Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Are we overreacting to Vikings loss to Eagles? (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Matthew Coller talks with Vikings fans about the loss to Philly and then the round table breaks it down. The Purple Insider podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Also, check out our sponsor HIMS at https://hims.com/purpleinsider Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider, Matthew Collar, here. And the show, as always, presented by Fanduel. We'll have a Fandual question of the day in just a moment. But we'll have a lot to break down here over the next hour. I've been taking your questions, comments, thoughts, and reactions slash overreacting to the Vikings lost to the Philadelphia. Eagles, and I apologize for any time that I'm looking over to my right, I'm watching Lions, Tampa Bay. Sometimes on a Monday night or Thursday night football don't really have to keep an eye on it. But in the division, I'm going to be looking over here a little bit to the game as

well. And so hopefully you're enjoying the game and listening to some Vikings talk and tossing some questions in that comment section. I would love if you guys would start out your questions or comments with, am I overreacting to say blank or just, you know, sort of insinuated? Like, am I overreacting to have X opinion? And then we can kind of talk about it that way because, you know, the Vikings did drop to three and three. And it was funny to go back and analyze that game when I looked at the tape today. And I thought about how many really good plays they had, both on offense and defense.

I thought Jalen Redmond had a really, really good. good game. They slowed down the run. It seemed like Philadelphia just got absolutely nothing from running the football. And there were a number of times where Jalen Hertz didn't see a whole lot to work with. He rolled out and rolled out into technically a sack or there were a handful of other plays where he didn't see where he's supposed to go with the ball initially. And then he's got to pull it down and you're thinking, well, great job by the defense because they shut down the initial first read there for Jalen Hertz and then all the sudden he scrambles out and he makes a big play or somebody breaks open and he finds them and it felt like this game was right

there for the taking so many times for the Minnesota Vikings even in the red zone and I got a chance to look at the reverse angle of Blake Brandel simply knocking down a man's hands which I think is allowed in football and yet was called as a penalty in fact it looked like there was even a chance that the defender may have tripped on someone else's foot as he was slapping his hands down. And that's why he went to the ground. It is as bad of a holding call as you'll see. But there's lots of other plays in the game that the Vikings absolutely caused their own fate. There's a throw to Jalen Naylor breaking open in the end zone on I think that same drive, maybe even the play before. I get them mixed up when they fail five different times in the

red zone, but he's breaking open. He's one-on-one. A good throw is a touchdown and the throw goes flying over Jalen Naylor's head. There's a lot of other times where the interior pressure just melted Carson Wentz, which it's hard to blame Carson Wentz. He showed a little mobility, but you're not talking about the best playmaker. You're not talking about the fastest processor in history. You're talking about a backup caliber quarterback at this point in his career. They get in the red zone, nobody's open, doesn't pull the trigger, and immediately sacked on a pass rush up the middle. That happened late in the game. There were a few different times, including the pick six, where Blake Brandel was beaten soundly so quickly that there's not a lot that we should

expect Carson Wentz to be able to do in those spots other than just dirt the ball. But, you know, I will say, I have to correct something that I may have said, I didn't remember a lot of pressure on that ball that he got called for intentional grounding, but it was about to arrive. And that's why he just tossed the ball down in the ground, but no doubt a very bad decision by Carson Wentz. So it was a little bit of everything when it came to the red zone. It was a bad call by the refs. Justin Jefferson can't bring in a ball that we usually expect him to. But as he was spinning around, Cooper DeGine right at the last minute taps the ball out. It's some miss throws. It's some inaccurate throws. It's some bad decisions. It's not being able to pound

the ball in. Xavier Scott looked like he was going to be able to get in, but then got kind of stone. Well, actually, they scored on the next play after that. So that one wasn't too bad. But, you know, there were just so many times where they were close and close does not count in the NFL. And then times on defense where it looks like they were going to slow down Philadelphia's offense. And then it's a third and 13, and A.J. Brown does awesome things against Jeff Okuda, watching the tape on that play. It was actually amazing. A.J. Brown, as soon as Jalen Hurts starts to scramble, he pushes upfield, knowing that he's going to come back to the ball. So he kind of deeks like he's going to go deep and then turns around, and then he's got a break on Jeff Okuda, makes the

play. Devante Smith actually did something earlier in the game that was very similar to that. against Okuda, where it looked like he was going deep. And then he breaks back to Jalen Hertz. I'm sure that that's something that the Eagles work on all the time. That chemistry was really evident for them. So even though the game was really defined by the big mistakes, the missed opportunities, there were also a lot of things that they did well,

including Jordan Addison had a phenomenal game. Absolutely phenomenal. He was cooking people with his route running. He was open all day. The outbreaking routes, they had no chance at whatsoever. There were some very nice play designs by Kevin O'Connell to get Justin Jefferson the ball. He came out of the backfield at one point. There was the 40-yard catch where they picked a really good play against the blitz.

And that left that side of the field vacated. He catches the ball. He goes down the sideline. And they just could not finish in that game. And then couldn't get that one big stop that they needed time and time. again. Now, on the big picture of that is all the things I describe to you is what 500 teams do. 500 teams have a lot of moments where you go, oh, wow, that's a great play by Jordan Addison. And then they have a lot of moments where you go, how can you give up that big play?

How can you make that big mistake? How can you not finish that drive? And so forth. And you guys are very well versed in 500 football because you saw so much of it during the Kirk era and it was a lot of this. I mean, even think of the four and four start to the beginning of the 2023 season. That's what this has felt like almost carbon copy. Some players get hurt. The defense is up and down. You have some wins that you like. You have some losses that you're surprised by. It comes down to, hey, why didn't that guy catch that ball in the end zone? in the case of 2023, why are they fumbling so much? Or why did it hit that dude in the face mask and end up being a touchdown

since that game is on my mind a little bit with the Vikings playing the Chargers this week? It's been the same type of thing. And we can go through all of those from 2020, from 2021. How about 2021? Where they were in a bunch of close games, but they blew them because the ball hit Bashad Breeland and tipped right in the hands of C.D. Lamb. and then Dallas with Cooper Rush converts a fourth down, throwing to Ezekiel Elliott to set up a score.

