Purple Insider - a Minnesota Vikings and NFL podcast - Bears trade out of the No. 1 pick and Vikings cut Cam Dantzler

Episode Date: March 11, 2023

Matthew Coller and Jonathan Harrison run down a wild day in the NFL, from the Vikings surprisingly cutting Cam Dantzler to the Bears trading the No. 1 draft pick to the Carolina Panthers to the Packers acknowledging they want Aaron Rodgers gone... plus, what's the next move for the Vikings and how might it impact Kirk Cousins? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Purple Insider. Matthew Collar along with Jonathan Harrison here. And we had to pull it out, a special night's edition of Hot Routes. We've got some questions to throw out there, but of course we want your comments as well in the comments section. And we'll throw those on the screen and read those throughout the show but so much happened today even after my live stream earlier where we broke down the release of adam thielen we've got cam dantzler being let go the bears making a trade how about the president of the packers just saying it just reporting it you might as well just saying it, just reporting it. You might as well just say it.

And then we still are allowed at this moment to speculate about what comes next because the Vikings have not yet created quite enough cap space to get cap compliance. And there are rumors of other things going on potentially in the next coming days. So why don't we jump right into this thing, Jonathan, and we will try to cover all of today's news and how it impacts the Minnesota Vikings. I'm working on an article right now about how this could be kind of the day

that we go back to where the NFC North entirely changed. This date dates March 10th, 2023. Because of that trade, we could go back. But not only that, because Adam Thielen moves on and that marks an end of an era of the Vikings having basically the best wide receiver duo in the NFL for many years. So let's start though with that Bears trade and we'll get into Cam Dantzler in just a minute but number one pick goes to the carolina panthers for dj moore number nine number 61 a first rounder from next year a second rounder from 2025 uh jonathan did the bears win this trade and what does that mean for the chicago bears i think they absolutely won the trade because not only did they only drop down eight spots, they didn't have to drop down any further into the teens. They're

literally right on the edge of that. So they're still going to get a top 10 player, but they also got a really top end wide receiver who's put up some pretty good numbers with not a great quarterback situation over the past four years in Carolina and an awful head coaching situation in Carolina over the last couple years, and he's still putting up incredible numbers. And this is a guy who's essentially been screaming out, put me on a good team and I'll show you what I can do. And he's on a team that clearly trusts Justin Fields and their quarterback and wants to believe in them with what they just did with this draft

or with this trade. So yeah, this is, I believe that the bears just did win this trade by getting DJ more and then only dropping down eight spots. You also get another second round pick this year, which they only had one and it was later in the first round. This one's a little bit, or in the second round, this one's a little bit later, but still another second round pick to add talent. And then they get a first round pick next year, which is most likely going to be a high pick because of the rest of the roster in Carolina. It's not that great, but it still might compete because it's the NFC South and it's an awful division.

But it's still probably going to be a high pick. And you get another second round pick in the following year to either to probably use as trade compensation at some point here. So, yeah, I think they won this trade, and I think with what they just did tonight or today, they might have jumped their rebuild process up a year because we already knew they went into this offseason with, what, $100 million in cap space,

obviously something that's going to get eaten up by the DJ Moore trade and acquisition. But they're now able to go out and show free agents. Yeah, we're not bleeping around here. We're for real with what we're going to do and try and compete this year. And look at the rest of the division. It's kind of weak now. The Vikings are letting people go. Aaron Rodgers is gone. We don't know what the Packers are going to be. They're probably not going to be as good as they were last year, and last year wasn't good enough. The Lions may look like they can compete, but yeah, they're in a division that the Bears could easily win this year and get into the playoffs,

so they'll have plenty of ammunition to go out there and show free agents, look, we're a team on the rise. We need a couple more pieces, and we've got the money to give it to you, so come here and play for us. Right. They could completely overhaul their roster and look a thousand percent different. Also, I'd like to point out a few things just that the Bears have done really well here with Ryan Poles. Number one is they lost in week 17 and they played, they played Nathan Peterman. And when Nathan Peterman was playing a little too well, they put in Tim Boyle. And you know what?

I was there in the stadium and it was, it was, as Joe Buck said, a disgusting act. It was a disgusting act of football. It was the worst football that I've ever seen in my entire life, what the Chicago Bears did that day. And you know what? No one will ever care. They'll never remember it. And there's the Houston Texans with Lovie Smith waving a middle finger

and not letting them get the number one pick. That's another day that kind of goes in for me for the Chicago bears as they make this trade. So they were brilliant in doing that. Uh, Justin Fields has a rip injury. We don't know as long as he doesn't play and accidentally win. Uh, so that was brilliant. Here's another thing. They gave themselves an opportunity to find out how good Justin Fields is. Because if he can't throw to DJ Moore, Chase Claypool, and Darnell Mooney, three very good wide receivers, and they could draft a tight end too. They could draft whatever the hell they want with all the draft capital that they have. But they gave him three legitimate wide receivers here.

I guarantee you in free agency, they're going to stack the offensive line more to give him a better line. And if he struggles and they win six games and it's not good throwing the football and the running isn't enough, they have a draft pick for next year that they can use, which Carolina may not win a lot of games. I mean, Carolina is trading this pick and whether it's Stroud or Bryce Young, I think it's probably going to be Bryce Young. Usually the guy who's number one is number one from the time we kind of know going into draft season. That doesn't often change for the top quarterback, but maybe this is a year where we're surprised.

