Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Bears podcaster Lorin Cox talks about what Chicago would want the Vikings to do at QB

Episode Date: February 17, 2024

Matthew Coller poses the question to Bears podcaster Lorin Cox: What would the Bears want the Vikings to do this offseason? Plus, does he think Justin Fields being traded is a mistake? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar here and returning to the show from the Locked on Bears podcast, Lauren Cox. Lauren, how's your life? Everybody calm talking about the Chicago Bears? Just having very normal off-season football discussions. Nobody getting too upset about any quarterback positions. Just very chill for you, I bet. That's kind of how of how it seems yeah just a lot of tumbleweed rolling through town

nothing too serious happening no uh it's it's full-blown quarterback mania and it feels like the offseason has been going on for four months and you look up and it's still mid of february and i'm like oh we still have two or another month and a half until the NFL draft. We're not going to survive. The city is going to be burned down. I think that from my perspective, Vikings fans are kind of side-eyeing what's going on in Chicago. And we'll talk about this a little later because I want to know what Bears fans would want the Vikings to do.

And we could talk about what Vikings fans would want the Bears to do. But why don't you just tell me where you stand on the Justin Fields versus drafting Caleb Williams situation? Yeah, it's becoming very clear that what the Chicago Bears are going to do, almost certainly not, I guess, not locked in, but almost certainly they're going to draft Caleb Williams and they're going to trade Justin Fields. That's the inevitability that everyone is working towards there's still a large contingency of Bears fans that are holding on to the Justin Fields hope and I totally get it like I don't think Justin Fields is like a bad quarterback or someone that you know is terrible and they have to move on from this offseason because the only reason we're even having this conversation is because the Bears have the number one overall pick pick if they just had the ninth overall pick

there's no discussion about trading justin fields there's still discussion about drafting a quarterback perhaps at nine or somewhere else in the draft but there's no discussion of yeah trade field to get this guy out of here we don't want him so that's what makes it such a interesting and you know worthwhile debates and worthwhile for the first like week and not the first like month but yeah i i'm i'm fully there i think caleb williams is the best option for this team and that i mean as much as i'd love to keep both quarterbacks and maybe even sit caleb for a little while and let justin be the bridge realistically probably not going to happen even though adam shepter said they've they've had conversations about it but it's not gonna happen they're gonna trade fields to the highest bidder

and take caleb and move forward well one thing i would say for you is uh embrace it because you don't always get something this hot for your podcast to talk about so you just have to lean into this but here's the question that keeps coming to mind for me now i've seen a good amount of justin fields in my day and i agree with you i think that he is a pretty good quarterback. And were he to go to the Pittsburgh Steelers, for example, I think there's a decent chance that he would play better than he's ever played. Or, you know, I guess Pittsburgh doesn't always have the best offensive coordinator situations, but maybe Atlanta with Zach Robinson as their new offensive coordinator, someone who will lean into his skills a little bit better,

maybe multiple weapons as opposed to just one good wide receiver, et cetera, et cetera. So I think he can be better than he's been, as we've seen from other quarterbacks like Geno Smith, like Ryan Tannehill. But the thing about Geno Smith and Ryan Tannehill as comparables is that they're both just pretty good and not great. And I don't know how you could watch the accumulation of his career so far in Chicago and say, no, we're good. We're set.

We're going to win a championship with this quarterback. Many quarterbacks along the way have developed over the years. Steve Young was very bad as a Tampa Bay Buccaneer. But more often than not, guys are who they are after about three years, and we have to reach back to find the examples. How would anyone argue that this would be the right direction to take this quarterback who has, I think, a lot of talents but a lot of flaws, as opposed to one who's going to be on a rookie contract who is talked about as one of the best prospects we've seen since Andrew Luck.

So I think there's at least some universal agreement that the Bears mishandled Justin Fields' first three years, two and a half, three years, give or take. Not at all times, but for the majority of that time that, for whatever reason, the first coaching staff, and then year two, he's in roster rebuild mode, so he's got nothing around him. And then the offense and then the offensive staff over time didn't use him well. Like, and because it's sort of like a more or less accepted effect that like, yes, things were not ideal for fields along the way that things, if things were different for him moving forward,

that you could unlock everything and that he would be, you know, that different quarterback after three seasons, or maybe not drastically different, but certainly the production and the, and the results would be, be drastically different and i i think there's some real merit to that i mean like you said you can see him going to pittsburgh or atlanta and having a better system in one of those teams and being something really valuable and like if caleb williams wasn't the alternative that's a valuable thing that i think the bears would be

happy to have like fields could still be in an alternate reality like one of the best quarterbacks in chicago bears history if you actually got you know the right offensive coordinator for him and then some good weapons and stuff but unfortunately it's that that better option is sitting right there like i i keep coming back to with fields where it's like you say well if you put him in a good offense with good receivers and a good line he can be really good well yeah that's true for a lot of quarterbacks you know you mentioned geno smith and ryan tannehill but i think with justin he's got he's got because he's got sort of the special skill set with his legs and can make really impressive throws with his arm it is like yes he needs he needs that supporting cast to

unlock it but he has that higher ceiling once you get that supporting cast like the supporting cast can support 25 different quarterbacks in the nfl but like he can go a step higher than a lot of those other guys once he gets all that stuff he just can't get up there unless he has all that stuff. And that's only so volatile as a quarterback. You can only sustain so much of that around him as he gets to the end of his rookie contract and needs to be paid. And then it's hard to do that. And that's why you end up moving on.