I mean, you remember all of those games. Delvin Cook, was it a fumble? Actually, the Blake Brandel hold reminded me of that. And there was another play against Kansas City in 2023 that was not called this past interference, which it maybe clearly was, but Jordan Addison didn't throw his hands up enough. You remember that. So you could think of all these teams that were 500, where we end. end up obsessing over a couple of missed calls or a drop in the end zone that should have been

a catch, but the referees in New York decided to slow it down to the millisecond, and they saw the very nose of the ball scrape against one piece of little rubber pellet or something in the end zone. So that's not a catch anymore. But normally, if you're a good team and these things happen to you, you just win anyway. And you forget about those. I mean, last year, I'm sure that last year, when they were going 14 and 3, there was a flag or two that were thrown that we didn't agree with or that were bad calls. Or there was a review that the Vikings were on the wrong side of and we went, what the heck are the rules?

I'm sure that happened at some point, but do they stick out in your mind the same way? No, because the team ultimately ended up going on to win. How about I remember in the 2002 comeback game against Indianapolis, where there was at least one, maybe even two touchdowns that were taken off the board on fumbles. I mean, definitely one, where it was a fumble and the Vikings picked it up and ran it for a touchdown. And then they said he was down. But then when you looked at it, it didn't really look like it. But we don't remember that. They came back to win.

What difference does it make? It's only when your team is around 500 that those things eat at you, the way that. that they have for the Vikings. And the bottom line after that game, which I think was very much a pivot point for this season, this kind of two game section. But if you could win two, then, okay, well, you're kind of a contender. If you win one, you're the 500 team that we're kind of talking about.

And if you win zero, you're probably just not good. If you're facing Philly and Los Angeles and you split them, then you're okay. If you lose two, then we're just talking. about well this is going to be one of those mostly lost seasons and we'll of course get into how it can maybe not be lost. But I felt like this is 500 team stuff. It's all stuff we've seen before. And I just didn't really have the energy to rant about the replay system. I think that you guys know as well as anybody that it's driven me insane since they brought instant replay back to the NFL. The way that they do it, the challenge system.

what is New York allowed to do and what are they not allowed to do? And why does it seem like they make their own rules because who's going to stop them? The Detroit Lions should be as annoyed as anybody that New York can just buzz in and say they had an illegal formation. Now, wait a minute.

If it's not called on the field, and this is, you know, I haven't let it go from last week. If it's not called on the field, you can buzz in and call it. So why not Sam Darnold's face mask last year? So there's a lot of different things there. if the ruling on the field is that it was a touchdown, my understanding was that the ruling on the field carries the most weight.

So if it's not definitive. Now, in the stadium, they show, like, here's what New York is looking at. Any of you at the game, you saw this yesterday. And I'm looking and I'm watching and I'm going, I don't know how they can overturn this. I was very confident they weren't going to overturn it. And then there they go. So what are the rules?

Nobody knows. Bad holding calls, yeah, that happens, but not being able to figure out what a catch is. That's something that I thought was resolved many years ago. My point, though, is I just don't really have the energy for that when you feel like this team showed so much weakness in the game yesterday, so many gaping holes in the game yesterday that are very, very similar to what we saw against Pittsburgh. and I remember doing the post game after Pittsburgh and saying this is a very disturbing loss because Pittsburgh had all the answers and while Philadelphia didn't run as well as Pittsburgh they had the answers which was taking advantage of the Vikings in coverage that's what DK Metcalf did that's what Devante Smith and AJ Brown did it was funny I was adding up

their yardage yesterday and I was like 200 wait a minute how many yards did they end up with? And then you add up, it's kind of crazy to think about when you add up what Aaron Rogers did and Jalen Hertz, literally the only two good quarterbacks they've faced this year, which makes this even more disturbing how they've played because the toughest quarterbacks are yet to come. They haven't even faced a murderer's row of quarterbacks. Caleb Williams in his first game where he didn't have the scheme down and was struggling early on. Still, Caleb Williams gets a big lead on them. Michael Pennix, who has not played great. I think he's been okay. He's had his ups and downs, but he certainly hasn't been anywhere near great. And you kill Jake Browning. Okay, well, he's been

benched since. Aaron Rogers is not even the same Aaron Rogers, but still, obviously, is very good, completes 90% of his passes against you and has no trouble whatsoever. I think what did he take maybe one or two sacks in the game? They go up against Dylan Gabriel. Even he had his moments. He threw a couple touchdowns. They didn't get the ball away from him. really sack him a whole lot. And then here's Jalen Hertz, a star quarterback, a Super Bowl MVP quarterback, and he makes the defense look like they could not do anything out there. And that's why I bring up 2023, 2021, where it's like there's a lot of talented players on

this defense, but it also feels like there's a lot of holes on this defense that are going to be very hard to cover up. So the two teams that you've played that are decent, or even if we include Atlanta, I mean, The only good win is against Chicago, and that had to come with what seemed like historic until what Denver did yesterday, but an unbelievable, furious comeback at the very end to get away with it and leave Chicago with a win. I mean, that's how close they are to having either one or two wins and then having to have a furious comeback against the Cleveland Browns. All this stuff, again, just sort of screams your 500 team, which I think is why. the reaction to yesterday's game, which was, as is for every loss, but this one especially felt like ferocious from the fans, I think it was, it's, there's a line, of course,

there's a line, crossing the line to fire this person, fire that, okay, all right, like, I get it, but, you know, everyone wants to rage out against the coach and all that. Like, that's, you know, typical stuff, but within reason. But I think that in terms of being very gut-punched by the loss was that you've seen that movie so many times before where the quarterback is pretty good and has his moments in the game and throws for a lot of yards, but then has this enormous gargantuan mistake where he clearly should have just taken the sack, but he didn't see the outside linebacker dropping. And we've seen, you know, Kirk make that mistake before. You've seen, you know, Sam Darnold make that mistake before, and so it's not the first time anyone's ever done it. In fact, that's why Dick LeBoe ran those types of pressures so much during his career is it was an answer to the West Coast offense. It was an answer to all those slants and things like that.