I still think it's probably Bryce Young, but is Bryce Young going to win 10 games for Carolina? Probably not. And if he doesn't, then the Chicago Bears are getting a fairly high draft pick. And if Justin Fields isn't good, their draft pick is going to be high as well next year. What can you do with that? You can get yourself a quarterback. So they have given the opportunity for Fields to find out, but also have not sacrificed a future chance to draft a quarterback next year. And what is a class that's supposed to have particularly Caleb Williams, but a couple

of very good draft picks. And if whoever Carolina drafts is really bad, you might draft in the top three or four and be right there. And if you like Justin Fields, then you can get a defensive player. Then you can get another receiver. Then you can get a defensive player then you can get another receiver then you can get a franchise left tackle I mean they have just orchestrated themselves into a phenomenal position here there's no guarantees but when we're all playing this sort of chess game of the offseason Ryan Poles just dominated I think and I saw a few people say I don't know if they got enough back

and I'm not sure you're maybe factoring how good DJ Moore is. And you mentioned that he has had some pretty wonky quarterback situations, 3,000-yard seasons, last year approached 900 yards, and he's 26. They got him in the middle of his prime. He can be good for five to seven more years in the NFL through the whole rebuild that they're going to have to set themselves up. So I think what the Chicago Bears did, now you mentioned potentially winning the division and with all the free agent money, I don't think that's crazy that they can chase the division.

We know Detroit is going to be better. And I agree with Alex in the comments that Detroit still should be considered as the favorite because they had a year to come together and gel and had that slow start, but then improved and improved. They kept their offensive coordinator. Like they're running it back with a lot of the same players. They've got some continuity there, but this is the reason in part why the Vegas odds do not love the Vikings for their situation. So I was going to ask also, just as a follow-up, who do you think the Panthers will take number one? Because I still think it's just going to be Bryce Young, but do you think that it

could be Anthony Richardson because of his combine and his high ceiling or CJ Stroud also the combine, but his national championship game, or I'm sorry, the five, whatever they call it, the final four against Georgia, they lost, but he played amazing. That whole thing. I think that all of those picks make a lot of sense. I still think it's going to be young, but what is your opinion on that? Yeah, I think we talked about it a couple of weeks ago and where we kind of ranked the quarterbacks going into the combine and then coming out of it. I still think like you, it's Bryce Young. He's been there for a reason. He's shown that at the highest level of college football, he can do it week in and week out. And yes, the frame is small and leads you to a lot of concern.

But I don't think Frank Reich wants to mess around with trying to develop or kind of bring back another quarterback for a second time in a row. He staked his Indianapolis career on kind of rehabbing Carson Wentz and then failed and he lost his job. I don't think he wants to do that. I think he wants to take the sure thing. The one guy he knows has been successful in college football. I could go CJ Stroud as well because he's shown absolutely incredible accuracy as a quarterback of Ohio State. But the guy who's done it for what, three years at Alabama, the toughest environment you can do it in college football, in the toughest conference in college football, and he did it for what three years at Alabama the toughest environment you can do it in college football in the toughest conference in college football and he did it successfully for three

years I think he's gonna go I think he's gonna make the easy decision don't overthink this just take the guy who's been there who's been hailed as the number one guy and go with Bryce Young yeah I could see a former quarterback really liking CJ Stroud because he's just got so many great technical elements to his game. And you know, if you're a quarterback, you're going to see those pretty clearly. And Frank Reich was, I think he was the quarterback coach for even Peyton Manning. So the pocket quarterback, Andrew Luck was a, he could run and was a good runner, but much more of a stand in the pocket type throw. And I think that CJ Stroud is that way. But also if you watch

football, you see playmakers making plays and how valuable that is. I think if you take either one of those two guys, your odds are pretty much the same. And if you take Anthony Richardson, your odds of him being great are as equal as your odds of him being terrible. And then the same thing goes for Will Levis, who just doesn't seem to be quite in the same conversation as those other guys. But I think as of right now, it could be any of them. And then there was even a report that was thrown out there that Carolina could try to trade back to number two if the Texans really want someone. And that would be really funny because that's just like the movie Draft Day, essentially, and try to recoup some of their draft capital. I don't know

what's going to happen from here, but I think that this makes a lot of sense for both teams. I don't think either. I saw Felice was trending on Twitter. I don't think that either team fleece the other one. Carolina is going to have the quarterback they've been looking for. Chicago gets to find out about fields and stack their team. And I think as far as timeline goes, it makes Chicago next year, they have expectations. And within the next two years, that's when you should be talking about being a really legitimate contender. I just think that the strategy that was deployed by Ryan Poles is kind of the stuff we've been talking about is the right football game theory, off-season football

game theory over the last few years of how you take it all apart and build it back up. Also, something we've been saying for a long time, when you talk about tanking, you talk about rebuilding, what is the one thing

we always come back to? It doesn't take forever. And wow, it does not take forever. One really terrible year, and then you make this trade and you get that cap space and you've got an opportunity to be instantly right back in the mix if you're Chicago. So that life just got a little bit harder for the Vikings, I think, in the future.