Well, and also I have a name for this on the show. It's called imagination land where we have to to if you have to imagine a situation where the quarterback is good then the quarterback probably is not that good and we've gone through that with kirk cousins for a long time well imagine if he had an offensive line well imagine if he had had a better defense during that season imagine imagine imagine and as you mentioned you know once you have to pay that quarterback, it becomes harder to deal with that whack-a-mole game that you have to play where you lose something and can't replace it because you're paying your quarterback. And I mean, I thought it was very telling that Mahomes

this year is the first quarterback to win as being the highest cap hit in the league. That just tells you how hard it is. And if you're not Rogers and you're not Mahomes being those highest paid guys, it's really, really difficult to work around. So in my mind, that just doesn't work. But I also think too, that we love to do this with quarterbacks where we say, gosh, if he would just do this, then it would just be different. But I also think that fields has some pretty fatal flaws. And one of them is being real slow when it comes to identifying getting the football out taking hits taking sacks and i've seen him do this against the vikings time and time again so for every wow play whoa did you see him run for 60 yards did

you see that dime that he dropped 30 yards down the field there's the he drops back and you go okay you should see it why aren't you throwing it what is and you're sacked and and i don't know that that is something that just changes because you have a better wide receiver or two i think the idea is that it changes because you have a better offensive coordinator and that being but but again it's it's still in imagination land i agree that's great, that's a great device. But it looks like with fields this past season, we don't have to get too into the weeds here, but like there were a lot of times you're right.

Like he's going through his progression. He's like looking at a receiver who you think is open and then he moves on to the next one and then he is sacked. And there was this feeling like he was being coached to don't make a mistake. Don't turn the ball over, you know, be safe, be safe. And then you can always scramble if you need to, but, but don't, you know, don't force it. And then over the last, you know, three or safe and then you can always scramble if you need to but but don't you know don't force it and then over the last you know three or four or five games of the season where it was pretty clear like okay you're out of the playoffs and you're

probably on your way out of chicago and this offensive quarter is probably going to be fired he played with kind of a looseness to him and a confidence where he was ripping it into some of those windows and you're like oh that there it is like it's not it's not purely imagination it wasn't happening he wasn't the perfect quarterback and wasn't like everything was fixed but it was like ah it is still in there like i can i found this corner of the treasure map like i x marks the spot there it is we can go find it but then you know you could go on that treasure hunt forever and not end up actually getting there so this is always a tough one for me because like how much is a coach's fault? How much is a system's fault? And I don't think that Luke Getzey was good at his job really

at all. So there is that. But I also think that Eric Biennemi was everybody's favorite assistant coach and then went to Washington and his quarterback got sacked all the time. And now he's not everybody's favorite coach. It's like a lot of these things are reverse engineered based on, Hey, Nate Hackett is a brilliant offensive mind when he's Aaron Rogers, offensive coordinator. And then he's not Josh McDaniels is magical when Tom Brady's his quarterback. And then he's not like this is, and that's not to downplay that systems matter and coaching matters. It's just that if your quarterback is great.

So this is me saying the field is not great, that he's just okay. In my mind, if your quarterback is great, then Luke gets, he is getting a head coaching job right now, but instead your quarterback's just okay. So that means you get rid of him and look for somebody who's great. I mean, I think, you know, and also, Hey, I need to circle back on this joke. You are a few completions away from being the best quarterback in bears history, but we shouldn't let that, we should not let that shape how we look at this, right? Because Chicago should be aiming to try to win a championship. Can you win a championship with a expensive Justin Fields, probably there's a small window

for that. But if he doesn't get you there in that small window, maybe it's two or three years where you've got the players you've used the cap space on and he's not super expensive yet. But if you don't get there, then you will have passed up on Caleb Williams, this marvelous prospect who would have been super cheap for you to stick with a guy that we had a three year sample on of being pretty mediocre well you know you i mean we make the jokes right about him being a couple completions away which i mean is there's actually a lot of truth to that but also like i think that that frames why there's such strong feelings about justin fields though right

like this is a franchise that has had nothing at quarterback for a long time or nothing sustainable at quarterback and there's this feeling like sure Caleb Williams looks great but he's not a sure thing I mean there's no such thing as a sure thing in the draft and there's legitimate flaws and concerns to have about Caleb I'm not enough for me to pass on him by any means but I think Bears fans look at it and say listen like Justin Fields is not, but like feels like maybe the best quarterback we've had in my life. I mean, not Jay Cutler, but in my lifetime, like he has the potential to be the best quarterback. And it's like not that Fields is a sure thing either, but it's the devil you know versus the potential devil you don't. It's like, well, you know, we can stick with Fields and like he's not going to be Patrick Mahomes ever.

And he's not going to be anything great but like he can be better than this city has had in a long time for perhaps a sustained success and it's like we've got it right here like this is a better quarterback than we've seen ever like let's just hold on to this because we know what this is and like it's not like this is Mitch Trubisky where it's like all right get this guy out of here like we're done with this it's like no he he could still be a quarterback so why are we going to give up on this this thing that we have that we know for a guy who could be in the next bust and then we're back without a quarterback so man wish we would still have justin fields like that's that's the fear down there because they're so

scarred from not having any quarterback that when there's one quarterback that shows them like a little bit of love it's like oh that's who i want let's keep that guy and let's don't need to get anything else this guy this guy is gonna do it this is the best thing we've ever had let's let's hold on to this and it's like well let's aim higher yeah and i think there are probably things in life that you would say are good enough and that's what you want to stick with and you don't want to take the risk of changing like a refrigerator it's good enough you know it works it's fine I think like, if we're talking about marriage between a team and a quarterback, I don't think that in life you would marry somebody because you were like, I don't know if I could find a better girlfriend than this. Like, I don't love her, but I don't

know. Like she's okay. That's not really the way you would approach that. Or at least I hope not. You would try to aim for a person who's the soulmate, right? So is Caleb Williams going to be their soulmate? To me, Caleb Williams is too good of a prospect, even if there's criticism, which there always will be, even if there's concern, which there always will be for every quarterback, even if he wants a piece of the team and he has, I don't know, whatever's going to come out that, yeah, we'll see if S2 test arrives at our doorstep again this year, but I'm guessing not. But Williams,