So Philly called the right defense at the right time, but he sees that if Jalen Carter isn't screaming toward him and destroying the center on that play. And there it is again where it's like, yeah, you're really good. Derisaw had a good game. O'Neill had a good game. I thought that Jackson came back pretty well. Fries was fine in past protection, but the one weakness, there it is getting you. If you guys have been wearing hats or trying different haircuts in order to cover up for your hair loss, trust me, I totally feel you. And maybe you've tried different hair loss solutions and nothing works. Well, I've got something for you then. It's called Hymns. Hymns offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work.

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like typical Blake Cashman stuff. I think he's still coming back, but you noticed him out there as a difference maker, having him in Wilson instead of pace, it's good. But your weakness of taking on elite wide receivers with a guy who's the first time, full-time starter at Corner, or Josh Mattelis ending up in deep coverage, versus A.J. Brown, like, these are the weaknesses of the Minnesota Vikings and a team like

Philly is going to be able to take advantage of them. So as they go forward, you're kind of feeling like it's going to be a lot of the same stuff where maybe they'll beat the Chargers and it'll feel like the season's back on and then lose to Detroit and it'll feel like the season's back off and you're getting jostled around. And at the end of the day, you're hoping for three teams to lose on the final week of the season and they don't. And you miss the playoffs. And then it all feels like what happened here. And there's only really one way out of that, my friends, which is why you could say that it's the right reaction. And I would generally agree. But the reason it might be an overreaction is that if we pull back and we think about what this season was supposed to

be, this season was supposed to be J.J. McCarthy throwing to Addison, Jefferson, Hawkinson, and the whole franchise pushing forth through the tough moments, like Atlanta, right? That's what this was supposed to be. It was supposed to be the supporting cast rallies around the young quarterback. He develops on the fly. Yeah, there's some bad moments, but then there's some flashes of greatness like in the fourth quarter against Chicago. And we ride that roller coaster. The defense shuts teams down.

So if you get five field goals, then maybe you win the game anyway. which is what we thought was going to happen with this team. There's so many of those things that what we were told, what I told you, what I thought was going to happen, what they told us. It's like they tell us, I tell you, and everybody's wrong. And you get excited about it, and we all are looking at it like, what happened is kind of how it goes, right?

That's what was supposed to be the plan. And having not been able to see J.J. McCarthy go through those ups and downs. And now we're talking about, if he doesn't start this week, we're talking about, what, six weeks that he's going to be out. And that's missing another big chunk of his early development and growth. If they were three and three and he had played exactly the same way Carson Wentz has played, we would probably say, well, hey, he'll never throw that interception again. And hey, tough game, but he fought and he's going to have to improve.

But, you know, it's the Super Bowl champs. And three and three, you're still in it. turn a corner, like, I think you could be okay, but not having it be J.J. McCarthy, that's where it felt like, what did we just do for the last three hours? Because no real progress was made. And I think that that's the difference between last year and this year, which is, and even going back to 2023, is that you felt like the 2023 season, just by proxy of them getting the salary cap right for the future, that that was progress and setting themselves up honestly with a good draft pick in the top 11 at the time they

moved up to 10 but a good draft pick to draft a quarterback like that was progress even though it was a bad and frustrating seven and 10 season they still set themselves up for the future and last year it felt very important even though it didn't end the way you wanted to it felt very important for the coaching staff to show us what they were made of. For KOC to show that the QB Whisperer thing is real and for Brian Flores to show that he could take free agent talent that he identifies and turn it into stars, right? Like all this stuff, we came away feeling like,

hey, silver lining to a bad ending of a 14 and 3 season, is that we know who we were dealing with here. And the coach gets the extension and the G.E. gets the extension and you think, well, okay, now you're set up and all the things that you felt like were going to happen, that the defensive tackles were going to rush the passer and make a huge difference instead of Javon Hargrave only playing a handful of snaps, although Redmond might just be great. He's been, he was absolutely dominant in this game. He just made play after play and Levi Drake Rodriguez has been good too. So I guess, you know, my maybe two steps forward.

at one step back there. But still, nonetheless, you thought that they were going to find these guys in the secondary, revamped them similar to how they did with free agents before. And you thought that the receivers, the offensive line, the money that they had spent on it was going to support the young

quarterback. And what you also thought was that you were going to see J.J. McCarthy day in and day out. And that, I think, is what has everyone as down as they are. Because if they were three and three, and it was with J.J. McCarthy, then you wouldn't be thrilled and you'd be saying,

ah, you know, it's an uphill battle from here. You know, Detroit's going to be tough and the Chargers are going to be tough this week. And even when you go into the future, like Baltimore is just not going to give you the game if Lamar Jackson is back. Chicago's playing better. But I think that everyone would be sort of up for it. And you would be walking away from some of these games saying, you know what, it's not what we thought it was going to be.

but did you see those 10 throws by J.J. McCarthy? Did you see those five plays by J.J. McCarthy that if he just eliminates a couple of the mistakes, then they're going to win some of these games and if they make the playoffs with them. Like, that's not even hard to talk yourself into. But without him playing, it feels so much more like purgatory and the place that this franchise has been in for a long time. And so that's why I think that the reaction from yesterday from fans, well, of course, it's always going to be overreacting to a lot of different individual performances or so forth. I mean, some people just get really enraged and yell that KOC can't call plays, even though if you watch the tape, you're like, I don't know how much more open you could get some of these guys, right? I mean, and the T.J. Hawkinson catch, by the way, that is as routine as a wide open touchdown, as you're not.

you can get and Carson Wentz misses him because he's Carson Wentz and that happened a few times. So I think that we, a lot of folks just, you lost and you need to point your anger at something. But the reality is the reason this season hasn't been fun is because it hasn't been anything like what it was expected to be. And even if it was 75% of what you expected it to be, which let's say is just McCarthy and then some of these other things fall apart, you know, Jones doesn't, uh, stay healthy and Hargrave's not as good as you expected or whatever. You could work your way through that if you were riding the roller coaster with the young

quarterback. When you're riding the roller coaster with the backup as the young quarterback sits on the sideline, it doesn't feel like an overreaction to be throwing up your hands and saying WTF is this season. And then today, this brings me all to today because I think some folks were hoping that because Wentz played as poorly as he did, that he would be benched for the game on Thursday. And well, that is, I suppose, possible. And we're going to hear from Kevin O'Connell tomorrow.