And if we treat this like a horse race of rebuilds because the Vikings, you know, kind of have this competitive rebuild. So their horse didn't ever drop back too far, even if they make some other moves here, which we'll talk about. But Detroit kind of shot up to the front. And today, here comes Chicago kind of on their side. And the Vikings are still floating in the middle. And we're not really sure where they're going to go, which is what we should talk about

next, Jonathan, which is Adam Thielen's gone. And the Vikings also released Cam Dantzler. Why don't we just start out with that before I kind of have a question for you about that? Were you surprised that they released Cam Dantzler? I mean, a little because he still had another, he still had another year left, but with, with the moves that this organization is making, this front office is making, it doesn't surprise me that they gave him a year they realized they didn't like what they were seeing I mean they were starting Duke Shelley they were starting pretty much everybody under the sun over Cam Dantzler near the end of the season and it's not surprising that they moved on considering they need the cap space and they

cleared what two million in cap space by releasing him they realized that if he couldn't work under Mike Zimmer who was kind of the defensive back savant, and they weren't going to get anything out of him, just move on, cut your losses and, and start anew. Yeah. I think that I was only surprised because he still has a year under contract. And, you know, if we go back to the Mike Hughes situation, I never really understood that. I think they were mad at him. I mean, like he got, and look, Cam Dantzler's had the same problem that even though Mike Hughes injuries were more significant,

Cam Dantzler was banged up pretty much his entire time here. I think what, maybe 2021, he wasn't hurt as much because he wasn't playing as much and Bashad Breeland was ahead of him. But in 2020 and last year, he had a ton of injuries. And this is when people talk about Bryce Young or players and their frames and their build. It was a big discussion when he came out. Look at his frame.

Is he going to be able to stay healthy? There's a reason why we always talk like that, because it happens that those players that are a little more slender do get banged up quite a bit. And there's also luck involved and things like that. But I really think that he never quite connected to what they needed him to understand. And what I mean is offenses, how they work, route combinations, where your help is. There is so much to read and react. And this is the trope has long gone away about dumb football players because we've gotten so much more information publicly about what football players need to know in order to

be good at football. The amount of information that has to be gathered, learned, processed and applied is out of this universe. Most of us would completely fail if we took football class, just even understanding how it all works. Most of us would fail, including myself we took football class, just even understanding how it all works. Most of us would fail, including myself. And this is like all I do. But even sometimes when I read about schemes and things like that,

I'm like, I can't believe that they can remember all this process, all this, and then apply it at outrageous speeds. So with respect to how difficult that is, that I think was the shortcoming of Cam Dantzler. There were just too many coverage busts and he made some plays on the ball. He had a great game in London against New Orleans and we thought maybe he was turning a corner. But every time we would talk to Ed Donatel, who is a defensive back guy, too, he would be very much like, yeah, you know, the quarterback group as a whole is doing OK. Like, OK, you don't want to answer any questions about him but you ask about Patrick Peterson

be like best guy ever love him it's amazing you know so okay you know we kind of got the picture that they didn't really love how Cam Dantzler was understanding their defense which we could have just blamed on Ed Donatel like we did with everyone else if it hadn't been for Mike Zimmer and this was always a we went back to Mike Zimmer had problems one of them was not evaluating players the guy understood how to evaluate players and he was not wrong about Cam Dantzler it's just another Rick Spielman draft pick that didn't work out on the defensive side and when you go through the defense and all their draft picks since 2015, J-Ron Curse is the best.

He plays for another team. Cam Bynum started last year, but he might not, probably won't start this year. Yeah, I mean, I think that there was kind of, you know, that's one of the reasons they're in the position they're in now is there was just so many bad and missed draft picks. A lot of them coming in the secondary a lot of mid-round picks spent on pass rushers that ended up failing and uh yeah i mean he just ends up out i'm not shocked if a guy can't stay healthy and can't figure out the defense that's pretty much it for cam danzler it's also a great lesson by the way for people who like the pff numbers and

next gen analytics. One thing I've always warned against, and this goes for kind of Duke Shelley last year, is those numbers are always very small samples for when guys are targeted and how many pass breakups they have quarterback rating against. Because some of those numbers suggested that Cam Dantzler was a great player in 2021, but the sample was very, very small and it turned out to not be sustainable. So anytime we look at those, if we're talking a one year, how someone played, just, just sort of buyer beware when it comes to that.

Let me answer a couple of questions here. Jonathan from Sean is Pat P coming back, Patrick Peterson. I don't know because he kind of continues to say that he wants to. And I understand why I think his family enjoyed Minnesota and clearly players from the NFL PA survey love this place and, and that work environment. Yeah. And getting along with Kevin O'Connell,

I think would matter a lot to Patrick Peterson at the same time. It's just, if you're going to let all the other older guys go, and we'll talk about some of the others that are still around, but if you're going to let everybody else go, there really isn't any reason to bring in someone in their thirties. Even if I have the utmost respect for Patrick Peterson and would love to be around him another year, he was our, he was our Corey Stringer award, media good guy of the year. He was great to deal with, but I don't know if it's a perfect fit for them with where they're at.

I also wanted to answer this one. Didn't Dantzler have kind of an attitude problem in 2021 camp? I think he was kind of unprepared for what Zimmer was going to ask him to do. And after he was there in 2020, there was no reason for that because he should have really known the defense. And that's why Bashad Breland ended up as the starter was because Dantzler was not really ready to go in 2021. And I mean, that's just really not acceptable. So I don't know if it was specifically an attitude issue as in wouldn't take the coaching, didn't like the coaches. That probably is better known behind the scenes.