I think is too good of a prospect for too many years. He's been thought of this way for them to say, you know what? I think we're going to go with Jaden Daniels, or I think we're going to go with Drake May, but there is kind of this like how much do they love trading down one spot or two spots or something like that like it it you think it's totally completely locked in it has to be him i think the bears are gonna do their due diligence in the sense that like there's no advantage for them to say, yep, we will not listen to trade offers. We refuse untouchable. Don't call us. Like there's no,

there's nothing to gain from that there. I mean, I do think they're pretty well locked in that they, they've agreed that Caleb from a evaluation standpoint from an X as an O standpoint is the quarterback they want. And they just want to do, you know, medicals at the combine interviews of the combine,

really get comfortable with like him as, as the person, as the face of the franchise and all that stuff, just to kind of cross their T's and dot their I's. So between now and then, okay. If Washington wants to call and offer some crazy amount of draft picks to move up one spot, or if, you know, Denver or Atlanta or even Pittsburgh, I mean, if any of these teams that want a quarterback, probably not the Minnesota Vikings. I don't think the bears, I mean, as much as they did the trade-off for Justin Fields the other direction, I don't think the Bears will let a division rival go up to one to get that kind of quarterback. But listen, and you know, if Atlanta offers three first round picks and Kyle Pitts and, you know,

AJ Terrell and two second round picks, I mean, I don't think the Bears move off of it, but it doesn't hurt to at least listen. Like at the end of the day, if you think Caleb Williams can be Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, echelon type of quarterback, I don't think there is a combination of draft picks and players that you're allowed to trade under NFL rules that would be worth passing that. You know, I mean, just ask the Chiefs what it would take to trade for Patrick Mahomes or ask the Bengs what it would take to trade for patrick holmes or ask the boy the bangles what it would take to trade for joe burrow you cannot under nfl rules come up with a package that of picks you're allowed to trade and salary that you're allowed to trade i mean unless you traded your entire roster and all your draft picks of that team it's just

not it's not allowed and none of those teams would take those deals for those quarterbacks and so i think that's where the bears are where it's like if you can really somehow wow us with an offer we'd consider it because maybe they think 70 chance c Caleb Williams is Joe Burrow. Okay. And you got to make it worth our while to give up on that 70% chance that, and trust that 30% of the time we're wrong. And that this package of picks will be worth it with the 30% odds, like maybe, but I don't think there's really a package out there that exists. Folks. Have you ever heard of test driving a phone network? I did not make this up. It is an actual thing.

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the app to try it out. I know. Great sound effects there. Test drive U.S. Cellular's award-winning network for 30 days. U.S. Cellular built for us. Terms apply. Awards based on open signal independent data visit us cellular.com for details the only justin fields argument that i could come up with was actually because of how random our quarterback evaluations can be whether they hit or not so if you were to keep

justin fields and instead of drafting kayla williams you drafted marvin harrison and then at the ninth pick you took jj mccarthy everyone would think you were a complete fool on that day but what are the odds difference really between this guy hitting versus that guy hitting. And this is a more of a philosophical idea because I sort of tossed this out to somebody at one point is like, all right, but let me go through quarterbacks and show you how the order of quarterbacks don't often turn out to be who is the best. I mean, even just recently, you know, Patrick Mahomes is not the top quarterback. Lamar Jackson isn't even close. Josh Allen isn't even close.

And so you could take me through, well, this guy's flawed, and this guy doesn't have as good enough tools, and et cetera, et cetera. But then all the examples through history say none of us really know what we're talking about. But I also think there's got to be this feeling for Ryan Poles that if I pass up on Caleb Williams under any circumstances regardless of any concerns that I have or any logic like that that if he turns out to be one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL I am fired I am a fool I am a laughingstock in Chicago forever you would almost rather fail with Calebaleb williams because you took your shot at greatness than do anything else i think there's a ton of pressure on him for this and i am interested in

him and specifically in your thoughts on polls because what a wild ride it's been for the ryan polls experience his first trade for chase clay pools an atrocity and then all of a sudden it's like the undertaker meme where he just like trades for Montez sweat. Everything is suddenly different. They have tons of cap space. They've got the top draft pick. You look like a genius for not taking Bryce young at the top. Like all of a sudden it's all come like, uh, you know, in his way, everything is, uh, if you're a Simpsons fan, everything's coming up Milhouse for Ryan Poles at this moment. And I think that's a really fascinating turn because I thought he was getting

fired as soon as Kevin Warren took over that team. And now it feels like he might be everybody's favorite GM if this thing works out. My cousin has that Milhouse picture of Milhouse with those words tattooed on his thigh. And it's one of my favorite tattoos I've ever seen in my entire life. But no. So Ryan Polis is very calculated and and and it's it's paid off in the long run. Right. So the Chase Claypool thing was was very calculated. Don't be wrong. Not a good trade. That's not the point I'm coming across here, but he made the Chase Claypool trade at that point as an insurance policy going into that offseason because he looked at the free agent market at wide receiver and said, yikes, I don't like any of these guys. I don't feel like I'm going to be able to get, I'm not going to have an opportunity to add an impact wide receiver for my team at that time, or at least not something that was, you know, surefire. They ended up getting DJ Moore, but that wasn't something he anticipated at the trade deadlines. He was like, let me trade now to get a wide receiver for my quarterback.