I mean, maybe, but they have to estimate what they would do in practice had they had a real practice. That's how you do it. On a Monday, when there's a Thursday night game, they have to put out an injury report and it has to be an estimate. So who would have practiced in full? who would not have practiced in full. And J.J. McCarthy listed as not practicing in full.

Now, it's not a real practice, so I guess, you know, I don't know. Like, it's just, I don't think he would have. But for him not to be back fully practicing weeks and weeks and weeks after an injury that he was able to finish the game, and I can get to those conspiracy theories, and then we'll talk about your comments for about a half hour, and then we'll, you know, get on to Brian Murphy and Mani Hill. at 7.30. But to have him finish the game, come out with an ankle injury, sound like it's one or two weeks, and then still not a chance to see him. It doesn't look like against the

Chargers. That has felt very empty as well because all of this time, not practicing in full, is development time. It actually would have been better if the conspiracies were real and he had just been benched and then could have been practicing. That actually would have been way better than the reality. The reality is that he hasn't been able to practice in full, which means not being able to make significant or as significant of progress on all those things that Kevin O'Connell was talking about. So they'll practice tomorrow.

That's the only time they'll practice. It would be pretty surprising if he went from inactive on a Sunday, one practice to starting on Thursday against the Chargers, which really brings us to going on, what, week nine against Detroit. I think what was confirmed by Wentz's performance is that he is a great backup. Like, don't get me wrong. He is a great backup. This is as good as you could get.

Two and two, find me all the backups around the NFL who are winning games. There aren't many of them. It's a good backup quarterback. The Case Keenham thing will probably never happen again, where you have a quarterback of that level who just wins 13 games. So Wentz has done the job. He's kept the season alive. And if he gets to four and three, no matter how he plays, J.J. McCarthy should be the starting quarterback against the Detroit Lions on week nine.

In fact, if he's not, it would be truly disturbing if he's not the quarterback because that means either another setback with the ankle or that means he's not just soft bench. He's totally benched, which wouldn't make any sense compared to what we've seen for the quarterback play of Wentz. It's been okay. It's been maddening. It's been he could get the ball to the ball. the number one and two wide receivers, but can he consistently throw it accurately? Absolutely not

at this point in his career, but he can win you a game against Cincinnati or Cleveland, and he's not going to win you a game against a future Hall of Famer, and I don't want to say that quite about Hertz yet, but a Super Bowl champion, he's not going to outperform those guys in a one-on-one battle. So if McCarthy comes back, and this would be the brightest possible version. And the only way that this ends up being an overreaction to the Eagles loss is if J.J. McCarthy comes back against Detroit and they're four and three and you still feel like the season is on. And there's a chance for McCarthy to get hot and win some games and pull off another division victory against the team that's really struggling and it's secondary, although

they're doing a great job tonight so far against Baker Mayfield. But you get my point. If he can come back and play the remainder of the season healthy and play 500 football after going four and three as a team and inheriting a four and three team. They could beat the chargers here and go 500 and then get to the end of the year and look around and go, hey, you finish with a winning record. Maybe you made the playoffs. Maybe you didn't. And the NFC, that might be difficult this year.

That can still be a success for this team. setting itself up for the following season. And then, of course, some changes are going to have to be made with the roster and they're carrying over cap space and they can make adjustments to people's contracts. They've set themselves up for that. And, you know, because I'll see every once in a while, well, the Vikings, what are they going to do their X number of dollars under, you know, over the cap? And we've seen the saints, right?

Like the saints have been over the cap for 15 straight years. I'm not saying the cap isn't real. It is. And we know it is from previous experience. but they are in the window where you can do stuff to extend the window. So there could still be light at the end of the tunnel, even without a perfect scenario. But it has to begin with J.J. McCarthy coming back and playing.

And even if it's a roller coaster having more good than bad, and even if the defense isn't what it was supposed to be, giving them a chance to win some big games here or there, could make this a lot more successful than it appears right now. So while your reactions are very legitimate, the thing that is the most important is still on the way. I think that's the whole point of this. It took me a while to get there. But the thing that's the most important is not happening right now and is supposed to happen soon.

And I do want to say, I get it. I really do. I understand how the outside world works, the internet, the big TV talking head and everything else. hey, Bryce Young's week to week with an ankle injury, Patrick Mahomes would have been playing with an ankle injury. Why isn't J.J. McCarthy? He must be soft benched or he must be a wuss or something. I don't really know what the other implication is.

But it seems like people are saying it like that. I think that as much as the Internet loves a theory, a conspiracy, the answer has been given right to us that's the most plausible, which is that McCarthy got hurt in the game. It was expected to be two to four weeks, like Adam Schaefter said. And then they went overseas. He experienced some swelling. He didn't get practice in overseas.

They came back. He did some workout in the by week. Was not 100% and was, he told us last week, not 100%. And Kevin O'Connell doesn't want to start him at less than 100%. And if they were playing next Sunday, maybe he was. be starting. But the way the schedule has played out, and this goes for going overseas for two weeks, this goes for coming back and playing a Thursday game. It has not been a normal, favorable schedule for somebody to just stay in Egan, Minnesota, and work on his ankle and have a normal

amount of practice and get back on the field. And that has held him back. And then now, if you were asking him to start on a Thursday with no real practice, that seems like, you know, it would be very difficult to do. They might. They might. And trust me, everybody would, you know, go outside and light firecrackers and shoot fireworks into the sky with joy that he was coming back. But I don't know if that's the smartest thing to do for him as opposed to having an extra

day of practice next week leading into the lions, getting him back to as close to 100% as he can be before he goes out there and starts. Because if they can beat the chargers who are really struggling right now, then your season is still in front of you with a chance for him to improve and play the best he can play and maybe get you into the playoffs. So pushing him out there at less than 100% against Philly, who as you saw has a pretty nasty defensive tackle group and really wrecked Carson Wentz a bunch of times. Did you want J.J. McCarthy facing that on a bum ankle?