I just think that he wasn't grasping it the way that they needed him to grasp. And cornerback is a much more complicated position these days than maybe it used to be. I remember Rick Spielman saying something about how you could pick corners and intelligence wasn't as important as some other positions. That might've been true like 20 years ago, just go out and play man against that guy, you and him, and that's it. That is not true now. I mean, you really need to understand all the ins and outs of your defense. And I just think that that was probably Cam Dantzler's issue along with health

and they would rather move on and just let it, let it be their guys. And by the way, who are their guys? Because when you look at the Duke Shelly is a free agent. And so when you look at their cornerback room right now, there's four guys, two of them have essentially never played. So it's Andrew Booth Jr. who is still out and will not be back till training camp at best to start from his injury. And a Caleb Evans who had three concussions last year. What are they going to do, Jonathan, with the cornerback position? Because I was penciling in Cam Dantzler as a part of the competition. So now that he's not, what's next if they don't bring back Patrick Peterson? I think that's where they got to focus in free agency,

and that's not going to be fun for a lot of people because it's going to cost a lot of money and probably take up a lot of their what little cap space they'll have this year because they're eating a lot of dead cap with some of these cuts, but they'll also have a ton of cap space next year, which seems like what they're kind of building towards. So looking back at Haley, intern Haley's article from last week, where she talked about free agent cornerbacks and who could fit in. Well, the two, she pointed out James Bradbury and Cameron Sutton, they kind of stick out as the best fits. I mean, Cam Sutton, because he played on the same defense

as Brian Flores this last year. So he knows that defense. Cornerback seems like one of those positions where you don't want to take, especially over the last couple of years, we're realizing you don't want to take a zone coverage guy and move him into a man coverage system because he's really going to struggle. We saw that plenty of times or from plenty of cornerbacks, free agent cornerbacks this last couple of seasons. So I would stick with the guys that have played primarily man coverage. And that's why I would say don't bring back Patrick Peterson, despite what many people want. And just because of the good guy personality, he played zone last year and the times he did play man, he was getting burned. We saw that the very first defensive play of the season when Christian Watson burned him, dropped the pass, but burned him.

We saw it numerous times throughout the season that the speed wasn't there anymore. It doesn't seem like that's a good fit for a man coverage system that Brian Flores is going to institute in Minnesota this year. So you got to go with the guys who are younger and who've played in the system. I would go with Cameron Sutton. He'd be my number one target because he played in Flores' defense last season and he knows what's required of him in that defense. And it just seems like a good fit for what the Vikings need as a number one corner. Yeah, I agree with Jacob

in the comments about bringing Duke Shelley back, that it should make sense. I mean, if you're Duke Shelley, this is the team that gave you I mean, if you're Duke Shelley, this is the team that gave you a shot, put you on the field, you made plays. And it's possible that he projects as a bit of a nickel corner with his aggressiveness. He's kind of good at closing the gap quickly. Maybe they move him inside

and give him a try at that position or just have him his depth. You probably need to paint by numbers here. You probably need to sign a guy who's a veteran but not a really old veteran because you're trying to look for multiple year players like last year when they signed Harrison Phillips that made a lot of sense to me much more than someone like Jordan Hicks because it was going to be a multi-year thing he was 26 he can be here for a long time and that that's the type of signings they should be looking for is guys who

can be here over multiple years with Brian Flores. And then you also have to draft one. I don't know if it's in the first round because now they also need a wide receiver. They might also be getting rid of Zedaria Smith and need a pass rusher. They also might not have Delvin Tomlinson come back and they need a defensive tackle, which I would really advise because there's a few of them that project is potentially really good players, but they need about four different positions in the first round and they have one draft pick and no way to get more first round draft picks. So yeah, I don't know which one of those goes to the cornerback position. They might take a few shots later in the draft but i think that it's taking swings looking for corners that maybe through their first contracts didn't get a lot of chances or like you said were used in different types of systems but might have a

better skill set this is where brian flores can be very very valuable because his background exists in player evaluation so you're kind of leaning on him to say find us some dudes to play cornerback because as of this moment they basically don't have anyone and they really can't count on what they're going to get from andrew bruce jr and from a caleb evans even though both of them showed flashes and could be great players we just don't know that yet so i think they need to um you know kind of do a lot more there to bring in two, three guys is, is four is four too many. Probably not the other two guys, take going and Kalen Barnes. I mean, these are not expected guys to even make the roster. So a lot of work there to be done after

getting rid of a cam Dantzler, but I guess not shocked. And I also won't be shocked either. If cam Dantzler has a stretch with some other team, that's good. And then we start seeing the tweets of like, why are the Vikings let this guy go? Because he kind of did that with the Vikings where it would be, oh my gosh, he has this really good game or really couple of good games. Couldn't stay healthy. Couldn't keep it all together. So that's why they ultimately move on. Next thing I have for you is Mark Murphy, president of the Packers. I mean, I'm up for honesty. I am for honesty.

He told the local TV station basically that the Packers want Aaron Rodgers to be traded, which is remarkable. Normally, you don't really get that out of people in executive positions, but he just kind of came out and said it. I don't know if he misspoke or what, but he made it clear that the outcome they want is Aaron Rodgers being traded. So here's my question for you, Jonathan, are the Packers going to regret being happy about Rodgers being gone or are the jets going to regret trading for him if they do? Or is this like both have regrets or neither have regrets? Like who ends up, everybody's happy right now if he goes to the Jets.

