that Adrian Peterson isn't the best player in the NFL. Be like, huh? And then there would be other people who wanted to see him put in a rocket ship and sent to the move. That just,

I think that he is probably not the tiger woods is really divisive at this point. Maybe right after the scandal, there were some people who would have defended him and others who would have been very critical of him. But Peterson would go under the category of the most divisive players. Now, let me ask one more question related to Tiger Woods, which is who playing right now? Do you think we'll have a tiger woods moment like the masters like who is set up that's a superstar right now to have a career arc that where they're very hot and then eventually they uh win at a late age and everybody cheers for them and everybody cares

about them because i was asking you like does Tiger Woods mean something to someone who's in their early twenties? Like it does to someone who's in their mid thirties. And the answer is sort of yes and no. But, but I would say much, much more to the millennial group. And I wonder who that's going to be for football, where this person just sort of my homes is probably the most obvious answer, but just has a transcendent nature across generations yeah it's it's so hard with tiger just because of what he meant to

golf in terms of just like having diversity in golf and like letting a lot of people like see themselves in golf which would had never been there before and then just like his pure dominance which i don't think is necessarily ever something we can get in football just because the parody of the playoffs and one games i mean i was talking like we were talking about how sports center would say tiger like pick tiger the field for tournaments like that is insane because there's 156 guys in a tournament and the fact that you could ever feel good about just taking one player over the entirety of the field is just absolutely absurd he drove up like purse numbers so much guys on the pj2 were playing for nothing now they're playing the winner of the masters gets 2.7 million dollars um so i we that hasn't happened yet today but that

someone will make 2.7 million dollars today just for a week of work so that all has to be thanks to tiger but yeah i think when you're talking about both like transcendent just in the way they play and their personality and what they've already done my homes is on that track record um in terms of just like if we're going kind of more of a divisive route i think uh if rogers ever wins another super bowl that would be a really really interesting thing because for a while tiger was a divisive person after his scandals and everything like that and there are people rooting for and against him and i think rogers has two sides of his people that really hate him and people that really really love him and so if he sees success i think that would also be one a little different not like the revered by everyone

because that is certainly not rogers but he would certainly inspire a reaction from anyone, no matter where you stand, you have an opinion on Aaron Rodgers. And that would, that would be tested if he is wins another Superbowl or something. Yeah. There's another element of where Rodgers probably doesn't fall into the category unless he wins another Superbowl of someone that 15 years from now,

people who didn't really see a lot of him are still excited about him. That's how, that's how it is with tiger where even if you didn't see tiger at his peak, you're still like, wow, it's tiger. Like he's trying this, he's coming back from this.

And there's this big storyline. You know, I don't know if there's thatady pushes it brady pushes it like five more years then then you get in some crazy territory where it's like what is he doing like can he make it to 50 like something wild like that but brady like randy moss has this where people who didn't even watch randy moss play are excited about about Randy Moss still when he's on TV, when you see his highlight reel, there are some players and some athletes who just sort of transcend time and always seem to live in superstardom. And I know that Rogers has accomplished a lot to be that type of player, but there's even like another level above. And I feel like

Favre is in another level above where it's almost like mythology about a player. Moss, Walter Payton, people that you didn't even see play. Lawrence Taylor, I wouldn't have seen a whole lot of play in my life. But you know exactly what they look like. And I'm not sure that Rodgers ends up with that type of career, especially with what he's done over the last year to dismantle goodwill around him. Maybe for some people, they agree with some of the stuff he says,

but I think even then you would be asking like, why are you doing this? Like, why, why are you kind of becoming a champion for some of these things? I don't know. And so, and not only that,

but he's also treated his own team like garbage, which is another point that even if you, even if you listen to Rogers talk and you think, yeah, that guy's got some answers. I mean, I, I personally am just confused by a lot of his takes, but okay, that's fine. But you still have to be like, why do you treat your team this way? Like, I don't know the whole thing last year. So that, that is her. I think that's hurt him where almost with Favre, it was more hilarious that he just kept doing the retirement and everything else. And in hindsight, it was almost precious. And I think another reason why we wouldn't see any sort of tiger situation in probably any type of sport is we just saw so

many lows with him. Like we experienced like his crazy injuries, his scandal, his accident. Like the way media works nowadays is most athletes don't really let you see like their really low lows. And if I was an athlete, like I wouldn't want my low lows projected across the entire globe and talked about on every news talk show.

But I just don't know necessarily if we'll get that level of scrutiny and breaking down of either one, even seeing when people have those extreme lows. And I mean, we've, we've seen it in several different iterations with tiger and then for him to continue to be dominant. Like it's just not something that I think can really foster and, and probably grow in the current environment that we have.

So it's why he's so unique. Yeah, no, he really is. He really is unique. And there'll only be a handful of people like him. Maybe Mahomes will kind of be the same way eventually, but also if you were trying to bet right now over under two and a half Superbowls for Mahomes, it would be hard to bet the over, like just how difficult the AFC is, how many great quarterbacks there are and how everybody's coming for him. That's probably the most impressive thing about tiger is that everybody was coming for him for such a long time and he just continued to dominate uh so anyway well i've enjoyed this um conversation a little bit on the casual side but i can tell you that after next week draft season oh we're ramping

oh we're ramping oh we're ramping oh it's getting intense folks so thanks for your time paul and thank you to all of the crossover wcco radio purple insider listeners including your mom and uh we will talk again soon thanks for your time