I don't really think so. And then going out and facing the chargers with almost no preparation. Well, what happened the last time they played on a short week and he missed some practice? Wasn't locked in, didn't play well, struggled, and ends up getting hurt. So why would you want to repeat that and throw them out there on a Thursday? Makes much more sense to try to win it with Wentz and try to beat a team that is really down in Los Angeles and then come back against the Lions. I understand why people without the full context just see a Schaefter tweet and they go, what are they hiding?

But, you know, it's really gotten kind of exhausting with this team over the years. Almost every time we've had something come up where the internet and the talking heads are going, what's going on there? Every time it's bogus. Quasi got his extension. KOC wasn't traded. Justin Jefferson wasn't traded. And these are all things that the people and AI wrote seven gazillion articles about,

and yet it was all for nothing. At least no one actually used their real fingers to type Justin Jefferson trade rumors. They just had bots do it because how stupid was that. And yet that was a thing for months and months and months. Where are they going to trade Justin Jefferson? They were never going to, it's the same way with, you know, maybe there was some talk about the general manager, but always the almost obvious answers seemed like the right one. and they were definitely not trading away Kevin O'Connell.

So there's been a bunch of micro versions of that over. I mean, the, what is the, what are people not telling you in Minnesota about J.J. McCarthy? It's like, oh, I don't know. Like, right? I mean, that whole thing, as in, again, the most obvious answer was they drafted him 10th overall. And they designed the entire offseason around the idea of having the 10th overall pick. And then they went with him. it's it's not now whether that's going to work out for them or not is still something to be

determined and the way that sam darnold is playing is not looking at it making it look great but it was the plan all along if they thought darnold when they signed him was their franchise quarterback it wouldn't have been to ten million dollars and one year it would have been a longer term contract than that and if you think that they should have gotten rogers well maybe but if they were three and three maybe even four and two too and felt this flawed with Aaron Rogers, would you feel like Super Bowl is around the corner? Do you feel like the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl and kind of similar teams? Not really, right?

So the most obvious answer for why they stuck with McCarthy was right there in front of you, and yet we got all sorts of what's really going on behind the scene. So I really don't think that there's anything nefarious going on with J.J. McCarthy, other than, I mean, we've been told all of it. And yes, you know, I do. talk to folks outside of just what we're told in press conferences, believe it or not. And, you know, the swelling for McCarthy's ankle, not being 100% initially thinking he would be back faster, like all that stuff is also what I've been told.

So look, the season is still in front of them. It's just this Thursday, it's probably not going to feel like the real season starting. When they face Detroit, assuming McCarthy is back, that will be the unofficial official start restart of the season you know how like in a daytona 500 you know they're going around going around here comes the storm clouds and now everybody has to pull into their pit stop and sit there and wait through the rain uh when are we going to get back to racing and then all right here comes the big restart that's what detroit's going to feel like in week nine assuming that mccarthy is good to go so you know i did feel like a lot of people already at three and three we're bailing

on the season, it's over, McCarthy's a bus, to fire the coach, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I really feel like getting through this week and then McCarthy coming back changes everything. Does it change who they really are in terms of record-wise and where they're going to finish? Probably not. This is probably who they're going to be the rest of the way. Disappointing loss followed by a decent win. Maybe there's a great win in there. Maybe there's a horrific loss in there. That's probably how it's going to be the rest of the way. But if they're doing that with McCarthy, it feels so much different. That's the point.

Here is your fan dual question of the day. And then I'll get to your comments. And in 25 minutes, Mani Hill and Brian Murphy for the round table. The fan dual question of the day is the Vikings dropped to plus 1,700 to win the NFC North. The bears are ahead of them at plus 1,000. Are you buying right now that the Vikings will finish behind the Chicago Bears who pulled off a pretty decided victory against Spencer Rattler, the Internet's darling, and Caleb Williams. So there you have it.

All right. Let's get into your questions and comments. Let's see. Deschante says when the plays are open, I can't say KOC is a bad play caller. Well, the thing about judging a play caller, one is doing it off of TV's very hard because you can't see the whole play. You see the quarterback and then people run out of the screen and then the the ball gets released and then you go, well, bad play call. And that's why you do have to look really at the All-22 tape to get a sense for the plays.

But I think that what ends up happening is, like, think about Nick Siriani, right? Now, Nick Siriani gets slaughtered all the time as a head coach in Philadelphia, I think, which is the nature of the beast of being the head coach of Philadelphia, because they're crazy. And that they're always relevant and they're always in the news. And so every mistake that Nick Siriani makes, you know, he is really, you know, scrutinized for. Can we look up right now real quick what Nick Siriani's career record as a coach is? Let's just take a little look-see about Nick Siriana. I'm just going to make a point here.

Nick Siriani is 53 and 22 with a Super Bowl victory and a Super Bowl appearance. And if you read the interwebs, you would think this guy sucks. You would think he has no idea what he's doing. He's just this fool over on the sideline who's crying at the Super Bowl and fighting with a security guy or whatever. He's 53 and 22. He's got two Super Bowl appearances and a Super Bowl win. Do you think he's a moron?

Like, no. But what happens is when coaches aren't perfect, and this was Andy Reid for a long time in Philly, when coaches aren't perfect and we watch them all the time. Philly's games are on national TV every time. So Siriani makes a mistake. Uh-oh. Jamir Gibbs is going to go to the house and it's 14-0-0 lions.

Woo. Okay. Bejohn Robinson and Jamir Gibbs have certainly made their case for drafting running backs. Anyway, the point about Andy Reid, Nick Siriani is when we focus so much and we see so much, we start to pick out every single mistake and nitpick away and nitpick away and then we say, well, this guy must be a bad coach. And they're like, oh, wait, he's 53 and 22 with a Super Bowl. So he's probably not.