They're thrilled. They think they're going to win the Super Bowl. The Packers are thrilled. They get out from under all of his nonsense. But who ends up regretting this whole thing? Can it be both? I'm going to go with both. Going back to mark

murphy's comments you don't say that kind of thing without my my thinking is you don't say that kind of thing without already having a trade package agreed to otherwise you're you're hurting your own leverage and you're just gonna have to take a worse deal so it seems like there's and with allowing aaron rogers to speak to the Jets, there's definitely something agreed there. And we're just waiting on the, on the Jets and Rogers to agree to something, to agree to a contract re reworking, because obviously salary cap wise, it really wouldn't fit right now. So they'd have to rework some things. And he said, I think he said in the past that he'd be open to doing that to fit in with the new team. So it seems like there's something, there's clearly something there ready to go. It's just, they're waiting for

the final touches on a contract to be worked out. So I don't, I love the honesty, but it also just points out the ever, the, the growing clarity that this trade is going to happen. It's literally probably just days, maybe even hours away at this point as for who regrets it more I want to say both just for the chaos factor because I think the Green Bay Packers will regret relying on Jordan Love I mean there's no way there's no way that they can get three Hall of Fame quarterbacks or good quarterbacks in a row that's just that I know the football gods are weird sometimes but come come on, that that'd be, that'd be irresponsible of them to, to gift that to happen in essentially the same format

that had happened last time with Aaron Rogers, uh, taking over for Brett Favre. Uh, and I don't think that he's going to be as, I don't think Aaron Rogers is going to be as successful in New York as they think. Yes, they have a stack roster around him, but we saw this year that there's just, there's a lot missing. There's something missing now. Clearly the age is getting to him. He's an older quarterback. We know that time comes for everybody and it came for Tom Brady this year. It looked like it came for Aaron Rodgers this year. And I don't know, especially with all the pressure that will be piled on him, being the New York Jets quarterback, being that he's there, it's super bowl or bust with that roster with what they're giving up to bring

him in it's super bowl or bust. And if they don't get a super bowl, there's a lot of regrets there because they just gave up a hall to get him. And now they are kind of SOL. Now that they're relying on a 38 year old quarterback to win him a super bowl this year. And they still got Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrow and Josh Allen all in their conference. Good luck.

Yeah, I mean, I think that that is a major part of it when you set the expectations once you trade for Aaron Rodgers is that the competition is still really, really stiff, even just in the AFC East, that there's going to be, you know, getting to win the division is really, really tough with the Bills and with Josh Allen. I think that Rodgers being good in New York is probably more likely than the Packers being happy after him. And that doesn't mean that he should stay and that it would be good because they just

don't have the resources to make that team any better than it was last year. So it would most likely just be a repeat unless some of their young players, the receivers became vastly better than they were last season because they don't have a ton of cap space to be able to go out to sign free agents. Clearly receiver free agents don't want to come play with Aaron Rodgers. It doesn't seem like a very pleasant experience. But I, you know, so I guess if we're talking about who's going to regret it, the jets to me are less likely to regret it because even if it blows up in your face, you went for it. You didn't stick with Zach Wilson, like you did with Sam Darnold and just

die there with that and struggle and waste good teams or whatever you went for it you gave it a shot even with the Denver Broncos so right now the Denver Broncos completely regret trading for Russell Wilson it is a nightmare disaster and yet you still can't really say that that was a bad decision you traded for one of the best quarterbacks ever and it hasn't worked out and maybe it still will at some point I don't think so but maybe it will will at some point. I don't think so, but maybe it will. And with Rogers, if you look at Tom Brady, which I think we can compare, one of the few people in the world we can compare, Tom Brady had a down year in New England before he went to Tampa Bay and then popped back up because the circumstance was so much better

where he had Mike Evans and all the receivers and the offensive line and Chris Godwin. I mean, just this is the same kind of thing with New York where you're talking about Garrett Wilson is a top notch wide receiver. The offensive line for the Packers really dropped off last year and I think it impacted him quite a bit. So I think the Jets are less likely to regret this if Jordan Love is bad then they're going to have wasted a first round pick that could have gone on a wide receiver and they kind of passive aggressively seem to do everything they could not to help Aaron Rodgers for a time with getting wide receivers for him and I think that they could maybe end up regretting not making a

couple of more moves there, drafting someone when Roger still had so much left in the tank and not finding out if Matt LaFleur was going to take him to another level first. Maybe, maybe that's how it goes. But both is a reasonable answer because if he goes there and he's just, you know, doing ayahuasca or whatever. And I mean, imagine the number of things available to him in New York City that he could get his hands on and give a try to. I mean, it could he might just be done being good at football. That's also very possible. But, you know, I think that your read on this situation is very right, that you don't talk this way unless you are on probably the one yard line of finishing up a trade.

Now, I have another news item to address with you, Jonathan. And this actually did take me a little bit by surprise. I guess I shouldn't have been stunned, but a little bit. On the same day that Adam Phelan exits stage left of Minnesota, the Vikings attended a workout for one Odell Beckham Jr. Your thoughts, were you surprised that they were there at an Odell Beckham workout? I guess I'm not surprised because he's a little bit younger. He's played with Kevin O'Connell before.

He's played for Kevin O'Connell's offenses before. So there's clearly the experience there. Justin Jefferson has been pretty vocal in trying to court him to come to Minnesota because he views him in a mentor role because they both went to LSU. They're both really good wide receivers. I'm not surprised. The timing's a little off, but you can't really do anything about that when Odell Beckham Jr. is holding his private workout today. But I mean, now that they're getting, now that they need a wide receiver too, they have to be doing their due diligence. They would be, it would be remiss of them to not

try and go look at this guy and see what, see what's there. If there's something left in the tank there after coming off an ACL injury and missing an entire season, can you get him on the cheap? Get him on a, on a, a one year, two year deal toyear deal to see if there's anything left in the tank. I don't think that's likely because everything that we've heard in the whole buildup of Odell Beckham Jr. signing with teams that he wants, what, a two, three-year deal? He wants some assurances for the future. And just, I don't know that teams are going to want to give that for a guy who's had recent injury problems and has had a couple down years and yes, succeeded in the Rams for with eight games in LA, but there's the whole, he missed all of last season due to an injury that has to concern