Cause I'm not going to be, I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to get one in the off season. So at least I have this in my back pocket in case I don't get a DJ Moore via trade from the Carolina Panthers. And so, well, it didn't work out. Like it felt like the logic was there, right? The process, the results were bad, but the process was better. Where it was like, all right,

let me take a chance on a receiver that I can get now. And I obviously give up too much and it's, it becomes a problem, but like, at least it kind of understand like, okay, he was, his head was in the right place. It wasn't just like a desperation splash, like gotta go get, you know, try and boost this team right now. It was supposed to be like a replacement for a free agency. So, okay. I kind of get it there. And then, yeah, absolutely nails it with the trade down from the one overall pick. I mean, he's catching flack for not taking CJ Stroud.

I don't think that was the expectation that he would with the number one overall pick. But still, when you have the first pick in the draft and need a better quarterback and a better quarterback goes that you did not take, that's a knock on him as a general manager. But I don't think, to your point, like you can't have the number one overall pick two years in a row and pass on quarterbacks both times because one of these quarterbacks is going to be good. I mean, whether it's Caleb or Drake May or J.J. Daniels or J.J. McCarthy or Michael Panix or Bo Nix, like odds are at least one, probably a couple of these quarterbacks will prove to be pretty good quarterbacks. And so if you don't at least swing on one of them, and ideally the one that everyone thinks has the best chance, like you can't survive that as a general manager, especially if, you know, Justin Fields doesn't, if you keep fielding, he doesn't end up panning out there. But I like the point you said, and it's something I thought about a lot this off season.

Like people, we do this constant, like, okay, Caleb Williams or Justin Fields or Caleb Williams or Fields in a bunch of draft picks. But what if it's Caleb Williams or or fields in a bunch of draft picks but what if it's caleb williams or drake may in a bunch of draft picks i mean if washington would give you a couple picks to swap from one to two how much better is caleb williams and drake may i think he is better but like is to your point like it's so much a crapshoot even still and chances are that one of the quarterbacks not named caleb williams turns out to be really good and if you're ryan poles and you're really confident that,

Hey, actually Jane Daniels really looks like the quarterback that we want. Could you get a bunch of draft picks to trade down a little bit and still get your quarterback and kind of get the best of both worlds of, yeah, you're not getting Caleb, but you're getting the extra capital to build your team and the rookie that you like maybe better than the number one guy.

Like it's clearly like Caleb and are going to go that direction, but that's what makes me most nervous is that one of these other quarterbacks is going to be better. And there's a weird feeling where it's like, Ryan pulse has to take Caleb because he's the consensus guy. And if you think you're smarter than everyone else and take the other quarterback and get it wrong, then you're really screwed. But I can't help,

but feel like one of these other guys is going to be the option. And that long-term, the smartest thing would have been, or with a crystal ball to go back and say, man, if the bears just would have known that JJ McCarthy was the best quarterback in this draft, they could have traded down and had all the picks and got the best quarterback. But you know, how can you know what it's,

it's weirdly a hard spot for Ryan polls where it's like, you got to get the quarterback back, right? Because you have the number one overall pick, regardless of which quarterback it is. And, but yet you're being hamstrung to kind of hamstrung, but there's a lot of pressure to just take Caleb. And that if you took anybody else, you would look like a fool today. And that's, that's a surprisingly tough spot to be in.

And with the philosophical versus the realistic, I mean, if you had just drafted a quarterback, number one, and then after a year drafted another quarterback, then that probably gives you the best odds with, say, just their ninth pick because they wouldn't have traded up for number one. And you had on your team, Justin Fields, Bryce Young, and J.J. McCarthy, and you go, somebody figure it out. Now, that's a universe where we have to imagine because no team would ever do it, even though that position is so

incredibly important that you probably should do crazy stuff like that. It's just not something that the NFL is ready for. But as far as how they've set themselves up, like, yeah, one of the quarterbacks of the three that went and we'll see what happens with Anthony Richardson. I liked what I saw, but only for a couple of games, one of the quarterbacks worked out great. So it's like, yeah, you passed up on the, that one, but what if that wasn't their QB one, then he'd be fired at the moment. So it's as opposed to being set up to take a better prospect, I think by a country mile between Caleb Williams and Bryce young. And there were even questions about CJ Stroud. It just so happened that he's kind of a freak and was perfectly built for the NFL. And his team came

together quicker than they thought, has a really good offensive coordinator. Like a lot of things went into that, that maybe you couldn't have foreseen right away. So here's, so I'm going to tell you some, and then I want you to tell me the same thing, which is what I think Vikings fans would want the bears to do versus. And I want you to tell me with the Vikings off season, what you think bears fans would want the Vikings to do. I think that Vikings fans would love if they did not draft Caleb Williams, because one thing that Vikings fans have really enjoyed about Chicago is the hysterical attempts at quarterbacks and missing on them and picking up randos and having

guys that have to make the playoffs with like 12 touchdowns and 18 interceptions and you know all the Kyle Orton's the Rex Grossman's all that stuff and even Jake Cutler had a couple of good moments, but you could deal with that because he'd throw you a hilarious interception. I think Vikings fans have loved that. And they have not been afraid a single time that Justin Fields comes to town or that they go to soldier field to face Justin Fields. Caleb Williams might be the first time that any Viking fan would be terrified of a Bears quarterback ever in most people's lives. So I think as we're talking about this, the worst thing that Chicago could do for their opponents is to draft Caleb Williams. Would you agree with that?