And I think the same thing goes for KOC, not that he's on the level of being that record in the Super Bowl. But as far as, is he perfect? Do all of his play calls work all the time? No. Are there times where I have said in the past, stick with the run? Or, hey, you don't need to do that trick play. or when you get into the red zone,

like maybe just second and one, smash it forward with Jordan Mason. I don't know, right? Or I've wondered, like you guys have, is it harder than it needs to be on the offensive line? Is it harder than it needs to be on the quarterback? I mean, there's a play yesterday where there's three guys running routes and motions and doing all this stuff.

And Wentz just doesn't see it and get sacked. and you go, was there something a little simpler available? But then you look at the end of the day and there's open receivers, there's plays to be made. The play call, even against that blitz where he threw the, or well, simulated pressure, where he threw the pick six, Jefferson is about to be wide open on that play. One more click, one more second in the pocket,

and he's run into space and it's a 20-yard game. Is it a good play call? I mean, it's a fine play call. it's just that your center has to block for more than a third of a second and your quarterback needs to just take the sack as opposed to throwing it right to the outside linebacker, but that's that's football kind of always and forever. I think the biggest sample would tell us that there's imperfections and it hasn't been flawless, but the production from the quarterbacks has overall been good and that he could

certainly get receivers open. How open was Jordan Addison yesterday? and some of it on deep routes down the field. We've loved the quick game and all that. But some of it's deep and it's wide open and you're making plays. I mean, you got to, like, somebody's got to make a play in the red zone and finish that stuff off. Like, I don't know. What more can you do, really, right?

You can't throw it for them. So, or you can't even intentionally ground it for him in that case. CJ Ham's wide open. I mean, that's a ham touchdown. If you just fling it to the flat, which I assume was an option on the play. So, you know, it's kind of a weekly thing. in football. It's one of the reasons football's great is that we can pick apart that sort of stuff and I wouldn't have called that play or I wouldn't have gone for it there. It is truly what makes

football an awesome, awesome sport. But, you know, I think that they have good enough play calling from Kevin O'Connell to win a lot of games because we've seen them do it. So if they're not doing it, if they're not producing on offense, it's probably more of the quarterback play, which it certainly was, it certainly was against the Philadelphia Eagles. I mean, we talk about PFF grades a lot. Maybe we should do a bit. Like, do I agree with this PFF grade or no? And I'll tell you, like Carson Wentz's, I think was like a 40.

And the answer would be, yes, I do agree with it. Yeah, 45. Yep. Yep, I do agree with it. That's about the type of performance that they got yesterday with just huge mistakes, missed open throws. um there's not a whole eye you can do about that t j hawkins is wide open just get him the football don't make him dive for it don't make the ref have to make a call there so uh anyway it often comes down to whether you're a genius play call or not often comes down to whether your quarterback can

execute uh let's see sorry if i pronounce this wrong alam alimida alum can you answer why wence is starting next week well it's it's this week that's the trouble is i think if it was next week, if it was next Sunday against the Los Angeles Chargers, then they would go out and hire the best ankle specialist in the United States of America to get his butt in here and get him to as close to 100% as you could get J.J. McCarthy. But you have one practice, one, and it might not even be a real, like, hardcore practice. One practice, when he hasn't practiced almost at all for weeks and then go play on Thursday, it's just like, a lot. So I also don't know that he's not playing on Thursday. It's possible that he is that KOC could

come out tomorrow and that'll be one heck of a podcast if they do. I'll enjoy that podcast if they do talking about, you know, J.J. McCarthy starting. So we don't know that for sure. I just think it's very unlikely that McCarthy will be the starter because just you don't have time to really implement a game plan. You almost have to go with your base type of stuff when you're playing on Thursday night football. And that's why we see so much ugly type of performance on Thursday night. Oh, man. Mike Evans just hit the ground super hard. It does not look very, looks like a concussion for him. It doesn't look good at all. Ooh, geez, he's such a great player. That is so tough. They've had so many guys injured this year. And that's, I think the second

time he's been hurt. That's really tough. So the point is that it's really just about the circumstance. I think if it was next Sunday, he would be starting. But that's really the only reason why. Sean says really hard to observe that Wentz missed open receivers a bunch of times and then say that he should have run the ball. Well, I mean, I don't think that O'Connell needed to run the ball more yesterday than he did.

And they weren't having a ton of success with it. 3.8 yards per carry. the run game was not really driving them. And here's the other problem. And this is the problem in general with how they've played against Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and against the Philadelphia Eagles is that they've played from behind the whole game. These losses were real, legit losses. Like you get behind and you're behind the whole game.

And then you're desperately hoping that your backup quarterback can go win you a game by throwing his way back into it. That's not how this was supposed to. go and that's why I was talking about how this isn't what it was supposed to be that that was my column for this morning purple insider dot football is like they were supposed to be able to win a game against philadelphia by grinding it out keeping possession getting the defense to get some huge stops and right away it's seven to nothing on the first drive you know converting a big play downfield on a mismatch and then it's a pick six and it's 14 to three and like that's not how

this team is meant to play. They're not meant to play 14 to 3 and then have the quarterback come back and win it. They don't have the quarterback for it right now. And I don't know that J.J. McCarthy will be that quarterback either. So yeah, you could say, hey, run, run, run. You should run more and everything. The passing game was working to get them to the red zone, by the way. So I don't know.

But you can't really run. If you look at that win probability chart, I looked at the win probability chart after the game, there are no plays. that the Vikings had yesterday where they had more than a 50% chance to win. They were never in a position to win according to the win probability chances. You can't really sit there and ground and pound and throw a bunch of short passes in that case. You have to take risks. You have to put the game on the shoulders of the quarterback.

And if it's Carson Wentz, there's just a lot to ask. KFT says KOC may feel that McCarthy will benefit. being totally healthy in his first year playing. If he were a two-year veteran, he would be playing already. Well, you see that the issue with that KFT is that you're using your brain. What you're supposed to do is log on to the internet and shut your brain off and just yell what everyone else yells. That's your mistake, KFT.