some teams. So yeah, I'm not surprised that they went to look to see if there's something there to see if, you know, talking to his agent to see if they're, if they can get some kind of deal, cause they're not going to have a lot of cap space. They don't want to give, they don't want to rely on him too much in the future. See if they can get them for a year or two. Yeah. It's hard to make it work with what they're doing because you need the number two wide receiver to go along with Justin Jefferson and Jefferson and Odell Beckham know each other quite well and are good friends from my understanding. And he's kind of mentored Jefferson a little bit, which you don't want too

much of considering some of Odell's issues in the past. But I mean, he is a really, really good wide receiver still. And he showed that in Los Angeles. And the funny thing is about tearing his ACL is that sometimes we've seen players who look like they're starting to be washed, get a year away and get fully healthy for the first time, maybe in their adult lives and then come back and play really well. Uh, we have definitely seen that in the past. I mean, I think even Adrian Peterson, when he missed 2014, um, it came back in 2015 and it played really, really well. I don't want to get into why he missed 2014, but he had the jump still later into his twenties and early

thirties. But that was after missing a whole year. I remember this happened with Richie incognito as well. Sometimes that can be the case, but if you're just going to sign him to a one-year contract, okay, next year they are trying to win. They're not trying to tank, but you're taking up a position that maybe is Jalen Naylor or someone that you're going to draft or a younger player you're going to sign. Odell Beckham would be really, really good with Justin Jefferson. If he's even 80% of the version of his peak, that would be a fantastic number two wide receiver for the Vikings. But if you're just doing it for next year, I think I'd rather see who else you can

develop for the future to be in that role. But if he was going to sign a three-year deal, and this is always the problem, right? You're going to sign him to a three-year deal. Are you going to keep him happy for three years? Because he seems to be a guy that doesn't stay happy with his circumstances for very long. Is he going to be okay for the next couple of years? Well, you kind of get through this retooling of your roster and this little bit of purgatory that you might have to live in. Is he going to be all right with that? If he signs a multi-year deal,

I have a tough time making this whole thing work exactly. But I also think that they won't be tanking and they're going to try to win and they're going to want to try to win the division. And you can live in both worlds with a foot in both buckets of rebuilding and trying to compete for the division. So as long as you're not hurting yourself in a long-term capacity, that it's not the worst idea I've ever heard. I think, you know, last year I would have preferred it more as they were kind of going for it and getting TJ Hawkinson. But man, if you can give a quarterback and we're still not a hundred percent sure who it's going to be, but if you can give whoever your quarterback is, uh, Justin Jefferson, Odell Beckham,

TJ Hawkinson, KJ Osborne, that is a pretty good and Derrissaw and O'Neal. That's a pretty good start. That's a pretty good start. And if you can keep them longer term and have the next quarterback drop in with those guys as a rookie, now we are cooking. And that's kind of really the goal that I think that they should be reaching out for. Speaking of that, this is just before we get to kind of our last big question. Harrison Smith, there's some buzz about potentially

cutting Harrison Smith and a good question from the comments. If they cut Harrison Smith, would that be the signal that they might move on from Kirk Cousins? And I would say that maybe, I mean, it would be a stronger signal than anything else that's happened so far that they would be really tearing it down and rebuilding it. I think that the biggest signal is that there has been zero reporting, zero buzz on an extension for Kirk Cousins from anybody, from any of the reporters that were at the combine. We came away thinking about what Kweisi Adafoenta said about flexibility versus, you know, certainty that Kirk Cousins wants. It doesn't feel like this thing is really moving anywhere at this moment. That could change by the time people go back and listen to this show, but it just doesn't feel that way.

And the more players you lop off who are important role players or stars or former stars on the team that have been a big part of this, the more you might think that Kirk Cousins would want to say to them, you're not going to sign me. You got rid of one of my top receivers. You got rid of our best defensive players. Maybe you should just send me to team X that needs a quarterback. And I don't think that that's a crazy thought that that could still be in play as we go through the next few days. Yeah, because he, you look at his timeline, his own personal timeline, he's what, 35 going into next season. That's an older quarterback.

We've seen the drop-off that those guys have starting around the 34, 35 age. And he, we know that he wants probably another one last big deal, one last three, four year deal before he's done with his football career, just to get some more money in his bank account. And why would he want to stick around and play on a lame duck contract? If he's at that age, cause going to next season, he's 36. He's not going to get a big contract at 36 years old. He's going to get one, two year deals. He doesn't want that. So if they continue, as you, as you put lopping off these important pieces, and it's quite clear to everybody in, in the organization and outside of it, that it's not going to be a great year. It's not going to be another 13 and four year. It's going to be a tough year. Why would he want

to stick around for that? Because not only is that going to do him harm in just his own timeline, his numbers aren't going to be as good. He's not going to look as great of a, as good of a quarterback as he is. He's, he's going to have to take less money because of the age and because he had a down year, as opposed to getting kind of, kind of taking advantage of the season he just had in the record that his team just had. He wants to take advantage of that now instead of kind of coming off of a bad down season. So yeah, if, if things keep happening like they have been this week, it's, it's almost conceivable that you could see Kirk Cousins asking out, asking for a move. And that'd be a great situation for the Vikings because it gives them the out that they might've wanted because they don't want to move on after going 13 and four they might not want to move on after going 13 and four the ownership probably doesn't they want to continue uh winning like they have been