Yeah. And that's, to me, that's always been the biggest sign of like, you should do it, right? Like no one wants the, all the other teams think, Hey, please don't do this. Please keep field. So it's like, that you know probably shouldn't do what the other teams want us to do we probably do what they don't want us to do and yes 100% like Caleb offers that kind of threat and fear in the opponent that oh they'll finally get the quarterback position right and that Justin Fields hasn't had a ton of success against the Minnesota Vikings and really anyone in the division except for the Detroit Lions They're the only team that he's somehow weirdly enough had, had success against them, even though they've been good. But

yeah, I, I see that a hundred percent, especially because the Justin Fields contract then become the thing where you become locked into that financially and it becomes maybe a Daniel Jones type situation in Chicago where they're really, really hamstrung trying to get out of it. Right. Yeah, exactly. And, uh, you know, I just think there's this in general, the fear would be anything elite because the one thing going for you in the NFC is when you look around, you go, okay, Jordan Love showed some signs. That's pretty scary for the Vikings. And Dak Prescott is a regular season God, but are you super, super terrified of him? No, because they generally fall apart in the playoffs. San Francisco is going to have more cap issues. Is Brock Purdy

going to keep it up? But there's no like Burrow, Allen, Mahomes, Stroud. And so you felt like it's manageable. If the NFC gets one, the guy's going to murder everybody because there's just no competition to the same level. It's like if Caleb Williams is as good as someone like Josh Allen or Joe Burrow within a year or two, and then you consider all the money that they can spend around him. And the fact that, you know, players will go to Chicago, they will sign there. And it's like, that's not good. That's not good.

Now, the downside is that he's terrible and that he's a complete bust and you know, whatever, but even that might lead to another high draft pick. And even though it will be another GM making that draft pick, that's a little bit of the fear as well, because like, even if the guy doesn't work out, it's still kind of can in the future, as you mentioned with like, did we mention like Kyler Murray at some point? No, maybe we didn't. But Josh Rosen, Kyler Murray kind of reminds me of that situation where I'm sure there were fans of Josh Rosen who thought they should stick with him. It was like, no, let's just move on because we've got this opportunity to draft something special. So that's what Vikings fans would be the most terrified of. What do you think the other side of it is? The Vikings have a decision here. They could trade up.

They can bring back Cousins. They can draft number 11 and see if McCarthy or Bo Nix is there and go forth after that. What do you think Bears fans are rooting for the Vikings to do? Yeah, it's tricky because Kirk Cousins is still a decent quarterback, right? This is not like, oh, sign Kirk Cousins because he's a bum and then the Vikings will be bad if they re-sign Kirk Cousins is still a decent quarterback, right? This is not like, oh, sign Kirk Cousins because he's a bum, and then the Vikings will be bad if they re-sign Kirk Cousins. So it's a weird spot to be like, no, sign that quarterback that has beaten the Bears a number of times. We want you to have that solid veteran quarterback

that's going to make the Minnesota Vikings a better team right now, even if maybe not as much in the long term. But I do think from a Bears perspective, Chicago is watching this quarterback market very closely on, okay, there's six or seven teams that need QBs and there are six or seven QBs available. And so Justin Fields needs to go to one of those teams and he's not going to

go to the Minnesota Vikings. So it would be nice if both the Vikings quarterback vacancy was filled and Kirk Cousins was taken off of the quarterback market. And those two things could happen at the same time so that the Vikings aren't taking another quarterback out of the pool that increases the demand for Justin Fields. And then another team's not signing Kirk Cousins that would reduce the demand for Justin Fields.

So that would be kind of the nice thing from a bears trade perspective. And then also I think financially, I look at the Vikings as, you know, not, they're not in a horrible spot salary cap wise, but one massive Kirk Cousins contract or one big short-term Kirk Cousins contract eats up most of that salary cap space. And you can create some more room by, you know, cutting some guys and restructuring contracts, but it doesn't leave a lot of money to resign a Daniel Hunter. I know Marcus Davenport hasn't been great for them, but he's, you know, they got a lot of free agents or some key free agents at key positions that

will require big contracts. And it doesn't feel like there's enough salary cap space to go around for all of them. And so if you could fill most of that or a lot of that with a bigger Kirk Cousins short-term deal, that would seem ideal. But at the same time, there's an alternate reality where they let Kirk Cousins walk, but they draft Bo Nix at 11 and he's terrible. And then the Vikings are bad for four seasons or three or four seasons as

they try and work through that. And compared to Kirk Cousins where the Vikings will be decent with Kirk Cousins this year. I mean, how good I'm not here to say whether that's seven wins, nine wins, 10 wins, whatever,

but like they'll give the bear, there'll be a real threat to the bears this season. If they re-sign Kirk Cousins, if they draft the rookie quarterback, let Kirk Cousins go and just roll with that rookie and he's not very good the vikings will be worse i mean they will not be a real threat to the bears throughout the course of that rookie contract in theory if that guy is is truly not very good and so that's where i'm torn on it a little bit where it's like i think i think kirk cousins because it

hampers them more long term and I'll take the long-term disruption for them with maybe there'll be better in the short term and harder for the bears. But I can certainly see the drafting the wrong quarterback would be, would be the better long-term thing for the bears, but it's, I can't sit here and say it today and say, ah, yes, just choose that bad quarterback for us, please. We really appreciate that. Like the decent chance that they draft that quarterback and he's good. And okay.