Don't be using that nugget of yours. I mean, it's just been a little ludicrous, right? Is it a good idea to play an inexperienced quarterback at less than 100%? Probably not. it's just probably not and people are comparing it to Bryce out well Bryce Young's been starting in the league for three years and oh well he's week to week all right well good luck if they bring him back with a an injured ankle and Bryce Young's not really a scrambler he's kind of a playmaker it's not really a scrambler

but why would it make any sense on a short week to bring him back if he hasn't practiced and isn't 100% when he's starting his third game ever I wouldn't think this was a good idea for anybody in the position that they're in if they had this little experience like J.J. McCarthy did. Now, if he was coming off the best two games in NFL history to start a career and threw for 600 yards and eight touchdowns and then he got the ankle injury, yeah, you'd be more willing to push him back out there. But when there already were some issues that you're trying to work your way through in practice and resolve, then is it a good idea to bring

him back in when he can't do that stuff at the, at 100 percent? And the other thing is, too, that you get an extra practice before Detroit, you get a little extra time here. I mean, that just makes sense with this being the time to do it. And if he hadn't even told us, now I might buy it a little bit more of like soft benching, if he hadn't come out and told us that there was additional swelling and he's not at 100%. And you could say, well, what if he's lying about that? Well, you know, I've also confirmed that as well.

But like, look, if it was a soft bench, I don't know if he's playing along, right? Is he going to go to the podium and be like, yes, yes, coach told me that I'm less than 100%. Probably not, right? Like he would probably be like, but he wants to play, right? That's so anyway. Well, I mean, you can take the facts and, you know, make them whatever you want. So here's the rule, by the way, for Cody who says chaos, he's a bad play caller.

You have to tell me why. this is the problem with people who say bad play caller you have to tell me why if you don't give me specifics i'm not going to bother with your comment it just doesn't mean anything it's like i'm seven feet tall i don't have to back it up i'm just seven feet tall is it true no but it doesn't matter i'm just saying it i'm seven feet tall it's like the same thing like it's bad play caller i'm just saying it like you need to have a reason we work in specifics on this show it's a long show. It's two hours long. So, let's see. Marauder, why would you want JJ versus the Lions without a warm up against the Chargers? Is it a good way to warm up with no time to practice?

No time to implement a game plan. I don't think so. They might agree with you. They might agree with you. A warm up against the Chargers, though. I don't know about that. I mean, that's still, they've been struggling they have been struggling but you know i don't know that the chargers are a super easy opponent and i think there will be a lot of chargers fans there at the game since they've become a more relevant franchise uh red 854 lava fires that's a heck of a name uh it's all kos he does is asked too much of j jay guy can't run the ball uh well look he's had two games and i to tell you the truth, don't think against Atlanta or Chicago, they asked too much of J.J. McCarthy. They won one of the games. He played poorly in the other game. And you're going

to have to, in what way did they ask him to do too much? Because they were right there in the goal line. He fumbled. He gets stripsacked. He threw an interception on a wide open out route. Like, I don't know, man. It's usually all that happens with play calling complaints is just you look at the results. And if they're not what you want, you say the guy did all the things wrong. and that's what we do in football. That's just what we do. But we try to be better than that on this show. Zumer Kev or Zumer K.O. now.

I guess you've changed it. Am I overreacting to say, there you go. I forgot that I even threw that out there, the overreacting. So thank you for bringing me back. Am I overreacting to say K.O. is under the most pressure he's ever had to face as a head coach. Now, that is a very good and reasonable question. Zumer K.L. I think the answer is easily, easily, yes, 100% yes for a few different reasons. Number one is I think that we all agreed that when they got here, it was a long journey.

And you know how I like to use kind of objective measures for things, whether it's fan duels, numbers or, you know, the, hey, this other person who has nothing to do with this situation said X, Y, or Z, you know, Mike Clay, trying to project their rosters and things like that or make projections and stuff like that. When Kevin O'Connell was hired, NFL.com did a ranking of, like, who has the best roster that they're inheriting, the best situation. And I think there were 10 coaches. I'm going to ballpark this.

I think there were 10 or 11 coaches. And the K.O. hire was maybe seventh on that list. And they talked about like uncertainty, a quarterback, older roster that hasn't been able to win anything and right and we would all agree that it wasn't the easiest situation to take over they went 13 games they don't get it done in the playoffs and then we also i think all agree it's a good idea to move on from delvin cook eric kendricks adam thielan like all those guys right those expensive older players move on from them reset the salary cap you're probably going to have a tough year and they did and they drafted a quarterback because of it and then i think we all agreed that the

made a lot of sense to draft a quarterback, spend the money in free agency, and then go forward, right? Sam Darnold throws a wrinkle in that by being awesome, but, you know, they hadn't set up their salary cap for a $40 million quarterback. I think they still could have done it if they needed to, but that was never the plan. So then you're going forward the plan. But once you draft the quarterback, that's where the heat gets turned up. Because through this entire journey to this point. It was, hey, in the future, this is the thing that's going to happen, that thing that's worked for so many franchises, including Philadelphia. This is going to happen. Just wait. That's going to happen. Hey, 14 and 3 is great, but hey, yeah, the next year. Now, that's where

it's really going to be big for this team, right? The next two years, that window, that Super Bowl window, I think it was Jeremy Fowler at the beginning of the season or off season, said that they view it as a three-year Super Bowl window. Okay, well, the coach with no playoff wins, who has gotten the benefit of the doubt very reasonably so for winning 14 games, that ain't easy. Not too many teams are doing that, and sometimes we're like, oh, well, they lost in the playoff, so they're schmucks anyway, but I mean, my goodness, look how hard it is to win 10 games in the NFL, much less 14.

So, you know, the 13 win season, the 14 win season, it's really good coaching. the culture's changed it's turned around it's a place where players want to be and we saw that this offseason and all that stuff is wonderful but at the end of the day what you end up with is if this quarterback you drafted doesn't work out then you better figure out an answer really fast because it's not Carson Wentz again all credit and respect to Carson Wentz as a journeyman backup who's gone two and two just like I said just like I said when they signed him. I said, if you missed JJ for four games, he could go two and two and like I made it happen out of nowhere. There it is. Your journeyman backup. It's always been my

standard and he did it. So it wasn't pretty, but he got to two and two. Anyway, going back to what you said, does he have the most pressure? I mean, that he's faced so far, absolutely, because he hasn't won a playoff game yet. And the most valuable merchandise at quarterback has played two games in how many months since he left college. He left college. There's that website that will calculate this for you. Somebody log on to that. He left college in January of 2024.