and yeah it'll just give them the out that they want that they probably secretly wanted the entire time and it also uh in that scenario it would give the Vikings kind of some plausible deniability of like, well, he wanted out. You know, we just couldn't. And this is the very same thing with Adam Thielen. And you can spin these things any way you want to. I think the Vikings wanted to move on from Adam Thielen. And, oh, well, we're trying to restructure the deal, but we're only going to give you a deal that really works for us. Take it or leave it. And you say, leave it. And we cut you. And then you go, well, you know, just couldn't work it out because he wouldn't

take the restructure. And it can be the same thing. Well, we offered extensions and Washington did this with Kirk years ago. They even tweeted it. I don't know if you remember that they tweeted an offer that they had made her cousin. They tweeted the whole offer and they were like, see, we gave him an offer and he didn't want it so uh you know what makes sense for me for our kirk cousins is the vegas raiders and i know you are a vegas raider enjoyer but there is a rumor that they are trying to trade for mac jones because of the relationship with mac jones and josh mcdaniels but i imagine Bill Belichick saying like, give a seventh overall and you can have them, which they're not going to do. But let's say that doesn't work out. Who's kind of

similar to Mac Jones and gets that comparison is Kirk Cousins. And, uh, you know, maybe that Raiders team isn't really in a position to win right now, but they could sign them to an extension. It would be hilarious if a team went from Derek Carr and thought that wasn't good enough and then brought in Kirk Cousins, the same person. But at the same time, you could see it with Josh McDaniels. He's got to save his butt. I mean, after last year, he's already in a position to do that. Tennessee is another team. We don't know what's going to happen to Ryan Tannehill. It's very uncertain in Atlanta. It doesn't seem like they're in on Lamar Jackson,

but they must have some sort of plan. But teams could be looking now and going, wait, number one, two, and four at the moment are looking like they're going to draft quarterbacks. How are we going to get a quarterback? There are teams out there that might be interested in trading for Kirk Cousins. Not a lot, but enough

to make this conversation interesting. And I think if they do cut Harrison Smith, if they do trade Delvin Cook, he's got to look around and go, come on, man, we'd have no corners. I only have one receiver to throw to. What are we doing here? What am I supposed to do in order to put up numbers that are going to get me know, put up numbers that are going to get me that next contract. And that's an important distinction that you made and is right, that he's got to be thinking, wait, if you take Thielen off this team and tell me it's Jalen Naylor is the number three receiver now, and you're not going to have money to bring in somebody else, or it's a draft pick who might not be ready right away, or might not be good at all based on

what we saw from Laquan Treadwell. I mean could just be saying like I don't want to do this I want to go somewhere else so it's always hard it's extremely hard to put yourself in Kirk Cousins shoes and figure out what he's thinking you never really know he doesn't leak stuff his agent doesn't leak stuff all of his uh extensions have kind of come like a little rumbling, maybe that day, and then all of a sudden they happen. But I don't know which way that that's going to go at all. But I do think that what happens with Harrison Smith, what happens with Z'Darrius Smith, what happens with Delvin Cook,

what happens with Daniil Hunter, all of those things have to impact his thinking. And, I mean, even if you're Adam Thielen, even if it's part of this for Thielen, if he said, you know what? I just don't think we can compete again after last year, after we kind of gave it our all and it didn't work out. How do we know that someone like Kirk Cousins isn't thinking kind of the same thing? Right. Could there be a more awkward fit though for Kirk Cousins than having to go play in Las

Vegas considering his background? Sin City, Kirk! fit though for kirk cousins and having to go play in las vegas considering his background sin city kirk kirk cousins does not seem like a fit for the city of las vegas but you could see neither do i though like you know me and uh you know i'm i not religious like Kirk is. But as far as like not drinking or partying or things like that, I don't I don't do those things. But I love Vegas because it's so interesting of a place. Yeah. And it's so unique from anything. Like there's nothing in Minnesota like it. And there's like a lot of fun places to eat. And there's the mob museum that I went to.

So Kirk could go to museums like me in vegas as everyone does yeah as everyone does the reason why i'm a vegas enjoyer i was born there so it's it's a great place it's a great place to go for like four days but then you just want to leave and you want to get out i don't know that he would be able to last an entire season there uh just from his background so it would be interesting but you as you pointed out you could see the raiders getting desperate with how the top of the draft is now shaking out after the Bears trade today. And it's looking like four, three of the top four teams are going to take a quarterback. None of those guys are going to drop. It seems like, and there'll be stuck with Will Levis

most likely at number seven. Will they want to take that risk considering that he's kind of thought of as the number four guy among those four quarterbacks. And I want to take that risk considering that he's kind of thought of as that number four guy among those four quarterbacks? And I don't know that they'll want to do that considering what they're moving on from and Derek Carr, do they want to take another risk in this guy, in Will Levis?