Then it's not the better alternative. So if the quarterback draft pick is kind of a coin flip or whatever, I guess I'd lean Kirk Cousins is what I want the Vikings to do, but I don't see it as like a hundred percent super clear and obvious, but I think it's, it's enough in the Kirk Cousins favor. Like I can hear arguments on both sides though. So thinking about it from a bears perspective, if the Vikings bring back Kirk Cousins, I think you know exactly where they're going to be in the mix, almost no matter what they do. And I was trying in an article to put together some crazy free agent plan where they get like Saquon Barkley and stuff and just go completely nuts in free agency to stack everything they can around Kirk Cousins and future be damned with the salary cap and all that.

And I still couldn't put together a great team without being totally absurd. If I counted out some of the franchise tag players like Antoine Winfield and Josh Allen, the edge rusher and so forth, like if you can't get those guys, there's almost not enough in free agency to make the Vikings a terrifying team within the next year or so. And so if you're Chicago, you're thinking, well, we're going for greatness. You're not going with Caleb Williams. You're going for greatness. You're not going for, Hey, we'll just be in the mix. Hopefully we can make the playoffs. And the terrifying thing for Chicago would be if the Vikings drafted Bo Nix or JJ McCarthy and the guy's good. And he is because

drafts work this way, just as good as your guy. And then, oh, by the way, they've got Jefferson, Addison, Hawkinson, two good tackles and an offensive head coach. And like, oh, not now we got a problem because they drafted the better quarterback. It's like, you know, exactly where that bar is going to be set that if things work out for the Vikings, they could be a double digit win team. It would have to go insane again with one score games for them to be more than that, but they're going to have their flaws. When they come to Chicago, you're going to say, this is a tough team to beat. But when it comes to the long-term race over the next three, four years, you're not going to say this is a team

that's going to be that tough to beat. I think you'd be looking much more at Detroit and green Bay as the teams where you're like, Oh man, Jordan loved the way he looked with those young receivers, the young roster. That's a problem Detroit with their young roster. And that's a problem, but the Vikings, they're going to be in the same spot. That's that's my issue with the idea of bringing back Cousins. It's not even about whether he's good or not. It's just about knowing exactly where that ceiling is. And also the fact that Kirk Cousins prime was now three, four years ago. And I don't know how you could see it actually getting better.

Could you at least see, though, like it's a great way to give a rookie quarterback behind him some time you know they're like okay like resign kirk cousins and try and cobble things together here but then still draft that quarterback and understand that like kirk you're here for a year or maybe two and then it's this guy's turn and that yes like maybe it's not the ideal long-term maybe it's not the ideal financial flexibility in terms of building up the roster right now, but at least like it gives you that kind of, I mean, bridges is I'm not a big fan of like the, the, the concept of bridge quarterback,

but it's that kind of thing where you can, you can kind of bake your cake and eat it too, and kind of get a little bit of the best of both worlds, but at the same time, then you're not really all in on winning now. And so you might not, you're barely going to make the playoffs or whatever, then you're not really all in on winning now and so you might not you're barely gonna make the playoffs or whatever then you're not really all in on the future either so how well are you setting up that rookie quarterback for success like is it kind of at a point where you just kind of have to eat your vegetables and say all right we're ripping the

bandit off here and being maybe a less good team in 2024 but at least it's with that long-term vision of have the future of the quarterback position in place and start to continue to invest around him as opposed to like investing in winning right now with Kirk. Yeah, for me, there's only two directions you could go. It's bring back Kirk and spend all your future cap space to bring in free agents, draft an edge rusher and hope the guy's great right away. And that's it. Or you

just draft a rookie and then take a slower approach and aim for 2025 as when you're going to be legitimately competitive because you can sign a bridge quarterback for 10 million bucks. Like what would be the difference between signing Gardner Minshew and having him win eight games and Kirk cousins and having him win nine games or 10 games. Not a whole lot. If you can't actually compete for a championship, I guess your owners get to brag that they went to the playoffs and got pummeled by a real team. I mean, like that's, that's not really to me, all that exciting of an idea because we've

just seen that play out over and over again. I think what it comes down to is we were talking about Ryan Poles and fear and the fear that you didn't draft Caleb Williams is the thing that's in part going to drive you to do it. And I'm sure they like him. But the thing that could drive Kirk back to Minnesota is just the fear that you draft the wrong guy. But my thing is all roads lead to fired in the NFL. And nobody knows this better than somebody who covers the bears.

If you draft the wrong quarterback, you're fired. If you bring back her cousins and you don't make the playoffs, you're fired. And boy, wouldn't it be funny if they brought Kirk back, drafted a quarterback and we're like, Oh, we're going to develop our future quarterback when seven games get fired. And then the next coaching staff gets your quarterback. So like this, all roads go there if you don't win. So you might as well take your shot at something that could actually get you there. I did want to ask about the rest of the plan. Have you actually talked about the rest of the plan? Have you had any time to think about it?