It is October 20th, 2025. He's played two games. That's for somebody that you're really hitching your wagon to, that's not what you expect it to. happen so when you hit your wagon to somebody well that there's a reason we say that right is because it's which way that goes is going to dictate how we feel about Kevin O'Connell and the other thing is too that man when you look at the Wilf's and how much money they spent they're they're not into excuses and we remember that from 2023 when we asked Mark Wilf I think it was Kevin Seifert

and I was sitting at the table when he asked Mark Wilf like hey you know but you had to play backup up quarterback so do you kind of grade on a curve and mark willful's like no we expect to be in the playoffs they expect to be in the playoffs every year so if you go seven and ten and the valuable merchandise doesn't play well hey uh i'm not into saying hot sea fire this guy for that's just not my thing um i think when you with zimmer it got to a point where it was very clear what was going to happen but um you know like trying to look oh hey if this this this this this happens he'll get fire. Well, let's not even go there yet, but the pressure, it ramps up if that happens. So it definitely, it definitely ramps up. And I would totally agree that you're right.

Let's see. Hold on. Let me get my computer screen back right. Joe says they would have won yesterday if they ran the ball. going to have to be more specific than that. What play were they supposed to run the ball? I mean, like, is second and one at the goal line, I think, would probably be the one and then they get the holding call. That's the one, okay, that one I could go for. But I think that's, it's become cliche. Somebody said, and I lost the comment about overreacting to say he's like as stubborn

as Zimmer. No, I don't think so. But, you know, I do think you have to have a better running game and you have to play from ahead to run. hunter says expectations of change and that's not an overreaction yeah i agree with that i agree with that uh brand says i was very much against resigning darnold and there's still not a super bowl team with him but it was the wrong move to move on from him yeah i mean so yeah here's here's the thing about like the darnold resigning is i liked the way that dan graziano put it uh dan graziano

basically said, like, as of right now, yeah, it definitely looks like you should have just brought back Sam Darnold. Then you're probably, at worst, you're probably four and two. You might even be five and one because tell me Atlanta wasn't winnable. The way the defense played, yeah, they got ran against, but it wasn't like they were dominated. Yesterday was winnable. Don't throw a pick six. Not that Darnold doesn't ever have his downs, but Pittsburgh was winnable. So maybe you're four and two. If he's back and you can find the money when you look at the roster and who's underperformed for people that they spent the money on. But we're just not, we're just not there yet for me. We're not at that point. It's crossed my mind. I have probably brought it up a little bit

about how good Sam Darnold has played. But I don't think that we're at the point where we could say for sure because we've got to see J.J. McCarthy on the field. If J.J. McCarthy plays and plays really well in the second half of the season, it will feel quite a bit different. But I also think, too, that two things can be true. I can totally understand why they went the way they did because it was the direction I've been banging the table for forever, right? But also, the list of quarterbacks who have thrown for 4,000 yards, 1, 12 or more games, and 35 touchdowns is pretty slim.

Like, did we think, did we really think that it was just, just KOC, I mean, just Jefferson, as if there aren't other good receivers in the league. There's a couple playing tonight. I mean, I think when a quarterback rises to a certain level, we could probably say that they're going to be really good. I guess what they thought was the flaws in Darnold were probably too much to not have an unbelievable roster. That may have been true. And then this year, a lot of teams are mediocre and maybe that would change. So, you know, red zone play call 16 pass five run.

Yeah, that's what I mentioned is that there were certainly some times in the red zone where they could have run the ball. And they decided to pass. So, okay, that's a specific, that's a specific issue with the play calling. Although they throw a touchdown. There's a bad, you know, I don't know. There's so many opportunities there for whence to throw a touchdown. but maybe maybe if they just ran every time that it would have been different. I don't know.

I thought the quarterback needed to make the plays that were just right there. So why spend capital to get nasty in the trenches and not run the ball? I mean, in part because you're losing all the time. I mean, that's really been the main issue. When they were winning, they ran the ball a lot. And I think that we can't just continue to go back time and time and time again. say run more, run more, run more, run more, run more, run more, run more. It's like, oh, okay.

And the bad play calling in the red zone, it's like when you have guys wide open, I just don't know, like, you were supposed to do something different. But that, again, that's always the thing with the play calling is, if it didn't work, you should have done something different, which I guess, you know, it's hard to disprove. Anyway, the, uh, fan duel question of the day. I'm not saying you're wrong about running more in the red zone. I've, when you get to second and one, this is what you got, Jordan Mason for run the ball that I totally agree with in that sequence.

In the other ones, okay, red zone, red zone is the 20 yard line. I mean, maybe you could just run it every time and get into the end zone. I didn't think they were running that successfully. So if we were talking about, and they did run at the one yard line or the three yard line and they got Jordan Mason in, but if we're just cutting it off at the 20, like that seems like a little bit of not quite fair because that's not an area where anybody just runs every play maybe inside the 10. Let's see. Fandul question of the day before we get to Manny Hill and Brian Murphy is the Vikings dropped a plus 1,700 to win the NFC North. The bears are ahead

of them at plus 1,000. Are you buying right now that the bears will finish ahead of the Vikings, I think especially the way that the Lions are playing right now? The Lions still the team to beat. Green Bay is flawed, but they've found ways to win, and they are significantly ahead. So you're not even in the conversation, I don't think, with Green Bay or Detroit. But what about Chicago? That is just gotten quite interesting. So, all right, let's change gears here. And it, as always takes a second, but I'll get Brian Murphy and Mani Hill in there.

So make sure you answer that question of the day. I think that the bears have kind of lucked out with their recent schedule and that they will probably face some regression. But I also think that what we've seen from Ben Johnson is that he's no fool and that he can coach.