So yeah, they could get desperate and send something Minnesota's way that they'll just be like, all right, he wants out, we'll take something. This is funny from Adam. He would have to take several rocks out of the jar per day in Vegas. If you know the reference,

you know, the reference. It's a good one. He has a jar full of rocks that represent what every day of his life. And he takes one out each day. That's something you probably shouldn't share. I mean, I know that he told people that,

and everybody's got their weird quirks. Maybe that one should have stayed to himself. You're just setting yourself up there. You really are. But maybe he's taking rocks out of the jar for how much longer he's got to be a Viking after this. I don't know. Last thing, Jonathan, I'm so happy that so many people

have tuned in to watch tonight just such a huge and fun day in the nfl overall we've tried to cover uh most of it i'm sure there's stuff that we missed from teams today and different cuts and things that happened um but is there anything the vikings could do at this point that would actually surprise you i mean we spend our entire lives talking about everything. So we kind of try to think of any scenario. So it doesn't have to be one that we've never thought of before, but just, is there one where you'd be like, oh wow, they actually went there. They actually did that. Uh, besides the one we just talked about in Kirk Cousins getting traded, I think that one

would shock me the most because it just feels like every time it's on the verge of happening, something happens and he gets another extension and he's here for another three years. So that one might shock me. But I think the one right now that would shock me the most is maybe Daniil Hunter getting traded because he's he's obviously the guy who can probably get the most they can get the most from. But also with the pieces they're getting rid of, they're all older. Yes, they would have to sign Daniel Hunter to a big contract, but it just feels like with what they want, with how they want to play defense next year,

it seems like he's a good fit, but they also need better picks in the draft. If I'm pulling up the site correctly, they have the 23rd pick and then they don't pick again until 87. That's a huge gap that they need to fill with the amount of bodies they need to replace. What better way to fill that and get more picks than trade one of your best assets in Daniel Hunter? Yes, it would suck because he's a really good player. He showed that last season that there's still plenty of juice in the tank.

You don't want to get rid of him, but he's your best asset. That would shock me the most because he's the best asset for getting stuff, but also probably your best defensive player left on the roster at this point. Yeah. And that would really mean all in on rebuilding this thing. That's the move that we haven't seen yet. So we have seen this sort of start to become Kweisi Adafoo-Menson, Kevin O'Connell's roster, which I wondered if that would happen or if they would try to run it back again and repeat last year's results. Clearly they're not doing that because they're not restructuring these contracts to try to

keep these players around. So they are thinking about the future in a lot of ways, the not doing a June 1st cut with Adam Thielen, same sort of thing. But how far do you want to push that? around so they are thinking about the future in a lot of ways the not doing a june 1st cut with adam thielen same sort of thing but how far do you want to push that like if you consider it say a spectrum of how rebuildy do you want to kind of slide the meter over to do you want to be and we do this kind of all the time but like do you want to be right now they're in the yellow do you want to be in the orange because that means like zedarius smith goes harrison smith goes or do you want to be in the

red that means you get rid of daniel hunter that means you're like we're bad we're not going to be good it's not going to happen next year is going to be tough and that is what it is but we've got to take a reset season here and there's no other choice and that is easy to say and easy for us to talk about and i think the right way to go but it is probably a very tough discussion inside of that building you're brian florist you just took over this job yeah you're trying to get back as a head coach and you know if you turn around the defense that there's going to be a lot of buzz for you as a proven head coach and then they're're going to tell you, well, look, Zedarius wants to go. And we're going to actually trade to Neil because we have no draft picks.

And hope you've been scouting the rookies, man, because we're going to have to draft some. But we actually don't have a lot of draft picks. So we don't know what we're doing. Yeah, I mean, that's a linebacker. We're not really sure about that guy either. I mean, there's yeah, there's a lot of things there that would be pretty tricky and you could end up Kirk or not with like a six win season. If they don't replace Thielen right away, then there's more attention.

Cause I still think that Thielen drew some attention. And I mean, he had 70 catches. It was not a garbage season by any means. So you had that other option, but if you don't have another option, if you don't sign a Beckham, if you don't replace the center, and then you're talking about maybe playing a rookie there. So, I mean, it could be pretty ugly. It could be, it could be a significantly worse roster than it was last year and a harder schedule by quite a bit. That is, that is very, very possible. But with Hunter, it is, it is a difficult decision. I mean, Jacob brings this up that he's going to be, you know, sorry, he's going to be a 29 years old. And if you're talking about

signing him to a long-term contract extension, then I mean, that's a, that's a risk that goes along with the player's been injured. It's a lot of money and it doesn't help you in the immediate as far as signing him to an extension very much, or if at all, because he already has something like a $13 million cap hit, but trading him away can't really happen right now, like this moment, because that actually hurts them in the salary cap. So that's something that unlikely to happen would have to be a June 1st thing. That one's really wonky. That situation is really uncomfortable. It to be a june 1st thing that one's really wonky that situation is really uncomfortable it might be a mid-summer thing like we're just we're all just hanging out doing nothing on june 17th and all of a sudden they trade daniel hunter like with khalil

mac a few years ago right before the season so so much to be decided still i have ended almost every podcast saying that even though we've had so much happen, but we know who's drafting number one. We know the, how the bears are rebuilding their team. And we know the Vikings are starting this process, this churn of the roster. And it does seem like this is now starting to become Kweisi Adafo-Mensah's roster because the old blood is being moved out and they're going to, you know, bring in new players. So a really, really fun time here,

Jonathan on Friday night. I'm glad that all of you. And if you're in Minnesota, of course you were doing this because it's horrible outside still. So you weren't out partying, you were here watching your YouTube, but thanks so much for everybody. Who's joined all of the emergency podcasts.

We've gotten really great feedback on them. And when anything happens, if it is one 30 in the morning and they trade kirk be right here this is where i'll be jonathan is also a night owl so he'll be there too now if they do it at 6 30 a.m someone's gonna have to call someone's gonna have to call me and wake me up and i'll be like i don't know man what did they get that one you won't want to watch the video of that one that one will be audio only right audio and wake me up and I'll be like, I don't know, man. What did they get? You won't want to watch the video of that one. That one will be audio only.

Right, audio only. So anyway, well, thanks everybody. Keep your eye on this channel though, because there's more to come and we will be here and we will catch you all next time. Thanks so much. Have a good rest of your night. Football.