Because your life has been dominated by Fields versus Caleb Williams. But there's a lot of cap space in Chicago. What else is going to happen this off season? Well, you know, it's funny because the cap space can go pretty quickly, right? I mean,

yes, they got, I think it was about 45 million, but once you add in the rookie class and stuff, it'll be more like $35 million, which is a lot. But when you start with a Jalen Johnson franchise tag or long-term contract extension, that's going to take, you have to prepare for, Jalen Johnson franchise tag or long-term contract extension,

that's going to take, you have to prepare for, I'm assuming franchise tag. I don't think they're going to be able to get a deal done in time. Maybe, but those negotiations have not gone super well this season. And I don't know why all of a sudden they're going to go better, even though after Jalen had an even better season,

like the bears say, all right, screw it. Here's $20 million. I mean, we'll see, but I'm expecting franchise tag. And then this summer they get a deal done, but regardless you have to carve out i think it's 18 or 19

million dollars of pure cap space for that franchise tag so that takes your 35 million dollars in space and cuts it in half and all of a sudden you got 17 million dollars in space and sounds like they're going to cut eddie jackson and save about 12 million so then you build some backup but now you got to replace the safety position. You need another edge rusher to prepare to pair with Montez sweat. You're going to need at least one receiver to pair with DJ more. And you're really going to need a center and probably an interior pass rusher as well. Like they have some big needs on this roster.

And Ryan poles has this approach to free agency every year where he's going to go after some of the big fish, but he's going to set a price limit and say, listen, I'm not going to spend, I'm not going to give you more than this. That's but he's going to set a price limit and say, listen, I'm not going to spend, I'm not going to give you more than this. That's not how he negotiates it. But in this head,

we're not going to spend more than this on Chris Jones of the chiefs. If he hits the open market or Josh Allen of the Jaguars, if he hits the open market, they'll, they'll pursue them and they'll, they'll have a number in their head. And if that gets too high, they'll walk.

And they did it last season with Draymond Jones and Zach Allen and Mike McGlinchey and a number of other guys, but still signed a Tremaine Edmonds to a big contract because that number came within their range. So I think they're going to go after a couple of big defensive linemen in particular. And if the market plays out where they stay in a reasonable price cap, then they'll sign them.

I think they'll sign a center as well and probably go after a receiver of some kind and then go in the draft. And they're still in a pretty good position to feel like best player available with the ninth overall pick, whether that's an edge rusher, whether that's an offensive tackle, whether that's Brock Bowers as a tight end. I mean, I think they have the flexibility where it's like you could consider any of those guys. I think first priority would be trading down though and getting, trying to recoup maybe a second round pick that they traded away in the Montez sweat deal, but trying to get more draft assets. If you're staying at one and getting

Caleb, everything else is kind of gravy at that point. Just keep getting more young players. And whether you're drafting somebody at nine or you trade down to, you know, 15 or 20, and you're still going to get a first round caliber guy. I don't need, I don't think you need to get two top 10 talents in this draft.

It's more about getting three or four good players than getting, you know, one or two great players to pair with, with Caleb Williams. It's where they're trying to get a little bit more breadth here to build out this roster more through the draft. So I think it's about with Caleb Williams. It's where they're trying to get a little bit more breadth here to build out this roster more through the draft. So I think it's about the defensive line.

It's about locking down Jalen Johnson. And then just a couple of little pieces on offense at receiver at center at receiver at center to kind of like put Caleb Williams in a, in as best of a position as possible coming into year one. Yeah. I thought that Montez sweat, there was some debate over whether that was a good trade or not. I guess there always is because trades football but that was to me a big swing moment for them of like okay

you might have something here like as far as your roster might be on its way because you have that player and that player is very hard to find and i thought that he was really underappreciated in washington for how good he really was and then showed that he was really underappreciated in washington for how good he really was and then showed that immediately and demolished the vikings offensive line when he played against them like this is a problem but if you add another gentleman say a very ripped gentleman tall strong crazy arms daniel hunter Hunter has been linked to Chicago. Is that going to happen? If the price is right, I think they would consider it.

I mean, that's the kind of area that I think the Bears are in, where it's like, okay, if you can get that second great edge rusher, by all means, go out and get him. But at the same same time i think there might be some they're not going to go out and spend you know another 25 30 million dollars a year on a when you're paying montez sweat 20 a year and then go out and get another guy at perhaps even higher number like that's a lot i mean as important as head rusher is that's a lot to put into two edge rushers to put you know what 40 million dollars would be like what like a quarter

your cat your total salary cap i mean it's a big it's a big chunk to put into two edge rushers to put, you know, what $40 million would be like, what, like a quarter of your cat, your total salary cap. I mean, it's a big, it's a big chunk to put in at one position. So I feel like they're probably more in like a, they hired the bills defensive line coach as their, as their defensive coordinator. So like somebody like AJ Epinesa from the bills, or there's a couple of different bills, defensive linemen,

like sign one of those guys and then draft someone early to kind of have a more cost effective and get a little bit more rotation there where you don't need, you don't need to like complete studs. But if Montes wet is your stud, then you got some other guys that are also pretty good. You know, you can piece together a pass rush, especially because it feels like they really want an interior guy to be that difference maker and to be able to go out in free agency and try and maybe find that three technique to be the more like make your, your dynamic duo sweat and an interior guy, as opposed to like two great edge rushers. Like they're definitely going to talk to Daniel Hunter and, and bark up that tree a little bit,

but I'm, I'm a little less convinced that they're going to go out and give the big contract. And especially if, you know, if, if Josh Allen gets franchise tag and if Brian Burns ends up getting tagged or whatever it ends up being,

like if Hunter is number one edge rusher out there like i don't know like they went after jervon hargrave last offseason and said all right here's our price limit uh okay 49ers paid more is all yours and i think that's how it'll be with hunter they'll talk to him free agency will start and they'll be like oh bears are having discussions with daniel hunter and we're like wow they're gonna do it and then sign somewhere else for more than the bears wanted and they go to you know plan b and plan c and that's the approach ryan poles just likes to take it that's part of why he traded for montez sweat i think it's the same thing as chase claypool where it's like okay i'm not sure that i can get a top flight edge rusher in free agency this year so i'm gonna make sure that i get one

at the trade deadline not because i need to boost my team right now but as an as an advance on free agency to give me a player that i feel a lot more comfortable with than guys who free agency who tend to have a much lower hit rate. Let me tell you what Vikings fans don't want the bears to do. That would be to sign to Neil Hunter cap cap space be darn. We have watched this man sack the heck out of quarterbacks so consistently and so excellently over the years. That is not what you want your division rival to have. And one thing I would say about that is I understand the shrewdness and every general manager has to be an economics major and understand prices and players and everything else. I also think of San Francisco and a team like that, where sometimes it's just about the number

of great players you have that determines whether you get there. Not AJ Epinesa, fine human being, I'm sure. That doesn't get you to the Super Bowl, right? Like, Daniil Hunter is a player that helps you get to the Super Bowl. But if you said, like, oh, you can cobble together this kind of average and that kind of average. And I think that that might be true in maybe baseball, where if you got a few good players, but if you got a one through nine or a really good bullpen and so forth football, I think there's a lot of average players and it's really who's got more greatness on their team. So if I was them, I'd be thinking, especially with Caleb Williams, rookie contract, how much greatness can I bring in here? Cause that's how we're going to battle against the Dallas, the Philly, the 49ers, and so forth.

But who am I to help Ryan Poles? By the way, I went to community college in the same town as Ryan Poles is from, Canandaigua, New York. How about that? Well, I'll say this. The reason I think they're not going to go at the big splash, per se, is just because it is year one of Caleb Williams. If you mention the 49ers, that's a team that's like – like the big splash per se is just because it is year one of Caleb Williams, right?

Like the 49ers, right? Like that's a team that's like, I know like Brock pretty young. And so it's not a great comparison, but it's like, that's a team that's like, all right,

we're going to go get Hargrave and chase young because like, we're trying to hit the Superbowl window right now. And like, sure. Caleb Williams can be good quickly for the bears, but like 2024 is not the Superbowl window. I mean, maybe they could be a playoff team. If Caleb is really good.

I mean, TJ Stroud, et cetera, et cetera. Like sure. But like, this is not the, all right guys, let's load up and go all in to get the guy now. But at the same point, Daniel Hunter is not a one-year type of investment. You're signing him and you're hoping he's great for four or five years in your defense. And so get him now and let him be here as to help Caleb along the way. I certainly think there's a strong argument there,

but I also feel like, okay, you don't need to go crazy just yet. Like let's, let's fill some holes here. Let's make sure that we've got a good stable roster for the quarterback to succeed in. And then we can go make the splashes next off season or whenever it's going

to be when, you know, when Caleb Williams's contract is still, still going to be cheap for the next four years. So you don't have to make the big splashes all right away. Cause if you, if they do this, your podcast is going to do great numbers and you're going to talk about for the next four years so you don't have to make the big splashes all right away because if you if they do this your podcast is going to do great numbers you're going to talk about how great it is and how aj epinesa stinks and this is the right move i know that's what's going to happen um let me ask you one last question it's been great i always love having

you on the show always good conversations last thing 2026 who wins and i know that you like i'm not a predictions guy so we got to make you do one who wins the nfc north in 2026 the green bay packers i mean it's like i i not that i i'm not like all in on jordan love as like for sure as good as aaron rogers level but like i think a lot of that is matt lafleur but matt lafleur to go anywhere. And like, I think it'll be like Jordan Love will have to be paid by 2026, but it'll be still at the very beginning of when he got paid. And so like, yes, he's going to eat another salary cap, but like year one of that quarterback contract, you usually have a lower cap hit number.

So like, that'll be the first year he's still on the cap, on the cap hit side, relatively cheap. So they'll still be on the tail end of all the young players that they've still been building up. Like I think until, until proven otherwise, I think green Bay is still the biggest threat to me in the long term. I mean, I know Detroit's really good right now. And I'm, I'm,

I'm a little bit skeptical of like the long-term sustainability of that. Whereas like the Packers are young and ascending. And I think Matt LaFleur is a really, really good coach. And that however good Jordan love is like Matt LaFleur is squeezing everything out of that and can keep doing that for the short term. So, I mean, as much as I would want to say, oh, Caleb Williams and the Bears, like maybe probably, but I'm scarred enough on quarterbacks that like,

my expectation is like Caleb Williams won't be a bust, but he's not going to be Patrick Mahomes. Like that's probably what's going to happen is he'll be good, but not elite. And so where does that give the Bears in 2026? I don't know. Probably not winning the division, but in the playoff conversation, I'm not allowed to get my expectations that high for a quarterback. I have to protect myself first and foremost.

All I would say is if you go back and look at the New Orleans Saints and their history or the Buffalo Bills, a quarterback, one guy can change it all, which is why I keep arguing for the Vikings to draft a quarterback. Yeah, I think one thing about paying quarterbacks is if you pay your quarterback, you better have a bunch of young players around him on rookie contracts, which Green Bay does, unfortunately, for everybody else in the division. So Locked lockdown bears podcast. I think that Vikings fans should still listen to it, see what's going on there, but they're usually only curious about the Packers. Maybe that'll change this off season, but you are one of my favorite people to talk to Lauren.

Thanks so much for your time, man. And we'll definitely do it again soon. And we'll have answers also soon about these things that we've kicked around. So I really appreciate the time, man. Hey, thanks for having me at some point you need to get my my copy of football as a numbers game signed but you know we'll get there at some point i would love to do that for you let's do it all

right thanks everybody